Dude i just started watching your runs on youtube about a week ago, and i absolutely love them. I'm by no means a speedrunner, and i don't really care to try, but I've applied some of the strats I've seen you use to bring my runs from 80 hours to maybe 55-60 hours. I know this is a few months late, but hey, i love your stuff, and i love seeing new things and learning about mechanics I didn't even know about, like the defense buff during the wonders hunt as Roxas I dont understand why people have to be such assholes, the philosophy of "to each their own" is a great thing.
Bl00dyBizkitz You never answered one question in the video tho. Are you going to Speedrun KH3? Btw i know your gonna say yes but i wanna read you say it
Darkness Same. when I finished my critical run. I was so done with KH2. then I watched BB's run on SGDQ. That really brought me back & it was fun as hell.
Thanks to speed runners, I was able to beat the more difficult bosses in KH2. Learning the different strategies to win feels so much more rewarding than going in the battle guns blazing
With how KHBBS AND DDD turned out gameplay wise, nitpicks of the KH3 gameplay are very necessary. We want a good game, like a good game that's rewarding to learn to play. Playing a game for 10 minutes and learning that loading up a command deck with Thunder Surge or Balloonra is the easiest way to play is not fun. Learning revenge values, finding good stagger points on bosses, and learning how to time dodges and blocks is fun. It just so happens that KH2 was the game to have that. And KH3 should build on that. The other side games should have built on that.
Even without learning revenge values and learning the inner mechanics of the game, it should still be designed such that casual players can enjoy the gameplay.
I don't know if your comment is meant as a criticism of KH2's combat, but I'm going to respond as if it is. If it isn't, please don't take it as addressed specifically against you. Rather, this is a comment I see often when revenge value gets brought up. Casual players don't need to go out of their way to learn all the ins and outs of KH2's combat to enjoy the game. Of course, enjoyment is subjective so it's pretty hard to make broad statements about it, but I for one enjoyed KH2's combat way before I even knew, for example, that revenge value was a thing. I find KH2's combat fun because there are many effective options to fight, the combat feels very snappy, responsive and flows well, drive forms give you good high moments during fights, summons are very powerful and underlooked, limits also give you good high moments of burst damage and invulnerability, combo modifiers make your combos powerful and look cool, -- I could go on about these things that make the game fun and are easy to notice without digging deep into the mechanics of the game. Contrast this to Birth by Sleep, annoyingly lauded by many gamers as breaking the trend of "press X to win" -- sure, you don't press X a lot anymore, because normal keyblade combos are really bad in BBS (they whiff a lot, they don't do any damage compared to commands and they are too floaty with exaggerated animations, often leaving you open to attack); now you just spam square and occasionally press triangle to execute a command. Another thing BBS gets praised for is having more options than previous games in the form of commands. In reality, most of these commands aren't usable if you play on something that isn't beginner because a) they do bad damage b) they have insanely long animations that you can easily get hit out of, or c) they are just not good commands compared to better commands like magnet, thunder, surges, and the mine and cure lines. On revenge value, I'd say revenge value is a thing that players can figure out on their own subconsciously. They might not know exactly how different attacks add to the counter, but it's pretty easy to notice that, say, at the start of the fight with Roxas, a reflect into two 3-hit combos with guard break equipped will always force a retaliation. From that you build on little things you notice in his fight pattern to come up with an overall strategy to take him down. "Revenge value" is just a fancy name for a mechanic that forces enemies to retaliate when you attack them too much. This is a core mechanic in many action games that isn't specific to just KH2; you can't just blindly keep attacking enemies to stunlock them to death, you need to learn their patterns and attack based on those patterns.
Svitkona I am not criticizing KH2 whatsoever. It's my favorite in the series. KH2 has tons of viable battle options, both for casuals and for speedrunners like BB. That being said, I am more of a casual player but lately I've been starting to study the mechanics of the game, which is where I bring up revenge value and such, and it's rewarding and fun to learn. I'm not saying that learning mechanics is necessary for the game, but it's there as an option because it adds a whole new layer to the combat, and again when you learn proper revenge values and stagger points, it's rewarding.
I'm personally thankful to speedruns for showing how deep the KH battle system can be. Casually playing is fun, but seeing the potential for these games is something else. Keep being awesome dude.
A lot of people I know who like the game think that KH2 is nothing but a button masher, speed runners look at all the possibilities in the games to find the most effective tactics to use, really helped me personally see all the options KH2 has to offer and also helped me see how shallow a system like BBS' is
So true. I would usually just mash my way through. Never used summons or limits, and still beat the game just fine. My mind was blown when I first saw a KH2FM run. Using abilities and combos in ways that made Sora look like a Super Sayian version of a Jedi. Yoda would be put to shame.
It's pretty much because of the speedrunning community that the whole "KH gameplay is just mashing X to win" stereotype is becoming less and less popular.
TylerGamer84 Speedrunners can also point out a lot of flaws in the game as well. They’re sort of like unhired QA testers when you think about it. Which might explain why Goofy’s Limits and Valor Genie got really nerfed.
Oh, yeah. I definitely remember Knocksmash being hella OP in KH2 vanilla. I fucking loved that limit. Sucks they lowkey nerfed it in 2FM, but it was for the greater good.
Sorry to post so many comments, I'm honestly trying not to spam, but... seriously? Were people getting HATE for complaining about a fucking SAVE CRASH. It's a SAVE CRASH. That's REALLY BAD, it can affect EVERYONE. Why do I get the impression that if KH3 comes out and has an occasional glitch where it wipes your PS4 memory, anybody who brings it up as a problem will be just as vilified.
But my girfriend's cousin's friend's little brother did one playthrough of KH2 for PS4 on Standard and never savecrashed, so it's clearly not a big deal.
Ever since Patch 1.03, save crashing has been contained and it might be fixed all together, but that goes to show that this can be a potential problem in the future if this kind of thing is possible.
I think the main reason people take up issues with it is because people are acting like these bugs are new to these games, but things like a save crash bug happened even back in the day of PS2. Hell, they happened back in PSOne days. It's one of the main issues I take up with people - people acting like only now do bugs appear in games by "lazy" developers as if my Pong console didn't blank sreen on me. The issue is being used to scapegoat new or alternate creators rather than looking at the core reason such a thing can happen (such as the bigger the game, the more ways it can break).
I don't care for speedrunning. I do not have the motivation to study a game's mechanics so meticulously for a few extra minutes shaved off my time record. But I appreciate that speedrunners like you take the time to obsessively analyze a game I love and point out flaws I might have missed in a casual playthrough, so I can think about how games can be improved. And tbh Bl00dyBizkitz, I feel like you're one of the best examples. You're not afraid to criticize or even savagely roast (rip BBS) games held dear by the community, but don't come off as arrogant, contrarian just for the sake of being different, or shoving your opinion down our throats, at least to me. Good on you for keeping a level head!
PokemonLyle But the casual idiots never realize that because they have no proper understanding of the battle systems in any of the kingdom hearts games.
Kingdom080500 They're afraid to admit flaws in things they care about. I don't like admitting BBS is a bad game or that Re:coded serves no purpose, but I acknowledge those. Save crashing didn't affect my friend at all, but he heavily admits that save crashing was a huge problem. He's more casual but sees why I worry about KH3 a bit. D23's trailer eased my worries somewhat, though I still see that It's a bit... floaty.
Wel lalot of the stuff he complained about was more on the technical side of speedrunning. And most of it would never bother a normal player of the game. He is a speedrunenr so i think the analysis is fair.
TheViridian Maybe he was referring to the people who blindly defend Kingdom Hearts and think everything but Re:coded has no flaws? Casual idiots refers to those who blindly defend and not really just casuals. I'm sure the dude is a casual player, and I'm a casual player who speedruns too. It was poor wording at worst.
If it wasn't for people like BB sending messages to Square and saying what's broken, we most likely wouldn't have the games fixed. Save crashing and the Final Xemnas fight were both HUGE problems for speedrunners and casual players alike. If anybody says that BB is too nit picky then I say good. We need people to hyper analyze the game. If anything, we should blame square for having the problems in the first place, not BB for figuring them out. I'm not a speedrunner but I hated these problems and I'm glad someone had the backbone to say something about it. You have tons of people at your side BB. Don't let internet trolls get you down :)
hutchitl and for the most part KH games are pretty solid. Only glitches I ever found were the famous End of World Destiny Island shack glitch, and that's it. I've noticed that the PS3 ports could seriously lag sometimes, though.
Who the fuck are these people saying that "Oh the final boss having an impossible to dodge move thanks to bugs" is a speedrunner problem? When I played KH2 final mix on PS4 for the first time last year, that fight was really pissing me off on the Data version.
It's almost counter-intuitive, but it's almost as though those who can't accept criticism of their favorite game are afraid to admit if aspects of it could be improved. We all want what's best for KH3. If anything, I feel that speedrunners of a game are often *as* -- or, in some cases, even *more* -- knowledgeable about how to make a game better than the actual developers of the game. Speedrunners not only know the story of the games that they run incredibly well, but they also have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of different game elements and mechanics with which to use for comparison and criticism. If a speedrunner makes a critique about some aspect of a game that seems concerning, it's wise to listen--these criticisms are often very fair assessments made only because speedrunners know better than anyone what sorts of considerations, from a gameplay standpoint, would be an enhancement or a detriment to the game
Agreed, runners have been beating the game over the head with a funny noise making sword for years, they know what makes the game feel and play good, and what makes it feel bleh and sluggish, because they've tried the good in the bad in their games, they've looked outside the "Spam Y Ability To Win" mindset for things that might be faster You can see this in KH2 runs, they don't just spam Magnet and Reflect, you will see them pull out other spells for various tactical reasons
Cloudmonkey Not only that, but speedrunners get the most creative (not to mention most effective) use out of Magnet and Reflect, and they’re the first people to point out how broken it is. Summons fall into an opposite but similar case in that regard: they’re very useful support utilities but are ultimately outshined for various reasons: the game gives you little-to-no tutorial on them, they use up Drive (which is really bad early game since if they don’t work out for you, you just wasted your Drive meter, and it can be obnoxious for casual players to build up Drive meter), and they have little offensive practicality/usefulness, which is the reason Drive forms get so much more spotlight casually.
Yup because speed runners no the game better than casual and it makes the game easier if the causal players listen a bit and not flip out over a little mistake just when speed runners point it out in the end it just helps the creators fix in in a possible patch
Ethan Jessen In terms of figuring out what people would like, I'm pretty sure they'd do a better jobs than the devs. It's not always easy to recognize what stuff works and what doesn't. It's not too different from saying a pro player in a multi-player game knows what should make the game balanced
This video is old now but I have only just seen it. Speed running has helped me be a better casual player, seeing the techniques you guys use and using them to enjoy the game in my own way. As for speed runners commenting on gameplay, I like to listen to your opinion as although I see the same thing you do, with you vast knowledge of the games mechanics the details you guys notice and far superior to what I see. Like you said that’s because you play them over and over. Lastly, as for the story because it’s long and can be confusing at times people will always see it as good or bad. I personally like the story it tells but I’ve had a conversation with someone who thought it was bad and he made some good points, doesn’t change my mind that I thinks it’s good, it’s about perspective. You being a speed runner doesn’t change the story it just gives you a different perspective, you understand things different to what I understand them but again your perspective is different.
The way I always viewed speed runners are people who already beat the game once or twice. I myself am a grinder and collector, I feel like I get more out of my game that way.
I'm not even a speedrunner but I know how to be critical of the games I like. One of the things I hate hearing from fanbases is that "X Development team should focus on pleasing the ones who are actually supportive of the game/franchise instead of people like you". A few problems with this statement: 1. You're assuming I don't support the game/franchise just because I criticized it. I do support the franchise and want it to flourish. 2. That's why I need to be critical of what needs to be improved so that it CAN flourish. We'll use Sonic 06 as an example. There are people who like Sonic 06. I don't, but that's okay. But that game caused many to give up on the Sonic franchise. Should Sega have said "screw the people who left" and only focused to appeal to the people who enjoyed 06 or work harder to maintain the remainder of their supporters (assuming that those who left won't be coming back)? We're not even talking about a colossal failure like Sonic 06. I'm talking just certain aspects of a game I ACTUALLY LIKE. So is it really too much to ask for a just a FEW FIXES to the game? Obviously, if you're making a game, you want your audience to grow, not remain stagnant or God forbid fade away. That's why X Development team should not just appeal to their asskissers.
As a casual fan I heavily criticize the series. Like that Xemnas RC which is genuine BS and I have no idea why it broke in the first place. I don't see blind praise of a game good. Every game has flaws and being able to both enjoy the game and point out negative aspects shows a mature appreciation of a game or any product in that manner. Hell, as a Sonic fan, I am all too familiar with enjoying a game and harshly criticizing it to its core. I agree bl00dy, I'm critical because I want the series to succeed. I think it has faltered for a while, but not to the point of no return. Keep up the good content dude.
