What Happens to FLDS Polygamist Children?
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- Led by the currently incarcerated prophet Warren Jeffs, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have strict rules and one major part of their doctrine is the practice of polygamy. The women who are often assigned and married off at a young age, are forced to bear as many children as possible. Warren took it upon himself to separate mothers and fathers from their children at astonishing rates. We will discuss with Ceci Hendrickson (a former polygamist wife and mother) all of the ways they suffered in the FLDS.
Watch her full episode here:
• Abandoned with 20+ Kid...
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OMG, The abandonment that the children must felt being moved around and taken away from their parents. What a horror!
It’m so glad to hear about every single mother who has been able to leave with their children… best wishes to all of the brave women who are able to do so!!!
If we wanted to help, what can we do?
Thank God!
The leaders were trying to build an army of perfectly loyal to the cult yet and emotionally detached children. First disrupting the family unit, then preventing people from developing strong individual bonds with people, then preventing any opportunities for joy or emotional stimulation, you break a person down. Then, you create intense bonding rituals that make you feel incredibly special within the group of rituals. Boom. "The only consistent and mentally stimulating thing in my life is The Group."
Recipe for any high demand group or cult. Also the Narssist Playbook.
Yeah, after leaving the flds, I can say for sure, It seems to be the case that the leaders were just making it so confusing that nobody knew the real intentions.
I grew up in basically the same circumstances as a J.W kid with over 30 members of my fam. My dad was gawd in the house and a narcissistic sadist who did nothing but whip me throughout my childhood. And one "fine" day when i was 7 when he was extra furious he killed my pet bird in front of my eyes. I can still hear Bobbi (my bird) screaming in fear when he grabbed her out of the cage and broke her neck. This was 52 yrs ago and it never goes away.
i have been to quite a few meetings with the JW's in my early years... some larger gatherings as well.... i always thought the people that ran the show were 'demons'... i remember this girl that got pregnant at like 21 out of wedlock... i forget what they called it but she could not speak or be spoken to by anyone in the congregation... i remember how sad she looked.... she was such a nice person too... which made things even worse.... so i would just look at her and smile... hoping maybe that helped some.
they were incredibly demanding... and if you didnt do Door-to-Door Service you would be looked down upon and shunned... i soon got out of that Cult... because in my eyes thats what it was... a Cult.
I am sorry for having your father abuse you and your bird.
Awful
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I hate your dad, straight up, for you, your family, and poor little Bobbi. I hope you are doing well.
@@justkiddin84 💪🙌
Growing up in polygamy did an interview with a family where the parents were sent away and they had no idea where they were until one of the girls contacted them asking for help. The Black family, the interviews are heartbreaking
Harrowing interviews they were indeed!
@@HannahMitchell-ArtEspecially watching the interview with the son, the mom's face was so sad
@@nickywal gosh yes, hearing from the son’s perspective was one of the worst things I’ve ever heard
I was a part of this as a kid, and my dad was kicked out, and I can confirm. By the time I left, I had gone through 12 caretakers, and my brother had 14 or 15.
😞
Surname checks out. Whenever I see someone with the surname Jessop now, I’m like 👀 cause names like Jeffs are fairly common, but Jessop and Kingston are quite distinctive.
Hope you’re doing better now!
Hi William! I’m so sorry to hear that. If you’re interested in sharing more, you can email me cultstoconsciousness@gmail.com ❤️
😢 so very tragic. Glad you are out and safe.
I'm so sorry you had to grow up like that. 💚🩵💙
How incredibly sad & toxic for the children, especially. The abandonment issues these kids have are going to cause significant mental health struggles as they get older. It’s so sad but also infuriating as it’s deeply abusive to do this to kids.
Right, healthy attachment is really important for us to be stable and happy.
@@justkiddin84 - Yep, & the attachments we form in childhood with our caregivers set the stage for our ability to form healthy attachments with others going forward. Attachment couldn’t be more critical.
The mothers are trapped in an abusive situation that they don’t even know they can question.
Pets were executed?? Okay, that's horrifying, but also that's very definitely illegal, isn't it? Owning an animal doesn't give you the right to kill it for an arbitrary reason.
