I’m self taught and often hang out with very technical players. They know all thier chords, arpeggios etc. They can absolutely shred their repertoire , manouche, american jazz etc. Still, I often find them stumped. When I start to jam over one chord. for example, something funky. [Minor 1 with some bass lines and Tension [vamp]] I find it very particular, how some can’t improvise over something simple, yet they can execute amazing technical movements with ease!
Good stuff - a lot of truth here. The irony is that we revere all of those musicians who came before us who learned their craft and style long before videos or music schools were around. But they learned by listening, practicing, and playing with others. Which ain't the way many tend to learn now.
People who think that music must be a note for note recreation of somebody else’s idea are the musical equivalent to fascists. Ignore them or laugh at them.
J.S Bach is someone who should be listened to, his subtlety in regards to Chromatism is something I've learned from. I also think if you hear something you like whatever instrument it is played on you should adapt it to the guitar, so many guitarists I know only play things that were written on the guitar.
We can’t underestimate the importance of what we listen to. What you put in your ear comes out your playing. Having a vast array of genres in our listening diet is so important. Not just listen to the kind of music we play. I feel a lot of musicians forget the importance of listening to music and how that affects our ideas and our playing.
DUDE I REMEBER I WAS SUBBED TO YOU LIKE 3-4 YEARS AGO AND YOU POPPED INTO MY MIND LIKE A WEEK AGO I REMEMBER YOU PLAYED GUITAR SO ELOQUENTLY, AND I SEARCHED YOUR YT CHANNEL FOR LIKE HALF AND HOUR AND DIDN’T FIND AND NOW YOU’RE ON MY FEED, WHAT? forgive me im just so hyped
I appreciate your perspective and agree wholeheartedly. I probably have much the same musical up bringing as you. I’m 70, I started playing at 13, got bored with rock ‘n’ roll in three years. Never listen to jazz but found a teacher who played jazz and country. He was a cross between Tal Harlow and Chet Atkins. He taught me the standards chord solo style for two years. I turned on a dime to playing only jazz. The schools teach how to master the technique of playing jazz. The great guitarist that you mentioned we’re discovering different sounds and sensibilities, Baldwin amalgamated into what academically is considered the most relevant. And with most academia the qualities that rise to the top are those of expanding the vocabulary, (in music it seems to be manifested by harmonic complexity, and adoption of rhythmic identities), and the aura of elitism. Just left characteristic is one that runs contrary to the origin of jazz is a popular dance music.
My favourite jazz guitarist has always been Gábor Szabó. He was a guitarist that nobody really sounded like and he didn't sound like other people either. I guess some people don't even consider him a jazz guitarist because of how different he was. He's really the only jazz guitarist I listen to all the time and he's probably the only jazz guitarist that has influenced me in any way. I love how he could pick a song - say, My Foolish Heart - and turn it into a crazy adventure. 💖
Great points, especially about the auditory learning. Something I've noticed about the UA-cam lesson education which may be true of conventional jazz education too, is absolutely no attention to composing anything but lines. I found, even as a relative beginner, that writing a few tunes taught me a ton. Sure, 95% of what I play are the standards, but making a little time to just write my stuff has been the best.
Enjoyed your perspective. I am not a jazz player. I play finger style, a mix of classical, Celtic, Spanish, etc. I am currently trying to throw in some African influence like Ali Farka Toure. Casting a wide net of influences can help as well. Bach is an idol of mine too.
Wow this was eloquently put. There is a real, tangible difference between musicianship and technical ability. The latter is further propelled through various forms of content machines, but the former is not what a lot of people do, myself included!
