Your sermon really touched me. I have sin against The Lord our God and against my loved ones. I am repenting, crying out to the Lord to forgive me. I have been punished for my sins. I really need the Holy Spirit to strengthen me and to renew my mind, my body and my spirit. Pray for me please.
In 2019 I was almost blind, but God was merciful and I had to underwent treatment with a belief that God will heal me. Glory to God after more than a year I no longer had the same problem that I had before. With a lot of financial problems that I have I was tested positive with Cobid 19. God Almighty was still merciful to me. I now gave my heart my soul my body and my mind toJesus and commit myself my daughters my family and my love ones in His hands. I will go no longer be frightened and dismay God is our HOPE
@@alarishalangstieh6553 What reason do you point to in order to call it a "punishment for sin"? Could it be a demon having fun, or a witch casting spells, or caused by something other than your "sin"? ....Sin does not even acknowledge all that is immoral..tell me how to undertand it is a sin to consider a foreign person to be your inhertable property...???...To put it another way...Is foreign chattel slavery is a sin? ....NO, It is never been a sin...
Wow, I just learned of you Paul. At 74-years old, a 22-year widow, because I was called a hypocrite, and I discovered that I really was because I did not know God and Christ. Once I started to seriously studying God's word, I found Hebrews 4:12 is what I truly caused me to declare that in my heart, mind and soul I'm a true widow. Not perfect, but my focal journey is being calibrated by the Word of God. Bless your heart for boldly proclaiming the True Gospel of Jesus Christ from Genesis to Revelations.
I think the Lord for His Truth. It's beautiful and sure. I pray the Lord help us and we will be helped. Help us to change and to overcome by the power of your Spirit. Sanctify
If you are going to mention morality and expect me to agree then we should be able to agree on what other things are immoral/moral.....Is it morally acceptable to be allowed to purchase another human and consider them property that you can pass on to your children as an inheritance?
1. 2. 3. When you sin sin against God you not only ignore the commands of God but you ignore the person of God Himself 4. Immortality demonstrates a gross disregard for the Spirit whom God has given us
I thank God for this words u have heard todat from brother Paul, God bless you sir. I have been involved in sexual imorality for a very long time, i got in to it cos i started watching pornography from a very tender age and i has eaten into my live till this day. I tried fighting it but i guess i didnt have the right knowledge to do that. Married now for some years and sufferingbfrom something i thing its as a result of my act. This message has really brought me the true knowledge, that which i needed, God have mercy on me and restore me, in the name of your precious son Jesus Christ.... amen
John G. Paton was a missionary who evangelised a violent island where everyone, both men and woman, wear little to no clothing. In his book, The Story of John G. Paton or Thirty Years Among South Sea Cannibals, John G. Paton records this incident about a native man and woman who became Christians and then wanted to marry but feared they would be killed because there were a few men who wanted to marry the woman:
"In a few seconds, Yakin entered and if Nelwang’s bearing and appearance were rather inconsistent with the feeling of worship (he was wearing a shirt, kilt and tommahawk, John G. Paton felt it inappropriate to wear an emblem of violence to church)- and what on earth was I to do when the figure and costume of Yakin began to reveal itself marching in? The first visible difference betwixt a Heathen and a Christian is that the Christian wears some clothing, the Heathen wears none. Yakin had determined to show the extent of her Christianity by the amount of clothing she could carry upon her person. Being a Chief’s widow before she became Nelwang’s bride, she had some idea of state occasions and appeared dressed in every article of European apparel, mostly portions of male attire, that she could beg or borrow from about the premises! Her bridal gown was a man’s drab-coloured great-coat, put on above her native grass skirts and sweeping down to her heels, buttoned tight. Over this she had hung on a vest and above that, again, most amazing of all, she had superinduced a pair of men's trousers, planting the body of them on her neck and shoulders and leaving her head and face looking out from between the legs - a leg from either side streaming over her bosom, arid, dangling down absurdly in front! Fastened to the one shoulder also there was a red shirt and to the other a striped shirt waving about her like wings as she sailed along. Around her head, a red shirt had been twisted like a turban, and her notions of art demanded that a sleeve thereof should have a loft over each of her ears! She seemed to be a moving monster-loaded with a mass of rags. The day was excessively hot, and the perspiration poured over her face in streams. She, too, sat as near to me as she could get on the woman’s side of the church. Nelwang looked at me and then at her smiling quietly, as if to say, “You never saw in all your white world, a bride so grandly dressed!” I little thought what I was bringing on myself when I urged them to come to church. The sight of that poor creature sweltering before me constrained me for once to make the service very short - perhaps the shortest I ever conducted in all my life! The day ended in peace. The two souls were extremely happy, and I praised God that what might have been a scene of bloodshed had closed thus, even though it were in a kind of wild grotesquerie!"
