I just started my first cider project on a whim. Neighbor had a billion ripe apples (2 varieties!) so I had to. So about 40 kilos of apples yielded around 26L of juice through my Omega slow-masticating juicer. Shredding the apples took away from juice yield initially. And to about a cup of apple juice I added about 5g of sourdough starter and mixed - the step you explain at 5:50. I incubated the solution in my oven with the oven light on for a controlled temperature of 115°F/46°C overnight and it took off! A foam rose to the top and it was bubbling like champagne. I should have stirred it at 7:10 , but it received plenty of oxygen. By the evening it had separated into what looks like at 8:00. I came here wondering if I pitch the whole solution or just the sediment. Turns out either is ok. I opted to pour out some of the liquid. I'm glad I used a minimum amount of starter (5g) as to limit the amount of wheat flour in my brew. It yielded a lot of yeast. Thanks so much for this video. I hope I abridged you system well.
The direct contact between the glass flask and surface of an electric burner COULD cause it to break, much like cutting glass with flame. Gas stoves make more of a "pillow" of heat instead of a focused contact point of heat.
Great video. Where do you get the flask weights? Heating a glass flask on a gas flame it’s recommended to use a wire gauze sheet with ceramic centre to distribute the heat.
Big thanks for the video. Great content... I have been wanting to brew my own beer for years now, but never got around to making the investment in the equipment. Now I'm really interested, and priming myself with great knowledge...
You can make an impromptu hot plate though with a cast iron or thick steel skillet (don't try with non-stick coatings) and a layer os silica sand. which spreads out the heat.
So nice to see Americans getting to grips with the metric system. A useful thing to know …. When using water, 1 millilitre (ml) of water weighs 1 gram (g). Therefore 1500ml weighs 1500g =1.5 kilos (k) . 1ml also is the same as 1 cubic centimetre = 1cc, ie cc=ml. So simple, so efficient. It’s still so hard to understand why the metric system hasn’t fully been accepted in the US.
Does this work for any yeast dry or liquid? I just started this year and every beer I've made are mostly all grain and dry yeast. I started rehydration of the yeast but I've noticed that US-05 doesn't grow like others do. Awesome videos!!
In general we (and most dry yeast producers) do not suggest making starters from dry yeast, rather to rehydrate as you mentioned. Fermentis specifically has said they their labs don't show any more yeast cells from a starter than from rehydrating. If you feel you need more yeast for certain fermentations, recipes, or higher-gravity beers we'd suggest simply pitching more yeast.
I'm hoping to use this method in future brews over a certain gravity. My only reservation is that some of the benefits (dryer beer, cleaner taste) seem more suited to American styles than English beer, so I guess you'd take the style into account.
glass top stoves are electric and are ok for the flask, which I do it all the time. the coil electric type stove is I believe is what you are discouraging
Doing this for the first time tonight. I have it on a stir plate with a foam stopper. I was wondering how much if any oxygen if any can get in to mix with the yeast. I would think that the co2 would cap it off keeping o2 out. Any thoughts?
Any issue with storing the wort at pitching temperature, in a fermentation fridge, for 24 hours and using 1L of it to create the starter..... Rather than making the starter with a wort that has different characteristics?
That is an idea I have never heard of before, but I think it's actually an interesting idea. The only concern would be introducing any other non-yeast microbe and risking contamination. But if your process is clean throughout it doesn't seem like an issue. However, you can also decant the majority of your start beer and swirl yeast cake into a minimal amount to reincorporate before pitching if you are concern about blending in too much of a different beer. Usually starter are fairly neutral and don't affect the overall beer much. But these are all interesting new ideas. I also know people who will basically just make a starter with first runnings of wort and by the time the boil is down and cooling complete that "day-of starter" is showing signs of activity and ready to pitch. (Chip @ NB)
Using a stir plate today. My yeast starter doesn't have a swirling vortex. The stir bar does spin because I tried with water first, the cooled wort and yeast arent vortexing like the water did.
Micheal dawson, nice vid dude. Enjoyed the brain oil! One question.... How important is the temperature of my cooled wort. I heard from wyeast that yeast doesn't like temperature changes over 5 degrees. To accommodate the yeast i leave the smack pack and cooled yeast on the counter over night so the temp is the same. Then mix the starter and turn on the stir plate. Is this necessary. Also, do u use 50 ml cylinders to measure the solid by volume percentage? Thats the best way way, right?
When doing a two-step propagation, what do you consider high gravity? Would you have to do that for an OG of 1.070 to finish around 1.010, or is a yeast starter at the size you made be enough yeast?