I think you’re right on with your assessment. But, I think it’s a factor of when you come up and what’s prevalent at the time. The early cats, as you pointed out, didn’t have UA-cam or the internet or computers so they used what was prevalent when they came up. I came up in the early 60’s so I had more available to me than the earlier players and on top of that the social culture at that time was hippies, drugs, acid rock, Hendrix, Zeppelin and so on. But when I began digging jazz, I listened to the guitar players who came before like Wes, Kenny Burrell, and the rest. I always thought Kenny B. had the best tone for jazz by the way. But I also dug piano players like Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Oscar Peterson, Chic, Monk and others for my ideas on harmony and chords. Plus I also listened to a lot of horn players like Miles, Trane, Freddie, Dexter, Phil Woods, etc. for melodic ideas. I learned theory from friends and figuring out how to put the puzzle together on my own. In the beginning it was as if all the puzzle pieces were face down and the big picture of what it all looked like was some abstract idea inside my ears. If I’d have had UA-cam and the internet and computers back then I’d have used them too but they weren’t prevalent for me. What was prevalent was a lot more live music and bands than there are out there today. Me and my buddies would hitch hike miles just to catch a live group we liked and would stand right next to the stage near the guitar player and watch him all night. That’s harder to do these days because there are fewer venues with live music and good bands. Entertainment in general seems to have morphed from groups of live musicians playing instruments to individuals singing and dancing to backing tracks and loops they might create themselves. But in the end I try be philosophical about it and realize we’re all just a bunch of leaves floating down the big river of life with not much control over where the current takes us. It’s all music, it’s all good and it’s all ever evolving into what it will be. Listeners change too, not just the musicians. I’ve met many young people who have never seen a live band before. Their idea of music is a good set of ear buds and their cell phone. Now to me that ain’t music. There’s nothing like experiencing the raw energy of a good live band with a horn section comprised of cats who can play their axe. I’m old school though and yearn for those days to return although I know they never will. Here’s a tune I wrote played by my trio, guitar, bass, trumpet. Hope you dig it. ua-cam.com/video/-2KB0goyq1M/v-deo.htmlsi=5Y77Aft9B4isGCR8
…i can only speak about the two years i attended Berklee when it was still the original building/campus at 1140 Boylston?…the headiness of passing Gary Burton or Alan Dawson in the hallway…8am Harmony? class with Greg Adams, trumpet, Tower of Power…Emily Remler walking through the Dorm hallways with her guitar case (one of my roommates dated her)…playing ping-pong with Kenwood Denard, another friend’s roommate (he was unbeatable)…we watched parents lead their shell-shocked son out of the dorm (too many alcohol/drugs, too much stress) and lost another classmate who lost his student ID card, and his life, when he tried to retrieve it from the bottom of the elevator shaft and was crushed to death…during this period, mid 1970s, you conformed to the curriculum, there was no interest or acceptance or emphasis on individuality…ironic given the times and the nature of the music we were studying…the standard was how well you soloed over Bop changes…Swing, Modal, Post-Bop, Free simply didn’t exist…there were fairly robust classical lessons but no meeting of Jazz and Classical and other styles were never acknowledged…it was an excellent experience crammed with information, new people and the opportunity to live briefly in one of the worlds great cities…
Sounds like you were at Berklee at a very exciting time. I am in Massachusetts and went to law school in Massachusetts but did not formally attend Berklee. However, I am well acquainted with many of the faculty and some of the known famous players and musicians who have attended ... I think schooling in general is intended to indoctrinate us and it is very difficult to develop individuality even in a creative environment. Sometimes you are there to build on a foundation and woodshed and only after you have left does your creativity and individuality blossom.
I totally agree with you, one of the few modern players who has his own charachter I think is Julian Lage. Gilad Hekselman is a good example of what you says. Gilad during an interview said he is using a specific ambient pedal (the Avalanche from Earthquaker Devices) almost as an always on pedal. I personally like Methenyesque sound but my favourite player is still Bill Frisell
Well said. I learnt to play by ear too, listening intently to old Rock & Roll/Rhythm & Blues/Blues songs/licks. It was hard work by I loved it. I learnt to play Led Zep's "Rain Song" using standard tuning, played it for years until I found out a few years ago it was played in alt tuning !!! But it improved my ear and playing by doing that. Doing the same with Jazz-Jazz-Blues now, it's too easy to sit and watch videos, but not the way I learned to play.
you are right about the effects.......as well, certain guitars emitt certain tonality......i think of DANNY GATTON.....using the biting sound of a TELECASTER....but playing some great jazz lines and modes....he was in his own league.....JMOP
ye playin that vinyl countless times and figuring out solos/chords etc..was exhilirating when it worked..that was my growth.great topic.and yes you are correct in your emphasis on individuality..''its a strange strange world we live in.. master jack''..
Gary Bartz says similar things I think he agrees with what you are saying. What I think is that a jazz artist cannot be mass produced The schools had to figure out a way to do this The old cats listened and listened. The would wear a record out Bird and Wes and the others HEARD every note they played Their fingers were guided by their own developed intuitive sense
Merely speculation, I don’t know the industry but perhaps modern production plays a role. Sound engineers all guided by what they are told is good from their days in college and approaching it in a cold business manner with a lot of young dazed musicians feeling stuck making deals and bargains. Also remember we have a lot more people out here now hitting record, fascinated with themselves instead of the music, I got a little lost myself. You’re right, the act of closing your eyes and listening/playing is importance. I’m glad people are here to remind me that My problem is I’m one hundred percent improv. Got to figure out my own structure now and tell a real story instead of a tall tale, really putting myself under the microscope and trying to understanding what drags me around. We’ll get to where we all need to be, Best luck to you all
its worrying how many people ingest music through videos now. as a kid, i didnt know what the musicians looked like, i only heard them. i think, among other things, this makes music more pop-influenced - its a lot of young, cool-looking people, because that is what people want to "see".
