I don't care whether or not the protagonist is likeable. They just gotta be well written, and if they're a shitty person then I expect the story to treat them like a shitty person.
It's a shame that you have to get over the hump to even have a chance of knowing if they grow or the writer is just bad and they're destined to become a 40 y/o karen
This is actually probably why people like it....because it makes people feel like, even when they're messing up, they can still be special or hopeful maybe. ? Loll (idekk) 😂
Just this once, I'd like to read about a female protagonist who knows that she's pretty, but isn't vain about her beauty. Also, many High School relationships don't last beyond school, yet they're typically portrayed as THE one.
That will be actually nice for change :). On the "High School Great Love Interest" portrayed as "the one" I'm on the fence. On one hand we know that usually it last about two years average, but on the other... darn when I was teenager I really felt that my High School sweetheart is the "One". Spoiler alert - he wasn't XD
Yes, I would love for YA authors to realize that acknowledging your own beauty is not wrong. Besides, a good dose of vanity actually makes a character more entertaining. Why do you think people love Disney villains so much?
I actually recently read a series sort of like that. "Circle of Three" by Isobel Bird, the main character starts off book one wishing that she was less plain (example: that her hair wasn't a dirty blonde) and actually 'does' get the hunky jock, but only to find that by the time she starts dating him she's grown and matured as a person and eventually breaks it off because while she does still like him and he is a good guy, she's become a different person by this point :=)
The older I get, the less I understand why an immortal being would hang around a high school. I felt the "I just personally can't get into it because I'm a jaded adult and I know too much" in my soul. And also yeah, WTF is up with sexualizing minors?
I agree. Pretending to be somewhere between 20 and 40 makes much more sense, because your persona is an adult. Also, people age differently, so it may be easier to hide immortality. I mean, I met once (before the whole esthetic surgeries craze) a woman in her fourties that looked as if she were in her early twenties (she was also apparently a mafia boss, so being a vampire would fit nicely).
Precisely, I never got why the Cullens would voluntarily keep on attending high school, when they could simply go to college, or maybe they could try to pass off being in their early twenties, and get jobs.
@@thisistheaccountname Yes and that it's mentally exhausting for them having to keep moving to places and starting all over again. So they'd rather move less often.
Depending on how teenagery they look, they might have trouble hanging around in adult spaces. Even if they say "I'm actually twenty, here's my ID card", that ID is a fake, and after about 5-10 years they'll stand out even more. It might be interesting to have a teenage immortal who actually mentally stays a teenager as well. I guess they'd be a bit Peter Pan-like
I actually like YA for the lack of overtly sexual scenes. I like romance as much as the next person, but not erotica. I prefer leaving things to imagination. Also, sometimes the steamy part overshadows the story and it bugs me.
Fair! It hasn't escaped my notice, though, that people take it for granted that sex and nudity in any or all forms is off-limits, but creepy, toxic, sometimes-even-predatory relationship dynamics are okay, and explicit violence is also fine. Is that just an American quirk, or can we ground that apparent inconsistency in a sound rationale? (Obviously, depicting underage characters in certain kinds of "adult" situations would be creepy and, in some places, literally illegal.)
That's what gets me with EL James and her dirty fanfiction that became Fifty Shades. She's a woman who in her FORTIES wrote a filthy story about a girl who is SEVENTEEN in the first Twilight Story and is in a BDSM relationship with a vampire that is trapped in his EIGHTEEN-year-old body. She then upped the ages to 21 and 25 when she rewrote it as FSOG to avoid a backlash. Has she got an Epheb complex or something?
The trope of the teenage boy who looks like a 6'1" bodybuilder but is 15 years old. *Note: He is also compared to a living Adonis by the female protagonist. After a few scenes of exposing his abdominal muscles, it is revealed that despite his charismatic personality and flirtatious ways, he has not had any significant relationships in the past. The epitome of beauty and modesty, perfection personified.
This! My highschool crush didn't evolved to sexy teen until we were 17/18. Before that? He looked a little dorky but cute. Zero building and zero shoulders and definetely no ABS XD
It could be a funny variation if he's never had a serious relationship before because he spent literally all of his free time bodybuilding and doing weird muscle diets. So he's actually kind of an awkward dork.
@@michaelramon2411 There's literally a manhwa about this!! The MC and him are 30 year old (Korean age, so not sure, maybe late 20's) childhood friends who got pressured by societal and family to get married. MC is broke and the ML is awkward as hell, but he spend his time bodybuilding (it's hinted that he does because she mentioned her type of guy back then) and being fit/healthy.
Thanks for addressing all of these clichés, Jenna. The "Plain Girl who is wanted by virtually every guy she meets" always gets my goat. Bella Swan is definitely the epitome of this, she outright says that she's completely ordinary, but she has several different guys falling for her on her first day.
This!! Who does Stephenie Meyer think she's kidding with "oh Bella is based on my ideal teenage life"- Stevie are you telling me you wished you had the amount of covert narcissism disguised as humility your heroine demonstrates? That's a problem, you should talk to someone about that.
How about a twist on that? The "Plain girl who's wanted by every guy she meets" is because she's "not like other girls" in that she's the only one that's not a literal serial killer lunatic who's out to hunt down men and torture them to death with such methods as literally eating their genitals.
...and she has a boring personality to boot, which makes it more annoying! I also absolutely hate this trope on several levels. It's like, girl, you look fine, jeez.
@@Nope44bigpapA That's the gist of it, I cannot find a single reason why Bella and Edward are in love. "Attracted" to each other, okay, on a surface level I can see it. But "in love"? What personality do either of them have for anyone to fall in love with? Edward is pretty much a department store mannequin that's been spray painted with glitter, and Bella is actively unpleasant and dull as a piece of chalk.
a YA book where the protagonist goes to the grocery store and her dark and mysterious crush is in a flourescent blue work apron bagging groceries at checkout stand 3 would absolutely destroy me, that would be so funny
Writing teenage romances as THE ONE isn't a bad thing on its face, because that is how it can feel when you're a teen. Your whole world is that person, even if it's silly from a realistic perspective. I'd say the problem more lies in the book framing the relationship as THE ONE and never actually doing anything to challenge it, or if there is a challenge, don't have it be constantly dismissed as the wrong stance. Always love the "best friend who never admitted their feelings until right when their friend has decided to pursue someone else romantically" character. They always make the excuse of never saying anything because it would have risked the friendship, then proceed to ruin the friendship by acting like an entitled assbag for the rest of the story. As someone who values platonic friendships a lot, I'm so heccin tired of the best friend not staying as the best friend.
I so agree. I hate it when friendship does turn into love as if friendship is just nothing and not sustainable for a man and a woman long term. I am reading a really great fanfiction where the redeeming-catalyst woman is friends with the redemption-arc man and now they are developing feelings for each other. 😡 I understand that this is great for angst (the uncertainty) but I soo enjoyed them as friends and now they will ruin it and have their hearts broken plus again devalue friendship in exchange for ❤️love❤️ 🙄 And yes, platonic friendship is so wonderful, I would not have survived until now without.
@@angelika9396 - I don’t hate the friends-become-lovers trope so much as I hate the saturation of it in stories. It’s not unrealistic for some people to develop deeper feelings for their friends if they’ve been around them long enough. But the amount to which is depicted in fiction is disproportionate to reality. Honestly, one of my favourite platonics are Derek Morgan and Penelope Garcia from Criminal Minds (not a book, but still a good example). They have amazing chemistry, both when they tease each other with humour and when they support each other emotionally. Even though it might seem like they’ll become a couple, they never do; they’re just close friends who love each other as friends. I want more of that to balance out the insistence that men and women cannot love each other as platonic friends.
@@oliverford5367 - For sure. In the case of R&J, the story doesn’t frame the relationship as necessarily the best choice. Sure, it defies the nonsense and conflict caused by their families’ feud, but it also results in the senseless deaths of several characters, including themselves. Should they give up on a difficult love, not necessarily, but the play doesn’t make the “devotion” the absolute right decision either.
i never thought of that but you're so right! and none of the cultural baggage of prom so the more counterculture kids can enjoy the Big Dance without feeling like it's a popular kid thing
as a teen who reads a fair bit of YA, I've almost never related to the main character. "old souls" aren't what people want to read about I guess. I've always wished for a protagonist who doesn't struggle with grades, or with her body, but maybe deals with other things. It often seems like those are the only issues I'm allowed to have and it's frankly rather annoying because that's never been a big part of my experience. Give me girls who know they're smart and pretty who have to deal with the social flack of actually doing well in school. Girls who know their worth but are suffocating under all the pressure adults put on her for her so-called "potential." Girls who are a bit out of touch with their emotions. Where are these girls. Sophie Hatter from the book Howl's Moving Castle is the closest I've gotten. Sophie is a mood and I love her dearly. she really got turned into and old hag and just went with it. fantastic 10/10.
One of these days, I will put together a master list of Jenna's worst tropes and write a book with all of them. I'll either massively fail, or I'll never need to work again. lol
Consider this: A YA Teen Protagonist whose favorite book is The Great Gatsby because it was assigned reading at first, but she was surprised by how much she actually liked it and constantly argues with her English teacher because she 100% ships Nick x Gatsby and Daisy x Jordan.
Or has an inner dialogue assigning character names to people at school by their actions and is annoyed when they stray from the part and script she has assigned them.
@@katiehettinger7857 Would make an interesting villain, tbh. Assigning people a role and then forcing them to keep to it. The way to defeat them would be to introduce them to Wattpad.
You are so right about #3! Why can’t we have a leading lady who knows she’s pretty? Or-and the world might not be ready for this-one who’s legitimately unattractive? Or maybe her beauty or lack thereof isn’t relevant to the plot, so we get a neutral description of her appearance, e.g., “She was tall and light-skinned, with shoulder-length red hair, brown eyes, and lots of freckles,” and the audience can decide for themselves whether they find her attractive or not!
I think I can help with the last one! Although she's in her early 20s, so not a teen, but I have never thought of making her beauty relevant to the plot on any way. Her bravery and empathy is more important.