Actually in a lot of states it does. Animal cruelty is against the law, as in dog fighting, neglect, beating them, whatever, but you can take your healthy pet to the vet and ask for it to be euthanized for no reason (or for a dumb reason like you’re moving to an apartment that doesn’t allow pets). Most vets will refuse, but it’s not illegal.
@@lkayh im sure they had a much harsher method tho which is a different story than euthanized via vet
The big issue is they have their own police and set up that they could claim anything and get away with it.
Don’t come out to the rural parts of west Texas..I was horrified ppl pew their dogs & dump them (young healthy looking pets) .. I was very glad to move from there!
I dont think the flds were concerned with legality. Marrying under age is also illegal as is child abuse
Glad Warren is in prison but there are many others associated that need to go as well. I don't think Warren should be allowed to have any outside contact with anyone from the community. No phone calls, letters or visits since he is still trying to run things.
I just can't imagine what some of these families had to go through. 😢
I agree!! We are about to do an update video with Growing Up in Polygamy. They have insider news about current “revelations” from Warren that are extremely concerning
As he created isolationism to his community of believers, The same isolationism can come back to him. You reap what you sow.
I came out of a cult and being isolated from the rest of the outside world. You don't realize that this is happening till you get to the other side and look back. You get a greater insight of what really is not what you think it is.
Deceit is a severe form of manipulation. Taking a piece of truth and turning it into a lie for their own selfish purposes. Narcissism at its finest.
Yuuuk! What grandiose ideas they have (the leaders) to obtain their own glory
Why can Warren still have contact w/ the members of the FLDS, past & current? You would think that part of his conviction & sentence would be no contact w/ anyone from the FLDS because Jeff’s being able to do so is allowing him to continue abusive practices. I’m just so shocked the judge & prosecutor did not include something like that.
@@liseklerekoper2441 yes i agree its so upsetting!
Judge and prosecutor might have some special "thoughts" on these particular matters 😮
As a Montessori teacher it was interesting to hear the discussion on the difference between Montessori and the FLDS use of child labor. A point I would like to add is a big part of Montessori is not making the kids do the tasks but simply providing the right materials for if they want to. Kids naturally want to be apart of what they see others doing, especially their caretakers and older children. They want to be involved in meaningful tasks and to be independent, hence the “no, me do it” phase around 18 - 36 months. Montessori provides the opportunities but the key is to listen and respect what the child wants. I like the guest’s statement about how important it is for children to have independent play time and time for imagination and freedom too. Maria Montessori would agree as she said, “Play is the work of the child.” Because to play as a child is to learn and develop and grow.
Sorry can’t miss an opportunity to talk about my favorite thing and I love this channel and the work it does so much ! I hope those kids can heal and find peace and safety they lost because of that selfish man. Children are resilient but they remember more than they are given credit for and are impacted by changes in caretakers, environment, and routine immensely. It breaks my heart how these kids and their needs weren’t even considered by FLDS.
Hi Anna! Great comment! I love hearing your perspective and completely agree. Thanks for sharing 😁❤️
I liked the Interview but I reaaally have to say: children are not naturally drawn to certain toys (girls to dolls and boys to tools). They are raised to do so probably in that case to prepare them for their future roles.
Exactly!
And especially if you are constantly comparing the girls to their mothers and the boys to their fathers, well then the kids look at what the fathers and mothers are doing! And of course the only thing mom does is raise babies and cook whereas dad does manual labor!
Right! If a kid likes a particular color, or a toy, then that is what they should have-not to the point of spoiling (tho a little bit is ok), but to tell a kid they are wrong to like a truck or a stuffed animal because it isn’t feminine or macho enough is damaging.
I agree in the larger society, but it seems like gender roles are so strictly defined in these communities, it seems like children might be more inclined to be drawn to certain toys based on gender roles.
This is exactly what I wanted to say, girls in those communities are drawn to baby dolls because marriage and motherhood is the only perspective women are allowed to look forward to, and all the women they see around them are caring for babies. They are imitating the only thing they see.
The community you’ve built is amazing.
Him having all that money and denying children protein is demonic. He’s over in Vegas sinning every way he could and they ate potatoes and bread. It’s not the worst of his sins, but it’s bad. I feel so bad for anyone still trapped under his thumb.
I wonder if folks there could raise enough heck to get him cut off from sending his ‘decrees’ out? It’s puzzling that it’s still going on.
