Nikki, thank you for validating my problems with my Juicebox, that is the same age as yours. In addition to charging my 2019 LEAF, I also need to share my unit with a visiting Tesla periodically. I made my husband watch the video with me. And he now has a better understanding of why I'm frustrated and agrees that I should buy a new box. I don't have the tech skills to reprogram or rebuild my existing unit. Thanks for the update and validation.
Nikki, I applaud your middle finger to those who seek to limit our choices! These companies too often show their disregard of their customers by producing inferior products that they force on us through closed proprietary APIs.
We have 2 OpenEVSE units, and they speak MQTT and talk to our Home Assistant server beautifully. You can easily feed current limit data to the charger via MQTT, making it a well-behaved friend of solar power.
@@felderup The JB ecosystem *was* open, but functionality required an app, which also required an offsite server. With OpenEVSE one can run their own onsite MQTT server and use a web interface on their devices. Tying functionality to offsite services is the tether that makes open source vulnerable to these "upgrade" takeovers of customer-owned hardware.
Humble suggestion: I just bought a Grizzl-E Duo which intelligently power shares for two cars with no internet connectivity, and it does it via ONE unit, which I kinda love. :-) It replaced a Gen 1 Juicebox (in the old, stainless steel box with no paint), which still worked just fine. I wasn't planning on buying a new JuiceBox before this video, but now? Definitely not. The Duo seems great thus far! I prefer a non-smart EVSE since my cars can control all of their charging times and what not.
20:10 The ESP32 is *much* more capable than the old legacy ESP8266. Our family has three of the OpenEVSE units (various generations) and other than having to install an external Wi-Fi antenna on one of them for more reliable Wi-Fi on one box that's mounted to the outside of a garage, they have given no problems; the oldest dates to 2017. One hopes that a smooth way of doing automatic supply circuit sharing can be developed for the OpenEVSE. While its design is looking a bit dated from the perspective of 2024 (still no https, Chris? No configurable static port for the httpd?), its hardware is quite a step up from the JuiceBox, esp. when considering the multiple guides on replacing the weak/sticking contactors in the JB. I have been charging my GEN2 RAV4 EV @ 38A for years on one of the OpenEVSEs and have had no contactor issues -- no "love taps" required, lol.
In have 5 OpenEVSE units across 2 houses, one of them I put NACS on (back in the days when we called it the Tesla connector). I wrote a website that controls the units like an app. I've been meaning to write something for load sharing, possibly using the MQTT function or having a program run every minute or so and control the settings manually.
The absolute biggest problem is there are no standards for the operation of these charging stations. Without standards every company is free to do whatever it wants. So you have to have to have an app for each brand and there's no way to share data between the apps or your home management software. So you have to sit at the PC with your phone copying the data over.
Name a category of consumer electronic devices where the digital interface is standard? The connection to the vehicle, and the protocols around that are standardized, but the web interface is up to the developer.
This is exactly why I love my "ancient" large ungainly ugly round yet robust and weatherproof Nissan branded Aeroevnironment EVSE. I bought it used for $200 and it just works. No fancy this or that. Plug in, charge, never think about it. I get the idea of being able to track consumption and the niceness of being able to tell the EVSE to do this or that. As Scotty stated in Star Trek III, The Search for Spock, the more you over complicate the plumbing, the easier it is to stop it up. These "company supported" high content EVSEs only highlight one very simple fact. you didn't buy the EVSE when you bought it. You only bought permission to use it, and they don't care if you're at the losing end of one of their downgrades disguised as upgrades. I'll remember to pay my old ugly ungainly large round yet robust and weatherproof no feature content Nissan branded Aeroevnironment EVSE when I go outside next time to unplug it from my I5 to go someplace. Let it soldier on for years to come.
I have been using my Aeroenvironment branded 30 Amp EVSE for over 12 years. Still works great. My car can do all of the charge scheduling, and report on charging status with its app, so no need for a wifi-connected EVSE. I never imagined the possible pitfalls of the latter before watching Nikki's experience. It is a shame, I have always liked eMotorWerks and their Juicenet chargers. Even good companies can be bought out or change management, then everything goes to hell.
That is why I support a UA-cam channel that pushes the Right-To-Repair and Open-Source movements. Manufacturers get greedy, and become careless and "stoooooooopid".
I bought an original Juicebox in 2015. It stopped working about 3 years ago. I found a guy who was one of the founders of the original company. He fixed it for about $90. I don’t use the internet device and control the charging through my cars
Thank you for this update on the Juice Box. I had purchased a Juice Box in 2016 to charge my 2015 Leaf, (One of the basic silver boxes with no lights) and the thing had been rock solid till I moved in 2022 and left it for the new owners and purchased a brand new Juice Box in 2022. A couple of months after my purchase I got the update and everything went south for me. The car wouldn't randomly charge. EnelX temporary fix was not use the smart charging functionality on the charger and use that functionality built into the car. Everything seems to be working again but overall the entire experience has really soured me on that product and I would no longer recommend that charger.
Thank you for this. Yet another example of a product requiring an internet connection in order to operate, even if you’re on your own network. I’m on my 3rd home monitoring system, FINALLY one controllable if within/connected to the home network when the WAN/ISP is down. THIS is the reason I abandoned the prior two systems, both were inoperable whenever I had ISP discontinuity and was unable to access/control automations my home.
When we got our Tesla I was going to get a dryer plug charger installed. My wife suggested that we use the charger that came free with the car. We never ended up getting an upgrade. We are retired and have never had an issue with the "granny lead". Given that the average daily commute is around 40 miles, A granny lead will work for many folks.
Like many many others I also use the Tesla Mobile Connector. It's great. Eventually I'll probably move to the Tesla Universal Wall Connector as it supports V2H with the Cybertruck (also many future and perhaps all future Teslas and perhaps other brands). It will also support V2G (where allowed by your power company) directly through a Tesla Powerwall or Tesla Gateway if one doesn't have a Powerwall (newer Powerwalls contain the gateway).
Just note that dryer plugs are NOT designed to handle their amperage rating for long periods of time. They are designed for dryers which cycle their power. So be sure to program any EVSE connected to a dryer plug for significantly lower amps than the plug is rated for. Otherwise you risk a meltdown or fire at the plug. The main advantage of a dryer plug is that you get 240VAC out of it. So even if it is a 30A or 35A plug you should program the EVSE to not use more than 20A. 20A @ 240VAC is still a decent amount of power (4.8kW). -Matt
Bought juice box in2020 for2019 Leaf +.Followed enel request to upgrade to Enel XWay. Was able to convince support to revert back to ev juice net after 2 months. That was ayear ago, have original functionallty, so far. Thanks for the update
See Louis Rossman and his "Right to Repair" campaign, which sounds to give consumers the right to fix, modify and control products they have purchased. As it stands, I think owners of juice boxes have a potential class action lawsuit; the company STOLE functionality you have paid for! That's totally unacceptable!
I'm in a similar boat. Bought a 2nd gen JuiceBox Pro in 2018 after I'd bought my Bolt. Worked fine with minor issues for years. Fast forward to mid-2023 and we bought a newer one as we were expecting to take delivery of our Mach-E. Literally within a week of getting the new JB the update was forced on us. The update failed on the older unit so it was not controllable by either app. Took me a couple months working with Enel X to finally get it updated so I could control it at all. Of course the new software is garbage compared to the old one. The worst thing is the load sharing didn't work for our situation. Because when you're in load sharing mode it starts off at a very low current and then slowly ramps up to your set current. This confuses the BMS and it's charging time estimate for Departure Mode charging (which I use almost exclusively on the Bolt) and makes the car think that the EVSE is much slower than it actually is, so it starts charging too soon and I end up with a "full" (~90% with Hill Top Reserve) when I don't want one (I only charge to "full" about every 1000 miles). I ended up disabling the load sharing entirely, and just set the maximum charge rate on each JuiceBox low enough that I won't overload the circuit even if both EVs were charging at the same time. And of course now that our Mach-E was bought back by Ford I've unplugged the new one entirely and it just sits there being useless.
Purchased JB Pro in January 2019, liked device and the app. Everything was great until contractors failed November 2022-I was doing percussive technique before it died. I know it was out of warranty by 10 months, but Enel-X couldn’t even offer in-house repair option. I think they offered a modest discount to buy a new one. Support suggested going to a former employee who was selling DIY contractor repair kit. I made repair and JB has been working fine, but then new software was rolled out. Had same issues logging-in and made a number of tech support calls with no success. It still allowed me to charge using previously installed parameters, but couldn’t access to make changes. Finally succeeded a month or two ago, but I am not impressed with new app. As of now, I plan to keep using until my JB dies, but I do not plan to buy another Enel-X EVSE as a replacement.
Thank you for a very intersting video ! I can see the same sort of situation playing out for all sorts of internet connected devices we have in our homes and garages - not just EV and power related. So much of the technology we get so used to using is dependent on the choices that some corporation will make.
Good information. I have a JuiceBox charging my Tesla and a Leaf. It has been off of the internet for 3 years due to a provider change, and now I will never put it back on the internet. It goes up to 11Kw for the Tesla and full 6.6 Kw for the Leaf. I’m happy with that. I’m lucky that my area is providing 245v instead of 220v. I will not let it phone home. Thanks for letting me know.
In the US, std. split-phase residential power delivery is 240vac +- 5%. There is no "220v" in the US, and hasn't been since at least the 1930s. IDK why people refer to their range/dryer/welder as "220v".
No support later down the road is exactly why I didn't choose the cheaper options when going solar back in 2014. I went with SolarCity because I was pretty sure they were going to be absorbed by Tesla which did happen later. I was also pretty sure back then Tesla would be successful therefore I would still have support for my solar panels. The other two companies I got quotes from no longer exist so I'm pretty sure I made the right decision.
