@natsur1361 The truth??? For the love of God Rust types Andrew Tate an LIE So3, why? Because his Panjungian friend Rwvry told him that "So3 can't be SLE... Andrew Tate being Ni creative or anything close to 4D Ne is a terrible take for many resons, main one that Andrew Tate had so little foresight or future orientation that there are literal videos out there of him publicly admitting the crimes he has been accused of due to being just focused on the immediate and present moment, unconcerned with the future just present ... even So3 LSE Andrew Tate would make more sense over LIE, but guess what, his Panjungian friend told him that So3 can't be LSE as well, so no LSE If Rust cannot see the clear signs of contradictions in his own claims, and just how many times he has contradicted himself, and his lack of consistency, then he most likely doesn't care about the truth but rather the public's opinion on what the truth is What do I mean by this? Rust's opinion has been consistently the same as general consensus of PDB, as PDB got more restrictive on correlations, so did he, as PDB got more Panjungian, so did he, and it's a clear patten that he cares about what general public considers "the truth" rather than what he himself consider logical, Rust is saying "So3 can't be SLE" but Rust my man you yourself might be one (not claiming that he is, just saying I wouldn't be surprised) He claims that SEE's are not expressive due to not valuing Fe, but at the same time, claims that Sx1 is LSE only, well guess what Sx1 is a type which willingly enters conflicts, goes with aggression to get what they want, and are constantly trying to assert their will on others, so if it's unvalued Se, then why are they so awfully having so much of it and being in contradiction with what Si creative is all about? Do you see how he contradicts himself, suddenly when it no longer benefits his narrative he'll change it, but when it does, he will follow it, nowadays I bet he'll claim that "unvalued/valued" functions do not matter because it doesn't align with his new narrative, even though in the past it did matter to him He doesn't have a clearly defined system of beliefs and his personal truths regarding typology, instead relying on others for this (particularly Rwrvy who's openly admitted to being a Panjungian) and he'll change what he believes once they and general consensus change their views All of this are not his takes, but Rwvry's takes, you literally see Rwvry's signature at the end of the document, and Rwvry is a known Panjungian, with whose takes I heavily disagree for many reasons and twisting Jungian theory as "the same" as Socionics but that's off-topic
@@Eye777-g4ihow much I hate people stating “truth” all the time people who say this usually have NO IDEA is what they’re talking about, face it! Things changes and there’s no objective “truth”
Why Enneagram 1 only fits LSE explained here : docs.google.com/document/d/1SK15M5D5Cs_U6fsqoyi2K8ZLjDfKcbabdGwVLWa29tg/edit Why SX 4 only fits ESI explained here: docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUOZ6oYohlwD32uoATFEwXx8Q1Ha3Osy94Q37gSlnj0/edit
Really? I don't know how SO3 who is materialistic type that focuses on appearance but can't work with SxE (Se is relatable with action-oriented, appearance, muscular...) Strategic doesn't mean sensing type (isn't E8 strategic but Se-base ES), how come E3 FxVx is a future oriented type? FxVx overcomes her fear and insecurity by gaining confidence through appearences, money, and sex appeal. Where is the problem with Mulitfaced Se-Base? ES is the type that is most adaptable and also harmony with its reality, Even Naranjo Use ESTP as example of E3 >> E3: I recognize the ennea-type III pattern in Kernberg’s7 description of hysterical personality. I quote from his description of its manifestation in women: “A dominant characteristic in women with hysterical personality is their emotional lability. They relate easily to others and are capable of warm and sustained emotional involvements-with the important exception of an inhibition in their sexual responsiveness. They are usually dramatic and even histrionic, but their display of affects is controlled and has socially adaptive qualities. The way they dramatize their emotional experiences may give the impression that their emotions are superficial, but exploration reveals otherwise: their emotional experiences are authentic. These women may be emotionally labile, but they are not inconsistent or unpredictable in their emotional reactions. They lose emotional control only selectively, vis-a-vis a few closely related persons concerning whom they have intense conflicts, especially of a sexual and competitive nature. "He adds that: “even though hysterical women are prone to emotional crisis they have the capacity to ‘snap out’ of such crises and evaluate them realistically afterwards” and that “they may cry easily and tend toward sentimentality and romanticism, but their cognitive capacities are intact.” This is in contradiction with Shapiro’s observation8 of “a cognitive style of hysterical patients characterized by their tendency toward global perception, selective inattention, and impressionistic rather than accurate representations”-all of which, I think, fits the histrionic ennea-type II well. While men with a hysterical personality may be differentiated from those with histrionic personality also in terms of the more restricted field of lability and impulsiveness (“while maintaining the capacity for differentiated behavior under ordinary social circumstances”), and they are also characterized “by a pseudo hypermasculine quality, a histrionic accentuation of culturally accepted masculine patterns, usually a stress on independence and superiority over women, combined with childlike sulkiness when such aspirations cannot be fulfilled.”9
If you wanna make correlations like this I think you should also mention the sources you use. For example if you use Naranjo, then sexual 5 IEI sounds plausible, but if you use Ichazo, it seems rather fishy at best.
Naranjo is the reason why people keep mistyping IEI as E5. He messed it up by using Chopin as his primary example for sexual 5, but the problem is that Chopin is actually social 4. Other than that, he typed Sartre (the archetype of social 5) as sexual 4 …💀
Hey, I was wondering about IEI, why would SX5 fit with IEI in your opinion ? I'm asking because I've seen a lot of people that were on Typology, that were saying SX5's description was miswritten and that Naranjo had probably confused it in some paragraphs with SO4 apparently and that so SX5 and IEI was contradicting. Like the most important argument was that IEI was irrational and SX5 was Rational which meant it was contradicting. What's your opinion ??
sx-5 is called the romantic for a reason. And yes they act like so-4 because they idealize their partner and express their inferiority and envy. IEI does that and they also have Ni. The Ni subtype (IEI-Ni) may behave like sx-5. Just like ILI subtypes.
@rwvry So it means if you are prone to fantasy and imagination, it doesn’t make you high Ni and it’s just normal human mechanism? So how would Ni manifest in mental imagination apart from fantasy?
Even from the eyes of the SLE and SEE, they will think they fantasize a lot, even if those "fantasies" are pretty grounded, it's their interpretation. You're gonna have to go deeper than that. Something like fantasizing being an indicator of anything is too vague and superficial, it's something most people will relate too. This is why most "personality tests" suck, they ask this type of question. It's like asking if someone is analytical, again, even from the eyes of the SLE, they are analytical, calculated, methodical
I agree with these combinations. I think the reason people think E1 for LSI is because they see that it’s usually an ISTJ in MBTI and assume ‘tight ass’ without further scrutiny. I also find it funny that those Facebook morons type everybody as SP 6 which basically means they’re all getting typed EII. You can always tell where someone’s Ti is based on whether or not they think all combos are possible
Yep, the way i view it, if a person does not see a contradiction between two opposite concepts then you're dealing with someone with disabled levels of Ti
This updated version really helps. I really want to write fictional characters with consistent correlations so they would appear more realistic (I've written a character in the past who was an SEE but sp7, which didn't make any sense since 7s are futuristic while SEEs are not. This was because of that character from Wolf of Wallstreet). Thank you for updating, Rust.
I'm surprised about ESE SO9, why is it no longer possible? And why would SEI, one of the laziest sociotypes to exist, be the archetype for the hard-working SO9? Also, why no IEI SP6? I thought your wife was one
SEI can be "hard-working" (the term used in its conventional meaning) as well. I am so9 (probably) and sei, I don't think I am lazy in the conventional sense (not the most accomplished person but I got perfect gpa through college and working on my master's degree along with an internship and TAship). But work for me is a way to numb my inner feelings so that I can avoid spending the real effort to pull me out of a bad situation (trying to improve after learning about socionics and ennaegram though it is really really hard for me to do so). I work hard mostly to not let other people down, not because I am goal-oriented or achievement-focus. Work, in a way, became a type of comfort for the SO9 or the SEI .
I think he forgot to mention IEI Sp6 About the SO9 is bc SO9 aren't rational, you see every enneagram follows an strick cognition, all E7, E3, E1, E8 and E2 are extraverted while all E6, E5, E4 and E9 are introverted. All E9 are sensory introverted dominant, SEIs aren't lazy. The thing is, SO9 have no presence or impact in a emotional atmosphere, they rather adapt or keep it on the harmony level, it's a good usage of Fe (3D) not a dominant one.
Rust and Raven only use Aushra as their reference for socionics. If you are using some of the other popular resources for socionics, the ESE is depicted a bit differently, which may lead to different correlation conclusions.
I have an ENFJ friend who is a social 2, you are spot on there. However, I also have an ENFj sister who is a social 9. I'm an ENTJ SP3, so you go me there.
Could you expand on the IEI and sp6 stance? As an sp6 I've been thinking I'm an IEI, but i was debating EII for a long time too. I'm not as well versed in socionics yet so it's been a complicated journey to come to a conclusion haha
Nothing much to say, people basically argue that SP 6 is much more of a rational type than it is irrational, thus making IEI doubtful candidate. Opinions.
@@Just_Rusted when you say rational are you referring to being more pragmatic about the way sp6's approach things? I always got stuck on the rational aspect due to the high anxiety of sp6's, but I guess I just needed to look at it from another angle
I really appreciate the format of these videos. The way you speak is very formal and professional which is ultimately good for business. Rarely to no swearing. I also like the way you say "we", you present your findings as if by a team or an organisation, which makes the takes more easy to accept.
What type would you say the Joker is from The Dark Knight I remember last time you said he was an EIE So7 but now that seems contradictory so has he changed to an ILE or an IEE He’s nothing other than a 7 btw, every Joker minus Arthur Fleck is a 7 Core Jack Nicholson’s was an Sp7 (Probably the only LIE Joker I’ve seen) Cesar Romero’s May have been an Sx7 I’m not sure, maybe So7 Mark Hamil’s was an So7 Pretty much all of the Joker 🃏incarnations have been 7 cores It’s just like Batman being a 6, he’s pretty much always an LSI 6
@@rwvry nah that’s capping bro, there is no way in absolute hell the Joker from the Dark Knight is an So2 For one I see no 3L or skepticism on the realm of ideas, I see more 2L combined with 1V, he’s always trying to twist ideas and reality and make people go on his side I also see 3E because he’s very dismissive of dramatic escalations and always remains level headed when shit goes down When Gambo tries to beat him in the kitchen he calmly threatens him with a shit Ton of grenades Also I know Mbti is a shitty system but the dude is the definition of an ENTP, and ENTP So2 is the most non existent type behind ENTP Sx8, I don’t see any Ni nor any Fi He also doesn’t really care what people think of him and when he’s called a freak he just doesn’t give a crap, unless they call him crazy and he tells them straight up “No I’m Not!”
@@rwvry The Joker is Rational yes, so how can he be a 2, Naranjo states that E2 as a whole is Anti Intellectual so how could he be one if he’s rational I have seen the movie, Thrice, and he is dismissive of Dramatic Reactions, he always remains level headed throughout the movie, he may have dramatically expressed himself in 2 scenes but that’s it, other than that he always talks in a deadpan manner Sentimental? When has he ever expressed feelings of sadness or tenderness, probably the only scene where he acts out emotionally is when he’s fighting Batman with his Dogs In the Hospital scene he tries to twist reality when talking to Harvey “When you and Rachel were being abducted I was sitting in Gordon’s Cage… Now, I didn’t rig those charges” Also how is he a 3L, when was he afraid of expressing his own ideas in fear of criticism, he seemed very confident in discussing his plans with the criminals in the Kitchen I agree he’s 1V and 4F but 3L? Nah
@@rwvry yeah, was gonna ask what about The Riddler from The Batman On PDB he’s typed as an INTP Sx4w5 which is obviously Contradictory, I do see him as a Sx5 more than an Sx4 cos Sx5s are more passionate and obsessive about individuals, in this instance the Batman, he sees him as a God who has basically inspired the riddler to use fear and violence to get what he wants and he wants to join up with him and be his very best friend and they can destroy Gotham’s corruption together I also see him as an ILI due to Fe Polr and Fi Mobilising being very frequent, he’s a guy who can’t physically establish relationships himself due to his clear undiagnosed Asd and he never liked playing with peers in the orphanage, when someone came up to him to try and help him he dismissed them because he didn’t know why they were doing that, I really don’t see him as Fe Creative and Fi Demon Only reason why people say he’s not an Sx5 is because their view of a 5 is what an So7 is lol
@@rwvry not really, if you read the Prequel Book he’s very socially unaware, I even mentioned a girl called Bev tried to be friends with him and he dismissed her due to skepticism on her motives When he is criticised by Batman does he mentally breakdown which is something that is quite Fe Polr “They dislike sharing their emotions because they fear criticism” Also he isn’t Fi Demon, he focuses more on his relationship with Batman and when he focuses on his little “4chan crew” he expresses his own Joy rather than the Joy of his crew, and he also talks to them in a deep and profound way, like he’s talking to them as 1 to 1 rather than 1 to 507, he doesn’t act sensitively to the emotions of other people and rather focuses on his own emotions Also he expresses his own emotions to the “4chan crew” while he’s wearing the mask He says “My mask allowed me to be myself completely, no shame, no limits” it means he’s afraid of being himself in fear of criticism which is what Batman gives him during the Interrogation scene and it’s why he breaks down completely An IEI doesn’t really value 1 to 1 stuff and focuses more on larger groups, which is why people like Arthur Fleck don’t really focus on close relationships and more the atmosphere of larger groups but can be Adept to them
Just a thought if a certain socionics type can only be a certain enneagram, and childhood influence is such a big factor on enneagram - does that mean that socionic/jungian psychological type came from childhood experience as well? coz as far as I know, no one has yet a valid explanation about "where types come from."
@@Just_Rustedlol yeah it makes sense it's always both, which might imply the ennaegram only focusing on childhood experience as formation of type might be incomplete. I wonder how genetics/epigenetics interact with early life experiences in the development of type though🤔
What's the argument against Sx4 IEE? I think I know several, some very well. Although I'm always open to being wrong about the enneagram, the hateful, shameless, emotionally expressive Sx4 makes so much more sense to me as Fe demo than Fe ignoring. Let me know. While I'm at it I don't think any Sx5 explanation I've seen does the IEI Sx5 justice. Surely the IEI of all types does not become a stalker impervious to the gaze of strangers (Fe PolR)? Would like to know more. On the other hand much I see on the So4 seems polluted by IEI experiences, for example the talk of having/maintaining a vision of ideal beaviour/profoundness which automatically excludes all types but the beta NFs. Love your work, defs what typology needs, keep it up.
The people you type as SX 4 IEE are IEE SX 7, talkative, chatty , expressive, random, exhibitionistic, SX 4 is primarily guided by subjective feelings to the world, those emotions are not flakey or situational like they are in IEE, not only that but SX 4 is also Se valuing type. docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUOZ6oYohlwD32uoATFEwXx8Q1Ha3Osy94Q37gSlnj0/edit
@@Just_Rusted Thanks, was just reading the doc and I understand your view. Now to reconcile the fact that some of the most melancholic, emotional, sensitive and all in all pitiful people I know are apparently happy go-lucky 7s. Not sure what that means for the explanatory power of the enneagram. Is there a place where I can find all those wonderful documents you make? No way I'm cracking this code on my own.
These are mine from personal experience and reading the individual types via Ashura & the enneagram books (don’t take this to heart, ppl in this community need to learn to not be so bothered by numbers anyway) LSE: e1 [so1] sp3 (so3) IEE: [sx7] so7 SLI: [sp9] [sp5] EII: [sp6] sp4 so4 SLE: [sp8] so3 so8 EIE: [sx3] so2 sp2 so7 LSI: [Sx6] so6 (sx1) IEI: [so4] sx5, sp6 ILE: [sp7] so7 ESE: [Sx2] sx3 so2 sp2 (so9) LII: [so5] so6 sp5 SEI: [sx9] [so9] LIE: [so3] sp7 so7 sp3 SEE: [sx8] sx2 so8 ILI: E5 [sx5] ESI: [Sx4] sp4 (sp1) [] = archetypical () = on the fence about
Would you make a new Socionics-MBTI correlation? I know that's a shitty system, but I still try to type people and they wanna know their mbti, so do I Like, the new Batman would be ISTP or ISTJ? They both could be LSI, right? And If someone know the answer, Andrew tate would be 8? The wold of wall street LIE So3 or ILE 7? Homelander?
New batman is an ISTP. Andrew Tate would never be E8, he is way too conforming and bases his self worth on certain criterias of what deems one worthy, that is much more fitting of ET, establishing standards that you have to adhere to, LIE SO 3 could be argued. Homelander SP 2 probably
@@National-Democrat.Ukrainian Homelander shows that he value Se, but he's not confident enough to use it, ESE has 4D Se and do not value it. Also, Alpha quadra makes no sense since he likes being in an exclusive group, something private that not everyone has access to.
Hi! Thank you for the video! I found your channel trying to descovery my own socionics type, but I was in doubt between EII and IEI, so I tried solve it using the correlations (in my case is 6 sp/so, with LEFV, 649 tritype and RLOAI big five), meanwhile it made me more confused than before, because each of them can fit in I think, even with the help of the video, I still have questions about diference them
Hello, while both in theory can fit it, your combination is blueprinted EII. The way i'd difrrentiate both IEI and EII is Se > Si, the IEI values Se so it is a power drawn to power dynamics, the concept of dominance/submission/struggle can seem appealing to them, not only that but as a type, they're more likely to be more explosive, confrontational and combative. The EII being more stoic and firm in external expression is going to be much more outwardly avoidant and pacifying, they are Se polr, confrontations and even just conflict of any sort freezes them up, something they're deeply uncomfortable with, their reaction is much more avoidant and passive aggressive with more clear orientation towards comfort, familiarity etc.
@@Just_Rusted Thank you so much! I was thinking that I could be IEI because sometimes I have the desire to "live the moment", but I feel like I can't do that without a stimulus ( I don't mean that always when someone stimulus me I'll do something), but is hard do anything in the moment just for do. Now analysing the Se of EII description a think it can fit well
The known trolls idea of EIE is not accurate, they're a rational type, Daenerys from GoT basically, the idea of this non sensical provocative EIE random troll is simply due to IEE SX 7 mistypes
@rwvry i find it hilarious that all the mbti Ne doms came to socionics, realised they were EIEs only to learn more and realise that they are still in fact Ne doms 😂
@@Just_Rusted You can disagree with certain correlations, but you can't just make things up to support your arguments. EIEs are the troll archetype. Naranjo on Social 2: "They seek attention directly and confuse being taken into consideration with being loved. They may act in a provocative or unfriendly manner so as not to be ignored. They may act in a provocative or unfriendly manner so as not to be ignored. " Edited for further elaboration. I have a second comment in this thread but UA-cam shadowbanned it.
@@rwvry EIE is a Beta Rational type, but to basically illustrate them as Pseudo-LSIs is painting a poor picture. EIEs are Rational, but they are probably most irrational-looking rational type due to 4D Ne + 1D Ti. EIEs are indeed focused on global issues, but they are coming from an Ethical Extroverted point of view. The idea of an ENxP 7 troll in Mainstream Typology is just an EIE So 2. Like my reply to Rust said, So 2 is a provocative, emotional subtype; Which is the archetype for EIE. EIE So 2s are 1V leaders but their low physics more often than not leads them to incompetency. Rust portrayed it quite accurately: "EIE being controlled is useful and they would make a good spokesperson but EIEs being good at running a huge organization like that is again Fan-Fic coded. The archetypal EIE SO 2 is 1V and 4F, often busy daydreaming and fantasizing with superiority complex while neglecting their environment and failing to maintain the necessities of life that they find boring. [They] can even be a lazy c*nt who is slow to push into action. The idea of using the Austrian Painter who ran Germany from 1933-1945 as the Archetype for EIE So 2 is very inaccurate and borderline ridiculous. Whether you like him or not (for the Betas in the chat), you can't deny that AH was a very intelligent, calculated, and un-ordinary person with abilities higher than the average human when it comes to the Social Sphere. EIE So 2s if left unchecked can become man-children. A very, very, very, very unhealthy example of one is Onision.
