Just want to note that @generationtpaul made a good point. By definition this is gatekeeping. What I was trying to get across is that people not getting into heroics due to their low gear level isn’t the “WoW gatekeeping” which is defined as “You’re a horrible person for not including everyone”. High level people want to blast through raids fast. A few carries are fun, but too many does have a negative effect.
It´s the same as all the other wow gatekeeping, youre making up an arbitrary number which is required to do the content, be it ilvl or M+ score. High ilvl ppl also want to blast through their key. The same principle you stated for Remix can be carried over to retail. Play since the beginning of the season and there are less ppl with higher score and ilvl and you get invited. You didnt do that? ok now you have to grind your way through lower keys to slowly build up score and ilvl. Its the same thing lol. With the only difference that i notice if theres a guy with 30 ilvl less in my M+ run compared to a boss taking maybe 30 seconds instead of 10 when there are some low ilvl ppl in my Remix HC raid ;)
you are 100% correct. All I did was do my daily every single day until I was maxed out once I maxed all my gear out. I had no problem getting into anything ever. Don't worry about the cosmetics until your gear is maxed out. Once your gear is maxed out you will be flooded with bronze and get every cosmetic extremely fast.
Having my one remix "main" at max gear, I'm able to do just the simple dailies (normal/heroic scenario + normal/heroic dungeon + heroic ToES raid) and that nets me 35,000 bronze. That's enough for any one mount per day or 7 different ensembles from the vendors. for each additional alt, if I feel like logging in), I can do the exact same thing (but just a normal ToES) and get about 20-25,000 bronze to get 5 ensembles or some toys. It is NOT too late to get a main to 476 and start farming out the cosmetics. At this point, I have all the ensembles and heirlooms and I'm just doing the 1 mount/toy per day until I finish. Any extra bronze I get on alts will speed up that process. And I still have more alts/classes I need to make, which turns out to be ~70,000 bronze by the time they get to level 70. Again, I already have all the ensembles bought, so the rest is just mounts/toys and running LFR for the weapon drops.
100% agree. It's not too late and if people wanna get in on it now, now is the time to do it. Being OP is fun too. Not sure when we're gonna get another chance at feeling like this. Maybe the next remix if they do one.
I don't understand why those that "can't get into a group" don't just make their own group. It feels like they are trying to pass the buck off to everyone else. This goes for both mop remix and m+.
Very true. You may pick up some high ilvl people who didn't feel like making a listing, or who want to help. At 476 ilvl I've intentionally joined a group with one boss down in H ToT, and they were grateful for the "pity".
@erinjones5382 Right? I mean, I make my own raid groups in MoP Remix now and it's easy and fast. Doesn't take much effort. Just waiting a little bit for the people to show up.
By definition it is gatekeeping. You're making a choice to include some people, and exclude others. Whatever the choice is based on. It's not an inherently good or bad thing. It all depends on how it's done, and for what reason it's done. No one in their right mind should fault you for respecting your own time enough to not want to wipe repeatedly on something that's otherwise a cakewalk. In fact, no one should feel entitled to your time or effort at all. Regardless of how easy it is for you to do something. That being said, what's really the point of getting to 476, and continuing to up your thread count, if not to overpower content? And if you're over-powering it anyway, what's the harm in bringing some people along, and making the process of bronze gathering easier for them? So they can also reach 476, and carry people? The real reason I think this video was even made is trying to differentiate between people's current conception and definition of gatekeeping (All bad, no exceptions. you should never exclude anyone, and you're a meanie for excluding people), a toxic, fun killing practice. And some other concept that should just be called gatekeeping, but we have to call something else to differentiate it from the currently decided definition of gatekeeping. Which would just be called "elitism" if we were back in 2009/2010. When gearscore was still an addon, not baked into the game.
