South Bend Lathe Taper Attachment TIPS 700 tubalcain
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- Опубліковано 24 жов 2020
- In this video. I demonstrate HOW TO TURN A TAPER WITH A TELESCOPIC TAPER ATTACHMENT
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"Plain vs Telescopic Lathe Taper Attachments TIPS 561 tubalcain"
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#taperturning#taperattachment#telescopingtaperattachmentsouthbendheavy10 - Наука та технологія
Wouldn’t be good modern machines without “good old school” machinist and teachers. Loved it.
Yes
I inherited a South Bend 9A lathe from my Dad. I only learned the very basics from him and this channel has helped me get going by myself. Thanks for taking the time to make them.
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Love that “old school” manual machining.
Nice demo of the taper attachment. They are a great addition to any shop.
THANK YOU...for sharing. Enjoyed.
I did thousands tapers in my career. All in the marine industry. 3/4 inch per foot is standard for most marine shaft tapers . is .125 inches of taper on a scale over 4 inches of travel. taper attachment are the way to go. The lathe I used was in inches. need to measure anyway when changing to a taper as the angle is important. metric is the same. i found some discrepancy in recommendations. so i preferred to have the customers sample. Also not all tapers are standard. Some are special. Only use the compound for cutting a taper cut depth.. never the carriage. And true. do account for slop by moving the carriage past the slop. this is one area i am very knowledgeable. i learn a lot from this UA-cam account but tapers are my specialty
Thanks Mr Pete. I did view 561 again, now everything makes sense. I have a 10L SB with the telescoping taper attachment.
Great video, thanks Lyle
Thanks, Lyle 😊. I've been working on making a similar style taper attachment for my old Atlas, so getting a good look at the southbend version was very helpful 😁. Cheers!
thank you for taking the time to explain.
Lyle; I love videos like this where you're actually working on a project. :-)
Lots of good tips! Thanks.
Good morning Mr. Pete, Works like my 13" south bend. Good video now its coffee time.
Superb explanation!
Good to see the 10 heavy in action. Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
Really interesting and informative Mr. Pete...love that SB 10"
Had that same model lathe in the enginehouse at the shortline railroad I "grew up" on. At some point it was identified that we really needed to get the taper turning attachment for use on machining steam locomotive components. I am pretty sure it was because the crankpins for the main rod were worn with a slight taper, and when the rod brasses were rebored the Master Mechanic wanted to match the taper as in-situ turning of the crankpins on the locomotive was beyond the capabilities (and budget) of our operation.
It's good to see a 10" South Bend set up just like the one I was learned on.
Appreciate the breakdown and instruction on the SB taper attachment, I will definitely be using it in my SB 13. Thanks Tubalcain.
Mr Pete, I found you looking for a how to sharpen a drill bit. You were a cut above anything out there. You are a true teacher, and all your videos are a pleasure to watch. You make a 35 year career electrical engineer wonder if I missed a calling as a machinist, as you make it look so simple and satisfying.
Thank you very much. Thank you for the compliment and thank you for watching
Mrpete222 you are an awesome instructor. I really enjoy your videos!
Thanks again for the videos,you answered a lot of questions that I. Had🤗
Thanks Mr Pete.
Thanks Lyle
Thanks for the information,very interesting.
Very helpfull I just got and fully restored a 14 1/2 south bend with 8ft bed I love your videos thank you for taking the time
Thanks
Thank you Mr Pete.
I have that machine and am in the process of restoring it to usable condition. I am looking forward to using the taper attachment, so this will be a tremendous help. I will also be watching the other video that you made. Thank you for continuing to teach.
Thank you for watching
I have always used #2 method, great video
Thank you Mr Pete. Great description, and I appreciate your skills in describing the details in usage of the taper attachment. My Colchester Student lathe came second-hand with the taper attachment, but without the clamp for the lathe bed. I guess making the clamp will be a project for me, to enable making tapers in the future.
Yes, make yourself a clamp. Luckily, it is the simplest part of the entire unit
Nicely done Mr Pete. Identical to my SB 13
Mr Peterson, this is excellent ....thank you very much....I just purchased a 13" Toolroom Southbend with the taper attachment.....so anxious to use this information....cheers from Florida, Paul
Thanks for another great edutainment video. I have a taper attachment with my Craftsman lathe that I bought in the early 1970s and I have used it once. I could probably skipped that purchase.
Hello Mr. Peterson,
I have been thinking about getting a taper turning attachment for my Myford... so this video was of particular interest... Thank you.
Take care
Paul,,
Excellent primer on the taper attachment...
