Luftwaffe Lightning; The Focke Wulf Fw 187 Falke
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- The Focke Wulf 187 Falke (Falcon) was a single seat heavy fighter that on paper had a lot going for it but which lacked a role in the Luftwaffe’s doctrine. As a result it is another great aircraft "what-if?"
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Long range, high performance, highly maneuverable, and with Daimler V12 engines that could be optimized for medium to high altitude performance...sounds like a perfect escort fighter, which the Luftwaffe lacked during the crucial summer and fall 1940 summer air offensive that is known as the Battle of Britain. Yes, lucky for the Allies the RLM was unable to find a use for this design.
It's because Goering was buddies with Messerschmidt, and just shot down (pun intended) any competition. The Nazi leadership was corrupt to the core, that's how they got there in the first place.
Probably the most famous example is the FW190. It was better in any way than the Bf109 , but Messerschmidt had dibs on the Mercedes engines, so the FW190 had to use the weaker BMW aircooled engines.
@@scratchy996 Pretty sure the many in the US government do the exact same things a Goering even today.
@@littlejimmy8744 Never underestimate the power of buddy corruption!
Although as its britain based they would have said autumn 😉👍
@@scratchy996 its so bizarre its actually true
Thank you for the video. I admire this plane.
The 187 was 60km/h faster then the next fastest in production fighter. With bad engines. It did not have the engines which where planned for it before the war. Instead it had engines with lower power because the planned ones wheren´t available because of production issues. The plane was not procured because it was more expensive. But the additional price was only for a second engine. This extra price was to be saved by the "Reichsluftfahrtministerium".
Also there was a version later on with BMW801 engines.
If I remember right, Galland said: "This was the plane that we needed badly later in the war."
This info is according to a german book about Kurt Tank. "Die Geschichte der deutschen Luftfahrt: Kurt Tank - Konstrukteur und Testpilot bei Focke Wulf". They made a whole volume about his work in the series.
....There was a german guy, who built the 187 as an RC plane with a wingspan of maybe 3 m. With 2 chainsaw engines. :-)
I have been aware of the Fw 187 for a very long time and suspected that it could have been a spectacular fighter with further development. But I am also glad the Allies never had to fight it.
"War, what is it good for?" UA-cam documentaries, that's what.
Quickened progress in technology, maybe?
@@riazhassan6570 ...serves the undertaker ;) The myth of tech. progress thru war is not sustainable ("even" considering German Rocket engineering" etc.). Edit: BUT I love airplanes, and the "Falke" has been seldomly discussed/presented on the web - THX!)
@@horsservice4820 that's not true. War has always been a great driver of technology
Bomber killer/long range escort that wasn't as vulnerable to single engine fighters
Good Gawd y'all...
With the benefit of hindsight, it is just as well that the Germans made so may short sighted decisions. Nice video.
Yeah Imagine if they'd had a fleet of these against the B-17s of they'd had these protecting their bombers during the Battle of Britain.
When you consider how successful the P38 was its amazing it was the only twin engine fighter that was widely adopted.
@@tonywilson4713 ... the Mosquito was no slouch ... although its role differed ...
To be honest it didn't really have a role. BF109's were effective at killing bombers and were cheaper/faster to make. And as a night fighter, the Germans had effective planes like the UHU and converted Bf110's, JU88's. The HE 219 A7 UHU had a top speed of 420 mph. The Falke would have been effective versus bombers, but would have failed at actual dogfighting VS the P51B/C and D. Production space was limited, resources were always a struggle for the Germans and closing down other production lines to fit in this plane would have been a costly mistake. In this case the German Air Ministry was correct....paper stats are only one factor in war.
The Fw187 first prototype flew in 1937.The Me 110, Goerings pride and joy flew in 1936. It was no secret he favoured Willi Messerschmidt. Already the Fw187 was the ugly duckling, and doomed. On paper, and with hindsight this aircraft could have posed a greater threat to the RAF during the first two years of war, than the two front line models used at the time by the Luftwaffe. Faster and more manoeuvrable than the Me110, and with a longer range, (therefore loiter time,) than the Me109. Exactly what was required in 1940 against the RAF. Obviously the Germans did not know that at the time. If it had gone operational. Its shortcomings would have found it being used the same way, that the Me110 found itself in by 1941-42.
As a single seater, it would not have made a good night fighter. As the RAF proved through trial and error. (Especially with the Typhoon.)
As for your reply, there are a few errors.
To my knowledge the Ju87 was never used as a serious night fighter as you state at any time during the war. As for the "Owl" you mentioned. This was the He 219, not 217 as you state. 217 was allocated to the Do 217, which proved to be an excellent night fighter. The He 219s first operational mission was not until June 1943. The P51 was operational over Europe in limited numbers with the RAF in late 1942. These later generation aircraft were superior, as all the later aircraft were to any model that flew in the early war years. I hope this makes my comment clearer.
@@brokeandtired Great reference but the Uhu was actually the 219 not 217 -> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_219
And the Uhu really was a "whatif" and if anything British Bomber command, who lost so many crews, were blessed to not lose more if it been produced in any effective number. ua-cam.com/video/fowOHJRDl14/v-deo.html
I had never heard of the Falke and often wondered why the Germans didn’t build a fighter like this. Many thanks for this enlightening video! 😊
If it is still in print, get Luftwaffe planes from Barnes and Nobles.
