I have some old Crabtree sockets (which have the unique feature of having 'flush' front (switches do not stick out when switched-off)... 1970s or 1980s maybe... These are also an example of how the switches (seemingly) start to fail after a while. Would be happy/interested to send these for teardown if you would be interested to do so!.
That second socket is the typical rubbish that electrical companies install for new build homes! I decided to replace them all with MK sockets, far better!
thank you John, these video's are a great help. I've been able to draw diagrams how I'm going to wire, and shown these to the sparky. he knew exactly what i've done and where the cables are running from and to.
Many years ago my parents mid fifties built house had a cruddy old bakelite-ish socket with no shutters for the Live and Neutral and I always assumed that the guard system was an evolution of BS1363 but clearly not, as like the socket you took apart the shutter system had most likely failed. Interesting!
You’ve just answered a question I’ve been asking myself for years. About 15 years ago I noticed an MEM Bakelite socket in my mum’s kitchen had no shutters, the brass L&N contacts were visible (more so as the socket was almost at eye level). I always wondered if the design pre-dated a requirement for shutters, or if they had simply gone U/S. Both sides of a double socket were the same, both exposed. I quickly replaced it but have always wondered.
British Sockets and plugs are one of the best engineering wise. The line and neutral cannot be interchanged, the pins have a really large surface and the earth pin is the first to make contact. Even this cheap UK socket looks massive when compared to sockets in other countrys !
Well I only ment the sockets as the rest of the system is not that good: Ring lines and high amp fuses are not a good Idea! But if you omit a fuse it is basically your fault!
+Animarkzero Since when is buying a non compliant work the consumer's fault? Heat cutoff circuit breakers rarely brake becuase it's a switch you can turn back on. The sockets aren't free either. They have pointless switches on. So if you plug your phone in at night and forget to flip the switch, then your phone will be dead the next day. Because of all the safety standards and requirements to comply with the bullshit standard, the outlets are much more expensive. Also the live and neutral pins are the same shape. So if you have a socket without shutters, you just put neutral into live and burned your house down. US plugs are cheaper, if need be have differently shaped pins (there are non polarized pins aswell, so the appliance requires insertion of both pins in any way to pose risk, the ground pin is always round and longer, and if you pay attention then you don't get a zap. Also we have 120v power so you have a better chance of survival if you get zapped. We have the smallest plugs in the world so you don't have one the size of your hand. Also dropping it on the floor means it never lands pins up like the UK. I can rat on the BS standard all day. I can also do it to NEMA DIN Shucko Europlug and every other standard. Because of the ubiquity of all the different standards, there won't be any changing any time soon. Each standard also has it's virtues, but honestly the safest and nicest plugs are German/French plugs/sockets with their Schucko design.
With the fuses I meant that those Ring Lines in the UK are bad because if they are cut open they will have a major problem! The US system in my opinion is the one of the worst in the world. Because:(sorry no offence meant) 1. 120V is a joke when it comes to power transmission in a big house. 2. There are a fuckton of connectors and sockets(compared to i.e Germany) 3.No 3-Phase 400V for most people 4.Heaps and heaps of Power providers that seem to take maintence not as a priority but only profit! 5.The way house installation is done by just nailing the cables inside of your paper thin walls( Where I live those cables are inside pipes which are inside massive brick walls) And having the breaker box outside the house I've heard. Sorry again no personal offence meant! Schuko System is good but has the flaw that Live and Neutral can be turned around. The result is that live is sometimes not switched and therefore the device is still powered while not working!
***** 1. There is no problem with 120v and 50hz is a joke for a big house. 2. There is one socket and 3 connectors, all of them interchangeable no matter what. You have two prong unpolarized, two prong polarized, and two prong one pin polarized grounded. 3. I can't make any comment on that. 4. They are optional, you can get National Grid. The UK also has a lot of service providers. 5. They aren't "Nailed in" Proper wiring is through PVC (Not metal) conduits into right boxes. Wall design also changes based on age. Older houses and newer houses tend to have decent walls, and the 40s-70s era houses have the crap walls. Also that never happens with non polarized things. They just use the power from whatever orientation they are put in with. The only issue with US wiring is that the cables tend to be a bit bigger, and it's slightly unsafe because we don't have shrouds nor shutters on the plugs/sockets.
Would be interesting to carry out a magnet test on the metal to see if it was just electro plated steel. I see you've done the magnet test on some off your later videos.