Thanks
Crystal clear
very cool! ive got a taper attachment mounted to my warner & swasey 4A hexagonal turret lathe's tool post apron, I havent had the chance to use it much, we really only do simple drilling operations with the hexagonal turret tailstock.
This was very interesting though!
Got one, just like yours but haven't used yet. Greatly appreciate this tutorial, like all your other videos. Please keep them rolling. I wish, I could have you as a teacher or even a neighbor.
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A week late for me, Mr. Pete! I had to turn my first taper on my SBL 13” just the other day. Took me a little time to figure it out, but we got it. Not surprising, the machinery’s handbook a formulas in there for calculating the taper if the final dimensions are known. Surprisingly though, that particular formula was fairly straight forward, unlike some of the formula in that old book. Mine is an early 40’s volume. Seemed fitting after restoring this old 1945 SB to near factory new condition.
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good lesson
Thank you so much make more south bend videos please
Need one for my Logan, looks like a project to put on my list
I've been working on one for a year, wasn't able to get many pointers here on you tube. Good luck.
I worked on a Ward turret lathe which had a taper turning attachment. It was in the 60's. We made cranes and excavators . . We had a franchise with an American company called Ransom and Rapier. It was later called NCK Rapier (Newton Chambers Koering ).
The top half of the crane rested on a set of large taper rollers which revolved on top of what we called the car- body. It was very skilled work.
Thanks
Outstanding video...Thanks again. I always learn so much from you it is GREAT...I am a retired millwright and have set up a pretty nice shop her at home...Boy has the bug bit..Have a great time in my home shop.I am a tool junkie anyway but i blame you and my father the most LOL...LOL Thanks again......Phil.
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we had 4 south bend 9" in high school shop class, 2 with taper attachments. one of our mandatory projects was a bird call made from aluminum and wood. it was our choice whether to use the compound or the taper attachment to cut the taper. extra points to use the taper attachment and hit the dimensions on the print.
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Great video thank you. I just purchased a southbend just like this. Would love more tutorial videos on this lathe.
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I have a telescopic taper attachment on my South Bend 13" lathe.
Now all I have to do is get the lathe off of the heavy duty wheeled platform I have it on so I can move it around, get the electric hooked up, clean the lathe, get a good belt for it, clean up the chuck so it will work, grind a couple of HSS bits...
And on and on...
Thanks for your time on the channel!
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Thank you Mr. Pete.
I have this exact lathe and tapper attachment. I been unable to figure the taper attachment.
The screenshot of the manual showed a screw that has become hidden on mine from years of use.
I'm thankful for all you do here on UA-cam. Please know you're greatly appreciated!
Update, (after watching your other video [Henry vid, lol]), seems I have a malfunctioning attachment. My slide will not release. I bought the big 10 last year and a restoration is desperately needed.
Thanks again Mr. Pete!
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Further update, (for those who have a need to know), the taper attachment is now functioning. The bottom gib had corroded to the dovetail slide. (There are two gibs, upper and lower).
Good video! I'm building a taper attachment for my logan 820. My design needs for the cross feed nut to be released in order to slip for a taper. I thought it would be an easy build, but I'm still designing and build after a year.
Colchester moves the nut to the TTA and has a screw that slides on splines back to the handwheel to still offer drive and power feed.
docs.google.com/document/d/1t2DZ43oU_AH04M_QVSwTWx6uQWQwQcMU6Nt2mKRtEnE/edit#heading=h.jr8lb6kas02a
The taper attachment on my Monarch works a little different. Interesting to see the different ways manufacturers accomplished the same thing.
Great, now I want one. My 9a has the carriage piece but nothing else.
Back in the day we had shop classes. Stupidest thing ever for the well being of America was to drop shop. Anyway, I had shop from 7th to 12th grades. Moved from a Rockford to the South Bend in 10 grade and used the taper attachment. The greatest regret I have from a rather wonderful life was not continuing with machine work and setting up a home shop. I blame Viet Nam for wanting to have a more foot loose and adventurous lifestyle. Damn hard to carry a lathe around when you are preventing moss growth. But hey, there is lot to said for the man who can carry everything he needs to make a living in his head.
I have the tele taper attachments on my 10L heavy and my FOURTEEN. These are very good attachments. Amazingly expensive if you want to buy a used one on eBay. The only annoyance is that unlike some others, there is no vernier on the ends, and the read outs are not adjustable. I ended up maki g an indicator that can be adjusted instead. Unfortunately, I had to drill and tap two #6 holes. If everything isn’t perfect, the numbers are slightly off. There is supposed to be a cover to cover the slot under the lock at the back of the carriage, but I’ve never found one, so I made one out of 18 gauge SS.
