7/10, better than the 1st. At least people are now willing to admit that Arthur Fleck was and always has been Joker only by name, it was just a way to fund a movie. Im glad he got more creative with this one and I think he made this for him and Joaquin and not the fans which is a good thing.
I dont see it as a connection to heath ledgers joker, maybe a bit of a nod. but to me, it was saying "The joke carries on" and the joker will always find a way through someone.
@@devl29 100% agree. I don’t think they are trying to say “yea that’s heaths joker” because firstly the timelines don’t match up, and secondly it would be incredibly tone deaf and I don’t think Todd Philips is stupid enough to do it. What it does do is take elements from TDK for example the scars, or the idea that the joker is less of a person with a defined origins and just simply a chaos bringer.
It also ties into the line "There is no Joker" meaning the joker is more of a character that people take on, and will live on despite arthur fleck dying
@@chancecrimin 100% I think it’s rather bold of people to assume it’s immediately trying to link itself with ledgers joker especially when jack Nicholson also had scars and in fact I’d be willing to bet he was more in thought than ledgers when the final scene was in mind. People say he looks like ledgers joker, I thought he looked like jacks
This movie is sort of a fascinating social experiment. There's the people who saw the first movie and said to themselves "This is very clearly not the Joker for a large variety of reasons." And then there's people who saw this movie were mad and OUTRAGED by the ending, so clearly they thought he was.
im one of those people that thought he made for a good joker, and was happy to learn there was gonna be a sequel, and now disappointed that it was terrible and a waste
@@mrmeaty2140 The fact that he's about 30 years Bruce's senior and not in any way shape or form a criminal mastermind foil for a genius crime fighting detective never bothered you at all? For me this entire franchise was clearly just an excuse to do a big budget Scorsese tribute act and play around.
I think that the opening and end of the movie are the "Folie A Deux" that the film was named. I think Lee was a red herring, that the true "Shared madness" was between Arthur and the the Joker that takes his place. I think that irony makes the movie itself a bit of a joke. WE are being told a story (like many joke structures) and the punchline is that the character wearing clown makeup wasn't THE clown at all, just the inspiration.
@@ternative More or less. I think Arthur was like a match, small and pretty insignificant. But then it spread and spread until it hit a powder keg (The visitor that kills him). The guys that take advantage of the chaos he causes are bad, sure. But the visitor not only commits murder, but mutilates his own face. How many people would do that?
I loved this movie. It's ironic that this movie's main message has been completely proven true by how many people disliked it. Many people wanted to see the Joker villain from the Batman movies, but instead they got poor Arthur Fleck. But isn't that exactly what Arthur was complaining about his whole life? That no one ever cared about him, who he really is. But the moment he became the Joker, then they paid attention to his alter ego. But the real Arthur is killed instead, the same way the critics killed this movie. Too bad. This movie is genius.
My complaint isn't that there's too much Arthur and not enough Joker. I just didn't enjoy the musical element. I knew it was going to be like that going in, but I think it would've been better without it.
the real arthur was the joker....did you not understand the first movie??? Nice try but that movie was so damn bad, they legit ruined any storyline with joker in that franchise XD no more of this joker or any for awhile after these horrible renditions of him. They ruined this, and the actors reputations by making this nonsense, no one likes something that cant find its own definition...
I think the issue is that we measure it against the Joker (the person) as an origin story. I think it’s more of an origin story on the idea of the Joker
The guards let Harley in to see Arthur because she's from a very wealthy family and just paid them. No, it's not explicitly stated, but in this case it's more likely than it being imagined.
As I recall, Arthur was in solitary confinement at the time. I also recall that the guards where absolutely pissed at Arthur. When you consider how abusive the guards were ALL THE TIME, do you really think they'd let Lee in to see Arthur just because she's got a rich daddy?
See my theory is that the person that killed Arthur is actually Jack Napier. And it goes down to the line that Joker doesn't just have one if any origin story.
@@TheDamagedKoda You kidding me ? everyone knows that by getting the glasgow smile. that the dude did to himself fot no reason, it means he is Heath's Joker
Harley didn’t exist, rewatch the movie. Once you see the Pepe Le Pew cartoon the first time everything after that is in his head until we see the cartoon again, on the same TV, in the same room at the same time of day
In psychology, the shadow is the part of ourselves that we see as unacceptable and the ego keeps the shadow hidden. So the shadow taking over in the cartoon shows the worst part of himself, the part that he is ashamed of, defeating his ego.
To be fair, JOKER was never a super hero film, even though it had super hero named characters. That’s what made it unique. Just like Road To Perdition or A History Of Violence, it was more of a graphic novel adaptation. It’s not a super hero film, it’s not a musical, it’s not a horror, or a courtroom drama. It’s a very bespoke unique thing. It’s the conclusion to the original film that was meant to be a stand alone thing.
CRAZY THEORY : Arthur Fleck inspires the creation of all movie versions of Joker : - Jack Nicholson's version who killed the Waynes, as seen in the first movie - Heath Ledger's version who has scars - Barry Keoghan's version who is born with a genetic congenital disease, maybe son of two mentally unstable persons. Harley may or may not have a son (Ofcourse these characters won't directly turn into them, but like hint at alternate versions of them)
And the fact that Bruce was still young at this time proves it even more, as the fact that the real joker would be near his age when he becomes the batman.
With this extra knowledge, not having him take back power in the end of the movie was an extra horrible choice. He should’ve gone to Harley with what happened, then Harley should’ve armed him, and they should’ve returned to the prison to rid the city of those guards.
I loved it as well. The musical parts were a little drawn out towards the end, but overall I really enjoyed it. I’m glad I didn’t look up reviews before watching.