I have been a Christian for 38 years, single & I still don’t know how to win against sex immortality. Gods word’s only solution is flee, get married. It’s not that simple & it leaves many single Christians feeling hopeless. God doesn’t guarantee a wife or husband for all Christians. Many of us are barely hanging onto our faith because we don’t have a concrete solution to deal with sexual urges other than masturbation. Here come the masturbation is sinful comments!🙄
Hey, you're not alone in your struggles, and there's no need to feel ashamed. I can relate to your battles. My trust in the Lord has wavered at times due to unmet desires for a partner. Additionally, early exposure, as young as 7, to pornography, masturbation, and past sexual assault during my adolescence, have made it difficult to resist sexual temptation. When I'm alone at home with nothing to do, it was so easy for the devil to tempt me into porn and masturbation. Likewise, mindlessly scrolling through my phone or watching media with sexual content has also led me down this destructive path on countless occasions. Guilt and self-loathing followed every single time I succumbed to this sin. It was only recently I felt so consumed by this sexual sin that I sensed myself drifting farther from God and I cried out to Him. The Holy Spirit convicted in my heart that if I continued on this destructive path, it will only be a matter of time that I will be given to it completely. After confessing and seeking forgiveness of my sins, I deliberately chose to immerse myself in the word of God and maintain constant communion with Him through prayer, both day and night, to fortify and safeguard my heart and mind. This continuous renewal is essential for remaining steadfast on the right path. As I delved deeper into God's word, I became more mindful of my thoughts and what I allowed into my mind. Moreover, I found that the word of God gradually strengthened my faith in Jesus, helping me trust Him even in the face of temptations like sensual thoughts and negative feelings of loneliness or unfulfillment. While I strive to deepen my love for Jesus by studying the Bible and obeying His commands, I would pray daily and ask God to renew my love for His word, grant me diligence, provide me with understanding and wisdom to grasp profound scriptures, give me grace and strength to overcome temptations, and guide me to a spouse according to His perfect will and goodness. Some verses I find solace in: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11: "Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Peter 5:8: "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Proverbs 3:5-6: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. Whoever you are, God loves you and He knows the very core of your needs and He wants to bring genuine fulfillment that can only be satisfied by Him.
You can have a better moral compass without the bible, as it allows you to consider another person your property that you can pass on to your children as an inheritance...Do you think that is morally acceptable?
@Elpsychonaut "That here only works with the lens of what is going on today vs the historical accuracy of the Bible."...I realize you are trying to make a point about something today vs the Bible, but this sentence does not make sence to me, nor does it help me understand if you consider purchasing people and considering them property that you can pass on to your children as an inheritance morally acceptable which is what I was asking.... "Do you even know why people were servants it slaves during that time or are you going to ignore that and just use your lens of today"....Can you define chattel slave to see that considering someone property is a bit different from being a "servant"???....I am pointing to the bible allowing foreign chattel slavery as stated in Leviticus in addition to Hebrew debt slavery as stated in Exodus which you might be mistaken about Are you suggesting that slavery was moral, but became immoral...If so, when did it become immoral? If I have not come close to understanding what you meant then I apologize, but can not read your mind, so please clarify what you mean as if you needed to explain it in simple terms to a child....That way it might not be so cryptic
@Elpsychonaut "During the time frame of the books of the bible you pointed out. People could pay off they debts with working. They were servants, and yes some being slaves. As the norms of the times were and largely still are in those areas. (cobalt mining, muslim concentration camps China, the state of human trafficking and sex slavery after the fall of Ghedaffi , etc). The slavery in the bible actually had rules for how to treat your servants and slaves until debts could be repaid."...I appreciate that you realize there is more than one form of slavery which is why I asked you to define "chattel slavery", as it is that specific type of slavery that I am asking about. "( Looking at current times yes slavery is wrong to us now, but not really if we are not demonizing the slave labor largely going on to benefit Americans today for cheap goods.) Slaves were also the spoils of war. As you know the from where you are reading in the bible. Even Gods chosen people were slaves in Egypt at the time. Slavery and human nature go hand in hand because man is wicked. You will always have one person trying to force they influence on another. (including myself and yourself) Your problem seems to be that it happened and was recorded in the Holy Bible as well as had rules on how slaves and servants were to be treated....My problem is NOT that historical facts are "recorded" in the Bible, but that the scripture gave "authorization" of the action without ever condemning the immorality of the action "If your problem was with slavery back in the day existing, i agree with you it is wrong, but would you rather have rules in regards to how they are treated or not? "....Yes, rules are better than no rules with any action you allow someone else to perform...I am not asking how to improve your ability to remove another human's freedom and personhood....I am asking about what is morally acceptable. Does adding rules increase the morality of slavery enough to make it morally acceptable? "The Bible is the word of God. God is the only thing that can be considered Good. Everything else is wicked."...Could you define your use of "good" here, as it sounds like you want to click your heels together three times...lol. "Man left to his own devices does just devolve into an argument of better or worse rather than right and wrong without it."...To be fair, I do not know what argument you are talking about or why those are the only choices...Or what that even means....Are you claiming that an argument can NOT be better and right, or better and wrong...as well as worse and right or worse and wrong? How do you recognize the morality of action? To clarify....How do you differentiate moral/amoral/immoral actions from each other?
