Ep. 278 | Concealed Carry Red Dot Sight Considerations
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- Опубліковано 19 бер 2023
- Red dots, like the Vortex® Defender-CCW™, are the future of concealed carry sighting systems. But there are considerations when going this route. Mark Boardman and Jimmy Hamilton bring on Vortex Edge® instructor, Brennan Brennecke, for a red-hot red dot discussion.
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Been shooting pistols for over 20 years. Going to dots was well worth the time to learn them.
Jimmy Hamilton. Hater of 1911’s, M1 garands , and iron sights on pistols.
First off, I have two defenders,and love them! I understand the logic behind the 14 shut-off. Many LEO's work 12 hour shifts, and that means that the next time they pick it up will be before it shuts off. It'll be lit 24 hours a day. Just a thought.
Wish it fit the RMR footprint, but glad you guys finally have a shake awake micro red dot. I like the textured surface on this red dot for slide racking off different surfaces.
Hopefully you come out with this in a Green Dot soon too!!!
I think you guys have a great product, but.... In general(industry wide) why do they make such long auto shut off times. If I'm wearing the gun it's always on, if I pick it up-it's on before I get it to my eye. Why do I need it to stay on for 14 hours after I've set it down-if it's going to turn on right as I pick it up. Am I missing something? Seriously isn't 30 min. A bit more reasonable? And it would(seemingly) extend battery life? Please let me know if I'm missing something.
❤ great information on the red dots wasn’t too familiar. You guys straighten it out for me thank you.
With the S&W M&P 9 Shield Plus in particular, the optics ready version currently comes with some pretty nice night sights, so even if you have no interest in mounting an optic on it, you may be interested in the other features included for the slightly higher cost. I know I was.
It’s true using red dots makes you a better shooter with iron sights. I’m able to shoot with both eyes open, target-focused with either sights. It takes practice!
I like how you guys can talk about one of your products alongside a general topic. It makes me want the vortex option without feeling like I'm being sold on it lol
Do convergence and divergence eye exercises to help pick up sights clearer and quicker. Astigmatism can definitely be an issue with red dots especially on low light.
My astigmatism is why I won't consider a red dot.
I'm a big Vortex fan but that 14hr auto shutdown means they have zero faith in their "shake awake" when the standard is 2-3 min
30+ years of shooting - obviously with irons. At 55 my age caught up with my eyesight and shooting became very frustrating. So much so I was preparing myself for the day when I would hang ‘‘em up. Too many variables! multi focal plane eyeglasses (progressives) trying to focus on a front sight and checking target at distance (5 yards, 7, 15, 25?). Was becoming impossible!! 😖. Pistol reddots have pushed that day off for the foreseeable future and made shooting all new. New techniques to learn. All good stuff. A 6 moa dot dials down the information overload (aka the Shakes). and seems to work best for Defensive shooting IMHO
I really like the idea of the frame of the red dot being a functional rear iron sight, might come up with a red dot package that includes the correct height front sight to cowitness.
You guys talking about “diaper bags”… I had a 5.11 rush 12 that I used as a diaper bag when my kiddo was a baby… my wife had her bag… I had my bag… I had an IFAK and spare mags in mine… it was a great diaper bag…
About the yardage to zero at with your red dot pistol if you take the time to get the velocity of your ammo put the numbers needed into 4dof or some other ballistic calculator and do the numbers I found with my Mossberg MC2sc if I zeroed in at 9 yds it rezeroed at 50 yds and never went over 1” higher getting to 5 yds then did not drop bellow 1 “ until 70yds from 70 yds to 100 yds it dropped to 5.70 inches and ended up being 2” at 80 - 4” at 90 and say 6” at 100yds so from 0 to 70yds the deviation is less than plus or -1 inch from 70 yards to 100 it’s a matter of 2” 4” 6” If you do the numbers you will find a sweet spot and you won’t be chasing your tail by trying or should I say guessing at where you should zero at different yardages one thing you will find is if you zero at 25 yds you will have more drop at 100 yds on my pistol from 5.73” to 8.36” I know it’s a defensive pistol I am never going to shoot it at 100 yds but if you ever HAD to it would be nice to know where to aim. I also did the calculations for an sig p365 xmacro and Walther PDP full size 5” and both of these pistols did better being zeroed at 10 yds
One issue I have run into is the red dot housing is in the way in allowing to cant the gun when carrying 3 o’clock with micro size concealed carry guns
Walther pdp 4.5" with an SRO and a TLR7A. Can't get any better.