I've learned so much from your channel.
Glad to hear it!
Warren Jeffs looked like my old supervisor at UPS. 😂
I love to see people who get out like Ceci. 🥰Your head is on straight, you don't look back and mourn your past life. You simply see the problem and move on without trying to excuse those in the past. Very healthy outlook. Good luck to you!
I'm a Canadian and while on a trip across Canada I encountered some of Winston Blackmores' group in Creston B.C. My main reaction was pity. He's another Warren Jeff type of leader from what we hear. Sad!!
He was the other choice to take over the FLDS before Warren officially took over!
Yikes. He is a former LDS bishop.
Snd it’s apocalyptic-always scary.
When your guests said that she had to make toys that triggered a memory of my childhood we were not Mormon but we had lots of Mormon friends and I remember being a kid out in the middle of nowhere doing and making our own toys my dad was very strict my mom was so Meek and Mild. I had to work out some things when I called my dad and I became the scapegoat for the entire family
Children helping in the daily task is done by non cult family's by the childrens choice & wanting to help, but Cult children are forced (not given the choice) to do these things.
Thank you for speaking up for the love and humanity of these women who are, mostly, through no fault of their own, part of this cult. Thank you for sharing the deep love many of these women have for their children. There is no easy answer to this issue. I love hearing your perspective.
?
m
Thank you. I know that we all want to just move on, but for those still living in the fog of cult life, these story’s bring hope.
The trauma these kids experienced is unthinkable. Being ripped away from their parents, pets, and then even their other relatives? How could they ever possibly have healthy attachments in their adult relationships unless they get some serious help with healing? Are there resources for these kids to get any trauma-informed mental health support?
Which was the whole idea. Daddy Warren is the only attachment they are allowed to have. Horrifying.
One year old unloading a dishwasher? 🙈 I have one year old now and he just learnt to walk, so I can't imagine doing that. 😅 Sure it's good to include children to house work (NOT just girls!!) but they also need their independent play and some kind of toys.
Concerning the Texas raid, Growing up in Polygamy did an interview with one of the child protection officers involved in sorting out which mothers had which biological children. August 2022. It is very eye-opening, heartbreaking to hear her story of how messed up the whole situation was.
The thing that doesn't sink in with me.
These women (including Ceci) are POWER HOUSES. They are absolutely the toughest women I've had the privilege of listening to. Yet, they are treated like.... Cattle? A broodmare? Child birth in its self is an amazing show of strength and willpower. But the women are NEVER the priority.
If a woman is carrying your child, you should bow and scrape to that woman because it's one of the biggest sacrifices she'll make.
Ontop of the broodmare. They have to manage the home. Keep it clean. Feed multiple mouths.
And the woman and girls are just.... Workers. And never know anything but motherly love which is spread super thin in most cases.
Y'all are amazing women. 💛So much love to every single lady on this podcast.
Workers and sexual objects.
Thanks for coming back *Ceci!*
Your emotional intelligence is something I am sure you've been commended for maaany times. Your babies are so lucky to have someone like you to help them transition through this, keep rockin' girlie 🥺🤙
So sad I couldn't make the live!
Just here to boost & remind everyone reading that they are amazing!
~Much love and support as always~
Children should not be collateral damage...a mothers love is not enough...the children have to be safe.. protected...educated so they have the chance to make an informed decision for themselves...love is not enough...plenty of people who do not have the capability to provide for their kids love them...
Great interview! Wow the food control was even more strict than I had known previously. I don't have kids, but I have the same questions when I see Montessori parents so it's nice to know it's not just me.
I think the key is that the kids ALSO have toys, books, pets, etc. Teaching kids how to live and take care of themselves and a home is part of a parent’s job, as well. So many people are thrown out into the world with no idea how to cook, clean, pay bills, etc. and it’s steals years from their lives as they try to learn on their own-or they live in filth and end up bankrupt. Or overly dependent on another person to survive.
You are so right! My girls have dolls, but their motherly play makes anything a baby. Bags of beans and potatoes in the grocery store always end up being their babies until we get to the check out.
My fav interviewer and my fav former FLDS lady!! Yay! This is so special.❤
Aww 🥰❤️
The bit about the children making dolls out of rags made me both smile and sad. I love the creativity of children, but it’s sad that they had to do that in the first place.
