One time my dad told me, "I'm tired of these westerns killing off a man's whole family and burning down his ranch to create a revenge story. Back in my day, you just shot his horse." So yes, this is definitely enough to motivate a guy xD
But since a woman hasn't lived the life of a man, doesn't have this perspective, how can she say she knows that men can be motivated by stuff? :) For all you know, maybe men are motivated by non-stuff!
The fact that you typed that out tells me you might have done this once before XD *cackles* (I'm joking). I'm amused that you typed his name out. Thanks for this :D
I just imagined an MC who does all this hard work and then finds out they only succeeded because they were the "CHOSEN ONE" and then they have a huge lapse in self confidence and have to find/build their own worth apart from their magical chosen-ness.
Cliché: The reason this guy is brooding and anti-social is just *one thing* from his past, and having just one talk with him about it is enough to make him normal. It's not like he has a disorder that requires years of therapy just to manage. Nope. It's just that one thing. Psychology is easy!
I know you wrote it 5 months ago, but thank you for this comment. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. Psychological trauma and PTSD are real things that can't be fixed with the flick of a magic wand. (Unless you establish that in your fantasy world's canon/lore, I guess...?)
In which case, holy potatoes! You have magic that can instantly change deeply ingrained parts of someone's psyche! Magic like that would have a massive impact on any society just by existing!
Yeah, that cliche drives me batty. One of my main characters in a novel I'm working on has PTSD and the idea that anyone would just "get over it" even in fiction is pretty freaking crazy.
Pikapower Kirby Same. Last time I checked, the expression was "time heals all wounds," not "one heartfelt conversation conveniently makes your problems disappear."
Also the fact that most of the abuse relationship is gay, there’s a femme boy that wears a dress, has pink hair and for some reason is a cat, then there’s the abusive one in the relationship, who is a ‘bad boy’ with gloves on, shirt hanging open, is a wolf, has messy hair, smokes. So yeah....
My, of course it's funny: she is a woman, don't you see? And still her husband can't put her in her place! Come on, laugh with me at the comedy of this situation because it totally doesn't count if it's the wife/girlfriend doing it, right?
I think harassment in a relationship can be pretty fun if it's coming from both sides. It's only really a problem if one is belittling the other and they don't return the favor =)
Ray Hemminger If it's light teasing sure! But the wife forcing the husband to sleep on the coach or always admit that she's right, that's just not right.
I've noticed that a lot in commercials. For some reason, the husband/father is often portrayed as the idiot, the family joke, or simply the submissive to his wife's supreme intelligence and wit. I get that it can be funny if done right, but when there are about 3 of those exact scenarios in 1 ad-break, you know it's gone overboard. I couldn't imagine wanting to read a book with a situation like that written badly.
Not a wife example... But this is what I hated about Palmtop Tiger in Toradora. She was such an ungrateful dick to everyone (especially MC who I liked). Anime seems to love this trope
I need two books: 1) a book that actually goes against all of these tropes 2) a book that follows each of these tropes to a T and they constantly break the fourth wall to mention said trope
For book two, it could be that someone one their 16th birthday either becomes sentient about all the troupes that have been happing around them, or for some reason everyone after their birthday just adheres to the troupes
"who will inevitably become player three in the love triangle." *Terrible Writing Advice screams in the distance* Clicked and liked this video as soon as it came up. Good as always.
Cliché: This guy is sensitive, fashion-conscious, adverse to sports, and friends with women? He must be gay. He says he isn't? Oh, he's just in the closet. Other characters know about his sexuality better than he does, so it's perfectly okay for them to pressure him into coming out. Because it is physically impossible for a straight man to have the qualities that _attract women to him in the first place._
Kimi FW You... Literally just described me. Wow. Well, accept for the fashion-conscious bit. I don't think geeky T-shirts and old jeans could be considered fashionable. But, hey, no one's called me gay. Yet. XD
And strong manly men are never ever gay. It's not like a gay man would ever be drawn to the life of a sailor, soldier or lumberjack where he'd be guaranteed to se lots of muscular men.
I have a character who's the reverse of this, she's a woman but does a lot of typically male stuff (like American football, gaming (although girl gamers have become more common recently), being 6'2, computer engineering, martial arts (although I have seen quite a few girls do that)), although she has her share of typically female traits, and is straight
mines a mashicast girl whoes extremely eccentric and goes and fucks stuff up,she goes and steals stuff,then forces girls and guys to fuck her. shes a criminal. fun. but a criminal. her past is the plot twist.
imagen hornyness but in girl, imagine slennesh but physical. she gets so bloody and muscles hert it's insane. note:only 60-80% in the idea does she enjoy the pain.the other.not so much. it needs some conflict. I don't have that much story of it.Ive mostly been working on the war idea.
Me: explains the plot of my story to someone. Person: so who does the mc hook up with? Me: what? Person: well, if you want to write something good, your mc has to have a love interest. WTF HAPPENED TO PLATONIC RELATIONSHIPS
Read DREAD NATION and DEATHLESS DIVIDE. Black girl Western + zombies. Very little romance, and the emotional core of the story is the friendship between Jane and Kate (enemies to allies to friends to besties).
Worse trope I ever saw: When the MC has a perfectly good love interest, but is later on attracted to the bad boy, only to increase drama in the plot, even though it's obvious that she and the bad boy are never going to end up together in the end. There are more ways to increase drama besides from making a stupid love triangle
I get it. love triangles are a slippery slope. I try to do it right but I go to videos like this to get help when I notice a problem in my stories. I do have a love triangle situation but it needs work. thinking about it now it might be more of a double love triangle... 5 characters involved 2 bad breakups, & a little unrequited love.
*Raises hand tentatively* I'd like to point out that romanticizing abuse also goes the other way. I can't even count the number of books where the female love interest hits the male love interest.
It doesn't necessarily have to be physical abuse. It seems far more common to have pretty extreme emotional and psychological abuse happen in stories. But it's okay, she's just a "strong, independent woman" for being an abusive b@$&%.
@@MatthewSmith-pv6gd right. I have a story I'm writing that starts with a toxic relationship and turns into a complex double love triangle that turns into the MC breaking the cycle and finding a healthy relationship later.
This trope is mostly in tv and anime, but tv and anime are fiction too so why the heck not? It irritates me SO much when we have a scene where a bad guy is about to kill the good guy, knife up and ready for stabbing. But the good guy's friends just stand there, doing nothing and looking helpless and frightful. DO SOMETHING. Another trope I despise is people doing nothing while someone else is monologuing aimlessly. Doesn't matter if it's the good guy or bad guy that's listening to the monologue. Stop listening. You have the perfect chance! KILL THEM. Mini rant over. :3
There was an old SNL skit back in the day where they had a talk show host interviewing Bond villains. The last question was whether any of them had any advice for any upcoming villains who found themselves up against James Bond. There collective advice was that if you ever capture James Bond, just kill him. Don't explain your plan to bring about the end of the world. Just kill him, immediately. And don't use some fancy contraption designed to maximize the pain. Just use a gun.
Most anime are adapt from manga (japanese comics) or visual novel (text game with pretty pictures). But it pass. Bad guy is about to kill protag in a scene. It works because the pictures doesn't move. The reader could pause their emotions. In the next page, sidekick make a diversion. Its' an adaptation problem.
At least #7 has potential for a joke. Everyone in-universe could tease the name or make up a more pronouncible nickname. Character A: "My name is Alantheateamaria" Character B: "Yeah no Imma calling you mary. I heard a Maria in there that's your name now." Character A: "My name is perfectly suitable!" Character B: "That's not a name that's a vowel movement. Your name is Mary."
I remember this happened in Assassins Creed 3 where the main character’s name is “Ratonhnhaké:ton” (I copy and pasted it) and this man named Achilles says “I’m not going to remember that” and gives him the name “Connor” instead.
I have a character who's like the opposite of this he has a very simple name but everyone still tends to mess it up and make it longer ( kinda stole the idea from AVPM tho )
(roughly, not the exact conversation) A : I am Kiss-shot Acerola-orion Heart-under-blade. Call me Heart-under-blade. (later) B : So, my next question, Kiss-shot... A : Hold on, I told you to call me Heart-under-blade B : It's too long. I prefer Kiss-shot.
I have two variations of this one is a boy named valentine who has just introduced himself at all points as Val so when someone uses his full name no one knows who is being talked about And anouther is a boy named chrysanthemum, nicknamed chrys (Chris), who gets teased by the main character by being called christopher
Cliché: That guy (who isn't Jewish or Muslim) doesn't celebrate Christmas? *GASP!* He must not understand the value of family! We can't possibly let him be alone on this particular day! He must take part in our rituals! Because he's ruining our good time otherwise!
Now I want to write a story that uses all of these tropes just so see how awful it is: Plot: Phaik, a recently turned 16 teen, is a useless waste of space being abused by hot QZWVIπ•sqr37Penis even though the possibly even more useless Goahe has a long time crush on her. But then Phaik is picked to save the world from an evil sharp-shooting, strong independent woman with ridiculously low cut tops who is boring the world into submission with her army of poorly-written hipsters whose motivation to join was fueled by dead girlfriends. Somehow, Phaik gets her act together for the big grand battle finale in which everyone who is not straight or white. And then she and QZWVIπ•sqr37Penis break up. For no reason. Yay.
That first trope of abusive relationship drives me insane too!!! Because I just find it infuriating and scary, instead of sexy and entertaining. I understand that there are people out there who find it entertaining BUT when it becomes soooo difficult for women like me and Jenna to find a fiction book that does NOT involve abuse relationships, you know there's something deeply twisted and horrifying going on here. We just wanna read some healthy, cute and sexy romance stories without any rapey scene and blatant psychological violence/manipulation (which is romanticised - and that is NOT realism! Murder is also real but you don't see Stephen King romanticising it and encouraging people to murder each other). Is that too much to ask? *sigh*
it can only be sexy if it's a kink thing, not a full abusive relationship. the kink aspect gives room for aggression but the straight up abusive Bs is revolting.
