Predestination, control, free will and the illusion of time
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Gary Weber and Rich Doyle discuss predestination, the illusion of control, free will and the illusion of time. The possibility of the Universal Field being the all-pervasive, matter-creating Higgs field is discussed as well as whether it might be "self-aware". Living "in the now" realizing that "everything is One" removes the sense of time, control, free will or predestination.
A complete transcription of this dialogue is available in "Into the Stillness: Dialogues on Awakening Beyond Thought" available on amazon.com and non-dualitypress.org in hardcopy and kindle versions.
An .mp3 of this dialogue is @ happiness-beyon...
The blogposts "i get "no free will" intellectually but can't make it real" @ preview.tinyurl..., and "You say "we have no free will" and we're "not in control"...is that experience, science or philosophy?" @ preview.tinyurl... discuss this as well.
The videos "Everything is predetermined: Einstein and Ramana Maharshi on free will", "You are not in control" and "Intelligent Choice is Impossible" also discuss these issues.
The blogpost "The impossibility of 'free will'...scientifically and logically" @ happinessbeyond... gives the latest science.
Useful links for more information:
Gary Weber
Website: www.happiness-b...
Blog: happinessbeyond...
UA-cam Channel: / gudakesha7
MP3 Downloads: happiness-beyon...
Soundcloud Channel: / gary_weber
Facebook: / gary.weber.528
See happiness-beyon... for more links to interviews and articles and information.
Books
1) Happiness Beyond Thought: A Practical Guide to Awakening
Free Scribd.com version: www.scribd.com/...
Paperback version available on www.amazon.com
2) Dancing Beyond Thought: Bhagavad Gita Verses and Dialogues on Awakening
Free version: happiness-beyon...
Amazon: www.amazon.com (Paperback & Kindle versions)
Video: • Dancing Beyond Thought...
3) Into the Stillness: Dialogues on Awakening Beyond Thought (with Rich Doyle)
New Harbinger Publications: www.newharbing...
Barnes and Noble: www.barnesandno...
Amazon: www.amazon.com (Paperback & Kindle versions)
4) Evolving Beyond Thought: Updating Your Brain's Software. Amazon paperback and free download @ www.scribd.com... . Blogpost @ happinessbeyond...
Panel Discussions
Science and Nonduality Conference 2013:
"Filling in the Details": • Filling In the Details...
"What is Enlightenment?": bcove.me/q81mq5iv
Interviews
BATGAP: batgap.com/gary...
Bloggingheads TV: bloggingheads.t...
Secular Buddhist: secularbuddhism...
VoiceAmerica Business: www.voiceameric...
Rich Doyle
Website: mobiused.wordp...
Email: mobius@psu.edu
I see all of our lives as like the script of a play. The dialogue is there and all the actions no matter how insignificant. You cannot deviate from the script, it all happens just as it is written. Free will does not exist. There is the illusion that we are making choices, but it is just illusion. That script of destiny is all there is.
Hi Murray Silvey. Absolutely correct, it is all perfect just as it is. The great news, and surprise, IME, is that there is great joy and freedom from this understanding. One is relieved from concerns and memories about past or future "failures" or "bad deeds". It is all "out of our hands" and in the hands of something "greater", whatever you call it. One is free to be just "here" in this moment, w/o fear, regret, or desire, to be totally present with whatever unfolds, now, now, now...
Hi egodust11. Exactly. The important distinction is the one that you make, in realizing that our not having "free will" is NOT a bad, or sad thing. i was surprised, when the "I" fell away and i was left w/no other alternative, at how wonderful it really was to be "free FROM choice" and all that came along w/it. i could just let go of all of my past "failures", "sins", etc. as well as being all puffed about my "successes", "good deeds", etc. and just live "now, now, now" w/o those concerns.
Could you recommend ONE Video to explain this please
Please explain further or if you could recommend a video you have done that encompasses what you have said here
Thankyou
Hi Jason. Tks for the clarification. Agree on the second part, i.e. "the passage of time is just an illusion of human consciousness". we even know from our cog neuroscience what centers in the brain are responsible for creating the sense of a "self in time", and how when we deenergize them, we have a sense of living only in "now". IME, living continually "in the present" is qualitatively very different from the feel of the "past" and "future" which are clearly mental creations.
Hi Jason Barr. Interesting philosophy, only one among so very many attempts to "rescue" free will, but not correct. The cognitive neuroscience on free will being an illusion is rock solid; the only discussion that occurred at the recent Science and NonDuality conference in Doorn, the Netherlands, where i presented a paper and two panel discussions, is how to legally deal with that reality and institutionally tell folk that this is the case. It has big implications; it isn't going to go away.
Yet when I was young I had this odd dream of a totally unrecognizable event, that happened many years later in great detail.
Hi +Jim Mooney. Perhaps, but it isn't likely. Our ability to remember distant memories is very, very poor. Some highly-credible neuroscientists says that anything that is remembered from our childhood is incorrect. i have been in a "false memory" fMRI study, which proved that even over one day, our memories are faulty.
The brain doesn't put memory on a hard drive, but it is scattered all over the brain, and then rapidly recalled, with most, but not all of, the original characteristics intact. The more times it is recalled, the less likely it is to be true. The blogpost "Traumatic memories feel true, but are always changing" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/01/traumatic-memories-feel-true-but-are.html discusses how this is true even for the most traumatic events.
stillness
gary
Excellent video Gary and Rich, thank you, much appreciated. Your channel is quickly becoming one of my favorites. I enjoy and learn from your comments and analysis. Have a very nice and peaceful day my wise and gifted friends : )
Hi Honestmicky. A very nice and peaceful day to you as well. stillness
Hi Jesse. As i have very few thoughts, decisions occur "by themselves", as they apparently always have. If you watch carefully when a decision occurs, it is not a result of your self-referential narrative carefully weighing pros and cons and reaching a "logical" conclusion. A decision just arrives suddenly, and "you" make up reasons after the fact as to why that was decided. It is easier to see when you have no/few thoughts; the off-line "primary consciousness" makes the decision, not "you".
Hi Jason. The central tenet that you seem to miss is that there is no "me". With all of our best tools, we can find no central point that is fixed and constant as the agent; there is just no central locus for "meing". If you watch the brain patterns, the functioning is massively parallel and moving rapidly across the brain; there just is no "I" anywhere. That makes the discussion into "Who has the free will?" if there's no "I" there?
