If you guys liked this video and want to see more like it, let me know what topics you'd be interested in. What I'd like to cover are KH topics that not many people bring up or topics that usually aren't expanded upon or talked about in detail. It doesn't have to necessarily be gameplay related, either.
I've yet to see many, if any, people ask this question, and it's one I'm supremely curious about. Could Master Ava be sleeping inside Kairi's heart? I'm hoping KHMoM has an answer for this, but it'd be the easiest way to explain Naminé looking different from Kairi (ex Roxas and Ven in Sora's heart) and could explain some cryptic stuff from secret reports across the games.
I didn't watch the whole thing yet, so forgive me if you touched on this later in the video. I never saw a lot of people complain about the lack of uniqueness among transformations, I more saw people complain about the lack of resource management, in KH2 drive forms were something you felt like you needed to hold onto till the right moment, FM kinda took that away with how abundant drive recoveries were once you could start doing M13 challenges. Still, you felt the need to save it for when your health was low, or needed your MP restored, or wanted an extra boost of strength for a fight you were having trouble with(looking at you first dancer encounter), in KH3, transformations are just thrown at you for free, along with very powerful magic, and ethers are abundant as hell, every single one of those commands is a "why not" rather than an actual decision.
I mean, 2FM had *Weighty combat with snappy movement *An ability system that expanded player choice and gives immense depth *Drive forms were universal and expanded the importance of smart keyblade decisions for forms. * An actual balance of Final Fantasy and Disney
it also had *no level design to speak of at all *massive chunks of filler in the story between the opening, the battle of 1000 heartless, and the end *a massive grind to get movement abilities which are mostly useless unless you want to collect puzzle pieces (has anyone ever?) or complete the optional dungeon (this is actually worth it) *incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky *unbalanced spells like magnet and reflect I love KH2FM, but I'm tired of people saying it's the perfect sequel when in pretty much every way other then the combat it's a step back from KH1
@@VivBrodock Oh yeah, the level design is on par with walking through Elementary school hallways with little or nothing to do... But I wouldn't say that everything between the opening and the 1K heartless battle is exactly filler. I mean, you've got Roxas's story, getting your new clothes, going to hallow bastion for the first time, being drip fed small things about the Organization, and occasional Twilight town visits. Also, I might've been that person that got all the puzzle pieces. I wouldn't say any of the bosses are really bullshit either since it is very much possible to go through the entire game without dying once if you're super informed... But yes, I do wish more areas were designed like the Optional Caverns.
@@VivBrodock no one said it's perfect. but why scrap the things that worked about the game, just because other aspects were less than stellar? at no point did this person say it was perfect, he just listed aspects of the game that were really good. why would that get you into a tiff? such an odd response. also, i'm sure quite a few people have collected puzzle pieces to acquire the incredibly useful executive ring and grand ribbon. but seeing you say that 2fm had "incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky", i can only assume that you prefer games where you just get to mash x and then sit back and watch a cutscene.
"you just want games to be sequels to 2FM" yeah i actually would want sequals to games to reiterate and actually build on what made the previous games great
It's sad, really. KH2 was a tremendous leap in quality from KH1, improving in every aspect I'd say, easy, and... for as big a leap as it was, it's like the games after attempted to plunge lower and lower.
@@Peasham The only major downgrade to me was puzzles in the environment and exploration. Combat is snappy and fluid and you have all of your choices in front of you instead of like 33% chance for certain finishers
@@kayaplaaya9875 I initially didn't like 3 but with the all the free patches/dlc, I still haven't gotten Re:Mind, it made the combat a lot more fun for me. It's close to 2fm levels but not entirely there yet imo.
One of the reasons why I really like reactions commands is because it gives the player a relationship with the enemy in a sense. Being able to dynamically use the enemy’s attacks against itself was really cool. Each enemy had their own animation and way Sora interacted with them.
Can't say I agree, personally. Then again, I don't like contextual attacks in any action game. The reason why I don't like them is that they're options you can only use on certain enemies, and when the enemies feel like letting you use them. This means that there's a lot of tools with their own unique utility that you're artificially limited on accessing based on the context of the specific enemies being fought. I much prefer a set of universal tools a player always has access to, so that they could use those tools anytime, more strategically. It's an issue of player agency. It also doesn't help that certain RC sequences play out longer than others, and thus killing the pace of the fight more or less depending on the RC. Not to mention the parts of the game that forces you to use them either out of efficiency or outright necessity. I can appreciate your point on how they create a more unique relationship with the player on a per enemy basis, but I'd say that giving each enemy its own unique move set, health pools, and resistances surface in that regard. Having that extra element to the player and enemy relationship isn't worth the trade-off IMO. To each his own though. TL;DR: Contextual commands limit player agency compared to universal tools.
@@platinumconquest2365 Hmm you make very good points. Maybe Reaction commands would be better if they were activation by performing a perfect guard(like critical counter in KH3). After performing a perfect guard you'd be able to retaliate with a unique counter like risk dodge but instead it'd be unique to the enemy that you got the perfect guard on like a reaction command. Still unique retaliation attacks but given through timing and player skill.
@@platinumconquest2365 I'm going to give you the layman's reason to liking RCs: Bruv I'm just tryna smack shit with a giant key and look cool doing it and Reaction Commands are the coolest things in the game.
@@sonymicronin Even that solution wouldn't solve my issue with RC's. It arguably gives the player a bit more agency, but the issue of locking away tools behind specific enemies remain. I'd like to replace them entirely with a dedicated launch/descend function not bound to the same buttons as other important functions (seriously, how does KH still not a Helm Beaker equivalent at this point?). But if we absolutely had to keep Reaction Commands, I'd rework them to be kind of like enemy souls in Castlevania: AOS. The idea is that enemies have a chance to drop their essence, and Sora can equip those essences to gain an enemy specific reaction command. You could even equip multiple essences to use depending on Sora's state. A land command and an air command for example, maybe more. TL;DR: Either give me a High Time/Helm Breaker button or make reaction commands equipable.
I mean KH2 is the only game i constantly go back to because of how good it is. You don't need to make it exactly the same but you know , don't fix what's not broken ? It's not surprise KH3 became much better to play after some simple abilities were added that made Sora actually fast and satisfying to use. So you don't need to make a 100% copy of KH 2 but i think everyone can like certain mechanics that made such game so good in the first place
It's not even just that there making it different from KH2, there either removing mechanics entirely, not replacing them with anything or with something significantly worse and undercooked
I definitely agree with what you're saying. Honestly there was some stuff in 2fm that I didn't like, like how base Sora's magic felt really slow and and laggy when I'm in a fast paced boss fight that requires good reactions and using magic at the right moment. I really like how KH3 gave Base Sora the abilities to float a little above the ground when casting spells because the magic felt way more mobile and there wasn't so much risk with whipping out a spell or two.
While I do agree that KH2FM's combat is far Superior, I disagree with "if it's not broke don't fix it" because it completely disregards the fact that you can improve something. Oh the first car was made? Well don't improve it. I mean it runs fine right? Improvements are also the reason why things don't get stale. Constantly getting the same thing would get pretty boring. If only we had an improvement of KH2FM. I feel like we don't need an exact replica but just something that feels better. Definitely less floaty imo
definitely this. i appreciate the fixes made to 3s combat with remind but every kh game after 1 has not even compared in terms of platforming and level design to the original game.
Man, even though I appreciate the spirit behind 1FM level design, I find that navigating those worlds are not all that enjoyable. It's difficult to tell where each door or passage way is going to lead you to. Like the Ship in Neverland, or the Caves in Atlantica. The constant back and forth of Deep Jungle. In 2FM is very easy to tell what is going to lead you where, because often times, you actually get to see it beforehand. I think that Cavern of Remembrance brought some of that spirit back and it would've been nice to see more of that. As for KH3, I think that they wanted each world to feel more like a playground, just simple fun.
@@GuilhermeTB1 Well, luckily KH2 onwards had a map as well as the Information bar to tell you where to go next, so a game with KH1's level design like KH3 shouldn't have that problem. Also more movement options even though I personally don't have a problem with the movement in KH1 myself.
@@boxcar9407 it's a mario 64 alternate reality game/creepypasta mix that's where it's from and search up mario 64 iceberg to learn more about this basically tldr is that this is a creepy meme about mario 64 having subtle differences from ai and etc
This goes back to the entire "dont criticize product, just be excited and consume next product" shit that ABSOLUTELY plagued stuff like Pokémon Sword/Shield & TLOU2 defenders. As videogames become more casual and their productions more and more costly due to ever increasing graphical demands by said casual audience, less and less time is soent in development to refine, update and satisfy mechanical and design needs of the game. Twitter is only able to geberalize subjects due to the 280character limitation, therefore you can't broach a subject like you would in a forum or imageboard. Communities turn these cases of extremes where the majority don't want to see complaints, want to attach thwir personalities to a project or company and any one that points flaws is whatever buzzword van be thrown at them, the impact is never made and more and more games are developed as a product over being a videogame. Everything is designed to be safe, unoriginal and basic, nothing more.
I've seen way more people get triggered by people defending TLOU2 as opposed to getting triggered for people complaining about it. Then again, most of the complaints I've seen are, like, lies, so I guess that's not too surprising.
Peasham yea it's mainly the people who really don't want others to like the game, like I've seen some people unironically act like it's one of the worst games ever made and enjoying it makes you a bad person, all the discussion around that game is some of the most vitriolic shit I've seen in gaming, comparing it to the way people criticize KH3 seems more like an insult than anything else
@@elivcdxv1852 The parry thing "kinda" came back with the perfect guard ability included in Critical Mode for KH3... Not even close on satisfaction levels tho lol. Especially parrying Riku-Ansem felt amazing when you figured out his patterns
As a fan of the series since the first game in the series. Its not even about wanting every game to play like KH2. Its the simple fact that KH2 is most balanced game in series. Also the fact that KH2 gave us a game, that casual & hardcore players both enjoyed. And now it's gotten to point that whenever you have an issue with the gameplay in the series it automatically goes to "YOU JUST WANT IT TO PLAY LIKE KH2" even when explaining things like floatyness and hit stun issues in most games post KH2 honestly it's just tiering afterwhile. Just hope that one day people can understand that what KH2 did so well is allow people both ends of the spectrum to enjoy the game.
It's more than just balancing, but yeah. Everyone ik of that dislikes kh3 has legitimate reasons for it and i'm always seeing new ones that make sense, despite not having that problem myself. The people not even trying to have a conversation about it and just poking fun are the stereotypical consumerist drones. They're just very vocal in this community. If it relates to their beloved, likely nostalgia-love tied company, the company and it's product/service can do no wrong and therefore you are wrong. It's tribal in nature, as many other things going on in the world are right now
KH2 isn't the most balanced game in the series, that spot is for KH1. I'm not even talking about cheesing. Like, you receive Trinity limit so early in the game that mob fights turn into a joke (even against large enemies, not counting bosses) and Sora receive so many combo modifiers that your reach a point where you don't even need to use most of your weapons, because base Sora is more than enough to handle everything.
On Situation Commands specifically, I feel like they’d be fine if they just got rid of RNG entirely. Like, yeah I did this cool Fire centric combo, give me my Fire Grand Magic as a reward. I don’t mind building a meter instead of choosing a menu option.
I used to think like this too. “KH3 is perfect you just hate it cause it’s not 2fm” But having played KH3 more, especially on critical. It has genuine problems that Need to be addressed in the future. Is it still fun? Yes. But is it as refined as 2fm? No. Though the Re:Mind superbosses give me hope that Osaka has learned.
my general comment on folks who like kh3 over kh2, who like style and WOW factor over substance, is: I'm glad you're having fun. perhaps you would also enjoy this nice Kaleidoscope
Havent watched the vid yet, but as a kh2fm fan, I wouldn't mind different gameplay changes as long as the mechanics are balanced and the story was at least better.
I actually liked re:chain, tbh. The issue about the topic of "wanting every game to be like kh2" is that it's not correct. That's not what people are saying, people are saying that some games aren't as balanced as KH2, and that's the issue. I'm not gonna write a whole ESSAY on why I don't like Birth by Sleep and KH3 in this comment section, but I ABSOLUTELY could. It's simply comes down to crucial gameplay mechanics not being as refined as the other titles in the series. EDIT: wanted to edit my comment to say that, I've played KH3 and KH2fm back to back lately, and I can definitely see the appeal of people who might like KH3 much more, I believe I had some heavy tunnel vision, KH3 isn't some like, horribly flawed game, and I've had issues in KH2fm that persist in KH3 or, issues only in KH2fm that aren't in 3 that were improved upon. I felt as though I came off pretty poorly. For those who might really just, hate KH3 try and clear your mind before goin' into it, cuz I def had some bias I didn't address. That said, I still think I like KH2FM more for combat.
Well balance and fluidity, casuals don't often consider the ramifications of something as simple as a "turn around" animation fucking up your movement in an action game or why combos/attacks can't be sluggish and too long. Turn around meaning simply turning the character around, say you're playing DMC and you need to turn around fast to hit an enemy, in those games turning around happens instantly but in a game like FFXV they have a whole slow animation for turning around and it breaks flow and movement, it looks smooth but the actual feeling of it is very sluggish. Something as simple as jumping feeling as clunky or choppy as it was in BBS destroys flow and movement.
@@arosbastion7052 Ah, the age old. "Your critique isn't actually valid you're telling a lie" Defense. Classy. Some of us actually liked KH3 but wanted some of Kh2FM's elements in KH3. You know like, precise controls, balanced options, tight revenge value management, combo control, combo mods etc. It's not like we like the individual elements and were sad about specific things, no it's because it isn't numbered the same. Clearly. Almost like, some of us enjoyed aspects of one game, and not another. You know, different opinions and tastes for different people. What a wild thing I know. People like different things. *GASP*
Clone Loli yup animations are way more fluid looking, but more sluggish feeling. Its the drawback to more realism. I like both, i dont really mind, Final fantasy feeling like that, cause i play it more for the story. Also i Hate to be that guy,(not really) but if these games were on PC it would be a-lot smoother feeling.
It's not about wanting every post-KH2 game to be a sequel to KH2 (even though they are, by definition), it's about none of them even attempting to be as good if not better than KH2. Not even FM, base, I'd argue. I don't think it's entitled to expect a sequel to be better than the game before it, I'd even settle for it being just as good, if not just a bit worse. But nah, it's entitled to expect games to be okay nowadays.
To be fair tough after KH2 this isn't the same team so not the same Level of abilities, and to be honnest while not being as good as KH2FM Team Osaka did a massive improvment on the gameplay side with KH3 over BBS and DDD (which were honnestly kind of garbage gameplay wise) and even more with ReMind and for me this prove that at least they care and they are trying, the KH3's Data Org and Yozora were the most fun fights I did in a KH games since my LV1 Run of KH2FM and I praise them for that and I really hope they will continue to improve in that direction.
@@nesoukkefka1741 KH2 isn't the same team... as compared to what? To be completely honest, improving upon BBS and DDD isn't an achievement, it's LESS than the bare minimum one should put into any action game. It's okay to enjoy their combat, or any KH game's combat, but I don't think they stand up to scrutiny. As for proving that they were trying with ReMind, the only thing it proved to me is that Nomura cares more about Versus 13 than Kingdom Hearts. And he can care about it all the wants, mind you, but from most accounts it's his fault that Versus 13 never got made, and I find it despicable that you have to fund the project he ruined KH3 for if you want to have any fun with KH3. Not only is it largely stuff that should've been in the base game (as in, scenes in the base game don't make sense on PURPOSE so they can be finished in ReMind), but then I have to deal with Nomura's baby rage, no, just no. No amount of okay boss design is worth that.
@@Peasham KH2 is handle by Square's Tokyo Team and BBS, DDD and KH3 are handle by Osaka's team, they aren't the same developper. To be perfectly honnest I don't care at all for KH's story, plot wise BBS was disappointing and DDD was straight up garbage, Nomura can do all the bullshit he want at this point it won't change anything, KH's story is a complete mess since a long time and anybody who deny it is just delusionnal, so I don't mind him picking up his lost ideas for Versus XIII in KH at that point plot-wise the KH series is fucked so whatever they pull in it won't change anything. The boss design for Datas and Yozora was great, and while I do agree this DLC is way too expensive, and the story part sucks, but gameplay wise it was enjoyable and free patch they did to improve Sora's base combos was more than welcome.
@@nesoukkefka1741 I mean, I'll be honest, I don't care. Every sequel to Devil May Cry 3 was handled by a different dev team, and yet every single one, even including the one handled by a completely different company, was presentable. Never was there a drop in quality as gigantic as in Kingdom Hearts. Other people handling the sequels simply put is not an excuse. If they weren't fit for the job, others should've developed the sequels. Oh, it is an absolute fucking mess, I mostly just gave a damn about the characters. Funnily enough, it's kinda like DMC, the plots are more often than not trash, but it's the characters that make them shine. I had zero expectations for the plot, but shit, I thought the character would interact with each other. Like, at all. Not only was the setup perfect for fun interactions, it literally makes zero sense that some characters didn't interact with each other. I figured he'd drop the ball on the plot, he's been doing that shit since BBS onwards, but jesus christ, Riku doesn't say a single word to Kairi or vice versa. That's some next level shit if ya ask me, and that's why I don't even wanna think of supporting Versus 13, it's clear he cared more about putting that in the game as opposed to not only the plot of KH3, but the characters of KH3. I wouldn't have bought KH3 had I known it'd go to funding Versus 13, and I'm not about to pay 30 bucks for okay superbosses when regular enemies back in KH2 were designed just as well.
@@Peasham Honestly Limit cut and Secret episode have the best gameplay content in kh history. So calling them merely ok or just as a way to promote versus XIII isnt really fair.
I want utility in options again. Summons, limits, drives and magic all had different uses and modifiers on eachother. 3 was so stale in most everything being just damage only
Stil my biggest gripe about KH3 combat to this day. KH3 Remind only fixed one aspect which was base Sora's physical combos, which while great still makes the combat pale in comparison to KH2FM's versatility and variety. KH3 is like a pocket knife while KH2FM is like a multi tool.
I think they should have kept formchanges and summons (and maybe grand magic, or get the RNG out of the system) as part of a drive bar, and do not give drive recovery. Too often the answer to combat is "spam the overpowered summon, and refresh with ethers", especially in Critical Mode.
@@vadandrumist1670 Drive Recoveries are fine, they were always Menu Only in 2, and its not like they made Tents battle usable, even if the mental image is wonderful
Ignoring the utility of some mechanics in KH3 is the same as saying "only summons are different in KH2, because the rest just damage enemies", which is objectively false. Everything has a different utility in KH3, the problem is that you can't notice that in lower difficulties because doesn't matter what you use, it will always work (pretty much like in every other KH game). The same happens in KH2, if you play in Proud or below you will never need to use other mechanic than base Sora combat, RC, Cure, Thunder and Reflect.
@@Mario_KHX I played 3 crit and beat yozora. I know water has I frames on cast and aero gathers enemies. But you really cant deny that every single option in kh3 is just damage, nothing really separates shotlocks from summons or attraction flow. Or even form changes for that matter. They're all just damage. Agile claws doesnt have any different utility from storm lance or buster hammer or really any form that isnt counter shield. They mostly all do the same thing
KH2FM is to KH3RM as Whole Grain Cereal is to Fruit Loops. One offers more substance and nutrition as opposed to color or sugary flavor, but in the end it’s still just a bowl of cereal. I don’t know, don’t ask why. It came in my head at 2 am I’m tired, ok thanks, great video BB. 👏
@@jazaelperez5213 KH2 combat is like a Multi tool while KH3 is like a pocket knife. KH3 looks sharp and cool but it's combat variety and versatility is narrow. KH2FM'S combat gives you multiple tools at your disposal and each tool has their own merit and distinct use.
@@sonymicronin Yeah honnestly I think it's sad cause at the end of the day no games is perfect there is always some flaws, most people criticing the game and comparing with KH2FM just want the games to be as good or even better than that, which I think is good.
@@nesoukkefka1741 Yeah. We just want an evolution and improvement over KH2FM, not a carbon copy. For many of us KH3 wasn't even bad, it was good but just dissapointing that it wasn't better than KH2FM. In fact, as someone who adores KH2FM and places it in my top 3 games of all time, even I can state some legitimate criticism against it. For example I can say for sure that KH1 and KH3 did world design and interaction and exploration leagues better than KH2. Also I think the Graphics of KH3 are phenomenal, a good evolution of KH2 graphics. It just a shame that combat was worse imo, and for me and others who mainly play and enjoy KH for it's combat that was a huge disappointment.
Well it is also vice versa to be honest. I have seen enough examples that the person who criticize things go completely hyporite when the other guy gives criticism to something else. People like to believe that someone who carefully construct criticism and state facts are very collected people, but if someone else does the same for his or hers favorite media, like 70% of the time they will deny it and call you a liar. So it is just like an endless circle without an end, you can blame the fanboys, but I believe that everyone is a little hypocrite, myself included.
I just realized, 2FM fans have the EXACT same complaints on certain mechanics they wanted as DMC fans who played DMC 4 religiously wanted for DMC 5. KH2 fans will complain about the lack of snappy combos in KH3, as well as the lack of Drive forms, meaningful expression, etc. With DMC fans, they complain about the lack of inertia, no Royal Guard flying, no Turbo mode, and other stuff from DMC 4 that weren't in DMC 5.
Lax C. I feel like we do, since it seems like a logical development for Sora, each transformation has red, blue or yellow and I think green? and then white for the ultimate keyblade
@@Peasham Wait, which unlockables? I'm actually curious about this since besides the Devil Breakers and the second Cavalier I wasn't aware of anything else being paid content (In the context of actual money rather than Red Orbs, anyways.) Aside from that question, still hoping we get a 5SE with more options and a randomish BP option like DMC3 had.
Well said. - I recently played through KH2FM on critical mode for the first time, and wow. It was one of the best and most memorable gaming experiences I’ve ever had. Learning enemy and boss AI / moves, employing different strategies, utilizing my toolset to the fullest without it ruining the game or trivializing the difficulty. - It was just.. so refreshing. -not just for a KH game, but as a game in general as well. - And I think I should clarify to any naysayers that this isn’t coming from a place of biased nostalgia; I actually played the Osaka games way before I did KH2. Its only in retrospect that I’ve grown to vastly appreciate and enjoy KH2FM’s rich mechanical depth and competency. - That said, I encourage Osaka team to push themselves. Despite my many grievances with KH3, I believe they could very well deliver a product just as good as 2FM if they put their heads together and set out to understand why KH2FM is regarded so highly from an objective mechanical / design perspective.