I prefer to read less than ideal relationships and even abusive relationships.. but Jesus Christ I cannot STAND romanticizing it. I think it’d be fine of it was shown as it really was but acting like it’s a good relationship is gross and plain bad for readers
I agree. Abusive/ unhealthy relationships are more interesting but when you romanticize them not only are you going against what I want you're also being very ignorant
@@goldenlotus3598 And that reminds of that one author who had published her book around year 2011 which it became popular (it was a fanfiction from a popular series) then later on had an adaptation. In an interview, she said that her novel was "kinky" or something like that, but really it was dub-con and abuse.
"If someone was born yesterday it doesn't matter if they have boobs. She is still a newborn, and you're still disgusting" I think she just destroyed The fifth element at the end there :O
Corey Fischer I wouldn't romanticize it but I also don't despise it because they are messed up people doing messed up things. No one is supposed to take that as an ideal of romance.
Jenna, even if you gauge your eyes out you can still enjoy books by using AUDIBLE! AUDIBLE has thousands of audio- wait... what do you mean Audible isn’t the sponsor?
The chosen one trope is overused, but it can definitely be done well with great writing. Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, LOTR (sort of), Buffy, Avatar, Star Wars are great examples. But yeah, the rest of those tropes can go straight to hell.
A good writer can turn anything into gold, however mediocre or just novice writers tend to lean on cliches without doing anything interesting with them. Unfortunately, I find that fantasy fiction tends to lean on that trope way too much.
I was expecting to come in here and be like 'there aren't really bad tropes so much as overused ones'. And then you kicked it off with romanticising abuse and talked about power imbalance and yeah okay you very much had a point.
There's a girl in my school named "Kaylen" but her name is spelled "Caoilfhinn". So I guess the complicated names are acceptable if they're Irish lol jk (but seriously that was how you spell her name).
You can pick out an Irish name pretty quickly. If you have no idea how to pronounce it, it's probably Irish. I've got a classmate named Siobhan (pronounced shove-on) and I've run into a Saoirse (pronounced seer-sha) once.
thepianothatwaited Or Polish, or Welsh. Rule of thumb: Has a Z (or 20), J (especially in the middle), K (especially "-ek" or "-ski") or W pronounced as V: Polish Has a double L/D/F at the start or a lack of vowels: Welsh Has too many vowels and a few stray Hs: Irish
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names. There are a few cultures that do this, not just the Irish ... and I have no idea why.
#7 Yeah, I totally hate that trope! **proceeds to reluctantly rename my main character from UltraThorius Ramrod Hyperthrust and his wife Lunaseance Mystical HyperThrust to something easier to pronounce**
How about the trope of sexual violence toward women being the go-to when trying to add angst or tragedy to their character? Like, if a woman has a tragic backstory, it's either going to involve rape or a dead child or both. And I have lost count of how many times a male love interest was boosted up by a scene of him saving the female protag from getting raped. Rape and near-rape are traumatic events that cause lasting mental scars, not a tool to increase the shock value of a scene!
And I hate the idea that a strong female character has to have a rape backstory or something similar explaining how she became "strong". It perpetuates the idea that survivors are damaged goods that can't go on to live a normal life and that a woman needs to have some sort of trauma explaining how she became different. If male characters are allowed to become badass adventurers without a traumatic backstory, why can't female characters?
"If male characters are allowed to become badass adventurers without a traumatic backstory," I think male characters usually need a backstory as well, or else they don't sound plausible. Extraordinary men or women I tend to think should have a backstory, and it seems like they generally do as backstory is a pretty common thing.
Derek G I said "without a traumatic backstory", not no backstory whatsoever. You can give a female character a backstory that doesn't involve sexual trauma. Did you even read my comment?
Gertrud Bondesson I think you're slightly misinterpreting the use of Sexual Trauma. It plays a huge role in why she would become a soldier or whatever. I'm using a fantasy back drop in this idea as it tends to be a trope. She will be mentally broken and scared. As her story progresses she would constantly be put in small situations challenging her discomfort and current mental state until she feels that need of power so it will never happen again as the first time she was powerless and could do nothing to stop it. The motivation runs a lot deeper here than not having a traumatic past, but still managing to be a bad ass. Or flip it on its head. She got preggos and ultimatly decided she would raise the kid with all of her heart or something. To only have the kid find out he was a rape child or something.
I inverted the Chosen One trope: One day, my protagonist wakes up and every person in the world has gained magical powers - except for him. Well yeah... it sucks. xD
Me too! Some stuff that breaks my immersion is: - Long flowing hair that would be bound to get caught in something (plus it wouldn't stay pretty in a fantasy/post apocalyptic world without shampoo and showers) - A character going on an outdoor adventure in high heels and not ditching them at the first opportunity - When it looks like the villain has the hero beaten, only for the villain to say "You know your parent/partner/girlfriend who died in an accident? It was no accident, I killed them all along". Out of all the ways to taunt a hero, why did the villain have to say something guaranteed to rekindle the hero's hatred for them and relight their heroic fighting spirit? - A band of Orcs/bandits transporting their prisoners in a cage drawn by oxes that moves so slow you start wondering why they don't just chain the prisoners together and make them march towards the destination. Bonus points if instead of oxes, a pair of the orcs/bandits are pulling the cart themselves.
How is flowing hair unrealistic though? Fairy potions for optimal softness sound believable to me plus fantasy can take place in more than just the past.
Golden lotus As someone with long hair in real life, I'd never do any sort of physical activity without braiding it or tying it back first, because other wise it WILL get caught in something and it can be incredibly painful. And while the fantasy genre does allow for the bending of some rules regarding magic and the level of technology, what we usually see is a world with medieval-style buildings with no signs of electricity or running water, and magic is limited and unusual. Unless the writer specifies that the protagonist actually uses magic shampoo, I'm not buying it.
The bad boy and the dish rag! THANK YOU, it is one thing I genuinely can’t stand because it’s so forced. In every story. No hot guy is going to choose a girl with the personality of wet cardboard unless she is FLINGING herself at him. Never, lol
The "OMAGAD LOOK AT ME IM NOT LIKE THE OTHER GIRLS FOR X REASONS" trope makes me wanna kill myself by choking on my own puke. Awesome video as usual, tho. I really wish TSC and Eve could be translated in French, I'm dying to read them. D:
I hate the "I'm not like other girls" trope, especially since the girl saying this line usually is exactly like all the other "strong" female characters in bad fiction.
Adult Entertainment Means Using as Much Sex, Profanity, and Gore as Possible Ah, the bitter irony of adult entertainment. If your story uses things considered inappropriate for children, it gets an adults-only rating. Problem is, using all those things as much as possible guarantees alienating your adult viewers and attracting child viewers. Adults like subtlety and intelligence and realism, while children, or at least those who want to be grown up, like over-the-top vulgarity, because they think that's what being an adult is about. That is why Legend of Zelda games and Steven Universe draw in more adults while Call of Duty and Family Guy draw in more children. This is why BoJack Horseman has lots of teen viewers who don't understand why a seventeen-year-old sleeping with her mother's old friend whom she barely knows is a bad thing.
" Call of Duty and Family Guy draw in more children" From my experience, this is only really true for the internet. I don't know that many adults in the real world that like stuff aimed at kids, but I DO meet adults everyday who are obsessed with vulgar shit like family guy. Especially middle-aged men.
Uh... I clearly knew why Bojack sleeping with his old friend's daughter is a bad thing. In fact I was down right shocked that he took it that far! If there really are people around my age that sees no wrong then society is really been twisted by social media and we're all fucked.
It's more of a TV and movie trope, but I can't stand the heated argument that turns into sex. For one it says that anger is the same thing as attraction, and that dysfunction is just a sign of repressed desires. Also I've seen it so much that whenever two characters of the opposite gender start arguing and it cuts to a mid shot of them facing each other, I already know how the scene is going to end.
I try to avoid all of these, the only one I kinda broke was the name one, the main character is named Rein (pronounced rain), but I feel this is a pretty reasonable one tbh, and it's the only example I can think of. Well, except for Naeo, but we don't talk about Naeo...
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names. Rein pronounced as Rain, that's actually pretty good, unless if they're royalty ... in which case, too much on the nose.
I read a book where the language and names that are commons words have h's in them. I mean it was constant so it doesn't really bother me. Here are the names "phury, rhage, revhenge, tohrment, qhuinn, hhurt, hharm." And more I can't think of. If it weren't such a good book then I'd probably get annoyed lol.
We're reading romance novels for our English class and every damn novel on the required reading list features.... you guessed it... AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP! >:( There is literally a scene where the guy grabs this girl's wrist to stop her from leaving during an argument and he's hurting her, from her perspective she even thinks he's going to hit her, yet all he can think of is how angry he is despite the fact he wants to kiss her? That's what I call fucked up!
Yep! that is not romantic, that is possession! A charming trait that usually manifests in the abusive partner, the more that said partner sees him/her as their possession and not an independent human being with their own thoughts and feelings! Ooh, now that's sexy.
That friendzone rant is something so many boys need to hear. Dude, if you don't tell me you like me, don't blame me for putting you in the "friendzone"
She might do a video talking about her favorite books but I don't think she'll do one bashing any book. She said before she doesn't want to talk badly about books she hated because she doesn't want to bash anyone's hard work.
Love the names one, I’ve told friends writing stories that Names can be really simple. Take my first name Christopher, I’m called Chris because outside of formal occasions it’s a lot easier. To make a Fantasy name swap out vowels and replace consonants with similar sounds. Example: Chris - Chres - Kres; Daniel - Denyl, Thenyl. Short,sweet, done! If you want those long names, introduce the Character and give a shortened version, it will also help you write the character.
I think the only time I really liked the Chosen One trope is with Anakin Skywalker's downfall into the dark side due to one of the reasons of him being the Chosen One. I think it that was one of the best ways it's been done.
Serena Odonata yeah I do know that, that's why it's probably my favorite because yeah he did do what was promised he did end up fulfilling the prophecy of him being the Chosen One. Most people may think he failed in doing so and that even Luke Skywalker is the Chosen One now. But that's because it's done simply to further their cause and their beliefs.
If you’re doing the whole “chosen one” thing maybe make them do the whole “I wish I wasn’t the chosen one” thing when they realise how crappy being the chosen one is...thing.