My teacher (im in 2 year of bass lessons) make me improvise every now and then and he always says: "i will never teach you licks because after that you will play those automatically, i want to hear what you have to play" and he is right. Im still not good but i can improvise music by myself (chord progressions, ideas etc) and over songs. After failing a lot because improvising is hard now i can decently and i have tons of fun. My teacher have only 4 bass students (we live in a small city) but we all sounds different and we all have different approach to music, it's super cool.
¡Muy bueno, tío! Pero hay que tener en cuenta que la originalidad es una cuestión de talento y de trabajo. El trabajo está al alcance de muchas personas, pero el talento solamente lo tienen unos pocos elegidos. Saludos desde Madrid.
It’s the same reason why at one point all Sax players ‘sounded’ like Mike Brecker. Many of the new generation of guitarists seem to focus on technical ability and ‘clever’ harmony, and regard the contemporary leading players as the go to for Jazz guitar. For most, they can also relate more to that style of playing than the African American Jazz Masters who played with Soul,Groove and Swing. The reason those Masters you mentioned were so great, is that they dealt with the truth of Jazz, not what now seems to be an escapism from the core elements, which inspired an individual sound.
100% agree i used to feel insecure about my setup even though it’s almost $900 because my pedal is so old and outdated but lately i’ve been loving its not the best but there are definitely some unique sounds People just wanna sound like everyone else i’m like i just wanna sound good
Modern metal had the same problem. Everyone is trying to sound the same and all using mostly all the same gear. Originality and creativity is at a low point in a lot of genres right now with a few exceptions. I love metal, used be a harsh vocalist, but got burnt out. When I play my guitar and bass, I play everything but metal lmao I’ve come to realize that what I like playing and what I like listening to are usually very different. Sometimes I play heavy music, but not as much as I did around 15 years ago. What I play/write myself is more inspired by personal things from my life. Also, being Autistic, music is how I express myself as I dont always know how to with words. But usually I pick up my bass and play what I feel. It’s basically my form of therapy. My instruments have become an extension of me, my thoughts, and my emotions.
There was a UA-cam shred contest within the last couple years. All very good technical players, but their tone was exactly the same. Only one player had a different tone.
Another reason a lot of guitarist now sound all the same is that they are not innovating, not pushing the envelope and not searching for new harmonic ideas. It's mostly all about technique.
well the thing is the goalpost for what makes someone a good guitarist keeps getting pushed like everyday i see someone shredding w some new techniques and it just feel like i’m falling behind like i gotta complete all this other shit before i can call myself a guitarist There’s so much art that is amazing already it’s just easy to try and copy what you hear
@@alldud13 wait 5 or 6 years from now, it'll all go back to basics like it did with punk in the 70s and technique will become frowned upon again. Then you can make it big with 3 power chords and the lick from johnny b goode 🤣
It is the same with sports. Here in Europe there were many great individual soccer players in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Today the sport has become more athletic and faster, but the players have become pure tactical monsters from the tube and you rarely see real individual class.
and most of them are a bunch of pussies diving at the slightest touch rolling around like they've been shot.... Ruined the game..... Women's football is pure football.
Seems everyone studies the same artist and learning pathways. Alan Holdsworth was the last guitar player I heard that was truly unique. To me most modern Jazz guitar players either sound like West Montgomery light or Kenny Burrell light.
Nice. I find myself too thinking that a “jazz” guitarist has to sound a particular way. Now its no pedals, that “jazz tone” etc.. Which is all BS of course. Sometimes someone new comes along eg: Julian Lage but even then coming from Bill Frisell “tradition”. I think of players like Brandon Ross (Harriet Tubman) who rejects the labels thing totally.
You are right, whether these are exceptions to the rule is subjective. I also consider his view that some leave academia because they’ve gleaned enough to go on and expressed themselves in more individual ways. The genre of jazz guitar just now so expensive at the same time I think he is right that many guitarist come out of school with a skill, but lack individuality.
Thank you for this! It was very enlightening. I do think about these things from time to time. I think those reason that you mention are definetley possible reasons. I would add perhaps lack of personal or individual vision? I also think that listening to other types of music can make a person sounding less similar. I am primarily a blues guitarist but I listen to classical, jazz, country, metal, pop, progressive etc and I think all of that contributes to individuality. If you let it. I just had another thought and that would be expectations from a musical genre. Expectations of hearing certain things makes for similarities between players within a genre? What do you think?
Back in the day, only those with natural talent would gain facility on the instrument. There was no such thing as "aNyBoDy cAn lEaRn." Also, at some point, the musical language within the instrument is set in stone.