I find the accusation “all KH2FM fans just want every KH to be a clone of 2FM” hilariously reminiscent of “All TTYD fans want every PM to be a clone of TYD.” - ..like, no. lol, that’s a very shallow accusation / mindset to have. Yes I’m sure those kind of fans do exist, but nah don’t put words in our mouth. We prefer KH2FM and TTYD over the subsequent games because despite how old they are (around 15 years) they manage to be more mechanically deep / competent in comparison to the products being made now. - Having a KH game where Sora’s block just doesn’t work sometimes is a problem. having a PM game where tens of thousands of coins are thrown at you, thus squandering your incentive to battle is a problem. Having a KH game where enemies just fall out of combos because they’re too floaty is a problem. Having a PM without all the things that gave the series its unique identity is a problem. - Nitpicking is one thing, but fairly criticizing a game’s objective design flaws is another. There are still elements to enjoy in any game sure, but if your response to the criticism is simply “get used to it / accept and enjoy it for what it is without criticizing it,” well.. that’s just complacency.
Lance Beryl I don’t mind the new paper Mario games I think the paper Mario fanbase only wants battles to have a meaning with lvls but they don’t necessarily want a clone of ttyd
Asian yeah. I still need to play origami king to make a fair assessment. - Obviously the ditching of more robust stories and mechanics, apparent balancing issues, and a lack of legitimately original races / characters also are some of the complaints I and many others have about the recent direction. - The new games may still be enjoyable in their own sort of way, but yeah.. it’s disappointing to know where the series could be, how much farther it could push beyond, yet it likely never will. - We have a slew of indies upcoming tho, so that original spirit may continue to live on somewhere I guess..
Lance Beryl yeah I heard there is a game called bug fables that resembles the good old paper Mario series back in its glory days haven’t played it yet though
I think both 2fm and 3rm are amazing games and my absolute favorites in the series. I can play them both many times over and not get bored. To me both have things the other does better.
Personally, KH3 actually did copy and/or build upon KH2FM in certain respects. They both have the same MP system. They both have combo modifiers, but KH3 moved them to circle, so you could dodge or block mid-combo. In fact, for all their flaws, free combo cancels is something that all of the Osaka Team games did better than KH2FM-KH3 was just the first one to have snappier attacks with proper hitstun as well. Aside from combo cancels, Revenge is one of the most improved aspects from KH2FM to KH3. Basically now, enemies give reactable tells on their Revenge Attacks, which keeps all of the beneficial properties of a Revenge System, but makes it more fair to the player. In fact, I was particularly unhappy about the old way, because DMC3 showed how to do it right with the Vergil boss fights. Another thing I want to address is Formchanges. You see, I liked them because none of them had the severe defensive shortcomings that some KH2FM’s Drive Forms had, and many of KH3’s Forms felt sufficiently unique. Shields were good for blocking & ultra powerful reprisals, Blitz Form was good for having dodge attacks, hammers were good for AOE & hitstun, Element Form was good for ranged magic attacks a la Wisdom Form, and Mirage Staff had that unique clone attack mechanic. Moreover, it’s often been erroneously claimed that KH3 Forms don’t have a cost, and this is largely untrue. Rather, risk IS the cost of being able to enter a Form, since in most scenarios, attacking enemies leaves Sora open to being attacked himself. Moreover, since the Situation meter drops if Sora remains passive, it encourages players to build momentum and not just try to run away from enemies.
Well said. The simple fact that KH3 has only been out for a single year (almost two) while 2 and 2FM have been out for 14 years respectively, shows that there is simply not enough time just yet to fully explore KH3's combat. Even 2FM didn't build up the reputation and recognition of its insanely intricate combat until 2013-2014 with 2.5 ReMIX on the PS3! I personally love KH3 especially with 1.09 which made it top KH2 for me instantly. Combo cancelling makes a lot of the unwanted risk go away with proper use, plus Double Form is basically every single KH3 drive in one, except Wrathful Flurry! (which I think is the shield's reprisal.) Fast, blitzy combos of the speed/blitz form, heavy hitting finishers of the power form, AMAZING range, plus 360 block, its own launcher and ground crusher, and some of the coolest combos in the entire series. Yeah KH3 doesn't have Explosion, Horizontal Slash or Dodge Slash, but it is honestly better than KH2 at this point in my opinion, Data Org is objectively better, and all in all I just feel like people are sometimes just looking for ways to keep 2FM on a pedestal. Maybe for some KH3RM doesn't evoke the same feel of 2FM. Thats fine. But its the fact that its successes are just not acknowledged that widely in contrast. Trueblade Seeker does some of the most insane shit with KH3's combat while still no damaging bosses, and thats just crazy to me. Not to mention on your point of forms, the fact that you can't block at all in a Drive in 2/2FM is just ridiculous lol.
@@zerosolis6664 The point about Drive Forms is especially important, because you have to pay a high fixed cost to enter a form, so you can’t just spend a little bit of meter and there’s no real parity between cost and benefit with respect to form time. On of KH2’s biggest flaws was the fact that its difficulty could mostly only seem to jump between extremes. And I think this issue with the forms is a leading contributor. If enemies aren’t powerful and relentless enough, then camping with Cure magic and/or spamming Magnet Burst & entering forms to heal trivialized any damage they dealt. On the other hand, if they were fast & powerful enough, then you’d be floundering around trying to deal with Sora’s subpar defensive options and high costs for entering forms. It would’ve been better if forms and summons alike just directly used Drive Gauges over time like a Devil Trigger. Additionally, a couple of the forms should’ve had better defensive prowess. Conversely, entering a form should not have healed Sora, and instead, a very slow HP regen over time would’ve been great, because it would’ve made an interesting trade off- that is, attack in a form but have less form time for HP regen or attack less for more HP restoration.
Oh shut up. Revenge on mobs is nuts. I'm comboing that larxene nobody and he just starts taking no damage and does the lightning attack messing me up. It makes you lose time.
3:40 I consider 2FM the best game ever made, and want to see it *exceeded.* Not repeated. So far I've been disappointed. :) I haven't found another game that offers a similar amount of useful variety. I haven't found another game that offers potential for total mastery through the existence of revenge value, which allows the player to manipulate boss behavior almost completely in many fights given sufficient knowledge and skill. I haven't found another game that feels that fast and snappy in its combat (though I will say that YS 8 feels pretty good).
13:00 I think maybe something that's missing here is that a lot of the wider KH fanbase aren't huge fans of action games like DMC or competitive games with complex inputs in general, and see the genre almost as incidental relative to the story or characters or plot that they play it for.
Well it's not even about complex inputs or difficulty in action games, it's literally just how satisfying it is to hit stuff in a game about hitting stuff.
Ah, if only kh3 had reliable defense magic, good guarding, combos that feel proper, better revenge value, more balanced summoning, smoother control of the character, limits that aren't random, damage scaling on crit lv 1, control over when I want a drive form.... So much more...
@@silentjoker45 it sucks so hard. Especially when I look at the vanitas mod or aqua mod. How can a small team of fans make a better kh game than what Osaka team could do with kh3?
Aside from the guarding very rarely(in my experience) failing, the guarding feels pretty damn good, it's still a mostly a pretty a mindless game where your hardest choice is to either do a big dick aoe attack at the expense of your mp or to do a shittier version of that same attack except you don't lose all your mp
I've played through KH2 quite a few times. I somewhat recently finished the main story and all non-2fm bosses on crit level 1. One of the things that I enjoyed the most about that particular playthrough was how every fight felt like a puzzle as well as a test of skill. The game gives you so many tools to work with that it makes it a lot of fun to try out different abilities, builds, summons, items, etc, to see just what works well against each encounter. Of course it wasn't all fun. The first part of the game is pretty brutal since you don't actually have any tools to work with, and there are a couple of other fights after that which are pretty terrible on crit level 1 (I'm looking at you Genie Jafar, The Experiment Groundshaker, and Final Xemnas, the last of whom still has broken reaction commands)
You'll notice that with exception for Final Xemnas, those all restrict your options in some way, Genie Jafar is Genie Jafar and The Jankass Carpet Combat, Groundshaker is Lion Sora... and then ignores all the cool stuff Lion Sora can do, unlike Scar, The Experiment is pretty much The Example of a boss thats horribly dependent on its RC to fight due to becoming invulnerable, I don't count the Beast's Castle bosses because those're just HP Gates on the "adds" phase rather then chasing down a angry laser head to make the boss vulnerable again
I actually like kh1 more sometimes, it was well balanced. If the game is not fun it's not that we love just one game. Re coded was awesome and it's similar to bbs, but has better combat and balance
There's a weird trend in games that's kind of boiling over now where as games have degraded over the course of its series, the people that liked the older games and want the new games to be more like them are now bashed as being elitists, see KH2FM, see Melee, see Paper Mario series. Zelda might go through this too if BOTW and BOTW2 are a turning point for 3d zelda games.
A lot of the KH2FM detractors really don't realize just how well made KH2FM is as an action game. It had great combat, a very large roster of enemies/bosses to fight that threw curveballs at you all the time, plenty of options you could use in a fight, great mobility options (which were somewhat wasted due to the lack of platforming outside of CoR imo), every weapon had genuine reason to be picked over others even in the late game for certain situations or playstyles, and it introduced two absolutely amazing design concepts in the form of both revenge value and the battle level system (the thing that makes level 1 runs even possible without sucking)
Usually as soon as you post a criticism, they'll go and say "Can you just let other people enjoy their game? stop spreading negative vibes" aaand we're done, you can't say anything, they just won.
Well I wouldn't say they've won. It's just we've hit an impasse/brick wall because the other side isn't willing to listen nor have their minds changed so at that point we're just wasting time.
@@Webshooters1 If someone is not seeking formal critiques ,and you put upon them formal critiques they have every right to say that. It's like some random stranger coming up to you, and telling you not to offer critiques on something when it wasn't requested. It makes you want to respond, and it makes you want to argue the point, and you will argue the point, and at that point all that has happened is an argument. An argument does indeed "spread negative vibes" when the person simply wants to enjoy a game they like without being inundated with negative vibes from people feeling compelled to tell them they shouldn't enjoy the game...which is, in fact, what you are saying in making such unrequested criticisms. Do away with this thought that "I'm just pointing out flaws to try to help a series I like" You aren't going to help the series by flaunting your dislike to random people who do like it. Doing so is only seeking backlash, and argument.
@@alexrivers8163 most of these conversations are reserved to public internet spaces. Everyone has the right to post whatever praises or criticisms they wish on public forums/videos/etc. If someone enjoys a game less because other people on the internet, thats just a sign that they are incredibly immature and insecure. If someone was truly secure with themselves, negative opinions on their personal taste would not effect their enjoyment whatsoever. If it really effects someone that much then they should evaluate their relationship with the internet.
I respect and appreciate your opinions. But I feel you missed the mark by not having a “what the KH3 fans means by saying this” like you did with KH2 fans. I love KH3 and I accept it has many (and I mean many) flaws. But this felt like just an exposè on defending 2fm while dumming down the defenses for later games. I 100% get that’s not the intent. But look at it this way. All your “what the 2fm fan says” comments are extremely well spoken and smart, while all the responding to 2fm ones are crude, rude, and stupidly undetailed to the point they all say the same thing. I just feel it’s not fair to those of us that are critical of 2fm to be placed in the same broad catergory as the trolls who just want to say 2fm sucks. I just feel if you’re gonna have a video like this, you should really be fair to both sides.
You're definitely right, I'll make it a point to have future videos with both viewpoints. What was hard is the "you just want 2fm" nonsense usually stems from that minority of other/kh3 fans that dismiss 2fm immediately. But the arguments I threw together genuinely were things I saw on Twitter being spoken at the time.
I think tying transformations to keyblades was probably a bad idea. It's a cool idea in concept that is meaningfully different than Drive forms since it's tied to your loadout and not the other way around, but it's difficult to provide meaningful distinctions between them. The game obviously has to give you more than 4-5 keyblades so you end up with certain ones just being redundant because it can be very difficult to find ways to shake-up gameplay. Working on my own games I sometimes find myself stretching my ideas thin by putting how cool a concept/feature would would be before the core of the gameplay and how feasibly I can actually change it up. KH3's transformations don't necessarily need to modify things the same as 2's do(even though they share a significant amount of systems like abilities), but there's only so many ways you can modify the base gameplay in a balanced way. I think 2(FM) was already starting to push it with Master and Final form but they're just meaningfully different enough to be okay. They also piled on attributes that make each form unique like their movement abilities, extra abilities in general, and unique properties like Limit's healing and magic replacement. Some of that is there in 3 but them being tied to Keyblades makes them replaceable. You're not really encouraged to learn what makes these forms unique and they're not distinct enough to force you to. And since they can be swapped you don't really strategize around them the way you do when you equip specific keyblades to drive forms in KH2 or spend enough time with them to think about a specific one as part of your arsenal. It leads to them feeling less like a loadout you have prepared for specific situations and more like super move you can do with one of your weapons. In which case you're just going to pick the coolest one or settle for the one on the best keyblade stat-wise you have. I'd also argue that there's enough keyblades to make it difficult to really keep track of the individual differences in your head unless you're committed to learning the game beyond what it really asks of you, except between the 5 or so broader categories of forms. I also don't feel like transformations and shotlocks really carry the same weight that abilities on keyblades did in 2. There was some trade-off to using the very best weapons (Zero EXP and Negative combo) that isn't really present in 3. The abilities also enhanced Sora's core gameplay in meaningful way by modifying what you were already doing in gameplay rather than feeling like something slapped on top of the core of the game. Shotlocks especially have that feeling of 'each keyblade has it's own minigame' that doesn't really compare to the strategy of having to pick between much quicker MP regen or better finisher damage. 2's keyblade abilities felt like an upgrade to 1, where each new keyblade tended to feel like the new best one for one of the stats. The abilities gave each one a real value, even (especially really for some of the Data fights) at the end of the game. 3's sadly feel like a half step down. There's definitely a strategic element that goes into which one you pick but it still kind of boiled down to which one had the higher numbers for me when I played through. Been a while since I've played 3 (and haven't played the DLC or Critical yet due to being busy with school and work) so I apologize if I've forgotten anything about this. Going mostly off my memory and some quick wiki checking. Thank you for reading my essay of a comment!
Dang, I really hope you do play the DLC/update 1.09 and Critical then! You may find yourself second guessing some of this or at least really enjoying it besides. Personally, I still enjoyed each Keyblade's abilities in KH3, especially since upgrading them gave you new ones. And I've always loved Shotlock from BBS so I was ecstatic to see it return, and have every Keyblade have their own base level shotlock, and max level shotlock. Hell, Starlight even has a completely different Ragnarok to the kingdom key. Using Fire Boost against Marluxia for example by using Dawn Till Dusk or Master Chef (just like using Bond of Flame in 2FM against Demyx, Vexen or Marluxia) especially when you're also using accessories or armor that give you those abilities, really does still make a difference. Yeah because you can upgrade them higher strength/magic IS important, but I always found myself switching it up. I don't want to talk too much about the updates/DLC/critical as you said you haven't played yet, but I really do think you'll enjoy it! Think about how many times you may have played 2FM, and how long the game has been out. There has not nearly been enough time for people to truly experiment with everything KH3/ReMind has to offer. Final Form Firaga strats are basically back too for speedruns lol.
@@zerosolis6664 Yo, I appreciate the reply! I picked up Remind recently when it was on sale and just got some time off from school/work. I plan on playing through it soon and doing a Crit playthrough before that. I still had a lot of fun with KH3 the first time through so I'm excited to play it with all of the changes and especially the new bosses. Really looking forward to it!
@@goblinpope No problem! Sick. I do believe that the new abilities are NG+, so if you have a Proud clear save, and you dont mind having all your Keyblades right away (including Ultima, they will all be base level again) you can start a Critical playthrough with all the new abilities I think! I actually played level 1 Proud right after I beat the game the first time and even though that was with the old combos and it was still a fun challenge, I actually started some crit level 1 data org today (I EZ code'd a lvl 1 crit run specifically to have one quickly for remind content xD but I do plan to do a real crit level 1 run soon) and level 1 is just so much better on crit. Scaling is actually pretty good in data org/secret boss, and I did some test fights with Battlegate 0, and San Fransokyo (latest-game content possible for best results I felt), and especially using Ultima Weapon/Kingdom Key/Oathkeeper and Oblivion, and with the new combos, formchanges, especially Second Form Keyblades and Light/Dark form, actually feel like extensions to Sora's combat instead of using transformations for combos other than speed slash or triple rush haha. And what's crazy is that those abilities are actually really good to use now because of combo cancelling! It might seem like placebo but Sora does do more damage now (especially if you use Ultima for combo boost/air combo boost) due to having a longer combo. Imagine kh2fm's level 1 damage without combo finishers like explosion or modifiers like flash step/snapshot. so level 1 is actually quite fun! Especially in battlegate 0 I felt like it didnt drag. blocking and countering/using magic and forms felt satisfying and pretty balanced imo. Links are still either really good or not that great I'd say at level 1, but they are definitely not strong enough anymore to even be considered to be used instead of Sora's base kit or transformations. Still think they're better than kh2 summons but they really needed variety and some more balance. Anyway sorry to have such a long reply again, I hope to hear some of your thoughts later if possible! KH3's base game still has some issues especially with enemies but overall the changes to the combat really make mob fights more enjoyable if you ask me. Especially combo cancelling by itself! Knowing you can guard and dodge out of anything (other than stuff like final finishers but it's still good timing if you're quick!), and I'm talking like even as fast as being able to guard after you trigger Dark Inferno's counter via RV, or as fast as the first swing of speed slash or first hit of triple rush, just makes high risk high reward a thing and makes you feel safer in mobs. Plus don't forget risk dodge! It's good lol. There are still things like enemies you cant see (I always felt like mobs sometimes had too many enemies haha but it's more manageable now imo), but stuff like off screen lock on actually helps with that now. Anyways like i said i dont want to talk too much about it but here I am going off haha. You should experience it yourself! Have fun dude and enjoy the data fights. It'll be worth the wait and replay to get to them on critical!
You missed one of my personal complaints, Any disney worlds with the exception of monster's inc, toy story and big hero 6 are literal garbage compared to kh2 or kh1. Except for the 3 I mentioned that had custom stories made for the game the rest all but completely remove sora from their movie's plot line, have no character progression and feign progress without explaining anything. Like in Frozen you meet elsa once and anna once and outside of that you are climbing up and down a mountain only to fight a random heartless that comes out of a guy they don't introduce in game. Hercules you meet herc like 3 times and they don't explain/show the plot of the movie at all really only for sora at the end to talk to herc as if sora even knew herc was dealing with where he belonged as far as mortal vs god realm. PotC you are only there for the start and end of the movie plot with random movie cutscenes thrown in there in between (that happen without sora even knowing). Tangled you see a few almost completely ripped from the movie cutscene with sora thrown in, have no visible character progression but now the 2 characters love each other and stuff happens, etc etc. And not to forget that nothing of real story importance happens in any of the worlds. Honestly between the random implementation of "attraction flows" that they never give an in game reason for, how bad the movie plots of disney worlds are and the removal of all final fantasy characters (outside of moogles and not counting anything from the dlc) from the game it all feels extremely sus that disney was pulling some shit and squenix can't say anything about it. Also why'd they have to go with the ending they did? Sora is finally away from donald and goofy and it was the perfect opportunity to let sora and kairi have a game together but nope can't let them ever spend more than a handful of cutscenes together.
In kingdom hearts 1 and (arguably) kingdom hearts 2, the Disney worlds complemented the central narrative. In kingdom hearts 3 the Disney worlds were a narrative hindrance so detached from the central story that even the main character wasn't sure why he was there. What's the point of even having a Disney world if you're not even going to confront any of the film's antagonists?
Nothing of real story importance happens in the worlds? Did you even pay attention? The black box was brought up in The Caribbean. Vanitas shows up in Monstroplis. The 7 princesses of heart were a MASSIVE plot point and were brought up in both Arendelle and Tangled. There were tons of important things. Also KH2 had the exact issue that you think KH3 had. Literally none of the worlds in KH2 had anything to do with the plot, and I’d argue Sora felt more disconnected in the plot of those worlds than KH3. & None of those worlds progress Sora as a character. I love KH2, don’t get me wrong. But it had a ton of issues with its Disney worlds. Issues that weren’t nearly as present in KH3.
@@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE Those are merely scrabbles. Just adding one or two little quips of plot does not over yet give much. There is more when it comes interesting story and execution. It is true those chars appear in those worlds but in the end it doesn't really affect to end results in very compelling way. But unlike in KH2 they at least had some funny moments which gave a vision that these Disney folks had their own local campaign against Darkness. I agree that KH2 is the lowest on the ranks when it comes down to Disney worlds, which overall weakens its plot. Damn... I kinda wish Roxas had been the main char in KH2. He likely as a Nobody doomed to fade would have had many kin moments with Auron and maybe forging his own friendships with locals while rebelling against his old crew had been big improvement.
it's funny how this is similar to Paper Mario TTYD fans, things becoming changed through time that doesn't reach the same progress as a game before that did battle systems to its peak. Then newer fans or just casual fans complain about the people who just want better gameplay saying how they're too stuck on the past. It's a cycle alright. Plus RNG invading on the newest game more and more meh.
Per my profile pic it's obvious I love 2FM and I've also done a few speedruns of varying sorts on it. I've played it many times and adore the game. That said, it disheartened me that you really work for the 2FM arguments and give none to the KH3 arguments. For example, I thought of plenty of much more reasonable counter arguments and to me that shows you're not showing the strongest arguments you've seen or can imagine (as shown in the 2nd slide) but just whatever makes KH3 fans look dismissive and that sucks.
There are more reasonable counterarguments, but the discussion isn't really a "who is right?" or "who has the better argument?", it's a discussion about how 2FM fans will bring up something they dislike about KH3, and the response by a large chunk of fans is "you just want 2FM" instead of providing an actual counterargument. Apologies in advance if it felt like I was generalizing all KH3 fans, cause that wasn't the intention.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz I get that to an extent, maybe I'd just like to see you gabbing with someone you respect who values KH3 more than you (not that you cant have your own opinion!). I think itd make an interesting dialogue as opposed to you pulling at the low hanging fruit. Cause yeah, to be totally clear I 100% agree with you that "we want another 2FM!" is not what 2FM fans are saying and I should know, I'm a huge fan myself!