Nice little stories, decent info and pics and drawings.
It is worth 20$ for the shelf and coffee book.
Didn't they have Me-210, Me-310, Me-410? Also adapting the Ju-88.
@@aaronseet2738 I was thinking about a twin engine fighter with only forward firing guns, like the P-38. I think the Germans added rear-firing guns to all their twin engine combat aircraft. I would have thought that was “dead weight” in some roles, such as interceptor.
@@sthanstigger2328 I can think of the Hs-129 but that's ground attack aircraft.
@@aaronseet2738 yes, I should have said “fighter/interceptor” aircraft instead of combat aircraft 😊
You should have mentioned the vast improvement in performance once permission was granted to fit Daimler Benz engines that Kurt Tank originally specified for the FW-187. A missed opportunity!
The later BMW, Daimler Benz and Jumo engines all could have done a good job !
But you never should start a war unprepared and your airforce should not be managed by old party buddies (Göring and Udet).
With weak 1000 hp engines it had a speed of 395 mph with 800 mile range.
With 1400 hp or 1700 hp Mercedes engines it would easily have been fastest of all or in class.
Could have been arguably the best twin in the war.
Never. There always would be Mosquito.
Which has to make us wonder what the War would have been like. If the RAF had invented the deHavilland Hornet early enough.
Never heard of this one before. Thanks for sharing.
Ed; love your vids on less well known aircraft of the 30s and 40s. I have known about this aircraft from reading my Dad's surviving books of the period when I was a child in the early 1960s. Instead of reading fairy tales, I read books like 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers', often featuring aircraft entries of which little was known beyond a grainy pic and speculative performance figures. A comment on the Me 110 at 04:06; 'barely able of holding their own against Spitfires and Hurricanes.' My reading suggests they were entirely outclassed by the RAF fighters, relying on the tactic of flying in defensive circles with several other Me 110s when attacked and even requiring their own Me 109 fighter escort. Cheers.
The Me 110 wasnt quite the pushover that has been stated. RAF pilots were warned not to give an Me 110 a chance to hit them with it's front guns,by making head on attacks and at high altitudes, the Hurricane 1 was not as much of a threat as the Spitfire , as the ME 110 was quite fast and a well-handled 110 could give a Hurri a run for it's money. There was at least one dogfight over the Channel, up at 25,000 feet and higher when 110s held the Hurricanes to a scoreless draw. Apart from that, they were feared fighter-bombers. The nearest RAF equivalent, the Beaufighter, was even lass manouverable than the 110 and was utterly vulnerable to enemy single engined fighters. The late Sam McAughtry, noted writer, had been a Beau navigator and stated that " The one thing we feared above all else was single-engined fighters. We could cope with flak but we hadn't a chance against fighters".
@@michaelbevan3285 it would've been bleheims initially (developed from the late 30s passenger aircraft) ... be110s where superior to earlier air ministry designes .. as beaufighters came along later
Slow too - despite their sleek shape.
Wasn't it Goering himself who championed the Bf-110 and the whole "Zerstorer" concept? It was probably impossible to push any competing design through as long as he was in charge. Good thing for the allies! :-D
The way I heard it, the Zerstorer idea was another example of Hitler being the Allies' best general. Goering was a WW1 ace, he's more likely to have put the kibosh on any more Zerstorer types because he would have liked fighters light & nimble like the Bf109...
Round boy may also have owned stock in Messerschmitt
From what I heard as soon as Gøring came into office he started by dividing the Lufteaffe into 13 divisions
Separate of each other
Instead of keeping with let’s say 4 - Marine, Fighter, Bomber, and ground attack
I am no General - but decentralization of power sounds like a bad idea when tryi to attack one enemy at the time
your capacities should be united in effort
As per Sun Tzu
@@jamesricker3997 round boy did as far as I'm aware and willy messerschmit was a darling of the party ... along with Hugo junkers!
Goering As Nunya Bidniz pointed out was a highly decorated WW1 ace but clearly quite 'full of himself'. Think a Hitler 'kiss ass' and more concerned about his appearance and collections than tactics. (Bottom line..): If German had just finished what they started (finished off Great Britain when they could have..) war would have gone much differently (imagine to weight of the German army that drove on Russia had been focused West - had no reason to pick that fight - had a peace treaty in place & collaborated before the war - could have waited..?). Would have had a huge ripple affect on the Pacific campaign on both sides (Allies & Axis) as well. Also know this thread wouldn't have existed either, but my German language skills would probably be better or more likely I would have never been born ;-)..
Thanks for a fascinating view of a - to me certainly - hitherto unknown aircraft. A top-notch production! I look forward to others on your channel.
A German teacher asks his class: "What does a missed opportunity mean?"
A student replies: "The Focke Wulf Fw 187 Falke."
If it looks right , it goes right. A Beauty , especially on the picture when you talked about 3 of them being stationed in Norway. With that canopy open , it really does look like a Falcon.
When I see this aircraft the first that comes to my mind is the Westland whirlwind. A beautiful and underrated machine.
My thought until I saw the name ^^
Another great video I really enjoyed.
