I would have the cast spell on its own button - Holding it down would bring up a selection wheel, whichever you hover over is cast when you release the button. Or simply pressing the spell button casts the last spell used. Moment to moment gameplay is sped up but still gives players options in each situation. Excited to see where this game goes!
Yeah exactly, I was about to recommend that too :). The Selection wheel is a really great choice. You can take ideas and inspirations for that from games like Ori and the Will of the Wisps, etc...
Bonus points if the game slows down (fancy) or stops completely during the selection so there isn't that awkward feeling of getting hit while choosing, an in options you could still let people have separate keys for all 4 spells if they prefer that
Yeah this sounds good. Maybe there could be a limited number of spells in the selection wheel, like 3 spells, and you will have to choose which 3 spells to equip ahead of time. Like at the checkpoints.
It would be cool if the spells had mechanical uses to! Maybe the fire sword can light braziers, and the lightning spell can charge batteries. The game is looking good, man! I get more excited every devlog!
Spell idea: every time the player gains access to new spell, their mana bar gains another “charge” (it doesn’t actually have to get bigger). So if the player cast their spell with one charge, it will cast the weaker spell, and if they cast with two charges, it will use the newer, more powerful, spell.
I see a lot of suggestions for a spell wheel, which was my initial thought. Here's an alternative, which is simpler to use and a middle ground between "pick a spell ahead of time" and "all spells get cast at once". What if the player picks a spell ahead of time, and then each weapon has a spell associated with it? So for example, the greatsword has the fire enchantment as its spell and the player picks the lightning spell. Pressing the spell button would cast both simultaneously. This allows for players to have build expression by allowing them to choose a spell and pick a weapon with an expanded moveset from what is currently present in the game. It also plays into the theme of strategically cycling through weapons, since players will prioritize weapons which have a spell that is especially useful for a given fight. This would also be a huge asset in level design, as you would be able to give the players spells that are more or less useful depending on what you want, but without making the player feel as if they're not in control (since they get to manually choose one of their two spells).
So excited to see where this game goes!! I'm following it's development through every step and supporting it because it really has potential! Also, I like the idea of holding down the button longer to change the spell, but you would have to be able to, in the inventory or something, equip each spell in each slot. For instance if you equip fire, and you want to be able to cast it more easily than lightning, or you use it more in general, then put it in the "1" slot and put lightning in the "2" slot. Then, fire will activate when you press the button for only a short time and lightning will require a hold.
A few ideas... 1. Spell changes based on what you're wearing. i.e. red robe, fire spell, blue robe lighting. 2. a wearable item like an amulet that you can switch that is the spell focus and the color of the gem determines the spell you can use. 3. wild magic - make an indicator on a mana ring that moves around the perimeter automatically, and in a somewhat unpredictable way, when you push the trigger button it fires a spell associated with the area of the ring that the indicator is on. To add to this, you could make the areas where a certain spell can be cast change in size based on the environment, for example, standing near water makes the water spell area larger, holding a torch or standing near one makes the fire area larger. This would be really chaotic and would require concentration to time your spells right, but hey, shouldn't spells require concentration?
something like Overheat might be a better spell name, since if new players used it and assumed that it was a fireball, not having a fireball would be pretty disappointing imo
Rename it canned heat, replace the energy bar with an empty can that fills with heat and when it’s full your guy not only casts the fire spell but does a little napoleon dynamite-esque dance move.
I have an idea for spells that would add some of tactics to the game. Spells can be like cards and the player's role is to put them in order they would like to use them. Spells can regenerate by time flow or by visiting a shrine.
Maybe when you hold the attack button to use a spell, the available spells show up as a ring around the player and you need to push towards the spell you want to cast and it casts the spell when you release the button, so players can think about what to use while evading the attacks
Idea for your game: add a parry window for attacks. In a game called ULTRAKILL, most bosses will have a yellow flash before some of their attacks or combos. Hitting them during that period with a melee attack will interrupted the attack, heal the player, and deal some extra damage to the target. You are also able to parry projectiles to deflect them and heal you. I think you should do something similar to this where if you time a sword hit or a weaker melee attack that is binded to a separate button so the player can’t spam an attack right before an enemy attacks, it will give you more mana than usual and deal more damage. You might also need an indicator before the enemy attacks so the player knows when to time the hit.
I think it would be cool if a spell worked differently according to your weapon. Example : When u cast the fire spell on the sword you gain the fire aspect, but if u cast with the boomerang, it would make that whenever you throw the boomerang it leaves a fire trail.
Love the changes and cant wait to try them out in game when they release! On the spell part, think one spell at a time would be the best approach to it because it adds variety to the game and make every single play through a bit diffrent
A few thoughts: - Separate button for spell casting. Press to cast. Hold to select spell. - Items and/or weapons could modify the way the spell works. Spear makes a long line of the spell. Dagger does lots of small projectiles. Wearable items could do things like change the damage or charge time. - Healing with an imbued weapon could do something extra. Progress looks great so far.
I’d get if some didn’t agree, but I feel like it would be really cool the saturation should change sometimes. Like, some parts of the game look so warm and vibrant, like a professional photograph. Sometimes, it could be tone down, and more simple, less overwhelming.
IDEA: The player can choose the ability to use according to the direction he is trying to go while charging. For example, we have four spell slots, and as we progress in the game, we add or remove the spells we want to these four slots. In this way, it becomes a challenge which spells we want to take when we go on a journey, different spells can be used without the need for an extra button, and we are not limited to only one spell.
I personally like the idea of only being able to choose one spell at a time. Restrictions force players to be more intentional with their decisions, which is something I personally enjoy. It would also be cool if some of the spells were defence or utility focused (ex: ice gives you additional, nonstackable armor; wind increases movement speed or decreases dodge cooldown; earth causes more currency to drop for a specific time window). Lastly, have you considered variable charge rates for magic? For example, if you want to help players that are struggling, have the first hit after taking damage give more charge or if you want to reward skilled players, have each hit give more charge, resetting when the player takes damage. Awesome work! I'm really excited for the full release!
I also think that you could maybe have spells that take less energy, and are less powerful perhaps. This would ease the balancing process probably, having a bunch of spells that all cost the same amount of energy (the maximum) would be pretty hard to balance I think. It also makes gameplay more interesting, players could strategise what spells to use in a single battle, do they spend it all on one giant spell, or do they use it on multiple smaller ones for e.g. a horde of enemies.
I love game/mechanic design so I'd love to give my 2 cents here. I think holding down the button to use different spells is a really interesting option. Although not in the sense of bringing up a selection wheel, but instead having each new spell added to a slider bar. Holding down the button would move the slider further up the bar.(most likely pausing for a moment at each spell). When you aren't holding the button however, the slider drops back to the bottom of the bar. When you release the held button or hit the "cast" button, the closest spell you are above (which you would probably want to highlight while its sliding in order to reduce confusion) is cast. The pros of this system would be: - access to multiple spells - being able to choose the spell to cast - relatively little HUD intrusion (especially if you combine it with the already existing mana bar) - it is a fairly creative system(i am an unbiased source obviously), i personally haven't seen anything like it in any other game at least - by being able to place a spell higher on the bar you can can use it as another way to balance a spells overall power (which can lead to more spells, increased spell diversity, and more interesting combinations of spells.) The cons of this system would be: - however little, it would still add to the screen (putting this as a con since you mentioned preferring simplicity - being a new system, it could have a steeper learning curve than would be desired (yall feel free to add more pros and cons in the replies) BONUS: If the slider pauses at a spell, then having too many spells could be detrimental to casting speed, making it a self balancing system.
Currently playing the demo. Omg, even as a demo this game is great, great combat mechanics that make for interesting combat scenarios this is beautiful, the artwork, the sound design, this is crazy this game deserves the best for it
TLRR: Crackhead spitballing a spells idea + i like the dpad / num keys idea too Lets you choose spells to have available and select which one to use on the fly. this encourages trying different ones often rather than setting one spell and never changing. it would also prevent the monotonous task of interacting with menus every time you want to cast a different spell. ----- NOW if you want a crack head idea, ive got you covered. Assigm each spell to an area of the following 4 axis chart (or a variation of it): Air | Ice ------ Fire | ??? When the player moves, the last few inputs are read and assigned a spot on the graph. They then cast the spell. For example, if they want to cast fire, they walk right for a moment and cast. Freeze or slow an enemy? Walk left the cast. Water spell? stay still for a moment and cast. (maybe a water spell conjures a ripple wave sending pushing enemies away) Lightning? Walk up and right for a moment and cast. Hot water wave, dealing scalding damage and pushing enemies? Slight right movements. Cold wave pushing and slowing enemies? Straight up air could enchant a weapon to have the flying wooshing blades for a moment You get the idea.
Personally, I think destroying your weapon should fill your energy meter fully, and have the healing require energy instead, like in hollow knight. A full heal being separate from your energy bar gives the player an innate buff, which makes the game much easier imo. Forcing the player to choose how to use their energy could not only increase the depths of the combat, but also make the game a tad more challenging, as the player is very OP at the moment. This is just my opinion, and the game’s progress is going amazingly. Keep up the good work!!
