I believe this Gerator needs a bigger Ventilation,..I I stall a fan to get air inside the box...it is a bath fan ,..works pretty good and the generator dosen't overheat.!!!
I have used almost the same set up on my peterbilt for the past four years. I mounted my box directly behind the fuel tank also. I only used the existing holes in the frame that were drilled at the factory. In the winter I use a portable electric heater and in the summer I use a 5000 btu air conditioner. It only takes a very few minutes to set the ac unit into the window opening. I made a template for the ac unit to sit on. I made this out of wood. I also use a small fan to circulate the air into the sleeper area. I didn't modify the generator box. I just open the door to let the exhaust escape and to attach the electric cord. I carry extra fuel in my tool and chain and strap tool box behind the sleeper. This works great The generator has never had any mechanical problems. I change the oil every six to nine months.
@@gcheema24 I haven't had weather that cold, the coldest weather I have started the generator in was around 18 degrees and it started ok in temperature.
Great idea ! Might want to route the cord out the side, less chance of rain or snow laying on the top and leaking in, just a thought : ), looks good too.
I just spent 4 days drilling holes on my trailer putting lights on it. Bro when I started watching the video of you drilling and talking drill bits I got goose bumps. I spent probably 200$ on drill bits I went to Home Depot, harbor freight and the drill bits sucked. So I finally caved and went and bought a 100$ kit of drill bits and drilling oil. It went a lot easier. Needless to say. I’m done drilling anything else for a long while drilling 55 holes was a nightmare lol. Keep the 🔥 videos coming brotha.
If you get a step bit from home depot is about 50 bucks , but that drills like a charm up to 3/4. i drill 8 holes on my rig chassis, just remember to use some oil with the bit. You would be surprised.
I used a step bit and drilled 24 holes on the trailer. Took about 15 mins for all of them. I did start by using drill bits at first and couldn’t even make one hole without breaking a few.
It’s whatever, people that are owner ops especially new owner ops understand it. If I was in industry with cash in bank enough for overhaul etc all major repairs house paid for etc I’d get an apu but rn I can use the extra 10k I save going this route. Apu is better no doubt but not all of us are 10.000 trucks trucking companies lol, most folks hating are dudes being company drivers driving in comfort but making $1000 a week living on road
With the big bits, you have to gradually get to the desired size because it won’t go. But the harbor freight bits are no match for Milwaukee 😂😂 but it feels that way because it’s a WHOLE PROCESS but great vid👍🏾💯
Rasim, you want to always protect your eyes when drilling. Safety Goggles(Cost Is Little)as that metal shrapnel fly's good distance drilling anything. It's in an eye before you can stop it. Safe Travels, always, Tommy :-)
i did this, i put a fitting in the cap then to a low profile outboard tank so i can put lots of gas in it 5 gallons so lasts a week if not the tankbitself off generator running a 8000 btu ac only lasts bout 6 hrs give or take
I'm an ex electrician and I just watch you torture test those bits lol. There is a method to using them so they don't destruct so quickly. #1 heat kills them. #2 Don't use hammer mode on metal with metal bits. That mode is for concrete. #3 don't put the drill in the hole, then press. It will jerk your drill and break the tip off. Start the bit at a fast speed before putting it into the hole lol and lastly use a good drill oil or plenty of water
Great job installing the box for the generator! I bet that you run into alot of scam artists like the one you talked about when you are on the road! It's sad all the crooks and deadbeats that try to take your kindness for weakness! Make sure that you have that box secured so that no one can steel it when you are on the road ! Thanks for another awesome video!
another quick tip is where u mount thebracket to frame put duct tape inbetween, keeps from rusting and corroding, i also used to cut a puece out of a plaque card that works good to
Duct tape holds moisture, rubber holds moisture , everything holds moisture and anything steel will rust. I powder coated my brackets, no paint to chip or rust, then I put half inch rubber isolators on the bolts. Brackets are about a quarter inch off the frame rail, so no metal to metal contact means no buildup of rust or corrosion. Been mounting boxes on my trucks and trailers for 20 years like this. Your idea is no good, sorry bro.
