Hi Mike, it was me that sent it in. A predecessor company to the firm I work for had an in-house testing lab for product testing. We believe it was used somehow around that, we found it in storage. Great video 🙂 Best Regards Gary
@@Gazzerdaman awesome, must have been a weird thing to bump into when browsing through the inventory, super thanks for sending this to mike for teardown
I did IT work for several dental / doctors offices from 2002 until 2014. During that time none of the dental offices had film X-ray systems. It was about 50/50 between phosphor and direct read usb devices that went in the mouth from a company called Shick. The biggest changes where in resolution and read time also the price dropped somewhat at first they would share a direct read usb device between all the chairs they would dip them in solution to clean them and then put well more or less a condom on them to protect the patient. Later they would have one at each chair. In order to check that they where working correctly we would X-Ray American quarters which at a certain power level you could see both sides of the coin in the image, that would give us a good idea that the power level and contrast of the imager where correct. I never saw that system exactly but the typical setup was a computer would be setup in the non patient area with the phosphor reader and they would import and erase the phosphor sides ( they always called it film) then put them in a UV box to sterilize them. As far as X-Ray power level goes that was also something that continued to decrease over time as technology improved. If I could post images I could show some samples of different technologies like i said I have been out of the game for the better part of 5 years. I’m sure I’m missing something if you have any questions let me know.
Yes they are still in use, I know a dental cabinet that has them and a Kodak Carestream scanner. I was really curious about how it is working, so thanks for the teardown.
Vert informative, I'm impressed with the detailed knowledge of the parts, nice job. As for phosphor plate vs Digital X-ray sensor, it comes down to patient comfort. Current digital sensors are bulky and uncomfortable while phosphor plates are thin just like traditional x-ray film. You often can't place digital sensors in the ideal position you want, which means you have to compromise in some of the cases. And also if the patient by accident bites the sensor (it happens more than you think), the sensor is dead.
Im developing many phosphorplates daily this way on a different device. And had a small peek inside them but not that detailed. Very very interesting! Thanks! Ours has a rotating mirror wich rotates quite fast as I can hear it. Its also possible to develop bigger plates that way or multiple at the same time cause the scan area is bigger. Makes me curious how it catches the light from the plate back. Besides that the plates itself are light sensitive. The scanner is too. Once the cover is only took of a very tiny bit it shows an error. Thanks for this teardown!
Nicely engineered machine. I was particularly surprised to see the fibre op feed. Not a fan of the outsides but as with all good things the inside is where you find the magic! Not at all like almost everything I own... ;-)
At my dentist they have just a little thick black plate you take in your mouth and some X-rays from the other side so have they a image on the computer screen the next second. Many many years before that they used ordinary cassettes they hade to develop but I dont know what machines was used for that but the cassettes were a bit bigger then these so something else I guess.
That is indeed very small photomultiplier tube. It looks they are not that uncommon, but the last time I used photomultiplier tube it was like 10 time the size of this one (but surely it was higher gain, sensitivity and efficiency).
The laser assembly appears to be milled billet stainless steel. It would have been easier and cheaper to use aluminium, but it has such a high coefficient of thermal expansion that it would too easily throw out the beam. As you said; built to a spec, not a price.
They are still in use. These small frame images need a lot less radiation than the panoramic/ct style ones. There are also fully digital imaging plates that you stick in your mouth, but they are bulkier and more expensive. Especially if you have patients that like to bite them :) Another advantage is that you can get different sizes of cards for cheap.
Yeah my dentist used a kodac system which consisted of this cmos sensor and a xray sinseliser that excites with xrays. It also has shielded dongle containing flash memory which it reads out over USB 2 pretty neat unit. How ever they switched to this system. He still calls digital but its not really. There's a few interesting repair videos of these kodac systems on youtube. The flex tends brakes on them.
I got scans of my feet at a medical clinic that used something like this. I imagine the cost of a direct read sensor goes up fast as the size increases.