@@noctambule5726because why would a guard allow arthur to hear a joke when he’s got a visitor? Also completely leaving him alone in a hallway with a patient who is conveniently following him
I work at our city's local movie theater and over the course of the entire day we only had between 2 to 12 people per showtime. Two people walked out halfway through and those who stuck it out were engaged in conflicting conversation on the way-out, expressing frustration and confusion, as well as a strong disapproval of the ending. 5 years ago in 2019 when the first Joker released we had an average of 30-50 people per showing for a month strait. In a year of sequels at the box office it seems that this one didn't hit it's note.
The more I think about it, the more I like the twist ending. In reality someone as mentally ill as Joker would have the mindset of “ he’s not the “real” Joker, I am!!” Leading to a type of “king of the hill” style moniker passed on with each Joker killed. It works quite well with the fact the Jokers never had a true identity.
This was an amazing movie. Idc what people say or think. It was so good. It follows the concept that the Joker name is a mantle handed down. This wasn't the joker we know, not yet.
I reckon they were scared to seem like they were encouraging shootings/incels so took a HARD pivot. Seems like they just got Gaga, googled any song lyrics that have the word clown and made the rest up...
@@EatSleepEmpire How come all of your vast life experience didn't teach you what subjectivity means? Someone dislikes a movie that you like and that makes you think you know something about, not just them, but everyone that shares that opinion? That's not becoming of a sophisticado such as yourself.
It must be understood that the introduction of got it wrong. There is no battle between Arthur and Joker personalities. Joker is a personality with confidence which Arthur gains through a gun, fan support, or rage. He is not battling with himself.
I think you're probably correct, but have you considered the fact that the court case rests on Arthur proving his insanity, against the state, who have been medicating him for thirty years, due to his insanity, now trying to prove he is not insane. Maybe Dent is right, and "his mental illness is a performance", but who wrote the script?
THANK YOU. I interpreted his "there is no joker scene" as a way to tell that the joker wasn't responsible for his crimes/actions, but he's just one person. Arthur is joker just like joker is arthur. Joker is someone arthur has developed into, therefore, he's the only one responsible for his crimes. he's only one person.
This is the first time we really get a glimpse into how insane the joker really is. The whole story is all in his head. I see why its being panned now but This film will be highly reguarded in the future.
Agreed. This film was brilliant in many ways. The direction was really good and the writing was as well. Of course people will always have negative things to say when the film evokes a strong emotion out of you. I think him dying at the end was the icing on the cake to end this title and close the chapter on his character. He pretty much had no way out. If he didn’t get killed he’d just die in the chair. The film was grounded to reality so nobody was gonna save the day and he wasn’t gonna get lucky again.
@@iancraigmthat’s what I remember 😂 I didn’t watch the first one in theaters because I remember a lot of people didn’t like it and I don’t care to go to the movies either way.. I don’t know if it was because of Joaquin Phoenix or what not… but then I saw it years later at home and I loved the movie… didn’t understand why people didn’t like it.. then I watched Joaquin on UA-cam getting praised for his work in the movie 🤦🏻♂️😂 I was thinking.. “I thought people said this was a bad movie?🙄” 😂
In no way does the dude cutting his face try to be Heath ledger. Him and Bruce are the same age basically. Bruce is like 12 in this movie. Makes no sense.
@@HankingMySchraderJack is barely supposed to be a few years older a teen.even though he looks old. The dude in this movie looks 30. That’s 20 years at least. And it’s stupid to even think they’re trying to link these two movies. It makes the Nolan movies look bad.
@@deatherbradley I highly doubt they are going that route but it’s not impossible. But Keaton is also 14 years younger than Nicholson so it’s not impossible
I don't know why people think it's such a bad film, I went to see it with my partner last night, and yeah there were maybe 2 or 3 too many musical numbers, but aside from that it was really good
I took the ending as just a smart way of showing that Arthur Fleck was never the Joker we associate with Nicholson/Hamill/Ledger. Fleck's Joker was the inspiration for the future Joker, who comes later. Fleck's Joker repeatedly inspires the public to dress identical and cause anarchy in Joker's name, makes sense if eventually it inspires a complete sociopath to do so. Bruce Wayne is still a child at this point of the timeline, it actually makes no sense t to me for Arthur Fleck to be the same Joker that is portrayed by the other actors.
Yall are ignoring the fact that there is another joker currently on screen with the same facial scarring. I don’t think it’s supposed to be heath I think it’s just supposed to be symbolic of a passing of the torch moment and they chose to have him cut his mouth open so that the symbolism wouldn’t be lost because it would be easy to say that this person killed him for whatever reason and was just any random crazy but tying it deeper to jokers mythology especially seeing how many people he’s inspired in this movie already I think it’s a really fitting ending actually.
Not at all. They made a reference to Heath to make the mindless watchers who don’t understand anything flip out because it’s a reference to another great joker. They should have just kept this Joker with one movie, and if they wanted to make a sequel don’t make it like this. Oh wait but apparently that wasn’t even the joker, the real joker of this sequel was just some background character who happened to also be unhinged.
@@youknowit8713he was too old to be our joker so they had to make him an inspiration instead come on now it wasn't tht difficult to grasp what they were trying to do
I get people not liking the ending but to see people call the whole movie “ a shitty ass movie” is a joke it was good at what it was trying to do makes you question what’s actually happening and I think it did that element better then the first movie
The musicals distract you from the fact that this was a weak plot, there was no suspense, no chills, we basically knew what was going to happen and that Arthur was going to lose in the end either way.
@@Power_trip397 you telling me you were expecting him to die and the courtroom to blow up? Also Harley Quinn leaving him? I think those were pretty good plot twists
@@Vee_breeze2767 I expected him to escape the trial when he was going to defend himself and build that mountain with Harley, I mean the joker is a smart, manipulative fictional character after all, but Arthur couldn’t handle the pressure of being portrayed as the joker anymore that was just the let down point.
