The Messerschmitt Me 264; Nazi Superfortress
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- It is often overlooked that Hitler fully expected to have to wage war on the Unites States and had been actively planning for that.
And for an ambitious aircraft designer like Willy Messerschmitt, this presented an opportunity like no other.
Unfortunately, because of personal feuds and his company's capabilities, he was never quite able to make it beyond a single prototype.
Sources for this video can be found at the relevant article on:
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/ ednash
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For everyone outraged at blocking out the swastika, I refer you to Ian's video for explanation:
ua-cam.com/video/of8okKZg7UA/v-deo.html
I understand it may make some people feel this is hiding history. On the other hand , what Hitler did was so horrific that it will take many many years to see a swastika on many public channels. Like maybe 1000. And you are not limiting it, that's the UA-cam policy. Seeing German ww2 planes at air shows (in America) with that on the tail does not offend me as these are living museum pieces and do the opposite of erasing history. It's a tricky thing these days. Great video.
Self censorship is still censorship.
@@ThatZenoGuy I would love a link or 2 to some of your stunning and brave uncensored UA-cam videos, books, pamphlets, any damn thing at all Or as I suspect all you really got is anonymous post on other people's channels
@@stevewhite3424
Self censorship is still censorship.
None of my videos featured censorship, although I removed them when they disabled the dislike function.
Why bend to UA-cam's rules? Is petty and sad.
Looks like a swastika at 6:00
I will say this, the ME 264 was a magnificent looking aircraft.
Yeah it has some evil looks of Star Wars, the cockpit from inside looks like the Millenium Falcon :-)
The German military are a God send for modellers !
@@richardbradley2335 And for games ;)
@@richardbradley2335 I can't see how you'd model for that
I mean, how could you hold onto four mid mounted engines whilst you held your arms outstreched?
Frankly, I find that claim unconvincing 🙄
A video on early in-flight refueling would be cool!
Look up the Question mark ❓
Literally a dude walking wing to wing with a gas can!
@@BHuang92 The RAF supposedly had a contingency plan for the atomic bombs where if the B29 Silverplate modifications were unsuccessful, RAF Lincolns would have done the job, but requiring in flight refuelling. Indeed with hindsight, in flight refuelling in WW2 seems an obvious idea, difficult but more practical that developing very long range aircraft.
@@PassportToPimlico Not really. Felton pretty much made that up.
ua-cam.com/video/gKB-oqdoduw/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Greg%27sAirplanesandAutomobiles
I was wondering if in-flight refueling was ever used in actual service, not experimentally, on gasoline powered aircraft. I don't think the US ever did, did Russia? As difficult as the process is, doing it with gasoline would add so much hazard!
Ed and Rex are the best aviation utubers around. Lively narrative and always interesting aircraft discussed. Top job. Bravo.
who ? never heard of either of these guys 😐😐😐😐
@@mikepette4422 You're missing a treat then. Between them, Ed and Rex have two brilliant channels with the histories of a good couple of dozen weird, obscure and/or forgotten aircraft covered. At risk of plugging a rival here, the other channel is called 'Rex's Hangar'.
Then you don't know the joy of hearing the words, "Greetings, this is Greg "
@@johngregory4801 Yes, I would add Greg to the list.
@@mikepette4422 If you just watched this you just watched on of Ed's
WAY better than Rex's Hanger 'tho Rex does turn out some interesting stuff
Mark Felton Productions does some cracking material too
(OK Ed & mark are the top guys in truth)
Hitler declaring war on America is a little bit different from what many people think. Because of America's involvement with supplying Britain with military equipment and clashes between the USN and Germany's U-Boats Hitler believed that America and Germany were already in an undeclared war. So as far as he was concerned all he was doing was formalising something which already existed.
Germany certainly had a confused relationship as far as long range bombers were concerned. They did not think they were needed in Europe because for them the Luftwaffe was there to serve the German army. But they then did need them for bombing the US. They then had to cobble together the Mistel because they belatedly realised there were targets in Russia they needed to bomb but they did not have the long range bombers they needed to carry out the task. Meanwhile Britain and America where building long range bombers because both countries knew that they were needed to reach targets which were well beyond their own borders.
While that's a nice idea about Hitler's motives for declaring war on the US, it's dead wrong. The answer to this matter lies in Hitler's personality and his experience of 4 years in the trenches of northern France. But to understand that, you would have to read a book that deals with Hitler's career and takes a closer look at his personality. The book, like its main character, is kept rather simple and short. It can easily be read in 2 hours. I'll be happy to give you the title and author if you're really interested. Did I mention that the book received international attention and critical acclaim when it came out in 1978?
Hitler was only too keenly aware of the threat of the US and he saw war as inevitable. Remember that the declaration of war is made exactly when total Soviet collapse is considered imminent and Moscow to fall in the next few weeks, if not days. The full weight of the Soviet counter-offensive has yet to be understood at this point.
He declared war because he believed it would galvanize the Japanese, strengthen the alliance and put the Americans before a problem, and force them to start splitting their resources between two fronts. Remember this is when Hitler still believes a Soviet defeat is imminent and an Anglo-US invasion would come in the summer of 1942 at the very earliest, but more likely in 1943, giving Hitler ample time to move his focus on England and have a fully ready army to stop an invasion.
It shows that things can change incredibly quickly in wartime and today's plan is obsolete by tomorrow.
@@rotwang2000 This is a complete misjudgment of the situation. But that can easily happen if one has not dealt with the personality traits of Adolf Hitler. The exact opposite is actually the case. Hitler thought he lost the war in the Battle of Moscow. And that, paradoxically, is the reason for his declaration of war on the US. Because then he could unabashedly finally get to work on eliminating the enemies of the Reich that he had "recognized" and so the drama for the Jews and others finally took its course. Hitler wanted an eternal place in the history books at all costs. And he managed that unbearably, even if he "only" made it to the bronze medal of the greatest mass murderers of all time (cynicism off)...