If I were using dry Lavlin EC1118 to brew some cider, then washed it in the end, could I use apple juice as a starter? Just put it in fridge to slow down?
If I were wanting to grow more yeast I could leave it out on the counter for 24-48 hours before pitching into the next batch instead of the fridge for safe keeping?
A couple questions... Can I make the wort ahead of time (how long can I store it for? and what are the limitations of the 2 step for a ten gallon batch...how many times can I I repeat the process in the same flask... aka I want a lot of identical yeast as I want to try to make several batches or beers with slight difference but not have yeast be a variable?
you just need to keep it agitated, shaking vigorously could potentially up your chances for contamination if any outside particles where to get into the starter.
588158 I’m still a beginner but judging by what was on my white labs yeast package it would result in more yeast growth and more yeast present to pitch
No, using normal sugar isn't recommended as it will ruin your yeast's ability to deal with malt sugar. Small ratios of table sugar in your beer is cool because the yeast will still have mostly malt sugar to deal with, but a starter needs to be like a real beer, so only use dry or liquid malt extract.
or make one for yourself... I bought a cheap stir magnet bar from ebay for $1.99... used a pc fan, magnet from a dead harddisk, and rest from my old junk of electronic devices.. search "diy stir plate" on youtube
Why would you ever wish to pour the entire starter's wort volume into your fermenter? That's usually pretty skanky stuff. DON'T DO THAT. As mentioned, take a day to chill the starter, decant, allow to warm and add some of your fermenter's wort, mix well and pitch. Very simple and much better.
Why not? Just disolve some honey in water and boil.. 2oz to a quart should do. Add a pinch of yeast nutrient since honey doesnt have a lot of amino acids for yeasties to reproduce
Sorry for the delay. It's something about the heat distribution of the coils on an the older electric ranges. The flame on gas ranges allows for more even distribution of heat. It's possible new flat-tops are better, but the regular old electric coils would probably lead to trouble for your flask.
You can have too much yeast a/k/a overpitch yeast... but it's not nearly as much of a problem as underpitching yeast. Check out this link from Wyeast: wyeastlab (dot) com (slash) com-pitch-rates (dot) cfm
+robbie gaston Anybody tested out the Womezon Remedy (look on google search engine)? I have heard several amazing things about this popular disease treatment.
It's tribute to the beer gods. Hahahaha. But seriously, as you likely already know, many people will pour the whole starter into the full batch rather than decant. But since the starter might have fermented hotter than the rest of the beer (and thus built up some unfavorable flavors along the way) I always feel it's better to just pour that little bit out for the greater good.
Hi, you made one massive mistake! You pitched the whole starter into your brew. Disgusting beer made from Malt Extract. What you should do....... Make your starter one day earlier. After 24 hours, turn Stir Plate off and let Yeast settle. Just before pitching, pour of un-wanted wort from Starter. And add some of your just brewed Wort to Yeast, Swirl and add to new brew! Perfect fermentation every time!
OR you could make your own yeast in a jar, then add that yeast to your starter then add your starter to the main batch and cut out your yeast costs. Yeast can be created from pretty much and fruits or sugary plant. (though the taste of the plant will effect the brew. this can also be beneficial if making apple moonshine apple ale, etc. etc. etc. )
Northern Brewer sells 1000ml flasks in their yeast starter kit, yet you are demo-ing with a 2000ml flask. Since I only have 1000ml flask, do I cut the recipe in half? Don't want to limit the effectiveness of the starter.
+Roodypoo - Nah. That's Mike Dawson. Watch a few of NB other videos, called BrewingTV. He was the primary host from episode 1 until episode 68 ish. He's just a mellow dude.
I always paid more and pitched two bags instead of one. I’m glad I’m switching. This will change my game. Thanks!!
Awesome. Plus, making a starter sends some seriously hungry yeast into the freshly brewed wort.
this is the best video out there about yeast starters, thanks so much. helped me a lot
I just started my first cider project on a whim. Neighbor had a billion ripe apples (2 varieties!) so I had to. So about 40 kilos of apples yielded around 26L of juice through my Omega slow-masticating juicer. Shredding the apples took away from juice yield initially. And to about a cup of apple juice I added about 5g of sourdough starter and mixed - the step you explain at 5:50. I incubated the solution in my oven with the oven light on for a controlled temperature of 115°F/46°C overnight and it took off! A foam rose to the top and it was bubbling like champagne. I should have stirred it at 7:10 , but it received plenty of oxygen. By the evening it had separated into what looks like at 8:00. I came here wondering if I pitch the whole solution or just the sediment. Turns out either is ok. I opted to pour out some of the liquid. I'm glad I used a minimum amount of starter (5g) as to limit the amount of wheat flour in my brew. It yielded a lot of yeast. Thanks so much for this video. I hope I abridged you system well.