Honestly couldn't have said it better myself. Your correct. It is (by definition) gatekeeping but if in the WoW community it's EXACTLY what you said. All bad, no exceptions, you should never exclude anyone, and you're a meanie for excluding people. That right there was the point I was trying to get across and you nailed it on the head. If 476 people wanna go fast, they they should go fast with other 476 people (and sure, have a few carry slots) but we don't have to jump into a raid with just one person that's 476 and the rest are 300. That's not respecting people's time when they wanna blaze through the raid. Thank you for clearing things up. I appreciate you.
Mythic + is not that hard to get into. There are 8 dungeons and the "goal" is to get a +10 on each dungeon for a total of ~2000~2500 points. Clearing a +2 (the entry level mythic+) is going to net you 150 points. If you do that for all 8 dungeons, suddenly you have a 1200 score and can start pushing that higher little by little. It's very easy to get into a +2.
That's good to hear. I guess when I was trying to do M+ runs back in the day it was difficult and people were complaining about it. I guess things have changed then?
I was always worried my main wouldn’t be able to perform enough to even be invited to heroics. I was also lacking the necklace at the time. My gear was already past 400 ilvl easily by doing lfr/dungeon/scenerios on a daily basis. Once I got my necklace I had a major jump in ilvl and had about three levels left on each piece of gear. I must say, doing the daily stuff cranked up my threads past 200k and I’m sure if I wasn’t working on my alt(second hunter lol) I’d prolly be close to breaking 300k now
That’s a lot of threads! Yea anything past 200k and you’re doing some MEGA dps for sure. Glad you were able to push through that whole thing and get to where things felt right.
Yes, use your main to gear up and then you can just play to get bronze and on your alts you only have to play for getting the bronze needed for the mog/mount etc. you want.
Regarding remix people need to upgrade their gear. Even getting to 400 ilvl with buffed bronze from the crates is handy now. As someone whose ilvl is now 464, just upgrade your gear and then go smash heroics. Don’t expect others are obliged to take your fresh 70 with 300k hp into heroic raids, especially since heroic raids do fill quickly with near max ilvl people.
I agree. I've been trying to tell people since the beginning to upgrade their gear. Now we have a lot of QQing going on. I thought by now we would see a LOT more 476 people in the game.
Having played remix in the early days i rerolled 3 days in and was behind the curve on gear and everyday the ilvl reqs kept increasing just out of my reach (if I had neck id have the req ilvl) for the exact same raids so I said fuck it and farmed lfr and heroic dungs until I was max geared and I finally got my neck and reached 476 ilvl
If we are just talking about MoP remix, it absolutely is gatekeeping. My druid is 476 and can almost delete a heroic raid alone. Even with one other person that's a pumper heroic raids are a joke. This isn't end game competitive content... it's smash your face and win mode. Not everyone has time to farm tons of bronze and they still should be able to enjoy a temporary game mode to it's fullest.
I disagree 100%. The reason for running heroics is to get bronze, and if that's the reason, then people who aren't accepted into a raid group can go do other things in order to get the bronze. Raid leads aren't holding them back from getting what they are already going to get in the raid, which is bronze. Mythic + however is different. You can't increase your M+ score unless you run M+ content. And if they don't let you in, then that's it. Game over. But in remix, you have so many other options in order to get bronze. And when you get enough bronze to upgrade your gear, then you can run heroics to get even more bronze.
@@Quaylin it doesn't matter though in remix. In M+ in retail those are timed and have potential for actual loss in keys. Remix is just a delete the mob mentality. Just because you chose to grind it out the long way doesn't mean that is the way it has to be, because it quite literally doesn't have to be. I've successfully run heroic raids with the crappiest geared 70's and we never once wiped nor were affected by their lower level gear as 476's. If that is an actuality then reality is that gear doesn't matter at this point in the remix mode.