And to look again at the American side... With its policy of armed neutrality, FDR had constantly tried to create a casus belli. But the Germans did not allow themselves to be provoked after the fall of 1940. Because it is also clear that no majority could be mobilized in the USA for entering the war. The November '40 election made that perfectly clear. And let's not forget that the US Constitution allows only Congress to declare war, not the President. That limited FDR's options, quite a bit...
german doctrine was tactical support while britain and usa had strategic bombing doctrine. than germany tried to change doctrine somewhat but far too late. so no really confused just different doctrine at start of war.
Big blue, Yepp correct, many people don’t know this. But it’s also true hitler believed the usa were weak because democracy and a mixed race
German requirement that all bombers being able to dive bomb, meant that they were never going to get a four engine bomber into production.
We often forget history is "reinterpreted" by the victors. The irony for "evil Germany" is that per internal documents, German leadership did not believe in bombing civilian targets over strategic military targets, as they found it ineffective to a quick victory and wished to rule over areas they conquered or get to sue for peace, something indiscriminate inaccurate bombing of civilian centers couldn't achieve. It wasn't until public outcry for retaliation from British bombing attacks on German cities that their hand was forced, but that's actually the main reason their thought was that bombers should be pinpoint accurate only (something at the time only achievable with dive bombing).
@@BoopSnoot terror bombings not considered by Hitler and company? How gullible are you?
@@johnhallett5846 Correct, the leadership when they were preemptively designing their military industrial machine did not see value in large level bombing because its lack of accuracy would only be viable for civilian center targeting. Instead, they wanted only small and medium precision bombers for strategic targets. Instead they wanted a "lightning war" in which they could conquer with minimal damage to infrastructure and low resentment from the civilian population so that there would be less resistance and higher productivity. For example when they marched on Paris the troops had to be in immaculate appearance and on best behavior in order to win the respect of the French. This is in contrast with say the Red Army's actions in Germany that were intentionally cruel or the Japanese invasion of China which was R&P all the way.
@@BoopSnoot Kind of amusing that they thought invading a country, terrorizing its citizens afterwords, robbing and plundering them; and taking many as slaves for war factories was a good way to do all that.
This is a very good video. The author without getting too bogged down in detail clearly explained the politics and egos of the people involved at RLM, hilter, and Messerschimitt.
Quite, Quite...Oswald
The politics behind the scene of Nazi era weapons production is far more fascinating than the technical description.
Don't forget that the B-29 program suffered from more than its fair share of problems due to rushed development and production. Twice a week I ride my bike past the spot where the first prototype fatally crashed and burned. Engine fires would be a frequent problem until the end of the War, with the introduction of fuel injected engines. One of the B-29 prototypes was re-engined with coupled Allison V-3420 24 cylinder engines as an alternative powerplant in case the USAAF deemed the Wright R-3350 engines too unreliable.
Always a problem especially in ww2 aviation. A lot of failed airplanes because of engines that never produced the amount of power they should have.
A fitting video for me fo watch today as I was outside when a B-29 departing the EAA Oshkosh Airshow flew right over my head.
Another terrific piece of work Ed. Thank you, for a terrifically researched and produced video.
Alex Jones needs money, so give it to him
Always fun my good man. You did fail to mention that the laws of physics seem to work differently with German prototypes than with American aircraft. In this case, the me264 and the B29 weighed almost exactly the same with virtually the same top speed. The Me 264 however had a far greater range (9300mi vs 5600) with a heavier bombload (13,200 lbs versus 12,000lbs ) and heavier armament, while the B29 had a total horsepower of 8800 the ME 264 could only produce 6800. Therefore it is obvious that the German aircraft always had the wind behind them, their avgas and aluminium were lighter and the pilots were aided by flapping their arms.
I think the same German designers were sent to the USSR and then worked for World of Warplanes and War Thunder... possibly.
it seems me 264 had much smaller body and bigger wings. at least from pictures it looks like that. also video says 3000kg bomb load
The longest piston flight in history was 5350mi. People working on this bomber were con men.
@@madjoe8622 The longest piston flight? What about Rutan Voyager?
Nope, He 116 30 June 1938, covering 9,942 km (6,178 mi)
This channel, and every video on it, have been outstanding right out of the gate.
The 264 did look remarkably similar to the B-29 Super fortress in the nose fuselage area.
I'm not sure but I think that's the German trademark glass nose
The Superfortress project was one of the few examples where the power plant gave the production staff fits for a very long time.
One of the few SUCCESSFUL projects. There were many designs that were killed by delayed availability or inadequate performance from their selected engine, particularly early jet engines. The aircraft manufacturers simply cut their losses by moving on to the next project. There was no next project for Boeing or Consolidated, which shared the same engine, until a plane was operational. The power requirement for the B-29 or B-32 meant a new design was needed and the engine was the source of the most obvious developmental problems.
ONE OF THE MANY read some aeronautical history.
@@Hi11is I'm not sure how many people realize how underpowered most WW2 aircraft were.
Powered gliders.@@PappyGunn
True, because, the Wright R-3350 Duplex Cyclone was rushed into mass production, before all of the initial testing was completed, and the Army Air Force was caught off guard in the CBI Theatre when the 3350 started showing all kinds of problems, related to the climate in that part of the world. The biggest issue came from the use of magnesium valves, which, when breaking, caused very intense engine fires, which is what brought down the #1:XB-29.
Always good stuff Ed.
The ins and outs of Luftwaffe procurement are legendary - total inefficient mess. Milch was the only sane person involved.
Thank God.
Milch always had it in for Messerschmidt which might have been justified but effected Germanys largest fighter manufacturer throughout the war.
It's like that with the german military to this very day.
The Bundeswehr recently made public that it wants to buy 107.000 new padlocks. Totally ordinary padlocks. Nothing special.
The official requirements for the locks is written down on... hold your breath.... 200 pages! I kid you not! 200 pages of specifications for effing padlocks!
Now imagine what happens if the Bundeswehr wants to buy a new tank...