No problem. These are questions that others have asked, particularly those who have looked more deeply into the questions on "free will". stillness.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, it's appreciated.
Hi Jesse. Agree that if we define "universe" as what includes everything, there can be nothing "outside". However, the all-containing, omnipresent, "self-aware Universe" that some scientists postulate, solves many problems in contemporary physics like nonlocality, "observer" collapse of wave functions of elementary particles, and "synchronicities". Agree that time and "others" are constructs; we even know which brain centers create the illusions.
this is what i realized when i started meditation. life is moving as it should all else are mental noise
Hi gem villamin. Yes, it is obvious if one watches carefully.
This is a pervasive theme in this work that "none of these lives are under our control". If folk are interested, the playlist "Free Will, Control, Predetermination" @ ua-cam.com/play/PLuH37Fyz9VEOnY_lUcblS8aI0hF7oNMj6.html has 11 videos on the subject.
If you go my blog @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/ and put "predetermination" in the "search" box, you'll get detailed scientific discussion on the subject if one needs more convincing.
Many folk are afraid of not having "free will", and everything being "predetermined", but once it is clearly and deeply seen, it is enormously liberating...like having a stone taken off your back.
stillness
gary
Those guys make so much sense a they help other REALIZE THE FACT that there is NO SUCH THING as what people call Free-Will Choice - but the Will of God!!!
Hi truthadept. If you have no free will about what thoughts arise, why do you believe you have free will about the energy/thought that arises to "willfully choose" where attention is focused? Schwartz's position is one that Ramana told some folk early on, on their path as well. It depends on how "far along" you are. As you "progress" further, it is apparent, as Ramana also said, that everything is predetermined, even the smallest thing. See vid "Einstein and Ramana Maharshi on Free Will".
You don't need Free Will to be Free. You are Free because all These are You but not know it cuz believe you are the body. Body carries over you to You, again. Surely as long as your perception gets you further, you can see. The way out is in. Somehow life must turn you in. You then start realizing what's said. However it's apparently hard to see within when you are already happy or grasped to this distorted reality. But then again nothing wrong. You only go to realize and come back to the illusion. Now you know why and how to be happy. But when you are already happy, you don't need to know how and why. So no difference to the one who gains the knowledge vs the one who already lives as if. You learn all these, so action takes place and live it. Now, all these are thoughts on the hand of you. Being aware of these, gain proportionately the attitude of the maker. The Real is to lie and to lie is real. It's very important once compensate and find peace in opposites. Overcome/surpass duality. This what knowledge offers. You came aware of such knowledge. From the liar, the pretentious fake non real mind, you are told the Real. The way from which you are taught such a knowledge, how it happened, witness the means of life and its ways. Both true and false, lie and real, light and dark must be there for you to experience life. And follow your karma. No matter what, life will always be your supervisor and you obey to it, if you are the body. And of course feel you as body, match the circumstances. Accept and trust and patience. Not you the Doer to do or not do. Release from the bondages of attachment. If you are gonna be with less leg, capitulated... it is done. If you are gonna lose your mother, it shall. If are gonna be loved, earn money, good health or another, it's done. Accept it. Flow with life. If something annoys you, don't grasp from a thought telling you... I am not do, it is not right... do as it goes. It sounds like it's chaotic, you gonna be outlaw, put in jail or killed. As you believe, it means you become, basically you are for yourself. And bad things will happen so. But those beliefs etc etc are predermined. You stuck with those. Let them pass. Be aware and don't react. When it needs you to react, life will push you. When will? Everything will come towards you at the moment which will be perfect. Don't be afraid of good nor bad. You are the God of Creation of Sustain life and of Destruction. When you have to beat asses, it will get done. When you have to give love and care to someone, it will get done. But each time, you react in a thought with another thought, you create or destroy something else. From this body, you are conscious of many things. When this 'I maker doer' thought lessen/weaken you gain somewhat power. This freedom of free choice, it's de-attachment from this body's karmic reactions. But when you're attached to this detach empower, another 'I maker doer' thought is on again. All those described are under the umbrella of a great Power, already predetermined. The Free Will of choices, is somewhat Free Will but in whatever the Predermined Divine Will ordered. God gives you the choices God made for you as body to feel free to choose. Therefore duality exist. You have the Free Will that was given to you. To you by You.
Hi hurleyjc. Like you i believed that i had choices and free will and had made everything happen, as my religion had told me. Then i understood that the "I" is just a mental construction and it fell away. It was obvious then that free will, control and choice are, and always were, illusions. Our best cognitive neuroscience confirms that there is no "I" and no free will. "How you live your life is up to "God", not to you. i've been where you are; it isn't the answer. stillness
The description of the dance of serendipitous events that make up order really made things click for me. thank you
Hi BogdanIsMyNameo. Great that you found it so useful. If you look under "Show More" in any of my videos, you'll see links to all of my work, all free in some format. stillness
Hi aylin. Yes, exactly, but it is so hard for folk to see it so cleanly. In working w/folk, i point out that it is illogical to believe that there is "some" free will. If it were so, then the world would be in chaos, constantly, waiting for a few decisions to be made - it doesn't do that. i reject the "random" case as IME "life" is massively serendipitous and highly correlated, but out of my control or foreknowledge. Truly random in the Brownian sense would be total chaos. stillness.
I don't know why I'm stuck on the topic of free will at the moment? Maybe its predestined?
There seems to me a lot of issues not being addressed in these discussions. Like how can there be any karma if no one ever had any free will at any point?
I came up with a hypothesis that maybe we have free will in respect to are observation of our experience. In other words, not having control of anything that takes place, but having free will in how we see events and how the events are absorbed into our conciousness. In other words we might have some choice in wether we learn from a situation or not. It would explain the cyclical nature of experience, and how life seems to repeat itself until insight is made and a change of attitude is accepted.
but thoughts about learning/the impulse to do something differently from now on/finally being fed up with smth, whatever, are just arising out of nowhere without you choosing them, aren’t they ? i do think that this concept of karma and repeating cycles is true but only for a certain point of peoples soul evolution where they still think that they’re fully in control. it’s just part of the game of life but if you get to higher levels and awaken out of the game, it’s not relevant for you anymore :) you learned enough lessons to teach your subconscious to be a good person that has the right understanding of the world to serve it and now you can let go and let it all play out on its own ☺️😌
Hi Stories. The truth is that no one really knows "why" this happens. If She is everything, then one "rationale" is that She is a "self-learning, evolving" field and She is learning about how She functions and adapts in this continually changing environment in all Her many guises. Apparent precognition is fairly common. Even there, who believes these precognitions and acts and who doesn't is also arguably predetermined. stillness
A very difficult discussion to have but you both did very well. I wondered where creativity fell into any belief of total predestination, but I do believe in a limited ability to make my own choices in life. Another question would be; why are only a small number of us seeking to quiet our minds and install our true selves at the helm of our lives? As a child I imagined that we are all the equivalent of atoms, constituting a whole so great that we cannot see it in its entirety. Is is Cosmic Grace which causes us to seek? Thank you Gary for speaking on things I find difficult to discuss. This is a great conversation that could have gone on much longer!