I think a directional pad system focuses more on player control. Holding down the button seems difficult for player to control. And there is a compounding issue if you want to add more spells. Since you mention Hallowknight, I think button combinations is a really haptic solution. Spells seem to represent knowledge or remembering spells and complex button inputs can symbolically represent that.
As feedoback for the magic system: I very much enjoy the idea of how long you hold determines what spell you unleash. I think some good UI so that the player can assign short/medium/long hold time spells could be good. It allows the player to tailor their spells to their play style, but requires a bit more work design side. You'll need multiple levels of spells for each element. So a short hold fire spell can be something like a "firebolt" in D&D, where a long hold time is more like a "Fireball". This way the player can decide that they like to have a short cast time ice spell to slow enemies to give then the breathing room to cast their high level fire spell, or vice versa. Mix in different base level magics and you have a lot of option output with little input.
When your meter is full, you can open a spell book, which has X spells you equipped/learned. This can operate like emotes, where you slow down time and pick from the spell wheel. You could unlock new spells from item pick-ups, defeating bosses, and/or leveling up. In your inventory is when you can "prepare" your spells, by choosing what's on your spell wheel.
Here’s an idea for the spells, have it be similar to Hollow Knight, where you have a limited amount of “slots” that you could put a variety of different spells in, each with their own amount of slots needed for that spell. You could have it increase every time you get another cloak (or something similar), not changing the effects, just adding the limit of slots you have.
Might be interesting to take a page from Celeste’s book and represent mana/charge as a change on the player sprite and have it be more frequent but less potent casts. Would keep players’ eyes on the action and away from the hud a bit more. Bit more immersive I think
I might have an idea for the spell thing: You could do it so the casting action is done by holding the attack button but the spell that came out relied on context. For instance: casting while standing still could be how you cast the lightning bolt, casting while moving could cast something else, casting while dodging another spell, etc.
@@Challacade Glad to help! I'm running on a similar problem on a game of my own, but I don't think this solution applies to my case, because in my case most abilities should be able to be performed often and regardless of player movement, but since all the spells you've shown are non-frequent one-time action, I believe it might work well for your game. What I'm trying to get at is that yeah, I know the struggle :p
Something like this could work. And it would be even more seamlined. You would have to make it more clear at the same time or it could cause confusion or frustration to the player. “I was standing still” kinda thing. But i think your on the right track
An idea I saw from another game was using the mana bar, but based on how much mana you have you cast a certain spell. A weaker attack when you have less mana but it also uses less mana and a strong attack when you have a lot but it uses the entire bar. Anyway the game is looking great. I played the demo and it was really fun. Love to see what is coming next!
Maybe spells could function like a deck of cards? Newly acquired spells are added to the deck and each time a spell is cast a new one is drawn at random. The player could re-roll their active spell by holding the attack button before the mana bar is fully charged, which would cost some but not all of their mana. This way, the player is encouraged to use whatever is available to them, which may lead to some creative decision making. However they also have the option to choose a different spell if they really want to. Whatever you decide, am sure you’ll make it work. The game is looking great so far, keep up the good work!
In regards to key bindings, I like the focus on keeping it easy to use on the fly. Depending on the direction you want to go, my idea is this; 1. Allow users to map inputs 2. Set input combinations like (L + A , B , X , Y )... 3. Allow users to learn skills / discover them through input combinations 4. Allow custom builds that incentivize "Synergies" , "Archetypes", "Desired Playstyles" , or even "Narrative Roles". 5. ??? 6. Profit I think it would be really fun and innovative for a game to offer this option. It doesn't have to be followed like other games either, it can be a nice change of pace for beginner and veteran players.
I'm thinking maybe you could dim the energy bar while it's charging, and then un-dim it when it's full and maybe blink it twice, or some extra visual indications of when it is indeed full. Hollow knight also does the dimming part, when you don't have enough energy to do anything it turns darker.
Maybe you could solve the spell issue by "linking" spells to different weapon types. You could make it so you learn a spell for each weapon type (for example: heavy, medium, light or slashing, thrusting, ranged). Then the player could maybe change which spell fits each weapon type in a menu or smth. Idk if the spells should be attached to the energy bar or breaking the weapon, but i think ull know better. Game is looking awsome so i hope u continue going at it as strongly as you are. Keep up the good work! Sorry if my english has some errors, im spanish
An idea for the spell system, when you use a skill, the game goes in slow motion for a few seconds and opens a menu with all the skills avaliable to use, then you select it and the time starts running normally again
Here's some feedback that fits the minimalist approach to your game: Have the bar be the spell indicator itself. For example, instead of being a grey bar, make it red with a fire symbol. Then have a button cycle between spells. I tap the button to change it to a different spell. The bar becomes yellow with a lightning bolt now. Simple and doesn't require selection wheels or anything. The player doesnt have to pick ahead of time and can freely swap spells on the fly!
For the spell selection, you could make a spell wheel. When holding down a certain key it brings up a wheel with all the spells you have unlocked, clicking with the mouse or pressing a direction key with WASD would select the different spells on the spell wheel.
The first thought that came to mind was to have certain enemies be more or less weak to certain types of spells. Puts a little more thought into what spell you're using, but I'm eager to see what unique ideas you come up with
Just came back after completing the demo. What an amazing game! :D Haven't enjoyed playing anything in a long time. The boss fights were fun and very well designed, especially the final one. Can't wait to try the finished game!
A spell band would be cool. What's a spell band you ask? Simply put it's like an arm band, except you can have a system that you decide how many spells can be equipped. Which leaves it open to you to make better and better bands. Say a early game band has 1-2 spell slots, mid game 2-3 , late game 3-5. Just a secondary thought, If you are going to limit spells then (as a aspiring indie dev myself) you'll have to make them special and unique where the player kinda struggles to pick the best combination, maybe a water and ice spell has some hidden interaction > water spell soaks the enemies for 10s, then an ice spell used while soaked freezes them for x duration.
Tying all spells to one mana bar can sometimes encourage players to use the same spell that is the best over and over. I think the best way to fix that would be to give the player the option to choose a few spells, and then have each spell have it's own mana bar. This way players would be encouraged to use thier weaker spells without missing out on the more powerfull ones. More powerfull spells could require twice as many hits or 2 weapon sacrifices compared to weaker ones and spells could interact with eachother in interesting ways. This does have the problem of cluttering up the UI but it could work. Love the dev logs keep up the good work! : )
I have been toying with an idea for spell selection and I think it could work here. You have a spell button that once clicked opens 3 options, each one with a pre assigned button. In a game pad you could imagine you press A to change to spell mode, causing the B, X and Y to be pre determined spells. Clicking A or using a spell would revert to combat mode. If the game has more than 3 spells, clicking A could rotate to the next 3 spells or you could let those 3 slots be customisable in a inventory
A couple thoughts: 1. The spells you can cast are dependent on what weapon you are currently holding. You don’t have to add any extra buttons beyond “cast spell”, and it makes each weapon feel more unique. 2. If hitting things = more charge, then having more minions during boss battles will encourage your player to bounce between dealing with minions to charge your spells and using said spells on the boss.
I like the idea of casting one spell or another depending on the length of the press. To me sounds kind of like the reload system of gears of war. You could even add a similar fail scenario were you spoil the cast and loose the bar, it could add a risk to a high reward that it's the spell. It would need a nice and clear UI, though, but I can imagine some options. Amazing work so far!
D-pad/number keys to toggle through spells, spell button casts the currently selected spell. It adds another HUD item but if you're only having a few spells in the game, a select wheel is a lot. However if you're having more than 2 or 3 spells, I think the selection wheel is the way to go. Your game looks amazing as ever, can't wait for it.
It would be cool to see spells added to existing mechanics too. E.g. Double tap “roll” = some kind of offensive roll attack (think like the homing attack in Sonic) Healing with a full magic bar = add some kind of explosive/knockback effect to creatures near you
You can make it so when you hold the attack button a wheel of spells will appear and the player could choose a spell by releasing the attack button while having the mouse on the right spell. This way you won't need to to new key bindings and the player will still have the element of strategy of choosing the right spell. Plus it's expandable, you can just add more spell to the wheel. Hope you'll like this idea and good luck😊
Spell Casting Idea: I think you should give them 2 available spell slots that you can equip an unlocked spell, which can be activated with the keybinds Z and X, the spells could have a cooldown displayed with two individual bars that fill up over a set time and once full allows you to use the move again, but also you could have an extended length to the bar that if you wait to fill up makes your spell a bit more powerful when released giving players an option between casting immediately or trying to stall so they can deal a bit more damage. Hope this helps
Build a stack of spells that you want to cast. Combos, order, repetition all have an effect. Something like Transistor, but realtime. The setup using controller is a bit tricky, but it is in itself a mechanic especially when you are surrounded and must act fast. It’s literally a spell you perform and then cast.