I will offer the suggestion that the reason is : they only play 1 melody line at a time. even if it is with chords thrown in. Listen to Charlie Byrd. Listen to Bach. Listen to Pachelbel. These guys added infinite possibilities past what can be done with a single line... because using harmonic melodies instead of melodic lines on their own ( like most soloists ) ... adds VAST amounts of possibilities. When i realized this, I decided to master guitar. Yes the equipment is different. but the BEST people ( who know how to express their unique self as well, of COURSE! ) are the ones who can weave multiple melodies together. This is just counterpoint.... sadly , there is not nearly enough of this going on. Many guitarists now are not composers in their own right. So, their limitations are their experiences. When they get exposed to multiple melodic lines , and that the whole is greater than the sum of parts! vastly greater. lets talk!
Bottom line - the best 🎸 are from the 60s -70s and some 80s Jeff Beck, Alvin Lee, Rory Gallagher, Roy Buchanan, Robin Trower, Johnny Winter, Hendrix, Frampton, Duane Allman, Troy Caldwell ( Marshall Tucker) Roy Bachman,
I agree that the biggest issue these days is that everything is self referential. People also want to play for clout, basically. To show off that they can play the "I went to music school" style. It's all very inauthentic.
I've been listening to "jazz" guitarists forever, now I'm pretty bored with the "sound of the "jazz guitar". Personally I seek out players now who have left the older tradition of what constitutes jazz guitar sound. I think tweeking the sound of the guitar with some modern pedals and playing with a more angular approach is what interests me now.
We're in a period of history where people want honest incentives to work hard, and most all of the lanes society approves of to work hard in have dishonest incentives. This creates a cognitive dissonance in the minds of young people, and people who don't have a solid historical reference point culturally. Thus, working hard to get good the old way is less rewarding now, as the incentives are very different. Our young people will be throwing out a lot of the old ways of thinking here pretty quickly, and a new musical zeitgeist will arrive, much like rock n roll in the 40s and 50s.
Totally agree, + with time musicianship also changes.Nowadays 'fame' is a goal, for many, while before 'social media' era, people trained for musicianship, and fame was a by product of your work, nowadays, people aim for fame, not Music! Also, popular music has never been so poor and formated !
You don't have to name names, I already know. I can listen to streaming music for a few hours and hear different guitarists and they all sound like the same one.
I believe another thing is they all use the same style of guitar and pickups! Afraid to use single coils, P90s, solid bodies, etc. Everybody sounds the same using picks through humbuckers.
Isn't it the same take emulating favorite bands or records? I mention this because our bandleader wants a layer of guitar similar to Oasis. I personally cannot stand Oasis. Their first two records sound the same to me and the songs sound similar in terms of production. Same effects used, no variant on the sound. I told him, I do not chase tone dragons. I gave that shit up a good 22 years ago and it was freeing. I want our band to have their own sound which comprises of our backgrounds and styles, not emulating other bands down to a wall of sound or overdrive tones. I have my own sound, my own style and benefit from playing with others whenever possible to have fun and grow. I don't want to be boxed into "you gotta sound like XYZ". Nope. Not happening.
I have to disagree with the premise. I don't think the grandmasters who are active right now sound the same at all. Just first three off the top of my head, Miles Okazaki, Jeff Parker, and Mary Halvorson - each has a totally incredible, original voice. More come to mind, Peter Bernstein, Bobby Broom, Dan Wilson, Cecil Alexander... Perhaps you mean those in the student and pro/master camps sound the same. But in that case I would suggest that since the beginning of jazz every medium or bigger city has had at least 10 cats who are good enough to be a pickup band when a grandmaster comes through town. Those journeyman players are actually some of my favourites, but their names aren't in history books because they actually do all kind of sound the same. I don't mind putting a few names out there, like Doug Raney or Rene Thomas. Those guys were fucking killer players, but they didn't ultimately have that really unique voice that gets your name in the history books. So yeah, I have to respectfully disagree, but good video keep em coming, see you again soon.
The main reason why many guitarist sound the same now, is they adore and worship others wanting to be like that just to impress people with the stuffs their favorite guitars does, Same with the whole whole everything is about copy, UA-cam will advice you to copy or do somethihg similar to a video doinf well, this theme is running the whole world now. I sometimes play in the streets, in Europe you can play or sing the best song ever made or play like God, they wont move or care, unless you play what they heard before, they care about doing something they heard before, repeat, copy, same, similar, they are wired to hate new things even if beautiful. In Belgium unless you play ie copy what they alreay know they wont celebrate you, they lost their ears for knowing what is good even if its new. Thank God africa still has their ears intact. Africans can hear a song for the first time and they start vibing without control without shyness. The west is almost sheeple, programmed people no longer real individual. they force people to copy. Even the song of today are mostly plagiarism based. They feel if it doesnt kind take from older song it cant be a hit. People today are under a spell or mass hypnosis, the hits songs today are based on views, because a song has much views to them it must be a great song, so also decide to like it. Not based on their judgement. I can go on and on. Its a shame. I am a guitar player and I dont sound like any particular guitarists
Thats why i play Flamenco and only Nylon strings.... Removed any electric guitar and quit Western(Anglo-Saxon) Music, because i am BORED TO HELL FROM IT.