For Rust (E8) In my opinion, the central themes of this channel require a self-inspection that the E8 neglects to make. So why would an E8 individual who manifests and develops through his lust find a need to share on this type of knowledge ? Where's the pragmatism in self-discovery ? More personally, is it my own demonstration of a vulnerable Fi ? Me : ?LE (Ti) little sociable
E8 struggles with introspection and their own personal blind spots, very true and that applies to me very much so, the journey of self growth or awarness are going to be easier for some types and harder for another but it is not impossible for any type, otherwise what is the point of enneagram? Can it be vulnerable Fi? Meh, i don't want to say that, i know few Fi polr people who are trying to discover themselves and grow from internal introspection.
@@Just_Rusted Okay, I get it. One more thing the search for my type is still rough right now. At first it was tireless curiosity only to result in a weakened sense of self critique at the very end. I concluded that my sense of self was on the surface and perhaps multifaceted in its personality to be directed at no basic type. Not wanting a definitive answer, but rather keeping the field of possibilities open for better adaptation. E8, E5, E7 and sometimes E3. Here's a summary of each, so as not to expand on this post and why it's so difficult to promote a type for me. Not E8: too cerebral to conceive her future. Not E5: too assertive to hold back from potential material opportunities. Not E7: too meticulous in his perception of implementation. Not E3: too stingy in demonstrating qualities/resources/status to others.
Why not E7? The type doesn't need to struggle with implementation, the fact you're out here "keeping things opened with possibilities" already seems E7
@@Just_Rusted "English isn't my language" You raise an important point! Without going too far, I don't disagree with this idea which has also been built up over a long period of reflection. However, I could define myself as an E7 with a devaluing conception of the world and conceiving an ascetic approach far removed from any voracity. My thirst for ideas and the generalization of pleasures is gradually fading, giving way to a collection of constructive experiences waiting to be carried away by its next ecstasy once the moment has been chosen. Reveling in it with finesse, imagining what it will become until it's over and there's no energy left for it.
About sp6 i can suggest to analyze them: Princess Diana, Timothée Chalamet, Winona Ryder. I personally never tried to type them, but i saw people talking about their enneatypes to be sp6 and all of them already typed as IEI by many🤷♀️
I know these videos are meant to help you find your enneagram, and that's pretty cool from you to do but honestly I've just confused myself even more. I'm an SEE and I was sure SP 7w8 was my thing (since through research I discovered other instinctual variants are imposible for Se Dom) but then I was told "Nope, SEE sp 7 is actually so 3" and I was like "alright fine, still fits surprisingly. And now I just came to discover neither 3 or 7 are possible combos 🙃
@@Just_Rusted Two simple reasons: 1.- I took the test Many times and always get SEE 2.- I'm and ESFP at MBTI and just noticed SEE seems to be equivalent in the socionics system, soo I guess it just reinforces the results. I know way much more about MBTI than Socionics (dude, these topics are a mess of information), and I can tell I definitely use Se>Fi>Te>Ni, that mapping just resonates natural with me. However I was told that socionics are a better and more accurate system, and I just checked enough to find two different possible types for me: SEE and ESE I go for SEE since I do value my own freedom. I mean I do love engaging and Interacting with people, but being there 24/7 for others is just exhausting for me, so ESE discarded
1 - Tests are not reliable at all 2 - That is not a good way to look at it mainly because MBTI is garbage, the likelyhood of you being mistyped in MBTI is quite high all considered The argument against ESE is not solid enough to discard the typing, SEE is a forceful type that primarily focuses on power through personal relations, they tend to be aggressive types with a good understanding of people, their motivations, their own personal likes and dislikes, being the most rebellious sociotype they have no regard for structures and are completely individualistic ESE is more positive in emotionality, fun loving, expressive light SEE more aggressive, dominant, more focused on personal understanding of people, carving their path with autonomy and their desires against the world.
So I might be slightly r*tarded. But I’ve finally come to the realization that EII doesn’t fit me at all. And I’m very likely an IEI instead… which explains a lot actually. Anyways… 2E moment.
Does ILE having low Fi mean that they are unemotional and cold (both inside and outside ) people or that they don't know what their emotions are and struggle with them ? I am saying this because 3E is quite a emotionally turbulent type, which according to Rust every ILE is (either FLEV or VLEF ).
First of all, this channel it's amazing. I think you are funny and explain very well the topics. I am almost watching all your videos. Since i have started watching about PY, can you make a correlation video between Socionics and PY?
Appreciate for the kind words. I will be making Socionics PY correlations video down the line for sure, i wasn't that well versed in it so the correlations were not perfect before
I don't see it, SX 2 is way too sensorical, grounded for that, i used to contemplate that combination but i don't see how it can work with an intuitive type
@@Blizarrow I can't explain it - I personally never typed Andrew Tate. My reply is answering what you asked, which is how Rust types him. This is how rwvry types him too, that's why I said it
Well depends on how you interpret it I do think this list is a bit too rigid though, but yes correlation thing is controversial and subjective in many ways
Here are the “logical” premises you’ve essentially put forth about E8 and SLE/SEE: E8 SX = “Anti-intellectual” E8 SO = “Intellectual” SLE = “Intellectual (3D creative Ti)” SEE = “Anti-intellectual (1D PoLR Ti)” According to these premises, therefore it should follow that: SLE ≠ E8 SX SLE = E8 SO SEE ≠ E8 SO SEE = E8 SX HOWEVER, in this video you’ve alleged that SEE can be a social subtype of E8. By the very premises you’ve put forth, this doesn’t make any fucking sense. Within your framework, please explain why is it that an SEE can be the only “intellectual” SO subtype but SLE can’t be the “anti-intellectual” SX subtype. Please explain this contradiction. Perhaps you really are SEE. because the math ain't mathing. lmao
First of all, the reason why SLE SX 8 does not work has nothing to do with anti intellectualism, that's just one part you nitpicked in the sea of other information because again, you are simply defending your own self type. To correct some things, Naranjo defined types in three categories: Emotion, Intellect, Action He assigned them accordingly: Intellect - SP 8 Action - SO 8 Emotion - SX 8 So the idea of "intellectual 8" belongs to SP 8 due to their ability to use information to gain advantage and fullfill their desires, they're considered the strategic E8. SP8 cannot be SEE because it's considered the most cold blooded, inexpressive and impersonal subtype that treats others more like objects than people, it is also able to exist within structures and will often use hierarchies in order to seize power, they're considered the most pragmatic subtype. SX8 cannot be SLE because it's the most expressive and emotional subtype, they care about flaunting their rebellion in face of others even if is unwise, without any respect for structures and hierarchies they are known to act on pure impulse without considering any consequences to their actions, this subtype is very relational as it seeks to control, dominate relations and posess people.
@@Just_Rusted 1.) You may confuse yourself but you can not confuse me. 3:48 “Some of the portraits of the SX8 portrays a person who is very anti-intellectual, they are not interested in understanding logical structures or structures, at all; they’re very rebellious, they have no structure of their own in the completely free-spirited way they go about doing things.” These are your words, verbatim. It is false and inaccurate to literally say that SX 8s are anti-intellectual (as a reason why this does not correlate with SLEs) and then say that it has “nothing” to do with why SLEs can’t be SX 8. Clearly, it has SOMETHING to do with it, or else you wouldn’t have offered it as a reason. It was literally one of the first things that came out of your mouth. YOU KEEP CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. Any strong Ti valuer knows that words and definitions are crucial. A central component of Ti, especially strong Ti, is logical consistency in one's argumentation and you are pissing all over that (and looking more and more like an SEE) with weak but overconfident, mobilizing Te). There is no other “sea of information” that I have ignored -one of the central conceits of your premise is that SX 8s are not “thinkers (which, by definition, is aligned with being ‘intellectual’).” 2.) The following quote is taken from the E8 chapter of “27 Personalities: In Search of Being”: “In relation to the other subtypes, the sexual one is more emotional, while the conservation one is pure action and the social one is the only intellectual eight.” This completely contradicts what you are now saying. CITE YOUR SPECIFIC SOURCE, or else I’m just convinced that you’re pulling shit from your ass. If you’re going to kneel and pray at Naranjo’s altar, then at the very least, don’t change his words. This is becoming very embarrassing for you.
SX 8 = operates against structures, hierarchies and rules as they don't have any regard for them, act on pure impulse without thinking about any consquences and going after what excites them, focus on relational aspect with degree of posession over people. SLE = operates in structures, hierarchies, often knows to impose them and work within them, impersonal and lacking relational aspect That is the core of the contradiction, for the same reasons why SP 8 can only be SLE, an SX 8 can only be an SEE, of course, all of this might be proven wrong when new book comes out or it will simply confirm everything i just said here, we will see.
@@Just_Rusted CORRECTION, dumbass: SLEs CAN/have the capacity to work well within structures, if they so choose; they can also successfully tear down those very structures and/or work around/against them, if they so choose. Demonstrative Te and creative Ti allows for a lot of flexibility in how things are done/accomplished. An SLE SX 8 is simply the most antisocial/“psychopathic” form of SLE and would more often than not choose to circumvent or work around structures even though they would possess the mental capacity to work within structures, as well. Your Ne and Ti are struggling like a MFer. lmao Just because YOU struggle to make sense of basic concepts, doesn’t mean we all share that problem. COPE. 🖤
Works for me, quite straightforward luckily. Always tested LII/INTP but it's probably actually ILI/INTJ, and have gotten that feedback that more likely I'm ILI w/enneagram 5. Also not so-dom- so yeah, quite an easy correlation.
Yep you had it real easy, it does happen like that for some people, i myself never struggle with the whole enneatype-socio shit, only subtypes were a pain in the ass
Rusted,what would you correlate Schizoid Personality Disorder to? I am schizoid,really closed to the real world things,even at cost of job,school,romantic relationships,etc... I've only 2 close friends that dont even live near me,so we only talk online and i've had (for a miracle) some romantic interactions in my life,this brief story was just to prove that i am a really fucked up guy that has a REAL problem about this,it fucks my life. My friends have many traits in common and i noticed high Ni signs in our conversations and interests. Would you correlate it to some specific Socionics,Enneagram or sum? Thanks.
@@rwvry THATS. THATS MEE😭😭 i always related to that last quote so fucking hard. i was jsut so confused for the longest time bc people kept saying ESE doesn’t work with SX2 which i found very weird ??? i couldn’t be SEE, no way, then i was like ok maybe i’m sp2? but it doesn’t fit either and sx2 is just always relatable. and i feel like people think sx2 is always gonna be like maddy perez aggressive and seductive but i’m more like the misa amane type of sx2 lol, obsessive and crazy. do you know misa? do you think she’s ESE sx2?
@@rwvry love quinn be relatable too HAHAH i’m on the fence with sp2 for misa but i think hachi from nana is a very good example of ESE sp2 one hundred percent. i need to rewatch death note and see, i haven’t watched in a while. thank you for the help btw
@@rwvry i’m coming back here because i believe misa is sx/sp she doesn’t gaf about people liking her, she doesn’t try to act pure or innocent, she only cares about light. sure she’s an entitled brat abut she really doesn’t hide her pride like an sp2 would
I agree with you about EIE(But i'll think about E7). They cannot be 2sx, 2sp or type 3. For example, we always thought Homelander was type 3 social. In fact, he is unhealthy type 2 social. Because his basic feeling is not 'self-deceit', but 'pride'. He sees himself as a blessing sent to all humanity and wants people to respect that. He even goes crazy because people don't see the greatness in him. He also shows E8 behaviors when unhealthy. Literally 2 core. I think SLE can't be 8sx, too. Because 8sx is all about possession. It'is very related with Se + Fi. All 8sxs I've seen are trying to dominate a specific person, not the group. This is literally Se blocked with Fi. Because the anti-hierarchical and chaotic structure of 8sx literally reflects Ti polr. Also, its overly rebellious nature shows that it overly disrupts the mood of the environment and therefore does not value Fe. And if we consider the opposite of all this, SEE cannot be social 8. Some of unhealty 8sp's or 8so's can bee seen as 8sx and some healthy 8sx can be seen as 8so.
1.) Since when does valuing Fe mean that one doesn’t want to “disrupt the mood of the environment?” First off, what counts as “disruption” is relative and context-dependent. And even if harmony was always Fe’s end goal (which I don’t think it is), it could very well be that some Fe induced environmental disruption could be implemented as a catalyst to ultimately reach some sort of Fe “harmony.” For example, an EIE might want to remove certain undesirable members from the group (in order to create their own version of ‘harmony’ around some ideology) by making the environment uncomfortable via broaching certain hot button topics in a controversial and provocative way or by taking jabs at members of the group they want to get rid of. I’d say that would count as active “mood disruption.” 2.) This is what Naranjo says about the “possession” of the sexual 8: “The word to define it is possession. And I used to think that this also had to do with physical possessions, but later I realized that this passion is limited to grabbing the other: the sexual eight is very possessive in his relationships. This word also has to do with taking ownership of the entire scene: the sexual eight always wants to be the center.” Nowhere did he say that “possession” ONLY applied to an individual person; he said that sexual 8s aim to takeover the “entire scene,” or environment and there can be many individuals within that environment. The SX/SP subtype of E8 is more focused on possessing specific individuals and the SX/SO subtype is more concerned with possessing the collective/the entire “scene”-In SLEs, this can manifest via the interactions between mobilizing Fe and base Se.
@@rwvry I actually agree that Homelander is more sp2 like emperor Nero. But so2 aren't literally very self assured in a naturally assertive definition like E8 when comes to psychological... its more an projection that they copes on. In E2 book is explained how so2 even feeling great, its more a fancy projection to hidden his secret fear of being perceived as a fraud. That's why he love to be praised, but at same can feels more distrustful/skeptical about to not looks externally as someone who depends on It - not being a legitimate reference; always wants to makes morally high in the environment being the person that he idealize and the others expected him to be, looking as someone legitimate.
@@rwvry sure, I don't question their social agenda or ambitions, they are focused on that externally to feeds their pride. But internally they have the conflict about legitimate or not. In doing things passionately genuine x for social status and secretly fears to others thinks that she is not legitimate and the savior that she portray to be
8sx puts on a show for the whole scene, but he focuses on the person he should be focusing on. 8sx provokes the person he wants to get. To provoke him, he plays the crowd against him. Playing to the crowd is a very good example. That's something that's related to SEE's 8th Fe. But the main purpose is to get the person he wants to get. But if you look at 8 Social, it's group unity. Friendship, unity of purpose, etc. This does not mean strong Fe, but valued Fe. Also, SLEs do not necessarily maintain the mood of the environment. Since they are Fi polr, they cannot use Fe properly, and they can mess up. As a result, SEE cannot be 8so. The definitions of SEE and 8so do not match at all. SEE and friendship, or unity of purpose, are opposite concepts. Anyway, it is illogical to talk about things like unity of purpose in gamma quadra. Also, SLE and 8sx do not match. The whole definition of 8sx is correlated with Ti polr. 8so and 8sp are literally 'Se blocked Ti'. The base function is like dough. Creative function is the second ingredient added to the dough. If you add sugar, you get a dessert; if you add salt, you get something else. When you think of Se and Ti, you get a person who targets society and not the other person. One last thing, Narajo is not a prophet sent to the world to teach people the truth of this system. @@obsolete2319
Other than insulting people and provoking them, what makes him SX 8? Considering the core of his mission was based on the social sphere, having suffered at the hand of extremists he himself decided to go full in with it too, he was into politics and journalism way before that happened, he simply became a ridical. He is what people think SX 8 is by stereotypes but is driven by a social cause and motivation, focused on the big picture hierarchies, social systems and everything that he percieved to be wrong with them
@@Just_Rusted You're assuming that sx/so people cannot be interested in the social sphere or society at all, which is simply untrue. Especially when you further look at what the sx/so instinct actually is. >sx/so: "This is the type that exudes the most raw charisma and sexual energy. They may identify so strongly with whatever they’re involved with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something while at once embodying it’s purest or most extreme form. Possibly attracted to radical views on politics, philosophy, spirituality or creativity that reflect their penchant for testing boundaries. They enjoy pushing other’s buttons, especially those resistant to their modes of expression. It’s not uncommon for them to have a pet social, political or spiritual cause which they’re able to support with heartfelt conviction. May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it. While prone to exhibitionism, they are strongly attracted to grounding influences which can anchor them and provide stability. Failure to satisfy an especially intense desire for connection may cause this subvariant to spite others at the risk of jeopardizing the need for an equal, stabilizing force. Can feel pulled between wanting a life of maximum intensity and reassuring episodes of peaceful convention. People think Paul is a Sx 8 because he is very provocative, openly rebellious, and declarative of his differential values. You have to elaborate what you mean by "intellectual" or by what Naranjo meant. E8 itself is an anti-intellectual type (with Sp 8 being the *most intellectual* subtype of 8.) Does that mean that only SEEs can be E8? Of course not.
"People think Paul is a Sx 8 because he is very provocative, openly rebellious, and declarative of his differential values." Yeah that's simply not enough, Paul is primarily motivated by attacking social structures due to being discriminated and opressed, pretty much losing his life, even wanted to start some race war. SX 8s don't care about any of that. Anti intellectual is not even that much of an important argument against SX 8 SLE, what matters is that SX 8 acts completely on it's impulses without regard for conclusions, they go after what excites them in the moment, they're rebellious and are against any structure, they're very chaotic people. SX 8 doesn't rebel for a cause or purpose, they simply do it, the reason why SLE SX 8 is shady is because it's a Ti ego Te demo and FI polr type, it creates a type that meddles with logical structures, hierarchies and can be imposing with such things, combine all of that with their impersonal attitude to people and relations, it's unlikely for them to be the posessive and relational SX 8. "He was a man full of vitality, who lived in the present moment without any concern for the ultimate conclusions, without thinking about tomorrow or anything that is not directly related to what drives him crazy." "In that conversation Rogozhin says: “You say that you love her out of pity. I feel no pity for her. What's more, I hate her.” He tells how Nastasya has confronted him on several occasions with different men and that it has cost him a lot of money, but he still continues with the idea of marrying her. " "In that conversation Rogozhin says: “You say that you love her out of pity. I feel no pity for her. What's more, I hate her.” He tells how Nastasya has confronted him on several occasions with different men and that it has cost him a lot of money, but he still continues with the idea of marrying her. " "He acts on pure impulse, he wants to dazzle Nastasya and nothing stops him; only afterward does he think of the possible consequences, and they do not matter to him." "When he first saw Nastasya, Rogozhin said, “something burned inside me.” The day after his first eye contact with her, his father gives him an order worth ten thousand rubles and he, without thinking twice, spends the money on diamond earrings to give to her as a gift"
@@Just_Rusted >what matters is that SX 8 acts completely on it's impulses without regard for conclusions, they go after what excites them in the moment, they're rebellious and are against any structure, they're very chaotic people. That is what Se Base 8s are generally like. If you're Se Base and Ni Suggestive, you're going to be an impulsive person that goes after what they want in the moment. If you're a Se Base 8, you are going to be a rebellious, chaotic person. Not all SLEs are SLE-Ti or SLE N/H in Model G who tend to have better Ni. SLEs are NOT Pseudo-LSIs; They are an irrational type. SLEs have Ti and can be structured, yes, but it exists to serve Se. SLEs are not bound by Ti. Most descriptions of Sexual 8s describe them as people very focused on power dynamics, which in my opinion fits both SEE and SLE.