Also think they should get rid of key loss as well and I never run keys why put things in the game that serve a single purpose to make something worse. I can tell you I'm new to Quaylins videos but I enjoy them because I've never been so happy to be so casual its like blizzard is trying to get rid of players LOL
@etta1024 Hold up. Are we talking about the same thing? Just wanna make sure. Really good points you putting down. Love it. So there's another comment here that broke down what I was trying to get through with the term "gatekeeping". Per definition, it is gatekeeping with what people are doing, but what I was trying to say is that the process of not letting people into heroics because their gear level is too low, is that it's saying that all of the 476 players are "All bad, no exceptions, you should never exclude anyone, and you're a meanie for excluding people." When I have actually been in a raid with only two 476 players, and the rest were mid 300 and below. It was so painfully slow that I left half way. It wasn't respecting the time for people who want to blast through the content for bronze. So what I was saying is that when people say "no" to others for trying to join a heroic at a lower ilvl, it's not the "WoW Gatekeeping" as in "you're a horrible person for excluding people". A few carry slots it fine. But a full carry of 8-9 people that most likely will die in many of the encounters...unless I'm offering to go slow and help out. I'm not looking for that. Does that make me a horrible person? Because I don't want to just carry people all day by maybe have a few carry slots in my raid group?
@GLeonard I appreciate that, brother. Yea I'm down to discuss things with everyone as long as it's all respectful. My mind is TOTALLY OPEN to change if you have really good points and you don't attack me as a person or content creator. But I've actually had people help me see things in a new light because of what they said.
Its flex and taking ppl that are undergeared are not good cus bosses get more hp and makes the run take longer time and when u leveled ur own gear u want it to go faster not slower cus some ppl dont upgrade
THANK YOU! I've been referencing the time I got suckered into a Heroic raid and it was only me and one other 476 fill with 18 people who were in their 300s and some in the mid 200s. It was taking FOREVER! More HP means longer boss fights.
All the talk about "gatekeeping" ist bullshit. WoW is a progression game, whether it is through gear or difficulty. If you want to enter m+, you should be aware that your gear needs to be at a certain point, which you can get with m0 and heroic runs. To get the score you want, start to do all dungeons on +2, you´ll get around 1000 Rating for that. And with the gear you got from doing m0 and stuff, invites will come quite easy, alternativly just open your own group. Once you have your Rating for one week (Fortified), remember to get the same thing done for Tyrannical. Then you work your way up through the Keys. People won´t invite you to 10s straight away, because they wanna clear it. The chance of someone who cleared it on +9 to know what to do are just higher than for someone who cleared it on +2, so ofc you get denied. The same goes for the Raid, to clear heroic you should at least have it cleared on normal. Prople who are pugging a heroic clear run want to get it done smoothly, so ofc they look to get people who know the mechanics. You don´t want to progress with 20 random guys content that is 6 months old.
Really good insight on the subject. Your thoughts on mythic + should bring a lot of hope to people who haven't done mythic + in a good while. I like it. Good information.
Casual here... RaiderIO should die you can be a good player with a SHIT IO ....However, people are lazy on both sides some want the invite and not learn the fights or have the gear. Others can fully lead the raid and give clear instruction before each pull BOTH are too lazy to do it ...and yes for fairness there are people who stand in fire and not listen or try to do mechanics. ( for me I feel left behind a bit, but I prefer having a wife and a job LOL ) I wish I had time for it all, but the world does not work that way. My advice be content that your casual or be single in a cardboard box playing mythics ;) - oh wait I was thinking retail sorry my bad
I hear ya. Yea I've seen AWESOME players that don't have a score for anything and what not. Reading some of the other comments it seems like getting a group together for M+ is now a bit easier than it use to be? Not sure. Might have to check that out.
NOPE. ur missing 2 key points. Players gatekeep because they can SELL for GOLD carries into heroic raids. also regarding cosmetics, here its FOMO. a lot of cosmetics will be unacesible once Mopfun is over.
I like your thoughts. Really good points bro. I'm always open to realizing where I may have missed something down the line and I like getting comments that help me (and others) see things in a different perspective. Not a big fan of the "NOPE" intro, but all in all, really good insight bro. I like it.
Just want to note that @generationtpaul made a good point. By definition this is gatekeeping. What I was trying to get across is that people not getting into heroics due to their low gear level isn’t the “WoW gatekeeping” which is defined as “You’re a horrible person for not including everyone”. High level people want to blast through raids fast. A few carries are fun, but too many does have a negative effect.