Seeing the layout of this aircraft immediately brought to mind that at one point the Germans attempted to make their own version of the British mosquitoe.... and they didn't consider this. I'm speechless... 😐
Yes the Fw 187 could have performed some of the roles of the Mosquito just as well. High speed Reconnaissance, even bomber (so long as only one 250kg or 500kg external bomb) and night fighter with lightweight Neptune radar so long as they didn't make the second crew member face rearward with guns.
The situation with Focke Wulf 187 reminded me of the recently updated video by Ed of the Westland Whirlwind. Great Britain faced a lack of resources in 1940 just as Germany later in the war. Diverting front line (Merlin) engines and material resources from Spitfires would have reduced production, when they needed the #'s. Could add that twin engine aircraft are more complicated to fly (even if they have increased stability & performance). Take longer to learn how master and to get the most performance out of such aircraft (much like the P-38 - extremely dangerous in capable hands) but demands of war didn't allow for many training flight hours. Best wishes all..
It would probably have been better for the Luftwaffe to operate Fw 187 instead of Me 110. The Fw 187 would have been a nightmare for the allies as a long range photo reconnaissance aircraft to fast to intercept as well as a long range fighter that could turn up anywhere a Luftwaffe bomber could A small external bomb load (say 250kg) would not have impaired speed enough to make interception possible.
Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe was saddled with the Me 210 which suffered from horrendous flight characteristics.
It was developed into the Me 410 but not before it managed to cause the Germans an estimated 600 pilots at a time when they could not afford to lose a single pilot
@@jamesricker3997 The Me 410 still had some bad flight characteristics. Which is why so few were made.
@@thunberbolttwo3953 One day, it might turn out that some Jewish designer or SOE agent sabotaged these aircraft in some way...
@@ohgosh5892 Except that did NOT happen. The factory that made the glue necesary for it was BOMBED out of existance. A alternative was NOT found. Which doomed the aircraft.
@@thunberbolttwo3953 "The factory that made the glue necesary" the conversation was about the Me210 and Me410, not the FW Moskito, you numpty.
Excellent little VLOG. The aircraft looks remarkably like the merlin engined Bristol Beaufighter.
The Falcon is the answer to a question nobody was asking.
I know my WW2 aircraft but never heard of the FW187 Falke before. Interesting video. Looks like Goering let this one slip by him. Bad-ass looking design.
One slip by? One?
Seriously?
Except for the engines it does resemble the Henshel tank busters.
With higher speed, more range and a far bigger cockpit as the Hs129, which was a plane for jockeys only. If they had switched the machine guns to 2 Mk 103 or Mk 108 and added armor, the Focke-Wulf had been a better tank killer.
It’s Henschel
@@JohnDoe-ee6qs My complaints have concerned the free space in that cockpit. It was narrow and cramped, so that only small pilots could fly this plane. Engine instruments had to be placed outside, because there was no room inside.
Billy Conelly@@gregoryemmanuel9168
German pilots actually regarded the p-38 lightning as an easy kill. They viewed it as having the same issues as the Bf 110. A poor rate of roll. The P-38 was far more successful in the Pacific than in Europe.
They were fast enough to be a hard kill. Close to mach 1 diving.
@@FranciscoPartidas The P-38 had serious problems in a dive and couldn’t get near Mach 1. No propeller aircraft could but the P-38 was afflicted with a problem known as “Mach tuck”. It wasn’t until the introduction of “manoeuvre flaps” that the problem was solved but at a reduced dive speed.
@@thethirdman225 yes, I knew that. I read also that P38 in Europe lacked some importamt pièce, turbo compressor, super compressor, can't remember.
But the truth is most American aces did it on a Lightning.
@@FranciscoPartidas _Borzhe moi..._ Why did you say it could do almost Mach 1 in a dive if you also knew about its aerodynamic problems?
Let's get a few things in order about air combat. In the post war period, an American pilot called Bob Hoover postulated that there were two kinds of air combat: energy and angles. In WWI pretty much all fighters were angles fighters and they spent much of their time trying to get a lead on their opponent. There were exceptions, like von Richthofen who stalked his prey. In WWII, virtually all aircraft were energy fighters. Their pilots usually used speed and altitude to bounce their opponents.
The P-38 was 100% an energy fighter. It had three advantages for the pilot: long range, which was very useful in long flights over the ocean in the Pacific campaign; good speed and finally, its rather limited firepower was highly concentrated in the nose of the aircraft, which totally eliminated the need for convergence. It also had its down sides. It was bigger and heavier with higher levels of inertia meaning that whatever its aerodynamic layout, it would always be at a disadvantage in manoeuvres, such as roll, against single engine, single seat fighters in an angles fight. If the initial bounce didn't work, the pilot was left with rather limited options and if manoeuvre evolved.
The P-38 had another problem: it was much more complex aircraft than a single engine aircraft. It was said of the F6f Hellcat that you could teach a college grad to fly it in six weeks but a P-38 pilot needed about 400 hours to be combat ready. The aircraft was a lot more expensive to build and a lot more expensive to operate. It had, to use a modern expression, a high pilot workload. That meant the pilot had to ficus on flying the aircraft to a greater extent than others while he was trying to stay alive.
In spite of the OP's original comment, I doubt if any reasonably contemporaneous fighter would have been an "easy kill".
@@thethirdman225 I just said close.... Just saying P38 has a very sleek profile capable of achieve high speed.