Good, Pete. Just to remind people that with tapers, it’s extremely important to have the cutting tool exactly on the centerline, or you won’t get the taper you’re going for.
Thank you. The cover was missing on mine ever since I owned it. Never got around to making a new one. I think I announced in one of my videos, that the tool must be on center for a true taper
For Morse or other tapers, I have put a known good taper such as a drill or an endmill holder between centers and set my taper attachment with a dial indicator swept back and forth across the known accurate taper....Takes much of the guess work out of it....I have cut Morse external and internal tapers, along with 40 and 50 std "quick release" tooling in this way.. Cheers from Louisiana
Thank you, I did that in a video along time ago. But it might be in one of my video courses
My 9-inch South Bend is like that haven't really used that part of it yet I've had mine for 30 years and it was old when I got it
In video ads are back Lyle. There were 4 during this excellent video.
Thank you for being my watchdog. I just fixed that. I’ll swear that I did it yesterday, but I had Unchecked the pre-roll and left the mid roll on. I am angry at Google for doing this
@@mrpete222 - Anymore "being angry at Google", is like being angry with the government. Kinda scary that we are "forced" into eating their crap sandwiches. File this under, "Problems the Amish don't have".
Oh! While I am here, last night I saw a steam tractor video that was posted last month that you and your tractor buddies will truly enjoy.
150 HP Case pulling a 36 bottom plow:
ua-cam.com/video/xU_fshxE3Gk/v-deo.html
I'll look after you Lyle!
Hi Mr. Pete, long time viewer, first time caller. You are truly one of my heroes and I could never thank you enough for the knowledge and wisdom you have selflessly gifted over the years. 🙏 If you could quickly explain how the taper attachment works in conjunction with the cross feed nut? I was a bit confused how the slide is able to trace the taper freely simply by locking it and not visibly being disengaged from the feed screw - Thanks and have a great day!
Watch my video where are you compare a telescoping taper attachment with a plain taper attachment
Very neat, what a brilliantly simple little mechanism, the telescoping screw. Thanks for the extra credit assignment!
Very nice. I have a telescopic on the LeBlond. And I've yet to use it. I just bought a taper attachment for the Logan. Still not installed....
Luckily my lathe(Monarch) came with a taper attachment that's seldom used but it's there when I need it!
cutting with a center and the tailstock helps a lot with deflection especially when maintaining a tolerance within .005 thousands
Thanks
Mr Pete, I am unclear as to how the crossfeed lead screw / control is isolated from the taper mechanism, but can still be used to adjust the depth between passes.
Me too also
Look at the other video.(561)
It's not explicitly explained, but it's not difficult to get when the plans for the internals are shown.
@@stoneomountain2390 Thanks
Never to presume to "teach the teacher" but I have cut reasonably accurate tapers by dialing in the exact center of my sine bar, and then indicating the travel of my tool bit off of my test taper that I want to copy. The trick is to get the taper you want to copy on a spindle and centered. Just an observation if you ever need one exact.
Thanks
Love my South Bend lathes... I have a 13 and a 10K. No taper attachments though.
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@Tommy Salami Its such a cruel World.
usei esse aparelho em um torno WARNER & SWASEY de 1929 de fabricado.
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Fantastic!!! Video mrpete! Your SB 10L (or Heavy?) looks Spot on to my SB tool room lathe with that very same Taper attachment I have tried turning a taper with it and it seems to works just fine (as far as my limited knowledge ) I wonder if mine could be a 10L? I am off to watch your other videos on Tapers!! BYW my Quick change gear box plate with the speeds and feeds is so badly
banged up it is not readable and I can't seem to find a reproduction for it could you take a very short video of the one on yours possibly? if not I understand and as Always Two Thumbs up Sir !!!!
Mr. Pete didn't you say no long sleeve shirts back in shop class?
I was wondering to myself
" What witchery be this telescopic thingamajig?"
Because nothing is telescoping, and the cross slide is working.
#561 cleared that bit of confusion up.
Thanks MR.Pete I have this attachment laying around and had no idea how to use it.I have learned so much from you,only started machining at 47 ys old last year. I have a so.bend #9.Might you know why the rpm ingresses when the tool touches the work piece ?
Sorry, do not
I bought the South Bend 9A with a taper attachment but I didn't get the rest of the parts for the attachment. What I got was the saddle part and I've no idea what the other parts are that I need to finish it are those something I'm going to have to buy or can I make them?
Mr Pete love your videos , please be carful wearing those long sleeves around that machine. I image it pretty cold . just thinking about your safety .
I have an Axelson 16 with a taper attachment but the bar and way hold down is missing! Axelson parts very hard to find!