Hi elmarko52. If there is any example of predestination/predetermination, then logically, everything must be predetermined. There cannot be one folk on the planet who has occasional choices and control, as then everyone in this massively-interconnected world would have to wait on his/her choice before they could do anything. Not going to happen...
It springs from Einstein's observation that what occurs is determined by "forces over which we have no control". If one pays attention to "their life" it is obvious that is true, even as we futilely attempt to control it, and consequently live in fear and anxiety as we know it's not working.
On "why there are only a small number of folk", that is a great, unanswerable question, but it is what it is. The Bhagavad Gita has several verses on the fact that it is so. If one buys into the concept of the Universal Field of Consciousness/She being an evolving field, as everything in it is evolving, it may be that if more folk were still and present, the opportunities for Her evolving would diminish.
your "install our true selves at the helm of our lives" is not what happens nor what this work is about. The path to persistent nonduality, logically, is one of total and complete surrender/letting go of the "I" and all of its attachments. Like it or not, believe it or not, She really is running everything and is everything and we're Her "evolutionary experiencing pods".
Trust this is useful.
Gary Weber thank you for your consideration of my questions and comments.
Can't get enough of Garry
Hi Stories. Just met a brilliant physicist friend in CA @ conference we were speaking at. he's a huge fan of "multiverses" theory. By his calculation, "everything" propogates both sides of every choice, every nanosecond. As there is a huge number of "things", the number of multiverses created since the Universe began is beyond comprehension. It solves some difficult problems in physics, but hardly "rescues" free will as we have no way to know how all the interacting universes work.
The notion of choice could just be the mind's way of presenting a situation but in an illusory fashion. Therefore, there really isn't choice as such but only one perceiving it as such. I also liked a metaphor given by Stephen Wolinsky who on one of his DVD's stated that all of us are carried slong in life by a massive oceanic wave to wherever it carries us(and in this metaphor he added that it would be to somewhere in Santa Cruz only because he lives there).
Hi kwixotic. There is some interesting neuroscience research on "choice" like the work @ Baylor by David Eagleman in the PBS series on "How our brain decides for us..." @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2016/01/how-our-brain-decides-for-us.html. Also the blogpost "Our 'choices' are random???...new research" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/07/our-choices-are-randomnew-research.html gives a really interesting possibility.
Hadn't heard Wolinsky's quote, but it's a good one.
stillness
Kwixotic, I agree. Maybe I should just post my paper here, might help clarify things:
We are constantly being conditioned in every way since conception. Our genetic inheritance and the countless epigenetic and other effects of environment ceaselessly affect us right up to, regarding the making of any choice, the very moment of becoming consciously aware of our decision. We cannot step out of our conditioning; we are an inseparable part of the universe. This is not in accord with the immediate experience of many of us, which is that we feel we are independent individuals. But this individualistic intuition is itself the result of long cultural conditioning.
If one protests, “Well I’m not a puppet, I'm free to change my mind at any time!”, yes, of course that may be, but the wish to change one’s mind, and whatever it is that is to be changed and changed to, are all also results of conditioning. We are free to make choices, within various physical or social restrictions, but the mental process is not free at all: it is a conditioned process, although unique to each person, and unpredictable to a smaller or greater extent. The impossibility of reliable predictability regarding the making of choices, because of the astronomical number of factors, helps create the illusion of free will, but one simply cannot have done anything else than what was done at the time. One can certainly make future changes, but what was done at a particular time was inevitable, a result of one’s total connection with the universe leading up to and at the very moment of decision. Because our will isn’t free doesn’t mean that our future is fixed or determined. Like the weather, there are too many variables to permit accurate prediction. There are philosophical arguments for and against determinism, but even if the future were determined in any cosmic sense, we humans are not privy to any “plan”, so the future seems wide open to us, or at the least, to most of us.
I experience life as “I” am making choices, but “I” is actually my conditioning/inseparability with universe, always “now”. In a sense we really are “one with the universe”. An alternative way to experience life is to simply be aware that choices are being made and that actions are being done. “I”, “my” and “me” are superimposed on experience, mental constructs added immediately, by powerful conditioning, after the ongoing conscious contact with whatever is sensed. These terms are convenient for communication but need not be identified with (There are Zen and Advaita sayings pointing to this, such as: Deeds are done but there is no doer; thoughts occur but there is no thinker.).
If we didn’t have a choice about our choice, how can we be morally judged for the attitude or action in question? No praise or blame for puppets! However, we must be accountable for our behaviors, and what we do can still be judged, relatively, as good or bad, loving or otherwise. Antisocial actions can still get one fined, ostracized, or jailed. Even though there may be no moral basis for judging behaviors, there remains a legal basis, to protect and maintain social order. Just because one now understands their behavior more clearly doesn’t mean they are not responsible for it (unless, as now, one is found to be mentally ill or impaired,etc.). A new understanding of behavior does not in any way justify unkind acts, but now society can protect itself in a more humane way, without the “righteous anger” that arises from the (false) belief that “He or she was free to make other choices; they didn’t have to do that awful thing”. Taking the rancor and drive for revenge out of being wronged/viewing antisocial behavior opens a way to more clear-headed ways of dealing with it.
Is there any reason to believe that the loss of (the illusion of) free will would lead to worse behavior? Why would truth make things worse? If one’s understanding of one’s own and others’ behavior were more clear, it could lead to better behavior. The level of anger in such a society would certainly be reduced by the absence of constant moral judging of one another, and that in itself could lead to more peacefulness.
