You Won't Believe The Best Wood For Your Subwoofer Box! Birch vs MDF
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- To learn more about box building check out this video: • Fix this mistake to ma...
In this video we compare the two most popular material for enclosures birch and MDF and try to figure out which is the best wood for your box.
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0:00 Introduction
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To learn more about box building check this out: ua-cam.com/video/SVZ5uD_smpc/v-deo.html
I’ll stick with plywood. You can deaden it no sweat and it’s tougher to damage and moisture won’t instantly damage you box.
I started using water resistant MDF (its a green/olive color). This stuff is about double the density and weight of regular MDF. I have yet to find another wood product even close to this. It is even more enjoyable to work with than Birch (I have worked plenty with Baltic birch and regular mdf). Because it doesn't absorb moisture, painting it is a pleasure without the need to seal cut edges. In terms of sound and especially bass response, it performs incredibly well.
Where can I find a sheet?
Remember to use breathing protection, the water resistant sheets in particular use Formaldehyde as a binding agent.
Not sure about subs, however, I tried this wood for mids and highs, and the tone sounds off. Although I like that it is water resistant, dense, and heavy, the wood gives off a thin sound that I didn't like.
It is a very good choice when enclosure is meant for outdoor usage like cars, vans, trucks or even in your garage with no heating or sheds if you have a driver that is made of carbon fiber or plastic cone.
HDF - heavy density fiberboard. they make 1" thick, also. ive cut miles & miles of MDF, i hate the taste of that nasty board.
I like the birch simply because of the weight. Sometimes I have to take the box out of my truck and plywood definitely saves the back!
Got it...
Birch=Pine
Particle Board=Glued wood chips
MDF=Glued sawdust
Pretty fantastic review of the two common cabinet woods used for decades in sub enclosures. Still one caviot is the myth that the sub cabinet panels are more inert the heavier they are, false. It’s only partially true. One example to that is the Meyer Audio industry standard speaker cabinets that are known for their own gravitational pull they’re so heavy, and they do sound good and set the audio bar good and high 25-30yrs ago, but have since been out-swung by a few high-performance pro audio lines with speaker cabinets featherlight compared to the Meyer’s.
Density is just the OG method of the approach at making inert cabinets that are truly that. We’ve learned a lot since then , and one thing that’s allowed for low weight design is, very much agreed with our host of the channel here, cross bracing. It allows for very relatively thin panels to be used that only resonate in between corners and braces spans, and when dialed in high enough frequencies become inert enough to be a nothing factor below sub working frequencies.
Again, great content on the vs discussion here.
I've become a huge fan of rubberized spray on truck bed liner to cover my enclosures. Extra water resistance , very durable and makes a great anti slip surface.
i remember the first sheet of mdf that i bought from home depot was $6. back when i was first getting into enclosures, i used plywood, osb and particle board those all could be had readily for $4-5 per sheet. i recently made a sub enclosure from some scrap osb i found in the alley next to a construction job. solid box. cheers
When I got into box building my first subwoofer was for home theater and I used the Birch from Home Depot. I think it was 50 bucks a sheet, it may have been 60. If I would have known how much plywood prices were going to go up I would have bought a truck load back then.
Ahh, the good ole days.. evrything CRAZY expensive now. (Prices started going up fast when "everyone" became a DIY contractor)..
Great video overall. Thank you! Another thing--you taught me a much-needed Baltic Birch thing or three I did not already know.
Glad I could help!
I've built many boxes in both materials but my preferred technique is ½ MDF for all the interior and inside layer and the ½ Baltic ply for the outside panels. This gives the acoustic advantages of MDF and protective advantages of ply and doesn't finish too heavy.
So everything is 1" thick? clever.
@@DIYAudioGuy yes it finishes 1 inch thick. I'll apply a third baffle layer for heavy or powerful subs.
Complicated but effective. I suppose bonding the layers with adhesive under pressure is critical.
For maximum durability Ive been coating plywood boxes with fiberglass epoxy resin, (minus the glass mat) you can paint it before or after. I also like spraying the insides with auto undercoating, ive tried both asphalt and rubber. Take it a step further by rolling modeling clay into thin rolls, pressing along the corners where the panels meet, then a few layers of the undercoating or PL adhesive to prevent migration under heat.