OMG How die you know
I just bought the parts to add this to my southbend
I only have 2 parts left to make or find the clamp and rod at the back of the attachment
thanks
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I’ve got a question I recently purchased one of these lathes with the taper attachment but it’s missing the bed clamp I’m sure I can make it as I have a milling machine but what I’m wondering about is could you get me some of the dimensions I’d like to try to make it look as original as I can
So, this year I bought the sliding taper attachment for my Grizzly Mill. It was crap, so I ended up removing it. So, for long tapers, I’m stuck offsetting my tailstock. Any chance you would do a video on that. 🙏 I think I know what to do, but I would rather learn from the master. 🙇
I did some of those videos on tapers, but they are in my video courses. Thank you very much for watching
I feel I am in your shop with you.Please tell your domestic arranger I like tea and chocolate biscuits, I assume you have coffee and cookies.As always a brilliant way to make a complicated task easy, understandable,or at least achieveable.
Believe it or not, I never heard of chocolate biscuits. My wife makes pecan coffee cake. I love it warm with lots of butter. She hasn’t bake cookies in 25 years, I have to settle for store-bought. But that’s why I am so skinny
@@mrpete222 That is the reason why I need to lose a pound or two.Not only are a good teacher in the world of metal but able to tell us a bit about diet. Best wishes from Devon.
Mr Pete, have you ever cut a tapered thread, using half nuts and taper attachment? It would make a good subject to cover. Cheers
Never have done that
I have a taper on my South Bend 14 and I have no idea how to use it lol. I'm too afraid to tinker with it and crash it
How do you unlock the sqaer spindel? because this compount slides without turning the spindel.
Mr. Pete, is that a Cushman chuck on the S.B?
What about adjusting the gibs ? you can add taper to your cut when you adjust the gib or adjust it to run true with no tapering..the ways and gibs control taper, but i dont see any comments on it , i musta had another senior moment while day dreaming the golden years, never happened, we got taken LOL
I stand corrected. I wasn't paying attention to the picture of the manual.
Next video must be how to taper a matching bore?
Good evening Mr Pete, please tell me if the 9” and 10k saddle can work with the heavy 10” apron
I do not know for sure, but I would say, probably not
Checking the accuracy of the taper is a real problem while it is still mounted in the lathe.
Morning sir, do you have to disable the cross feed nut? I’m wondering 💭 how it follows the taper if the cross feed screw is still engaged?
As to your question the feed screw on the telescopic taper attachment is two pieces. The back half is the feed screw and the front half is a hollow tube with a key. There is a keyway cut the length of the feed screw. This allows the two pieces to slide when the binding bolt is tightened. To cut in a straight manner the taper bar should be set straight.
@@brucetuckey7909 Thanks!
I see how that works now that you have described how it works.
When the taper attachment is moving the cross feed, the non threaded part of the screw is sliding within a tube with a key on the keyway.
And when the cross feed handle is moving the cross feed, the screw is being turned by the handle via the key and keyway, and the threaded part of the screw pulls/pushes the cross feed.
Any plan to make a video for the mini lathe owners, "how to make this taper attachement for a mini lathe"?
I do not own a mini lathe
@@mrpete222 Ay, ay, ay. What a pity.
Building a plain taper attachment isn't too difficult.There are a few videos on how to make one. As Lyle says the only drawback to the plain taper attachment is that you have to feed off the compound and you have to release (unbolt) the cross feed nut when you use the attachment.
Unless you really need a taper attachment, I wouldn't go to the trouble of building or finding one. In 50+ years in the shop I've never needed one. Any time I've needed to cut a long taper I've just used the compound and picked up where I'd been cutting before. Perfection in the surface wasn't required because the work was going to be heat treated and the taper was finish ground on the center grinder. Even if you are making a Morse taper shank that isn't hardened you still have to blue it up and fit it to the mating socket by filing and polishing it no matter the method used to turn the taper.
Cheers from NC/USA
I totally agree. Really the only time in my life that I needed a taper attachment, is when I make a video about taper attachments, LOL
So if your taper attachment says 24" is that referring to its length of cut ?
Hellooo!
You might want to emphasize that the cross feed screw must be disconnected when using the taper attachment or mechanical carnage will occur. This is something that the inexperienced may overlook.
It does not, watch the video again
Lyle I am confused between the first and 2nd methods of tapering on this unit. For I don't see the difference whether the cutting head is angled or straight. Can you embellish on that; so I can "see" what you are achieving between the 1st method and the 2nd method. I just don't see it.
Please help a very old man (going on 89) to understand it. 'Preciate it!