Ti base is a close minded, rigid type with their intelect and ideas, SP5 is much more perceptive and doesn't focus on rationalizing/ finding a sacred truth about their ideas, they like to explore it on their minds, LIIs are also very rules oriented and SP5 couldn't not give less shit about being rigid.
Tommy Shelby (Peaky Blinders) Tony Stonem (Skins) The Master/Missy (Doctor Who) Littlefinger (Game of Thrones) Number 5 (Umbrella Academy) Eric Cartman (South Park, Possibly, he may be So3)
Yep, you're right. FLVE is often oriented towards materialism, success, prestige, status, posessions, that is something that an LIE can be drawn too in pursuit of ambition.
Here's some controversy for you. I could actually be an LSE not an SEE. ESTPs are generally going to be LSEs, SEEs or SLEs and I know you think LSEs are 1's and sp 3's - and they are but I think SLEs, SEEs and LSEs can be all be 8s. Now 8s don't like rules and I don't like rules, I've certainly broken enough and Sx 8 seems more SEE than SLE to me as I've said but I'm an 8w9 and I like a certain groundedness, getting things done and not a lot of nonsense. I think they're rare but possible.
@@Just_Rusted Sure, I figured you'd say something like that but even if It's not valued they're still capable of using Se. Se is the 8th Demonstrative function for LSE. "A person will often have just as sophisticated an understanding of this function as his or her leading function." Eights with a Nine wing hold more of their energy in reserve so to speak and exhibit more of a grounded, even stubborn quality. This is deffinitely true for me.They are generally less overtly volatile than Eights with a Seven wing but an 8 is an 8 when pushed, trust me. The Groundedness of the 8w9s seems like Se demonstrative to me. Just a thought.
@@mr.j8568 Don't use wings to justify such things, 8w9 is still an animalistic type, it's not some sigma male thomas shelby, LSE is a hard working type that adheres to standards of performance and limits pleasure in sake of such standards because they are rational types. They have very high Se so they are able to use it but it's not valued, the Se is used for Te purposes, think Gordon Ramsay who pushes people in order to reach the perfect formula that he believes is right and correct. Lust goes against rationality as it is prone to boredom, focused on intensity, triump, power and dominance, all of the things that make you value Se to a very high degree, it's a type that does not want to be restricted in any way and that involves putting restrictions on itself such as rigurous tendency to adhere to standards and being rule bound (LSE)
@@Just_Rusted I know all that. I've been living with that animal nature all my life. You can be an 8 with a prey drive and still be somewhat disciplined. And Wings Matter. Ramsay is a 1 so I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about those rare LSEs that aren't the stereotype. Let's just agree to disagree on this.
Great video as always. I have a question regarding SLEs, is it impossible for an SLE to be an sp3? I believe one of my close friends is. He's definitely not an 8, he's more measured and calculating for an 8. He's also achievement oriented and always strives to be seen as competent and such. I believe sp3 fits him best and yet he's too present and in the moment to be an LIE. What do you think about that?
@@reyumii6650 thanks for ur reply. I did consider that at first, but he's mostly fe valuing. Another thing as to why he's likely an SLE is his Se awareness, he's super in the moment and literally notices everything that happens around. It's like a super power. I don't know anyone else who's as aware of his surroundings as him..
No, SP 3 is primarily focused on efficiency, pragmatic and performance, that is how they measure themselves by, it's Te base as fuck. He probably is LSE SP 3.
"Another characteristic feature of conservation E3 is to feel that overcoming is a lifestyle. It's not just about doing better, but about being a better person. Adapting to the values expected of him reinforces the idea of being someone adequate and perfect." "It is a way of keeping vanity at “the right level,” not lowering the bar and doing a little more each time to surpass the previous mark, in front of others and in front of oneself. The conservation E3 is a character that strives to do well and bears similarity to the E1, which is a perfecter from morality, while the E3 is a self-perfecter from doing. From this position, he teaches others how things have to be at peace so that they go well, without error and if possible the first time." "Linked to perfectionism, order is a value that makes a lot of sense in the life of the conservation E3, who is ordered in the different aspects of his existence, from the material order in the house, to the family, or work." "Self-demanding has to do with not allowing mistakes and with things not going as planned, something that generates a lot of contained anger, since the great effort that he undertakes many times does not help him at all." This is not compatible with irrational type like Se base.
Ridiculous, you'd faster remove IEI SX 5 than ILI SX 5 imo. The reality is that E5 is painfully 3E coded and so is SX 5 so it's a very good for fit for ILI who also is Fi mob.
Nope. SP 3 is a hard working, responsible type that is focused on efficiency, pragmatism and performance as their core drive, ILE is not like that SX 4 is focused on their subjective emotions to a big degree as that is something that defines the type, their likes, dislikes, what they hate and love, combine that with clear valuation of competitiveness against the other and aggression, it is not compatible with ILE as they are Fi polr and don't even value Se Yes, Ne base to E7 is what Se base is to E8.
I think many of us thought So7 and EIE was possible because at one point we came from MBTI, and lots of EIEs (mis)type as ENTPs in that system. From there the obvious correlation was E7, and So7 is superficially close enough to So2 to seem like a match. No one would take an ENTP 2 seriously lmao
Thanks for the video. I have a question, I think I am infj, I have researched other types, none of them fit perfectly except infj. But when I look at my enneagram, I am not enneagram 4 at all and enneagram 1 suits me quite well. But LSE is not compatible with infj. How will I know which type I am, I'm very confused.
"The emotional brain is almost completely disabled in the Social seven. Rationalisation absorbs the energy produced in the emotional center. The result of this process is a complete loss of the habit of perceiving and discriminating the sensations that make up the various emotions, an ataraxia that plays a leading role in the functioning of the social E7, especially when marking the relationship with oneself and with others. The others from a fair distance." SO 7 is peak 2L type, not an EIE "The concept of charlatanism refers to the tendency of the social E7 to manifest its seductive capacity on the intellectual level through a skillful use of verbal intelligence. He can, in fact, present himself as a storyteller, almost a juggler of words, moving nimbly between irony, the use of metaphors, and a taste for handling intellectual concepts." "There is a strong similarity in this to the false abundance of E2. A magnificent idea of oneself can be expressed in similar behaviors in both enneatypes. Now, the E2 contacts the other with an emotional sensitivity that allows him to grasp his needs in advance and satisfy them, and this is how he earns the qualification of great seducer. The seduction of the social E7 is more oral, above all, mental. He catches more with his words than with his energy."
No, SX9 is one of the most passive and accomodating types, it is completely in contradiction of Se ego type which is much more assertive, confrontational and even aggressive.
"The social E7 lives on projects and fantasies about how he can realize his dreams, confusing the imagination with the concrete act of realization, and often remaining in the ideal illusion. It is common for you to start new projects with enthusiasm and then abandon them in the realization phase. This trend is due to two concomitant aspects. On the one hand, the difficulty of overcoming conflicts that would require the use of aggressive aspects, and on the other, that every realization implies frustration, since in the imagination more was expected from that project." They're not doers.
There is less than zero, one of the core traits of E1 is literally dominance and enforcement, they're very assertive gutty people who are are corrective, there is just no EII there. You relating to E1 just means you're SP4, most likely because you are a perfectionist who also can feel bad or guilty if you don't do well or be a good person
Frankly, when I read SP4, I saw something of myself, but the general features of 4 seemed a bit strange to me. I know I'm not as strict as 1, I was in between, but I seem to be closer to sp4 now, but I still need to continue researching. Thanks for your answer.
Head triad? Wanda fits heart triad and So4 so much more? I mean the whole of wandavision was literally just a So4 trying to withdraw from her suffering and her envy is also very apparent through out the mcu. Plus she seems like a very 1E 3V individual which Sp6 is iffy with cause they’re usually 2E 4V.
@@snowmists She barely has any envy, and her in MOM and Wanda Vision is a clear and obvious concept of SP6's warmth, where she desperately tries to cling to family and safe space to avoid her fear. 𝘞𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘦 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘬 𝘰𝘧 "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩" 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘶𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘰𝘧 𝘌6 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘸𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘢 𝘩𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘴𝘦𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘦𝘮𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘴, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘧𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘪𝘦𝘴. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩" 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘤𝘵 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘧𝘦𝘦𝘭𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘥, 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘢𝘧𝘦, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘢 𝘮𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳'𝘴 𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘦. 𝘈𝘭𝘴𝘰 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮" 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘦, 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘻𝘺, 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘴. 𝘴𝘰𝘧𝘢𝘴, 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘤𝘶𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘶𝘨𝘴... 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘣𝘦 "𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦" 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘶𝘨𝘦, 𝘢𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘰𝘣𝘴𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘰𝘬𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘴. 𝘉𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 «𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩» 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘭𝘴𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘯 «𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮» 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘴 (𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘌6 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘥, 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘵𝘰𝘰; 𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘳𝘢𝘱𝘴 𝘶𝘱 𝘢 𝘭𝘰𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘭𝘦𝘦𝘱𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘴𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘢𝘭 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘬𝘦𝘵𝘴). 𝘖𝘳 𝘪𝘯 "𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨" 𝘧𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘰𝘳 𝘥𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘬 (𝘚𝘤𝘩𝘶𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘵, 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦, 𝘥𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘬 𝘢 𝘭𝘰𝘵). 𝘖𝘳 𝘪𝘯 "𝘦𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨" 𝘮𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘤, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘤𝘳𝘢𝘥𝘭𝘦𝘴, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘷𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘴 𝘰𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘯 (𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘢 𝘨𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘩𝘺𝘱𝘯𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘴, 𝘥𝘶𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘰𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘪𝘵𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯). 𝘈𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘰𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘧 𝘌6 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩" 𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘪𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘢 𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘴𝘢𝘧𝘦, 𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘤𝘢𝘭𝘮, 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘢𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦, 𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦. Source: Naranjo's Cobardes book. Not to mention her childhood fully matches what forms SP6 neurosis: 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘶𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘤𝘪𝘳𝘤𝘶𝘮𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘭𝘥𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘳𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘰 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘉𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨. 𝘍𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘣𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘸𝘰 𝘱𝘰𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵: 𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦𝘳 (𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘦𝘵𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘳𝘺 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘤𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘥) 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘦𝘥 (𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯). 𝘉𝘺 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘰𝘶𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘭𝘪𝘧𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘶𝘢𝘭 𝘧𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘣𝘦 𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘰𝘱𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘣𝘢𝘥𝘭𝘺. Quote from SP6: 𝘍𝘰𝘳 𝘮𝘦, 𝘧𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘦𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺, 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘸𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘱 𝘢𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘥, 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘱𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘺, 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴, 𝘰𝘧 𝘢𝘣𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘰𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵; 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘯𝘰 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘴𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘦. Meanwhile Wanda: “At the age of ten, during all of the ongoing bombings in Sokovia, when her father, Oleg got home, Maximoff chose for her family to watch TV. Suddenly, a mortar shell hit their apartment building. Trapped inside the crumbling building, Pietro Maximoff moved himself and his sister under the bed, where they witnessed a second shell land three feet in front of them. Maximoff noticed the TV still playing, so she used it to comfort herself. For the next two days, the twins stared at the shell, reading the name Stark Industries on it, fearing it would detonate at any moment, but it did not and they were rescued. Maximoff and Pietro were subsequently admitted into a Sokovian orphanage.” I made her character breakthrough on PDB several months ago, and after reading Cobrades it only solidified her as SP6. I am also SO4 and while I relate to her on some levels, there is no way we share the same neurosis - her approach and coping mechanisms are way different.
@@Deadpan_Snarker I disagree tbh she has plenty of envy throughout the MCU otherwise MoM would’ve never happened & neither would have WandaVision. I see a six fix for her but her envy and her search for authenticity is much more stronger imo than her “warmth”. “Fours see the world from a garret window as outsiders and are not comforted: everyone else seems to be living a happier, more normal life.” Literally the whole plot of Wandas arc. There’s also this post I saw explaining how the trait structure of Social 4 fits her to a T which I also agree: Imaginative and Creative The emotional, sensitive, and introspective aspect allows you to more easily access your creative and imaginative side. From an early age, he likes to console himself and entertain himself in fantastic and dreamlike worlds in which his imagination allows him to compensate for the great inhibition he feels in real life. This imaginary world that he has created and in which he somehow believes will be able to materialize in the future, serves him to metabolize everyday reality. Poetry, art, and music become channels of expression to the outside. (literally WandaVision lol) “By the end of the episode, you realize it was all a bad dream. None of it was real.” “So, what I see here is a baby witch, obsessed with sitcoms and years of therapy ahead of her.” “I don’t know how I did it, I only remember feeling completely alone. Empty. Just endless nothingness” Sensible Low self-esteem and the need to defend yourself from others lead you to reject criticism or behaviors that challenge you. Their gaze perpetually directed to the outside world and the continuous comparison he makes with himself lead him to give a subjective reading and interpretation of what happens; the slightest criticism annihilates him, he feels that he has given a lot, more than the others, he finds himself again without recognition. In addition, since it is difficult for him to express his opinion directly for fear of being hurt or conflicted, he expects the same from others (understanding, empathy). “You break the rules and you become a hero. I do it and I become the enemy. That doesn’t seem fair” "Do You Know How It Felt? It Felt Like That” “He deserves a funeral at least. I deserve it.” “You have no idea how reasonable I have been.” Romantic For this character, life is hard, difficult and sad, but it is characterized by a romantic feeling inside. Thanks to his romanticism, the world becomes lighter and more bearable, it is as if he added a note or a touch of color to so much pain. The romantic vision that he harbors within him is expressed in the world through poetry, music, and the search for positive living situations and opportunities. It is as if he did not resign himself to the harsh reality through his romantic aspect. It is as if through romance he sweetened a bitter pill. Passive-aggressive and Self-destructive. “It’s been fun playing pretend for a while, hasn’t it, Wanda? But it’s time to look at some real reruns.” “I tried to be gentle, to nudge you awake from this ridiculous fantasy, but you would rather fall apart than face your truth.” Insecure He has the constant doubt that his actions or words can lead to difficult or irremediable situations, and that they can lead him to disappoint the other and be abandoned by him; this, of course, makes him very insecure. “But you’re so crippled by your own self-doubt that you believed it.” Reserved He is extremely private, and only talks about himself and his intimate experience with very few people, as he does not trust others to understand him. Since childhood he has experienced not being understood, not being seen, having the feeling that no one is aware of his needs, and therefore, as an adult, he has no faith that there is someone who can understand him deeply. Pessimistic and Distrustful Perceives the world as dangerous and unpredictable, so tends to always see the negative side of things and situations. Through his pessimism he believes he can anticipate and control the pain he will feel when something bad happens, because he is sure it will! He has no confidence in the course of events or even in himself, this becomes functional to remain passive and withdrawn. “It’s…It’s just like this wave washing over me, again and again. It knocks me down, and when I try to stand up, it just comes for me again. And I…It’s just gonna drown me.” Sadness and Suffering He is sad and suffers from a young age, even before he is aware of it; when he becomes an adult he continues to drag this suffering, since he remains attached to that need to receive that has never been satisfied. His attention does not shift, he does not find compensation in life because it is as if he is still waiting for that love. There is a part of him that is obstinate in not wanting to give her up and that is why he does not learn to give himself the love that he did not receive in childhood. Thus, love becomes something sublime, inaccessible, almost impossible to
@@snowmistsI am well aware of all the trait structures of So4 and I still don't see it for her at all. She doesn't match neither core trait structure of E4, nor So4, not to mention her childhood goes completely against So4s. I typed her based on Cobrades and I stick with it.
@@Just_Rusted I think they can be aggressive in their desires as well when they demand privilege. Privilege (the neurotic need) itself is a place of power and so suits an Se agenda. Gaining privilege through seduction corresponds to Creative Fi and Demonstrative Fe serving Se Base (since Base is Demanding and Creative and Demonstrative are Supplying). Some quotes from the SP2 book fit this version of the SP2: “Paranoia explores in an obsessive and emotionally blind way when the conservation E2 projects on the other the manipulative dynamics that he himself practices when he wants to please or conquer the powerful place of privilege. When he feels that someone does not support him unconditionally, or has to confront someone he considers superior for some characteristic, he immediately feels him as a rival, an enemy that can take away his place. There he deploys his aggressive and controlling weapons with the crazy idea of having the right to attack whoever threatens him, even fantasizing plots.” “If someone disappoints him or feels him in competition, he is very skilled at humiliating and attacking them to the point of making them a harmless rival. This manifests itself especially in couple or sibling relationships, as if he feels entitled to make the other pay the price for being submissive to his orders or whims. But also if he feels offended, criticized, or abandoned, taking away the other's power is a way of taking revenge and thus re-establishing his pre-eminence.” A fictional example of an SEE SP2 is Erin Brockovich from the movie IMO.
@@Just_RustedAbby Lee Miller (Dance Moms) is another clear SEE, and SP2, as that type fits her best. The fixation of false abundance and passion of pride is present. She is not an E8, lust and rebellion is not present, plus she is image triad. She is not an SX4, she is not core E4 (her competitiveness is the competition of pride not envy), and if you thought she were an SX4 you’d be accepting SX4 SEE as well. When her ego is attacked (SP2s are hypersensitive to criticism according to trait structure), she resorts to showing what she has done and accomplished, typical of SP2s being like “look at all I have done for you, you must treat me as special (aka do not criticize me).” This is also shown when she responds to parents’ criticism by threatening to remove their children from the program - it is a way of reminding them of her perceived status and power. This is her showing the privilege she believes she has “earned” through her accomplishments (“you must rely me on for your child’s success because I’m so great”), believing herself to be free from all criticism due to this, hence SP2’s diva-like behaviour, expecting preferential treatment when they do not deserve it (but believing they do). The emphasis on what she has *done* when it comes to her pride is indicative of the SP instinct, as it is the instinct of *doing* and *action.* So, pride related to her actions. The above behaviour, while being of the SP2, also overlaps with Se Base, as again, Se is related to power and status and the neurotic need for privilege *is* a neurotic need for a place of power. She fits the core of SP2 (essential), without some of the accidental traits of SP2, such as the “childlike seduction” and needing to be cared for. Those traits are more present in the ESE variant of SP2. It could be that ESE SP2s are more common, hence the SP2 chapter leaning towards that kind of SP2, since it comes from interviews with the type. Abby is also clearly an SEE, Se Base is apparent, she does not value Si, in fact it is suppressed as the Ignoring function. She does not strive to create a harmonious environment, she is like a go-getter, always wanting to achieve more and accomplish things and push forward. This is in line with Valued+Bold+Stubborn Se and Te. She also plays favourites at times, indicating valued Fi(+Se). Fe Demonstrative is always on in the background, being expressive, but not expressing positive emotionality like the ESE, instead expressing more “negative” emotionality as the Fe is in service of Se (Demo serves Creative which serves Base). Her Fe shows when her privilege (Se) is challenged, and is not used for its own sake. This is more like SEE, as the ESE uses Fe for its own sake (valued), and uses Se to aid in creating a harmonious environment which is used to bring everyone together. This is not like Abby, she is an Se Base whose Fe shows to help Se, she is not an Fe Base whose Se shows to help Fe.