I write YA/NA, hoping to be published soon. My main beta reader has always been my oldest, who's now only 13 but she's a college reading level, so she's well read, but she would be right between my arms as I would write while she was younger. I try to write so SHE's not embarrassed to read it. All three of my kids like to pop in at random times while I'm writing, and naturally they like to read what I'm working on, so I write so I'M not embarrassed by what my 5 and 7 year olds see on the screen. The pros and cons of raising book dragons, though the only down side is I don't have enough room for all their books right now.
Isn't the desire to be immortal the under-pinning of much of teens dangerous behavioral. F*ck y'all, no teen I know would turn down being the chosen one with special powers, skills or cool stuff. The only way I can see the gig as being a turn off is, if it required them to live alone among adult monks, who were strict, humorous instructors for years and no one writes that book.
@@katiehettinger7857 the thing is, some teenagers have social anxiety. When I was 16 I couldn't even call the local pizza place to order takeout, becoming the face of a revolution and the planet's only hope would be a literal nightmare. It's rarely addressed in fiction, though. Would be interesting to read a story where the Chosen One is hard working and takes their magical training seriously but can't hold a speech in front of a crowd without breaking into tears. Whenever they have to appear in a public place their mentors/servants/friends let them wear a big hooded cloak, speak in their place and have to come up with increasingly weird reasons to let them leave early. As a result, the Chosen One is thought to be an intimidating and mysterious figure, and the scene is set for some hilarious misunderstandings. Guess I have to write this book now 😂
I don't think any teenager alive wants to be 'normal' unless they're bullied all the time. Then it'd be nice to be normal because 'normal' to them means 'people will leave me the fuck alone.' I would know.
Normal can also mean functioning to their full potential, so they're not stuck struggling all the time while everyone else around them seems to have it easy. I.e. depression, anxiety, etc. as ACTUAL health issues, to say nothing of learning disabilities.
My main question about adult writers who write immortals who are repeatedly going back to school: WHY!? They could JUST LIVE OUT IN THE WOODS?! AND WHY ARE THEY USUALLY THE LOVE INTEREST?
Why-if you remember in twilight, they had to be in school as to keep up the fiction why teen living because the authorities so Doctor Daddy couldckeep up his good work and from time to time turn a beautiful, nubile patient to save their life, but oddly none of the other teen vampires were going to school. Why not say, they being home schooled, surely they could pass the tests.
@@katiehettinger7857 I also still don't understand that one. Like god dang, Bella shouldn't have ended up with Edward (also not Jacob cause fuck that dude too.) She shoulda just gone to therapy and left that stuff behind. Smh
If they need to keep up the pretense just claim they are home-schooled. If I remember twilight correctly, Esme didn't work Carlisle was a doctor, it was plausible.
i used to be disgusted by immortal characters who dated teens, but i think i could get behind it if it were a situation where the character is trapped in their teenage personality (like a ghost or sth) and maybe the plot magic lets them unlock the potential for growth by the end of the book (or maybe they're tragically stuck and the protag has to grow past them, that could be cool). like, if they've had a lot of experiences, that's going to give them some amount of power in the relationship. but if they still don't have as much capacity to learn and grow and control their own lives, they're not really getting what an adult would from all those years. (i'd want a carmilla situation where they have a parental figure analogous to the teen's parents tho, bc providing for yourself does affect your "adultness" imo).
In general I'd say a character stuck in, say, 18-year old body yet living for 10000 years is something different from both an 18 years old and a 10000 years old, considering all the weird stuff going on with the body. Being a 10000 years old soul stuck in the body of hormonal 18 years old would likely lead to some anguish in its own right, and it'd be nice to see this actually addressed in a believable way. Then there are also characters who technically were around for really long time, but most of it was spent in some unconscious state (like hibernation or, in case of one of my characters, sealed away). Functionally, it would be like moving a relatively young character forward in time, since they wouldn't accumulate particular experiences that would make them more mature.
The remark at the beginning about you not being the target audience shouldn't matter. A work for children doesn't get to be bad just because children and teens are the audience.
True, but I sometimes see reviews of YA books and the adult reviewing the book goes, "the MC was soo immature, zero stars!" and I sit there and think, duh, the MC is a teenager.
@@TurtleJulia That's true, but I was talking about how there will be a piece of media and people will say "You're being too critical, it's just a kids show/book/movie/etc." Nah, kids media should be extra critical of these things since kids lack the discernment that adults do, and we don't want media to teach them the wrong lessons about things.
Or bad because the writer isn't a teen or child, let's face it kids and teens for the most part haven't the skill or chops to write a novel yet. Good fiction, no matter the target audience, should be well written and not a rehash of others' trending matterial.
Okay, so hear me out, a masquerade ball, but its so the hero and villain (regardless of gender) can talk and they can only talk because there's too many bystanders?
ah like the scene from The Dark Knight Rises between Bruce Wane and Cat Woman.. just a little less flirty (unless ur into that trope) and a bit more deadly
When I saw Twilight I couldn't understand why Edward had all of those graduation caps. Who would choose to go to high school for eternity? I mean, if he was in grade 12 when he became a vampire, he could easily pass as someone who already graduated.
I remember a time--a long ago age--just before "Twilight" blighted the shelves when YA was actually well-written, with good, realistic characters, and plots that even if they were fantastical still felt grounded, where the love interests weren't just 'dark and mysterious', but also well-rounded characters. Ah, those were the days :=) Great vid as always, keep it up :=)
As for trope #5, I'd take that any day over the opposite: "I'm 17 but I'm a general, a pirate ship captain and the best assassin in the world! All in one! Practice and experience is overrated, I'm a natural born talent."
That always feels like the author actually wanted them to be adults but aged them down to get into lucrative YA genre. It's why I had beef with the Six of Crows duology. No way were they actually teens.
@@rynctv It depends on which characters. Jasper for example reminds of Dex from Keepers of lost cities which is a teenager. But Kaz feels as adult a MC can be with that target in mind.
y'know the one explanation that'd make sense for the "immortal in high school" shtick is someone who's trying to stay on top of current trends, science, etc so they don't seem out of place. they're stuck in the same un-aging body so every decade or two they go on back, see where the books and social rules have kinda changed and such. like...if someone's immortal and the last time they were in school was 1823, they're probably gonna have some weird ideas on language, or who's considered "people" or not....
It has a poit, (I hope, that I used this phrase corectly..). But I think, that University is better enviroment for this. People are still young, but usually better informed about world, and school library has really higher level.
@@kerricaine Maybe, maybe no, in a lot of countries are public universities free. But yes, for (for example) american immortals it can be important factor.
@@michaelkolarik6189 University won't work if they aren't at that age. Plus, if you wanna be up-to-date on what's popular in the youth, university is a bit too old.
@@weridplusho For somebody 17 looks-like-old probably isnt problem say, that s/he is a few years older. My highschool classmate common visited near university"s library by using her brother"s door card, and nobody known, that she isnt university student.
Everything about the "immortal in a teenage body goes to high school" trope has always driven me up the wall. Forget the whole romantic age-gap issue (though you really shouldn't). These dudes have literal lifetimes to invest in learning new skills and traveling the globe (something any academic would kill for, myself included), and they never even leave their podunk hometown in the middle of nowhere.
As a young adult, I can assure you these tropes are partially why I mainly read non-romantic YA mangas, because even though those also have problems, I find it much easier to find ones that don't have those problems
1: "Dark and mysterious" could work if it's something like they're poor and that's all they could afford. Be a nice subversion of the dark guy being a douchebag jerk. 2: "Ancient teenagers attending high school"...well Aang's the exception since he was suspended but Avatar was smart enough to actually address that and make it work in a school setting that one time which was freaking hilarious, I love it. 3: Plain girl gets everyone....yeah I'm surprised we don't get more plain girl and plain guy stories. Like having that one person who likes you for you and has your back sounds way more fun than "girl who can't give a straight answer" and "guy with no reedemable qualities other than he's hot and acts like a jerk." 4 & 5: Ungrateful teenagers gaining superpowers. Why are they the chosen one....well it depends. If you have this amazing power and you're worried you don't know how to wield it, not prepared to fight monsters, or are poor/disadvantaged, part of you will question some things. But yeah, they should get better over the course of the story. 6: 30 year old women pretending to be 16 year olds...actually that could be a great story. A 30 year old woman longs for her youth and ends up de-aged into becoming a teen but has to go on these crazy teen adventures and realize she's not like what teens are. 7: Yeah this is a touchy subjects. Like publishing should take New Adult seriously. Like Book Tok girlies going after Legendborn and wondering if it's spicy when the protagonist haven't even reached 17 and dealing with the grief of her mother is kinda f-ed up when you think about. 8: Sassy brat teen heroines, ehh a female Tony Stark doesn't bother me, but there are some heroes and heroines with absolutely terrible treatment to their allies. 9: Epic teen romance. It depends on the execution. 10: Masquerade Bals...I never got that. I though the Wild Teen Party that always gets out of hand was the common one.
I feel like Rick Riordan handles the reluctant chosen one pretty well because the characters know that being chosen to do a task by the gods is not the greatest thing in the world. In fact the gods errands causes more harm than good.
I hate hearing the argument “don’t you know what teens are ACTUALLY doing” with regards to including overtly sexual situations and drug abuse “elements of real life” in the YA story. I teach high school. I know what they do. But for a kid who reads well above their “grade level”, these kind of books would be read by 11-12 year olds. So no, it shouldn’t be included. Want to read spicy and disturbing things even as a 17 year old? Walk to the adult fiction - it’s literally the next aisle.
Regarding #6... maybe it's because I'm not a 30 year old woman myself, but that doesn't necessarily sound like an old woman to me. It sounds more like the "not like other girls" trope. She's not like other girls because she doesn't like Starbucks drinks, she likes plain black coffee... Everyone else hates school and the required reading, but she doesn't understand why because she loves it... Etc., etc. Granted, I had my phase just like that not too long ago... 😅
Agreed! I can see why that might come off as a 30 something writing themselves into the story, but really it could just as easily come off as someone who wiser or more mature than their physical age. Of course I'm biased since I was the weird kid who did a book report on King's "The Green Mile" in middle school and in high school flummoxed my English teacher when I told her about how I agreed with a poem that seemed (to me) to be advocating euthanasia
When I was teenager, I red Gargantua and Pantagruel (satirical comedy from sixteen century), books written by Graham Greene, Moby Dick, Shakespeare's and Moliere's play, War with the Newts, satirical poems from nineteen century (Karel Havlíček Borovský probably isn't generally known in other countries...) , and it isnt part of required reading on my high school. Now, I am thirty and I read mystery books, superhero comics and similar things. When I finish work in my job, I need more something easy and fun, and for living in world, where war, economy crisis, high rent and so on are near things, I need something, where good defeat evil.