She suffered from aerodinamic compression (engineers don't knew very much about that at that time) that rendered uncontrollable. I knew about some famous pilot that almost die in a dive, but the recovered and managed to shot down an Me109.
some says P38 put the framework of the F80 shooting star.
Consider the fact that P38 were widely used on air racing in the post war era.
The Luftwaffe must have been really kicking themselves over not adopting this plane after the Dehavilon Mosquito showed up
*De Havilland
@@comethiburs2326
Whatevah
@@scomo532 lol, but DeHavilland was a great aviation company,
Can you imagine the impression the DH101 Hornet would have made had De Havilland gotten on working it up sooner & the Air Ministry not had such a stick up their collective backsides w/ the original Mossie? As it was, it just missed the curtain call, what with jets coming along just as it was getting sorted out.
Kurt Tank was clearly a better designer than Willy Messerschmitt
yeah but the whole FW company and also kurt tank werent into that NSDAP stuff as much as good old willy messerschmidt
It's not what you know, it's who you know.
Not everything Kurt touched was gold. Focke Wulf had their fair share of stinker projects.
@@magoid ah I think perhaps the condor comes to mind, good range and gave the Allies sleepless nights, but had a tendency to break its back on a hard landing, but it was never designed as a patrol bomber , it started life as a civil airliner, it was the Japanese who wanted a conversion, and the there was the parasol winged fighter which they entered against the 109 in the thirties, and a number of bomber prototypes which didn't make the grade and had the unfortunate tendency to catch fire
@@grndiesel its always the way isn't it, you can have a dazzling design but if you don't pay off the right people you will have a battle getting orders
1937: Focke Wulf 187 = Maximum speed: 525 km/h (326 mph, 283 kn) at 4,000 m (13,123 ft)
1937: BF109-B : 470kph/ 292 mph at 13,120 feet
Willy Messerschmidt was better at shmoozing the nazis than Kurt Tank. Tank was discounted as a non preferred supplier perhaps he said something to Goering out of place at one satge. . The fact that the Fw 190 did so well was that it's performance was streets ahead of the Me offerings and just couldn't be ignored. I believe that Galland had one of these as a private hack.
I think that is absolutely correct from everything I have read about Messerschmidt the man, if not an enthusiastic nazi then he certainly knew how to charm them and particularly hitler himself.
Galland, at one time, had two 109Fs allocated as his personal aircraft, with extra guns fitted, such was his influence.
Similar to the He100.
Was Tank the one who at a dinner with top NAZIs noticed Goering’s flamboyant dress and clear nail polished turned and asked Hitler if there is something he should no about Goering? 😂 Goering didn’t like the insinuation.
@@michaelbevan3285 I don’t recall him having extra guns but he had a telescopic sight (for what reason I don’t know) and - it was rumoured - an ashtray for his cigars. It didn’t require a lot of influence to do that because nearly all of it could be done in the field. Lots of squadron commanders had mods done. Some, like Toni Hackl, had both a 109 and a 190 at his disposal.
One thing that a lot of people don’t realize is that the original concept of both the Spitfire and Bf 109 was that of “point defense fighters”. That means one hour of endurance which was a short leash on the 109 during the Battle of Britain. Bf 109 had less than 10 minutes of time over England to protect the bombers before needing to return to base. This aircraft as mentioned would have been valuable as a bomber escort.
3:08 that engine looks happy
4:52: "named the forked tail devil by German pilots" ... some stupid legends never die. In fact German pilots called the P-38 ironically "bel ami" after a popular movie of the thirties.
A very good example of what if,...and fortunately for the allies it never went in to service.
Great video Ed
Luftwaffe doctrine and internal politics/favouring certain designers really hurt some great types.
You have described the "why" about the loosing forces of WWII. Political adhesions that ignored competitive and superior design capabilities!
Always been one of my favourite aircraft....thanks for this. A mighty relief that this plane was not built in place of the 110 the 109 production junked for developments of the 190 and the 262 mass produced a year or 2 earlier......any chance of a chat on the Horten flying wing fighter?
I will definitely do so! Oh I know, but your exposition skills are pretty darn 👍...another of my obsessions is the British Phantom ..P 1121? I'd kill to hear a chat about that! Good weekend unto u Sir!!
@@tariqbutt3492 ah tje H.S.P1121 what an aircraft that never entered service... Duncan sandy had a lot to answer for... when this way of thinking subsided it let to the purchase of inferior designs
Referring to statements of contemporary witnesses in the German journal "Flugzeug Classic" (various articles), all pilots were very fond of the Fw 187. The aerial victories, since achieved by factory pilots, were not officially recognized or recorded, but there are said to have been some. The Fw 187 was also only a temporary luxury of the Bremen works. Wear and tear, maintenance and transfer of pilots put an end to it.
Whether the Fw 187 could have replaced a Bf 110 in its multitasking role is debatable, but as a fighter with the speed and agility at the time...that would have been interesting in the skies over England.
Apart from that, wonderful video about an interesting aircraft whose true nature did not fit the Luftwaffe's world of thought.
There is the fact that very few designs begun during WWII fought before the end of WWII.
Designs begun before the war that made a difference IN the war are many.
This is why adapting a design made for an expected role into one that works IN a real role was so important.