@Elpsychonaut I appreciate the reference points...makes it so much easier, but I realize from experience that it makes composing the message harder,...It does help communication a great deal though, so I wanted to acknowledge it and thank you for the extra effort... "*How do you recognize the morality of action? I follow the word of god after praying for understanding, wisdom, and guidance because I cannot know better than God. "...I realize I may not have worded the question well enough, as I am asking for the method you use to differentiate a moral action from an immoral action from an amoral action, or do you have to pray for understanding each time before you can recognize if the action is moral, amoral or immoral? "*Are you claiming that an argument can NOT be better and right, or better and wrong...as well as worse and right or worse and wrong? No, I am claiming that without the word of God we are left with just better or worse arguments, or the lesser of two evils over what is right and wrong, or Good and bad. "....Are you aware that there was an earlier time before the word of an Abrahamic God was even mentioned around any campfire? Are you suggesting that the people at this "earlier" time did not have a concept of right/wrong or good/bad, or it did not exist until someone started telling stories of the Abrahamic God? "*"...Could you define your use of "good" here, as it sounds like you want to click your heels together three times...lol. God is sovereign. He spoke existence into being. He says that he is Just, and good. Therefore he is good. This was a major hurdle for myself when I was an ashiest so long ago. The problem was indeed that God is good, man is not. In every sense or iteration you can think of. "...I understand and appreciate that you think it would be helpful for me to know all this other information. Please realize that none of this other information helps me understand how you defined "good" in the sentence you used which I was unsure about before, and still am even now, because you did not offer the information I was asking for... *....Yes, rules are better than no rules with any action you allow someone else to perform...I am not asking how to improve your ability to remove another human's freedom and personhood....I am asking about what is morally acceptable. Does adding rules increase the morality of slavery enough to make it morally acceptable? **My problem is NOT that historical facts are "recorded" in the Bible, but that the scripture gave "authorization" of the action without ever condemning the immorality of the action Adding rules does not make things morally acceptable. Since it is defined in the word of God the rules are Good vs the alternative of no rules. Examples being what is happening in this day and age ( cobalt mining, companies using slave labor in America via the prison industrial complex etc. etc.) "...What is the "it" that is defined in the word of God? Does "it" mean "rules" in this statment? Are you saying ....since the rules come from the Bible then they are good vs not having rules...Does that mean if the exact same rules were in another religious text that, the rules would no longer be good? "Suffering, including slavery, is just a part of human nature. It is why we are a wicked creation. The Bible does end up calling it out with Jesus. The son of God, god in the flesh. Would you like to know more about him? God sent him to die for everyone. To take the sins of everyone in order to take the entirety of gods wrath so that he could save humanity from its depravity and wickedness. He does love you"...Does Jesus tell us that slavery is condemned....or even unwanted? Is slavery even considered a sin by the Bible?