Evilriku13 In II.5 final battle the reaction command doesn't work properly and usually you need to use a limit to survive as opposed to using the command the way it worked in the PS2 versions.
For me it's more about how often you do it and how annoying it can get if you disagree with said opinion. I personally enjoy DDD and BBS a lot, and constantly hearing that those games sucks get's frustrating when you came for a good time and get your opinion shit on constantly. Pointing out a flaw is something you should do, but if I'm watching a stream about someone playing, let's say BotW, and Skyward Sword is among one of my favorite in the series, and yes, I know it has issues, but love it despite them, and if they constantly bring up how much they dislike Skyward Sword unnecessarily often for comparison, like with the stamina gauge, you are likely to get a negative reaction from me eventually. People are entitled to their opinion, and should mention stuff they have grievances with, but at one point, it's just unnecessary to keep going on. Like, in an analysis, it makes sense to bring up something that shows up, that looks like something that has been before that doesn't work out, yes mention it, but if you are playing a game, is it necessary to bring up every so often something that is 6 years old?
Did they fix it in the PS4 port? I was playing on LV1 Crit and noticed that the only time the Xemnas RCs got me was by pure bad timing (e.g. the uppercut attack coming out right in Sora's face).
When you're passionate about a series or a game, you don't want to see it miss out on any of it's potential. If a small things that could easily be different make the game inferior, it's frustrating. It's also frustrating how many people, throughout all sorts of fandoms and medias, don't seem to understand this basic concepts,
There´s an important part of every fandom for media that seems to hate any criticsm coming for some kind if professional. I´ve seen this a lot. You are an artist criticizing something about the art department? Does not matter, that´s your opinion and your background is not to be considered. You´re a writter commenting on story structure? Does not matter, that´s your opinion and your background is not to be considered. Are you a musician saying something about how composition might be crewd? Does not matter, that´s your opinion and your background is not to be considered. My take on this is the following: These people feel intimidated by the possibility of someone knowing more than them and, because they have attached their personality to the media they consume, take professional criticsm as a personal attack. I think these people need to grow up and both acknowledge there are experts whose opinions are likely to have a better base than them and that they are not the media they consume.
I can't believe some kh fans. Watching speedrunners can even help casual players in some way. Speedrunners help casual players when the speedrunners make guides up, and explain the mechanics of the game better
99% of gamers don't watch or care a flying fuck about speedrunners. It's niche as you can get. This guy is bitching about a game that was 2 years from release. Of course he's gonna get shit on. Maybe he'll learn from it.
@@Dotoku14 Learn what exactly? And gamers should care about speed runners because they're typically the best players. He knocks KH2 out of the park by the time I'm done with like the first world cuz I'm a filthy casual. He's the reason I started to use reflect. CAN YOU BELIEVE I BEAT KH2.5 ON CRITICAL WITHOUT USING REFLECT?! I KNOW! WHAT A MORON I AM! Guess what's a lot faster: using reflect. KH2 gives you SOOOO many tools to use it's a shame to see 3 limit those options so heavily.
@@MaxLoafin And there is more too like... You can beat Vanitas optional boss in Birth by sleep EASILY with Tornado(As Ventus) or Aerial Slam(As Terra, yes the "worst" character that the community said is accualy the strongest against it other than Aqua) RNG manipulation for Re:Chain of memories And there are more stuff that i manage to learn from Speedruners
GrimoireVoss Well I mean, that is exactly how their opinions are treated by a huge proportion of the fan base, and he explained exactly how. At the very least prejudice, if not full discrimination.
honestly speedrunner just sounds like an excuse. people have gotten incredibly defensive about BBS and DDD, and the whole "osaka team" I'm not a speedrunner, I'm a mid level KH player, but people get so pissed at me when I talk about how good KH2 is compared to the rest of the games. There's claims of elitism and such because that's the only defense they have when presented with someone who knows more than they do. it's honestly just fanboy stuff, the idea that "true fans" don't say bad things about what they like
@@zachanikwano Combat-wise, KH2 is the best. And that's including 3. Story-wise, they're all tied for last. Menu navigation is fluid in almost all the games. Platforming was never a good idea in KH1, glad they toned the fuck out of that, way down in the next games. But even if there were platforming sections in KH3, you could just airdodge and attack alternately for a free glide. I kinda expect Sora to sink like a stone when gravity's involved. Seeing as how that was the case like 3 games ago.
I play the games casually and I was really happy when I discovered speedrun videos covering these games and saw people examining the combat system more in-depth, and that I wasn't the only one who had issues with the gameplay in BBS and DDD. Actual critical looks at this series are really hard to find, most people either just dismiss it outright or give generic "it's good, I liked it, this series is nostalgic" reviews. People who actually think about the mechanics of a game are hard to find, and I think members of the speedrunning community for KH are doing valuable work by holding the gameplay of the series up to a magnifying glass.
Honestly, I think the biggest problem is that speedrunners tend to hate spectacle. While KH2 had great feeling combos, Sora's moves were not all that flashy. The flashier ones tend to be the least used because they have a longer animation. When a lot of people play games like this, they tend to enjoy the flashiness becuse it looks and feels cool. It's why nine times out of ten, if you could kill an enemy that explodes, players will turn their back towards the explosions instead of running past it (unless the enemy is common) because that's "cool". Speedrunners tend to look for efficiency over spectacle. This is also one of the reasons why they prefer Revenge Values - it lets you memorize a pattern and beat it through that memorization rather than luck and reflexes. It's efficient for a speed run. The same issue shows up for how long a combo ends and the s involved. And, I think that's where the issue comes in - they want to take out things people might consider fun for their fun - speedruns. While they talk about gameplay - it's from an efficent perspective rather than an entertaining one. While it being entertaining isn't a problem, it comes second to efficiency. No wasted movements, no wasted seconds, no flashiness, just the most efficent way possible.
I dont think they hate spectacle because they DO love showing off cool tricks.Stealing Roxas's Keyblades without them being a hindrance to your movements looks super cool. fast and fluid combos, while being efficient, also means you have less chance of getting hit from a recovery animation. and to be honest, while taking advantage of revenge values is still iffy in my opinion, no one likes luck and inhuman reflexes determining your survival. and I'm pretty sure not being able to complete a combo just feels plain upsetting, either by interruption or your own decision in KH games you dont really have s in a basic combo, so the faster the combo is,the faster you regain control, the less the enemy can attack you. and anyone both casual and runners probably hates 1) getting hit 2) stopping your combo early just to avoid getting hit. in the end, I dont really think they WANT those flashiness removed, they just need the in-between frames to be seamless so it gets to be flashy AND efficient. Otherwise it's just Functions: the game.
bakkahentai2600 They don't hate spectacle, but spectacle often translates to "style over substance", the meat of the game or it's complex mechanics are sacrificed simply to wow the audience or the players, imagine if KH3 was simply a game where You pressed one button every once in a while but it resulted in giant finishers and long winded animations that only serve to make the game look cool. Substance is always preferable over style, and often times substance is what leads to style in the first place especially if You understand what's at stake. Like if You watch KH2 on Critical, it doesn't look super complex but You can understand that one or two hits can mean death so when something risky is pulled off, it ends up being stylish. I'd rather have a game full of substance rather than a game full of style, even though both can be achieved and both are achieved in KH2FM, You'll have more fun coming back to a game with deep mechanics and style rather than a game that's just style with nothing keeping it interesting.
N W Z And how is prioritizing good controls, a good camera, and well designed combat counter intuitive to being enjoyable. Sorry but what the speedrunners for KH have in mind is a good well designed game that can be returned to time and time again, spectacle only lasts a little while, substance can last a long time. His criticisms are also not just from a speedrunners perspective, He is not saying change the game for us speedrunners, He's saying make it the best it can be by making good choices in combat design, speedrunners deal with whatever game they're given, but a game that has poor choices is bad for everyone. - The horrendous camera. - The long ending lag. - The somewhat floaty looking combos. Those are all absolute flaws, that should be fixed and effect more than just speedrunners.
+Clone Loli The problem is, Speedrunners priortize efficiency over what the average playerbase consider fun. Unless they can kill really fast, I doubt a single speedrunner will use the robot shown, but for most players, the chance to do it and only in Toy Story will be far more fun for them. A lot of the "good conrols" usually JUST bothers speedrunners for a something taking an extra frame or two while most regular players won't even notice even when they jump from KHIIFM. Why? Because those couple extra frames don't matter in regular play but they add a bit of life. Speedrunners will remove anything with flare if it takes time, they'll spam the hell out of a single move if it means winning faster, and they'll desire any little bits of extra animation that adds to characterization for Sora or the world to be removed. While balance, controls, and camera is important, it is not designed or balanced with speedrunners in mind. Also, keep in mind that speedrunners play a game far more often to the point of monotony for the reputation (and donations) so they lose the excitement of flashiness through repition. The average player will beat it once or twice and put it away for a while until they feel like playing it - probably a year or so later or near a new sequel. They'll play less but enjoy the game more because they don't burn themselves out, and this also means spectacle will remain a joy for a lot longer. Now I'm not arguing against making goodcombat. What I'm arguing against is speedrunner's idea of what makes combat good usually is just for them, not the playerbase.
4:13 - 4:25 I can vouch for that. I'm not a speedrunner, but I too have the same issues that make bosses more complicated. ( It even more so affects players doing Critical Level 1 runs such as myself.) It doesn't take a speedrun to notice glitches or flaws.
2 Years later and KH3 is considered midling among the the KH games in terms of quality. It's almost like playing the games more leads to greater understanding of what makes them tick or something 🤔
I always thought that speedrunning was a fun challenge to do once you beat a game but wanted to play more of it? I'm aware now that speedrunnrs are actually very important and that this can actually help a lot of people thanks to this video. It's like criticizing art, and finding flaws helps everyone improve. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
God no. Speedrunning games is awful. You need to know every tech available or there is no point. It's better to reallocate the time allocation to work overtime or learn abilities for real world jobs. That said I don't hate speedrunners.
I think the only instance in which a speed running mindset kind of goes against the casual experience and the general quality of the game, is when they criticize glitches getting patched up because they could use the glitch to save time. Eventho glitches are technically mistakes in the code which justifiably corporations, programmers and casual fans would like for them to be fixed and not to stain the general quality of the product. Other than that yeah, speedrunners usually advocate for tight controls which is good for everyone.
Honestly i love your content i never have done a speed run walktrough but some strategys you use have helped me in lvl1 org battles and secret bosses just continue with your thing and always try to be better everyday believe me i see spedruners as how much time they dedicate to an specific game spedruners have talent just be you.
I'm glad in particular that one of your last comments was brought up, that "speedrunning allows players to revisit some of their favorite games in a new way". A similar thing happened to me with Super Mario Sunshine; a game I loved dearly only became loved even more so when I began to dabble in speedrunning it. Seeing how far I myself could push the game is a feeling that is truly amazing, and it allows a person to truly master the mechanics of a game in a meaningful way, with an actual sense of advancement beween playthroughs. Now, I'm not a top tier speedrunner of Sunshine by any means; my times are terrible in the grand scheme of things compared to the world record, but I can still execute many of the core glitches and play the game in a way that, while still unoptimized, is far above the level of a casual player, and it feels very good to be able to control my character with such precision. Speedrunning isn't for everyone, however, I think people should at least try casually picking up speedrunning for games they really enjoy. It can really enhance your love for a game, and give it replay value you had no idea it had. I don't know why I'm even here. I'm into speedrunning as a whole, but have never even played a Kingdom Hearts game in my life, so I suppose that's how I found this video. However, I'll still say that many of the points you made rang true for me all the same despite not being a part of this community, and I definitely enjoyed your video.
How dare you voice concerns about my most favorite game in the whole world that has not even come out yet. I am a real fan, who has been complaining about getting a release date for years, but all you care to do is whine about how bad the game looks. Shame on you for not being a true fan of the series. 😜 Kappa
Although I feel really betrayed by you speedrunners, I have to agree with you : when you criticize a game, it's for a good reason, to make it better ! Yes, sure you can enjoy the game like it is, but you can also notice even the smallest flaws no one cares about so they can be fixed, and that won't hurt, the things will change in a good way !
I've always had respect for speedrunners and the knowledge they have about games. Speedrunners just know how the game works and know the most efficient way to play the game they speedrun. Nice job making this video.