I think the only reason they used the same song so many times is because it filled time. This movie could have been 1hr 30mins if they didn't keep reusing songs for seemingly pointless reasons
25:48 i don’t think so at all, the reason why he was broken and helpless at that point on why he said the joker is a fantasy is because he got sexually assaulted!! after that moment, you see how small he gets and how afraid he is. that broke him.
I'm so glad I'm seeing more and more ppl understanding what they were doing instead of the lot saying what they should've done😂😂😂 this movie was great....minus the singing
So, we can all agree that this film is one major troll, right? Just like The Matrix Resurrections, this film seems to be dripping with contempt for its own existence. Its inaccessibility has to be deliberate.
There is a simple explanation why this isn't linked to Heath! This movie is held in 80s and not in early 00s. Harvey Dent existing in this movie is why the joker is a character and not an inspiration.
If you like Good film , you’re gonna enjoy it. If you’re looking for a good DC joker movie that successfully executes what part 1 did, you’re gonna feel robbed. It’s not THAT bad
@@SuperSaiyanBrokuThe point was how society idealizes violence and idolizes the mental health victims who perpetrate it. At the end of the day though, society is apathetic towards people like Arthur and will discard them if they don't live up to the fantasy they created
It makes you feel stupid for liking the first one. It’s terrible and ashamed of existing. Literally robs Arthur’s character of his joker identity and gave it to some random inmate we don’t know so that he can go fight Batman in the future (not that we’re gonna see it) , making Arthur’s character nothing more than just the inspiration for the character we actually care about. Arthur could’ve been a good joker with his origin taking inspiration from the killing jokes flashbacks, but this movie wanted his reputation tarnished
@@jinadumehmet6 Yea , it certainly felt like that was the message. Almost as if Todd Phillips was forced to create a movie deliberately dismantling what the previous film did. Very reluctant they decided this was a good direction to go. Genuine disappointment.
Idk there's alot of versions of the Joker that has the scars. I never thought Todd Phillips was referencing the Ledger Joker but I can see the connection.
9:30 Well, when the criminals keep escaping, having them be far way from the people of Gotham is a smart design choice and this is the smartest version of arkham I've seen
The problem was with expectations. It was never a movie about batman or the lore of batman; it was just about a character which is taking place in elseworld. He wasnt the real joker from the beginning. He was just inspiration for the next one
I really liked the joker 2, I kinda like the idea of the joker is just a concept until you actually do it. I also think it’s interesting the person who killed Batman’s parents wasn’t “the main joker”, rather the idea of joker. So Batman has more of a vandeda against the idea, who fights all versions of joker. Aka the multiple different personalities through Batman films. And for the ending it’s just as the movie says, the idea of joker is being moved on to a different and younger soul which personally I like. I also think puddle isint forced to be the groomsman in this regard rather a positive image of puddle in Arthur’s mind during his fantasy. Even though puddle clearly disgusted with Arthur
I definitely don’t think it’s as bad as people are making it out to be, but I do understand and agree with the criticisms you presented in this video. It was definitely odd for them to continue using the same small list of songs over and over again
It seems like the first 90% of Joker 2 was exactly the movie I wanted it to be . . . up until he said there was no Joker and Harley walks out. At that point I realized it was just the movie Todd Phillips wanted it to be. Too bad they weren’t the same movie.
When you think about it. Joker has a variety of back/origins story. So, with this being a story about joker. His origins are multiple, i guess, archetypes. I think the team is trying to pay it forward. With the Joker being such an unpredictable enigma. If that man's sense.
I think your right, I think it was really good, but it's not a thriller/psyco-drama, it's a court-drama/musical. For what it is, I think it's good, but people wanted it to be like the first movie.
I think the song that they were singing in the B sector class was “Daddy Sang Bass” by Johnny Cash.. a nod to Joaquin’s role as the star in Walk The Line.
Surprised you didn't mention the parallel between the final shot of the film, and the title-card shot from the first film. They're practically the same, even down to him grabbing at the left side of his abdomen.
I give it a 5/5. You guys are nuts these guys were genius because it was talking about the Spirit of The Joker. In the movie Arthur never was THE JOKER.
I enjoyed it I thought the first one introduced the idea of the joker and this one introduced the psychopath joker at the end and Harley Quinn which was really amazing in my opinion 😎
I'm convinced Todd Phillips intentionally made this movie's story and writing so bad to ensure the studio would never ask for a third movie. Shit, Gotham did the legacy insanity for the Joker character in a vastly superior way.
The thing about the first movie is that your constantly wondering what's in his head and what's not. However, the second film makes it so obvious that there's no questioning and it really kills the illusion
i feel like the movie can work if initially it was all in his imagination, but by the end of the movie, it happens for real. he kills everyone in the room for real in a musical manner.
Another thing i will say about this film having thought about it is tht the ppl wanted someone tht represented their mental state and looked to 'the joker' for tht but he(fleck) didn't want tht he just wanted ppl to laugh at his jokes and live a life loved by someone but this is gotham buddy take tht shit to metropolis. So the true Joker will come and take up tht role and probably gain the same followers and maybe more
How would you rate Joker Folie à Deux out of 10?
7/10, better than the 1st. At least people are now willing to admit that Arthur Fleck was and always has been Joker only by name, it was just a way to fund a movie.
Im glad he got more creative with this one and I think he made this for him and Joaquin and not the fans which is a good thing.
4
So the Joker that we know is a copy cat of Arthur Fleck in this universe?
.05/10 you can tell left wingers made this script.
8
Gary’s testimony absolutely broke my heart.