IF you are fitting a socket into a dry-wall box, there is no metal box for the screws to contact, so the absence of rivets in the screw holes is not a problem
And what if an overly enthusiastic amateur connected the earth lead to the terminal in a metal back box thinking that was earthing the socket then that would make it unearthed? Boooom! :O Although everyone knows the primary earth connection should be to the socket but its belt and braces to have a flying lead to the back box terminal too.
From the faceplate moulding around the earth screw terminal it does look as if it was designed to have a full earth frame from screw to screw. While on the subject of duff earths in sockets, back in '99 when rewiring the garage here I found on one of the old double 13A outlets the earth of one socket wasn't connected - its copper rivet didn't go through the earthing frame. The name on a mould insert was 'MARBOURN' - could that have been Marbo?
Excellent video as always, when you hinted in the back-box earthing video about a 3-letter brand which was poor quality I thought you were talking about LAP (Lousy and Problematic)
***** MK sockets also have different quality standards for made in Malaysia for UK, made in UK for UK and made in Malaysia(Saudi Arabia company HAWA)(site:hawajeddah.com) for Asia only/Asia and UK.Series made specifically for Asia includes these series:Logic Slimline(GXXXX WHI,discontinued),Slimline Plus(SXXXX WHI),Avant(K6XXXX WHI/CHA/CHM/TTA),Metalclad GXXXX ALM SKUs using identical insert modules as Avant,similar design to Logic Slimline too). Obviously,the ones made for UK are better quality than those made for Asia only/Asia and UK. Ones made for Asia have several quirks and lack of features compared to ones made for UK.The disadvantages includes: -Spray painted "on" indication on rockers for ALL models -Inner terminals are not lined up in a row for ALL models -Single earth connection for GXXXXALM Metalclads instead of 2,excluding one in backbox/pattress -significant amount of metallic fragments in backbox/pattress of GXXXALM metalclad -Slimline Plus uses generic shutters activated solely by earth pin -GXXXXALM metalclad,Logic Slimline and Avant uses the older MK shutters that activates without the need of an earth pin.Their tin-foil grade earth strips at the back connecting the 2 screws at the sides to the earth terminal are bendable by hand easily. -GXXXXALM metalclads and Avant series still use bakelite modules having the old oval MK logo molded for some models up till as late as 2014.It is safe to assume that some made in 2015 will still use these bakelite modules. So...not all MK sockets are premium grade.And unfortunately,I only have access to the inferior models,except the Metalclad Plus 20A switches that costs twice as much as all other 20A switches(excluding isolators).And no,there is no legitimate USB BS1363 sockets sold here either.
Great video, thanks. I am curious to know your opinion of those moulded plastic 3-pin "safety covers" for 13A sockets. I've worked in a number of church halls and nurseries where they're extensively used in all unused sockets, ostensibly to stop children pushing things into the sockets. They've always struck me as a terrible idea as they seem deliberately designed to circumvent the safety features designed into the sockets (thus actually creating the problem that they are trying to solve).
Chris Cowley At best they are useless and achieve nothing. They may actually attract the attention of small children, encouraging them to play with the cover and the socket, and for the type with shutters opened by the earth pin, are a tool do do just that, making the safe socket unsafe.
***** Completely crazy when you've got shuttered sockets, as it opens the very safety feature that is there to prevent the problem they are trying to prevent!
JW - many thanks for your educational videos... They give me useful insight into the UK home wiring equipment. In particular, I have enjoyed your disassembly of historic electrical items. A question about the two outlets you disassembled in this video: I was under the impression that outlets such as this were on ring-connected circuits, but I note that the outlets have only one compression terminal for line and one compression terminal for neutral. If this outlet goes on a ring-connected circuit, how are the conductors physically connected to each other and to the outlet.
@Nicolas Cage which will still be made in China. I work for an import company and i know its the buyers who order the cheap crap. The sellers can make it as good as they want as long as they get paid for it. China produces a lot of the so-called best technology just as iPhones, TVs, and have you seen their military lately?
+ChompChompNomNom I can agree with that. My Made In China digital camera survived a one metre drop onto a hard concrete floor, and still functions normally as the day I bought it some five years ago. Genuine China Engineering can be of really good quality - provided that it's correctly specified in the first place.