Modeling clay is amazing stuff for damping, super cheap and a little goes a long way. Just remember when it gets hot it wants to move. In a car its great to put under dynamat wherever panels meet.
How do you suggest replacing the front baffle/board with the cutout for the woofer?
I bought a new box from ground-shaker. But the cut out is about 1/4 bigger than I want it for my 15” kicker comp q class.
I was thinking of just leaving it in place and screwing another baffle right over it with the smaller diameter cutout. It would make the baffle almost 2” because the current double layer baffle is 1.5”.
@@americandude3825 screw one in from behind or would you lose too much volume?
I switched to 1/2" 6 ply Baltic birch from Rockler years ago for my guitar amp/speaker cab projects and have never looked back. Super solid and light weight compared to 3/4" MDF. Plus I can simply stain/poly the cabs and call it a day. There's nothing wrong with MDF - but I would never go with if for anything that has to be moved around or exposed to the elements (like beer). I really appreicated the safety issues you point out! That's one thing a lot of newbies over look when when start on these kind of projects...
Pro audio gear like that needs to be durable. You ever use this stuff: parts-express.sjv.io/gbdVX2
I never understood what is the hype was about the Baltic plywood, there's a factory in my hometown (Latvia, Baltic states)and they can't keep up with the demand and i never understood why, it's just plywood made from a tree that's growing everywhere around us (birch) and now watching videos on UA-cam i start to realize how good it actually is......
love the channel and content. Its been decades since i built an enclosure; that said,, I live in the south with all of the great humidity.
One trick i used to do to prevent moisture from degrading my MDF enclosures over time was to mix a fairly cold fiberglass resin and coat the interior and exterior of the enclosure. Making it 'cold' with less activator allows it to actually absorb into the MDF and become moisture resistant. I'd aim for a cure time of 36 - 48 hours.
Really ? I recently bought a subwoofer box for 2 15's , looked this up rn after I bought it . Sanded the box , probably should have worn a mask... But I did notice inside it has fiberglass in the back end of the where the subs are . Is that a good thing? Made of mdf has a birch ported port
Cool! Yeah, I definitely like DIY projects. I've never done anything with speaker or sub enclosures, but have been really satisfied with the potential of old reclaimed pine and the finish that can be achieved.
**on a side note, the sound system that I put in my daily driver has been a game changer for me. It lifts my spirits and turns my older car into something special. 😉 👍
Right on!
Same here man. 🙂 now i can turn the volume up and i don't hear the squeaks and rattles 😅
@@robjones8733 😆 🤣...yep...2000 Mazda Mellenia, can't hear a thing!
Pine for enclosure by virtue of its finish? Form should follow function and only the wife chooses audio systems based on how they look.
No offense.
As with all things in speaker building, there are positives and negatives to all box materials. One thing that can help a lot with full range speaker boxes is cld. A layer of sound deadening material will go a long way to improve the acoustics of a box. Which can let you use materials that are lighter and easier to work with.
CLD is good stuff.
This.
ive used a product called - Forbo ; it was green in color appx. 1/2" thick and came in 5ft long rolls that weighed 400lbs.
it stuck good to 1/2" B.B. with contact cement.
it didnt like to be tooled or moved in 45° F or below temps.
Love to hear your thoughts on casting a speaker enclosure from concrete, or some other material. I think you nailed the ply vs ply vs MDF argument. Its not 100% about material strength, but more about the material not resonating.
We are going to answer your question on tonight's live show! ua-cam.com/users/liveVCpaaVaU8-Y?feature=share
I always wanted to do that !
So I've been building enclosures for a long time now and I've used mdf, Birch Maple, Baltic birch & some other various kinds of wood My very favorite for quality In audio is by far MDF. It has a warmer, rich, smoother tone compared to other types. To make sure I don't split the wood, I use mdf SPAX screws that are 1.75 inch long and have an arrow head type point . They are amazing. I also glue, caulk, brace the insides of every enclosure the down side is there heavy and if not painted or coated if water hits the wood will expand but I primer and paint every enclosure so it's solid!
Great advice!
I've made plywood boxes and line the inside with floor dampening foam. Great sound with nice flat q bass hits.
Awesome!
I just found you today and watched a couple videos. I usually use regular plywood, then I roll on Rhino Lining inside and out. Try it if you haven’t and make a video. I have also used concrete sealer but that ages and peels off.
I have not tried to paint or seal the inside of an enclosure.