The only part of the movie that actually made me 'feel' something
The best scene in the film.
For sure. If the rest of the movie had been held to the standard of that scene, this would have been an excellent sequel.
@@Dharkhaze17then ur a sociopath cuz I felt a lot in the movie
@@pvp214that makes you the weird one actually bucko
I dont see it as a connection to heath ledgers joker, maybe a bit of a nod. but to me, it was saying "The joke carries on" and the joker will always find a way through someone.
Exactly. In my opinion, they just used the Heath Joker because it was easiest to quote. And he also fit best to the tone of the scene.
I agree. Sure the scarred joker is mostly associated with the dark knight but any joker could have that element
@@devl29 100% agree. I don’t think they are trying to say “yea that’s heaths joker” because firstly the timelines don’t match up, and secondly it would be incredibly tone deaf and I don’t think Todd Philips is stupid enough to do it. What it does do is take elements from TDK for example the scars, or the idea that the joker is less of a person with a defined origins and just simply a chaos bringer.
It also ties into the line "There is no Joker" meaning the joker is more of a character that people take on, and will live on despite arthur fleck dying
@@chancecrimin 100% I think it’s rather bold of people to assume it’s immediately trying to link itself with ledgers joker especially when jack Nicholson also had scars and in fact I’d be willing to bet he was more in thought than ledgers when the final scene was in mind. People say he looks like ledgers joker, I thought he looked like jacks
This movie is like sequels in the 80's that only exist because the first movie unexpectedly did big business.
Cause that's what this is mate 😂😂
this movie has so much more heart than any other movie in that category
Why you sneak dissing Halloween 2
THAT'S IT!!
Thank you, I KNEW it was something.
All I could think of was an Elseworlds story that just work for me.
And it went straight to VHS
Poor Harvey Dent can't escape the flames.
@@joechill6327 omg
I mean he’s literally two face that’s like saying in every film Bruce Wayne can’t escape the bats 😂
Harvey looked like a 12 year old in this movie bahahahah
the moment was so cheap.
@joechill6327 Dent got some minor dents on his face in the future no amount of buffing is gonna fix whats to come🤣🤣
This movie is sort of a fascinating social experiment. There's the people who saw the first movie and said to themselves "This is very clearly not the Joker for a large variety of reasons." And then there's people who saw this movie were mad and OUTRAGED by the ending, so clearly they thought he was.
im one of those people that thought he made for a good joker, and was happy to learn there was gonna be a sequel, and now disappointed that it was terrible and a waste
@@mrmeaty2140 The fact that he's about 30 years Bruce's senior and not in any way shape or form a criminal mastermind foil for a genius crime fighting detective never bothered you at all? For me this entire franchise was clearly just an excuse to do a big budget Scorsese tribute act and play around.
@@MattAlbie the best ideas are meant to divide people ‼️
I like the idea that it's a musical, but they should have gone with original pieces instead of random songs that don't really advance the plot.
this movie is a cahs grab lol😂, nothing more nothing less
I think that the opening and end of the movie are the "Folie A Deux" that the film was named. I think Lee was a red herring, that the true "Shared madness" was between Arthur and the the Joker that takes his place. I think that irony makes the movie itself a bit of a joke. WE are being told a story (like many joke structures) and the punchline is that the character wearing clown makeup wasn't THE clown at all, just the inspiration.
Thank god I’m not the only one who read it this way. 😅
So this joker is just the first one and later on the real joker everyone knows gets inspired?
@@ternative More or less. I think Arthur was like a match, small and pretty insignificant. But then it spread and spread until it hit a powder keg (The visitor that kills him). The guys that take advantage of the chaos he causes are bad, sure.
But the visitor not only commits murder, but mutilates his own face.
How many people would do that?
@@evagelios His killer wasn't a visitor. There was no visitor, the killer was an inmate, the guards set it up.
Not to mention
"Folie a' Deux" meaning is a delusion or mental illness share by two people🤔
I loved this movie. It's ironic that this movie's main message has been completely proven true by how many people disliked it. Many people wanted to see the Joker villain from the Batman movies, but instead they got poor Arthur Fleck. But isn't that exactly what Arthur was complaining about his whole life? That no one ever cared about him, who he really is. But the moment he became the Joker, then they paid attention to his alter ego. But the real Arthur is killed instead, the same way the critics killed this movie. Too bad. This movie is genius.
Then why did Arthur embrace that side in the end of first movie?
My complaint isn't that there's too much Arthur and not enough Joker. I just didn't enjoy the musical element. I knew it was going to be like that going in, but I think it would've been better without it.
@@noctambule5726 exactly, the logic is so different in 2 movies
the real arthur was the joker....did you not understand the first movie??? Nice try but that movie was so damn bad, they legit ruined any storyline with joker in that franchise XD no more of this joker or any for awhile after these horrible renditions of him. They ruined this, and the actors reputations by making this nonsense, no one likes something that cant find its own definition...
Amen takes a specific perspective to enjoy
I think the issue is that we measure it against the Joker (the person) as an origin story. I think it’s more of an origin story on the idea of the Joker
I went in thinking it can’t be that bad. It was that bad
My friend told me the exact same thing last night
Movie is absolute garbage
I was like “ oh God another song”
@@kevinhuerta-ponce138🤣🤣
r/woosh
Not even the Jonkler could save this movie 💔
😭
Real shi
Why so serious?
hhhhehhHEHehhehhehehhehhehehhehshhehhee
@mr.punisher5100 let's put a smile on that face 😋😈
@@chasingshangrilathat’s how small brained you are. Go watch John Wick and eat Cheetos, that’s more your speed.
The guards let Harley in to see Arthur because she's from a very wealthy family and just paid them. No, it's not explicitly stated, but in this case it's more likely than it being imagined.
