The Helper Instruments Company made those units for Motorola. It's the same circuit as their later 3 transistor models as opposed to their earlier 2 transistor units like the S101. Thanks for another well done video.
Thank you Mike. that was perfect. I have used a lot of sinad meters back in my commercial radio days. The main one I used was an EF Johnson branded one. Have not seen one since. Up until a few months ago I used the built in sinad in my IFR but now it has quit on me. Really not going to take the time right now to trouble shoot it. I think by doing a build up of this unit will not only help me but help others to build the unit with modern day parts. May do two versions, though hole and smd. Why I wanted the see the actual circuit trace layout. Man that could almost be placed on a flat bed scanner and scanned. Then simply reverse negative image and resize to scale........ Once I get the layout designed in software I will offer it on my site.Thanks Mike for taking the time to do this and explain in great detail on how important this piece of equipment is.Thumps up.
I guess it could just be scanned and a reverse image used to duplicate it. Like you said a SMD version might be nice. Could stick the whole circuit in a box only big enough to hold the meter movement.
I have a SINADDER 3 as a backup here (had a plain version but sold it at a hamfest last year). Sent Buddy the manual recently and just got done taking some pix for him too. I had a hard time at first wrapping my head around the SINAD measurement until I realized that it's simply modulating the signal with a 1kHz tone, the meter then strips the tone out and measures what's left and the lowest RF signal that produces 12dB of "quieting" for the lack of a better term is the measurement you want. Gosh, I thought the piece might be for a dissatisfied customer but I'd guess Mike doesn't have many of those! ;-)
I don't know how but I have never owned a SINADER branded one. I have a Keighley DMM that takes SINAD measurements, my communications test sets and a couple of these Motorola units. Guess I really don't need another.
Love it! Expecting unwelcome visitors? The Ruger on the table! Off topic a bit but I have a Ruger American Rifle. The lack of after market stocks and no bottom metal is a problem only Boyds makes one and last I checked they do not list it on their site. I have a Ruger American Rifle and I used it to build a new F-Class rig. I think it will be the next Remington 700 in terms of using it's action to build high end tactical competition rigs and F-Class on a budget. It is beefier than the 700 and needs less machining to true it up. It is CNC machined from the OEM from bar stock no casting for the receiver or bolt body. No need to true the reciever face because their is no shoulder between the barrel and the receiver. Unlike the 700 and a lot of other 2 lug rotating bolts it does not need to be sleeved or double sleeved because the bolt body is and bolt head are one huge piece so their is not 20lbs. of side thrust when the lugs are seated and cocked. The Ruger American was on Clearance at my Walmart for $169 it was in 243 Win when I got it but now it is wearing a cut rifled Brux barrel in 260 Remington. It is not a pretty action for sure but once it has 1/3 the after market of the Remington or Mauser it will be a real Diamond I think!
Commsprepper get the Motorola SAC-3000 if you can find it. Has a 1 kHz generator (with deviation adjustment), triple scale meter (dB, percentage and volts) for rated audio/20 dB quieting, distortion and SINAD. The one I found in the office was made around 1980. Sometimes it’s nice reading the needle compared to the bar on my R2670.
my hp8921a has it built in. If you cant figure it out just use the pistol. We had a couple of those at Texas Communications. We used them a lot before we got the HP's
Probably because there isn't much to show. Just hook a set of leads from the meter to the speaker on the radio and adjust for the highest meter reading. As sensitivity increases while adjusting you may need to decrease the signal into the radio.
Hi Mike. I heard you mention you had some SINAD Meters sitting around collecting dust. If you are willing to part with one, I'd like to buy it. Please let me know.
hi mike, could you post sharp picture's from the top and bottom of the pcb, in the schematic there are some components not clear where to connect, if you have sharp picture's i can backtrace them. grt. pd2shb
Hi mike, I know this video is a good few years old but i have desperately looking for a sinad meter of any make for some time now, I dont suppose you would not got a spare that you do not want and could sell my way? Paul UK
very educational mike. :-) so.... cool ol pistola on the table there m8 ;-) 9mm? just a thought, how about some vids on wire/cable management. it seems to me manufactures dont give a hoot about it, if it's ham, cb, am/fm radios etc it's the one thing that's skipped over by everyone,
talking about wires &cables inside radios. it seems to be a neglected thing unless you get a rats nest that some screwball left behind once it's been golden drivered
I've been loosely looking for one of these since I started watching your vids....albeit I don't work transceivers very often, this should be able to help tune up broadcast band radios correct? I like this Motorola, nice and small would be perfect for my tiny workbench....the trolling begins! Thanks Mike for going over the how to's, I appreciate it...I see tools I need and or have and may not know how to use properly...could you do a basic video like this on signal tracing? Buddy recently did one and it was great, but he didn't show hand placement in the device. Thats a nice pistol shaped screwdriver! ~Jack, VEG
Their great for any type of receiver. I would keep an eye on Buddy's videos. He is planning on making one so maybe you could do the same. It is a rather simple device.