Just used 3/4 mdf for a 13W7 3 cubes tuned to 33Hz , it bangs , im extremely pleased
Awesome!
MDF was always my go to for subwoofer enclosures.
Concur with MDF. I've had some very good sounding builds with MDF.
Absolutely.
I like baltic birch because I can go thinner for the same strength, but then I also add braces to keep it rigid. I have one enclosure built of 3/8" stuff and it's very strong.
That is smart.
@DIY Audio Guy that's like using a ultra thin condom on a lose vagina.
Use what you want, but 30yrs ago every pro installer including myself used particle board and it was sufficient for some high power and large builds. I never had a issue with the screws, not once. Not saying those issues couldn't arise and I'm sure some people have probably encountered them, but neither myself or any of the other installers I knew did. Good info though
Thanks for the info. I have some old home stereo speakers that are made out of particle board so I know that it was a common material once upon a Time.
You can paint mdf with an oil based paint. I've done it for years, and it resists any water! It takes quite some time to thoroughly dry but its lovely and can be cleaned once finished.
Thanks for the tip!
The people who called it cheap particle may have made a mistake in terminology (We called MDF fiber board when I was growing up), but they knew what they were talking about. It’s cheap glued board and sucks when found in cheap furniture. You are correct in talking about the density, so I don’t want to undermine the good info you’re sharing, but don’t offend your viewers by assuming they don’t know what they’re talking about. It is cheap wood dust glued together and this just happens to be an application where those qualities might work out.
My buddy uses MDF and I use Baltic Birch. I think MDF gives a more lush yummy sound and the BB gives a more tight sound. BB flexes less which is important for high compression sealed subs. I couple this with internal bracing and different deadening materials on the inside. I like both materials. I think I like the sound of MDF more, better for listening speakers; I use BB because I build studio monitors and I like a tight, fast, accurate sound.
I do see how BB will have a higher 'fs' and resonate at a higher htz. I like the tightness of the bass that bb provides and that higher resonance is handled by the dense material lining the inside of the speaker. In a weird way, having a higher resonate frequency in the enclosure actually makes for catching that vibration easier. I think an interesting verifying test would be this: 2 identical enclosures and look at the decay of each. Load with deadening material and look at decay again. My assumption is the BB will have faster decay in the sub range and will perform about same at the boxes resonate htz if treated well on the inside. Great video thanks for having this discussion
It probably follows a Pareto distribution (the 80/20 rule): For 80% of all speaker and sub boxes MDF works just fine. The other 20% would benefit from a more expensive material .
I've done my research and I can't find what I like so I do diy it might be time consuming but it's all worth it
Another excellent and enjoyable video, Justin. I really appreciate the time you take in carefully crafting the presentation of your vids.
The scripting and selected language used helps drive a cohesive presentation that is easy to both comprehend AND digest. 💪🏽🔥
I appreciate that!
@@DIYAudioGuy 100% man. Your videos are consistently made extremely well
I like the Gremlins reference 😂
Right! 🤣🤣
I was wondering if anyone would catch that.
I just bought a second hand (inexpensive) Bugera 1x12 guitar speaker cabinet. It's MDF and it sounded good. I put a Celestion Creamback in it and now it's awesome! So if you don't want to make one keep your eyes out for a 2nd hand cabinet made from MDF. They should a bit less expensive.
For sure.
I sealed my mdf with a white sealer. Just left it white. Worked great
Early acoustic suspension system enclosures were built with 13 ply marine grade plywood. Of necessity they will be filled to the brim with fiberglass or a similar material. I liked Wharfedale's solution in the mid 1960s. They built a box within a box leaving an air gap between the outside of the inner box and the inside of the outer box. That space was filled with sand.
I love the dual port birch! I’m a metal and hard punch guy but that port tune looks solid. Do your math!
ua-cam.com/video/Rd15aKMcF94/v-deo.html
Before I beginning; I'm discussing specifically Home Theater, not car audio or anything related to such.
Such a relevant video for me! I'm currently on my 4th speaker I've built since I started a few months ago. Although I have yet to finish 3 of them, I'm building the enclosures first for both woodworking fun and style.
So the question is simple: What's your take on utilizing solid wood (of different species, not pine...never pine lol; More like Oaks, Walnuts Teak, etc) to build the box, and then inside of this box, build an MDF box?