@@michaelkolarik6189 Yeah, I read a bunch of really complicated books as a teen (like some Oe Kenzaburo etc.) and did a lot of other things my peers considered uncool. Still hate coffee, though!
@@michaelkolarik6189 same here. As a middle school and high school kid I was all into the problems of the world and saving humanity, history buff and debate team leader. I read the newspaper everyday and was angry my peers didn't like "good books" and were "dumb because they fail at philosophy class". Now I just like to read fun stuff and light stuff, comic, fantasy books, etc.
'oh my stars' is a lovely phrase that will instantly give a young girl a very old-world attractive charm. Nothing wrong with things like that to set the character apart.
About the only reason I can think of that an immortal would want to go back to High School is that he likes his sexual conquests to be niave and easy to manipulate. Such a character would be squarely in the category of Evil Immortal.
'Carry On' by Rainbow Rowell was an awesome book if you want a collection of these tropes done right. The Chosen One is very specificly chosen to the point of being planned and hand-picked, his vampire boyfriend ages like a human being AND is the same age (not to mention the fact everyone knows he can be a not-so-nice guy but gets better), and the mentor dies but was the true bad guy of the story anyway.
Makes me want to write a: I saved the world when I was a teen and now I'm thirty and my life sucks because I fell for all these tropes story. The first chapter is a whiplash view of all these tropes. Then the rest of the book is like day to day of some mom that made horrible life decisions. Depressing but uplifting showing how they finally start there character arc when life start demanding they act like an adult. but these tropes keep trying to latching onto them and keep them from moving forward bring up all the trauma they never knew they were experiencing.
you should! that sounds so cool I really love books that's just day to day stuff without terribly huge disasters that disturb everything in the MC's daily routine. I would love to read this 10/10
I must admit, I have not read much YA fiction. However, after watching a few movie adaptations of YA fiction, the reluctant chosen one annoys the crap out of me. Especially if they spend the first 2 acts doing nothing but complain and/or try to convince everyone that they aren't the chosen one up until the last 10 minutes.
I read a ya book just a couple weeks ago where the author dedicated the book “too anyone who needs a glass of wine” The only problem in the US - where the author is from I googled to make sure- you need to be 21 to drink, so essentially she wrote a book marketed to teenage girls but was intended for grown women!
I was totally in crush with a dark mysterious guy in high school, so I followed him to his home (what can I say, I was 14.) Found out he stole bikes, took them apart and had parts sprawled across his lawn. He was only "mysterious" because he had a horrible stammer so he didn't like to talk much. He brought me in his room and tried to get me to get high with him. I was not interested in him after that. haha
My favorite subversion of the "immortals dating teenagers" trope is What We Do in the Shadows (movie). The love interest of one of the vampires is a 96 year old woman.
It sounds to me like the world needs an "Adult Young Adult" fiction genre. The same style and trappings as young adult fiction, but set more in the college days.
Yes! I had this conversation out loud in a bookstore with a friend when we were in our early 20s and our only options were YAs (we were tired of highschool and teens) or full adult in their almost 30s (which we weren't yet) novels. Where the F are the in-college MC? It was the greatest years to me and yet can't fine any fantasy novel with it :(
I really wish the publishing industry hadn't dismissed the "New Adult" genre--which is supposed to be that 18-24 age range that's adult but not "marriage and a mortgage" adult
3:39 On the "ancient teenager" trope, one thing that wasn't addressed is examples of immortality where a person's maturation and personality are also frozen in time. One example of that is the book Tuck Everlasting. In it there's a character called Jessie Tuck, who at 17 became immortal and is 104 by the time the protagonist Winnie Foster meets him. He's doesn't have the mind of a centenarian - his maturity, behavior, and worldview are all that of a 17 year old.
As someone who’s writing a YA comic rendition of Romeo and Juliet currently that focuses on the mental health aspects of the original story, I’m always discouraged by how it seems like I HAVE to write sex in order to fit in the genre because people are constantly saying it’s “unrealistic” if you don’t include it. It’s nice to see that other people are equally as weirded out by the trend as I am. When I was in high school just a few years ago, almost everyone I knew were virgins, even IF they were in a relationship. Everyone was terrified their parents were gonna catch them LMAO. I also keep in mind for every one of my projects, “am I writing something that I would’ve enjoyed when I was part of the target demographic?” I HATED the super angsty romantic stories like Twilight and my entire friend group would drag it constantly, so it doesn’t make sense for me to be holding my own work to that standard.
"If you do make her real plain...why can't her love interests be plain too?" Thank you so much for pointing that out. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've heard people (usually young girls, although I know guys who do the same) talk about how they're waiting for their very specific hot love interest to meet them one day but fail to realize how extremely high their unreasonable expectations are. Perhaps if the bar wasn't always set so high, readers wouldn't constantly be expecting the same thing in their reality only to eventually get disappointed, which is often how the conversation ends when someone talks about these descriptive future love interests. It really would be great to see more books whose cast of characters are from a more common demographic of real, normal people rather than only consisting of the one in a million individuals who are probably destined to be actors or models.
I think that the reason why the high school love interest is THE ONE all the time is because after the audience is invested in two characters and their relationship, no one really wants to deal with the aftermath of a relationship ending. The breakup would need a cause that is satisfactory to the audience who supposably ship the characters. Anything that implies or outright states that the main couple will break up makes the audience ask "Why did you make me get so invested in this relationship then?" A happy relationship is seen as important to a happy ending in any genre that has romance in the plot. I feel this is an area where fiction is often required to break with reality in order to fulfill the desires of the author and audience. There are probably exceptions to this but...yeah
9:12 THANK YOU. I've seen so many popular books marketed as YA with inappropriate scenes and older characters. As a teenager I'm struggling to find series that are clean but still have mature themes (like violence, war, grief, love, responsibility etc) that are actually written FOR TEENS. I'm hoping my own writing can be enjoyed by girls and boys my age (and of course adults if they want to read it).
I just thought I would float this idea in case anyone had an opinion on this since it’s fairly similar to the masquerade ball trope. In one of the wips I’ve been considering writing there’s one scene in which there is a ball and the MC and love interest are there to protect a member of royalty. They notice there is someone who looks like they’re going to stab the person they have to protect and in order to get there without the attack noticing is to join the dance and dance around other people in time to stop the attacker. And it’s kinda the point we’re the couple realize that what that have with other person might be more than banter and they might actually have feels for each other.
I recently read The Deadly Education, and the MC was exactly what you described with the sassy vs bratty. She was extremely rude to everyone, and it felt so unnecessary. Even the characters who supposedly "deserved it" because they were "phoney" usually just stood there and took it. Nobody was ever rude back - soooo realistic.
As an adult man who is working on a PhD in English literature with a focus on YA lit, I clicked on this video so fast! Some of us can take the joke and love you, Jenna!
My evil plan is to one day write a YA book where the epic romance is the plucky female protagonist's mom getting involved with the tall dark handsome stranger who was until that point the perceived villain but turns out it's a second chance romance between former "chosen ones" who were torn apart by their shitty destiny years ago who only wanted to stop the plucky female protagonist from suffering the way her mother suffered
For the number two one there's actually some possible explanations that thankfully don't involve weird stuff. Here's my list: -Are 'in with it' as in they just like being with younger people -Like high school extracurriculars (sports, clubs, etc.) -Where life is simple and predictable -Maybe they revel in high school drama -There's something special in that high school that holds special significance -Reduced-price lunch (see The Fourteenth Goldfish)
Thank you my aunt and uncle were high school sweethearts happily married had two kids and are now foster parents not that any of this is relevant but high school sweethearts can have happy marriages
For the unwilling chosen one I’m on their side when it comes to lost royalty mostly when the people telling them didn’t have a good reason not to tell in the first place. I understand if it’s a case like Rapunzel were they were kidnapped at birth and the person telling them has just found them or in the case of the princess diaries books were the person in question wasn’t expected to take the throne but something happened and know they have to. Mostly because they are told at 16-15 and normally have to take over straight away instead of you getting lessons on how to rule this blooming kingdom first.
In one of my stories, my protagonist kind of stumbles into being "the chosen one". Anyone from her race/bloodline could have done it; her mother began the task but abandoned it to save her younger sister from slavers. The protagonist continues down this road out of curiosity then finishes it out of necessity to defeat the final antagonist the series. The protagonist is 16 when she begins her journey because in that world the age of adulthood is 16 which means she is free to leave home and her over-protective aunt can't stop her. I want to keep my stories family friendly for the most part, meaning minimal swearing and fade-to-black love scenes(again minimal) but it still gets pretty violent at some points so I'm not sure what this series, or most of my stories, would fall under.
I think some of the issue with YA having too much adult content is actually some bookstores really mis-categorizing books. I remember being actually shocked at seeing "The Time Traveller's Wife" in YA. It is NOT a YA novel. Sure, the characters do spend some time as teens but more as adults. And the themes were extremely adult. There are some cross-over or grey area books. The Mistborn series by Sanderson can be reasonably shelved there. But sometimes I think booksellers are trying to off load excess stock in YA and playing loose with the category.
I admit, I wasn’t exactly your typical teenager. I didn’t drink, not even coffee (not for any moral reason, I’m just not good with trying new things.) I actually liked To Kill a Mockingbird even though it was required reading. Plus, my favorite TV show at the time was My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. So, I guess what I’m trying to say to future YA writers is: Not all teenagers are the same.
Yowch, the impersonations of teenagers gushing about their "first love" were so agonizingly perfect that they made me want to turn and walk directly into the ocean. Thank you for reminding me why I hate romance in general, and teen romance especially, whether real or fictional! :D Also, thank you for drawing my attention to masquerade balls as a common cliche/plot device! Teensy masks that cover half or less of your face are so 17th Century; I wanna see the characters fall in love at a furmeet or cosplay gathering while in full regalia, dammit.
