@@kerberos623 I doubt the FAA will do an emergency revoke order over something like this incident. You would have to be a pretty clear immediate danger for them to pick up the phone and revoke you on the spot.
He was talking to Kennedy, and they knew he wasn’t some random psycho. The LGA controller and the police had no clue - can you imagine the nightmare if he caused a crash?
I would put the DC airspace right up there with JFL. Probably list the LA airspace third. Maybe a couple of eastern seaboards, like Boston, as a distant fourth... after that... it's a long way out on the list. Even with the special Class D airspace between Luke AFB and Glendale, I'd say the Phoenix area is more navigable than JFK.
@@brandonadams7837 Getting FOIA's out of New York can be like pulling teeth. I don't know if the FAA is any different, sometimes to hide it behind a massive paywall.
@@BiggHoss it's all federal since it's FAA, and the initial FOIA request is free but they can come back with a cost estimate and require payment to complete the request if it's something that'll take a lot of time (e.g. digging up 50 year old paper records and digitizing them) but for a digital recording, I'd be more surprised if it's not free. It would take them longer to draft the necessary paperwork for an estimate than to just fulfill the request.
In Los Angeles or other places in California, you see police helicopters chasing cars. In New York City, you see police choppers chasing other choppers!
"N84BL landed at the JFK Helipad and departed 3 hours later". One hour for refueling and paperwork, and two hours to go inside and buy a new pair of pants to replace the ones no longer usable after the a$$-chewing he received from ATC.
More like: It took 2 hours in New York traffic for a replacement pilot to drive to JFK, as the company decided this fool was not going to continue to fly for the day. ;)
That must have been a weird flight for the passengers too; just sorta doing circles over brooklyn while a police helo is right on top/below you, with jets dodging you, all while you're just trying to make it to JFK a little quicker....
Possible pilot deviation, I’ve never seen a more blatant pilot error since Harrison Ford landing on a taxi way, this helo pilot needs some training for sure.
I've seen worse. I've seen airliners land on taxiways, land on different airports, and of course the closest call in aviation history when an Air Canada flight nearly landed on a line of waiting aircraft on a taxiway, which could have broken the record for number of fatalities in a single crash.
Harrison Ford was at least talking to the tower, attempting to follow instructions, and was cleared to land. When the ATC informed him of the possible deviation, Ford immediately took responsibility. This helo pilot didn't have any spacial awareness. How do you fly from midtown to JFK and not even think about LGA airspace???
I recall a Tuber pilot flying down a VFR corridor on the Hudson emphasizing that NYC will come after you for drifting out of it. Then there's this guy just off in his own world somewhere inland.
That was one bad day for that pilot. First not being on the frequency. Once someone made contact with him, he squawked the wrong code. He seemed to be completely unaware of where he was or any other traffic. That will not be a fun phone call!
No, that's not it. He was talking to the wrong controller. The controller did not see him, because he was not in his airspace. Might have been circling around, waiting for instructions to land, until he realized what was going on. Seemed like he stayed out of everyone's way, though. That phone call must have been interesting.
I so that explains all the buzzing noises I’ve been hearing… (My house is not far from where he was doing loops. We’re not too far off to the side from the direct approach to LaGuardia 4)
I don’t know the pilot personally, but I was working when this happened doing the same work he was doing in NYC. This was definitely a training issue. From what I know about him, he’s a good pilot and has lots of professional commercial experience but was new to the area. NYC is a challenging place to fly with lots of nuance. You definitely have to know the procedures and lingo associated here. Sad to see his mistake broadcast like this, but I suppose it’s a good learning aid.
ignorance is a pretty poor excuse for a fuck-up this big. Probably shouldnt be flying at all if he cant be bothered to read a chart. hundreds of souls are at stake on those commercial airliners
@@armans467I would contend that almost all aviation incidents stem from some sort of ignorance. Nobody does something like this intentionally. To err is human.
@@Bartleby42007 It was his first day on JFK runs and It was his first JFK run of the day. He just stressed out and blanked, i guess. I feel terrible about it. He's a good dude, highly experienced.
I can’t help but think this controller, at this point in time in the escapade just wanted to get the guy to land and keep things calm on the frequency. Obviously the pilot is in over his head but being chewed out about it while landing would just make things worse. Just my 2 cents.
@@SeligTiles Makes sense. I have to assume that's why fairly often, unless the pilot's deviation is posing an immediate risk to themselves/other aircraft, they will wait until the aircraft is on the ground to give them that "phone number".
2 місяці тому+14
It is most likely that at the moment of first interaction, he simply thought LGA tower had handed him off to JFK, and that he was communicating with LGA before that (which would be what would normally happen). He had no way of knowing that the guy was just bumbling through Bravo airspace completely incommunicado.
