The Great Tartan Con Job! Who Were the Sobieski Stuarts? Heroes or Crooks?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 кві 2022
- Who were the Sobieski Stuarts? And why was their "crime" so critical to Scottish history and the Kilt?
We explore the unlikely story of how two English brothers convinced a nation that they were the grandkids of Bonny Prince Charlie....AND held the secret ancient tartans of the great Clans of Scotland!
This is the brief history and long shadow of the "great Sobieski Stuarts and their masterpiece of fraud The Vestiarium Scoticum - a tome which purported to hold the official ancient tartans of over 60 clans and noble families. Why did people believe them? Why do we accept their tartan designs even to this day???
--------------------------------------------------
Started in 2003, USA Kilts is a team of kilt makers and artisans located in Spring City PA. In 2017, we made it our mission to build community and bring kilts and Celtic culture to the forefront with our YT show: Kilts & Culture.
www.USAKilts.com
Find Your Tartan!: www.usakilts.com/galleries
UA-cam: / usakiltsofficial
Facebook: / usakilts
Instagram: / usakilts
E-mail: sales@usakilts.com
Fascinating! Someone should make a movie about this!
This would not be the first time in history that intended scammers ended up doing a public service, but it sure is a colorful story! This is a perfect example of, "If you build it, they will come."
I have heard this story before, but never put so completely and succinctly. Thanks for the history lesson.
I can't fault people for wanting more tartan in their lives. This is such a fascinating con job. I know I've heard it previously but this presentation of the history is fantastic.
While you were talking about the invented tartans, there was a listing for a video from The Utility Kilt channel showing a MacLeod pattern kilt. And Sean Connery in full Scottish regalia? Be still, my beating heart. 💞 There is a photo of him dressed thusly, sitting with his legs apart, and I recalled that line from Black Adder: “Oh, you enormous Scotsman, you!” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Love the videos, guys!
🤣😂
I remember that picture of Sean! (hubba-hubba) 😍 Black Adder was one of the best! 👍🤣
Excellent presentation. An owner who lives and is an expert in all things surrounding his product.
I do my best to be a sincere student of the culture and I honestly enjoy learning, sharing and inspiring others. 😁 - Rocky
Thank you for putting this out there!!
HAPPY TARTAN DAY 2022!!!
Excellent presentation! Thanks, for the facts.
Fantastic video explaining something I'd only heard a little about.
...a bit like fisherman's sweaters. Ha! It is what it is. I still love both the knitting and the weaving. Ironic, yes; we are richer for it. One of your best videos. :)
Great job Rocky .. Nicely done.
Great 10 minute video, thanks for posting.
I think it doesn't matter. Scotland has given us two things in the fashion world... Tartan and Tweed. Both are inventions of the 19th century, and both have enriched the whole world. If you like Tartan, wear it. Just respect the Chieftains who have chosen a tartan for their clan. If you're not Scotish, chose a tartan that is regional, or not affiliated and wear it. Have fun with it and don't take yourself too seriously.
Been finding your channel very helpful Thanks. Just bought my first Kilt recently, but now it seems my Modern Armstrong might be inauthentic. Did the Armstrongs wear tartan?
thanks, a great story well told🍻
Excellent!
I enjoy your presentations.
If I remember correctly, wearing of tartan and the large bagpipes (war pipes) we associate with Scotland were banned at one time.
Is there a factual definitive book about ancient tartan designs? It would seem that if public wearing of tartan was banned that the
Scots would have used the existing banned fabric for blankets, etc..
The Sobieski Stuarts were con-men; but so was P.T. Barnumn. That didn't stop people from visiting his exhibits and the
Barnum and Bailey Circus. It is not as if the Sobieski Stuarts or PT Barnum were shady stockbrokers/bankers stealing
the retirement savings and income of grannies, widows and orphans.
They were charlatans of the deepest dye, but to be fair, they told a good story, and the fact that it was all a con just adds a colorful twist to the tale. And in the end, that's really what a lot of Celtic history was all about. In ancient times, one of the greatest ways of venerating one's ancestors was to... embellish and elaborate their names and the tales that went with them. Did anyone ever _really_ believe that our Celtic ancestors could spring up and dance on the head of a spear in flight, or outpace the most legendary of steeds on foot? It wasn't the point. So, the Sobieski Stuarts took it a step further, by inventing it of whole cloth, or rather... samples of it.