I'd love if someone who owns one of these could PLEASE hi-res scan the back side of the board so we can all etch a PCB and build our own SINAD meters. They are now prohibitively expensive!
I've not seen a P85 sinad adjuster in some time. I too, keep my Colt 1911 in handy reach at my bench, for those real stubborn repairs. It certainly can improve S/N ratios.
+Enjoying The Sun 577-Jersey Customs There's at least 2 loaded guns in every room of my house and at least one on my hip at all times. Heck I have 2 rifles in the upstairs bathroom. A 17HMR for pesky chipmunks when they raid the bird feeders and a 270 Winchester for long range groundhog removal. The 17HMR can easily take a groundhog but once you get past 250 yards those tiny bullets are pushing the limit.
+B Blod Honestly don't know if any stand alone units are made these days. You can find used ones made by Helper Instruments (called a SINADDER) or ones made by Motorola on eBay all the time. Every communications test set I have has it built in.
MikesRadioRepair Just checked them out. One for $150 and turns on but doesn't work. Since there are no photos of the interior, I'll shy away from that one. If you have an extra one, I'll buy it. Also, what's happening with your Electronics course. You had a drawing for the course material. Is it available for purchase?
B Blod It's not going to be a pay for it course. It's going to be free. I am working on the website for it now, it's just not published yet. It's coming, just taking longer than I planned to get it started.
At least one gun in every room. Some have 5 or more. Heck, I have three rifles in one second floor bathroom for varmint control. I do a lot of shooting. I fired close to 20,000 rounds this year alone.
MikesRadioRepair I don’t blame you mike. Unfortunately we have very strict gun controls here in the U.K. and I don’t think it would be worth the hassle of trying to get a firearm license. I do have several high end air rifles and some very good glass sat on the top. I used to target shoot to a high standard. I used to shoot all day Saturday and Sunday for about 10 years and did many national competitions. but my eyes are a bit tired now at the end of the week. Have been doing lots of rat shooting recently. I don’t actually like killing anything but I have chickens and that attracts rats. Watching the rats is actually more entertaining than the chickens. They have a fantastic life until I shoot them in the head. My garden is like the rat equivalent of Logan’s Run. My CB repairing is coming on well, but I’m still waiting for my SAMs to arrive for that Kraco. If you get a minute stop by my channel and say hello. Any tips or trick on my projects would be real appreciated. Thanks Mike best regards Chris.
That's my daily carry piece. My old holster wore out and the and my spare has the slide digging into my side when I'm setting down. Got to go holster shopping for a new more comfortable one.
Makes for an excellent deterrent for anyone thinking of breaking in and taking your gear as well...........shame our stupid do gooders here In Australia can't let us have our pistols as concealed carry over here.
And if that fails I can just set it out back on the range backstop and run a few 50BMG or 338 Lapua rounds through it. :-) If all else fails run a few Raufoss Mk 211 rounds through it.
The Helper Instruments Company made those units for Motorola. It's the same circuit as their later 3 transistor models as opposed to their earlier 2 transistor units like the S101. Thanks for another well done video.
Thank you Mike. that was perfect. I have used a lot of sinad meters back in my commercial radio days. The main one I used was an EF Johnson branded one. Have not seen one since. Up until a few months ago I used the built in sinad in my IFR but now it has quit on me. Really not going to take the time right now to trouble shoot it. I think by doing a build up of this unit will not only help me but help others to build the unit with modern day parts. May do two versions, though hole and smd. Why I wanted the see the actual circuit trace layout. Man that could almost be placed on a flat bed scanner and scanned. Then simply reverse negative image and resize to scale........ Once I get the layout designed in software I will offer it on my site.Thanks Mike for taking the time to do this and explain in great detail on how important this piece of equipment is.Thumps up.
I guess it could just be scanned and a reverse image used to duplicate it. Like you said a SMD version might be nice. Could stick the whole circuit in a box only big enough to hold the meter movement.