I've never liked those titanium coated bits. I've tried many brands and all of them dull quickly. I've found that regular hss (black oxide) bits work better but cobalt is best for metal. Also, WD-40 isn't a very good lubricant for drilling. It's really intended to help disperse moisture and prevent corrosion. Actual cutting oil, such as Tap Magic is best for drilling/tapping, but it's expensive.
The coating is there to help chips evaluate from the hole, if your machining a piece of steel thats 1in thick it can help. But in a hand drill it wont do shit
I like the whole setup I like the whole idea not a fan of drilling your frame especially for somebody who trucks in cold weather area you are asking for trouble
I occasionally run into those pan handlers begging for money. They ALWAYS have a story. But they sometimes say "this isn't a story its what really happened"
Sa malom burgijom obelezis rupu i onda uzmes tu najvecu burgiju i busis.Tako ti sto radis samo kvaris burgije.Burgija treba da busi svojom celom povrsinom
dont drill holes or weld anything into the truck frame , u should even see that sticker not to do so U should have used J Hooks Crossover Toolbox 4 pieces $11 on amazon
I think it is illegal to make holes in your frame :). About 10 years ago I had a small generator in my truck and every time I used it I took it out and put it behind the cab, securing it with a chain. And this is the advantage of small generators that they are easily portable and you do not have to drill the frame of the truck. But if you like it that way, I can only wish you success. What heater do you use for the winter and what air conditioner for the summer?
It is not a DOT violation, ffs. The dealership drills holes for step box brackets, APUs and tire chain holders. Why knuckleheads still spout this nonsense is beyond me.
If you have not added some large washers between the box and bolts you might want to do so because that aluminum will flex and crack pretty fast and once one hole pulls out the rest of it will break free! Adding a vent as close to the top of the box is a good idea because heat rises. A small fan on the bottom blowing air toward the top would be a good idea in hot weather! The I am out of gas, my battery went dead, my alternator is bad scams have been going on forever, I got took by a women who claimed she was heading up north to get away from an abusive husband and she had a couple kids in the car and a lot of clothes in bags so I believed her. A couple days later a buddy of mine ran into her at another gas station and I heard him talking about her and described her to him and we both knew we were suckers!
Came to the comments for this! 1) It is explicitly against the manufacturer's recommendations. 2) It is illegal and dangerous to modify a truck's frame (i.e.- drill holes or weld). You are changing the metal's structural integrity. You're not modding your Honda civic, dude. I used to think like you until I learned a thing or two about metallurgy, metal fatigue and structural integrity. If this is a company truck and not your own, safety and compliance will be right up your ass about this. It could even be grounds for dismissal. I'm all about diy and smart solutions but do it right by fabricating brackets that will use existing holes and hardware on the frame.
The closest thing that would make it outright illegal is this line: "(e) No holes shall be drilled in the top or bottom rail flanges, except as specified by the manufacturer." OTRookie did not drill or weld there. Individual manufacturers have different limitations on what is allowed, such as the size of the holes, distance between, etc. But DOT has no relevance there.
OMG I HOPE THAT'S NOT A COMPANY TRUCK ,,the legality action you just did to that truck omg ,,,,,if you could see how much that frame flexes when there is 80 thousand pounds on it and you just make a normal right or left hand turn ,,,,that frame flexes at least 1 to2 inches with out breaking because of the tinsel strength in volved in it you really need to talk to someone before you start drilling holes in frame rails dude ,,,,there are usually warning signs actually on the frame saying ,,,,DO NOT DRILL OR WELD TO FRAME,
@@briananderson3801 : no they are actually punched in. They drill, weld, cut, stretch, and shorten truck frames every day. I have a 94 Pete 379 that was 260” wheelbase when new. Now it’s 305” wheelbase, and guess what, the truck frame was cut in half the tears were rolled back 45” and a piece of new frame was welded back in.A liner on the inside of the frame and a bunch of holes were drilled into the new frame pieces. No cracks, no problems. They put those stickers on the frames for liability and insurance reasons.
I wonder if UA-cam trains people to ask silly questions in their titles. Like this one. You are mounting a generator on a truck… could it be the start of an auxiliary power unit??? Well, I certainly hope so, because otherwise you are a master of wasting time. Just sayin’.