There may always be criminals and psychopaths, but the rest of us could make wiser choices in legal actions regarding law breakers and the possibility (or not) of rehabilitating them. (Presently people freed from prison are seen, by some, as “having paid their debt to society”. But rapists and murderers are often freed only to rape and murder again, while many non-violent “drug offenders” may be held for many years, having done no harm to others, except through the eyes of authorities fearful of an unfounded “moral threat” to society. The “war on drugs” is a huge issue, and I don’t mean to address it here, mentioning it only as a passing reference to morality.)
Morality is different for different times and places. Like “free will”, on which it depends, it is an illusory concept. People can certainly reflect on their attitudes and behaviors if they wish to and make changes freely (again, depending on their particular conditioning, which includes genetics and all the known and unknown factors of their particular environment) but they cannot help doing what they do at any particular point in space-time.
I’m not much for beliefs, but I do believe that we could reasonably expect the emergence of a more humane society through the acceptance that “free will” is an illusion. At least there does not seem to be a reasonable basis for fear of that acceptance. Those who do accept it could soon realize that there is no basis for judgment in any hypothetical “afterlife”. What a relief to be rid of heaven and hell!
PS- The nature of subconscious processing underlying conscious awareness is being enthusiastically investigated by neuroscientists and appears to support the idea that free will is an illusion, but it is not essential in establishing illusoriness.
Neuroscience may also bring more light to the question whether there is any extracorporeal consciousness other than what is produced by brain activity, and the implied hypotheticals: “transcendent self”, “soul” and “afterlife”.
Hi hurleyjc. If you have free will and are in control of your life, how's that working out for you? If you look back at the biggest decision you made in your life, did you have control over everything that was there to be decided upon? When you (apparently) made your decision, did you know all that was going to happen with whichever choice you made? Did things happen after you made that choice exactly as you knew they would and did you make and control how all of them happened?
I think the issue is not really scientific but logical. Either all events have a cause (deterministic) or do not have a cause (random). Either case there is no free will
Gary Weber. If everything is predetermined. Who predetermined our lives?
Hi collin. The blogpost "The impossibility of 'free will'...scientifically and logically" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-impossibility-of-free.html goes through this in great detail.
Some simple questions can be helpful:
Do you consciously think up your thoughts, or do they just appear out of nowhere, unexpectedly?
Do you consciously think up what you say, or does it just manifest "all by itself"? When you "rehearse" what you're going to say when you meet someone, is that what comes out?
As far as "who" does this, it is like Einstein said when asked how he made his amazing discoveries:
"I claim credit for nothing. Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."
Trust this is useful.
stillness
Hi Stories. "Dreaming about the future", IME, is not useful. It is a distraction that keeps us from being "now, now, now". When you pray, or meditate, your perception of reality changes, which IS your reality. Go down a street 10X; it is seen differently each time. The terrible things must be predestined, along w/the good ones. 9/11 was predestined - good for some, terrible for others; we can't separate effects of events on many others years later. She is everything, good and terrible.
She as in the higgs field. Okay, so any tips on coping with a world in which, she doesn't seem to care if children are abused. Do you have any ideas about the goal of all this, Why it is happening? Could it be that it wants to experience everything, good and bad, and doesn't see right and wrong the way we do?
Hi Stories. i have many, many precogs myself, x/c any more they are more about the action to be taken, rather than what's going to happen, i.e. "turn left now", and there turns out to be an accident ahead. Clearly "something" knows what's going to happen and an action has been described to avoid a bad outcome. IME, however, whether or not i take that action varies, "out of my control", and depends on my state of consciousness, energy, etc. "out of my control", i.e. still no free will.
Hi Stories. No problem. youTube can get impossible to post, particularly recently. i "multi-posted" myself as i couldn't get any indication that the post had been made. As soon as i found it, i deleted the multiposts, so i wasn't spamming my own channel. stillness.
Neuroscience and a bit of self reflection show that we are ceaselessly being conditioned from the time of conception, right up to the moment of ‘making a decision’, any decision. Doesn’t that show that even the choice between a large cup or small cup is not free - although unpredictable to some extent? I experience life as ‘I’ making choices, but ‘I’ is really my conditioning ‘always now’. It seems to me that the unpredictability of life makes it seem that we have free will, that we experience the future as open, but in reality our lives are our conditioning unfolding, inseparable from the unfolding of the universe. This has implications regarding ‘morality’ that could make societies who understand this less angry and more compassionate, imo.
Hi Byron. Yes, precisely. The recent blogpost "There's no 'free will'...accept it, attack it, hide it, or ignore it?" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2016/09/theres-no-free-willaccept-it-attack-it.html goes through the latest neuroscience on this as well as presenting your argument that knowing there is no free will, for anyone, will make societies, and folk, less angry and more compassionate for other societies and individuals. While this understanding will challenge many institutions including the religions, criminal justice system, etc., it is the scientific reality and we need to get on with incorporating it into our society and lives. It isn't going to go away. stillness
Thanks so much for your work, Gary. You, Sam Harris, and a few others, are my fresh clear air in a sea of smog. Noam Chomsky is also a hero of mine, and I found it odd to watch him ridicule the position that will isn't free, on a youtube video. I guess most everyone has blind spots. Another great benefit of realizing that there is no free will or 'self' is forgiving ourselves [sic ] for our own past less-than-loving acts. And for the religiously inclined, the deconstruction of 'hell'. Cheers.
Hi Byron. Yes, as someone who came from a religious background based on blaming and shaming, it was such a relief to know that none of it could have been otherwise. As far as the deconstruction of 'hell' and 'heaven', if you get a chance, my friend, Bob Wright, in whose classes i taught @ Princeton, wrote a best selling nonfiction book "The Evolution of God", which traces the Abrahamic religions' development of the concept. stillness
Byron Varvarigos Did Noam Chomsky ridicule that? Most likely, he then buys into the "conventional" notion of a "person" being held accountable or responsible for his actions.
Kwixotic, Lack of free will doesn't mean we shouldn't be held accountable for our actions.Unkind or criminal acts are still unkind and criminal. But understanding that the perpetrator could not have done anything else takes away the 'righteous anger' or even hatred, and opens a path to more clear-headed ways of dealing with the problem. Like evaluating the perp's capacity for redemption/rehabilitation, and also being open to considering the conditions that produced the undesirable qualities in the perp. Hope that clarifies my comment. I wrote a 2-page paper on this topic but haven't posted it anywhere yet.