Milch was also vindictive and personal, his personal fights with Messerschmitt also screwed up the Reich. He may have wanted the best but he also messed up. Griehls "Luftwaffe over Amerika"
Actually Milch was a backstabbing sycophant of Hitler and Goehring who hated Messerschmidt and anyone else who competed with him for power and position. He was a smart psychopath with little understanding of technology, like most of the big shots in the Hitler administration.
@@vibeslide I would match that any day against Canadian procurement. Ten years into looking for a replacement pistol (a pistol!), a manufacturer complained and a judge set this back to square one. That was a couple of years ago. Still no pistol.
Never heard of it mate. Thanks for posting. From the old Aussie.
Overlooked is that from 1940-41 the USN and Germany fought a progressively viscous naval war in the Atlantic. With serious losses on both sides. A formal war was only a matter of time
Viscous war? Were they dropping sticky bombs then?
@@nicholasbell9017 ha ha ha, you made me look.
It still staggers my mind that the B-29 program cost more than the Manhattan Project. Which still makes me wonder how much the B-36 program cost, since it was developed mostly in parallel with the B-29 and didn't benefit from developments of the latter program.
Well, the Manhattan project produced three bombs. The B-29 project produced thousands of bombers and I'm pretty sure they included the cost of building the B-29's bases in those figures in order to get the factoid they wanted.
It's like the figure they give for the cost of the F-35 being over a trillion dollars. That's a figure that includes all operational, maintenance, crew,upgrades and everything to fly all the F-35s for their entire projected 50 year lifespan.
@@Mishn0 …. The immediate Manhattan Project produced a few nuclear bombs. However it created the technology that created tens of thousands of them. As well as many spin off technologies
@@Idahoguy10157 And Boeing went on to build B-50s, B-47s and B-52s, not to mention all the airliner and tanker family using the technology and infrastructure made for the B-29. It's still a weak comparison fluffed up for a factoid.
@@Mishn0 … i’m curious, is that a complaint?
@@Idahoguy10157 A mild one. I put manufactured factoids and click bait video titles in the same category. I'd rather people just used objective facts instead of fluffing stuff up or outright inventing it.
2nd key fact. German and American naval vessels had already been firing at each other prior to the war declaration. The Americans had already been supplying forces not just equipment to support the British against the USA. The declaration of war just made it easier for the USA.
The USS Reuben James was sunk by a U-boat in October of '41, prior to Germany's declaration. Roosevelt had authorized "aggressive" convoy escort tactics that allowed the US to fire on U-boats before they were fired on themselves.
"support the British against the USA" ?
Pipe dream designs are what inspires the imagination, and I think that makes them very special.
Great video - very informative. Beautiful looking airframe.
Ed, I like your style and love your videos. Keep them coming!
Very well done! Great documentary!
The interior of the cockpit reminds me strongly of the gun turrets in the Millennium Falcon...😁
I think they were based on the B-29:
@@oxcart4172 oh, for sure. But think those late war cockpits all tended to look alike very much in the race for streamlining.
Great photos within the video!!!!! Thank you!
It would be interesting to look at the heavy sea planes of B&V in this period, they do seem interesting.
When the Russians got hold of a B29 they were astonished at it's complexity an scale. The story of that development would also be very interesting.
The TU-4.
When the Soviets completely reversed engineered a single B-29; right down to each individual bolt, the resulting aircraft was the first truly successful long range heavy bomber for their air force.
It's easy to understand Hitler's desire for an American bomber. Roosevelt was doing everything he could legally do to help Britain. It had reached the point where American destroyers were escorting convoys to the middle of the Atlantic. Both Britain and Russia might have been on their last legs without "lend/lease", before Japan brought America into the as a participant.
Of course, it was Hitler's total lack of understanding of the logistics of fighting a war thousands of miles across oceans and the inability of German industry to support such an endeavor, to ever make an American Bomber a reality.
The trigger for Me 264 development was the US lend lease program which began almost a year before the official declaration of war. In lend least the US "lent" the UK weapons return for the lease of some insignificant Caribbean royal navy bases. If the weapons lent were destroyed in combat there was no debt recorded but they had to be returned or destroyed at the end of the war. Beginning 5.5 months before the declaration of war the US started "neutrality patrols' which was basically the USN escorting British convoys half way across the Atlantic for hand over to the Royal Navy. The USAAF also had ultra long range bombers such as the Douglas XB-19, Boeing XB-15 and even Convair B-36 Peacemaker prior to the Me 264 launch. When Hitler declared war on the USA the day after the Peal Harbour attack it wasn't without reason. He might have avoided it and forced the USA to declare war.
And an honorable mention to General Weaver of the "Ural Bomber" concept. General Weaver's untimely death in the late 1930's took the only advocate of strategic bombing out of the Luftwaffe high command. Point being had the German's started with that aim a development similar to that of the Boeing B17 / B29 could have happened. Who cares. Great video.
Yoda 5...really?
@@NormAppleton I was confused by "General Weaver" as well. Generalleutnant Walter Wever however...
My dad was involved in the British invasion of Iceland to deny it to Germany, as they considered it theirs as they occupied Denmark who directly ruled Iceland at the time. Had the German invaded Iceland, their sub bases would have slaughtered the convoys and lengthened the war, as well as made the US vulnerable.
Only until a bunch of battleships surrounded the island and pounded the U-boat infrastructure to rubble. Germany couldn't have defended Iceland or the Azores since there's no way they could support a sizable air presence there and didn't have near the navy to keep the US and British fleets away.
But occupying (can't really call it invading) Iceland did prevent the Icelanders from the potential of enduring that destruction.
I don't think Germany actually expected to take Iceland for that very reason, but it was mentioned in plans as all contingencies should be.
germany already had bases in france so they were at nice location. what germany lacked was much bigger submarine fleet at start of war when allies had big problems with convoy defense. later on big german fleet could not do much because of new weapons used by allies and iceland bases would not change that very much.