We do, we call it the shoutline. If it wasnt the controller then then Supe was. But its not a public listening network that the public can get access too. (like liveatc)
My thoughts exactly! He's on with JFK tower, being directed to land at GAT. I assume that he assumed JFK and LGA were coordinating, no? These type of 121 helicopter flights are a daily (hourly) occurrence so what went wrong here?
@@marbe166 usually an airspace intruder involves the CIC/SUP? I would have figured they'd be working that angle so the controller can concentrate on the dots not touching.
I remember this. They both flew over my position in Queens. I was thinking “what is the NYPD up to now?”. Don’t tell me they’re starting to follow random aircraft lol. (Like they follow cars).
I know 84BL; it operates for Blade. I've spotted it at the NYC heliports and loaded/unloaded it at East Hampton. Always a fun time when an aircraft/airfield you know makes it on to this channel 🥴
Because of course Blade was involved… Seriously, you can get a group of between 12 and 14 people between Manhattan and JFK via the LIRR and the Airtrain for the same cost as one Blade ride… And you don’t have to worry about having a PD chopper following you… (It’s $195 for a one person, one way Blade flight. Meanwhile it is $13.50 off peak and $15.50 peak for the LIRR/Airtrain connection. $5/$7 depending on the time on the railroad and the $8.50 fare for the Airtrain)
@@metropod When you're a professional making that $195 every couple hours, a lawyer making it a few times an hour, or an entertainer/athlete/CEO making it in a few minutes, it makes sense. What's wrong with spreading some of that money back down into the economy?
@@alanm5013 While I understand (and even agree) with your *point*, the final posed question kind of skews away from it. If you make that money quickly enough that the saved time/stress of picking the flight is beneficial, go for it. However, of that $195 ticket, how much of it is spreading back down into the economy? A decent amount of it is going into fuel, insurance, or costs for the aircraft. Which are three industries where most of the excess profit is going back into pockets of super rich execs, and not spreading out into the economy.
I didn't get the feeling that LGA and JFK were speaking to each other to check if he was on one or the other's frequency. Of course we don't know, but the JFK controller didn't reference LGA till quite late in the exchanges with N84BL.
One thing I've learned from watching these videos is that anyone who's got their head that far up their ass already definitely isn't paying attention to Guard.
This reminds me of a story my father-in-law used to tell me. He had a buddy who was a pilot and also a bit of dumbass. He got in big doodoo for over-flying the Limerick nuclear generating station in Montgomery County, PA back in the early 80s. He got yelled at, but they didn't revoke him. These days, I wouldn't be surprised if the would have just shot him down. 🤐
I wish there was a way to get a follow up on this. What was this pilot thinking? It's baffling why anyone would think this was ok. Who WAS he talking to? Did he think northwest Queens was uncontrolled airspace?
You can see his track on FlightAware on 11/3/24 at 1:57pm EST. UA-cam blocked my link. All of their trips from 34th St. to JFK went south down the Hudson and then East. This guy went North up the river and then East. Who knows why.
UA-cam's system blocks almost all links. There's a special way the channel can post links. But if it's not your video, comments with links gets eaten by the system.
I used to service General aviation at Kennedy and the pilots who fly for the company which is based out of Jersey are actually really good guys and know theyre stuff. I dont know what went wrong here because i serviced N84BL DAILY a while back. Typically they have their own shuttle passage to fly a few thousand feed above atlantic avenue.
Look at it this way. Everything was being done by the book. The only mistake was being on a different frequency. He thought the airport he was flying around WAS JFK. Yea, charts could have confirmed to him what was wrong, and probably that is what happened in the end. Mistakes can and do happen.
funny enough, ive woprked on 84BL so many times out of EH. pilots are nice, they just get stressed while flying through the airspace (not clarifying what he did)))
"N84BL....where are you?!" Doesn't sound like other guy knew where he was really either. What a cluster...."And please don see the heavy jets when their in ya windoh, yeah?"
Yeah JFK couldn't locate him until pretty late. Seems like N84BL wasn't where he thought he was, and to make matters worse was squawking the wrong thing.
How was it that LGA had his callsign but not JFK? And what's with the multiple calls between him and JFK that go nowhere until they finally start actually completing meaningful exchanges (is it possible that not everything was picked up)?
JFK was probably not aware of the situation because they hadn't violated JFK airspace. So they thought it was just a normal aircraft outside of the class B airspace trying to request something.
2 місяці тому+1
@@lloydfeng5716 Well, he wasn't really outside of Class B. JFK ATC likely thought he was simply getting an aircraft handed off form LGA controller. This is what happens when helicopters come from Manhattan; they talk to LGA, until (s)he hands them off to JFK.
They probably had the callsign from ADSB. JFK did not spot them at first glance because their position report was inaccurate; they said 5 miles north but were more like 7 miles northwest. And also because the location they actually were was not a place where the controller would expect a VFR to cold call from, and there were 2 other targets there.