SEI won't be SP 6 because the enneagram type relies too much on intuition, progression of time, past and future and deeper meanings, only EII and IEI IEI is either SO 4, SP 6 i suppose SEI SX 9 and SO 9
@@Just_Rusted Jack typed me SEI but then Jason typed me IEI. Neither one make sense and when I dig into socionics, EII and IEE fit. I digress on for sure being 9w8, lol. I’m convinced of everything multiple times a day but not much sticks.
@@Just_Rusted really?? That's so weird for her though. She disintegrates to 9 all vegged out lol. She does not disintegrate to 8. Idk man typology seems pretty limiting (I'm not iee lol) but I do love the work you're doing, it's grounding, buuuuuut she's a 3 man. She just is. Deceit and preparation. When she was a kid she was like a goofy 6. I kinda believe in the fallen child Enneagram theory. Like as a 4, I do distinctly remember my fall from a 1 to a 4. Maybe as an 8 you remember an early time where you were a 2 until some drastic change. You realized you wouldn't be able to survive as a 2 in your environment
@@Just_Rusted she doesn't have pride at all (unfortunately) but imma read the naranjo social 2 description right now! She always feels below tryna get back to where everyone else is. Hard time connecting with people, despite being ENFJ (I'd say it's bc a mixture btwn her Ni and lack of Si/6-ness). Idk why it's hard to imagine an ENFJ 3 but just in case I'm being dumb imma read the naranjo thing Edit: she's not as strong as a 2. She said she almost sometimes even feels like a sx9 cuz of how mellow/fluid she can be. As a 3 and 4 we take joy in hating on 2s together. They seem like the strange confident image type while we are like dying inside with no self esteem lol.
I understand, seems like it's something you're set on her not having any pride, i said SO 2 out of a superficial assumption that is actually correctly typed ENFJ. If you are certain of E3, look into SX 3, what you are describing sounds more like it, here, let me know what you think wiki.personality-database.com/books/enneagram/page/sexual-3-in-detail
@@Just_Rusted ah the mother thing hits. Our ESTJ mom sucks and my sister definitely has mommy issues. The kind of men she can't get over often have similar critical characteristics as my mom (who is a 1, ugh). It's pretty creepy haha how our partners often parallel something about childhood (I got the daddy issues lol, hence my attraction to unavailable ISTPs). But yeah she was always tryna please her and was obsessed with her image, her attractiveness. I even thought she could be 3w4 so/sx. Social first cuz she has this need to be attractive not only in the physical sense but in an overall sense. The audience is not just her object of affection but bc her Fe, it's like all of society, like she doesn't even want to live in our hometown just in case she sees someone from back then and she isn't prepared, doesn't have a good image atm. But maybe that's only so cuz she had Fe-user boyfriends. So maybe she is sx-dom. But I think so/sx is my main guess. I just don't know how that fits with your socionics-enneagram system. Is she an ESE or EIE? She has good Se but gets stuck in the Ni-planning mode more than Se-ing. She doesn't have Si AT ALL. She can barely comprehend Si
@@Just_Rusted SLE SP 8 to me is going to be more managerial, less 'gut instinct' or emotionally driven the way SX 8's can be. SX 8's are individualists, more Gamma Quadra stuff, more one on one. "I'm coming for YOU, you personally. ME and YOU." SLE 8's are group thinkers, top-down managers, authoritarians. Trump is an SLE, Churchill, Patton, MacArthur were SLE's. Seems to me like there's a cult of personality to SLE's, A LOT of propaganda. SX 8's might see that as a waste of time. SP 8's are focused on THEMSELVES, SX 8's are focused on OTHERS, MUCH more outwardly volatile and intense but not necessarily as bossy - SX 8's: "I WANT THAT." SP 8's: "You do this for me."
SP 9 is Fe polr type, not connected to feeling "The conservation E9 does not tolerate, in the long run, the intensity of emotions. Feeling too much is dangerous; there is the fear of losing control, fear of something that he does not know about himself, and that produces anxiety. He fears what he might discover and show if he follows the intensity and goes deeper. "
@@Just_Rusted Not tolerating “the intensity of emotions” ≠ not connected to feeling. Naranjo says that “feeling TOO much is dangerous”; there is a difference between expressing milder, surface level feelings and deeper, more intensive ones. SEIs have creative Fe (cautiously utilized, context-dependent) and strive to keep the emotional environment light and comfortable-they don’t typically have or showcase the same emotional intensity and dominance that Fe bases possess, for example; their emotional display is more muted. SEIs (and their Si dominance) and E9s are ever seeking to establish internal homeostasis with the external environment, in effect blending into and melding with the environment, thereby creating a “golden mean” as regards to their “presence” and “affect.” I think it’s totally reasonable and feasible that an SEI SP 9 would not want to disrupt the environment with bold, “intense” emotional displays. They are more apt to emotionally numb themselves in order to blend in and create "harmony." I think that the following quote from Naranjo describes the general vibe of SEI > SLI rather well: “So these conservationists are very loving people but deep down they don't have a sense of being loved. His resignation is the most prominent. And there is in them a kind of joy, a kind of tenderness that, however, is far from the full experience of love.”
@@yuuga109 I can't say anythning about the correlation to psychosophy but I do think that SEI sp9s exist--in Socionics, they usually belong to the SEI-Si subtype (accentuated Ti and Te, thereby creating an ISTX 'aura'), which I do believe manifests as a result of some degree of autism or autistic-like phenotype. I'm SLE-Se (accentuated Fe and Fi, and manifest an ESFX 'tilt') and I attract and get along best with that breed of SEI (mirage relations in ITR, which tend to be favorable).
SEE SX 8. The guys Fe is incredibly intense, he is chaotic af, gamma values can be easily justified and he is way to good with how he deals with people and gets in their heads.
these days i was thinking to ask you about eie so7 (because i read what kiwisito said and he made a great point and well i trust you and him) then i forgot but now i got my answer! great video, i do agree with evertything lmao, thanks for keeping us updated with these!
"The social E7 lives on projects and fantasies about how he can realize his dreams, confusing the imagination with the concrete act of realization, and often remaining in the ideal illusion. It is common for you to start new projects with enthusiasm and then abandon them in the realization phase. This trend is due to two concomitant aspects. On the one hand, the difficulty of overcoming conflicts that would require the use of aggressive aspects, and on the other, that every realization implies frustration, since in the imagination more was expected from that project." Like rwvry said in another thread, SO 9 has too little presence, they shrink in enviroment and go with the external.
Rust and Raven only use Aushra as their reference for socionics. If you are using some of the other popular resources for socionics, the ESE is depicted a bit differently, which may lead to different correlation conclusions.
"“Thought is disconnected from reality, and fantasy is no longer just something possible but a confirmed reality (obviously verified only at the level of your thought). The state of confusion between reality and thoughts is such that he believes in them as if they were “facts,” concrete data, and proven truths. The perception of being attacked becomes a reality from which it is necessary to defend oneself. The counterphobic, then, is always on the alert.” "“I had deeply rooted ideas, with convictions that prevented me from seeing the nuances and that kept me rigid, unable to reach an understanding, without any possibility of changing concepts. They reinforced my idea of always being right, of loyalty to the given word and of honesty in intentions. With these principles I thought I would strengthen myself, because leaning on them I seemed to know where I was going and what I wanted to laugh at myself and at others. Putting them into practice, he seemed to have the appearance of a serious, responsible, competent person.”" Incompatible with Extraverted Thinking
like duhhhhh. I know what he said. I asked the question after watching the video😅Saying SEI is compatible with sx9 and so9 does not mean other combinations are completely impossible. And if that is what he meant to say then he wasn't bring clear enough so I was just making sure 💀
Nope, SP 6 is too much of an intuitive type "This type is much more of a dreamer than a doer, substituting reality with fantasy. A certain inefficiency is the other side of their inclination toward their internal life and noble ideals. The inhibition of emotional expression makes them a hypersensitive and fantasizing character, blocking them from action and instinctual spontaneity. For a strategy oriented toward controlling commitment, dreaming of fusion with another is more functional than a tangible relationship, which would bring confrontation." "The conservation E6 is always alert, looking for signs and indicators of hidden meanings (opposite of the E3 who wants to have everything under control). They reflect too much!" "The way of thinking in conservation E6 is always oriented to the past or the future. It is essential to the need for security to predict anything that could happen and to be in a situation to face difficulties, and directly proportional to the distrust in their capacity to do so. Thinking about the past, in itself, is essential to the maintenance of control over possible errors committed through the feeling of guilt, with the goal of corrective action and finding safety. The feeling of guilt is, additionally, a defense mechanism against pain, from which they cannot be abandoned." Too much Ni
Okay, fair enough. However, what is the utility or benefit of socionics over Myers-Briggs or Enneagram? What is it convey that the others don't? More emphasis on functions?
Less vague understanding of elements and also more behavioural traits are visible which makes typing way easier. Instead of 4 basic functions that nobody can agree upon, you have all 8 to deal with, some valued and some unvalued, in general, socionics is better in every way
@@Just_Rusted Thanks, brother. I appreciate the breakdown. That might be a good video. A compare and contrast video of the various typology systems. Their utility, pitfalls and emphasis. Respect. 🤘🏽
It seems to me that the Panjungians won. Now people have Panjungian interpretations of socionics and don't even realize it.
Yeah Rust is no longer reliable source...... that's unfortunate he got Panjungian pilled
It's not really on about Panjungianism, It just the truth of typology
@natsur1361 The truth??? For the love of God Rust types Andrew Tate an LIE So3, why? Because his Panjungian friend Rwvry told him that "So3 can't be SLE... Andrew Tate being Ni creative or anything close to 4D Ne is a terrible take for many resons, main one that Andrew Tate had so little foresight or future orientation that there are literal videos out there of him publicly admitting the crimes he has been accused of due to being just focused on the immediate and present moment, unconcerned with the future just present
... even So3 LSE Andrew Tate would make more sense over LIE, but guess what, his Panjungian friend told him that So3 can't be LSE as well, so no LSE
If Rust cannot see the clear signs of contradictions in his own claims, and just how many times he has contradicted himself, and his lack of consistency, then he most likely doesn't care about the truth but rather the public's opinion on what the truth is
What do I mean by this? Rust's opinion has been consistently the same as general consensus of PDB, as PDB got more restrictive on correlations, so did he, as PDB got more Panjungian, so did he, and it's a clear patten that he cares about what general public considers "the truth" rather than what he himself consider logical, Rust is saying "So3 can't be SLE" but Rust my man you yourself might be one (not claiming that he is, just saying I wouldn't be surprised)
He claims that SEE's are not expressive due to not valuing Fe, but at the same time, claims that Sx1 is LSE only, well guess what Sx1 is a type which willingly enters conflicts, goes with aggression to get what they want, and are constantly trying to assert their will on others, so if it's unvalued Se, then why are they so awfully having so much of it and being in contradiction with what Si creative is all about? Do you see how he contradicts himself, suddenly when it no longer benefits his narrative he'll change it, but when it does, he will follow it, nowadays I bet he'll claim that "unvalued/valued" functions do not matter because it doesn't align with his new narrative, even though in the past it did matter to him
He doesn't have a clearly defined system of beliefs and his personal truths regarding typology, instead relying on others for this (particularly Rwrvy who's openly admitted to being a Panjungian) and he'll change what he believes once they and general consensus change their views
All of this are not his takes, but Rwvry's takes, you literally see Rwvry's signature at the end of the document, and Rwvry is a known Panjungian, with whose takes I heavily disagree for many reasons and twisting Jungian theory as "the same" as Socionics but that's off-topic
@@Eye777-g4ihow much I hate people stating “truth” all the time people who say this usually have NO IDEA is what they’re talking about, face it! Things changes and there’s no objective “truth”
@@rickyinfinite5229end them
ALL CORRELATIONS ARE BASED ON NARANJO ONLY - That is the source i use.
Explaining why SO 3 is not a good fit for SLE - Explaining why Ethical type won't work with SO 3 - Reasoning why E1 only fits LSE - Reasoning why SX4 only fits ESI
𝐈𝐟 𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐞𝐯𝐞 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐨𝐛𝐣𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞, 𝐨𝐫 𝐢𝐬 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐟𝐫𝐚𝐮𝐝 𝐨𝐫 𝐢𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐞 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬, 𝐡𝐞 𝐭𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐦𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐚 𝐠𝐨𝐨𝐝 𝐢𝐦𝐚𝐠𝐞; 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐚𝐧 𝐨𝐩𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐭𝐨 𝐞𝐱𝐚𝐜𝐭 𝐚 𝐜𝐨𝐥𝐝 𝐫𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧𝐠𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐡 𝐢𝐭. 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐩𝐮𝐥𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐢𝐧𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧, 𝐬𝐦𝐞𝐚𝐫 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐥𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐪𝐮𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐥𝐲 𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐬𝐮𝐛𝐭𝐲𝐩𝐞. 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐠𝐢𝐜 𝐥𝐢𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐫𝐞𝐝𝐢𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐬𝐨 𝐰𝐞𝐥𝐥 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐜𝐨𝐜𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐢𝐦𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟 𝐥𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐧𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐥𝐢𝐦𝐢𝐭 𝐛𝐞𝐭𝐰𝐞𝐞𝐧 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐟𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧.
Conclusion: Very future-oriented, manipulates information, confuses reality with his idealized future
𝐖𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐄𝟑 𝐬𝐢𝐦𝐮𝐥𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐞𝐨𝐮𝐬𝐥𝐲 𝐦𝐮𝐥𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐭𝐞𝐝. 𝐈𝐧 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐝𝐚𝐲 𝐥𝐢𝐟𝐞 𝐡𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐜𝐚𝐩𝐚𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐰𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐬, 𝐭𝐚𝐥𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐞, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐬𝐭 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐧 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐞 𝐡𝐞 𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐬 𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐩𝐩𝐥𝐞, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐤𝐬 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐧𝐞𝐱𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐨.
𝐈𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐚𝐝𝐚𝐩𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐞𝐧𝐯𝐢𝐫𝐨𝐧𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭, 𝐡𝐞 𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐬 𝐡𝐨𝐰 𝐭𝐨 𝐛𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐲 𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐮𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧, 𝐡𝐨𝐰 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐬, 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐤, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐡𝐞𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐭𝐨 𝐬𝐡𝐮𝐭 𝐮𝐩 𝐨𝐫 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐤. 𝐅𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐥, 𝐢𝐭 𝐬𝐲𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐬𝐢𝐳𝐞𝐬 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐦𝐨𝐬𝐭 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐯𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐧𝐭, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐩𝐚𝐬𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐨𝐟𝐟 𝐚𝐬 𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐚𝐥 𝐛𝐞𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐢𝐨𝐫 𝐬𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐢𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧 𝐝𝐞𝐭𝐚𝐢𝐥, 𝐚𝐰𝐚𝐲 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐥𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭𝐞𝐬𝐭 𝐬𝐩𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐞𝐢𝐭𝐲.
Conclusion: Not spontanous, not an irrational type
𝐇𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐚𝐟𝐫𝐚𝐢𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐝𝐲𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐩𝐡𝐲𝐬𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥 𝐩𝐚𝐢𝐧. 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐮𝐢𝐬𝐡 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐜𝐞𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐬 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐞𝐱𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐡 𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐜𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞𝐝 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭, 𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐡𝐢𝐦𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐞𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐢𝐬𝐦 𝐨𝐟 𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐚𝐥. 𝐇𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐦𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐬 “𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐚𝐜𝐭, 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐢𝐫𝐬𝐭 𝐩𝐡𝐚𝐬𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐦𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠,” 𝐬𝐚𝐲𝐬 𝐄𝐮𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐨. 𝐇𝐞 𝐚𝐯𝐨𝐢𝐝𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐡 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐦𝐧𝐢𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐟𝐞𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐧𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫 𝐝𝐢𝐞; 𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐡 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐩𝐩𝐞𝐧𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐬.
Conclusion: An odd relationship with Si
𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐭𝐨𝐩𝐢𝐜 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐚 𝐬𝐨𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐄𝟑 𝐰𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐫 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐚𝐥𝐤 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭. 𝐇𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐧𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐢𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐬𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥 𝐜𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐧𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐬𝐬, 𝐢𝐧 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐠𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐬 𝐡𝐢𝐦 𝐭𝐨 𝐰𝐚𝐬𝐡 𝐡𝐢𝐦𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟 𝐬𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐥 𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞𝐬 𝐚 𝐝𝐚𝐲. 𝐇𝐞 𝐰𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐟𝐚𝐫𝐭, 𝐬𝐧𝐨𝐭, 𝐩𝐨𝐨 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐩𝐞𝐞, 𝐚𝐬 𝐢𝐭 𝐬𝐞𝐞𝐦𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐡𝐢𝐦 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐮𝐧𝐩𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐚𝐧𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐞𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐩𝐞𝐨𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐝𝐨 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐰 𝐢𝐧 𝐩𝐮𝐛𝐥𝐢𝐜. 𝐄𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐩𝐩𝐞𝐝 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐚 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐫𝐢𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐬𝐦𝐞𝐥𝐥, 𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬 𝐛𝐚𝐝 𝐛𝐨𝐝𝐲 𝐨𝐝𝐨𝐫𝐬.
Conclusion: More weird relationship with Si
𝐖𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐡𝐞 𝐛𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐫𝐚𝐠𝐞, 𝐡𝐞 𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐥𝐲 𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐚 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐜𝐢𝐬𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐥𝐞𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐥 𝐬𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐩𝐞𝐥. 𝐇𝐞 𝐥𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐬 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐞𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐦 𝐚 𝐦𝐮𝐫𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐬 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐜𝐭 𝐬𝐨 𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭, 𝐢𝐟 𝐡𝐞 𝐥𝐞𝐟𝐭 𝐢𝐭 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐞, 𝐢𝐭 𝐰𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐦 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐨 𝐚 𝐜𝐫𝐢𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐥. “𝐈 𝐟𝐞𝐞𝐥 𝐬𝐨 𝐝𝐚𝐫𝐤 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐈 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐤 𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐤𝐢𝐥𝐥; 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭'𝐬 𝐰𝐡𝐲 𝐈 𝐫𝐞𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐬 𝐦𝐲𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟,” 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐟𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐅𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐬𝐜𝐨.
Conclusion: Said no Se base ever
𝐓𝐢𝐦𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐬𝐨𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐄𝟑 𝐢𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐨 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐨𝐫 𝐰𝐚𝐢𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐞𝐯𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐰𝐚𝐧𝐭. 𝐌𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐧 𝐚 𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐥𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐟𝐮𝐥 𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞. 𝐀𝐧𝐝 𝐢𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐝 𝐛𝐞𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐛𝐞 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐜𝐤, 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐢𝐭 𝐜𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐚 𝐯𝐚𝐜𝐮𝐮𝐦 𝐨𝐫 𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐢𝐭𝐲. 𝐈𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐚 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐩𝐮𝐬𝐡𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐞 (𝐨𝐟 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐬𝐮𝐜𝐜𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐞𝐬), 𝐚 𝐟𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐬𝐢𝐳𝐞𝐝 𝐟𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐞 𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐳𝐞 𝐚𝐭 𝐟𝐮𝐥𝐥 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐞𝐝. 𝐄𝐱𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐰𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐦𝐞𝐚𝐧 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐄𝟑 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐥𝐢𝐟𝐞, 𝐭𝐨 𝐞𝐧𝐣𝐨𝐲 𝐡𝐢𝐦𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟, 𝐛𝐮𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐧𝐞𝐢𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐟𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐨𝐩𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐞𝐧𝐨𝐮𝐠𝐡 𝐭𝐨 𝐥𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐨𝐧.
