Correction, the founders of Zionism were not focusing on "the covenant". It was about saving the Jewish nation from destruction by building a homeland.
Exactly. One of the many things he got wrong in his simplistic presentation. Most of the early Zionist leaders were uninterested in Judaism and many were in fact atheists.
This was very curious. It’s true that many *Christian* proto-Zionists in the US and UK - I’m thinking in the 1830s through the 1860s or so - were focused on the fulfillment of prophecy etc. Jewish proto-Zionists following the Damascus Affair contained a religious component, but were really focused on survival, given that neither Christian nor Muslim states could or would protect them.
No it didn't, Israel is a man not a place the 12 tribes of Israel are the 12 sons of Israel, the land was called cannan, the tribe of Judah which king David was from came from the land of Judea.....the land was never called Israel historically, it also wasnt called Palestine either but that's a different topic
@@moffat5914 Israel was, and is, considered a nation. America is considered a nation. Germany is considered a nation. China is considered a nation. And Palestinians, if I'm not mistaken, also consider themselves a nation, but as you mentioned that's a different topic and history. Yes, a people can be considered "a nation". Whether it was named Judea or not, in the historic and religious texts of the times, Israel existed as a nation thousands of years ago.
I haven't heard so much nonsense and inaccuracies and unfounded comparisons in a long time, I don't even know where to start correcting. If this is the level of knowledge of the lecturers at the university, it is no wonder that the students do not understand anything about reality
What? Are you mischaracterizing both World Wars as a christian crusades? Or did I missed few in 20th century? The last chart looks dubious.. if not intentionally misleading.
yeah,that stood out to me as well....complete false equivalence so he can make a comparison to Christians and groups like Boko Haram and ISIS. None of the WW were in the name of Jesus,Christianity etc and its ideology wasnt a driving/dominant factor or used as a justification for the wars. Even in Medieval Europe most wars between european kingdoms werent on the basis of Christianity(sure it has been used as a political tool). To compare radical Islam today which followers geniunely want to murder/convert etc the "non-believer" on the basis of Islamic theology and Christianity is so insincere
I agree. Naturally, there is no explanation of its source, data collection method, or context. That graph tells you nothing about the reality of the religions but only manipulates the impression of them.
Right, even if Stalin and Hitler hadn't been atheists, there was nothing Christian in their wars. The idea is just as ridiculous as claiming that the Chinese cultural revolution killed 80 million people on behalf of Buddhism. Preposterous. Criticize the Christians all you like: There's plenty of material without just making stuff up.
4:10 A bit misleading to say there were Palestinians AND Christians. Contrary to what many people imagine, a sizeable proportion of the Palestinian population is Christia.
I noticed the same. Saying Jewish, Christians and Palestinians is incredibly misleading, as the first two are religions and the latter is a nationality. Palestinians come from all ibrahimaic religions. The conflict is between Zionists (colonizers) and Palestinians (colonized, displaced, killed, tortured..). It's sad that Jewish people are being betrayed by this violent, extremist ideology.
Although it’s also true that the Christian population of Palestinians living in Palestine has decreased dramatically over the last few decades, both in actual numbers and in proportion to the population. This is also true in Israel.
Yep, Saying Christians, Palestinians and Jews is very misleading. Palestinian is a national status and not an ethnicity. There were Christians, Arabs and Jews and all of them were Palestinians
@Genarii - as soon as the Sturmableitung throwing these "mostly peaceful" protests prevent anyone from going about their normal, legal daily business it is violent. 20 people surrounding someone, half a centimeter from them, shouting angrily, prevending them from moving by intimidation is for all practical purposes, kidnapping.
5:33 - Whoops. He may want to reword that. Never heard a college professor get away with calling the crimes against Jews during the Holocaust "beyond reproach." 😂
This professor is really downplaying the extremism in the population. Rough estimates indicate that 15 - 20% of Islam hold to extremist ideologies. The other point is that Islam is not just a religious belief but also a political movement. Islamic countries have the worst human rights records as well as persecution of other religions. You can't compare that to Western countries or Israel.
You don't see many surveys on this, but of the few that have escaped media censorship, the "support" numbers are far worse even than these. I don't claim to know more than this, and I even like the professor, but I find him intellectually "not-rigorous."
The colonialisation of Israel by various nations, including Arabs & Europeans, must be deplored. The indigenous Jews should control their own destiny, their own country... called Israel.
The historical background here is pretty vague and maybe a little anachronistic. For (relatively) short free summaries of the time before the establishment of Israel, I recommend reading "Ottoman Policy and Restrictions on Jewish Settlement in Palestine: 1881-1908-Part I" for pre-mandate Jewish immigration and "A Survey of Palestine: 1945" for the timeline of Mandate Palestine from the English perspective.