I know I'm late to this video, but it's not just speedrunners that get blown off by casuals. I'm not speedrunner, but I HAVE played all of the games released thus far, have watched other peoples' playthroughs, & studied through those & analysis videos on the mechanics to be decently knowledgeable about how the various games work. Yesterday, when I was watching Dansgaming livestream BBS, I brought up how KHII was more fluid & fast in terms of the combat, then some people immediately tried to pass me off as what they perceived as a "hater." I don't _hate_ BBS, but it could've used a lot of refinement in the gameplay department, BTW. I then brought up how Terra's unbelievably stiff & another person said that's how he's supposed to be. Maybe, but when they had a refined version of Sora's KHI combat style with Limit Form in KHII FM, then Terra shouldn't control somehow worse than KHI Sora. My ultimate answer to people like these are, "play the games more than once or a few times & play them on their hardest difficulties, then you'll see what I mean," because when KHII FM has a Critical Mode with a good amount challenge & fexability, then there's no excuse why the games that follow it can't or don't. I'm currently doing a Critical Mode run of DDD & I can tell you that the game's mechanics are really bad in it, not even taking KHII FM into account, so I have more of an idea than casuals like you.
l think that the speedrunning community is a "quality control" community in KH, if the speedrunning guys says that the game is perfect, then it has tight controls, usefull gameplay mechanics, revenge value / staggered bosses, and every mechanic or element that made KH2 good (not taking into account, obviously, what makes the new game good as well). If fans so critical and technical about the game are happy with it then everyone in the community knows that there's nothing to fear, speedrunners are like the ultimate reviewers of KH.
Not trying to start an argument here or anything, but I think the problem is more so how you guys come off about your opinions on the games rather than the opinions themselves. It's one thing to state an opinion, but I think it just comes off kind of unprofessional. Like I've seen people say shit like "if they like DDD then they're dumb" or "BBS is a bad game and if you think otherwise then your opinion is shitty" when really, it's all just a matter of personal preference. There's no real right or wrong in terms of what is good or bad. There seems to be this lack of objectivity. For example, I'm really into music and I like to think of myself as somebody more astute in analyzing the intricacies of music more than others. And yes, while it annoys me that most people are into mainstream party music that I can't stand, I understand that everybody doesn't want to analyze lyrics and compositions the way I do. Most just want to go to a party and dance and have fun, and that's totally fine. But there's a certain... arrogance that comes from a lot of the KH speedrunner community, even if it's subtle. And I'm not talking about you specifically, but for instance instead of seeing some say "well for me personally, this is what I don't like" I see things like "this is what I don't like and people who don't see this are ignorant" and that's gonna ruffle some feathers, because it's making people feel like they're dumb or inferior just because they play the game casually. Honestly, this is more of a "them" problem but I think that's where it comes from. It's just the way the opinions are presented like "ugh this is fucking dumb." It does get a tad annoying when every complaint made towards any of the new games is pretty much "it's not like KH2." KH3 clearly seems to be a culmination of multiple games in the series thus far (including KH2), so naturally, it probably won't feel the exact same. And many speedrunners seem to (just from my perspective, not sure if it's true) just want a KH2 HD Remake instead of a brand new game that WILL have differences and WON'T feel the exact same every time. You guys just come off more as "KH2FM fans" rather than general "KH fans" I suppose. I've even seen some people make fun of KH fans for wanting KH merchandise or certain preorder bonuses. Like... yeah, most fans want more KH merch, no? There's a big divide here though. Fans who are casual towards the gameplay but hardcore for the series as a whole have a problem with KH gameplay enthusiasts sharing their opinions a certain way because it comes off as arrogant and fans who are hardcore for the gameplay but casual for the series/story seem to get annoyed at any complaints made towards the franchise's marketing because they feel like the gameplay should take precedence over anything else. I don't think either side is right or wrong, there's just a lot of miscommunication and a lack of understanding of the other side imo. We have to remember that our interests won't always align.
I've actually heard the same thing speedrunners say about BBS and DDD. Like BB tries to debunk these things in this video yet i've heard directly speedrunners say the things he is trying to debunk.
Exactly! This is the real issue I think people have had with BB or Bizkit. If the streamer and chat is being negative and disrespectful to both Nomura and the Osaka Team. That's really going to make a casual fan who likes to watch speedrunning. Not fun and interesting in watching it anymore. I understand and agree with pointing out flaws and discussing what you don't love about what's in the game and address what needs to be fixed. But be chill if someone doesn't agree with your Opinion and don't make fun of them for liking games that aren't like KH2FM. Ex. Calling them stupid or saying "they're not real fans/Players because they like spamming easy commands"
Yeah exactly. And what gets me is their nitpicks. I can understand bigger problems like a lack of revenge value and enemies not staggering, but every nitpick is geared towards the speed of animations, as if KH was ever designed for speedrunners or to be beaten in a few hours. And they act like Sora should move like a robot who automatically stops at pin point precision. The little animations like Sora recovering or flipping to balance himself on a rail, it just seems a bit... idk, trivial? I mean I understand from their perspective, but I wouldn't say that's a problem with the game itself.
Well what I hate the most is they think complaining about it is magically going to get the game to be made how they want it to be made. Like KH2's combat hasn't been revisited since well.......KH2 which was 11 years ago, what makes them think that Osaka a entirely different team is going to make it play exactly like KH2 with it's snappy gameplay which is always speedrunners main complain. I mean look at BB's trailer analysis, literally the entire 51 mins was basically slowing down the footage so he can show how the core game play wasn't 100% like KH2's core game play. He even mentions like 3 or 4 times about KH2's game play in that video so BB can't say speedrunners aren't concerned if KH3 plays like KH2 because in in his analysis all he does is compare it to KH2.
Look, it is a nostalgia type of thing going on. I got hyped after the first time I looked at the trailer like a fanboy of the series. In that regard, I can understand why people get angry towards you for "shitting" on the trailer analysis video based on that. In my personal opinion, I watch these types of videos from speedrunners not because they speedrun the game but because of their knowledge of the gameplay. Let's be honest, speedrunners play the game significantly more than casuals and are looking at the mechanics based on previous games. These types of videos are important because someone like me that just sees hype needs someone else to bring me back into perspective so for that thank you for making this video.
Personally I like Kingdom Hearts speedrunners because I like to use the techs to make my casual playthroughs more interesting. Honestly until I watched you I would have never touched magnet or summons or use some of the more interesting ability combinations.
So basically, "Because you're a speedrunner" is code for "I'm upset that you're not completely happy with a game I love and on which my life depends on being great". Some of these guys literally get offended when you don't agree with them on everything.
This makes me so angry. I know this video is over a year old and you have uploaded a new video as well, but the idea that only speedrunners care about kh2 mechanics just bothers me to no end. I've never done a speedrun in my life. KH2 mechanics were so great and are the reason why I still play the game to this day. I can't say the same about any other KH games. The fact that people accept this descent into mediocrity in gameplay is unnerving. People apparently don't understand that KH2 is used as an example against the faulty gameplay in other titles, and that people don't want KH2 again, but something new that's at least as good if not better. But if the devs can't come up with something that works better, then yeah, I'd rather have KH2 system.
I'm a casual fan and I criticize the series. I love Kingdom Hearts, been playing it since I was 13 and now I'm 27. Its allowed me to escape from the harshness of my abusive family back in the day. However, how can no one *not* criticize the story elements of where the story is going or even the wait time for KH3? I'm holding my breath on that "2018" release by the way. I know this is a video on speedrunning but I know that #4 on this list, KH Speedrunners are definitely not the only ones criticizing the series.
Maybe it's because I'm not huge into Kingdom Hearts (still like the series overall) but I didn't know there was that big of a speedrunning community exclusively for Kingdom Hearts.
Don't even bother taking offense from Kingdom Hearts fans. These are the same people that went to the orchestral concert in New York dressed in cosplay, and the same people that screamed *during an orchestrated performance and made it difficult to hear the music in the first place.* I love Kingdom Hearts, but good god, an alarming amount of the fanbase act like children. While it is an E rated game, and of course young people will play it, there are people who don't act their age. People have every right to criticize a game. If we all just "enjoyed a game for what it was," we would be stuck with a multitude of Superman 64s and ET the Game. Also I'm just confused at what the thought process behind all of this is: why speedrun a game you don't enjoy? I might understand if it were a meme game, like Putt-Putt Goes to the Zoo or something, but not a game of this caliber...
The general problems I find with speed runners is their bad habit of wanting the entire game to be built around a speed run. Speed run should be the base - where the mechanics start and end for you to beat it extremely fast, but there is room for spectacle. The robots, for instance, are definitely there for casual fun, not efficient fun. As a speed runner, you'd ignore these things, but in a non-speed run even when playing on highest difficulty you might use them for fun or even if they slow you down, might make it easier to survive a level. Of course, sometimes the abilities or enemies are balanced as well as they could allowing a lot of exploits. This naturally leads to things like Thunder Surge spam, but then I would never expect people to buy a single ability to spam and I doubt a developer would eithe because... well, because a developer wouldn't spam like that. It's also something that wouldn't really be tested either because it's such an arbitrary thing. It's a case of "player vision" - players won't care for the integrity of the game as much as a developer and their separation from it gives them the vision needed to do things like spam abilities.
I find it's not about being built around a speedrun. It's just around how good the mechanics were in the previous games and knowing what were poor game choices in them too. KH2 is generally agreed upon to be a fantastic game because of how you could beat things casually, without needing speedrunner strats. Yeah, I would hope the robots are not necessary, but they could be, seeing how Reality Shift was a mechanic that you were forced to use in order to beat most bosses. Exploits aren't necessary in the speedrunning community, but I find that they energize the speedrunners and motivate them to try new things. Thunder Surge spam is an exploit because of how necessary it was, and how much better of an option it was over other commands.
bakka, your example makes no sense because by your logic he wouldn't have given 2 fucks about the robots, as he'd have no intention to use them to begin with. The hitboxes being terrible only matter for casual players who are going to have a frustrating time in higher difficulties. Same thing with the combos that turn you into a target. In fact, the thunder surge thing is another point that goes against your perception that they want games to be built around speed runs, if that was the case they wouldn't complain about BBS' many, many exploits since that is all they'd be interested in. Surges are rather easy to get in BBS, the problem is with how useless everything else tends to be: the game is not built around any of the hard to obtain cool-looking commands, it's built around spamming s. Think about it, why would they complain that "strong" commands in BBS turn you into a sitting duck if they never even go out of their way to get them? They do so because this is shitty design that doesn't reward the player for actually putting in the effort to get them, and that is only relevant for casual players since they are the only ones who would be tempted to load their decks with Ars, Megaflare, etc. Look at Yoshi's island, another highly speedrunnable game, the maneuvers you have to pull to speedrun it are also really different from what casual play looks like just like BBS, but the game is designed really well for a casual playthrough so Yoshi's Island speedrunners don't complain about it at all. You don't seem to get that speedrun strats emerge after the game is already out and they have played it to death, people discover what is and isn't OP after the fact.
The year is 2020 and speedrunners have started their take over. They came to this planet and acted as humans when in fact, they are beasts that only look towards destruction. The speedeunners have started corrupting our young telling them that not every game is perfect and many have flaws. We need to fight back before all casual players turn into these beasts. Please join the casual resistance now!
Tbh, I agree with the comment above. The only acceptable fanbase I found, it's de Ace Attorney one, and it's very… special (weird.). I wouldn't judge the fanbase. There are dumbasses everywhere, but there are nice people too. I'd say the problem resides in Twitch's chat and UA-cam's comment section. Don't think the general opinion is what you see there. Usually the louder people are also the most stupid ones.
Congratulations, you're part of the cancer. BB at least had the wherewithal to acknowledge it's a vocal minority but here you come along acting like you're better than everyone else who plays the same game and thus become part of the cancer.
This is gonna make me sound super bad at KH but idc, watching your speedruns are the only way I was able to learn the intricacies of the data fights enough to beat them all.
For me, it usually comes down to something like this. I find speedrunners focus so heavily on core combat, that they don't see the wood for the trees. If I say that I liked Birth By Sleep, and my speedrunner friend will say it's the worst in the series because Thunder Surge is OP, seeker mines are the best command, cartwheels make you almost invincible, and the lack of the revenge value system means that boss fights are inconsistent. And he's not wrong, but I like the combat in BBS for more reasons than just its balance, and I like BBS overall for more reasons than just its core combat gameplay. I think that's why speedrunners get a bad rap for this stuff.
I personally love seeing speedruns of games I love because they usually show some more efficient ways to play through the game. Like a quicker way through a boring segment or a faster kill on an annoying boss or even just an easy counter for a devastating blow. I appreciate the speedrunning community and their ability to show core mechanics in a different light.
Great video BB, I personally view the speed running community of Kingdom Hearts as a necessary and important extension. It helps create more in-depth strategy and tech to an otherwise, "hack and slash" oriented game. Keep up what you're doing my man, also clean choice of music.
