Toby Dog Hates Abby Dog
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- Опубліковано 21 тра 2023
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You've been always making the same mistake when you greet them, Toby comes up to you, you go to pet him, then Abby shoves her way in the middle and you reward her by petting her.
She's learned it's ok to be pushy, and Toby's learned to just give up on seeking attention since he just gets shoved off.
If you wanted to correct this, you needed to ignore Abby and refuse to cuddle her until Toby had had his share. Make her sit and wait. I know, it's really hard to ignore a cute puppy!
Exactly. I think this is a much better solution than to seperate the dogs. Something that'd also be unfair to Abby, since she seems to be a dog who needs more activity and mental stimulation. Something she'll get less of if kept in the upper pasture, further away from that.
Fully behind that. No ones fault just small things like this that can have a big impact
I agree
We also only see parts of how Morgan interacts with the peppers. It's easy to think A B or C needs to be done when we only have part of the information, whereas Morgan is on the farm and reacting to everything all the time. I don't think it'll be bad for the pups to be separated, especially if that means that Gold Shaw can get more guard dogs to pair up as the farm gets larger and larger.
That happened when I got my rescue dog. Every time I pet a cat, he's push the cat away so I would pet him. I thought he just wanted some comfort in a new place, but it kept happening every single time. He could be laying down somewhere, see me petting a cat and just lunge towards me.
I figured it won't stop by itself, so when he did it I raised my hands up and walked away. He got it after a few times and haven't done it with me since. He tries it with new guests though.
I'm wondering how the new barn construction lines up timewise with Toby's mood change. All the strangers in his territory and all the noise they're making could be stressing him.
this is actually likely a part of the issue new people being around can stress a dog out depending on the personality
Abby's "love me!!" personality definitely deals better with strangers.
@AG: Agree but also wondering if Toby's mood will change once 'his' birds are moved from the hoop house and free-ranging again? In other words; will be on guard 24-7 which he is use to doing and loves, regardless of Abby.
Good call. And this is the most likely culprit among other things. Dogs can change when there are surrounded by a lot of loud noises.
My dog changed when we had months worth of neighbors setting off fireworks… now they are stressed at random nights and these neighbors seem to know authorities so the illegal activity doesn’t count for them.
The change in their behavior at night is high panting and shaking.. while I try to play music for them.. but the fireworks leave them wrecked each time… and these neighbors are the kind to throw and call others a Karen for voicing their opinions or concerns about the loud noises… it’s given legit heart attacks in my neighborhood too. And I do think loud noises like building or explosives have a huge effect on dogs and their working habits.
Her change in behaviour started way earlier
I would suggest that you give Toby attention immediately when you enter the pen, especially when he is well behaving in front of Abby. It will encourage her to act more like Toby and make him feel more loved.
He should be showing preferences to the first dog all the time. Such as when he lets them into an area he is letting the 2nd dog through and that shouldn't be happening regularly.
I agree, while they’re together he needs to focus on Toby first to reinforce both that he is important and also that her pushy behavior will not be rewarded
Absolutely. My dogs are strictly companion animals, but the younger one is constantly pushy about who gets to sit in my lap. I do not allow this, and only occasionally let them both sit on me at once. Instead, I tell them, "this is Dia's time" and "this is Emmi's time" depending on who I choose.
A working breed of dog needs a job to be at their best. So separating Abbie and Toby to provide independence in their job needs sounds like a good solution for your farm needs. Abbie does best with the cattle and Toby does best with the poultry. It is a win win situation for both dogs and the running of your farm. Hope it works out for both dogs, especially Toby.
Abbie will probably be a little confused at first, but she’ll probably get used to it and start to enjoy hanging out with the cattle.
Especially, Abbie. ❤
Nothing like job security huh
I agree, that's a good way of handling it
I think toby dog needs to start his own family and abby dog doesn’t come into heat so he’s missing out on his masculinity of being the father of children.
So a couple of things. One, I'm definitely part of the "there's been a lot of changes in Toby's territory" group. You've built a new barn, brought in a new bull, brought in pigs who were loudly squealing for at least a few days as they trained to the wire. All of this new stimulation might be overwhelming Toby a bit. Secondly, I agree that Abby should be a cattle dog. That seems to be where she's most comfortable, however, I really feel like you need to put in somewhere in the middle where both dogs can still interact. They are a pack, so even though Toby seems "sad" to you, what he's really doing is he's being submissive to Abby. And losing that submissive pack partner could negatively affect Abby and make he less sure of herself, and it could make Toby more nervous, not having his more dominant partner around. They definitely don't hate each other. If they did, you wouldn't be able to give them unfettered access to one another. You're definitely over-anthropomorphizing a bit. For the sake of the other animals on your farm, yes, Toby should be with the birds, and Abby with the cattle. BUT for the sake of your dog pack, you definitely need to allow them somewhere to still intermingle. Even if it's just something you let them do while you're with them.
The dogs need a doggy door.
Totally agree
Perfectly said. I agree...Even just the landscape that Toby is used to guarding is looking different
I agree 💯. I feel like both dogs need access to each other at night too. They need to be backup for each other if there are any unfriendly visitors that make it past the fence.
