6.5 Grendel vs 5.56: Don’t Waste The Money
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- On this episode of Ultimate Barrier Testing, we will be comparing the performance of the 5.56 NATO to the 6.5 Grendel on 4 different targets. Each target is worth 25 points (winner takes all), for a grand total of 100 points. Whichever cartridge ends up with the highest score will be the winner. Testing was setup at 50 yards. Thanks for watching!
*These tests are meant for entertainment and educational purposes only. Do not try any of these tests at home!
5.56 NATO: WIN 55 gr FMJ M193
6.5 Grendel: Nemo (PPU) 120 gr FMJ
Just an idea... instead of placing sand in a box, create several boxes 2 inches thick, then fill with sand and then stack them maybe 10 boxes. This way we can see how many inches a bullet will travel in sand.😊
Good idea
Great idea!
Good idea. That would be interesting!
Don't be stealing my idea..... 😕
use cereal boxes
For deer hunting the 6.5 Grendel hands down.
This. I don’t hunt lumber or steel so don’t care about how a round penetrates either.
@@donalddicorcia2433 Surely you’re not hunting deer with a 5.56? Very unethical.
I was agreeing with you. Comprehension problem?
6.5 Grendel shines beyond 500 yards. Plus my 20" T box will shoot at 0.5 MOA @ 100 yards with an AR-15 setup weighting at 9.3lbs with scope and bi pod on. For 6.5 creedmoor I have to step up to AR-10 or go bolt RPR. So 6.5 Grendel is one of the best AR-15 ammo for long range.
@@jimfields9491556/223 is a great varmit round, but not for big game I agree.
Bottom line: The 6.5 Grendel has the same energy at 235 yards that the 5.56 has at the muzzle. “Don’t waste the money”??? Absolutely is worth it if you hunt deer instead of steel,wood, cardboard...
Exactly. This cartridge has a purpose and competing with 5.56 on targets ain’t one of them.
What is the performance at 500 yds MOA?
@@RARufusA better comparison for those of you who don't have both, it's more like comparing 22 magnum vs 22 short, with 223 being the 22 short.
100%
6.5 delivers the meat.
I go with the Grendel for 2 reasons. First, it holds velocity and energy much better at over 50 yds. Second, it fits the AR-15 platform, whereas the 6.5 CM and .308 have to go in an AR-10 platform.
It doesn't though, If you're cherry-picking loads and barrel length then sure you could use those arguments but that goes for any Cartridge. people who invested in 6.5GR are just sour they got had. 5.56mm will always come out on top especially when SHTF (and it will). So, stop wasting your money on the Grendel and invest more into a logical cartridge like 5.56mm.
@@dontbetreadin4777 Matters. Grendel can shoot to 1000 about as well as 556. Both are gonna have worries of going subsonic at about that range. 556 will get punked by any wind at that distance. The real kicker is have you tried spotting your shots that far out with 556? Looks like a rabbit farted on the dirt. Also, this is not taking into consideration how well Grendel does with large game. In those same circles you will have people sneering at you for using 556 and for good reason.
YOu''ll never shoot at 1,000 yards ,Stop with this nonsense @@CthulDude
@@dontbetreadin4777The 6.5 123 gr bullet has a higher B.C. and S.D. than the 5.56 55gr. This gives better down range performance because science.
@@dontbetreadin4777 good follow up. I am in awe.
Main advantage to the Grendel is you can build it in an AR-15 platform, and it's legal to hunt deer with in most states, making it more versatile.
Thanks Elmer Fudd
Here where I live in Missouri we’re pretty relaxed about size, calibers, etc. Our rule is this “If it’s a centerfire cartridge, it’s legal.” So, that means here I can use my 9mm or .17 Hornet or I can go to a big boy like my old .30-06’, their ALL centerfire so they are ALL legal. It’s really weird for us guys here to thing of our fellow hunters in the eastern states being resigned to “Slug-Shotguns”. While I find it to be a very fascinating prospect to harvest a deer with a 12-gauge, 16-gauge, 20-gauge, 28-gauge & even the .410 (I think in totality it’d be a .68 gauge), gauge as I’ve got an ol’ Stevens .410 Bolt Action. I’ve harvested deer w/.357 Revolver, my middle (of 3), son harvested a whitetail w/his 9mm, and I’ve actually taken a Red Fox at 27-yards, open sights, 1-free hand using a Glock 27 9mm. Only Fox I’ve ever taken, as for hunting. (Not including trapping) The only real changes besides the barrel is you need a 6.8 SPC Remington Bolt & 6.8 SPC magazines & you’ve got your 6.5 Grendel!
@@scottsozmtns7534 not Eastern states, but northern Midwestern. Ohio and the like. FL, GA, etc have pretty relaxed laws about what you can hunt with as well. In fact, I think there's only a handful of states where a .223 is no bueno for deer or bigger game and they're all in the Pacific Northwest.
@@Two_Namesif you can hunt it with a bow you can hunt with with 5.56
Arkansas is centerfire as well.
I have found that the 6.5 Grendel round performs really well out of a 20 inch barrel. And it’s much lighter than my 20 inch AR-10 chambered in .308.
Likewise.
Factsssss
it still performs out to 300 meters or so fine out of a 16, better than a 556, anyhow, being as it is not near as velocity dependent. 2o for sure is a nice pep boost, but more important in a 556.
YES
You’re just cutting your own foot off by getting a 6.5 Grendel, the 6.5 family is not in any way comparable to .223.
It is comparable to 6mm BR, 6 prc 6.5 creedmore, 6.5 prc, 6mm ARC,
6.5 Grendel for precision work @400 - 800+ yards for precision work. When the Zombies get closer the 5.56 for laying down the Lead Curtain!
This was a good comparison. From what I understand, 6.5gren was meant to take what 5.56 can do at 300yds, and make it happen at 500yds. My coyote gun is in 6.5 and it is nice for making longer shots more confidently due to BC.
Totally right on the ammo price too... Makes it tough to justify.
6.5 grendel used to be cheap until Biden did his import ban on Russian ammo. I bought it prior to that and it was priced similar to 7.62X39 and 5.45X39 Russian ammo. Now it's pathetic that 5.56 is cheaper than Ak-47 ammo.