Personally, speedrunners actually help me appreciate the games more than I would have otherwise. They helped me realize how good certain game mechanics are that I never really used much, like magic and summons and limits, as well as helping me find safe and efficient ways to handle some of the games' toughest fights. I will always be grateful to KH speedrunners for helping me achieve an appreciation for the kh games that I never would have reached otherwise.
That dude really made a three paragraphs wow. I'm even gonna lie I trust speedrunners more than the osaka team. Also not trying trying to sound like a kiss ass but if it wasnt for the speed runners I probably would have never done a level one run
Wow thats really interesting, I always look forward to speedrunner analysis over casual fans who hype everything up (ie TGJ) because critiquing a game from a technical standpoint is much more difficult than from a casual standpoint. Usually if youre excited enough about something, a casual review can be pretty bland and uninformative. But a "speedrunner" POV can really freshen up the discussion by taking into account all the little things about a game and really get into its pros and cons. Maybe some people just cant take constructive criticism about their favorite games :/
1.5 years later i found this video. just finished KH3 in proud and I have to say KH3 is simply not fun to play. the cutscenes were great, not sure about the combat system but I felt like proud = "i want to watch cutscenes" difficulty. the health bar of sora is way too much that you do not have to worry about being hit. Just make sure you have turned on MP safety and spam all the spell out before you use heal and heal at the last minute. Then you are good to go. The combat gives you a lot of Triangles to hit and the game tried to make you feel that you are doing so much but in fact you are not. afterall i love the KH series but i am disappointed of the gameplay. background of myself: Not a very mechanically skilled player but i have managed to 100% both 1.5+2.5.
A minor gripe. PLEASE don't refer to non-speedrunner players as casuals. Admittedly people may not have made it their business to play the games to perfection in a 100% or any% capacity. Or may not know the inner workings inside and out. But that does not make them a casual. Some people can love this series and play the games every single day, hell, two of my friends loved kingdom hearts so much they got ENGAGED in Sora and Kairi cosplay. I do not think that qualifies as 'casual'. Please use another term when referring to fans who are not speedrunners. Even "regular fans" would be more accurate.
I play the series casually. I LOVE tuning in to AGDQ to see the KH speedrunners come up and break the game. I also find it crazy that people would think Xemnas' reversal command not working would be solely a speedrunning problem because that's just straight up a broken port
Huh. Even as a mostly casual player most of your criticisms were very legitimate. The hitbox on the arm of that giant dude in Olympus is HORRENDOUS, and the camera at the beginning of the trailer is pretty wonky, even if it does "fix" itself after a few seconds. (Although the trailer might be using purposely cinematic cameras and the came might not actually play like that? No way to know, though.) If you've played KH2, you cannot look at the combos in KH3 and not say they're slow as hell. I don't mind flashy attacks for, say, the hyper hammer or those command styles, but give me quick and simple keyblade combos, please.
Its not even that they are slow, its the end lag on swings, maybe they were performing combos slowly in the dev builds for better visibility on each attack, but it looks bad floating there for a second between each attack
I think this is the first time I've ever commented on one of your videos, but I've been lurking KH speedrun videos and streams for years. I think the content you (and other runners like Bizkit and Spider) create is fantastic and I really value your viewpoint because of how knowledgeable you (and other runners) are. Keep up the good work BB, thanks for keeping me glued to KH even after all these years.
I can't believe how stupid and ignorant some people can be. Not about Kingdom Hearts or Speedrunning, but about videogames itself. I mean, shit, if you enjoy the medium enough to go out of your way to find and look at a 50 minutes video of analysis of a trailer for a game that will be published next year, you should AT LEAST try and understand what a videogame fucking is. Big news everyone: a videogame is a GAME. It's interactive. The gameplay it's the number one thing of interest, not the story, not the art style, not the music, the gameplay. All these "speedrunner stuff that no one cares about" actually are pretty damn important. These "3 frame animations" and "slow combos" are the reason why Kingdom Hearts BBS 0.2 is less fun than KH2, the details such as revenge value and "speedrunner shit" like that is what changes the experience, the thing is that most people will just feel the game as different, a speedrunner is going to understand why it's different and potentialy criticize the difference, if it's bad gameplay-wise. And, guess what, since speedrunners know a lot of details about the game mechanics their opinion counts more than your, period. For real people, get you heads out of your anuses sometimes.
Simocick In KH's case, it uses a lot of cutscenes to tell it's story, so it's more important for that to be good than most games. Even so, yeah, gameplay plays a bigger part in enjoyment of a game than anything else, even the little things that you don't consciously notice or think about.
Levi Sullivan Yeah, don't get me wrong, the story in a videogame can be very important and I too enjoy a good story in a game, but people shouldn't forget that it's videogames we are talkin about, and a videogame with a great story but a bad gameplay is always going to be worst than a game with no story and a great gameplay!
I only disliked the analysis because it was a little hard to follow with you and Dax talking over each other sometimes. I think everyone hopes the game is good and does well. I also really hope it's fun as a casual experience and as a speedrun. Everyone should want people to have a good time with the game no matter what they are looking for from it. I want the game to be enjoyable and good in as many aspects as it can be. However I do have some points that are not meant to be mean nor discriminate. Speedrunning is a unique and fairly well known way to play games to freshen up your favorite games as you said. However, some things that a few speedrunners say can be quite... mean and borderline disrespectful which unfortunately tends to view the whole community in a certain way. In your amazing SGDQ run of KH 2 it was said during the run that no one there remembered the story of the game and that it was confusing nonsense. No one challenged that assertion and it even got a laugh. I know that this was for a joke, but I don't doubt most of you don't really know the details of the story. This is an unfortunate aspect of the commentary because obviously there is a lot of tech to go over and it isn't a super long speed game. However, the FF7 community gave a very good and in depth explanation of the story as it happened. Now I am aware this is because you can't skip cutscenes and they might as well do it, but they do know the game and the story. It came across like the KH 2 speedrunners don't care about the story which is unfortunate. Another thing that bugs me is that often when people don't see the problems that speedrunners see or there is a disagreement I have seen several speedrunners call people stupid. I love Bizkit047, but he is a pretty major offender in this area. Some people do say dumb things in his comments, and some people make bad arguments. However, he fairly often responds with "Are you retarded?" I am aware he has to put up with a lot and probably gets sick of going over things so much. However calling people stupid and retarded is not a great look. Also in his twitch chat people MAUL people who don't know what a speedrun is. People see someone with a lot of viewers playing KH on Twitch and drop in. I saw one poor dude show up and ask why he doesn't level up after a death, and Biz plus the chat were vicious. I'm almost positive that person left after that. This doesn't mean everyone who speedruns is like that, far from it honestly. But when some of your most well known community members act a certain way and gain sort of a reputation it can begin to affect how people view you. Honestly B00dy you are a good person and I know you do your best to put out information and be nice. I do have a question though, if you did in fact read all of this. Do you think speedrunning has affected your analysis and judgement of the series? If you were just a casual fan do you think you would feel the way you do? Because I know speedrunning changes how you think about a game, it has to. Do you think it is unfair when people claim your criticisms stem from you being a speedrunning (minus all the really rude stuff some people say)?
Sparda You have a link to said stream? I'm not doubting you in any sense, just curious as to how arrogant the stream (Biz included during this stream by your claims) was when this happened
I did specify Bizkit047 for a reason. Bl00dy is a good guy, I don't recall him ever calling anyone stupid. Biz on the other hand does it... pretty often. I can see why you were confused, I hope that clarifies it.
I understand what you're saying but one of the things you complain about is how many frames a finisher takes. Only a speedrunner would care if an animation takes 9 frames as opposed to 6.
Hey BB, this is the most appropriate video to write this. Years ago i dropped kh but then i saw your run at GDQ with Bizkit of data fights and it motivated me to get kh2fm again and try critical mode and lvl1 for the first time. Thanks BB, also your and MieDax's commentary about Sonic 06 (masterpiece lol) at GDQ is still funny as hell.
a video crying about the trials, tribulations, "labeling", and "stereotyping" that you have to put up with when you're in a niche, of a niche, of a niche community. am I supposed to take this shit seriously? is this a comedy video?
Good video, it was something that needed to be addressed. I think everybody would be much more accepting of KH speedrunners if they realised that the critisisms that they gave is more than likely what lead to the patches, which have made the games a better experience for everyone, not just speedrunnes.
Sooooo...what's the difference between lumping everyone together and invalidating their arguments by calling them a speed runner....and lumping everyone together as casuals and saying their criticisms are dumb and baseless? Haha. I'd say there are points to be made from most sides. Hell, not everyone seemed to agree with what you are saying in the video. People aren't always just being dumb haters. I personally wouldn't consider myself a casual player, but not a speed runner either. More like a completionist. I have a lot of knowledge on the games and replay them quite frequently. I do find that for most games the speed running community comes off as very entitled and acting like they are the true elite players. It might not be intentional, but I've come across it a lot. Just some thoughts, I dunno. I pretty much just consider everyone fans and that's it.
the "Osaka" games had my favorite battle systems and throwing them out in favor of generic spells, reaction commands and *more menus* feels like a huge step back. I know its a kids' game but it doesnt have to be simplistic.
Whenever it came to speedruning I always figured you'd play the game from start to end, figure out certain things you can do to make your time faster, and then BOOM your start the run
I apologize if this somehow made it your recommended list and you don't care about speedrunning in any capacity.
UA-cam's algorithm is shit.
Bl00dyBizkitz this actually was not but youtube has a crap algorithm though.
Sooo youre not gonna ever play a
Kh3
Dude i just started watching your runs on youtube about a week ago, and i absolutely love them. I'm by no means a speedrunner, and i don't really care to try, but I've applied some of the strats I've seen you use to bring my runs from 80 hours to maybe 55-60 hours.
I know this is a few months late, but hey, i love your stuff, and i love seeing new things and learning about mechanics I didn't even know about, like the defense buff during the wonders hunt as Roxas
I dont understand why people have to be such assholes, the philosophy of "to each their own" is a great thing.
Bl00dyBizkitz You never answered one question in the video tho. Are you going to Speedrun KH3?
Btw i know your gonna say yes but i wanna read you say it
@@dignelberrt what kind of run are we talking here? Because I got the plat in kh2 in arount 50. I wish you the best of luck in your future runs btw
I enjoy casual play, but watching your speedruns made me a better player at KH2. Keep doing what your doing BB.
silentnerd8 Same. I used to be bad and played on normal but now I won't settle for anything less than critical.
VictoryStar literally me right now
Nintendo Gamecube good luck. Use Aquas d link to have a means for using cure early on for terra and ventus.
Nintendo Gamecube just a warning, you won't unlock secret episode if you mix difficulties
See... it made me realize how OP magic is in that game.
Without speed runners I never would have been able to finish my level 1 run of kh1 and kh2
Darkness Same. when I finished my critical run. I was so done with KH2. then I watched BB's run on SGDQ. That really brought me back & it was fun as hell.
oh god... right?
Darkness I got thank Cyberman65 and BB for it. KH1FM LV1 is near impossible.
Thanks to speed runners, I was able to beat the more difficult bosses in KH2. Learning the different strategies to win feels so much more rewarding than going in the battle guns blazing
So you guys can't do anything by yourselves?
With how KHBBS AND DDD turned out gameplay wise, nitpicks of the KH3 gameplay are very necessary. We want a good game, like a good game that's rewarding to learn to play. Playing a game for 10 minutes and learning that loading up a command deck with Thunder Surge or Balloonra is the easiest way to play is not fun. Learning revenge values, finding good stagger points on bosses, and learning how to time dodges and blocks is fun. It just so happens that KH2 was the game to have that. And KH3 should build on that. The other side games should have built on that.
Even without learning revenge values and learning the inner mechanics of the game, it should still be designed such that casual players can enjoy the gameplay.
I don't know if your comment is meant as a criticism of KH2's combat, but I'm going to respond as if it is. If it isn't, please don't take it as addressed specifically against you. Rather, this is a comment I see often when revenge value gets brought up.
Casual players don't need to go out of their way to learn all the ins and outs of KH2's combat to enjoy the game. Of course, enjoyment is subjective so it's pretty hard to make broad statements about it, but I for one enjoyed KH2's combat way before I even knew, for example, that revenge value was a thing. I find KH2's combat fun because there are many effective options to fight, the combat feels very snappy, responsive and flows well, drive forms give you good high moments during fights, summons are very powerful and underlooked, limits also give you good high moments of burst damage and invulnerability, combo modifiers make your combos powerful and look cool, -- I could go on about these things that make the game fun and are easy to notice without digging deep into the mechanics of the game.