Sadly an all too common occurrence which is why I stubbornly refuse to buy any product that doesn't at least have a local API of sorts. Unfortunately that's not always possible - or compatible with what your co-habitats want. Which is usually "cloud stuff".
You can purchase the OpenEVSE board and use it to retrofit your existing charger. You wouldn't be the first to do it. The big safety concern is ensuring that the finished upgrade has a functional GFCI.
When I was about to buy a used 2017 Bolt in 2020, I was looking at chargers for my apartment building after approval from my landlord. Juice Box was one of the top ones I was looking at. It saddens me to hear all the negatives. I don’t have an EV yet, but I will keep researching, so when the time comes I’ll be ready to make the best choice. Keep up the great work!
So I dont always enjoy your videos and i dont generally look for this kind of information, but I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. I suspect its because your level of knowledge and passion here translated well and also allowed you to put together a very coherent explanation
We got a refurbished JuiceBox in January 2019. I went with the change to Enel X Way and am mostly satisfied. I monitor energy flows and states of charge a few times a day to keep our Powerwall and charging EV appropriately sharing the day's rooftop solar production. The one thing I haven't figured out how to adjust (that I could in the old version) is the maximum charging power based on conductor size feeding the unit. That setting actually was a real bear in the old version because the desktop and mobile apps would interpret inputs differently and take things out of my control.
Thanks for highlighting the sh1t that ENEL X have been putting their customers through. Our JB40 was rock solid until the new app and infra were introduced - since then, there have been multiple occasions that it's lost connectivity due to infra changes - mostly changes to server names - that don't seem to get propagated to the older units. We let our Soul EV control the charging schedule now, as we can no longer rely on the ENEL X infra. I would add that tech support is pretty much hopeless - the latest (yesterday) was an extended back and forth with them claiming that the JB wasn't compatible with 5ghz WiFi; I assured them that the JB was using 2.4 and I could see the JB from a browser, but no, it was my dual band router causing the latest comms problem. A router that's been working fine for a couple of years, of course.
You mentioned Hues smart light bulbs. Though I enjoyed the dim ability of some of the bulbs I’m off smart bulbs in general. After a power glitch (which we have too frequently) i am awakened with all of them on.
We seriously need legislation that requires companies to provide a FULL refund for products they brick or make useless with their own updates. Especially considering that they have had a FULL YEAR to address these issues, I would be demanding money back. Apparently QA is a thing of the past and companies that don't engage in it need to be punished for it.
@@ghost307 Sure. So what is the Free Market solution to this? Let people continue to get screwed over by companies until those companies go out of business and the customer is really screwed?
I just bought a Juicenet (September 2023) because my local power company (the same as yours in the Portland, Oregon area) gave me a rebate of $4,300 to have it installed and upgrade my electric panel. The rebate covered all but about $900 of the work. In order to qualify for the rebate, one is required to use one of two suppliers for the charger, and enroll in their power saving program for emergency peak power consumption remediation. I am stuck with it for 2 years now. But, so far it is working fine for my needs. I am not casting shade on anything you said. I am now more concerned, however, about some of the things you mentioned than I was before. Thank you.
I also appreciate your validation of the issues with Enel X. They really degraded my experience, and the only thing their customer service agent can say is "I'm sorry". I would be very interested in seeing you retrofit your JuiceBox with Open EVSE. It's an interesting product that I would love to learn more about - and if I can make it work for my needs, I'd be happy to convert my two JuiceBoxes to Open EVSE.
I have a lot of problems with the new application. Having a Hyundai Ionic, it is difficult to not fully charge with the new app. A lot of times it doesn't work well so it is full when it shouldn't be. Pain in the ...
I thought the hardware was failing when my Juice Box started acting up and not charging reliably. After reading about the issues online and seeing there was no good resolution from Enelx I replaced it with an OpenEVSE. Fortunately, I also have a Tesla charger that I was able to use with a TeslaTap when I needed to be sure my i3 would get a full charger. I just started working on integrating with my Home Assistant and Enphase solar system. I saved the cables from the Juice Box to use with a second OpenEVSE to install at my brother's house.
Thanks for this - we (in Canada) have a Juicebox Pro 40 that keeps our 2017 Fiat 500e well nourished through its type 2 charger. We have no need to share, and the Fiat doesn’t like to charge from load-sharing chargers such as FLO chargers with an AAB serial number (those with AAA are said to work fine). We don’t use any smart features of the JB and it sounds as if we may not be able to if variable rate charging comes to BC.
I was one of the original Kickstarter funders of the plain vanilla JuiceBox around a decade ago. It has been working perfectly through two Volts and now my nearly new 2021 Bolt. The only change I had to do to accommodate the Bolt was to upgrade my circuit breaker from 20 to 40 amps. I share this because the original dumb box with no Wi-Fi or Bluetooth is perfect for my needs. Keep It Simple Stupid!
I bought my Juicebox back in 2019, for the specific reason to limit charge level to my 2019 Souk EV Limited, for some unknown reason Kia dropped the maximum charge level in the infotainment system (from the 2018 version) so you could no longer limit charging to 80% or what ever level you want to set. Yes I to had issues with this years notice of the app update, but nothing on Juicebox firmware update. I had some issues logging in but that lasted a day, and now I am on BC Hydro's Peak Saver program, so when the utility has high demands my charging pauses. Had issues initially to resume charging but finally figured that out when I need to override the demand peak charging pause when I had urgent need to charge. I still have Siemens 32 amp dumb charger that I got from KIA in its original box which I may give to my sister when I finally get here to buy an EV! I have even the tout bag when I use to bring it along on my long road trips to visit family before I got my 2023 Tesla Model Y AWD which I have their portable charger so now Mr. Juicebox does not get to go on vacation!
I have the JuiceBox 40 and was also force-upgraded to the new software and firmware. Luckily I have had only one issue with it which appeared the instant the update was done: Plugging in does not immediately start a charge session or start the timed charging (if activated), but only after a 10 to 70 second delay. I have three EVSEs and the JB40 is the only that does this so I know it's not my EV (a 2018 Kia Soul EV+). On my other two EVSEs (the granny charger that came with the car and a portable level 1/2 charger I bought on Amazon) as soon as you plug in you can either hear the contactors engage within a few seconds or the middle charge indicator on the dash start blinking to let you know it is in standby mode (until the allotted charge time is reached). But with the JB40, there is no contactor engagement or blinking light for at least 10 seconds and sometimes (inexplicably) up to 70 seconds or so. It's annoying but I've learned to live with it. I also would not recommend the JB40 for that very reason. I imagine new owners would think it is defective and return it.
@@jennexercise5623If this delay happens on most EVs, it's amazing that this behavior wasn't seen during their testing of the new firmware. (Unless they didn't actually test it!)
If you were in the UK, this would fall udser s.15 of the Consumer Protection App (regarding software bundled with devices reducing functionalty) The USA has similar laws and a supercomplaint to the FTC is probably in order
Hello. Long time channel supporter and ally here. I'd love to learn more about your 3:35 *RAGE AGAINST* the garage door opener company. I've often wanted an app that gives me status and can open/close my garage door.
I'm in a multi-family residential building in Los Angeles with 30 Juicebox Enel-X chargers. We've had all the same issues. About 20% of the residents had switched to EVs in the last few years. Now, seeing all these issues, we have lost any momentum in getting more people to move to EVs and some with EVs are even considering going back to ICE vehicles.
My recommendation is install an OpenEVSE control board. The board only option is cheap compared to any alternative options. Excellent community and forum support. I'd expect there are a number of other EV drivers wanting the dual power charing ability just like you. Talking to the OpenEVSE project developers asking what it would take ($$) to have the feature implemented could get it done in little time. Cost would be minimal if a group of EV drivers all chipped in a small donation for the feature. It's too bad that hardware just doesn't keep working the way it should without needing an internet connection. Unfortunately this is the all to common when a company get acquired, support for older products are tossed aside, as if the customers do not exist. (not a smart business strategy)
In the same boat, really. We bought our Juicebox back in ~2020 or thereabouts, and until the switch was pretty satisfied. And while we have 2 cars, we only charge one at a time, so the "new" firmware is just a nuisance and not a real deal-breaker. But like you, I can no longer recommend - there are others out there, but I have no direct experience with them, so I don't know what to recommend right now. The notion of flashing your own firmware is one that crossed my mind - it just wasn't high enough on my list to actually do. To some extent the ability to monitor electricity used is less of an issue for me since I installed the Emporia Vue in our panelbox - in one app, I can see the solar production, the EVSE usage, and for that matter any other electrical usage in the house. At the moment, I am quite content with that, and I suppose if the Juicebox completely died tomorrow, I would contemplate the Emporia EVSE to replace it. But Emporia potentially has the same problem - closed-source firmware uploading data to the cloud. And at some date in the future, a corporate acquisition might nerf that thing too. Or they might go out of business - you never know what will happen a few years down the road. That unit uses the ESP32 processor, and there are already people playing with custom firmware (ESPHome).
Yes, ours also been taken over by Xway, I figured they sold out to another company so they can claim the EV charging credits for cash. I also much preferred the previous app and setup. Thanks for your experience being shared. Dave in Delta, BC Canada
I have a JuiceBox model that I think is a generation before yours. Had some troubles “upgrading” to the new EnelX app. Once I got it working I set it to full power and to charge all the time, then do the scheduling or power limiting from within the Tesla app. Not ideal but it’s a workaround
I have a four-year-old Juicebox which worked flawlessly with my 2019 Honda Clarity PHEV. A year ago I purchased a Tesla model Y and for a while it worked just fine with the hardware adapter Tesla provided. Then problems began. I began to get random messages from the Tesla app that charging had been stopped due to communication errors with the JuiceBox. Now it seems to be an intermittent problem (which is perhaps the most infuriating possibility). I don’t know whether or not I can trust JuiceBox to charge at night when rates are lowest. I’m at the point planning to replace the JuiceBox. Thanks to your video I won’t be purchasing from the Mega Corporation that bought JuiceBox and ran it into the ground.