I totally agree. Toby had been through a lot of changes and another big change which is separation from Abby can be absolutely counterproductive
I think it would be useful if he had more alone time with you, because she often pushes him back from you, but don't take her from him completely. They're a team, they definitely work as a team and if they hated each other, you would definitely notice it
As a long time owner of multiple dogs, it looks like Toby and Abby get along fine. Toby is older and may still have some long term issues related to the Lyme disease that slowed him down. Also just because Abby is pushy for attention doesn’t necessarily mean she is the Alpha. Hope it all works out, but I think the pups will miss one another
As someone who had Lyme disease,I agree. I still have long term effects from it.
No such thing as an alpha dog, that's an old myth.
@@ignightroad
Youre clueless.
@AlphaQHard The alpha theory [which came from the terms in wolf packs] have long since been disproven.
@@AlphaQHard no you are clueless. Hardly any animal have just one "alpha". If there is one alpha they're not pushy, they're usually very considerate and empathetic, like in chimps.
I think it's just because Toby is getting older. I've had six Italian Greyhounds in my life, in pairs, and when they hit the five-year-old mark, they start to become more subdued. Their lifespan is about 12-14 years.
Yes. I was also thinking it was just maturity.
my italian greyhound just had her 1st birthday in March!
This was my first thought too, dogs change in personality a bit as they age.
I do wonder if the Lyme disease could be playing a roll in Toby’s behavior. Something to keep in mind. But giving the dogs separate areas is worth a try. It’s not as though they can’t be put back together if it doesn’t seem to be working out.
This is my thought because dogs don’t typically feel the way humans do about interactions. They take their place in the pack hierarchy and typically continue to behave themselves. I’m thinking this is health related, despite the clean testing. Maybe the Lyme is causing a drop in energy or depression which isn’t uncommon for Lyme.
The drop in energy levels started with Lyme & since then Toby has never been the same. Prior to that he was just fine even with Abby around
But he also said he went to the vet and got the all clear
@@hkira1110 Long haul Lyme is like many other illnesses such as covid/flu/herpes/etc. The original disease doesn't show up in blood work, but it absolutely can be destructive on the person/dog that gets hit with said disease.
@@hkira1110 My dad had all the lymes symptoms, including tick bite marks. But the doctor still wanted him to do the blood bloodwork that can back negative. Even if we know he catched it - their nothing else than a lyme infected tick for causing that specific mark
I think moving Abby to cattle and pig duty and leaving Toby on poultry duty was a really good idea, and I was actually going to suggest the same thing! I had noticed that Toby looked more reserved and pushed aside by Abby for a while now. I was also actually a little worried about the safety of the cattle and pigs, especially any future newborn calves and new young pigs like you just brought to the farm, so I’m glad they are going to have their own dedicated protector, and Abby seems to excel with the large animals rather than small animal livestock. Toby and Abby’s individual temperaments just didn’t match and they didn’t make good partners.
In the future though, especially as the herds/flocks of livestock grow and expand to cover territory, I think it would be a good idea to try again with finding Toby and Abby ideal partners. It’s safer for both the livestock AND the dogs that they aren’t alone. I would really love to see Toby find an ideal, well-bred maremma female to sire puppies with; he really is a great specimen of the breed, and he would likely produce some great future livestock guardians if paired with an equally exceptional female. Livestock guardian dogs work more effectively in groups of 2 or more, but Abby and Toby just had such different temperaments that they didn’t mesh well, especially since Abby was always sketchy around Toby’s birds. I think Toby would do well with another maremma with a very similar temperament to himself, one who is calm, controlled, and laid back and can actually be a working partner to Toby.
I think Abby would do better paired with a male of a different livestock guardian dog breed; one of the more aggressive and assertive LGD breeds, such as maybe an Anatolian Shepherd or a Kangal, should be able to hold their own against Abby’s high energy and rambunctious temperament and not be pushed aside or upset by her behaviour. Toby is very reserved and calm, but I think Abby needs a dog with more energy to match hers and more assertiveness so they won’t let her drive them away from things like morning greetings. Especially since Abby will be working farther out on the pasture and away from the safety of the main farm hub, it’s a good idea to get her a partner to help protect her as well.
I totally agree
I HOPE MORGAN TAKES ALL THESE COMMENTS TO HEART
i think one easy thing you could do is ignore abby when she is being pushy, with you or toby or anyone. everytime she runs up to you and pushes toby out of the way, when you give her attention, even just a pat on the snout, you reinforce her behavior and also scold toby for being well behaved and timid. i think he craves time with you but every time you pet him or interact with him, abby comes between you two and demands your attention. now if you give in and pet her as well, again reinforcement of her dominating toby. toby is a very sensitive dog, he feels the full effect of that.
Toby could also be having some lingering effects from the Lyme last year. I have dealt with that in dogs before (my own dog, who is at my feet right now) still has ups and downs, and he did have a marked personality shift from it. I thought "oh, it's just him becoming more of a Lhasa" and no, it was the Lyme, because he had/has pain. Both me and him are chronic pain buddies and enjoy the heating pad way, way too much.