Do you know you never ever drill a frame on a car or a truck never ever ever drill into a frame rail it will crack from one of those holes to another CAUSING catastrophic failure CAUSING a wreck that u would not believe that is tinsel strength steel ,the integrity of the frame is compromised do not DO NOT DO IT ,,,,,IT WILL CRACK AT SOME POINT,,,,the only time you can drill is if you are stretching the frame ,,,,and NEVER EVER EVER EVER WELD TO A FRAME,never those rails are heat treated NEVER WELD OR DRILL A FRAME RAIL ON A CAR ,PICK UP TRUCK TRACTOR TRAILER ANY ANY FRAME RAILS
Unfortunately everything you just said is a large misunderstanding. I drill, weld, cut, frame rails almost daily and have for years. I install tag axles, relocate tandems, relocate 5th wheel plate mounting rails, tool boxes, hinges for dump beds, carriages, truck bodies, etc. I have lengthened frames, shortened frames, repaired frames and all of this involves welding and drilling. You are not to drill holes within the radius of the frame rail, Thats the curved edge next to the flange.
@@philphil5066 What Mr. Anderson has said may be true for the "tinsel" strength steel frames to which he refers...:) Tensile steel, well now that is a whole different ballgame...
Can’t believe you have went ALL this time without having an APU in your Truck. I’m Glad for you.👍
I believe this Gerator needs a bigger Ventilation,..I I stall a fan to get air inside the box...it is a bath fan ,..works pretty good and the generator dosen't overheat.!!!
I have used almost the same set up on my peterbilt for the past four years. I mounted my box directly behind the fuel tank also. I only used the existing holes in the frame that were drilled at the factory. In the winter I use a portable electric heater and in the summer I use a 5000 btu air conditioner. It only takes a very few minutes to set the ac unit into the window opening. I made a template for the ac unit to sit on. I made this out of wood. I also use a small fan to circulate the air into the sleeper area. I didn't modify the generator box. I just open the door to let the exhaust escape and to attach the electric cord. I carry extra fuel in my tool and chain and strap tool box behind the sleeper. This works great The generator has never had any mechanical problems. I change the oil every six to nine months.
How's the performance of generator in cold weather and does it start in -15
LoL .... U better than me... I change my generator oil once a year 🤣
@@gcheema24 I haven't had weather that cold, the coldest weather I have started the generator in was around 18 degrees and it started ok in temperature.
I just bought a truck..I think I'm going to do the same thing 👍👍👍
OT, you did great on that thing, it looks great, and bet it works good...so WTG.. take care, be watching..
Looks pretty good.
Great idea ! Might want to route the cord out the side, less chance of rain or snow laying on the top and leaking in, just a thought : ), looks good too.
Good job Sir. I like your idea.
You have put the hing side towards the front of the truck so when you are running down the road it can’t accidentally open up
I just spent 4 days drilling holes on my trailer putting lights on it. Bro when I started watching the video of you drilling and talking drill bits I got goose bumps.
I spent probably 200$ on drill bits I went to Home Depot, harbor freight and the drill bits sucked. So I finally caved and went and bought a 100$ kit of drill bits and drilling oil. It went a lot easier. Needless to say. I’m done drilling anything else for a long while drilling 55 holes was a nightmare lol.
Keep the 🔥 videos coming brotha.
If you get a step bit from home depot is about 50 bucks , but that drills like a charm up to 3/4. i drill 8 holes on my rig chassis, just remember to use some oil with the bit. You would be surprised.
I used a step bit and drilled 24 holes on the trailer. Took about 15 mins for all of them. I did start by using drill bits at first and couldn’t even make one hole without breaking a few.
Very creative. Look great as well. Post an Update to see how everything going.
Look at newer videos you’ll find the full unit complete
I'm planning in doing the same thing, even when many people disagree. The way I see it is my truck is my work tool, not a fancy toy.
It’s whatever, people that are owner ops especially new owner ops understand it. If I was in industry with cash in bank enough for overhaul etc all major repairs house paid for etc I’d get an apu but rn I can use the extra 10k I save going this route. Apu is better no doubt but not all of us are 10.000 trucks trucking companies lol, most folks hating are dudes being company drivers driving in comfort but making $1000 a week living on road
@@otrookie
You’re spot on. I’ve seen an old trucker driving for companies for 34 years.