Hi John, do you know if it is a 'requirement' that the 2 earth connecting terminals in a socket outlet should be interconnected? I have recently come across a smart wifi and usb socket where the 13A sockets are not internally earth connected, but instead have 2 separate terminals, which could easily cause the diy installer to leave one side un-earthed, or break the ring into two legs. Thankyou
Hi John that crappy twin socket, did it have any manufacturers instructions to say that it is not suitable to be installed on plastic boxes as the screws will not be earthed?
is the switch on the socket also a requirement in the British BS1363 standard or not? would be useful here in Europe for electronics these days that are always on... just flip the switch and there off. I have a system like that here but I have all my outlets for my equipment wired through a separate switch that I call the master switch. I guess they didn't add it because most people would just leave it in the on position forever.
C00m7ee There are 2 MK shutters,the old one is the white "twisted" one where it operates independent of the earth shutter.The new new one is explained here:fatallyflawed.org.uk/html/socket_damage.html
That is less than 1 amp total. A 3 amp fuse would do, although they normally have a 13A fuse fitted. The fuse is only there to prevent the cable being overloaded.
my dad unscrewed the neutral and live screws too much and they fell out, i couldn't get them back in because the plug socket is really awkward. So I took of the black bit and left it upside down and all the fucking metal bits weren't even held down they all just went all over the place. Now i have no idea how to put it back together lol
Nice breakdown. Would be good to see a tear down of one of the new USB integrated 13a sockets. MK now do one too some hoping they have some integrity.
I have some old Crabtree sockets (which have the unique feature of having 'flush' front (switches do not stick out when switched-off)... 1970s or 1980s maybe... These are also an example of how the switches (seemingly) start to fail after a while. Would be happy/interested to send these for teardown if you would be interested to do so!.
That second socket is the typical rubbish that electrical companies install for new build homes! I decided to replace them all with MK sockets, far better!
Ohh very nice video! Unfortunately my house has junk sockets like the second one you showed 😢 does not feel very nice inserting a plug!
thank you John, these video's are a great help. I've been able to draw diagrams how I'm going to wire, and shown these to the sparky. he knew exactly what i've done and where the cables are running from and to.
Many years ago my parents mid fifties built house had a cruddy old bakelite-ish socket with no shutters for the Live and Neutral and I always assumed that the guard system was an evolution of BS1363 but clearly not, as like the socket you took apart the shutter system had most likely failed. Interesting!
You’ve just answered a question I’ve been asking myself for years. About 15 years ago I noticed an MEM Bakelite socket in my mum’s kitchen had no shutters, the brass L&N contacts were visible (more so as the socket was almost at eye level). I always wondered if the design pre-dated a requirement for shutters, or if they had simply gone U/S. Both sides of a double socket were the same, both exposed. I quickly replaced it but have always wondered.
British Sockets and plugs are one of the best engineering wise.
The line and neutral cannot be interchanged, the pins have a really large surface and the earth pin is the first to make contact.
Even this cheap UK socket looks massive when compared to sockets in other countrys !
Yet if you omit a fuse you can fry the house.
Well I only ment the sockets as the rest of the system is not that good:
Ring lines and high amp fuses are not a good Idea! But if you omit a fuse it is basically your fault!
+Animarkzero Since when is buying a non compliant work the consumer's fault? Heat cutoff circuit breakers rarely brake becuase it's a switch you can turn back on.
The sockets aren't free either. They have pointless switches on. So if you plug your phone in at night and forget to flip the switch, then your phone will be dead the next day. Because of all the safety standards and requirements to comply with the bullshit standard, the outlets are much more expensive. Also the live and neutral pins are the same shape. So if you have a socket without shutters, you just put neutral into live and burned your house down.
US plugs are cheaper, if need be have differently shaped pins (there are non polarized pins aswell, so the appliance requires insertion of both pins in any way to pose risk, the ground pin is always round and longer, and if you pay attention then you don't get a zap. Also we have 120v power so you have a better chance of survival if you get zapped. We have the smallest plugs in the world so you don't have one the size of your hand. Also dropping it on the floor means it never lands pins up like the UK.
I can rat on the BS standard all day. I can also do it to NEMA DIN Shucko Europlug and every other standard. Because of the ubiquity of all the different standards, there won't be any changing any time soon. Each standard also has it's virtues, but honestly the safest and nicest plugs are German/French plugs/sockets with their Schucko design.
With the fuses I meant that those Ring Lines in the UK are bad because if they are cut open they will have a major problem!
The US system in my opinion is the one of the worst in the world.
Because:(sorry no offence meant)
1. 120V is a joke when it comes to power transmission in a big house.