Yeah, I agree. One of my St Bernards was isolating herself acting weird. Exactly what she did when she tested for lymes last year. Acting very similar to Toby' demeanor. I got her back on the antibiotics for Lyme and a week later she started to get back to her normal self.
One of the reasons I love this channel is because you openly discuss what you perceive to be your own mistakes and wear your heart on your sleeve. Its admirable and incredible to watch the vulnberability you show, as well as the way you weave a narrative into said thought processes. Keep doing your thing Morgan
Give Toby Dog a bit of extra one-on-one time with you doing chores
Yep!!!
Maybe taking Toby out on walks all on the property by himself just with you might get him to bounce back and be happy. Maybe he just needs one on one time with you. That sometimes helps.
I remember Toby working on the fences with the cat lol Morgan was just taking a walk IMHO
2 things. 1. I hope this works out well for the both of them they deserve the best! 2. a helmet is useless if its not strapped on! ok. the parent in me has spoken. love these! also it has been noted, you weight loss. I hope you feel great!
I made a comment on the helmet already. As parent 😂. Not strapped is even worse than without any as it gives a false sense of security. He did loose weight and his face looks way healthier 👏👍
Kind of like upright position in an airplane.😅 sorry...lol
Morning Morgan! Just a few thoughts I'd mention.. when you're observing Toby's behavior, I do wonder if you're applying more human psychology than dog psychology. It's important to learn how to read and understand a dog's body language. If you are unsure what's going on, it might be helpful to have a professional who is knowledgeable in dog psychology to assess the situation and give pointers. Also, there's been a lot of changes to the farm lately that could cause changed in Toby's behavior, like construction on the new barn, and the pigs being a new animal. Also just like human mature and change... so do dog's. I have also noticed in videos that you sometimes tend to reward Abby's bad behavior, like petting her when she's in an excited state or is being attention seeking. Rewarding dog's with attention for unwanted behavior enforces those behaviors. Hope everything works out! 😊
Abby acts more like a herding dog than livestock guardian dog. She's always pacing and extremely watchful of the animals whereas Toby watches the fence and outside.
tbh, as a long time dog pack owner, I´d fear this idea could backfire, as you'd make both dogs unhappy with separating them. give them at least the chance to interact with each other during the night.
Felix - that occured to me as well. As important as having their own space, and their own one-on-one time with Morgan, they need time in each others' presence as well. They are part of each other's life and they would probably miss the smell of each other. Just a thought of a "wannabe dog"....
Plus there's so many life skills and job skills that Abby still needs to learn from Toby.
@@rustyhowe3907 Rusty - you are so right - she needs to learn from a good dog like Toby, things that a "person" couldn't teach.
@@deannamunro8148 Exactly.
I think perhaps that all of us who have watched your channel for a long time (I started before Toby arrived) have noticed that he's been gradually getting less 'happy go lucky'. I assume you've checked the Lyme disease situation(I believe that depression can be a symptom?)
Personally I think you're right that Toby misses his time with you. Abby will ram her head under your hand almost every time you go to pet Toby!
Hopefully your solution will work........... though I do wonder what you'll do when the grazing season is over, and both dogs are back 'at home'?
Honestly from the start when you got the cattle and Abby I thought her calling was way more large livestock minded. I feel like she'll be better our there with them than with Toby who seems to be more of a "at his own pace" type or dog. Since they will still be able to communicate via smell, vocalization and probably still sight I wouldn't be too worried.
I feel Like Abby is deffo more of a people pleaser type dog compared to Toby and more of an attention seeker (not in a bad way) I think having them in different pastures, doing different Jobs is a great idea for Toby for sure. I would just make sure to also Monitor Abbys behavior when it's done because she does seem to be attached to Tobby more than the other way around. In general it's Definitely worth a shot in my opinion and a good idea! It'd just be sad to have Toby perk up because of the split, but then have Abby be depressed, but I believe you got a good eye on them!
I honestly think Toby is the "human is happy I am happy I will do as you say but I dont want to please you" kinda dog
He deffintly enjoys it when he sees that his human is happy
I think you’re doing what you find best 👏 You know the dogs and handle things well. But don’t underestimate what Lyme Disease can do. Poor Toby! Tests are often wrong or not sensitive enough in my opinion
Thinking the same. Bloods tests can not detect symptoms like pain or fatigue.
Exactly. What we see from these vids is that Toby became quieter with the onset of the disease. Anyways, Dogs are social animals so Abby's presence should not make such a drastic change in Toby's behavior . It could be something else . Could be even food. Or simply boredom . Not that Toby was ever that playful
Definitely??
To help out, pay more attention to especially Toby! He is smart and knows what you really think and the way you behave with him and Abby! Give him some extra Love.😊🐶
I think this is a good thing to try. It might be a misstep, but it's one you can easily take back if it turns out to not be the thing. My dogs aren't super close, but they are good at giving each other space. So most of the time they just ignore each other, and have separate human interactions. I think Abby doesn't understand personal space at all, or sharing attention. My only suggestion is that either way, make some dedicated time for both dogs going forward, just like Randy gets a morning walk, each of the dogs gets individual dedicated Morgan play, brush and cuddle time where they get 100% of your attention.