As I recall, Arthur was in solitary confinement at the time. I also recall that the guards where absolutely pissed at Arthur.
When you consider how abusive the guards were ALL THE TIME, do you really think they'd let Lee in to see Arthur just because she's got a rich daddy?
@@axebeard6085money talks 😂
Yea it was pretty clear in this movie what was real and what wasn’t unlike the first one
The first was painfully clear too@@PaulieWalnuts13
See my theory is that the person that killed Arthur is actually Jack Napier. And it goes down to the line that Joker doesn't just have one if any origin story.
Ooo that's good. I was close to thinking something like that but what you said just completed the thought.
WoW, you 100% sure on this one Sherlock?
@@karlr.2631 yeah cuz Jack napier.was.aroubd when Bruce was a kid in a mental hospital it could line up
@@TheDamagedKoda You kidding me ? everyone knows that by getting the glasgow smile. that the dude did to himself fot no reason, it means he is Heath's Joker
@@karlr.2631 it's been done by other jokers other than heaths joker. And they said it was a separate thing so it can't be heaths joker.
Harley didn’t exist, rewatch the movie. Once you see the Pepe Le Pew cartoon the first time everything after that is in his head until we see the cartoon again, on the same TV, in the same room at the same time of day
In psychology, the shadow is the part of ourselves that we see as unacceptable and the ego keeps the shadow hidden. So the shadow taking over in the cartoon shows the worst part of himself, the part that he is ashamed of, defeating his ego.
To be fair, JOKER was never a super hero film, even though it had super hero named characters. That’s what made it unique. Just like Road To Perdition or A History Of Violence, it was more of a graphic novel adaptation.
It’s not a super hero film, it’s not a musical, it’s not a horror, or a courtroom drama. It’s a very bespoke unique thing. It’s the conclusion to the original film that was meant to be a stand alone thing.
It's just unnecessary
It is a musical and courtroom drama
Read Brian Azarello's Joker graphic novel if you haven't already. You might like that.
Joker is a supervillain
CRAZY THEORY : Arthur Fleck inspires the creation of all movie versions of Joker :
- Jack Nicholson's version who killed the Waynes, as seen in the first movie
- Heath Ledger's version who has scars
- Barry Keoghan's version who is born with a genetic congenital disease, maybe son of two mentally unstable persons. Harley may or may not have a son
(Ofcourse these characters won't directly turn into them, but like hint at alternate versions of them)
Hmm i didn't think of it like that and actually that kinda makes better sense then ago the other thirties out here
You might actually be onto something there, mate!
If this was Marvel, we would've gotten a movie with all versions coming together to save their 'ancestor'.
Agreed
And the fact that Bruce was still young at this time proves it even more, as the fact that the real joker would be near his age when he becomes the batman.
How could you possibly leave out the grape? That relived trauma was his breaking point right before "there is no joker"
With this extra knowledge, not having him take back power in the end of the movie was an extra horrible choice. He should’ve gone to Harley with what happened, then Harley should’ve armed him, and they should’ve returned to the prison to rid the city of those guards.
he literally mentioned the guard mace him relive his trauma just not how
@@Phosfityeah bc him sneaking in weapons is very much likely lol
@@Phosfitshe doesn't care abt him dude
@@PhosfitYou‘re also stuck in the fantasy. This movie didn‘t confirm the fantasy, it showed reality.
I think I’m the only person who really enjoyed this 😂
I liked it too! People will complain about anything
I enjoyed it as well, but I love musicals and crime dramas. I also liked the fantasy vs reality throughout, and I appreciate the ending.
I loved it as well. The musical parts were a little drawn out towards the end, but overall I really enjoyed it. I’m glad I didn’t look up reviews before watching.
I really enjoyed it too!
I loved it!
" i hope you get cancer" ... That line is from King of comedy also 🎙️
10:43 ahh I don’t think he had any visitor - the guard had a heavy grievance with Joker and set him up to get killed in the hallway
There was no visitor at the end. The guards conspired in the attack.
THIS
How can you be so sure?
@@noctambule5726because why would a guard allow arthur to hear a joke when he’s got a visitor? Also completely leaving him alone in a hallway with a patient who is conveniently following him
Maybe but he was about to be killed anwyays after being found guilty
I work at our city's local movie theater and over the course of the entire day we only had between 2 to 12 people per showtime. Two people walked out halfway through and those who stuck it out were engaged in conflicting conversation on the way-out, expressing frustration and confusion, as well as a strong disapproval of the ending. 5 years ago in 2019 when the first Joker released we had an average of 30-50 people per showing for a month strait. In a year of sequels at the box office it seems that this one didn't hit it's note.
Without explaining my own situation, you are 💯 accurate
I nearly walked out 20 minutes in
Yeah I’m gonna see Transformers instead
The more I think about it, the more I like the twist ending. In reality someone as mentally ill as Joker would have the mindset of “ he’s not the “real” Joker, I am!!” Leading to a type of “king of the hill” style moniker passed on with each Joker killed. It works quite well with the fact the Jokers never had a true identity.
I walked out on this movie, and I was on an airplane.
JESUS LOVES YOU KING , stay praying and keep your head up !
😭🤌🏾
this movie was beautiful, sad it's getting bad reviews from people that can't see it.
This was an amazing movie. Idc what people say or think. It was so good. It follows the concept that the Joker name is a mantle handed down. This wasn't the joker we know, not yet.
Cope
The joker has literally never ever been a mantle. The joker being without origin is not at all the same as the 'joker' being a title/role passed on.
Holy shit, WTF happened to this film😮
I reckon they were scared to seem like they were encouraging shootings/incels so took a HARD pivot. Seems like they just got Gaga, googled any song lyrics that have the word clown and made the rest up...