Shelise, you have created an amazing platform for those that need to tell their story without fear of prosecution. Awesome job!
Thank you so much!
Great work, Ceci! You are a strong and remarkable woman! Glad your children are doing well! Thank you for sharing! ❤
Thanks for sharing! I am learning a ton from ya'll!
Thanks for watching!
Cici, your resiliency and ability to persevere through the challenges you’ve faced is amazing. Your loving and supportive attitude towards your children and willingness to guide them and not dictate to them shows insight far beyond what you, yourself, were taught. Thank you for your insights into your former world. You are a rock star! And Shelise, thank you for another wonderful interview!
❤️
Thank you for your kind words!❤️
I have learned so much watching this channel. The guests you have are so brave and inspirational. I also enjoy your collaborations with other creators. Keep it up.
Whaa I was ready for a good long listen. I know it's hard to please everyone❤
I could sit and listen to Cesi all day, she’s so inspirational and so balanced 💓
Thank you so much for the follow up.
❤
Watching the replay. Girl you look amazing. CC is very brave!
Thank you so much 🤗
Cici you have shown such strength, I’m so happy you are living the life you worked so hard for
All these women are so brave for leaving and doing all they can to protect their children. Working slowly into the "other world" would be incredibly confusing for a child and Ceci has done it the right way - let them decide when and where they want to integrate and what they choose to believe or not believe. Great interview! Thanks Ceci and Shelise.
It was so interesting to hear more of her story.
Hello from New Zealand, love your channel…..thank you for what you do
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for sharing your stories we really are all so interested in this. Very heartbreaking but some people say these things don’t happen in these days and reality is they do and the only way to expose the truth is sharing ❤
Great job Ladies!! So very PROUD OF YOUR LIFE AND WISH YOU AND YOUR KIDS ALL THE BEST!!!
Good interview, as always.
Thank you both!
Wow, Mandy! Great choice. I imagine that will be a huge chunk of humanity. Impressed 😊
Great Interview!
Do all Mormons practice the same style of parenting that Ruby and Kevin Franke did with their kids? I ask because Ruby's sister Bonnie practices "Blanket Training" along with other abusive parenting techniques. We know that generational trauma is passed down without Mormons questioning the abuse they are inflicting to their kids and normalize it so does that still occur as part of the religion whether they are with Fundamentalist or not? Is it written in the material as to how children are to be treated? I know that Jodi Hidebrandt was LDS' appointed therapist for the organization and had influence over Ruby BUT, she and Kevin were already abusing and exploiting their kids for profit on their UA-cam Channel for all to see. So my question remains, do all Mormons practice this extreme parenting style (ABUSE) regardless if they are fundamentalist or not? Thanks for being brave in sharing your story, keep getting the support you need as it has taken me many years to move through child SA.
I was raised flds, but I know a lot of Mormons, and I can say without being in a Mormon family, I can't say for sure, but Jody's family seems to be an exception.
I agree with William that generally speaking, LDS parents are taught to love and care for their children, not whip them into submission. Kids are certainly taught to be meek and obedient, but I’ve never heard them being ok with any sort of physical abuse to make that happen. Also, the blanket training is a very conservative fundamentalist Christian thing that came from the Pearls’ “How to Train Up a Child”. It seems extremely likely that she got a hold of that book.
Yes I understand what you are both saying however, I'm also talking about the emotional abuse which actually for me has been the hardest to move through. Being raised in a cult such as Mormon churches (don't mean to offend, it takes many years for the unraveling and breaking away from group think and becoming an independent critical thinker. What I knew at 24 and what I know now at 56 is completely different. Like peeling away the layers of an onion.. The only way I did it was to completely stop practicing religion with organizations and to go no contact with my family and of course therapy who dealt with the effects of cults. It was scary to step away from everything I knew but it was completely necessary to heal. I find these types of organizations and not just Mormon structures (there's a whole list of them), which can actually raise children into submissive adults with unhealthy boundaries and keep them in dangerous relationships by reinforcing it with religious doctrine causing them to be more vulnerable, obedient, and submissive in the future especially as a female. I already knew the history of the "blanket training"and where it stems from as for the Franke Family and Ruby's siblings seems they were all trained the same way (I took a deep dive into their history). BUT, even on your channel here you have guests who have had A LOT of similar experiences within Mormon structures like the Franke's hence the question about the dangers of perpetuating the emotional neglect/ abuse unintentionally especially when someone has stepped away. My understanding became deeper over time as each decade passed. Also with respect to your guests.I have no doubt that they love their children and the fight to get them back however, , these girls who were abused, were just little girls having babies themselves as their emotional growth was stunted. I found Rick Alan Ross, to the best author and expert in the field of deprogramming victims of cults and has rescued many people out of them. Keep up the channel for the victims. Good work indeed.