As for which ammo is better, I'd take the grendel over the 5.56 any day. It has way more energy and is still supersonic past 1000yrds. At 400yrds the grendel is 1037 ft/lbs while the 5.56 is 693 ft/lbs.
@@copper178 Go away commie
OMG I love Grendel!!! But man i hate paying for it.
6.5 Grendel definitely aint' cheap, but it's legal for hunting deer in my state while 556 isn't. I buy online and it's comparable in price to 308 while being chambered in an AR 15 platform (I only had to buy an upper, not a whole rifle) instead of a bigger platform.
Having said that, 556 sure isn't going away either!
that makes sense as a light, low recoil bolt gun, however as an ar15 5.56 replacement, its just not worth it to me. ar's are for loading up 30's and letting it rip
I like how barrel lengths and ammunition types are totally ignored.
yeah he skips a number of important details in many of his videos.
Great test! The 6.5 G was a lot more appealing when you could get steel for $.20/round.
And that steel ammo would likely have done better in these tests.
@@ravissary79
I agree. I’ve shot a lot of steel 6.5G and it’s funny, It acts a lot like the 7N6 “poison bullet” from the 5.45 AK.
I miss those days...
i bought a tone of it before it disappeared... if you keep an eye out at SGAMMO very seldomly 6.5G comes up on sale for 70-80 cents a round, i snap it up as fast as i can
@@ravissary79 no it wouldn’t. Mild steel jacket has no real effect on penetration.
Grendel should get cool name bonus points. 😎
Not when you call it Grundle like I do, lol
@@Twarganlol
Agreed!
big ol fat brass ass too. much prettier sitting on the bench. not that i sit and admire my collection or anything. who would do that, that's weird.
Owner of Alexander Arms is responsible for the name, just like the Beowulf .50 that is also a ar-15 platform round that also use the x39 case
I believe the point of the 6.5 Grendel , is that it carries more energy at distance and can reach farther than the 5.56. Up to the user if you want to pay for it or not.
A 75 year study shows 90% of combat engagements are inside 100 meters, and 98% inside 300 meters. So unless you are doing DM or sniping, it's not a relevant advantage, and if you are, .308 and 6.5 CM are better.
@@mzmadmike My thoughts were pretty much the same.
If 5.56 isn't capable of the task, why not just go to .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor?
For an upper swap, the .300 BLK makes the most sense.
That opens up the world of suppressed subs & still gives you the option of running an intermediate .30 caliber if you don't care about needing ear pro.
@@pewpewTN The problem with the .300 BLK Subs/standard rounds, is you really need to tune the AR to one of the two. At least for long term reliable use. Can you run both in an upper not tuned specifically to one or the other? Yeah. If it's setup for standard carts, you'll end up overgassed in suppressed modes. And you'll probably be undergassed for regular rounds if you set it up to run well suppressed.
You got to remember the round counts these rifles would be going through. The ability to easily regulate gas, is one of the reasons that piston guns are frequently chosen by many militaries.
@pewpew9193 5.56 is a high velocity 22lr, just for plinking at the range 5.56/223, low recoil deer round 6.5 Grendel. Varmint hunting 223 does good. Less weight with the AR15 vs an AR10 in 308 or creed. I have 5.56, 22lr, 300blk, 458 and 6.5 Grendel, all in the AR platform I can hunt anything I need to, versatile platform all calibers are tools designated for certain tasks, all shine in certain areas. 223 definitely cheaper that's why 6.5 Grendel is my go to for deer
@@mzmadmike Perhaps because 6.5 G is ballistically superior to 5.56 (so flatter shooting increases hit chance in fleeting shots), is harder hitting at any range and allows use of a smaller/shorter/lighter weapon than .308 or 6.5 CM?
Clearly the layer of paint you put on that steel is what prevented the round from penetrating 😂😂😂
That was the issue
The 6.5 Grendel was designed to run in the ar-15 platform. I think it comes down to which one of these would succeed in harvesting medium sized game. The 6.5 Grendel wins this hands down. Great video, thanks!
Many land owners won't let you use this cartridge due to its lack of performance.
@@bliksemdonder5624 by "this" cartridge, I assume you mean 556. I don't know anyone anywhere that would say Grendel is not up to the task of hunting medium sized game.
@@bliksemdonder5624 Then they haven't see the results. I have taken 18 deer with the 6.5 Grendel and I have yet to have a deer go more than 20 yards after being shot with it. Even at distances out to 300 yards. I have taken a few deer with 5.56 in special circumstances, but wouldn't recommend it.
@@fltmed Agree 100%, I have also taken deer out to 300 with the 556 but wouldnt recommend it either thats why I bought my Grendel... The Grendel is basically like hunting deer with a 30-30 Win. in a AR 15 platform just way better long range performance...
The advantage of the grendal over the 308, in a AR platform, is the size of the AR frame - weight... I use the grendel in an AR for hunting and love it. In a bolt gun, Howa puts the 6.5 in their mini action and have a bolt gun that comes in at 4 pounds 7 ozs.... Thanks for the video, I did enjoy it and learned a lot from it... I certainly will be keeping both the grendel and the 556...
You forget the AR-10 was out
@@shadowopsairman1583 He was talking about the difference in weight between the AR-15 platform and the AR-10/SR-25 platform. The difference is usually considerable.
I've owned both the Howa and the Ruger American in the Grendel.
Other than the magazines, I really like them both! Super accurate barrels!
I don't like magazines that hang out of the rifle. I prefer compact "blind" magazines (floor plates are nice too).
I only need three or four rounds in a magazine when I hunt with this cartridge.
That is a great point… the AR10 action is so long that you hardly ever see people actually using AR10s with barrels longer than 18 inches. Most people actually use a 16 inch which then you lose a lot of velocity. If you build 2 guns to the same OAL …. one AR10 in 6.5 CM and one AR15 in 6.5 Grendel the CM will still have several hundred more FPS advantage but the gap narrows and the Grendel is much more efficient… less powder, less recoil, less blast/unburnt powder…
If you're using proper ammo and hit where you're supposed to, double lung , heart, high shoulder, deer don't know the difference between the rounds. They'll kill all the same.