@@Mishn0 Don't believe War Thunder, ever, Germany had the most effective air force in the world in 1940, and as no air cover could reach Iceland with fighter escort except from Norway's northern bases AND America did not join the war for another 2 years, they would be of no help, so like the Repulse and Prince of Wales, undefended Battleships are useless against aircraft. No significant carrier force was in the Atlantic, America being only worried about it's Pacific "Empire". If Hitler had been decisive it could have put Britain in a position of great difficulty prior to Barbarossa, which was the largest factor affecting the outcome of the war and holding Iceland proved pivotal for the British suppling Stalin throughout the conflict. What if is easy with 20/20 hindsight not available when the shit if hitting the fan and flying your way.
@@michaelperry4308Germany had arguably the most effective air force on the continent. Supporting an air detachment on Iceland would have been impossible for them. Allied air cover could reach Iceland in the form of carrier aircraft that the fuelless Luftwaffe would have been impotent against. Then there's the battleship guns.
I've never played War Thunder.
@@Mishn0 There was NO allied air cover until Dec 1941, the yanks were not at war with Germany and had no fighters with enough range until the P51D, Without the preventive invasion it was a risk to the convoys.
The wing being mounted high up on the fuselage seems to have saved the engines and props from damage, in that crash landing, going by that image.
You can see that, at the least, the inboard props touched terrain. "Sudden stoppage" requires a complete engine teardown and inspection. It doesn't take much to cause internal engine damage.
A really interesting and a excellent presentation sir. I had never come across this aircraft before it looks a lot like a 'super fortress',. Great stuff, thank you.
Thank you for the very informative video. How about doing one on ME-264's main competitor the TA-400?
It does look interesting.
Six turning, two burning!
@@sivalon1 the twin prop 177 with the linked engines, one turning two burning!!☺.
If any aircraft needed contra rotating props then this was it.
Excellent history lecture!!!
It's weird to be thankful for in fighting in the nazi party, history would have been very different had everyone involved agreed and resources allocated.
Not as bad as the Japanese with their military infighting........
no... maybe it would last few more months but germany could really not win. simply not enought resources and production
Not weird, "a house divided against itself cannot stand" after all
First class video and coverage. Thank you
With some better engines and loaded up with some Hs 293 it would have probably made for an exellent maritime patrol aircraft as well.
Excellent video. Lot's of previous ly unknown stuff for me. Thanks a lot.
The Me 264 was never planned as a strategic bomber, like the B 29. Under Ernst Udet, it was to be able to reach New York to carry out individual bombing, jamming raids. Erhard Milch canceled the idea and the whole Me 264 project. It was the Luftwaffe that saw the Me 264 as an armed long-distance reconnaissance aircraft for the Atlantic War and insisted on developing the project further. It would have become a replacement for the outdated Focke-Wulf Fw 200. But the resources of the German Reich were no longer sufficient for this project.
I don't hink Germany ever had strategic bombing as part of their doctrine.
As usual, great stuff!
Ed, please stop censoring the swastika - these are great videos, and history is a great teacher - it must never be censored - to do so, waters down or worse still, alters the lessons it teaches. There are many other videos on this platform which display everything.
I am guessing it wasn't Ed, as I saw it too on the pic of Milch, but not anywhere else unless I've missed something - I am guessing it was a stock image he reused. I was tempted to comment on it, and how many other swastikas were in the same image that had not been censored.
Yourube are twitchy about it. I uploaded the video on monday but it got red flagged.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters …….Seems to be that they are capricious about this, and ill informed. They don’t seem to mind displaying the hammer and sickle, yet Stalin was the greatest mass murderer in history.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters thanks Ed... Not much you can do about it really. Hands up anyone who likes the YT algorithms?
Your delivery made me subscribe, real easy to listen to.
If I remember correctly, a B29 was flown to England with the express purpose of it being photographed by German reconnaissance, which it was. Knowing of the B29 could have possibly been why the Germans kept pursuing the America bomber.
Can't be, the B29 first flew in September 1942, the ME264 first flew in December of 1942. The B29 you are talking about flew in 1944 to the UK.
Very interesting presentation on an aircraft of which I had no knowledge. Another example of the good fortune for the world that Hitler kept meddling in matters on which he had no knowledge.
Great video thanks for doing such a great highly detailed job. They also claimed the JU-390 could make it to the U.S. and back. I have always liked the ME-264 for some reason probably the large greenhouse cockpit since my other favorites are the JU-188, JU-388, FW-189, HE-177, HE-277 and the DO-217K. I also love the FW-200c Condor it reminds me of a Huge DC-3 with 4 engines or a DC-6 with a tail wheel. Lol
Realistically only the Me 264 could make it from Europe to USA and back. The early versions with Jumo 211J 1450hp engine lacked the power to get enough fuel and armament of the ground unless with RATO or long sealed runways but progressively more powerful engines became available such as the 1800jp BMW 801E and finally the 2250 hp DB603L and DB603H. These engines were entering service on the Ta 152C.
The Ju 390 lacked the range but there are claims of an extended version. Furthermore Germans has successfully drogue refuelling tests between Ju 252 and Ju 290 in 1943. Mentioned in Griehls Luftwaffe over America. So by late 1944 the Germans had the engines they needed but the program had been abandoned due to bombing.
Mr Nash i'm curreently sick as a dog with you name it, and trust me that so many of your vids get me purring like a kitten. Thanks mate.
Ive been told the high octain fuels created by the allies is what allowed us to create more powerful engines than the Germans which makes sense. The German synfuels are known to be highly linear paraffinic and thus low octane.
And not to forget that American companies supplied octane boosters to Germany throughout the war.
@@alanfunt4013 Yep! Which makes them traitors in my eyes. In Germany such people would have been marched to the "concert camp"...
You are right the DB 601 was larger than the RR Merlin by 10 liters but did not produce the amount of horse power the Merlin did.
It’s frightening to think of what the Germans would have accomplished if they had really possessed the efficiency and cohesiveness everyone thought they had. Internal rivalries did more harm than the anti-Nazi Resistance.
To declare war on the US while you’re army is freezing to death in Russia shows a lack clear thinking.
Absolutely. Hitler and his all or nothing thinking . The war was lost the moment he desired to invade the USSR . Classic case of the old adage . Never Underestimate Your Enemy !