@DoctorMandible lol.... Flamenco is half Arabic, Half Gypsy,Half Spanish. Its in Pfrygian mode (which originate from Asia Minor). By Western we all mean Anglo-Saxons.
@@sigiligus I think everybody understood my words. Amerikan and British music is what i got bored, due to poor Harmony and same melodies last 100 years. Anything else?
Well I guess you also have to see the ratio. Today, there are simply much more Guitarists around, then there where in the 60s or the first half of the 20th century. That's why, It gets more and more difficult to make a difference even at a pro Level, but then there are still a handful also of contemporary Guitarists of whom I would think that they have a very unique sound, I would go even so fsr to say, that some of them reinvented music, but are just not as famous anymore as the greats from the 60s. I'm thinking here of guys like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Jesse van Ruller or Reinier Baas from the Netherlands for instance. The old Generations of Guitarists instead where Superstars. Pat Metheny was playing in Stadiums and Wes Montgomery was concerting in famous TV Shows. The interest and the market for Jazz in the beginning 20th Century was simply different then today. That's why you'd probably get the impression, that in todays world Guitarists sound all the same, because, yes partially also because of the growing education offering, there are now much more of them, but also because the truth is, that the era of Guitarsuperstars, where George Benson, Pat Martino, Pat Metheny or Wes Montgomery where Big Names is simply over. There where a handful of Guitarists who where really famous, but since Jazz music became more and more of an Underdog Genre, that got a little repressed nowadays, the really interesting Guitarists are not anymore as famous or visible.
Most people try to replicate the people they like. Rather than be original. Or create something new. If you go to school of a conservatory or Berkelee Music you become copies of a program. Which is what killed classical music. They don't allow you to move from what they approve. It is very obvious signs of this with violin. There is no voice hasn't been for years because it became academic and not musical.
The reason they all sound the same is because they learn from the same places and they learn by focusing on shortcuts or hacks. It's particularly the hacks that bred the same approach. Gear is part of it.
The blues is missing#1 You missed that. All those killer cats we love were blues players. Education 2nd 3rd is equipment and effects. Oral tradition was key. But we are also in different time. What is happening now is just as important. Social media is reality. Technology is the new thing for guys 34 and younger. So thats my truth.
Ironic how the vast majority of blues players today sound both numbingly similar and outdated to boot. It's not blues influence that people need, it's personal creativity.
Because nobody is actually playing anything any more. All we see is exercises, sweeping up and down, scales, gimmicks to get views, whatever it takes to show off on instagram or youtube.
Agree. It sometimes sounds more like somebody working on math problems when they're playing jazz nowadays then actually playing music. There's no soul or emotion in a lot of it, rather simply an exhibition of mechanical skills. I think this comes from learning from the same academic sources these days, whereas in the past the learner would work with records, or go out and listen and interact with musicians. Who wants to listen to someone working out math problems auditorily?
that opening was beautiful
I’m self taught and often hang out with very technical players. They know all thier chords, arpeggios etc. They can absolutely shred their repertoire , manouche, american jazz etc.
Still, I often find them stumped. When I start to jam over one chord. for example, something funky. [Minor 1 with some bass lines and Tension [vamp]]
I find it very particular, how some can’t improvise over something simple, yet they can execute amazing technical movements with ease!
That way you will develope your unique sound
I notice that with people who only read music.
One requires strict adherence to a metronome and self, the other to other musicians and complimenting the music rather than soloing
Some folks just can't let go and trust themselves
Let me put it in layman's terms. So-called technical players rely on muscle memory. They can't free ball it.
Good stuff - a lot of truth here. The irony is that we revere all of those musicians who came before us who learned their craft and style long before videos or music schools were around. But they learned by listening, practicing, and playing with others. Which ain't the way many tend to learn now.
If you don't play the music exactly the way it is on the record, someone tells you that you are playing it wrong.
........And then Frank Zappa walks in. 😁
People who think that music must be a note for note recreation of somebody else’s idea are the musical equivalent to fascists. Ignore them or laugh at them.
Use other pplz music to practice but create your own. I’m preaching to myself 😅
Great video
@@geoffstockton And the people easily capable of note for note accurate covers are fascists?
Guitarists - go transcribe piano solos!
J.S Bach is someone who should be listened to, his subtlety in regards to Chromatism is something I've learned from. I also think if you hear something you like whatever instrument it is played on you should adapt it to the guitar, so many guitarists I know only play things that were written on the guitar.
We can’t underestimate the importance of what we listen to. What you put in your ear comes out your playing. Having a vast array of genres in our listening diet is so important. Not just listen to the kind of music we play. I feel a lot of musicians forget the importance of listening to music and how that affects our ideas and our playing.