When will writers realize that "strong female character" means "complex and well-written"? Like, you know, the various amazing ladies in Black Panther.
Oh... I've used the "Chosen One" trope: "You are the only one to survive touching this artefact. You, my friend, are the Chosen One." "... Oh crap." Turned out of course that it was all a load of bullshit, and the Protagonist was being taken for a ride. It's always more fun to do the choosing than to be chosen.
It's fun to take those tropes and subvert the stuffing out of them. Like at the start of the book, the Wife dies, but then she comes back as a killer zombie. O hai Shadow!
“no man drowning in pussy is going to fall for the human equivalent of a dishrag” -Jenna Moreci, best quote ever, seriously, it’s up there with some of the stuff Shakespeare said.
YES!!!!! I hate the whole abusive relationship thing. It is so damaging. Plus the friend zone BS. It’s not a real place. And no one owes anyone a relationship. The born sexy yesterday troupe is so creepy.
Contrivances Specifically, when a situation is so contrived that a character's explanation of it is too ridiculous for anyone with half a brain to believe. "See, she and I were running, and she grabbed my hand, and we tripped, and that's why she was sitting on my face. Oh, and she forgot to wear underwear today. It's all a complete accident!" We the audience only believe it because we saw it happen. A non-fanservice variation is when the plot of a story is so ridiculous that the protagonist thinks it's a joke. I don't mind when a story has a ridiculous premise, but when the protagonist outright says it's ridiculous, it makes me think the writer is aware and is too lazy to fix it or is trying to impress me with his/her self-awareness. Would you enjoy Batman as much as you do if he said he was fully aware at how insane his goal is or how childish his gimmick is? I wouldn't.
Parody trope #3 “You’re the chosen one!” “Nice, let’s do this I have band at 8. If I’m late I’m making you suffer because YOU will be the ‘chosen one’ for my wrath.” Fast forward “Why are you so good at this?” Smug look. “ I’m the chosen one. You literally told me this an hour ago. I imagine that’s why I’m good at this. Its like...” gasp, “ I’m the chosen one!”
I laughed this whole video. It’s so relatable. I’m finding a lot of books with 5 star ratings on Amazon where women are like “Hey, I love being abused by this hunky rich douchebag.” Lol.
One of my own least favorite tropes in fiction is when a character learns a valuable lesson that makes him readjust his ways... and then he/she forgets it by the next book. Down with Aesop Amnesia!
I _hate_ how many female protagonists have to deal with sexual trauma. I think it's to make them appear stronger, but why don't I see it for men too? Also, rape is a very serious thing, and it should never even be _touched_ by anyone who can't do it right. This is why I stopped watching Kill Bill. Of all the deaths that happened in that movie, the least satisfying one happened to the guy who pimped out the Bride's comatose body to... at least *dozens* of men.
"but why don't I see it for men too?" Because then more people would start to believe that men getting raped is a thing, and it would hurt women's ownership of this issue for feminist arguments. And because it would force women to be the bad one more often (the one causing the sexual trauma), when we generally find it more natural and comfortable for the man to be the bad one in a story.
That is ridiculous, I have never spoken to a true feminist who didn't acknowledge men can be victims too. It isn't a zero sum game, and there are movies out there that depict it happening to men, such as American history X, the Shawshank redemption and Lawrence of Arabia, it just isn't used as an ubiquitous backstory for all male characters meant to be badass. And there are plenty of female villains in fiction, and it's not uncommon to see femme fatale types using their sexuality as a weapon in movies and video games.
+Gertrud Bondesson What Derek has said actually holds weight. The answer to your unspoken question lies within your first sentence: "true Feminist". A *true* Feminist is willingly open to acknowledge that male victims of sexual assault is a thing. However, there are, unfortunately, a very vocal minority that pose as Feminists (Feminazis), that have been giving true Feminists a bad name for years, and have had quite the impact on media as of late. I've seen many claims by these ill-reputable people that make direct statements to the tune of: 'men cannot be raped'; and 'all men are rapists until taught otherwise not to be'. To this loud and obnoxious minority, being unable to victimise themselves exclusively would be a social sin, and we'd probably hear something along the lines of "male 'victims' raped me of my free speech".
Kecu Kritiques While there are women who think that way, most of these type of comments tend to be trolls posing as feminists. I have never seen any feminist, radical or otherwise, use a phrase like "male 'victims' raped me of my free speech", I have only read it among antifeminists trying to imitate feminists without understanding the terminology. And while many women can come off as hostile towards complaints about male victims, I think that some of the sentiment also comes from men who hijack discussions about violence against women by going "what about the men?". Sexual violence against men is a problem, but it's not going to be solved if the *only* time it's brought up is whenever women try to discuss the problems they face.
I LOVE MESSING WITH THE CHOSEN ONE TROUPE! like, in one of my stories the "chosen one" is terrible, and lazy. so their best friend does all the work but the choosen gets the credit
lol the mac and cheese trick to come up with names needs to be discussed. I have seen so many people saying they came out with names with food in their mouth and saying a regular name. So much that I wonder how many published writers have done that
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names. Mac is actually a pretty good name ... would use it for a plain fighter character or a brawny rogue.
A fantasy novel with a chosen one that doesn't want the job, so the choosing entity is just like "oh... okay" and just leaves to choose another person. The rest of the novel is a slice of life story about a background character dealing with the end of the world.
Damn, these tropes annoy the hell out of me as well, especially The Chosen One. I think the Harry Potter series is the only time I can think of at the top of my head where The Chosen One Cliché actually works. Why is it so hard for the protagonist to be the hero who rises up and fight not because they're The Chosen One, but because they just got sick of whatever the villain was doing, and decided to do something about it? That's what I'm doing for my stories. Also, do you think you could do a vlog on how to execute heart wrenching character deaths, especially major ones? I know in your early days you have done a vlog on killing characters, but most of it was just "Should I" and "How writers react to writing deaths" Do you think you could do a vlog where you explain how you would execute a major character death that just tears the reader's heart apart?
There have been times Chosen One plots have worked. They weren't so overt as Harry Potter, but a good writer can make anything work. There is just much more examples of stories were it came off as trite and cliche. I'd also like to see her take on writing such a scene. My way would be to strip away flowery prose and overly dramatic action. Be blunt and horrific in your realism. Since you want it to really resonate with the reader, you should make it seem like something that would happen to them. Tragic scenes in movies, IMO are more impactful when it doesn't feature artifice of music and dramatics. The character mourning shouldn't scream 'NOOO!!!' but just sit and weeps with running nose, red face, and a little hyperventilating and nausea. If you want to show the POV of the dying character, I'd say you get a little morose and describe the pain and fear they are experiencing.
I know. I've watched it multiple times, and she has provided with useful tips, however that video was mostly talking about sad scenes in general. I was more talking about character deaths specifically.
Corey's Reviews: Just a warning, this ended up being REALLY long and a tad tangential so... sorry I guess? Feel free to use anything I suggest, although I warn you many of the quotes I used as examples I actually took from other things that made me cry. So, yeah. Honestly, Character Death is just another type of sad scene. The only things you need to make sure of is that the reader cares about the dying character (if not then the readers just gonna think 'oh... sucks for them I guess'), and that it doesn't feel like the author is killing the character (by this I mean make sure the death is necessary, in character, realistic, etc. Otherwise you risk the reader being less sad and more pissed off at you.) Find some death scenes you like and see what they have in common. Most of this Jenna has said in some form. If you want my advice, it's always who the character is (their history, friends etc) and what all of the characters say that really gets to me. Another character saying "You're gonna be okay." to a character who is clearly not going to be okay. A character who immediately sees that they aren't going to be okay and responds with "No I'm not." Final requests from the dying character ("Can you sing to me?" For example). A character realizing they're going to die and understanding what that means. Characters crying and trying not to cry. Characters fighting off death to say one last thing. ("I need to tell you... before it's too late.") A dying character saying "I'm scared." or "I don't want to die." A dying character apologizing or thanking another character ("I'm sorry... I guess I broke my promise." or "Thank you... for loving me." for example.) A dying character comforting a distressed friend or significant other ("It's okay. I'm okay with this." for example) A character being really at peace with their death while another character clearly isn't ready for their friend to die ("My time has come." "No!") A character asking another character to promise them something as they die. ("Just... promise me something, okay?") A character asking another character to live their life happily without them ("Live without me... just be happy.") A character that is too late to say something to their dying loved one ("I never got to... I never got to tell you I love you." for an extremely cliché example. "No! Come back please! I'm sorry, I don't hate you! I didn't mean it I'm sorry!" for a less cliché example) A character acting calm for their friend as their friend dies, but losing it as soon as they're actually dead. Callbacks can work really well if they're executed right ("I guess you were right. My stupidity did get me killed." or "Goodbye." "I thought you said you hated goodbyes.") Final wishes and regrets ("I wish... we could've grown old together.") Self sacrifice works well too, as long as it isn't OOC. Especially if it's premeditated self-sacrifice and friends have to watch as that character walks to their death. The dying character becoming delirious and making simple observations as they die ("I feel so cold.") The narrating character slowly coming to realize their friend is dying ("His eyes glossed over with pain as blood, far too much blood, seeped out of his wounds. His eyes were glossed over in pain as he held the hole in his stomach with red hands. It was so much blood. So so much blood. Even if he got treatment I knew there was no way... no way he would...") The aftermath and grieving. A funeral can be sadder than the death itself. It's usually best if you make the death long so that the characters can speak, but don't let it drag too much. Making the death a surprise isn't necessarily bad. As long as it still has a point and doesn't feel like the author is killing the character. In fact, this can make the sadness even stronger. It's also good to use to remind the reader that the characters live in a dangerous world. However, a death can be even more powerful if you always knew it was going to happen from the very beginning. A fantastic example of this is Silver Spoon. Symbolism can work really well too. Making the circumstances sad works well too. For example, the main character unknowingly kills their best friend or is forced to kill their best friend. Last Stands can be really heartbreaking too, especially with strong characters. They fight until their very last breath, never losing that spark of determination, even when they know they can't win. On the other hand, having a character that goes out with a whimper can be really heartbreaking too. For example, a character who barely overcomes their enemy with mortal wounds only to slowly bleed out. A character who is affected by a slow-acting poison and fights until they can't move. A character dying from an incurable disease. One character trying so goddamn hard to save another only to fail in the end. A character whose death is shrouded in mystery. Someone finds their body in the aftermath of a huge fight and nobody knows what happened. A character who dies alone. Characters that die together. Everyone dies. (I find this doesn't have as big of an impact when it feels like it is done for no reason, or each death melds into the others. Each death must feel separate, but they have to all occur within a short period of time. This can be really tricky to pull off. This can be done especially well if it is known they'll all die beforehand. For example, Halo: Reach is a prequel to Halo, in which Master Chief is the last Spartan. As such, in Halo: Reach you start the campaign knowing that all the Spartans on your team are going to die, but it's well executed so it's still sad.) A character who redeems themselves with their death. A sudden, instant death. So sudden, the thought they were going to die never even crossed the character's mind. They might've even been killed mid-sentence. But be careful this doesn't feel like it's coming out of left field. Honestly, the most key component tho is making sure that the death makes sense, is in character, isn't an absurd coincidence, had a purpose etc. Because if not, then instead of the reader bawling their eyes out, they're going to throw the book across the room in a fit of rage. If it feels like you're filling a quota of "well, this many characters need to die" or that you're picking who dies out of a hat, people are not going to be happy, and they're not gonna be sad either. If you make your characters likeable than the death will probably be inherently sad. Also make sure the other characters (at least the ones you're supposed to like) find the death sad and mourn the character. Otherwise the reader will get pissed. Basically all I did was give you a bunch of sad tropes lmao oops
You make a very good point, and that makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. I haven't finished reading the books for the first time (currently up to Prisoner of Azkaban) but from what I've read from the books, and seen from the movies (I've seen all 8 movies) It does seem like he takes it upon himself to do the right thing not because he's The Chosen One, but because it's the right thing to do. It seems like he doesn't really consider himself as The Chosen One until the last three movies.