My 6 year old eMotorWerks JuiceBox was recently fried during a Thunderstorm. Even with help from the ENEL-X support and percussion style treatment, it could not be reset. They said they would not repair it, since it’s past the warranty. So I ordered a Tesla wall charger, in anticipation of NACS becoming the universal standard. Done.
I strongly agree with the need for local control and intelligent load sharing. We have 2 ev’s and need smarter load balancing. I have a concern about reflashing EVSE microcontrollers with firmware than may not be UL tested and approved. I’ll be on the lookout for EVSE units with open published API to use with Home Assistant. Tesla wall connectors, with newly announced open API look like they might fit my needs.
There's really no such thing as "UL-tested" firmware, nor will it cause any particular risk in your installation. Once companies get UL certification for a piece of hardware, firmware updates are not generally considered triggers for requiring another round of UL testing. The worst that will happen is that you pop the breaker on the shared circuit. Don't worry about it. -Matt
My favorite takeaway was that you monitored your local grid to charge mainly when renewablw proportion was highest. I'd love more discussion about how people do that, and also how power companies like SDG&E encourage fossil heavy charhing by aligning super offpeak rates with the dirtiest time (12am-6am in a solar heavy state)
That is the low power demand time. It depends how much solar is installed in your jurisdiction. My jurisdiction banned new grid-scale solar installations because they want to double down on Natural Gas.
Hrm. PG&Es off-peak is generally midnight to 3pm or so, but PG&E tends to really distort the on-peak rates when giving discounts on the off-peak rates, usually to the point where it is not beneficial unless you can reliable net-zero the entire partial-peak and on-peak periods (usually 4pm to 9pm or 3pm to midnight, depending). So for the E-ELEC 2024 tariff, it is $0.42/kWh off-peak summer, $0.36/kWh off-peak Winter, and $0.64/kWh on-peak summer (and a bit less on-peak for winter). For the normal E-TOU-C Tariff it is $0.63 and $0.49 off-peak and $0.62 on-peak (and again a bit less for winter). For the default E-1 Residential tariff, which is Tiered (so you pay more when your consumption is higher), Tier-1 is $0.42, Tier-2 and Tier-3 is $0.53. I am grandfathered into ETOU-B which is $0.48 and $0.43 off-peak and $0.60 on-peak summer (and a bit less winter). Which means it doesn't make much sense for me to change to E-ELEC until I am able to really net-zero all on-peak and all partial-peak consumption, including through winter. All or nearly-all. Not yet 😞 -- What's funny about this whole thing is that the PG&E "compare rates" feature which runs like the last 12 months of your bill through all the tariffs available to you all come within 5% or so of each other in terms of total Bill. PG&E has designed the rate structures to take their pound of flesh pretty much no matter what you do. It LITERALLY doesn't matter which schedule I choose, which makes the whole concept of having different tariffs for adjusting your usage mostly worthless. So pretty much the only way to reduce your bills is to consume what you generate with solar. And yes, those can be huge reductions in your bill. Its just that the tariffs don't really help or improve things. By the time I am able to load-shift pass the non-off-peak periods I will have already reduced my bill so much that switching to another tariff won't matter anyway. Not even switching to E-ELEC with its $0.36/kWh rate will matter a whole lot because I just won't be eating a ton of grid power anyway at that point. -Matt
I have a dumb level 2 charger. So I don’t have any issues, but I have been burned before with products that were either app only connected (no controls on the device other than power) that then lost App support (becoming a paperweight), or internet connected and the device went unsupported and is unuseable now
Sounds like a typical case of take and break, I assume there has been an ownership/control change that enabled the evil clowns to get their oily mitts on the reins. Sad story, thanks for sharing. Hope to hear from you of a successful work-around in the future. I wonder if a class-action lawsuit could be brought against the company or management?
Oooh, first time hearing about openEVSE, looks neat. Currently using a Grizzl-E after my refurb Juicebox started on fire internally, along with the stuck relay problem they usually have.
I have a Juicebox Pro 40 (black aluminum box, leds, ZentriOS] and have become increasingly annoyed by the Enel X Way app even though my evse is still working for me. Since all the hardware is in there, I think what we need is some open source firmware to flash into that thing. I'd speculate that the hated firmware updates only went onto the Zentri module and perhaps that's what needs to be addressed.
Thanks for mentioning OpenEVSE.. did not know about them before very cool - we will eventually need a 2nd home charger so that might just do the trick.. A little pricey for the assembled kits though.. Also I get that it's annoying that people constantly recommend Tesla products but in many ways Tesla mirrors Apple in terms of their success, walled garden approach and slick "just works" hardware - easy to get comfortable with. I do however strongly agree with your opensource predilection..
While the price of an assembled OpenEVSE is on the high side compared to closed-source mass-market units, bear in mind that you can actually repair it or replace ANY component of it; that's not possible with most of the alternatives. We own three of them, oldest is 2017, no issues except the oldest one's nozzle melted a pin and I replaced the nozzle and cord -- it was originally supplied to OpenEVSE by QC Power and was substandard for continuous 40A operation, which is what my EV can pull.
Message your governor to do this: California state law (Civil Code section 1947.6) requires landlords to approve tenant requests to install EV charging stations in their dedicated parking spaces so long as the tenant is willing to pay for the charging station and associated costs, including installation and utility costs.
This is very interesting and important to me, because I have an Enel X First gen white case juice box. Initially, I wanted to and try to connect it to my apartment Wi-Fi, but my signal was too far away and wouldn’t connect. I just have the one, so I don’t need any special load-balancing. And when I time the charging, I used my car built-in scheduler instead of what’s in the juice box. As result, I think I’ve only ever connected it to the Internet once, when it was first installed. And then maybe a second time when I was trying to see if putting a Wi-Fi hotspot in my car would allow to work. I’m glad I don’t use that regularly. Because it sounds like there’s a chance that I’ve been transitioned to the new app, it would have essentially broke the charger, and it would take five times or more as long to charge. That would honestly be unacceptable in many circumstances. Have you mentioned the video, this is unacceptable. And one of the reasons why I don’t like cloud connected devices. I’m already in the habit of not connecting some of my video editing tools to the Internet, because either windows will be forced to update, the software will be forced to update. And then suddenly the tool that I need in order to earn my living is no longer viable, or I will have dozens of hours of debugging to get it to work. This is not a good way for electric cars to work, and frankly is not a good way for any device to work.
the unfortunate take away from this: it's a lot more effort than I am willing to do for something that should just work. I am a believer in EV's and plan on my next vehicle purchase to be an EV. But if I have to learn software, coding, learning how to internet block etc. etc. It become a major barrier to entry into the market. One that will cause me to pump the brakes before jumping in.
The solution is simple. Get a basic EVSE. Nothing to learn. Wire it in or have it done if you lack the skills to do it on your own, turn on the breaker and just let it do its thing. I'm with you on not having to go to college and get a masters degree to simply charge a car. I'm exactly in your camp. My EVSE has no fluff, and just works with that satisfying clunk of the relay contacts reliably closing every single time I plug in. No banging, no mussing, no cussing, not apps, no wifi, no bother, no worries. EVs are a car at the end of the day, and I damned well expect to use it the same as I would any of the ICE cars that I've been systematically removing from my "fleet" of personal vehicles.
Our first charger was a free Blink provided by the government (the charger was free, but we had to pay for the installation and the electrician overcharged us to make up for getting stiffed on the charger). What a disaster, multiple software faults, zero-null-nada product support. Replaced it with a no-name charging cord which worked fine for about a year, and then failed. Ended up buying a "dumb" Bosch charger identical to the one our local Chevy dealer uses. Paid a bit extra for the name, but it does what we need, no fuss reliable charging. Plug the car in and after a few hours it is ready to go. All I had to do was screw it to the wall and plug it in.
I've been having my JuiceBox's contactor stick due to our crappy utility, but all I've needed to do was unplug it and plug it back in again. Mine isn't WiFi capable because I have no interest in linking/tracking it. If it works, then KISS applies for me.
I had issues getting my Juicebox to work with the app as well. I put in a ticket, got a mail or two that never worked. Then they sent me a mail asking if I was satisfied, I gave them a failing grade. Apparently at that point the Support person tracked down who actually could fix the problem and had them fix it to get a better rating. So, the new software can work but, it is way more of a pain to get working than it should be.
I have a JuiceBox Pro 40, what a pain in the ass it was. We got two replacements, but eventually it was out of warranty and we were stuck with it. It's now sitting in a box after having replaced it with a Grizzl-E Classic, but since then I've seen your "percussive maintenance" fix so haven't yet thrown it away. What a nightmare and waste of money.
It seems like the best way to end this madness would be to have companies clearly state when software support ends for specific devices, or to go back to the days when what you bought was what you got. Maybe we need to allow for egregious bug fixes, but to have teams continually working on code for 5+ year old devices is crazy.
In the era of apps being required for functionality, someone has to keep that offsite server updated and running, and that's where your analogy of "you bought it, you own it" falls down. The workaround is to run your own server so your mobile can have that "app" feeling, but this is beyond the ken of most consumers.