In my scenario, which I plan on doing for the Subwoofer; I'll be doing a 14 (H) x15 (L) x 14 (W) subwoofer encloser out of 3/4" woods, inlayed between Oak and Wulnut, using box and mitre joints at the corners.
- The back will be recessed 1/2 inch for the MDF back panel for the amp plate.
- The front will have a 1" recess for 3/4 MDF then a 1/4 Oak face. (Maybe? I'm unsure if I'll do this or simply paint the MDF black and do speaker cloth).
Inside of this box, my idea was to simply make another box out of MDF taking the internal measurements and putting it together inside of the lager enclosure. Although I will "lose" volume, the idea is to specially add both mass and have the unique woodworking techniques I wanted to try (including a couple inlays and a branding), whilst having a natural oil finish.
Thoughts? Thing this will be a worse solution that simply using only the hardwood for the project? I also do have plenty of mineral wool from a remodel project that I never used (Overspent, had 4 batts left over, I also have Pink-Panther R15 insulation left over, too.)
The subwoofer size I was considering was 8 - 10" or so; I'm looking to specifically hit a quality range for a home theater without going too overboard. I have plenty of oak and walnut left over from additional projects so for me, that cost is minimal.
Natural wood will expand and contract as the humidity changes. I have been told that if you seal the inside and outside of the enclosure it will be ok, but I have not tried that yet.
I came across a lab test of various wood spices both under a microscope and acoustical measurements. I tend to overthink and over-engineer my boxes. Stay away from pine and oaks! Pine is light (low density) and doesn't sound good to me compared to Baltic Birch or MDF. Oaks on the other hand are very dense and bring a certain "ringing" to the box especially in the high freq range without considerable treatment (made a few boxes of 3/4 European Oak and don't like how they sound). Walnut is beautiful to look and work with, but has similar characteristics to oaks. So far, according to the document I manged to get, ASH wood seems to be the best in terms of acoustics as per the lab test. It has density around that of MDF, but lower than Oaks and it's acoustical properties have a smooth distribution across a wide frequency range with no sharp impulses, ringing or absorption. I haven't tried the ASH yet as it's curing for several months now.
Exotics like mahogany, zebrano, bamboo and teak are also a possibility, but outside my budget where I live so I have no experience with them. Teak is also waterproof. With bamboo you may need to increase wall/baffle thickness as it's light, compared to other woods.
Regarding your box, you can always make a framed MDF internal skeleton and build the outside of something natural that you like, keeping internal dimensions appropriate for the speaker in question, although this will increase overall size. I say go for the Walnut you have around. Joined smaller planks for baffles and/or sides will mitigate possible future warping and joinery in the construction will make it concrete-like strong as well as beautiful. Me personally, I love dove-tails. Good luck to you.
Ipe will move very little with changing conditions, but it is also incredibly dense and expensive. (Heavy, hard on tooling.) It would look amazing but it might ring I'm not sure. Would be sick for cladding an MDF box I'm sure.
I always use both, MDF inner and Plywood outer with a constraining silicone layer in between them.👍
The loudspeaker design cookbook mentioned something very similar to that.
The n95 leftover from the covid era work well. Rustnoilum paint seals and looks great in matching colors
Auto body primer filler works great for MDF. 3 coats a light sanding and you can paint right over the edges.
Yes, it does.
If you use MDF and live in a wet/humid climate, a little not so cheap trick, is to coat the entire box, inside and out, with fiberglass resin, and then finish however you want. It seals the wood completely, and makes it pretty much, weatherproof. I wouldn't suggest leaving it out in the rain, but it will be much better than bare wood, or just carpeted.
That would do the trick.
MDF is most definitely the way to go!!! People are definitely on the birch wagon but I don't have the money for that!🤣
Great video!!!
If it works and it's cheaper than why not use it?
@@DIYAudioGuy EXACTLY!
Weight is a factor with MDF, it’s the heaviest compared to plywood. Oak plywood is the closest to MDF as far as damping and it’s way lighter!
I had to build a port enclosure for my boat, only real option was the baltic birch, found a supplier 25 minutes from my home, a 4x8 sheet was extremely heavy, I never weighted it but was a true ¾ inch
You hit the nail on the head with "every project a little better than the last". This is life, continual growth and improvement. Love your stuff, has helped my projects a lot!
Thanks.