@@Marklar0 I don't know a lot about the differences between ADSB, transponder data, etc, so maybe that's what's causing the question. But I noticed that the JFK controller told them at the end that they were squawking the wrong transponder code, yet LGA which never spoke to them had the correct tail number (even if they did last have the police helicopter confirm that) and knew where they were.
Tell me there's not an emergency frequency that is heard in EVERY cockpit in range, REGARDLESS of what they're tuned to. Or if that's too disruptive, then an urgent flash on cockpit displays. I mean, this is the 1980s, surely that's trivial to accomplish, right?
I was listening and watching this unfold whilst landing on 4R and holding short 4L JFK. Even when he got to JFK he was about to fly over the departure runway but turned away and landed. Clueless.
I remember being at Edmonton international a few yrs ago waiting in line listening to LiveATC and then being delayed due to A Business jet pilot landing with no instructions as he was not in contact with the tower. He was greeted at the taxiway by the Police and escorted to a parking spot. I heard later on they had a non functioning radio and the pilot and first officer were grounded for not following protocol. If ATC and other traffic weren’t on the ball it could of been ugly.
I don't know all of the protocols, but the big part of it is to squawk 7600, so ATC can see you're having trouble communicating with them. There's other stuff you're supposed to do, but I don't remember it. I suspect if they changed their transponder code, it would have been enough to get them out of hot water. And the ATC would have treated them as an emergency aircraft instead of a non-communicating pilot violating controlled airspace.
I always wondered how the helicopters are managed by ATC over NYC. The police helicopters follow the squiggliest paths around my neighborhood. Guess it's not a problem if they know to stay at the right altitude and within certain confines.
Any chance you can put the date and time in the description or in the video itself? I can kind of make out 7 pm-ish in the top left corner of the video.
Once "Finest 19" was talking to JFK Tower I am certain that 84BL-balls were shrinking by the minute as he listened and probably realized what hebjust did. Small as an atom at touchdown in JFK...😂
@wcolby he did multiple 360 turns, he must have been able to see the other traffic being persistent with him. Which also shows he's not aware of what's going on around him.
@vertigoalopolus i know that, the vid has both sides of the communication, he was on JFK's freq. No where in the clip did he radio to them to enquire why he's being tailed.
Finest 91. Not being a native this is a great callsign I hadn't heard before. Honestly. I've heard these violations by GA before. I'm sure New York wants aerial and VIP flyovers, but any minor entry into another airspace. or not making and sticking to a route should be hammered home to the operator that it's a very heavy pilot and operator infringement with posssible termination applicable. Do ATC always think they can handle a rogue aircaft like this, not knowing here they will turn next? It's a stressor for them they don't need at the very least. They have to rely purely on watching his altitude number on a small screen. What I learned about helicopters is they can go up and down vertically, quite quickly. ... and why did he have a different squawk code? Was that given to him earlier?
Looking at the helicopter route chart, where that guy was, and the flight path made me think of a movie with a different sort of route. The dialogue would have to be modified: Capt: Where the heck is he going Jonesy? Jonesy: He's to the port of Thor's Twins Capt: This isn't Red Route One. What is he doing? Jonesy: I don't kno-- Jonesy: CRAZY IVAN!
@ Monitoring means using your radio number two and listen to it, changing frequencies has nothing to do with this also it is recommended to monitor guard if capable. You are clearly seeing the result of not monitoring it in this video.
QUESTION: Don't police helicopters have loudspeakers to communicate with people on the ground? Couldn't Finest 19 have used that to tell the 84BL to contact La Guardia? It certainly would have gotten my attention.
those speakers are barely loud enough to even be heard from the ground, goodluck trying to use it for helicopter to helicopter coms imagine trying to listen to someone whispering to you from the other side of a wall while a loud generator is on powering a giant fan
is it just a coincidence the police helicopter's tail number ends in PD or can you request personalized tail numbers somehow if you buy a new aircraft?
2 місяці тому+1
Yes. You can request a personalised ("vanity") tail number from the FAA, and many people do it (especially those who build their own planes from a kit, or from scratch). There are restrictions; it must be between two and five characters, last two can be letters, others must be numbers, some combinations are not allowed, and letters I and O aren't allowed, and so on. It costs $10 to reserve a custom number (and renew annually). You can move your number from one aircraft to another.
Nah. There is no prison sentence for violating a Bravo airspace, but you can definitely get your licence yanked if the FAA doesn't like what you have to say in your defense when they call you to investigate.
It was at that moment...
...he knew he screwed up!
why was he allowed to depart again? Should that not be an immediate grounding?