This video was enjoyable, and very fascinating. Plus, from I can take away from this video, is that the Amerika Bomber program was, in reality, beyond the scope of Germany's aviation industry's production capabilities, Ed.
Given the quality and quantity of American fighters by 1944, I suspect that any bombing missions after the first one might have been a one-way trip.
Not only that, but allied experience showed that it was difficult enough to get a damaged bomber back to Britain from Germany. Imagine you're the pilot of a damaged ME 264 over the eastern USA. Do you fancy a possible ditching in the north Atlantic ? Me neither !
Good example. Optimism plagued Germany. Will power, however intelligently employed, doesn't replace engineering and production capacity. Pure pipe dreams and psychopathic thinking.
They would probably head south and ditch in friendly Mexico.
@@mikedx2706 Imagine p47's following radar just east of New York over the Atlantic. This is the Battle of Britain with the Luftwaffe 5000 mies west of London. Then chased down the entire east coast to Mexico?
Absolute madness.
@@mikedx2706 It's a long way. Infinitely preferably to being in the water but I doubt they'd make it. The first time anyone tried that route would just alert the Americans to it and a few squadrons of fighters stationed along the way would cut it off. They probably wouldn't even need to be front line fighters.
@@mikedx2706
It is 2,000 miles from New York to Mexico. Not exactly s walk in the park.
If memory serves me correct they already had an airplane. It was called the FW200 condor and it made a flight over the atlantic and over new york.
Getting there and returning are very different things
The Amerika bomber became an interest to me as veterans of our squadron, the 34th Photo Reconnaissance Squadron, shared photos of what they called "casement" bombs strewn about the airfield at Chateaudun, France. Further research suggested these were test articles for munitions for the Amerika bomber -- rumoured to have been planned to use the airfield before the Allies took it in 1944. I believe these were in fact the test casings for dirty bombs to be loaded with radioactive silica and detonated over large metropolitan cities. The bomber which I believe these were to be carried was the Sanger suborbital bomber for which an interesting book was written many years ago. A topic that may be of interest to you? Cheers!
Excellent Presentation Sir.
Looking at the wings, I might say German B-24 perhaps? Good video as always Ed.
Thanks for this! Was interesting and made perfect company whilst eating my dinner :)
At around the same time (1941) the U.S.A.A.F. also became interested in developing an inter-continental bomber. The idea was that, if Britain became overrun by the Germans, the U.S.A.A.F. would still be able to attack Germany from bases located in the U.S. The result was the Consolidated B-36. However, Britain was not defeated by Germany and Britain remained available as a bomber base from which bombers could strike Germany. Consequently, Consolidated was directed to concentrate upon manufacturing large numbers of B-24 Liberators and developing the B-32 as a back-up in case the Boeing B-29 did not work out. Nevertheless, the B-36 project was never actually cancelled. instead, development simply continued under reduced priority. The first XB-36 did not fly until after WW-II ended, and it the bomber was adopted during the late 1940s as the USAF Strategic Air Command's first intercontinental nuclear strategic bomber.
The beginning of the end began with his not Knocking out the British before attacking the Russians!
Literally how they wouldn’t have been able to secure a landing and then keep it supplied even if we assume the raf is completely combat ineffective the British navy was just to large to deal with it would’ve just been a Stalingrad sized disaster on the English isles
At the same time, the United States started development on a "Deutschland" bomber in case Britain fell, the Convair B-36.
The US had the XB-15 and YB-19 before then. These could already achieve a bombing raid on Germany in 1939 if flown from say Labrador Canada at a time the R-1830 was only 900-1000hp. The B-36 proably started before the Me 264 as it was an outgrowth of the B-15 and B19 programs.
@@williamzk9083 basically the US would have the excuse to mass-produce the XB-15 and XB-19 if that did happened.
@@merafirewing6591 The Germans only became interested in a so called “Amerika Bomber” after the US signed the lend lease act, which supplied 45% of British Weapons for free in return for U.S. Navy Access to Royal Navy bases in the Caribbean in addition the U.S. started “Neutrality Patrols” which escorted British convoys half way across the Atlantic to fight off u/boats. This is what triggered the Me 264. B15 and B19 were much earlier aircraft.
In terms of procurement "plans" Germany was in chaos by 1943. Conflicting requirements led to the Me 262 being delayed by at least two years.
Use 6 for heavy take off use 4 to save fuel use 2 after unload bombs and you can circle the globe. They could actually drop 2 engines to lighten the plane to make it back.
The tail cone looks weak. Not substantial enough. The air crew would be nervous flying in heavy turbulence over a stormy Atlantic. The tail group may break off.
The aviation engineers see this right a way. The main wing is ultra similar with B-29 not only in shape, but also in cross section profile..... This is very meaningful.
JU-88 was actually design and wind tunnel tested in USA (scaled model).
Wehrmacht was using OPEL Blitz - GM.
There R way more connections between Germany and US - especially in finances....
I heard that ITT, the American company, owned part or all of focke wulf so was effectively supplying both sides. Iirc the story goes that they got some compensation after the war for the damage that American bombers caused to the FW factories.
@@crabby7668 I won't be surprised. Jan Karski courier who personally was seeing Roosevelt was insisting to bomb Auschwitz-Birkenau labor-death camp because laberforce was used in I.G.Farben factories produceing explosives and other Germany war effort products. Roosevelt denied this request due to pseudo humanitarian reasons...
Karski response was to do it beside because people are killed on mass industrial scale...
Still Roosevelt refused.
Today we know that it was US finances involved in I.G.Farben....
Great job mate.Did'nt know this aircraft existed👍😃
Hey Ed, Always Like & Thanks For Another Good One!
The general appearance seems similar to the Constellation airliner used after the war.
Very thankful for the cool
Well done videos
Watching up here in Canada
Keep it going keep well
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Did you update your logo? Looks spanking! The Me 264 however fictional its form is, is one of my favorite aircraft in War Thunder. Also as that game has just recently introduced the Bv 155 in an event you may want to capitalize on interest in that plane, especially seeing as one prototype still survives.