I feel than when you destroy a weapon you heal when not at full health and get full mana when at full health this will reward players or speedruners for not taking damage hence be able to cast more spells
It would be a lot of work but maybe each weapon type could interact with the spells in a different way like the spear could react to lighting with bolts “randomly” falling from the sky and a great sword would send an electricity wave forward
I think having the energy bar give you one spell point every time it gets full then having like a set of spells equipped where you have to like pick only three spells out of a collection you find along the was would be cool and also making some enemies and bosses immune to a specific spell would also add up to the preplanning of a fight. Also having a kind of a mixing system where if you collect an amount of spell points you can cast two spells at once resulting in a new ability that can only be activated when chanting a number of spells together mid fight which will add more to the strategy of filling up the spell bar so you can make stronger but more expensive and complicated spells, it kinda reminds me of special moves in fighting games. So yeah here is my idea ik it needs alot if work and balancing to do specially making the "spell tree" showing you sll the different types of spells you can mix but if you managed to make ut work it would be such a great and new concept
something you could do is make it so you can equip spells and when your Mana reaches a certain point you can perform the spell that is reached. This introduces a tactical element where the player needs to carefully consider to what part of the Mana bar your spells get equipped to. You could enhance this by making the Mana upgradeable so that the player can equip more spells. It also fixes the keybinding issue
A thing that might work for different spells to equip them: you hold the mousewheel and get a little pop-up-menu like, for example, in overwatch with the communication menu or in aragami its with different abilities aswell - in aragami its on a different button but i think it might be very usefull on the middle mousebutton (and that it eventually "pauses" the game for a second in the background while you are chosing the spell you want)
I like the idea with the game slowing down while choosing the spells - If the wheel comes up, have an 'animated' slowdown of time and release of it. Would be fitting for a more fast paced game like that one. ^^
Things I would love to see to improve the combat 1- adding a speed upgrade to run faster 2- adding more classes of weapons 3- when you fight there's a delay between the attacks and it's kind of long which makes the combat not fluid 4-well this is not related to combat but some animations are so well made and others not and lacks details like the mana bar and the sword swings Other than that the game is great and really in love with , I was following the process since the first shorts you made on tiktok and youtube and didn't expected it to reach this point ❤
I would make multiple versions of each spell, where you would have a forward version, a backwards version, a side version, and a neutral version. You could then equip a different spell to each "slot" and use that spell by holding the attack button plus a directional input. Each version could have a different style, for instance the forwards version could be a powerful directional attack, backwards could be defensive, etc.
Spells can be tied to actions or weapons and you can give the player the option to choose whether to use an offensive or defensive spell. Example: when the mana bar reaches 100 percent, the next successful attack will trigger an AOE spell cast, but if the player chooses to dodge roll with said full mana bar, a temporary damage shield will form around the player to mitigate damage for "x amount of damage or time". This could even open up other possibilities such as incorporating another resource bar into the game for the sole purpose of auto spells (and call it energy as opposed to mana, maybe?). This way, there's no actual resource management for the second resource bar and it won't require any extra key bindings - while still adding variety and choice of auto spells. (And still having a manual spell to fire off at will, when the mana bar is full.)
First of all, what amazing project is yours! Congrats! My opinion: hit for get energy is better than destroy weapons. Instead of use all energy for a spell/hability, you can specify a number, that will give you the possibility to chain skills. You can add a hotkey for change spells adding slots for them. I can imagine how fun can be go around the world for amplify my maximum life or energy bar and learn new skills. I see your game will shine, specially in combat, I would suggest show the number of damage( maybe that's not necessary but considering the possibilities you would like to open in combat, is some how a way people improve their combat as they please). I'm watching your progress dude, will be a pleasure to buy and play your game!
Making you wait for one spell longer then for the other would make the player assume its more powerful. I think that having a spell selection which you could navigate would give the most freedom. Also, it'd be cool if there were mage/wizard weapons, which greatly enhance the power of spells, but do less damage by themselves. Or maybe if you break them, you release multiple spells/stronger spells, but dont heal/heal less.
Add a rare spell which you can only get in abandoned churches called "life after death" making you able to spawn certain enemies under your level and some bosses Passive:corpse disintigration-will add a corpse to your corpse bar (the corpse bar can only hold 10 corpses or more when upgraded and will let you view the stats of the corpse if you were to summon it Spell:Life After Death-will let you summon a corpse from the bar every 30 seconds and the body will decay if inused
For the magic you could do a 3 input combo while holding attack for example: hold a + up down left for lightning. Since it takes longer you could make it stronger idk
I've got 18251025 ideas... how about spells can have different levels (maybe you can find them, or level them up, or they are even bound to a weapon or weapon type. The mana charge bar is great, depending on how full it is (or you can just charge it multiple times), you activate either lvl 1, lvl 2 or lvl 3 of your spell. the longer you charge, the better the spells level is. if you allow the player to mix and match with a fun ui, you could e.g. use a lighting lvl 1 for the first full charge, a fire lvl 2 for the second charge and another lighting lvl 3 for the trird charge. New weapons always charge the first bar and heal, like they already do in your example. that way you could allow for either different spells you can find, maybe some only have lvl2 and lvl3, some only lvl 1 (so they can be only slotted to those levels), or some weapontypes always give a lvl 2 lighting, maybe it's a skill you can upgrade for your character, or on the weapon, or a potion that temporarly boosts you to go below charge lvl 1, 2, 3 for a certain amount of time. on the other hand, having dedicated buttons for skills is always great, as it gives a lot of control and allows for the use of several skills at once if needed. another idea would be to add spells to certain movements. a spell that always casts when you dodge, when you destroy a weapon, when you move a direction. you could even go the helldivers 2 route and introduce spellcasting dances that need you to press a spellcasting button, slow down time and you get one chance to correctly type the right arrows to cast a spell. that way you could have as many as you want parallel. anyway, love what you're doing, still think the hud with these bubbles and numbers are way worse than actual heartcontainers and shields, and really looking forward to the next update.
I know I'm late, but what if the spells cycled, and you could pick the order in which the spells are cast? This could create cool combos like a vortex spell that pulls enemies into one spot, and then some high damage, low AOE spell to do a bunch of damage to one spot with a bunch of enemies.
For different spells: Hold down the button and make the player decide the spell like Helldivers lets you choose what you want to do. So for example for fire: Hold + WWAS (up-up-left-down) For thunder: Hold + WDSSA (up-right-down-down-left) Or just a menu, idk
You mentioned planning which spell to bring as a possibly cool thing. I think a big improvement in that direction is to plan the *order* spells get cast, and then each cast cycles through the list. This allows casting multiple spells and strategizing how you'll cast your spells beforehand, without adding any complexity (visual or control) during the fights themselves. A strategy might be something like "AoE spell followed by random-target spell so you're more likely to hit the big baddie", you get the gist I hope
So excited about the progress of the game! Maybe for choosing your spell you can equip some sort of talisman that you can quickly change by iterating over a list of equiped spells? Maybe using the keys like in elden ring? In this way the player can quickly decide the spell to use while having visual feedback of the equiped talisman at the bottom of the screen. Keep it up! 🎉🎉🎉
This game looks amazing, it's like the kind of game I'd always dream of making. Maybe the spells should do a ranged magical attack + add the element to your weapon both at once. And a dedicated spell button would be better. A hold attack to do a slightly stronger attack (or even a ranged attack?) would make the combat options more interesting.
maybe it would be a good idea to make a wheel like shape appear around the player when he presses a key, and the direction which he walks would determine the spell that he would use (like, player presses key, walks north and stop pressing key, the spell to the north was selected that way), 4 at least. This may limit the number of spells that the mc can do, but then again, it would make the game a little more strategic for players that like it. Also, having a place where you can organize yourself and decide the 4 spells that you would like to take with you on the adventure would be a great idea or even idk, a hub before boss battles like in Ultrakill with the difference that you can only choose the spells that you're using in the battle Idk, just thrown some ideas that I had a while ago, hope you like 'em :))
Les go new vid on one of my most anticipated projects. Btw I have an idea for you related to the spells. What if you keep 2 different kind of manas for 2 different kind of spells that can be equipped at a time. One charged when doing damage, another charges when taking damage (just and example). Idk if that would rly be good, but yeah just spoke my mind. Thanks for awesome content again! and gl with the development.
It would be fun if when the bar is fully charged you have a new bar on the botton of the screen and you have to press the attack button when the bar shows the spell you want, is like a fun and challenging mechanic
What if throwing was how you changed spells? The throw button also causes the character to do a little arcane hand waving. It requires both hands so he has to drop the weapon to swap. If he has no current weapon he can rapid fire swap freely. Throwing the weapon does not break it, but they have to retrieve it. (can add a jewel to have the weapon auto return at the end of a spell swap) Makes weapons like the boomerang fun as you are able to swap spells before it returns.Could even have spell swamping charge a bit of energy. Fun boomerang mini game of pressing your luck seeing how much you can swap before it returns to you and you miss catching it?