He may not have been flying the aircraft out again, maybe for a while 🤓@@kerberos623
That Pilot is in BIG Doodoo 😂
@@kerberos623 I doubt the FAA will do an emergency revoke order over something like this incident. You would have to be a pretty clear immediate danger for them to pick up the phone and revoke you on the spot.
I like how LaGuardia is freaking out and JFK is like "you're in LaGuardias way there kind of it looks like"
@@MrGigaHurtz who wouldn't freak out at an intruder in your domain lol
He was talking to Kennedy, and they knew he wasn’t some random psycho. The LGA controller and the police had no clue - can you imagine the nightmare if he caused a crash?
😂
JFK “He appears to be complying with my instructions…”
Moments later “Sir, you’re not heading in the right direction…” ☠️
Oh man this is gonna be a clusterfuck. Under JFK control, while flying through LGA final approach... thats gonna be one hell of a phone call
something tells me that's not just gonna be one phone call
That was probably a conference call.
@@scottkraus9325 That 100% was a conference call.
You get a number! And you get a number! And you get a (pension and a condo in Florida)
He wasn’t under JFK’s or anyone else’s control.
Not sure you could pick a worse airspace to f-around in
And now he's finding out.
Washington, D.C. SFRA
@@Fletchiee Restricted Area 4808 North (R-4808N)
I would put the DC airspace right up there with JFL. Probably list the LA airspace third. Maybe a couple of eastern seaboards, like Boston, as a distant fourth... after that... it's a long way out on the list. Even with the special Class D airspace between Luke AFB and Glendale, I'd say the Phoenix area is more navigable than JFK.
North Korea
The aviation equivalent of a naked guy running erratically on the highway 👌
Except the police don’t shot the helicopter
"Sir do you know why i pulled you over in the air?"
@@LevinciaReapersIono License and registration please. Soooo, how many drinks did you have tonight, sir?
@@jimmars Find a single instance of that happening to a naked guy on the highway 🤣
@@wildcatdan5072 Marcus-David Peters naked by the road Laquan McDonald not naked on the road no weapons
I want to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
Can just FOIA request and listen. They all get recorded. I’m surprised Victor doesn’t do that more often and add it to the channel.
I don't think there's going to be many words. Just a lot of growling noises and subdued weeping.
@@brandonadams7837 Getting FOIA's out of New York can be like pulling teeth. I don't know if the FAA is any different, sometimes to hide it behind a massive paywall.
@ NY state law (FOIL) and the federal FOIA law are not related. Regardless, I’ve never had to FOIA anything from the FAA so I’m not sure.
@@BiggHoss it's all federal since it's FAA, and the initial FOIA request is free but they can come back with a cost estimate and require payment to complete the request if it's something that'll take a lot of time (e.g. digging up 50 year old paper records and digitizing them) but for a digital recording, I'd be more surprised if it's not free. It would take them longer to draft the necessary paperwork for an estimate than to just fulfill the request.
In Los Angeles or other places in California, you see police helicopters chasing cars. In New York City, you see police choppers chasing other choppers!
A helicopter police chase chasing a helicopter . Don’t see that often
I saw it on Blue Thunder one time, but they were all police helicopters and they were all chasing each other around.
@@hueyccfunny .. that’s not the scene I remember from Blue Thunder
Isn’t that a felony for not pulling over? 😂
@@Look_What_You_Did NYPD doesn't have jurisdiction in NYC? Well, I'll be skittled.
"N84BL landed at the JFK Helipad and departed 3 hours later". One hour for refueling and paperwork, and two hours to go inside and buy a new pair of pants to replace the ones no longer usable after the a$$-chewing he received from ATC.
More like: It took 2 hours in New York traffic for a replacement pilot to drive to JFK, as the company decided this fool was not going to continue to fly for the day. ;)
And the morons in that station to.
I certainly Hope that they didn’t let him continue to fly! He Screams Incompetence!
That must have been a weird flight for the passengers too; just sorta doing circles over brooklyn while a police helo is right on top/below you, with jets dodging you, all while you're just trying to make it to JFK a little quicker....
especially if they can hear atc
@@jamescollier3 Oh yeah I forget that some helis have coms for basically everyone built in with the ear pro. lol
They should be thankful they’re Alive! He’s acting as if he’s the only one flying around there 🙄! Idiot!
Possible pilot deviation, I’ve never seen a more blatant pilot error since Harrison Ford landing on a taxi way, this helo pilot needs some training for sure.
I've seen worse. I've seen airliners land on taxiways, land on different airports, and of course the closest call in aviation history when an Air Canada flight nearly landed on a line of waiting aircraft on a taxiway, which could have broken the record for number of fatalities in a single crash.
Harrison Ford was at least talking to the tower, attempting to follow instructions, and was cleared to land. When the ATC informed him of the possible deviation, Ford immediately took responsibility. This helo pilot didn't have any spacial awareness. How do you fly from midtown to JFK and not even think about LGA airspace???