Contrast this to Birth by Sleep, annoyingly lauded by many gamers as breaking the trend of "press X to win" -- sure, you don't press X a lot anymore, because normal keyblade combos are really bad in BBS (they whiff a lot, they don't do any damage compared to commands and they are too floaty with exaggerated animations, often leaving you open to attack); now you just spam square and occasionally press triangle to execute a command. Another thing BBS gets praised for is having more options than previous games in the form of commands. In reality, most of these commands aren't usable if you play on something that isn't beginner because a) they do bad damage b) they have insanely long animations that you can easily get hit out of, or c) they are just not good commands compared to better commands like magnet, thunder, surges, and the mine and cure lines.
On revenge value, I'd say revenge value is a thing that players can figure out on their own subconsciously. They might not know exactly how different attacks add to the counter, but it's pretty easy to notice that, say, at the start of the fight with Roxas, a reflect into two 3-hit combos with guard break equipped will always force a retaliation. From that you build on little things you notice in his fight pattern to come up with an overall strategy to take him down. "Revenge value" is just a fancy name for a mechanic that forces enemies to retaliate when you attack them too much. This is a core mechanic in many action games that isn't specific to just KH2; you can't just blindly keep attacking enemies to stunlock them to death, you need to learn their patterns and attack based on those patterns.
Svitkona I am not criticizing KH2 whatsoever. It's my favorite in the series. KH2 has tons of viable battle options, both for casuals and for speedrunners like BB. That being said, I am more of a casual player but lately I've been starting to study the mechanics of the game, which is where I bring up revenge value and such, and it's rewarding and fun to learn. I'm not saying that learning mechanics is necessary for the game, but it's there as an option because it adds a whole new layer to the combat, and again when you learn proper revenge values and stagger points, it's rewarding.
oops, i meant to comment to the person above me ;_;
wow i did it again
Wow I bet you made this video because you're a speedrunner
Torova 😂😂😂😂
New meme :D
nice
Torova BEST NEW MEME IN A WHILE
I agree
I'm personally thankful to speedruns for showing how deep the KH battle system can be. Casually playing is fun, but seeing the potential for these games is something else. Keep being awesome dude.
A lot of people I know who like the game think that KH2 is nothing but a button masher, speed runners look at all the possibilities in the games to find the most effective tactics to use, really helped me personally see all the options KH2 has to offer and also helped me see how shallow a system like BBS' is
So true. I would usually just mash my way through. Never used summons or limits, and still beat the game just fine. My mind was blown when I first saw a KH2FM run. Using abilities and combos in ways that made Sora look like a Super Sayian version of a Jedi. Yoda would be put to shame.
It's pretty much because of the speedrunning community that the whole "KH gameplay is just mashing X to win" stereotype is becoming less and less popular.
TylerGamer84 Speedrunners can also point out a lot of flaws in the game as well. They’re sort of like unhired QA testers when you think about it.
Which might explain why Goofy’s Limits and Valor Genie got really nerfed.
Oh, yeah. I definitely remember Knocksmash being hella OP in KH2 vanilla. I fucking loved that limit. Sucks they lowkey nerfed it in 2FM, but it was for the greater good.
Man congratz on the 8:33. Are you gonna go for 8:30 next? There are certainly things that can be slightly improved upon.
Sorry to post so many comments, I'm honestly trying not to spam, but... seriously? Were people getting HATE for complaining about a fucking SAVE CRASH. It's a SAVE CRASH. That's REALLY BAD, it can affect EVERYONE. Why do I get the impression that if KH3 comes out and has an occasional glitch where it wipes your PS4 memory, anybody who brings it up as a problem will be just as vilified.
ShyRanger Cause a lot of people are too forgiving of these companies sadly
But my girfriend's cousin's friend's little brother did one playthrough of KH2 for PS4 on Standard and never savecrashed, so it's clearly not a big deal.
Ever since Patch 1.03, save crashing has been contained and it might be fixed all together, but that goes to show that this can be a potential problem in the future if this kind of thing is possible.
+VixVixious
It's scary to think that there are people out there liking your comment unironically.
I think the main reason people take up issues with it is because people are acting like these bugs are new to these games, but things like a save crash bug happened even back in the day of PS2. Hell, they happened back in PSOne days. It's one of the main issues I take up with people - people acting like only now do bugs appear in games by "lazy" developers as if my Pong console didn't blank sreen on me.
The issue is being used to scapegoat new or alternate creators rather than looking at the core reason such a thing can happen (such as the bigger the game, the more ways it can break).
I don't care for speedrunning. I do not have the motivation to study a game's mechanics so meticulously for a few extra minutes shaved off my time record.
But I appreciate that speedrunners like you take the time to obsessively analyze a game I love and point out flaws I might have missed in a casual playthrough, so I can think about how games can be improved. And tbh Bl00dyBizkitz, I feel like you're one of the best examples. You're not afraid to criticize or even savagely roast (rip BBS) games held dear by the community, but don't come off as arrogant, contrarian just for the sake of being different, or shoving your opinion down our throats, at least to me.
Good on you for keeping a level head!
Also, if it wasn't for these vids, I wouldn't be learning the technical ins and outs of proper game design.
The issues in KH3 would affect casual players too
PokemonLyle nice avatar lul
PokemonLyle But the casual idiots never realize that because they have no proper understanding of the battle systems in any of the kingdom hearts games.
Kingdom080500 They're afraid to admit flaws in things they care about. I don't like admitting BBS is a bad game or that Re:coded serves no purpose, but I acknowledge those. Save crashing didn't affect my friend at all, but he heavily admits that save crashing was a huge problem. He's more casual but sees why I worry about KH3 a bit. D23's trailer eased my worries somewhat, though I still see that It's a bit... floaty.
Wel lalot of the stuff he complained about was more on the technical side of speedrunning. And most of it would never bother a normal player of the game. He is a speedrunenr so i think the analysis is fair.
TheViridian Maybe he was referring to the people who blindly defend Kingdom Hearts and think everything but Re:coded has no flaws? Casual idiots refers to those who blindly defend and not really just casuals. I'm sure the dude is a casual player, and I'm a casual player who speedruns too. It was poor wording at worst.
*Spends **8:33** talking about Kingdom Hearts*
UA-cam: "this video is about Persona 5 i think"
Pretty much, my friends shared it to me because they were amused that youtube sent it their way while binge watching Persona 5 stuff
huh, it's changed now. before it tagged the vid as Persona 5 in the description
It was guessing by the music I think
I've had music videos and the category would be sports.
If it wasn't for people like BB sending messages to Square and saying what's broken, we most likely wouldn't have the games fixed. Save crashing and the Final Xemnas fight were both HUGE problems for speedrunners and casual players alike. If anybody says that BB is too nit picky then I say good. We need people to hyper analyze the game. If anything, we should blame square for having the problems in the first place, not BB for figuring them out. I'm not a speedrunner but I hated these problems and I'm glad someone had the backbone to say something about it.
You have tons of people at your side BB. Don't let internet trolls get you down :)
hutchitl
and for the most part KH games are pretty solid. Only glitches I ever found were the famous End of World Destiny Island shack glitch, and that's it.
I've noticed that the PS3 ports could seriously lag sometimes, though.
Who the fuck are these people saying that "Oh the final boss having an impossible to dodge move thanks to bugs" is a speedrunner problem? When I played KH2 final mix on PS4 for the first time last year, that fight was really pissing me off on the Data version.
Be critical of the things you love, that is the only way for growth to occur
It's almost counter-intuitive, but it's almost as though those who can't accept criticism of their favorite game are afraid to admit if aspects of it could be improved. We all want what's best for KH3.
If anything, I feel that speedrunners of a game are often *as* -- or, in some cases, even *more* -- knowledgeable about how to make a game better than the actual developers of the game. Speedrunners not only know the story of the games that they run incredibly well, but they also have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of different game elements and mechanics with which to use for comparison and criticism. If a speedrunner makes a critique about some aspect of a game that seems concerning, it's wise to listen--these criticisms are often very fair assessments made only because speedrunners know better than anyone what sorts of considerations, from a gameplay standpoint, would be an enhancement or a detriment to the game
Agreed, runners have been beating the game over the head with a funny noise making sword for years, they know what makes the game feel and play good, and what makes it feel bleh and sluggish, because they've tried the good in the bad in their games, they've looked outside the "Spam Y Ability To Win" mindset for things that might be faster
You can see this in KH2 runs, they don't just spam Magnet and Reflect, you will see them pull out other spells for various tactical reasons
Cloudmonkey Not only that, but speedrunners get the most creative (not to mention most effective) use out of Magnet and Reflect, and they’re the first people to point out how broken it is. Summons fall into an opposite but similar case in that regard: they’re very useful support utilities but are ultimately outshined for various reasons: the game gives you little-to-no tutorial on them, they use up Drive (which is really bad early game since if they don’t work out for you, you just wasted your Drive meter, and it can be obnoxious for casual players to build up Drive meter), and they have little offensive practicality/usefulness, which is the reason Drive forms get so much more spotlight casually.
Yup because speed runners no the game better than casual and it makes the game easier if the causal players listen a bit and not flip out over a little mistake just when speed runners point it out in the end it just helps the creators fix in in a possible patch
Ethan Jessen In terms of figuring out what people would like, I'm pretty sure they'd do a better jobs than the devs. It's not always easy to recognize what stuff works and what doesn't. It's not too different from saying a pro player in a multi-player game knows what should make the game balanced
This video is old now but I have only just seen it.
Speed running has helped me be a better casual player, seeing the techniques you guys use and using them to enjoy the game in my own way. As for speed runners commenting on gameplay, I like to listen to your opinion as although I see the same thing you do, with you vast knowledge of the games mechanics the details you guys notice and far superior to what I see. Like you said that’s because you play them over and over.
Lastly, as for the story because it’s long and can be confusing at times people will always see it as good or bad. I personally like the story it tells but I’ve had a conversation with someone who thought it was bad and he made some good points, doesn’t change my mind that I thinks it’s good, it’s about perspective. You being a speed runner doesn’t change the story it just gives you a different perspective, you understand things different to what I understand them but again your perspective is different.
I trust the speedrunners more than i do the osaka team
Same. The 0.2 combat is fun, but feels too focused on spectacle, and less deep as a result. KH2 managed to get both down so well.
hey!
The who team?
The BbS team
watch out, this man is spittin facts
The way I always viewed speed runners are people who already beat the game once or twice. I myself am a grinder and collector, I feel like I get more out of my game that way.
I'm not even a speedrunner but I know how to be critical of the games I like. One of the things I hate hearing from fanbases is that "X Development team should focus on pleasing the ones who are actually supportive of the game/franchise instead of people like you". A few problems with this statement:
1. You're assuming I don't support the game/franchise just because I criticized it. I do support the franchise and want it to flourish.
2. That's why I need to be critical of what needs to be improved so that it CAN flourish. We'll use Sonic 06 as an example. There are people who like Sonic 06. I don't, but that's okay. But that game caused many to give up on the Sonic franchise. Should Sega have said "screw the people who left" and only focused to appeal to the people who enjoyed 06 or work harder to maintain the remainder of their supporters (assuming that those who left won't be coming back)? We're not even talking about a colossal failure like Sonic 06. I'm talking just certain aspects of a game I ACTUALLY LIKE. So is it really too much to ask for a just a FEW FIXES to the game? Obviously, if you're making a game, you want your audience to grow, not remain stagnant or God forbid fade away. That's why X Development team should not just appeal to their asskissers.
As a casual fan I heavily criticize the series. Like that Xemnas RC which is genuine BS and I have no idea why it broke in the first place. I don't see blind praise of a game good. Every game has flaws and being able to both enjoy the game and point out negative aspects shows a mature appreciation of a game or any product in that manner. Hell, as a Sonic fan, I am all too familiar with enjoying a game and harshly criticizing it to its core. I agree bl00dy, I'm critical because I want the series to succeed. I think it has faltered for a while, but not to the point of no return. Keep up the good content dude.
Xemnas RC? ReinCarnation?
Also criticsm (constructive ones) is important for evolution of everything existing! :)
Evilriku13 Reaction Command
Evilriku13 In II.5 final battle the reaction command doesn't work properly and usually you need to use a limit to survive as opposed to using the command the way it worked in the PS2 versions.
For me it's more about how often you do it and how annoying it can get if you disagree with said opinion. I personally enjoy DDD and BBS a lot, and constantly hearing that those games sucks get's frustrating when you came for a good time and get your opinion shit on constantly. Pointing out a flaw is something you should do, but if I'm watching a stream about someone playing, let's say BotW, and Skyward Sword is among one of my favorite in the series, and yes, I know it has issues, but love it despite them, and if they constantly bring up how much they dislike Skyward Sword unnecessarily often for comparison, like with the stamina gauge, you are likely to get a negative reaction from me eventually.
People are entitled to their opinion, and should mention stuff they have grievances with, but at one point, it's just unnecessary to keep going on. Like, in an analysis, it makes sense to bring up something that shows up, that looks like something that has been before that doesn't work out, yes mention it, but if you are playing a game, is it necessary to bring up every so often something that is 6 years old?