We tried for years to get our two personality divergent dogs to get along and the best thing turned out to be rehoming one of the dogs. They are both super amazing dogs, and they are even more amazing now that they aren't stressing each other out.
Hopefully the pasture separation does it for you.
Pablo the Night Supervisor supervising the doggos.
Toby looks like he feels that you are not paying him as much attention as before.
That's what viewers are made to believe from the vid. But then he knows best coz he is on the farm.
Abby’s temperament is more suited for a house pet than a farm dog tbh. They are both cute but Toby’s layback personality is my favorite 😍
Barn cats watching this like 😏
They are the ones that probably put this whole thing in to motion.
Probably things that you have heard before but please think about Not separating your dogs. LGD work best in pairs. There is SO much else going on at your farm that could be the culprit. Toby will get his poultry back soon and the barn will be finished.
Just a thought - have you ever offered Toby a run beside your bike?
When you bring a young dog into a family and you already have a dog that is established, the older dog feels left out. I did this with my dog. I just lost her on May 2th 2023 😥 she was my best friend. I took her in to get her teeth cleaned and the vet called and said that her heart stopped. 😭
Oh, that's so sad, you didn't know that would be your last goodbye! I'm sorry for your loss.
@@theabristlebroom4378 I lost my best friend 😥 more than anybody will understand.. clean your dogs teeth. Don't let the vet do it
With Abbie being that far from the house potentially, I would consider a gps tracker just in case.
It will be interesting to see what happens once they're apart. I suspect Toby won't care whilst Abby won't be so happy. Her gregarious and demanding nature might see her bored. It's going to be interesting finding out. 😊
Toby is a mature dog. My maremma mix became less affectionate when she matured. She still would greet me if I went out without her but cuddle time was usually in the evening when kids went to bed and we would relax in front of TV.
I personally would not separate them but would take Toby with you for adventures outside of the fenced 10 acres. You should have taken him on walk since he was a pup. Their minds are stimulated by all the different smells in new places and they get exercise and they build confidence. Taking him on walks would not limit his ability to guard.
Maremmas and other LGDs don't eat much. My dog sometimes in summers especially skipped meals. Like I said he is mature and not developing like Abby so he doesn't need that much food. Also natural way for let's say wolfs would be to go out, hunt and then eat. So walks might help with that too. Take him out to release some energy then feed when you come back.
Don't understand why both dogs can't accompany him at the same time.
@Vesny86 This is my thought also. Abby comes back smelling like the field that she's been running in, and tells him all about it. Toby wants to go running and roll in the field also!
@@nouvel0001 Maybe because Toby doesn't like to "go on adventures". He likes to stay with the poultry and protects them, greet the cattle from time to time and watch over his place. He was never as enthusiastic as Abby was if it comes to running around and explore.
@@ladyreddot that's why I say he should have took him out from the start. It's a good bonding experience plus he'd build up confidence. It can still be done. Sometimes being a good owner is to push your dog to be better. I know he is not comfortable. We see it every time he takes him to the vet or the groomer. But animals are best at what they do most. And right now the most is beeing inside inclosure with birds. Taking him up to the upper pasture would be a nice start. He will never be like Abby but he can improve.
@@nouvel0001 I assume Tobby doesn't want to go. But Morgan is in charge. He should put a leash on him and take him too. Maybe pack some really tasty treats that he only gets outside of the 10 acre inclosure for some positive reinforcement. Repeat for however long he needs to get comfortable and soon he'd be going with them without a leash.
We do see the kind of communication between you and Toby for a long time. You used to have some time to build the relationship with Toby. Well, relationship is something interactive. So, it is changing.
Abby's coming into her adulthood, losing her puppy impulsiveness and the pair of them are setting the foundation of being a working dog TEAM together. Toby isn't sad :) A lot is changing for him all at one time including losing access to the field with the pond. His territory has shifted, there's a barn being constructed, he's adapting to the sight, scent, and sounds of these new pigs, and Abby and Toby are working on their own thing, which comes with a lot of time. I can almost guarantee that if you separate the two of them, all you'll do is add another layer of stress onto Toby with another new thing that he isn't sure what to do with and he'll likely spend a lot of time looking for Abby instead of his usual routine and vice versa.
Spending time with Abby is great and is something you should do. Also, time some time each day with Toby outside of Abby and enough away from her that she's not within view. You don't even have to spend equal time (because dogs have no real concept of it), and establish some kind of daily routine with the two of them separately and then also with the two of them together. Even if its a perimeter walk every morning and evening with the two trailing with you, spending time brushing Toby, and doing fence chores with Abby.