Conclusion: Dissatisfied with the present, focus on idealized future, unable to relax and enjoy immediate moment
Why Social 3 doesn't work with feeling types
𝐄𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥 𝐜𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐧𝐞𝐬𝐬 𝐨𝐛𝐯𝐢𝐨𝐮𝐬𝐥𝐲 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐨 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐚𝐟𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐥𝐝. 𝐒𝐡𝐞 𝐝𝐨𝐞𝐬𝐧'𝐭 𝐤𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐬𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐞𝐞𝐥𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐡𝐢𝐦, 𝐟𝐞𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐥𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐨𝐛𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐜𝐥𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐠𝐞𝐭 𝐢𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐰𝐚𝐲, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐠𝐮𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐜𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐬𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐬𝐡𝐞 𝐰𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐬𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐨. 𝐒𝐢𝐦𝐢𝐥𝐚𝐫𝐥𝐲, 𝐚𝐥𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐠𝐡 𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐛𝐞 𝐞𝐦𝐩𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐜, 𝐡𝐞 𝐝𝐨𝐞𝐬 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐞 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐜𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫'𝐬 𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬, 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐜𝐡 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐨𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐦𝐚𝐩. 𝐏𝐞𝐨𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐨𝐛𝐣𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐢𝐞𝐝, 𝐚𝐜𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐧𝐨𝐭𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐤𝐞𝐞𝐩𝐬 𝐛𝐞𝐭𝐰𝐞𝐞𝐧 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐜𝐞𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐞 𝐠𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐬. 𝐈𝐭'𝐬 𝐧𝐨 𝐰𝐨𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐢𝐧 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐩𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐟𝐮𝐥 𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐮𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬 𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐩𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐫 𝐮𝐧𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐛𝐞𝐝; 𝐡𝐞 𝐧𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫 𝐥𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐚𝐬𝐤.
Why Enneagram 1 only fits LSE explained here : docs.google.com/document/d/1SK15M5D5Cs_U6fsqoyi2K8ZLjDfKcbabdGwVLWa29tg/edit
Why SX 4 only fits ESI explained here: docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUOZ6oYohlwD32uoATFEwXx8Q1Ha3Osy94Q37gSlnj0/edit
and what type would andrew tate be then? LIE so3 or SLE sp8?
@@sidoso9810 Nah, never E8, LIE SO 3
Really? I don't know how SO3 who is materialistic type that focuses on appearance but can't work with SxE (Se is relatable with action-oriented, appearance, muscular...) Strategic doesn't mean sensing type (isn't E8 strategic but Se-base ES), how come E3 FxVx is a future oriented type? FxVx overcomes her fear and insecurity by gaining confidence through appearences, money, and sex appeal.
Where is the problem with Mulitfaced Se-Base? ES is the type that is most adaptable and also harmony with its reality, Even Naranjo Use ESTP as example of E3
>> E3:
I recognize the ennea-type III pattern in Kernberg’s7 description of hysterical personality. I quote from his description of its manifestation in women: “A dominant characteristic in women with hysterical personality is their emotional lability. They relate easily to others and are capable of warm and sustained emotional involvements-with the important exception of an inhibition in their sexual responsiveness. They are usually dramatic and even histrionic, but their display of affects is controlled and has socially adaptive qualities. The way they dramatize their emotional experiences may give the impression that their emotions are superficial, but exploration reveals otherwise: their emotional experiences are authentic. These women may be emotionally labile, but they are not inconsistent or unpredictable in their emotional reactions. They lose emotional control only selectively, vis-a-vis a few closely related persons concerning whom they have intense conflicts, especially of a sexual and competitive nature.
"He adds that: “even though hysterical women are prone to emotional crisis they have the capacity to ‘snap out’ of such crises and evaluate them realistically afterwards” and that “they may cry easily and tend toward sentimentality and romanticism, but their cognitive capacities are intact.” This is in contradiction with Shapiro’s observation8 of “a cognitive style of hysterical patients characterized by their tendency toward global perception, selective inattention, and impressionistic rather than accurate representations”-all of which, I think, fits the histrionic ennea-type II well.
While men with a hysterical personality may be differentiated from those with histrionic personality also in terms of the more restricted field of lability and impulsiveness (“while maintaining the capacity for differentiated behavior under ordinary social circumstances”), and they are also characterized “by a pseudo hypermasculine quality, a histrionic accentuation of culturally accepted masculine patterns, usually a stress on independence and superiority over women, combined with childlike sulkiness when such aspirations cannot be fulfilled.”9
If you wanna make correlations like this I think you should also mention the sources you use. For example if you use Naranjo, then sexual 5 IEI sounds plausible, but if you use Ichazo, it seems rather fishy at best.
Naranjo is the reason why people keep mistyping IEI as E5. He messed it up by using Chopin as his primary example for sexual 5, but the problem is that Chopin is actually social 4.
Other than that, he typed Sartre (the archetype of social 5) as sexual 4 …💀
If so7 EIE isn't possible, what do you think is the type of that so7 EIE you interviewed?
Hey, I was wondering about IEI, why would SX5 fit with IEI in your opinion ?
I'm asking because I've seen a lot of people that were on Typology, that were saying SX5's description was miswritten and that Naranjo had probably confused it in some paragraphs with SO4 apparently and that so SX5 and IEI was contradicting. Like the most important argument was that IEI was irrational and SX5 was Rational which meant it was contradicting.
What's your opinion ??
sx-5 is called the romantic for a reason. And yes they act like so-4 because they idealize their partner and express their inferiority and envy. IEI does that and they also have Ni. The Ni subtype (IEI-Ni) may behave like sx-5. Just like ILI subtypes.
Why EIE doesn’t fit SP2? SP2 was also described as the type who daydreams and fantasises a lot, not being too grounded
@rwvry So it means if you are prone to fantasy and imagination, it doesn’t make you high Ni and it’s just normal human mechanism? So how would Ni manifest in mental imagination apart from fantasy?
Even from the eyes of the SLE and SEE, they will think they fantasize a lot, even if those "fantasies" are pretty grounded, it's their interpretation. You're gonna have to go deeper than that. Something like fantasizing being an indicator of anything is too vague and superficial, it's something most people will relate too. This is why most "personality tests" suck, they ask this type of question. It's like asking if someone is analytical, again, even from the eyes of the SLE, they are analytical, calculated, methodical
Can you add PY types as well, it helps a lot when typing
Will happpen
Yes!
@@Just_RustedYEYY
I agree with these combinations. I think the reason people think E1 for LSI is because they see that it’s usually an ISTJ in MBTI and assume ‘tight ass’ without further scrutiny. I also find it funny that those Facebook morons type everybody as SP 6 which basically means they’re all getting typed EII. You can always tell where someone’s Ti is based on whether or not they think all combos are possible
Yep, the way i view it, if a person does not see a contradiction between two opposite concepts then you're dealing with someone with disabled levels of Ti
This updated version really helps. I really want to write fictional characters with consistent correlations so they would appear more realistic (I've written a character in the past who was an SEE but sp7, which didn't make any sense since 7s are futuristic while SEEs are not. This was because of that character from Wolf of Wallstreet). Thank you for updating, Rust.
Thanks for the comment, those things always progress and it's only going to get better
@@rwvry Yeah. I still do hope Socionics will eventually be the mainstream and well-understood typology system it should be.
@@Just_Rusted I'll be looking forward for more future vids :)
The updated version is worse than his previous ones, his takes have been continuously getting worse, one day he'll come out as a full-out Panjungian
@@Ashjy-001 The list is more correct, stop circlejerking Ne
I'm surprised about ESE SO9, why is it no longer possible? And why would SEI, one of the laziest sociotypes to exist, be the archetype for the hard-working SO9?
Also, why no IEI SP6? I thought your wife was one
SEI can be "hard-working" (the term used in its conventional meaning) as well. I am so9 (probably) and sei, I don't think I am lazy in the conventional sense (not the most accomplished person but I got perfect gpa through college and working on my master's degree along with an internship and TAship). But work for me is a way to numb my inner feelings so that I can avoid spending the real effort to pull me out of a bad situation (trying to improve after learning about socionics and ennaegram though it is really really hard for me to do so). I work hard mostly to not let other people down, not because I am goal-oriented or achievement-focus. Work, in a way, became a type of comfort for the SO9 or the SEI .
I think he forgot to mention IEI Sp6
About the SO9 is bc SO9 aren't rational, you see every enneagram follows an strick cognition, all E7, E3, E1, E8 and E2 are extraverted while all E6, E5, E4 and E9 are introverted. All E9 are sensory introverted dominant, SEIs aren't lazy.
The thing is, SO9 have no presence or impact in a emotional atmosphere, they rather adapt or keep it on the harmony level, it's a good usage of Fe (3D) not a dominant one.
Rust and Raven only use Aushra as their reference for socionics. If you are using some of the other popular resources for socionics, the ESE is depicted a bit differently, which may lead to different correlation conclusions.
my new favorite yt channel now
Appreciate it man
First time sei ever gets the first😂
@vivekanandapradhan5082 now that's mean 😠😠😠😠😠
Finally they got appreciated
@@yucheung5853You an SEI?
@@Just_Rusted We got 2 seconds 🤣
I have an ENFJ friend who is a social 2, you are spot on there. However, I also have an ENFj sister who is a social 9. I'm an ENTJ SP3, so you go me there.
How is ur ENFJ sister a 9
ENFj 9 is not possible
Could you expand on the IEI and sp6 stance? As an sp6 I've been thinking I'm an IEI, but i was debating EII for a long time too. I'm not as well versed in socionics yet so it's been a complicated journey to come to a conclusion haha
Nothing much to say, people basically argue that SP 6 is much more of a rational type than it is irrational, thus making IEI doubtful candidate.
Opinions.
@@Just_Rusted when you say rational are you referring to being more pragmatic about the way sp6's approach things? I always got stuck on the rational aspect due to the high anxiety of sp6's, but I guess I just needed to look at it from another angle
@@KODYXart More about the concept of rationality versus irrationality within socionics
@@Just_Rusted ohh okay, looks like I have more reading ahead of me 🫡 thank you!
I really appreciate the format of these videos. The way you speak is very formal and professional which is ultimately good for business. Rarely to no swearing. I also like the way you say "we", you present your findings as if by a team or an organisation, which makes the takes more easy to accept.
Appreciate it
1:55
Real life example of IEI sp6: Heinrich Himmler
Why not LII sp5?
What type would you say the Joker is from The Dark Knight
I remember last time you said he was an EIE So7 but now that seems contradictory so has he changed to an ILE or an IEE
He’s nothing other than a 7 btw, every Joker minus Arthur Fleck is a 7 Core
Jack Nicholson’s was an Sp7 (Probably the only LIE Joker I’ve seen)
Cesar Romero’s May have been an Sx7 I’m not sure, maybe So7
Mark Hamil’s was an So7
Pretty much all of the Joker 🃏incarnations have been 7 cores
It’s just like Batman being a 6, he’s pretty much always an LSI 6
@@rwvry nah that’s capping bro, there is no way in absolute hell the Joker from the Dark Knight is an So2
For one I see no 3L or skepticism on the realm of ideas, I see more 2L combined with 1V, he’s always trying to twist ideas and reality and make people go on his side
I also see 3E because he’s very dismissive of dramatic escalations and always remains level headed when shit goes down
When Gambo tries to beat him in the kitchen he calmly threatens him with a shit Ton of grenades
Also I know Mbti is a shitty system but the dude is the definition of an ENTP, and ENTP So2 is the most non existent type behind ENTP Sx8, I don’t see any Ni nor any Fi
He also doesn’t really care what people think of him and when he’s called a freak he just doesn’t give a crap, unless they call him crazy and he tells them straight up “No I’m Not!”
@@rwvry The Joker is Rational yes, so how can he be a 2, Naranjo states that E2 as a whole is Anti Intellectual so how could he be one if he’s rational
I have seen the movie, Thrice, and he is dismissive of Dramatic Reactions, he always remains level headed throughout the movie, he may have dramatically expressed himself in 2 scenes but that’s it, other than that he always talks in a deadpan manner
Sentimental? When has he ever expressed feelings of sadness or tenderness, probably the only scene where he acts out emotionally is when he’s fighting Batman with his Dogs
In the Hospital scene he tries to twist reality when talking to Harvey
“When you and Rachel were being abducted I was sitting in Gordon’s Cage… Now, I didn’t rig those charges”
Also how is he a 3L, when was he afraid of expressing his own ideas in fear of criticism, he seemed very confident in discussing his plans with the criminals in the Kitchen
I agree he’s 1V and 4F but 3L? Nah
@@rwvryok that kinda makes sense, would you see him as a 2w1 or a 2w3
@@rwvry yeah, was gonna ask what about The Riddler from The Batman
On PDB he’s typed as an INTP Sx4w5 which is obviously Contradictory, I do see him as a Sx5 more than an Sx4 cos Sx5s are more passionate and obsessive about individuals, in this instance the Batman, he sees him as a God who has basically inspired the riddler to use fear and violence to get what he wants and he wants to join up with him and be his very best friend and they can destroy Gotham’s corruption together
I also see him as an ILI due to Fe Polr and Fi Mobilising being very frequent, he’s a guy who can’t physically establish relationships himself due to his clear undiagnosed Asd and he never liked playing with peers in the orphanage, when someone came up to him to try and help him he dismissed them because he didn’t know why they were doing that, I really don’t see him as Fe Creative and Fi Demon
Only reason why people say he’s not an Sx5 is because their view of a 5 is what an So7 is lol
@@rwvry not really, if you read the Prequel Book he’s very socially unaware, I even mentioned a girl called Bev tried to be friends with him and he dismissed her due to skepticism on her motives
When he is criticised by Batman does he mentally breakdown which is something that is quite Fe Polr “They dislike sharing their emotions because they fear criticism”
Also he isn’t Fi Demon, he focuses more on his relationship with Batman and when he focuses on his little “4chan crew” he expresses his own Joy rather than the Joy of his crew, and he also talks to them in a deep and profound way, like he’s talking to them as 1 to 1 rather than 1 to 507, he doesn’t act sensitively to the emotions of other people and rather focuses on his own emotions
Also he expresses his own emotions to the “4chan crew” while he’s wearing the mask
He says “My mask allowed me to be myself completely, no shame, no limits” it means he’s afraid of being himself in fear of criticism which is what Batman gives him during the Interrogation scene and it’s why he breaks down completely
An IEI doesn’t really value 1 to 1 stuff and focuses more on larger groups, which is why people like Arthur Fleck don’t really focus on close relationships and more the atmosphere of larger groups but can be Adept to them
Just a thought if a certain socionics type can only be a certain enneagram, and childhood influence is such a big factor on enneagram - does that mean that socionic/jungian psychological type came from childhood experience as well? coz as far as I know, no one has yet a valid explanation about "where types come from."
It is quite possible that your enneagram is also something you're more or less born with, it's predisposed on your temperamental traits and genetics
@@Just_Rustedlol yeah it makes sense it's always both, which might imply the ennaegram only focusing on childhood experience as formation of type might be incomplete. I wonder how genetics/epigenetics interact with early life experiences in the development of type though🤔
What's the argument against Sx4 IEE? I think I know several, some very well. Although I'm always open to being wrong about the enneagram, the hateful, shameless, emotionally expressive Sx4 makes so much more sense to me as Fe demo than Fe ignoring. Let me know.
While I'm at it I don't think any Sx5 explanation I've seen does the IEI Sx5 justice. Surely the IEI of all types does not become a stalker impervious to the gaze of strangers (Fe PolR)? Would like to know more. On the other hand much I see on the So4 seems polluted by IEI experiences, for example the talk of having/maintaining a vision of ideal beaviour/profoundness which automatically excludes all types but the beta NFs.
Love your work, defs what typology needs, keep it up.
The people you type as SX 4 IEE are IEE SX 7, talkative, chatty , expressive, random, exhibitionistic, SX 4 is primarily guided by subjective feelings to the world, those emotions are not flakey or situational like they are in IEE, not only that but SX 4 is also Se valuing type.
docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUOZ6oYohlwD32uoATFEwXx8Q1Ha3Osy94Q37gSlnj0/edit
@@Just_Rusted Thanks, was just reading the doc and I understand your view. Now to reconcile the fact that some of the most melancholic, emotional, sensitive and all in all pitiful people I know are apparently happy go-lucky 7s. Not sure what that means for the explanatory power of the enneagram.
Is there a place where I can find all those wonderful documents you make? No way I'm cracking this code on my own.
These are mine from personal experience and reading the individual types via Ashura & the enneagram books (don’t take this to heart, ppl in this community need to learn to not be so bothered by numbers anyway)
LSE: e1 [so1] sp3 (so3)
IEE: [sx7] so7
SLI: [sp9] [sp5]
EII: [sp6] sp4 so4
SLE: [sp8] so3 so8
EIE: [sx3] so2 sp2 so7
LSI: [Sx6] so6 (sx1)
IEI: [so4] sx5, sp6
ILE: [sp7] so7
ESE: [Sx2] sx3 so2 sp2 (so9)
LII: [so5] so6 sp5
SEI: [sx9] [so9]
LIE: [so3] sp7 so7 sp3
SEE: [sx8] sx2 so8
ILI: E5 [sx5]
ESI: [Sx4] sp4 (sp1)
[] = archetypical
() = on the fence about
Would you make a new Socionics-MBTI correlation? I know that's a shitty system, but I still try to type people and they wanna know their mbti, so do I
Like, the new Batman would be ISTP or ISTJ? They both could be LSI, right?
And If someone know the answer, Andrew tate would be 8? The wold of wall street LIE So3 or ILE 7? Homelander?
New batman is an ISTP.
Andrew Tate would never be E8, he is way too conforming and bases his self worth on certain criterias of what deems one worthy, that is much more fitting of ET, establishing standards that you have to adhere to, LIE SO 3 could be argued.
Homelander SP 2 probably
@@Just_Rusted homelander ESE? Alpha?
just type them based on socionics and package it as mbti ()
@@felipecarvalho6275 Why Alpha quadra or ESE would be contradictory?
@@National-Democrat.Ukrainian Homelander shows that he value Se, but he's not confident enough to use it, ESE has 4D Se and do not value it. Also, Alpha quadra makes no sense since he likes being in an exclusive group, something private that not everyone has access to.
Hi! Thank you for the video!
I found your channel trying to descovery my own socionics type, but I was in doubt between EII and IEI, so I tried solve it using the correlations (in my case is 6 sp/so, with LEFV, 649 tritype and RLOAI big five), meanwhile it made me more confused than before, because each of them can fit in I think, even with the help of the video, I still have questions about diference them
Hello, while both in theory can fit it, your combination is blueprinted EII.
The way i'd difrrentiate both IEI and EII is Se > Si, the IEI values Se so it is a power drawn to power dynamics, the concept of dominance/submission/struggle can seem appealing to them, not only that but as a type, they're more likely to be more explosive, confrontational and combative.
The EII being more stoic and firm in external expression is going to be much more outwardly avoidant and pacifying, they are Se polr, confrontations and even just conflict of any sort freezes them up, something they're deeply uncomfortable with, their reaction is much more avoidant and passive aggressive with more clear orientation towards comfort, familiarity etc.
@@Just_Rusted Thank you so much! I was thinking that I could be IEI because sometimes I have the desire to "live the moment", but I feel like I can't do that without a stimulus ( I don't mean that always when someone stimulus me I'll do something), but is hard do anything in the moment just for do.
Now analysing the Se of EII description a think it can fit well
If EIEs are known as trolls does SO2 not go against that as such a refined type?
The known trolls idea of EIE is not accurate, they're a rational type, Daenerys from GoT basically, the idea of this non sensical provocative EIE random troll is simply due to IEE SX 7 mistypes
@@Just_Rusted Interesting. What about ILEs as the troll mistype? As SO7 and SO2 can be similar.
@rwvry i find it hilarious that all the mbti Ne doms came to socionics, realised they were EIEs only to learn more and realise that they are still in fact Ne doms 😂
@@Just_Rusted You can disagree with certain correlations, but you can't just make things up to support your arguments. EIEs are the troll archetype.