2. There are a fuckton of connectors and sockets(compared to i.e Germany)
3.No 3-Phase 400V for most people
4.Heaps and heaps of Power providers that seem to take maintence not as a priority but only profit!
5.The way house installation is done by just nailing the cables inside of your paper thin walls( Where I live those cables are inside pipes which are inside massive brick walls)
And having the breaker box outside the house I've heard.
Sorry again no personal offence meant!
Schuko System is good but has the flaw that Live and Neutral can be turned around.
The result is that live is sometimes not switched and therefore the device is still powered while not working!
*****
1. There is no problem with 120v and 50hz is a joke for a big house.
2. There is one socket and 3 connectors, all of them interchangeable no matter what. You have two prong unpolarized, two prong polarized, and two prong one pin polarized grounded.
3. I can't make any comment on that.
4. They are optional, you can get National Grid. The UK also has a lot of service providers.
5. They aren't "Nailed in" Proper wiring is through PVC (Not metal) conduits into right boxes. Wall design also changes based on age. Older houses and newer houses tend to have decent walls, and the 40s-70s era houses have the crap walls.
Also that never happens with non polarized things. They just use the power from whatever orientation they are put in with.
The only issue with US wiring is that the cables tend to be a bit bigger, and it's slightly unsafe because we don't have shrouds nor shutters on the plugs/sockets.
Would be interesting to carry out a magnet test on the metal to see if it was just electro plated steel. I see you've done the magnet test on some off your later videos.
IF you are fitting a socket into a dry-wall box, there is no metal box for the screws to contact, so the absence of rivets in the screw holes is not a problem
And what if an overly enthusiastic amateur connected the earth lead to the terminal in a metal back box thinking that was earthing the socket then that would make it unearthed? Boooom! :O
Although everyone knows the primary earth connection should be to the socket but its belt and braces to have a flying lead to the back box terminal too.
From the faceplate moulding around the earth screw terminal it does look as if it was designed to have a full earth frame from screw to screw.
While on the subject of duff earths in sockets, back in '99 when rewiring the garage here I found on one of the old double 13A outlets the earth of one socket wasn't connected - its copper rivet didn't go through the earthing frame. The name on a mould insert was 'MARBOURN' - could that have been Marbo?
Graham Langley Yes, Marbourn / Marbo are the same, the Marbourn name is from when it was a separate company.
Excellent video as always, when you hinted in the back-box earthing video about a 3-letter brand which was poor quality I thought you were talking about LAP (Lousy and Problematic)
I would like to see a premium quality socket to compare this one to.
Yes, would have been nice to compare these with an MK socket.
***** MK sockets also have different quality standards for made in Malaysia for UK, made in UK for UK and made in Malaysia(Saudi Arabia company HAWA)(site:hawajeddah.com) for Asia only/Asia and UK.Series made specifically for Asia includes these series:Logic Slimline(GXXXX WHI,discontinued),Slimline Plus(SXXXX WHI),Avant(K6XXXX WHI/CHA/CHM/TTA),Metalclad GXXXX ALM SKUs using identical insert modules as Avant,similar design to Logic Slimline too).
Obviously,the ones made for UK are better quality than those made for Asia only/Asia and UK.
Ones made for Asia have several quirks and lack of features compared to ones made for UK.The disadvantages includes:
-Spray painted "on" indication on rockers for ALL models
-Inner terminals are not lined up in a row for ALL models
-Single earth connection for GXXXXALM Metalclads instead of 2,excluding one in backbox/pattress
-significant amount of metallic fragments in backbox/pattress of GXXXALM metalclad
-Slimline Plus uses generic shutters activated solely by earth pin
-GXXXXALM metalclad,Logic Slimline and Avant uses the older MK shutters that activates without the need of an earth pin.Their tin-foil grade earth strips at the back connecting the 2 screws at the sides to the earth terminal are bendable by hand easily.
-GXXXXALM metalclads and Avant series still use bakelite modules having the old oval MK logo molded for some models up till as late as 2014.It is safe to assume that some made in 2015 will still use these bakelite modules.
So...not all MK sockets are premium grade.And unfortunately,I only have access to the inferior models,except the Metalclad Plus 20A switches that costs twice as much as all other 20A switches(excluding isolators).And no,there is no legitimate USB BS1363 sockets sold here either.
Nicolas Cage I'll get a better quality one and do a video on that.