Thanks kind Sir.
1st method uses the "x-axis" regular cross slide to change your depth of cut. You have to engage and disengage the locking lever on the taper attachment every time you go to make another pass (since your compound is usually set at an angle, any adjustment wouldn't be thou for thou). The 2nd method sets the compound at 0 degrees, effectively making the compound a 2nd "x-axis" feed (the same as moving the cross slide), so you don't have to mess with the locking lever on the taper attachment every time you go to take another pass, you can just dial in the compound
8:38 You know I never got why they call it machining, they should call it set up working :D
So you're a machinist, if you need this tool why not build one instead of buying one? Would it just take so long that your time/materials would be worth more than the cost of the tool? I'm a programmer, sometimes I use tools (like my web browser, libre office, vlc, code editor) that someone else built for the same reason.
Yes, it’s about the same thing
Another correction !
10:00 "I'm going to
loosen up the compound and set it for zero so it's perfectly perpendicular to the work"
But as the work's at 10°, that's what you should set the compound for - that way the compound position dial will show exact depth of cut. (or in your case as it seems your TTA turns a taper half the angle of that set, 5° !)
Setting the compound at Zero makes it feed straight in the same as the cross-slide feed would be if you were using the compound for angle/taper turning, or turning between offset centers.
If you set the compound at 30 degrees and moved the cross-slide in for .010 depth of cut you would get .010 depth of cut when feeding the compound, or at least your start point and end point would be .010 (or .020) smaller diameter as intended.
If you set the compound to match your taper attachment angle, yes it would be perpendicular to the cut, but your final dimension would be off because of not feeding in 90 degrees to the center-line. The more passes you take, the farther off you would end up on your diameters.
My lathe (Colchester Student) doesn't have a cross slide clamp on the TTA. The way it works, the normal fixing for the cross slide screw at the handwheel end is removed and the (end float) fixing occurs at the TTA end. A different cross slide screw is used - one with sliding splines to pick up the rotational drive from the handwheel (or power feed).
It is also limited to 10° max over 12" length.
docs.google.com/document/d/1iCwiQ52QTBmwQ7EJvUa6ffPkiovLUBgTfmCuVmldX70/edit#heading=h.94wp0ufcf13y
13:10 IMPORTANT POINT - what angle is marked on the TTA ? Yours goes up to 20°, mine goes up to 10° - and I'd like to think mine is in whole degrees and yours is in half-degrees. You set yours for 10 and got an angle of 5. I think I'd need to set mine to 5 to get an angle of 5 !
Well this video's 'made' some work for me ! The question is are the degrees marked on the TTA whole degrees or halves ? If the cross slide is thous radius and not thous diameter, then I'd expect even more that the 2° mark would give an included angle of 4°. My (M) taper experience has always been true angle (1·5°) rather than the included value of 3. Therefore I'd naturally aim to set my TTA to 1·5°.
Since yours goes to "20°" and mine goes to 10° - again, I wondered if yours is the included value and mine isn't ! My manual (docs.google.com/document/d/1iCwiQ52QTBmwQ7EJvUa6ffPkiovLUBgTfmCuVmldX70/edit#heading=h.94wp0ufcf13y)
doesn't make that clear either. So the answer is for me to measure it - and having worked out tan 8° ~ 0.14 thou per inch, I decided to use 8° as my test angle. Then it all went wrong !
I discover my TTA adjustment knob is just about seized ! I can turn it just over 1 rev then it goes tight and I need tools on it - which feels quite wrong ! So I've got it off for dismantling ! The swivel part is totally free - so it must the the knob screw & nut where it's gone tight - notably inaccessible for lubricating - maybe that's the clue to the problem !
Mr pete I need to ask you a question not related to this video. I recently bought a Clausing 12×48 lathe and I need to purchase a phase converter for it. I noticed on your Clausing you have the small converter, my motor is 2hp, are they reasonably easy to install? Is there anything special I need to pay attention to? Thanks
Who is used to install. But you do need 220 V. It will come with a simple wiring diagram
@@mrpete222 ok yes I have the 220 volt outlet. It came with a large box type converter but it didn't work and after I inspected it the circuit board had a burnt spot. I looked on eBay and they have everything from rotery phase converters well over 1000.00 but I seen yours for about 100.00 so thanks!
Is this where we mark your work ?
0:23 You lose marks for erroneosly calling the top/compound slide a 'rest'.
Sure would be nice to see a "Threading on a taper" video.......so much incorrect information out there on that topic.
Yes
Check out Mr Pete's buddy Randy Richards on his channel for a video about cutting pipe threads on the lathe from 9/18.