There is a 90 grain 6.5 grendel that does 3000fps, I think you could do a follow up vid about the different 6.5 grendel options compared to the different 5.56 options. I'd like to see how 77gr 5.56 compares to 90gr grendel doing 3000 fps.
I use 123 SST rounds.
Who care? The average civilian self-defense shooting distance is between 3 to 7 yards, Skippy.
well, that could change. will our soldiers shoot Americans? that would mean more than 7 yards.
now that we all have an AR-15 sleepy and co want to stop making 556.
see where they are going? the United States and, guess, Yemen, are the only places where there are store fronts that can sell guns and ammo to civilians. please research Agenda 21. the plan of the UN to unarm and control the world, started in 1992 and to be completed in 2030. @@Enjoyer.762
@@Enjoyer.762 1. This isn't a self defense test or comparison.
2. Pistol cartridges are the most commonly used within 7 yards.
3. They're specific reasons why rifle cartridges with Long range defense ballistics exist
4. Do you comprehend skippy?
@williamster2015 Do you comprehend Meal Team 6? You're not ever going shoot someone in a legitimate self-defense situation that any potential long-range ballistic advantage of 6.5 Grendel is going to matter.
I love the grendel. With the carbon Howa mini my 9 year old gets 1/2 inch groups at 100yds. For a 4-1/2 lb rifle that's pretty good. And it's a deer and hogs slayer with no recoil.
Big deal everyone on youtube gets 1/2” groups at 100 yards. Try doing something actually hard like getting a 6.5mm group at ten millions yard like i did yesterday.
In all seriousness do you realize how ridiculous you sound? 1/2” MOA from a 9 year old… yeah right…
I have both. To put, shall we call it “lethal” power at targets beyond 300 m it would be the Grendel. Since I reload the cost difference is negligible to me and the commonality of the platform is a big cost savings over the 308 and other 6.5 cartridges. Let’s face it there is no one, perfect tool for every job. My Grendel is for when I need to “reach out and touch someone”.
The average civilian self-defense shooting distance is 3 to 7 yards. Have fun in court trying to beat a homicide charge because you shot someone at long range while claiming it was self-defense.
@@Enjoyer.762no bodies, no crime 😉
@leorguevara3622 Sure, kid. DNA and forensic evidence have put away guilty people. They don't need a body to charge you with murder or manslaughter.
@@leorguevara3622 They'll still convict you on DNA and various forensic evidence.
@@Enjoyer.762 some of us are just using them for hunting. In that case the 6.5 has a clear advantage. Lighter than 308 and plenty of energy for deer. So it has its place I figured I would use it for that a lot more often than for self defense 👍🤷🏽♂️
I'm a 6.5 owner, agree with your test but the 6.5 will carry more energy at greater distances that the advantage of the 6.5
Plus it stays super sonic out to 1k with a vastly superior BC.
Correct..
grendel or creedmore or prc or swede?😅 k the grendel i’m guessing
Like a Tesla does.
@@nozrep I read that the russians are developing a new cartridge as they have found that both the 7.62 x 39 and the 5.45 x 39 deficient against western body armour. The calibre is reported to be 6.02 x44. awaiting developments
I'm really starting to look forward to the next segments from this channel.
Well done sir, thank you for sharing.
Love your videos, simple tests, no grand lecture on your knowledge of everything, just " here this is what this bullet does" thanks.
Hey man, I just wanted to tell you I really enjoy your videos. Keep it up!!
I have both. However, I chose 6.5 Grendel.
Just want to say thank you for showing all the nice calibers around :-)
The most ive never seen here.
Always great to watch.
Bananas greets from Germany
The difference between the two, is the 6.5 grendel maintains it's ballistic advantages as the range gets longer or as the brush gets thicker, compared to the 5.56.
I'm currently doing some load development for my 6.5 Grendel (20-inch Faxon barrel AR). I have to say, the Banana Ballistics channel never fails to entertain and inform. Keep it up !!!! Thanks!
Try 123grain Hornady ELD Match loaded with 26.0 grains of 8208XBR powder, at an OAL of 2.50” Best load I have worked out using a 20” bolt gun with 1:8 twist. Easily shoots sun MOA at 100 yards, usually keeping groups of about 1/2” or smaller. (the Hornady SST, and the Nosler Match Monster bullets work just as good as well) The issue for me seems to be neck cracking of the cases (even thought I began annealing them) I was getting about 3-4 reloads per case, annealing moved it to about 5-6, but usually by the 5th time fired, the necks have split, or shown signs that they will. Never any over pressure signs though, and always clean burn, with no un-burnt powder left behind. I have also had some good results with CFE 223 powder, but the XBR8208 seems to work better (for me)
I built a 6.5 Grendel as my CQC and SPR rifle. Perfect combo of high lethality in close quarters and a great intermediate range Marksman/ sniper rifle. Check out the ballistics on the 6.5 Grendel out of a 12.5 barrel. Also great out of an 16"-20" barrel for designated marksman's rifle.
I can also tell you that FMJ ammo will go through 3/8" steel at 100yds. Especially if it is LAP rounds.
For me, I'd prefer having different tools for those jobs.
.300 BLK or even PCC for short range/ indoor.
Then a 6.5 Creedmoor or a .308 for longer ranges.
I guess the Grendel is a good choice if you want to try to combine them.
@@pewpewTN
It is perfect for combining those roles purely for combat purposes. Everything has its limitations.
@@pewpewTN You plan to carry both?
@@cohesive3482 Carry both? I'm not going to carry either one of them. I'm going to carry a handgun.
@@cohesive3482
Carry both of what? I built one 6.5 Grendel AR.
6.5 Grendel is better small compact but punches above its weight especially at close and longer range 👌
Close range maybe, long range, not so much.
There is no 6.5 Grendel steel penetrator EPR load. There is a military 5.56 M855A1 EPR steel penetrator which destroys every 6.5 Grendel load in defeating barriers.