I always liked that shovel knight had different options for choosing a spell/utility slot. You could either use a button to cycle through them, or open a unique pause menu to access the options. At first, I always paused the game, to swap out because I needed the time to think and choose, but once I got the hang of it I started using cycling and key binds. Whatever you choose, maybe consider giving players the option to slow down or go fast.
I've got an idea: You have to quickly choose which special attack you want to use. Example: You hold, then a menu shows up, you hold your joystick down for Option 1, up for Option 2, left-up for Option 3, etc. Then release the input and wherever your 'cursor' is left, that option gets picked. Edit: kind of how most games do quick-chat or emoting
idk how good of an idea it is, but i think it'd be cool to be able to imbue spells onto weapons, so the spell you can use is fully dependent on the weapon you're using, and you can talk to like an npc or something to swap the imbued spell for another one you've unlocked. it would be hard to balance this when you heal with the weapon, since it'd get boring having to imbue every weapon you find, but it's still something to consider just and idea though, games looking great!
you could tackle this problem by doing it the way hollow knight does, holding different keys for different spells like down + spell for descending dark, etc.
Switching between magic casts - each spell has a minimum mana requirement, and when you have that mana it becomes available. You can choose to either spend less mana on the lower spells, or wait to cast the most expensive one on the bar. When getting enough mana for the higher tier spells, you also wont be able to cast the lower one, so you dont go supernova when you spend the max mana, and you also get the extra level of strategy and choice.
I like the idea of selecting a spell while charging the cast. It's simple yet effective. Having your movement locked down while still being able to cancel out creates a solid risk vs reward decision. The only part I don't like is that it makes it awkward to aim the spells if you're already holding a button and using the direction controls to select. Especially more complicated spells that need to be placed in a specific location rather than a simple direction. You could always make it so that instead of a ring it's a simple L1/R1 cycle through a list but I find tapping a direction on a ring much more intuitive and cool. You could always try the held time determines the cast method, but add the additional axis of switching disciplines of magic while casting. To use the boring fireball example you have a generic 'concussive ball' spell. From there you can use a focus object or switch pages in your spell book to swap it from concussive to fire, lightning, corrosive, large (bigger radius, lower damage), focused (smaller radius, higher damage), etc. All the disciplines have the same base spells on the same cooldown until they get to the longest cast which performs that disciplines ultimate spell. Personally I find all that a little dull. It's much less demanding on the implementation side though. What I think would be more on brand is if the spell choice was based on what you're currently holding and instead of the classic elemental scissors-paper-rock component it was more interaction/manipulation focused. A spear style weapon leaves a light spear in it's wake like an arrow that pins pierced enemies in place for a second. Casting with a hammer style weapon does a circle shockwave knockback/interrupt. The synergy between how the weapon fights and the spells it casts takes a fair bit of work on the design side but in this case I think the payoff would be worth it because the game already feels ripe for cool rare interactions. There might be a rare item that that's terrible as a weapon, but if you cast using it time freezes, you drop the weapon, and you get 10 seconds to go nuts. If you aren't holding the weapon at the end of those 10 seconds you take massive whiplash damage as you're dragged back to the point in time where you began casting from. Obviously that specific example is a massive leap under the hood from simply throwing red, blue and green orbs but starting simple down this route means you can eventually get to places like that which give your game those signature moments in players minds. To me stuff like barriers, summons, self-clones, mind control and polymorph are infinitely more interesting than standard double damage to weak enemies. I don't hate that style of magic, and as a gamedev I get that if casting isn't a massive focus of the game it's about as deep as anyone should justify going, but I also don't find remembering a list of Pokémon weaknesses to be particularly engaging. It's tactical in the sense that you have to make a choice but because there is a correct choice it's effectively automatic. It becomes about getting punished when you make a mistake and continuing along the baseline is your reward for playing well. You get these cool looking special moves but the catch is you only get to use them when the game demands you do. It's almost better to skip the type effectiveness and make them nothing more than pretty looking special attacks like Final Fantasy Limit Breaks. All that said you can still have fire and ice themes to the spells. It doesn't have to be all weird 'swap the enemy's feet and hands' spells. Just have the interaction be that a guy on fire frantically tries to put himself out while spreading the flames if he comes into contact with flammable/explosive objects. A very quick cast lightning spell might be the game's core interrupt ability. Very little damage but the target stops what they're casting and may even drop what they're holding. Being frozen in a persistent snowstorm might simply prevent them from using more advanced attacks or throw their aim off. It doesn't have to do anything majorly complicated because walking on ice and while trying to aim through a blizzard is hard enough already. They don't have to be weak to these thing in the mathematical sense because in the practical sense if you hit a group of people with a massive blast of wind they get knocked around the arena, potentially slamming hazards into them or vice versa. That's what being mathematically weak to something is meant to represent and this game feels like the perfect choice to strip that away in favour of literal representation. It fractures out into all sorts of wild interactions. If there's a 3x3 tile wall spell linked to a weapon and you happen to have one when you begin a encounter you can place it over the point where the adds spawn to stop them. Each spawn attempt cracking the spell a little would make it a very generic interaction you can use in the encounter rather than a special interaction tailored to the encounter. You may instead choose to limit the boss's mobility by placing it in their way, or even create a safe space where you can let the wall soak a special attack while you recover. Granted that may overpower the rest of the combat mechanics and make magic too big a focus. You could make magic items rare versions of regular items but what's the point if you're not using them often? It would be special but it wouldn't just take away time you could use to work on other stuff it would also force the other combat aspects to fall in line with that playstyle. In that sense you almost want to limit magic to context sensitive finishing moves. Stuff you can use to regain health or pop an enemy to damage enemies around them. Alternatively you could go the Jedi route. Less spells and more directly intentional environmental manipulation. If you're in a dark shadow basic flash that stuns enemies that can see you based on the difference between how much shadow you're in and the strength of the flash. If you're near an cast interactable object like a stalagmite patch in a cave you can long cast on them to build barriers. It lets you inject fun in when you feel the dungeon lagging by saying 'here's another three forest grunts, you've fought them before, but this time they're near a waterfall so you can do something cool'. At the same time you can't use them every fight so you can't make every fight feel like 'walk in, cast slow, cast mana drain, cast fire stage 2, win'.
Spell idea if you've not figured out how to handle it yet - Have different spells of different strengths (or different strengthed versions of each spell), have the player assign which spells they want active, one per spell strength slot, and then during combat when they cast have them deplete their entire bar and cast whatever the most powerful spell they have active is. Kind of like how IIRC Monster Rancher handled its combat system back in the day (just with doing regular attacks charging the meter rather than time), making the fundamental choice being 'weaker spells more often or more powerful spells less frequently'.
Haven't read the comments so maybe someone has the same idea: You can equip the spells and depending on how many you have, your energy/mana will charge faster. All spells you have equipped will activate when you use it.
I honestly think you should not be afraid to add more key bindings for such a major mechanic in the game. More functions per key dont make a system more simple only less controlable, a simple button could cicle throug the spells and that already would be easy to grasp.
Love the videos!! 💖 If you aren’t interested in adding new tools to fiddle with like a spell wheel, maybe consider cycling through spells when you cast them? That way you only have one spell and one input to strategize around, but can cycle through to a different spell if you need it?
I would say have the spells be on a rotation, and unlocking a new spell just puts it in that rotation. So you would have to plan accordingly based on what spell will be cast next, and it also makes it so the player has to use all spells, instead of just the strongest one.
I think having the number keys switching the spells is a good idea, and maybe like a ui icon that reminds which spell you're using (heart for health, flame for fire, and lightning bolt for lightning)
I would have the cast spell on its own button - Holding it down would bring up a selection wheel, whichever you hover over is cast when you release the button. Or simply pressing the spell button casts the last spell used.
Moment to moment gameplay is sped up but still gives players options in each situation.
Excited to see where this game goes!
Yeah exactly, I was about to recommend that too :). The Selection wheel is a really great choice. You can take ideas and inspirations for that from games like Ori and the Will of the Wisps, etc...
Yep, I know the dev wants to keep it simple by having one offensive button, but a dedicated button is actually simpler in this case.
Bonus points if the game slows down (fancy) or stops completely during the selection so there isn't that awkward feeling of getting hit while choosing, an in options you could still let people have separate keys for all 4 spells if they prefer that
Yeah this sounds good. Maybe there could be a limited number of spells in the selection wheel, like 3 spells, and you will have to choose which 3 spells to equip ahead of time. Like at the checkpoints.
Sort of like Totk's ability selection wheel.
It would be cool if the spells had mechanical uses to! Maybe the fire sword can light braziers, and the lightning spell can charge batteries.
The game is looking good, man! I get more excited every devlog!
Spell idea: every time the player gains access to new spell, their mana bar gains another “charge” (it doesn’t actually have to get bigger). So if the player cast their spell with one charge, it will cast the weaker spell, and if they cast with two charges, it will use the newer, more powerful, spell.