The direct contact between the glass flask and surface of an electric burner COULD cause it to break, much like cutting glass with flame. Gas stoves make more of a "pillow" of heat instead of a focused contact point of heat.
Damn broo I remember seeing your videos since high school... almost 10 years ago...
Such a great video. UA-cam needs Mike Dawson back.
Great video. Where do you get the flask weights?
Heating a glass flask on a gas flame it’s recommended to use a wire gauze sheet with ceramic centre to distribute the heat.
Big thanks for the video. Great content... I have been wanting to brew my own beer for years now, but never got around to making the investment in the equipment. Now I'm really interested, and priming myself with great knowledge...
Certainly answered all my questions, many thanks.
The sweet sound of Michael Dawson’s voice
It can lull a homebrewer to peaceful sleep, right?
You can make an impromptu hot plate though with a cast iron or thick steel skillet (don't try with non-stick coatings) and a layer os silica sand. which spreads out the heat.
Thank you for this great video!
Glad it was helpful!
So nice to see Americans getting to grips with the metric system. A useful thing to know …. When using water, 1 millilitre (ml) of water weighs 1 gram (g). Therefore 1500ml weighs 1500g =1.5 kilos (k) . 1ml also is the same as 1 cubic centimetre = 1cc, ie cc=ml. So simple, so efficient. It’s still so hard to understand why the metric system hasn’t fully been accepted in the US.
Does this work for any yeast dry or liquid?
I just started this year and every beer I've made are mostly all grain and dry yeast.
I started rehydration of the yeast but I've noticed that US-05 doesn't grow like others do.
Awesome videos!!
In general we (and most dry yeast producers) do not suggest making starters from dry yeast, rather to rehydrate as you mentioned. Fermentis specifically has said they their labs don't show any more yeast cells from a starter than from rehydrating. If you feel you need more yeast for certain fermentations, recipes, or higher-gravity beers we'd suggest simply pitching more yeast.
I'm hoping to use this method in future brews over a certain gravity. My only reservation is that some of the benefits (dryer beer, cleaner taste) seem more suited to American styles than English beer, so I guess you'd take the style into account.
kirbsmeister2 Or increase the mash temperature so that it produces more complex sugars that yeast can't break down.
super helpful and clear explanation. thanks!
Many thanks from new home brewer!
ty ty ty cant thank you enough for all the information
Thank you! Great video! This was very helpful.
Great video, thanks guys
Adding some yeast nutrients and yeast energizer helps too.
Indeed!
Upsell
Do you need to temp control your yeast starter like you do your beer after pitching?
Very helpful; thanks.
Very good explanation. Thank you. :-)
glass top stoves are electric and are ok for the flask, which I do it all the time. the coil electric type stove is I believe is what you are discouraging
How helpful!!! Thanks a lot! :)
Doing this for the first time tonight. I have it on a stir plate with a foam stopper. I was wondering how much if any oxygen if any can get in to mix with the yeast. I would think that the co2 would cap it off keeping o2 out. Any thoughts?
Any issue with storing the wort at pitching temperature, in a fermentation fridge, for 24 hours and using 1L of it to create the starter..... Rather than making the starter with a wort that has different characteristics?
That is an idea I have never heard of before, but I think it's actually an interesting idea. The only concern would be introducing any other non-yeast microbe and risking contamination. But if your process is clean throughout it doesn't seem like an issue. However, you can also decant the majority of your start beer and swirl yeast cake into a minimal amount to reincorporate before pitching if you are concern about blending in too much of a different beer. Usually starter are fairly neutral and don't affect the overall beer much. But these are all interesting new ideas. I also know people who will basically just make a starter with first runnings of wort and by the time the boil is down and cooling complete that "day-of starter" is showing signs of activity and ready to pitch. (Chip @ NB)
This is awesome video.
Using a stir plate today. My yeast starter doesn't have a swirling vortex. The stir bar does spin because I tried with water first, the cooled wort and yeast arent vortexing like the water did.
I finally got it to work. You really have to play around with the position of the flask on stir plate.