@@Enjoyer.762 Yeah if anyone's got like a hundred bucks...a round 😐 unless you're talking one of the other versions where they're not as good then those just aren't worth it except for maybe green tip also if you know what you're doing you can just make your own slugs
@@bliksemdonder5624 delivers more energy and 556 is still slow and takes a second hit anyway so I'd rather my hits actually count when have a slightly easier time hitting it otherwise it's going to zip right through The tumble effect is usually with shorter barrels anyway
@dankdaze42069 Pulled M855A1 EPR bullets are available on the civilian market from time to time. You just need to reload your own 5.56 NATO brass.
Depends on bullet choice. I like both. Get an 85 gr bullet going 3000 fps out a grendel and you'll see a very interesting comparison. Especially if it's all copper. An 85 gr or 90 gr Maker vs a 55 gr barnes would be awesome.
80gr Hammer Hunter will cook at very fast speeds.
Love the Grendel. When I got into it the Russian steel case was here and cheap and rifles loved it.
I quite liked seeing this comparison as I have multiple rifles on both calibers, the Grendel I tend to build around longer barrels than the 5.56 as I use it for hunting and want to keep the velocity up. I'd say the reason to choose the Grendel over the 5.56 is for energy into the target within 400 yards and why choose it over the .308 or Creedmore is because Grendel gets to run in the smaller and lighter AR-15 platform with lighter recoil for keeping on target better for following up shots and rapid fire. Grendel os a proper balance in the middle range between 5.56 and .308 and a great deer and hog round.
One word: Deer Hunting. That energy=down-range oomph! Also, out of an AR-15 platform as opposed to the .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor which would require the larger AR-10 sized platform. Good data though. I always enjoy your tests, thanks!
Deer Hunting ..... is............ TWO WORDS
@@Camshaft-fu9xn WOW! Thanks so much for that! I was merely trying to do two things at once (boy I should know better. First I was trying to be a bit humorous and secondly, I was honoring your President (as he had done that on multiple occasions). Sorry you missed it. I will try to put a disclaimer on all my posts in the future that may contain satire!
@@MrOldclunker 🤣 Get a better AR.. my Grendel shoots 1/2 MOA with hunting bullets and dropped plenty of deer out to 400 yds. My LR-308 has taken antelope at 550 yds, though it only shoots 3/4 MOA. 🤠
This
Good comparison video and as always very well done! However, as others have commented, the .556/.223 lacks the energy out beyond 250-300 yds to take medium game humanely. My son took a whitetail at 225 yds with the 6.5 Grendel that I built on the AR platform for him to hunt with. The game animal fell in its tracks from a good vital area shot with a 123 grain ELD Hornady.
I've read those eld's aren't very good for hunting. Through and through. Whereas the sst's seem to have better performance. Then again at range maybe the low drag plays a role. Most of what I was reading on was inside 200.
@@matthewbeaver5026 Not even the ELD-X? I thought it was a bonded bullet designed for hunting.
@@cohesive3482 I prob should have specified eld-m
The x was designed around hunting performance. Where as the m (match) was intended to punch holes in paper.
AR-15 vs AR-10 I shoot both but most people don't. New upper vs AR-10 & my daughter- no problem w size rifle or recoil of the Grendel. Most are watching for the "next purchase" not what they have...$3-400 vs 1k & up strong case for 6.5G
What? Stop drunk posting.
You’d choose the Grendel because it’s a 1000 yd or medium game cartridge that fits n an ar15
Most landowners here in Texas will tell you to go pound sand if you plan on hunting with it.
@@bliksemdonder5624 guess it’s a good thing I don’t take advice from or hunt on the and of Texans 😉
@bliksemdonder5624 Vegans tell me not to eat meat but....
@bliksemdonder5624 On a serious note. People's opinions don't override facts. I've got an old coworker who swears a V8 will get better gas mileage than a 4cyl because "the V8 is stronger and doesn't try as hard". I have friends who feel anything under 45cal won't kill deer or hog. I have one friend who thinks the 30-30 can't, absolutely can not, kill deer past 50yds. People can believe whatever they want but on this subject, meat in the freezer proves them wrong every hunting season.
You're not shooting deer or human threats out to 1,000 you wanna be sniper.
Tie breaker should be the volume of the crater in the plate or penetration at 100 yards.
ohhh a good idea!
No
Comparing to his other videos the holes on plate steel get wider whenever the bullet is stopped. Measuring the volume of the hole would t necessarily be a good indicator
Size of the round is already around 20% larger for the 6.5 so that would automatically make the 6.5 crater larger.
6.5 should also penetrate @ 100 yards due to grain size too.
It's possible to consistently ring steel at 1300 yards with the Grendel. I have never heard of anyone making consistent shots past 800 with a 5.56. also, the Grendel has the mass to take large game at typical hunting distances legally and ethically. It's too bad we can't get the cheap Russian steel case anymore, that made the Grendel inexpensive to shoot as well.
I've seen people win competitions at 1000 and 1200 with 223 but for ease the 6.5 grendel would be easier.
I do not need to choose...got ‘em both!
I have 2 lowers. I just buy uppers in different calibers. Diversify
Had to watch because of the "Don't waste your money" statement in the title. Perhaps a bit more context would be in order for that statement to apply. For hunting or long range shooting the Grendel far surpasses the 5.56. While I know there are some that would argue with me, the 5.56 is really not a sufficient whitetail round. I have heard of countless animals not recovered with the 5.56 with all types of bullets being used. Most 5.56 bullets only have 4-500 ftlbs of energy at 300 yards while the Grendel with a 120 grain bullet is still carrying over 1000 ftlbs. For plinking or just backyard shooting like this at 50 yards I agree with you, buying a grendel and ammo makes no sense but outside of that the Grendel offers a lot more capability especially in the AR platform. Just my 2 cents.
The Grendel is in no way a long range cartridge.
.220 swift doesn’t even start dropping until 400+ yards so.
Meaning it’s a flat trajectory needing no scope adjustment until you’re reaching past 400 yards.
6.5 Grendel is like comparing .300 BLK to 7.62x51.
Except there’s no advantage to using 6.5 Grendel.