Most people are afraid to try and be unique. Just go for it and explore sounds
DUDE I REMEBER I WAS SUBBED TO YOU LIKE 3-4 YEARS AGO AND YOU POPPED INTO MY MIND LIKE A WEEK AGO I REMEMBER YOU PLAYED GUITAR SO ELOQUENTLY, AND I SEARCHED YOUR YT CHANNEL FOR LIKE HALF AND HOUR AND DIDN’T FIND AND NOW YOU’RE ON MY FEED, WHAT?
forgive me im just so hyped
Synchronicity (Carl Jung)
Well said and very thought provoking!
I appreciate your perspective and agree wholeheartedly. I probably have much the same musical up bringing as you. I’m 70, I started playing at 13, got bored with rock ‘n’ roll in three years. Never listen to jazz but found a teacher who played jazz and country. He was a cross between Tal Harlow and Chet Atkins. He taught me the standards chord solo style for two years. I turned on a dime to playing only jazz.
The schools teach how to master the technique of playing jazz. The great guitarist that you mentioned we’re discovering different sounds and sensibilities, Baldwin amalgamated into what academically is considered the most relevant. And with most academia the qualities that rise to the top are those of expanding the vocabulary, (in music it seems to be manifested by harmonic complexity, and adoption of rhythmic identities), and the aura of elitism. Just left characteristic is one that runs contrary to the origin of jazz is a popular dance music.
My favourite jazz guitarist has always been Gábor Szabó. He was a guitarist that nobody really sounded like and he didn't sound like other people either. I guess some people don't even consider him a jazz guitarist because of how different he was. He's really the only jazz guitarist I listen to all the time and he's probably the only jazz guitarist that has influenced me in any way. I love how he could pick a song - say, My Foolish Heart - and turn it into a crazy adventure. 💖
I just started picking my guitar up after 10 years of rest. Thank you for this video!
Great points, especially about the auditory learning. Something I've noticed about the UA-cam lesson education which may be true of conventional jazz education too, is absolutely no attention to composing anything but lines. I found, even as a relative beginner, that writing a few tunes taught me a ton. Sure, 95% of what I play are the standards, but making a little time to just write my stuff has been the best.
What an incredible intro. I practice and aspire to play like this everyday. God Bless.
Enjoyed your perspective. I am not a jazz player. I play finger style, a mix of classical, Celtic, Spanish, etc. I am currently trying to throw in some African influence like Ali Farka Toure. Casting a wide net of influences can help as well. Bach is an idol of mine too.
Wow this was eloquently put. There is a real, tangible difference between musicianship and technical ability. The latter is further propelled through various forms of content machines, but the former is not what a lot of people do, myself included!
I think you’re right on with your assessment. But, I think it’s a factor of when you come up and what’s prevalent at the time. The early cats, as you pointed out, didn’t have UA-cam or the internet or computers so they used what was prevalent when they came up.
I came up in the early 60’s so I had more available to me than the earlier players and on top of that the social culture at that time was hippies, drugs, acid rock, Hendrix, Zeppelin and so on.
But when I began digging jazz, I listened to the guitar players who came before like Wes, Kenny Burrell, and the rest. I always thought Kenny B. had the best tone for jazz by the way.
But I also dug piano players like Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Oscar Peterson, Chic, Monk and others for my ideas on harmony and chords.
Plus I also listened to a lot of horn players like Miles, Trane, Freddie, Dexter, Phil Woods, etc. for melodic ideas.
I learned theory from friends and figuring out how to put the puzzle together on my own. In the beginning it was as if all the puzzle pieces were face down and the big picture of what it all looked like was some abstract idea inside my ears.
If I’d have had UA-cam and the internet and computers back then I’d have used them too but they weren’t prevalent for me.
What was prevalent was a lot more live music and bands than there are out there today. Me and my buddies would hitch hike miles just to catch a live group we liked and would stand right next to the stage near the guitar player and watch him all night. That’s harder to do these days because there are fewer venues with live music and good bands. Entertainment in general seems to have morphed from groups of live musicians playing instruments to individuals singing and dancing to backing tracks and loops they might create themselves.
But in the end I try be philosophical about it and realize we’re all just a bunch of leaves floating down the big river of life with not much control over where the current takes us. It’s all music, it’s all good and it’s all ever evolving into what it will be.
Listeners change too, not just the musicians. I’ve met many young people who have never seen a live band before. Their idea of music is a good set of ear buds and their cell phone. Now to me that ain’t music. There’s nothing like experiencing the raw energy of a good live band with a horn section comprised of cats who can play their axe. I’m old school though and yearn for those days to return although I know they never will.
Here’s a tune I wrote played by my trio, guitar, bass, trumpet. Hope you dig it.
ua-cam.com/video/-2KB0goyq1M/v-deo.htmlsi=5Y77Aft9B4isGCR8
So much truth is articulated in your comment. I totally 1000% agree with all your points!