Hi
Is any kind of yeast should work in this case like rice yeast wine -beer yeast or we should use a special kind of yeast
Can you use LME for a starter?
So if your making a start for a 10 gallon batch and you drain the wort off and add more dme wort do let that ferment out again for another day?
Micheal dawson, nice vid dude. Enjoyed the brain oil! One question.... How important is the temperature of my cooled wort. I heard from wyeast that yeast doesn't like temperature changes over 5 degrees. To accommodate the yeast i leave the smack pack and cooled yeast on the counter over night so the temp is the same. Then mix the starter and turn on the stir plate. Is this necessary. Also, do u use 50 ml cylinders to measure the solid by volume percentage? Thats the best way way, right?
When doing a two-step propagation, what do you consider high gravity? Would you have to do that for an OG of 1.070 to finish around 1.010, or is a yeast starter at the size you made be enough yeast?
Can Dark DME be used when making a Starter? I will be making a Stout beer and will have some left over. Thanks.
If I were using dry Lavlin EC1118 to brew some cider, then washed it in the end, could I use apple juice as a starter? Just put it in fridge to slow down?
If I were wanting to grow more yeast I could leave it out on the counter for 24-48 hours before pitching into the next batch instead of the fridge for safe keeping?
do you add any nutrients to the starter or the carboy during fermentation?
thanks you
I have an oxygen tank w/ diffusion stone to aerate my main wort.
Will this work in a yeast starter flask instead of the continuous agitation?
Would doing this twice (like the en of the video suggested for high gravity beers and 10 gallon batches) be equivalent to a 3L starter?
I would consider high gravity above 1.090, and would not think a 2-step necessary for anything less. YMMV
Good video!!! Thanks
Minor correction: in this context, innoculate means to introduce microbes (yeast in this case) to a culture medium (the wort).
Hello , do i need a foam stopper or can i just use a regular stopper? Thanks
You could just use the foil. I was in Milwaukee last year and picked up one of those foam stoppers at their store. Before that I just used foil.
Dont use normal bungs.. yeasties need oxy in this phase.. use a sanitised aluminum foil and wrap it around the flask mouth..
Can I use a dry yeast with DME and a stir plate,or does it need to be liquid
It is recommended to wake up the yeast in 30C water. After about 10 minutes, you can follow the steps in the video
A couple questions... Can I make the wort ahead of time (how long can I store it for? and what are the limitations of the 2 step for a ten gallon batch...how many times can I I repeat the process in the same flask... aka I want a lot of identical yeast as I want to try to make several batches or beers with slight difference but not have yeast be a variable?
Unless you dehydrate and vacuum it, this stuff goes bad quickly... even if it doesnt get infected.. I ve tried
Great video. How long will it take to harvest?
When I do a yeast starter I let mine go for 24 hours.
Question: why would you swirl the liquid instead of shaking the flask?
you just need to keep it agitated, shaking vigorously could potentially up your chances for contamination if any outside particles where to get into the starter.
Will a good stir plate cut the amount of time it takes to make a good batch of yeast???
IMHO quality of a stir plate doesnt make much of a difference.. except for your pockets
I live in Uruguay and we dont have dry malt extract here. What other options do I have? Thanks.
frozen wort.
perhaps you could make a "wort" out of steeped grain or even just with sugar and yeast nutrient.
I was once in a pinch and made one with only plain white table sugar, worked fine
Hi there,
If I have no dme at home, is ok if I use table sugar?
you won't get all the nutrients the yeast needs to grow if you only use table sugar
I am making 5 gals of hard cider and want to use a yeast starter. Is there any advantage to using a 2000ml starter over a 1000ml starter?
588158 I’m still a beginner but judging by what was on my white labs yeast package it would result in more yeast growth and more yeast present to pitch
If i don't have dry malt extract, what else can i use??? is it ok to use just sugar???
+Ignacio lópez yup
No, using normal sugar isn't recommended as it will ruin your yeast's ability to deal with malt sugar. Small ratios of table sugar in your beer is cool because the yeast will still have mostly malt sugar to deal with, but a starter needs to be like a real beer, so only use dry or liquid malt extract.
I have a few bottles of liquid malt extract, can i use it?
yes
can we do this for cider / mead / wine too?
For wine starters you dont want DME.. you can go simply with plain table sugar and a pinch of yeast nutrient..
Do all yeast starters have to be made in one of those flasks? I see them on every video
the advantage with erlenmeyer flasks is you can take it straight from the stove and put it in chilled water without it shattering
my first time I just used a growler I had
How long do you leave on the stir plate for the yeast starter?
nj
nancy OReilly I give it at least two days in case it takes a while to get started. Especially with yeasts like Wyeasts Ringwood Ale yeast.