That spelling of the name Gary though 😂 That reminded me hard about a Patrick Rothfuss video where he complains about idiotic names in fantasy, including the somehow mandatory apostrophe in at least one of the names. He wanted his names to sound real and it worked, he chose names eerily close to some used in Asia (forgot the country), but also in the Netherlands (more specifically, some were pretty close to Frisian names. Such a small area that it astounded. I'd had classmates named almost exactly the same, with one letter different in the spelling). I love that. I want to be able to hear that stuff, otherwise the writing confuses me. Normal names make people love you (so don't call your character Pug...)
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names. Gary ... how about Gaary ... extend the pronunciation of the vowel sound ever so slightly.
We like listening to your complaints because we often times share them. Since you’re skilled and charismatic super wonderful it validates our own feelings. Plus if any writers in the audience are doing these tropes then we can realize it and stop. Your complaints are also incredibly hilarious. You make the terrible things we see everywhere funny and easy to spot.
I'm writing a story that either avoids tropes or runs parallel to a few. I just don't like a lot of them and think tropes don't encapsulate reality. Sometimes actions are not tied to each other, sometimes it takes agency to make these things connect. One day when I finish I hope everyone will read it and it inspires others to write so I can read even more stories that I will enjoy. Thank you for coming to my TedTalk. Lol
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names. Gary ... how about Gaary ... extend the pronunciation of the vowel sound ever so slightly.
I once made a character a few years ago who was basically the reverse of one of these tropes. In a setting where most characters had relatively normal names, like Becca or Fred, this guy was named Steve. Like, it was spelled Steve, but the pronunciation was not even close to it, and the joke was that, since this is a written medium, the readers would never actually know how it was supposed to be pronounced. His parents just thought it was hilarious, and he never changed his name because he agreed with them.
I just came across your videos and feel like a reason for them so far is half you walked through the YA section at Barnes and Noble and half you tried to read George RR Martin. I am loving these.
Sees this video, thinks back too all the novels I read, including the ones I am trying to forget. These tropes were so spot on. Thanks to you and a few others, I have enough knowledge about tropes to analyze every teen fiction novel. It's probably the next superpower.
"Men can be motivated by lots of stuff." For example: their puppy got murdered
XD LOL
One time my dad told me, "I'm tired of these westerns killing off a man's whole family and burning down his ranch to create a revenge story. Back in my day, you just shot his horse." So yes, this is definitely enough to motivate a guy xD
John Wick LOLOL
NOOO!! Not the PUPPY!!! D: :P
But since a woman hasn't lived the life of a man, doesn't have this perspective, how can she say she knows that men can be motivated by stuff? :) For all you know, maybe men are motivated by non-stuff!
"Healthy relationships are sexier because both parties are consenting and no-one's being assaulted. Which is nice!"
That was THE BEST LINE. EVER. 💪
And boring? And remember, in many assaults, it's the woman hitting their man.
Retief Gregorovich
Why is healthy boring?
@@retiefgregorovich810
Seriously why?
@@juliannechen9094 I want to know too.
deadass 😭 it's so uncomfortable when one of them is clearly suffering because of the other's intentions when love makes people so vulnerable
HIS NAME IS PRONOUNCED GARY BUT ITS SPELT: QZWVIπ√ 37Penis
Amelia EverythingBabyNames oh my god
You actually bothered to spell that out! XD
FJFJDJDJD EVERY TEEN WRITER
VI is what I wrote...?
The fact that you typed that out tells me you might have done this once before XD *cackles* (I'm joking). I'm amused that you typed his name out. Thanks for this :D
I just imagined an MC who does all this hard work and then finds out they only succeeded because they were the "CHOSEN ONE" and then they have a huge lapse in self confidence and have to find/build their own worth apart from their magical chosen-ness.
That's a good idea...
ME TOO! Lets be famous.
Boring
I kinda like that
I want to read this story
Cliché: The reason this guy is brooding and anti-social is just *one thing* from his past, and having just one talk with him about it is enough to make him normal. It's not like he has a disorder that requires years of therapy just to manage. Nope. It's just that one thing. Psychology is easy!
I know you wrote it 5 months ago, but thank you for this comment. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. Psychological trauma and PTSD are real things that can't be fixed with the flick of a magic wand. (Unless you establish that in your fantasy world's canon/lore, I guess...?)
In which case, holy potatoes! You have magic that can instantly change deeply ingrained parts of someone's psyche!
Magic like that would have a massive impact on any society just by existing!
Yeah, that cliche drives me batty. One of my main characters in a novel I'm working on has PTSD and the idea that anyone would just "get over it" even in fiction is pretty freaking crazy.
Pikapower Kirby Same. Last time I checked, the expression was "time heals all wounds," not "one heartfelt conversation conveniently makes your problems disappear."
Exactly!
“ romantic abuse relationship trope”
*intensely stares at 89 percent of the Gacha community*
SSSSHHHHH we dont speak about that-
Oop-
Also the fact that most of the abuse relationship is gay, there’s a femme boy that wears a dress, has pink hair and for some reason is a cat, then there’s the abusive one in the relationship, who is a ‘bad boy’ with gloves on, shirt hanging open, is a wolf, has messy hair, smokes. So yeah....
Yea
Ahhh! Why? I hate those unhealthy unrealistic homophobic tropes!
Another trope that I hate: having the wife being emotionally abusive to their husband for comedy reasons. Because domestic harassment is funny (not).
My, of course it's funny: she is a woman, don't you see? And still her husband can't put her in her place! Come on, laugh with me at the comedy of this situation because it totally doesn't count if it's the wife/girlfriend doing it, right?
I think harassment in a relationship can be pretty fun if it's coming from both sides. It's only really a problem if one is belittling the other and they don't return the favor =)
Ray Hemminger If it's light teasing sure! But the wife forcing the husband to sleep on the coach or always admit that she's right, that's just not right.
I've noticed that a lot in commercials. For some reason, the husband/father is often portrayed as the idiot, the family joke, or simply the submissive to his wife's supreme intelligence and wit.
I get that it can be funny if done right, but when there are about 3 of those exact scenarios in 1 ad-break, you know it's gone overboard.
I couldn't imagine wanting to read a book with a situation like that written badly.
Not a wife example... But this is what I hated about Palmtop Tiger in Toradora. She was such an ungrateful dick to everyone (especially MC who I liked). Anime seems to love this trope
I need two books:
1) a book that actually goes against all of these tropes
2) a book that follows each of these tropes to a T and they constantly break the fourth wall to mention said trope
For book two, it could be that someone one their 16th birthday either becomes sentient about all the troupes that have been happing around them, or for some reason everyone after their birthday just adheres to the troupes
let me know when you write them, I'd like to read them
Emma Brook check out The Rest of us Just Live Here!
you just spealed out two ideas for my two books 😉
though the story has obvieasly more to it
"...constantly break the fourth wall..."
I believe the term you'd be looking for is "lampshading". That sounds more accurate to the topic at hand!
“Said no high school kid ever” omg so true.
Right? I would have LOVED to be told I'm some heroic chosen one back in high school lol
I know! reading Harry Potter at the time, I wanted to be a wizard. Or just fly.
Me a primary school kid that agrees with these points: *nervous sweating*
@@ramyeonhan8276 actually I'm scared to be the chosen one because I'm afraid of weight on my shoulders
@@ramyeonhan8276I literally wanted to be a superhero when I was little and would even pretend to be a superhero a lot
"Are [women] even people? Science says no!" Confirmed. I am an alien.
sambeawesome I thought I was the only one!
So no more sexist remarks like “back to kitchen” but instead “back to Area 51”?
sambeawesome me too!
Or a demigod. 🙌🏾✊🏾
That's right we're aliens and this is our mother ship
Beep Beep Boop
"who will inevitably become player three in the love triangle."
*Terrible Writing Advice screams in the distance*
Clicked and liked this video as soon as it came up. Good as always.
I did eventually,internet plus feeling like it.
vaping weed makes me extra horny,ok normal but uped a little bit.
I looked up girls at night near easter,I just couldn't hold it in,I tried.
420th like of this comment. Thank you.