I have a wood distributor about an hour away from me, who well, sells to those cabinet guys, but they were happy to sell me 6 4 x 8 sheets of baltic birch(13ply) for my dual 18" subwoofer enclosure. Really amazing wood to work with, I used a polymerized tung oil as a finish and it was outstanding. $125 bucks a sheet though and thats a tough pill to swallow when ACX pine plywood and MDF are nearly 150% cheaper.
Yea, it ain't cheap.
I love the video. Someday I'll get off my tuckis and build me a box. I'll keep watching these videos in the meanwhile
Your first box is your worst box.
I have access to a cabinet shop. That has tons of sheets of baltic birch. i have made a few boxes with it. I love it, but it's all pre finished, so you have to sand it down.
The problem with MDF for live audio sound is the weight, and if you drop the cabinet. We had a set of MDF subs and dropped one of them; it completely crushed the corner, and literally cracked the cabinet in half.
OSB doesnt hold screws well. It holds up better than MDF, but still isnt ideal.
DIY has a nicer look overall. CNC'd everything tends to be a bit too crisp. Hand worked stuff has a high quality feel to it, that you can't just buy anywhere. I use thinned epoxy to seal MDF. I use hybrid construction. MDF panels with plywood bracing.
6:00 I thought the reason you preferred MDF was because it was "less resonant"? But if it's more flexible than plywood of the same dimensions, then the plywood is stiffer and therefore less resonant, especially when given the support of a box.
Unless you're building something that needs a round over or intricate edge detail, and even then sometimes, use plywood, the sawdust isn't literally toxic. The binding agent used in MDF is Formaldehyde based.
I made a 12inch subwoofer box tuned to 32 hz out of 3/4 mdf and i was suprised at the tones when i played sound of silence and decaf white clouds. Was really suprised 😊
I used pockethole screws to hold it together
32hz! Got it tuned nice and low!
greeting here in puerto rico we use pvc panel for making cabinet! i just did a pvc enclosure for a 23 old technics speaker, and sound amazing, but im a cabinet maker not a sound guy, i use 3/4- .65 density rhino pvc panel, i search youtube and didn't find a single video reference , so maybe its a good test for a audio diy guy like you to test!
Do not know much about speaker/sound mechanics, but if you're thinking about MDF, ask your supplier about getting MDO with an MDF core.
Neither Home Depot nor Lowe's can get MDO. Check your local area for regional lumber sources and can even find it at sign shops. Once you use MDO you'll never use MDF/Birch again.
I have gone away from MDF because it is so very hard to handle by myself. However I have a tractor with pallet forks, so my John Deere can do the heavy lifting and my next box for a Resilient Sounds Platinum 18 will be MDF. It will be in the bed of my truck with a blow through so moisture is a concern, so I will have to seal it well.
What is the best way to water-proof MDF?
@@DIYAudioGuy I like polyurethane. You can also use fiberglass resin.
I like BOTH! But Please Try this? Baltic Birch for the Top and Both sides. Cheapo Pine or MDF for the back and Bottom. 3m Spray On Adhesive and Frost King CF1 "No Itch" Natural Cotton Multi-Purpose Insulation, 16 x 1 x 48-Inch and Fill from Parts Express. Make it any size you like and lately I've done more Belled Ports than Vents. I stopped bracing my Normal size Speakers 15 years a LOL! I have Braced large Subs but Nothing Smaller than a Set HPM 150/1500 speaker though.
I encourage the use of bracing but not for the reasons that people think. Wood glue is strong enough, the bracing is there to deal with panel resonance
@@DIYAudioGuy But there are many ways to deadening a Cabinet. I saw one treated with a thin layer of Paint On Truck Bed Liner painted on the insides LOL!
I think High Density Fiber Board is one of the best but stuffing the Inside of enclosers will get the Job Done 90% of the Time. I'm 66 and have built speakers since I was Twelve.
I'm old school MDF FTW
There is no school like the old school.
Something about MDF just sounds awesome kinda like a carpet room for your subwoofer
The best is a combination with mdf idro and birch plywood, mdf 15mm. internally and plywood 15mm. externally glued together!!🔝🔝
That would be quite solid.