The 6.5 Grendel is like the black sheep of the 6.5 family of cartridges
If you use 5.56 to hunt whitetail you are a complete idiot and a criminal in a lot of jurisdictions.
Your .02 cents are criminal .02 cents, you cannot use 5.56 to take a deer.
@@AmmoshortageNP220 swift is not an AR cartridge Einstein.
The Serbian army introduced the 6.5Grendel (local version 6.5x39) and modular Zastava M19 rifle with two calibers (6.5Grendel and 7.62x39). In the future, 6.5Grendel will be the main bullet for serbian infantry units. Currently, it is only used by special units.
I thought the serbs only killed civilians. They shouldn’t need that for unarmored civilians.
Thank's for your video content which is unique. There is a catridge that's never been tested on barrier's ( i mean ever) the 224 valkyrie. Personally i think it's the only serious competition the 5.56 has. Many thank's again.
Grendel beats 556 in every way that matters. Size, energy at every range, wind deflection, range still supersonic, ballistic coefficient.
@paolosasso2189 Except it doesn't from a military perspective because Grendel bolts are weaker than 5.56 NATO bolts. The lugs break faster. Grendel doesn't feed well in full auto. Grendel also has reduced magazine capacity.
I don't have a select fire lower to test your supposition. I believe the BCG has since been improved. As to capacity, that is true but it seems the military itself does not care about that given its pending adopted of the M5.
@@paolosasso2189 There is no M5. They have the SIG M7 MCX-SPEAR in 6.8x51. You don't know what you're talking about, kid.
@railfanningpoints2.045 bro, is very quick to judge. it was originally designated M5 and yes, changed to M7 and 6.8mm = .277. Further, why would the military be pivoting away from 556 if it performed so fabulously in Afghanistan.
I think the attraction to 6.5 Grendel over the 6.5 Creedmore is not only the ballistic performance as a DMR rifle on the AR15 platform but more important is the cost. 6.5 CM requires the M5(AR10) while the Grendel only needs its own complete upper & mags.
or just stay with m262 and 762.51.
Both of those rounds are in common use with other platforms.
Both give extended range.
Grendel can be used with pmags as well, just can't fit that many rounds,
10mm vrs 357
That doesn't make any sense - the cost of 6.5 Grendel is more than 6.5 CM, by a lot.
@@ofironboundflame5117I think you got your information wrong or maybe backwards.
I understand that the 6.5 has a much longer effective Distance.
Also the BC keeps it on target much better!
You can hunt most anything with Grendel but not 556
6.5 Grendel is cool because it uses a standard AR15 lower. Much lighter than an AR10. It’s a super cool round. It’s one I reload. Carries way more energy long distance than 5.56. Stupid accurate too.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite gun channels! I've seen every video for the last few months and get excited when I see a new upload. Keep them coming man!
This is very handy info to have just before my big mild steel safari.
I built a 6.5 Grendel AR, and it's a thing of beauty and precision. BUT, the ammo is expensive, and even the empty brass is crazy. I've switched back to .308 Win for range & power, and to 300 Blackout for light and versatile. I also have a fantastic 5.56 AR, but it's taking a break this year because I've got the attention span of a ferret with an espresso drip. I decided that 6.5 Grendel is a great round, but not great enough for the price/shot.
Sad but true.
There are so many cool rounds out there but unless you are rich enough to buy and store mass quantities of weird expensive ammo it's just not practical.
How much?
@@ukuskota4106 For 6.5 Grendel rounds? It varies depending on what you're getting and from who and on availability.
Up until a couple years ago, Grendel blasting ammo used to cost barely more than 5.56 blasting ammo. FJB. I'm crossing my fingers that PSA will add Grendel to their USA steel-case ammo production line. You can also resize spent 7.62x39 shells to use for Grendel if you're into reloading.
@@flaircraft So I heard, on the price a few years back. I do reload, but I decided my time and money was better spent on 300 Blackout for a short-barrel AR-15, and 308 for a long-barrel AR-10. I still have my AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel (20" Proof Research barrel, upgraded BCG, the works), but I don't really use it right now because of ammo and components costs. It's a wonderful firearm, but I think I like 300 Bk better right now.
I just found your channel a week or two ago and I have to tell you I am loving it. Your tests are practical and well done. Love the videos and I am very much enjoying watching them all. Keep up the good work. I'll keep watching and up-voting.
Depending on application..... but for all purpose, the Grendel.
Respect for your taget system, versatile and stabil.
I shoot a lot of 6.5 Grendel. Definitely my favorite caliber for the ar15 and the velocity has always bugged me but after dozens of dead white tails and shooting 600+ yards especially in wind it’s way easier to connect with the Grendel. I prefer the 120gn federal fusion for deer but the 115 grain Barnes is pretty sweet too. Both going right around 2550fps. If you want something moving faster I like the 90gn bullets. The American eagle 90gn jhp is going 2900fps from my rifle and the 105gn sierra game king going almost 2700fps. But the majority of ammo you find is 120-123gn and from a 16-18” ar you can expect 2400-2500fps but from my river American with a 16” barrel I’m getting 2500-2600 fps from most 120-123gn bullets
1650-1800FPE > 1100-1290FPE.
Reloading opens up a whole new world for both cartridges, but the Grendel is just plain better, imho. The 6.5 bullet has much better BC which helps it maintain energy further and buck the wind better, and it has superior sectional density, and more case capacity. The only drawbacks (from reloading perspective) would be the fact that the Grendel Bolt has less surface material and the case is only rated for 52,000psi vs the 556's 62,000psi.
7.62×39 brass (cheaply obtained from most gun ranges) can be necked down to make 6.5G brass.
As usual, cool video. 😎 Since you work so much one handed, maybe just glue the rubber piece to the vice jaw. Then you just have to point it out instead of having to place it and line it up with one hand.
I'm shocked! I would have bet a GRAND on the 6.5! Wow!
I’d bet if the test had been ran at 200 yards you’d seen the 6.5G pull a head
You would loose a grand...