This was done by the British (Mosquito, all of the single-engined fighters, several of their bombers) and by the USA, the A36 becoming the P51 in a short time, for example.
The Nazis by comparison did convert some planes for new roles, but their attempts to introduce new fighters were failures and resulted in new versions of old fighters and a few advanced designs that arrived too late or were abandoned before the end of the war.
Their attempts to introduce new bombers were even less successful, with only the Ju188 (a re-design of the Ju88 begun before the war) being almost alone in arriving in numbers.
I love its lines and shape. Its one of my non mass produced fighters of the war.
Another perfect inspiration for a Crimson Skies style airplane
Madness when you consider the Luftwaffe continued with the Me 210 and 410, which were basically useless.
Very true. Luckily for everyone else, Nazi leadership was so egocentric, drug-addled, and greedy otherwise they may have made decisions more for the good of the reich than themselves.
@Prime Artemis Are you insane?
Hello Ed, the A-0 in the 187 designation is read as “A Zero”. In German it’s pronounced as “A Null”, denoting a pre series or pre production aircraft (Vorserie in German) as opposed to V for “Versuch”, which were prototypes. It’s a bit like the US X and Y prefixes to plane designations. X would be Versuch, like experimental, Y would be Vorserie, just short of going into mass production (then usually discarded by some stupid bureaucracy). Thanks for the great videos 👍 and Greetings.
A-Null 187 sounds like ass murder
This entire story reminds me of how the British did not like the concept of the de Havilland Mosquito until after Geoffrey De Havilland had made and flown his prototype.
FW/Kurt Tank used this design experience when developing the Prototypes for the TA -254(?) 'Moskito'- in 1943,in an attempt to counter the RAF Mosquito's. The TA-254 also used the Laminated Plywood construction techniques.
Pilots: “hey, these new planes are great! Better than both the 109 and the 110!“
Command staff to assistant: (whispering) “pull those damn things out and send them back; we can’t have this.“
It is inconceivable for many people, but the Luftwaffe was incredibly badly lead most time during the war. It was only the periods when Erhard Milch was at the helm that real progress happened. Ernst Udet's Luftwaffe was notoriously known for its boondoggles and corruption. While it is not the central theme of the books, the biographies of Milch and the one of Göring (and also the one on the V1 & V2 rockets) written by D.Irving have a lot of anecdotes and explanations about the failing of the Luftwaffe.
Very interesting. In addition to the Werksschutz-Staffeln, Dipl.-Ing. Mehlhorn, FW Bremen, claimed some victories about enemy aircraft.
Messerschmitt had the better lobby as Focke-Wulf.
Good channel with useful content. Instant subscribe.
As always, fascinating subject and truly exellent presentation. Thank you, sir !
Actually, the two top scoring American aces of WWII flew P-38s. In addition to Richard Bong with 40 kills, there was Thomas McGuire with 38 kills.
I read the version of the Fw-187 with DB engines was even faster than the Jumo-engined version.... Great that they canned it!
They didn’t really can it. There was never an RLM requirement for it so it was just never taken up.
Your next topic: the Ta-154 'Moskito'
ua-cam.com/video/v9yoW9pOO0Y/v-deo.html
Ed . Your presentation is fact not fiction. The same cannot be said for "other" so called specialists. (Although Bismark is the exception) . Thankyou. You certainly deserve more subscribers . I'd better subscribe then ! 😂
To me, the head on view looks like the same shape as the ME-262, that shark like shape. Good video.
This was the biggest demonstration that I think Germany made in not using a design.
I have read that P-38 pilots had problems with visibility, that new Luftwaffe pilots were told to attack from below, so as to take advantage of that weakness in the aircraft.
no fighter can see underneath it. even today.
Willy designs were oriented toward simplicity and low cost. After the war his Gazelle (a light canard delta for Egypt) achieved a ceiling over 56000 ft on a Rolls Royce Orpheus (same engine on Hindustani Marut) Its best speed was 960 @ 36000 ft (mach 1.37) The Mig 15 had a 5000 lb thrust Nene, and did far less.
The Luftwaffe's antipathy towards this design is hard to fathom. It seems they had invested so heavily in the Bf-110 they could not allow any competing design which might make the Zerstroyer look bad.
The 110 made sense as a ground attack aircraft, with the 187 as a fighter.
*Please do more videos of 'paper airplanes' and 'something somebody said sometime about a plane'*
*it's very entertaining and informative to learn about 'doodles someone drew' and other gems!*
I really like this channel, and I can see it shouldn't be long before you have many more subscribers. Keep up the great work!
The concept of the Do 335 push-pull was much much superior
I wish people wouldn't keep perpetuating the myth that allied aircraft had nicknames like 'fork tailed devil', 'whispering death', 'flying porcupine' and 'whistling death' bestowed on them by axis forces. It's all propaganda that somehow got accepted as reality over the years.