Did they fix it in the PS4 port? I was playing on LV1 Crit and noticed that the only time the Xemnas RCs got me was by pure bad timing (e.g. the uppercut attack coming out right in Sora's face).
Im pretty sure speedrunners play the game to enjoy it their first time b4 the jump into speedrunning it
When you're passionate about a series or a game, you don't want to see it miss out on any of it's potential. If a small things that could easily be different make the game inferior, it's frustrating. It's also frustrating how many people, throughout all sorts of fandoms and medias, don't seem to understand this basic concepts,
There´s an important part of every fandom for media that seems to hate any criticsm coming for some kind if professional.
I´ve seen this a lot. You are an artist criticizing something about the art department? Does not matter, that´s your opinion and your background is not to be considered. You´re a writter commenting on story structure? Does not matter, that´s your opinion and your background is not to be considered. Are you a musician saying something about how composition might be crewd? Does not matter, that´s your opinion and your background is not to be considered.
My take on this is the following: These people feel intimidated by the possibility of someone knowing more than them and, because they have attached their personality to the media they consume, take professional criticsm as a personal attack.
I think these people need to grow up and both acknowledge there are experts whose opinions are likely to have a better base than them and that they are not the media they consume.
I like speedrunners just to see how quickly they can beat some of the hardest bosses in gaming history.
I can't believe some kh fans. Watching speedrunners can even help casual players in some way. Speedrunners help casual players when the speedrunners make guides up, and explain the mechanics of the game better
99% of gamers don't watch or care a flying fuck about speedrunners. It's niche as you can get. This guy is bitching about a game that was 2 years from release. Of course he's gonna get shit on. Maybe he'll learn from it.
@@Dotoku14 Learn what exactly? And gamers should care about speed runners because they're typically the best players. He knocks KH2 out of the park by the time I'm done with like the first world cuz I'm a filthy casual. He's the reason I started to use reflect. CAN YOU BELIEVE I BEAT KH2.5 ON CRITICAL WITHOUT USING REFLECT?! I KNOW! WHAT A MORON I AM! Guess what's a lot faster: using reflect. KH2 gives you SOOOO many tools to use it's a shame to see 3 limit those options so heavily.
@@MaxLoafin And there is more too like...
You can beat Vanitas optional boss in Birth by sleep EASILY with Tornado(As Ventus) or Aerial Slam(As Terra, yes the "worst" character that the community said is accualy the strongest against it other than Aqua)
RNG manipulation for Re:Chain of memories
And there are more stuff that i manage to learn from Speedruners
"Problematic"
Gee I wonder where this is gunna g-
"Discriminated"
HE DID IT THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN
Right? Talk about being triggered on a whole other level..
GrimoireVoss Well I mean, that is exactly how their opinions are treated by a huge proportion of the fan base, and he explained exactly how. At the very least prejudice, if not full discrimination.
Gamers are truly the most OPPRESSED race
Like your profile pic!
Thank you!
Speedrunners are very talented and I for one appreciate their technical view of the trailer.
honestly speedrunner just sounds like an excuse. people have gotten incredibly defensive about BBS and DDD, and the whole "osaka team"
I'm not a speedrunner, I'm a mid level KH player, but people get so pissed at me when I talk about how good KH2 is compared to the rest of the games. There's claims of elitism and such because that's the only defense they have when presented with someone who knows more than they do.
it's honestly just fanboy stuff, the idea that "true fans" don't say bad things about what they like
Game Sharks
I like the abilities and how they work in KH2 more than the rest of the series.
But I do prefer the menu navigation introduced in BBS.
@@zachanikwano Combat-wise, KH2 is the best. And that's including 3. Story-wise, they're all tied for last. Menu navigation is fluid in almost all the games. Platforming was never a good idea in KH1, glad they toned the fuck out of that, way down in the next games. But even if there were platforming sections in KH3, you could just airdodge and attack alternately for a free glide. I kinda expect Sora to sink like a stone when gravity's involved. Seeing as how that was the case like 3 games ago.
Damn, I just like dual wielding 😔
I give speed runners my Praise for beating the data battle's and other secret bosses so fast takes skill
as a casual kingdom hearts player, i believe that you guys (speedrunners) love and enjoy the game more than us
I play the games casually and I was really happy when I discovered speedrun videos covering these games and saw people examining the combat system more in-depth, and that I wasn't the only one who had issues with the gameplay in BBS and DDD. Actual critical looks at this series are really hard to find, most people either just dismiss it outright or give generic "it's good, I liked it, this series is nostalgic" reviews. People who actually think about the mechanics of a game are hard to find, and I think members of the speedrunning community for KH are doing valuable work by holding the gameplay of the series up to a magnifying glass.
Do people realise you can 100% a game and be hardcore about its mechanics without being a speedrunner?
Honestly, I think the biggest problem is that speedrunners tend to hate spectacle. While KH2 had great feeling combos, Sora's moves were not all that flashy. The flashier ones tend to be the least used because they have a longer animation. When a lot of people play games like this, they tend to enjoy the flashiness becuse it looks and feels cool. It's why nine times out of ten, if you could kill an enemy that explodes, players will turn their back towards the explosions instead of running past it (unless the enemy is common) because that's "cool".
Speedrunners tend to look for efficiency over spectacle. This is also one of the reasons why they prefer Revenge Values - it lets you memorize a pattern and beat it through that memorization rather than luck and reflexes. It's efficient for a speed run.
The same issue shows up for how long a combo ends and the s involved.
And, I think that's where the issue comes in - they want to take out things people might consider fun for their fun - speedruns. While they talk about gameplay - it's from an efficent perspective rather than an entertaining one. While it being entertaining isn't a problem, it comes second to efficiency. No wasted movements, no wasted seconds, no flashiness, just the most efficent way possible.
I dont think they hate spectacle because they DO love showing off cool tricks.Stealing Roxas's Keyblades without them being a hindrance to your movements looks super cool.
fast and fluid combos, while being efficient, also means you have less chance of getting hit from a recovery animation.
and to be honest, while taking advantage of revenge values is still iffy in my opinion, no one likes luck and inhuman reflexes determining your survival. and I'm pretty sure not being able to complete a combo just feels plain upsetting, either by interruption or your own decision
in KH games you dont really have s in a basic combo, so the faster the combo is,the faster you regain control, the less the enemy can attack you. and anyone both casual and runners probably hates 1) getting hit 2) stopping your combo early just to avoid getting hit.
in the end, I dont really think they WANT those flashiness removed, they just need the in-between frames to be seamless so it gets to be flashy AND efficient.
Otherwise it's just Functions: the game.
bakkahentai2600 They don't hate spectacle, but spectacle often translates to "style over substance", the meat of the game or it's complex mechanics are sacrificed simply to wow the audience or the players, imagine if KH3 was simply a game where You pressed one button every once in a while but it resulted in giant finishers and long winded animations that only serve to make the game look cool. Substance is always preferable over style, and often times substance is what leads to style in the first place especially if You understand what's at stake. Like if You watch KH2 on Critical, it doesn't look super complex but You can understand that one or two hits can mean death so when something risky is pulled off, it ends up being stylish.
I'd rather have a game full of substance rather than a game full of style, even though both can be achieved and both are achieved in KH2FM, You'll have more fun coming back to a game with deep mechanics and style rather than a game that's just style with nothing keeping it interesting.
N W Z And how is prioritizing good controls, a good camera, and well designed combat counter intuitive to being enjoyable. Sorry but what the speedrunners for KH have in mind is a good well designed game that can be returned to time and time again, spectacle only lasts a little while, substance can last a long time.
His criticisms are also not just from a speedrunners perspective, He is not saying change the game for us speedrunners, He's saying make it the best it can be by making good choices in combat design, speedrunners deal with whatever game they're given, but a game that has poor choices is bad for everyone.
- The horrendous camera.
- The long ending lag.
- The somewhat floaty looking combos.
Those are all absolute flaws, that should be fixed and effect more than just speedrunners.
+Clone Loli The problem is, Speedrunners priortize efficiency over what the average playerbase consider fun. Unless they can kill really fast, I doubt a single speedrunner will use the robot shown, but for most players, the chance to do it and only in Toy Story will be far more fun for them. A lot of the "good conrols" usually JUST bothers speedrunners for a something taking an extra frame or two while most regular players won't even notice even when they jump from KHIIFM. Why? Because those couple extra frames don't matter in regular play but they add a bit of life.
Speedrunners will remove anything with flare if it takes time, they'll spam the hell out of a single move if it means winning faster, and they'll desire any little bits of extra animation that adds to characterization for Sora or the world to be removed. While balance, controls, and camera is important, it is not designed or balanced with speedrunners in mind.
Also, keep in mind that speedrunners play a game far more often to the point of monotony for the reputation (and donations) so they lose the excitement of flashiness through repition. The average player will beat it once or twice and put it away for a while until they feel like playing it - probably a year or so later or near a new sequel. They'll play less but enjoy the game more because they don't burn themselves out, and this also means spectacle will remain a joy for a lot longer.
Now I'm not arguing against making goodcombat. What I'm arguing against is speedrunner's idea of what makes combat good usually is just for them, not the playerbase.
4:13 - 4:25
I can vouch for that. I'm not a speedrunner, but I too have the same issues that make bosses more complicated. ( It even more so affects players doing Critical Level 1 runs such as myself.) It doesn't take a speedrun to notice glitches or flaws.
2 Years later and KH3 is considered midling among the the KH games in terms of quality.
It's almost like playing the games more leads to greater understanding of what makes them tick or something 🤔
I always thought that speedrunning was a fun challenge to do once you beat a game but wanted to play more of it? I'm aware now that speedrunnrs are actually very important and that this can actually help a lot of people thanks to this video. It's like criticizing art, and finding flaws helps everyone improve. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
God no. Speedrunning games is awful. You need to know every tech available or there is no point. It's better to reallocate the time allocation to work overtime or learn abilities for real world jobs.
That said I don't hate speedrunners.
When did wanting a game to actually be good turn into being toxic and cancerous? It makes no fucking sense to me.
Speedrunners make the games I like even more enjoyable.
I think the only instance in which a speed running mindset kind of goes against the casual experience and the general quality of the game, is when they criticize glitches getting patched up because they could use the glitch to save time. Eventho glitches are technically mistakes in the code which justifiably corporations, programmers and casual fans would like for them to be fixed and not to stain the general quality of the product.
Other than that yeah, speedrunners usually advocate for tight controls which is good for everyone.
Honestly i love your content i never have done a speed run walktrough but some strategys you use have helped me in lvl1 org battles and secret bosses just continue with your thing and always try to be better everyday believe me i see spedruners as how much time they dedicate to an specific game spedruners have talent just be you.
I think that you're analysis with your friend is just fine, people are dumb
ViologY i mess that up randomly
Ken Burgess dang...
Thanks for sharing BB. Also, totally love the P5 pyramid tunes you put in there.
You don't have to be a speedrunner to enjoy combat that's well balanced and has good gamefeel
I'm glad in particular that one of your last comments was brought up, that "speedrunning allows players to revisit some of their favorite games in a new way". A similar thing happened to me with Super Mario Sunshine; a game I loved dearly only became loved even more so when I began to dabble in speedrunning it. Seeing how far I myself could push the game is a feeling that is truly amazing, and it allows a person to truly master the mechanics of a game in a meaningful way, with an actual sense of advancement beween playthroughs. Now, I'm not a top tier speedrunner of Sunshine by any means; my times are terrible in the grand scheme of things compared to the world record, but I can still execute many of the core glitches and play the game in a way that, while still unoptimized, is far above the level of a casual player, and it feels very good to be able to control my character with such precision.
Speedrunning isn't for everyone, however, I think people should at least try casually picking up speedrunning for games they really enjoy. It can really enhance your love for a game, and give it replay value you had no idea it had.
I don't know why I'm even here. I'm into speedrunning as a whole, but have never even played a Kingdom Hearts game in my life, so I suppose that's how I found this video. However, I'll still say that many of the points you made rang true for me all the same despite not being a part of this community, and I definitely enjoyed your video.
How dare you voice concerns about my most favorite game in the whole world that has not even come out yet. I am a real fan, who has been complaining about getting a release date for years, but all you care to do is whine about how bad the game looks. Shame on you for not being a true fan of the series. 😜 Kappa
Yew Geneolgia thank the Lord the sarcasm is there.
No seriously fuck him
>kappa
Thank you for your speed run tutorial guide for Kingdom Hearts Final Mix it helped me out a lot with doing Unchanging Armor and the Speed Run Trophy.