@@alsavage1 obviously for ‘you bought it you own it’ to work it shouldn’t be connecting to an external server. Ideally, none of your home automation devices should be depending on an external server. I’m even going to argue they shouldn’t be internet facing. If some kind of home server or hub is required we should be able to make that happen without giving outside actors n points of access to our network.
They did not end software support. They forced all customers onto a new app that is buggy and a big downgrade. New units and old units use the same app.
Loved my JB Pro 40 until EnelX ruined it with their software. I even quickly and easily replaced the relay after using the “bang on it” approach for a while, but the software became completely unreliable. Replaced it last year with an Emporia which has been rock solid, but runs the same future-change risk.
We are blessed to have two locations where we need chargers. One unit is a ChargePoint, the other a JuiceBox because of supply chain issues when we installed. Big mistake. ChargePoint has issues, but the Juice Box app does not work well at all. They are relatively new units. It will be a bummer to have to replace the JuiceBox.
I bought a evse that can plug into any 240v Nema 14-50 outlet. At my last place I never had any issues with it. There I installed the outlet mostly my self, it had a basic 50amp breaker in it. At my new, recently built up to code, place it keeps popping the breaker, sometimes when it's not actively charging, but still plugged into the car. In my research I've found that a GFCI breaker, could be the cause. Is that something yall have heard and can back up? I trust you more than random internet forums. I suppose the breaker could just be bad, or maybe the evse itself is dying. Though I don't use it all that much and it's less than 5 years old.
Wow, as a PGE customer who recently signed up for their charger rebate, I feel like a dodged a bullet. I almost went enel x for the future upgrade of power sharing. It was the electrician who did the work who swayed us toward chargepoint for reliability reasons. That being said, I find it more convenient to use my car to control the charging schedule since it knows its state of charge and can figure out when to charge to finish by the morning. Still though, this is a sobering reminder that there is no internet-connected product safe from the company arbitrarily deciding to break existing functionality via a firmware upgrade and walking away from the whole thing.
So happy I went with a “dumb” ClipperCreek Share2. It is true that I have little way to control it, but that will remain the same as long as it continues to function.
I was in the same situation as you. I went back to the old app and now is working! If they push me to go back to the "new" app I will buy something else.
Thats why i like my united chargers Grizzl-e evse. Simple basic operation. It doesn't have energy tracking so youd have to add that to your breaker panel if you really wanted to monitor that. But i can mostly do that from the Tesla as it tallies how much AC charging has been done. They also have a duo unit that shares power between 2 plugs but again, no smart features. If I didn't get the Grizzl-e, I'd get an OpenEVSE.
I love my Siemens Versacharge. It's at least 10 years old. I got it used 6 years ago. Dumb as a box of rocks, and it will always stay that way because there's no internet connection to change anything.
Thank you for this video!!! I have a JuiceBox Pro40 from like 2017 and it was great till late last year when I was forced to change over. It's horrible. I also have a Chamberlain garage door opener so I'm unhappy on both. Do we need a RatEVSE :)? Enel-X stinks.
We have an 'old' juicebox, and I agree with your conclusions. This is why I am looking into a Tesla multi-connector station, to allow chargine both our Smart For Two ED and Tesla Model Y. ... Sigh, I do miss the old JuiceNet software. I have not made any change yet, and use the basic function of the JuiceBox. But I am interested in what comes out of this community appeal!
And just in general, I'm not a huge fan of devices needing a cloud-based service to fully function. I think long term companies need to have open standards to communicate with those cloud services and users should be able to change those cloud services. And it should also be relatively easy to update the software on them (an SD card or something like that). All that is a bit beyond the scope of chargers though - this would be true for smart TVs, fridges, etc.
I've three OpenEVSEs, the oldest is 2017. They have an ESP for local Wi-Fi (oldest have ESP8266; newer have ESP32) and can have their IP set static, so you can point your mobile's browser to its web interface for local control -- if you even need local control. For most people, plug-n-charge is good enough. For remote control, though, outside your home, you'll need to do port-forwarding at your home's router. Most people want to download an app and have it "just work", with the trade-off of . . . an app, which someone else maintains or abandons, and which leads to the JuiceBox situation. If you don't need the EVSE to load-share a single circuit between multiple EVSEs, monitor solar/green energy availability and tell the EV to draw more or less power on a dynamic basis, or have the EVSE do scheduled charging (most EVs can do that on their own), then any old dumb EVSE can do the job. The OpenEVSE is somewhere between dumb and cloud-smart. And they can be repaired at the component level.
I've had a JuiceBox for 4 years and it worked flawlessly until this month. Not happy about what has happened. My JuiceBox was given to me by my local utility company so I'm not out any money but now may have to fork out for a new device.
I’ve used public charging stations for the past three years and am looking forward to the day that my Freeholders add charging stations at Garden Court.
You bought it, you own it so it's yours to do with what you want. I'd say flash the chip with older software that works and regain control for the short term. Someone in the community may rewrite the firmware to be open source again. As for the ESP 8266, it's the older and less capable processor compared to the ESP32 family of processors.
I was able to get Enelx to roll me juiceboxes back to the old software very early on. My initial support ticket focused on the fact that I had one power limited down and in the upgrade that limit got removed. That's a fire risk. It wasn't my fire risk, but there are absolutely users out there for which it is. Anyway I'm still on the old juicenet software and Home Assistant is still talking to it, but who knows how much longer. Worst of all is that the new, let's call it third party API... seems to depend on the fact that Enelx is communicating unencrypted for something that has the ability to burn down your house. Let that sink in for a bit.
You turned comments on again :) That is great. I just re-subscribed. Thanks for allowing a dialog with your viewers again, instead of trying to monopolize what political message you want to bring across. I don t mind political content, as long as you allow your users to respond. Glad that I can be back as one of your viewers : )
We are definitely disappointed by out JuiceBox charging stations - we have both the first generation (half cylinder) model and the newer Pro model. The latter had been replaced under warranty *twice*; but then it stopped having the problem. But then about a year+ later - it died after a series of power outages. And the old one that was still working, (but didn't have the wireless connection) when I stored it away in favor of the new one - also failed to function when I plugged it in. So we had to buy a new unit - we decided to get the Tesla Universal Wall Connector.
Last Night my Juicebox 40 issued the 5 beeps of death (this code reflects the high current relay / actually contactor is welded closed and needs to be replaced), so they offered a $100.00 credit on a new purchase as my Juicebox is just past the 3 year warranty, not happy with this company that they provide a substandard contactor - the proper name for a high current relay). I am a certified electronics technician and yes I can repair it but I just might get the awesome Tesla NACS / J1772 EVSE (oh lets just call it a combo EV charger). I am sitting on the fence hate to throw away an otherwise fine charger.
I've been using one of the original black-half-a-pipe JuiceBox chargers which was touted as fully open source hardware and software. Well, now the sources of documentation and firmware are all dead links. I managed to rewire the plug with a Mennekes Type 2 handle and a 150 ohm resistor as I prepare my 914 with new Tesla battery modules and an upcoming shipment to my new home in Spain. I'm disappointed that it's an orphan now and Enel has done such an abysmal job in all of the older products. I think it's beyond incompetence into sheer malice.
I am wondering why you want all these phone apps and such like. I have a garage door opener with a button in the car and another hard wired button in the garage. I can't imagine having to dig my phone out to open/close the garage door, particularly since my phone is in a drawer at home 99% of the time. I guess it is a generational thing. I was over 50 before I got my first flip phone and into my 60s before I got a "smart" phone. Now even with a smart phone I use my phone to make phone calls when I am away from home and don't have any "apps" on it that I use. As far as "internet connected" gadgets go, avoiding internet connectivity was the main reason I opted to build my own backup home power system/solar system from components rather that buy a commercial system like the Tesla powerwall. What it comes down to it that I just don't get why everything in your house needs to communicate with anything at all, but then my primary phone is still a land line - not a newfangled push button one either.
I would really like to see regulations that all IoT require an open system permitting competitive or open source services. Ideally flexible enough to run the server-side on the home LAN.
This is why I don't use IoT crap that relies on a central server. On Home Assistant you want to look for support for "local" integrations. 12:35 Blocking Internet access is probably a good idea for Iot devices. If the "local" integration is working: only Home Assistant would need internet access (for remote access)..
Guessing that since the old app is still 'connected' that this may be blocking the new app. (Like you are still logged in on the juice boxes) - Really unfortunate and frustrating!
Nikki, thank you for validating my problems with my Juicebox, that is the same age as yours. In addition to charging my 2019 LEAF, I also need to share my unit with a visiting Tesla periodically. I made my husband watch the video with me. And he now has a better understanding of why I'm frustrated and agrees that I should buy a new box. I don't have the tech skills to reprogram or rebuild my existing unit. Thanks for the update and validation.
I love your "homemade" "stock footage" of M looking for options to charge their car in a garage or on a street
Nikki, I applaud your middle finger to those who seek to limit our choices! These companies too often show their disregard of their customers by producing inferior products that they force on us through closed proprietary APIs.
We have 2 OpenEVSE units, and they speak MQTT and talk to our Home Assistant server beautifully. You can easily feed current limit data to the charger via MQTT, making it a well-behaved friend of solar power.
Tell us more! Do you load share?
This is the right way to do things. Never buy proprietary stuff if you can possibly help it - it may well bite you in the arse in the long run.
@@xxwookey well, this juice thing was open, i suggest, never upgrading to new versions unless the new version is also open.
@@felderup The JB ecosystem *was* open, but functionality required an app, which also required an offsite server. With OpenEVSE one can run their own onsite MQTT server and use a web interface on their devices.
Tying functionality to offsite services is the tether that makes open source vulnerable to these "upgrade" takeovers of customer-owned hardware.
@@alsavage1 uhuh, right, you betcha.