It's still impressive that this thing achieved 330 miles an hour with under 700 horsepower per engine just imagine if this had one of the nastier db600 series engines this might have achieved over 400 mph
The armament was decent and one contrast I want to make to the BF 110 is the fact this didn't have the unnecessary and weight adding defensive Gunner and one might wonder that that the bf110 might not have sucked
Also your comparison to the p38 lightning is interesting because even though the US army Air Force is viewed that plane as expensive and unnecessary towards the end of the war it was still one of the handful of planes that could get into the 400 mph club as well as the fact it was well armed and at medium altitudes it was reasonably maneuverable especially for a twin engine aircraft
A twin engine fighter can and will outperform a single engine fighter so long as the additional engines are used to maintain the same power to weight ratio and wing loading is also not comprised to achieve m"Me 110" zerstoerer functions to be the same as well as other aspects such as wing loading. The Fw 187 and P-38 both matched or outperformed Me 109, Spitfire and better range. The Fw 187 simply wasn't built due to engine shortages. It probably would have been better for the Luftwaffe to favor the Fw 187 over the Me 110 since the Fw 187 was a vastly better and long range fighter of Mosquito like speed. The Me 110 night fighter role could be performed by the Ju 88C and the Fw 187 itself could carry radar and one additional crew member facing forward. Rear armament would have been no use in such an agile aircraft.
This thing looks terrifying in 80-year-old still photos. I would not have wanted to meet one in a dark alley.
I enjoyed this because it was obviously not covered much(if at all) by anyone else, but I was surprised that you didn’t mention the Mosquito, because it was by far the best plane of the war, and it was able to carry the biggest range(which included a six pounder( I think that it was this size, unless it was bigger) with the four cannons in the nose) of weaponry, as well as being incredibly fast(so fast that they lost far fewer planes per thousand sorties than any other plane in the war) too, it was also the only multi role fighter that was used for commercial flights for the BOAC airways which flew passengers from Sweden on regular flights, and they never shot down a plane on these flights........
paul allens flying heritage museum in everett, washington restored one to perfection and I saw it fly a few times up close, I mean it was flying right over our heads and off a few hundred meters. the sound of it was amazing. such an impressive plane. it still sits there 5 minutes from my house but the museum and the flying have stopped completely and there is zero information about whether the planes they have will ever fly again. they have just about every plane from the war you can imagine from all countries. they were in the process of having a true flyable me-262 when the place shut down. they rebuild the original engines and everything. they had started it up and did a taxi run and where going to fly it when covid hit. now, nothing
@@fredgarv79 I know about the 262 with original Jumo 004s, incredible. The museum was also well on the way to restoring ro flying condition, a Stuka, and so much else.
@@drstrangelove4998 yes I saw the stuka they were restoring, it was coming along nicely. when I went to the ME-262 reveal special event in 2019, they had an HE-111 hidden in the back and didn't want anybody to take photo's of it. it was in really great condition too. now, all seems lost.yet, the place is still there, the planes are still all there, just a sign that says "closed today" but we are still accepting deliveries. I also talked purely by accident to the main guy restorer head of the whole thing when I caught him outside this last spring, and I asked him about the whole thing. asked him if he was optimistic that the museum would open again and we would get to see the ME fly and he just said maybe you will get your wish, and he was always an optimist. I kicked myself afterwards for not asking if they were still working on the stuka
Personally I enjoyed your video and any video's concerning military history, warfare and equipment.
there are many items designed that were not developed due to the mindset of the planners who
really do not and did not comprehend what would be needed are required to actually win a battle
are the war you are involved in at the time.
No German ever called the P38, "the fork tailed devil".
Faster than the standard single seat fighter, powerful, heavily armed... a victim of internal german acquisition policies resulting from Goering’s preferences.
And yes, the Lockheed ‘Lightning’ proved the efficacy of an aircraft with just those characteristics... ‘way to go, Kelly Johnson.
You have filled in the parts that are missing in the more technical descriptions of this aircraft - thank you. It would very likely have made a considerable difference during the Russian campaign.
The really confusing thing is that the Germans must have known that the Bf 110 could not compete with their Bf 109's in a dogfight, so how could they expect them to deal with the latest hurricanes or spitfires? The Fw 187 appears to have an airframe capable of using more powerful engines, so it could have been updated like the 109's, Fw 190's, etc. It was well armed with 4 x mg's and 2 x 20 mm cannon, and later variants might have dropped the mg's in favour of additional 20 or 30 mm cannon. It would have cost less resources to produce than the bigger Bf 110, but the Germans were obsessed with their 'Destroyer' idea long after it failed.
I doubt they'd have changed the outcome of the Battle of Britain, but in place of the 110's they'd have made it much more difficult for the hurricanes trying to get at the bombers. With greater range than the 109's they'd also have more loiter time over England. They would also have been a real threat to Allied day-bombing raids. With the firepower of an Me 262 and plenty of loiter time, they'd have made life hell for bomber crews even after the Allies had long-range escort fighters.
Kurt Tank is such a cool name. If a tough-guy actor like Bruce Willis ever wanted a stage name that said "No shit, do not fuck with me!", they could not come up with a better name than 'Kurt Tank'. I have a theory that names are not unrelated to success. Take tennis player Tim Henman. If he was American, he'd probably be called something like 'Rock Eagleburger'. 'Tim' and 'Henman' are just NOT scary names!
Looks like the Pucarra used by Argentinians. Interesting that Rudel (and others) moved there after the war. Makes you wonder if they had a hand in the design.
First thing that came to mind, as well.