@@bliksemdonder5624 - the 6.5 (123 Hornaday frontier) will be about 300+ fps faster than a 75 grn (Hornaday superformance) OTM 5.56 projectile at 200 yards but maybe the ballistics tables are wrong… so faster heavier projectile out performed by slower, lighter projectile? Yep sounds like you’re probably right.
He only gave it to the 5.56 on cost.
Subjective only based on usage. Hog 6.5 Grendel. Varmints 5.56
6.8 SPC is better for hogs than 6.5 Grendel
@@Enjoyer.762 well I have a 6.5 Grendel. Not buying another upper. 😂
Chose 6.5 because I have an ar15 and don’t have 300 win mag or anything larger. It’s cheaper to switch uppers and have different ammo. Got the 22lr bolt conversion to just fool around with with my 223 upper, separate 300 aac upper for defense, and 6.5 20 inch upper to reach out.
I did something similar, except I bought a dedicated 22lr upper. It's very accurate and fun! Of course I had to put an eotech on it, so that doubled the cost lol
Grendel out of an AR is still significantly flatter shooting and delivers more energy on target at further distances. You'll really see the difference open up at 300-500 yards
Still doesn’t do nearly as good a job as .308 or similarly sized cartridges. Still not convinced it matters that much that it fits in a standard AR-15 footprint
@@yourmother3569 well yeah, it serves a different purpose than say 6.5 Creedmoor. Out to a certain distance though, I'll happily take my Grendel over my 308. Lighter ammo to carry, lighter gun, still pretty solid ballistics without having to step up to an AR-10
@@ISZAudio I suppose it’s up to you if those advantages are worth the extra cost, and if they are, that’s fair, but for me and many others it just doesn’t make sense.
@@yourmother3569 it definitely is in niche applications. My Grendel is my competition gun out to about 1k yards, and it's a reasonable whitetail caliber as well.
Honestly if you can only have 1 rifle and need a good do everything rifle you can't argue with the 308 though.
I wouldn't recommend a Grendel unless you've got cash to burn on a dedicated build and on the ammo (which is admittedly pricey, I'm getting into handloading to mitigate that somewhat)
At 300-500 yards, the 5.56 will be shitting on the Grendel drop-wise. Grendel will drift considerably less though and retain energy better at all ranges.
Was an interesting test. Didn't know Grendel ammo was that pricey.
The Grendel won on the concrete and on the steel, so where’s the tie that needed to be broken?
You're welcome. I feel so validated 😁 Great test, sirs.
Very well done and informative Thanks, 👍
As someone who has extensively used both on living tissues, I know without a doubt that the 6.5 Grendel has much much better terminal ballistics than a 5.56. That’s at the muzzle and the high BC bullets allow that advantage to increase more and more as distance increases. The ability to penetrate dense bone and muscle tissue is much better due to the higher energy combined with the mild velocity not causing fragmentation which plagues the 5.56 and other varmint cartridges. Sure you can use mono or bonded bullets to prevent that in the 5.56 but those dramatically increase the cost of ammo and the lower bullet weight and lower energy still won’t provide the penetration or internal damage that normal cheap cup and core bullets will from the 6.5 Grendel. The 6.5 Grendel has been used to humanely take deer, hogs, black bear, elk, and even a few moose which I have pictures of. That’s something that a 5.56 isn’t going to ever compare with.
Yup, I'll side with the old 5.56 on what you were doing in your tests, but I suspect the Grendel would be better down range at greater distances.
Not really, land owners won't allow this cartridge for hunting due to its failures.
I love my Grendel rigs, but 556 is still my go to because I have shorter barrel and more proficient with that particular rig.
I chose the 6.5 Grendel with a 20" barrel. For me the 5.56 is a .22 caliber bullet. The 6.5 Grendel is a .25 caliber bullet. The 6.5 Grendel would be better for deer hunting and other game.
*Grendel hands down* Shooting steel and game are two differentT things. The Grendel fills the gap.
This why I have always liked Paul Harrell's videos cause of the patented meat target
You are looking at that last plate wrong. You are looking at depth instead measuring how much volume was ejected from the plate by each cartridge. Great video
That was a penetration test, not a slapping test.
It's a barrier penetration test. Volume is irrelevant.
Depends an awful lot on bullet construction FMJ OR NOT!Grendel can penetrate very well with 100.gr. FMJ! I'm a Grendel man 100%!
This may be too.....off for your channel but ive always been interested in the difference in wound channels from a barrel on skin contact gunshot compaired to a bullet's wound channel.
I was shot at almost contact range and it was rough, wondered how much worse it would have been if it was pushed against my abdomen....doctors seemed to believe I was lucky that I didnt experience that.
you spun quite the yarn just to toot your own horn.
I bet the best range to get shot is the point of highest velocity and lowest amount of tumble with an over stabilized bullet with high twist barrel
Clean puncture
That’s why 5.45 is nasty it tumbles under 100ft
6.5 Grendel is my go to round for most everything AR 15 related. Yep, .308 will provide better performance but out of a heavier platform. The jury is still out on the Ruger SFAR....And yes the 556 is cheaper to run but I equate the difference in cost to the old saying, How much is your and your family's life worth. This is of course my opinion. I'm curious how a 100 grain 6.5 Grendel load would compare to the 77 grain OTM 5.56 load. Keep slinging and I'll keep watching..
Are you really this dumb lol? 5.56 NATO has dropped many over the last 60 years. Regarding keeping your family safe, the average civilian self-defense shooting distance is between 3 to 7 yards, Rambo.
Id be interested in seeing the performance difference between 2 loadings of the same caliber, specifically a 55gr or M855 against 77gr OTM 5.56
Everyone has done that type of test already for years. Don't you know how to look up videos Boomer?
I have a bunch of steel cased Grendel. It was super cheep in the day. Not a buck or more like the brass cased rounds. Grendel def more fun to shoot than the 5.56. Worth the money.
It makes you think: What if .30-06 was adopted as 7.62×63mm NATO, and thus being further developed?🤔
What if 6.5x55mm Swedish was adopted as a NATO round, and it too kept being further developed (for the assault, or battle rifle round)?🤔
3006 is the original nato round, they cut it down to 51 it's power was to waste full.