Good Work👌👍💪
I'd imagine that had it gotten into production, the Luftwaffe may have decided on deleting defensive armaments altogether, and made it a V-1 carrier. The idea would have been to get within 150 miles of the US coast near Boston or New York, launched the missiles, then turned for home. Since the Germans never shied away from indiscriminately bombing something this would have been right up their ally.
-When the Luftwaffe launched V1 bombs from Heinkel He 111 against Britain they did so by having a pathfinder (using EGON-II blind bombing system) or u-boat drop a Schwann-See radio buoy. These had been developed to track convoys. The He 111 homed onto the buoy and launched the V1 as it passed over head. The same technique could have been used against the US coast. I think the buoy could have or may have had a radar transponder added for the V1 to at least calculate its range from. Two could have been used to triangulate on to a target. There was also a glide bomb called the BV-246 with a 160km range that might be more suitable. It could also use radar and radio homing to attack radar and radio navigation sites (Code name Radischien ie Raddish). The V1 was also being developed with a turbojet the Porche 109-005 which nearly doubled range and whose lower vibration improved accuracy. There was also an infrared homing system intended for use against blast furnaces and power stations.
-The Germans actually didn't indiscriminately bomb much. They didn't have the bomber force to afford that and they certainly had accurate bombsight and other means to aim bombs. The myth of German indiscriminate bombing comes from the UK need to justify their own "Area Bombardment Directive" which did target populations and to propagandize the USA into war ASAP. Errors in bombing did occur and often they they did target a large area round a factory to ensure destruction. They however never targeted the civilian population as Britain did with the Area bombardment directive. When the night time Blitz occurred against Britain the Germans were using x-geraete system which was more accurate than the Norden and as accurate as the legendary oboe.
The V1 (properly called the Fiesler Fi 103) and V2 (properly called the EMW A4) both had more advanced guidance systems in development that would have made them as accurate as level bombing Ewald-II for the V1 (it used trilateration) and SG-66 (it was a 3 axis inertial navigation system for V2) and vollzirkel a bream riding system for the V2. The reason Goebells had them called vergeltungs (reprisal weapons) was because they German hoped to cause as much damage to British cities as Britain had done to Germany's so that a negotiation to the cessation of bombing could be negotiated.
There were rational explanations to Rotterdam burning (the city had surrendered at the last minute but due to daylight savings mistake the bombers had taken of an only half responded to recall efforts. Guernica was likely an attack on cross roads and bridges because that's what Luftwaffe recon pilots (the only survivors of the war) said they were sent to photograph and because Republican forces were retreating across the city.
'Yeah, sure, why not!' I spat my coffee out at that! :D
I understand the Luftwaffe suspected that the new B-29 would be also used against Germany.
That would explain the resources put into the TA-152
It was a fantastic aircraft but the resources would have been better spent elsewhere
We did send a few B-29s to England to fly over Western Europe and give that impression.
They were lucky that they surrendered when they did, or else they were going to get some of the B-29's specially outfitted with the extra large bomb-bay doors flying overhead.... Just like Japan experienced.
@@straybullitt you do realise that there were a several millions of slave labourers from the occupied territories working in germany?
but killing countless of innocents never stopped the usa now did it?
@@janvanruth3485
Innocents die in war regardless of how it is fought.
The key is, you want more of their "innocents" to die, than yoirs....
Nice looking airplane. Great video.
Ed, my respects for the actual history that goes into your videos. I think, and standby, that the course and outcome of the second World War was decided on 11 December 1941. I have a tiny quibble as to where fuel would have come from with Hitler having six engine Amerika , having not taken the caucaus, bombers but if is the biggest word in History. Many believe that the Manhattan Project was the most expensive US Project of the war In fact it was the much plagued B-29. The improved engines of the B-50 solved that and immedialy became superflouous. Other channels just make it up. Keep doing what you are doing mate!
Po
Re-engineeringing... Brilliant! Great video Ed.
The ME264 was a clean looking design with that high wing and nose landing gear. I think the double vertical tails on the tips of the uorizontal stabilzer would have led to constant corrections in the direction of flight. That would have been extremely taxing for the flightcrew over the Atlantic. A tail similar to the B17 would have bsen more practical.
Worked for the lancaster
@@garynew9637 and the Halifax, B24 Liberator, and many lighter aircraft form all sides.
Enjoyed the vid! 👍🏻
The reason why they probably weren’t used for legitimate bombing missions is because the pilots immediately at the start of the mission climbed to 90,000,000ft and stayed there for eternity
Any other War Thunder players will know 😂
yes. we know :)
NO ONE else has the feintest clue
Super funny and true!!! 😂🤣😆😳👍
That was great Ed ! I didn't know those planes had been built. I thought all the America Bombers only existed on paper.
its pretty fuzzy... some even suggest that ju390 i believe flew on edge and saw new york some say thats rubbish. hard to say with so many contradicting info on those and other german projects.
@@jebise1126 The fact that the Germans were easily able to do this was already shown by the FW 200 as a passenger aircraft in 1938...
I wonder if specialized U boats, adapted with hangars onboard like the Japanese I-400 subs, would've done a better job at striking the East Coast of the US? maybe load up some V2s or a dozen Buzz Bombs and get within range off the coast to attack at night....the game Sniper Elite 5's story got me interested in that concept of feasibility
1st option no
2nd option yes.
there was idea to make sealed container for sub to get v2 on a american coast.
but only thing that could stop usa is to prevent them make foothold in europe. that is if ussr and england would fall early on. than war could go to well... undecided.
There were ideas about towed cylinders with v2 inside.(mark felton has a video about them)
The Americans launched cruise missiles very similar to the v1 from submarines shortly after the war
The image of Hitler and his bunch @0.15 was taken during the speech a few days after Pearl Harbor, the one where he rashly declares war on the USA. This is not really a surprise, and supposedly Hitler believed he was honoring the Tripartate pact with Japan (even though the pact only bound Hitler to declare war if Japan were ATTACKED not if they were doing the attacking!) But what I find most interesting are the grim expressions on the faces of every single one of the high ranking nazis around Hitler. Goerring sits directly behind Hitler and he is obviously none too pleased by this action, nor is Field Marshall Jodl (Head of the OKW) to Hitler's right, or Joachim Von Ribbentrop (Hitler's foreign minister) in first row, far left, with arms crossed. You can scan every face in the image, and not one expresses anything other than ominous foreboding and gloom at the prospect of adding yet another extremely powerful foe to the long list of the Third Reich's sworn enemies!