I have a SINADDER 3 as a backup here (had a plain version but sold it at a hamfest last year). Sent Buddy the manual recently and just got done taking some pix for him too. I had a hard time at first wrapping my head around the SINAD measurement until I realized that it's simply modulating the signal with a 1kHz tone, the meter then strips the tone out and measures what's left and the lowest RF signal that produces 12dB of "quieting" for the lack of a better term is the measurement you want. Gosh, I thought the piece might be for a dissatisfied customer but I'd guess Mike doesn't have many of those! ;-)
I don't know how but I have never owned a SINADER branded one. I have a Keighley DMM that takes SINAD measurements, my communications test sets and a couple of these Motorola units. Guess I really don't need another.
Hi Friends , I need to find one of these units to buy bad I have not found on ebay
Love it! Expecting unwelcome visitors? The Ruger on the table!
Off topic a bit but I have a Ruger American Rifle. The lack of after market stocks and no bottom metal is a problem only Boyds makes one and last I checked they do not list it on their site. I have a Ruger American Rifle and I used it to build a new F-Class rig. I think it will be the next Remington 700 in terms of using it's action to build high end tactical competition rigs and F-Class on a budget. It is beefier than the 700 and needs less machining to true it up. It is CNC machined from the OEM from bar stock no casting for the receiver or bolt body. No need to true the reciever face because their is no shoulder between the barrel and the receiver. Unlike the 700 and a lot of other 2 lug rotating bolts it does not need to be sleeved or double sleeved because the bolt body is and bolt head are one huge piece so their is not 20lbs. of side thrust when the lugs are seated and cocked. The Ruger American was on Clearance at my Walmart for $169 it was in 243 Win when I got it but now it is wearing a cut rifled Brux barrel in 260 Remington. It is not a pretty action for sure but once it has 1/3 the after market of the Remington or Mauser it will be a real Diamond I think!
Mike Once again thank you for making these videos.
Great video. I have been watching ebay for one of these to show up. Thanks for sharing.
Commsprepper get the Motorola SAC-3000 if you can find it. Has a 1 kHz generator (with deviation adjustment), triple scale meter (dB, percentage and volts) for rated audio/20 dB quieting, distortion and SINAD. The one I found in the office was made around 1980. Sometimes it’s nice reading the needle compared to the bar on my R2670.
When I worked for Denver Public Schools, the FM audio measurement we looked for was 20dB SINAD with 1KHz & 5KHz deviation input from a Cushman CE-3.
I do use a sinad meter frequently for receiver alignment. Mine looks almost identical but made by Helper instruments
i want to see a shop tour, IT would be awesome!!
I have the sinadder 3, I found I had to modify its inputs to add D.C. isolation, I have a video of it on my channel.
Ay, been on my need list for some time. Prolly should just go ahead and build one; already got the hardware on-hand... ;-)
i wouldnt mind having me one of them /\/\ sinad meters
my hp8921a has it built in. If you cant figure it out just use the pistol. We had a couple of those at Texas Communications. We used them a lot before we got the HP's
I have a meter like this. I wish you would do a video on connecting to a radio. And doing the adjustment. No one does this
Probably because there isn't much to show. Just hook a set of leads from the meter to the speaker on the radio and adjust for the highest meter reading. As sensitivity increases while adjusting you may need to decrease the signal into the radio.
Enter Giveaway. I do not have a scope at all nor do I have any other test equipment so far. Looking forward to seeing your course.
Hi Mike. I heard you mention you had some SINAD Meters sitting around collecting dust. If you are willing to part with one, I'd like to buy it. Please let me know.
hi mike, could you post sharp picture's from the top and bottom of the pcb, in the schematic there are some components not clear where to connect, if you have sharp picture's i can backtrace them.
grt. pd2shb
Hi mike, I know this video is a good few years old but i have desperately looking for a sinad meter of any make for some time now, I dont suppose you would not got a spare that you do not want and could sell my way? Paul UK
very educational mike. :-)
so.... cool ol pistola on the table there m8 ;-) 9mm?
just a thought, how about some vids on wire/cable management. it seems to me manufactures dont give a hoot about it, if it's ham, cb, am/fm radios etc it's the one thing that's skipped over by everyone,
What kind of cable? Antenna coax cables. The pea shooter is a Ruger P85 9mm.
talking about wires &cables inside radios. it seems to be a neglected thing unless you get a rats nest that some screwball left behind once it's been golden drivered
Antenna coax cables would also be an interesting subject.
agreed
Hi Mike, I would like to get on your repair list for a full restore on a working Tram D201 hand wired unit.
hUmmmm, I see you have been trouble-SHOOTING Hi hi
I've been loosely looking for one of these since I started watching your vids....albeit I don't work transceivers very often, this should be able to help tune up broadcast band radios correct? I like this Motorola, nice and small would be perfect for my tiny workbench....the trolling begins! Thanks Mike for going over the how to's, I appreciate it...I see tools I need and or have and may not know how to use properly...could you do a basic video like this on signal tracing? Buddy recently did one and it was great, but he didn't show hand placement in the device. Thats a nice pistol shaped screwdriver! ~Jack, VEG
Their great for any type of receiver. I would keep an eye on Buddy's videos. He is planning on making one so maybe you could do the same. It is a rather simple device.