It’s a great film that people with bad media literacy and limited life experience don’t get.
holy cope ^ 😂
@@EatSleepEmpire How come all of your vast life experience didn't teach you what subjectivity means? Someone dislikes a movie that you like and that makes you think you know something about, not just them, but everyone that shares that opinion? That's not becoming of a sophisticado such as yourself.
@@enlightenme3673 I mean, that's the perfect example of a leftist, right?
When Gary testified and Arthur realized he was hurting people was really powerful and almost saved the movie.
They should’ve just not made a sequel and left it with the 1st one
Yeah it was a great standalone movie, didn't need a second one
I think a sequel could have worked… just not with this story or premise
Why? The first was a hit, but was worshipped by incel proud bois…. This movie was NEEDED to kill the first. This isn’t and never was the Joker
Yep
@@ryanb4940Yeah because a minority of weirdos enjoyed it for that reason, they had to screw over the fans who made it a billion dollar hit.
Dude that was one shitty ass movie, brutal honesty here
The first one wasn't that great either. At least in my opinion.
@@curtdecker694 First 1 was good in a disturbing kind of way cause it was a painful watch
@@curtdecker694the first one was amazing lol.
Awful movie, yes
You know a film is bad if it’s described as a “shitty ass” movie. Not just a shitty movie or an ass movie, but a shitty ass movie.
It must be understood that the introduction of got it wrong. There is no battle between Arthur and Joker personalities. Joker is a personality with confidence which Arthur gains through a gun, fan support, or rage. He is not battling with himself.
I think you're probably correct, but have you considered the fact that the court case rests on Arthur proving his insanity, against the state, who have been medicating him for thirty years, due to his insanity, now trying to prove he is not insane.
Maybe Dent is right, and "his mental illness is a performance", but who wrote the script?
@@happinesstantbf This was in 1981
THANK YOU. I interpreted his "there is no joker scene" as a way to tell that the joker wasn't responsible for his crimes/actions, but he's just one person. Arthur is joker just like joker is arthur. Joker is someone arthur has developed into, therefore, he's the only one responsible for his crimes. he's only one person.
The first film was a commentary on the elite, the second film is a commentary on society and the protestors. Genius.
This is the first time we really get a glimpse into how insane the joker really is. The whole story is all in his head. I see why its being panned now but This film will be highly reguarded in the future.
Agreed. This film was brilliant in many ways. The direction was really good and the writing was as well. Of course people will always have negative things to say when the film evokes a strong emotion out of you. I think him dying at the end was the icing on the cake to end this title and close the chapter on his character. He pretty much had no way out. If he didn’t get killed he’d just die in the chair. The film was grounded to reality so nobody was gonna save the day and he wasn’t gonna get lucky again.
Yes people will change their minds upon a rewatch just like they did with the first one
@@iancraigmthat’s what I remember 😂 I didn’t watch the first one in theaters because I remember a lot of people didn’t like it and I don’t care to go to the movies either way.. I don’t know if it was because of Joaquin Phoenix or what not… but then I saw it years later at home and I loved the movie… didn’t understand why people didn’t like it.. then I watched Joaquin on UA-cam getting praised for his work in the movie 🤦🏻♂️😂 I was thinking.. “I thought people said this was a bad movie?🙄” 😂
I don't think that will happen.
I believe so, yes. It has faults, but there's so much there. It's a great film.
Like jerome said in gotham, the joker Is an idea a philosophy. Their's nothing more contagious than laughter.
Some edgy teenager thinks this is deep
This came out rapidly good job
In no way does the dude cutting his face try to be Heath ledger. Him and Bruce are the same age basically. Bruce is like 12 in this movie. Makes no sense.
Jack Nicholsons joker was literally the one who killed Bruce’s parents when he was a kid
@@HankingMySchraderJack is barely supposed to be a few years older a teen.even though he looks old. The dude in this movie looks 30. That’s 20 years at least. And it’s stupid to even think they’re trying to link these two movies. It makes the Nolan movies look bad.
@@deatherbradley I highly doubt they are going that route but it’s not impossible. But Keaton is also 14 years younger than Nicholson so it’s not impossible
Concept: B+
Execution: C (saved by the sets, costumes, acting, and camera work)...
I don't know why people think it's such a bad film, I went to see it with my partner last night, and yeah there were maybe 2 or 3 too many musical numbers, but aside from that it was really good
I couldnt agree more!!!!!! I think it was a soild movie!
2 or 3 too many??? that's a LOT
Yeah it was really good. People just can’t handle that he died maybe. That’s my assumption.
It was great, these reviewers just agree with whatever they read on twitter.
@@a-animations8163it never really had the joker as a threat he never really did anything
Don't care what anyone says negatively about this movie was just as awesome as the first
Then you clearly didn’t understand the first movie
I took the ending as just a smart way of showing that Arthur Fleck was never the Joker we associate with Nicholson/Hamill/Ledger. Fleck's Joker was the inspiration for the future Joker, who comes later. Fleck's Joker repeatedly inspires the public to dress identical and cause anarchy in Joker's name, makes sense if eventually it inspires a complete sociopath to do so. Bruce Wayne is still a child at this point of the timeline, it actually makes no sense t to me for Arthur Fleck to be the same Joker that is portrayed by the other actors.
Yall are ignoring the fact that there is another joker currently on screen with the same facial scarring. I don’t think it’s supposed to be heath I think it’s just supposed to be symbolic of a passing of the torch moment and they chose to have him cut his mouth open so that the symbolism wouldn’t be lost because it would be easy to say that this person killed him for whatever reason and was just any random crazy but tying it deeper to jokers mythology especially seeing how many people he’s inspired in this movie already I think it’s a really fitting ending actually.