Nice idea ❤❤
This reminds of fighting games with team attacks
Or you have a maximum number of three and you have a different keybind for Every spell
I see a lot of suggestions for a spell wheel, which was my initial thought. Here's an alternative, which is simpler to use and a middle ground between "pick a spell ahead of time" and "all spells get cast at once". What if the player picks a spell ahead of time, and then each weapon has a spell associated with it? So for example, the greatsword has the fire enchantment as its spell and the player picks the lightning spell. Pressing the spell button would cast both simultaneously.
This allows for players to have build expression by allowing them to choose a spell and pick a weapon with an expanded moveset from what is currently present in the game. It also plays into the theme of strategically cycling through weapons, since players will prioritize weapons which have a spell that is especially useful for a given fight. This would also be a huge asset in level design, as you would be able to give the players spells that are more or less useful depending on what you want, but without making the player feel as if they're not in control (since they get to manually choose one of their two spells).
So excited to see where this game goes!! I'm following it's development through every step and supporting it because it really has potential!
Also, I like the idea of holding down the button longer to change the spell, but you would have to be able to, in the inventory or something, equip each spell in each slot. For instance if you equip fire, and you want to be able to cast it more easily than lightning, or you use it more in general, then put it in the "1" slot and put lightning in the "2" slot. Then, fire will activate when you press the button for only a short time and lightning will require a hold.
This game always gives me such cozy and nostalgic vibes. I can't wait to play it!
A few ideas...
1. Spell changes based on what you're wearing. i.e. red robe, fire spell, blue robe lighting.
2. a wearable item like an amulet that you can switch that is the spell focus and the color of the gem determines the spell you can use.
3. wild magic - make an indicator on a mana ring that moves around the perimeter automatically, and in a somewhat unpredictable way, when you push the trigger button it fires a spell associated with the area of the ring that the indicator is on. To add to this, you could make the areas where a certain spell can be cast change in size based on the environment, for example, standing near water makes the water spell area larger, holding a torch or standing near one makes the fire area larger. This would be really chaotic and would require concentration to time your spells right, but hey, shouldn't spells require concentration?
Cool ideas!
You need add those, Challacade
something like Overheat might be a better spell name, since if new players used it and assumed that it was a fireball, not having a fireball would be pretty disappointing imo
Rename it canned heat, replace the energy bar with an empty can that fills with heat and when it’s full your guy not only casts the fire spell but does a little napoleon dynamite-esque dance move.
@@HiddenInTheReedsWow, very cool
Can feel the warmth of your game.
Yo! This game's weapon combat system is insane... (I WANNA PLAY THE FINAL VERSION)
Reminds me of classic zelda games, I love this style and miss it in the new games.
I have an idea for spells that would add some of tactics to the game. Spells can be like cards and the player's role is to put them in order they would like to use them. Spells can regenerate by time flow or by visiting a shrine.
Maybe when you hold the attack button to use a spell, the available spells show up as a ring around the player and you need to push towards the spell you want to cast and it casts the spell when you release the button, so players can think about what to use while evading the attacks
Idea for your game: add a parry window for attacks. In a game called ULTRAKILL, most bosses will have a yellow flash before some of their attacks or combos. Hitting them during that period with a melee attack will interrupted the attack, heal the player, and deal some extra damage to the target. You are also able to parry projectiles to deflect them and heal you. I think you should do something similar to this where if you time a sword hit or a weaker melee attack that is binded to a separate button so the player can’t spam an attack right before an enemy attacks, it will give you more mana than usual and deal more damage. You might also need an indicator before the enemy attacks so the player knows when to time the hit.
I think it would be cool if a spell worked differently according to your weapon.
Example : When u cast the fire spell on the sword you gain the fire aspect, but if u cast with the boomerang, it would make that whenever you throw the boomerang it leaves a fire trail.
Great video!
Maybe if you hold the attack button, you cycle through the spells.
Or, the longer you hold the attack button the more powerful the spell.
Love the changes and cant wait to try them out in game when they release! On the spell part, think one spell at a time would be the best approach to it because it adds variety to the game and make every single play through a bit diffrent
I am way too excited for this game
A few thoughts:
- Separate button for spell casting. Press to cast. Hold to select spell.
- Items and/or weapons could modify the way the spell works. Spear makes a long line of the spell. Dagger does lots of small projectiles. Wearable items could do things like change the damage or charge time.
- Healing with an imbued weapon could do something extra.
Progress looks great so far.
I’d get if some didn’t agree, but I feel like it would be really cool the saturation should change sometimes. Like, some parts of the game look so warm and vibrant, like a professional photograph. Sometimes, it could be tone down, and more simple, less overwhelming.
IDEA: The player can choose the ability to use according to the direction he is trying to go while charging. For example, we have four spell slots, and as we progress in the game, we add or remove the spells we want to these four slots. In this way, it becomes a challenge which spells we want to take when we go on a journey, different spells can be used without the need for an extra button, and we are not limited to only one spell.
I personally like the idea of only being able to choose one spell at a time. Restrictions force players to be more intentional with their decisions, which is something I personally enjoy.
It would also be cool if some of the spells were defence or utility focused (ex: ice gives you additional, nonstackable armor; wind increases movement speed or decreases dodge cooldown; earth causes more currency to drop for a specific time window).
Lastly, have you considered variable charge rates for magic? For example, if you want to help players that are struggling, have the first hit after taking damage give more charge or if you want to reward skilled players, have each hit give more charge, resetting when the player takes damage.
Awesome work! I'm really excited for the full release!
Personally from what we've seen, I feel like recharging energy by sacrificing weapons works well enough for a "variable charge rate" mechanic
I also think that you could maybe have spells that take less energy, and are less powerful perhaps. This would ease the balancing process probably, having a bunch of spells that all cost the same amount of energy (the maximum) would be pretty hard to balance I think. It also makes gameplay more interesting, players could strategise what spells to use in a single battle, do they spend it all on one giant spell, or do they use it on multiple smaller ones for e.g. a horde of enemies.
I love game/mechanic design so I'd love to give my 2 cents here.
I think holding down the button to use different spells is a really interesting option. Although not in the sense of bringing up a selection wheel, but instead having each new spell added to a slider bar. Holding down the button would move the slider further up the bar.(most likely pausing for a moment at each spell). When you aren't holding the button however, the slider drops back to the bottom of the bar. When you release the held button or hit the "cast" button, the closest spell you are above (which you would probably want to highlight while its sliding in order to reduce confusion) is cast.
The pros of this system would be:
- access to multiple spells
- being able to choose the spell to cast
- relatively little HUD intrusion (especially if you combine it with the already existing mana bar)
- it is a fairly creative system(i am an unbiased source obviously), i personally haven't seen anything like it in any other game at least
- by being able to place a spell higher on the bar you can can use it as another way to balance a spells overall power (which can lead to more spells, increased spell diversity, and more interesting combinations of spells.)
The cons of this system would be:
- however little, it would still add to the screen (putting this as a con since you mentioned preferring simplicity
- being a new system, it could have a steeper learning curve than would be desired
(yall feel free to add more pros and cons in the replies)
BONUS:
If the slider pauses at a spell, then having too many spells could be detrimental to casting speed, making it a self balancing system.
Currently playing the demo. Omg, even as a demo this game is great, great combat mechanics that make for interesting combat scenarios this is beautiful, the artwork, the sound design, this is crazy this game deserves the best for it
TLRR:
Crackhead spitballing a spells idea + i like the dpad / num keys idea too
Lets you choose spells to have available and select which one to use on the fly.
this encourages trying different ones often rather than setting one spell and never changing.
it would also prevent the monotonous task of interacting with menus every time you want to cast a different spell.
-----
NOW if you want a crack head idea, ive got you covered. Assigm each spell to an area of the following 4 axis chart (or a variation of it):
Air
|
Ice ------ Fire
|
???
When the player moves, the last few inputs are read and assigned a spot on the graph. They then cast the spell.
For example, if they want to cast fire, they walk right for a moment and cast. Freeze or slow an enemy? Walk left the cast. Water spell? stay still for a moment and cast. (maybe a water spell conjures a ripple wave sending pushing enemies away)
Lightning? Walk up and right for a moment and cast.
Hot water wave, dealing scalding damage and pushing enemies? Slight right movements.
Cold wave pushing and slowing enemies?
Straight up air could enchant a weapon to have the flying wooshing blades for a moment
You get the idea.
Cool idea!!
Personally, I think destroying your weapon should fill your energy meter fully, and have the healing require energy instead, like in hollow knight. A full heal being separate from your energy bar gives the player an innate buff, which makes the game much easier imo. Forcing the player to choose how to use their energy could not only increase the depths of the combat, but also make the game a tad more challenging, as the player is very OP at the moment. This is just my opinion, and the game’s progress is going amazingly. Keep up the good work!!
Great feedback!