Honestly, I vehemently dislike it that every love interest in every such book is always soooo gorgeous and the most handsome guy in school. Boring. Just let him be a normal guy, with maybe just a cute smile
Great list. Re: 5, There's a hilarious call out of Chosen Ones in Bard Tale, where a goblin chorus sings about how "A chosen one of many isn't new", while standing over the corpse of the latest dead Chosen One and commenting on how quickly they failed ;)
I actually read a good masquerade ball being used in one story. A husband and wife made a bet. If the husband could find his wife at the ball, she'd do one thing he requested. If he didn't, he'd have to agree to her divorce request. She conspired with the hostess and she had multiple body doubles to trick her husband while she changed her hair, wore a mask, and acted like a servant through the entire thing. He wore a bright pink bunny mascot suit. He let her win but they talked it out through this and they agreed to give their marriage another shot. Both of them were going through changes on their own and he didn't want to give up on her now that she was suddenly interesting. Great story really.
Those tropes were exactly why I could not get into all those YA movie adaptations that were coming out in droves not too long ago. Divergent? Hunger Games? Twilight? Maze Runner? All got my blood boiling just with the trailers because of the obvious tropes.
people recognize me in the walmart from behind with a different hair cut-- even when I don't want them to no way is a masquerade domino confusing that many people
I get the feeling that the middle aged readers demanding more adult themes from YA fiction are really seeking easier reads. I don't want to say dumbed down, but maybe a more pop sensibility where the author prioritizes the surface level events and action like a movie.
Agreed, I sometimes read kid's books like "Charolette's Web" (one of my favs) just because its easier on the brain, some 'adult' books you need a dictionary because the4 author apparently can't resist showing off that, yes, they have an English lit degree :=)
@@jaymartin8273 Nothing wrong with going with easy read, either once in a while or just as the go-to -solution. However, vocabulary only expands if you work on it. (And I am saying this as someone, who reads in English while not being native speaker.)
That moment when I realized I’m writing adult fiction and not YA anymore because I tend to ages my character around my own age (and include a little to a lot of erotica now that I’m older).
6:37 So yeah, my MC is a boring plain spotty kid with big glasses....he is a bumbling wise crackling idiot who makes a mess of everything, causes every problem going, is very sassy, has a strong attitude, and quite civil. Although he tries his best, but he often makes things worse, he gets in the way, or says the wrong thing. He complains a lot, he sighs every few seconds and although he knows nothing, he argues a lot, making pointless sentences and throw in weird insults. is he the chosen one? Only if he wins fights....he hates everything, doesn't want to get involved in anything and does his best to distract himself with something else, even though he hates it. He is always dragged into something and basically has to get other people involved to counteract a problem.
I don't know, show me a book where some angel, demigod, etc has committed a high crime and was sentenced to high school, and I'd read the shit out of it
For #9, I can't enjoy most ya romances cuz my ftm bum can't relate to any of the heteronormative situations. I didnt had the privilege to go out on dates and worry what who and who said on social media, so all those "conflicts" between the cishet teens that those books want me to care about look so miniscule and petty to me
To be fair, if I was told I was a "chosen one", I'd feel terrified! Because that'd mean HUGE responsibilities I haven't asked for and would even hate (saving the world? That's too big. Ruling a country? I can't even rule my own mind!). Being a nobody is delightful! The thing is, I'm not here to entertain people. In a book, if not well-written, such a character would just slow down the pace.
Your points about teens who say "oh my goodness" and also "sass" amuse me. I was a teen who actually talked like that.😅😅 The origin of the word "sassy" is _ALSO_ mouthing-off and talking-back[ i.e. sassing off]..exactly like a bit of a brat. Even if it was also sometimes justified by someone else overstepping a bit in some way or another, or by parents being a bit too overbearing even if unintentionally-so while their teens were learning to flex their metaphorical wings of independence or whatever. 😅🙃👀🤣😂 You can't really fault everyone for not using it in a reclaimed kind of way-both usages are still perfectly valid meanings of the word, honestly.
My protag is an senior in high school, grumpy af (it's the trama) and her love interest is a "19" year old vampire who only goes to school to protect her from the villan of the story 🤷♀️
As A Teen™️, I hate these tropes and so many ppl my age love them, esp the ancient love interest trope. Most of them are written by adults, which is so annoying and weird, bc…weren’t YOU a teen once? Did you forget what it was like or did you just suck at being a teen?
LMAOOOO I love the way you explained the mask's, I struggle to remember and recognise face's but if I have been around them for a long time then I'll recognise them lol
I don't write YA, but...Jenna, would you enjoy a scene at a masquerade ball in the 1700s with adults wearing physical and metaphorical masks where the cheating host husband is trying show unity with his wife to their guests, all the while using the opportunity to seek out his mistress (who's trying to lord that he loves her more), while his wife is sick of both the literal and metaphorical facade and uses the opportunity to get under her husband's skin and seeks out old lovers to dance with, all the while playing the role of a good hostess because divorce isn't a thing yet?
I think it's really interesting that the most readers of YA are adult women. I feel like it's mostly publishing's fault for the "YA" category. Clearly it appeals to more than teens and it ends up being an easy way to make fun of what women like to enjoy. Oh let's not forget that publishers put the books in that category despite the content. I think that's what's weird. Like WHY is ACOTAR YA? O.o
Oh, god, I've forgot about ACOTAR been YA. I forgot how old is the MC but if I have to wild guess I'd say 19 or 20. I read just 2 books of it and that felt like an adult fantasy not YA.
@La Nenufar yep! I truly dont think we should be blaming authors or readers for this when it's publishing companies putting all these books in the YA category. With self publishing, you follow the algorithm whether you want to or not. I think this stuff would be a nice conversation to have. I think even Maas said she didn't write ACOTAR as YA.
@@MekareP Yeah, totally publishing houses to blame and bookstores too!!! I worked at a bookstore (I'm from Mexico) and helped organized the YA section. The things that were list there got me all 🤨
Once you reach a certain mindset, Jenna, EVERYONE is the same, and that mindset usually is gained with age. It can be brought on by trauma, but age does the trick. I have a character who is an unknown Greek god who largely got washed out of mythology because his "Auntie Eris" overshadowed his aspect. He doesn't care, even by his standards. His goal is to learn all he can about emotions so that he can attain all he can regarding them because he cannot feel them. He even explained when asked by the main female that adults are burnt out emotionally and have nothing to learn from. Meanwhile, little kids have far too much energy. Teenagers are an agreeable balance, though most steer clear of him due to his vacant persona. Endearingly enough, he 'cares' more than anyone else in her life does. He doesn't feel it, but he tries to show it anyway.
Controversial opinion: Brats who actually improve and grow up (like, you know, a character arc) tend to be pretty satisfying to read/watch.
I don't care whether or not the protagonist is likeable. They just gotta be well written, and if they're a shitty person then I expect the story to treat them like a shitty person.
@@canada1529
Well, I wasn't necessarily talking about the MC. Maybe better for a secondary character.
Like Kuzco?
Bonus point if they realize their parent is a horrible person and tells them to shove it. Who doesn’t love Zuko sticking to the Fire Lord?
It's a shame that you have to get over the hump to even have a chance of knowing if they grow or the writer is just bad and they're destined to become a 40 y/o karen
"I've read books where the Chosen One does nothing but MAKE EVERYTHING WORSE."
Me: *Maybe I am the Chosen One*
book idea: the chosen one purposefully makes everything worse, but keeps on getting thwarted
@@auliamate So an ineffectual saboteur Chosen One? I like it.
Anakin Skywalker has entered the chat.
This is actually probably why people like it....because it makes people feel like, even when they're messing up, they can still be special or hopeful maybe. ? Loll (idekk) 😂
*THE CHOSEN ONES MUST BAND TOGETHER TO DESTROY THE WORLD*
Just this once, I'd like to read about a female protagonist who knows that she's pretty, but isn't vain about her beauty. Also, many High School relationships don't last beyond school, yet they're typically portrayed as THE one.
That will be actually nice for change :). On the "High School Great Love Interest" portrayed as "the one" I'm on the fence. On one hand we know that usually it last about two years average, but on the other... darn when I was teenager I really felt that my High School sweetheart is the "One". Spoiler alert - he wasn't XD
Yes, I would love for YA authors to realize that acknowledging your own beauty is not wrong. Besides, a good dose of vanity actually makes a character more entertaining. Why do you think people love Disney villains so much?
You might like the Throne of Glass series!
First character that comes to mind for me is Celeana Sardothien of the Throne of Glass series!
I actually recently read a series sort of like that. "Circle of Three" by Isobel Bird, the main character starts off book one wishing that she was less plain (example: that her hair wasn't a dirty blonde) and actually 'does' get the hunky jock, but only to find that by the time she starts dating him she's grown and matured as a person and eventually breaks it off because while she does still like him and he is a good guy, she's become a different person by this point :=)
The older I get, the less I understand why an immortal being would hang around a high school.
I felt the "I just personally can't get into it because I'm a jaded adult and I know too much" in my soul.
And also yeah, WTF is up with sexualizing minors?
I agree. Pretending to be somewhere between 20 and 40 makes much more sense, because your persona is an adult. Also, people age differently, so it may be easier to hide immortality. I mean, I met once (before the whole esthetic surgeries craze) a woman in her fourties that looked as if she were in her early twenties (she was also apparently a mafia boss, so being a vampire would fit nicely).
Precisely, I never got why the Cullens would voluntarily keep on attending high school, when they could simply go to college, or maybe they could try to pass off being in their early twenties, and get jobs.
Well, Twilight explained it as the younger they start out at a place, the longer they can stay in one place without everyone else getting suspicious.
@@thisistheaccountname Yes and that it's mentally exhausting for them having to keep moving to places and starting all over again. So they'd rather move less often.
Depending on how teenagery they look, they might have trouble hanging around in adult spaces. Even if they say "I'm actually twenty, here's my ID card", that ID is a fake, and after about 5-10 years they'll stand out even more.
It might be interesting to have a teenage immortal who actually mentally stays a teenager as well. I guess they'd be a bit Peter Pan-like
I actually like YA for the lack of overtly sexual scenes. I like romance as much as the next person, but not erotica. I prefer leaving things to imagination. Also, sometimes the steamy part overshadows the story and it bugs me.
Fair!