Mike or anyone else, do you know what the name is for the downwards facing opto sensors shown at 15:41? They seem perfect for something I'm doing right now, but I can't find them online.
Considering that a decent RVG sensor is around $3K new,these things are pretty obsolete. I use a chemical method called hot processing so I get an image in one minute sharp so no need for digital,for now.
Thats not nessecarily a bad thing, better he has film than a bad digital machine. Quality can be muuuuch better. The true benefits come with dvt imaging wich is basically a simple CT scan.
Photomultipliers vacuum tubes are actually used in fluorescence microscopes, to target some bioluminescence proteins. I believe that solid state photomultipliers doesn't exist.
@@mikeselectricstuff Thanks for knowledge! Maybe I am wrong, I'm using my memory now, but the reason behind the modern use of photomultipliers instead of photoavalanche diodes not is that he photomultipliers can almost detect single photons?
@@eduardoanonimo3031 both PMTs and semiconductor detectors can detect single photons. Semiconductor detectors usually require cryocooling to work properly though. If you need a large detector, have volume to spare in your device, and cryocooling isn't an option PMTs have the advantage. For high density arrays, and when you need to make things as small as possible, semiconductors rule.
Solid state photomultipliers do exist. They're called... well, quite literally, SiPMs. They consist of tens of thousands of avalanche photodiodes(or SPADs, even) connected in parallel(through caps) on a single die. A nice advantage of SiPMs is that they only need ~25-40V to operate, at negligible currents. I use one made by SensL(now ONSemi) in a spectrometry project. They can sometimes outperform vacuum PMTs in some applications, but they're generally absurdly expensive compared to PMTs in terms of area per dollar. A 6x6mm SiPM is ~$100-150. Scales in volume massively though, drops to
Aaah! I thought it was a X-RAYray machine! Not a scanner. Yes they still use normal film for xray. I was at the dentist last week. New machine doh, no more durrrr sound as they blast my chromosomes.
Two belts - for belt and braces? Go on - stick yer wally’s in it as we say in Glasgie! BTW you edited in the magnetic position sensor twice! (Or was it my imagination)?
Hi Mike, it was me that sent it in. A predecessor company to the firm I work for had an in-house testing lab for product testing. We believe it was used somehow around that, we found it in storage. Great video 🙂
Best Regards
Gary
Thanks!
Keep sending Mike stuff. Thanks too.
Do you think it was used for something else than dental work, Gazzerdaman?
Yes I believe it was used for QA/QC testing for jewellery. Not sure how exactly, may have even been bought in error
@@Gazzerdaman awesome, must have been a weird thing to bump into when browsing through the inventory, super thanks for sending this to mike for teardown
The winking in the diagnostics screen makes me think it's lying to me
great tear down ,,, it seems the youtube cd is skipping or you got stuck in a matrix glitch
The list of "OK ;-)"s is killing me. haha
I did IT work for several dental / doctors offices from 2002 until 2014. During that time none of the dental offices had film X-ray systems. It was about 50/50 between phosphor and direct read usb devices that went in the mouth from a company called Shick. The biggest changes where in resolution and read time also the price dropped somewhat at first they would share a direct read usb device between all the chairs they would dip them in solution to clean them and then put well more or less a condom on them to protect the patient. Later they would have one at each chair. In order to check that they where working correctly we would X-Ray American quarters which at a certain power level you could see both sides of the coin in the image, that would give us a good idea that the power level and contrast of the imager where correct. I never saw that system exactly but the typical setup was a computer would be setup in the non patient area with the phosphor reader and they would import and erase the phosphor sides ( they always called it film) then put them in a UV box to sterilize them.
As far as X-Ray power level goes that was also something that continued to decrease over time as technology improved. If I could post images I could show some samples of different technologies like i said I have been out of the game for the better part of 5 years. I’m sure I’m missing something if you have any questions let me know.
I forgot something, as for the X-Ray generator they never changed, they would stay the same for 10 or 20 years or more.
Thanks for the interesting insights :)
at 9:40 or so some part is duplicated. You should be able to remove that part with youtubes own tools without having to reupload.