I think a directional pad system focuses more on player control. Holding down the button seems difficult for player to control. And there is a compounding issue if you want to add more spells. Since you mention Hallowknight, I think button combinations is a really haptic solution. Spells seem to represent knowledge or remembering spells and complex button inputs can symbolically represent that.
As feedoback for the magic system:
I very much enjoy the idea of how long you hold determines what spell you unleash. I think some good UI so that the player can assign short/medium/long hold time spells could be good. It allows the player to tailor their spells to their play style, but requires a bit more work design side. You'll need multiple levels of spells for each element. So a short hold fire spell can be something like a "firebolt" in D&D, where a long hold time is more like a "Fireball". This way the player can decide that they like to have a short cast time ice spell to slow enemies to give then the breathing room to cast their high level fire spell, or vice versa. Mix in different base level magics and you have a lot of option output with little input.
When your meter is full, you can open a spell book, which has X spells you equipped/learned. This can operate like emotes, where you slow down time and pick from the spell wheel. You could unlock new spells from item pick-ups, defeating bosses, and/or leveling up. In your inventory is when you can "prepare" your spells, by choosing what's on your spell wheel.
Here’s an idea for the spells, have it be similar to Hollow Knight, where you have a limited amount of “slots” that you could put a variety of different spells in, each with their own amount of slots needed for that spell. You could have it increase every time you get another cloak (or something similar), not changing the effects, just adding the limit of slots you have.
I've been watching your content for quite a while now, I've never missed a video, easily my favourite devlog series on youtube right now!
Might be interesting to take a page from Celeste’s book and represent mana/charge as a change on the player sprite and have it be more frequent but less potent casts. Would keep players’ eyes on the action and away from the hud a bit more. Bit more immersive I think
I might have an idea for the spell thing:
You could do it so the casting action is done by holding the attack button but the spell that came out relied on context.
For instance: casting while standing still could be how you cast the lightning bolt, casting while moving could cast something else, casting while dodging another spell, etc.
I had not considered this, thank you!
@@Challacade Glad to help! I'm running on a similar problem on a game of my own, but I don't think this solution applies to my case, because in my case most abilities should be able to be performed often and regardless of player movement, but since all the spells you've shown are non-frequent one-time action, I believe it might work well for your game. What I'm trying to get at is that yeah, I know the struggle :p
Something like this could work. And it would be even more seamlined. You would have to make it more clear at the same time or it could cause confusion or frustration to the player. “I was standing still” kinda thing. But i think your on the right track
An idea I saw from another game was using the mana bar, but based on how much mana you have you cast a certain spell. A weaker attack when you have less mana but it also uses less mana and a strong attack when you have a lot but it uses the entire bar. Anyway the game is looking great. I played the demo and it was really fun. Love to see what is coming next!
Love the new update, I think a slow mo section where you see all the spells you’ve unlocked and you can choose one based on what situation your in
Maybe spells could function like a deck of cards?
Newly acquired spells are added to the deck and each time a spell is cast a new one is drawn at random. The player could re-roll their active spell by holding the attack button before the mana bar is fully charged, which would cost some but not all of their mana.
This way, the player is encouraged to use whatever is available to them, which may lead to some creative decision making. However they also have the option to choose a different spell if they really want to.
Whatever you decide, am sure you’ll make it work. The game is looking great so far, keep up the good work!
In regards to key bindings, I like the focus on keeping it easy to use on the fly.
Depending on the direction you want to go, my idea is this;
1. Allow users to map inputs
2. Set input combinations like (L + A , B , X , Y )...
3. Allow users to learn skills / discover them through input combinations
4. Allow custom builds that incentivize "Synergies" , "Archetypes", "Desired Playstyles" , or even "Narrative Roles".
5. ???
6. Profit
I think it would be really fun and innovative for a game to offer this option. It doesn't have to be followed like other games either, it can be a nice change of pace for beginner and veteran players.
its been a while since i followed the development of this game and i gotta say, it sure has changed a lot! this game looks great
I'm thinking maybe you could dim the energy bar while it's charging, and then un-dim it when it's full and maybe blink it twice, or some extra visual indications of when it is indeed full. Hollow knight also does the dimming part, when you don't have enough energy to do anything it turns darker.
It'll be also cool to have an accessory with its own battle effect on some sort. It will definitely add depth to combat.
Maybe you could solve the spell issue by "linking" spells to different weapon types. You could make it so you learn a spell for each weapon type (for example: heavy, medium, light or slashing, thrusting, ranged). Then the player could maybe change which spell fits each weapon type in a menu or smth. Idk if the spells should be attached to the energy bar or breaking the weapon, but i think ull know better.
Game is looking awsome so i hope u continue going at it as strongly as you are. Keep up the good work!
Sorry if my english has some errors, im spanish
Best idea i seen so far
Best idea i seen so far
Best idea i seen so far
Best idea i seen so far
for the spells, what if you do something like Mario cart where you can have 2 spells equipped at one time, and you could cycle through them.
An idea for the spell system, when you use a skill, the game goes in slow motion for a few seconds and opens a menu with all the skills avaliable to use, then you select it and the time starts running normally again
Here's some feedback that fits the minimalist approach to your game:
Have the bar be the spell indicator itself. For example, instead of being a grey bar, make it red with a fire symbol. Then have a button cycle between spells. I tap the button to change it to a different spell. The bar becomes yellow with a lightning bolt now. Simple and doesn't require selection wheels or anything. The player doesnt have to pick ahead of time and can freely swap spells on the fly!
This has come so far since the first Demo. Looks like a lot of fun to try out.
For the spell selection, you could make a spell wheel. When holding down a certain key it brings up a wheel with all the spells you have unlocked, clicking with the mouse or pressing a direction key with WASD would select the different spells on the spell wheel.
The first thought that came to mind was to have certain enemies be more or less weak to certain types of spells. Puts a little more thought into what spell you're using, but I'm eager to see what unique ideas you come up with
I genuinely relish each and every video release. Your consistent excellence is truly commendable. Keep up the exceptional work!
Thank you!!
I love the creative ways to come up with mechanics and weapons, it is always intriguing
Just came back after completing the demo. What an amazing game! :D
Haven't enjoyed playing anything in a long time. The boss fights were fun and very well designed, especially the final one.
Can't wait to try the finished game!
A spell band would be cool. What's a spell band you ask? Simply put it's like an arm band, except you can have a system that you decide how many spells can be equipped. Which leaves it open to you to make better and better bands. Say a early game band has 1-2 spell slots, mid game 2-3 , late game 3-5. Just a secondary thought, If you are going to limit spells then (as a aspiring indie dev myself) you'll have to make them special and unique where the player kinda struggles to pick the best combination, maybe a water and ice spell has some hidden interaction > water spell soaks the enemies for 10s, then an ice spell used while soaked freezes them for x duration.
I love you you laid out your thought process on this one.
Tying all spells to one mana bar can sometimes encourage players to use the same spell that is the best over and over.
I think the best way to fix that would be to give the player the option to choose a few spells, and then have each spell have it's own mana bar. This way players would be encouraged to use thier weaker spells without missing out on the more powerfull ones. More powerfull spells could require twice as many hits or 2 weapon sacrifices compared to weaker ones and spells could interact with eachother in interesting ways. This does have the problem of cluttering up the UI but it could work.
Love the dev logs keep up the good work! : )
I have been toying with an idea for spell selection and I think it could work here. You have a spell button that once clicked opens 3 options, each one with a pre assigned button. In a game pad you could imagine you press A to change to spell mode, causing the B, X and Y to be pre determined spells. Clicking A or using a spell would revert to combat mode. If the game has more than 3 spells, clicking A could rotate to the next 3 spells or you could let those 3 slots be customisable in a inventory
That's a unique idea, I'll think about this!
A couple thoughts:
1. The spells you can cast are dependent on what weapon you are currently holding. You don’t have to add any extra buttons beyond “cast spell”, and it makes each weapon feel more unique.
2. If hitting things = more charge, then having more minions during boss battles will encourage your player to bounce between dealing with minions to charge your spells and using said spells on the boss.
I like the idea of casting one spell or another depending on the length of the press. To me sounds kind of like the reload system of gears of war. You could even add a similar fail scenario were you spoil the cast and loose the bar, it could add a risk to a high reward that it's the spell.
It would need a nice and clear UI, though, but I can imagine some options.
Amazing work so far!
D-pad/number keys to toggle through spells, spell button casts the currently selected spell. It adds another HUD item but if you're only having a few spells in the game, a select wheel is a lot. However if you're having more than 2 or 3 spells, I think the selection wheel is the way to go.
Your game looks amazing as ever, can't wait for it.
It would be cool to see spells added to existing mechanics too. E.g.