It hasn't escaped my notice, though, that people take it for granted that sex and nudity in any or all forms is off-limits, but creepy, toxic, sometimes-even-predatory relationship dynamics are okay, and explicit violence is also fine. Is that just an American quirk, or can we ground that apparent inconsistency in a sound rationale? (Obviously, depicting underage characters in certain kinds of "adult" situations would be creepy and, in some places, literally illegal.)
That's what gets me with EL James and her dirty fanfiction that became Fifty Shades.
She's a woman who in her FORTIES wrote a filthy story about a girl who is SEVENTEEN in the first Twilight Story and is in a BDSM relationship with a vampire that is trapped in his EIGHTEEN-year-old body. She then upped the ages to 21 and 25 when she rewrote it as FSOG to avoid a backlash.
Has she got an Epheb complex or something?
I try to avoid drawing erotic pictures any more because it tends to overshadow my other subjects and it's not as much fun as drawing dragons.
@@brianedwards7142 I saw a cover for a book of a well drawn dragon that had tits. Very uncomfy
@@parisheidi3119 😂
The trope of the teenage boy who looks like a 6'1" bodybuilder but is 15 years old. *Note: He is also compared to a living Adonis by the female protagonist. After a few scenes of exposing his abdominal muscles, it is revealed that despite his charismatic personality and flirtatious ways, he has not had any significant relationships in the past. The epitome of beauty and modesty, perfection personified.
you gotta wonder, what is wrong with him? where are his flaws hiding?
This! My highschool crush didn't evolved to sexy teen until we were 17/18. Before that? He looked a little dorky but cute. Zero building and zero shoulders and definetely no ABS XD
It could be a funny variation if he's never had a serious relationship before because he spent literally all of his free time bodybuilding and doing weird muscle diets. So he's actually kind of an awkward dork.
OK, no girls and all that, he's gay and hasn't accepted it yet. She's nice and an experiment in real life.
@@michaelramon2411 There's literally a manhwa about this!! The MC and him are 30 year old (Korean age, so not sure, maybe late 20's) childhood friends who got pressured by societal and family to get married. MC is broke and the ML is awkward as hell, but he spend his time bodybuilding (it's hinted that he does because she mentioned her type of guy back then) and being fit/healthy.
Thanks for addressing all of these clichés, Jenna. The "Plain Girl who is wanted by virtually every guy she meets" always gets my goat. Bella Swan is definitely the epitome of this, she outright says that she's completely ordinary, but she has several different guys falling for her on her first day.
The only character where it made any sense that he liked her was Jacob because they already knew each other.
This!! Who does Stephenie Meyer think she's kidding with "oh Bella is based on my ideal teenage life"- Stevie are you telling me you wished you had the amount of covert narcissism disguised as humility your heroine demonstrates? That's a problem, you should talk to someone about that.
How about a twist on that?
The "Plain girl who's wanted by every guy she meets" is because she's "not like other girls" in that she's the only one that's not a literal serial killer lunatic who's out to hunt down men and torture them to death with such methods as literally eating their genitals.
...and she has a boring personality to boot, which makes it more annoying!
I also absolutely hate this trope on several levels. It's like, girl, you look fine, jeez.
@@Nope44bigpapA That's the gist of it, I cannot find a single reason why Bella and Edward are in love. "Attracted" to each other, okay, on a surface level I can see it. But "in love"? What personality do either of them have for anyone to fall in love with? Edward is pretty much a department store mannequin that's been spray painted with glitter, and Bella is actively unpleasant and dull as a piece of chalk.
a YA book where the protagonist goes to the grocery store and her dark and mysterious crush is in a flourescent blue work apron bagging groceries at checkout stand 3 would absolutely destroy me, that would be so funny
I wanna write that
Writing teenage romances as THE ONE isn't a bad thing on its face, because that is how it can feel when you're a teen. Your whole world is that person, even if it's silly from a realistic perspective. I'd say the problem more lies in the book framing the relationship as THE ONE and never actually doing anything to challenge it, or if there is a challenge, don't have it be constantly dismissed as the wrong stance.
Always love the "best friend who never admitted their feelings until right when their friend has decided to pursue someone else romantically" character. They always make the excuse of never saying anything because it would have risked the friendship, then proceed to ruin the friendship by acting like an entitled assbag for the rest of the story. As someone who values platonic friendships a lot, I'm so heccin tired of the best friend not staying as the best friend.
I so agree. I hate it when friendship does turn into love as if friendship is just nothing and not sustainable for a man and a woman long term.
I am reading a really great fanfiction where the redeeming-catalyst woman is friends with the redemption-arc man and now they are developing feelings for each other. 😡
I understand that this is great for angst (the uncertainty) but I soo enjoyed them as friends and now they will ruin it and have their hearts broken plus again devalue friendship in exchange for ❤️love❤️ 🙄
And yes, platonic friendship is so wonderful, I would not have survived until now without.
@@angelika9396 - I don’t hate the friends-become-lovers trope so much as I hate the saturation of it in stories. It’s not unrealistic for some people to develop deeper feelings for their friends if they’ve been around them long enough. But the amount to which is depicted in fiction is disproportionate to reality.
Honestly, one of my favourite platonics are Derek Morgan and Penelope Garcia from Criminal Minds (not a book, but still a good example). They have amazing chemistry, both when they tease each other with humour and when they support each other emotionally. Even though it might seem like they’ll become a couple, they never do; they’re just close friends who love each other as friends. I want more of that to balance out the insistence that men and women cannot love each other as platonic friends.
@@oliverford5367 - For sure. In the case of R&J, the story doesn’t frame the relationship as necessarily the best choice. Sure, it defies the nonsense and conflict caused by their families’ feud, but it also results in the senseless deaths of several characters, including themselves. Should they give up on a difficult love, not necessarily, but the play doesn’t make the “devotion” the absolute right decision either.
The masquerade ball is just the fancier, "fantastical" version of the prom, which probably seems appealing to teens.
i never thought of that but you're so right! and none of the cultural baggage of prom so the more counterculture kids can enjoy the Big Dance without feeling like it's a popular kid thing
pretty much. prom is so 2001
When you steal, steal the best, it's Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare.
It’s also got the ‘masks are inherently badass’ factor
as a teen who reads a fair bit of YA, I've almost never related to the main character. "old souls" aren't what people want to read about I guess. I've always wished for a protagonist who doesn't struggle with grades, or with her body, but maybe deals with other things. It often seems like those are the only issues I'm allowed to have and it's frankly rather annoying because that's never been a big part of my experience. Give me girls who know they're smart and pretty who have to deal with the social flack of actually doing well in school. Girls who know their worth but are suffocating under all the pressure adults put on her for her so-called "potential." Girls who are a bit out of touch with their emotions. Where are these girls.
Sophie Hatter from the book Howl's Moving Castle is the closest I've gotten. Sophie is a mood and I love her dearly. she really got turned into and old hag and just went with it. fantastic 10/10.
im in this post and i don’t like it. i feel exposed 😭
I am currently reading Howl's Moving Castle, and I wholeheartedly agree. Sophie is great.
I mean howl’s moving castle is such an amazing book and Sophie might be the most relatable character of all times
My book scion comes out in a year and it literally has everything you asked for!
One of these days, I will put together a master list of Jenna's worst tropes and write a book with all of them. I'll either massively fail, or I'll never need to work again. lol
I'm rooting for you!
Need!!
Honestly, i think it will be a hit. since most thing Jenna hate is kinda popular.
It will be a best selling farce. 😂👍❤
Dew it!
Consider this: A YA Teen Protagonist whose favorite book is The Great Gatsby because it was assigned reading at first, but she was surprised by how much she actually liked it and constantly argues with her English teacher because she 100% ships Nick x Gatsby and Daisy x Jordan.
Or has an inner dialogue assigning character names to people at school by their actions and is annoyed when they stray from the part and script she has assigned them.
@@katiehettinger7857 Would make an interesting villain, tbh. Assigning people a role and then forcing them to keep to it. The way to defeat them would be to introduce them to Wattpad.
Ahhh dude I wrote my first 12th grade essay on that book. Everyone agrees that it felt like Nick and Gatsby had a connection.
@@VenomQuill "Witches Abroad"... just sayin' ;)
LITERALLYYYY LOL
You are so right about #3! Why can’t we have a leading lady who knows she’s pretty? Or-and the world might not be ready for this-one who’s legitimately unattractive? Or maybe her beauty or lack thereof isn’t relevant to the plot, so we get a neutral description of her appearance, e.g., “She was tall and light-skinned, with shoulder-length red hair, brown eyes, and lots of freckles,” and the audience can decide for themselves whether they find her attractive or not!
I think I can help with the last one! Although she's in her early 20s, so not a teen, but I have never thought of making her beauty relevant to the plot on any way. Her bravery and empathy is more important.
@@hungariangiraffe6361 I like your story already.
I want a female character that acknowledges her beauty and isn't portrayed as vain. Is it too much to ask?
I write YA/NA, hoping to be published soon. My main beta reader has always been my oldest, who's now only 13 but she's a college reading level, so she's well read, but she would be right between my arms as I would write while she was younger. I try to write so SHE's not embarrassed to read it. All three of my kids like to pop in at random times while I'm writing, and naturally they like to read what I'm working on, so I write so I'M not embarrassed by what my 5 and 7 year olds see on the screen. The pros and cons of raising book dragons, though the only down side is I don't have enough room for all their books right now.
Planning on using the royalties to add a library or two on the house?
@@kohakuaiko get a house first. At least 1 room is going to be a library/reading nook.
Three cheers for raising book dragons and writing witty, sensible teen characters for them to read about and aspire to emulate.😉👍❤
Loving a genre or a category of fiction does not mean you have to love all the clichés, the lazy elements or the derivative aspects.
"...these ungrateful teenagers, that's who." 😂😂😂😂
I would fully embrace being the chosen one with cool powers. Immediately. No hesitation.
Isn't the desire to be immortal the under-pinning of much of teens dangerous behavioral. F*ck y'all, no teen I know would turn down being the chosen one with special powers, skills or cool stuff. The only way I can see the gig as being a turn off is, if it required them to live alone among adult monks, who were strict, humorous instructors for years and no one writes that book.