Although I feel really betrayed by you speedrunners, I have to agree with you : when you criticize a game, it's for a good reason, to make it better ! Yes, sure you can enjoy the game like it is, but you can also notice even the smallest flaws no one cares about so they can be fixed, and that won't hurt, the things will change in a good way !
I've always had respect for speedrunners and the knowledge they have about games. Speedrunners just know how the game works and know the most efficient way to play the game they speedrun. Nice job making this video.
I know I'm late to this video, but it's not just speedrunners that get blown off by casuals. I'm not speedrunner, but I HAVE played all of the games released thus far, have watched other peoples' playthroughs, & studied through those & analysis videos on the mechanics to be decently knowledgeable about how the various games work. Yesterday, when I was watching Dansgaming livestream BBS, I brought up how KHII was more fluid & fast in terms of the combat, then some people immediately tried to pass me off as what they perceived as a "hater." I don't _hate_ BBS, but it could've used a lot of refinement in the gameplay department, BTW.
I then brought up how Terra's unbelievably stiff & another person said that's how he's supposed to be. Maybe, but when they had a refined version of Sora's KHI combat style with Limit Form in KHII FM, then Terra shouldn't control somehow worse than KHI Sora. My ultimate answer to people like these are, "play the games more than once or a few times & play them on their hardest difficulties, then you'll see what I mean," because when KHII FM has a Critical Mode with a good amount challenge & fexability, then there's no excuse why the games that follow it can't or don't. I'm currently doing a Critical Mode run of DDD & I can tell you that the game's mechanics are really bad in it, not even taking KHII FM into account, so I have more of an idea than casuals like you.
great video. if anything im really glad about speedrunners in KH. you guys found the coolest tech I would've never known about.
l think that the speedrunning community is a "quality control" community in KH, if the speedrunning guys says that the game is perfect, then it has tight controls, usefull gameplay mechanics, revenge value / staggered bosses, and every mechanic or element that made KH2 good (not taking into account, obviously, what makes the new game good as well). If fans so critical and technical about the game are happy with it then everyone in the community knows that there's nothing to fear, speedrunners are like the ultimate reviewers of KH.
I encourage these types of videos! I love hearing you opinion in the form of these video essays!! I love your personality so much
Not trying to start an argument here or anything, but I think the problem is more so how you guys come off about your opinions on the games rather than the opinions themselves. It's one thing to state an opinion, but I think it just comes off kind of unprofessional. Like I've seen people say shit like "if they like DDD then they're dumb" or "BBS is a bad game and if you think otherwise then your opinion is shitty" when really, it's all just a matter of personal preference. There's no real right or wrong in terms of what is good or bad. There seems to be this lack of objectivity.
For example, I'm really into music and I like to think of myself as somebody more astute in analyzing the intricacies of music more than others. And yes, while it annoys me that most people are into mainstream party music that I can't stand, I understand that everybody doesn't want to analyze lyrics and compositions the way I do. Most just want to go to a party and dance and have fun, and that's totally fine. But there's a certain... arrogance that comes from a lot of the KH speedrunner community, even if it's subtle. And I'm not talking about you specifically, but for instance instead of seeing some say "well for me personally, this is what I don't like" I see things like "this is what I don't like and people who don't see this are ignorant" and that's gonna ruffle some feathers, because it's making people feel like they're dumb or inferior just because they play the game casually.
Honestly, this is more of a "them" problem but I think that's where it comes from. It's just the way the opinions are presented like "ugh this is fucking dumb." It does get a tad annoying when every complaint made towards any of the new games is pretty much "it's not like KH2." KH3 clearly seems to be a culmination of multiple games in the series thus far (including KH2), so naturally, it probably won't feel the exact same. And many speedrunners seem to (just from my perspective, not sure if it's true) just want a KH2 HD Remake instead of a brand new game that WILL have differences and WON'T feel the exact same every time. You guys just come off more as "KH2FM fans" rather than general "KH fans" I suppose. I've even seen some people make fun of KH fans for wanting KH merchandise or certain preorder bonuses. Like... yeah, most fans want more KH merch, no?
There's a big divide here though. Fans who are casual towards the gameplay but hardcore for the series as a whole have a problem with KH gameplay enthusiasts sharing their opinions a certain way because it comes off as arrogant and fans who are hardcore for the gameplay but casual for the series/story seem to get annoyed at any complaints made towards the franchise's marketing because they feel like the gameplay should take precedence over anything else. I don't think either side is right or wrong, there's just a lot of miscommunication and a lack of understanding of the other side imo. We have to remember that our interests won't always align.
bashbro1able your not wrong for saying this I've heard speedrunners say "People actually like DDD that's stupid"
I've actually heard the same thing speedrunners say about BBS and DDD. Like BB tries to debunk these things in this video yet i've heard directly speedrunners say the things he is trying to debunk.
Exactly! This is the real issue I think people have had with BB or Bizkit. If the streamer and chat is being negative and disrespectful to both Nomura and the Osaka Team. That's really going to make a casual fan who likes to watch speedrunning. Not fun and interesting in watching it anymore. I understand and agree with pointing out flaws and discussing what you don't love about what's in the game and address what needs to be fixed. But be chill if someone doesn't agree with your Opinion and don't make fun of them for liking games that aren't like KH2FM.
Ex. Calling them stupid or saying "they're not real fans/Players because they like spamming easy commands"
Yeah exactly. And what gets me is their nitpicks. I can understand bigger problems like a lack of revenge value and enemies not staggering, but every nitpick is geared towards the speed of animations, as if KH was ever designed for speedrunners or to be beaten in a few hours. And they act like Sora should move like a robot who automatically stops at pin point precision. The little animations like Sora recovering or flipping to balance himself on a rail, it just seems a bit... idk, trivial? I mean I understand from their perspective, but I wouldn't say that's a problem with the game itself.
Well what I hate the most is they think complaining about it is magically going to get the game to be made how they want it to be made. Like KH2's combat hasn't been revisited since well.......KH2 which was 11 years ago, what makes them think that Osaka a entirely different team is going to make it play exactly like KH2 with it's snappy gameplay which is always speedrunners main complain.
I mean look at BB's trailer analysis, literally the entire 51 mins was basically slowing down the footage so he can show how the core game play wasn't 100% like KH2's core game play. He even mentions like 3 or 4 times about KH2's game play in that video so BB can't say speedrunners aren't concerned if KH3 plays like KH2 because in in his analysis all he does is compare it to KH2.
Look, it is a nostalgia type of thing going on. I got hyped after the first time I looked at the trailer like a fanboy of the series. In that regard, I can understand why people get angry towards you for "shitting" on the trailer analysis video based on that.
In my personal opinion, I watch these types of videos from speedrunners not because they speedrun the game but because of their knowledge of the gameplay. Let's be honest, speedrunners play the game significantly more than casuals and are looking at the mechanics based on previous games. These types of videos are important because someone like me that just sees hype needs someone else to bring me back into perspective so for that thank you for making this video.
Personally I like Kingdom Hearts speedrunners because I like to use the techs to make my casual playthroughs more interesting. Honestly until I watched you I would have never touched magnet or summons or use some of the more interesting ability combinations.
Nero Wiess Watching Data Org speedruns made me finish them all with ease
So basically, "Because you're a speedrunner" is code for "I'm upset that you're not completely happy with a game I love and on which my life depends on being great". Some of these guys literally get offended when you don't agree with them on everything.
This makes me so angry.
I know this video is over a year old and you have uploaded a new video as well, but the idea that only speedrunners care about kh2 mechanics just bothers me to no end. I've never done a speedrun in my life.
KH2 mechanics were so great and are the reason why I still play the game to this day. I can't say the same about any other KH games. The fact that people accept this descent into mediocrity in gameplay is unnerving.
People apparently don't understand that KH2 is used as an example against the faulty gameplay in other titles, and that people don't want KH2 again, but something new that's at least as good if not better.
But if the devs can't come up with something that works better, then yeah, I'd rather have KH2 system.
I like how Beneath The Mask started playing 1/4 the way in
I'm a casual fan and I criticize the series. I love Kingdom Hearts, been playing it since I was 13 and now I'm 27. Its allowed me to escape from the harshness of my abusive family back in the day.
However, how can no one *not* criticize the story elements of where the story is going or even the wait time for KH3? I'm holding my breath on that "2018" release by the way. I know this is a video on speedrunning but I know that #4 on this list, KH Speedrunners are definitely not the only ones criticizing the series.
Hey. I hope that things are going well for you nowadays.
Hell I'm a casual player and I watch speedruns for fun because they are fun to see how people basically break the game it's pretty cool. :)
You need to talk about the insane Clickbait in some KH UA-cam channels too, like thegamersjoint and stuff
Remember that time he said that 2.8 was available in the playstation store even before it was released, i remember.
without KH speedrunners I never would've known that magic spells like stop, fire, magnet, and reflect were OP
That's why you're defintely one of the best KH fans out there. lol
People are just stupid.
Raphael Millon "fan" lol
Maybe it's because I'm not huge into Kingdom Hearts (still like the series overall) but I didn't know there was that big of a speedrunning community exclusively for Kingdom Hearts.
Don't even bother taking offense from Kingdom Hearts fans. These are the same people that went to the orchestral concert in New York dressed in cosplay, and the same people that screamed *during an orchestrated performance and made it difficult to hear the music in the first place.*
I love Kingdom Hearts, but good god, an alarming amount of the fanbase act like children. While it is an E rated game, and of course young people will play it, there are people who don't act their age.
People have every right to criticize a game. If we all just "enjoyed a game for what it was," we would be stuck with a multitude of Superman 64s and ET the Game.
Also I'm just confused at what the thought process behind all of this is: why speedrun a game you don't enjoy? I might understand if it were a meme game, like Putt-Putt Goes to the Zoo or something, but not a game of this caliber...
The general problems I find with speed runners is their bad habit of wanting the entire game to be built around a speed run. Speed run should be the base - where the mechanics start and end for you to beat it extremely fast, but there is room for spectacle. The robots, for instance, are definitely there for casual fun, not efficient fun. As a speed runner, you'd ignore these things, but in a non-speed run even when playing on highest difficulty you might use them for fun or even if they slow you down, might make it easier to survive a level.
Of course, sometimes the abilities or enemies are balanced as well as they could allowing a lot of exploits. This naturally leads to things like Thunder Surge spam, but then I would never expect people to buy a single ability to spam and I doubt a developer would eithe because... well, because a developer wouldn't spam like that. It's also something that wouldn't really be tested either because it's such an arbitrary thing.
It's a case of "player vision" - players won't care for the integrity of the game as much as a developer and their separation from it gives them the vision needed to do things like spam abilities.
I find it's not about being built around a speedrun. It's just around how good the mechanics were in the previous games and knowing what were poor game choices in them too. KH2 is generally agreed upon to be a fantastic game because of how you could beat things casually, without needing speedrunner strats. Yeah, I would hope the robots are not necessary, but they could be, seeing how Reality Shift was a mechanic that you were forced to use in order to beat most bosses.
Exploits aren't necessary in the speedrunning community, but I find that they energize the speedrunners and motivate them to try new things. Thunder Surge spam is an exploit because of how necessary it was, and how much better of an option it was over other commands.
Zenith Tempest Wow bro.....dress is cosplay?
Nice ignorant statement you got there...
bakka, your example makes no sense because by your logic he wouldn't have given 2 fucks about the robots, as he'd have no intention to use them to begin with. The hitboxes being terrible only matter for casual players who are going to have a frustrating time in higher difficulties. Same thing with the combos that turn you into a target.
In fact, the thunder surge thing is another point that goes against your perception that they want games to be built around speed runs, if that was the case they wouldn't complain about BBS' many, many exploits since that is all they'd be interested in. Surges are rather easy to get in BBS, the problem is with how useless everything else tends to be: the game is not built around any of the hard to obtain cool-looking commands, it's built around spamming s. Think about it, why would they complain that "strong" commands in BBS turn you into a sitting duck if they never even go out of their way to get them? They do so because this is shitty design that doesn't reward the player for actually putting in the effort to get them, and that is only relevant for casual players since they are the only ones who would be tempted to load their decks with Ars, Megaflare, etc.
Look at Yoshi's island, another highly speedrunnable game, the maneuvers you have to pull to speedrun it are also really different from what casual play looks like just like BBS, but the game is designed really well for a casual playthrough so Yoshi's Island speedrunners don't complain about it at all. You don't seem to get that speedrun strats emerge after the game is already out and they have played it to death, people discover what is and isn't OP after the fact.
I'm as casual as you can get and I thought your analysis was just fine.
Welcome to 2017/2018: where even types of gamers can feel like a discriminated against community
Gamers are the most oppressed race
The year is 2020 and speedrunners have started their take over. They came to this planet and acted as humans when in fact, they are beasts that only look towards destruction. The speedeunners have started corrupting our young telling them that not every game is perfect and many have flaws. We need to fight back before all casual players turn into these beasts. Please join the casual resistance now!