It´s the same as all the other wow gatekeeping, youre making up an arbitrary number which is required to do the content, be it ilvl or M+ score. High ilvl ppl also want to blast through their key. The same principle you stated for Remix can be carried over to retail. Play since the beginning of the season and there are less ppl with higher score and ilvl and you get invited. You didnt do that? ok now you have to grind your way through lower keys to slowly build up score and ilvl. Its the same thing lol. With the only difference that i notice if theres a guy with 30 ilvl less in my M+ run compared to a boss taking maybe 30 seconds instead of 10 when there are some low ilvl ppl in my Remix HC raid ;)
you are 100% correct. All I did was do my daily every single day until I was maxed out once I maxed all my gear out. I had no problem getting into anything ever. Don't worry about the cosmetics until your gear is maxed out. Once your gear is maxed out you will be flooded with bronze and get every cosmetic extremely fast.
It works! Yep people just need to play the game, upgrade the gear, then it really takes off. Glad you’re having fun!
Having my one remix "main" at max gear, I'm able to do just the simple dailies (normal/heroic scenario + normal/heroic dungeon + heroic ToES raid) and that nets me 35,000 bronze. That's enough for any one mount per day or 7 different ensembles from the vendors.
for each additional alt, if I feel like logging in), I can do the exact same thing (but just a normal ToES) and get about 20-25,000 bronze to get 5 ensembles or some toys. It is NOT too late to get a main to 476 and start farming out the cosmetics. At this point, I have all the ensembles and heirlooms and I'm just doing the 1 mount/toy per day until I finish. Any extra bronze I get on alts will speed up that process.
And I still have more alts/classes I need to make, which turns out to be ~70,000 bronze by the time they get to level 70. Again, I already have all the ensembles bought, so the rest is just mounts/toys and running LFR for the weapon drops.
100% agree. It's not too late and if people wanna get in on it now, now is the time to do it. Being OP is fun too. Not sure when we're gonna get another chance at feeling like this. Maybe the next remix if they do one.
I don't understand why those that "can't get into a group" don't just make their own group. It feels like they are trying to pass the buck off to everyone else. This goes for both mop remix and m+.
Very true.
You may pick up some high ilvl people who didn't feel like making a listing, or who want to help.
At 476 ilvl I've intentionally joined a group with one boss down in H ToT, and they were grateful for the "pity".
@erinjones5382 Right? I mean, I make my own raid groups in MoP Remix now and it's easy and fast. Doesn't take much effort. Just waiting a little bit for the people to show up.
Becouse it takes effort and you cant be easly carried.
By definition it is gatekeeping.
You're making a choice to include some people, and exclude others. Whatever the choice is based on.
It's not an inherently good or bad thing. It all depends on how it's done, and for what reason it's done.
No one in their right mind should fault you for respecting your own time enough to not want to wipe repeatedly on something that's otherwise a cakewalk.
In fact, no one should feel entitled to your time or effort at all. Regardless of how easy it is for you to do something.
That being said, what's really the point of getting to 476, and continuing to up your thread count, if not to overpower content? And if you're over-powering it anyway, what's the harm in bringing some people along, and making the process of bronze gathering easier for them? So they can also reach 476, and carry people?
The real reason I think this video was even made is trying to differentiate between people's current conception and definition of gatekeeping (All bad, no exceptions. you should never exclude anyone, and you're a meanie for excluding people), a toxic, fun killing practice. And some other concept that should just be called gatekeeping, but we have to call something else to differentiate it from the currently decided definition of gatekeeping.
Which would just be called "elitism" if we were back in 2009/2010. When gearscore was still an addon, not baked into the game.
Honestly couldn't have said it better myself. Your correct. It is (by definition) gatekeeping but if in the WoW community it's EXACTLY what you said. All bad, no exceptions, you should never exclude anyone, and you're a meanie for excluding people. That right there was the point I was trying to get across and you nailed it on the head. If 476 people wanna go fast, they they should go fast with other 476 people (and sure, have a few carry slots) but we don't have to jump into a raid with just one person that's 476 and the rest are 300. That's not respecting people's time when they wanna blaze through the raid. Thank you for clearing things up. I appreciate you.