Think my experience is different from interactions with the community. It's not the "this issue could be better with [2FM feature]" that bothers me, it's responses on the level of "this issue is not like [2FM feature] IDK how people like this". Which IMO seems like a very binary statement (caused again, by the 240 character sound bytes mentioned). And to that, ofc I'll "defend" a game because it's not that black and white. e.g. floaty combat: yes, I can see how this can bother people who want to play at a high level. No, I don't think it, by itself, ruins a game. Me playing through BBS's 3 campaigns twice and still having a good time clearly show there's something there that appeals to me and others out there. And TBH, it wouldn't be the very first thing I'd fix in BBS either (enemy hitstun would. floatiness is maybe top 5).
Yeah, the other half of the extreme exists as well and it's equally as annoying. Probably even more so for fans who publicly enjoy 2FM's game design because they get lumped into the whole dumb thing.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz yeah, that's definitely a big crux of it. Of course I love many features in KH2. But I'd rather not have every discussion on what are generally not gamebreaking issues I have in a game turn into a turf war. Think that's a big thing of it. Short of CoM's card battle system and 358's level design (IMO), there aren't that many game mechanics in KH that I feel "break" a game for me. But it seems any praise or criticism of a feature reflects on the entire game in the lens of some people. Which just isn't true, obviously. It's not like Anlantica's sheer existence means everything in KH 1/2 are on the same level as it.
I think the problem is that the fans got really defensive over the series bacause of all the sh*t it got before and after KH3's release and I can't really blame them for that. I remember that back then there were lots of critics being as basic as : "KH3 sucks, KH2 is way better." and other stuff like that (there were a few constructive criticism but those were swallowed by the endless sh*tstorm). Also, it's been labelled a bad game by multiple youtubers (despite not being as bad as they claimed it was). Because of that lots of fans don't make the difference between criticism and bashing. And since then, it's nearly impossible to have a constructive discussion about KH3 because there's always this "KH3 sucks vs KH3 is great" war. Also, there are quite a few KH2FM elitists. Once I saw a guy beeing like : "I'm a KH fan, KH2 rules the other games suck.". Like, how can you claim you're a fan of a series while you like 10% of it? XD
As someone who's platinumed KH1 and base KH3 and who's nearly platinumed KH2, I think all 3 are great. However, imo KH1 is actually my favourite out of all of them: 1) Combat. I appreciate KH2's and KH3's diverse arsenal of abilities, but for me KH1 has always been the most fun to play. In KH2, magic always felt underpowered up until I used Reflect to kill Roxas, and summons basically made you unstoppable. Drive forms were fun, but the fact that the movement abilities were locked behind 2 hours of grinding was frustrating for someone wondering why the hell they still hadn't gotten Dodge Roll by the time they entered World that never was. In KH3 every ability was just super powerful, I felt like I could 1v13 the entire organisation honestly. But this meant that at least I could use the abilities interchangeably and make the fights more personalized. What I really commend KH3 for doing is getting rid of the infinite healing loop that could be done in the past games with MP and Drive recovery abilities. With all of that said, in KH1 your arsenal was a lot smaller, however everything was always a viable way of dealing with stuff. To beat a boss, you didn't have to know what tool to use, you had to figure out how to best use the few tools you had. The internet guides could only get you so far. 2) Difficulty (I'm going off my Standard runs on each game since I haven't done my critical run of KH2 yet) KH3 was a walk in the park. KH2 was a walk in the park except for Roxas and Data Axel. KH1 was the hardest for me to beat when I first was going through it. Clayton is an evil boss who absolutely demolishes you if you're not careful. Captain Hook can blow your brains out if you don't react fast. Riku 2 I was stuck in for ages because it was so tough to spot the openings in his last phase, same for Ansem 2 but for the entire battle in general. Don't get me started on Phantom bs Sephiroth, those 2 killed me more than every KH2 superboss combined. 3) Music. A bit of a shorter section but an important one nonetheless. Don't Think Twice is for sure my favourite Utada song of the trilogy but Simple and Clean is is a classic. The OG Dearly Beloved is beautiful, but I appreciate how it's complexity has grown along with the complexity of the games. The Gummi Ship theme is iconic for me and hearing anything other than Blast Off in KH2 just felt wrong. I also really like Twilight Town's theme in future games but think Traverse Town's is more memorable. 4) World design. KH2 felt really bland world-wise. The entire game just felt like courtyards for cutscenes to take place and corridors to take you between those cutscenes. Of course there are some outliers like Twilight Town's tram common or the cavern of remembrance, but they're the exceptions. The collectibles don't take much effort to find, the only ones you'll miss are ones you don't have the growth abilities for (still an annoying thing for me) or that you couldn't access during the main story. In KH3, the worlds get big and with very well hidden treasures and lucky emblems to find, but to make the worlds so big a lot of it is made up of just empty space. The Caribbean imo encapsulates this perfectly, it's an amazing world full of secrets that you won't see on your first visit but it's all between a massive sea with basically nothing in it. In KH1, every world is full of things to explore, and there's little empty space between it all. I bet most of us wouldn't have gotten Curaga if we hadn't looked it up. 5) Story. I love the stories for each game but honestly KH1 had the best pacing. In KH3 you get pretty much 0 story between Olympus and San Fransokyo. In KH2 you get pretty much 0 story for all your Disney world first visits. In KH1 the story keeps up all the way through. Obviously it doesn't come up as often between Wonderland and Atlantica but still in most world's you get some sort of important story development that keeps you invested until you find Riku in Neverland and things start to get real. Ofc this is all just my opinion as a casual player, I am in no way as invested in detailed combat like most of everyone else here is. Still, I think it's a view that should be that unpopular. Yeah, it's a simpler game with simpler gameplay, story, graphics, etc., but at the same time it's imo the game with the most thought and care put into it, in a day and age before Disney executives thought of it as anything more than a spin-off videogame with no need for intervention. Plus, this might make some KH2&3 fanboys a bit miffed, so fun times for me :)
KH1 is probably my second favorite game in the series so no offense taken to me at least. I do want to offer my take on a couple of your points though. 1) I pretty much agree with this but I think it's worth mentioning that KH2's spells have really specific uses. Fire is a close range attack, while Blizzard is a projectile and Thunder is a large area of effect attack. Magnet and Reflect also have very obvious strategic benefits too. Fire/Blizzard in KH1 doesn't really seem to have found its niche to me. I never really have a reason to have both on my shortcuts. To lesser degree that's true for Stop/Gravity too. KH3 honestly feels like a step even further back than KH1. The difference between spells is fairly minimal in that game and they are all strong. 2) KH2 doesn't really shine difficulty-wise until critical mode. Final Mix additions like Roxas and Data-Axel only stand out because they were added in later. Critical in 2FM is such a revamp of the game that it completely changes the difficulty in a way that the modes in the other games don't. You level slower, deal more damage, have more abilities, have more AP (both starting and from levels) , and of course you have less health. It ends up feeling like a re-balance of the game into something that is legitimately challenging rather than just cranking up the frustration of the game. Leveling slower also helps you not get overleveled which can be a real problem in these games sometimes. Sora becomes a glass cannon since the game punishes failure much harder but rewards learning its fights with higher damage and gives you more tools to use against it. 3) Sanctuary still makes me want to cry like a baby 15 years later it's a crime that is used so little in the series comparatively. Agreed on just about everything else! KH1 has a lot to love especially in its overall vibe as full game. For me, KH2FM only beats it out for because I enjoy its gameplay so much in spite of its shortcomings.
Exactly there wasn't a lot of variety while Kh2 had many abilities that changed your combos and used many different buttons rather than just X to change how the combo works
@@_NeonFlame_ I mean, KH2 only had horizontal slash/upper slash and finishing leap that you just pressed square to use, KH3 still has rising spiral and groundbreaker that you use with circle, and personally I enjoy using them way more after the patch, especially in double form where it actually has its own launcher and ground crusher. I do agree though with OP, we didn't like get a new finisher just for the air. Last Charge could've been the new ground finisher (ala Explosion) and we could have gotten something like a mini Ars attack (similar to the stuff Terra uses for example in BBS and as Terra-Xehanort being a boss) for an air finisher.
To be fair, if every keyblade transformation was distinctly different then some keyblades would see virtually no use (as it stands you can use whatever keyblades you want with effectively similar results) take valor form for example, yeah, you’ll abuse it while you can but once you unlock master form or limit form there isn’t really a reason to ever use valor again, at that point you’d be deliberately limiting yourself. I agree that there is very little difference between the keyblade transformations from a functionality viewpoint but there is enough of a difference in how each ‘type’ of transformation ‘feels’ that everyone tends to have their own personal preference, some like the claw type transformations, others like hyper hammer, others like Highwind and stormflag or second form. It could certainly be better, but when the differences between the different transformations become to functionally different, some will naturally get the short end of the stick while others become ‘the best’ kind of like how no one uses hidden dragon. The spells however... those could have been better 😓
I swore off the KH subreddit forever because of this specific issue. At least when I was on it, it seemed like it was illegal to say that KH2FM was the best game.
I have to disagree with the Keyblade Transformation point- most transformations don't feel similar at all aside from the Formechos due to the weapon and magic changes (if there even is a magic change). To say most feel the same is to say that something like Hyper Hammer and Drill Punch feels the same as Agile Claws and Twin Yo-yos. Saying that "oh you press x and you hit stuff" is also how Drive Forms are as well- with the exception of Wisdom Form because those peashooter shots are only good for staggering bosses. Let's take a look at two Keyblade Transformations that feel vastly different from each other (that I mentioned above)- Hyper Hammer/Drill Punch and Agile Claws/Twin Yo-yos. Hyper Hammer is a moderately pased, hard hitting transformation with a lower DPS but a higher DPH (Damage per hit) and close-range AOE magic (similar to KH2 Fire), with Drill Punch being a mildly faster second stage transformation that shares the low DPS high DPH and close-range AOE magic of Hyper Hammer. Whereas Agile Claws, while sharing the same magic, is a high-speed, high DPS transformation with various multi-hitting attacks and Flowmotion attack changes, with Twin Yo-yos being a similarly fast-pased second stage transformation with even higher manuverability, multi-shot high range magic (in the same vain as Hunny Blasters/Double Arrowguns) and a couple grapple attacks. Alternatively, let's look at a transformation that is similar to all others, but also none of them at the same time- Nano Arms. Nano Arms utilizes attacks from each transformation type- a hammer slam from Hyper Hammer/Boom Hammer, a swinging flagpole from Stormflag, a Yo-yo twirl from Twin Yo-yos, a claw drill (which is the Flowmotion attack for Agile Claws/Blizzard Claws), and a few original attacks as well. TL;DR, the point "Most/All transformations feel the same" is a stupid point that makes almost no sense when not looking at Formechos due to each form having a specific purpose built around the weapon, magic style, and form style (form style being the types of Strike, Element, Blitz, Guardian, and Special (Special encompassing Second Form, Ultimate Form, Light/Dark Forms, and Double Form)).
Dude. The problem is, pretty much every KH game except for KH1 and 2 sucks really badly. Sorry KH2FM offers rewarding, fun, fast , balls-to-the-walls game-play that involves more than one button and doesn't have ridiculous mini-games to get basic abilities. Also, to quote Leffen, "Kingdom Hearts 3 is an actual 3/10 game..." The designers seem more interested in nonsensical situation commands and cringe-worthy attraction flows than actually making rewarding, fun, fast, balls-to-the-walls game-play. Damn right I want all KH games to be like KH2FM because EVERY other game in the series doesn't even come close to what it accomplished in its game-play.
Great analysis, that could be tied to similar discussions outside of the KH fandom. I want to add something to it: part of what made the discourse surrounding the gameplay of KH how it is also comes from how they released several "important" chapters on multiple consoles with at times completely different gameplay and combat system. Ultimately I think it was more to its detriment because it made some fans used to the concept of just scrapping most of the previous games' ideas in order to pursue a new system from scratch, understandably making a lot of mistakes or oversights along the way each time because, well, you're wrestling with a different beast every time. Truthfully, this "KH2FM debate" should end the moment we say "We just want the newer KH titles to take what KH2 FM did good and expand on that", because that's just a better way to ensure that every new KH title will be more polished and refined, but other fans are now so used to the idea of "Yeah no KH2 was good but that was it, it had some good concepts but they should stay there with it, every new KH needs to be completely different" that in their minds is even RIGHT that KH III Sora has bad combos or that some tools made specifically to reference the KH II ones are inferior. The concept that a 20 years old franchise starts anew every time has become so normalized some don't even see the deriving shortcomings anymore. One just needs to take a look around: Mario for instance is such a diverse franchise, but it makes it perfectly clear when something is a spin-off diversion and when something is the next big main installment that tries to improve upon the original games. So people will rarely respond to criticism towards a Super Mario Bros game by saying "No it's fine because when you look at Paper Mario, it also had a few problems". Instead we have KH III, then we have the main villain's past showcased in a mobile game wich is completely different, and whatever will happen to Kairi after Re:Mind will come in a rhythm one. Everything is so different yet so forcefully connected that making people understand that KH2 FM shouldn't just exist in the "KH2 FM dimension" but should be a stepping stone for the bigger picture becomes an at times impossible task.
EXACTLY!!! It's funny, really. When I finished the last Disney world on KHIII, I stopped playing altogether. It just didn't feel like the same franchise. For a while, I thought to myself, "Why do I feel so gross playing this game I waited for so long for?" I figured it out 3 months later: 1. The story was no longer personal 2. The gameplay was uncontrollable and weightless. Tbh I only cared about the sea-salt trio, Sora and Riku. There was too much plot points and people I didn't care about in the way. I didn't like where Nomura was heading with the story, so I left. I'm now watching the series from a distance, shaking my head as people still follow along with the bs.
For a long time, KH2 was my favourite game. Now, KH3 is. However, this is AFTER Remind came out with the new attacks, Oathkeeper and Oblivion, Photo Mode, Data fights, etc. I understand many of the points against KH3 and I even agree with some. Random limits is a bad idea, and pre Remind combos were awful, reaction commands shouldn't have dissapeared. I feel like giving criticism is kind of a taboo nowadays, as people feel "attacked" when criticism is just a way to try to find solutions to problems. In a way KH2 FM fans helped KH3, as the new combos, formchanges and Data battles are totally based on KH2 FM. That probably happened thanks to feedback. However some idealize KH2, which is a problem. I hate how most of KH2 are just hallways, leveling up forms to gain movement skills is absurd, limits may look cool but are just free damage, Stitch is OP, Sora feels very limited at early game, some bosses are more annoying than fun, gummi ship missions still suck, Atlantica, Mickey is a get out of jail free card and a long etcetera. And, when someone talks about KH2 they usually just talk about combat, when combat isn't everything in KH. KH3 did many things that a "KH2 FM Sequel" would never do, such as the team Keyblade Graveyard fights which, for me, are a dream come true, and I'm happy that KH3 wasn't just "KH2, but again" That being said, I haven't seen as many KH3 fanboys as KH2 fanboys but they can be... outrageous. Like BB put in the video "Base Sora combos have to be bad for the formchange combos", like, wow, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Your "kh3 did what a kh2 sequel wouldn't" point doesn't make any sense. Can you please explain? Because there's no evidence of what a kh2 successor would or wouldn't do
@@CloudXStrife136 Perhaps I didn't explain that point properly. What I mean by "a KH2 sequel" refers to the people that want "KH2 FM again", to want that is to refuse to grow and remain stuck, refuse to let Kingdom Hearts search for other ways to enjoy the series. If KH3 was KH2 FM but again, certainly the fights in Keyblade Graveyard against multiple bosses at once would've never happened, as KH2 got us used to fighting one at a time (the entire series has one v one fights, but KH2 is the biggest reason why people want one on one fights). A more minor thing, but a KH2 fanboy would leave the gummi ship as it was, perhaps even remove it, so they can focus more on the combat, but KH3 turned it around and made the gummi ships focus on open world exploration, turning it into the most (and only for me) fun gummi ship in the series. PS: I want to leave one thing clear doing something different doesn't make you better. BBS also did things different than KH2 but I don't like BBS because it sucks at doing those things while I enjoy most things KH3 does.
@@Watch-Yisus While i personally enjoy 1 on 1 fights because it has more focus on the enemy's personal patterns and such, i think multi bosses can be fun too. kh2 had boss fights in the collesium where you fight multiple at once. Maybe they arent story battles but theres nothing to prove that this wouldnt be used more in a sequel. Though, they usually are easier to mess up, since 2 enemies should usually have complementary attacks/styles imo. Having a fight where it feels like 2 but is actually 1 would be cool. Like they would look like theyre seperate, but coding wise are 2 halves of a whole. And theres lots of modded boss fight videos with combinations so its not something completly hated. As for gummi ships, i personally liked how 2 did it, better than 1 anyway. More engaging overall. 3 was alright, if i had choose one to be in a definitive sequel it'd probably be 3 since it has elements of 2, maybe just it a bit less static. Honestly at the end of the day, i think it comes down to some people maybe liking kh for the combat more nowadays, compared to the story/disney collab which drew them in when we were younger.
Even if I agree with every single thing you’re saying in this video, the way you represent each side of the Fanbase is so one-sided it makes it hard to watch
Is it just me or is this really dismissive of people who enjoy kh3? I'm a kh2 fan, and its my favorite of the series but man, can't the people who enjoy it at least get their actual opinions to matter at all? I could literally say the same thing and generalize the vocal minority who just hate on everything that isn't from kh2fm and shit on everyone who actually likes parts of kh3. You're rational, I get that, but people enjoyed things you didn't, just dismissing actual opinions or arguments about the game and generalizing them into one dumb argument is kinda stupid to me when I could do the same thing for the ultra kh2 defenders/haters of every other kh game
But how is he dissmisng opinions if he was generally showing two different points of views of fans who like aspects of KH3 more VS the KH2 fans who stick to that game because of their style of play and the reasons why? Like I get that there are KH2 fans who are pretty elitist but there are ones who really couldn't get their opinion out there because of the KH3 hype back then
@@TheAnimatedGamer And it seems like now, I can't have an good outlook on this game because well, it's not like 2fm, or because 2fm did it better this makes the game bad. That final argument goes both ways, especially now. I say he's dismissing opinions because well, instead of actually showing how rational people who like this game explain themselves as to how they liked it, or what not, he groups them up with the people who say you just want 2fm 2, and actually don't give an opinion. It's a very general way of looking at it when anyone could do the same thing on the other side of the argument and pair the 2fm elitists to the rational people who enjoy 2fm's mechanics and just not give them a good argument
@@anthonybello1447 well that's what he kinda did? Yeah the main title and start of the video was Was bringing up their defensive side but these are points that even the minority of KH3 fans talk about as well that are from a gameplay perspective and those reasons that he pointed out on why they enjoy the KH3 mechanics pretty much line up. he wasnt straight up saying you shouldn't play or have fun with the game that way but he was pointing out why KH2 fans do not like that playstyle. I think the last argument about the combos do come off as bias but for the most part he wasnt straight up stepping on people's toes or anything
@@TheAnimatedGamer It just seems like instead of giving both sides a good argument as to why you enjoy or not enjoy a mechanic of the game, he just gives kh2 fans actual context, and arguments while giving kh3 fans generalized arguments and making them look like brainless idiots who can't argue their point or make their own opinion. Even if that isn't his intention, that's what it looks like. All I'm saying is give the other side informed arguments for you to counter, or informed opinions for you to give your own opinion rather than just saying, "Kh3 fans say you just want Kh2fm", generalizing it and not giving the opposing side an actual argument of merit.
@@anthonybello1447 bit isnt that what he did? He talked about why KH3 fans like this X thing better and contextualized the reason for them liking it (preferring situation commands for example) then argued against that opinion on why KH2 fans do not like that mechanic and the reason for doing so
As someone who is not really a huge KH fan (and definitely wouldn’t say I’m part of any KH community) I like KH2FM the most. The largest reason for this is actually not about the combat. I think the way KH2 told the story is much better than KH1 and KH3. Also, KH2 has way more of the types of bosses that I think really shine, as all of the org fights are interesting and rewarding. KH3 doesn’t have a lot of those fights in it without the DLC (which I don’t own). Those are what I think are actually the short comings of KH3.
not sure if i agree on the story part, i like both KH1 and KH2's story for different reasons, both have their advantages but both also have their shortcomings, KH1 has more going on and more consistency where KH2 has more emotion and drama, sometimes very stupid drama, like when a rock falls on Goofy, where the events are really ridiculous but the scene is still treated deathly serious, i'm okay with that but someone else who prefers a more streamlined story like KH1 might see that, go "fuck that i'm out", here's the thing, neither is wrong i do think KH1 has KH2 beat by a mile in pacing tho, KH2 feels like it constantly has to balance itself tonally and forgets what its doing with the plot sometimes and veers off it, like the revisits to the disney worlds, whereas KH1 only forced you to do 3 revisits that were all short, and had a more natural cause for them
I don't agree on the story part. Most of the Organization members lacked a proper background. KH2's plot is basically "Kill every hooded guy you encounter for whatever reason while searching for Riku.".
@@livix3767: that's oversimplification, i will say i hate how fixated nomura became on org XIII and zeenort as the games go on -legit hoping the next KH whatever it is has zero ties to them- but i think they're one of the better elements of KH2's plot due to how they and Sora interact, it's not super deep but gives you a good reason for why you want to beat the bad guys while not being completely unrelatable that said i do think the execution could've been much better, outside of the twist after 1K heartless, beast's castle and at the end of the game you don't really experience the effects that this evil group have really had on the world
@@dmas7749 KH2's story is mostly missed potential and bad execution. I don't think missing playing CoM affects much since Namine has no presence in story that I cared to know more. Outside of Roxas' demise, and even that was kinda rushed, drama parts were merely drops in water and mostly shoehorned. I think the biggest mistake was to not make Roxas the main protag in KH2. Sora would've just been Han Soloed to organization tower and Roxas eventually agrees to go rescue him with his Riku and folks while facing his old camaderies. That would have been far more genuine drama.
@@Yurikon3 i won't argue with most of the first part, it's far from well crafted but kid me was fairly invested in the characters and how their story would unfold, much unlike now me and modern KH i very much disagree with the second paragraph tho, the game switching to Sora was not a mistake, the biggest mistake is pacing with the world revisits, which KH1 just did with traverse town and much better i don't dislike your ideas but roxas also merged after his final battle, "You make a good other" still makes me well up a little inside, since it has a lot of emotional build up and i'm biased towards that
As for Transformations, I think it would certainly help the diversity of each Transformation if they just scrapped the broader Forms/categories (Strike Form, Guardian Form, etc.) and just focused on making each Transformation its own separate class, truly distinct from the others. Forms like Counter Shield, Arrowguns and Mirage Staff already have that going, but the DPS forms (Hyper Hammer, Agile Claws, Highwind) are all too samey. Why don't we make the Hammer more of a tanker (with more i-frames in combos), the Agile Claws more of an Antiform-style combo, and the Highwind more Dragoon-themed evasion (such as a greater Quick Run, and manually-inputed jump attacks. I dunno, just something to make the mall stand out from one another.