@@eden5260I'd say it's still pretty relevant though. Particularly since it's being posited that certain historical injustices are driving current events in the region. But if your origin story is historically inaccurate, then the theory that said events are the genesis of current problems, falls apart.
@@JesseWoolmer if you come with the Palestinian narrative and claim that is historical you're on the crazy side Just to let you know. What affects current events Is about Islam and pan Arabism Learn that and get back . No injustices drive violence every single story of people in the world as 10 times the injustice than this one.
Whether the followers of a religion end up peaceful or violent depends not only on the religion, but also on whether people follow what defines the religion, the role model. There is a certain difference between holding a peaceful man without political ambitions as your role model and holding a warlord as your role model.
I get his point, but he really misrepresented A LOT of history and religion with his simplistic, relativistic presentation. He should stick to sociology -- he's no good at history.
@@norahe1953 Delineating what he is good at -- his actual academic discipline -- and what he's not -- a different academic discipline -- isn't "insulting" him. That you can't tell the difference -- how very modern of you.
@@norahe1953It’s not an insult. It’s weird you can’t see that. And you yourself insult the OC in your first comment with your sarcasm and then write “respectfully”? Sorry, the respect train left the station when you insulted him.
wow, every one debating on this conflict needs to see it. every side just shouting their own narrative and not seeing the other side or the complex context of the situation or humanity in general.
Correction, the founders of Zionism were not focusing on "the covenant". It was about saving the Jewish nation from destruction by building a homeland.
Exactly. One of the many things he got wrong in his simplistic presentation. Most of the early Zionist leaders were uninterested in Judaism and many were in fact atheists.
Yea that was very bizarre of him to say!
Right all he did was state religious zionism, and pretend it was all of zionism.
This was very curious. It’s true that many *Christian* proto-Zionists in the US and UK - I’m thinking in the 1830s through the 1860s or so - were focused on the fulfillment of prophecy etc. Jewish proto-Zionists following the Damascus Affair contained a religious component, but were really focused on survival, given that neither Christian nor Muslim states could or would protect them.
Secular Zionism was cuz antisemitism in Europe .
Forgot to mention that it used to be called Israel many thousands of years ago.
No it didn't, Israel is a man not a place the 12 tribes of Israel are the 12 sons of Israel, the land was called cannan, the tribe of Judah which king David was from came from the land of Judea.....the land was never called Israel historically, it also wasnt called Palestine either but that's a different topic
@@moffat5914 Israel was, and is, considered a nation. America is considered a nation. Germany is considered a nation. China is considered a nation. And Palestinians, if I'm not mistaken, also consider themselves a nation, but as you mentioned that's a different topic and history. Yes, a people can be considered "a nation". Whether it was named Judea or not, in the historic and religious texts of the times, Israel existed as a nation thousands of years ago.
@@moffat5914 It was 100% called Israel thousand of years ago my man. Do some research.
@@moffat5914 Kingdom of Israel dummy .
12 tribes of Israel
Judea
3 different times in history all involving the Jews
@@moffat5914before it was the kingdom of David or the Kingdom of Judah, it was the Kingdom of Israel... Literally for centuries, my man.
I haven't heard so much nonsense and inaccuracies and unfounded comparisons in a long time, I don't even know where to start correcting. If this is the level of knowledge of the lecturers at the university, it is no wonder that the students do not understand anything about reality
I'm with u, it's a romantic inacurate description of history. Too many inaccuracies, one could write a papper on it, going point by point.
What? Are you mischaracterizing both World Wars as a christian crusades? Or did I missed few in 20th century? The last chart looks dubious.. if not intentionally misleading.
yeah,that stood out to me as well....complete false equivalence so he can make a comparison to Christians and groups like Boko Haram and ISIS. None of the WW were in the name of Jesus,Christianity etc and its ideology wasnt a driving/dominant factor or used as a justification for the wars. Even in Medieval Europe most wars between european kingdoms werent on the basis of Christianity(sure it has been used as a political tool). To compare radical Islam today which followers geniunely want to murder/convert etc the "non-believer" on the basis of Islamic theology and Christianity is so insincere
I agree. Naturally, there is no explanation of its source, data collection method, or context. That graph tells you nothing about the reality of the religions but only manipulates the impression of them.
Right, even if Stalin and Hitler hadn't been atheists, there was nothing Christian in their wars. The idea is just as ridiculous as claiming that the Chinese cultural revolution killed 80 million people on behalf of Buddhism. Preposterous. Criticize the Christians all you like: There's plenty of material without just making stuff up.
4:10 A bit misleading to say there were Palestinians AND Christians. Contrary to what many people imagine, a sizeable proportion of the Palestinian population is Christia.
I noticed the same. Saying Jewish, Christians and Palestinians is incredibly misleading, as the first two are religions and the latter is a nationality. Palestinians come from all ibrahimaic religions. The conflict is between Zionists (colonizers) and Palestinians (colonized, displaced, killed, tortured..). It's sad that Jewish people are being betrayed by this violent, extremist ideology.