What happened that I'm just seeing this 5 years later👀 great content!
Hi Mindy Morningstar. Great that "the Universal Field of Consciousness" predetermined that you would find this work. It's easy to arrange as Her/Him/It is everything, everywhere. There are blogposts, books, articles, website, etc., all available free in some format, under "Show More" above. stillness
what if everything is illusion then there is no dance... like parallel universe
We can choose what we will do, but we cannot choose what we will choose.
It’s actually been proven in recent studies, 100% of the time, that are “choices” are made 6 to 8 seconds before we are consciously aware of them.
In the studies, researchers were able to accurately predict what a person was going to choose before they were consciously aware of it, 100% of the time. Once we become consciously aware that we’ve “made a choice” the ego takes it and claims it.
This has been great to watch! Thanks gentlemen!!!! Loved it :)
Hi Danny. Great that you found it useful. BTW if you look under the "About" under the vid, you will see links to blog, free books, interviews, website, etc. stillness
Hi Mr Weber, respectfully, I think you make an error of logic from 7 mins onward. The future does not exist until it becomes the present. A definition of the future is that which has not existed yet. Can you explain to me how anything can be set in stone in the future, when it does not exist? To reduce the argument further, by what mechanism is the Predestiner able to access the future (i.e. something that does not exist?)
What about heisenberg uncertainty principle
What about the mulitverse theory? Do you think it is possible that our "choices" create different universes which split off? And if the mulitverse theory ever proves to be correct would that rescue "free will" And then we become aware of it?
I dream about the future all the time, and so this subject is very interesting to me, I am not the only one, the is a well documented phenomenon, yet when I pray I can see my reality change, was I always meant to pray that prayer? And one time, just one time, I was able to change the outcome of one of my precog dreams, but even that was I guess because it was supposed to happen. The thing that disturbs me about all of this, is rape, murder and child abuse, are also predestined..
that fact that we have choices to make everyday is free will. if we didn't have free will we wouldn't understand the concept of choice, that's what separates us from everything else. we will always have free will unless someone physically takes it from us. as for a divine plan, the plan is for us to learn who we are and to help others on their journey. how you live your life is up to you but what goes around comes around. if you make bad choices you cant expect a good outcome
we do have free will, we do control our lives. everything you do or don't do is because you have a goal or a consequence in mind. being able to see a path of cause and effect along with probability is what makes good choices. from the smallest-- I'm not going to set my drink in that spot, if I reach for the lamp the probability of me knocking it over getting my phone wet will ruin it are pretty high and I cant afford a new one.. recognizing forks in your path keeps you on your long term track
From what I can see this theory isn't enough to explain, Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle, and the observer effect. Not to mention the many stories of people who managed to escape the titanic and 911 because of precog dreams, meaning that it can't be all set in stone. While yes some points are fixed in time, some others clearly are not. Also what if decisions aren't made in the mind at all, maybe they are made in the "heart", and then the mind process that, and then we become aware.
Thanks for this, I really enjoyed listening to it. I would like to take advantage of the video and use it with an article on do we have free will in my rather (so far) humble online personal development magazine.
Michael Finlayson Hi Michael. Sure. As you may have seen, youTube videos are generally listed with a Creative Commons Reuse Allowed license (CC BY). If you google that, you'll see that any video of this type will automatically show the source videos' titles underneath the video player. There are more details under "Creative Commons" under youTube help. Great you found the video useful. stillness
Hi Jason. Please give me the citations for the papers that only predict choices 60% of the time. On your subsequent comment, what is a "B - Theorist"? There are so many theorists that more clarification would be useful. Doesn't it trouble you that even if your number is what you are citing, that you agree that you don't have free will 80% of the time? Having free will 20% of the time is not logical; does the rest of the world wait for your decision 20% of the time, but not the rest?
Hey Gary.. I'm new to this school of thought.. are our thoughts and emotions predetermined too??
Hi save the oceans. Yes, everything is predetermined by some previous action, thought or emotion. stillness
@@GaryWeber thank you for your reply! 🙏
Hi @@JustAWatcher73. you're more than welcome. stillness
Can you please tell me about "naadi reading". According to those Rishis, our life is predestined. In the naadi leaf, everything is written about our lives. Does it have any relation with what you all talking now. Please reply me.
p.s. Gary, there are many people who commit suicide. Were their suicides destined from before they were born? Is it the Truth that these people had no choice but to kill themselves? I'm confused. Can you please comment or point me in the right direction? Thank you : )
Hi Honetmicky. No, predetermination doesn't mean that their suicides were destined before they were born, only that the combination of circumstances that led to that action were not under their control.
Every action is the result of countless actions by countless folk previously, over which we have no control, which is the critical point.
It is like Albert Einstein said, "Every action is determined by forces over which we have no control".
There are many videos on the "Free Will, Control, Predetermination" playlist @ ua-cam.com/play/PLuH37Fyz9VEOnY_lUcblS8aI0hF7oNMj6.html. Also if you go to my blogpost @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/ and put "free will" in the search box, you will get many blogposts exploring every aspect of the issue.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
Thanks Gary, you da man. I love your excellent channel. Peace to you on this nice day my friend : )
Hi James. The question is whether the massively interconnected network in which "we" exist can be independently modified. Can you step out of the network and make a different future for "everything". Is the entire network waiting on your decision before it moves ahead? Do you know what might result from your (apparent) decision in countless future interactions? It isn't possible to mathematically predict the next nanosecond. The real issue is "Can "you" change whatever the future is?".
Dr Joe Dispenza says We create our Entire reality
Our thoughts Create things /experiences
That we are the Cause witnessing the effect that we caused ?
He also has done many scientific experiments proving his theory is correct
Using the Quantum field that we are all connected to, (the All in Everything) we can as individuals create everything as we want it to be, because we all live In our own created Realities (multiverses)
That we can change anything we want to using his meditation methods.
What do you think about that?
most people think that they're not free if all is deterministic. this is the need of the limited/relative ego. it has nothing to do with freedom; it is quite the opposite, as you point out. the question "is freedom defined as the freedom of choice or the freedom *from* choice?" the answer is obvious. my son and i both see into the future, in different ways. he's 5yo and has predicted winning lottos here in cebu, PH, on 11 occasions. if the future is variable, this wouldnt be possible.
The truth was said at the end of the discussion- that "I have always been and I will always be..."