You're absolutely right A gaurd that doesn't function 100% of the time is a problem But you see 2fm has the same problem but to a lesser extent In 2fm if you try gaurd an attack that's coming from directly above you the gaurd might actually fail But for some reason 2fm fans only criticize this in kh3
@@sdrucciolinofreebootino5248 and in kh3 some forms have barrier gaurd that can work around the problem You can work around the issue in kh2 and kh3 But that doesn't mean that the issue doesn't exist See that's what I mean Even though both kh2 and kh3 have the same problem You're still only defending kh2 and criticizing kh3 instead
Sluna They are very prevalent in everything after Re:Mind, which is all the combat focused part of the game. You can also do New Game plus and play the whole game with the abilities, it’s very fun.
"u just want a kh2fm sequep" yes i do, the point of a sequel is to improve on the last game, not to exactly copy it, so yes i indeed would like a kh2fm sequel no but foreal i like kh3 and kh2 and i think if they mix both ideas we could get something amazing and my hopes are up after remind the combos they added where 👌 spicy
Homestly, I think KH3's problem is enemy AI, unbalanced combat and unproper gravity. I don't really need it to be like KH2FM. But all those things I mentioned are properly programmed into KH2FM so don't be surprised when people prefer that other one. The problem is that KH3 feels like a very lame and fanlike 3D beat em' up. I say this because most combat options are just visual variety.
I want a kh game that has an interesting story that can be told hell even darker take on the series could be interesting. As for gameplay improve upon on what work in other games. Like kh2 combat that gives players agency, different character with their own style of combat with risk & awards when choosing one over sora. Etc
one of the fundamental issues is that kh has a very split audience that wants different things, which is directly caused by the franchise being split both genre-wise and in terms of the hardware it was available on. when dmc3 fans compare newer dmc games to 3, no one really gets mad cause it's established that dmc is a pure action franchise, and dmc3 is widely accepted to be the best at that. with kh, however, it's always been a hybrid action-rpg series, with tons of different styles of gameplay stretched across different systems, and thus different audiences. to us, kh2 is by far the best (and should be built upon by future games) because it has the best pure action gameplay and thats what we love about kh. but other people, who maybe grew up playing birth by sleep, want mechanically simple combat that rewards the time you spent leveling up your character rather than your intrinsic skill and reflexes, and thus is more "rpg" than "action". basically all "kh2 vs other" arguments boil down to this disagreement on what kh as a franchise should be
Personally, keyblade transformations as a concept is Squeenix's most effective compromise with balancing KH's increase in acrobatics with colorful disney aesthetic(with attraction flow obviously being the lease effective version). I'm not totally sold on it, but KH3 and the mobile games are clearly showing that they don't want to stick to just the base keyblade and need new physical objects to swing around. KH2FM had barely any of that, and was the closest to having Sora age into a breakdancer rather than an amusement park. We don't.....HAVE anyone like that in rpgs. Tidus was made in a time when the hardware just wasn't there, and Noctis lives in a setting too gritty and non-elemental for some of the wackier combos. To me, it represents a niche that nobody has really capitalized on, an identity that's not Disney nor FF, and we're trading it away for.....more disney. That's why I'm kinda hopeful when they say that the "Dark Seeker Saga" is over. We might be moving away from forcing in disney stuff over and over.
Well, for the Disney part, most of the Disney content is Nomura's choice, Disney/Pixar just oversee what Nomura has in mind and give him the thumbs-up.
I typed all this up assuming the Ornstein and Smough comment was left in the video but it wasn't and I'm going to post this wall anyway. The Ornstein and Smough comment is so fucked because while O+S is a great example of a multi-enemy fight that works, Dark Souls 1 has multi-enemy fights that fucking SUCK because they're not well designed. Being a multi-enemy fight isn't a free ticket to "it just works", if anything it's even harder to get working. O+S is not a clusterfuck. It's certainly frantic but the bulk of the difficulty comes from awareness, especially when you know the Achilles' Heel of the fight. Capra Demon, in the very same game, is probably the worst actual boss fight in the game because it IS a total clusterfuck. The fight is literally a coin toss on whether or not the dogs allow you to get to the stairs or not and instantly becomes the easiest boss if you make it. Iron Golem? Fucking horrible if you don't kill the bomb giant. Four Kings? Clusterfuck. Pinwheel? Would be a clusterfuck if he had an actual health bar. Saying that the Triple Nort fight is fine just because "other game does multi-enemy fights just get gud" is so unfathomably narrow-minded it's insulting and shows an unwillingness or inability to properly analyze the mechanics and design of a boss fight.
It's no different with paper mario honestly. You say you like the first two games and wished the future games would build off that but you typically get either "so you paper mario TTYD all over again huh?" or now (which has become way more popular for some reason) "Those games were never good to begin with" which just makes me drop the conversation altogether because I already know I won't make any head way in it.
The keyblade transformations are amazing since keyblades do different things once you transform, but I wish you could transform when you want to instead of having to unlock it through whacking things.
What I did when playing is transform a keyblade then switch to another. Going back to that one later, it will still be transformed. It was good to have one that way if a boss started doing something dangerous Sadly, the game was garbage and that was literally the only neat thing I personally experienced with the game
I've only played KH3 and not KH2FM. But after playing on critical mode I can agree with the sentiment that the melee-based transformations for the most part are the same. Aside from maybe Hero's Origin (the keyblade you get from beating Olympus) there isn't really a reason to use any other STR keyblade besides the one with the highest STR stat. Not to mention there's plenty of clones of the same form changes like Shooting Star/Honey Spout & Kingdom Key/Dawn Til Dusk/Midnight Blue/Starlight/Phantom Green (Jesus so many second form clones 😰)
6:28 "its not actually about whether a person likes or dislikes situation commands". Honestly sums up about every conversation about kh3. Any criticism of kh3 rarely gets met with a critically thought out point of view. Most often than not you'll get the same response of "i liked so and so". It just shows that a lot of people take criticism as personal attacks for some odd reason. I feel that 2FM fans usually can admit and respect the flaws that people point out in 2fm and still appreciate some of the things that kh3 brought to the table. I can not say the same for the other way around. Most criticisms of kh3 are responded to with personal feelings, getting called a "hater", or just out right fabricated criticisms of kh2 such as drive forms being broken because the drive gauge fills up too fast (like what?). Funny how only some fans have the maturity to admit both the positive and negatives of a game.
I think you have really good points, however I do want to point out from my perspective that movability and 3D fighting seems to be a major focus with KH3 focusing on the ability to have intense air movement as well as ground movement, combos and magic even reflects this as Sora is never truly 'grounded' like he was in KH2 which focused on heavy movement and deliberate attacking relying on stunlocking rather than fast but strong combos. You even yourself have relied on stun locking into combos to basically drain a enemy of health, the way I imagined it as that Master Form Drive reflects a lot of what Sora feels like in KH3 for me, crowd control, air movement and with it vulnerability since all of Master Form's combinations are air combos and if attacked could be interrupted. Keyblade transformations focus on speed and attacking as many enemies as possible, each form becoming faster and faster rather than heavier which I can see why this is a bit of a problem with players. Heavier means more committed and feels satisfying when you finish a large combo, while lighter floaty combat feels less so because there is no extreme finish to the combo no backpeddling from the enemy that is visible as enemies go flying back from the finish. For myself it makes combat feel extremely chaotic where KH2 felt very straight forward and creating reflexive strategies rewarded us because each enemy could be approached in a direct manner. Sora in KH3 feels especially in critical mode feels like a whirling glass cannon able to dish out tons of damage but can be smacked back easily. but I dont know, I enjoy it and do have many things I agree with when it came to what you had said which would only improve the game.
I remember when Remind came out, people were making fun of how it costed 30€ on launch. Dude, I wish I had paid 60€ for Remind and 30€ for base KH3. Just Kairi at the end of Remind controls better than Sora in the whole of vanilla KH3
to make things even funnier people who usually complain about price didnt get past half of the limit cut. i was like "ofc it will look expensive as hell if u only played like 1/3 of what u bought"
@@anxjos Not only that, but complaining about paying $30 for a DLC that offers more content (I don't consider 2FM's data org really that good especially now that 3's is out, for reasons I'll elaborate on if you want/reply to this, nor do I consider Absent Silhouettes their own bosses tbh), instead of having to wait several years for a brand new re-release in your country (PS2 was not region-free if I recall, so not just anyone could just play original KH2 final mix), as part of a remastered bundle for $50 or $60 where you have to replay the whole game just to experience everything new is just stupid. ReMind is a steal for being $30, regardless if someone wants to use the "should've been in the game at launch" argument, or the "recycled content" argument.
So you’re thinking that KH2 fans are super eloquent and present only well-thought arguments, while KH3 fans can only respond with name calling and shitty grammar? Yeah, tough to see how people might find that perception a little bit elitist.
One thing I really think would have genuinely helped would have been more variation in Magic when transformations happen. Yes there is SOME, like the claws giving you an AoE burst and the blasters/magic launcher changing the shots, but they all more or less do the same thing as each other spell (I.E. fire is going to do the same thing thunder would do and such) I think that, especially with spells like Aero, there was so much missed opportunity. Imagine a more melee focused transformation that made it so that, say, when you case Aero, it does a burst around you, but that burst launches them straight into the air, and it "cancels" the combo to immediately put you into a flow motion jump, as Aero does, for you to follow up, or maybe you could air step to follow up without flow motion or roll cancel it to not get launched upwards with them and follow up with something else from the ground. KH3 is so sad to be because it TRIES to have the fundementals KH2 does but just bogs them all down to their simplest possible form.
At 13:20, did the patch that he mentioned come out before or after the Xbox version? I played the Xbox version at launch and didn't notice anything weird about the combos, but I am not generally an action game guy so I probably wouldn't notice either way.
OK look. I'm perfectly cool with KH2 fans raising higher standards for the quality of KH games. There's nothing wrong in asking for polished products when it was proved possible by previous installments. What I do have a problem with is the lack of experimentation with new concepts and judging them on surface level, resulting the possible ignorance of really great game mechanics that the average player wouldn't notice immidiately. At launch, people saw KH2 as a brainless button mashy game with useless summons, limits that are just nukes, wierd spells variations and drive forms that just make the game even more button-mashy. It took years for the community to realize that KH2 is not straight button-mashing. The point I'm raising here is that KH3's mechanics were not tested and experimented enough by players to see how interesting they can be when using them correctly. 1. While some formchanges act the same in how they play, when you consider the formchanges that act differently you'll find a lot of variety rather than just saying "they all do the same except the shield". On top of that, having 3 keyblade slots means that there's more to formchanges than just damage dealers, as you can make 1 formchanges that creates SC arrows very quickly to help build another 2 quicker and set-up strategies (Magical staff clones/shield->wrath flurry). Formchanges are a lot more creative and have more to them strategy-wise than the praise they are given by players. 2. It's true that grand magic is randomal based on how much you used them to build SC arrows. But, like, WHO CARES? Considering that they are just stronger versions of spells, they are nothing more than extra damage dealers so I plan strategies with the aknowledgement that I MIGHT get extra stuff, but can handle just as good without it. Think of grand magic as a critical hit in Pokémon games, where you might deal extra damage based on the speed stat and the attack's property, but it's also based on luck (you have ways to raise your chances to get it, but most of the time it involves luck). The only time where grand magic is involved strategy-wise is in the ORG13 speedrun with AoE Firaga spam, where you are guranteed for a Firaza after few Firagas. Blocking formchanges behind RNG IS a problem on beginner to proud since they are actual combat modifiers (not passive extra damage dealers like grand magic), but it doesn't matter on critical mode when Critical Converter is activated, since than you guranteed a formchange. I'll agree that the timer to use SCs before they disappear is kinda dumb, but as for the RNG being a terrible design choice for grand magic... I just disagree with that. I'm sure that in time people will see the greatness of KH3's combat more to the point when KH4 will try new things it will be called bad and fans will praise KH3 to no end about what it did right and KH4 didn't, only to later realize KH4 did his new stuff really well too. Than KH5 will come out and stuff will happen the same in a continueous cycle.
The problem with Formchanges is that there fundamentally similar. The main purpose of formchanges are that they change your default combos. Which doesn't really add variety other than switching to another keyblade for an attack. Which is a very surface level interpretation of combo's. Combos at their greatest are when you combine a series of different attacks together back to back. In fighting games You can see 6+ different inputs to make a combo. Keyword being inputs. In KH3 all your doing is pressing the dpad for maybe 1-2 attacks and that's kind it. And it doesnt even give you a real advantage or reward other than looking cool. KH2 had a similar issue but it At least gave the player more control over drive forms and limits. But the game that gave the best combo potential was BBS since every command that doesn't follow up with a "Rave attack" (Like sonic blade) effectively allowed you to continue with another attack or command. And BBS had a much more reliable way to dictate which styles you went into without making you ignore aspects of the game. So if you want fire you fill your command deck with mostly fire attacks. Want dark impulse? use a magnet or Gravity spell. Want Cyclone? Use Aeroga or windstrike. Want rythem mixer? Use mine attacks. Want rockbreaker? Use rock attacks like Meteor or Geo Impact. All of this makes KH3 combos look disappointing compared to what we got previously.
@@trisryan4161 If you think so than you clearly haven't experimented enough with the game's mechanics. KH3 gives you a lot of control over which formchange you want. You equip 3 keyblades and cycle between tgem with the D-pad. Whichever keyblade you used at the moment the situation command (SC) guage was filled is the one who gets the formchange. There are cool ways to get the formchanges faster like using Wrath Flurry to build 3 arrows and finishing the job with another keyblade to get it's formchange quickly. Aero->Buzzsaw to a great SC builder as well. There are plenty of cool combinations so don't say you lack control over formchanges. Formchanges are more than just "mash X to win". They all have a small perk to make them more complex than that. Strength forms can reach their finishers quickly, similar to Valor form. The arrowguns have split spells and the FPS mode with free aiming. The Magic Launcher have bazooka projectiles and bazooka spells. Magical Staff can create the clones and shoot the enemy from up to 5 directions at once (super useful against Lump of Horror). The claws have the AoE spells, making them useful for data ORG fights. Sure, Second Form, Light+Dark+Double Form and Ultimate Form are just damage dealers, but the others still have their uses beyond mashing X. And besides, most players don't go super in-depth with drive forms and mash X anyway so mashing X with formchanges isn't a big downfall for most players (casuals, I know, but still).
@@roiitzkovich4545 It's all style but no substance. This can be said for just about every formchange in KH3. The biggest difference between the regular keyblade and with transformations like the Lance or Hammer are a bit more damage with the latter and cooler attacks. It looks like I'm doing a lot, but it's just X. And why bother witth magic if the transformations already deal a lot of damage? Why set up Mirages or Aim with the Arrowguns when I could just press X. Combos and attacks mean nothing without purpose. And the differences on appearance and effects between transformations mean nothing when I'm still just pressing X just as I'd normally do. Which is exactly what they are. There just commandstyles smashed together with drive forms. But it's mostly just command styles essentially. All command styles are supposed to be is a modification to your basic attacks. And it's not that different from how formchanges are in KH3
@@trisryan4161 thats on the casual side of the argument, as most only look at the surface or for broken features to abuse. such as how certain formechanges can do the final form firaga trick from kh2fm. with endless magic and mp thrift, makes it more abusable. others experiment on more extreme levels. such as trueblade style showed, not only formchanges potential but other usages. like air step, a combo reset trick, etc. others made stylish combos that even involves shotlock. the point is kh2fm and kh3 reminds have their flaws. many shouldn't overlook them when a game doesn't have/or the same said feature in the sequel. I still see ppl want reflect from kh2fm back to kh3, overlooking the very ease to use, 360 coverage, and massive damage reflect gives. which was nerfed to being a guard feature in later releases in the series. another point is that it took time for kh2fm combat to be exploited, as when it was first released. the base counterattack (not reflect) was somehow treated as the main damage dealer for sora. with drive forms acting as emergency cures.
its funny how since launch ive been told that KH2FM and 3 just cannot be compared because theyre not similiar in the slightest, yet its very obvious that KH3 is built (albeit poorly) upon the foundations of KH2FM, KH2FM isnt a perfect game, it has its flaws, it just so happens that KH2FM is a fun game with a very strong base/foundation, but at times it just felt like they took these super strong foundations, and instead of building a beautiful mansion on top of them, they built a mud hut instead, then with remind DLC they gave the mud hut a beautiful oak door.
Tbh I was hoping for kh3 to just be basically 2fm but better. After the free patches/dlc I think it has raised the game up from what it was at base release but it's still a bit below 2fm imho. (I do not yet have the Re:Mind dlc so I can't speak on that part yet) Edit: When I mean "2fm but better" I don't mean it has to be 1 for 1 2fm. Just like some or most of the fundamentals but improved upon and new things added.
Most KH fans are casual fanboys and will see nothing wrong with the game; the same fans that will see sora fart and think nomura had some deep intricate reasoning behind all of it. and don't get me wrong, I love Kingdom Hearts, it was one of my favorite games. But the combat post 2FM has all been experimental, which is fine, but there's no reason they shouldn't take risks and try new things out, but the way they went about it was stupid, they gutted base combat in favor of command decks. There's no reason you can't do both. 2FM and BBS are on the same engine, the team at the time didn't even take the time to learn what proper balancing is; not even talking about like staggering and RV, but the fact that you can get once more and second chance literally in the beginning of the game which undermines all difficultly, even in a critical mode play through. 3D didn't even remedy this, it was better than BBS in some ways, but still had bad balancing issues and imo, the solution to abilities was worse, since you had to have the same pet to keep your abilities. They could have just thought of a way better solution to all this instead of designing pokemon, which aren't even used anymore besides one summon in 3. At least in Re:mind they really listened and I'm happy and they keep that quality up, but base 3 combat was still really bad, especially with random powerups like attraction flow, also I think drive forms still function better than situation command forms. also bring back RCs!! oh also, shotlocks either need to removed or reworked. there's no point to them except free damage. Either make it so that as you damage, it builds up the gauge and it rewards you for keeping up hits, maybe have it go down if you're not aggresive or maybe even go down if you get hit (although might be a bit hardcore for KH), but make it interactive, the fact you can just stock refocusers and just spam shotlocks is fucking dumb. it's just there, 0 interaction with the kit at all.
![Intro to Tool Dev in Unity - An Improvised Live Course [part 1/4]](/img/n.gif)
If you guys liked this video and want to see more like it, let me know what topics you'd be interested in. What I'd like to cover are KH topics that not many people bring up or topics that usually aren't expanded upon or talked about in detail. It doesn't have to necessarily be gameplay related, either.
What mechanics or design choices would you tweak/remove/add if there was a gameplay sequel to KH2FM?
I've yet to see many, if any, people ask this question, and it's one I'm supremely curious about. Could Master Ava be sleeping inside Kairi's heart? I'm hoping KHMoM has an answer for this, but it'd be the easiest way to explain Naminé looking different from Kairi (ex Roxas and Ven in Sora's heart) and could explain some cryptic stuff from secret reports across the games.
@@TenshizakiN008 Namine looks so different because of Ventus, blame Nomura
I liked this video but I don't know what to recommend as I'm not a part of this community in a meaningful way.
I didn't watch the whole thing yet, so forgive me if you touched on this later in the video. I never saw a lot of people complain about the lack of uniqueness among transformations, I more saw people complain about the lack of resource management, in KH2 drive forms were something you felt like you needed to hold onto till the right moment, FM kinda took that away with how abundant drive recoveries were once you could start doing M13 challenges. Still, you felt the need to save it for when your health was low, or needed your MP restored, or wanted an extra boost of strength for a fight you were having trouble with(looking at you first dancer encounter), in KH3, transformations are just thrown at you for free, along with very powerful magic, and ethers are abundant as hell, every single one of those commands is a "why not" rather than an actual decision.
I mean, 2FM had
*Weighty combat with snappy movement
*An ability system that expanded player choice and gives immense depth
*Drive forms were universal and expanded the importance of smart keyblade decisions for forms.
* An actual balance of Final Fantasy and Disney
it also had
*no level design to speak of at all
*massive chunks of filler in the story between the opening, the battle of 1000 heartless, and the end
*a massive grind to get movement abilities which are mostly useless unless you want to collect puzzle pieces (has anyone ever?) or complete the optional dungeon (this is actually worth it)
*incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky
*unbalanced spells like magnet and reflect
I love KH2FM, but I'm tired of people saying it's the perfect sequel when in pretty much every way other then the combat it's a step back from KH1
@@VivBrodock Oh yeah, the level design is on par with walking through Elementary school hallways with little or nothing to do... But I wouldn't say that everything between the opening and the 1K heartless battle is exactly filler. I mean, you've got Roxas's story, getting your new clothes, going to hallow bastion for the first time, being drip fed small things about the Organization, and occasional Twilight town visits.
Also, I might've been that person that got all the puzzle pieces. I wouldn't say any of the bosses are really bullshit either since it is very much possible to go through the entire game without dying once if you're super informed... But yes, I do wish more areas were designed like the Optional Caverns.
@@VivBrodock no one said it's perfect. but why scrap the things that worked about the game, just because other aspects were less than stellar? at no point did this person say it was perfect, he just listed aspects of the game that were really good. why would that get you into a tiff? such an odd response. also, i'm sure quite a few people have collected puzzle pieces to acquire the incredibly useful executive ring and grand ribbon. but seeing you say that 2fm had "incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky", i can only assume that you prefer games where you just get to mash x and then sit back and watch a cutscene.
"you just want games to be sequels to 2FM"
yeah i actually would want sequals to games to reiterate and actually build on what made the previous games great
It's sad, really. KH2 was a tremendous leap in quality from KH1, improving in every aspect I'd say, easy, and... for as big a leap as it was, it's like the games after attempted to plunge lower and lower.
@@Peasham The only major downgrade to me was puzzles in the environment and exploration. Combat is snappy and fluid and you have all of your choices in front of you instead of like 33% chance for certain finishers
@@Peasham really? I thought 3 was as good as 2, I prefer 2, but not by much
@@kayaplaaya9875 I initially didn't like 3 but with the all the free patches/dlc, I still haven't gotten Re:Mind, it made the combat a lot more fun for me. It's close to 2fm levels but not entirely there yet imo.
@@kevin13cabello yeah, overall 2fm has funner combat, but I love the options kh3 gives you
One of the reasons why I really like reactions commands is because it gives the player a relationship with the enemy in a sense. Being able to dynamically use the enemy’s attacks against itself was really cool. Each enemy had their own animation and way Sora interacted with them.