Cannonfodder43 She said that as I read this comment. I'm shook
Cannonfodder43 why hello fellow TWA fan!
"Its their birthday, and suddenly things are happening that they just can't explain."
--AKA puberty--
Cliché: This guy is sensitive, fashion-conscious, adverse to sports, and friends with women? He must be gay. He says he isn't? Oh, he's just in the closet. Other characters know about his sexuality better than he does, so it's perfectly okay for them to pressure him into coming out. Because it is physically impossible for a straight man to have the qualities that _attract women to him in the first place._
Kimi FW
You... Literally just described me.
Wow.
Well, accept for the fashion-conscious bit. I don't think geeky T-shirts and old jeans could be considered fashionable. But, hey, no one's called me gay. Yet. XD
The HackingBurger ha! Gaaaaaayyyyy! ( Sorry, it had to be done)
nachoijp
Welp, I deserve it. :p :D
And strong manly men are never ever gay. It's not like a gay man would ever be drawn to the life of a sailor, soldier or lumberjack where he'd be guaranteed to se lots of muscular men.
I have a character who's the reverse of this, she's a woman but does a lot of typically male stuff (like American football, gaming (although girl gamers have become more common recently), being 6'2, computer engineering, martial arts (although I have seen quite a few girls do that)), although she has her share of typically female traits, and is straight
But my female character is a cutout from the planet Cardboard....
Da Dragon Durp I would read that.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
mines a mashicast girl whoes extremely eccentric and goes and fucks stuff up,she goes and steals stuff,then forces girls and guys to fuck her.
shes a criminal.
fun.
but a criminal.
her past is the plot twist.
imagen hornyness but in girl,
imagine slennesh but physical.
she gets so bloody and muscles hert it's insane.
note:only 60-80% in the idea does she enjoy the pain.the other.not so much.
it needs some conflict.
I don't have that much story of it.Ive mostly been working on the war idea.
"Number seven!" - holds up eight fingers -
Hey, you're a writer, not a mathematician!
She didn't hold out a thumb though.
6:26
You'd think someone with a calculator in their brain would be better at basic addition ^^
I can be a mathmatition,math comes natural to me.
and ocd empire:knowing what guns to place where essentially:stratigy.
(trademarked)
There is no such thing as mathematics in literature. It just doesn't exist.
Me: explains the plot of my story to someone.
Person: so who does the mc hook up with?
Me: what?
Person: well, if you want to write something good, your mc has to have a love interest.
WTF HAPPENED TO PLATONIC RELATIONSHIPS
Cole PLATONIC IS GOOD. PLEASE KEEP YOUR MC PLATONIC, I WILL READ IT PURELY FOR THAT
IKR. It makes more sense for me though, since my character is 11 XD
Read DREAD NATION and DEATHLESS DIVIDE. Black girl Western + zombies. Very little romance, and the emotional core of the story is the friendship between Jane and Kate (enemies to allies to friends to besties).
Omg these kinds of people actually exist?
the story I’m writing, the two protagonists have no love interests.
I swear I have at least 6 new insults because of this video. My favorite is dishrag.
"damnit steven stop being such a dishrag and help us!"
jk steven is precious child
MagicalPouchOfMagic is
Happy to see you here!
MagicalPouchOfMagic I like your username is very "magical"( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉)
Worse trope I ever saw: When the MC has a perfectly good love interest, but is later on attracted to the bad boy, only to increase drama in the plot, even though it's obvious that she and the bad boy are never going to end up together in the end.
There are more ways to increase drama besides from making a stupid love triangle
I get it. love triangles are a slippery slope. I try to do it right but I go to videos like this to get help when I notice a problem in my stories. I do have a love triangle situation but it needs work. thinking about it now it might be more of a double love triangle... 5 characters involved 2 bad breakups, & a little unrequited love.
Romanticising abuse is my most hated trope as well.
it's the WORST
Tru
cough *twilight* cough :D
ProudPancake!
Same. It's horrendous.
And 50 shades.
*Raises hand tentatively*
I'd like to point out that romanticizing abuse also goes the other way. I can't even count the number of books where the female love interest hits the male love interest.
It doesn't necessarily have to be physical abuse. It seems far more common to have pretty extreme emotional and psychological abuse happen in stories. But it's okay, she's just a "strong, independent woman" for being an abusive b@$&%.
Matthew Smith I never liked that trope. Always bothered me.
Tsunderes be shivering
@@MatthewSmith-pv6gd right. I have a story I'm writing that starts with a toxic relationship and turns into a complex double love triangle that turns into the MC breaking the cycle and finding a healthy relationship later.
This trope is mostly in tv and anime, but tv and anime are fiction too so why the heck not? It irritates me SO much when we have a scene where a bad guy is about to kill the good guy, knife up and ready for stabbing. But the good guy's friends just stand there, doing nothing and looking helpless and frightful. DO SOMETHING.
Another trope I despise is people doing nothing while someone else is monologuing aimlessly. Doesn't matter if it's the good guy or bad guy that's listening to the monologue. Stop listening. You have the perfect chance! KILL THEM.
Mini rant over. :3
EternalMirage omg yes. That wrecks my head
There was an old SNL skit back in the day where they had a talk show host interviewing Bond villains. The last question was whether any of them had any advice for any upcoming villains who found themselves up against James Bond. There collective advice was that if you ever capture James Bond, just kill him. Don't explain your plan to bring about the end of the world. Just kill him, immediately. And don't use some fancy contraption designed to maximize the pain. Just use a gun.
Most anime are adapt from manga (japanese comics) or visual novel (text game with pretty pictures). But it pass. Bad guy is about to kill protag in a scene. It works because the pictures doesn't move. The reader could pause their emotions. In the next page, sidekick make a diversion. Its' an adaptation problem.
Then when the bad guy does something, what does he do? He throws the hero a few feet in front of him!
ua-cam.com/video/LXEAkeh7OTE/v-deo.html
'If the bad guys didn't waste time with monologues'
At least #7 has potential for a joke. Everyone in-universe could tease the name or make up a more pronouncible nickname.
Character A: "My name is Alantheateamaria"
Character B: "Yeah no Imma calling you mary. I heard a Maria in there that's your name now."
Character A: "My name is perfectly suitable!"
Character B: "That's not a name that's a vowel movement. Your name is Mary."
I remember this happened in Assassins Creed 3 where the main character’s name is “Ratonhnhaké:ton” (I copy and pasted it) and this man named Achilles says “I’m not going to remember that” and gives him the name “Connor” instead.
I have a character who's like the opposite of this
he has a very simple name but everyone still tends to mess it up and make it longer ( kinda stole the idea from AVPM tho )
(roughly, not the exact conversation)
A : I am Kiss-shot Acerola-orion Heart-under-blade. Call me Heart-under-blade.
(later)
B : So, my next question, Kiss-shot...
A : Hold on, I told you to call me Heart-under-blade
B : It's too long. I prefer Kiss-shot.
I have two variations of this one is a boy named valentine who has just introduced himself at all points as Val so when someone uses his full name no one knows who is being talked about
And anouther is a boy named chrysanthemum, nicknamed chrys (Chris), who gets teased by the main character by being called christopher
Doctor Who has Romanadvoratrelundar (sp?), "Romana" for short, though she preferred "Fred" when asked. She's a Time Lord/Lady.
Cliché: That guy (who isn't Jewish or Muslim) doesn't celebrate Christmas? *GASP!* He must not understand the value of family! We can't possibly let him be alone on this particular day! He must take part in our rituals! Because he's ruining our good time otherwise!
Yes, for fck's sake, finally someone said it! Thank you!
Every Christmas I remember why I hate this trope with a passion
It suddenly reminded me of Ebenezer Scrooge's "Bah Humbug!" lol subverted take on the christmas carol would be entertaining
That's not even a cliche this is real life.
Oof
Now I want to write a story that uses all of these tropes just so see how awful it is:
Plot: Phaik, a recently turned 16 teen, is a useless waste of space being abused by hot QZWVIπ•sqr37Penis even though the possibly even more useless Goahe has a long time crush on her. But then Phaik is picked to save the world from an evil sharp-shooting, strong independent woman with ridiculously low cut tops who is boring the world into submission with her army of poorly-written hipsters whose motivation to join was fueled by dead girlfriends. Somehow, Phaik gets her act together for the big grand battle finale in which everyone who is not straight or white. And then she and QZWVIπ•sqr37Penis break up. For no reason. Yay.
That first trope of abusive relationship drives me insane too!!! Because I just find it infuriating and scary, instead of sexy and entertaining.
I understand that there are people out there who find it entertaining BUT when it becomes soooo difficult for women like me and Jenna to find a fiction book that does NOT involve abuse relationships, you know there's something deeply twisted and horrifying going on here.
We just wanna read some healthy, cute and sexy romance stories without any rapey scene and blatant psychological violence/manipulation (which is romanticised - and that is NOT realism! Murder is also real but you don't see Stephen King romanticising it and encouraging people to murder each other). Is that too much to ask? *sigh*
Especially when it goes against the character's morals and their attitude.
it can only be sexy if it's a kink thing, not a full abusive relationship. the kink aspect gives room for aggression but the straight up abusive Bs is revolting.
*sneaks off and writes a book with EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE TROPES IN IT!* *evil Laughter*
You. I like your style.
lol! Anything can be done if done correctly. :P
I prefer to read less than ideal relationships and even abusive relationships.. but Jesus Christ I cannot STAND romanticizing it. I think it’d be fine of it was shown as it really was but acting like it’s a good relationship is gross and plain bad for readers
I agree. Abusive/ unhealthy relationships are more interesting but when you romanticize them not only are you going against what I want you're also being very ignorant
@@goldenlotus3598 And that reminds of that one author who had published her book around year 2011 which it became popular (it was a fanfiction from a popular series) then later on had an adaptation. In an interview, she said that her novel was "kinky" or something like that, but really it was dub-con and abuse.
@@animelovergirl8461 Are you referring to Fifty Shades of Grey?
@@avacadotoast5571 Yup.