Mythic + is not that hard to get into. There are 8 dungeons and the "goal" is to get a +10 on each dungeon for a total of ~2000~2500 points. Clearing a +2 (the entry level mythic+) is going to net you 150 points. If you do that for all 8 dungeons, suddenly you have a 1200 score and can start pushing that higher little by little. It's very easy to get into a +2.
That's good to hear. I guess when I was trying to do M+ runs back in the day it was difficult and people were complaining about it. I guess things have changed then?
I was always worried my main wouldn’t be able to perform enough to even be invited to heroics. I was also lacking the necklace at the time. My gear was already past 400 ilvl easily by doing lfr/dungeon/scenerios on a daily basis. Once I got my necklace I had a major jump in ilvl and had about three levels left on each piece of gear. I must say, doing the daily stuff cranked up my threads past 200k and I’m sure if I wasn’t working on my alt(second hunter lol) I’d prolly be close to breaking 300k now
That’s a lot of threads! Yea anything past 200k and you’re doing some MEGA dps for sure. Glad you were able to push through that whole thing and get to where things felt right.
Yes, use your main to gear up and then you can just play to get bronze and on your alts you only have to play for getting the bronze needed for the mog/mount etc. you want.
Great way to play!
Regarding remix people need to upgrade their gear. Even getting to 400 ilvl with buffed bronze from the crates is handy now. As someone whose ilvl is now 464, just upgrade your gear and then go smash heroics. Don’t expect others are obliged to take your fresh 70 with 300k hp into heroic raids, especially since heroic raids do fill quickly with near max ilvl people.
I agree. I've been trying to tell people since the beginning to upgrade their gear. Now we have a lot of QQing going on. I thought by now we would see a LOT more 476 people in the game.
I make groups all thr time for the standard WT and fill it almost instantly.
Yep. That’s what I do now, but I set it at a min ilvl of 420.
Having played remix in the early days i rerolled 3 days in and was behind the curve on gear and everyday the ilvl reqs kept increasing just out of my reach (if I had neck id have the req ilvl) for the exact same raids so I said fuck it and farmed lfr and heroic dungs until I was max geared and I finally got my neck and reached 476 ilvl
That’s exactly what I did. Just played the game until I reached 476 and then started farming bronze.
If we are just talking about MoP remix, it absolutely is gatekeeping. My druid is 476 and can almost delete a heroic raid alone. Even with one other person that's a pumper heroic raids are a joke. This isn't end game competitive content... it's smash your face and win mode. Not everyone has time to farm tons of bronze and they still should be able to enjoy a temporary game mode to it's fullest.
I disagree 100%. The reason for running heroics is to get bronze, and if that's the reason, then people who aren't accepted into a raid group can go do other things in order to get the bronze. Raid leads aren't holding them back from getting what they are already going to get in the raid, which is bronze. Mythic + however is different. You can't increase your M+ score unless you run M+ content. And if they don't let you in, then that's it. Game over. But in remix, you have so many other options in order to get bronze. And when you get enough bronze to upgrade your gear, then you can run heroics to get even more bronze.
@@Quaylin it doesn't matter though in remix. In M+ in retail those are timed and have potential for actual loss in keys. Remix is just a delete the mob mentality. Just because you chose to grind it out the long way doesn't mean that is the way it has to be, because it quite literally doesn't have to be. I've successfully run heroic raids with the crappiest geared 70's and we never once wiped nor were affected by their lower level gear as 476's. If that is an actuality then reality is that gear doesn't matter at this point in the remix mode.