Honestly without RC commands the enemies in KH3 felt kind of Hollow
Can't say I agree, personally. Then again, I don't like contextual attacks in any action game.
The reason why I don't like them is that they're options you can only use on certain enemies, and when the enemies feel like letting you use them. This means that there's a lot of tools with their own unique utility that you're artificially limited on accessing based on the context of the specific enemies being fought. I much prefer a set of universal tools a player always has access to, so that they could use those tools anytime, more strategically. It's an issue of player agency.
It also doesn't help that certain RC sequences play out longer than others, and thus killing the pace of the fight more or less depending on the RC. Not to mention the parts of the game that forces you to use them either out of efficiency or outright necessity.
I can appreciate your point on how they create a more unique relationship with the player on a per enemy basis, but I'd say that giving each enemy its own unique move set, health pools, and resistances surface in that regard. Having that extra element to the player and enemy relationship isn't worth the trade-off IMO.
To each his own though.
TL;DR: Contextual commands limit player agency compared to universal tools.
@@platinumconquest2365 Hmm you make very good points. Maybe Reaction commands would be better if they were activation by performing a perfect guard(like critical counter in KH3). After performing a perfect guard you'd be able to retaliate with a unique counter like risk dodge but instead it'd be unique to the enemy that you got the perfect guard on like a reaction command. Still unique retaliation attacks but given through timing and player skill.
@@platinumconquest2365 I'm going to give you the layman's reason to liking RCs: Bruv I'm just tryna smack shit with a giant key and look cool doing it and Reaction Commands are the coolest things in the game.
@@sonymicronin Even that solution wouldn't solve my issue with RC's. It arguably gives the player a bit more agency, but the issue of locking away tools behind specific enemies remain.
I'd like to replace them entirely with a dedicated launch/descend function not bound to the same buttons as other important functions (seriously, how does KH still not a Helm Beaker equivalent at this point?).
But if we absolutely had to keep Reaction Commands, I'd rework them to be kind of like enemy souls in Castlevania: AOS. The idea is that enemies have a chance to drop their essence, and Sora can equip those essences to gain an enemy specific reaction command. You could even equip multiple essences to use depending on Sora's state. A land command and an air command for example, maybe more.
TL;DR: Either give me a High Time/Helm Breaker button or make reaction commands equipable.
I mean KH2 is the only game i constantly go back to because of how good it is. You don't need to make it exactly the same but you know , don't fix what's not broken ? It's not surprise KH3 became much better to play after some simple abilities were added that made Sora actually fast and satisfying to use. So you don't need to make a 100% copy of KH 2 but i think everyone can like certain mechanics that made such game so good in the first place
It's not even just that there making it different from KH2, there either removing mechanics entirely, not replacing them with anything or with something significantly worse and undercooked
I definitely agree with what you're saying. Honestly there was some stuff in 2fm that I didn't like, like how base Sora's magic felt really slow and and laggy when I'm in a fast paced boss fight that requires good reactions and using magic at the right moment. I really like how KH3 gave Base Sora the abilities to float a little above the ground when casting spells because the magic felt way more mobile and there wasn't so much risk with whipping out a spell or two.
Those new abilities were a godsend. It definitely made my replay of kh3 even better. I can never go back to the old ones.
I have gotten platinum trophy on kh2 twice and I'm still not bored with it. It's so fast paced and amazing.
While I do agree that KH2FM's combat is far Superior, I disagree with "if it's not broke don't fix it" because it completely disregards the fact that you can improve something. Oh the first car was made? Well don't improve it. I mean it runs fine right?
Improvements are also the reason why things don't get stale. Constantly getting the same thing would get pretty boring. If only we had an improvement of KH2FM. I feel like we don't need an exact replica but just something that feels better. Definitely less floaty imo
Kh game with 2FM combat and 1FM level design would be amazing
definitely this. i appreciate the fixes made to 3s combat with remind but every kh game after 1 has not even compared in terms of platforming and level design to the original game.
Man, even though I appreciate the spirit behind 1FM level design, I find that navigating those worlds are not all that enjoyable. It's difficult to tell where each door or passage way is going to lead you to. Like the Ship in Neverland, or the Caves in Atlantica. The constant back and forth of Deep Jungle. In 2FM is very easy to tell what is going to lead you where, because often times, you actually get to see it beforehand. I think that Cavern of Remembrance brought some of that spirit back and it would've been nice to see more of that. As for KH3, I think that they wanted each world to feel more like a playground, just simple fun.
@@someguy5319 Agreed and it’s a real shame
not the hollow bastion stress again :(...
@@GuilhermeTB1 Well, luckily KH2 onwards had a map as well as the Information bar to tell you where to go next, so a game with KH1's level design like KH3 shouldn't have that problem. Also more movement options even though I personally don't have a problem with the movement in KH1 myself.
Every copy of KH2FM is personalized
I don't understand this joke can someone help me please.
@@boxcar9407 I'm guessing creepypasta related so I wouldn't go down that hill.
Kh2 1995 demo
@@boxcar9407 it's a mario 64 alternate reality game/creepypasta mix that's where it's from and search up mario 64 iceberg to learn more about this basically tldr is that this is a creepy meme about mario 64 having subtle differences from ai and etc
The xion apparition
This goes back to the entire "dont criticize product, just be excited and consume next product" shit that ABSOLUTELY plagued stuff like Pokémon Sword/Shield & TLOU2 defenders. As videogames become more casual and their productions more and more costly due to ever increasing graphical demands by said casual audience, less and less time is soent in development to refine, update and satisfy mechanical and design needs of the game. Twitter is only able to geberalize subjects due to the 280character limitation, therefore you can't broach a subject like you would in a forum or imageboard. Communities turn these cases of extremes where the majority don't want to see complaints, want to attach thwir personalities to a project or company and any one that points flaws is whatever buzzword van be thrown at them, the impact is never made and more and more games are developed as a product over being a videogame. Everything is designed to be safe, unoriginal and basic, nothing more.
I've seen way more people get triggered by people defending TLOU2 as opposed to getting triggered for people complaining about it.
Then again, most of the complaints I've seen are, like, lies, so I guess that's not too surprising.
I'm actually done with the Pokemon series and community after the fiasco that was Sword and Shield and the ravenous fans.
@@sonymicronin I may be a minority but people do exist that enjoy swsh and still admit it was a shit show.
Peasham yea it's mainly the people who really don't want others to like the game, like I've seen some people unironically act like it's one of the worst games ever made and enjoying it makes you a bad person, all the discussion around that game is some of the most vitriolic shit I've seen in gaming, comparing it to the way people criticize KH3 seems more like an insult than anything else
I've seen way more haters complaining about tlou/pokemon fans, than fans complaining about the extremely toxic dickheads
Meanwhile, people like me, who prefer the KH1 style, are suffering
*Cries*
Me too, one of the problems in newest kh changes actions for cinematics that make you feel youre doing something
KH1 is the only action rpg in this series and that's sad tbh
@@donaldtrump2728 KH1 is an rpg with action elements, and 2 and 3, action games with rpg elements. At least, that's the way I see it
It kinda sucks that there'll probably never be another game like it. Parrying attacks with well timed strikes felt great.
@@elivcdxv1852 The parry thing "kinda" came back with the perfect guard ability included in Critical Mode for KH3... Not even close on satisfaction levels tho lol. Especially parrying Riku-Ansem felt amazing when you figured out his patterns
What the 2FM fan is REALLY trying to say:
"God I just want to make Larxene the mother of my children."
Nah.
Marluxia.
Nah sephiroth (jk no homo)
She is the only non jailbait option before aqua existed
I feel attacked, I want her to sit on my face
i want her to punt me across the room
As a fan of the series since the first game in the series. Its not even about wanting every game to play like KH2. Its the simple fact that KH2 is most balanced game in series. Also the fact that KH2 gave us a game, that casual & hardcore players both enjoyed. And now it's gotten to point that whenever you have an issue with the gameplay in the
series it automatically goes to "YOU JUST WANT IT TO PLAY LIKE KH2" even when explaining things like floatyness and hit stun issues in most games post KH2 honestly it's just tiering afterwhile.
Just hope that one day people can understand that what KH2 did so well is allow people both ends of the spectrum to enjoy the game.
KH2FM yeah, KH2 Vanilla, fuck no.
Agreed man, I love all kh games . It just happens to be kh2 is pretty balanced in every aspect but it is not the only fun to the whole series
It's more than just balancing, but yeah. Everyone ik of that dislikes kh3 has legitimate reasons for it and i'm always seeing new ones that make sense, despite not having that problem myself.
The people not even trying to have a conversation about it and just poking fun are the stereotypical consumerist drones. They're just very vocal in this community. If it relates to their beloved, likely nostalgia-love tied company, the company and it's product/service can do no wrong and therefore you are wrong. It's tribal in nature, as many other things going on in the world are right now
KH2 isn't the most balanced game in the series, that spot is for KH1.
I'm not even talking about cheesing. Like, you receive Trinity limit so early in the game that mob fights turn into a joke (even against large enemies, not counting bosses) and Sora receive so many combo modifiers that your reach a point where you don't even need to use most of your weapons, because base Sora is more than enough to handle everything.
On Situation Commands specifically, I feel like they’d be fine if they just got rid of RNG entirely. Like, yeah I did this cool Fire centric combo, give me my Fire Grand Magic as a reward. I don’t mind building a meter instead of choosing a menu option.
I used to think like this too.
“KH3 is perfect you just hate it cause it’s not 2fm”
But having played KH3 more, especially on critical. It has genuine problems that Need to be addressed in the future. Is it still fun? Yes. But is it as refined as 2fm? No.
Though the Re:Mind superbosses give me hope that Osaka has learned.
I hope that kh4 will have everything we liked with kh2 and 3. I want the combat to be fast and weighty at least.
As a 2FM fan who has not seen this video yet, I can only say one thing. "Yeah, that's fair."
im not gonna apologize for wanting a sequel in the footsteps of the best action game made
my general comment on folks who like kh3 over kh2, who like style and WOW factor over substance, is: I'm glad you're having fun. perhaps you would also enjoy this nice Kaleidoscope
KH2FM is so good, the amount of times I've seen people get angry over it is astounding 😂
Havent watched the vid yet, but as a kh2fm fan, I wouldn't mind different gameplay changes as long as the mechanics are balanced and the story was at least better.
I wish the story existed.
I honestly feel bad for everybody that paid money for KH3. That story was so God awful I couldn't even believe it when I finished the game.
Bevvvy I loved it. And I felt I had my money’s worth. 🤷♂️
@@bevvvy1374 I actually liked it. It just felt odd sometimes but it tried to fix the mess DDD created.
I actually liked re:chain, tbh.
The issue about the topic of "wanting every game to be like kh2" is that it's not correct. That's not what people are saying, people are saying that some games aren't as balanced as KH2, and that's the issue. I'm not gonna write a whole ESSAY on why I don't like Birth by Sleep and KH3 in this comment section, but I ABSOLUTELY could. It's simply comes down to crucial gameplay mechanics not being as refined as the other titles in the series.
EDIT:
wanted to edit my comment to say that, I've played KH3 and KH2fm back to back lately, and I can definitely see the appeal of people who might like KH3 much more, I believe I had some heavy tunnel vision, KH3 isn't some like, horribly flawed game, and I've had issues in KH2fm that persist in KH3 or, issues only in KH2fm that aren't in 3 that were improved upon. I felt as though I came off pretty poorly.
For those who might really just, hate KH3 try and clear your mind before goin' into it, cuz I def had some bias I didn't address.
That said, I still think I like KH2FM more for combat.
Well balance and fluidity, casuals don't often consider the ramifications of something as simple as a "turn around" animation fucking up your movement in an action game or why combos/attacks can't be sluggish and too long.
Turn around meaning simply turning the character around, say you're playing DMC and you need to turn around fast to hit an enemy, in those games turning around happens instantly but in a game like FFXV they have a whole slow animation for turning around and it breaks flow and movement, it looks smooth but the actual feeling of it is very sluggish. Something as simple as jumping feeling as clunky or choppy as it was in BBS destroys flow and movement.
you don't like KH3 because it's not 2FM, you don't have to lie lol
@@arosbastion7052 Ah, the age old. "Your critique isn't actually valid you're telling a lie" Defense. Classy. Some of us actually liked KH3 but wanted some of Kh2FM's elements in KH3. You know like, precise controls, balanced options, tight revenge value management, combo control, combo mods etc. It's not like we like the individual elements and were sad about specific things, no it's because it isn't numbered the same. Clearly. Almost like, some of us enjoyed aspects of one game, and not another. You know, different opinions and tastes for different people. What a wild thing I know. People like different things. *GASP*
Clone Loli yup animations are way more fluid looking, but more sluggish feeling. Its the drawback to more realism. I like both, i dont really mind, Final fantasy feeling like that, cause i play it more for the story. Also i Hate to be that guy,(not really) but if these games were on PC it would be a-lot smoother feeling.
@@BorkMemester Honestly fair. There's a lot of things we can level at 2fm as issues, and not running smooth would be one of them.
It's not about wanting every post-KH2 game to be a sequel to KH2 (even though they are, by definition), it's about none of them even attempting to be as good if not better than KH2. Not even FM, base, I'd argue.
I don't think it's entitled to expect a sequel to be better than the game before it, I'd even settle for it being just as good, if not just a bit worse. But nah, it's entitled to expect games to be okay nowadays.
To be fair tough after KH2 this isn't the same team so not the same Level of abilities, and to be honnest while not being as good as KH2FM Team Osaka did a massive improvment on the gameplay side with KH3 over BBS and DDD (which were honnestly kind of garbage gameplay wise) and even more with ReMind and for me this prove that at least they care and they are trying, the KH3's Data Org and Yozora were the most fun fights I did in a KH games since my LV1 Run of KH2FM and I praise them for that and I really hope they will continue to improve in that direction.
@@nesoukkefka1741 KH2 isn't the same team... as compared to what?
To be completely honest, improving upon BBS and DDD isn't an achievement, it's LESS than the bare minimum one should put into any action game. It's okay to enjoy their combat, or any KH game's combat, but I don't think they stand up to scrutiny.
As for proving that they were trying with ReMind, the only thing it proved to me is that Nomura cares more about Versus 13 than Kingdom Hearts. And he can care about it all the wants, mind you, but from most accounts it's his fault that Versus 13 never got made, and I find it despicable that you have to fund the project he ruined KH3 for if you want to have any fun with KH3. Not only is it largely stuff that should've been in the base game (as in, scenes in the base game don't make sense on PURPOSE so they can be finished in ReMind), but then I have to deal with Nomura's baby rage, no, just no. No amount of okay boss design is worth that.
@@Peasham KH2 is handle by Square's Tokyo Team and BBS, DDD and KH3 are handle by Osaka's team, they aren't the same developper.
To be perfectly honnest I don't care at all for KH's story, plot wise BBS was disappointing and DDD was straight up garbage, Nomura can do all the bullshit he want at this point it won't change anything, KH's story is a complete mess since a long time and anybody who deny it is just delusionnal, so I don't mind him picking up his lost ideas for Versus XIII in KH at that point plot-wise the KH series is fucked so whatever they pull in it won't change anything.
The boss design for Datas and Yozora was great, and while I do agree this DLC is way too expensive, and the story part sucks, but gameplay wise it was enjoyable and free patch they did to improve Sora's base combos was more than welcome.
@@nesoukkefka1741 I mean, I'll be honest, I don't care. Every sequel to Devil May Cry 3 was handled by a different dev team, and yet every single one, even including the one handled by a completely different company, was presentable. Never was there a drop in quality as gigantic as in Kingdom Hearts. Other people handling the sequels simply put is not an excuse. If they weren't fit for the job, others should've developed the sequels.
Oh, it is an absolute fucking mess, I mostly just gave a damn about the characters. Funnily enough, it's kinda like DMC, the plots are more often than not trash, but it's the characters that make them shine. I had zero expectations for the plot, but shit, I thought the character would interact with each other. Like, at all. Not only was the setup perfect for fun interactions, it literally makes zero sense that some characters didn't interact with each other. I figured he'd drop the ball on the plot, he's been doing that shit since BBS onwards, but jesus christ, Riku doesn't say a single word to Kairi or vice versa. That's some next level shit if ya ask me, and that's why I don't even wanna think of supporting Versus 13, it's clear he cared more about putting that in the game as opposed to not only the plot of KH3, but the characters of KH3. I wouldn't have bought KH3 had I known it'd go to funding Versus 13, and I'm not about to pay 30 bucks for okay superbosses when regular enemies back in KH2 were designed just as well.
@@Peasham Honestly Limit cut and Secret episode have the best gameplay content in kh history. So calling them merely ok or just as a way to promote versus XIII isnt really fair.
I want utility in options again. Summons, limits, drives and magic all had different uses and modifiers on eachother. 3 was so stale in most everything being just damage only
Stil my biggest gripe about KH3 combat to this day. KH3 Remind only fixed one aspect which was base Sora's physical combos, which while great still makes the combat pale in comparison to KH2FM's versatility and variety. KH3 is like a pocket knife while KH2FM is like a multi tool.
I think they should have kept formchanges and summons (and maybe grand magic, or get the RNG out of the system) as part of a drive bar, and do not give drive recovery. Too often the answer to combat is "spam the overpowered summon, and refresh with ethers", especially in Critical Mode.
@@vadandrumist1670 Drive Recoveries are fine, they were always Menu Only in 2, and its not like they made Tents battle usable, even if the mental image is wonderful
Ignoring the utility of some mechanics in KH3 is the same as saying "only summons are different in KH2, because the rest just damage enemies", which is objectively false.
Everything has a different utility in KH3, the problem is that you can't notice that in lower difficulties because doesn't matter what you use, it will always work (pretty much like in every other KH game).
The same happens in KH2, if you play in Proud or below you will never need to use other mechanic than base Sora combat, RC, Cure, Thunder and Reflect.
@@Mario_KHX I played 3 crit and beat yozora. I know water has I frames on cast and aero gathers enemies. But you really cant deny that every single option in kh3 is just damage, nothing really separates shotlocks from summons or attraction flow. Or even form changes for that matter. They're all just damage. Agile claws doesnt have any different utility from storm lance or buster hammer or really any form that isnt counter shield. They mostly all do the same thing
KH2FM is to KH3RM as Whole Grain Cereal is to Fruit Loops.
One offers more substance and nutrition as opposed to color or sugary flavor, but in the end it’s still just a bowl of cereal.
I don’t know, don’t ask why. It came in my head at 2 am I’m tired, ok thanks, great video BB. 👏
Imma use this analogy, I’ll be sure to credit you
@@jazaelperez5213 KH2 combat is like a Multi tool while KH3 is like a pocket knife. KH3 looks sharp and cool but it's combat variety and versatility is narrow. KH2FM'S combat gives you multiple tools at your disposal and each tool has their own merit and distinct use.
Idk every kingdom hearts game being a Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix & Knuckles Featuring Dante from the "Devil May Cry" series sequel sounds good to me.
Short conclusion : Fanboys can't stand criticism even if it's constructive criticism.
They take criticism as attacks on them personally. Some people align themselves too much with these games to where it's a borderline obsession.
@@sonymicronin Yeah honnestly I think it's sad cause at the end of the day no games is perfect there is always some flaws, most people criticing the game and comparing with KH2FM just want the games to be as good or even better than that, which I think is good.
@@nesoukkefka1741 Yeah. We just want an evolution and improvement over KH2FM, not a carbon copy. For many of us KH3 wasn't even bad, it was good but just dissapointing that it wasn't better than KH2FM. In fact, as someone who adores KH2FM and places it in my top 3 games of all time, even I can state some legitimate criticism against it. For example I can say for sure that KH1 and KH3 did world design and interaction and exploration leagues better than KH2. Also I think the Graphics of KH3 are phenomenal, a good evolution of KH2 graphics. It just a shame that combat was worse imo, and for me and others who mainly play and enjoy KH for it's combat that was a huge disappointment.
Well it is also vice versa to be honest. I have seen enough examples that the person who criticize things go completely hyporite when the other guy gives criticism to something else.
People like to believe that someone who carefully construct criticism and state facts are very collected people, but if someone else does the same for his or hers favorite media, like 70% of the time they will deny it and call you a liar.
So it is just like an endless circle without an end, you can blame the fanboys, but I believe that everyone is a little hypocrite, myself included.
I just realized, 2FM fans have the EXACT same complaints on certain mechanics they wanted as DMC fans who played DMC 4 religiously wanted for DMC 5. KH2 fans will complain about the lack of snappy combos in KH3, as well as the lack of Drive forms, meaningful expression, etc. With DMC fans, they complain about the lack of inertia, no Royal Guard flying, no Turbo mode, and other stuff from DMC 4 that weren't in DMC 5.
I'd complain more that the story's just DMC3 for Nero and that they hid all the unlockables behind a paywall, but that's just me
Honestly I'd take keyblades transformations over drive forms but that's my opinion
@@lucapeyrefitte6899 Would be dope if we could somehow have both. Though that's just wishful thinking and will never happen oof.
Lax C. I feel like we do, since it seems like a logical development for Sora, each transformation has red, blue or yellow and I think green? and then white for the ultimate keyblade
@@Peasham Wait, which unlockables? I'm actually curious about this since besides the Devil Breakers and the second Cavalier I wasn't aware of anything else being paid content (In the context of actual money rather than Red Orbs, anyways.)
Aside from that question, still hoping we get a 5SE with more options and a randomish BP option like DMC3 had.
Well said.
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I recently played through KH2FM on critical mode for the first time, and wow. It was one of the best and most memorable gaming experiences I’ve ever had. Learning enemy and boss AI / moves, employing different strategies, utilizing my toolset to the fullest without it ruining the game or trivializing the difficulty.
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It was just.. so refreshing. -not just for a KH game, but as a game in general as well.
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And I think I should clarify to any naysayers that this isn’t coming from a place of biased nostalgia; I actually played the Osaka games way before I did KH2. Its only in retrospect that I’ve grown to vastly appreciate and enjoy KH2FM’s rich mechanical depth and competency.
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That said, I encourage Osaka team to push themselves. Despite my many grievances with KH3, I believe they could very well deliver a product just as good as 2FM if they put their heads together and set out to understand why KH2FM is regarded so highly from an objective mechanical / design perspective.
I find the accusation “all KH2FM fans just want every KH to be a clone of 2FM” hilariously reminiscent of “All TTYD fans want every PM to be a clone of TYD.”
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..like, no. lol, that’s a very shallow accusation / mindset to have. Yes I’m sure those kind of fans do exist, but nah don’t put words in our mouth. We prefer KH2FM and TTYD over the subsequent games because despite how old they are (around 15 years) they manage to be more mechanically deep / competent in comparison to the products being made now.