I agree that separating the dogs to separate areas and functions is a good idea for now. Toby is stressed enough with all the strangers and activity right now, without having Abby constantly in his face. This will also help with maturing Abby into a more responsible guardian position. The only downside, is that neither dog will have a back-up there to help in trouble, Abby may be lured out by a pack and overwhelmed. But that is a risk to take. Not all dogs are like Casper, who went Charles Bronson style "Death Wish" on a pack of coyotes to hunt down and eradicate every last mauraderer in the bunch. But Abby might just have it in her, if she has the opportunity to develop a strong protector bond on her own. I think this is the only element that is really missing here. She gets to play at being fierce, while leaving the real work to Toby, and getting in his way. No wonder he is feeling frustrated!
I’m not a farm professional but the way you take on the blame but also think of your dogs so much and can tell when one may feel down really speaks to how loving and caring you are and aware of your dogs.
From what I can see in the video, it just looks like he’s deferring to the female dog, and he’s maturing.
There’s nothing unusual about an actual working dog assuming a more serious demeanor as it matures.
Being very deliberate in desensitizing Abby and the bull to one another seems wise, or Abby could get seriously hurt.
It might just be that he’s getting older. At around four years most dogs mellow out considerably, then again at around the age of ten. Toby’s a good boy, and a lot has been happening around his farm that he’s been looking after. Abby has the advantage of being young and more adaptable to change. Toby just needs more time and a little more love. The same thing will happen with Abby when she reaches four, it’ll probably just look different. Toby is always super stressed when he’s away from his herd and Abby is a part of that herd, and now that he’s finally stopped maturing for the time being he’s got a big task ahead of him. Hopefully separating Abby will give Toby the break he needs, and Abby will get some of the independence that Toby had to have as an only child.
As the owner of two dogs who don't play together and can be rather different(my youngest is pushy and rather 'mememe', like Abby might be. I don't think it's right to seperate your dogs. A better solution would be to make sure that both dogs get attention, some alone time going around with you, and so on. Because even if they're not great friends, they can still like having another dog around and so on.
Doing exclusive things with each of them is a good idea. But once you are away / not interfering, they need the ability to come together. You don’t want lonely dogs.
Let my preface this by saying I never owned dogs, but just want to share something I've been noticing as a viewer
Even I noticed a shift in his personality as a viewer a month or two ago when I started watching the channel again. Before Abby, he would always come up to you for cuddles in the morning, but now he goes straight to marking his territory. And he's giving you two a lot more space in general. It just looks like he feels like a third wheel here at this point and sometimes he looks hurt by all of it lol. I was contemplating if I should make a comment about this and you giving him not enough attention, but figured like, "I only see this short video every couple of days. What do I know how much attention he actually gives him."
Or even when you are giving him pets and all, she's always there trying to get pet too, trying to get all the attention.
Anyway, that's all.
Same. I thought he seemed way sadder than normal
I think this is spot on
I've also noticed that he always pets her first. Meaning she gets the attention and not him
He’s behaving like an adult dog.
The sadness you’re perceiving is your own that he’s not behaving as a puppy. I’m not attacking you. I feel it too, with Toby, my own dog, and the ones I train.
having the same observation. Toby has more of a cat personality, calm and stoic, hence was accepted so well by Pablo. Abby with her ADHD personality needs constant action and stimulation. For someone as calm as Toby, being with her 24h is simply tiring. Maybe a lot of it is projecting my own human feelings onto Toby but I think you are doing well by separating them, simply to try and see if any shift in Toby's behaviour appears.
Pack language of who is the leader is sent by the human to their dogs. Who you feed first is the leader, who goes in & out of gates & doors is the leader, who crawls in your lap first & gets petted first is the important dog. You constantly send the message to Toby that he is no longer important to you. If you feed him first, let him entirely out the gate first, & give him attention first this sad I'm valueless to you feeling should go away. He is the most important working dog you have, face it Abby is a pet.
Agree totally to this
Agree. Morgan, what needs to change is not Abby's location but how YOU interact with Toby. What did your trainer and your vet say about separating them? I could see separating them for one on one time and for different jobs but I think the change you are contemplating is going to stress Toby out even more. Particularly if you don't start treating him as the one fed first, the one greeted first, etc. Paying less attention to Abby, esp when she acts poorly, pushes, etc will also help her behavior overall.
Its crazy the best answer has so few likes.
Completely agree with this Abby isn’t a bad dog just isn’t a good livestock guardian dog. I have a male and female livestock guardian dog and it’s the same way but I treat the one that’s actually a good worker and not a pet with more respect when it comes to his job
Sounds like a well thought out plan.
I love the respect you show each animals different personalities ❤️ your developing Abby's potential growth as a different version of gaurdian dog. Kinda like a parent encouraging their kids to explore different interest😊
I have a similar experience with my dogs, our dog Shyla was the first dog in the house and all our and my attention has gone to her, raising, training and just her being our top priority.
When we got our other dog Bentley we needed to give him attention as well, though at the time the attention we gave the dogs was around the same but as time went on Bentley started developing more behavioral issues, becoming more dominant/aggressive and had a way higher demand for exercise and attention than our low energy shy Shyla.
I had to prioritize him, and some days I do have to take them on walks separately just so I can focus on one dog, even when Shyla wants to go I have to take Bentley instead.