30-06 needs more powder to get the same performance with the same bullet due to larger case volume and more powder still to squeeze out another 100-150fps.
Probably not worth the added action length in fully automatic weapons and also keep in mind that the ammo is like half an inch longer and heavier too.
Added powder charge doesn't do you any favor either when it comes to barrels heating up
7.62 NATO is the further development of 30-06.
It's parent case (.308) is .300 Savage though.
Never mind. Suffice to say is that the Ruskies are working on their own equivalent of the .277 Fury.
@@JustPeasantNo they're not lol.
Out to 400 yards the 6.5G shins in the wind & LB-FT, it has about half the drift in 6.5G 123g vs 5.56 55g.
@JohnDonohue-ft5kf it's actually possible to get comparable external ballistics with a high BC 224 diameter bullet. And some of the 5.56 heavy high BC loads will beat a 6.5 Grendel on drop and wind drift at long range.
@@Mike-xi4zt Not against the 123gr Fort Scott TUI with .587 G1 BC. You just can’t get a 90gr fast enough in .223 Rem, and that’s even when you single-load them.
@@LRRPFco52 velocities for both the 6.5 G 123gr and 5.56mm 90 gr are both nearly identical at 2575 fps. .224 90 gr vlds BC 551. Two bullets with the same muzzle velocity will win with the higher ballistic coefficient. So that looks to me like the 223/5.56 wins even with the example you just gave.
The 80 gr . 224 fort scott BC is . 540. 5.56mm can shoot those at 2775 fps. That will have less wind drift and less drop than a 123 grain 6.5 G. In fact it's significantly better as in 200 ft per second better with the same BC. Fort Scott did not list a BC for the 123 gr 6.5mm. 130 gr 6.5 mm vld is 552 BC. 2400 fps is the best a 6.5G shoots those. 6.5 G looses the race.
223/5.56 beats 6.5G 120-123 gr with 80 gr FC or 90 gr vld.
Mag length 75 gr 224 at 2850 fps . 423 BC has enough velocity to still beat 6.5G at long range.
@@Mike-xi4zt You can’t mag-load the 90gr VLD into short enough COL to work in the AR-15, so it’s single-load only. Same for 80gr. Fort Scott listed BC for 123gr 6.5mm TUI is .587 G1. I have boxed ammo for it with the BC listed, and the shape of the bullet indicates it has a higher BC than 123gr SMK and 123gr Scenar (.522 and .527 per Litz).
Also, you will simply not achieve 2800fps from 5.56 with an 80gr copper monolith unless you over-pressure the cartridge and still have to single-load. I’m not seeing an 80gr projectile available from Fort Scott. I only see 40gr, 55gr, 62gr, and 70gr both for projectile components and loaded ammo. They do have 80gr .243” projectiles and ammo with a .540 G1 BC, which is what I think you’re looking at.
I can shoot 80gr as fast or faster from a 12” Grendel than single-loaded 20” 5.56, with 10,000psi less chamber pressure.
I haven’t chrono’d the 123gr TUI yet or loaded with it, but it has the highest 123gr BC for 6.5mm of them all at .587 G1, and will keep an 8.5” Grendel supersonic at ridiculous distances. From 14.5” to 18” guns, it will be really flat with that BC.
Keep in mind I’ve been running DM courses since 1996 and have seen a lot of 5.56, .308, .260 Rem, Grendel, and 6.5CM flight characteristics. There hasn’t been anything happening with 5.56 that interests me in many years now. I like it for what it is, but a good DM cartridge it is not once we start reaching out.
@@LRRPFco52 75 gr vld 224 can be loaded to AR mag lengthwith the right mag.
75 gr 224 at 2870 fps is supersonic to 1250 yards and drops 1203 inches at 1500 yards.
120 gr BTHPM 6.5mm G at 2575 fps is supersonic to 1000 yards and drps 1646 inches at 1500 yards
223 beats 6.5 G
Hodgdon and Berger list 80 gr 223 2785 fps. If you are Hornady you round that up tp 2900 fps.
Fort Scott removed the BC for 123 gr 6.5mm, probably revaluating that number.
With all your experience you still can not remove yourself from cartridge worship and still do not understand how BC and velocity actually works.
Who makes a 80 grain 6.5mm???
Tiebreaker was fair. 5.56 is much cheaper ($1 round, wow)
70 cents where I live. Fleet Farm. ❤
Cabelas is 35% higher in price for everything. Same with Scheels.
@@redfaux74 Mills fleet farm
I've been handloading since the introduction of smokeless powder...almost, so price doesn't matter. 223/5.56 is a good round, for what it is. The 6.5 Grendel, especially in a quality, micro-action bolt gun, is a totally different proposition. The way the .264" bullets retain velocity makes any 6.5 suitable for things the 223/5.56 simply can't handle as well, at least not with standard weight bullets.
With ammo prices what they are, sadly 6.5 grendel and 6 arc are only viable options if you are a reloader. But if you are, then both are amazing alternatives.
I like the 6.5 G it has little longer legs and bucks the wind better. The AR 15 platform is nice and light compared to AR 10. It was almost impossible to find factory ammo about a year ago, and when you do find it, it is more expensive. For a range toy or an SHTF rifle, I'll use the 5.56.
There are 124 different factory options for 6.5 Grendel as of Dec 2023, and growing. It hits way harder on steel, even comparing a 24” barrel .223 Rem with 77gr vs 12” Grendel shooting 123gr at distance. The impact from the 6.5mm is night and day better than the .223 Rem out of a bolt gun, and there isn’t anything you can do to make the .223 Rem perform better.
One is for hunting game, the other is for defending against soft (human) targets.
One does better at both and retaining energy at distance, while also perfuming extremely well at hit probability at distance. My 12” Grendel shoots 90gr TNT at 2700fps. Imagine getting hit with that in the house or across the street. Even with a 20” barrel AR-15 in 5.56, you will never get a 90gr to 2700fps. Grendel does it from 12” with 10,000psi less chamber pressure.