@@chime-girlExcellent comment, thank you for sharing your thoughts. ❤
I’m late watching this one but it was an awesome one. Such a strong mama who wants the best for her kids
As a mom ive looked into so many development teachings and my favorite is reggio emilia for a community inclusion aspect with the standard Montessori activities
Thank you for a very informative video
I love seeing how much these women have overcome!
Liked, shared and commented. Up the algorithm!!
Excellent discussion around the issue with removing children from loving parents, and how that can not be the answer. Especially considering the many flaws and dangers in the public childcare system. It also is likely to cement their distrust of the outside world even more.
The guest suggesting reaching out to the mothers themselves and planting a seed would probably be a better approach. would
Would love to hear more of the children’s changing out of FLDS. How do they do visiting with their dad? Do they have to wear FLDS clothing when they are with him or is he accepting of what they decided to wear now?
Replay crew here😊
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
When my 2 boys were very small, they helped with housework, cooking, ironing, budgeting, etc. My oldest is now married and is an awesome husband and my youngest lives alone. They are both very capable of taking care of everything in the home!!
The girls are affected by the culture of course since they always see mothers and large families and women in mothering roles. Not coming from that I really wasn’t into dolls. I was competitive with the boys.
These stories are horrifying. So many nice people betrayed and worse.
She is SO brave and should be proud of herself!
At 16yrs old, a second wife, and having kids. I cant imagine.
Hi from Sydney, Australia.
12:20 this is a great point! misogyny and patriarchal structures negatively affect women, but they also negatively affect men. it affects them differently. it is about living up to that masculine standard, being the perfect man, finding shame and weakness in feeling vulnerable. there's so much more, but these structures and ways of thinking negatively effect everyone.
Ceci rocks 🎉🎉🎉
One of the things that strikes me as not appropriate is the expectation of young children having tasks that are not developmentally appropriate. There is a difference between children who are being given developmentally appropriate learning opportunities. By the way I adore the Montessori Method. It is wonderful for children.
Thank you❤
Thank you.
There was a ban on having sex or children, until Jeffs was released, and that was apparently only eased, many years later, by some of his relatives being allowed to marry. This is seen in no small children and women reaching marriage age and having to go without having a marriage and children.
Shelise, PLEASE listen to the Sarah Edmondson and 'Nippy' Ames' podcast, "A Little Bit Culty" episode on the Montessori method! For someone with a high control/cult past, I think there are things you might find concerning.
Personally, I spent exactly one day in a Montessori program as a young child. It ended with them calling my Mom and asking if they could tie me to a chair. 😳
Really? Yikes! I’ll check it out. Tie you to a chair? As far as I’ve researched, we just like the idea of simple play at home with small tables and chairs and things in arms reach for them to explore in a baby proof environment. I don’t think we plan to send her to a Montessori preschool.
@@GenuineLeighOof.. my son went to a Montessori daycare/preschool class, and it was lovely, no weird or concerning practices
These profits and there "revelations" are absolutely sick! These poor family's! What a horrible way to live!
Look into the Waldorf school - they have a good reputation.
Have you looked in to interviewing some older past members? Growing up in southern Utah we knew all about polygamists and working at Walmart you'd see them come through with dozens of shopping carts using food stamps and after spending thousands they'd still have thousands more on their card (back in the early 2000's Walmart's receipts used to show the food stamp balance and cash balance at the bottom of the receipts) I don't know if they do that anymore. Anyway, they called it "Bleeding the Beast" because so many weren't technically married but still had so many children. Did Warren stop that practice? Also you asked about why they don't go get the kids, has anyone talked to you about the raid in the 50's that ended up being covered by I think it was Time magazine? It was basically the same thing as Texas and it was horrible press and that's why Utah and Arizona didn't do anything for so long. Sam Brower talked about this and I believe Carolyn Jessop did as well in her book.