I wish vortex would make a round red dot instead of the square options to compete with the sro
Buttons needed to be recessed
being disabled I can shoot but getting my hand in front of my face takes a while. so for fast self defense shots I have an instant on green laser. but I do enjoy useing a red dote when at the range
There is also companies making base plates for your dove tail non optic ready slide. It’s about 1/3 of the price of getting it milled out and they have footprints for just about every red dot.
I ordered a venom 2 weeks ago that I was on the fence about because it did not have shake awake. And now vortex comes out with one 🤦♂️
Will an EMP blast render a red dot optic useless?
Seems like maybe the edge folks can explain how the buttons vs auto-brightness works in a defensive shooting situation.
When I draw, how can I adjust the sight to a visible brightness. I’m always going indoors to out, dark to light during a normal day. Seems like auto-brightness is important. If not important to Vortex, how do I compensate without exposing my pistol constantly? Is one setting good 99% of the time somehow??
Also, what is the water/dust intrusion rating?
Is there a drop rating like 4lb gun can drop 3’ on the top of the sight or something? It would be cool to see Vortex strut their stuff and show it was CCW proof!
“Why get anything that isn’t an optics ready platform?”
I literally bought a brand new Glock 43X MOS and a standard 43X slide assembly so I could have a direct mill setup. (The non MOS 43X doesn’t have a lug for a weapons light) I hate the plates on optics. Direct mill is the gold standard.
I Will stick with my handgun iron sights. Tried a red dot on my EDC appendix, the glass usually got dirty from the clothing material also from my body heat. Tried to pull it out on a cd night and got foggy. So big no no on my EDC appendix.
Defender is s perfect match for the arex delta.
Reason to train with red dot off is if it FAILS, ALL TECHNOLOGY FAILS. I use a red dot on a dagger from holosun and I’ve gotten good with it but I’ll point out now that everything can break so train for that possibility
Agency Arms does this exact milling/plate that he was talking about @42 minutes in.
Are there any red dot optics for pocket carry pistols?
especially the really small pistols...
Don't like the 14hr off time, nor the buttons on the side. I had a Venom with the buttons on the side and my holster kept hitting the buttons or turning it off. Ideal setup? Shake awake with 2-5 minutes, auto brightness, a green dot option. Basically, a swampfox sentinel with the apparent durability of this housing.
Please fix the 14 hour sleep time. What’s the point of shake awake if the dot never goes to sleep? This will be on people daily carry after all, right? Then maybe it can compete with the Holosuns.
That is a bit strange, but makes sense. I like the idea of full power off or auto off, shake awake. That said, with 9500 hr battery life, why bother with an on off button! I hope that is on max brightness. Maybe it would be a better use of development $$$ to get to 30k hour battery life.
@Vortex Nation, just wondered why Vortex opted to have the auto shutoff turn off after 14 hours and why not 5 or 7 min time frame? You would come to think the there will be more battery life to a red dot sight that auto shuts off at a shorter period of time. My Sig 365XL with Romeo red dot auto shut off's in 5 min. Does it have to do with pattent infrigement?
The 14-hour shutoff time was designed with the needs of LEO’s and individuals carrying a weapon for personal protection in mind. The thought behind it: If a 10-12 hour shift ended up running longer than anticipated, we did not want to present a situation in which the Defender was not ready to go. As a redundancy, in the unlikely event that the motion activation feature some how did not engage, that individual would still have a dot presented.
I'm not buying any more open emitters. Blowing out the open emitter with compressed air or cleaning it with a q-tip is not a desirable feature. Pleased make a closed emitter.