@Elpsychonaut I would love to talk to you about this forever if youd let me. I talk about this with my wife all the time because she is still and athiest. ( i am assuming you are an athiest and will correct me my kid was logged in on that work work reply = ])....Depends on your definition of athiiest, as I welcome the truth of any claim, but have not been convinced in any of the many god claims available in the world today...It is possible one or many are true. I just have not been convinced that any are true yet...As long as you can define my position correctly I do not care about the label used to represent it... For clarity concerning an earlier term I asked you to define...I realize you may have just missed it as I do tend to ask a few questions...Allow me to help by offering a defintion to see if you have issues with the term I am referencing...I define chattel: an enslaved person held as the legal property of another : BONDMAN
@Elpsychonaut "...I realize I may not have worded the question well enough, as I am asking for the method you use to differentiate a moral action from an immoral action from an amoral action, or do you have to pray for understanding each time before you can recognize if the action is moral, amoral or immoral? There is no method, the laws are written on believers and unbelievers hearts."...How does someone understand/interpret/read what is written on their own heart or someone else? Ok, so if the laws are written on everyone's hearts must mean that everyone understands morality the same and agrees on what actions are morally acceptable...Right?...Unless what is written is different for each person... "What is moral is what I am commanded to do as a follower of Christ."...Do you use your own understanding in order to know what you are being commanded to do as a follower of Christ? "If i lean on my own understanding it will fail"...How do you know you are not currently failing at understanding what is written on your heart without realizing it? ."...Are you aware that there was an earlier time before the word of an Abrahamic God was even mentioned around any campfire? Are you suggesting that the people at this "earlier" time did not have a concept of right/wrong or good/bad, or it did not exist until someone started telling stories of the Abrahamic God? I used to think that there was a time before the Abrahamic God. I no longer think that. I wholeheartedly believe that god literally spoke existence into being in 6 days and slept on the seventh. You know because I am a follower of Christ."....Sorry, but I may need to rephrase, as I was not talking about God but the "word of God"...If you understand the Torah to be the word of God then there was a time before "the word of God" was anything more than separated stories told around a campfire " ...What is the "it" that is defined in the word of God? Does "it" mean "rules" in this statment? Are you saying ....since the rules come from the Bible then they are good vs not having rules...Does that mean if the exact same rules were in another religious text that, the rules would no longer be good? "It" is the laws referring to the Bondservant or slavery in its forms you keep bringing up. "....Does that mean that if the exact same rules were held by another religion that the rules would no longer be....good? "My problem is NOT that historical facts are "recorded" in the Bible, but that the scripture gave "authorization" of the action without ever condemning the immorality of the action. I get that. If you think of what you think is right and wrong you will probably always stumble at this block. You sound like me when i was dead in my sin."....I do not know what "of what you think is right and wrong", and "stumble at this block" means. Can you explain the difference between "recording historical fact" to that of "giving permission" to a group of people to PURCHASE other people and consider them property...? "...Does Jesus tell us that slavery is condemned....or even unwanted? Is slavery even considered a sin by the Bible? No, but wonderfully enough you are enslaved to him once you learn about the gospel. "...To clarify....Do you believe biblical slavery is morally acceptable because the Bible considered it morally acceptable or all slavery acceptable because the bible never condemns slavery unless the person is Hebrew? ".I understand and appreciate that you think it would be helpful for me to know all this other information. Please realize that none of this other information helps me understand how you defined "good" in the sentence you used which I was unsure about before, and still am even now, because you did not offer the information I was asking for... You can just think of it like a math equation. God= good or Good = God. "... Am I Good? "...I realize I may not have worded the question well enough, as I am asking for the method you use to differentiate a moral action from an immoral action from an amoral action, or do you have to pray for understanding each time before you can recognize if the action is moral, amoral or immoral? You follow the laws/ commandments written in your heart and in the word of God. If you are not following his commandments its immoral."....If I understand God to be commanding me to kill my son, then is the act of me killing my son morally acceptable?
Your sermon really touched me. I have sin against The Lord our God and against my loved ones. I am repenting, crying out to the Lord to forgive me. I have been punished for my sins. I really need the Holy Spirit to strengthen me and to renew my mind, my body and my spirit. Pray for me please.
what was your punishment?