Pucara
the designer of the Pucara, Hector Eduardo Ruiz, was apprentice of Kurt Tank and Horten, Kurt Tank was on Argentina since 1947 to 1956, the pucara designs stars in 1968, the argentine factory had already some experience with twin engines small cargo planes the IA38 huanquero designed by Kurt Tank and Paul Klages
It airplanes looks like Argentina ia 58 Pucara builded in 1969. Must be they use it model to produce that airplane. Kurt Tank travel to Argentina after war.
A early version of the German mosquito type
The fw 187 would of made a ideal tank destroyer or with uts range it would if shown and vd a surprise the RAF in the battle of Britain
Perhaps this is an example of the state of German wartime production The Nazi regime failed to deal with internal rivalries and political interference and Hitler himself was content to allow this situation to continue. Albert Speer gave a very good account of this.
Ed. Have you considered a video on Axis 4 engined heavies. The three that spring to mind are the German Focke Wolfe FW200, Italy's Piaggio P.108 and the Japanese Nakajima G5N. We don't hear much about these.
Oh yes, certainly have! Will get around to them at some point :)
She's a real beauty of a plane!
It took until the end of the war for air forces to realize you need to send your fighters AHEAD of your bomber groups to engage enemy fighters and harrass ground targets so by the time the bombers show up the defenders are already a disorganized mess of fights and unable to respond to bomber attacks properly.
Fighter sweeps had been around a lot longer than that. It might have taken the Americans longer to work it out but the Germans were doing it in 1940. The British also had this thing called RDF, which made it possible to second guess the enemy tactics and either counter them or ignore them and concentrate their fighters on main force attacks.
As i understand it. Which aircraft were purchased depended on the company owners personal relationship with Goering.
You can see from this design where both the Me 410 and the Henscel 129 came from.
The Focke Wulf Fw 187 was Kurt Tank design! History proved his design work to be as good as it could be! Sounds like some German bureaucrats in the defense ministry blew it, by not developing the Fw 187!
We're lucky Tank and Heinkel weren't Nazi favorites. Their designs showed time and again that they were masters of aircraft design and aerodynamics.
@@trob1173 ~ Heinkel made the first jet fighter, the He-280, and it flew in March 41. Unfortunately Heinkel lacked funding at critical times. But, Willy Messerschmitt got funding for the Me-262. The He-280 wasn't as advance as the Me-262, with it's swept wing design, but it would have been formidable against allied prop fighters, if it had been made operational in 42 and 43, - IMO, this all my speculation, and I might be blowing smoke, but It's interesting!
Thank you for sharing :)
This is the luftwaffe's De Havilland Hornet. Lets all be grateful they never put this in service. Pretty sure the RAF and US 8th air force were quite happy never to have had to deal with it. The Argentinian FMA IA 58 Pucará is clearly a development of this aircraft.
I find some superficial similarity of the Falke and the Argentinian Puccara. Was Kurt Tank designer of both of these planes? It only had 2x20mm guns. That sounds too weak for a heavy fighter or ground attack aircraft. It was not a match for the Mosquito or 8x.50BMG aircraft of the WW2.
One of the biggest issues for the Luftwaffe was Hitler. He was so fixated in Dive Bombers that they even tried to make a 4 engine Dive Bomber, instead of a Heavy Bomber. Same with the ME262, Hitler wanted it to be a Dive Bomber instead of just a fighter which it would have excelled at with more development. Plus the money wasted on the V2, which could have been spent on better aircraft. And the ME110 was out of date by the start of the war, and the Stuka should have been junked after 1941 as too easy to shoot down.
@@WALTERBROADDUS After 40 years of listening and reading about WW2, I have found that Hitler wanted the ME262 to be a fighter bomber. And he wanted Dive Bombers due to the early success of the Stuka.
@@WALTERBROADDUS military.wikia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me-262A-2a_Sturmvogel
@@BatMan-xr8gg m.ua-cam.com/video/SDYHd1PuR5U/v-deo.html
Military Aviation History’s channel has an eye opening vid about this topic. Hitler may have been part of the decision process but he wasn’t the sole driver of what happened with the 262. History is always more complicated than it seems
@@WALTERBROADDUS Oh, nothing against staying with offensive weapons at all. If Hitler had let his Generals actually run the war, well things would have been a bit different I think. Cheers
After war it was very popular to blame Hitler or other dead people for all the errors. When it comes to the delay in the Me 262 program, at least as much blame must go to Willy Messerschmidt. Germany was in desperate need of a attack aircraft, which could seriously damage the invasion fleet despite allied air superiority. At first glance the Me 262 could fullfill the role. So Hitlers idea was not completely stupid, he just was not a technican. Problem was Messerschmidt was too coward to tell Hitler about the problems this would cause. Also Willy Messerschmidt allocated much to much development resources to Me 309, which didn't offer any advantage over the Fw 190. The Me 309 was his personal pet project. The Me 262 was a project of some young engineers and used a lot of modern technology Willy Messerschmidt was not expert in.
Don’t know if it would have been better. But doctrine and culture often wins over evidence and common sense.
Thank God those 5.0 calibre coming through the wall in your book the Desert Sniper missed Ed, we would not be reading this now otherwise. Nice read.
Thanks man. Was a close one.
All that time, effort and resources spent on the 110, 210 and 410 when this was available.