Nice P5 BG music my dude, and i agree with everything you said in this video. The kh community, well most of it is cancer and ignorant.
Tbh, I agree with the comment above. The only acceptable fanbase I found, it's de Ace Attorney one, and it's very… special (weird.). I wouldn't judge the fanbase. There are dumbasses everywhere, but there are nice people too. I'd say the problem resides in Twitch's chat and UA-cam's comment section. Don't think the general opinion is what you see there. Usually the louder people are also the most stupid ones.
:flushed:
Loud minority, but seeing as how KH is appealing to a younger demographic there's less emphasis on minority and more on loud. (And literal minority)
Congratulations, you're part of the cancer. BB at least had the wherewithal to acknowledge it's a vocal minority but here you come along acting like you're better than everyone else who plays the same game and thus become part of the cancer.
👏
This is gonna make me sound super bad at KH but idc, watching your speedruns are the only way I was able to learn the intricacies of the data fights enough to beat them all.
Bloody: hey kh3 already i guess ill play it
Woody: YOU. ARE. A. SPEEDRUNNER
I honestly didn't even know there were KH speed runners. I must have missed them in GDQ
For me, it usually comes down to something like this. I find speedrunners focus so heavily on core combat, that they don't see the wood for the trees. If I say that I liked Birth By Sleep, and my speedrunner friend will say it's the worst in the series because Thunder Surge is OP, seeker mines are the best command, cartwheels make you almost invincible, and the lack of the revenge value system means that boss fights are inconsistent. And he's not wrong, but I like the combat in BBS for more reasons than just its balance, and I like BBS overall for more reasons than just its core combat gameplay.
I think that's why speedrunners get a bad rap for this stuff.
I personally love seeing speedruns of games I love because they usually show some more efficient ways to play through the game.
Like a quicker way through a boring segment or a faster kill on an annoying boss or even just an easy counter for a devastating blow.
I appreciate the speedrunning community and their ability to show core mechanics in a different light.
Jesus fucking christ... his comment... LOOK HOW LONG THE COMMENT WAS...
Great video BB, I personally view the speed running community of Kingdom Hearts as a necessary and important extension. It helps create more in-depth strategy and tech to an otherwise, "hack and slash" oriented game. Keep up what you're doing my man, also clean choice of music.
I wish you continued the advanced tech series
PokemonLyle yes yes he should
Personally, speedrunners actually help me appreciate the games more than I would have otherwise. They helped me realize how good certain game mechanics are that I never really used much, like magic and summons and limits, as well as helping me find safe and efficient ways to handle some of the games' toughest fights. I will always be grateful to KH speedrunners for helping me achieve an appreciation for the kh games that I never would have reached otherwise.
I enjoy the analysis. I think they're so cool and I think you guys make excellent gameplay points and reasons for all the criticisms you make.
That dude really made a three paragraphs wow. I'm even gonna lie I trust speedrunners more than the osaka team. Also not trying trying to sound like a kiss ass but if it wasnt for the speed runners I probably would have never done a level one run
Wow thats really interesting, I always look forward to speedrunner analysis over casual fans who hype everything up (ie TGJ) because critiquing a game from a technical standpoint is much more difficult than from a casual standpoint. Usually if youre excited enough about something, a casual review can be pretty bland and uninformative. But a "speedrunner" POV can really freshen up the discussion by taking into account all the little things about a game and really get into its pros and cons.
Maybe some people just cant take constructive criticism about their favorite games :/
I just want fast and flashy combat with tight controls and good balancing that creates good flexibility in enemy and boss designs.
1.5 years later i found this video. just finished KH3 in proud and I have to say KH3 is simply not fun to play.
the cutscenes were great, not sure about the combat system but I felt like proud = "i want to watch cutscenes" difficulty.
the health bar of sora is way too much that you do not have to worry about being hit. Just make sure you have turned on MP safety and spam all the spell out before you use heal and heal at the last minute. Then you are good to go.
The combat gives you a lot of Triangles to hit and the game tried to make you feel that you are doing so much but in fact you are not.
afterall i love the KH series but i am disappointed of the gameplay.
background of myself:
Not a very mechanically skilled player but i have managed to 100% both 1.5+2.5.
Also really hope this game gets a brady games guide, I wanna see another strategy guide run
but strimmer, if you care about the story so much, why won't you accept your destiny as ultimate loremaster of kh?
You haven't watched "The Video", right?
Hope you don't mind my asking but do you have a link?
what video?
everytime he says speedrunners take a shot
im dead
A minor gripe. PLEASE don't refer to non-speedrunner players as casuals. Admittedly people may not have made it their business to play the games to perfection in a 100% or any% capacity. Or may not know the inner workings inside and out. But that does not make them a casual. Some people can love this series and play the games every single day, hell, two of my friends loved kingdom hearts so much they got ENGAGED in Sora and Kairi cosplay. I do not think that qualifies as 'casual'. Please use another term when referring to fans who are not speedrunners. Even "regular fans" would be more accurate.
I play the series casually. I LOVE tuning in to AGDQ to see the KH speedrunners come up and break the game. I also find it crazy that people would think Xemnas' reversal command not working would be solely a speedrunning problem because that's just straight up a broken port
Huh. Even as a mostly casual player most of your criticisms were very legitimate. The hitbox on the arm of that giant dude in Olympus is HORRENDOUS, and the camera at the beginning of the trailer is pretty wonky, even if it does "fix" itself after a few seconds. (Although the trailer might be using purposely cinematic cameras and the came might not actually play like that? No way to know, though.)
If you've played KH2, you cannot look at the combos in KH3 and not say they're slow as hell. I don't mind flashy attacks for, say, the hyper hammer or those command styles, but give me quick and simple keyblade combos, please.
Its not even that they are slow, its the end lag on swings, maybe they were performing combos slowly in the dev builds for better visibility on each attack, but it looks bad floating there for a second between each attack
I think this is the first time I've ever commented on one of your videos, but I've been lurking KH speedrun videos and streams for years. I think the content you (and other runners like Bizkit and Spider) create is fantastic and I really value your viewpoint because of how knowledgeable you (and other runners) are. Keep up the good work BB, thanks for keeping me glued to KH even after all these years.
I can't believe how stupid and ignorant some people can be. Not about Kingdom Hearts or Speedrunning, but about videogames itself.
I mean, shit, if you enjoy the medium enough to go out of your way to find and look at a 50 minutes video of analysis of a trailer for a game that will be published next year, you should AT LEAST try and understand what a videogame fucking is.
Big news everyone: a videogame is a GAME. It's interactive. The gameplay it's the number one thing of interest, not the story, not the art style, not the music, the gameplay. All these "speedrunner stuff that no one cares about" actually are pretty damn important. These "3 frame animations" and "slow combos" are the reason why Kingdom Hearts BBS 0.2 is less fun than KH2, the details such as revenge value and "speedrunner shit" like that is what changes the experience, the thing is that most people will just feel the game as different, a speedrunner is going to understand why it's different and potentialy criticize the difference, if it's bad gameplay-wise. And, guess what, since speedrunners know a lot of details about the game mechanics their opinion counts more than your, period. For real people, get you heads out of your anuses sometimes.
Simocick In KH's case, it uses a lot of cutscenes to tell it's story, so it's more important for that to be good than most games. Even so, yeah, gameplay plays a bigger part in enjoyment of a game than anything else, even the little things that you don't consciously notice or think about.
Levi Sullivan Yeah, don't get me wrong, the story in a videogame can be very important and I too enjoy a good story in a game, but people shouldn't forget that it's videogames we are talkin about, and a videogame with a great story but a bad gameplay is always going to be worst than a game with no story and a great gameplay!
it's not just speedrunners.. I find most youtube comment sections to be toxic when it comes to criticizing fans, newcomers and much more.
I only disliked the analysis because it was a little hard to follow with you and Dax talking over each other sometimes. I think everyone hopes the game is good and does well. I also really hope it's fun as a casual experience and as a speedrun. Everyone should want people to have a good time with the game no matter what they are looking for from it. I want the game to be enjoyable and good in as many aspects as it can be. However I do have some points that are not meant to be mean nor discriminate.
Speedrunning is a unique and fairly well known way to play games to freshen up your favorite games as you said. However, some things that a few speedrunners say can be quite... mean and borderline disrespectful which unfortunately tends to view the whole community in a certain way. In your amazing SGDQ run of KH 2 it was said during the run that no one there remembered the story of the game and that it was confusing nonsense. No one challenged that assertion and it even got a laugh. I know that this was for a joke, but I don't doubt most of you don't really know the details of the story. This is an unfortunate aspect of the commentary because obviously there is a lot of tech to go over and it isn't a super long speed game. However, the FF7 community gave a very good and in depth explanation of the story as it happened. Now I am aware this is because you can't skip cutscenes and they might as well do it, but they do know the game and the story. It came across like the KH 2 speedrunners don't care about the story which is unfortunate.
Another thing that bugs me is that often when people don't see the problems that speedrunners see or there is a disagreement I have seen several speedrunners call people stupid. I love Bizkit047, but he is a pretty major offender in this area. Some people do say dumb things in his comments, and some people make bad arguments. However, he fairly often responds with "Are you retarded?" I am aware he has to put up with a lot and probably gets sick of going over things so much. However calling people stupid and retarded is not a great look. Also in his twitch chat people MAUL people who don't know what a speedrun is. People see someone with a lot of viewers playing KH on Twitch and drop in. I saw one poor dude show up and ask why he doesn't level up after a death, and Biz plus the chat were vicious. I'm almost positive that person left after that.
This doesn't mean everyone who speedruns is like that, far from it honestly. But when some of your most well known community members act a certain way and gain sort of a reputation it can begin to affect how people view you. Honestly B00dy you are a good person and I know you do your best to put out information and be nice. I do have a question though, if you did in fact read all of this. Do you think speedrunning has affected your analysis and judgement of the series? If you were just a casual fan do you think you would feel the way you do? Because I know speedrunning changes how you think about a game, it has to. Do you think it is unfair when people claim your criticisms stem from you being a speedrunning (minus all the really rude stuff some people say)?
I agree for Bizkit047 this guy is just a jerk haha (even if his videos like data org tutorial are cool)
Sparda You have a link to said stream? I'm not doubting you in any sense, just curious as to how arrogant the stream (Biz included during this stream by your claims) was when this happened
Sparda I don't think Bl00dy has ever been a dick for just asking a question. or his chat (I'm there most of the time)
He is talking about bizkit047 , that's not the same guy lol
I did specify Bizkit047 for a reason. Bl00dy is a good guy, I don't recall him ever calling anyone stupid. Biz on the other hand does it... pretty often. I can see why you were confused, I hope that clarifies it.
2:15 - Define irony - Kingdom Hearts fans labeling others not of their kind as _"elitist who think they are better than everyone"_
I understand what you're saying but one of the things you complain about is how many frames a finisher takes. Only a speedrunner would care if an animation takes 9 frames as opposed to 6.
Hey BB, this is the most appropriate video to write this.
Years ago i dropped kh but then i saw your run at GDQ with Bizkit of data fights and it motivated me to get kh2fm again and try critical mode and lvl1 for the first time.
Thanks BB, also your and MieDax's commentary about Sonic 06 (masterpiece lol) at GDQ is still funny as hell.
a video crying about the trials, tribulations, "labeling", and "stereotyping" that you have to put up with when you're in a niche, of a niche, of a niche community. am I supposed to take this shit seriously? is this a comedy video?
Good video, it was something that needed to be addressed. I think everybody would be much more accepting of KH speedrunners if they realised that the critisisms that they gave is more than likely what lead to the patches, which have made the games a better experience for everyone, not just speedrunnes.
Sooooo...what's the difference between lumping everyone together and invalidating their arguments by calling them a speed runner....and lumping everyone together as casuals and saying their criticisms are dumb and baseless? Haha. I'd say there are points to be made from most sides. Hell, not everyone seemed to agree with what you are saying in the video. People aren't always just being dumb haters. I personally wouldn't consider myself a casual player, but not a speed runner either. More like a completionist. I have a lot of knowledge on the games and replay them quite frequently. I do find that for most games the speed running community comes off as very entitled and acting like they are the true elite players. It might not be intentional, but I've come across it a lot. Just some thoughts, I dunno. I pretty much just consider everyone fans and that's it.
I never lumped all the casual fan's opinions together and called them dumb and baseless.
the "Osaka" games had my favorite battle systems and throwing them out in favor of generic spells, reaction commands and *more menus* feels like a huge step back. I know its a kids' game but it doesnt have to be simplistic.
I think I'll share this video to get the word across
Whenever it came to speedruning I always figured you'd play the game from start to end, figure out certain things you can do to make your time faster, and then BOOM your start the run