In 2019 I was almost blind, but God was merciful and I had to underwent treatment with a belief that God will heal me. Glory to God after more than a year I no longer had the same problem that I had before. With a lot of financial problems that I have I was tested positive with Cobid 19. God Almighty was still merciful to me. I now gave my heart my soul my body and my mind toJesus and commit myself my daughters my family and my love ones in His hands. I will go no longer be frightened and dismay God is our HOPE
@@alarishalangstieh6553 🙏🏾 Amen
@@alarishalangstieh6553 What reason do you point to in order to call it a "punishment for sin"? Could it be a demon having fun, or a witch casting spells, or caused by something other than your "sin"? ....Sin does not even acknowledge all that is immoral..tell me how to undertand it is a sin to consider a foreign person to be your inhertable property...???...To put it another way...Is foreign chattel slavery is a sin? ....NO, It is never been a sin...
Wow, I just learned of you Paul. At 74-years old, a 22-year widow, because I was called a hypocrite, and I discovered that I really was because I did not know God and Christ. Once I started to seriously studying God's word, I found Hebrews 4:12 is what I truly caused me to declare that in my heart, mind and soul I'm a true widow. Not perfect, but my focal journey is being calibrated by the Word of God.
Bless your heart for boldly proclaiming the True Gospel of Jesus Christ from Genesis to Revelations.
The sermon series on this subject has been absolutely a blessing! May The Lord bless you abundantly Pastor Paul Washer!
I think the Lord for His Truth. It's beautiful and sure.
I pray the Lord help us and we will be helped. Help us to change and to overcome by the power of your Spirit. Sanctify
So convicting. We all take sin so lightly in this age. Thank you, Paul Washer, for this three part series.
Is slavery moral as long as the bible does not consider slavery a "sin"?
Where is part 2
I have never heard a better teaching on sexual immorality! Praise God for men like you Paul Washer!
If you are going to mention morality and expect me to agree then we should be able to agree on what other things are immoral/moral.....Is it morally acceptable to be allowed to purchase another human and consider them property that you can pass on to your children as an inheritance?
The church needs this sound preaching,,so sad when even some close family members,,think they can live like this,, and talk spiritual
All true love comes from God
Man... I love Paul Washer, so hard to get the unadulterated truth Now days without stepping on someones toes
All true wrath comes from God
Thank you so much for posting this sermon series!
You're welcome!
1.
2.
3. When you sin sin against God you not only ignore the commands of God but you ignore the person of God Himself
4. Immortality demonstrates a gross disregard for the Spirit whom God has given us
Great sermon series :)
I thank God for this words u have heard todat from brother Paul, God bless you sir. I have been involved in sexual imorality for a very long time, i got in to it cos i started watching pornography from a very tender age and i has eaten into my live till this day. I tried fighting it but i guess i didnt have the right knowledge to do that. Married now for some years and sufferingbfrom something i thing its as a result of my act. This message has really brought me the true knowledge, that which i needed, God have mercy on me and restore me, in the name of your precious son Jesus Christ.... amen
This is such a blessing to my heart.
As studies have shown, a person fighting addiction does not have to ‘lose’ progress when they relapse.
John G. Paton was a missionary who evangelised a violent island where everyone, both men and woman, wear little to no clothing. In his book, The Story of John G. Paton or Thirty Years Among South Sea Cannibals, John G. Paton records this incident about a native man and woman who became Christians and then wanted to marry but feared they would be killed because there were a few men who wanted to marry the woman:
"In a few seconds, Yakin entered and if Nelwang’s bearing and appearance were rather inconsistent with the feeling of worship (he was wearing a shirt, kilt and tommahawk, John G. Paton felt it inappropriate to wear an emblem of violence to church)- and what on earth was I to do when the figure and costume of Yakin began to reveal itself marching in?
The first visible difference betwixt a Heathen and a Christian is that the Christian wears some clothing, the Heathen wears none. Yakin had determined to show the extent of her Christianity by the amount of clothing she could carry upon her person. Being a Chief’s widow before she became Nelwang’s bride, she had some idea of state occasions and appeared dressed in every article of European apparel, mostly portions of male attire, that she could beg or borrow from about the premises!
Her bridal gown was a man’s drab-coloured great-coat, put on above her native grass skirts and sweeping down to her heels, buttoned tight. Over this she had hung on a vest and above that, again, most amazing of all, she had superinduced a pair of men's trousers, planting the body of them on her neck and shoulders and leaving her head and face looking out from between the legs - a leg from either side streaming over her bosom, arid, dangling down absurdly in front! Fastened to the one shoulder also there was a red shirt and to the other a striped shirt waving about her like wings as she sailed along. Around her head, a red shirt had been twisted like a turban, and her notions of art demanded that a sleeve thereof should have a loft over each of her ears! She seemed to be a moving monster-loaded with a mass of rags.