And what I found was Shyla has become more reserved around me and less playful, she used to always want to cuddle and be by me. Yes she is low energy and matured more tho, her not wanting to be by me as often was definitely concerning.
Back to current time, she has opened up alot more recent and is actively seeking to be by me, cuddle and scratches. *What has really helped is making time for her, if it's going on solo walks, training, calling her name, scratches, etc.* Just things where you can show them you know they're there and put some effort into making time to help rebuild that relationship.
I was wondering why you never put a camera in the doghouse to see If maybe Abby was getting too much in Toby's space when they were both in there.
I think you are right. Toby is a mature dog and Abby is like a bothersome sister who is always seeking attention. It’s a competition for your attention.
Morgan we can easily see in this video from the summer clothing you have lost a lot of weight, from the city desk body to the farmer's active body very nice to see, looking healthy.
The other way around, he was slimmer in the city and got fat after being on the farm surrounded by protein all day lol, I had noticed some weight loss a few videos ago and so its good to see it continuing as its really unhealthy to be obese, especially as you're getting older
I was coming in here just to say this ☝️. You’re doing a great job on your healthy habits. It’s showing. But how are you on the inside cause that’s what’ll ultimately drive what your outside will look like. Best of wishes…
The idea of giving her a job is a good one, but the idea of separating her from Toby (and physically from your home) is not. She is a typical gregarious dog which needs company and guidance. If you ever separate them make sure to evaluate the outcome of such choice from the very first days. In my opinion, it may turn out to be deleterious for both dogs. On the contrary, I agreed with the people here who adviced you to have more quality and exclusive time with Toby. Anyway, best luck to all of you, dear friends.
I agree a lot with this. Like you said, Abby isn't a dog who'll do well with being seperated and put further away from most of the farm. She needs more to do, in training and activity, not to be pushed away. And, I think, he should consider if Abby is really the right dog for the farm, and if she'd do better with someone who can give her more training, etc. Sometimes the responsible thing to do is to rehome a working dog when it doesn't work out as well as hoped.
Abby really seems to enjoy the upper pasture. The only thing you can do is try it for awhile and see how it works out. Maybe
You can put cameras in the upper pasture to
Help keep an eye on Abby when are at home.
Dogs are pack animals and you may find they both may change their behavior because you separated them. I would spend more time with Toby and play with him. You are part of the pack and you are the alpha and you will raise him in status by doing that. I don't feel keeping them apart will be effective, We will see. Staying tuned in.
I grew up with two dogs, a Maremma-german shepherd mix and a German shepherd, their job was similar to Toby and Abby's job except they were protecting the property from the wild boars in central Italy. The Maremma mix dog (Igor) had a similar personality to Toby, very chilled and laid back whilst the German shepherd dog (Max) was like Abby and very much wanted to be around people. Both dogs needed their own space (their territory) but they loved spending time together. Max would commonly spend time around the house while Igor liked to relax on the periphery. In either case, I think separating the two dogs will do a lot of good things:
First, it will give them space and allow you to give either of them the appropriate amount of attention,
Second, Toby will have the space to come to you in his time and communicate his needs (whether that be cuddling pets or just spending time around you like the old times),
Third, it will give a chance for both dogs to miss each other which in turn perhaps next time they aren't separated they'll treasure their time together more.
The only thing is that perhaps if both Abby and Toby came to the farm at the same time as puppies they would have developed a sibling-level companionship, whilst Toby might think that every since Abby came to the farm that he's had to give up a lot of his space and time with you and perhaps sees Abby as someone who takes the things that mean a lot to him away.
Hopefully, this helps!
Good luck!
Maybe Abby needs a job better suited to her personality. Then all three of you will be happy. Looks like Morgan is starting to do that
Balanced Dog trainer here ♡
I think this is a wonderful decision. Even small moments where Abby pushes Toby out of the way to gain your attention is a pushy, resource guarding-type behavior that many people with multi-dog households tend to ignore. The small moments as such, add up quickly and tend to end in a not-so-happy way. I think you are being very responsible by recognizing their needs and personalities. You absolutely COULD train Abby to stop being so pushy and to give Toby space but it's just that much more work for you to do with Abby on top of all you do with her on the daily. The independence will be a great thing for her & she clearly loves her cattle! No dog "needs" another dog. LGD's have their needs met on the daily & you do so much extra stuff with her that many farmers wouldn't think to do with their LGD whether it's having her run with you on the bike or do some simple basic commands. I'm excited to see an update video once they spend some time apart!
Yes, Toby needs more attention. 👍
Quick note about the video production: the hat mic is SO GOOD! Clear, focused sound. You've nailed it with that!
It’s Adobe Podcast AI that makes it sound like that. It’s good but sometimes makes things sound too perfect like he’s in a studio rather than an open field.
Been busy lately but I always log in the chanel to find new uploads ❤❤❤❤
Hi, Morgan. Great video. Putting Abby in the upper pasture with the cattle sounds like a great idea. I'm looking forward to future videos on that topic.