Yes they are still in use, I know a dental cabinet that has them and a Kodak Carestream scanner. I was really curious about how it is working, so thanks for the teardown.
Excellent and informative as always - double tap on the scene with the magnetic sensor, got squished in there a second time at the 10 minute mark.
Out of practice editing. CBA to re-edit - busy playing with something for another vid..
@@mikeselectricstuff great to see you back, let us know if there's anything you would like for the channel 👍
We missed you!
OK ;-)
Really missed these kind of teardowns.
Great to see your work again! Thank you.
Welcome back Mike. My dentist still uses traditional x-ray film and all the nurses are trained on how to develop it.
glad to see you back mike :P
Welcome back!
My dentist had a similar unit installed only a few months ago, so very much still in use. It means they can keep their existing xray equipment.
Thanks Mike informative and interesting video as always can't wait for the next.
Love your videos. Very informative. Thank you!
Thanks Mike for the teardown! Hope to see your videos more often!
Vert informative, I'm impressed with the detailed knowledge of the parts, nice job.
As for phosphor plate vs Digital X-ray sensor, it comes down to patient comfort. Current digital sensors are bulky and uncomfortable while phosphor plates are thin just like traditional x-ray film.
You often can't place digital sensors in the ideal position you want, which means you have to compromise in some of the cases. And also if the patient by accident bites the sensor (it happens more than you think), the sensor is dead.
You're back! Wondered where you'd gone!
Finaly something to watch from Mike again...
Great little teardown!
Great to see you back. :-)
Missed your videos, Sir :)
Im developing many phosphorplates daily this way on a different device. And had a small peek inside them but not that detailed. Very very interesting! Thanks! Ours has a rotating mirror wich rotates quite fast as I can hear it. Its also possible to develop bigger plates that way or multiple at the same time cause the scan area is bigger. Makes me curious how it catches the light from the plate back. Besides that the plates itself are light sensitive. The scanner is too. Once the cover is only took of a very tiny bit it shows an error. Thanks for this teardown!
awesome a new video finaly what have you been upto mike
Nicely engineered machine. I was particularly surprised to see the fibre op feed. Not a fan of the outsides but as with all good things the inside is where you find the magic! Not at all like almost everything I own... ;-)
How quickly did it scan? did it blur a photo while moving?
Did you put the pspix back together again, is it working again?
WinCE embedded?
4:55 how did you enter the diagnostics screen? By just removing the casing?
awwww shit another mikeselectricstuff video!
How do I calibrate the screen ( PSPIX) ? It's not responding well to touch.
At my dentist they have just a little thick black plate you take in your mouth and some X-rays from the other side so have they a image on the computer screen the next second. Many many years before that they used ordinary cassettes they hade to develop but I dont know what machines was used for that but the cassettes were a bit bigger then these so something else I guess.
I was hoping to see what would happen if you plugged that usb connector into a computer
That is indeed very small photomultiplier tube. It looks they are not that uncommon, but the last time I used photomultiplier tube it was like 10 time the size of this one (but surely it was higher gain, sensitivity and efficiency).
This is only 2-3 years old and already being sent for recycling? Curious what the original cost was.
Most likely was replaced because whoever was using it got tired of that dicky touch screen.
I recently got an X-RAY and they used a simular machine
I would suspect the MEMS devices is how the magnetic encoder works. High quolity mecanical mecks are great for robotics projects.
yussssss MIKEISBACK
woohoo summer is over and mike is out of beer!
9:41 clip is duplicated (this is the 2nd of the one before it)
thought i was having a deja-vu
The laser assembly appears to be milled billet stainless steel. It would have been easier and cheaper to use aluminium, but it has such a high coefficient of thermal expansion that it would too easily throw out the beam. As you said; built to a spec, not a price.
Apart from being milled aluminium, you are correct.