Double tap “roll” = some kind of offensive roll attack (think like the homing attack in Sonic)
Healing with a full magic bar = add some kind of explosive/knockback effect to creatures near you
You can make it so when you hold the attack button a wheel of spells will appear and the player could choose a spell by releasing the attack button while having the mouse on the right spell. This way you won't need to to new key bindings and the player will still have the element of strategy of choosing the right spell. Plus it's expandable, you can just add more spell to the wheel. Hope you'll like this idea and good luck😊
Spell Casting Idea: I think you should give them 2 available spell slots that you can equip an unlocked spell, which can be activated with the keybinds Z and X, the spells could have a cooldown displayed with two individual bars that fill up over a set time and once full allows you to use the move again, but also you could have an extended length to the bar that if you wait to fill up makes your spell a bit more powerful when released giving players an option between casting immediately or trying to stall so they can deal a bit more damage. Hope this helps
Build a stack of spells that you want to cast. Combos, order, repetition all have an effect.
Something like Transistor, but realtime. The setup using controller is a bit tricky, but it is in itself a mechanic especially when you are surrounded and must act fast. It’s literally a spell you perform and then cast.
I feel than when you destroy a weapon you heal when not at full health and get full mana when at full health this will reward players or speedruners for not taking damage hence be able to cast more spells
It would be a lot of work but maybe each weapon type could interact with the spells in a different way like the spear could react to lighting with bolts “randomly” falling from the sky and a great sword would send an electricity wave forward
I think having the energy bar give you one spell point every time it gets full then having like a set of spells equipped where you have to like pick only three spells out of a collection you find along the was would be cool and also making some enemies and bosses immune to a specific spell would also add up to the preplanning of a fight. Also having a kind of a mixing system where if you collect an amount of spell points you can cast two spells at once resulting in a new ability that can only be activated when chanting a number of spells together mid fight which will add more to the strategy of filling up the spell bar so you can make stronger but more expensive and complicated spells, it kinda reminds me of special moves in fighting games. So yeah here is my idea ik it needs alot if work and balancing to do specially making the "spell tree" showing you sll the different types of spells you can mix but if you managed to make ut work it would be such a great and new concept
something you could do is make it so you can equip spells and when your Mana reaches a certain point you can perform the spell that is reached. This introduces a tactical element where the player needs to carefully consider to what part of the Mana bar your spells get equipped to. You could enhance this by making the Mana upgradeable so that the player can equip more spells. It also fixes the keybinding issue
A thing that might work for different spells to equip them: you hold the mousewheel and get a little pop-up-menu like, for example, in overwatch with the communication menu or in aragami its with different abilities aswell - in aragami its on a different button but i think it might be very usefull on the middle mousebutton (and that it eventually "pauses" the game for a second in the background while you are chosing the spell you want)
I like the idea with the game slowing down while choosing the spells - If the wheel comes up, have an 'animated' slowdown of time and release of it. Would be fitting for a more fast paced game like that one. ^^
Things I would love to see to improve the combat
1- adding a speed upgrade to run faster
2- adding more classes of weapons
3- when you fight there's a delay between the attacks and it's kind of long which makes the combat not fluid
4-well this is not related to combat but some animations are so well made and others not and lacks details like the mana bar and the sword swings
Other than that the game is great and really in love with , I was following the process since the first shorts you made on tiktok and youtube and didn't expected it to reach this point ❤
I would make multiple versions of each spell, where you would have a forward version, a backwards version, a side version, and a neutral version. You could then equip a different spell to each "slot" and use that spell by holding the attack button plus a directional input. Each version could have a different style, for instance the forwards version could be a powerful directional attack, backwards could be defensive, etc.
Spells can be tied to actions or weapons and you can give the player the option to choose whether to use an offensive or defensive spell. Example: when the mana bar reaches 100 percent, the next successful attack will trigger an AOE spell cast, but if the player chooses to dodge roll with said full mana bar, a temporary damage shield will form around the player to mitigate damage for "x amount of damage or time". This could even open up other possibilities such as incorporating another resource bar into the game for the sole purpose of auto spells (and call it energy as opposed to mana, maybe?). This way, there's no actual resource management for the second resource bar and it won't require any extra key bindings - while still adding variety and choice of auto spells. (And still having a manual spell to fire off at will, when the mana bar is full.)
First of all, what amazing project is yours! Congrats!
My opinion: hit for get energy is better than destroy weapons. Instead of use all energy for a spell/hability, you can specify a number, that will give you the possibility to chain skills. You can add a hotkey for change spells adding slots for them. I can imagine how fun can be go around the world for amplify my maximum life or energy bar and learn new skills. I see your game will shine, specially in combat, I would suggest show the number of damage( maybe that's not necessary but considering the possibilities you would like to open in combat, is some how a way people improve their combat as they please). I'm watching your progress dude, will be a pleasure to buy and play your game!
Thank you for the feedback!
Making you wait for one spell longer then for the other would make the player assume its more powerful.
I think that having a spell selection which you could navigate would give the most freedom.
Also, it'd be cool if there were mage/wizard weapons, which greatly enhance the power of spells, but do less damage by themselves. Or maybe if you break them, you release multiple spells/stronger spells, but dont heal/heal less.
Add a rare spell which you can only get in abandoned churches called "life after death" making you able to spawn certain enemies under your level and some bosses
Passive:corpse disintigration-will add a corpse to your corpse bar (the corpse bar can only hold 10 corpses or more when upgraded and will let you view the stats of the corpse if you were to summon it
Spell:Life After Death-will let you summon a corpse from the bar every 30 seconds and the body will decay if inused
For the magic you could do a 3 input combo while holding attack for example: hold a + up down left for lightning. Since it takes longer you could make it stronger idk
I've got 18251025 ideas... how about spells can have different levels (maybe you can find them, or level them up, or they are even bound to a weapon or weapon type. The mana charge bar is great, depending on how full it is (or you can just charge it multiple times), you activate either lvl 1, lvl 2 or lvl 3 of your spell. the longer you charge, the better the spells level is. if you allow the player to mix and match with a fun ui, you could e.g. use a lighting lvl 1 for the first full charge, a fire lvl 2 for the second charge and another lighting lvl 3 for the trird charge. New weapons always charge the first bar and heal, like they already do in your example.
that way you could allow for either different spells you can find, maybe some only have lvl2 and lvl3, some only lvl 1 (so they can be only slotted to those levels), or some weapontypes always give a lvl 2 lighting, maybe it's a skill you can upgrade for your character, or on the weapon, or a potion that temporarly boosts you to go below charge lvl 1, 2, 3 for a certain amount of time.
on the other hand, having dedicated buttons for skills is always great, as it gives a lot of control and allows for the use of several skills at once if needed.
another idea would be to add spells to certain movements. a spell that always casts when you dodge, when you destroy a weapon, when you move a direction. you could even go the helldivers 2 route and introduce spellcasting dances that need you to press a spellcasting button, slow down time and you get one chance to correctly type the right arrows to cast a spell. that way you could have as many as you want parallel.
anyway, love what you're doing, still think the hud with these bubbles and numbers are way worse than actual heartcontainers and shields, and really looking forward to the next update.
Great feedback and ideas, thank you!
I know I'm late, but what if the spells cycled, and you could pick the order in which the spells are cast? This could create cool combos like a vortex spell that pulls enemies into one spot, and then some high damage, low AOE spell to do a bunch of damage to one spot with a bunch of enemies.
For different spells:
Hold down the button and make the player decide the spell like Helldivers lets you choose what you want to do.
So for example for fire:
Hold + WWAS (up-up-left-down)
For thunder:
Hold + WDSSA (up-right-down-down-left)
Or just a menu, idk
You mentioned planning which spell to bring as a possibly cool thing. I think a big improvement in that direction is to plan the *order* spells get cast, and then each cast cycles through the list. This allows casting multiple spells and strategizing how you'll cast your spells beforehand, without adding any complexity (visual or control) during the fights themselves. A strategy might be something like "AoE spell followed by random-target spell so you're more likely to hit the big baddie", you get the gist I hope
So excited about the progress of the game!
Maybe for choosing your spell you can equip some sort of talisman that you can quickly change by iterating over a list of equiped spells? Maybe using the keys like in elden ring?
In this way the player can quickly decide the spell to use while having visual feedback of the equiped talisman at the bottom of the screen.
Keep it up! 🎉🎉🎉
This game looks amazing, it's like the kind of game I'd always dream of making.
Maybe the spells should do a ranged magical attack + add the element to your weapon both at once.
And a dedicated spell button would be better.
A hold attack to do a slightly stronger attack (or even a ranged attack?) would make the combat options more interesting.
maybe it would be a good idea to make a wheel like shape appear around the player when he presses a key, and the direction which he walks would determine the spell that he would use (like, player presses key, walks north and stop pressing key, the spell to the north was selected that way), 4 at least.
This may limit the number of spells that the mc can do, but then again, it would make the game a little more strategic for players that like it.
Also, having a place where you can organize yourself and decide the 4 spells that you would like to take with you on the adventure would be a great idea or even idk, a hub before boss battles like in Ultrakill with the difference that you can only choose the spells that you're using in the battle
Idk, just thrown some ideas that I had a while ago, hope you like 'em :))
Les go new vid on one of my most anticipated projects.