I Bet this would have been a better platform to work up a Tank Destroyer instead of the Henschel it had a Up front Canopy and I bet it could have taken a better weapons pod or Rocket pod underneath
The Me110 proved to be worthless (and Me210, and Me410), Seemed to me this was much better than the Me junk. I had heard of this and some of the details that you gave. Thank you.
No Me 110 was not worthless, it was quite successful as a light bomber/recon/ground attack/night-fighter. Over 6000 was made.
@@kirgan1000 You are right about the night fighter role (www.historynet.com/how-the-me-110-became-a-bombers-worst-nightmare.htm), but i doubt the role as any sort of bomber. You apparently did not want to try to put this into extreme maneuvers since its controls were so heavy, and a light bomber you probably want good manouverability. Suspect the FW-190 was much better at that role, and had to be lot cheaper with only a single engine. And the FW-190 could hold its own as a fighter. Apparently iME-110 was not really intended as a straight fighter, it was intended to destroy bombers, but for daylight use I suspect it would not prove to be very good at that because there were much better planes.
@@cliffordnelson8454 So you have change your postion from worthless to Me 110 was quite usefule.
You miss one thing 2 man crew, one can read the map then one is flying a big advantage over a singel crew fighter-bomber. But I agree FW-190 was a better overall, but its was also younger.
@@kirgan1000 No question about the 2 man crew, which probably a reason it could be a successful night fighter. But for fighter role, you do not the 2 man crew on other fighters. In particular the P-38, which may have been the most successful 2 engine fighter only had a single crew. Kurt Tank appears to have been the best aircraft designers of the period. Yes it is younger, but however you look at it, the FW-190 was an amazingly good design that survived some radical design changes. I do not think there is any aircraft or the era that could be shown to be a great a design. Yes other aircraft has advantages over the FW-190 in specific roles.
@@kirgan1000 Please do not exaggerate or put words in my mouth. It sucked at what it was designed for. And sucked compared to the P-38 an d FW-187. As I said other twin engine fighters did not have 2 man crew, which indicates that for the mission 2 man crew was not a good. Just was lucky there came to be a mission that it was better at than available platforms. Obviously the JU=88 could do the task, but may have been overkill. JU-88 had a much more successful career.
I have a set of handbooks that cover all these planes from every combatant. Have read about these since the 1970s
Same here and I have noticed how info changes. Meaning anything positive about Germany is nixed and when allieds admit Germans had several better planes it get a buried.
Most edifying. Thanks for posting. Liked and shared.
what a beauty of a fighter
You make a very good point about the Luftwaffe misapplying the lessons they learned from the Spanish Civil War and assuming that fighting the Brits and Russians would be like fighting Spanish peasants
The FW 187 looks remarkably like the Me 410 and Henschel 129, don't you think? Different beasts to be sure. Another of those 'what-ifs"... like the De Havilland Hornet, which the FW 187 also doesn't look too dissimilar to.
The cockpit and nose area looks very similar to the Hs129!
Wasn’t the Hornet too late for the war?
In highest scoring ace in the USAAF was in the Pacific, the P38 was tested at Farnborough against other fighters and was found to be slower then the Me109 and Fw190, in 1944 the P38 was withdrawn from fighter duties in the European theatre and send to the Pacific. However, the P38 was completed to be used in the photo reconnaissance role
The P-38 tested by the British was a deliberately bastardised version supplied by the US. That's why it fell short against other types, and subsequently rejected for service by the RAF. I think it was supplied with non turbocharged Allison engines. A conversion with Merlins would have been intriguing!
@@christopherkroussoratsky2014 why would they send a P38 with 'bastardised' engines? The even before the tests P38 was being replaced by the P51 Mustang
@@andyc3088 Because the US didnt want the Turbochargers falling into the hands of the Germans at that time. German Turbocharger technology was not as advanced at that point.
@@christopherkroussoratsky2014 the tests your referring to happened in 1942, the test I'm talking about happened in 1944. The order for the RAF was cancelled because if faults find with the aircraft and only 3 were delivered to the RAF who returned to the US by 1943.
Those engines are huge looks so cool
Maybe it was my childhood (the 50s) but we always heard "fork-tailed devil".
And then the British, regardless of the naysayers in the RAF, went ahead and developed their DH 95 Mosquito, which not only ended up totally frustrating the German military, but it also kicked their asses until May 1945.
Ed: great video but please do on on the Hs126 Panzerknacker.
Kurt can’t have been in the purple-circle yet. They probably couldn’t ignore the FW-190 though. Imagine this with the DB-601 or similar.
There is something very interesting going on with the image at around the 2:15 mark. Note the propellers. The curvature of them denotes the image was taken by a camera with a rolling exposure! I thought that was only reserved for digital cameras. How on earth can you take a rolling exposure with a traditional film camera?
They were experimenting with rubber props :)
I don't know what type of shutters were used on still cameras around WW2 time. However, I do know that prior to the age of digital cameras, one common 35mm SLR shutter used was a fabric cloth type curtain shutter where an open portion was rolled across the film. For example, this was common on Olympus SLRs of many years ago. I seem to recall that early 35mm compact cameras tended to use leaf shutters. However, perhaps the picture was taken on a medium format camera with a rolling curtain type shutter?
I noticed it looked odd also
Fittted with proper engines, the 187 would have been a pefect bomber destroyer, certainly better than te Me 210/410