…i can only speak about the two years i attended Berklee when it was still the original building/campus at 1140 Boylston?…the headiness of passing Gary Burton or Alan Dawson in the hallway…8am Harmony? class with Greg Adams, trumpet, Tower of Power…Emily Remler walking through the Dorm hallways with her guitar case (one of my roommates dated her)…playing ping-pong with Kenwood Denard, another friend’s roommate (he was unbeatable)…we watched parents lead their shell-shocked son out of the dorm (too many alcohol/drugs, too much stress) and lost another classmate who lost his student ID card, and his life, when he tried to retrieve it from the bottom of the elevator shaft and was crushed to death…during this period, mid 1970s, you conformed to the curriculum, there was no interest or acceptance or emphasis on individuality…ironic given the times and the nature of the music we were studying…the standard was how well you soloed over Bop changes…Swing, Modal, Post-Bop, Free simply didn’t exist…there were fairly robust classical lessons but no meeting of Jazz and Classical and other styles were never acknowledged…it was an excellent experience crammed with information, new people and the opportunity to live briefly in one of the worlds great cities…
Sounds like you were at Berklee at a very exciting time. I am in Massachusetts and went to law school in Massachusetts but did not formally attend Berklee. However, I am well acquainted with many of the faculty and some of the known famous players and musicians who have attended ... I think schooling in general is intended to indoctrinate us and it is very difficult to develop individuality even in a creative environment. Sometimes you are there to build on a foundation and woodshed and only after you have left does your creativity and individuality blossom.
I totally agree with you, one of the few modern players who has his own charachter I think is Julian Lage. Gilad Hekselman is a good example of what you says. Gilad during an interview said he is using a specific ambient pedal (the Avalanche from Earthquaker Devices) almost as an always on pedal. I personally like Methenyesque sound but my favourite player is still Bill Frisell
You are spot on here man. Great analysis! I'm going to save this for later 😊
Well said. I learnt to play by ear too, listening intently to old Rock & Roll/Rhythm & Blues/Blues songs/licks. It was hard work by I loved it. I learnt to play Led Zep's "Rain Song" using standard tuning, played it for years until I found out a few years ago it was played in alt tuning !!! But it improved my ear and playing by doing that. Doing the same with Jazz-Jazz-Blues now, it's too easy to sit and watch videos, but not the way I learned to play.
you are right about the effects.......as well, certain guitars emitt certain tonality......i think of DANNY GATTON.....using the biting sound of a TELECASTER....but playing some great jazz lines and modes....he was in his own league.....JMOP
Loved the “we used to listen to musicians play, rather than seeing people playing”. @RickBeato would be great to have your opinion on this!
Not true, actually. The phenomenon of the celebrity musician and rock star was way more about "watching The Guy play."
This makes so much sense! Thank you so much for sharing this!!!
ye playin that vinyl countless times and figuring out solos/chords etc..was exhilirating when it worked..that was my growth.great topic.and yes you are correct in your emphasis on individuality..''its a strange strange world we live in.. master jack''..
Found a cool channel! Subbed!
Gary Bartz says similar things I think he agrees with what you are saying.
What I think is that a jazz artist cannot be mass produced
The schools had to figure out a way to do this
The old cats listened and listened. The would wear a record out
Bird and Wes and the others HEARD every note they played
Their fingers were guided by their own developed intuitive sense
you sound great!
5:00
A good example of this is Josh Homme from QOTSA who learned the guitar from an accordion teacher because thats the best his parents could afford.
Merely speculation, I don’t know the industry but perhaps modern production plays a role. Sound engineers all guided by what they are told is good from their days in college and approaching it in a cold business manner with a lot of young dazed musicians feeling stuck making deals and bargains.
Also remember we have a lot more people out here now hitting record, fascinated with themselves instead of the music, I got a little lost myself. You’re right, the act of closing your eyes and listening/playing is importance. I’m glad people are here to remind me that
My problem is I’m one hundred percent improv. Got to figure out my own structure now and tell a real story instead of a tall tale, really putting myself under the microscope and trying to understanding what drags me around.
We’ll get to where we all need to be,
Best luck to you all
Bro I have been thinking this for years, thanks for articulating whats in my head.
its worrying how many people ingest music through videos now. as a kid, i didnt know what the musicians looked like, i only heard them. i think, among other things, this makes music more pop-influenced - its a lot of young, cool-looking people, because that is what people want to "see".
great points you bring up and gorgeous playing too
Love your point about auditory learning vs watching YT videos.
perfectly stated! good job
My teacher (im in 2 year of bass lessons) make me improvise every now and then and he always says: "i will never teach you licks because after that you will play those automatically, i want to hear what you have to play" and he is right. Im still not good but i can improvise music by myself (chord progressions, ideas etc) and over songs. After failing a lot because improvising is hard now i can decently and i have tons of fun. My teacher have only 4 bass students (we live in a small city) but we all sounds different and we all have different approach to music, it's super cool.