In this case, what should be the course of action in any situation?
Honestly, the realization of everything being predestined had come to me, and for so long as it remained crystal-clear to my understanding, I remember I had some kind of answer to this question. However, with time that understanding got a bit blur. Hence, back to the same question.
Please tell me how to choose between the options before me. Let's say there's this one thing that I really want to do, but somehow, I feel bound to do some other thing. How do I decide what to do? (I know the options are not really options, and it doesn't matter what you choose, because whatever you chose had to be chosen; even so, a response from you or anyone who's understood it better than me would be a huge, huge help.)
So there can be no choice of enlightenment. It happens or it doesnt. There seems to be someone moving towards it by meditating/understanding or moving away by being lost in some delusion, but it is just a conditioning and mind apparatus gradually being exhausted as a species evolves according to some greater intelligence. The quantum leap from duality to non-duality is one of apparent separateness back to a synchronization with that source. Thy will be done.
Hi TheJooberjones. There is no choice not only wrt "enlightenment", but to everything in our lives.
It is important to keep in mind my oft-repeated theme of none of us being in control of "these lives".
Ramana Maharshi and Albert Einstein discovered the same thing:
Questioner: How did you make your amazing discoveries?
Einstein replied: "I claim credit for nothing. Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."
Questioner: "Are only the important things in a person's life, such as their main occupation or profession, predetermined, or are trifling acts also, such as taking a cup of water, or moving from one part of the room to another?
To which Ramana replied:
"Everything is predetermined".
If you believe you are in control, just ask yourself "Do i think up my thoughts?" and "Do i think up what i say?". If you don't do those, then there are no meaningful questions about "choice".
stillness
I can choose what I will do, but I cannot choose what I will choose
Gary, I'm very curious, do you make any decisions? If so why if those decisions are predetermined? What is the motivation for making any decision? Did you decide to do this interview? What is the motivation for all the teaching you do? Are you just being without self without any actions that require any decisions? Is what your talking about truly experiential or conceptual and if it is conceptual it could very well be incorrect or incomplete with misunderstanding that wouldn't be helpful. Even if it is correct, is it helpful? It seems to be way too conceptual and philosophical without true understanding and could turn people away from some of your other good work that I find very helpful. Why present ideas that people can't ever fully understand unless they have experienced them or do you have no choice in the matter?
Timothy Locke all impulses are the cause of our deciscion a higher force influence our minds and whatever you decides to do is what is meant to be done
Hello Sir,
I have this question that keeps me confused. I agree with the fact that everything is predestined and we do not have any free will. Then why do we put efforts into chanting or meditation and why is that only after such practices do we feel peaceful. In fact, why put the effort into doing anything when everything is predestined.
For eg: We say that we are not in control of our thoughts, but we experience fewer thoughts after we meditate, so it is only by putting some effort into sitting still and learning the techniques that we get a result so in one way or another we are trying to control it right?
Does this means suicide is predetermined too?
Hi Ehlgie. Yep, everything is. Watch and see if you consciously think up your thoughts. If you don't, then you have no control over whether you have thoughts about suicide or breakfast. It's all out of our control...all of it.
If you watch your actions and "plans" in the course of a day, you'll see that you have no control over what actually happens. It is also clear that "something" is running the show as what does happen isn't random and chaotic.
As Einstein said when asked how he made his amazing discoveries..."I claim credit for nothing. Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."
stillness
gary
I'm going to sleep for the last time, I wish for my mind to stop completely tomorrow morning.
This conversation is not going anywhere- the free will is not an illusion, it’s true- I decide to quit my addiction to cigarettes long time ago and I did - I can give you 10 more examples in my life that I changed my life therefore most humans do exercise their free will to change things around them.
As free will is the only means by which fatalism would no be true, fatalism must be then true.
There’s no way to prove either way and also there’s no real difference as far as we are concerned I guess 🤷♂️ I’ve seen some comments that there is a factor of less stress or regret then I also understand life becomes more boring and stale that way too 🤷🏻♀️
so what if i just lie on my bed my whole life, are you saying that that is predestined?
Hi PULSE OF LORDS. Yes, if you are predestined to lie on your bed your whole life, that is what you will do.
However, consciously try to lie on your bed all day and see what happens...
The good news is that we are not in control of the choices that we believe we made, good or bad, and what resulted from them. This was a surprising and wonderful insight, as i was from a fundamentalist blaming/shaming culture, and it lifted those boulders from my shoulders.
The "Free Will, Control, Predetermination" playlist @ ua-cam.com/play/PLuH37Fyz9VEOnY_lUcblS8aI0hF7oNMj6.html has 11 videos on every aspect of this, including this video.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
@@GaryWeber how are you certain of this?its a theory, you cannot boldly state that we are not in control of anything, what would be the point of life, if we didnt have any choice about what we do, its a nice thought that we didn't make mistakes because we didn't control them, but really, how can you say for certain that this is the case? If i choose to get up and do something now like go run someone over, that is not predestined, i chose to do it, I am not against either side of the argument im just interested in how you can be so certain, when all of life is un certifiable and inexplicable really, i am very annoyed at my recent 'choices' in life you see, i was doing amazingly well and i made some decisions which have seemingly ruined my life, and i came across this but iv'e looked at counter arguments and they stand strong as they mention - i was completely immersed in the self, completely satisfied and at one, but i have damaged my brain and now i feel totally different - i dont feel that it was predestined for me to start fully coming into the truth and then this happen i think i just made a catastrophic mistake
Hi PULSE OF LORDS. Did you watch the entire playlist i recommended? It is not just a theory, it is a proven scientific fact, but you have to be willing to look at the facts.
In addition to the playlist, recommend you look at the blogposts:
"The impossibility of free will...scientificially and logically" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-impossibility-of-free.html and
"Our 'choices' are random???...new research" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/07/our-choices-are-randomnew-research.html on this.
Also, my latest book, "Evolving Beyond Thought" (free download under "Show More" above, has a section devoted to all the comments on "my" many "free will" blogposts.
Perhaps it is easier to ask if you are "in control" of your life, which is what really matters. There are two simple questions:
1. Do you consciously think up your thoughts?
2. Do you consciously think up what you say?
And a simple experiment:
Write down at the beginning of any day what is going to happen that day, in detail, and see if it happens.
Like you, i strongly believed i had free will and my choices resulted in all of the praise and blame that went with it. However, when the "I" was deconstructed, i found that "my life" went on better without "me" in it.