Also think they should get rid of key loss as well and I never run keys why put things in the game that serve a single purpose to make something worse. I can tell you I'm new to Quaylins videos but I enjoy them because I've never been so happy to be so casual its like blizzard is trying to get rid of players LOL
@etta1024 Hold up. Are we talking about the same thing? Just wanna make sure. Really good points you putting down. Love it. So there's another comment here that broke down what I was trying to get through with the term "gatekeeping". Per definition, it is gatekeeping with what people are doing, but what I was trying to say is that the process of not letting people into heroics because their gear level is too low, is that it's saying that all of the 476 players are "All bad, no exceptions, you should never exclude anyone, and you're a meanie for excluding people." When I have actually been in a raid with only two 476 players, and the rest were mid 300 and below. It was so painfully slow that I left half way. It wasn't respecting the time for people who want to blast through the content for bronze. So what I was saying is that when people say "no" to others for trying to join a heroic at a lower ilvl, it's not the "WoW Gatekeeping" as in "you're a horrible person for excluding people". A few carry slots it fine. But a full carry of 8-9 people that most likely will die in many of the encounters...unless I'm offering to go slow and help out. I'm not looking for that. Does that make me a horrible person? Because I don't want to just carry people all day by maybe have a few carry slots in my raid group?
@GLeonard I appreciate that, brother. Yea I'm down to discuss things with everyone as long as it's all respectful. My mind is TOTALLY OPEN to change if you have really good points and you don't attack me as a person or content creator. But I've actually had people help me see things in a new light because of what they said.
Its flex and taking ppl that are undergeared are not good cus bosses get more hp and makes the run take longer time and when u leveled ur own gear u want it to go faster not slower cus some ppl dont upgrade
THANK YOU! I've been referencing the time I got suckered into a Heroic raid and it was only me and one other 476 fill with 18 people who were in their 300s and some in the mid 200s. It was taking FOREVER! More HP means longer boss fights.
All the talk about "gatekeeping" ist bullshit. WoW is a progression game, whether it is through gear or difficulty. If you want to enter m+, you should be aware that your gear needs to be at a certain point, which you can get with m0 and heroic runs. To get the score you want, start to do all dungeons on +2, you´ll get around 1000 Rating for that. And with the gear you got from doing m0 and stuff, invites will come quite easy, alternativly just open your own group. Once you have your Rating for one week (Fortified), remember to get the same thing done for Tyrannical.
Then you work your way up through the Keys. People won´t invite you to 10s straight away, because they wanna clear it. The chance of someone who cleared it on +9 to know what to do are just higher than for someone who cleared it on +2, so ofc you get denied.
The same goes for the Raid, to clear heroic you should at least have it cleared on normal. Prople who are pugging a heroic clear run want to get it done smoothly, so ofc they look to get people who know the mechanics. You don´t want to progress with 20 random guys content that is 6 months old.
Really good insight on the subject. Your thoughts on mythic + should bring a lot of hope to people who haven't done mythic + in a good while. I like it. Good information.
Best way to get into a group is making your own group!
Absolutely. I make all of my own groups now. If I don't then I look for a group that's titled "LEAD 476 blah blah blah" lol.
Casual here... RaiderIO should die you can be a good player with a SHIT IO ....However, people are lazy on both sides some want the invite and not learn the fights or have the gear. Others can fully lead the raid and give clear instruction before each pull BOTH are too lazy to do it ...and yes for fairness there are people who stand in fire and not listen or try to do mechanics. ( for me I feel left behind a bit, but I prefer having a wife and a job LOL ) I wish I had time for it all, but the world does not work that way. My advice be content that your casual or be single in a cardboard box playing mythics ;) - oh wait I was thinking retail sorry my bad
I hear ya. Yea I've seen AWESOME players that don't have a score for anything and what not. Reading some of the other comments it seems like getting a group together for M+ is now a bit easier than it use to be? Not sure. Might have to check that out.
NOPE. ur missing 2 key points. Players gatekeep because they can SELL for GOLD carries into heroic raids. also regarding cosmetics, here its FOMO. a lot of cosmetics will be unacesible once Mopfun is over.
I like your thoughts. Really good points bro. I'm always open to realizing where I may have missed something down the line and I like getting comments that help me (and others) see things in a different perspective. Not a big fan of the "NOPE" intro, but all in all, really good insight bro. I like it.
By definition it is gatekeeping.
You didn't read the pinned comment.