This sounds like the Kingston group, more than the FLDS
@@tiffanygibson8111the interview states in the comments that it was Warren Jeff's sect and the Kingston group is in northern Utah, I'm talking about southern Utah, we're not far from Colorado City so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Strict communism is basic Christian teaching. Just read Acts of the Apostles. Everything was owned communally. Everyone had to turn over all their money to the leaders, who then distributed among the group.
Mandatory communism is another example of something that's in the New Testament, and that a lot of Christians would probably be shocked by if they actually bothered to read the book they say they follow.
Yes! So funny this rise of love for capitalism among the ultra religious Christians, especially in America
@@sianmilne4879 Christianity started as an End Times cult of ascetic Judaism where you abandoned all personal wealth and ties to this world. That proved to be not very popular, though, so it morphed into "believe in Jesus and make up your own rules".
@@sianmilne4879 The whole ‘prosperity gospel’ crap is completely opposite of everything Jesus taught.😡
This depends on your definition of communism.
@@justkiddin84 I define it the way Acts of the Apostles chapter 4 does, which is also the same way Marx defined it. And Marx never excoriated capitalists as brutally as James chapter 5.
Shelise you are a treasure
🥰🥹
Montessori is awesome !!!🎉
I wish I had my kid do the self help stuff. Lol making Mac n cheese w my 10 y.o boy was interesting when he put the butter in the boiling water lol
😂
Hi from Seattle ⛵
Seattle be safe
As Mama Doctor Jones says, "you do the best you can with the information that you have"
It seems like it would really stifle your creativity
Commenting for the algorithm ❤️
Uprooting the kids from their mothers does a lot of emotional damage to said children, and also their mothers too.
😳 WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE MALES ???
They don’t care. Just want a new young wife
What are things like now for the members of the FLDS since Jeffs is in prison? The same?
We are filming an update on this tomorrow actually! Planning to release next week
Whatever the context, play is not play when there is constant scrutiny accompanied by an over riding fear of condemnation. In the turning of the screw, the man gained control of the woman with cruelty and by ultimately killing an animal. She lost all of her own determination to become compliant and docile. There's an ancient Spanish folktale more cruel with the same moral.
From the pictures I've seen, it appears that most of that population is on the slender side. I know the variety of food was pretty basic. Was there enough food? I hope you all didn't have constant hunger
I feel if the community can practice their beliefs let them! The problem is abuse of children and families. But the religious belief is practicing FLDS THEN that’s great. But those who practice should not abuse anyone. Let them practice their religious practices. As long as it’s safe and agreed upon
In this case, abuse and beliefs are one in the same. The beliefs are inherently abusive
While watching this video, I got an ad for the Shen Yuen cult 😳
It's so sad that these kids had to get rid of all their toys and pets. Talk about control!
If you could find someone to speak from the Modern Mystery School, that group covers every level of extreme.
Oh my 😢
Sad they have to be taken away from their parents.
I'd like to know how things are going for the tall guy with 6 trucks that was on the escaping polygamy show. He was flds from the crick.
I remember that guy too!!! Wasn’t he the one who had a girlfriend who left after him, but eventually they broke up. I could be wrong, but this is what I’m remembering.
@@liseklerekoper2441 I just remember him being left at an apartment , might have been in St. George and he said he already had a job lined up. Was a mechanic.
His name was Loren. They expected a woman he drove up in a big dbl cab fwd with a flag flying on the back.
@@bitteroldman2714 - Yes, it was Loren. Thank you!!! Such a nice guy, and all of those young men from the FLDS who escaped are such hard workers.
Ooh ooh ohhh with hand raised while dancing in my seat- awareness(? Idk topic but this stuff is headlines, morally speaking) anywho an open dialogue with @candaceowens w/ @thedailywire ?
Oh my goodness, did you ever find out why your first husband and the other wives were sent away, but you weren’t? And why they were then allowed to return??
Also, thank you so much for sharing your story! I’m so glad you’re now living your best life 🤗🤗
When the kids go to see there father do they have to wear the FLDS clothing?
Great question!
Were her kids young enough that they didn't think she was an evil being bc she left or was made to leave the cult?