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Having a KH game where Sora’s block just doesn’t work sometimes is a problem. having a PM game where tens of thousands of coins are thrown at you, thus squandering your incentive to battle is a problem. Having a KH game where enemies just fall out of combos because they’re too floaty is a problem. Having a PM without all the things that gave the series its unique identity is a problem.
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Nitpicking is one thing, but fairly criticizing a game’s objective design flaws is another. There are still elements to enjoy in any game sure, but if your response to the criticism is simply “get used to it / accept and enjoy it for what it is without criticizing it,” well.. that’s just complacency.
Lance Beryl I don’t mind the new paper Mario games I think the paper Mario fanbase only wants battles to have a meaning with lvls but they don’t necessarily want a clone of ttyd
Asian
yeah. I still need to play origami king to make a fair assessment.
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Obviously the ditching of more robust stories and mechanics, apparent balancing issues, and a lack of legitimately original races / characters also are some of the complaints I and many others have about the recent direction.
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The new games may still be enjoyable in their own sort of way, but yeah.. it’s disappointing to know where the series could be, how much farther it could push beyond, yet it likely never will.
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We have a slew of indies upcoming tho, so that original spirit may continue to live on somewhere I guess..
Lance Beryl yeah I heard there is a game called bug fables that resembles the good old paper Mario series back in its glory days haven’t played it yet though
Marshal Wagner I agree with that
I think both 2fm and 3rm are amazing games and my absolute favorites in the series. I can play them both many times over and not get bored. To me both have things the other does better.
Well said.
Coming from a fan since kh 1... you're not wrong 🤣
2fm just feel so smooth, i like kh3 but playing kh2 i just fell like well lubricated gears that fits perfectly, everything just works
Kh2fm is one of the greatest games ever made. It's in my personal top 10 games of all time. Therefore I want more KH games to be like 2fm Lel.
Imagine a remake of 358/2 but with the level design of KH1FM the gameplay of KH2FM and the technical developments of KH3
There aren't many technical developments in 3. The coding and the enemy AI is better in 1 and 2 and they use a more advanced technic for enemies.
I un-ironically want KH every game to be like 2FM(at least combat wise) or I guess an evolution of it.
Personally, KH3 actually did copy and/or build upon KH2FM in certain respects.
They both have the same MP system. They both have combo modifiers, but KH3 moved them to circle, so you could dodge or block mid-combo. In fact, for all their flaws, free combo cancels is something that all of the Osaka Team games did better than KH2FM-KH3 was just the first one to have snappier attacks with proper hitstun as well.
Aside from combo cancels, Revenge is one of the most improved aspects from KH2FM to KH3. Basically now, enemies give reactable tells on their Revenge Attacks, which keeps all of the beneficial properties of a Revenge System, but makes it more fair to the player. In fact, I was particularly unhappy about the old way, because DMC3 showed how to do it right with the Vergil boss fights.
Another thing I want to address is Formchanges. You see, I liked them because none of them had the severe defensive shortcomings that some KH2FM’s Drive Forms had, and many of KH3’s Forms felt sufficiently unique. Shields were good for blocking & ultra powerful reprisals, Blitz Form was good for having dodge attacks, hammers were good for AOE & hitstun, Element Form was good for ranged magic attacks a la Wisdom Form, and Mirage Staff had that unique clone attack mechanic. Moreover, it’s often been erroneously claimed that KH3 Forms don’t have a cost, and this is largely untrue. Rather, risk IS the cost of being able to enter a Form, since in most scenarios, attacking enemies leaves Sora open to being attacked himself. Moreover, since the Situation meter drops if Sora remains passive, it encourages players to build momentum and not just try to run away from enemies.
Well said. The simple fact that KH3 has only been out for a single year (almost two) while 2 and 2FM have been out for 14 years respectively, shows that there is simply not enough time just yet to fully explore KH3's combat. Even 2FM didn't build up the reputation and recognition of its insanely intricate combat until 2013-2014 with 2.5 ReMIX on the PS3! I personally love KH3 especially with 1.09 which made it top KH2 for me instantly. Combo cancelling makes a lot of the unwanted risk go away with proper use, plus Double Form is basically every single KH3 drive in one, except Wrathful Flurry! (which I think is the shield's reprisal.) Fast, blitzy combos of the speed/blitz form, heavy hitting finishers of the power form, AMAZING range, plus 360 block, its own launcher and ground crusher, and some of the coolest combos in the entire series. Yeah KH3 doesn't have Explosion, Horizontal Slash or Dodge Slash, but it is honestly better than KH2 at this point in my opinion, Data Org is objectively better, and all in all I just feel like people are sometimes just looking for ways to keep 2FM on a pedestal. Maybe for some KH3RM doesn't evoke the same feel of 2FM. Thats fine. But its the fact that its successes are just not acknowledged that widely in contrast. Trueblade Seeker does some of the most insane shit with KH3's combat while still no damaging bosses, and thats just crazy to me. Not to mention on your point of forms, the fact that you can't block at all in a Drive in 2/2FM is just ridiculous lol.
@@zerosolis6664 The point about Drive Forms is especially important, because you have to pay a high fixed cost to enter a form, so you can’t just spend a little bit of meter and there’s no real parity between cost and benefit with respect to form time.
On of KH2’s biggest flaws was the fact that its difficulty could mostly only seem to jump between extremes. And I think this issue with the forms is a leading contributor. If enemies aren’t powerful and relentless enough, then camping with Cure magic and/or spamming Magnet Burst & entering forms to heal trivialized any damage they dealt. On the other hand, if they were fast & powerful enough, then you’d be floundering around trying to deal with Sora’s subpar defensive options and high costs for entering forms.
It would’ve been better if forms and summons alike just directly used Drive Gauges over time like a Devil Trigger. Additionally, a couple of the forms should’ve had better defensive prowess. Conversely, entering a form should not have healed Sora, and instead, a very slow HP regen over time would’ve been great, because it would’ve made an interesting trade off- that is, attack in a form but have less form time for HP regen or attack less for more HP restoration.
Oh shut up. Revenge on mobs is nuts. I'm comboing that larxene nobody and he just starts taking no damage and does the lightning attack messing me up. It makes you lose time.
3:40 I consider 2FM the best game ever made, and want to see it *exceeded.* Not repeated.
So far I've been disappointed. :)
I haven't found another game that offers a similar amount of useful variety.
I haven't found another game that offers potential for total mastery through the existence of revenge value, which allows the player to manipulate boss behavior almost completely in many fights given sufficient knowledge and skill.
I haven't found another game that feels that fast and snappy in its combat (though I will say that YS 8 feels pretty good).
13:00 I think maybe something that's missing here is that a lot of the wider KH fanbase aren't huge fans of action games like DMC or competitive games with complex inputs in general, and see the genre almost as incidental relative to the story or characters or plot that they play it for.
Well it's not even about complex inputs or difficulty in action games, it's literally just how satisfying it is to hit stuff in a game about hitting stuff.
Ah, if only kh3 had reliable defense magic, good guarding, combos that feel proper, better revenge value, more balanced summoning, smoother control of the character, limits that aren't random, damage scaling on crit lv 1, control over when I want a drive form.... So much more...
Truth
@@silentjoker45 it sucks so hard. Especially when I look at the vanitas mod or aqua mod. How can a small team of fans make a better kh game than what Osaka team could do with kh3?
Aside from the guarding very rarely(in my experience) failing, the guarding feels pretty damn good, it's still a mostly a pretty a mindless game where your hardest choice is to either do a big dick aoe attack at the expense of your mp or to do a shittier version of that same attack except you don't lose all your mp
I've played through KH2 quite a few times. I somewhat recently finished the main story and all non-2fm bosses on crit level 1. One of the things that I enjoyed the most about that particular playthrough was how every fight felt like a puzzle as well as a test of skill. The game gives you so many tools to work with that it makes it a lot of fun to try out different abilities, builds, summons, items, etc, to see just what works well against each encounter.
Of course it wasn't all fun. The first part of the game is pretty brutal since you don't actually have any tools to work with, and there are a couple of other fights after that which are pretty terrible on crit level 1 (I'm looking at you Genie Jafar, The Experiment Groundshaker, and Final Xemnas, the last of whom still has broken reaction commands)
You'll notice that with exception for Final Xemnas, those all restrict your options in some way, Genie Jafar is Genie Jafar and The Jankass Carpet Combat, Groundshaker is Lion Sora... and then ignores all the cool stuff Lion Sora can do, unlike Scar, The Experiment is pretty much The Example of a boss thats horribly dependent on its RC to fight due to becoming invulnerable, I don't count the Beast's Castle bosses because those're just HP Gates on the "adds" phase rather then chasing down a angry laser head to make the boss vulnerable again
Exactly. The only thing that kh3 did good was that you get some movement abilities at the beginning of the game.
Tbh, I love BB's youtube community. Everybody gather together and share their own opinion. This is what I call healthy community lol.
I actually like kh1 more sometimes, it was well balanced.
If the game is not fun it's not that we love just one game. Re coded was awesome and it's similar to bbs, but has better combat and balance
I don't really like kh1 but fm made it really good with the new combos.
As someone who loves both KH3 and 2FM equally, I want a balance between both gameplays.
There's a weird trend in games that's kind of boiling over now where as games have degraded over the course of its series, the people that liked the older games and want the new games to be more like them are now bashed as being elitists, see KH2FM, see Melee, see Paper Mario series. Zelda might go through this too if BOTW and BOTW2 are a turning point for 3d zelda games.
Ultimate is better than Melee tho and I say this as somebody who loves melee
A lot of the KH2FM detractors really don't realize just how well made KH2FM is as an action game. It had great combat, a very large roster of enemies/bosses to fight that threw curveballs at you all the time, plenty of options you could use in a fight, great mobility options (which were somewhat wasted due to the lack of platforming outside of CoR imo), every weapon had genuine reason to be picked over others even in the late game for certain situations or playstyles, and it introduced two absolutely amazing design concepts in the form of both revenge value and the battle level system (the thing that makes level 1 runs even possible without sucking)
There's also nothing wrong with wanting a sequel to a good game to play similarly to that good game lmao, why do people take that as a bad thing?
Usually as soon as you post a criticism, they'll go and say
"Can you just let other people enjoy their game? stop spreading negative vibes"
aaand we're done, you can't say anything, they just won.
Hey man this comment is really harshing my mellow, can you please stop spreading negative vibes?
Well I wouldn't say they've won. It's just we've hit an impasse/brick wall because the other side isn't willing to listen nor have their minds changed so at that point we're just wasting time.
@@Webshooters1 If someone is not seeking formal critiques ,and you put upon them formal critiques they have every right to say that. It's like some random stranger coming up to you, and telling you not to offer critiques on something when it wasn't requested. It makes you want to respond, and it makes you want to argue the point, and you will argue the point, and at that point all that has happened is an argument. An argument does indeed "spread negative vibes" when the person simply wants to enjoy a game they like without being inundated with negative vibes from people feeling compelled to tell them they shouldn't enjoy the game...which is, in fact, what you are saying in making such unrequested criticisms. Do away with this thought that "I'm just pointing out flaws to try to help a series I like" You aren't going to help the series by flaunting your dislike to random people who do like it. Doing so is only seeking backlash, and argument.
@@alexrivers8163 most of these conversations are reserved to public internet spaces. Everyone has the right to post whatever praises or criticisms they wish on public forums/videos/etc. If someone enjoys a game less because other people on the internet, thats just a sign that they are incredibly immature and insecure. If someone was truly secure with themselves, negative opinions on their personal taste would not effect their enjoyment whatsoever. If it really effects someone that much then they should evaluate their relationship with the internet.
Enjoying something less because you are aware that other people dont enjoy it is a major sign of insecurity.
I respect and appreciate your opinions. But I feel you missed the mark by not having a “what the KH3 fans means by saying this” like you did with KH2 fans. I love KH3 and I accept it has many (and I mean many) flaws. But this felt like just an exposè on defending 2fm while dumming down the defenses for later games. I 100% get that’s not the intent. But look at it this way. All your “what the 2fm fan says” comments are extremely well spoken and smart, while all the responding to 2fm ones are crude, rude, and stupidly undetailed to the point they all say the same thing. I just feel it’s not fair to those of us that are critical of 2fm to be placed in the same broad catergory as the trolls who just want to say 2fm sucks. I just feel if you’re gonna have a video like this, you should really be fair to both sides.
You're definitely right, I'll make it a point to have future videos with both viewpoints.
What was hard is the "you just want 2fm" nonsense usually stems from that minority of other/kh3 fans that dismiss 2fm immediately. But the arguments I threw together genuinely were things I saw on Twitter being spoken at the time.
I think tying transformations to keyblades was probably a bad idea. It's a cool idea in concept that is meaningfully different than Drive forms since it's tied to your loadout and not the other way around, but it's difficult to provide meaningful distinctions between them. The game obviously has to give you more than 4-5 keyblades so you end up with certain ones just being redundant because it can be very difficult to find ways to shake-up gameplay. Working on my own games I sometimes find myself stretching my ideas thin by putting how cool a concept/feature would would be before the core of the gameplay and how feasibly I can actually change it up. KH3's transformations don't necessarily need to modify things the same as 2's do(even though they share a significant amount of systems like abilities), but there's only so many ways you can modify the base gameplay in a balanced way.
I think 2(FM) was already starting to push it with Master and Final form but they're just meaningfully different enough to be okay. They also piled on attributes that make each form unique like their movement abilities, extra abilities in general, and unique properties like Limit's healing and magic replacement. Some of that is there in 3 but them being tied to Keyblades makes them replaceable. You're not really encouraged to learn what makes these forms unique and they're not distinct enough to force you to. And since they can be swapped you don't really strategize around them the way you do when you equip specific keyblades to drive forms in KH2 or spend enough time with them to think about a specific one as part of your arsenal. It leads to them feeling less like a loadout you have prepared for specific situations and more like super move you can do with one of your weapons. In which case you're just going to pick the coolest one or settle for the one on the best keyblade stat-wise you have. I'd also argue that there's enough keyblades to make it difficult to really keep track of the individual differences in your head unless you're committed to learning the game beyond what it really asks of you, except between the 5 or so broader categories of forms.
I also don't feel like transformations and shotlocks really carry the same weight that abilities on keyblades did in 2. There was some trade-off to using the very best weapons (Zero EXP and Negative combo) that isn't really present in 3. The abilities also enhanced Sora's core gameplay in meaningful way by modifying what you were already doing in gameplay rather than feeling like something slapped on top of the core of the game. Shotlocks especially have that feeling of 'each keyblade has it's own minigame' that doesn't really compare to the strategy of having to pick between much quicker MP regen or better finisher damage. 2's keyblade abilities felt like an upgrade to 1, where each new keyblade tended to feel like the new best one for one of the stats. The abilities gave each one a real value, even (especially really for some of the Data fights) at the end of the game. 3's sadly feel like a half step down. There's definitely a strategic element that goes into which one you pick but it still kind of boiled down to which one had the higher numbers for me when I played through.
Been a while since I've played 3 (and haven't played the DLC or Critical yet due to being busy with school and work) so I apologize if I've forgotten anything about this. Going mostly off my memory and some quick wiki checking. Thank you for reading my essay of a comment!
Dang, I really hope you do play the DLC/update 1.09 and Critical then! You may find yourself second guessing some of this or at least really enjoying it besides. Personally, I still enjoyed each Keyblade's abilities in KH3, especially since upgrading them gave you new ones. And I've always loved Shotlock from BBS so I was ecstatic to see it return, and have every Keyblade have their own base level shotlock, and max level shotlock. Hell, Starlight even has a completely different Ragnarok to the kingdom key. Using Fire Boost against Marluxia for example by using Dawn Till Dusk or Master Chef (just like using Bond of Flame in 2FM against Demyx, Vexen or Marluxia) especially when you're also using accessories or armor that give you those abilities, really does still make a difference. Yeah because you can upgrade them higher strength/magic IS important, but I always found myself switching it up. I don't want to talk too much about the updates/DLC/critical as you said you haven't played yet, but I really do think you'll enjoy it! Think about how many times you may have played 2FM, and how long the game has been out. There has not nearly been enough time for people to truly experiment with everything KH3/ReMind has to offer. Final Form Firaga strats are basically back too for speedruns lol.
@@zerosolis6664 Yo, I appreciate the reply! I picked up Remind recently when it was on sale and just got some time off from school/work. I plan on playing through it soon and doing a Crit playthrough before that. I still had a lot of fun with KH3 the first time through so I'm excited to play it with all of the changes and especially the new bosses. Really looking forward to it!
@@goblinpope No problem! Sick. I do believe that the new abilities are NG+, so if you have a Proud clear save, and you dont mind having all your Keyblades right away (including Ultima, they will all be base level again) you can start a Critical playthrough with all the new abilities I think! I actually played level 1 Proud right after I beat the game the first time and even though that was with the old combos and it was still a fun challenge, I actually started some crit level 1 data org today (I EZ code'd a lvl 1 crit run specifically to have one quickly for remind content xD but I do plan to do a real crit level 1 run soon) and level 1 is just so much better on crit. Scaling is actually pretty good in data org/secret boss, and I did some test fights with Battlegate 0, and San Fransokyo (latest-game content possible for best results I felt), and especially using Ultima Weapon/Kingdom Key/Oathkeeper and Oblivion, and with the new combos, formchanges, especially Second Form Keyblades and Light/Dark form, actually feel like extensions to Sora's combat instead of using transformations for combos other than speed slash or triple rush haha. And what's crazy is that those abilities are actually really good to use now because of combo cancelling! It might seem like placebo but Sora does do more damage now (especially if you use Ultima for combo boost/air combo boost) due to having a longer combo. Imagine kh2fm's level 1 damage without combo finishers like explosion or modifiers like flash step/snapshot. so level 1 is actually quite fun! Especially in battlegate 0 I felt like it didnt drag. blocking and countering/using magic and forms felt satisfying and pretty balanced imo. Links are still either really good or not that great I'd say at level 1, but they are definitely not strong enough anymore to even be considered to be used instead of Sora's base kit or transformations. Still think they're better than kh2 summons but they really needed variety and some more balance.
Anyway sorry to have such a long reply again, I hope to hear some of your thoughts later if possible! KH3's base game still has some issues especially with enemies but overall the changes to the combat really make mob fights more enjoyable if you ask me. Especially combo cancelling by itself! Knowing you can guard and dodge out of anything (other than stuff like final finishers but it's still good timing if you're quick!), and I'm talking like even as fast as being able to guard after you trigger Dark Inferno's counter via RV, or as fast as the first swing of speed slash or first hit of triple rush, just makes high risk high reward a thing and makes you feel safer in mobs. Plus don't forget risk dodge! It's good lol. There are still things like enemies you cant see (I always felt like mobs sometimes had too many enemies haha but it's more manageable now imo), but stuff like off screen lock on actually helps with that now. Anyways like i said i dont want to talk too much about it but here I am going off haha. You should experience it yourself! Have fun dude and enjoy the data fights. It'll be worth the wait and replay to get to them on critical!
You missed one of my personal complaints, Any disney worlds with the exception of monster's inc, toy story and big hero 6 are literal garbage compared to kh2 or kh1. Except for the 3 I mentioned that had custom stories made for the game the rest all but completely remove sora from their movie's plot line, have no character progression and feign progress without explaining anything.
Like in Frozen you meet elsa once and anna once and outside of that you are climbing up and down a mountain only to fight a random heartless that comes out of a guy they don't introduce in game. Hercules you meet herc like 3 times and they don't explain/show the plot of the movie at all really only for sora at the end to talk to herc as if sora even knew herc was dealing with where he belonged as far as mortal vs god realm. PotC you are only there for the start and end of the movie plot with random movie cutscenes thrown in there in between (that happen without sora even knowing). Tangled you see a few almost completely ripped from the movie cutscene with sora thrown in, have no visible character progression but now the 2 characters love each other and stuff happens, etc etc. And not to forget that nothing of real story importance happens in any of the worlds. Honestly between the random implementation of "attraction flows" that they never give an in game reason for, how bad the movie plots of disney worlds are and the removal of all final fantasy characters (outside of moogles and not counting anything from the dlc) from the game it all feels extremely sus that disney was pulling some shit and squenix can't say anything about it.
Also why'd they have to go with the ending they did? Sora is finally away from donald and goofy and it was the perfect opportunity to let sora and kairi have a game together but nope can't let them ever spend more than a handful of cutscenes together.
In kingdom hearts 1 and (arguably) kingdom hearts 2, the Disney worlds complemented the central narrative.
In kingdom hearts 3 the Disney worlds were a narrative hindrance so detached from the central story that even the main character wasn't sure why he was there.
What's the point of even having a Disney world if you're not even going to confront any of the film's antagonists?
Nothing of real story importance happens in the worlds? Did you even pay attention?
The black box was brought up in The Caribbean. Vanitas shows up in Monstroplis. The 7 princesses of heart were a MASSIVE plot point and were brought up in both Arendelle and Tangled.
There were tons of important things.
Also KH2 had the exact issue that you think KH3 had. Literally none of the worlds in KH2 had anything to do with the plot, and I’d argue Sora felt more disconnected in the plot of those worlds than KH3. & None of those worlds progress Sora as a character.
I love KH2, don’t get me wrong. But it had a ton of issues with its Disney worlds. Issues that weren’t nearly as present in KH3.
a cat Which is why they confronted the Organization instead, which were the main antagonists.
@@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE Those are merely scrabbles. Just adding one or two little quips of plot does not over yet give much. There is more when it comes interesting story and execution. It is true those chars appear in those worlds but in the end it doesn't really affect to end results in very compelling way. But unlike in KH2 they at least had some funny moments which gave a vision that these Disney folks had their own local campaign against Darkness.
I agree that KH2 is the lowest on the ranks when it comes down to Disney worlds, which overall weakens its plot. Damn... I kinda wish Roxas had been the main char in KH2. He likely as a Nobody doomed to fade would have had many kin moments with Auron and maybe forging his own friendships with locals while rebelling against his old crew had been big improvement.
Before Re:Mind- 2:FM > KH3
After Re:Mind- 2:FM < KH3
Agreed, I feel this one hard
it's funny how this is similar to Paper Mario TTYD fans, things becoming changed through time that doesn't reach the same progress as a game before that did battle systems to its peak. Then newer fans or just casual fans complain about the people who just want better gameplay saying how they're too stuck on the past. It's a cycle alright. Plus RNG invading on the newest game more and more meh.
Also Kh2 is a more satisfying conclusion to the KH franchise than 3 and that's just bonkers.