As an instructor who has also taught many people firearms and annual training for Leo’s I have found them to be slow to acquire for critical situations in training, iron sights are simply faster and as far as sights moving or falling off, anything hung attached needs to be inspected regularly. Teaching new shooter red dots is lazy and shows a lack of competence is training new shooters, I have never ever had an issue getting a new shooter to understand iron sights and use them proficiently. I like red dots as fun range toys but other than that, they definitely aren’t as good as iron sights and that’s seeing how they perform from many different skill
Levels of shooter including defense contractor spec ops training and instructors.
Red dots are a weird cheat device. They are like using classic peep sights of rifles. Peep sights become a window and you concentrate on the front sight and target more.
Is that foot print the same as a rms_- c
Mark could be the son of Ken Coleman (the Ken Coleman Radio Show) they look and sound so similar
I have a RMR 2. I also have a severe astigmatism. My 3 MOA dot looks like a firework the of a pencil eraser. I want to move to a dot but what I have doesn't seem usable. Any advice? I am going to try to get into the optometrist for a new prescription and see if/how much that helps. I don't know if a prism would work on a pistol or not?
Swampfox sentinel with a green dot
Look through a Holosun set on the "circle only" function.
Slide works engineering in TX will cut fir mos or exact floor plate
At 45.00 minutes: gentlemen you have reached the point where shooting groups has devolved to shooting patterns 🧐.
I don't see red. Do you make a green dot?
If your on the fence just get over it red dots are the best thing since sliced bread get yourself one
¿Could it be that good red dot sights are just beyond the means of many people who would otherwise have them?
Sighting is grip, it’s not about dot vs irons.
I abandoned red dots because of astigmatism. That's it.
What is the flashlight Brennan is carrying off his pistol
Modlite. Likely the PLHv2.
Great to see a new Vortex pistol red dot, and other videos I have watched with drop tests show it to be extremely durable. BUT do you have something similar coming in a full-sized footprint??? A full-size footprint could be a potential duty use optic with this kind of durability.
Can you share a link to drop tests with this sight? That is a traditional weakness with RMRc style sights.
Been shooting for 40+ yrs... I think red dots are a good option but... I have never seen a rear sight "almost fall off"... Either you have a defect or someone doesn't know what they are doing... Three times in one year??? Fly off... fall off... I call Bs. Set'em with blue lock tight... and you NEVER really need maintance. Someone is always trying to seel you something...
Imagine the number of batteries with lots of life left on them going to waste.
If it’s that important to have a light that is longer than your barrel, at least clean it when you go on tv.
That pistol light has cataracts. Everything else you say when your equipment looks like garbage is compromised.
I’m not claiming iron sights are superior at all but literally everything they are saying about iron sight’s is something someone would say who isn’t good with them 😂 “I’ve had more iron sights fails than red dots as long as I do this long list of maintenance and procedures” can you not do that with irons? “When I pull the gun up with a dot it’s right in target because of thousands of reps” can you not do that with irons? “I have to confirm my front sight is in my rear sight and on the target and recheck my front sight and then recheck my rear sight” just shoot target focused with your irons 🤷♂️ at one point I thought the guy was going to start pleasuring himself with the red dot 😂 but I get it they are an optics company pushing their red dot!
Windshield reference, very good.
To be honest i believe a red dot is just a fad. We've all seen products like this over the years that was marketed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. We've already been down this electronic sight road with the laser which i think is even a better option over a red dot.
Can I put it on a shot gun?
Red dots on rifle, ok. Red dot on pistol, nope. What?
I look at a red dot sight as a handicap when it comes to self defense, basically ccw. You are not shooting targets on the range here. Statistically, you're probably going to be at arms length or slightly more when you need to present that weapon. Your probably going to be startled, and it's not going to be like it is on a nice sunny day at the range. You dont moa freekin accuracy at that distance, and you dam sure dont need to be searching for a dam dot in a tiny window when milliseconds count. In my mind that will get me killed. Plus it's making my ccw bigger, print more, and cost more. If I want something to aim at, I will get a lazer, that way I can still use irons.