I love birch! Low dust, not made w/ formaldehyde, lightweight compared to mdf. With proper bracing birch is my go to! And lately i am able to find it cheaper than mdf! $10 cheaper at my local lumber yard than lowes mdf for a 4'x8' sheet
Edit: unfortunately I am now unable to get baltic birch, as it has been named conflict birch😢
Dang
Not cost efficient, but I love my 1", 18ply, void-free, ApplePly box. 1 cu ft internal volume 29" long 1" wide 7" tall with 45 degree angled corners, and flanged port . Router, scroll saw, and sander for the win on the port flange. Used Keda Royal Blue dye, and lacquer finish.... Sadly Keda is not fade resistant at all.
I bet that looks Absolutly stunting!
@DIY Audio Guy It did, until the fading... Still, I took my time in the building process, and the mitered edge, create a cool look.
I’ve swapped to plywood (Red Oak or Blonde cabinet grade to be exact). I’d rather use MDF than Baltic bc there’s far too many imperfections between the layers.
Cabinet grade plywood has been proven to have less resonance than equal sized MDF.
Agree with all though isnt marine grade birch the best? More plies per thickness? Just asking because im pretty sure that if I asked for cabinet grade birch at home depot the guys going to point to the garbage on the shelf. Cant do that if I spec marine grade.
Your BB must suck then. The stuff I see is about 11 or 12 plys in a solid void free stack for 19mm. It is also cabinet grade.
@@johnlucier5654 Marine grade just means that the glues/resins in the wood resist water exposure to a greater extent than say, exterior ply for sheathing. It doesn't necessarily mean it has a high ply count or a nice face, though it is more likely. I've seen doug fir marine that's only 7 ply for 3/4," while a similar thickness BB has 12.
Similarly, cabinet grade isn't always a bunch of thin plys. Sometimes it's fewer and thicker plys, but still a nice veneer and a good flat face. It depends on the manufacturer and spec of the ply.
@@gahbah274 for most of us whose sources are limited to consumer home improvement stores its pretty much a crapshoot what youll get each time with the only consistency being low quality. Last time I shopped for box materials the only thing appealing at the orange box store was actually maple ply with one nicely finished side. It was hard and strong. Everything else was from foreign countries I couldnt pronounce with lots of voids.
That project (a pair of small bookshelf speakers with some fairly exotic european drivers I got surplus cheap) went on the back burner, when I resume it I might just do it in 1/4" aluminum plate with 8" tube cut half round for the backs. Why not.
I wish I could get Baltic Birch again for $70. (4x8 3/4") Now if I want to buy it, if it's ever in at my local place, it's $130ish for the same 4x8 3/4" Baltic Birch.
I'm not exactly a fan of MDF mostly due to the weight. But it's sorta cheaper and readily available. And easy to cut like you mentioned in the video.
At least you can buy it, it is unobtanium where I am.
Lowe's and home depot will make your cutting up a side or baffle for low price ,very accurate easy to glue, then sand& decorate.
MDF is better because you get double the thickness after a couple of months in humid car enviroment.
😆
I get 3/4 Baltic birch ply for $75 a sheet off the shelf to the public in Sacramento.
I cant find any facts presented here to argue against but for my own personal projects i use marine grade birch for durability, strength and weight. Because time and labor wont cost me in these situations I can apply damping materials and techniques that you wouldnt attempt building a box for someone else.
Also keep in mind resonance and cabinet damping are not equally critical at all frequencies. It is my understanding that its less important in the sub range than low to mid bass. For air movement the cabinet simply needs to be solid and not move. Weight may accomplish this but its not the only way, just the easiest.
You cant get around the fact that virtually all pro sound touring rigs use marine birch for subwoofer enclosure construction. What it loses in dampening is exceeded by durability.
On a side note the best sounding box Ive ever constructed was made of birch plywood with all sides but the soundboard double thick having a 3/4" void I packed under pressure with silica sand of 3 different grits carefully mixed. The soundboard was double thick with dynamat in between. It was for 2 15s, sealed, 2.3 cu each side so 4.6 interior total.
It must have weighed over 300# but it was in a 65 cadillac hearse. Why all the fuss?
The sand jacketed box negated any transfer of mechanical energy from the subs to the vehicle. 100% pure air movement, for the bass up front effect.
I really enjoy watching your videos man i want to build a box for my subwoofer but I'm scared 😂
Go for it!
nice video man. i know you have a video on windisd, bt You should Do more of a lesson on the Port velocity and phase alignment.
Thanks for the idea!