Amen to that
@@katiehettinger7857 the thing is, some teenagers have social anxiety. When I was 16 I couldn't even call the local pizza place to order takeout, becoming the face of a revolution and the planet's only hope would be a literal nightmare.
It's rarely addressed in fiction, though. Would be interesting to read a story where the Chosen One is hard working and takes their magical training seriously but can't hold a speech in front of a crowd without breaking into tears. Whenever they have to appear in a public place their mentors/servants/friends let them wear a big hooded cloak, speak in their place and have to come up with increasingly weird reasons to let them leave early. As a result, the Chosen One is thought to be an intimidating and mysterious figure, and the scene is set for some hilarious misunderstandings. Guess I have to write this book now 😂
As a current teenager, I'm way too happy with my current life to go of and probably die because I'm kind of useless XD
I don't think any teenager alive wants to be 'normal' unless they're bullied all the time. Then it'd be nice to be normal because 'normal' to them means 'people will leave me the fuck alone.' I would know.
Normal can also mean functioning to their full potential, so they're not stuck struggling all the time while everyone else around them seems to have it easy. I.e. depression, anxiety, etc. as ACTUAL health issues, to say nothing of learning disabilities.
My main question about adult writers who write immortals who are repeatedly going back to school: WHY!? They could JUST LIVE OUT IN THE WOODS?! AND WHY ARE THEY USUALLY THE LOVE INTEREST?
Why-if you remember in twilight, they had to be in school as to keep up the fiction why teen living because the authorities so Doctor Daddy couldckeep up his good work and from time to time turn a beautiful, nubile patient to save their life, but oddly none of the other teen vampires were going to school. Why not say, they being home schooled, surely they could pass the tests.
@@katiehettinger7857 I also still don't understand that one. Like god dang, Bella shouldn't have ended up with Edward (also not Jacob cause fuck that dude too.) She shoulda just gone to therapy and left that stuff behind. Smh
If they need to keep up the pretense just claim they are home-schooled. If I remember twilight correctly, Esme didn't work Carlisle was a doctor, it was plausible.
i used to be disgusted by immortal characters who dated teens, but i think i could get behind it if it were a situation where the character is trapped in their teenage personality (like a ghost or sth) and maybe the plot magic lets them unlock the potential for growth by the end of the book (or maybe they're tragically stuck and the protag has to grow past them, that could be cool). like, if they've had a lot of experiences, that's going to give them some amount of power in the relationship. but if they still don't have as much capacity to learn and grow and control their own lives, they're not really getting what an adult would from all those years. (i'd want a carmilla situation where they have a parental figure analogous to the teen's parents tho, bc providing for yourself does affect your "adultness" imo).
In general I'd say a character stuck in, say, 18-year old body yet living for 10000 years is something different from both an 18 years old and a 10000 years old, considering all the weird stuff going on with the body. Being a 10000 years old soul stuck in the body of hormonal 18 years old would likely lead to some anguish in its own right, and it'd be nice to see this actually addressed in a believable way.
Then there are also characters who technically were around for really long time, but most of it was spent in some unconscious state (like hibernation or, in case of one of my characters, sealed away). Functionally, it would be like moving a relatively young character forward in time, since they wouldn't accumulate particular experiences that would make them more mature.
The remark at the beginning about you not being the target audience shouldn't matter. A work for children doesn't get to be bad just because children and teens are the audience.
@@dan_mnght No, my primary point was that a work doesn't get to use "but it's for children" as an excuse for being bad.
True, but I sometimes see reviews of YA books and the adult reviewing the book goes, "the MC was soo immature, zero stars!" and I sit there and think, duh, the MC is a teenager.
@@TurtleJulia That's true, but I was talking about how there will be a piece of media and people will say "You're being too critical, it's just a kids show/book/movie/etc."
Nah, kids media should be extra critical of these things since kids lack the discernment that adults do, and we don't want media to teach them the wrong lessons about things.
@@FurTheWorkers Oh, definitely! Kids' media still needs to make sense and avoid harmful tropes.
Or bad because the writer isn't a teen or child, let's face it kids and teens for the most part haven't the skill or chops to write a novel yet. Good fiction, no matter the target audience, should be well written and not a rehash of others' trending matterial.
Running the mile in PE sucked. You couldn’t make me do that again, even under penalty of death- they’re both the same.
Okay, so hear me out, a masquerade ball, but its so the hero and villain (regardless of gender) can talk and they can only talk because there's too many bystanders?
ah like the scene from The Dark Knight Rises between Bruce Wane and Cat Woman.. just a little less flirty (unless ur into that trope) and a bit more deadly
When I saw Twilight I couldn't understand why Edward had all of those graduation caps. Who would choose to go to high school for eternity? I mean, if he was in grade 12 when he became a vampire, he could easily pass as someone who already graduated.
I remember a time--a long ago age--just before "Twilight" blighted the shelves when YA was actually well-written, with good, realistic characters, and plots that even if they were fantastical still felt grounded, where the love interests weren't just 'dark and mysterious', but also well-rounded characters. Ah, those were the days :=)
Great vid as always, keep it up :=)
You just have to find the right YA books
@@weirdnerdygoat Yes, but thanks to Twilight that's getting harder and harder sadly :=-(
As for trope #5, I'd take that any day over the opposite: "I'm 17 but I'm a general, a pirate ship captain and the best assassin in the world! All in one! Practice and experience is overrated, I'm a natural born talent."
That always feels like the author actually wanted them to be adults but aged them down to get into lucrative YA genre. It's why I had beef with the Six of Crows duology. No way were they actually teens.
@@rynctv It depends on which characters. Jasper for example reminds of Dex from Keepers of lost cities which is a teenager. But Kaz feels as adult a MC can be with that target in mind.
y'know the one explanation that'd make sense for the "immortal in high school" shtick is someone who's trying to stay on top of current trends, science, etc so they don't seem out of place. they're stuck in the same un-aging body so every decade or two they go on back, see where the books and social rules have kinda changed and such. like...if someone's immortal and the last time they were in school was 1823, they're probably gonna have some weird ideas on language, or who's considered "people" or not....
It has a poit, (I hope, that I used this phrase corectly..). But I think, that University is better enviroment for this. People are still young, but usually better informed about world, and school library has really higher level.
@@michaelkolarik6189 true but university cost thousands of dollars, high school probably less lol
@@kerricaine Maybe, maybe no, in a lot of countries are public universities free. But yes, for (for example) american immortals it can be important factor.
@@michaelkolarik6189 University won't work if they aren't at that age. Plus, if you wanna be up-to-date on what's popular in the youth, university is a bit too old.
@@weridplusho For somebody 17 looks-like-old probably isnt problem say, that s/he is a few years older. My highschool classmate common visited near university"s library by using her brother"s door card, and nobody known, that she isnt university student.
Japanese 5,000 year old dragon loli × American 18th century vampire
haha i thought the same
the perfect power couple.
Everything about the "immortal in a teenage body goes to high school" trope has always driven me up the wall. Forget the whole romantic age-gap issue (though you really shouldn't). These dudes have literal lifetimes to invest in learning new skills and traveling the globe (something any academic would kill for, myself included), and they never even leave their podunk hometown in the middle of nowhere.
As a young adult, I can assure you these tropes are partially why I mainly read non-romantic YA mangas, because even though those also have problems, I find it much easier to find ones that don't have those problems
1: "Dark and mysterious" could work if it's something like they're poor and that's all they could afford. Be a nice subversion of the dark guy being a douchebag jerk.
2: "Ancient teenagers attending high school"...well Aang's the exception since he was suspended but Avatar was smart enough to actually address that and make it work in a school setting that one time which was freaking hilarious, I love it.
3: Plain girl gets everyone....yeah I'm surprised we don't get more plain girl and plain guy stories. Like having that one person who likes you for you and has your back sounds way more fun than "girl who can't give a straight answer" and "guy with no reedemable qualities other than he's hot and acts like a jerk."
4 & 5: Ungrateful teenagers gaining superpowers. Why are they the chosen one....well it depends. If you have this amazing power and you're worried you don't know how to wield it, not prepared to fight monsters, or are poor/disadvantaged, part of you will question some things. But yeah, they should get better over the course of the story.
6: 30 year old women pretending to be 16 year olds...actually that could be a great story. A 30 year old woman longs for her youth and ends up de-aged into becoming a teen but has to go on these crazy teen adventures and realize she's not like what teens are.
7: Yeah this is a touchy subjects. Like publishing should take New Adult seriously. Like Book Tok girlies going after Legendborn and wondering if it's spicy when the protagonist haven't even reached 17 and dealing with the grief of her mother is kinda f-ed up when you think about.
8: Sassy brat teen heroines, ehh a female Tony Stark doesn't bother me, but there are some heroes and heroines with absolutely terrible treatment to their allies.
9: Epic teen romance. It depends on the execution.
10: Masquerade Bals...I never got that. I though the Wild Teen Party that always gets out of hand was the common one.
I feel like Rick Riordan handles the reluctant chosen one pretty well because the characters know that being chosen to do a task by the gods is not the greatest thing in the world. In fact the gods errands causes more harm than good.
True... OwO
Right and when being a demigod means you are hunted by monsters and stuff hell I would just want to be normal too
@@denise6240 same
Truth. Uncle Rick is an amazing writer.
“Reluctant chosen one” also reminds me of the ProZd video “A guy who really doesn’t want to be the main character in an anime”.
I hate hearing the argument “don’t you know what teens are ACTUALLY doing” with regards to including overtly sexual situations and drug abuse “elements of real life” in the YA story. I teach high school. I know what they do. But for a kid who reads well above their “grade level”, these kind of books would be read by 11-12 year olds. So no, it shouldn’t be included. Want to read spicy and disturbing things even as a 17 year old? Walk to the adult fiction - it’s literally the next aisle.
That wizard thousands of years ago was way off in choosing the screw-up in high school, Mike, to save the world.