What's interesting to me is a geographically small country like Britain could produce hundreds of four engined bombers and other aircraft types whilst at the same time Germany with a larger land mass couldn't produce aircraft at anywhere near the same rate. Despite having a large country to disperse production around. I know we had aircraft supplied by Canada and the US, but we still produced a large number of aircraft here. Makes you wonder what contribution all those Whitleys, Hampdens and Wellingtons made to disrupt production in the early years.
What? This is only a question of supply. The Empire was huge and had enough raw meterials. So... What is this amazing?
@@melchiorvonsternberg844 It's interesting to me because it looks like Britain learned from the German bombing attacks from WW1 and applied techniques like dispersed production straight away, so production wasn't badly affected. Germany Didn't get attacked so much during WW1 so didn't have that experience. They had most of Europe to disperse armament production to, but appeared not to. The allies were able to affect German production because it was concentrated in geographic areas.
@@markphillips2076 I don't think British hubris would have allowed such logic. Learning from the one who lost the war is crazy, isn't it? The Allies, after all, didn't draw any conclusions from the Spanish Civil War. In complete contrast to the Germans, who drew their military concept from operational experience, which was what made their success on the battlefield so imposant. And the Allies did not succeed in decisively affecting German armaments production until autumn 1944. An example: While not quite 11,000 fighter planes were built in 1943, the Germans produced more than 25,000 fighters in 1944. The jet planes are not included.
In 1944 Britain produced fewer aircraft than Germany or Japan.
@@melchiorvonsternberg844 It just fascinates me that despite the obvious need, they couldn't come up with a working strategic bomber, despite obviously having designs available.
The B-29 program cost more than the Manhattan project. It helps to have a big wallet.
The US was the only nation to spend more than Germany, 341 billion USD to 272.
More than Britain and USSR combined.
Question nobody’s asking: Where were they going to get the fuel to send bombers to America?
Even at the start of operation Barbarossa, Germany didn’t have enough gas to always keep the panzers fueled, and they didn’t even send all they had available because, again, fuel shortages..
The same place every politician gets everything: unicorn farts.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. -- Thomas Sowell
One of the key winnings of the operation was resources such as oil fields and refineries
Always have to smirk calling a liquid gas......
@@Tiberiotertio short for gasoline. Remember petrol is the name of a solvent produced by Carless, Capel and Leonard. This solvent could also used as a fuel and bybthe time the original manufacturers came to trade mark their solvent's name it had become the generic name for a fuel for cars.
As we all know, "joined-up thinking" was never a part of Nazi philosophy.
The Nazis didn't really have any capacity to build any 4 engine bombers even with slave labor, while they were being obliterated by B17s B24s and Lancasters.
They could have with the resources wasted on the V-2
These sorts of tales always make me feel very relieved that the Nazi state and industry were so dominated by inter personal ambitions and departmental rivalry. A little is good for competitive spirit and innovation but Hitler made it his central means of control. It ended up meaning he had no control and neither did anyone else. QED poor and delayed decisions not based of good information or analysis.
Just imagine ifnthe British were fighting the Battle of Britain in Spifires but against ME262s with Arado Bombers over London.
Logically the USA would then have faced Horten bombers, HO229 stealth fighters and an ICBM storm.
The west was damned lucky the enemy was so hampered by their own hand.
Nazis were masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The only reason they have any reputation for competency much less excellence comes from the fact they had essentially no existing military and were free to embrace the newest tactics and technologies. All of which they promptly also did in a way mired in continuous backstabbing to insane extremes constantly compelled to try too many things, that were too speculative, that would take way too long to develop much less deploy in meaningful numbers in the best case. Still they pressed ahead recklessly, buoyed all the way by the "certain knowledge" that their alleged innate superiority would _have_ to get them through. They were idiots who only got as far as they did by catching everyone else unprepared and likely overachieved.
If we could rewind events to 1940 and let them play out a hundred different times, a hundred ways with all the small details that may change by chance I don't think they even get within sight of Moscow 90 of those times. The only way they do any better than they did IRL would involve them being substantially less like the Nazis we're familiar with, probably so much so they'd be unlikely to ever start such a blatant war of naked imperial conquest to begin with. 🤷♂️
@@johnassal5838 Nazis and fascists in general are, very, VERY good at one thing: taking credit from others.
Be it Prussian military tradition being the thing that allowed Nazis to punch above their weight class. Or the Weimar Republic being able to maintain Germany as a developped economy at the cutting edge of academic accomplishment.
Nazis took over... And would have run the country into the ground in a few short years had WWII not allowed to maintain themselves by pillaging an entire continent. But hey! At least the uniforms were spiffy and the propaganda was top-notch...
@@johnassal5838 The Nazis were dead lucky some times early. For example we all know they got around the French Maginot Line by going thru the Ardennes Forest into Belgium. They never surveyed that route before hand. Hitlers Tank Commanders wanted to, but were forbidden because it might alert the Allies. But for dumb luck, they could have lost in the first few days.
The winner is who makes the least mistakes
@@simoncullum5019 Usually but not necessarily. Some mistakes carry far more weight than others and the timing matters too. You only need to make one mistake if it costs you the war and it mattered more who lost the _last_ battle in the American Revolution than who won every single one leading up to it, leading to the hit and run strategy of attrition George Washington came up with pretty quickly facing overwhelming British superiority on the battlefield. On the Eastern Front in WW2 the only mistake the Germans made was attacking in the first place, and to a slightly lesser extent making *zero* preparation for winter fighting. This reflects the fact that even they expected to lose if they hadn't knocked the USSR out by winter. Meanwhile Stalin had gutted his officer corps, arguably the only single reason the Nazi advance wasn't destroyed by Christmas, with the noobs left behind making a hundred mistakes but able to trade land for time to figure out WTF their jobs even were.