This was a crazy one! Great work from police and ATC controllers as always.
I recall a Tuber pilot flying down a VFR corridor on the Hudson emphasizing that NYC will come after you for drifting out of it.
Then there's this guy just off in his own world somewhere inland.
Just hanging around on a final approach path? That's gonna be one hell of a phone call.
After 9/11 I’ve never understood why neighboring airspace’s don’t communicate with each other sooner.
there should be a "red phone" type of instant comms which would allow this.
@@patersonplankrdthere is.
@@RowanHawkins It appears the "Bat Phone" wasn't used....
That was one bad day for that pilot. First not being on the frequency. Once someone made contact with him, he squawked the wrong code. He seemed to be completely unaware of where he was or any other traffic. That will not be a fun phone call!
No, that's not it.
He was talking to the wrong controller. The controller did not see him, because he was not in his airspace.
Might have been circling around, waiting for instructions to land, until he realized what was going on.
Seemed like he stayed out of everyone's way, though.
That phone call must have been interesting.
Not sure if he'll make the call. Seems to have some difficulty with numbers.
Legend has it that 84 Bravo Lima is still doing circles between LGA and JFK.
And squawking something he shouldn't be
I heard he left LGA and JFK airspace and started playing ring around the rosie in EWA and TEB airspace squawking 0320
I so that explains all the buzzing noises I’ve been hearing…
(My house is not far from where he was doing loops. We’re not too far off to the side from the direct approach to LaGuardia 4)
Similar to the tapestry of obscenities uttered by Ralphie's( A Christmas Story) father, "which is rumored to be hanging in space over Lake Michigan"
Well let me tell you of the story
Of a man named Charlie
On a tragic and fateful day
I am never flying Uber again to NYC
GTA V 3 star wanted level.
Helicopter chase. Evasion unsuccessful.
"This is Helitor 3! Suspect is going south dispatch"
All you had to do was follow the damn helicopter, CJ!
@@nerfshamansplzugh the memories… worst mission in basically any game I’ve played
"Do you know why I pulled you down?"
FURRYYY
I don’t know the pilot personally, but I was working when this happened doing the same work he was doing in NYC. This was definitely a training issue. From what I know about him, he’s a good pilot and has lots of professional commercial experience but was new to the area. NYC is a challenging place to fly with lots of nuance. You definitely have to know the procedures and lingo associated here. Sad to see his mistake broadcast like this, but I suppose it’s a good learning aid.
Same
ignorance is a pretty poor excuse for a fuck-up this big. Probably shouldnt be flying at all if he cant be bothered to read a chart. hundreds of souls are at stake on those commercial airliners
@armans467 have you flown over JFK at 1000?
@@armans467I would contend that almost all aviation incidents stem from some sort of ignorance. Nobody does something like this intentionally. To err is human.
@@Steppingontheball at a certain point ignorance and malice are indistinguishable from eachother
I fly helis in NYC everyday. Familiar with 848BL’s company. No idea what this guy is doing
Has to be a new guy, I don't even recognize their voice. All 84BL does is JFK runs and that pilot doesn't seem like they know where the GAT is.
If he was talking to jfk, and hes in laguardia:::: shouldnt jfk have handed him over to laguardia?
@@Bartleby42007 It was his first day on JFK runs and It was his first JFK run of the day. He just stressed out and blanked, i guess. I feel terrible about it. He's a good dude, highly experienced.
Bro decided to take a causal stroll through NYC class Bravo and didn’t bother to tell anyone.
LGA: Finest 19, Get that guy away from our runways
JFK: Meh, it's not our runways.
This sums up driving in NYC as well, tbh.
I have a number for to call. Wow that's cool and far out man, thank you . we are having a good time up here.
JFK TOWER: Yeah, looks like you're in Laguardia's way there."
He didn't really sound all that concerned about it.
Not his paperwork to fill out, I guess
I can’t help but think this controller, at this point in time in the escapade just wanted to get the guy to land and keep things calm on the frequency. Obviously the pilot is in over his head but being chewed out about it while landing would just make things worse. Just my 2 cents.
@@SeligTiles Makes sense. I have to assume that's why fairly often, unless the pilot's deviation is posing an immediate risk to themselves/other aircraft, they will wait until the aircraft is on the ground to give them that "phone number".
It is most likely that at the moment of first interaction, he simply thought LGA tower had handed him off to JFK, and that he was communicating with LGA before that (which would be what would normally happen). He had no way of knowing that the guy was just bumbling through Bravo airspace completely incommunicado.
Just another day in NYC airspace. 😅
You might wonder why someone in the LGA tower didn't call the JFK tower to check if they were talking to 84BL...
We do, we call it the shoutline. If it wasnt the controller then then Supe was. But its not a public listening network that the public can get access too. (like liveatc)
My thoughts exactly!