Regarding #6... maybe it's because I'm not a 30 year old woman myself, but that doesn't necessarily sound like an old woman to me. It sounds more like the "not like other girls" trope. She's not like other girls because she doesn't like Starbucks drinks, she likes plain black coffee... Everyone else hates school and the required reading, but she doesn't understand why because she loves it... Etc., etc. Granted, I had my phase just like that not too long ago... 😅
Agreed! I can see why that might come off as a 30 something writing themselves into the story, but really it could just as easily come off as someone who wiser or more mature than their physical age. Of course I'm biased since I was the weird kid who did a book report on King's "The Green Mile" in middle school and in high school flummoxed my English teacher when I told her about how I agreed with a poem that seemed (to me) to be advocating euthanasia
When I was teenager, I red Gargantua and Pantagruel (satirical comedy from sixteen century), books written by Graham Greene, Moby Dick, Shakespeare's and Moliere's play, War with the Newts, satirical poems from nineteen century (Karel Havlíček Borovský probably isn't generally known in other countries...) , and it isnt part of required reading on my high school.
Now, I am thirty and I read mystery books, superhero comics and similar things. When I finish work in my job, I need more something easy and fun, and for living in world, where war, economy crisis, high rent and so on are near things, I need something, where good defeat evil.
@@michaelkolarik6189 Yeah, I read a bunch of really complicated books as a teen (like some Oe Kenzaburo etc.) and did a lot of other things my peers considered uncool. Still hate coffee, though!
@@michaelkolarik6189 same here.
As a middle school and high school kid I was all into the problems of the world and saving humanity, history buff and debate team leader. I read the newspaper everyday and was angry my peers didn't like "good books" and were "dumb because they fail at philosophy class".
Now I just like to read fun stuff and light stuff, comic, fantasy books, etc.
'oh my stars' is a lovely phrase that will instantly give a young girl a very old-world attractive charm. Nothing wrong with things like that to set the character apart.
About the only reason I can think of that an immortal would want to go back to High School is that he likes his sexual conquests to be niave and easy to manipulate. Such a character would be squarely in the category of Evil Immortal.
Ew. Makes sense, but also ew :=)
have a villian who's been turning teenagers throughout the centuries into supernatural muses precisely for the reasons you just described.
to be honest if you've been living for 100+ years, any conquest would be naive and easy to manipulate.
'Carry On' by Rainbow Rowell was an awesome book if you want a collection of these tropes done right. The Chosen One is very specificly chosen to the point of being planned and hand-picked, his vampire boyfriend ages like a human being AND is the same age (not to mention the fact everyone knows he can be a not-so-nice guy but gets better), and the mentor dies but was the true bad guy of the story anyway.
Makes me want to write a: I saved the world when I was a teen and now I'm thirty and my life sucks because I fell for all these tropes story. The first chapter is a whiplash view of all these tropes. Then the rest of the book is like day to day of some mom that made horrible life decisions. Depressing but uplifting showing how they finally start there character arc when life start demanding they act like an adult. but these tropes keep trying to latching onto them and keep them from moving forward bring up all the trauma they never knew they were experiencing.
Not a book, but you might like The Kid Detective, which is basically a drama-comedy about an adult who used to be a child genius who solved mysteries.
you should! that sounds so cool
I really love books that's just day to day stuff without terribly huge disasters that disturb everything in the MC's daily routine. I would love to read this
10/10
@@gallaxyk9095 Thanks, I'll keep in my back pocket. It's something that would be really fun to write with my wife. When I get married...
I must admit, I have not read much YA fiction. However, after watching a few movie adaptations of YA fiction, the reluctant chosen one annoys the crap out of me. Especially if they spend the first 2 acts doing nothing but complain and/or try to convince everyone that they aren't the chosen one up until the last 10 minutes.
I read a ya book just a couple weeks ago where the author dedicated the book “too anyone who needs a glass of wine” The only problem in the US - where the author is from I googled to make sure- you need to be 21 to drink, so essentially she wrote a book marketed to teenage girls but was intended for grown women!
She should' moved to Canada, lol
1. Twilight. Gotcha.
2. Oh, right. Twilight.
3. Are we still talking about Twilight?
I mean, you’re not wrong…
I was totally in crush with a dark mysterious guy in high school, so I followed him to his home (what can I say, I was 14.) Found out he stole bikes, took them apart and had parts sprawled across his lawn. He was only "mysterious" because he had a horrible stammer so he didn't like to talk much. He brought me in his room and tried to get me to get high with him. I was not interested in him after that. haha
Thank goodness
My favorite subversion of the "immortals dating teenagers" trope is What We Do in the Shadows (movie). The love interest of one of the vampires is a 96 year old woman.
It sounds to me like the world needs an "Adult Young Adult" fiction genre.
The same style and trappings as young adult fiction, but set more in the college days.
Yes! I had this conversation out loud in a bookstore with a friend when we were in our early 20s and our only options were YAs (we were tired of highschool and teens) or full adult in their almost 30s (which we weren't yet) novels. Where the F are the in-college MC? It was the greatest years to me and yet can't fine any fantasy novel with it :(
I really wish the publishing industry hadn't dismissed the "New Adult" genre--which is supposed to be that 18-24 age range that's adult but not "marriage and a mortgage" adult
So Arcane.
Yes! Finally someone seperates Sassy from Bratty!!!
3:39
On the "ancient teenager" trope, one thing that wasn't addressed is examples of immortality where a person's maturation and personality are also frozen in time. One example of that is the book Tuck Everlasting. In it there's a character called Jessie Tuck, who at 17 became immortal and is 104 by the time the protagonist Winnie Foster meets him. He's doesn't have the mind of a centenarian - his maturity, behavior, and worldview are all that of a 17 year old.
As someone who’s writing a YA comic rendition of Romeo and Juliet currently that focuses on the mental health aspects of the original story, I’m always discouraged by how it seems like I HAVE to write sex in order to fit in the genre because people are constantly saying it’s “unrealistic” if you don’t include it. It’s nice to see that other people are equally as weirded out by the trend as I am. When I was in high school just a few years ago, almost everyone I knew were virgins, even IF they were in a relationship. Everyone was terrified their parents were gonna catch them LMAO.
I also keep in mind for every one of my projects, “am I writing something that I would’ve enjoyed when I was part of the target demographic?” I HATED the super angsty romantic stories like Twilight and my entire friend group would drag it constantly, so it doesn’t make sense for me to be holding my own work to that standard.
Queen Jenna has posted. TROOPS, ASSEMBLE!
*Run pass Forrest Gump, dodge a love triangle, touch home base* I'm here!
JENNA IS THE BEST AND WHENEVER I NEED HELP WITH WRITING I ALWAYS COME TO HER
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
"If you do make her real plain...why can't her love interests be plain too?" Thank you so much for pointing that out.
I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've heard people (usually young girls, although I know guys who do the same) talk about how they're waiting for their very specific hot love interest to meet them one day but fail to realize how extremely high their unreasonable expectations are. Perhaps if the bar wasn't always set so high, readers wouldn't constantly be expecting the same thing in their reality only to eventually get disappointed, which is often how the conversation ends when someone talks about these descriptive future love interests.
It really would be great to see more books whose cast of characters are from a more common demographic of real, normal people rather than only consisting of the one in a million individuals who are probably destined to be actors or models.
I think that the reason why the high school love interest is THE ONE all the time is because after the audience is invested in two characters and their relationship, no one really wants to deal with the aftermath of a relationship ending. The breakup would need a cause that is satisfactory to the audience who supposably ship the characters. Anything that implies or outright states that the main couple will break up makes the audience ask "Why did you make me get so invested in this relationship then?" A happy relationship is seen as important to a happy ending in any genre that has romance in the plot.
I feel this is an area where fiction is often required to break with reality in order to fulfill the desires of the author and audience. There are probably exceptions to this but...yeah
10:30
I married my middleschool sweetheart. And I love her to death! But most people aren't as lucky to have a relationship worth keeping at that age
Growing up I loved The Babysitters Club, Sweet Valley High, Nancy Drew, Judy Blume books - all such classics!!
'you are the long lost son of king Arthur' ...yeah, didn't turn out that well for Mordred :)
9:12 THANK YOU. I've seen so many popular books marketed as YA with inappropriate scenes and older characters. As a teenager I'm struggling to find series that are clean but still have mature themes (like violence, war, grief, love, responsibility etc) that are actually written FOR TEENS. I'm hoping my own writing can be enjoyed by girls and boys my age (and of course adults if they want to read it).
I just thought I would float this idea in case anyone had an opinion on this since it’s fairly similar to the masquerade ball trope. In one of the wips I’ve been considering writing there’s one scene in which there is a ball and the MC and love interest are there to protect a member of royalty. They notice there is someone who looks like they’re going to stab the person they have to protect and in order to get there without the attack noticing is to join the dance and dance around other people in time to stop the attacker. And it’s kinda the point we’re the couple realize that what that have with other person might be more than banter and they might actually have feels for each other.
Thank you Jenna for making this trope video on Teenage / Young Adult tropes and for mentioning me. Love your videos! ❤️
I recently read The Deadly Education, and the MC was exactly what you described with the sassy vs bratty. She was extremely rude to everyone, and it felt so unnecessary. Even the characters who supposedly "deserved it" because they were "phoney" usually just stood there and took it. Nobody was ever rude back - soooo realistic.
As an adult man who is working on a PhD in English literature with a focus on YA lit, I clicked on this video so fast! Some of us can take the joke and love you, Jenna!
GRANDPA CHAD! 💀
Bahahaha 😂
My evil plan is to one day write a YA book where the epic romance is the plucky female protagonist's mom getting involved with the tall dark handsome stranger who was until that point the perceived villain but turns out it's a second chance romance between former "chosen ones" who were torn apart by their shitty destiny years ago who only wanted to stop the plucky female protagonist from suffering the way her mother suffered
I would read the crap out of that! yes please link me in the future!
For the number two one there's actually some possible explanations that thankfully don't involve weird stuff. Here's my list:
-Are 'in with it' as in they just like being with younger people
-Like high school extracurriculars (sports, clubs, etc.)
-Where life is simple and predictable
-Maybe they revel in high school drama
-There's something special in that high school that holds special significance
-Reduced-price lunch (see The Fourteenth Goldfish)
...a vampire who only goes to school to revel in the immature drama like an irl sitcom would be an amazing comedy.
Me married to my high school sweetheart for near a decade with two kids and still happy nervously sweating over here
Thank you my aunt and uncle were high school sweethearts happily married had two kids and are now foster parents not that any of this is relevant but high school sweethearts can have happy marriages
For the unwilling chosen one I’m on their side when it comes to lost royalty mostly when the people telling them didn’t have a good reason not to tell in the first place.