The day was excessively hot, and the perspiration poured over her face in streams. She, too, sat as near to me as she could get on the woman’s side of the church. Nelwang looked at me and then at her smiling quietly, as if to say, “You never saw in all your white world, a bride so grandly dressed!”
I little thought what I was bringing on myself when I urged them to come to church. The sight of that poor creature sweltering before me constrained me for once to make the service very short - perhaps the shortest I ever conducted in all my life! The day ended in peace. The two souls were extremely happy, and I praised God that what might have been a scene of bloodshed had closed thus, even though it were in a kind of wild grotesquerie!"
No comment!
23:00
28:00
How could you cut off the prayer?
46:25
56:24
54:28
37:03
Why are we cutting off the prayers?
I have been a Christian for 38 years, single & I still don’t know how to win against sex immortality. Gods word’s only solution is flee, get married. It’s not that simple & it leaves many single Christians feeling hopeless. God doesn’t guarantee a wife or husband for all Christians. Many of us are barely hanging onto our faith because we don’t have a concrete solution to deal with sexual urges other than masturbation. Here come the masturbation is sinful comments!🙄
Hey, you're not alone in your struggles, and there's no need to feel ashamed. I can relate to your battles. My trust in the Lord has wavered at times due to unmet desires for a partner. Additionally, early exposure, as young as 7, to pornography, masturbation, and past sexual assault during my adolescence, have made it difficult to resist sexual temptation. When I'm alone at home with nothing to do, it was so easy for the devil to tempt me into porn and masturbation. Likewise, mindlessly scrolling through my phone or watching media with sexual content has also led me down this destructive path on countless occasions.
Guilt and self-loathing followed every single time I succumbed to this sin. It was only recently I felt so consumed by this sexual sin that I sensed myself drifting farther from God and I cried out to Him. The Holy Spirit convicted in my heart that if I continued on this destructive path, it will only be a matter of time that I will be given to it completely.
After confessing and seeking forgiveness of my sins, I deliberately chose to immerse myself in the word of God and maintain constant communion with Him through prayer, both day and night, to fortify and safeguard my heart and mind. This continuous renewal is essential for remaining steadfast on the right path.
As I delved deeper into God's word, I became more mindful of my thoughts and what I allowed into my mind. Moreover, I found that the word of God gradually strengthened my faith in Jesus, helping me trust Him even in the face of temptations like sensual thoughts and negative feelings of loneliness or unfulfillment.
While I strive to deepen my love for Jesus by studying the Bible and obeying His commands, I would pray daily and ask God to renew my love for His word, grant me diligence, provide me with understanding and wisdom to grasp profound scriptures, give me grace and strength to overcome temptations, and guide me to a spouse according to His perfect will and goodness.
Some verses I find solace in:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11: "Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Peter 5:8: "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."
Proverbs 3:5-6: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
Whoever you are, God loves you and He knows the very core of your needs and He wants to bring genuine fulfillment that can only be satisfied by Him.
My hope and prayer for all is to seek God's eyes for every person we see through the eyes and heart of Jesus and not an object for personal gain
@@lilirebeccaskinner6670Amen, renewing of the mind by the Holy Spirit
You can have a better moral compass without the bible, as it allows you to consider another person your property that you can pass on to your children as an inheritance...Do you think that is morally acceptable?
@Elpsychonaut "That here only works with the lens of what is going on today vs the historical accuracy of the Bible."...I realize you are trying to make a point about something today vs the Bible, but this sentence does not make sence to me, nor does it help me understand if you consider purchasing people and considering them property that you can pass on to your children as an inheritance morally acceptable which is what I was asking....
"Do you even know why people were servants it slaves during that time or are you going to ignore that and just use your lens of today"....Can you define chattel slave to see that considering someone property is a bit different from being a "servant"???....I am pointing to the bible allowing foreign chattel slavery as stated in Leviticus in addition to Hebrew debt slavery as stated in Exodus which you might be mistaken about
Are you suggesting that slavery was moral, but became immoral...If so, when did it become immoral?