"If someone was born yesterday it doesn't matter if they have boobs. She is still a newborn, and you're still disgusting" I think she just destroyed The fifth element at the end there :O
#1 Reminds me of everyone STILL romanticizing Harley Quinn and Joker.
Corey Fischer I wouldn't romanticize it but I also don't despise it because they are messed up people doing messed up things. No one is supposed to take that as an ideal of romance.
Luna CL And yet, people do. Which is kind of disturbing.
Yep, can't disagree
It's really gross. People just love abusive relationships!
Yeah and it doesn't help that the comic books even spell out how abusing and sick it is ppl still romantice it.
"Sounds like a great book... For me to throw in the garbage."
Thanks for brightining up my day! I love listening to you while I work- it's like having a sassy and supportive aunt talking to me while I write.
LOL, awww, I love that!
Jenna, even if you gauge your eyes out you can still enjoy books by using AUDIBLE! AUDIBLE has thousands of audio- wait... what do you mean Audible isn’t the sponsor?
The chosen one trope is overused, but it can definitely be done well with great writing. Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, LOTR (sort of), Buffy, Avatar, Star Wars are great examples. But yeah, the rest of those tropes can go straight to hell.
A good writer can turn anything into gold, however mediocre or just novice writers tend to lean on cliches without doing anything interesting with them. Unfortunately, I find that fantasy fiction tends to lean on that trope way too much.
Avatar? You mean the TV show or the James Cameron movie?
Kimi FW Lol definitely the show, which is amazing! Just saying...
Neo from the Matrix
Tariq Thomas technically Percy wasn't the chosen one, just the POV character. Thalia, Nico, and Bianca could have been the ones
I was expecting to come in here and be like 'there aren't really bad tropes so much as overused ones'.
And then you kicked it off with romanticising abuse and talked about power imbalance and yeah okay you very much had a point.
There's a girl in my school named "Kaylen" but her name is spelled "Caoilfhinn". So I guess the complicated names are acceptable if they're Irish lol jk (but seriously that was how you spell her name).
You can pick out an Irish name pretty quickly. If you have no idea how to pronounce it, it's probably Irish. I've got a classmate named Siobhan (pronounced shove-on) and I've run into a Saoirse (pronounced seer-sha) once.
I'm Irish and I can confirm this (obviously, I can pronounce most to all of these names, but if I was foreign, I would definitely struggle with them)
thepianothatwaited Or Polish, or Welsh.
Rule of thumb:
Has a Z (or 20), J (especially in the middle), K (especially "-ek" or "-ski") or W pronounced as V: Polish
Has a double L/D/F at the start or a lack of vowels: Welsh
Has too many vowels and a few stray Hs: Irish
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names.
There are a few cultures that do this, not just the Irish ... and I have no idea why.
I used Irish and Scottish names for my characters. One has an Arthurian name...
#7 Yeah, I totally hate that trope!
**proceeds to reluctantly rename my main character from UltraThorius Ramrod Hyperthrust and his wife Lunaseance Mystical HyperThrust to something easier to pronounce**
How about the trope of sexual violence toward women being the go-to when trying to add angst or tragedy to their character? Like, if a woman has a tragic backstory, it's either going to involve rape or a dead child or both. And I have lost count of how many times a male love interest was boosted up by a scene of him saving the female protag from getting raped. Rape and near-rape are traumatic events that cause lasting mental scars, not a tool to increase the shock value of a scene!
And I hate the idea that a strong female character has to have a rape backstory or something similar explaining how she became "strong". It perpetuates the idea that survivors are damaged goods that can't go on to live a normal life and that a woman needs to have some sort of trauma explaining how she became different. If male characters are allowed to become badass adventurers without a traumatic backstory, why can't female characters?
"If male characters are allowed to become badass adventurers without a traumatic backstory,"
I think male characters usually need a backstory as well, or else they don't sound plausible. Extraordinary men or women I tend to think should have a backstory, and it seems like they generally do as backstory is a pretty common thing.
Derek G
I said "without a traumatic backstory", not no backstory whatsoever. You can give a female character a backstory that doesn't involve sexual trauma. Did you even read my comment?
Gertrud Bondesson I think you're slightly misinterpreting the use of Sexual Trauma. It plays a huge role in why she would become a soldier or whatever. I'm using a fantasy back drop in this idea as it tends to be a trope. She will be mentally broken and scared. As her story progresses she would constantly be put in small situations challenging her discomfort and current mental state until she feels that need of power so it will never happen again as the first time she was powerless and could do nothing to stop it. The motivation runs a lot deeper here than not having a traumatic past, but still managing to be a bad ass.
Or flip it on its head. She got preggos and ultimatly decided she would raise the kid with all of her heart or something. To only have the kid find out he was a rape child or something.
I swear I ALWAYS see the damn male protagonist save the woman from being raped AS THEY’RE FIRST MEETING
I inverted the Chosen One trope: One day, my protagonist wakes up and every person in the world has gained magical powers - except for him. Well yeah... it sucks. xD
Kinda sounds like My Hero Academia
@@toastymarshmallow5372 And black clover.
ToastyMarshmallow but there are a bunch of other people that don’t have quirks. About 20% of the population. And besides Deku gets a quirk
*cough cough* BNHA *choking noises*
@@Pendrake Any recommendations on that kind of storyline?
End it with a break up and write no second book.
Kensington Qualls I like the way you think
stronk
"You are the chosen one, Princess Aiiiuakeiizzizziz'a. The abuse you suffered at the hands of that 8-pack guy was just a test of your character."
I'd really like to see a top 10 things that break immersion in a fantasy novel!
Yasss pleas
Me too! Some stuff that breaks my immersion is:
- Long flowing hair that would be bound to get caught in something (plus it wouldn't stay pretty in a fantasy/post apocalyptic world without shampoo and showers)
- A character going on an outdoor adventure in high heels and not ditching them at the first opportunity
- When it looks like the villain has the hero beaten, only for the villain to say "You know your parent/partner/girlfriend who died in an accident? It was no accident, I killed them all along". Out of all the ways to taunt a hero, why did the villain have to say something guaranteed to rekindle the hero's hatred for them and relight their heroic fighting spirit?
- A band of Orcs/bandits transporting their prisoners in a cage drawn by oxes that moves so slow you start wondering why they don't just chain the prisoners together and make them march towards the destination. Bonus points if instead of oxes, a pair of the orcs/bandits are pulling the cart themselves.
Breaking your own in-universe rules. If you created them, you can follow them.
How is flowing hair unrealistic though? Fairy potions for optimal softness sound believable to me plus fantasy can take place in more than just the past.
Golden lotus
As someone with long hair in real life, I'd never do any sort of physical activity without braiding it or tying it back first, because other wise it WILL get caught in something and it can be incredibly painful. And while the fantasy genre does allow for the bending of some rules regarding magic and the level of technology, what we usually see is a world with medieval-style buildings with no signs of electricity or running water, and magic is limited and unusual. Unless the writer specifies that the protagonist actually uses magic shampoo, I'm not buying it.
"so I know this is kinda rapey, but impressionable young girls and unfulfilled wives eat it up" lmao I cackled
Jenna: *uploads video*
Angel chorus: *sings*
The bad boy and the dish rag! THANK YOU, it is one thing I genuinely can’t stand because it’s so forced. In every story. No hot guy is going to choose a girl with the personality of wet cardboard unless she is FLINGING herself at him. Never, lol
The "OMAGAD LOOK AT ME IM NOT LIKE THE OTHER GIRLS FOR X REASONS" trope makes me wanna kill myself by choking on my own puke. Awesome video as usual, tho. I really wish TSC and Eve could be translated in French, I'm dying to read them. D:
I hate the "I'm not like other girls" trope, especially since the girl saying this line usually is exactly like all the other "strong" female characters in bad fiction.
jenna always makes the best "list" type videos- so funny😂
Adult Entertainment Means Using as Much Sex, Profanity, and Gore as Possible
Ah, the bitter irony of adult entertainment. If your story uses things considered inappropriate for children, it gets an adults-only rating. Problem is, using all those things as much as possible guarantees alienating your adult viewers and attracting child viewers. Adults like subtlety and intelligence and realism, while children, or at least those who want to be grown up, like over-the-top vulgarity, because they think that's what being an adult is about. That is why Legend of Zelda games and Steven Universe draw in more adults while Call of Duty and Family Guy draw in more children. This is why BoJack Horseman has lots of teen viewers who don't understand why a seventeen-year-old sleeping with her mother's old friend whom she barely knows is a bad thing.
Steven universe? *facepalm*
I'd rather eat donkey diarrhea stuffed in dog testicles. That show is horse shit.
its true.
I was thinking about certain parts of Berserk.
" Call of Duty and Family Guy draw in more children"
From my experience, this is only really true for the internet. I don't know that many adults in the real world that like stuff aimed at kids, but I DO meet adults everyday who are obsessed with vulgar shit like family guy. Especially middle-aged men.
Uh... I clearly knew why Bojack sleeping with his old friend's daughter is a bad thing. In fact I was down right shocked that he took it that far! If there really are people around my age that sees no wrong then society is really been twisted by social media and we're all fucked.
It's more of a TV and movie trope, but I can't stand the heated argument that turns into sex. For one it says that anger is the same thing as attraction, and that dysfunction is just a sign of repressed desires. Also I've seen it so much that whenever two characters of the opposite gender start arguing and it cuts to a mid shot of them facing each other, I already know how the scene is going to end.
For number 5. How about we go the George R.R. Martin route and kill off EVERYONE!!!! INCLUDING THE MAIN CHARACTERS, lol.
Also, you are awesome.
Equal Opportunity for all!
I am no one
Are you alive? NOT ANYMORE! Lol.
Daughter-Of -Loki what if you're brown?
Fancy seeing you here. Lol. :).
I try to avoid all of these, the only one I kinda broke was the name one, the main character is named Rein (pronounced rain), but I feel this is a pretty reasonable one tbh, and it's the only example I can think of. Well, except for Naeo, but we don't talk about Naeo...
KanitoKawaii Haha, I’m the same way. I’ve improved a lot, but little me had some pretty weird names....((I’m looking at you Kanolatte.))
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names.