Aye, the brothers knit quite a tale there, threaded their way through society, and wrapped it up with a nice bow! ;)
To their credit, their patterns were quite good, and did benefit Scotland in the end!
I love history. Interesting story. If the clans accepted the designs who am I to say anything. If they weren't accepted then they should have an asterisks and explanation. Just my take and as such I am up for revisions down the line.
I have the Sobieski version of my clan tartan in a kilt. It’s an official clan tartan, it’s only slightly different from one of the usual ones, and I got a deal on it.
If you go through the clan history there are several stories people tell about it. These are poorly referenced at best.
The facts are that one mill refers to it as an 1842 variant, and it shows up in the Vestiarum Scoticum.
The rest is what you choose to believe.
Thanks folks!!
Great video, Rocky! I noticed that Scott was in the list. Is there no true Scott kilt? Given the name.
Sounds like those two did contribute to the culture. Were any of the tartans officially adopted by their clans?
Even though you showed my tartan, Johnston, in your diagram, I still like it and I'm still going to wear it proudly historical or not. As border revers, our clan has always been pretty dodgy to begin with. Maybe it's fitting that we ended up with a tartan that's equally lawless. Alba gu brath!
Saor Alba 🏴
Love it, considering the riding families of the borders - on either side - neither wore tartan nor spoke Gaelic.
Thanks for enlightening me. Yes, they were scoundrels but more like the Han Solo type. Just shows that a lie told enough times can eventually be regarded as truth.
Well, look at how often "The Great Lie" is used in Politics.
Eight different family lines were Stewart.. I found this video particularly funny
Tartan was probably ancient. Tacitus (roman historian) refers to 'striped' clothes. Roman statues also depict what appears to be tartan eg the Caledonian slave on Caracalla's arch.
Interestingly bodies of drowned English fishermen were returned home based on knitted designs in their sweaters. I wonder if tartan originally performed a similar purpose.
Having studied art history, I am well aware of fakery and it's affect on how people respond to manufactured history. I personally wouldn't want to wear a fake tartan, I guess I have too much respect for the truth.
It all started somewhere, enjoy them in 2022! 🤔
The Bhagwan Rajneesh had more Rolls Royces but, as Bruce Forsyth would say, "Didn´t they do well!"
The tartan one wears basically is either a family tartan or it isn't. It only matters to the wearer.
History certainly gets murky doesn't it...
Is I recall John Sobieski also claimed kinship to Jan Sobieski (król Polski)
Ha ha that is crazy. Thanks for the education.
Heroes!!!
The Vestiarium Scotium variant of the Forbes tartan is little short of an abomination. It's almost all green and black, no white at all, and then they butcher it with red and yellow? You want to see a gorgeous person you look at the modern or ancient Forbes tartans.
And now in the 2020s, humans have not changed much.
We. Should be grateful these boys were not Televangelists
You Showed and Airisaid being worn by an Urquhart not a Grant just saying
Stewart's tended to marry within the extended Clan, so there was a definite "Stewart type". And neither of these men come close to looking "Stewart-ish"
And their sister was the fabled Anastasia!
What’s funny is I’ve heard people argue that this is all legitimate, and real as though they were part of a cult arguing there justification for their beliefs.
The "family" pattern for me is a Sobieski Stuart creation (Stewart of Atholl). I find it to be hideosly ugly so I wear other things.
One is a regional tartan that predates the Grrreat Grrrrift of Scotland.
I don't think my family. Graham of Montrose got taken in
Hi, I'm an Australian descendants of the Graham clan.
An interesting question: Why do you suppose they took on the name Sobieski?? Not sure, but it’s a Polish name that literally translates to “usurp glory.” I can just see the brothers picking out that name and laughing the word, “SUCKERS!” all the way to the bank!
Good Point! ROFL!
@@cecircinn2908 I did not know that. Thanks.
Seems they were both con men and starters of a new kind of life for the Scottish Highlands.
Thanks for the lesson. I agree with your assessment of "victimless crime". As an American with a Scottish last name and some DNA tests resulting in "Scottish," one could consider me a fraud for wearing a Scottish tartan and not truly being from Scotland. This story proves what you punctuate your presentation with: It's what the wearer gets from donning ANY tartan that makes it valid, and special; and should not require blood ties or historical family associations. It just makes us feel good, and that's no crime at all.
Sounds like they may have known Joseph Smith 🤔
Moray is pronounced MURRAY 😉