The main reason for the Grendel was for use in a ar15 pattern rifle offering superior performance. It also works well in a bolt gun due to soft shooting. The Grendel will also put a deer down at 400 yards and more
Quite a few cartridges were created to try to replace the 5.56/223 but none have succeeded. The US Army evaluated all of them but none met the requirements to replace the 5.56/223. If one is ever found, it will catch on like crazy in the civilian market.
Isn't that what the .277 Fury is supposed to be?
@@Twargan the 277 Fury has already been discarded by the US Army because it failed to meet certain standards.
You're correct, but it isn't only performance which is being measured, but sunk costs, the economics and hassle of replacing a long-serving service rifle and cartridge combination, etc. There have been plenty of high-performance cartridges which have met or exceeded the DOD/Pentagon performance criteria, but they didn't go all-in on them for a variety of reasons, most of which are financial or other factors. The 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, and 6.8 SPC are all excellent cartridges which outperform 5.56/.223 in different ways, but Big Green hasn't gone for them.
It's sort of strange that the Pentagon bean-counters cite cost as a factor, since they never seem to have that problem when some expensive high-tech system is proposed... but all of a sudden, they get stingy when it is time to equip the grunts.
The 5.56x45mm AR platform has enough advantages that it will probably be around for years to come, at least in some manner.
It checks all the boxes, probably why Akms now use a similar cartridge.
@@reddune6185 - Didn't Serbia or someone adopt 6.5 Grendel as a military round?
I have both the 6.5 and 5.56.
In my mind the 6.5 optimizes the AR platform and what you get is a cartridge that gives you a 75% 308 out of an AR15 platform. What I mean by that is you get similar velocities of a 308 but with bullets weighing 75% of the 308 bullets.
Because of the higher BCs, the 6.5 will deliver flatter trajectories than the 308 (and also the 5.56).
The 6.5 fills a nitch, it’s the answer to the question: how closely can I replicate 308 performance in an AR15 platform.
If we took the Grendel back in time and showed it to Stoner, I think he would be very happy with it for the AR-15.
Wish you tested 90 gr 6.5 grendel.
I like my Grendel more than my 5.56s but I use both. I've made hits on steel plate at 878 yards in 22 mph winds. 8 out of 8. Shot 3" groups at 640 yards and I reload a lot. I have thousands of rounds and it is more expensive.
They really should have used 6.5 Grendel for the Squad Automatic Weapon LMG instead of 5.56 Nato.
I purchased 2000 rds of surplus ammo for 9 cents a rd over 556 2yrs ago. And I run mine through a 22" barrel for the long shot. Many people have done mile long bucket challenge with the grendel.
Your second shot on the sled with the 6.5 also hit the wing or it would have been a pass thru. I'm going 6.5
He fired again, did you miss it?
Anyone who has ever driven nails by hand for a living knows without a doubt that speed is way more important for punching wholes than weight. The faster you strike a nial with the hammer, the less likely it is to bend and not sink in. The smaller the nail, the more important it becomes.
Good stuff. Thanks! Would also like to see the PPU 6.5 Grendel 110gr FMJ tested cuz it has more velocity.
90gr TNT factory load from Federal is cooking. It does 2700fps from my 12” Grendel, 2900fps from my 17.6”.
@@LRRPFco52damn! that would be up over 3100 in my 20"
@@matthewbeaver5026 From a 20” Lilja, the Federal 90gr TNT would do about 2963fps. A 24” would get it over 3000fps.
If you want over 3000fps, shoot the 80gr Hammer Tipped Hunter.
@@LRRPFco52 seems 2.5" should net more than 63fps more. Obviously it would need tested. Paper data is only worth the paper it's wrote on.
@@matthewbeaver5026 It flattens out as you get further than 18”. I used an internal ballistics engine calculator specifically engineered for 6.5 Grendel, as well as all the tested load data from Hodgdon’s, Hornady, AA, etc. I’ve been crunching these numbers and doing velocity measurements with a chronograph with various Grendels since 2009.
For putting lead and copper on paper, sand, steel, etc, yeah, don't waste your money on the Grendel. But! If you're looking to put a live target down, the Grendel wins hands down. More energy than 5.56, more range, better accuracy at longer range, the Grendel is just a beast when it comes to live targets
How do you look 15 & sound 51 at the same time?
No. He looks 25. His voice is incredibly manly.
He's got lots of pews.... so he gets lots of points. ❤
I have both. .556 for plinking and 6.5 Grendel for hunting.
Do you have a 6.8 SPC vs 6.5 Grendel video
I have built AR's in both 5.56x45 and 6.5x39 Grendel and I like both and it's a 50/50 situation, I like the Grendel's larger diameter and it's flatter trajectory but, in a SHTF moment I'd go 5.56 in a heartbeat simply because of availability, the Grendel is a newer round and not well adopted yet whereas the 5.56x45 has been around for 50 years and is extremely popular and will be everywhere.
🇺🇸
🤘🏻
No, 6.5 Grendel is absolutely worth it in many scenarios. One, greater muzzle energy and it retains that energy better. Two, and most importantly in a tactical situation, it mimics the trajectory of .308 in the lighter AR15 platform, at least out to 600 yards or so. This means .308 BDCs will work and you can reach out and touch something. You can also have a very good magazine capacity. Very useful for a DMR. And three, it CAN take deer, even though it's not truly ideal for that. So you've got a long-range cartridge that hits fairly hard out of a lightweight but low-recoil rifle. For a mobile designated marksman, it's a solid option.
Did you ever try green tip 556 ammo on the sand box?
6.5 Grendel used to be cheap.....and with the right load, it can be a lot faster than what you measured.
With the right load, the 6.5 G stays supersonic over 1000yds and delivers more energy than the M80 7.62x51
I LOVE my 18" 6.5G AR upper from PSA. it is WAY more accurate over 500m than any 5.56 I have shot.
Bwahahaha, I saw this title as 6.5 and assumed CM. I was like, really? Then I realized I was brain farting. 😂
Bro same. Like 2/3rds of the way through I was like wait...Grendel isn't a fucking creedmore, I've been using my brain wrong this entire video 😅
I have AR's chambered in both 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel and they are both great. I have to say though that my rifle chambered in 6.5 Grendel is an awesome deer rifle!