Great video, thanks. I am curious to know your opinion of those moulded plastic 3-pin "safety covers" for 13A sockets. I've worked in a number of church halls and nurseries where they're extensively used in all unused sockets, ostensibly to stop children pushing things into the sockets.
They've always struck me as a terrible idea as they seem deliberately designed to circumvent the safety features designed into the sockets (thus actually creating the problem that they are trying to solve).
Chris Cowley At best they are useless and achieve nothing.
They may actually attract the attention of small children, encouraging them to play with the cover and the socket, and for the type with shutters opened by the earth pin, are a tool do do just that, making the safe socket unsafe.
***** Completely crazy when you've got shuttered sockets, as it opens the very safety feature that is there to prevent the problem they are trying to prevent!
JW - many thanks for your educational videos... They give me useful insight into the UK home wiring equipment. In particular, I have enjoyed your disassembly of historic electrical items.
A question about the two outlets you disassembled in this video: I was under the impression that outlets such as this were on ring-connected circuits, but I note that the outlets have only one compression terminal for line and one compression terminal for neutral. If this outlet goes on a ring-connected circuit, how are the conductors physically connected to each other and to the outlet.
jerome whelan Whn installed on a ring circuit, both conductors go into the same terminal, so 2 in each of the line, neutral and earth terminals.
@Nicolas Cage which will still be made in China. I work for an import company and i know its the buyers who order the cheap crap. The sellers can make it as good as they want as long as they get paid for it. China produces a lot of the so-called best technology just as iPhones, TVs, and have you seen their military lately?
+ChompChompNomNom I can agree with that. My Made In China digital camera survived a one metre drop onto a hard concrete floor, and still functions normally as the day I bought it some five years ago. Genuine China Engineering can be of really good quality - provided that it's correctly specified in the first place.
Even though the inspection hole is no longer required, is it still permitted to make a plug with an inspection hole?
Hi John, do you know if it is a 'requirement' that the 2 earth connecting terminals in a socket outlet should be interconnected? I have recently come across a smart wifi and usb socket where the 13A sockets are not internally earth connected, but instead have 2 separate terminals, which could easily cause the diy installer to leave one side un-earthed, or break the ring into two legs. Thankyou
Hi John that crappy twin socket, did it have any manufacturers instructions to say that it is not suitable to be installed on plastic boxes as the screws will not be earthed?
No instructions of any kind.
15:17 LOL - "...style that chips and breaks...when you... bang things... or, uh... drop it on a carpet."
is the switch on the socket also a requirement in the British BS1363 standard or not? would be useful here in Europe for electronics these days that are always on...
just flip the switch and there off. I have a system like that here but I have all my outlets for my equipment wired through a separate switch that I call the master switch.
I guess they didn't add it because most people would just leave it in the on position forever.
+parkeerwacht Not a requirement. You can still get unswitched sockets, although the switched version is the most common.
Your video is very helpful for me😊
Hi my on and off switch dosent press in , what’s happen ?
The question most want to know , how many 600watt hps hid lights could you run on a twin socket 👀🤣🤣
not sure if I missed it, but did you say what make the old brown socket was? Looks like a very early one. Probably done alot of work in its time.
'Ediswan' on the back of it. Probably made in the 1950s.
not bad for 60 years old then, I guess it's worn out. They had their money's worth.
how do the shutter on the MK one work? I thought they used my Live and neutral to open the statures
C00m7ee
There are 2 MK shutters,the old one is the white "twisted" one where it operates independent of the earth shutter.The new new one is explained here:fatallyflawed.org.uk/html/socket_damage.html
Hi john can you tell me what amp fuse should i use on a plug for a powerstrip max load 6 x 140 mA
That is less than 1 amp total. A 3 amp fuse would do, although they normally have a 13A fuse fitted. The fuse is only there to prevent the cable being overloaded.
my dad unscrewed the neutral and live screws too much and they fell out, i couldn't get them back in because the plug socket is really awkward. So I took of the black bit and left it upside down and all the fucking metal bits weren't even held down they all just went all over the place. Now i have no idea how to put it back together lol
Chips and breaks when you drop it on the carpet 😆
ediswan were a good make
Top video
Hah, I'd rather use the old socket than that dodgy new one.
HLM: Hideously Lowquality Manufacturing LLC of Guangzhou
***** A subsidiary of cao ni ma guilo laogai state enterprise corporation.
hideous liability manufacturing
Single pole switched sockets should be banned in my opinion 💡
RECYLE THE BRASS OUT OF IT.
You talk too much bro