I’m glad to see that you’re working dogs mean a lot to you and your wife!! Each dog has there own loving personality! And I’m sure that Toby dog will do just fine ❤❤❤❤
Damn, someone is looking sporty! Anyone else seeing this? Mister Farmer is looking buff!
Yes! I've been saying this! Based on what you film, cattle seems to be her niche. I might also consult a professional canine behaviorist just to make sure both are happy. Good job recognizing the problem and working to resolve it. I've realized from the start that they are different, but it makes me sad to see Toby sad.
I hope this means Pablo and Toby will be hanging out lots again. I don't know what it's like on that farm behind the scenes, but lately it feels like Toby is a guy who is unable to hang with his mates cause his new girlfriend wants to monopolize his time.
BINGO
Great work! I love how you are so attentive to your dogs’ needs and strengths and lean into them to give your dogs their best life. Separating them to their own jobs is a wonderful idea that will greatly benefit everyone
Animals have emotions (we're animals ourselves, after all) so you're not really anthropomorphizing Toby; you're observing his behavior and trying to interpret his feelings based on his actions, which is exactly what we do with other humans, too.
Maybe spending some one on one time with Toby (far enough away from Abby that he can't sense her presence) will help lift his mood.
Separating them will probably help, too, but I'd make sure to socialize them together occasionally, to help maintain a healthy relationship between them and help maintain all the training you've put into her rambunctious behavior around the birds.
Good luck! 👍
You are getting so good at walking that bull! Way to go! You scared me to death the first time I saw you try and walk him like a dog. lol
I think moving her up the field completely might have negative effects on Abby, like what’s affecting Toby now. Maybe durning the day she’s at the top and nights back down together. They have to learn to coincide together.
Looking good Morgan!
I hope you are as healthy as you look right now.
👍
Your solution makes SO MUCH SENSE for both dogs 👍
As so many other commenters pointed out. Toby may just not deal with the stress of new as well as Abby girl does. He’s still a good boy. Some dogs react differently to stimuli around the area. I feel as others have also pointed out, I’m hoping you read there’s.
that the pigs, the workers the new things being brought in and the loud construction work noises as well as the squeals can have some mentally negative effects to any dogs behavior in their territory.
He may feel overwhelmed.
Some dogs are way more sensitive to loud bangs and noises than other dogs.
I happen to have two rescues heavily effected by loud bangs like fireworks that sometimes randomly go off at midnight thanks to some really loud obnoxious neighbors above the law in my area.
Stress can happen for a number of reasons as well.
I have noticed the change also. He seems sad. She does try to push him out of the way for affection.. always.
I already saw that coming. I am so glad you are so in tune with your animals. I love watching the harmony of your farm.
Your film editing is exquisitely humble which is charming.
Maybe when you move Abby she can get a invisible fence collar and Toby can go wherever he wants. Toby can go visit Abby and when he is tired of spending time with Abby, he can leave but Abby can't follow.
And if she needs to retreat due to a possible predator ambush, or back up Toby, she gets juiced? Great thinking.
@lillyess385 , they haven't or he hasn't mentioned any problems with any animals jumping over the electric fence. Since Toby been around.
9:30 your video gives you the hint you need as it cuts from sad Toby time to happy Abby chasing solo time, do what you're doing with Abby with Toby. I know hes attached to the bird range but I'm sure he would love to mark all the way around the fence if he could. Its about finding those bonding moments again, you spend more time with cows, pigs and Abby now and so even being in range of Toby has reduced, just spend time with him and you'll get the answers you need
Love the reflections. This youtube channel, I think, helps your farm grow in a very conscious way.
I have GSDs and I agree about the comments that dogs do get jealous and they do want your attention. Maybe switch by bringing Toby sometimes as he may be feeling like you're favoring her over him by spending more time with her (in addition to her getting all the attention by being pushy). I also agree it's super important to ignore the pushy dog and give attention/affection to Toby first. It will help immensely.
My mom calls what your dogs are going through 2nd dog syndrome. I like your reasoning behind separating Toby and Abby. I think it will get Abby into her livestock guardian dog head space. She really has come a long way from getting over excited by "her birds" and un-protecting them, if you get my meaning. I'm here for this experiment!
This is a perfect solution for your LGD's. Abby is much more reliable with the cattle so protecting the cattle is where she needs to be. Your cattle will be in a far pasture and must have a LGD with them. I have also seen a difference in Toby. Abby pushes him out of the way and demands all of your attention and Toby will move back and have the saddest look. They each have jobs on the farm and your job is to manage their training and their physical health as well as their mental health. You're doing a great job with them and I certainly understand that you need to do what's best for your farm animals. Take care. 🤗
Toby and Abby are wonderful dogs they seem to be happy and they are really. Smart
Impressive audio Morgan. Loving that mic setup. Well done man!!
Abby is really close to Sookies' age (20mos). Sookie has so much energy that she drives me crazy. She bugs me persistently. She's an attention succubus.
Abby, when you're not around, could be bugging Toby..