KH1 > CoM>KH2 pretty good trilogy right there
Except KH2 didn’t even conclude everything though. And KH3 was never supposed to be a conclusion
KH2FM is the best game I have ever played, I’ve bought every 2FM port and never get tired of it
Per my profile pic it's obvious I love 2FM and I've also done a few speedruns of varying sorts on it. I've played it many times and adore the game. That said, it disheartened me that you really work for the 2FM arguments and give none to the KH3 arguments. For example, I thought of plenty of much more reasonable counter arguments and to me that shows you're not showing the strongest arguments you've seen or can imagine (as shown in the 2nd slide) but just whatever makes KH3 fans look dismissive and that sucks.
There are more reasonable counterarguments, but the discussion isn't really a "who is right?" or "who has the better argument?", it's a discussion about how 2FM fans will bring up something they dislike about KH3, and the response by a large chunk of fans is "you just want 2FM" instead of providing an actual counterargument.
Apologies in advance if it felt like I was generalizing all KH3 fans, cause that wasn't the intention.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz I get that to an extent, maybe I'd just like to see you gabbing with someone you respect who values KH3 more than you (not that you cant have your own opinion!). I think itd make an interesting dialogue as opposed to you pulling at the low hanging fruit. Cause yeah, to be totally clear I 100% agree with you that "we want another 2FM!" is not what 2FM fans are saying and I should know, I'm a huge fan myself!
I felt your comment
@@mituskey thanks! I'm glad other folks could see my point. :)
Can you give a few examples of those "much more reasonable counter arguments"?
Think my experience is different from interactions with the community. It's not the "this issue could be better with [2FM feature]" that bothers me, it's responses on the level of "this issue is not like [2FM feature] IDK how people like this". Which IMO seems like a very binary statement (caused again, by the 240 character sound bytes mentioned).
And to that, ofc I'll "defend" a game because it's not that black and white. e.g. floaty combat: yes, I can see how this can bother people who want to play at a high level. No, I don't think it, by itself, ruins a game. Me playing through BBS's 3 campaigns twice and still having a good time clearly show there's something there that appeals to me and others out there. And TBH, it wouldn't be the very first thing I'd fix in BBS either (enemy hitstun would. floatiness is maybe top 5).
Yeah, the other half of the extreme exists as well and it's equally as annoying. Probably even more so for fans who publicly enjoy 2FM's game design because they get lumped into the whole dumb thing.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz yeah, that's definitely a big crux of it. Of course I love many features in KH2. But I'd rather not have every discussion on what are generally not gamebreaking issues I have in a game turn into a turf war.
Think that's a big thing of it. Short of CoM's card battle system and 358's level design (IMO), there aren't that many game mechanics in KH that I feel "break" a game for me. But it seems any praise or criticism of a feature reflects on the entire game in the lens of some people. Which just isn't true, obviously. It's not like Anlantica's sheer existence means everything in KH 1/2 are on the same level as it.
Bbs sucks. It's so broken. You played bbs on beginner? It has horrible bosses and block doesn't even work. And it feels uncomfortable
I think the problem is that the fans got really defensive over the series bacause of all the sh*t it got before and after KH3's release and I can't really blame them for that. I remember that back then there were lots of critics being as basic as : "KH3 sucks, KH2 is way better." and other stuff like that (there were a few constructive criticism but those were swallowed by the endless sh*tstorm). Also, it's been labelled a bad game by multiple youtubers (despite not being as bad as they claimed it was). Because of that lots of fans don't make the difference between criticism and bashing. And since then, it's nearly impossible to have a constructive discussion about KH3 because there's always this "KH3 sucks vs KH3 is great" war.
Also, there are quite a few KH2FM elitists. Once I saw a guy beeing like : "I'm a KH fan, KH2 rules the other games suck.". Like, how can you claim you're a fan of a series while you like 10% of it? XD
My man dunkey actually gave KH3 a 0 out of 5, and that was less controversial than giving Naughty Dog's new golf game a 4/5.
They call him an elitist, but he knows most Keyblade transformation names from KH3 so I don't really see elitism here.
As someone who's platinumed KH1 and base KH3 and who's nearly platinumed KH2, I think all 3 are great. However, imo KH1 is actually my favourite out of all of them:
1) Combat. I appreciate KH2's and KH3's diverse arsenal of abilities, but for me KH1 has always been the most fun to play. In KH2, magic always felt underpowered up until I used Reflect to kill Roxas, and summons basically made you unstoppable. Drive forms were fun, but the fact that the movement abilities were locked behind 2 hours of grinding was frustrating for someone wondering why the hell they still hadn't gotten Dodge Roll by the time they entered World that never was. In KH3 every ability was just super powerful, I felt like I could 1v13 the entire organisation honestly. But this meant that at least I could use the abilities interchangeably and make the fights more personalized. What I really commend KH3 for doing is getting rid of the infinite healing loop that could be done in the past games with MP and Drive recovery abilities. With all of that said, in KH1 your arsenal was a lot smaller, however everything was always a viable way of dealing with stuff. To beat a boss, you didn't have to know what tool to use, you had to figure out how to best use the few tools you had. The internet guides could only get you so far.
2) Difficulty (I'm going off my Standard runs on each game since I haven't done my critical run of KH2 yet) KH3 was a walk in the park. KH2 was a walk in the park except for Roxas and Data Axel. KH1 was the hardest for me to beat when I first was going through it. Clayton is an evil boss who absolutely demolishes you if you're not careful. Captain Hook can blow your brains out if you don't react fast. Riku 2 I was stuck in for ages because it was so tough to spot the openings in his last phase, same for Ansem 2 but for the entire battle in general. Don't get me started on Phantom bs Sephiroth, those 2 killed me more than every KH2 superboss combined.
3) Music. A bit of a shorter section but an important one nonetheless. Don't Think Twice is for sure my favourite Utada song of the trilogy but Simple and Clean is is a classic. The OG Dearly Beloved is beautiful, but I appreciate how it's complexity has grown along with the complexity of the games. The Gummi Ship theme is iconic for me and hearing anything other than Blast Off in KH2 just felt wrong. I also really like Twilight Town's theme in future games but think Traverse Town's is more memorable.
4) World design. KH2 felt really bland world-wise. The entire game just felt like courtyards for cutscenes to take place and corridors to take you between those cutscenes. Of course there are some outliers like Twilight Town's tram common or the cavern of remembrance, but they're the exceptions. The collectibles don't take much effort to find, the only ones you'll miss are ones you don't have the growth abilities for (still an annoying thing for me) or that you couldn't access during the main story. In KH3, the worlds get big and with very well hidden treasures and lucky emblems to find, but to make the worlds so big a lot of it is made up of just empty space. The Caribbean imo encapsulates this perfectly, it's an amazing world full of secrets that you won't see on your first visit but it's all between a massive sea with basically nothing in it. In KH1, every world is full of things to explore, and there's little empty space between it all. I bet most of us wouldn't have gotten Curaga if we hadn't looked it up.
5) Story. I love the stories for each game but honestly KH1 had the best pacing. In KH3 you get pretty much 0 story between Olympus and San Fransokyo. In KH2 you get pretty much 0 story for all your Disney world first visits. In KH1 the story keeps up all the way through. Obviously it doesn't come up as often between Wonderland and Atlantica but still in most world's you get some sort of important story development that keeps you invested until you find Riku in Neverland and things start to get real.
Ofc this is all just my opinion as a casual player, I am in no way as invested in detailed combat like most of everyone else here is. Still, I think it's a view that should be that unpopular. Yeah, it's a simpler game with simpler gameplay, story, graphics, etc., but at the same time it's imo the game with the most thought and care put into it, in a day and age before Disney executives thought of it as anything more than a spin-off videogame with no need for intervention. Plus, this might make some KH2&3 fanboys a bit miffed, so fun times for me :)
KH1 is probably my second favorite game in the series so no offense taken to me at least. I do want to offer my take on a couple of your points though.
1) I pretty much agree with this but I think it's worth mentioning that KH2's spells have really specific uses. Fire is a close range attack, while Blizzard is a projectile and Thunder is a large area of effect attack. Magnet and Reflect also have very obvious strategic benefits too. Fire/Blizzard in KH1 doesn't really seem to have found its niche to me. I never really have a reason to have both on my shortcuts. To lesser degree that's true for Stop/Gravity too. KH3 honestly feels like a step even further back than KH1. The difference between spells is fairly minimal in that game and they are all strong.
2) KH2 doesn't really shine difficulty-wise until critical mode. Final Mix additions like Roxas and Data-Axel only stand out because they were added in later. Critical in 2FM is such a revamp of the game that it completely changes the difficulty in a way that the modes in the other games don't. You level slower, deal more damage, have more abilities, have more AP (both starting and from levels) , and of course you have less health. It ends up feeling like a re-balance of the game into something that is legitimately challenging rather than just cranking up the frustration of the game. Leveling slower also helps you not get overleveled which can be a real problem in these games sometimes. Sora becomes a glass cannon since the game punishes failure much harder but rewards learning its fights with higher damage and gives you more tools to use against it.
3) Sanctuary still makes me want to cry like a baby 15 years later it's a crime that is used so little in the series comparatively.
Agreed on just about everything else! KH1 has a lot to love especially in its overall vibe as full game. For me, KH2FM only beats it out for because I enjoy its gameplay so much in spite of its shortcomings.
Very rarely have I ever seen the middle column statements actually said.
I'm honestly a huge fan of DDD's combat. Flowmotion feels so good in that game!
The big problem with DDD is flowmotion is just about the only thing that feels good.
I completely disabled flowmotion in kh3. I don't like it. It's slow.
The kh3 base combos even after patch in my opinion still weren’t satisfying because there wasn’t any form of variety between air and ground combat
Exactly there wasn't a lot of variety while Kh2 had many abilities that changed your combos and used many different buttons rather than just X to change how the combo works
@@_NeonFlame_ I mean, KH2 only had horizontal slash/upper slash and finishing leap that you just pressed square to use, KH3 still has rising spiral and groundbreaker that you use with circle, and personally I enjoy using them way more after the patch, especially in double form where it actually has its own launcher and ground crusher. I do agree though with OP, we didn't like get a new finisher just for the air. Last Charge could've been the new ground finisher (ala Explosion) and we could have gotten something like a mini Ars attack (similar to the stuff Terra uses for example in BBS and as Terra-Xehanort being a boss) for an air finisher.
To be fair, if every keyblade transformation was distinctly different then some keyblades would see virtually no use (as it stands you can use whatever keyblades you want with effectively similar results) take valor form for example, yeah, you’ll abuse it while you can but once you unlock master form or limit form there isn’t really a reason to ever use valor again, at that point you’d be deliberately limiting yourself. I agree that there is very little difference between the keyblade transformations from a functionality viewpoint but there is enough of a difference in how each ‘type’ of transformation ‘feels’ that everyone tends to have their own personal preference, some like the claw type transformations, others like hyper hammer, others like Highwind and stormflag or second form. It could certainly be better, but when the differences between the different transformations become to functionally different, some will naturally get the short end of the stick while others become ‘the best’ kind of like how no one uses hidden dragon.
The spells however... those could have been better 😓
I just want a KH game that's as well designed as kh2 with the added mechanics of kh3
I swore off the KH subreddit forever because of this specific issue. At least when I was on it, it seemed like it was illegal to say that KH2FM was the best game.
It's the opposite. They now think KH2 is the only good game of the whole series.
I have to disagree with the Keyblade Transformation point- most transformations don't feel similar at all aside from the Formechos due to the weapon and magic changes (if there even is a magic change). To say most feel the same is to say that something like Hyper Hammer and Drill Punch feels the same as Agile Claws and Twin Yo-yos. Saying that "oh you press x and you hit stuff" is also how Drive Forms are as well- with the exception of Wisdom Form because those peashooter shots are only good for staggering bosses.
Let's take a look at two Keyblade Transformations that feel vastly different from each other (that I mentioned above)- Hyper Hammer/Drill Punch and Agile Claws/Twin Yo-yos.
Hyper Hammer is a moderately pased, hard hitting transformation with a lower DPS but a higher DPH (Damage per hit) and close-range AOE magic (similar to KH2 Fire), with Drill Punch being a mildly faster second stage transformation that shares the low DPS high DPH and close-range AOE magic of Hyper Hammer. Whereas Agile Claws, while sharing the same magic, is a high-speed, high DPS transformation with various multi-hitting attacks and Flowmotion attack changes, with Twin Yo-yos being a similarly fast-pased second stage transformation with even higher manuverability, multi-shot high range magic (in the same vain as Hunny Blasters/Double Arrowguns) and a couple grapple attacks.
Alternatively, let's look at a transformation that is similar to all others, but also none of them at the same time- Nano Arms.
Nano Arms utilizes attacks from each transformation type- a hammer slam from Hyper Hammer/Boom Hammer, a swinging flagpole from Stormflag, a Yo-yo twirl from Twin Yo-yos, a claw drill (which is the Flowmotion attack for Agile Claws/Blizzard Claws), and a few original attacks as well.
TL;DR, the point "Most/All transformations feel the same" is a stupid point that makes almost no sense when not looking at Formechos due to each form having a specific purpose built around the weapon, magic style, and form style (form style being the types of Strike, Element, Blitz, Guardian, and Special (Special encompassing Second Form, Ultimate Form, Light/Dark Forms, and Double Form)).
Dude. The problem is, pretty much every KH game except for KH1 and 2 sucks really badly. Sorry KH2FM offers rewarding, fun, fast , balls-to-the-walls game-play that involves more than one button and doesn't have ridiculous mini-games to get basic abilities. Also, to quote Leffen, "Kingdom Hearts 3 is an actual 3/10 game..." The designers seem more interested in nonsensical situation commands and cringe-worthy attraction flows than actually making rewarding, fun, fast, balls-to-the-walls game-play. Damn right I want all KH games to be like KH2FM because EVERY other game in the series doesn't even come close to what it accomplished in its game-play.
Great analysis, that could be tied to similar discussions outside of the KH fandom.
I want to add something to it: part of what made the discourse surrounding the gameplay of KH how it is also comes from how they released several "important" chapters on multiple consoles with at times completely different gameplay and combat system. Ultimately I think it was more to its detriment because it made some fans used to the concept of just scrapping most of the previous games' ideas in order to pursue a new system from scratch, understandably making a lot of mistakes or oversights along the way each time because, well, you're wrestling with a different beast every time.
Truthfully, this "KH2FM debate" should end the moment we say "We just want the newer KH titles to take what KH2 FM did good and expand on that", because that's just a better way to ensure that every new KH title will be more polished and refined, but other fans are now so used to the idea of "Yeah no KH2 was good but that was it, it had some good concepts but they should stay there with it, every new KH needs to be completely different" that in their minds is even RIGHT that KH III Sora has bad combos or that some tools made specifically to reference the KH II ones are inferior. The concept that a 20 years old franchise starts anew every time has become so normalized some don't even see the deriving shortcomings anymore.
One just needs to take a look around: Mario for instance is such a diverse franchise, but it makes it perfectly clear when something is a spin-off diversion and when something is the next big main installment that tries to improve upon the original games. So people will rarely respond to criticism towards a Super Mario Bros game by saying "No it's fine because when you look at Paper Mario, it also had a few problems".
Instead we have KH III, then we have the main villain's past showcased in a mobile game wich is completely different, and whatever will happen to Kairi after Re:Mind will come in a rhythm one. Everything is so different yet so forcefully connected that making people understand that KH2 FM shouldn't just exist in the "KH2 FM dimension" but should be a stepping stone for the bigger picture becomes an at times impossible task.
EXACTLY!!! It's funny, really. When I finished the last Disney world on KHIII, I stopped playing altogether. It just didn't feel like the same franchise. For a while, I thought to myself, "Why do I feel so gross playing this game I waited for so long for?" I figured it out 3 months later: 1. The story was no longer personal 2. The gameplay was uncontrollable and weightless. Tbh I only cared about the sea-salt trio, Sora and Riku. There was too much plot points and people I didn't care about in the way. I didn't like where Nomura was heading with the story, so I left. I'm now watching the series from a distance, shaking my head as people still follow along with the bs.
For a long time, KH2 was my favourite game. Now, KH3 is. However, this is AFTER Remind came out with the new attacks, Oathkeeper and Oblivion, Photo Mode, Data fights, etc.
I understand many of the points against KH3 and I even agree with some. Random limits is a bad idea, and pre Remind combos were awful, reaction commands shouldn't have dissapeared. I feel like giving criticism is kind of a taboo nowadays, as people feel "attacked" when criticism is just a way to try to find solutions to problems. In a way KH2 FM fans helped KH3, as the new combos, formchanges and Data battles are totally based on KH2 FM. That probably happened thanks to feedback.
However some idealize KH2, which is a problem. I hate how most of KH2 are just hallways, leveling up forms to gain movement skills is absurd, limits may look cool but are just free damage, Stitch is OP, Sora feels very limited at early game, some bosses are more annoying than fun, gummi ship missions still suck, Atlantica, Mickey is a get out of jail free card and a long etcetera. And, when someone talks about KH2 they usually just talk about combat, when combat isn't everything in KH.
KH3 did many things that a "KH2 FM Sequel" would never do, such as the team Keyblade Graveyard fights which, for me, are a dream come true, and I'm happy that KH3 wasn't just "KH2, but again"
That being said, I haven't seen as many KH3 fanboys as KH2 fanboys but they can be... outrageous. Like BB put in the video "Base Sora combos have to be bad for the formchange combos", like, wow, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Well said i nearly agree with everything
Your "kh3 did what a kh2 sequel wouldn't" point doesn't make any sense. Can you please explain? Because there's no evidence of what a kh2 successor would or wouldn't do
@@CloudXStrife136 Perhaps I didn't explain that point properly. What I mean by "a KH2 sequel" refers to the people that want "KH2 FM again", to want that is to refuse to grow and remain stuck, refuse to let Kingdom Hearts search for other ways to enjoy the series.
If KH3 was KH2 FM but again, certainly the fights in Keyblade Graveyard against multiple bosses at once would've never happened, as KH2 got us used to fighting one at a time (the entire series has one v one fights, but KH2 is the biggest reason why people want one on one fights). A more minor thing, but a KH2 fanboy would leave the gummi ship as it was, perhaps even remove it, so they can focus more on the combat, but KH3 turned it around and made the gummi ships focus on open world exploration, turning it into the most (and only for me) fun gummi ship in the series.
PS: I want to leave one thing clear doing something different doesn't make you better. BBS also did things different than KH2 but I don't like BBS because it sucks at doing those things while I enjoy most things KH3 does.
@@Watch-Yisus
While i personally enjoy 1 on 1 fights because it has more focus on the enemy's personal patterns and such, i think multi bosses can be fun too.
kh2 had boss fights in the collesium where you fight multiple at once. Maybe they arent story battles but theres nothing to prove that this wouldnt be used more in a sequel.
Though, they usually are easier to mess up, since 2 enemies should usually have complementary attacks/styles imo. Having a fight where it feels like 2 but is actually 1 would be cool. Like they would look like theyre seperate, but coding wise are 2 halves of a whole. And theres lots of modded boss fight videos with combinations so its not something completly hated.
As for gummi ships, i personally liked how 2 did it, better than 1 anyway. More engaging overall. 3 was alright, if i had choose one to be in a definitive sequel it'd probably be 3 since it has elements of 2, maybe just it a bit less static.
Honestly at the end of the day, i think it comes down to some people maybe liking kh for the combat more nowadays, compared to the story/disney collab which drew them in when we were younger.
Even if I agree with every single thing you’re saying in this video, the way you represent each side of the Fanbase is so one-sided it makes it hard to watch
I want every kh game to be as fun as kh2fm if not higher but we havent got that since
Actually all I want is for BBS to have better balance and for the animations cancel timing to be actually polished.
Is it just me or is this really dismissive of people who enjoy kh3? I'm a kh2 fan, and its my favorite of the series but man, can't the people who enjoy it at least get their actual opinions to matter at all? I could literally say the same thing and generalize the vocal minority who just hate on everything that isn't from kh2fm and shit on everyone who actually likes parts of kh3. You're rational, I get that, but people enjoyed things you didn't, just dismissing actual opinions or arguments about the game and generalizing them into one dumb argument is kinda stupid to me when I could do the same thing for the ultra kh2 defenders/haters of every other kh game
But how is he dissmisng opinions if he was generally showing two different points of views of fans who like aspects of KH3 more VS the KH2 fans who stick to that game because of their style of play and the reasons why? Like I get that there are KH2 fans who are pretty elitist but there are ones who really couldn't get their opinion out there because of the KH3 hype back then
@@TheAnimatedGamer And it seems like now, I can't have an good outlook on this game because well, it's not like 2fm, or because 2fm did it better this makes the game bad. That final argument goes both ways, especially now. I say he's dismissing opinions because well, instead of actually showing how rational people who like this game explain themselves as to how they liked it, or what not, he groups them up with the people who say you just want 2fm 2, and actually don't give an opinion. It's a very general way of looking at it when anyone could do the same thing on the other side of the argument and pair the 2fm elitists to the rational people who enjoy 2fm's mechanics and just not give them a good argument
@@anthonybello1447 well that's what he kinda did? Yeah the main title and start of the video was Was bringing up their defensive side but these are points that even the minority of KH3 fans talk about as well that are from a gameplay perspective and those reasons that he pointed out on why they enjoy the KH3 mechanics pretty much line up. he wasnt straight up saying you shouldn't play or have fun with the game that way but he was pointing out why KH2 fans do not like that playstyle. I think the last argument about the combos do come off as bias but for the most part he wasnt straight up stepping on people's toes or anything
@@TheAnimatedGamer It just seems like instead of giving both sides a good argument as to why you enjoy or not enjoy a mechanic of the game, he just gives kh2 fans actual context, and arguments while giving kh3 fans generalized arguments and making them look like brainless idiots who can't argue their point or make their own opinion. Even if that isn't his intention, that's what it looks like. All I'm saying is give the other side informed arguments for you to counter, or informed opinions for you to give your own opinion rather than just saying, "Kh3 fans say you just want Kh2fm", generalizing it and not giving the opposing side an actual argument of merit.