Humble suggestion: I just bought a Grizzl-E Duo which intelligently power shares for two cars with no internet connectivity, and it does it via ONE unit, which I kinda love. :-)
It replaced a Gen 1 Juicebox (in the old, stainless steel box with no paint), which still worked just fine. I wasn't planning on buying a new JuiceBox before this video, but now? Definitely not. The Duo seems great thus far! I prefer a non-smart EVSE since my cars can control all of their charging times and what not.
20:10 The ESP32 is *much* more capable than the old legacy ESP8266.
Our family has three of the OpenEVSE units (various generations) and other than having to install an external Wi-Fi antenna on one of them for more reliable Wi-Fi on one box that's mounted to the outside of a garage, they have given no problems; the oldest dates to 2017. One hopes that a smooth way of doing automatic supply circuit sharing can be developed for the OpenEVSE.
While its design is looking a bit dated from the perspective of 2024 (still no https, Chris? No configurable static port for the httpd?), its hardware is quite a step up from the JuiceBox, esp. when considering the multiple guides on replacing the weak/sticking contactors in the JB. I have been charging my GEN2 RAV4 EV @ 38A for years on one of the OpenEVSEs and have had no contactor issues -- no "love taps" required, lol.
In have 5 OpenEVSE units across 2 houses, one of them I put NACS on (back in the days when we called it the Tesla connector). I wrote a website that controls the units like an app. I've been meaning to write something for load sharing, possibly using the MQTT function or having a program run every minute or so and control the settings manually.
The absolute biggest problem is there are no standards for the operation of these charging stations. Without standards every company is free to do whatever it wants. So you have to have to have an app for each brand and there's no way to share data between the apps or your home management software. So you have to sit at the PC with your phone copying the data over.
Name a category of consumer electronic devices where the digital interface is standard? The connection to the vehicle, and the protocols around that are standardized, but the web interface is up to the developer.
This is exactly why I love my "ancient" large ungainly ugly round yet robust and weatherproof Nissan branded Aeroevnironment EVSE. I bought it used for $200 and it just works. No fancy this or that. Plug in, charge, never think about it. I get the idea of being able to track consumption and the niceness of being able to tell the EVSE to do this or that. As Scotty stated in Star Trek III, The Search for Spock, the more you over complicate the plumbing, the easier it is to stop it up. These "company supported" high content EVSEs only highlight one very simple fact. you didn't buy the EVSE when you bought it. You only bought permission to use it, and they don't care if you're at the losing end of one of their downgrades disguised as upgrades. I'll remember to pay my old ugly ungainly large round yet robust and weatherproof no feature content Nissan branded Aeroevnironment EVSE when I go outside next time to unplug it from my I5 to go someplace. Let it soldier on for years to come.
I have been using my Aeroenvironment branded 30 Amp EVSE for over 12 years. Still works great. My car can do all of the charge scheduling, and report on charging status with its app, so no need for a wifi-connected EVSE. I never imagined the possible pitfalls of the latter before watching Nikki's experience. It is a shame, I have always liked eMotorWerks and their Juicenet chargers. Even good companies can be bought out or change management, then everything goes to hell.
That is why I support a UA-cam channel that pushes the Right-To-Repair and Open-Source movements. Manufacturers get greedy, and become careless and "stoooooooopid".
I bought an original Juicebox in 2015. It stopped working about 3 years ago. I found a guy who was one of the founders of the original company. He fixed it for about $90. I don’t use the internet device and control the charging through my cars
So many JB contactor failures -- there are vids and repair guides just for the JB's contactors R&R! Under-designed.
😮 I'll have to check the current rating on those contactors. I have the original model juice box.
Thank you for this update on the Juice Box. I had purchased a Juice Box in 2016 to charge my 2015 Leaf, (One of the basic silver boxes with no lights) and the thing had been rock solid till I moved in 2022 and left it for the new owners and purchased a brand new Juice Box in 2022. A couple of months after my purchase I got the update and everything went south for me. The car wouldn't randomly charge. EnelX temporary fix was not use the smart charging functionality on the charger and use that functionality built into the car. Everything seems to be working again but overall the entire experience has really soured me on that product and I would no longer recommend that charger.
Thank you for this. Yet another example of a product requiring an internet connection in order to operate, even if you’re on your own network. I’m on my 3rd home monitoring system, FINALLY one controllable if within/connected to the home network when the WAN/ISP is down. THIS is the reason I abandoned the prior two systems, both were inoperable whenever I had ISP discontinuity and was unable to access/control automations my home.
When we got our Tesla I was going to get a dryer plug charger installed. My wife suggested that we use the charger that came free with the car. We never ended up getting an upgrade.
We are retired and have never had an issue with the "granny lead". Given that the average daily commute is around 40 miles, A granny lead will work for many folks.
Like many many others I also use the Tesla Mobile Connector. It's great. Eventually I'll probably move to the Tesla Universal Wall Connector as it supports V2H with the Cybertruck (also many future and perhaps all future Teslas and perhaps other brands). It will also support V2G (where allowed by your power company) directly through a Tesla Powerwall or Tesla Gateway if one doesn't have a Powerwall (newer Powerwalls contain the gateway).
Just note that dryer plugs are NOT designed to handle their amperage rating for long periods of time. They are designed for dryers which cycle their power. So be sure to program any EVSE connected to a dryer plug for significantly lower amps than the plug is rated for. Otherwise you risk a meltdown or fire at the plug.
The main advantage of a dryer plug is that you get 240VAC out of it. So even if it is a 30A or 35A plug you should program the EVSE to not use more than 20A. 20A @ 240VAC is still a decent amount of power (4.8kW).
-Matt
Bought juice box in2020 for2019 Leaf +.Followed enel request to upgrade to Enel XWay. Was able to convince support to revert back to ev juice net after 2 months. That was ayear ago, have original functionallty, so far. Thanks for the update
See Louis Rossman and his "Right to Repair" campaign, which sounds to give consumers the right to fix, modify and control products they have purchased. As it stands, I think owners of juice boxes have a potential class action lawsuit; the company STOLE functionality you have paid for! That's totally unacceptable!
I really envy your home automation setup. Amazing. I too run a couple home server. Truenas scale, and proxmox, with a pihole.
I'm in a similar boat. Bought a 2nd gen JuiceBox Pro in 2018 after I'd bought my Bolt. Worked fine with minor issues for years.
Fast forward to mid-2023 and we bought a newer one as we were expecting to take delivery of our Mach-E.
Literally within a week of getting the new JB the update was forced on us.
The update failed on the older unit so it was not controllable by either app. Took me a couple months working with Enel X to finally get it updated so I could control it at all.
Of course the new software is garbage compared to the old one.
The worst thing is the load sharing didn't work for our situation. Because when you're in load sharing mode it starts off at a very low current and then slowly ramps up to your set current. This confuses the BMS and it's charging time estimate for Departure Mode charging (which I use almost exclusively on the Bolt) and makes the car think that the EVSE is much slower than it actually is, so it starts charging too soon and I end up with a "full" (~90% with Hill Top Reserve) when I don't want one (I only charge to "full" about every 1000 miles).
I ended up disabling the load sharing entirely, and just set the maximum charge rate on each JuiceBox low enough that I won't overload the circuit even if both EVs were charging at the same time.
And of course now that our Mach-E was bought back by Ford I've unplugged the new one entirely and it just sits there being useless.
Purchased JB Pro in January 2019, liked device and the app. Everything was great until contractors failed November 2022-I was doing percussive technique before it died. I know it was out of warranty by 10 months, but Enel-X couldn’t even offer in-house repair option. I think they offered a modest discount to buy a new one. Support suggested going to a former employee who was selling DIY contractor repair kit. I made repair and JB has been working fine, but then new software was rolled out.
Had same issues logging-in and made a number of tech support calls with no success. It still allowed me to charge using previously installed parameters, but couldn’t access to make changes. Finally succeeded a month or two ago, but I am not impressed with new app. As of now, I plan to keep using until my JB dies, but I do not plan to buy another Enel-X EVSE as a replacement.
Thank you for a very intersting video !
I can see the same sort of situation playing out for all sorts of internet connected devices we have in our homes and garages - not just EV and power related. So much of the technology we get so used to using is dependent on the choices that some corporation will make.
Nikki, you are a nerd amongst nerds, and we love you for it! EDIT: Annnnd.... the enshitification of everything continues.
Good information. I have a JuiceBox charging my Tesla and a Leaf. It has been off of the internet for 3 years due to a provider change, and now I will never put it back on the internet. It goes up to 11Kw for the Tesla and full 6.6 Kw for the Leaf. I’m happy with that. I’m lucky that my area is providing 245v instead of 220v. I will not let it phone home. Thanks for letting me know.
In the US, std. split-phase residential power delivery is 240vac +- 5%. There is no "220v" in the US, and hasn't been since at least the 1930s. IDK why people refer to their range/dryer/welder as "220v".
No support later down the road is exactly why I didn't choose the cheaper options when going solar back in 2014. I went with SolarCity because I was pretty sure they were going to be absorbed by Tesla which did happen later. I was also pretty sure back then Tesla would be successful therefore I would still have support for my solar panels. The other two companies I got quotes from no longer exist so I'm pretty sure I made the right decision.
Sadly an all too common occurrence which is why I stubbornly refuse to buy any product that doesn't at least have a local API of sorts.
Unfortunately that's not always possible - or compatible with what your co-habitats want. Which is usually "cloud stuff".
You can purchase the OpenEVSE board and use it to retrofit your existing charger. You wouldn't be the first to do it. The big safety concern is ensuring that the finished upgrade has a functional GFCI.