He's on with JFK tower, being directed to land at GAT. I assume that he assumed JFK and LGA were coordinating, no? These type of 121 helicopter flights are a daily (hourly) occurrence so what went wrong here?
@@thejets511 The LGA controller sounded like he hadn't even given it a thought, though.
Looks like they did later on the landline when JFK was already controling it
@@marbe166 usually an airspace intruder involves the CIC/SUP? I would have figured they'd be working that angle so the controller can concentrate on the dots not touching.
I remember this. They both flew over my position in Queens. I was thinking “what is the NYPD up to now?”. Don’t tell me they’re starting to follow random aircraft lol. (Like they follow cars).
If it were Arkansas I would figure the police were getting set to perform a pit maneuver.
@@TexasVernon
Police: pull over immediately
Them: we already are we can't pull over any further
Police: you will or you will face the pit
"Do you now how fast you were flying, sir?"
@@TexasVernon I’ve tried that in Battlefield. It doesn’t usually work out for both parties. 🤣
@@abellator7560 I swore that's the opening to Super Troopers.
Flying in LaGuardia airspace while talking to JFK Tower. Took him some time to realize he was flying over the wrong airport.
Suspend license for 90 days for a complete reevaluation. Obviously zero clue on flying in the NYC airspace.
I know 84BL; it operates for Blade. I've spotted it at the NYC heliports and loaded/unloaded it at East Hampton. Always a fun time when an aircraft/airfield you know makes it on to this channel 🥴
Because of course Blade was involved…
Seriously, you can get a group of between 12 and 14 people
between Manhattan and JFK via the LIRR and the Airtrain for the same cost as one Blade ride…
And you don’t have to worry about having a PD chopper following you…
(It’s $195 for a one person, one way Blade flight. Meanwhile it is $13.50 off peak and $15.50 peak for the LIRR/Airtrain connection. $5/$7 depending on the time on the railroad and the $8.50 fare for the Airtrain)
@@metropod Yeah, but then you are exposed to poor people, so...
@@metropod When you're a professional making that $195 every couple hours, a lawyer making it a few times an hour, or an entertainer/athlete/CEO making it in a few minutes, it makes sense. What's wrong with spreading some of that money back down into the economy?
@@alanm5013 While I understand (and even agree) with your *point*, the final posed question kind of skews away from it. If you make that money quickly enough that the saved time/stress of picking the flight is beneficial, go for it. However, of that $195 ticket, how much of it is spreading back down into the economy? A decent amount of it is going into fuel, insurance, or costs for the aircraft. Which are three industries where most of the excess profit is going back into pockets of super rich execs, and not spreading out into the economy.
I didn't get the feeling that LGA and JFK were speaking to each other to check if he was on one or the other's frequency. Of course we don't know, but the JFK controller didn't reference LGA till quite late in the exchanges with N84BL.
What I've learned from watching this channel is NYC and NORCAL are two air spaces you don't want to fuck around in .
NORCAL, DC NCR, and NYC are the top three reasons I never want to try to be a pilot ever.
As soon as I get a notification, I always have to click. You do a great job, Victor!
Thanks, really appreciate it
What we've got here is failure to communicate.
In addition to the question of inter-tower coordination, what about calling on Gaurd?
One thing I've learned from watching these videos is that anyone who's got their head that far up their ass already definitely isn't paying attention to Guard.
waste of resources for 1 rogue heli
They may have. These recordings may not have all the frequencies in use.
@armans467 it's the radio channel
Meow...
This felt like pilot task saturation.
What a cluster!
This reminds me of a story my father-in-law used to tell me. He had a buddy who was a pilot and also a bit of dumbass. He got in big doodoo for over-flying the Limerick nuclear generating station in Montgomery County, PA back in the early 80s. He got yelled at, but they didn't revoke him. These days, I wouldn't be surprised if the would have just shot him down. 🤐
The JFK controller probably didn't know the trouble the N84BL pilot caused until he got the report from La Guardia controller.
I wish there was a way to get a follow up on this. What was this pilot thinking? It's baffling why anyone would think this was ok. Who WAS he talking to? Did he think northwest Queens was uncontrolled airspace?
You can see his track on FlightAware on 11/3/24 at 1:57pm EST. UA-cam blocked my link. All of their trips from 34th St. to JFK went south down the Hudson and then East. This guy went North up the river and then East. Who knows why.
UA-cam's system blocks almost all links. There's a special way the channel can post links. But if it's not your video, comments with links gets eaten by the system.
Did no one think to try to raise him on guard?
With all the rapid frequency changes in that area, it's not really practical to monitor guard.
I like the callsign FINEST-19 for, one assumes, "New York's Finest", i.e., the New York City Police Department.
A normal day at VATSIM - but this is reality.