Although it’s also true that the Christian population of Palestinians living in Palestine has decreased dramatically over the last few decades, both in actual numbers and in proportion to the population. This is also true in Israel.
Yeah, this fellow is way too uninformed to be lecturing to young minds on this topic.
Yep, Saying Christians, Palestinians and Jews is very misleading. Palestinian is a national status and not an ethnicity. There were Christians, Arabs and Jews and all of them were Palestinians
The graph considers protests as violence, I would contest that
"Mostly peaceful" riots, right?
Protests could include violence, but obviously are not automatically violence. Are you sure the graph considers *any* protest violence?
@Genarii - as soon as the Sturmableitung throwing these "mostly peaceful" protests prevent anyone from going about their normal, legal daily business it is violent. 20 people surrounding someone, half a centimeter from them, shouting angrily, prevending them from moving by intimidation is for all practical purposes, kidnapping.
We all gotta face the truth in the end... Thank you as always
5:33 - Whoops. He may want to reword that. Never heard a college professor get away with calling the crimes against Jews during the Holocaust "beyond reproach." 😂
This professor is really downplaying the extremism in the population. Rough estimates indicate that 15 - 20% of Islam hold to extremist ideologies. The other point is that Islam is not just a religious belief but also a political movement. Islamic countries have the worst human rights records as well as persecution of other religions. You can't compare that to Western countries or Israel.
You don't see many surveys on this, but of the few that have escaped media censorship, the "support" numbers are far worse even than these. I don't claim to know more than this, and I even like the professor, but I find him intellectually "not-rigorous."
Colonization can never be justified no matter what.
Right! So we cannot justify also the Arab Expansion and Colonialism as well.
The colonialisation of Israel by various nations, including Arabs & Europeans, must be deplored. The indigenous Jews should control their own destiny, their own country... called Israel.
This is really bad. Im not even sure if its biased to the Israeli or palestinian side. It's just wrong.
American media so bad that you can't believe there can be an unbiased media, or at least one that considers all sides
The historical background here is pretty vague and maybe a little anachronistic. For (relatively) short free summaries of the time before the establishment of Israel, I recommend reading "Ottoman Policy and Restrictions on Jewish Settlement in Palestine: 1881-1908-Part I" for pre-mandate Jewish immigration and "A Survey of Palestine: 1945" for the timeline of Mandate Palestine from the English perspective.
Very poorly done historical background
The historical background wasn't the main topic here . He isn't a history teacher
@@eden5260I'd say it's still pretty relevant though. Particularly since it's being posited that certain historical injustices are driving current events in the region. But if your origin story is historically inaccurate, then the theory that said events are the genesis of current problems, falls apart.
@@JesseWoolmer if you come with the Palestinian narrative and claim that is historical you're on the crazy side
Just to let you know.
What affects current events
Is about Islam and pan Arabism
Learn that and get back .
No injustices drive violence every single story of people in the world as 10 times the injustice than this one.
Whether the followers of a religion end up peaceful or violent depends not only on the religion, but also on whether people follow what defines the religion, the role model. There is a certain difference between holding a peaceful man without political ambitions as your role model and holding a warlord as your role model.
You have quite literally no clue what you’re talking about.
@@Lurch685whats wrong? Was he not a Warlord?
@@Lurch685YOU literally have no clue. Mohammed was a warlord.
@@Lurch685 seems like @ahkkariq7406 nailed it.
Muhammad was a warlord. He robbed caravans. @@Lurch685
I’m violent and proud 😂 survival of the fittest.
The recording looks a decade old at least.
I get his point, but he really misrepresented A LOT of history and religion with his simplistic, relativistic presentation. He should stick to sociology -- he's no good at history.
Instead of using examples to validate & enlighten on your sentiment, you insult the speaker. How modern of you.
@@norahe1953 Delineating what he is good at -- his actual academic discipline -- and what he's not -- a different academic discipline -- isn't "insulting" him. That you can't tell the difference -- how very modern of you.
@@hurdygurdyman1905 “he’s no good at history” while providing nothing objective to counter what he said would be the insult I’m referring to.
Also, you literally can not effectively teach sociology without discussing history. Respectfully.
@@norahe1953It’s not an insult. It’s weird you can’t see that. And you yourself insult the OC in your first comment with your sarcasm and then write “respectfully”? Sorry, the respect train left the station when you insulted him.
A greate class and discusion. Thx Sam and Voluntiers
wow, every one debating on this conflict needs to see it. every side just shouting their own narrative and not seeing the other side or the complex context of the situation or humanity in general.
Thank you for having civil discourse about this topic. Very refreshing compared to a lot of the content that is out there.
I wonder what his thoughts are with Sam Harris’s take. Would love to be able to afford such a professor let alone college