That box looks smart
You should get a step drill bit. Will save you tons of time
With the big bits, you have to gradually get to the desired size because it won’t go. But the harbor freight bits are no match for Milwaukee 😂😂 but it feels that way because it’s a WHOLE PROCESS but great vid👍🏾💯
Rasim, you want to always protect your eyes when drilling. Safety Goggles(Cost Is Little)as that metal shrapnel fly's good distance drilling anything. It's in an eye before you can stop it. Safe Travels, always, Tommy :-)
i did this, i put a fitting in the cap then to a low profile outboard tank so i can put lots of gas in it 5 gallons so lasts a week if not the tankbitself off generator running a 8000 btu ac only lasts bout 6 hrs give or take
They sale brackets at Iowa go that slips over the frame and you do not drill the rails.
Good thinking
Pretty slick. Next time look for carbide drill bits
cool how much is the box and the bracket where can i find these box
U could've make it quieter by adding a small silencer on the exhaust 👍
I'm an ex electrician and I just watch you torture test those bits lol. There is a method to using them so they don't destruct so quickly. #1 heat kills them. #2 Don't use hammer mode on metal with metal bits. That mode is for concrete. #3 don't put the drill in the hole, then press. It will jerk your drill and break the tip off. Start the bit at a fast speed before putting it into the hole lol and lastly use a good drill oil or plenty of water
Great job installing the box for the generator! I bet that you run into alot of scam artists like the one you talked about when you are on the road! It's sad all the crooks and deadbeats that try to take your kindness for weakness! Make sure that you have that box secured so that no one can steel it when you are on the road ! Thanks for another awesome video!
another quick tip is where u mount thebracket to frame put duct tape inbetween, keeps from rusting and corroding, i also used to cut a puece out of a plaque card that works good to
Duct tape holds moisture, rubber holds moisture , everything holds moisture and anything steel will rust. I powder coated my brackets, no paint to chip or rust, then I put half inch rubber isolators on the bolts. Brackets are about a quarter inch off the frame rail, so no metal to metal contact means no buildup of rust or corrosion. Been mounting boxes on my trucks and trailers for 20 years like this. Your idea is no good, sorry bro.
I've never liked those titanium coated bits. I've tried many brands and all of them dull quickly. I've found that regular hss (black oxide) bits work better but cobalt is best for metal. Also, WD-40 isn't a very good lubricant for drilling. It's really intended to help disperse moisture and prevent corrosion. Actual cutting oil, such as Tap Magic is best for drilling/tapping, but it's expensive.
The coating is there to help chips evaluate from the hole, if your machining a piece of steel thats 1in thick it can help. But in a hand drill it wont do shit
Do you have a part two of your set up
How are you going to keep the fuel tank full?
How did your generator setup work for you?
You have to paint those holes you drilled otherwise you'll get rust
I'm going to do this
Where can i find the box i need one of that size for my generator don't have much space and I have to put it like this like yours
Do have the link for that box and the brackets?
Next time heat the place u want to drill it will help u a lot. And use some oil on the drill it will help it to not be destroyed so quick.
Having hard time finding the right box for that generator. Can you direct me to the source..tx
www.ebay.com/itm/293285486259
does the generator needs ventilation, or it can run in there without overheating?
How do you keep from over heating?
I like the whole setup I like the whole idea not a fan of drilling your frame especially for somebody who trucks in cold weather area you are asking for trouble
I occasionally run into those pan handlers begging for money. They ALWAYS have a story. But they sometimes say "this isn't a story its what really happened"
An apu isn't only for creating power its for heat and ac while your sleeping so you don't have to run your truck
Obavezno dobru ventilaciju za agregat,da ima dobro hladjenje da se ne zapali
Hey what size is the box??
“Fender” (small hole, large diameter) & “Lock” Washers Reqd. to Secure Box from Vibrating Loose.
Agreed. He could also use large flat washers and nylock nuts.