Naranjo on Social 2: "They seek attention directly and confuse being taken into consideration with being loved. They may act in a provocative or unfriendly manner so as not to be ignored. They may act in a provocative or unfriendly manner so as not to be ignored. "
Edited for further elaboration.
I have a second comment in this thread but UA-cam shadowbanned it.
@@rwvry EIE is a Beta Rational type, but to basically illustrate them as Pseudo-LSIs is painting a poor picture. EIEs are Rational, but they are probably most irrational-looking rational type due to 4D Ne + 1D Ti. EIEs are indeed focused on global issues, but they are coming from an Ethical Extroverted point of view. The idea of an ENxP 7 troll in Mainstream Typology is just an EIE So 2. Like my reply to Rust said, So 2 is a provocative, emotional subtype; Which is the archetype for EIE.
EIE So 2s are 1V leaders but their low physics more often than not leads them to incompetency. Rust portrayed it quite accurately: "EIE being controlled is useful and they would make a good spokesperson but EIEs being good at running a huge organization like that is again Fan-Fic coded. The archetypal EIE SO 2 is 1V and 4F, often busy daydreaming and fantasizing with superiority complex while neglecting their environment and failing to maintain the necessities of life that they find boring. [They] can even be a lazy c*nt who is slow to push into action.
The idea of using the Austrian Painter who ran Germany from 1933-1945 as the Archetype for EIE So 2 is very inaccurate and borderline ridiculous. Whether you like him or not (for the Betas in the chat), you can't deny that AH was a very intelligent, calculated, and un-ordinary person with abilities higher than the average human when it comes to the Social Sphere.
EIE So 2s if left unchecked can become man-children. A very, very, very, very unhealthy example of one is Onision.
For Rust (E8)
In my opinion, the central themes of this channel require a self-inspection that the E8 neglects to make. So why would an E8 individual who manifests and develops through his lust find a need to share on this type of knowledge ? Where's the pragmatism in self-discovery ?
More personally, is it my own demonstration of a vulnerable Fi ?
Me : ?LE (Ti) little sociable
E8 struggles with introspection and their own personal blind spots, very true and that applies to me very much so, the journey of self growth or awarness are going to be easier for some types and harder for another but it is not impossible for any type, otherwise what is the point of enneagram?
Can it be vulnerable Fi? Meh, i don't want to say that, i know few Fi polr people who are trying to discover themselves and grow from internal introspection.
@@Just_Rusted Okay, I get it.
One more thing the search for my type is still rough right now. At first it was tireless curiosity only to result in a weakened sense of self critique at the very end.
I concluded that my sense of self was on the surface and perhaps multifaceted in its personality to be directed at no basic type. Not wanting a definitive answer, but rather keeping the field of possibilities open for better adaptation.
E8, E5, E7 and sometimes E3. Here's a summary of each, so as not to expand on this post and why it's so difficult to promote a type for me.
Not E8: too cerebral to conceive her future.
Not E5: too assertive to hold back from potential material opportunities.
Not E7: too meticulous in his perception of implementation.
Not E3: too stingy in demonstrating qualities/resources/status to others.
Why not E7? The type doesn't need to struggle with implementation, the fact you're out here "keeping things opened with possibilities" already seems E7
@@Just_Rusted
"English isn't my language"
You raise an important point! Without going too far, I don't disagree with this idea which has also been built up over a long period of reflection.
However, I could define myself as an E7 with a devaluing conception of the world and conceiving an ascetic approach far removed from any voracity.
My thirst for ideas and the generalization of pleasures is gradually fading, giving way to a collection of constructive experiences waiting to be carried away by its next ecstasy once the moment has been chosen.
Reveling in it with finesse, imagining what it will become until it's over and there's no energy left for it.
About sp6 i can suggest to analyze them: Princess Diana, Timothée Chalamet, Winona Ryder. I personally never tried to type them, but i saw people talking about their enneatypes to be sp6 and all of them already typed as IEI by many🤷♀️
I would think SO 4 for Winona, i will look into Diana she is a famous figure
pretty sure timothee is ILE so7
I know these videos are meant to help you find your enneagram, and that's pretty cool from you to do but honestly I've just confused myself even more.
I'm an SEE and I was sure SP 7w8 was my thing (since through research I discovered other instinctual variants are imposible for Se Dom) but then I was told "Nope, SEE sp 7 is actually so 3" and I was like "alright fine, still fits surprisingly. And now I just came to discover neither 3 or 7 are possible combos 🙃
Happens to the best of us.
First, why do you type as SEE and not as something else?
@@Just_Rusted Two simple reasons:
1.- I took the test Many times and always get SEE
2.- I'm and ESFP at MBTI and just noticed SEE seems to be equivalent in the socionics system, soo I guess it just reinforces the results.
I know way much more about MBTI than Socionics (dude, these topics are a mess of information), and I can tell I definitely use Se>Fi>Te>Ni, that mapping just resonates natural with me.
However I was told that socionics are a better and more accurate system, and I just checked enough to find two different possible types for me: SEE and ESE
I go for SEE since I do value my own freedom. I mean I do love engaging and Interacting with people, but being there 24/7 for others is just exhausting for me, so ESE discarded
1 - Tests are not reliable at all
2 - That is not a good way to look at it mainly because MBTI is garbage, the likelyhood of you being mistyped in MBTI is quite high all considered
The argument against ESE is not solid enough to discard the typing, SEE is a forceful type that primarily focuses on power through personal relations, they tend to be aggressive types with a good understanding of people, their motivations, their own personal likes and dislikes, being the most rebellious sociotype they have no regard for structures and are completely individualistic
ESE is more positive in emotionality, fun loving, expressive light
SEE more aggressive, dominant, more focused on personal understanding of people, carving their path with autonomy and their desires against the world.
@@Just_Rusted I think I just came up with one good approach to this: How did you find yours??
@@Just_Rusted Man if what you say is true then oooooh boy, sites like PDB are INFESTED with mistypes then
So I might be slightly r*tarded. But I’ve finally come to the realization that EII doesn’t fit me at all. And I’m very likely an IEI instead… which explains a lot actually.
Anyways… 2E moment.
Based
Does ILE having low Fi mean that they are unemotional and cold (both inside and outside ) people or that they don't know what their emotions are and struggle with them ? I am saying this because 3E is quite a emotionally turbulent type, which according to Rust every ILE is (either FLEV or VLEF ).
More like the second option yes, they're still Fe 2D they won't be emotionally dead or that introverted.
First of all, this channel it's amazing. I think you are funny and explain very well the topics. I am almost watching all your videos. Since i have started watching about PY, can you make a correlation video between Socionics and PY?
Appreciate for the kind words.
I will be making Socionics PY correlations video down the line for sure, i wasn't that well versed in it so the correlations were not perfect before
What do you think about EIE Sx2?
I don't see it, SX 2 is way too sensorical, grounded for that, i used to contemplate that combination but i don't see how it can work with an intuitive type
I am EIE sx2
Can I see some arguments as to why IEI sp6 is not as likely as a combination? I am curious :) Thank you very much for your attention Rusted
the main argument against it is that SP6 fits rational type in socionics more than irrational, i don't know the extent of the geeky theory.
What do you think Andrew tate's socionic type is now ?
LIE SO3 FLVE
@@sdravolkeniy I can understand 4D Te for him but not 4D Ne. Could you tell me why you typed him as such ?
@@sdravolkeniy Si PoLR 1F?
@@HorusDiSaset Yes
@@Blizarrow I can't explain it - I personally never typed Andrew Tate.
My reply is answering what you asked, which is how Rust types him. This is how rwvry types him too, that's why I said it
Well depends on how you interpret it I do think this list is a bit too rigid though, but yes correlation thing is controversial and subjective in many ways
Here are the “logical” premises you’ve essentially put forth about E8 and SLE/SEE:
E8 SX = “Anti-intellectual”
E8 SO = “Intellectual”
SLE = “Intellectual (3D creative Ti)”
SEE = “Anti-intellectual (1D PoLR Ti)”
According to these premises, therefore it should follow that:
SLE ≠ E8 SX
SLE = E8 SO
SEE ≠ E8 SO
SEE = E8 SX
HOWEVER, in this video you’ve alleged that SEE can be a social subtype of E8. By the very premises you’ve put forth, this doesn’t make any fucking sense. Within your framework, please explain why is it that an SEE can be the only “intellectual” SO subtype but SLE can’t be the “anti-intellectual” SX subtype. Please explain this contradiction.
Perhaps you really are SEE. because the math ain't mathing. lmao
Also, please explain how Fe Demo shows up in the SEE SX8.
First of all, the reason why SLE SX 8 does not work has nothing to do with anti intellectualism, that's just one part you nitpicked in the sea of other information because again, you are simply defending your own self type.
To correct some things, Naranjo defined types in three categories: Emotion, Intellect, Action
He assigned them accordingly:
Intellect - SP 8
Action - SO 8
Emotion - SX 8
So the idea of "intellectual 8" belongs to SP 8 due to their ability to use information to gain advantage and fullfill their desires, they're considered the strategic E8.
SP8 cannot be SEE because it's considered the most cold blooded, inexpressive and impersonal subtype that treats others more like objects than people, it is also able to exist within structures and will often use hierarchies in order to seize power, they're considered the most pragmatic subtype.
SX8 cannot be SLE because it's the most expressive and emotional subtype, they care about flaunting their rebellion in face of others even if is unwise, without any respect for structures and hierarchies they are known to act on pure impulse without considering any consequences to their actions, this subtype is very relational as it seeks to control, dominate relations and posess people.
@@Just_Rusted 1.) You may confuse yourself but you can not confuse me.
3:48 “Some of the portraits of the SX8 portrays a person who is very anti-intellectual, they are not interested in understanding logical structures or structures, at all; they’re very rebellious, they have no structure of their own in the completely free-spirited way they go about doing things.” These are your words, verbatim.
It is false and inaccurate to literally say that SX 8s are anti-intellectual (as a reason why this does not correlate with SLEs) and then say that it has “nothing” to do with why SLEs can’t be SX 8. Clearly, it has SOMETHING to do with it, or else you wouldn’t have offered it as a reason. It was literally one of the first things that came out of your mouth. YOU KEEP CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. Any strong Ti valuer knows that words and definitions are crucial. A central component of Ti, especially strong Ti, is logical consistency in one's argumentation and you are pissing all over that (and looking more and more like an SEE) with weak but overconfident, mobilizing Te). There is no other “sea of information” that I have ignored -one of the central conceits of your premise is that SX 8s are not “thinkers (which, by definition, is aligned with being ‘intellectual’).”
2.) The following quote is taken from the E8 chapter of “27 Personalities: In Search of Being”:
“In relation to the other subtypes, the sexual one is more emotional, while the conservation one is pure action and the social one is the only intellectual eight.”
This completely contradicts what you are now saying. CITE YOUR SPECIFIC SOURCE, or else I’m just convinced that you’re pulling shit from your ass. If you’re going to kneel and pray at Naranjo’s altar, then at the very least, don’t change his words. This is becoming very embarrassing for you.
SX 8 = operates against structures, hierarchies and rules as they don't have any regard for them, act on pure impulse without thinking about any consquences and going after what excites them, focus on relational aspect with degree of posession over people.
SLE = operates in structures, hierarchies, often knows to impose them and work within them, impersonal and lacking relational aspect
That is the core of the contradiction, for the same reasons why SP 8 can only be SLE, an SX 8 can only be an SEE, of course, all of this might be proven wrong when new book comes out or it will simply confirm everything i just said here, we will see.
@@Just_Rusted CORRECTION, dumbass:
SLEs CAN/have the capacity to work well within structures, if they so choose; they can also successfully tear down those very structures and/or work around/against them, if they so choose. Demonstrative Te and creative Ti allows for a lot of flexibility in how things are done/accomplished.
An SLE SX 8 is simply the most antisocial/“psychopathic” form of SLE and would more often than not choose to circumvent or work around structures even though they would possess the mental capacity to work within structures, as well.
Your Ne and Ti are struggling like a MFer. lmao Just because YOU struggle to make sense of basic concepts, doesn’t mean we all share that problem. COPE. 🖤
So no Ennea 3 for SEE anymore?? well that´s a surprise
Yeah, Social 3 is a logical type with much bigger foresight on the future orientation.
@@Just_RustedI think he was talking about sx3
Maybe there's more personalities out there than naranjo observed 😲
Well that sounds chaotic.
1:48 Isn't your wife IEI sp6?
Retyped her SO 4
Isn’t your girlfriend Lilith an IEI sp6?
Retyped her SO 4
Works for me, quite straightforward luckily. Always tested LII/INTP but it's probably actually ILI/INTJ, and have gotten that feedback that more likely I'm ILI w/enneagram 5. Also not so-dom- so yeah, quite an easy correlation.
Yep you had it real easy, it does happen like that for some people, i myself never struggle with the whole enneatype-socio shit, only subtypes were a pain in the ass
Rusted,what would you correlate Schizoid Personality Disorder to? I am schizoid,really closed to the real world things,even at cost of job,school,romantic relationships,etc... I've only 2 close friends that dont even live near me,so we only talk online and i've had (for a miracle) some romantic interactions in my life,this brief story was just to prove that i am a really fucked up guy that has a REAL problem about this,it fucks my life. My friends have many traits in common and i noticed high Ni signs in our conversations and interests. Would you correlate it to some specific Socionics,Enneagram or sum? Thanks.
Enneagram 5 for sure, maybe SP 5 or something along those lines.
wiki.personality-database.com/books/enneagram/page/type-5
@@Just_RustedThank you,brother.
wtf not you turning around on ESE SX2 the whole time 😭😭 i couldn’t figure out my typology for this shit i was like im not SEE but i’m not an sp2
@@rwvry THATS. THATS MEE😭😭 i always related to that last quote so fucking hard. i was jsut so confused for the longest time bc people kept saying ESE doesn’t work with SX2 which i found very weird ??? i couldn’t be SEE, no way, then i was like ok maybe i’m sp2? but it doesn’t fit either and sx2 is just always relatable. and i feel like people think sx2 is always gonna be like maddy perez aggressive and seductive but i’m more like the misa amane type of sx2 lol, obsessive and crazy. do you know misa? do you think she’s ESE sx2?
@@rwvry love quinn be relatable too HAHAH
i’m on the fence with sp2 for misa but i think hachi from nana is a very good example of ESE sp2 one hundred percent. i need to rewatch death note and see, i haven’t watched in a while. thank you for the help btw
@@rwvry from what i remembered she was super obsessive and impulsive. like i said i have to watch it again tho.
@@rwvry i’m coming back here because i believe misa is sx/sp she doesn’t gaf about people liking her, she doesn’t try to act pure or innocent, she only cares about light. sure she’s an entitled brat abut she really doesn’t hide her pride like an sp2 would
I agree with you about EIE(But i'll think about E7). They cannot be 2sx, 2sp or type 3. For example, we always thought Homelander was type 3 social. In fact, he is unhealthy type 2 social. Because his basic feeling is not 'self-deceit', but 'pride'. He sees himself as a blessing sent to all humanity and wants people to respect that. He even goes crazy because people don't see the greatness in him. He also shows E8 behaviors when unhealthy. Literally 2 core.
I think SLE can't be 8sx, too. Because 8sx is all about possession. It'is very related with Se + Fi. All 8sxs I've seen are trying to dominate a specific person, not the group. This is literally Se blocked with Fi. Because the anti-hierarchical and chaotic structure of 8sx literally reflects Ti polr. Also, its overly rebellious nature shows that it overly disrupts the mood of the environment and therefore does not value Fe. And if we consider the opposite of all this, SEE cannot be social 8. Some of unhealty 8sp's or 8so's can bee seen as 8sx and some healthy 8sx can be seen as 8so.
1.) Since when does valuing Fe mean that one doesn’t want to “disrupt the mood of the environment?” First off, what counts as “disruption” is relative and context-dependent. And even if harmony was always Fe’s end goal (which I don’t think it is), it could very well be that some Fe induced environmental disruption could be implemented as a catalyst to ultimately reach some sort of Fe “harmony.” For example, an EIE might want to remove certain undesirable members from the group (in order to create their own version of ‘harmony’ around some ideology) by making the environment uncomfortable via broaching certain hot button topics in a controversial and provocative way or by taking jabs at members of the group they want to get rid of. I’d say that would count as active “mood disruption.”
2.) This is what Naranjo says about the “possession” of the sexual 8:
“The word to define it is possession. And I used to think that this also had to do with
physical possessions, but later I realized that this passion is limited to grabbing the other: the
sexual eight is very possessive in his relationships. This word also has to do with taking
ownership of the entire scene: the sexual eight always wants to be the center.”
Nowhere did he say that “possession” ONLY applied to an individual person; he said that sexual 8s aim to takeover the “entire scene,” or environment and there can be many individuals within that environment. The SX/SP subtype of E8 is more focused on possessing specific individuals and the SX/SO subtype is more concerned with possessing the collective/the entire “scene”-In SLEs, this can manifest via the interactions between mobilizing Fe and base Se.
How would Homelander be So2 if So2 is only 1V and Homelander isn’t. I personally see him as SP2 FEVL
@@rwvry I actually agree that Homelander is more sp2 like emperor Nero.
But so2 aren't literally very self assured in a naturally assertive definition like E8 when comes to psychological... its more an projection that they copes on. In E2 book is explained how so2 even feeling great, its more a fancy projection to hidden his secret fear of being perceived as a fraud. That's why he love to be praised, but at same can feels more distrustful/skeptical about to not looks externally as someone who depends on It - not being a legitimate reference; always wants to makes morally high in the environment being the person that he idealize and the others expected him to be, looking as someone legitimate.
@@rwvry sure, I don't question their social agenda or ambitions, they are focused on that externally to feeds their pride. But internally they have the conflict about legitimate or not. In doing things passionately genuine x for social status and secretly fears to others thinks that she is not legitimate and the savior that she portray to be
8sx puts on a show for the whole scene, but he focuses on the person he should be focusing on. 8sx provokes the person he wants to get. To provoke him, he plays the crowd against him. Playing to the crowd is a very good example. That's something that's related to SEE's 8th Fe. But the main purpose is to get the person he wants to get. But if you look at 8 Social, it's group unity. Friendship, unity of purpose, etc. This does not mean strong Fe, but valued Fe. Also, SLEs do not necessarily maintain the mood of the environment. Since they are Fi polr, they cannot use Fe properly, and they can mess up.
As a result, SEE cannot be 8so. The definitions of SEE and 8so do not match at all. SEE and friendship, or unity of purpose, are opposite concepts. Anyway, it is illogical to talk about things like unity of purpose in gamma quadra.
Also, SLE and 8sx do not match. The whole definition of 8sx is correlated with Ti polr. 8so and 8sp are literally 'Se blocked Ti'. The base function is like dough. Creative function is the second ingredient added to the dough. If you add sugar, you get a dessert; if you add salt, you get something else. When you think of Se and Ti, you get a person who targets society and not the other person.
One last thing, Narajo is not a prophet sent to the world to teach people the truth of this system.
@@obsolete2319
No LII SP5? Due to rational/irrational?
I think Paul Miller aka the Omegle Joker (can't say his username or else UA-cam will censor me) is a good example of SLE Sx 8.
Other than insulting people and provoking them, what makes him SX 8? Considering the core of his mission was based on the social sphere, having suffered at the hand of extremists he himself decided to go full in with it too, he was into politics and journalism way before that happened, he simply became a ridical.
He is what people think SX 8 is by stereotypes but is driven by a social cause and motivation, focused on the big picture hierarchies, social systems and everything that he percieved to be wrong with them
@@Just_Rusted You're assuming that sx/so people cannot be interested in the social sphere or society at all, which is simply untrue. Especially when you further look at what the sx/so instinct actually is.