Not at all. They made a reference to Heath to make the mindless watchers who don’t understand anything flip out because it’s a reference to another great joker. They should have just kept this Joker with one movie, and if they wanted to make a sequel don’t make it like this. Oh wait but apparently that wasn’t even the joker, the real joker of this sequel was just some background character who happened to also be unhinged.
@@youknowit8713he was too old to be our joker so they had to make him an inspiration instead come on now it wasn't tht difficult to grasp what they were trying to do
I get people not liking the ending but to see people call the whole movie “ a shitty ass movie” is a joke it was good at what it was trying to do makes you question what’s actually happening and I think it did that element better then the first movie
The musicals distract you from the fact that this was a weak plot, there was no suspense, no chills, we basically knew what was going to happen and that Arthur was going to lose in the end either way.
@@Power_trip397 you telling me you were expecting him to die and the courtroom to blow up? Also Harley Quinn leaving him? I think those were pretty good plot twists
@@Vee_breeze2767 I expected him to escape the trial when he was going to defend himself and build that mountain with Harley, I mean the joker is a smart, manipulative fictional character after all, but Arthur couldn’t handle the pressure of being portrayed as the joker anymore that was just the let down point.
@@Power_trip397 yeah I was let down by that too. Although I do still like the ending but that’s just my opinion.
@@Vee_breeze2767 that is the real joker that was inspired by Arthur’s semi version of the joker 💯
Gary's testimony is the heart of this great film
So... was I the only person who really enjoyed this movie? It's flawed, but there's a ton of great moments in it
I loved it tbh. Amazing acting and loads of plot twists.
I liked it not as good as the first but enjoyable
@@toonchris5777 agreed
amazing movie personally i felt that the musical route fit very well as that’s really all that arthur had since he was in prison.
Well some people enjoy watching “the view” lol
I think the only reason they used the same song so many times is because it filled time. This movie could have been 1hr 30mins if they didn't keep reusing songs for seemingly pointless reasons
25:48 i don’t think so at all, the reason why he was broken and helpless at that point on why he said the joker is a fantasy is because he got sexually assaulted!! after that moment, you see how small he gets and how afraid he is. that broke him.
The entire film we are not watching the jokers origin but the person the joker is basing himself on
I'm so glad I'm seeing more and more ppl understanding what they were doing instead of the lot saying what they should've done😂😂😂 this movie was great....minus the singing
@@kiidkif2009 i though the singing wasn't bad
@@Barnaacle it wasn't bad it was just waaaaay too much
@@kiidkif2009 not really it was him getting more and more dilutional
I just finished the movie, iv been waiting for you guys to talk about that ending
So, we can all agree that this film is one major troll, right? Just like The Matrix Resurrections, this film seems to be dripping with contempt for its own existence. Its inaccessibility has to be deliberate.
There is a simple explanation why this isn't linked to Heath! This movie is held in 80s and not in early 00s. Harvey Dent existing in this movie is why the joker is a character and not an inspiration.
I literally thought that this movie was written by AI at first, but by the end, I realized it takes talent to create something so soulless
What made it soulless
@@jayloncollins9681he won't answer because he doesn't have one
@@jinadumehmet6 Bravo vince
This movie was anything but soulless lmao
The reason we are hearing repeat songs. Is because people with mental illness. Sometimes repeat the same song in their heads or out loud.
Echolalia 😊
no lol they just ran out of songs
Erm dude, Rikers is built exactly like that with the bridge.
If you like Good film , you’re gonna enjoy it. If you’re looking for a good DC joker movie that successfully executes what part 1 did, you’re gonna feel robbed. It’s not THAT bad
So basically thier was no point to this movie 😂😂😂😂
@@SuperSaiyanBrokuThe point was how society idealizes violence and idolizes the mental health victims who perpetrate it. At the end of the day though, society is apathetic towards people like Arthur and will discard them if they don't live up to the fantasy they created
It makes you feel stupid for liking the first one. It’s terrible and ashamed of existing. Literally robs Arthur’s character of his joker identity and gave it to some random inmate we don’t know so that he can go fight Batman in the future (not that we’re gonna see it) , making Arthur’s character nothing more than just the inspiration for the character we actually care about. Arthur could’ve been a good joker with his origin taking inspiration from the killing jokes flashbacks, but this movie wanted his reputation tarnished
@@jinadumehmet6 Yea , it certainly felt like that was the message. Almost as if Todd Phillips was forced to create a movie deliberately dismantling what the previous film did. Very reluctant they decided this was a good direction to go. Genuine disappointment.
As Krusty once said "What the hell was that?"
Idk there's alot of versions of the Joker that has the scars. I never thought Todd Phillips was referencing the Ledger Joker but I can see the connection.
9:30 On the point of the bridge to Arkham being impractical, isn't there a bridge to Rikers Island? I think that is what they were going for.
Imagine watching a film from the superhero universe and complaining about impracticalities.
@@happinesstanright
I also found that part a bit irritating, especially in a movie that was heavy on visuals and to a good deal was only taking place in a fantasy world.
9:30 Well, when the criminals keep escaping, having them be far way from the people of Gotham is a smart design choice and this is the smartest version of arkham I've seen
The problem was with expectations. It was never a movie about batman or the lore of batman; it was just about a character which is taking place in elseworld. He wasnt the real joker from the beginning. He was just inspiration for the next one
I really liked the joker 2, I kinda like the idea of the joker is just a concept until you actually do it. I also think it’s interesting the person who killed Batman’s parents wasn’t “the main joker”, rather the idea of joker. So Batman has more of a vandeda against the idea, who fights all versions of joker. Aka the multiple different personalities through Batman films. And for the ending it’s just as the movie says, the idea of joker is being moved on to a different and younger soul which personally I like. I also think puddle isint forced to be the groomsman in this regard rather a positive image of puddle in Arthur’s mind during his fantasy. Even though puddle clearly disgusted with Arthur
I definitely don’t think it’s as bad as people are making it out to be, but I do understand and agree with the criticisms you presented in this video. It was definitely odd for them to continue using the same small list of songs over and over again
We haven't seen a sequel this good since Son of the Mask.