When I was about to buy a used 2017 Bolt in 2020, I was looking at chargers for my apartment building after approval from my landlord. Juice Box was one of the top ones I was looking at. It saddens me to hear all the negatives. I don’t have an EV yet, but I will keep researching, so when the time comes I’ll be ready to make the best choice. Keep up the great work!
Ha, loved the images of M plug searching.
So I dont always enjoy your videos and i dont generally look for this kind of information, but I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. I suspect its because your level of knowledge and passion here translated well and also allowed you to put together a very coherent explanation
We got a refurbished JuiceBox in January 2019. I went with the change to Enel X Way and am mostly satisfied. I monitor energy flows and states of charge a few times a day to keep our Powerwall and charging EV appropriately sharing the day's rooftop solar production. The one thing I haven't figured out how to adjust (that I could in the old version) is the maximum charging power based on conductor size feeding the unit. That setting actually was a real bear in the old version because the desktop and mobile apps would interpret inputs differently and take things out of my control.
Thanks for highlighting the sh1t that ENEL X have been putting their customers through. Our JB40 was rock solid until the new app and infra were introduced - since then, there have been multiple occasions that it's lost connectivity due to infra changes - mostly changes to server names - that don't seem to get propagated to the older units. We let our Soul EV control the charging schedule now, as we can no longer rely on the ENEL X infra. I would add that tech support is pretty much hopeless - the latest (yesterday) was an extended back and forth with them claiming that the JB wasn't compatible with 5ghz WiFi; I assured them that the JB was using 2.4 and I could see the JB from a browser, but no, it was my dual band router causing the latest comms problem. A router that's been working fine for a couple of years, of course.
You mentioned Hues smart light bulbs. Though I enjoyed the dim ability of some of the bulbs I’m off smart bulbs in general. After a power glitch (which we have too frequently) i am awakened with all of them on.
We seriously need legislation that requires companies to provide a FULL refund for products they brick or make useless with their own updates. Especially considering that they have had a FULL YEAR to address these issues, I would be demanding money back. Apparently QA is a thing of the past and companies that don't engage in it need to be punished for it.
In my experience all that new government legislation will do make a bad situation worse.
@@ghost307 Sure. So what is the Free Market solution to this? Let people continue to get screwed over by companies until those companies go out of business and the customer is really screwed?
@@patreekotime4578 Do your due diligence and don't buy questionable products.
I just bought a Juicenet (September 2023) because my local power company (the same as yours in the Portland, Oregon area) gave me a rebate of $4,300 to have it installed and upgrade my electric panel. The rebate covered all but about $900 of the work. In order to qualify for the rebate, one is required to use one of two suppliers for the charger, and enroll in their power saving program for emergency peak power consumption remediation. I am stuck with it for 2 years now. But, so far it is working fine for my needs. I am not casting shade on anything you said. I am now more concerned, however, about some of the things you mentioned than I was before. Thank you.
I also appreciate your validation of the issues with Enel X. They really degraded my experience, and the only thing their customer service agent can say is "I'm sorry".
I would be very interested in seeing you retrofit your JuiceBox with Open EVSE. It's an interesting product that I would love to learn more about - and if I can make it work for my needs, I'd be happy to convert my two JuiceBoxes to Open EVSE.
I have a lot of problems with the new application. Having a Hyundai Ionic, it is difficult to not fully charge with the new app. A lot of times it doesn't work well so it is full when it shouldn't be. Pain in the ...
I thought the hardware was failing when my Juice Box started acting up and not charging reliably. After reading about the issues online and seeing there was no good resolution from Enelx I replaced it with an OpenEVSE. Fortunately, I also have a Tesla charger that I was able to use with a TeslaTap when I needed to be sure my i3 would get a full charger.
I just started working on integrating with my Home Assistant and Enphase solar system. I saved the cables from the Juice Box to use with a second OpenEVSE to install at my brother's house.
Thanks for this - we (in Canada) have a Juicebox Pro 40 that keeps our 2017 Fiat 500e well nourished through its type 2 charger. We have no need to share, and the Fiat doesn’t like to charge from load-sharing chargers such as FLO chargers with an AAB serial number (those with AAA are said to work fine). We don’t use any smart features of the JB and it sounds as if we may not be able to if variable rate charging comes to BC.
I was one of the original Kickstarter funders of the plain vanilla JuiceBox around a decade ago. It has been working perfectly through two Volts and now my nearly new 2021 Bolt. The only change I had to do to accommodate the Bolt was to upgrade my circuit breaker from 20 to 40 amps.
I share this because the original dumb box with no Wi-Fi or Bluetooth is perfect for my needs. Keep It Simple Stupid!
I bought my Juicebox back in 2019, for the specific reason to limit charge level to my 2019 Souk EV Limited, for some unknown reason Kia dropped the maximum charge level in the infotainment system (from the 2018 version) so you could no longer limit charging to 80% or what ever level you want to set. Yes I to had issues with this years notice of the app update, but nothing on Juicebox firmware update. I had some issues logging in but that lasted a day, and now I am on BC Hydro's Peak Saver program, so when the utility has high demands my charging pauses. Had issues initially to resume charging but finally figured that out when I need to override the demand peak charging pause when I had urgent need to charge. I still have Siemens 32 amp dumb charger that I got from KIA in its original box which I may give to my sister when I finally get here to buy an EV! I have even the tout bag when I use to bring it along on my long road trips to visit family before I got my 2023 Tesla Model Y AWD which I have their portable charger so now Mr. Juicebox does not get to go on vacation!
I have the JuiceBox 40 and was also force-upgraded to the new software and firmware. Luckily I have had only one issue with it which appeared the instant the update was done: Plugging in does not immediately start a charge session or start the timed charging (if activated), but only after a 10 to 70 second delay. I have three EVSEs and the JB40 is the only that does this so I know it's not my EV (a 2018 Kia Soul EV+). On my other two EVSEs (the granny charger that came with the car and a portable level 1/2 charger I bought on Amazon) as soon as you plug in you can either hear the contactors engage within a few seconds or the middle charge indicator on the dash start blinking to let you know it is in standby mode (until the allotted charge time is reached). But with the JB40, there is no contactor engagement or blinking light for at least 10 seconds and sometimes (inexplicably) up to 70 seconds or so. It's annoying but I've learned to live with it. I also would not recommend the JB40 for that very reason. I imagine new owners would think it is defective and return it.
Mine did the exact same thing.
@@jennexercise5623If this delay happens on most EVs, it's amazing that this behavior wasn't seen during their testing of the new firmware. (Unless they didn't actually test it!)
If you were in the UK, this would fall udser s.15 of the Consumer Protection App (regarding software bundled with devices reducing functionalty)
The USA has similar laws and a supercomplaint to the FTC is probably in order
Hello. Long time channel supporter and ally here. I'd love to learn more about your 3:35 *RAGE AGAINST* the garage door opener company. I've often wanted an app that gives me status and can open/close my garage door.
RATGDO? That's easy ;) github.com/PaulWieland/ratgdo
I'm in a multi-family residential building in Los Angeles with 30 Juicebox Enel-X chargers. We've had all the same issues. About 20% of the residents had switched to EVs in the last few years. Now, seeing all these issues, we have lost any momentum in getting more people to move to EVs and some with EVs are even considering going back to ICE vehicles.
My recommendation is install an OpenEVSE control board. The board only option is cheap compared to any alternative options. Excellent community and forum support.
I'd expect there are a number of other EV drivers wanting the dual power charing ability just like you. Talking to the OpenEVSE project developers asking what it would take ($$) to have the feature implemented could get it done in little time. Cost would be minimal if a group of EV drivers all chipped in a small donation for the feature.
It's too bad that hardware just doesn't keep working the way it should without needing an internet connection. Unfortunately this is the all to common when a company get acquired, support for older products are tossed aside, as if the customers do not exist. (not a smart business strategy)
In the same boat, really. We bought our Juicebox back in ~2020 or thereabouts, and until the switch was pretty satisfied. And while we have 2 cars, we only charge one at a time, so the "new" firmware is just a nuisance and not a real deal-breaker. But like you, I can no longer recommend - there are others out there, but I have no direct experience with them, so I don't know what to recommend right now. The notion of flashing your own firmware is one that crossed my mind - it just wasn't high enough on my list to actually do.
To some extent the ability to monitor electricity used is less of an issue for me since I installed the Emporia Vue in our panelbox - in one app, I can see the solar production, the EVSE usage, and for that matter any other electrical usage in the house. At the moment, I am quite content with that, and I suppose if the Juicebox completely died tomorrow, I would contemplate the Emporia EVSE to replace it. But Emporia potentially has the same problem - closed-source firmware uploading data to the cloud. And at some date in the future, a corporate acquisition might nerf that thing too. Or they might go out of business - you never know what will happen a few years down the road. That unit uses the ESP32 processor, and there are already people playing with custom firmware (ESPHome).
Yes, ours also been taken over by Xway, I figured they sold out to another company so they can claim the EV charging credits for cash.
I also much preferred the previous app and setup.
Thanks for your experience being shared.
Dave in Delta, BC Canada
I have a JuiceBox model that I think is a generation before yours. Had some troubles “upgrading” to the new EnelX app. Once I got it working I set it to full power and to charge all the time, then do the scheduling or power limiting from within the Tesla app. Not ideal but it’s a workaround
I have a four-year-old Juicebox which worked flawlessly with my 2019 Honda Clarity PHEV. A year ago I purchased a Tesla model Y and for a while it worked just fine with the hardware adapter Tesla provided. Then problems began. I began to get random messages from the Tesla app that charging had been stopped due to communication errors with the JuiceBox. Now it seems to be an intermittent problem (which is perhaps the most infuriating possibility). I don’t know whether or not I can trust JuiceBox to charge at night when rates are lowest. I’m at the point planning to replace the JuiceBox. Thanks to your video I won’t be purchasing from the Mega Corporation that bought JuiceBox and ran it into the ground.