Mdf always seemed to have deeper bass than plywood to me
Mdf is more dense, so better for sq per thickness. Ideally you don't want the material coloring the sound or flexing. Mdf is obviously heavier per thickness though, so a good box will be heavier to lug around, not a big deal with something that already guzzles gasoline.
You use pretty cheap mdf i must say, not sure if available in the US but get something like Medite V313 it will not feel like carboard, and wont split like paper when dropped as easy. also cuts cleaner
Not sure if its unknown, or just not covered. Splitting is easily prevented with pilot holes.
As for dust and MDF. Get ahold of Ultra Light MDF. MUCH more dense, practically NO dust and best of all... HALF the weight of standard MDF and much stronger :)
Great video! First time watcher :)
Yes, you MUST drill pilot holes with MDF.
UL MDF is NOT stronger...And it's just as dusty in my experience. At least with moldings
I build my custom bandpass box in my car with a mix of mdf and fiberglass.
That is the best solution, use the best material for the job and mix them in the same project.
@DIY Audio Guy simple I was lazy and also needed as much air space as possible so I did a 2in thick mdf walls floors and roof with cut outs for the wheel wells put a layer of thin bubble wrap over them and stapled fleece over that coat on 2 part resin added 8 layers doing 45deg turns each of 12oz chop another layer of fleece and 8 more layers of chop sanded with 120 grit add 2 layers of carbon and 3 coats of self leveling resin polished as they are visible in the front chamber of the 6th order with 6x 15" subs on 32kW
It is really great when you live in the Baltic states and Baltic birch is as common as bricks. A full 4' by 8' 3/4" Riga Ply currently costs 66€ including tax. So yeah, never gonna touch MDF.
Great video very informative I've only used mdf
Glad it was helpful!
I build boxes with mdf unless I find some really nice 1" birch. But it's definitely expensive. Last 4 slabs were $160 each, made a beautiful strong box though. Mdf is just easier to work with imo
1 in birch! That's thick. A few years ago I stumbled across some plywood that had quarter inch MDF veneer on it, it was about an inch thick. It was heavy and dense.
@DIYAudioGuy that'd make a great box! I'm going to look for some! Thanks man!
MDF for home and car use.
Birchwood for marine, truck bed and outdoor use.
Yep.
try MDO. Its encapsulated cdx ply. water proof. Signs are usually made of it. I'm curious..
I have heard good things about it. Very dense stuff.
Its easy to get baltic birch plywood if you live in one of the Baltic states.
True
If you are in so cal hit up peterman lumber ...top notch birch cabinet grade
More power is always better.
Thats a great phillosophy.cheers.
I'm debating between regular 3/4'' mdf or 1'' mdf for a box of 70 liters (maybe a bit less) tuned at 36 hz. Would you be able to hear a massive difference between the two acoustically speaking?
The very BEST Wood for your subwoofer is dessard ironwood!
Dude snuck in that Gremlins reference so smoothly...
😎
Birch plywood at home depot, etc. is only the top and back layer veneer, the rest is the layers are some other type of wood.
Yes.
In a old diy speaker book from the 80s they reduce resonance with a sandwich from 2 different thick diameters. 19mm + 13mm. 👍👍🇩🇪 i use 22mm MDF. 14.50€/m2
That is thick.
I just bought lightweight MDF because that's what they had. I am not happy about it, but I don't think I will do anything about it... unless it will be a total disaster for a single 10.
The box has a complex shape. So, I believe it will be strong. I will also put a leftover sheet of sound deadening material on it to hopefully reduce resonant frequencies.
👍
Old video I know. But as someone who's built systems for 13+ years. I feel like mdf is probably the best material if you want to go crazy on details. If you just want a simple enclosure, go for birch and stain it. But if you want show vehicle quality results, mdf is the way to go due to its "craftability"
I agree, one is not better than the other. Pick the material based on what you plan to do with the box.
I coat my WOOD boxes in Epoxy. The outside of the box I usually do 1/8 to a quarter inch on all sides. The insides I just do a thinner coat. You knock on my boxes and dont hear almost anything reverberate through the baffles. Your knuckles will hurt if you knock on it hard enough. Yes, they weigh a ton-almost as heavy or heavier than the MDF boxes I used to admire (until I found out the mdf was making me sick). Just as good, and just as heavy. Very low resonance.