>sx/so: "This is the type that exudes the most raw charisma and sexual energy. They may identify so strongly with whatever they’re involved with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something while at once embodying it’s purest or most extreme form. Possibly attracted to radical views on politics, philosophy, spirituality or creativity that reflect their penchant for testing boundaries. They enjoy pushing other’s buttons, especially those resistant to their modes of expression. It’s not uncommon for them to have a pet social, political or spiritual cause which they’re able to support with heartfelt conviction. May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it. While prone to exhibitionism, they are strongly attracted to grounding influences which can anchor them and provide stability. Failure to satisfy an especially intense desire for connection may cause this subvariant to spite others at the risk of jeopardizing the need for an equal, stabilizing force. Can feel pulled between wanting a life of maximum intensity and reassuring episodes of peaceful convention.
People think Paul is a Sx 8 because he is very provocative, openly rebellious, and declarative of his differential values.
You have to elaborate what you mean by "intellectual" or by what Naranjo meant. E8 itself is an anti-intellectual type (with Sp 8 being the *most intellectual* subtype of 8.) Does that mean that only SEEs can be E8? Of course not.
"People think Paul is a Sx 8 because he is very provocative, openly rebellious, and declarative of his differential values."
Yeah that's simply not enough, Paul is primarily motivated by attacking social structures due to being discriminated and opressed, pretty much losing his life, even wanted to start some race war. SX 8s don't care about any of that.
Anti intellectual is not even that much of an important argument against SX 8 SLE, what matters is that SX 8 acts completely on it's impulses without regard for conclusions, they go after what excites them in the moment, they're rebellious and are against any structure, they're very chaotic people.
SX 8 doesn't rebel for a cause or purpose, they simply do it, the reason why SLE SX 8 is shady is because it's a Ti ego Te demo and FI polr type, it creates a type that meddles with logical structures, hierarchies and can be imposing with such things, combine all of that with their impersonal attitude to people and relations, it's unlikely for them to be the posessive and relational SX 8.
"He was a man full of vitality, who lived in the present moment without any concern for the ultimate conclusions, without thinking about tomorrow or anything that is not directly related to what drives him crazy."
"In that conversation Rogozhin says: “You say that you love her out of pity. I feel no pity for her. What's more, I hate her.” He tells how Nastasya has confronted him on several occasions with different men and that it has cost him a lot of money, but he still continues with the idea of marrying her. "
"In that conversation Rogozhin says: “You say that you love her out of pity. I feel no pity for her. What's more, I hate her.” He tells how Nastasya has confronted him on several occasions with different men and that it has cost him a lot of money, but he still continues with the idea of marrying her. "
"He acts on pure impulse, he wants to dazzle Nastasya and nothing stops him; only afterward does he think of the possible consequences, and they do not matter to him."
"When he first saw Nastasya, Rogozhin said, “something burned inside me.” The day after his first eye contact with her, his father gives him an order worth ten thousand rubles and he, without thinking twice, spends the money on diamond earrings to give to her as a gift"
@@Just_Rusted >what matters is that SX 8 acts completely on it's impulses without regard for conclusions, they go after what excites them in the moment, they're rebellious and are against any structure, they're very chaotic people.
That is what Se Base 8s are generally like. If you're Se Base and Ni Suggestive, you're going to be an impulsive person that goes after what they want in the moment. If you're a Se Base 8, you are going to be a rebellious, chaotic person. Not all SLEs are SLE-Ti or SLE N/H in Model G who tend to have better Ni. SLEs are NOT Pseudo-LSIs; They are an irrational type. SLEs have Ti and can be structured, yes, but it exists to serve Se. SLEs are not bound by Ti.
Most descriptions of Sexual 8s describe them as people very focused on power dynamics, which in my opinion fits both SEE and SLE.
@@EarthsSecondMoon We all can have opinions, that's the beauty of them.
1:10 why LII self-preservation five is not possible?
Ti base is a close minded, rigid type with their intelect and ideas, SP5 is much more perceptive and doesn't focus on rationalizing/ finding a sacred truth about their ideas, they like to explore it on their minds, LIIs are also very rules oriented and SP5 couldn't not give less shit about being rigid.
Do you knows? I'm disagreed and thank you for your video, rust.
@@rwvry even it's not argument XD but thank you, rwvry anyway.
do you have any other examples of LIE SP7 besides Louis Bloom?
Mrbeast.
Number five of Umbrella academy
Possibly Anthony Stonem from Skins
Tommy Shelby (Peaky Blinders)
Tony Stonem (Skins)
The Master/Missy (Doctor Who)
Littlefinger (Game of Thrones)
Number 5 (Umbrella Academy)
Eric Cartman (South Park, Possibly, he may be So3)
@@Shade571 scar from lion king? He's definitely a FLVE btw
So you say a si polr can be a 1F? Cuz as u said so3 fits LIE and only psychosophy type that fits so3 is FLVE.
How is that possible?
Yep, you're right.
FLVE is often oriented towards materialism, success, prestige, status, posessions, that is something that an LIE can be drawn too in pursuit of ambition.
Here's some controversy for you. I could actually be an LSE not an SEE. ESTPs are generally going to be LSEs, SEEs or SLEs and I know you think LSEs are 1's and sp 3's - and they are but I think SLEs, SEEs and LSEs can be all be 8s. Now 8s don't like rules and I don't like rules, I've certainly broken enough and Sx 8 seems more SEE than SLE to me as I've said but I'm an 8w9 and I like a certain groundedness, getting things done and not a lot of nonsense. I think they're rare but possible.
LSE cannot be E8 because they don't even value Se to begin with, they're Te base, rational type that is methodical, precise and rule bound.
@@Just_Rusted Sure, I figured you'd say something like that but even if It's not valued they're still capable of using Se. Se
is the 8th Demonstrative function for LSE. "A person will often have just as sophisticated an understanding of this function as his or her leading function." Eights with a Nine wing hold more of their energy in reserve so to speak and exhibit more of a grounded, even stubborn quality. This is deffinitely true for me.They are generally less overtly volatile than Eights with a Seven wing but an 8 is an 8 when pushed, trust me. The Groundedness of the 8w9s seems like Se demonstrative to me. Just a thought.
@@mr.j8568
Don't use wings to justify such things, 8w9 is still an animalistic type, it's not some sigma male thomas shelby, LSE is a hard working type that adheres to standards of performance and limits pleasure in sake of such standards because they are rational types.
They have very high Se so they are able to use it but it's not valued, the Se is used for Te purposes, think Gordon Ramsay who pushes people in order to reach the perfect formula that he believes is right and correct.
Lust goes against rationality as it is prone to boredom, focused on intensity, triump, power and dominance, all of the things that make you value Se to a very high degree, it's a type that does not want to be restricted in any way and that involves putting restrictions on itself such as rigurous tendency to adhere to standards and being rule bound (LSE)
@@Just_Rusted I know all that. I've been living with that animal nature all my life. You can be an 8 with a prey drive and still be somewhat disciplined. And Wings Matter. Ramsay is a 1 so I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about those rare LSEs that aren't the stereotype. Let's just agree to disagree on this.
Great video as always.
I have a question regarding SLEs, is it impossible for an SLE to be an sp3? I believe one of my close friends is. He's definitely not an 8, he's more measured and calculating for an 8. He's also achievement oriented and always strives to be seen as competent and such. I believe sp3 fits him best and yet he's too present and in the moment to be an LIE.
What do you think about that?
he could be LSE
@@reyumii6650 thanks for ur reply. I did consider that at first, but he's mostly fe valuing. Another thing as to why he's likely an SLE is his Se awareness, he's super in the moment and literally notices everything that happens around. It's like a super power. I don't know anyone else who's as aware of his surroundings as him..
No, SP 3 is primarily focused on efficiency, pragmatic and performance, that is how they measure themselves by, it's Te base as fuck.
He probably is LSE SP 3.
I also suspect one of my close to be SLE SP3 . SP8 or So8 does not fit him, nor so3 or Sx 8 . He isn't LIE either for sure.
"Another characteristic feature of conservation E3 is to feel that overcoming is a lifestyle. It's not just about doing better, but about being a better person. Adapting to the values expected of him reinforces the idea of being someone adequate and perfect."
"It is a way of keeping vanity at “the right level,” not lowering the bar and doing a little more each time to surpass the previous mark, in front of others and in front of oneself. The conservation E3 is a character that strives to do well and bears similarity to the E1, which is a perfecter from morality, while the E3 is a self-perfecter from doing. From this position, he teaches others how things have to be at peace so that they go well, without error and if possible the first time."
"Linked to perfectionism, order is a value that makes a lot of sense in the life of the conservation E3, who is ordered in the different aspects of his existence, from the material order in the house, to the family, or work."
"Self-demanding has to do with not allowing mistakes and with things not going as planned, something that generates a lot of contained anger, since the great effort that he undertakes many times does not help him at all."
This is not compatible with irrational type like Se base.
What do you think about people denying ILI SX5 (and LFEV as well)? I start seeing more and more of them
Ridiculous, you'd faster remove IEI SX 5 than ILI SX 5 imo.
The reality is that E5 is painfully 3E coded and so is SX 5 so it's a very good for fit for ILI who also is Fi mob.
Can ILE be SX4 or SP3? If not why?
Is NE base means ennea 7 just like ennea 8 means SE base?
Nope.
SP 3 is a hard working, responsible type that is focused on efficiency, pragmatism and performance as their core drive, ILE is not like that
SX 4 is focused on their subjective emotions to a big degree as that is something that defines the type, their likes, dislikes, what they hate and love, combine that with clear valuation of competitiveness against the other and aggression, it is not compatible with ILE as they are Fi polr and don't even value Se
Yes, Ne base to E7 is what Se base is to E8.
@@Just_Rustedthanks for the detailed answer!
Always g
I'm curious. You used to correlate Sli with sx 6 but now instead you correlate it with 5. Any explanation for that?
I don't remember ever associating SLI with SX 6, it's always been Se valuing type only
Why LIEs can't be enneagram 1?
I think many of us thought So7 and EIE was possible because at one point we came from MBTI, and lots of EIEs (mis)type as ENTPs in that system. From there the obvious correlation was E7, and So7 is superficially close enough to So2 to seem like a match. No one would take an ENTP 2 seriously lmao
I think the mistyped "So7 EIE"s might be ILE-Ne's because I recall they have accentuated Fe
Like Jasper said, those EIE SO 7s might just be ILE SO 7s
Thanks for the video. I have a question, I think I am infj, I have researched other types, none of them fit perfectly except infj. But when I look at my enneagram, I am not enneagram 4 at all and enneagram 1 suits me quite well. But LSE is not compatible with infj. How will I know which type I am, I'm very confused.
Maybe eii sp4?
Possibly EII SP6.
@@ronyg.4942 I researched later and now I think I'm sp4, but I still have no idea about socionics
Which enneagram type is oprah winfrey?
Why EIE doesn't work with SO7?
"The emotional brain is almost completely disabled in the Social seven. Rationalisation absorbs the energy produced in the emotional center. The result of this process is a complete loss of the habit of perceiving and discriminating the sensations that make up the various emotions, an ataraxia that plays a leading role in the functioning of the social E7, especially when marking the relationship with oneself and with others. The others from a fair distance."
SO 7 is peak 2L type, not an EIE
"The concept of charlatanism refers to the tendency of the social E7 to manifest its seductive capacity on the intellectual level through a skillful use of verbal intelligence. He can, in fact, present himself as a storyteller, almost a juggler of words, moving nimbly between irony, the use of metaphors, and a taste for handling intellectual concepts."
"There is a strong similarity in this to the false abundance of E2. A magnificent idea of oneself can be expressed in similar behaviors in both enneatypes. Now, the E2 contacts the other with an emotional sensitivity that allows him to grasp his needs in advance and satisfy them, and this is how he earns the qualification of great seducer. The seduction of the social E7 is more oral, above all, mental. He catches more with his words than with his energy."
do you think sli can be sp1?
Nah no way, E1 is purely extraverted rational type in socionics, Te base and LSE to be specific.
@@Just_Rusted thank you, yes i think SLI suit sp5 or sp9 more
Is ESI E9 Sx possible or common or normal or etc..?
Thank you.
No, SX9 is one of the most passive and accomodating types, it is completely in contradiction of Se ego type which is much more assertive, confrontational and even aggressive.
You don’t endorse LIE so7?
I've explained why in one of the comments here, SO7 is not a doer, there is a quote, look through the comment section
why does SO7 not work with LIE?
"The social E7 lives on projects and fantasies about how he can realize his dreams, confusing the imagination with the concrete act of realization, and often remaining in the ideal illusion. It is common for you to start new projects with enthusiasm and then abandon them in the realization phase. This trend is due to two concomitant aspects. On the one hand, the difficulty of overcoming conflicts that would require the use of aggressive aspects, and on the other, that every realization implies frustration, since in the imagination more was expected from that project."
They're not doers.
@@radiatormike makes sense
@@Just_Rusted in that case what would you type jordan peterson? seen a lot of so7 EIE/LIE typings for him
What? Do you really think sx 8s don't exist?
No?
what do you think about eii and enneagram 1, is there no possibility?
There is less than zero, one of the core traits of E1 is literally dominance and enforcement, they're very assertive gutty people who are are corrective, there is just no EII there.
You relating to E1 just means you're SP4, most likely because you are a perfectionist who also can feel bad or guilty if you don't do well or be a good person
Frankly, when I read SP4, I saw something of myself, but the general features of 4 seemed a bit strange to me. I know I'm not as strict as 1, I was in between, but I seem to be closer to sp4 now, but I still need to continue researching. Thanks for your answer.
@@peripsum5239 You should read the SP4 book by naranjo, if you want i can give you the link
@@Just_Rusted that would be great
@@peripsum5239 docs.google.com/document/d/1tY9fPsen3yCdfgZqxtcmhg_8URr-y_4o6qyw-8L-5sM/edit
So to confirm, 5 iei can only be sx, right?
yes
@@wrendz thanks
What about Wanda? She's a clear SP6, and I can see IEI for her?
Head triad? Wanda fits heart triad and So4 so much more? I mean the whole of wandavision was literally just a So4 trying to withdraw from her suffering and her envy is also very apparent through out the mcu. Plus she seems like a very 1E 3V individual which Sp6 is iffy with cause they’re usually 2E 4V.
@@snowmists She barely has any envy, and her in MOM and Wanda Vision is a clear and obvious concept of SP6's warmth, where she desperately tries to cling to family and safe space to avoid her fear.
𝘞𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘦 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘬 𝘰𝘧 "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩" 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘶𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘰𝘧 𝘌6 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘸𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘢 𝘩𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘴𝘦𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘦𝘮𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘴, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘧𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘪𝘦𝘴. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩" 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘤𝘵 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘧𝘦𝘦𝘭𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘥, 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘢𝘧𝘦, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘢 𝘮𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳'𝘴 𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘦.
𝘈𝘭𝘴𝘰 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮" 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘦, 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘻𝘺, 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘴. 𝘴𝘰𝘧𝘢𝘴, 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘤𝘶𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘶𝘨𝘴... 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘣𝘦 "𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦" 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘶𝘨𝘦, 𝘢𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘰𝘣𝘴𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘰𝘬𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘴.
𝘉𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 «𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩» 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘭𝘴𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘯 «𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮» 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘴 (𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘌6 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘥, 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘵𝘰𝘰; 𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘳𝘢𝘱𝘴 𝘶𝘱 𝘢 𝘭𝘰𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘭𝘦𝘦𝘱𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘴𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘢𝘭 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘬𝘦𝘵𝘴). 𝘖𝘳 𝘪𝘯 "𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨" 𝘧𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘰𝘳 𝘥𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘬 (𝘚𝘤𝘩𝘶𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘵, 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦, 𝘥𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘬 𝘢 𝘭𝘰𝘵). 𝘖𝘳 𝘪𝘯 "𝘦𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨" 𝘮𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘤, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘤𝘳𝘢𝘥𝘭𝘦𝘴, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘷𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘴 𝘰𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘯 (𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘢 𝘨𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘩𝘺𝘱𝘯𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘴, 𝘥𝘶𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘰𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘪𝘵𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯). 𝘈𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘰𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘧 𝘌6 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, "𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘵𝘩" 𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘪𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘢 𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘴𝘢𝘧𝘦, 𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘤𝘢𝘭𝘮, 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘢𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦, 𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦.
Source: Naranjo's Cobardes book.
Not to mention her childhood fully matches what forms SP6 neurosis:
𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘶𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘤𝘪𝘳𝘤𝘶𝘮𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘭𝘥𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘳𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘰 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘉𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨. 𝘍𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘣𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘸𝘰 𝘱𝘰𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵: 𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘦𝘳 (𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘦𝘵𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘳𝘺 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘤𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘥) 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘦𝘥 (𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯). 𝘉𝘺 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘰𝘶𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘭𝘪𝘧𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘶𝘢𝘭 𝘧𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘣𝘦 𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘰𝘱𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘣𝘢𝘥𝘭𝘺.
Quote from SP6: 𝘍𝘰𝘳 𝘮𝘦, 𝘧𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘦𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺, 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘸𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘱 𝘢𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘥, 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘱𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘺, 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴, 𝘰𝘧 𝘢𝘣𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘰𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵; 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘯𝘰 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘴𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘦.
Meanwhile Wanda:
“At the age of ten, during all of the ongoing bombings in Sokovia, when her father, Oleg got home, Maximoff chose for her family to watch TV. Suddenly, a mortar shell hit their apartment building.
Trapped inside the crumbling building, Pietro Maximoff moved himself and his sister under the bed, where they witnessed a second shell land three feet in front of them. Maximoff noticed the TV still playing, so she used it to comfort herself. For the next two days, the twins stared at the shell, reading the name Stark Industries on it, fearing it would detonate at any moment, but it did not and they were rescued. Maximoff and Pietro were subsequently admitted into a Sokovian orphanage.”
I made her character breakthrough on PDB several months ago, and after reading Cobrades it only solidified her as SP6.
I am also SO4 and while I relate to her on some levels, there is no way we share the same neurosis - her approach and coping mechanisms are way different.
@@Deadpan_Snarker
I disagree tbh she has plenty of envy throughout the MCU otherwise MoM would’ve never happened & neither would have WandaVision. I see a six fix for her but her envy and her search for authenticity is much more stronger imo than her “warmth”.
“Fours see the world from a garret window as outsiders and are not comforted: everyone else seems to be living a happier, more normal life.” Literally the whole plot of Wandas arc. There’s also this post I saw explaining how the trait structure of Social 4 fits her to a T which I also agree:
Imaginative and Creative
The emotional, sensitive, and introspective aspect allows you to more easily access your creative and imaginative side. From an early age, he likes to console himself and entertain himself in fantastic and dreamlike worlds in which his imagination allows him to compensate for the great inhibition he feels in real life. This imaginary world that he has created and in which he somehow believes will be able to materialize in the future, serves him to metabolize everyday reality. Poetry, art, and music become channels of expression to the outside.
(literally WandaVision lol)
“By the end of the episode, you realize it was all a bad dream. None of it was real.”
“So, what I see here is a baby witch, obsessed with sitcoms and years of therapy ahead of her.”
“I don’t know how I did it, I only remember feeling completely alone. Empty. Just endless nothingness”
Sensible
Low self-esteem and the need to defend yourself from others lead you to reject criticism or behaviors that challenge you. Their gaze perpetually directed to the outside world and the continuous comparison he makes with himself lead him to give a subjective reading and interpretation of what happens; the slightest criticism annihilates him, he feels that he has given a lot, more than the others, he finds himself again without recognition. In addition, since it is difficult for him to express his opinion directly for fear of being hurt or conflicted, he expects the same from others (understanding, empathy).