NorthernBrewerTV...how much is the stir plate?
Jordan Wilson The one they sell at NB is $130. There are other stir plates that are just as good on the market for less than half that much.
or make one for yourself... I bought a cheap stir magnet bar from ebay for $1.99... used a pc fan, magnet from a dead harddisk, and rest from my old junk of electronic devices.. search "diy stir plate" on youtube
the tiny batch of wort has to be the same recipe as the main batch?
laserie2 no. Just dry malt extract.
i think the main concern is making sure the starter is made with the same sort of sugar the main beer will use, Malt in particular.
Why would you ever wish to pour the entire starter's wort volume into your fermenter? That's usually pretty skanky stuff. DON'T DO THAT. As mentioned, take a day to chill the starter, decant, allow to warm and add some of your fermenter's wort, mix well and pitch. Very simple and much better.
Yes but since LME doesn't keep as well as DME you might end up wasting the rest of yoru LME if you don't use it quickly
do you have to make a yeast starter for a mead??????
Why not? Just disolve some honey in water and boil.. 2oz to a quart should do. Add a pinch of yeast nutrient since honey doesnt have a lot of amino acids for yeasties to reproduce
Why don't you want to use an electric stove with the flasks
Sorry for the delay. It's something about the heat distribution of the coils on an the older electric ranges. The flame on gas ranges allows for more even distribution of heat. It's possible new flat-tops are better, but the regular old electric coils would probably lead to trouble for your flask.
DME= durable medical equipment?? just kidding. great video. Thank You!
Can someone tell me how much difference a stirplate makes?
flashtin166 www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
3 folds
You can have too much yeast a/k/a overpitch yeast... but it's not nearly as much of a problem as underpitching yeast.
Check out this link from Wyeast:
wyeastlab (dot) com (slash) com-pitch-rates (dot) cfm
Why can't it be boiled on an electric hob out of interest?
+robbie gaston I guess as boil overs aren't as easy to control?
+robbie gaston
there is a risk that the flask will crack from what I've read...
+robbie gaston Anybody tested out the Womezon Remedy (look on google search engine)? I have heard several amazing things about this popular disease treatment.
Isn't pouring a liter of flat (still) beer down the drain tantamount to alcohol abuse? From a N.B. customer, and home brewer for 42 years.
It's tribute to the beer gods. Hahahaha. But seriously, as you likely already know, many people will pour the whole starter into the full batch rather than decant. But since the starter might have fermented hotter than the rest of the beer (and thus built up some unfavorable flavors along the way) I always feel it's better to just pour that little bit out for the greater good.
Can some one guide me here
I want to start doing a home brew🙇♀️
Go to their website
need to make show about 500 years ago before kits or beakers. thanks in advance
*****
exactly!
Stupid question: can you have too much yeast?
Yes overpitching is possible.
Hi, you made one massive mistake! You pitched the whole starter into your brew. Disgusting beer made from Malt Extract. What you should do....... Make your starter one day earlier. After 24 hours, turn Stir Plate off and let Yeast settle. Just before pitching, pour of un-wanted wort from Starter. And add some of your just brewed Wort to Yeast, Swirl and add to new brew! Perfect fermentation every time!
OR you could make your own yeast in a jar, then add that yeast to your starter then add your starter to the main batch and cut out your yeast costs.
Yeast can be created from pretty much and fruits or sugary plant. (though the taste of the plant will effect the brew. this can also be beneficial if making apple moonshine apple ale, etc. etc. etc. )
+Kane Rhodes because brewing is about random yeast. Might as well use bread yeast if one were to follow your advice.
Corona brought me here. No yeast across europe. Peace and distance.
Northern Brewer sells 1000ml flasks in their yeast starter kit, yet you are demo-ing with a 2000ml flask. Since I only have 1000ml flask, do I cut the recipe in half? Don't want to limit the effectiveness of the starter.
this dude sounds like he is trying to talk with a lower voice than he has
+Roodypoo - Nah. That's Mike Dawson. Watch a few of NB other videos, called BrewingTV. He was the primary host from episode 1 until episode 68 ish. He's just a mellow dude.
+Steven Heffelfinger OK
LOL I was thinking this exact same thing and then I read this comment. Classic.
It's not a dude.
Super melllllow.
the terminology is all fucked in this video, inoculate not propagate...