Perhaps a few familiarization flights would have been prudent before soloing through one of the busiest airspace.
I used to service General aviation at Kennedy and the pilots who fly for the company which is based out of Jersey are actually really good guys and know theyre stuff. I dont know what went wrong here because i serviced N84BL DAILY a while back. Typically they have their own shuttle passage to fly a few thousand feed above atlantic avenue.
Look at it this way. Everything was being done by the book. The only mistake was being on a different frequency. He thought the airport he was flying around WAS JFK. Yea, charts could have confirmed to him what was wrong, and probably that is what happened in the end. Mistakes can and do happen.
2:18 the most New York answer lol
funny enough, ive woprked on 84BL so many times out of EH. pilots are nice, they just get stressed while flying through the airspace (not clarifying what he did)))
This heli is active right now over the Hudson as I watch this lol
Ouch, that's going to be expensive. Pilot didn't do his homework is my guess.
Departed three hours later with a new pilot.
I was thinking the same thing....his first call was to the tower, the second to his boss asking him to send another pilot.
"N84BL....where are you?!" Doesn't sound like other guy knew where he was really either. What a cluster...."And please don see the heavy jets when their in ya windoh, yeah?"
Yeah JFK couldn't locate him until pretty late. Seems like N84BL wasn't where he thought he was, and to make matters worse was squawking the wrong thing.
I’m sure the pax were blissfully unaware and were also charged a pretty penny
Mary Immaculate Hospital has been closed in 2009.
How was it that LGA had his callsign but not JFK? And what's with the multiple calls between him and JFK that go nowhere until they finally start actually completing meaningful exchanges (is it possible that not everything was picked up)?
JFK was probably not aware of the situation because they hadn't violated JFK airspace. So they thought it was just a normal aircraft outside of the class B airspace trying to request something.
@@lloydfeng5716 Well, he wasn't really outside of Class B. JFK ATC likely thought he was simply getting an aircraft handed off form LGA controller. This is what happens when helicopters come from Manhattan; they talk to LGA, until (s)he hands them off to JFK.
They probably had the callsign from ADSB. JFK did not spot them at first glance because their position report was inaccurate; they said 5 miles north but were more like 7 miles northwest. And also because the location they actually were was not a place where the controller would expect a VFR to cold call from, and there were 2 other targets there.
@@Marklar0 I don't know a lot about the differences between ADSB, transponder data, etc, so maybe that's what's causing the question. But I noticed that the JFK controller told them at the end that they were squawking the wrong transponder code, yet LGA which never spoke to them had the correct tail number (even if they did last have the police helicopter confirm that) and knew where they were.
LaGuardia is going crazy, meanwhile the pilot is talking to JFK.
The one simple trick to lose your license.
Tell me there's not an emergency frequency that is heard in EVERY cockpit in range, REGARDLESS of what they're tuned to. Or if that's too disruptive, then an urgent flash on cockpit displays. I mean, this is the 1980s, surely that's trivial to accomplish, right?
This was weird. Kenndy Tower had him, but LaGuardia didn't. 🤔
...He was flying circles like he was playing chicken in the middle of the street during rush hour while the police were chasing him...
I was listening and watching this unfold whilst landing on 4R and holding short 4L JFK. Even when he got to JFK he was about to fly over the departure runway but turned away and landed. Clueless.
I remember being at Edmonton international a few yrs ago waiting in line listening to LiveATC and then being delayed due to A Business jet pilot landing with no instructions as he was not in contact with the tower. He was greeted at the taxiway by the Police and escorted to a parking spot. I heard later on they had a non functioning radio and the pilot and first officer were grounded for not following protocol.
If ATC and other traffic weren’t on the ball it could of been ugly.
Could of jeez o pete
I don't know all of the protocols, but the big part of it is to squawk 7600, so ATC can see you're having trouble communicating with them. There's other stuff you're supposed to do, but I don't remember it. I suspect if they changed their transponder code, it would have been enough to get them out of hot water. And the ATC would have treated them as an emergency aircraft instead of a non-communicating pilot violating controlled airspace.
In the last seven days 100 flights over the New York area. And of course back in action creating more mayhem.
More mayhem? Please elaborate
Oooo a police chase!
Lookin' for the traffic! :D
Did that happen this morning? I remember seeing a helicopter getting chased over the NYC skyline this morning and I thought it was odd.
Not today
"Hey cap, what's with that red flashing light? Says CAREER DISSIPATION WARNING on it?"
I wonder if he drives the same way...
I always wondered how the helicopters are managed by ATC over NYC. The police helicopters follow the squiggliest paths around my neighborhood. Guess it's not a problem if they know to stay at the right altitude and within certain confines.
You heard about that AA plane leaving Hawaii that almost smashed into a mountain? ATC saved everyone on board bro
Stayed respectful. Must have been hard for NY controllers. But well handled.