“You break the rules and you become a hero. I do it and I become the enemy. That doesn’t seem fair”
"Do You Know How It Felt? It Felt Like That”
“He deserves a funeral at least. I deserve it.”
“You have no idea how reasonable I have been.”
Romantic
For this character, life is hard, difficult and sad, but it is characterized by a romantic feeling inside. Thanks to his romanticism, the world becomes lighter and more bearable, it is as if he added a note or a touch of color to so much pain. The romantic vision that he harbors within him is expressed in the world through poetry, music, and the search for positive living situations and opportunities. It is as if he did not resign himself to the harsh reality through his romantic aspect. It is as if through romance he sweetened a bitter pill. Passive-aggressive and Self-destructive.
“It’s been fun playing pretend for a while, hasn’t it, Wanda? But it’s time to look at some real reruns.”
“I tried to be gentle, to nudge you awake from this ridiculous fantasy, but you would rather fall apart than face your truth.”
Insecure
He has the constant doubt that his actions or words can lead to difficult or irremediable situations, and that they can lead him to disappoint the other and be abandoned by him; this, of course, makes him very insecure.
“But you’re so crippled by your own self-doubt that you believed it.”
Reserved
He is extremely private, and only talks about himself and his intimate experience with very few people, as he does not trust others to understand him. Since childhood he has experienced not being understood, not being seen, having the feeling that no one is aware of his needs, and therefore, as an adult, he has no faith that there is someone who can understand him deeply.
Pessimistic and Distrustful
Perceives the world as dangerous and unpredictable, so tends to always see the negative side of things and situations. Through his pessimism he believes he can anticipate and control the pain he will feel when something bad happens, because he is sure it will! He has no confidence in the course of events or even in himself, this becomes functional to remain passive and withdrawn.
“It’s…It’s just like this wave washing over me, again and again. It knocks me down, and when I try to stand up, it just comes for me again. And I…It’s just gonna drown me.”
Sadness and Suffering
He is sad and suffers from a young age, even before he is aware of it; when he becomes an adult he continues to drag this suffering, since he remains attached to that need to receive that has never been satisfied. His attention does not shift, he does not find compensation in life because it is as if he is still waiting for that love. There is a part of him that is obstinate in not wanting to give her up and that is why he does not learn to give himself the love that he did not receive in childhood. Thus, love becomes something sublime, inaccessible, almost impossible to
@@snowmistsI am well aware of all the trait structures of So4 and I still don't see it for her at all. She doesn't match neither core trait structure of E4, nor So4, not to mention her childhood goes completely against So4s.
I typed her based on Cobrades and I stick with it.
@@rwvryHow?
Why is SEE SP2 not possible?
SP2 is more of the "princess" archetype, they're more sweet seeming and not as aggressive in their desires as you'd expect from Se base.
SEE = SX 2
@@Just_Rusted I think they can be aggressive in their desires as well when they demand privilege. Privilege (the neurotic need) itself is a place of power and so suits an Se agenda. Gaining privilege through seduction corresponds to Creative Fi and Demonstrative Fe serving Se Base (since Base is Demanding and Creative and Demonstrative are Supplying).
Some quotes from the SP2 book fit this version of the SP2: “Paranoia explores in an obsessive and emotionally blind way when the conservation E2 projects on the other the manipulative dynamics that he himself practices when he wants to please or conquer the powerful place of privilege. When he feels that someone does not support him unconditionally, or has to confront someone he considers superior for some characteristic, he immediately feels him as a rival, an enemy that can take away his place. There he deploys his aggressive and controlling weapons with the crazy idea of having the right to attack whoever threatens him, even fantasizing plots.”
“If someone disappoints him or feels him in competition, he is very skilled at humiliating and attacking them to the point of making them a harmless rival. This manifests itself especially in couple or sibling relationships, as if he feels entitled to make the other pay the price for being submissive to his orders or whims. But also if he feels offended, criticized, or abandoned, taking away the other's power is a way of taking revenge and thus re-establishing his pre-eminence.”
A fictional example of an SEE SP2 is Erin Brockovich from the movie IMO.
@@Just_RustedAbby Lee Miller (Dance Moms) is another clear SEE, and SP2, as that type fits her best. The fixation of false abundance and passion of pride is present. She is not an E8, lust and rebellion is not present, plus she is image triad. She is not an SX4, she is not core E4 (her competitiveness is the competition of pride not envy), and if you thought she were an SX4 you’d be accepting SX4 SEE as well. When her ego is attacked (SP2s are hypersensitive to criticism according to trait structure), she resorts to showing what she has done and accomplished, typical of SP2s being like “look at all I have done for you, you must treat me as special (aka do not criticize me).” This is also shown when she responds to parents’ criticism by threatening to remove their children from the program - it is a way of reminding them of her perceived status and power. This is her showing the privilege she believes she has “earned” through her accomplishments (“you must rely me on for your child’s success because I’m so great”), believing herself to be free from all criticism due to this, hence SP2’s diva-like behaviour, expecting preferential treatment when they do not deserve it (but believing they do). The emphasis on what she has *done* when it comes to her pride is indicative of the SP instinct, as it is the instinct of *doing* and *action.* So, pride related to her actions. The above behaviour, while being of the SP2, also overlaps with Se Base, as again, Se is related to power and status and the neurotic need for privilege *is* a neurotic need for a place of power. She fits the core of SP2 (essential), without some of the accidental traits of SP2, such as the “childlike seduction” and needing to be cared for. Those traits are more present in the ESE variant of SP2. It could be that ESE SP2s are more common, hence the SP2 chapter leaning towards that kind of SP2, since it comes from interviews with the type. Abby is also clearly an SEE, Se Base is apparent, she does not value Si, in fact it is suppressed as the Ignoring function. She does not strive to create a harmonious environment, she is like a go-getter, always wanting to achieve more and accomplish things and push forward. This is in line with Valued+Bold+Stubborn Se and Te. She also plays favourites at times, indicating valued Fi(+Se). Fe Demonstrative is always on in the background, being expressive, but not expressing positive emotionality like the ESE, instead expressing more “negative” emotionality as the Fe is in service of Se (Demo serves Creative which serves Base). Her Fe shows when her privilege (Se) is challenged, and is not used for its own sake. This is more like SEE, as the ESE uses Fe for its own sake (valued), and uses Se to aid in creating a harmonious environment which is used to bring everyone together. This is not like Abby, she is an Se Base whose Fe shows to help Se, she is not an Fe Base whose Se shows to help Fe.
question what are your socio/enneagram?
SLE 8
Rusted, I think I'm sexual 9. Do you have any resources that aren't complete shit that I could look into?
Sexual 9 because gay?
@@Sol_Invictus77food for thought
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/866584527593930773/1049426767129092226/E9_Book_-_Psychospiritual_laziness_-_Claudio_Naranjo.pdf
Let’s see here. Just starting the video, will you tell me my socionics type? I’m for sure enneagram 9w8 Sp,Sx tritype 946
SLI
@@Just_Rusted in socionics I’ve been typed SEI and IEI. In other typing systems that aren’t socionics I am INFP. Some people argue I am 6w7 Sp,Sx946.
SEI won't be SP 6 because the enneagram type relies too much on intuition, progression of time, past and future and deeper meanings, only EII and IEI
IEI is either SO 4, SP 6 i suppose
SEI SX 9 and SO 9
@@Just_Rusted Jack typed me SEI but then Jason typed me IEI. Neither one make sense and when I dig into socionics, EII and IEE fit. I digress on for sure being 9w8, lol. I’m convinced of everything multiple times a day but not much sticks.
@@Nyalloyd EII and IEE are very different, why do you have trouble finding your type between those two?
What would an ENFJ 3w4 be? in mbti she is obviously si-blind.
Mistyped SO 2
@@Just_Rusted really?? That's so weird for her though. She disintegrates to 9 all vegged out lol. She does not disintegrate to 8. Idk man typology seems pretty limiting (I'm not iee lol) but I do love the work you're doing, it's grounding, buuuuuut she's a 3 man. She just is. Deceit and preparation. When she was a kid she was like a goofy 6. I kinda believe in the fallen child Enneagram theory. Like as a 4, I do distinctly remember my fall from a 1 to a 4. Maybe as an 8 you remember an early time where you were a 2 until some drastic change. You realized you wouldn't be able to survive as a 2 in your environment
@@Just_Rusted she doesn't have pride at all (unfortunately) but imma read the naranjo social 2 description right now! She always feels below tryna get back to where everyone else is. Hard time connecting with people, despite being ENFJ (I'd say it's bc a mixture btwn her Ni and lack of Si/6-ness). Idk why it's hard to imagine an ENFJ 3 but just in case I'm being dumb imma read the naranjo thing
Edit: she's not as strong as a 2. She said she almost sometimes even feels like a sx9 cuz of how mellow/fluid she can be. As a 3 and 4 we take joy in hating on 2s together. They seem like the strange confident image type while we are like dying inside with no self esteem lol.
I understand, seems like it's something you're set on her not having any pride, i said SO 2 out of a superficial assumption that is actually correctly typed ENFJ.
If you are certain of E3, look into SX 3, what you are describing sounds more like it, here, let me know what you think
wiki.personality-database.com/books/enneagram/page/sexual-3-in-detail
@@Just_Rusted ah the mother thing hits. Our ESTJ mom sucks and my sister definitely has mommy issues. The kind of men she can't get over often have similar critical characteristics as my mom (who is a 1, ugh). It's pretty creepy haha how our partners often parallel something about childhood (I got the daddy issues lol, hence my attraction to unavailable ISTPs). But yeah she was always tryna please her and was obsessed with her image, her attractiveness. I even thought she could be 3w4 so/sx. Social first cuz she has this need to be attractive not only in the physical sense but in an overall sense. The audience is not just her object of affection but bc her Fe, it's like all of society, like she doesn't even want to live in our hometown just in case she sees someone from back then and she isn't prepared, doesn't have a good image atm.
But maybe that's only so cuz she had Fe-user boyfriends. So maybe she is sx-dom. But I think so/sx is my main guess. I just don't know how that fits with your socionics-enneagram system. Is she an ESE or EIE? She has good Se but gets stuck in the Ni-planning mode more than Se-ing. She doesn't have Si AT ALL. She can barely comprehend Si
What’s the most incel enneatype?
you
Sexual 5
Every type can be an incel, but I would say they are almost always a sexual enneatype, most likely sx5 (specifically LEVF sx5) and maybe sx6.
Glad to see sx4 didn’t make the list
What's wrong with IEI SP4?
In a nutshell, SP 4 is a stoic and inexpressive type that does not externalize it's suffering, it's not compatible with Fe ego beta type
SEE Sexual 8 here, This Update seems spot on. SLE Sexual 8....show me a real one and maybe I'll believe.
How are you different from an SLE SP 8 in your opinion? From your POV what do you think makes it difficult for SLE and SX 8 to co exist?
@@Just_Rusted SLE SP 8 to me is going to be more managerial, less 'gut instinct' or emotionally driven the way SX 8's can be. SX 8's are individualists, more Gamma Quadra stuff, more one on one. "I'm coming for YOU, you personally. ME and YOU." SLE 8's are group thinkers, top-down managers, authoritarians. Trump is an SLE, Churchill, Patton, MacArthur were SLE's. Seems to me like there's a cult of personality to SLE's, A LOT of propaganda. SX 8's might see that as a waste of time. SP 8's are focused on THEMSELVES, SX 8's are focused on OTHERS, MUCH more outwardly volatile and intense but not necessarily as bossy - SX 8's: "I WANT THAT." SP 8's: "You do this for me."
Great explanation man, thanks
@@Just_Rusted Btw I think Trump is an SO 3 but I'll entertain him being an SO 8.
@@mr.j8568 I don't think he is SO 8, he is egoistical businessman conning mfs left and right for his own satisfaction, he'd be SP 8
why can't SEI be sp9
SP 9 is Fe polr type, not connected to feeling
"The conservation E9 does not tolerate, in the long run, the intensity of emotions. Feeling too much is dangerous; there is the fear of losing control, fear of something that he does not know about himself, and that produces anxiety. He fears what he might discover and show if he follows the intensity and goes deeper. "
@@yuuga109 3E + Fe creative is directly contradictory.
There is no such thing as 3E Fe ego type
@@Just_Rusted Not tolerating “the intensity of emotions” ≠ not connected to feeling. Naranjo says that “feeling TOO much is dangerous”; there is a difference between expressing milder, surface level feelings and deeper, more intensive ones. SEIs have creative Fe (cautiously utilized, context-dependent) and strive to keep the emotional environment light and comfortable-they don’t typically have or showcase the same emotional intensity and dominance that Fe bases possess, for example; their emotional display is more muted. SEIs (and their Si dominance) and E9s are ever seeking to establish internal homeostasis with the external environment, in effect blending into and melding with the environment, thereby creating a “golden mean” as regards to their “presence” and “affect.” I think it’s totally reasonable and feasible that an SEI SP 9 would not want to disrupt the environment with bold, “intense” emotional displays. They are more apt to emotionally numb themselves in order to blend in and create "harmony."
I think that the following quote from Naranjo describes the general vibe of SEI > SLI rather well:
“So these conservationists are very loving people but deep down they don't have a sense of
being loved. His resignation is the most prominent. And there is in them a kind of joy, a kind of
tenderness that, however, is far from the full experience of love.”
@@yuuga109 I can't say anythning about the correlation to psychosophy but I do think that SEI sp9s exist--in Socionics, they usually belong to the SEI-Si subtype (accentuated Ti and Te, thereby creating an ISTX 'aura'), which I do believe manifests as a result of some degree of autism or autistic-like phenotype. I'm SLE-Se (accentuated Fe and Fi, and manifest an ESFX 'tilt') and I attract and get along best with that breed of SEI (mirage relations in ITR, which tend to be favorable).
How will you type Ivar the boneless?
Also Albus Dumbledore ? I thought he was THE EIE SO7 😭
Could argue for SEE SX 8 if you tried
@@rwvry IEI albus ? So which enneatype ?
Hello, i want to know about SLI with SO 1.
Not possible.
SLI is the most 9 core coded type, easy going, adaptable, focused on comfort.
Sorry bro, I get confused reading many open tabs haha.
I mean LSE with 1 SO
@@leathfnx8095 Archetypal
Sorry about this. But what does that mean? Maybe you have a video about it. Difference between affinity and arquetipycal
@@leathfnx8095 It means that it's expected typing
What type fits SX8?
SEE
@@Just_RustedAfter this understanding , what do you think about Connor McGregor full Typology?
SEE Or SLE?.
SEE SX 8.
The guys Fe is incredibly intense, he is chaotic af, gamma values can be easily justified and he is way to good with how he deals with people and gets in their heads.
@@Just_Rusted Can SEE be 4E in psychosophy?
E1 book not release yet?
Nope, will get released next month i think unless they fuck it up once again like those cunts do
these days i was thinking to ask you about eie so7 (because i read what kiwisito said and he made a great point and well i trust you and him) then i forgot but now i got my answer! great video, i do agree with evertything lmao, thanks for keeping us updated with these!
Kiwisito, i saw his PY list and there are some things i disagree with strongly but in general he has refreshing takes. Thanks for the kind words.
Imo SO9 is veryyyyyy ESE :/ I can understand your others takes but idk
LIE SO7 ? SO7 is only ILE ?
"The social E7 lives on projects and fantasies about how he can realize his dreams, confusing the imagination with the concrete act of realization, and often remaining in the ideal illusion. It is common for you to start new projects with enthusiasm and then abandon them in the realization phase. This trend is due to two concomitant aspects. On the one hand, the difficulty of overcoming conflicts that would require the use of aggressive aspects, and on the other, that every realization implies frustration, since in the imagination more was expected from that project."
Like rwvry said in another thread, SO 9 has too little presence, they shrink in enviroment and go with the external.
Rust and Raven only use Aushra as their reference for socionics. If you are using some of the other popular resources for socionics, the ESE is depicted a bit differently, which may lead to different correlation conclusions.
New Updates. Good.
ESE so9, LIE so7, LIE sx6, EIE so7
LIE SX 6, i'm dead
"“Thought is disconnected from reality, and fantasy is no longer just something possible but a confirmed reality (obviously verified only at the level of your thought). The state of confusion between reality and thoughts is such that he believes in them as if they were “facts,” concrete data, and proven truths. The perception of being attacked becomes a reality from which it is necessary to defend oneself. The counterphobic, then, is always on the alert.”
"“I had deeply rooted ideas, with convictions that prevented me from seeing the nuances and that kept me rigid, unable to reach an understanding, without any possibility of changing concepts. They reinforced my idea of always being right, of loyalty to the given word and of honesty in intentions. With these principles I thought I would strengthen myself, because leaning on them I seemed to know where I was going and what I wanted to laugh at myself and at others. Putting them into practice, he seemed to have the appearance of a serious, responsible, competent person.”"
Incompatible with Extraverted Thinking
@@Just_Rusted LIE Sx6 is completely Out of Sense.
@@Just_Rusted i got u, what do u think abt other typings?
Py + Ennea video??
Will happen
Finally some good fucking food…I’ll be referencing this when I do type combinations in the future. Good shit, Rust.
Can certainly make things easier.
Appreciate it.
I am here for the violence!
Can sei be 6?
"SEI is compatible with SX9 and SO9"
>can SEI be a 6?
like duhhhhh. I know what he said. I asked the question after watching the video😅Saying SEI is compatible with sx9 and so9 does not mean other combinations are completely impossible. And if that is what he meant to say then he wasn't bring clear enough so I was just making sure 💀
@@yucheung5853He actually tried to encapsulate all of the combinations, so according to him sei 6 is a no no.
Nope, SP 6 is too much of an intuitive type
"This type is much more of a dreamer than a doer, substituting reality with fantasy. A certain inefficiency is the other side of their inclination toward their internal life and noble ideals.
The inhibition of emotional expression makes them a hypersensitive and fantasizing character, blocking them from action and instinctual spontaneity.
For a strategy oriented toward controlling commitment, dreaming of fusion with another is more functional than a tangible relationship, which would bring confrontation."
"The conservation E6 is always alert, looking for signs and indicators of hidden meanings (opposite of the E3 who wants to have everything under control). They reflect too much!"
"The way of thinking in conservation E6 is always oriented to the past or the future. It is essential to the need for security to predict anything that could happen and to be in a situation to face difficulties, and directly proportional to the distrust in their capacity to do so.
Thinking about the past, in itself, is essential to the maintenance of control over possible errors committed through the feeling of guilt, with the goal of corrective action and finding safety. The feeling of guilt is, additionally, a defense mechanism against pain, from which they cannot be abandoned."
Too much Ni
@@Just_Rusted I see. Thanks!
nice!
COOL
based
Yeah this shit makes zero sense to me. Socionics.
ESFP 8w7 sx/so (tritype 864) socionics (AbCdEfGh)
You're SEE
Okay, fair enough. However, what is the utility or benefit of socionics over Myers-Briggs or Enneagram? What is it convey that the others don't? More emphasis on functions?
Less vague understanding of elements and also more behavioural traits are visible which makes typing way easier.
Instead of 4 basic functions that nobody can agree upon, you have all 8 to deal with, some valued and some unvalued, in general, socionics is better in every way
@@Just_Rusted Thanks, brother. I appreciate the breakdown.
That might be a good video. A compare and contrast video of the various typology systems. Their utility, pitfalls and emphasis.
Respect. 🤘🏽
Lastly, if I understand correctly:
ESFP 8w7 sx/so 864 SEE all "make sense" in conjunction with each other?