Thanks, will do! ~Jack, VEG
my hp8921a has it built in.
Most communications test sets have a built in SINAD meter. Some also have other audio test functions like THD, THD+N, SNR.
Que hace una pistola en un laboratorio de electrónica ...????
Es el laboratorio del Brayan ...???
I have and use one, sounds like you say you have lots of them as you say you have tons of everything maybe make video of your stock and equipment
Probably not going to happen. It would take several days as equipment and supplies are spread through several buildings.
too bad always watch other peoples setup and supplies for ideas
+DENNIS N
LOL, It would be a week long video.
I'd love if someone who owns one of these could PLEASE hi-res scan the back side of the board so we can all etch a PCB and build our own SINAD meters. They are now prohibitively expensive!
Can you post your email address ? I may be able to oblige.
Mike,
Is that a .45 at the right of the video?
9mm Ruger P85
I've not seen a P85 sinad adjuster in some time. I too, keep my Colt 1911 in handy reach at my bench, for those real stubborn repairs. It certainly can improve S/N ratios.
ROFL
+bain5872
May not do much for the signal but definitely effects the noise measurement. :)
+Enjoying The Sun 577-Jersey Customs
There's at least 2 loaded guns in every room of my house and at least one on my hip at all times. Heck I have 2 rifles in the upstairs bathroom. A 17HMR for pesky chipmunks when they raid the bird feeders and a 270 Winchester for long range groundhog removal. The 17HMR can easily take a groundhog but once you get past 250 yards those tiny bullets are pushing the limit.
Can't find a Sinad meter on Google. Are they not produced anymore?
+B Blod
Honestly don't know if any stand alone units are made these days. You can find used ones made by Helper Instruments (called a SINADDER) or ones made by Motorola on eBay all the time. Every communications test set I have has it built in.
MikesRadioRepair
I'll search. The test set you use is WAY beyond my budget at this time. Thank you for the reply.
Like i said, there are almost always a couple used stand alone units listed on ebay for sale.
MikesRadioRepair
Just checked them out. One for $150 and turns on but doesn't work. Since there are no photos of the interior, I'll shy away from that one. If you have an extra one, I'll buy it. Also, what's happening with your Electronics course. You had a drawing for the course material. Is it available for purchase?
B Blod
It's not going to be a pay for it course. It's going to be free. I am working on the website for it now, it's just not published yet. It's coming, just taking longer than I planned to get it started.
Bloody hell there’s a gun on your bench. My customers make me feel the same way.
At least one gun in every room. Some have 5 or more. Heck, I have three rifles in one second floor bathroom for varmint control. I do a lot of shooting. I fired close to 20,000 rounds this year alone.
MikesRadioRepair I don’t blame you mike. Unfortunately we have very strict gun controls here in the U.K. and I don’t think it would be worth the hassle of trying to get a firearm license. I do have several high end air rifles and some very good glass sat on the top. I used to target shoot to a high standard. I used to shoot all day Saturday and Sunday for about 10 years and did many national competitions. but my eyes are a bit tired now at the end of the week. Have been doing lots of rat shooting recently. I don’t actually like killing anything but I have chickens and that attracts rats. Watching the rats is actually more entertaining than the chickens. They have a fantastic life until I shoot them in the head. My garden is like the rat equivalent of Logan’s Run. My CB repairing is coming on well, but I’m still waiting for my SAMs to arrive for that Kraco. If you get a minute stop by my channel and say hello. Any tips or trick on my projects would be real appreciated. Thanks Mike best regards Chris.
Nice handgun. LOL
That's my daily carry piece. My old holster wore out and the and my spare has the slide digging into my side when I'm setting down. Got to go holster shopping for a new more comfortable one.
Ohhhh! I thought that was some kinda high powered soldering gun! I prefer a pencil myself! ;-p
Makes for an excellent deterrent for anyone thinking of breaking in and taking your gear as well...........shame our stupid do gooders here In Australia can't let us have our pistols as concealed carry over here.
If you come across a sinadder 3 molarola for sale I’ll buy it
If all else fails, 9mm!!!!
And if that fails I can just set it out back on the range backstop and run a few 50BMG or 338 Lapua rounds through it. :-) If all else fails run a few Raufoss Mk 211 rounds through it.
Looks like you have been robbed before. Lol