That would be fun to see @Louis Rossmann to talk about it
My 6 year old eMotorWerks JuiceBox was recently fried during a Thunderstorm. Even with help from the ENEL-X support and percussion style treatment, it could not be reset. They said they would not repair it, since it’s past the warranty.
So I ordered a Tesla wall charger, in anticipation of NACS becoming the universal standard. Done.
I strongly agree with the need for local control and intelligent load sharing. We have 2 ev’s and need smarter load balancing. I have a concern about reflashing EVSE microcontrollers with firmware than may not be UL tested and approved. I’ll be on the lookout for EVSE units with open published API to use with Home Assistant. Tesla wall connectors, with newly announced open API look like they might fit my needs.
There's really no such thing as "UL-tested" firmware, nor will it cause any particular risk in your installation. Once companies get UL certification for a piece of hardware, firmware updates are not generally considered triggers for requiring another round of UL testing.
The worst that will happen is that you pop the breaker on the shared circuit. Don't worry about it.
-Matt
My favorite takeaway was that you monitored your local grid to charge mainly when renewablw proportion was highest. I'd love more discussion about how people do that, and also how power companies like SDG&E encourage fossil heavy charhing by aligning super offpeak rates with the dirtiest time (12am-6am in a solar heavy state)
That is the low power demand time. It depends how much solar is installed in your jurisdiction.
My jurisdiction banned new grid-scale solar installations because they want to double down on Natural Gas.
Hrm. PG&Es off-peak is generally midnight to 3pm or so, but PG&E tends to really distort the on-peak rates when giving discounts on the off-peak rates, usually to the point where it is not beneficial unless you can reliable net-zero the entire partial-peak and on-peak periods (usually 4pm to 9pm or 3pm to midnight, depending).
So for the E-ELEC 2024 tariff, it is $0.42/kWh off-peak summer, $0.36/kWh off-peak Winter, and $0.64/kWh on-peak summer (and a bit less on-peak for winter).
For the normal E-TOU-C Tariff it is $0.63 and $0.49 off-peak and $0.62 on-peak (and again a bit less for winter).
For the default E-1 Residential tariff, which is Tiered (so you pay more when your consumption is higher), Tier-1 is $0.42, Tier-2 and Tier-3 is $0.53.
I am grandfathered into ETOU-B which is $0.48 and $0.43 off-peak and $0.60 on-peak summer (and a bit less winter). Which means it doesn't make much sense for me to change to E-ELEC until I am able to really net-zero all on-peak and all partial-peak consumption, including through winter. All or nearly-all. Not yet 😞
--
What's funny about this whole thing is that the PG&E "compare rates" feature which runs like the last 12 months of your bill through all the tariffs available to you all come within 5% or so of each other in terms of total Bill. PG&E has designed the rate structures to take their pound of flesh pretty much no matter what you do. It LITERALLY doesn't matter which schedule I choose, which makes the whole concept of having different tariffs for adjusting your usage mostly worthless.
So pretty much the only way to reduce your bills is to consume what you generate with solar. And yes, those can be huge reductions in your bill. Its just that the tariffs don't really help or improve things. By the time I am able to load-shift pass the non-off-peak periods I will have already reduced my bill so much that switching to another tariff won't matter anyway. Not even switching to E-ELEC with its $0.36/kWh rate will matter a whole lot because I just won't be eating a ton of grid power anyway at that point.
-Matt
off topic, but i love the PowerBook G3 in the background. I had a Pismo that was an absolute tank of a laptop that got me through college
I have a dumb level 2 charger. So I don’t have any issues, but I have been burned before with products that were either app only connected (no controls on the device other than power) that then lost App support (becoming a paperweight), or internet connected and the device went unsupported and is unuseable now
Sounds like a typical case of take and break, I assume there has been an ownership/control change that enabled the evil clowns to get their oily mitts on the reins. Sad story, thanks for sharing. Hope to hear from you of a successful work-around in the future. I wonder if a class-action lawsuit could be brought against the company or management?
Oooh, first time hearing about openEVSE, looks neat. Currently using a Grizzl-E after my refurb Juicebox started on fire internally, along with the stuck relay problem they usually have.
I have a Juicebox Pro 40 (black aluminum box, leds, ZentriOS] and have become increasingly annoyed by the Enel X Way app even though my evse is still working for me. Since all the hardware is in there, I think what we need is some open source firmware to flash into that thing. I'd speculate that the hated firmware updates only went onto the Zentri module and perhaps that's what needs to be addressed.
"RatsBottom" is the new name for our Rancho!
'Rancho Ratbottom' 😂
Thanks for mentioning OpenEVSE.. did not know about them before very cool - we will eventually need a 2nd home charger so that might just do the trick.. A little pricey for the assembled kits though.. Also I get that it's annoying that people constantly recommend Tesla products but in many ways Tesla mirrors Apple in terms of their success, walled garden approach and slick "just works" hardware - easy to get comfortable with. I do however strongly agree with your opensource predilection..
While the price of an assembled OpenEVSE is on the high side compared to closed-source mass-market units, bear in mind that you can actually repair it or replace ANY component of it; that's not possible with most of the alternatives. We own three of them, oldest is 2017, no issues except the oldest one's nozzle melted a pin and I replaced the nozzle and cord -- it was originally supplied to OpenEVSE by QC Power and was substandard for continuous 40A operation, which is what my EV can pull.
Message your governor to do this: California state law (Civil Code section 1947.6) requires landlords to approve tenant requests to install EV charging stations in their dedicated parking spaces so long as the tenant is willing to pay for the charging station and associated costs, including installation and utility costs.
This is very interesting and important to me, because I have an Enel X First gen white case juice box.
Initially, I wanted to and try to connect it to my apartment Wi-Fi, but my signal was too far away and wouldn’t connect. I just have the one, so I don’t need any special load-balancing. And when I time the charging, I used my car built-in scheduler instead of what’s in the juice box.
As result, I think I’ve only ever connected it to the Internet once, when it was first installed. And then maybe a second time when I was trying to see if putting a Wi-Fi hotspot in my car would allow to work.
I’m glad I don’t use that regularly. Because it sounds like there’s a chance that I’ve been transitioned to the new app, it would have essentially broke the charger, and it would take five times or more as long to charge. That would honestly be unacceptable in many circumstances.
Have you mentioned the video, this is unacceptable. And one of the reasons why I don’t like cloud connected devices. I’m already in the habit of not connecting some of my video editing tools to the Internet, because either windows will be forced to update, the software will be forced to update. And then suddenly the tool that I need in order to earn my living is no longer viable, or I will have dozens of hours of debugging to get it to work.
This is not a good way for electric cars to work, and frankly is not a good way for any device to work.
the unfortunate take away from this: it's a lot more effort than I am willing to do for something that should just work. I am a believer in EV's and plan on my next vehicle purchase to be an EV. But if I have to learn software, coding, learning how to internet block etc. etc. It become a major barrier to entry into the market. One that will cause me to pump the brakes before jumping in.
The solution is simple. Get a basic EVSE. Nothing to learn. Wire it in or have it done if you lack the skills to do it on your own, turn on the breaker and just let it do its thing. I'm with you on not having to go to college and get a masters degree to simply charge a car. I'm exactly in your camp. My EVSE has no fluff, and just works with that satisfying clunk of the relay contacts reliably closing every single time I plug in. No banging, no mussing, no cussing, not apps, no wifi, no bother, no worries. EVs are a car at the end of the day, and I damned well expect to use it the same as I would any of the ICE cars that I've been systematically removing from my "fleet" of personal vehicles.
Our first charger was a free Blink provided by the government (the charger was free, but we had to pay for the installation and the electrician overcharged us to make up for getting stiffed on the charger). What a disaster, multiple software faults, zero-null-nada product support. Replaced it with a no-name charging cord which worked fine for about a year, and then failed. Ended up buying a "dumb" Bosch charger identical to the one our local Chevy dealer uses. Paid a bit extra for the name, but it does what we need, no fuss reliable charging. Plug the car in and after a few hours it is ready to go. All I had to do was screw it to the wall and plug it in.
I've been having my JuiceBox's contactor stick due to our crappy utility, but all I've needed to do was unplug it and plug it back in again. Mine isn't WiFi capable because I have no interest in linking/tracking it. If it works, then KISS applies for me.
I had issues getting my Juicebox to work with the app as well. I put in a ticket, got a mail or two that never worked. Then they sent me a mail asking if I was satisfied, I gave them a failing grade. Apparently at that point the Support person tracked down who actually could fix the problem and had them fix it to get a better rating. So, the new software can work but, it is way more of a pain to get working than it should be.
I have a JuiceBox Pro 40, what a pain in the ass it was. We got two replacements, but eventually it was out of warranty and we were stuck with it. It's now sitting in a box after having replaced it with a Grizzl-E Classic, but since then I've seen your "percussive maintenance" fix so haven't yet thrown it away. What a nightmare and waste of money.
So many JB contactor failures -- there are vids and repair guides just for the JB's contactors R&R! Under-designed.
It seems like the best way to end this madness would be to have companies clearly state when software support ends for specific devices, or to go back to the days when what you bought was what you got. Maybe we need to allow for egregious bug fixes, but to have teams continually working on code for 5+ year old devices is crazy.
In the era of apps being required for functionality, someone has to keep that offsite server updated and running, and that's where your analogy of "you bought it, you own it" falls down.
The workaround is to run your own server so your mobile can have that "app" feeling, but this is beyond the ken of most consumers.