Every time I added bracing to a build the DBs went down. I have built the face three sheets thick however. I've been out of the audio industry for over 20 years though.
Ever seen a box made of Purple Heart? One of the heaviest and densest woods. Even harder to find than Baltic birch
I've seen it on the shelf at the local woodcraft store. In general I don't recommend hardwoods for speaker boxes. Hardwoods will expand and contract as humidity levels change. If you're not careful the box will pull itself apart. Plus natural wood products tend to resonate and color the sound.
I've used MDF and plain ole particle board to build boxes. I prefer using plain ole particle board for several reasons -
1) It doesn't make fine dust that irritates your lungs and is a serious pain to clean up.
2) I don't have to predrill every stinkin hole where a screw goes.
3) It costs half of what a sheet of MDF costs.
4) The boxes I build are just as stiff and "dead" as they would be out of MDF.
5) I don't really care what my boxes look like (neither does my wife thank goodness).
6) I tend to build so many different boxes for a single vehicle it is too costly to use MDF.
7) It covers with carpet just as nice as MDF.
8) You can paint it like MDF, it just needs a bit more prep on the edges.
9) I love showing MDF "purists" that plain ole particle board works just as well.
10) I have yet to have a person want to pay the extra money for MDF when I build them a custom box.
I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying there are multitudes of reasons against saying MDF is the be all end all.
Maybe I should buy a sheet of particle board and give it a try.
You kind-of touched on it, but the fastener blowout with MDF is more often catastrophic. Particularly around the edges, like for the speaker hole.
With plywood, you can just fill a stripped hole with wood glue and toothpicks, sand, then redrill it. The alternating grain in the plies tend to hold it together though. With MDF, it tends to blow out big chunks once a hole gets stressed or overused.
If you're building an MDF box with wood screws holding the speaker, and especially if you are making it to have a recessed flange, I would suggest a layer/ring of plywood inside around the hole for better fastening strength and less chance of blowout for people that swap woofers or take their speakers out somewhat frequently.
That is important. It is always a good idea to drill a pilot hole with plywood, but it is a must-do for MDF.
All good points 👍 Justin keep up the great work
seems you had some high density there splitting.. particle board has it's uses still. but it's only if you're into using epoxy and just need to save weight. basically you just build around it using it like a core material.. cardboard works
The reason we call MDF particle board is because it is. Medium Density Fiberboard, what you're comparing it to is actually LDF, Low Density Fiberboard, more commonly known as Particle board or as I call it, Chipboard, because it's made with wood chips, not sawdust like MDF or fine dust like HDF, google a comparison pic or ask the dude at the hardware to show you the difference.
The name Baltic birch meand that it's birch from one of Baltic countries, which are in northern/eastern Europe. The growing season in there is short which results in tighter wood ring structure making it stronger. It's obviously expensive for americans, because it needs to be hauled distances.
Facts
MDF is great for “sketching” enclosures. But proper, dense Baltic birch (not the cheap crap from the big box stores) is much preferred to MDF from a resonance control standpoint.
Most people grab the birch from home depot and don't seem to realize that it isn't Baltic birch.
@@DIYAudioGuy I know, if I was going to use ply from box store, I’d just by plain ply. Cheaper :) Once boxes get above a certain size, MDF becomes a problem with weight. And moving big, heavy boxes made of MDF, leaves them prone to damage.
Can you do a comparison video between MDF and Baltic Birch. This video you are just speaking about cabinet grade birch ply.
I can't get Baltic Birch so no I can't do that comparison. That was part of the point of the video. Most people going on and on about their birch plywood enclosures aren't actually using Baltic Birch.
Thanks for taking your time to respond. Luckily, I am near about a half dozen different suppliers of BB. Live right outside of St. Louis. I have been doing car audio for nearly 2 decades and built well over 1,000 boxes. I prefer to work with MDF for easy of use but prefer BB for other reasons. Your videos are great and very informative. Keep it up!!!@@DIYAudioGuy
I used to use particle board.
Very well put together. Love It!
Thanks!
I'm a diy guy too.....practice makes perfect sense.
Yep
How about subs built with Baltic Birch on the outside layer, MDF on the inside layer and bracing…
You should take orders for enclosures.
I'm looking to purchase one and can't find to specs. These pre fans are built for specific subs or are just really cheap.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to build boxes for customers.