It was obvious that i had never had "free will" as there was simply no "I" to have it.
stillness
Hi Stories. i have a policy of removing multi-posts, as it verges on spam, so your last three have been deleted.
brilliant!
Hi Reshma. Great that you found it useful. stillness
When you zoom out, causality is infinite complex, and consequentiality is infinitely the same. Our actions have consequences that we know will happen, and those that we don't know as well, and they have causes we know about and don't know about as well. But just my actions and thoughts have an infinite amount of prior influences, I don't think that you can say that my own will isn't one of those factors. Just because we have limitations, it doesn't mean that we don't have freedom. Freedom makes no sense without there being constraints and limitations. You have to be able to contrast and compare things make choices. Determination and Freedom aren't mutually exclusive. My choices are limited, but they are still my choices. Free will has a particular radius and that radius is limited, but just because it is limited, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Hi smilyle. we have been heavily conditioned by our religions, our institutions, our mass-marketing, and evolution, to believe just that, but it just isn't the way it is. i would suggest you see my blogpost "The impossibility of 'free will'...scientifically and logically"; URL in the About under the vid. The neuroscience on this is compelling, as it the logic like "Can you predict your next thought?", "Can you predict all of the effects of your actions (or of others' actions on you) on everyone else, known and unknown, that will be effected in the future?" There is a great vid in my "favorites"..."Neuroscience and Free Will - BBC Video" on just how compelling the science is. stillness
+Gary Weber It's precisely the fact that you can't predict it that makes it a free-will choice.
+smilyle , I see what you mean, but I am not sure that logic follows. Indeterminacy does not suggest that we can determine the future, only that it is open.
+Rich Doyle choice isn't always about how we shape the future...it's often about how we react to the past and present. Sometimes different choices can all lead to the same result eventually. Our power to shape the future or not doesn't have anything to do with whether or not we can make choices or not. Sometimes choice is about determining how we choose to experience the inevitable or the unknown on the inside...not how we can influence events externally.
Hello sir my question is how did u reach a state of less or on thought
Hi Pratik. Asked "Who/what/when am I?" for 35 to 50 mins every day, twice if there was time. Also asked question during the day. stillness
If I fall out of the sense of time does my vision change? Do I still see movement, and do I still have memory?
Hi Tommy Juliard - If you have no sense of "time", you live only "now, now, now", so there is no storage of episodic memories. you don't remember what you did a minute ago. Movement only happens over time between two different events, so living "now, now, now" there is no movement.
Losing a "sense of time" and living only "now, now, now" is often accompanied by a loss of a sense of "you and other", as they are both subnetworks of the Default Mode Network.
Yes, what you "see" changes as there is no difference between you and other objects. There is no Tommy seeing objects, there is just "seeing". Everything is One. It is a totally different way to see the world.
stillness
Thank you very much. Does the universe bring you there naturally or is it something we must seek? All in all, is it attainable?
Hi Jesse. What you describe as the "accepted model of the Universe", is not that accepted by the cosmologists that i work with or have studied with. Agree that there is the perpetual present, but your assertion that some things are in our control, others not, does not match w/our understanding of complex systems, quantum mechanics or of cognitive neuroscience. you only "believe" the illusion that you have free will/control; there is no proof of that - our science proves just the opposite..
Ta-da!
Hi Saru Pas...yes, indeed "Ta-da!" It's all One thing, we have no control over what happens, there's only "now, now, now", and it's all Dancing exactly as it should be, as that's how it's Dancing. stillness
Hey Gary,
Has every thought, word and action I’ve said predetermined?
When did you start believing things were predetermined?
If things are predetermined, does that mean every mistake I’ve made in my life was predestined?
Hi collin. Yes, everything is predetermined.
If you look carefully, it is clear that everything has a previous cause.
Yes, everything is predetermined, both seemingly "good" and "bad" events (which may turn out differently).
stillness
the guy on the left looks like a manga professor xD especially when he looks at the other guy
Thanks for the comment, Dan. Do you mean this guy?
bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Krane.png
Either way, I guess all of cosmic history has been leading up to this comparison :)
How can you say that with some unimportant things you do have a choice? It doesn’t add up with other stuff you’ve (and Albert Einstein) been saying.
Hi M M. Who knows? That too was predetermined. stillness
Thank you for your reply Gary. You were lucky to have that experience (no thought) happen to you, so it’s easier to believe it all. After I’ve realized that living a “normal” life is just going in circles, and I isolated myself from it... I am now at a weird point where I’m starting to see that my “spiritual” seeking is also just another type of a circle.... it’s a thin line.... and I don’t know which side is true anymore. Do you have any words of wisdom that could help? There’s one method I know of that says there’s a way to investigate (not with the brain) what your soul wanted to learn from a certain experience/pattern, and then you can accelerate the process to new lessons/experiences (it’s called Feelogica), do you have any thoughts on that?
Help me understand. What you're saying is I didn't have a choice of making this comment? That the universe had made that decision for me? I understand the "Everything is one" theory and actually believe it, but at the same time millions of bacteria live on me and I have some control but not total control of how they act and move.
Hi Denim. That's right, you had no choice on whether you made this comment or not It may have felt like you did, but it you watch it closely, you don't think up your thoughts, you can't predict your thoughts, nor do you even know what you're going to say until you say it and then hear it. (see the video "you don't think up what you say").
If you can step back out of the ongoing narrative before there is a choice to be made, with the "well, this would be good but it has some problems" and the "on the other hand, this would also be good", etc., you will see that the ultimate choice just appeared out of "nowhere". It was not a logical, well-reasoned outcome. Only after the choice happened, do you make up some "reason" why you made that choice. Don't believe me, just watch it all yourself.
Recall the most important decision "you made" during your life. Did you know 6 months beforehand that that decision would appear? Once the decision was made, did you have any idea that what happened later would happen? Do you have any idea of all the effects on all the folk who were impacted by that decision?
you have literally something like 100 trillion bacteria just in your gut. you've never seen them, counted them, directed them, know how many kinds there are, or have any idea what each kind actually does, yet you say you have some control over them. Not really...
The same thing applies to your hand. you have no idea what goes on in there, how the muscles, tendons, ligaments, neurochemistry, motor cortex, etc. all work to move your hand. Our best science tells us that the motor cortex has already initiated the movement before you're even aware of it.