Rein pronounced as Rain, that's actually pretty good, unless if they're royalty ... in which case, too much on the nose.
BTW Rein is a word. It's like, the thing you hold onto when you ride a horse. So your good.
I read a book where the language and names that are commons words have h's in them. I mean it was constant so it doesn't really bother me. Here are the names "phury, rhage, revhenge, tohrment, qhuinn, hhurt, hharm." And more I can't think of. If it weren't such a good book then I'd probably get annoyed lol.
Also there's the reverse of the ''born sexy yesterday'', who's ''looks like a child, but is 1000 years old''. Just as gross. Please stop.
That born sexy yesterday trope is one of the creepiest tropes out there
We're reading romance novels for our English class and every damn novel on the required reading list features.... you guessed it... AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP! >:(
There is literally a scene where the guy grabs this girl's wrist to stop her from leaving during an argument and he's hurting her, from her perspective she even thinks he's going to hit her, yet all he can think of is how angry he is despite the fact he wants to kiss her? That's what I call fucked up!
Yep! that is not romantic, that is possession! A charming trait that usually manifests in the abusive partner, the more that said partner sees him/her as their possession and not an independent human being with their own thoughts and feelings! Ooh, now that's sexy.
That friendzone rant is something so many boys need to hear. Dude, if you don't tell me you like me, don't blame me for putting you in the "friendzone"
Top 10 books and worst 10 books you'v read? :D (Not including yours, of course.)
She might do a video talking about her favorite books but I don't think she'll do one bashing any book. She said before she doesn't want to talk badly about books she hated because she doesn't want to bash anyone's hard work.
Jenna That's our queen for you!
Love the names one, I’ve told friends writing stories that Names can be really simple. Take my first name Christopher, I’m called Chris because outside of formal occasions it’s a lot easier. To make a Fantasy name swap out vowels and replace consonants with similar sounds. Example: Chris - Chres - Kres; Daniel - Denyl, Thenyl. Short,sweet, done! If you want those long names, introduce the Character and give a shortened version, it will also help you write the character.
I think the only time I really liked the Chosen One trope is with Anakin Skywalker's downfall into the dark side due to one of the reasons of him being the Chosen One. I think it that was one of the best ways it's been done.
Griffith from Berserk
Serena Odonata yeah I do know that, that's why it's probably my favorite because yeah he did do what was promised he did end up fulfilling the prophecy of him being the Chosen One. Most people may think he failed in doing so and that even Luke Skywalker is the Chosen One now. But that's because it's done simply to further their cause and their beliefs.
Anglerr.E.D Yes my friend...
The original trilogy is just Campbell's monomyth. The parts you're talking about are the lead up to the crossing of the threshold of return.
If you’re doing the whole “chosen one” thing maybe make them do the whole “I wish I wasn’t the chosen one” thing when they realise how crappy being the chosen one is...thing.
When will writers realize that "strong female character" means "complex and well-written"? Like, you know, the various amazing ladies in Black Panther.
They'll learn when everyone stops phrasing it as "strong female character". That's my hope anyway.
Isn't that a movie and not a novel though? Big difference between the two.
undeadpresident Exactly.
I think it should adapt to "compelling female character" probably?
PeriwinkleSpazz ‘female character with agency and plot relevance, not there to be a Sex Trophy’
I find it painfully ironic that most of the women in my writing group write terrible female characters.
Best writing vids ever
thank you!
"What's your name?"
"Romanadvoratrelundar"
"I'll call u Romana"
"No"
"Its romana or Fred"
"Alright then, Fred"
"Good. Come on then romana"
Oh... I've used the "Chosen One" trope:
"You are the only one to survive touching this artefact. You, my friend, are the Chosen One."
"... Oh crap."
Turned out of course that it was all a load of bullshit, and the Protagonist was being taken for a ride. It's always more fun to do the choosing than to be chosen.
Sounds like The Lego Movie.
It's fun to take those tropes and subvert the stuffing out of them. Like at the start of the book, the Wife dies, but then she comes back as a killer zombie.
O hai Shadow!
Always, though? Never say always :)
“no man drowning in pussy is going to fall for the human equivalent of a dishrag” -Jenna Moreci, best quote ever, seriously, it’s up there with some of the stuff Shakespeare said.
I just got a great idea for an Aladdin themed porn * drums fingers Mischievously *
"Assladin: A Whole New Whore"
@@johncortez7650 I would actually read that lol
YES!!!!! I hate the whole abusive relationship thing. It is so damaging. Plus the friend zone BS. It’s not a real place. And no one owes anyone a relationship. The born sexy yesterday troupe is so creepy.
Contrivances
Specifically, when a situation is so contrived that a character's explanation of it is too ridiculous for anyone with half a brain to believe. "See, she and I were running, and she grabbed my hand, and we tripped, and that's why she was sitting on my face. Oh, and she forgot to wear underwear today. It's all a complete accident!" We the audience only believe it because we saw it happen.
A non-fanservice variation is when the plot of a story is so ridiculous that the protagonist thinks it's a joke. I don't mind when a story has a ridiculous premise, but when the protagonist outright says it's ridiculous, it makes me think the writer is aware and is too lazy to fix it or is trying to impress me with his/her self-awareness. Would you enjoy Batman as much as you do if he said he was fully aware at how insane his goal is or how childish his gimmick is? I wouldn't.
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"shining, shimmering penis...." that song will be stuck in my head for a while LOL
Oh my gosh! When you broke into song, I broke into tears. From laughing. Because that shit was gold.
me, black & gay: *sweats*
Parody trope #3 “You’re the chosen one!”
“Nice, let’s do this I have band at 8. If I’m late I’m making you suffer because YOU will be the ‘chosen one’ for my wrath.”
Fast forward
“Why are you so good at this?”
Smug look. “ I’m the chosen one. You literally told me this an hour ago. I imagine that’s why I’m good at this. Its like...” gasp, “ I’m the chosen one!”
I laughed this whole video. It’s so relatable. I’m finding a lot of books with 5 star ratings on Amazon where women are like “Hey, I love being abused by this hunky rich douchebag.” Lol.
5:51 THIS ANNOYS ME TO THE CORE!
Like I just started the shipping and BAM! They're dead._.
If you put a little air inside the bag, fish mostly survive the shipping
Midnight oh god
You may have taken that literally
And I won't apologize for it! xD
Midnight Oh okay xD
This is basically describing The Mortal Instruments.
Mary Christie
Seriously? I didn’t read it.
I just read the Infernal Devices................. let's just say that Tessa's okay. At least she chose Jem first.
Will never get tired of hearing you complain. It is honestly amazing! 😂
lol thank you!
Yeah, I agree with you. Romanticising abuse is disgusting.
I've never clicked on anything so fast. Love you, Jenna!!!
love you too!
One of my own least favorite tropes in fiction is when a character learns a valuable lesson that makes him readjust his ways... and then he/she forgets it by the next book.
Down with Aesop Amnesia!
After your last trope video, I was totally inspired to do a new arc so these videos are always welcome to me! :)
"Then it's your own fault you damn bitch."
-Jenna Moreci, 2018
I _hate_ how many female protagonists have to deal with sexual trauma. I think it's to make them appear stronger, but why don't I see it for men too? Also, rape is a very serious thing, and it should never even be _touched_ by anyone who can't do it right. This is why I stopped watching Kill Bill. Of all the deaths that happened in that movie, the least satisfying one happened to the guy who pimped out the Bride's comatose body to... at least *dozens* of men.
That could be said for nearly all "strong female character" tropes, if it truly was empowering, then why don't we see male characters do it?
"but why don't I see it for men too?"
Because then more people would start to believe that men getting raped is a thing, and it would hurt women's ownership of this issue for feminist arguments. And because it would force women to be the bad one more often (the one causing the sexual trauma), when we generally find it more natural and comfortable for the man to be the bad one in a story.
That is ridiculous, I have never spoken to a true feminist who didn't acknowledge men can be victims too. It isn't a zero sum game, and there are movies out there that depict it happening to men, such as American history X, the Shawshank redemption and Lawrence of Arabia, it just isn't used as an ubiquitous backstory for all male characters meant to be badass. And there are plenty of female villains in fiction, and it's not uncommon to see femme fatale types using their sexuality as a weapon in movies and video games.
+Gertrud Bondesson What Derek has said actually holds weight. The answer to your unspoken question lies within your first sentence: "true Feminist". A *true* Feminist is willingly open to acknowledge that male victims of sexual assault is a thing. However, there are, unfortunately, a very vocal minority that pose as Feminists (Feminazis), that have been giving true Feminists a bad name for years, and have had quite the impact on media as of late. I've seen many claims by these ill-reputable people that make direct statements to the tune of: 'men cannot be raped'; and 'all men are rapists until taught otherwise not to be'.
To this loud and obnoxious minority, being unable to victimise themselves exclusively would be a social sin, and we'd probably hear something along the lines of "male 'victims' raped me of my free speech".
Kecu Kritiques
While there are women who think that way, most of these type of comments tend to be trolls posing as feminists. I have never seen any feminist, radical or otherwise, use a phrase like "male 'victims' raped me of my free speech", I have only read it among antifeminists trying to imitate feminists without understanding the terminology. And while many women can come off as hostile towards complaints about male victims, I think that some of the sentiment also comes from men who hijack discussions about violence against women by going "what about the men?". Sexual violence against men is a problem, but it's not going to be solved if the *only* time it's brought up is whenever women try to discuss the problems they face.
I LOVE MESSING WITH THE CHOSEN ONE TROUPE! like, in one of my stories the "chosen one" is terrible, and lazy. so their best friend does all the work but the choosen gets the credit
lol the mac and cheese trick to come up with names needs to be discussed. I have seen so many people saying they came out with names with food in their mouth and saying a regular name. So much that I wonder how many published writers have done that
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names.
Mac is actually a pretty good name ... would use it for a plain fighter character or a brawny rogue.
A fantasy novel with a chosen one that doesn't want the job, so the choosing entity is just like "oh... okay" and just leaves to choose another person. The rest of the novel is a slice of life story about a background character dealing with the end of the world.