In the latter case, on paper the Germans made far fewer mistakes but made them before they ever attacked. All the Russians had to do was last long enough for the consequences of that 'original sin' to come back and bite the Nazis collective asses.
I’ve often wondered about the DB 604, a dedicated “X” configuration 24 cylinder engine that unlike the British RR Vulture and DB 606/610 types was designed from the outset as a high powered compact 24 cylinder engine. I read that the initial prototype tested to an astonishing 3,000 horsepower! The RLM cancelled the project which probably helped to kill any dedicated heavy bomber project that Germany might have aspired to, engines of suitable power and quantities always dogged Germany’s ability to build high speed and capable aircraft to compete with the Allies as there were never enough Jumo 213s, DB603s or BMW 801s to go around.
0:09 before Germany declared war on the US the US was already fighting Germany! The US had ordered the it’s navy to hunt and destroy Germany U-boats (while at the same time Germany had ordered its submarine not attack US ships) and the US navy was escorting British ships so the US was already fighting Germany.
One of the greatest examples of the procurement and development nightmare of Germany in WW 2.
We all know that the Yanks like to brag about how good they think they are but bragging about their capacity to build planes always conveniently leaves out one very important fact. It's easy to build planes when you have good weather and are not enduring daily bombing raids by the enemy. Germany and Britain both had periods of terrible weather and there were endless raids on their factories. The fact that they managed to produce what they did under those adverse circumstances is a credit to those trying to support their countries.
Why in God's name would the weather matter?
You think they were putting these together in fields?
Do you think "weather" had any bearing on Britain being the leader of the industrial revolution?
That in the hundred years of large scale manufacturing they didn't work out how to manage rain and snow?
The Russians were pumping out T34's in roofless factories in the middle of winter for crying out loud.
You make it sound like Britain and Germany were building airplanes outdoors.
Sure, we weren't under the threat of daily bombings, but come on man, we were pumping out B-24 Liberators at the rate of one plane per hour, out of the Willow Run plant, run by our beloved American automobile manufacturer Ford Motor Company.
You Limeys and Jerry's could never match that kind of production, even under ideal conditions..... Today!
Sadly, I doubt that us Yanks could do it either. 😟
Nevertheless, if you Europeans ever want to have a WW2-style aircraft production contest.... Bring it on!
We'll STILL kick your arses!
😋
@@straybullitt i believe that american dream was shattered a couple of years ago with the 737 max debacle.....
Only Southern California has "good weather". Even then, it does rain from December to April. I believe that only Lockheed in (beautiful) Burbank had outdoor assembly lines. Those were used for smaller aircraft, such as the P-38.
Both the Lockheed and Douglas (Long Beach) plants were under camouflage. The Japanese did attack oil installations in Santa Barbara with submarines, so it wasn't all Hollywood 🎥
@@janvanruth3485
Boeing has been operating under a wartime footing for decades now. The have to contend with the stinky liberals in Washington state. Much worse than Nazism or even the Kings rule!
Boeing will get it sorted, and mark my words, Jan..... The day will come when all you will see flying commercially is 737's. The sky will grow dark with them.
Thankyou Ed. I did know of these and Willy 's ego !
Another great video. Thank you. It has been my understanding that the German declaration of war on the U.S.A., agreed following the Japanese attack, was to give the German navy free rein on attacking U.S.A. supplies being delivered to the U.K. The declaration enabled the U-boats to attack and to sink oil tankers leaving the Gulf and travelling north along the American coast on their way to cross the Atlantic. With great success, often in sight of land and with little opposition. And naval ships escorting convoys in the west Atlantic.
The Americans were already attacking U-boats , the Germans declared war on US, as per their treaty obligations, this is a slanted doc, Milch , the Khazarian, sabotaged the project, or the me bomber, might have been punishing the American heartland, and making them have a different attitude towards making war in Europe 😀
Another very informative video from Mr. Nash.
There;s was nothing about this project that made any kind of strategic sense. The cost, use of resources and potential losses would have far outweighed the amount of damage they could possibly have caused to US manufacturing. Just imagine having to fly combat missions across the Atlantic? How many would have even survived to make it back to Europe.?
The potential impact on support for the war amongst the American public should never be under estimated. The American public's reaction to Sputnik is a good example of this.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 You got it right! Much more defenses were needed and deployed in this case. Remeber the Battle of Los Angels...?
@@neiloflongbeck5705 You make a good point. Sputnik turbo-charged the space race rather than ending it.
Also the fuel requirements for say, a 1000-bomber raid on NY. Given the Nazis were often chronically short of fuel that would have seemed a terrible waste of resources that were desperately needed elsewhere.
@@teacherdude depends on what each Me264 dropped. Standard bombs or nerve gas filled ones or even radioactive material filled bombs (not as nasty as a proper nuke but nasty enough). Might even be enough to revive isolationism in the US or to spur the total destruction of Germany.
The dive bomber role really hampered its development, lol. Thanks for the video!
Ed, even England prepared for war with the US. Up until the early thirties the UK based most of its naval programs on an Atlantic struggle with the US. The rest was based on a pacific containment of Japan.
You mean Gt Britain,obviously,as Welsh,Scottish and Ulstermen all volunteered,were conscripted,fought and died for King and Country.
Just imagine what a flight of these bombers would have done to Britain in WW2.
FWIW author Nevil Shute went down that path - of the imagination, circa 1938 in his story "What Happened To The Corbetts".
I'M ALREADY HITTING THE PLAY BUTTON.....I can't hit it any harder!!!
Enjoyed your video and so I gave it a Thumbs Up
One of the reasons why I don´t play against the Luftwaffles in EC3.
at 3:00 is the RLM /Reichsluftfahrtministerium, on the other side of the street was the famous Tresor-Technoclub, where i spend many nights, partying on E and Techno-Music. when you stepped out, you could see this intimidating building. I knew what it was, my lads did not..
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