They are still in use. These small frame images need a lot less radiation than the panoramic/ct style ones. There are also fully digital imaging plates that you stick in your mouth, but they are bulkier and more expensive. Especially if you have patients that like to bite them :)
Another advantage is that you can get different sizes of cards for cheap.
Yeah my dentist used a kodac system which consisted of this cmos sensor and a xray sinseliser that excites with xrays.
It also has shielded dongle containing flash memory which it reads out over USB 2 pretty neat unit. How ever they switched to this system. He still calls digital but its not really.
There's a few interesting repair videos of these kodac systems on youtube. The flex tends brakes on them.
Any thoughts on why they’d use a photomultiplier instead of a ccd sensor or the like?
Sensitivity
mikeselectricstuff Interesting, didn’t realize that there is still an advantage. This calls for some research 👍
I got scans of my feet at a medical clinic that used something like this. I imagine the cost of a direct read sensor goes up fast as the size increases.
In the 50s you could get an X-ray of your feet in a shoe shop!
Mike or anyone else, do you know what the name is for the downwards facing opto sensors shown at 15:41? They seem perfect for something I'm doing right now, but I can't find them online.
Seems to be a reverse mount gullwing photodetector similar to this one: www.vishay.com/photo-detectors/list/product-81128/
The dentist I go to still uses film.
Considering that a decent RVG sensor is around $3K new,these things are pretty obsolete.
I use a chemical method called hot processing so I get an image in one minute sharp so no need for digital,for now.
please explain what this "hot method" is ... manual development? or perhaps dry film development
Hmm that mems might be a clock instead of an accelerometer. I've not finished the video yet, mind you.
My dentist is still on film
Thats not nessecarily a bad thing, better he has film than a bad digital machine. Quality can be muuuuch better. The true benefits come with dvt imaging wich is basically a simple CT scan.
why the ;-)
That makes me believe it's not 'OK' and that diagnostic program is just out to fool me
some of this weirdly reminds me of a virtual-boy.
Wisdom teeth removal with x ray power beam
We have problem erro 44.43 for PSPIX 2 what is the cause just new both few month ago
Photomultipliers vacuum tubes are actually used in fluorescence microscopes, to target some bioluminescence proteins.
I believe that solid state photomultipliers doesn't exist.
Avalanche photodiodes are sometimes used, and there are also other exotic semiconductors like EMCCDs that can do similar low-light detection
@@mikeselectricstuff Thanks for knowledge!
Maybe I am wrong, I'm using my memory now, but the reason behind the modern use of photomultipliers instead of photoavalanche diodes not is that he photomultipliers can almost detect single photons?
@@eduardoanonimo3031 both PMTs and semiconductor detectors can detect single photons. Semiconductor detectors usually require cryocooling to work properly though. If you need a large detector, have volume to spare in your device, and cryocooling isn't an option PMTs have the advantage. For high density arrays, and when you need to make things as small as possible, semiconductors rule.
Robert Szasz Thanks bro! Seems that I'm outdated.
Solid state photomultipliers do exist. They're called... well, quite literally, SiPMs. They consist of tens of thousands of avalanche photodiodes(or SPADs, even) connected in parallel(through caps) on a single die.
A nice advantage of SiPMs is that they only need ~25-40V to operate, at negligible currents.
I use one made by SensL(now ONSemi) in a spectrometry project.
They can sometimes outperform vacuum PMTs in some applications, but they're generally absurdly expensive compared to PMTs in terms of area per dollar.
A 6x6mm SiPM is ~$100-150. Scales in volume massively though, drops to
Aaah! I thought it was a X-RAYray machine! Not a scanner. Yes they still use normal film for xray. I was at the dentist last week. New machine doh, no more durrrr sound as they blast my chromosomes.
hi , thanks for your videos , do you know anything about error code 44 on acteon pspix 2?
Hello. Can we be in touch with you please
Two belts - for belt and braces? Go on - stick yer wally’s in it as we say in Glasgie! BTW you edited in the magnetic position sensor twice! (Or was it my imagination)?
I thought it was my imagination too, but actually it might not.