@@alsavage1 obviously for ‘you bought it you own it’ to work it shouldn’t be connecting to an external server. Ideally, none of your home automation devices should be depending on an external server. I’m even going to argue they shouldn’t be internet facing. If some kind of home server or hub is required we should be able to make that happen without giving outside actors n points of access to our network.
They did not end software support. They forced all customers onto a new app that is buggy and a big downgrade. New units and old units use the same app.
Loved my JB Pro 40 until EnelX ruined it with their software. I even quickly and easily replaced the relay after using the “bang on it” approach for a while, but the software became completely unreliable. Replaced it last year with an Emporia which has been rock solid, but runs the same future-change risk.
We are blessed to have two locations where we need chargers. One unit is a ChargePoint, the other a JuiceBox because of supply chain issues when we installed. Big mistake. ChargePoint has issues, but the Juice Box app does not work well at all. They are relatively new units. It will be a bummer to have to replace the JuiceBox.
Nordic track and ifit reach into machines and remove capabilities too, it's insane.
This is why I have a third party bike with sensor. Admittedly, it’s more per month now than I’d like after fees for Peloton went up but…
I bought a evse that can plug into any 240v Nema 14-50 outlet. At my last place I never had any issues with it. There I installed the outlet mostly my self, it had a basic 50amp breaker in it.
At my new, recently built up to code, place it keeps popping the breaker, sometimes when it's not actively charging, but still plugged into the car.
In my research I've found that a GFCI breaker, could be the cause. Is that something yall have heard and can back up? I trust you more than random internet forums.
I suppose the breaker could just be bad, or maybe the evse itself is dying. Though I don't use it all that much and it's less than 5 years old.
Wow, as a PGE customer who recently signed up for their charger rebate, I feel like a dodged a bullet. I almost went enel x for the future upgrade of power sharing. It was the electrician who did the work who swayed us toward chargepoint for reliability reasons. That being said, I find it more convenient to use my car to control the charging schedule since it knows its state of charge and can figure out when to charge to finish by the morning.
Still though, this is a sobering reminder that there is no internet-connected product safe from the company arbitrarily deciding to break existing functionality via a firmware upgrade and walking away from the whole thing.
Zigbee is ok for lights in Homeassistant :) On the other hand, I use homebrew on "you guessed it" :D
So happy I went with a “dumb” ClipperCreek Share2. It is true that I have little way to control it, but that will remain the same as long as it continues to function.
I was in the same situation as you. I went back to the old app and now is working! If they push me to go back to the "new" app I will buy something else.
Thats why i like my united chargers Grizzl-e evse. Simple basic operation. It doesn't have energy tracking so youd have to add that to your breaker panel if you really wanted to monitor that. But i can mostly do that from the Tesla as it tallies how much AC charging has been done.
They also have a duo unit that shares power between 2 plugs but again, no smart features.
If I didn't get the Grizzl-e, I'd get an OpenEVSE.
I love my Siemens Versacharge. It's at least 10 years old. I got it used 6 years ago. Dumb as a box of rocks, and it will always stay that way because there's no internet connection to change anything.
3:07 jellyfin? never heard of it. gotta check it out...
Thank you for this video!!! I have a JuiceBox Pro40 from like 2017 and it was great till late last year when I was forced to change over. It's horrible. I also have a Chamberlain garage door opener so I'm unhappy on both. Do we need a RatEVSE :)? Enel-X stinks.
former Enel X support, here - they enshittified the employee experience too 👍
Wow.Thanks for letting us know that one. we’re onwards and upward with our project… :)
Well, that's one way to screw up a company...
We have an 'old' juicebox, and I agree with your conclusions. This is why I am looking into a Tesla multi-connector station, to allow chargine both our Smart For Two ED and Tesla Model Y. ... Sigh, I do miss the old JuiceNet software.
I have not made any change yet, and use the basic function of the JuiceBox. But I am interested in what comes out of this community appeal!
OpenEVSE seems like the way to go.
And just in general, I'm not a huge fan of devices needing a cloud-based service to fully function. I think long term companies need to have open standards to communicate with those cloud services and users should be able to change those cloud services.
And it should also be relatively easy to update the software on them (an SD card or something like that).
All that is a bit beyond the scope of chargers though - this would be true for smart TVs, fridges, etc.
I've three OpenEVSEs, the oldest is 2017. They have an ESP for local Wi-Fi (oldest have ESP8266; newer have ESP32) and can have their IP set static, so you can point your mobile's browser to its web interface for local control -- if you even need local control. For most people, plug-n-charge is good enough.
For remote control, though, outside your home, you'll need to do port-forwarding at your home's router. Most people want to download an app and have it "just work", with the trade-off of . . . an app, which someone else maintains or abandons, and which leads to the JuiceBox situation.
If you don't need the EVSE to load-share a single circuit between multiple EVSEs, monitor solar/green energy availability and tell the EV to draw more or less power on a dynamic basis, or have the EVSE do scheduled charging (most EVs can do that on their own), then any old dumb EVSE can do the job.
The OpenEVSE is somewhere between dumb and cloud-smart. And they can be repaired at the component level.
I've had a JuiceBox for 4 years and it worked flawlessly until this month. Not happy about what has happened. My JuiceBox was given to me by my local utility company so I'm not out any money but now may have to fork out for a new device.
I’ve used public charging stations for the past three years and am looking forward to the day that my Freeholders add charging stations at Garden Court.
Can you point us to some of those ESP32-based projects you mentioned? My searches are failing. Thanks.
You bought it, you own it so it's yours to do with what you want.
I'd say flash the chip with older software that works and regain control for the short term. Someone in the community may rewrite the firmware to be open source again.
As for the ESP 8266, it's the older and less capable processor compared to the ESP32 family of processors.
I was able to get Enelx to roll me juiceboxes back to the old software very early on. My initial support ticket focused on the fact that I had one power limited down and in the upgrade that limit got removed. That's a fire risk. It wasn't my fire risk, but there are absolutely users out there for which it is. Anyway I'm still on the old juicenet software and Home Assistant is still talking to it, but who knows how much longer.
Worst of all is that the new, let's call it third party API... seems to depend on the fact that Enelx is communicating unencrypted for something that has the ability to burn down your house. Let that sink in for a bit.
You turned comments on again :) That is great. I just re-subscribed. Thanks for allowing a dialog with your viewers again, instead of trying to monopolize what political message you want to bring across. I don t mind political content, as long as you allow your users to respond. Glad that I can be back as one of your viewers : )
We haven’t turned off comments for a very long time
We are definitely disappointed by out JuiceBox charging stations - we have both the first generation (half cylinder) model and the newer Pro model. The latter had been replaced under warranty *twice*; but then it stopped having the problem. But then about a year+ later - it died after a series of power outages. And the old one that was still working, (but didn't have the wireless connection) when I stored it away in favor of the new one - also failed to function when I plugged it in.
So we had to buy a new unit - we decided to get the Tesla Universal Wall Connector.
How beautiful you explained it. Thank you for sharing. Love to see more
Last Night my Juicebox 40 issued the 5 beeps of death (this code reflects the high current relay / actually contactor is welded closed and needs to be replaced), so they offered a $100.00 credit on a new purchase as my Juicebox is just past the 3 year warranty, not happy with this company that they provide a substandard contactor - the proper name for a high current relay). I am a certified electronics technician and yes I can repair it but I just might get the awesome Tesla NACS / J1772 EVSE (oh lets just call it a combo EV charger). I am sitting on the fence hate to throw away an otherwise fine charger.
I've been using one of the original black-half-a-pipe JuiceBox chargers which was touted as fully open source hardware and software. Well, now the sources of documentation and firmware are all dead links. I managed to rewire the plug with a Mennekes Type 2 handle and a 150 ohm resistor as I prepare my 914 with new Tesla battery modules and an upcoming shipment to my new home in Spain. I'm disappointed that it's an orphan now and Enel has done such an abysmal job in all of the older products. I think it's beyond incompetence into sheer malice.
I am wondering why you want all these phone apps and such like. I have a garage door opener with a button in the car and another hard wired button in the garage. I can't imagine having to dig my phone out to open/close the garage door, particularly since my phone is in a drawer at home 99% of the time. I guess it is a generational thing. I was over 50 before I got my first flip phone and into my 60s before I got a "smart" phone. Now even with a smart phone I use my phone to make phone calls when I am away from home and don't have any "apps" on it that I use.
As far as "internet connected" gadgets go, avoiding internet connectivity was the main reason I opted to build my own backup home power system/solar system from components rather that buy a commercial system like the Tesla powerwall. What it comes down to it that I just don't get why everything in your house needs to communicate with anything at all, but then my primary phone is still a land line - not a newfangled push button one either.
oh I love that home assistant ford card!... Need to find that :-)
I would really like to see regulations that all IoT require an open system permitting competitive or open source services. Ideally flexible enough to run the server-side on the home LAN.
Once a favorite, JuiceBox charging stations disappoint with recent issues. Considering alternatives
This is why I don't use IoT crap that relies on a central server. On Home Assistant you want to look for support for "local" integrations.
12:35 Blocking Internet access is probably a good idea for Iot devices. If the "local" integration is working: only Home Assistant would need internet access (for remote access)..
There is a reason why this sort of technology is called bleeding edge. I aged out of that world some time ago, but I wish you luck.
I have been using a dumb 40 amp Clipper Creek for over 2 years so far. Since our electricity is the same price 24/7 I just plug it in before bed time.
Has anyone heard if anything will have to be done on Chevrolet Bolt 2023 other than the adapter for it to work on tesla?
Guessing that since the old app is still 'connected' that this may be blocking the new app. (Like you are still logged in on the juice boxes) - Really unfortunate and frustrating!