Btw I have an idea for you related to the spells. What if you keep 2 different kind of manas for 2 different kind of spells that can be equipped at a time. One charged when doing damage, another charges when taking damage (just and example). Idk if that would rly be good, but yeah just spoke my mind.
Thanks for awesome content again! and gl with the development.
It would be fun if when the bar is fully charged you have a new bar on the botton of the screen and you have to press the attack button when the bar shows the spell you want, is like a fun and challenging mechanic
What if throwing was how you changed spells?
The throw button also causes the character to do a little arcane hand waving. It requires both hands so he has to drop the weapon to swap. If he has no current weapon he can rapid fire swap freely. Throwing the weapon does not break it, but they have to retrieve it. (can add a jewel to have the weapon auto return at the end of a spell swap)
Makes weapons like the boomerang fun as you are able to swap spells before it returns.Could even have spell swamping charge a bit of energy. Fun boomerang mini game of pressing your luck seeing how much you can swap before it returns to you and you miss catching it?
I always liked that shovel knight had different options for choosing a spell/utility slot. You could either use a button to cycle through them, or open a unique pause menu to access the options. At first, I always paused the game, to swap out because I needed the time to think and choose, but once I got the hang of it I started using cycling and key binds. Whatever you choose, maybe consider giving players the option to slow down or go fast.
I've got an idea: You have to quickly choose which special attack you want to use. Example: You hold, then a menu shows up, you hold your joystick down for Option 1, up for Option 2, left-up for Option 3, etc. Then release the input and wherever your 'cursor' is left, that option gets picked.
Edit: kind of how most games do quick-chat or emoting
For the spell casting type with 1 or 2. Jsut make a wheel when the player hold down "Z" or a key and let the mouse pick the one they want .
i really liked that old system where you had 3 spells and could switch between them, i think it gave more freedom to the player.
idk how good of an idea it is, but i think it'd be cool to be able to imbue spells onto weapons, so the spell you can use is fully dependent on the weapon you're using, and you can talk to like an npc or something to swap the imbued spell for another one you've unlocked. it would be hard to balance this when you heal with the weapon, since it'd get boring having to imbue every weapon you find, but it's still something to consider
just and idea though, games looking great!
you could tackle this problem by doing it the way hollow knight does, holding different keys for different spells
like down + spell for descending dark, etc.
Switching between magic casts - each spell has a minimum mana requirement, and when you have that mana it becomes available. You can choose to either spend less mana on the lower spells, or wait to cast the most expensive one on the bar. When getting enough mana for the higher tier spells, you also wont be able to cast the lower one, so you dont go supernova when you spend the max mana, and you also get the extra level of strategy and choice.
I like the idea of selecting a spell while charging the cast. It's simple yet effective. Having your movement locked down while still being able to cancel out creates a solid risk vs reward decision. The only part I don't like is that it makes it awkward to aim the spells if you're already holding a button and using the direction controls to select. Especially more complicated spells that need to be placed in a specific location rather than a simple direction. You could always make it so that instead of a ring it's a simple L1/R1 cycle through a list but I find tapping a direction on a ring much more intuitive and cool. You could always try the held time determines the cast method, but add the additional axis of switching disciplines of magic while casting. To use the boring fireball example you have a generic 'concussive ball' spell. From there you can use a focus object or switch pages in your spell book to swap it from concussive to fire, lightning, corrosive, large (bigger radius, lower damage), focused (smaller radius, higher damage), etc. All the disciplines have the same base spells on the same cooldown until they get to the longest cast which performs that disciplines ultimate spell.
Personally I find all that a little dull. It's much less demanding on the implementation side though.
What I think would be more on brand is if the spell choice was based on what you're currently holding and instead of the classic elemental scissors-paper-rock component it was more interaction/manipulation focused. A spear style weapon leaves a light spear in it's wake like an arrow that pins pierced enemies in place for a second. Casting with a hammer style weapon does a circle shockwave knockback/interrupt. The synergy between how the weapon fights and the spells it casts takes a fair bit of work on the design side but in this case I think the payoff would be worth it because the game already feels ripe for cool rare interactions.
There might be a rare item that that's terrible as a weapon, but if you cast using it time freezes, you drop the weapon, and you get 10 seconds to go nuts. If you aren't holding the weapon at the end of those 10 seconds you take massive whiplash damage as you're dragged back to the point in time where you began casting from. Obviously that specific example is a massive leap under the hood from simply throwing red, blue and green orbs but starting simple down this route means you can eventually get to places like that which give your game those signature moments in players minds.
To me stuff like barriers, summons, self-clones, mind control and polymorph are infinitely more interesting than standard double damage to weak enemies. I don't hate that style of magic, and as a gamedev I get that if casting isn't a massive focus of the game it's about as deep as anyone should justify going, but I also don't find remembering a list of Pokémon weaknesses to be particularly engaging. It's tactical in the sense that you have to make a choice but because there is a correct choice it's effectively automatic. It becomes about getting punished when you make a mistake and continuing along the baseline is your reward for playing well. You get these cool looking special moves but the catch is you only get to use them when the game demands you do. It's almost better to skip the type effectiveness and make them nothing more than pretty looking special attacks like Final Fantasy Limit Breaks.
All that said you can still have fire and ice themes to the spells. It doesn't have to be all weird 'swap the enemy's feet and hands' spells. Just have the interaction be that a guy on fire frantically tries to put himself out while spreading the flames if he comes into contact with flammable/explosive objects. A very quick cast lightning spell might be the game's core interrupt ability. Very little damage but the target stops what they're casting and may even drop what they're holding. Being frozen in a persistent snowstorm might simply prevent them from using more advanced attacks or throw their aim off. It doesn't have to do anything majorly complicated because walking on ice and while trying to aim through a blizzard is hard enough already.
They don't have to be weak to these thing in the mathematical sense because in the practical sense if you hit a group of people with a massive blast of wind they get knocked around the arena, potentially slamming hazards into them or vice versa. That's what being mathematically weak to something is meant to represent and this game feels like the perfect choice to strip that away in favour of literal representation.
It fractures out into all sorts of wild interactions. If there's a 3x3 tile wall spell linked to a weapon and you happen to have one when you begin a encounter you can place it over the point where the adds spawn to stop them. Each spawn attempt cracking the spell a little would make it a very generic interaction you can use in the encounter rather than a special interaction tailored to the encounter. You may instead choose to limit the boss's mobility by placing it in their way, or even create a safe space where you can let the wall soak a special attack while you recover.
Granted that may overpower the rest of the combat mechanics and make magic too big a focus. You could make magic items rare versions of regular items but what's the point if you're not using them often? It would be special but it wouldn't just take away time you could use to work on other stuff it would also force the other combat aspects to fall in line with that playstyle. In that sense you almost want to limit magic to context sensitive finishing moves. Stuff you can use to regain health or pop an enemy to damage enemies around them.
Alternatively you could go the Jedi route. Less spells and more directly intentional environmental manipulation. If you're in a dark shadow basic flash that stuns enemies that can see you based on the difference between how much shadow you're in and the strength of the flash. If you're near an cast interactable object like a stalagmite patch in a cave you can long cast on them to build barriers. It lets you inject fun in when you feel the dungeon lagging by saying 'here's another three forest grunts, you've fought them before, but this time they're near a waterfall so you can do something cool'. At the same time you can't use them every fight so you can't make every fight feel like 'walk in, cast slow, cast mana drain, cast fire stage 2, win'.
Love this feedback and the ideas, thank you so much!!
Awesome! Cannot wait for the full release! love the demo!
Spell idea if you've not figured out how to handle it yet - Have different spells of different strengths (or different strengthed versions of each spell), have the player assign which spells they want active, one per spell strength slot, and then during combat when they cast have them deplete their entire bar and cast whatever the most powerful spell they have active is. Kind of like how IIRC Monster Rancher handled its combat system back in the day (just with doing regular attacks charging the meter rather than time), making the fundamental choice being 'weaker spells more often or more powerful spells less frequently'.
Haven't read the comments so maybe someone has the same idea:
You can equip the spells and depending on how many you have, your energy/mana will charge faster. All spells you have equipped will activate when you use it.
I honestly think you should not be afraid to add more key bindings for such a major mechanic in the game. More functions per key dont make a system more simple only less controlable, a simple button could cicle throug the spells and that already would be easy to grasp.
Love the videos!! 💖
If you aren’t interested in adding new tools to fiddle with like a spell wheel, maybe consider cycling through spells when you cast them? That way you only have one spell and one input to strategize around, but can cycle through to a different spell if you need it?
I would say have the spells be on a rotation, and unlocking a new spell just puts it in that rotation. So you would have to plan accordingly based on what spell will be cast next, and it also makes it so the player has to use all spells, instead of just the strongest one.
Perhaps you could add non magic abilites? Like a instant dashing attack
I think having the number keys switching the spells is a good idea, and maybe like a ui icon that reminds which spell you're using (heart for health, flame for fire, and lightning bolt for lightning)