The first 40 min were good. The other half was just out of pace. I wish those first 40 min was just a epilogue short film for Joker 1
I agree
agreed, ive been saying the film is like 3/4 good then it crumbles
It seems like the first 90% of Joker 2 was exactly the movie I wanted it to be . . . up until he said there was no Joker and Harley walks out. At that point I realized it was just the movie Todd Phillips wanted it to be. Too bad they weren’t the same movie.
"they wouldn't build a bridge to Arkham"
*Arkham Asylum has entered the chatroom*
When you think about it. Joker has a variety of back/origins story. So, with this being a story about joker. His origins are multiple, i guess, archetypes. I think the team is trying to pay it forward. With the Joker being such an unpredictable enigma. If that man's sense.
All of the Looney Tunes, shown on the prison tv, were Pepe Le Pew ones. Seemed to be at least two different ones.
I don't understand why everybody hates this!! I absolutely love this. I even love musical songs
@@M.A.D.D.Y cause it’s not the joker lol like really you can call the 2 movies the mad comedian and the mad comedian 2 but don’t call it the joker
Gays loves musicals
@heavyhitter5538 i do thanks!!
I actually enjoyed the movie but i can understand why people aren't happy with it. Most people were expecting something else.
I think your right, I think it was really good, but it's not a thriller/psyco-drama, it's a court-drama/musical. For what it is, I think it's good, but people wanted it to be like the first movie.
@@colbyhurst9457exactly. I kinda liked it. Not as much as the first, but it was still good.
I enjoyed it quite a bit too. Dont really know what anyone was expecting but it followed up on the first as I was assuming it would.
I enjoyed it. I'm not too happy with the ending, but it was pretty decent for a sequel, I don't think any sequel could have bested the first one.
They were hoping for explosions and quips lol
Funny thing about jokers, there's two in every deck!
The Waynes are dead, they die in the ending of the first movie.
The building is still there though.
The company still exists and Bruce is still alive at this point living with Alfred
16:12 citizens in Smiling Friends when they have to get Tickets for Dave land
11:44 *Nope they clearly say when giving the verdict that this Gotham is in NY*
The first one was much better. This 2nd movie they were pushing this musical to hard for viewers to like it. Should had not made a sequel
I think the song that they were singing in the B sector class was “Daddy Sang Bass” by Johnny Cash.. a nod to Joaquin’s role as the star in Walk The Line.
Surprised you didn't mention the parallel between the final shot of the film, and the title-card shot from the first film. They're practically the same, even down to him grabbing at the left side of his abdomen.
I give it a 5/5. You guys are nuts these guys were genius because it was talking about the Spirit of The Joker. In the movie Arthur never was THE JOKER.
Amen! Thats all. Amazing movie
I enjoyed it I thought the first one introduced the idea of the joker and this one introduced the psychopath joker at the end and Harley Quinn which was really amazing in my opinion 😎
I liked it! But I understand the musical parts might not be likable for most people.
I'm convinced Todd Phillips intentionally made this movie's story and writing so bad to ensure the studio would never ask for a third movie.
Shit, Gotham did the legacy insanity for the Joker character in a vastly superior way.
From thinking of a psychological POV. This movie was brilliant.
I waited for Jackie to get what he deserved.
I admire how everyone involved had the courage to basically blow up everything the first movie set up
Maybe the bridge was sponsored by the Wayne Foundation.
Young Master Bruce anticipates many visits to Arkham in his future.
We the viewers shared a delusion with Fleck... That this movie/story was worth making or seeing
Facts🤣
Oh when the saints go marching in 🎶
Movie def wasn’t for every one takes a specific kind to truly appreciate this type of movie and I’d recommend you go check out Deadpool vs werewolf
Heath Ledger is our favorite *_unanimated_* Joker... *Stern look. 🤣🤣🤣
stopping kids from saying first
Unpopular opinion. I loved it.
So did I, and I don‘t really care about the popularity of my opinion.
The thing about the first movie is that your constantly wondering what's in his head and what's not. However, the second film makes it so obvious that there's no questioning and it really kills the illusion
Yet, it confirms another one. It clearly says that the idea of Joker is going to live on. It immortalizes the Joker.
Why do people think its heaths joker at the end 🤦 age and time period is completely different
I didnt think that. I did think it was someone taking over the mantle of Joker.
Unless the time period is also an illusion. I remember that being a major theory from the first one
no one thinks its heaths joker, it was an unnecessary nod to his take on the character
it's a nod to it not supposed to actually be the same one
That kid from Gotham series was a better joker.
i feel like the movie can work if initially it was all in his imagination, but by the end of the movie, it happens for real. he kills everyone in the room for real in a musical manner.
Please do not insult the Nolanverse. This has 0% to do with it. It's embarrassing, honestly.
this just felt like phillips saw the crowded room and took inspiration only by that
18:06 Tomas Wayne is dead
Another thing i will say about this film having thought about it is tht the ppl wanted someone tht represented their mental state and looked to 'the joker' for tht but he(fleck) didn't want tht he just wanted ppl to laugh at his jokes and live a life loved by someone but this is gotham buddy take tht shit to metropolis. So the true Joker will come and take up tht role and probably gain the same followers and maybe more
Thanks for this video. Saved me a movie ticket to theaters 😅
Yeah this looks like a mess!