Where you the box? Ebay?? Can you give me the link. I don't find it
Great work done. Pls tell where did you get the box..I am trying to find the same size but its hard to find the right one. Thanks be safe.
www.ebay.com/itm/323944304807?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=IaH4S0iJQQq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=OmeHjjVDRxO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Can you do an update video on this
👍🏻👏🏻
do you have link for the box ? i cant find any in the right dimensions
www.ebay.com/itm/324192415104?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=IaH4S0iJQQq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=OmeHjjVDRxO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Can you send link to where you got the box. I can't find it nowhere online.
www.ebay.com/itm/293285486259
How did the box hold up
Actually surprisingly extremely well,
Aluminum faded off and almost chipped off in some areas but welds held up really good
Are you a owner operator or company driver?
What is your toolbox size? 24x24x24? ? ?
👍😉
SUPER AGREGAT😆 KOLIKO JE W I JEL 110V
where can i buy that box?
No idea I got it long time ago on eBay
I know I've done 100 of them ,,,my own trucking co for 39 YRS
Future reference they have no drill frame mounts about $300 for a pair.
you should rent a mag drill or buy one
You remind me of a young Long Haul Larry
Sa malom burgijom obelezis rupu i onda uzmes tu najvecu burgiju i busis.Tako ti sto radis samo kvaris burgije.Burgija treba da busi svojom celom povrsinom
What are the dimensions of your box? And generator if possible.
Thanks
www.ebay.com/itm/324192415104?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=IaH4S0iJQQq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=OmeHjjVDRxO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
www.ebay.com/itm/202753028480?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QEpvko61RFO&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=OmeHjjVDRxO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Why didn't u just buy a step up bit ? Good job 👍 tho
That's what I did, best tool
What the exact measurements of the box ?
www.ebay.com/itm/324192415104?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=IaH4S0iJQQq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=OmeHjjVDRxO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
If you keep adding the fuel how many hours it can run
10 hours on one tank in generator for AC
How do you keep your fridge running with out your generator running thank you bro
@@abdiqaniadan2349 it’s a 12v fridge on truck batteries
You do realize drilling holes into a chasing is a no no right??
rightty
How’s is working so far?
Great I updated it there’s newer videos
@@otrookie whats the video name?
Where'd you get the aluminum box?
www.ebay.com/itm/284011649880
dont drill holes or weld anything into the truck frame , u should even see that sticker not to do so
U should have used J Hooks Crossover Toolbox 4 pieces $11 on amazon
We're are all your vents
I’ve never been to harbor fright I’ve been to harbor freight tho.
😂
Your not supposed to drill the frame
Good Idea, but It's to my believe that we cannot make illegal holes on the frame, please someone that can help me with the answer
I was thinking the same. This is what I was looking for.
I think it is illegal to make holes in your frame :). About 10 years ago I had a small generator in my truck and every time I used it I took it out and put it behind the cab, securing it with a chain. And this is the advantage of small generators that they are easily portable and you do not have to drill the frame of the truck. But if you like it that way, I can only wish you success. What heater do you use for the winter and what air conditioner for the summer?
Don’t have ac once I get my truck I’ll get a mini split but for heat I got webasto diesel heater
It is not a DOT violation, ffs. The dealership drills holes for step box brackets, APUs and tire chain holders. Why knuckleheads still spout this nonsense is beyond me.
I would never drill into the frame like that
What would you do then?
@@idirisaesse180 they make no drill kits that clasp onto the lips of the frame
@@idirisaesse180 merrittproducts.com/heavy-duty/other-products/no-drill-mounting-kit/
Ill be the first to admit I made a mistake instead of buying frame grabbers. I’m with you
ventilation
Yeah, he gonna have a hard time in the summer. All that heat buildup in the box will trip the generator
If you have not added some large washers between the box and bolts you might want to do so because that aluminum will flex and crack pretty fast and once one hole pulls out the rest of it will break free! Adding a vent as close to the top of the box is a good idea because heat rises. A small fan on the bottom blowing air toward the top would be a good idea in hot weather! The I am out of gas, my battery went dead, my alternator is bad scams have been going on forever, I got took by a women who claimed she was heading up north to get away from an abusive husband and she had a couple kids in the car and a lot of clothes in bags so I believed her. A couple days later a buddy of mine ran into her at another gas station and I heard him talking about her and described her to him and we both knew we were suckers!