If I have not come close to understanding what you meant then I apologize, but can not read your mind, so please clarify what you mean as if you needed to explain it in simple terms to a child....That way it might not be so cryptic
@Elpsychonaut "During the time frame of the books of the bible you pointed out. People could pay off they debts with working. They were servants, and yes some being slaves. As the norms of the times were and largely still are in those areas. (cobalt mining, muslim concentration camps China, the state of human trafficking and sex slavery after the fall of Ghedaffi , etc). The slavery in the bible actually had rules for how to treat your servants and slaves until debts could be repaid."...I appreciate that you realize there is more than one form of slavery which is why I asked you to define "chattel slavery", as it is that specific type of slavery that I am asking about.
"( Looking at current times yes slavery is wrong to us now, but not really if we are not demonizing the slave labor largely going on to benefit Americans today for cheap goods.) Slaves were also the spoils of war. As you know the from where you are reading in the bible. Even Gods chosen people were slaves in Egypt at the time. Slavery and human nature go hand in hand because man is wicked. You will always have one person trying to force they influence on another. (including myself and yourself) Your problem seems to be that it happened and was recorded in the Holy Bible as well as had rules on how slaves and servants were to be treated....My problem is NOT that historical facts are "recorded" in the Bible, but that the scripture gave "authorization" of the action without ever condemning the immorality of the action
"If your problem was with slavery back in the day existing, i agree with you it is wrong, but would you rather have rules in regards to how they are treated or not? "....Yes, rules are better than no rules with any action you allow someone else to perform...I am not asking how to improve your ability to remove another human's freedom and personhood....I am asking about what is morally acceptable. Does adding rules increase the morality of slavery enough to make it morally acceptable?
"The Bible is the word of God. God is the only thing that can be considered Good. Everything else is wicked."...Could you define your use of "good" here, as it sounds like you want to click your heels together three times...lol.
"Man left to his own devices does just devolve into an argument of better or worse rather than right and wrong without it."...To be fair, I do not know what argument you are talking about or why those are the only choices...Or what that even means....Are you claiming that an argument can NOT be better and right, or better and wrong...as well as worse and right or worse and wrong?
How do you recognize the morality of action? To clarify....How do you differentiate moral/amoral/immoral actions from each other?
@Elpsychonaut I appreciate the reference points...makes it so much easier, but I realize from experience that it makes composing the message harder,...It does help communication a great deal though, so I wanted to acknowledge it and thank you for the extra effort...
"*How do you recognize the morality of action?
I follow the word of god after praying for understanding, wisdom, and guidance because I cannot know better than God. "...I realize I may not have worded the question well enough, as I am asking for the method you use to differentiate a moral action from an immoral action from an amoral action, or do you have to pray for understanding each time before you can recognize if the action is moral, amoral or immoral?
"*Are you claiming that an argument can NOT be better and right, or better and wrong...as well as worse and right or worse and wrong?
No, I am claiming that without the word of God we are left with just better or worse arguments, or the lesser of two evils over what is right and wrong, or Good and bad. "....Are you aware that there was an earlier time before the word of an Abrahamic God was even mentioned around any campfire? Are you suggesting that the people at this "earlier" time did not have a concept of right/wrong or good/bad, or it did not exist until someone started telling stories of the Abrahamic God?
"*"...Could you define your use of "good" here, as it sounds like you want to click your heels together three times...lol.
God is sovereign. He spoke existence into being. He says that he is Just, and good. Therefore he is good. This was a major hurdle for myself when I was an ashiest so long ago. The problem was indeed that God is good, man is not. In every sense or iteration you can think of. "...I understand and appreciate that you think it would be helpful for me to know all this other information. Please realize that none of this other information helps me understand how you defined "good" in the sentence you used which I was unsure about before, and still am even now, because you did not offer the information I was asking for...
*....Yes, rules are better than no rules with any action you allow someone else to perform...I am not asking how to improve your ability to remove another human's freedom and personhood....I am asking about what is morally acceptable. Does adding rules increase the morality of slavery enough to make it morally acceptable?
**My problem is NOT that historical facts are "recorded" in the Bible, but that the scripture gave "authorization" of the action without ever condemning the immorality of the action
Adding rules does not make things morally acceptable. Since it is defined in the word of God the rules are Good vs the alternative of no rules. Examples being what is happening in this day and age ( cobalt mining, companies using slave labor in America via the prison industrial complex etc. etc.) "...What is the "it" that is defined in the word of God? Does "it" mean "rules" in this statment? Are you saying ....since the rules come from the Bible then they are good vs not having rules...Does that mean if the exact same rules were in another religious text that, the rules would no longer be good?