I understand if it’s a case like Rapunzel were they were kidnapped at birth and the person telling them has just found them or in the case of the princess diaries books were the person in question wasn’t expected to take the throne but something happened and know they have to.
Mostly because they are told at 16-15 and normally have to take over straight away instead of you getting lessons on how to rule this blooming kingdom first.
In one of my stories, my protagonist kind of stumbles into being "the chosen one".
Anyone from her race/bloodline could have done it; her mother began the task but abandoned it to save her younger sister from slavers.
The protagonist continues down this road out of curiosity then finishes it out of necessity to defeat the final antagonist the series.
The protagonist is 16 when she begins her journey because in that world the age of adulthood is 16 which means she is free to leave home and her over-protective aunt can't stop her.
I want to keep my stories family friendly for the most part, meaning minimal swearing and fade-to-black love scenes(again minimal) but it still gets pretty violent at some points so I'm not sure what this series, or most of my stories, would fall under.
I think some of the issue with YA having too much adult content is actually some bookstores really mis-categorizing books. I remember being actually shocked at seeing "The Time Traveller's Wife" in YA. It is NOT a YA novel. Sure, the characters do spend some time as teens but more as adults. And the themes were extremely adult. There are some cross-over or grey area books. The Mistborn series by Sanderson can be reasonably shelved there. But sometimes I think booksellers are trying to off load excess stock in YA and playing loose with the category.
I admit, I wasn’t exactly your typical teenager. I didn’t drink, not even coffee (not for any moral reason, I’m just not good with trying new things.) I actually liked To Kill a Mockingbird even though it was required reading. Plus, my favorite TV show at the time was My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. So, I guess what I’m trying to say to future YA writers is: Not all teenagers are the same.
Yowch, the impersonations of teenagers gushing about their "first love" were so agonizingly perfect that they made me want to turn and walk directly into the ocean. Thank you for reminding me why I hate romance in general, and teen romance especially, whether real or fictional! :D
Also, thank you for drawing my attention to masquerade balls as a common cliche/plot device! Teensy masks that cover half or less of your face are so 17th Century; I wanna see the characters fall in love at a furmeet or cosplay gathering while in full regalia, dammit.
as a teen with crushes, lemme tell you, those were PAINFULLY accurate to me gushing about a guy im sweet on.
like i feel called out lmao
Okay, first one to write their YA protagonists meeting at furry convention without negative furry stereotypes wins!
@@VenomQuill yes that's what I need in life
Thank you so much Jenna for addressing this ❤
Honestly, I vehemently dislike it that every love interest in every such book is always soooo gorgeous and the most handsome guy in school. Boring. Just let him be a normal guy, with maybe just a cute smile
I feel like this video can be accurately summarized as "damn kids". I relate so hard to this.
Great list. Re: 5, There's a hilarious call out of Chosen Ones in Bard Tale, where a goblin chorus sings about how "A chosen one of many isn't new", while standing over the corpse of the latest dead Chosen One and commenting on how quickly they failed ;)
I actually read a good masquerade ball being used in one story. A husband and wife made a bet. If the husband could find his wife at the ball, she'd do one thing he requested. If he didn't, he'd have to agree to her divorce request. She conspired with the hostess and she had multiple body doubles to trick her husband while she changed her hair, wore a mask, and acted like a servant through the entire thing. He wore a bright pink bunny mascot suit. He let her win but they talked it out through this and they agreed to give their marriage another shot. Both of them were going through changes on their own and he didn't want to give up on her now that she was suddenly interesting. Great story really.
Omg the comment about "hard alcohol mixed with mount. Dew"💀💀💀
I am binging all your videos not only for the wonderful tips but your sense of humour is SPOT ON! Love it!
Those tropes were exactly why I could not get into all those YA movie adaptations that were coming out in droves not too long ago. Divergent? Hunger Games? Twilight? Maze Runner? All got my blood boiling just with the trailers because of the obvious tropes.
people recognize me in the walmart from behind with a different hair cut-- even when I don't want them to
no way is a masquerade domino confusing that many people
As a young adult, I never really saw the flaws in some of these tropes until now and I’m really glad you pointed this out!! Plus this was hilarious 🤣
I was gonna point at number 6 as my favorite rant until 7 came up.
Thank u for covering this. Your humor made me feel so much better❤️
I get the feeling that the middle aged readers demanding more adult themes from YA fiction are really seeking easier reads. I don't want to say dumbed down, but maybe a more pop sensibility where the author prioritizes the surface level events and action like a movie.
Agreed, I sometimes read kid's books like "Charolette's Web" (one of my favs) just because its easier on the brain, some 'adult' books you need a dictionary because the4 author apparently can't resist showing off that, yes, they have an English lit degree :=)
@@jaymartin8273 Nothing wrong with going with easy read, either once in a while or just as the go-to -solution. However, vocabulary only expands if you work on it. (And I am saying this as someone, who reads in English while not being native speaker.)
That moment when I realized I’m writing adult fiction and not YA anymore because I tend to ages my character around my own age (and include a little to a lot of erotica now that I’m older).
6:37 So yeah, my MC is a boring plain spotty kid with big glasses....he is a bumbling wise crackling idiot who makes a mess of everything, causes every problem going, is very sassy, has a strong attitude, and quite civil. Although he tries his best, but he often makes things worse, he gets in the way, or says the wrong thing. He complains a lot, he sighs every few seconds and although he knows nothing, he argues a lot, making pointless sentences and throw in weird insults. is he the chosen one? Only if he wins fights....he hates everything, doesn't want to get involved in anything and does his best to distract himself with something else, even though he hates it. He is always dragged into something and basically has to get other people involved to counteract a problem.
I don't know, show me a book where some angel, demigod, etc has committed a high crime and was sentenced to high school, and I'd read the shit out of it
That benzoyl peroxide line hit a little too close to home XD
I’m writing YA but the main character is way younger than a teenager-
For #9, I can't enjoy most ya romances cuz my ftm bum can't relate to any of the heteronormative situations.
I didnt had the privilege to go out on dates and worry what who and who said on social media, so all those "conflicts" between the cishet teens that those books want me to care about look so miniscule and petty to me
To be fair, if I was told I was a "chosen one", I'd feel terrified! Because that'd mean HUGE responsibilities I haven't asked for and would even hate (saving the world? That's too big. Ruling a country? I can't even rule my own mind!). Being a nobody is delightful!
The thing is, I'm not here to entertain people. In a book, if not well-written, such a character would just slow down the pace.
Your points about teens who say "oh my goodness" and also "sass" amuse me.
I was a teen who actually talked like that.😅😅
The origin of the word "sassy" is _ALSO_ mouthing-off and talking-back[ i.e. sassing off]..exactly like a bit of a brat. Even if it was also sometimes justified by someone else overstepping a bit in some way or another, or by parents being a bit too overbearing even if unintentionally-so while their teens were learning to flex their metaphorical wings of independence or whatever. 😅🙃👀🤣😂
You can't really fault everyone for not using it in a reclaimed kind of way-both usages are still perfectly valid meanings of the word, honestly.
Can't believe you didn't mentioned insta-love. It's all over YA and it's so fucking annoying
I do enjoy this in fanfic. But that's because the chemistry was there in source material
My protag is an senior in high school, grumpy af (it's the trama) and her love interest is a "19" year old vampire who only goes to school to protect her from the villan of the story 🤷♀️
As A Teen™️, I hate these tropes and so many ppl my age love them, esp the ancient love interest trope. Most of them are written by adults, which is so annoying and weird, bc…weren’t YOU a teen once? Did you forget what it was like or did you just suck at being a teen?
This is the first time i came across your channel, but I definitely enjoyed it. I'd love for you to do a Mistborn review!
Oooh yes I love Mistborn! I'd love to see it
LMAOOOO I love the way you explained the mask's, I struggle to remember and recognise face's but if I have been around them for a long time then I'll recognise them lol
Yoo I needed this
I don't write YA, but...Jenna, would you enjoy a scene at a masquerade ball in the 1700s with adults wearing physical and metaphorical masks where the cheating host husband is trying show unity with his wife to their guests, all the while using the opportunity to seek out his mistress (who's trying to lord that he loves her more), while his wife is sick of both the literal and metaphorical facade and uses the opportunity to get under her husband's skin and seeks out old lovers to dance with, all the while playing the role of a good hostess because divorce isn't a thing yet?
I think it's really interesting that the most readers of YA are adult women. I feel like it's mostly publishing's fault for the "YA" category. Clearly it appeals to more than teens and it ends up being an easy way to make fun of what women like to enjoy. Oh let's not forget that publishers put the books in that category despite the content. I think that's what's weird. Like WHY is ACOTAR YA? O.o
Oh, god, I've forgot about ACOTAR been YA. I forgot how old is the MC but if I have to wild guess I'd say 19 or 20. I read just 2 books of it and that felt like an adult fantasy not YA.
@La Nenufar yep! I truly dont think we should be blaming authors or readers for this when it's publishing companies putting all these books in the YA category. With self publishing, you follow the algorithm whether you want to or not. I think this stuff would be a nice conversation to have. I think even Maas said she didn't write ACOTAR as YA.
@@MekareP Yeah, totally publishing houses to blame and bookstores too!!! I worked at a bookstore (I'm from Mexico) and helped organized the YA section. The things that were list there got me all 🤨
The moment there is "She met a mysterious boy", i will throw the book out
Perfekt take 👏👏👏
No Jenna, not my masquerade ball :(
Okay, but what if their "being the chosen one" is cool. But so far it mostly caused them and people close to them suffering
Once you reach a certain mindset, Jenna, EVERYONE is the same, and that mindset usually is gained with age. It can be brought on by trauma, but age does the trick. I have a character who is an unknown Greek god who largely got washed out of mythology because his "Auntie Eris" overshadowed his aspect. He doesn't care, even by his standards. His goal is to learn all he can about emotions so that he can attain all he can regarding them because he cannot feel them. He even explained when asked by the main female that adults are burnt out emotionally and have nothing to learn from. Meanwhile, little kids have far too much energy. Teenagers are an agreeable balance, though most steer clear of him due to his vacant persona. Endearingly enough, he 'cares' more than anyone else in her life does. He doesn't feel it, but he tries to show it anyway.