Sookie is young like Abby they are pain in the keister.. Since Toby is so laid back, she very well could be challenging for Alpha. Wanting to play! Toby just might be tired of it, so he withdraws. Sookie on Alert will be this mama bear to protect me. You know Morgan, she is just displaying young female behavior. Giving her her own space, just maybe the ticket! I know it works with Sookies until she's bored 🙄
You won't know how she'll react until you give her her own job.
Good luck!
🙋🏼♀️🐕
Morgan you lost so much weight, it suits you so well!!!
first off you are looking great. Remember they are working dogs not pets and you are the pack leader. Toby's recent battle with lime disease could be playing a part of his behavior change as well as the warmer temps and his coat not shedding fast enough
I noticed a lot of regular viewers mentioned lymes, and honestly when I was watching before reading comments wondering if he was dealing with lymes. Might want to talk to a professional animal communicator and see if they could give you some insights. It’s amazing how much they can communicate to someone who is trained and can even say what they need. My last dog and I greatly benefited from the help of one. It was priceless to hear her tell me that Tulip mentioned a vision board I had and gave instructions to better my life as well. It’s a true gift to have animals in our lives, animal communicators helps keep things running smoothly
I hope Toby and Abby still daily interaction with each other.
Long text alert 3:51 DAMN STRAIGHT lol, Abby has always butted her nose in while you're giving attention to Toby and you've always given her the reward of that attention, so she always continued to do it and as a result its probably affected Toby just like it affects every first born child who goes through it. Then shes always got that solo time with you out with the cows and at the back of the farm chasing you around on your vehicles.
Toby's not an idiot, he'll be paying a visit to the kitchen to pop some snow cone flavouring in your water as payback but jokes aside I think you're not telling us everything which is your prerogative, its obvious Abby isn't growing out of her play/chase issues and so separating her from the area of the farm that encourages her to misbehave is obviously a solution.
I assume you're going to use a boundary shock collar for Abby so if she goes past the top line of trees its an auto sap and she'll soon learn, but I would hope you're going to fence it in with sturdy materials like the perimeter and gate it up as it'll serve you for future use when it comes to expansion that you have planned and down the road over the years, you need breaker points for when things go wrong and the top of the orchard would be the spot to make one, its not like you're short of trees for the wood and I'm surprised you haven't taken advantage of it with getting your own saw mill set up and selling sustainable planks etc locally while saving enough wood and earning some money to replace the barn.
Good luck Morgan, seems some big changes and some hard choices ahead
Oh another thing I just remembered, the first few nights might go very poorly, Abby really defers to Tobys judgement when it comes down to what to do in situations that require a guard dog to fly the farms colours into action. Every video I saw showed her not really sure what the fuss was and constantly looking back and forwards to you and Toby for guidance, obviously she'll get used to it, but those first few nights without Toby might make her panic or maybe react in a way that you might otherwise not want, it could be worth you staying up there with her for the first 2 nights so shes supported through the initial loss of Tobys protection mode and company
Shock collar? That's barbaric
You know I thought this would be a better setup long ago, and I know it won't be perfect but I think it's a great choice you're making out of care for both of your dogs. Can't wait to see how things go!
This was kind of what I had thought would happen. Seems like the best for both dogs.
Just to rule out with all the bad on the injections...blood work? Rule out health. Switch it around take Toby with you on long bike rides, he is needing you and him time. He doesn't need to be 2nd ...he is first.
You have had a lot of changes on the farm in the past year. Almost each of those changes resulted in Toby getting less attention. All the training Abby needed, plus you seem to reward her for misbehaving by petting her when she jumps or is needy (I know you're continuing to work on it, no one is perfect). Toby is a pretty smart dog and sees the patterns, and might be depressed.
I'm not saying you shouldn't take Abby with you on extra chores, but you shouldn't leave Toby behind if he wants to come with you. Plus more exercise would be good for him. Maybe sit down and brush him as a treat? He seemed to really like that.
i love your thought process
Love your understanding on potential strength
Personally this sounds like an excellent plan. I've often felt that Abby will never mature into her purpose because Toby does the guardian job quite well all by himself. But something I think you might be overlooking is that Toby is hitting middle age for his breed and will naturally become calmer and more mature. He's not necessarily depressed or annoyed by Abby...he's just left the last vestiges of puppyhood behind.
Lyme disease can have these issues. I knew a well-bred show German shepherd that loved other dogs until he got Lyme. His first symptom of Lyme was trying to fight other dogs, which he never did before. Once he got it under control, he was fine.
Morgan I have not watched the channel in about a year and you are looking amazing man! Good job on the weight loss!
I love how tuned into your animals you are. It's beautiful to see.
I think you are giving both dogs the one thing they love the most. To be with their favorite animals. Well done, Morgan!!
If needed you can always get other dogs as the farm expands, I would recommend getting neutered siblings maybe as they can bond well as a duo. Setting up Territories is also very healthy as long as all the dogs can still be friendly if they were to mix. Including a cat territory picture would be cool to see as well, especially with the addition of the new barn.
Morgan, you are looking good! I have noticed the weight loss, although I never had an opinion on your weight or appearance. I adore you as your are. The weight loss is just a boost. I love your UA-cam site and it just makes me happy to watch your farm.
Great job bein attentive ❤