It’s so sad how you can’t even help people anymore these days!
@corey Babcock so you’re saying you go around begging?
Get a carbon monoxide detector
learn to use step drill.
I hope you don’t need an MRI anytime soon. Really smart drilling metal without glasses.
Dude I don’t think that’s Legal to drill holes in the frame like that.
Came to the comments for this!
1) It is explicitly against the manufacturer's recommendations.
2) It is illegal and dangerous to modify a truck's frame (i.e.- drill holes or weld). You are changing the metal's structural integrity.
You're not modding your Honda civic, dude. I used to think like you until I learned a thing or two about metallurgy, metal fatigue and structural integrity. If this is a company truck and not your own, safety and compliance will be right up your ass about this. It could even be grounds for dismissal.
I'm all about diy and smart solutions but do it right by fabricating brackets that will use existing holes and hardware on the frame.
The closest thing that would make it outright illegal is this line:
"(e) No holes shall be drilled in the top or bottom rail flanges, except as specified by the manufacturer." OTRookie did not drill or weld there.
Individual manufacturers have different limitations on what is allowed, such as the size of the holes, distance between, etc. But DOT has no relevance there.
Bro i owe you saving me $8000 on apu insteadt of money sucking thermo king or tricrap
DRILLING HOLES IN YOUR TRUCK IS A HUGE DOT VIOLATION
So?
No it is not. The dealer drills holes to mount step box brackets, APUs, tire chain holders. Nice try big hero
OMG I HOPE THAT'S NOT A COMPANY TRUCK ,,the legality action you just did to that truck omg ,,,,,if you could see how much that frame flexes when there is 80 thousand pounds on it and you just make a normal right or left hand turn ,,,,that frame flexes at least 1 to2 inches with out breaking because of the tinsel strength in volved in it you really need to talk to someone before you start drilling holes in frame rails dude ,,,,there are usually warning signs actually on the frame saying ,,,,DO NOT DRILL OR WELD TO FRAME,
I’m sure it will be just fine. Count how many holes are already in the frame.
@@scottberry5266 u know those holes are drilled before the frame rails are heat treated right,,,
@@briananderson3801 : no they are actually punched in. They drill, weld, cut, stretch, and shorten truck frames every day. I have a 94 Pete 379 that was 260” wheelbase when new. Now it’s 305” wheelbase, and guess what, the truck frame was cut in half the tears were rolled back 45” and a piece of new frame was welded back in.A liner on the inside of the frame and a bunch of holes were drilled into the new frame pieces. No cracks, no problems. They put those stickers on the frames for liability and insurance reasons.
I wonder if UA-cam trains people to ask silly questions in their titles. Like this one. You are mounting a generator on a truck… could it be the start of an auxiliary power unit??? Well, I certainly hope so, because otherwise you are a master of wasting time. Just sayin’.
That is so stupid to put a gasoline generator on a semi.
Do you know you never ever drill a frame on a car or a truck never ever ever drill into a frame rail it will crack from one of those holes to another CAUSING catastrophic failure CAUSING a wreck that u would not believe that is tinsel strength steel ,the integrity of the frame is compromised do not DO NOT DO IT ,,,,,IT WILL CRACK AT SOME POINT,,,,the only time you can drill is if you are stretching the frame ,,,,and NEVER EVER EVER EVER WELD TO A FRAME,never those rails are heat treated NEVER WELD OR DRILL A FRAME RAIL ON A CAR ,PICK UP TRUCK TRACTOR TRAILER ANY ANY FRAME RAILS
Unfortunately everything you just said is a large misunderstanding. I drill, weld, cut, frame rails almost daily and have for years. I install tag axles, relocate tandems, relocate 5th wheel plate mounting rails, tool boxes, hinges for dump beds, carriages, truck bodies, etc. I have lengthened frames, shortened frames, repaired frames and all of this involves welding and drilling. You are not to drill holes within the radius of the frame rail, Thats the curved edge next to the flange.
@@philphil5066 What Mr. Anderson has said may be true for the "tinsel" strength steel frames to which he refers...:) Tensile steel, well now that is a whole different ballgame...