Damn, these tropes annoy the hell out of me as well, especially The Chosen One. I think the Harry Potter series is the only time I can think of at the top of my head where The Chosen One Cliché actually works. Why is it so hard for the protagonist to be the hero who rises up and fight not because they're The Chosen One, but because they just got sick of whatever the villain was doing, and decided to do something about it? That's what I'm doing for my stories.
Also, do you think you could do a vlog on how to execute heart wrenching character deaths, especially major ones? I know in your early days you have done a vlog on killing characters, but most of it was just "Should I" and "How writers react to writing deaths" Do you think you could do a vlog where you explain how you would execute a major character death that just tears the reader's heart apart?
There have been times Chosen One plots have worked. They weren't so overt as Harry Potter, but a good writer can make anything work. There is just much more examples of stories were it came off as trite and cliche.
I'd also like to see her take on writing such a scene. My way would be to strip away flowery prose and overly dramatic action. Be blunt and horrific in your realism. Since you want it to really resonate with the reader, you should make it seem like something that would happen to them. Tragic scenes in movies, IMO are more impactful when it doesn't feature artifice of music and dramatics. The character mourning shouldn't scream 'NOOO!!!' but just sit and weeps with running nose, red face, and a little hyperventilating and nausea. If you want to show the POV of the dying character, I'd say you get a little morose and describe the pain and fear they are experiencing.
I think she had a video on how to write emotional scenes, would that help?
I know. I've watched it multiple times, and she has provided with useful tips, however that video was mostly talking about sad scenes in general. I was more talking about character deaths specifically.
Corey's Reviews:
Just a warning, this ended up being REALLY long and a tad tangential so... sorry I guess? Feel free to use anything I suggest, although I warn you many of the quotes I used as examples I actually took from other things that made me cry. So, yeah.
Honestly, Character Death is just another type of sad scene. The only things you need to make sure of is that the reader cares about the dying character (if not then the readers just gonna think 'oh... sucks for them I guess'), and that it doesn't feel like the author is killing the character (by this I mean make sure the death is necessary, in character, realistic, etc. Otherwise you risk the reader being less sad and more pissed off at you.)
Find some death scenes you like and see what they have in common.
Most of this Jenna has said in some form.
If you want my advice, it's always who the character is (their history, friends etc) and what all of the characters say that really gets to me.
Another character saying "You're gonna be okay." to a character who is clearly not going to be okay. A character who immediately sees that they aren't going to be okay and responds with "No I'm not."
Final requests from the dying character ("Can you sing to me?" For example).
A character realizing they're going to die and understanding what that means.
Characters crying and trying not to cry.
Characters fighting off death to say one last thing. ("I need to tell you... before it's too late.")
A dying character saying "I'm scared." or "I don't want to die."
A dying character apologizing or thanking another character ("I'm sorry... I guess I broke my promise." or "Thank you... for loving me." for example.)
A dying character comforting a distressed friend or significant other ("It's okay. I'm okay with this." for example)
A character being really at peace with their death while another character clearly isn't ready for their friend to die ("My time has come." "No!")
A character asking another character to promise them something as they die. ("Just... promise me something, okay?")
A character asking another character to live their life happily without them ("Live without me... just be happy.")
A character that is too late to say something to their dying loved one ("I never got to... I never got to tell you I love you." for an extremely cliché example. "No! Come back please! I'm sorry, I don't hate you! I didn't mean it I'm sorry!" for a less cliché example)
A character acting calm for their friend as their friend dies, but losing it as soon as they're actually dead.
Callbacks can work really well if they're executed right ("I guess you were right. My stupidity did get me killed." or "Goodbye." "I thought you said you hated goodbyes.")
Final wishes and regrets ("I wish... we could've grown old together.")
Self sacrifice works well too, as long as it isn't OOC. Especially if it's premeditated self-sacrifice and friends have to watch as that character walks to their death.
The dying character becoming delirious and making simple observations as they die ("I feel so cold.")
The narrating character slowly coming to realize their friend is dying ("His eyes glossed over with pain as blood, far too much blood, seeped out of his wounds. His eyes were glossed over in pain as he held the hole in his stomach with red hands. It was so much blood. So so much blood. Even if he got treatment I knew there was no way... no way he would...")
The aftermath and grieving. A funeral can be sadder than the death itself.
It's usually best if you make the death long so that the characters can speak, but don't let it drag too much.
Making the death a surprise isn't necessarily bad. As long as it still has a point and doesn't feel like the author is killing the character. In fact, this can make the sadness even stronger. It's also good to use to remind the reader that the characters live in a dangerous world.
However, a death can be even more powerful if you always knew it was going to happen from the very beginning. A fantastic example of this is Silver Spoon.
Symbolism can work really well too.
Making the circumstances sad works well too. For example, the main character unknowingly kills their best friend or is forced to kill their best friend.
Last Stands can be really heartbreaking too, especially with strong characters. They fight until their very last breath, never losing that spark of determination, even when they know they can't win.
On the other hand, having a character that goes out with a whimper can be really heartbreaking too. For example, a character who barely overcomes their enemy with mortal wounds only to slowly bleed out. A character who is affected by a slow-acting poison and fights until they can't move. A character dying from an incurable disease.
One character trying so goddamn hard to save another only to fail in the end.
A character whose death is shrouded in mystery. Someone finds their body in the aftermath of a huge fight and nobody knows what happened.
A character who dies alone.
Characters that die together.
Everyone dies. (I find this doesn't have as big of an impact when it feels like it is done for no reason, or each death melds into the others. Each death must feel separate, but they have to all occur within a short period of time. This can be really tricky to pull off. This can be done especially well if it is known they'll all die beforehand. For example, Halo: Reach is a prequel to Halo, in which Master Chief is the last Spartan. As such, in Halo: Reach you start the campaign knowing that all the Spartans on your team are going to die, but it's well executed so it's still sad.)
A character who redeems themselves with their death.
A sudden, instant death. So sudden, the thought they were going to die never even crossed the character's mind. They might've even been killed mid-sentence. But be careful this doesn't feel like it's coming out of left field.
Honestly, the most key component tho is making sure that the death makes sense, is in character, isn't an absurd coincidence, had a purpose etc. Because if not, then instead of the reader bawling their eyes out, they're going to throw the book across the room in a fit of rage. If it feels like you're filling a quota of "well, this many characters need to die" or that you're picking who dies out of a hat, people are not going to be happy, and they're not gonna be sad either. If you make your characters likeable than the death will probably be inherently sad.
Also make sure the other characters (at least the ones you're supposed to like) find the death sad and mourn the character. Otherwise the reader will get pissed.
Basically all I did was give you a bunch of sad tropes lmao oops
You make a very good point, and that makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. I haven't finished reading the books for the first time (currently up to Prisoner of Azkaban) but from what I've read from the books, and seen from the movies (I've seen all 8 movies) It does seem like he takes it upon himself to do the right thing not because he's The Chosen One, but because it's the right thing to do. It seems like he doesn't really consider himself as The Chosen One until the last three movies.
Another dose of reality from Jenna, who ain't afraid to tell it like it isn't - but should be!
That spelling of the name Gary though 😂
That reminded me hard about a Patrick Rothfuss video where he complains about idiotic names in fantasy, including the somehow mandatory apostrophe in at least one of the names.
He wanted his names to sound real and it worked, he chose names eerily close to some used in Asia (forgot the country), but also in the Netherlands (more specifically, some were pretty close to Frisian names. Such a small area that it astounded. I'd had classmates named almost exactly the same, with one letter different in the spelling).
I love that. I want to be able to hear that stuff, otherwise the writing confuses me. Normal names make people love you (so don't call your character Pug...)
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names.
Gary ... how about Gaary ... extend the pronunciation of the vowel sound ever so slightly.
I love how honest you are, it's great. The world needs this lol
We like listening to your complaints because we often times share them. Since you’re skilled and charismatic super wonderful it validates our own feelings. Plus if any writers in the audience are doing these tropes then we can realize it and stop. Your complaints are also incredibly hilarious. You make the terrible things we see everywhere funny and easy to spot.
I'm writing a story that either avoids tropes or runs parallel to a few. I just don't like a lot of them and think tropes don't encapsulate reality. Sometimes actions are not tied to each other, sometimes it takes agency to make these things connect. One day when I finish I hope everyone will read it and it inspires others to write so I can read even more stories that I will enjoy.
Thank you for coming to my TedTalk. Lol
A lot of your videos help me with writing an internet series I’m working on. I’ve been watching you since August and I love your videos.
awww, thanks!
Your number three is really gonna help me when I start actually writing books I’m thinking about publishing! Thank you for that!
"His name is pronounced Gary but it's spelled QZW Roman Numeral 6-"
😂😂
You got me at Roman Numeral 6 but everything else after that had me ☠
Taking a regular name and spelling it weird, with a slight difference in pronunciation, yeah, I do that often in my D&D campaigns for any recurring character that will advance the plot, as it makes the character instantly memorable because no one else is named that, and if the players remember nothing else about them, they'll remember their names.
Gary ... how about Gaary ... extend the pronunciation of the vowel sound ever so slightly.
I once made a character a few years ago who was basically the reverse of one of these tropes. In a setting where most characters had relatively normal names, like Becca or Fred, this guy was named Steve. Like, it was spelled Steve, but the pronunciation was not even close to it, and the joke was that, since this is a written medium, the readers would never actually know how it was supposed to be pronounced. His parents just thought it was hilarious, and he never changed his name because he agreed with them.
ON TIME SQUAD
I just came across your videos and feel like a reason for them so far is half you walked through the YA section at Barnes and Noble and half you tried to read George RR Martin. I am loving these.
Do... People actually... Get off to yearbook photos? Mine always looks terrible, so atleast I know it'll never happen to me, but like really?
"If the character's black and gay, they're definitely f&%ked."
...Would you mind if I used this quote in the description of my book? XD
Can I paraphrase your friend zone comment in my own book? It would be the MC trying to smack some sense into his friend.
Sees this video, thinks back too all the novels I read, including the ones I am trying to forget. These tropes were so spot on. Thanks to you and a few others, I have enough knowledge about tropes to analyze every teen fiction novel. It's probably the next superpower.