Any chance you can put the date and time in the description or in the video itself? I can kind of make out 7 pm-ish in the top left corner of the video.
November 3
November 3rd around 2pm.
Once "Finest 19" was talking to JFK Tower I am certain that 84BL-balls were shrinking by the minute as he listened and probably realized what hebjust did. Small as an atom at touchdown in JFK...😂
Everyday I hear 84BL coming into jfk (I live by it) but it’s def a diff pilot lol
I didn't know Piper made helicopters
Or BMW.
Now I know where poor vatsim terminology comes from. It comes from listening to NYPD helo comms lol.
How do you not see you're being tailed by a PD chopper?
I don’t know about your Helicopter, but my Helicopter doesn’t have a rearview mirror or a rear window.
@wcolby he did multiple 360 turns, he must have been able to see the other traffic being persistent with him. Which also shows he's not aware of what's going on around him.
@@5iFTYHFaviation_addict Hes on a different frequency and probably wondering why the PD helo isnt talking to him, and what he wants with him.
@vertigoalopolus i know that, the vid has both sides of the communication, he was on JFK's freq. No where in the clip did he radio to them to enquire why he's being tailed.
This guy couldn't fly his way out of a wet paper bag! Sheesh!!
Bro got a 5 star wanted level.
Finest 91. Not being a native this is a great callsign I hadn't heard before.
Honestly. I've heard these violations by GA before. I'm sure New York wants aerial and VIP flyovers, but any minor entry into another airspace. or not making and sticking to a route should be hammered home to the operator that it's a very heavy pilot and operator infringement with posssible termination applicable.
Do ATC always think they can handle a rogue aircaft like this, not knowing here they will turn next? It's a stressor for them they don't need at the very least.
They have to rely purely on watching his altitude number on a small screen. What I learned about helicopters is they can go up and down vertically, quite quickly.
... and why did he have a different squawk code? Was that given to him earlier?
Must be a pilot from Houston where it's OK to fly completely unaware of wtf you're doing
Looking at the helicopter route chart, where that guy was, and the flight path made me think of a movie with a different sort of route. The dialogue would have to be modified:
Capt: Where the heck is he going Jonesy?
Jonesy: He's to the port of Thor's Twins
Capt: This isn't Red Route One. What is he doing?
Jonesy: I don't kno--
Jonesy: CRAZY IVAN!
Monitor 121.5 all the time super pilots…
Not practical with all the rapid frequency changes in the Metro area.
@ Monitoring means using your radio number two and listen to it, changing frequencies has nothing to do with this also it is recommended to monitor guard if capable. You are clearly seeing the result of not monitoring it in this video.
Any updates on pilot's explanation? He shouldn't be allowed to take off from JFK.
The fact that this happened again JFC
QUESTION: Don't police helicopters have loudspeakers to communicate with people on the ground? Couldn't Finest 19 have used that to tell the 84BL to contact La Guardia? It certainly would have gotten my attention.
ANSWER: No. Helicopters aren't quiet you know, they are especially loud when you're sitting in one.
ANSWER: Helicopter noise is loud so the police pilot will certainly not get the 84BL's attention even if he uses loudspeakers.
Between the noise of the helicopter (especially the screaming turbine) and the (probably) noise-canceling headset, that would not work.
those speakers are barely loud enough to even be heard from the ground, goodluck trying to use it for helicopter to helicopter coms
imagine trying to listen to someone whispering to you from the other side of a wall while a loud generator is on powering a giant fan
is it just a coincidence the police helicopter's tail number ends in PD or can you request personalized tail numbers somehow if you buy a new aircraft?
Yes. You can request a personalised ("vanity") tail number from the FAA, and many people do it (especially those who build their own planes from a kit, or from scratch). There are restrictions; it must be between two and five characters, last two can be letters, others must be numbers, some combinations are not allowed, and letters I and O aren't allowed, and so on. It costs $10 to reserve a custom number (and renew annually). You can move your number from one aircraft to another.
This was ATC Twilight Zone. Everyone and everything seemed off
Still hilarious to me how they say 'possible' pilot deviation... 😂 I'm pretty sure they'll never be allowed to fly again 😂
Sounds like the pilot will have to use their one phone call pretty quick.
Nah. There is no prison sentence for violating a Bravo airspace, but you can definitely get your licence yanked if the FAA doesn't like what you have to say in your defense when they call you to investigate.
Got the notice. It's a gold star for screw tube.
Heyyy whatya want I am walkin' here
but the helecopter version
Imagine if you could watch that chase with binoculars somehow and listen to it. 😂
🚨 pull over pull over
I've had too much to drink probably, but did that police chopper pilot have a Boston accent?
Say bye bye to your license...
They cant do anything but watch. Does it make them feel better?