Watch how you walk around, eat, digest your food, listen to music, etc. you have no idea how any of this happens. How can you say you're in control.
The important thing is to recognize that you aren't doing any of this. Just watch carefully...
stillness
Gary Weber So you don't believe in free will? And I disagree about the bacteria thing, I could sanitize my hand and kill millions of bacteria so therefore I do have control or in the case of my gut eat an apple instead of a twinkie.
Also with your theory people would have no choice to be good or evil, I just can't grasp how we have no choice. I think the universe presents us with situations and as part of the one being we have a significant impact with every decision.
I also think the ultimate choice of leaving this comment didn't just come out "nowhere" that I thoroughly thought it through.
If life is already made up for us then whats the point of living?
Denim Cousens Hi Denim. Since you're having a difficult time understanding, you might also want to c/o the much-watched video "'Everything is Predetermined: Einstein and Ramana Maharshi'" and the many comments to that video.
It isn't really a question of my having a "belief" that there's no free will or control. i believed, like you do, that i was in charge of my life and that everything that happened, good or bad, was what i did and i was responsible for it. My religion told me that, repeatedly, as did most of the institutions, advertisements, and the culture i grew up in...it also felt like i had free will.
However, when the page turned for me, and the "I" fell away, and there was no one to have "free will" or be "in control", and yet everything kept functioning, even better than before, it was obvious that i had never had any "free will" nor was any "control" needed. Somehow, it was all "doing itself".
If the greatest scientist, and the most highly-regarded sage of the 20th century, and countless contemporary neuroscientists discovered that there is no free will, what is the likelihood that your belief is correct?
As a matter of policy, i only do 2 back and forth comments, so this will be our last. i do wish you the best with your spiritual practices. stillness
Hi +J. you just haven't been watching closely enough, J. "Subjective experience always wins when the issue is free-will" ignores the mountains of scientific research, videos, etc., that demonstrate that you're wrong, just like i was, and i believed as strongly as you did that i had free will.
If you are really interested in the truth of the matter, rather than just your belief, c/o the blogpost "The impossibility of 'free will'...scientifically and logically" (URL under "show more") and the video "'Everything is predetermined' - Einstein and Ramana Maharshi" and the two companion videos "You are not in Control" and "Intelligent Choice is Impossible".
Some simple things to watch which might be helpful at discovering the truth, is to see today if anything, anything at all, turned out exactly as you thought it would. If you really are in control of everything and have free will to do whatever you want to do, is that how your life has worked out?
It is great that your PTSD, DP, etc. are gone, but you really didn't do it. The science shows us that there is no such "thing" as an "I", even though we believe very strongly that we have one. It is just a waves of energy sweeping across the brain activating different brain centers to accomplish different tasks. There is not one "J", but thousands of them that change as you meet other folk throughout the day, or do different tasks, as the situation demands.
your statement that "humans are aware of what they are doing" isn't what the current events in the world would support. Exactly the opposite is what is happening...they have no clue what is going on in their brains. Their internal narrative "blah, blah" is in a disconnected universe to what is actually happening around them.
If you consider "no free will" you might be surprised that it is a much better truth than your current belief. Realizing that you are not responsible for everything that happens in your life is enormously freeing.
stillness
You would need to examine your life and see exactly how you've arrived at where you are and if that was done earnestly, you couldn't help but observe and conclude that you've had no conscious free will in what has happened(though you might very well resist that notion as you are in your post because it's too alien to what you already believe).
Read your bibles. This was spoken about thousands of years ago. God foreknew and predestined everything .
Yes, John, as in "thy will be done", Matthew 6:10. As we might expect, it is not only the Bible, in all of its versions, that records this insight. For example, the Bhagavad Gita, XVIII, verse 61 describes it as well, describing all beings "as if mounted on a machine." But as you know, for most of us, reading ABOUT an idea in a book, no matter how sacred and ancient, is usually less persuasive than discovering the truth of a phenomenon in our own experience. These dialogues are about experiencing truth in dialogue together. Perhaps we were destined to learn about it in this way :)
I heard its God's missus that is in control. Is that right.
"If God/life controls the whole infinite universe, it is beyond stupid to think you are the one exception to the rule. Could anything be more impossible? Our bodies are physical and thus part of and under the control of the physical universe, just like everything else." M. Smith. Once you accept this truth you will be able to relax & flow with life. What can be easier? "When the solution is simple, God is answering."Einstein. Go to the truthcontest website to find more tips on how to accept life
Sorry, I was having computer problems.
Bro wut 😅
These men I don't think even know want PRE-destination even means!!!!
Our destination was planned by God B4 hand (Pre)...
Read Eph. 1:4-5 &11 and Romans 8:29-30
Thanks Jeff, I doubt any of us can really comprehend in any cognitive fashion, the full implication of the absence of free will. I guess we will just have to live it :) The good news is that living through the implications of no free will results in a freedom FROM being enslaved to this character, "I". Remember, in the New Testament, it's not "My will" but "thy will" :)
Man Rich,,,, U can make some pretty hard understanding statements, because I only made it partly through 7th grade in school w/flying F's as were some of my grades...
But God has done such a work in me that U would never believe as I ONLY DO HIS WILL and as He leads me to memorize the verses locations and the verse itself!!! Like what U quoted about, Not My Will, but Let Thy Will Be Done! Now without me looking, (PRAISE GOD) go to Matt. 26:39...
Look at the Lord's prayer in Matt. 6:9-10 Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. >>>THE WILL BE DONE, ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!!!
jeff Set Free 4 Eternity
If these things are difficult to understand, it is only because our framework makes assumptions that get in the way of a simple understanding. These insights are simple, but not easy. Ever wonder why Jesus taught in parables?
Yes, I always teach Matthew 26:39, as a big part of Jesus's teaching is to demonstrate that we are not in control. Neither was he. A remarkable change happens when we just experiment with the idea that we are not in control. Nobody needs to believe it - just try it as an experiment. The freedom from the sense of egoic control is utterly liberating, and is a good translation of what John the Baptist and Jesus, mean by "metanoia." It's what happens when we experiment with "thy will be done."
Unfortunately, "Repent" has been mistranslated from "metanoia", which really means "transmutation of consciousness" or "change in consciousness". This is the change that can occur when the ego, which thinks it is in control, is asked to experiment with the experience that it isn't.
Hoping this was useful!