"Suffering, including slavery, is just a part of human nature. It is why we are a wicked creation. The Bible does end up calling it out with Jesus. The son of God, god in the flesh. Would you like to know more about him? God sent him to die for everyone. To take the sins of everyone in order to take the entirety of gods wrath so that he could save humanity from its depravity and wickedness. He does love you"...Does Jesus tell us that slavery is condemned....or even unwanted? Is slavery even considered a sin by the Bible?
@Elpsychonaut I would love to talk to you about this forever if youd let me. I talk about this with my wife all the time because she is still and athiest. ( i am assuming you are an athiest and will correct me my kid was logged in on that work work reply = ])....Depends on your definition of athiiest, as I welcome the truth of any claim, but have not been convinced in any of the many god claims available in the world today...It is possible one or many are true. I just have not been convinced that any are true yet...As long as you can define my position correctly I do not care about the label used to represent it...
For clarity concerning an earlier term I asked you to define...I realize you may have just missed it as I do tend to ask a few questions...Allow me to help by offering a defintion to see if you have issues with the term I am referencing...I define chattel: an enslaved person held as the legal property of another : BONDMAN
@Elpsychonaut "...I realize I may not have worded the question well enough, as I am asking for the method you use to differentiate a moral action from an immoral action from an amoral action, or do you have to pray for understanding each time before you can recognize if the action is moral, amoral or immoral?
There is no method, the laws are written on believers and unbelievers hearts."...How does someone understand/interpret/read what is written on their own heart or someone else? Ok, so if the laws are written on everyone's hearts must mean that everyone understands morality the same and agrees on what actions are morally acceptable...Right?...Unless what is written is different for each person...
"What is moral is what I am commanded to do as a follower of Christ."...Do you use your own understanding in order to know what you are being commanded to do as a follower of Christ?
"If i lean on my own understanding it will fail"...How do you know you are not currently failing at understanding what is written on your heart without realizing it?
."...Are you aware that there was an earlier time before the word of an Abrahamic God was even mentioned around any campfire? Are you suggesting that the people at this "earlier" time did not have a concept of right/wrong or good/bad, or it did not exist until someone started telling stories of the Abrahamic God?
I used to think that there was a time before the Abrahamic God. I no longer think that. I wholeheartedly believe that god literally spoke existence into being in 6 days and slept on the seventh. You know because I am a follower of Christ."....Sorry, but I may need to rephrase, as I was not talking about God but the "word of God"...If you understand the Torah to be the word of God then there was a time before "the word of God" was anything more than separated stories told around a campfire
" ...What is the "it" that is defined in the word of God? Does "it" mean "rules" in this statment? Are you saying ....since the rules come from the Bible then they are good vs not having rules...Does that mean if the exact same rules were in another religious text that, the rules would no longer be good?
"It" is the laws referring to the Bondservant or slavery in its forms you keep bringing up. "....Does that mean that if the exact same rules were held by another religion that the rules would no longer be....good?
"My problem is NOT that historical facts are "recorded" in the Bible, but that the scripture gave "authorization" of the action without ever condemning the immorality of the action.
I get that. If you think of what you think is right and wrong you will probably always stumble at this block. You sound like me when i was dead in my sin."....I do not know what "of what you think is right and wrong", and "stumble at this block" means. Can you explain the difference between "recording historical fact" to that of "giving permission" to a group of people to PURCHASE other people and consider them property...?
"...Does Jesus tell us that slavery is condemned....or even unwanted? Is slavery even considered a sin by the Bible?
No, but wonderfully enough you are enslaved to him once you learn about the gospel. "...To clarify....Do you believe biblical slavery is morally acceptable because the Bible considered it morally acceptable or all slavery acceptable because the bible never condemns slavery unless the person is Hebrew?
".I understand and appreciate that you think it would be helpful for me to know all this other information. Please realize that none of this other information helps me understand how you defined "good" in the sentence you used which I was unsure about before, and still am even now, because you did not offer the information I was asking for...
You can just think of it like a math equation.
God= good or Good = God. "... Am I Good?
"...I realize I may not have worded the question well enough, as I am asking for the method you use to differentiate a moral action from an immoral action from an amoral action, or do you have to pray for understanding each time before you can recognize if the action is moral, amoral or immoral?
You follow the laws/ commandments written in your heart and in the word of God. If you are not following his commandments its immoral."....If I understand God to be commanding me to kill my son, then is the act of me killing my son morally acceptable?
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