@@anthonybello1447 bit isnt that what he did? He talked about why KH3 fans like this X thing better and contextualized the reason for them liking it (preferring situation commands for example) then argued against that opinion on why KH2 fans do not like that mechanic and the reason for doing so
As someone who is not really a huge KH fan (and definitely wouldn’t say I’m part of any KH community) I like KH2FM the most. The largest reason for this is actually not about the combat. I think the way KH2 told the story is much better than KH1 and KH3. Also, KH2 has way more of the types of bosses that I think really shine, as all of the org fights are interesting and rewarding. KH3 doesn’t have a lot of those fights in it without the DLC (which I don’t own). Those are what I think are actually the short comings of KH3.
not sure if i agree on the story part, i like both KH1 and KH2's story for different reasons, both have their advantages but both also have their shortcomings, KH1 has more going on and more consistency where KH2 has more emotion and drama, sometimes very stupid drama, like when a rock falls on Goofy, where the events are really ridiculous but the scene is still treated deathly serious, i'm okay with that but someone else who prefers a more streamlined story like KH1 might see that, go "fuck that i'm out", here's the thing, neither is wrong
i do think KH1 has KH2 beat by a mile in pacing tho, KH2 feels like it constantly has to balance itself tonally and forgets what its doing with the plot sometimes and veers off it, like the revisits to the disney worlds, whereas KH1 only forced you to do 3 revisits that were all short, and had a more natural cause for them
I don't agree on the story part. Most of the Organization members lacked a proper background. KH2's plot is basically "Kill every hooded guy you encounter for whatever reason while searching for Riku.".
@@livix3767: that's oversimplification, i will say i hate how fixated nomura became on org XIII and zeenort as the games go on -legit hoping the next KH whatever it is has zero ties to them- but i think they're one of the better elements of KH2's plot due to how they and Sora interact, it's not super deep but gives you a good reason for why you want to beat the bad guys while not being completely unrelatable
that said i do think the execution could've been much better, outside of the twist after 1K heartless, beast's castle and at the end of the game you don't really experience the effects that this evil group have really had on the world
@@dmas7749 KH2's story is mostly missed potential and bad execution. I don't think missing playing CoM affects much since Namine has no presence in story that I cared to know more. Outside of Roxas' demise, and even that was kinda rushed, drama parts were merely drops in water and mostly shoehorned.
I think the biggest mistake was to not make Roxas the main protag in KH2. Sora would've just been Han Soloed to organization tower and Roxas eventually agrees to go rescue him with his Riku and folks while facing his old camaderies. That would have been far more genuine drama.
@@Yurikon3 i won't argue with most of the first part, it's far from well crafted but kid me was fairly invested in the characters and how their story would unfold, much unlike now me and modern KH
i very much disagree with the second paragraph tho, the game switching to Sora was not a mistake, the biggest mistake is pacing with the world revisits, which KH1 just did with traverse town and much better
i don't dislike your ideas but roxas also merged after his final battle, "You make a good other" still makes me well up a little inside, since it has a lot of emotional build up and i'm biased towards that
As for Transformations, I think it would certainly help the diversity of each Transformation if they just scrapped the broader Forms/categories (Strike Form, Guardian Form, etc.) and just focused on making each Transformation its own separate class, truly distinct from the others.
Forms like Counter Shield, Arrowguns and Mirage Staff already have that going, but the DPS forms (Hyper Hammer, Agile Claws, Highwind) are all too samey. Why don't we make the Hammer more of a tanker (with more i-frames in combos), the Agile Claws more of an Antiform-style combo, and the Highwind more Dragoon-themed evasion (such as a greater Quick Run, and manually-inputed jump attacks. I dunno, just something to make the mall stand out from one another.
Reading the title...
Wait, the misconception haven't cleared up yet?
It has been what, 1 year?
Is it really elitist to want a gaurd button that functions?
You're absolutely right
A gaurd that doesn't function 100% of the time is a problem
But you see
2fm has the same problem but to a lesser extent
In 2fm if you try gaurd an attack that's coming from directly above you the gaurd might actually fail
But for some reason 2fm fans only criticize this in kh3
Zz zZ cause in that case you have reflex magic (or master form air dodge if you are good using it)
Thank you.
@@sdrucciolinofreebootino5248 and in kh3 some forms have barrier gaurd that can work around the problem
You can work around the issue in kh2 and kh3
But that doesn't mean that the issue doesn't exist
See that's what I mean
Even though both kh2 and kh3 have the same problem
You're still only defending kh2 and criticizing kh3 instead
Why are you people saying "gaurd"?
Why are people still comparing Sora’s combos from the base game to 2FM instead of the significant upgraded abilities from Remind.
They hardly exist and the issues from kh3 are very much still present in Remind.
Sluna They are very prevalent in everything after Re:Mind, which is all the combat focused part of the game. You can also do New Game plus and play the whole game with the abilities, it’s very fun.
This might be a good spot to find some ingredients
Hi donald
This is similar to how paper mario fans will blame anyone who wants a good game of "Just wanting TTYD again".
"u just want a kh2fm sequep"
yes i do, the point of a sequel is to improve on the last game, not to exactly copy it, so yes i indeed would like a kh2fm sequel
no but foreal i like kh3 and kh2 and i think if they mix both ideas we could get something amazing
and my hopes are up after remind the combos they added where 👌 spicy
Just asking, will this video be similar to the "Cuz you're a speedruner" 3 years ago?
If you haven't watched it yet, yeah it's pretty much the same thing but he elaborates on stuff more
Yeah more of a enhaced version of that and the kh fandom video
Homestly, I think KH3's problem is enemy AI, unbalanced combat and unproper gravity. I don't really need it to be like KH2FM. But all those things I mentioned are properly programmed into KH2FM so don't be surprised when people prefer that other one. The problem is that KH3 feels like a very lame and fanlike 3D beat em' up. I say this because most combat options are just visual variety.
I want a kh game that has an interesting story that can be told hell even darker take on the series could be interesting. As for gameplay improve upon on what work in other games. Like kh2 combat that gives players agency, different character with their own style of combat with risk & awards when choosing one over sora. Etc
one of the fundamental issues is that kh has a very split audience that wants different things, which is directly caused by the franchise being split both genre-wise and in terms of the hardware it was available on. when dmc3 fans compare newer dmc games to 3, no one really gets mad cause it's established that dmc is a pure action franchise, and dmc3 is widely accepted to be the best at that. with kh, however, it's always been a hybrid action-rpg series, with tons of different styles of gameplay stretched across different systems, and thus different audiences. to us, kh2 is by far the best (and should be built upon by future games) because it has the best pure action gameplay and thats what we love about kh. but other people, who maybe grew up playing birth by sleep, want mechanically simple combat that rewards the time you spent leveling up your character rather than your intrinsic skill and reflexes, and thus is more "rpg" than "action". basically all "kh2 vs other" arguments boil down to this disagreement on what kh as a franchise should be
Personally, keyblade transformations as a concept is Squeenix's most effective compromise with balancing KH's increase in acrobatics with colorful disney aesthetic(with attraction flow obviously being the lease effective version). I'm not totally sold on it, but KH3 and the mobile games are clearly showing that they don't want to stick to just the base keyblade and need new physical objects to swing around.
KH2FM had barely any of that, and was the closest to having Sora age into a breakdancer rather than an amusement park. We don't.....HAVE anyone like that in rpgs. Tidus was made in a time when the hardware just wasn't there, and Noctis lives in a setting too gritty and non-elemental for some of the wackier combos. To me, it represents a niche that nobody has really capitalized on, an identity that's not Disney nor FF, and we're trading it away for.....more disney.
That's why I'm kinda hopeful when they say that the "Dark Seeker Saga" is over. We might be moving away from forcing in disney stuff over and over.
Well, for the Disney part, most of the Disney content is Nomura's choice, Disney/Pixar just oversee what Nomura has in mind and give him the thumbs-up.
I typed all this up assuming the Ornstein and Smough comment was left in the video but it wasn't and I'm going to post this wall anyway.
The Ornstein and Smough comment is so fucked because while O+S is a great example of a multi-enemy fight that works, Dark Souls 1 has multi-enemy fights that fucking SUCK because they're not well designed. Being a multi-enemy fight isn't a free ticket to "it just works", if anything it's even harder to get working.
O+S is not a clusterfuck. It's certainly frantic but the bulk of the difficulty comes from awareness, especially when you know the Achilles' Heel of the fight. Capra Demon, in the very same game, is probably the worst actual boss fight in the game because it IS a total clusterfuck. The fight is literally a coin toss on whether or not the dogs allow you to get to the stairs or not and instantly becomes the easiest boss if you make it. Iron Golem? Fucking horrible if you don't kill the bomb giant. Four Kings? Clusterfuck. Pinwheel? Would be a clusterfuck if he had an actual health bar.
Saying that the Triple Nort fight is fine just because "other game does multi-enemy fights just get gud" is so unfathomably narrow-minded it's insulting and shows an unwillingness or inability to properly analyze the mechanics and design of a boss fight.
I think that KH3 is the most fun to play in the entire series, but it surely has some things to learn from KH2FM
It's no different with paper mario honestly. You say you like the first two games and wished the future games would build off that but you typically get either "so you paper mario TTYD all over again huh?" or now (which has become way more popular for some reason) "Those games were never good to begin with" which just makes me drop the conversation altogether because I already know I won't make any head way in it.
I bet you are really happy about the new remake
The keyblade transformations are amazing since keyblades do different things once you transform, but I wish you could transform when you want to instead of having to unlock it through whacking things.
What I did when playing is transform a keyblade then switch to another. Going back to that one later, it will still be transformed. It was good to have one that way if a boss started doing something dangerous
Sadly, the game was garbage and that was literally the only neat thing I personally experienced with the game
I personally want a balance between kh2fm and kh3rm
I've only played KH3 and not KH2FM. But after playing on critical mode I can agree with the sentiment that the melee-based transformations for the most part are the same. Aside from maybe Hero's Origin (the keyblade you get from beating Olympus) there isn't really a reason to use any other STR keyblade besides the one with the highest STR stat. Not to mention there's plenty of clones of the same form changes like Shooting Star/Honey Spout & Kingdom Key/Dawn Til Dusk/Midnight Blue/Starlight/Phantom Green (Jesus so many second form clones 😰)
6:28 "its not actually about whether a person likes or dislikes situation commands". Honestly sums up about every conversation about kh3. Any criticism of kh3 rarely gets met with a critically thought out point of view. Most often than not you'll get the same response of "i liked so and so". It just shows that a lot of people take criticism as personal attacks for some odd reason. I feel that 2FM fans usually can admit and respect the flaws that people point out in 2fm and still appreciate some of the things that kh3 brought to the table. I can not say the same for the other way around. Most criticisms of kh3 are responded to with personal feelings, getting called a "hater", or just out right fabricated criticisms of kh2 such as drive forms being broken because the drive gauge fills up too fast (like what?). Funny how only some fans have the maturity to admit both the positive and negatives of a game.
I think you have really good points, however I do want to point out from my perspective that movability and 3D fighting seems to be a major focus with KH3 focusing on the ability to have intense air movement as well as ground movement, combos and magic even reflects this as Sora is never truly 'grounded' like he was in KH2 which focused on heavy movement and deliberate attacking relying on stunlocking rather than fast but strong combos. You even yourself have relied on stun locking into combos to basically drain a enemy of health, the way I imagined it as that Master Form Drive reflects a lot of what Sora feels like in KH3 for me, crowd control, air movement and with it vulnerability since all of Master Form's combinations are air combos and if attacked could be interrupted.
Keyblade transformations focus on speed and attacking as many enemies as possible, each form becoming faster and faster rather than heavier which I can see why this is a bit of a problem with players. Heavier means more committed and feels satisfying when you finish a large combo, while lighter floaty combat feels less so because there is no extreme finish to the combo no backpeddling from the enemy that is visible as enemies go flying back from the finish.
For myself it makes combat feel extremely chaotic where KH2 felt very straight forward and creating reflexive strategies rewarded us because each enemy could be approached in a direct manner. Sora in KH3 feels especially in critical mode feels like a whirling glass cannon able to dish out tons of damage but can be smacked back easily.
but I dont know, I enjoy it and do have many things I agree with when it came to what you had said which would only improve the game.
I remember when Remind came out, people were making fun of how it costed 30€ on launch. Dude, I wish I had paid 60€ for Remind and 30€ for base KH3. Just Kairi at the end of Remind controls better than Sora in the whole of vanilla KH3
to make things even funnier people who usually complain about price didnt get past half of the limit cut.
i was like "ofc it will look expensive as hell if u only played like 1/3 of what u bought"
@@anxjos Not only that, but complaining about paying $30 for a DLC that offers more content (I don't consider 2FM's data org really that good especially now that 3's is out, for reasons I'll elaborate on if you want/reply to this, nor do I consider Absent Silhouettes their own bosses tbh), instead of having to wait several years for a brand new re-release in your country (PS2 was not region-free if I recall, so not just anyone could just play original KH2 final mix), as part of a remastered bundle for $50 or $60 where you have to replay the whole game just to experience everything new is just stupid. ReMind is a steal for being $30, regardless if someone wants to use the "should've been in the game at launch" argument, or the "recycled content" argument.
So you’re thinking that KH2 fans are super eloquent and present only well-thought arguments, while KH3 fans can only respond with name calling and shitty grammar? Yeah, tough to see how people might find that perception a little bit elitist.
Not all KH3 fans, but the ones who believe this argument yeah.
@@Bl00dyBizkitzThat's called Strawmanning
One thing I really think would have genuinely helped would have been more variation in Magic when transformations happen. Yes there is SOME, like the claws giving you an AoE burst and the blasters/magic launcher changing the shots, but they all more or less do the same thing as each other spell (I.E. fire is going to do the same thing thunder would do and such)
I think that, especially with spells like Aero, there was so much missed opportunity. Imagine a more melee focused transformation that made it so that, say, when you case Aero, it does a burst around you, but that burst launches them straight into the air, and it "cancels" the combo to immediately put you into a flow motion jump, as Aero does, for you to follow up, or maybe you could air step to follow up without flow motion or roll cancel it to not get launched upwards with them and follow up with something else from the ground.
KH3 is so sad to be because it TRIES to have the fundementals KH2 does but just bogs them all down to their simplest possible form.
At 13:20, did the patch that he mentioned come out before or after the Xbox version? I played the Xbox version at launch and didn't notice anything weird about the combos, but I am not generally an action game guy so I probably wouldn't notice either way.
OK look. I'm perfectly cool with KH2 fans raising higher standards for the quality of KH games. There's nothing wrong in asking for polished products when it was proved possible by previous installments.
What I do have a problem with is the lack of experimentation with new concepts and judging them on surface level, resulting the possible ignorance of really great game mechanics that the average player wouldn't notice immidiately. At launch, people saw KH2 as a brainless button mashy game with useless summons, limits that are just nukes, wierd spells variations and drive forms that just make the game even more button-mashy. It took years for the community to realize that KH2 is not straight button-mashing.
The point I'm raising here is that KH3's mechanics were not tested and experimented enough by players to see how interesting they can be when using them correctly. 1. While some formchanges act the same in how they play, when you consider the formchanges that act differently you'll find a lot of variety rather than just saying "they all do the same except the shield". On top of that, having 3 keyblade slots means that there's more to formchanges than just damage dealers, as you can make 1 formchanges that creates SC arrows very quickly to help build another 2 quicker and set-up strategies (Magical staff clones/shield->wrath flurry). Formchanges are a lot more creative and have more to them strategy-wise than the praise they are given by players.
2. It's true that grand magic is randomal based on how much you used them to build SC arrows. But, like, WHO CARES? Considering that they are just stronger versions of spells, they are nothing more than extra damage dealers so I plan strategies with the aknowledgement that I MIGHT get extra stuff, but can handle just as good without it. Think of grand magic as a critical hit in Pokémon games, where you might deal extra damage based on the speed stat and the attack's property, but it's also based on luck (you have ways to raise your chances to get it, but most of the time it involves luck). The only time where grand magic is involved strategy-wise is in the ORG13 speedrun with AoE Firaga spam, where you are guranteed for a Firaza after few Firagas. Blocking formchanges behind RNG IS a problem on beginner to proud since they are actual combat modifiers (not passive extra damage dealers like grand magic), but it doesn't matter on critical mode when Critical Converter is activated, since than you guranteed a formchange. I'll agree that the timer to use SCs before they disappear is kinda dumb, but as for the RNG being a terrible design choice for grand magic... I just disagree with that.
I'm sure that in time people will see the greatness of KH3's combat more to the point when KH4 will try new things it will be called bad and fans will praise KH3 to no end about what it did right and KH4 didn't, only to later realize KH4 did his new stuff really well too. Than KH5 will come out and stuff will happen the same in a continueous cycle.
The problem with Formchanges is that there fundamentally similar.
The main purpose of formchanges are that they change your default combos. Which doesn't really add variety other than switching to another keyblade for an attack.
Which is a very surface level interpretation of combo's.
Combos at their greatest are when you combine a series of different attacks together back to back. In fighting games You can see 6+ different inputs to make a combo. Keyword being inputs.
In KH3 all your doing is pressing the dpad for maybe 1-2 attacks and that's kind it. And it doesnt even give you a real advantage or reward other than looking cool.
KH2 had a similar issue but it At least gave the player more control over drive forms and limits.
But the game that gave the best combo potential was BBS since every command that doesn't follow up with a "Rave attack" (Like sonic blade) effectively allowed you to continue with another attack or command. And BBS had a much more reliable way to dictate which styles you went into without making you ignore aspects of the game. So if you want fire you fill your command deck with mostly fire attacks. Want dark impulse? use a magnet or Gravity spell.
Want Cyclone? Use Aeroga or windstrike.
Want rythem mixer? Use mine attacks.
Want rockbreaker? Use rock attacks like Meteor or Geo Impact.
All of this makes KH3 combos look disappointing compared to what we got previously.
@@trisryan4161 If you think so than you clearly haven't experimented enough with the game's mechanics. KH3 gives you a lot of control over which formchange you want. You equip 3 keyblades and cycle between tgem with the D-pad. Whichever keyblade you used at the moment the situation command (SC) guage was filled is the one who gets the formchange. There are cool ways to get the formchanges faster like using Wrath Flurry to build 3 arrows and finishing the job with another keyblade to get it's formchange quickly. Aero->Buzzsaw to a great SC builder as well. There are plenty of cool combinations so don't say you lack control over formchanges.
Formchanges are more than just "mash X to win". They all have a small perk to make them more complex than that. Strength forms can reach their finishers quickly, similar to Valor form. The arrowguns have split spells and the FPS mode with free aiming. The Magic Launcher have bazooka projectiles and bazooka spells. Magical Staff can create the clones and shoot the enemy from up to 5 directions at once (super useful against Lump of Horror). The claws have the AoE spells, making them useful for data ORG fights. Sure, Second Form, Light+Dark+Double Form and Ultimate Form are just damage dealers, but the others still have their uses beyond mashing X. And besides, most players don't go super in-depth with drive forms and mash X anyway so mashing X with formchanges isn't a big downfall for most players (casuals, I know, but still).
@@roiitzkovich4545 It's all style but no substance.
This can be said for just about every formchange in KH3.
The biggest difference between the regular keyblade and with transformations like the Lance or Hammer are a bit more damage with the latter and cooler attacks.
It looks like I'm doing a lot, but it's just X.
And why bother witth magic if the transformations already deal a lot of damage? Why set up Mirages or Aim with the Arrowguns when I could just press X.
Combos and attacks mean nothing without purpose.
And the differences on appearance and effects between transformations mean nothing when I'm still just pressing X just as I'd normally do.
Which is exactly what they are. There just commandstyles smashed together with drive forms. But it's mostly just command styles essentially.
All command styles are supposed to be is a modification to your basic attacks. And it's not that different from how formchanges are in KH3
@@trisryan4161 thats on the casual side of the argument, as most only look at the surface or for broken features to abuse. such as how certain formechanges can do the final form firaga trick from kh2fm. with endless magic and mp thrift, makes it more abusable.
others experiment on more extreme levels. such as trueblade style showed, not only formchanges potential but other usages. like air step, a combo reset trick, etc. others made stylish combos that even involves shotlock.
the point is kh2fm and kh3 reminds have their flaws. many shouldn't overlook them when a game doesn't have/or the same said feature in the sequel. I still see ppl want reflect from kh2fm back to kh3, overlooking the very ease to use, 360 coverage, and massive damage reflect gives. which was nerfed to being a guard feature in later releases in the series.
another point is that it took time for kh2fm combat to be exploited, as when it was first released. the base counterattack (not reflect) was somehow treated as the main damage dealer for sora. with drive forms acting as emergency cures.
Haha, Keyblade go “shwing chop”
its funny how since launch ive been told that KH2FM and 3 just cannot be compared because theyre not similiar in the slightest, yet its very obvious that KH3 is built (albeit poorly) upon the foundations of KH2FM, KH2FM isnt a perfect game, it has its flaws, it just so happens that KH2FM is a fun game with a very strong base/foundation, but at times it just felt like they took these super strong foundations, and instead of building a beautiful mansion on top of them, they built a mud hut instead, then with remind DLC they gave the mud hut a beautiful oak door.
Tbh I was hoping for kh3 to just be basically 2fm but better. After the free patches/dlc I think it has raised the game up from what it was at base release but it's still a bit below 2fm imho. (I do not yet have the Re:Mind dlc so I can't speak on that part yet)
Edit: When I mean "2fm but better" I don't mean it has to be 1 for 1 2fm. Just like some or most of the fundamentals but improved upon and new things added.
Most KH fans are casual fanboys and will see nothing wrong with the game; the same fans that will see sora fart and think nomura had some deep intricate reasoning behind all of it. and don't get me wrong, I love Kingdom Hearts, it was one of my favorite games. But the combat post 2FM has all been experimental, which is fine, but there's no reason they shouldn't take risks and try new things out, but the way they went about it was stupid, they gutted base combat in favor of command decks. There's no reason you can't do both. 2FM and BBS are on the same engine, the team at the time didn't even take the time to learn what proper balancing is; not even talking about like staggering and RV, but the fact that you can get once more and second chance literally in the beginning of the game which undermines all difficultly, even in a critical mode play through. 3D didn't even remedy this, it was better than BBS in some ways, but still had bad balancing issues and imo, the solution to abilities was worse, since you had to have the same pet to keep your abilities. They could have just thought of a way better solution to all this instead of designing pokemon, which aren't even used anymore besides one summon in 3. At least in Re:mind they really listened and I'm happy and they keep that quality up, but base 3 combat was still really bad, especially with random powerups like attraction flow, also I think drive forms still function better than situation command forms. also bring back RCs!!
oh also, shotlocks either need to removed or reworked. there's no point to them except free damage. Either make it so that as you damage, it builds up the gauge and it rewards you for keeping up hits, maybe have it go down if you're not aggresive or maybe even go down if you get hit (although might be a bit hardcore for KH), but make it interactive, the fact you can just stock refocusers and just spam shotlocks is fucking dumb. it's just there, 0 interaction with the kit at all.