¡Muy bueno, tío! Pero hay que tener en cuenta que la originalidad es una cuestión de talento y de trabajo. El trabajo está al alcance de muchas personas, pero el talento solamente lo tienen unos pocos elegidos. Saludos desde Madrid.
Great, thoughtful analysis!
It’s the same reason why at one point all Sax players ‘sounded’ like Mike Brecker. Many of the new generation of guitarists seem to focus on technical ability and ‘clever’ harmony, and regard the contemporary leading players as the go to for Jazz guitar. For most, they can also relate more to that style of playing than the African American Jazz Masters who played with Soul,Groove and Swing. The reason those Masters you mentioned were so great, is that they dealt with the truth of Jazz, not what now seems to be an escapism from the core elements, which inspired an individual sound.
knowledge that leads nowhere is abundant on yt 😅😂
Great commentary!
Agree 100%
The whole electric guitar scene is almost a cargo cult at this point
100% agree
i used to feel insecure about my setup even though it’s almost $900
because my pedal is so old and outdated
but lately i’ve been loving its not the best but there are definitely some unique sounds
People just wanna sound like everyone else i’m like i just wanna sound good
those nails don't lie this guy knows what he's talking about
Modern metal had the same problem. Everyone is trying to sound the same and all using mostly all the same gear.
Originality and creativity is at a low point in a lot of genres right now with a few exceptions.
I love metal, used be a harsh vocalist, but got burnt out. When I play my guitar and bass, I play everything but metal lmao I’ve come to realize that what I like playing and what I like listening to are usually very different. Sometimes I play heavy music, but not as much as I did around 15 years ago.
What I play/write myself is more inspired by personal things from my life.
Also, being Autistic, music is how I express myself as I dont always know how to with words. But usually I pick up my bass and play what I feel. It’s basically my form of therapy. My instruments have become an extension of me, my thoughts, and my emotions.
That intro 🤯
I love Half Diminished as well.
There was a UA-cam shred contest within the last couple years. All very good technical players, but their tone was exactly the same. Only one player had a different tone.
Another reason a lot of guitarist now sound all the same is that they are not innovating, not pushing the envelope and not searching for new harmonic ideas. It's mostly all about technique.
well the thing is the goalpost for what makes someone a good guitarist keeps getting pushed like everyday
i see someone shredding w some new techniques and it just feel like i’m falling behind like i gotta complete all this other shit before i can call myself a guitarist
There’s so much art that is amazing already it’s just easy to try and copy what you hear
@@alldud13 wait 5 or 6 years from now, it'll all go back to basics like it did with punk in the 70s and technique will become frowned upon again. Then you can make it big with 3 power chords and the lick from johnny b goode 🤣
Super stuff!
It is the same with sports. Here in Europe there were many great individual soccer players in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Today the sport has become more athletic and faster, but the players have become pure tactical monsters from the tube and you rarely see real individual class.
and most of them are a bunch of pussies diving at the slightest touch rolling around like they've been shot.... Ruined the game..... Women's football is pure football.
Great points! The masters create, their disciples are recreate.
Thanks
Seems everyone studies the same artist and learning pathways. Alan Holdsworth was the last guitar player I heard that was truly unique. To me most modern Jazz guitar players either sound like West Montgomery light or Kenny Burrell light.
Inspiring 🎉
Nice. I find myself too thinking that a “jazz” guitarist has to sound a particular way. Now its no pedals, that “jazz tone” etc.. Which is all BS of course. Sometimes someone new comes along eg: Julian Lage but even then coming from Bill Frisell “tradition”. I think of players like Brandon Ross (Harriet Tubman) who rejects the labels thing totally.
You are right, whether these are exceptions to the rule is subjective. I also consider his view that some leave academia because they’ve gleaned enough to go on and expressed themselves in more individual ways. The genre of jazz guitar just now so expensive at the same time I think he is right that many guitarist come out of school with a skill, but lack individuality.
Thank you for this! It was very enlightening. I do think about these things from time to time. I think those reason that you mention are definetley possible reasons. I would add perhaps lack of personal or individual vision? I also think that listening to other types of music can make a person sounding less similar. I am primarily a blues guitarist but I listen to classical, jazz, country, metal, pop, progressive etc and I think all of that contributes to individuality. If you let it. I just had another thought and that would be expectations from a musical genre. Expectations of hearing certain things makes for similarities between players within a genre? What do you think?
Lionel Louke sounds great he definitely has his own sound.
Back in the day, only those with natural talent would gain facility on the instrument. There was no such thing as "aNyBoDy cAn lEaRn." Also, at some point, the musical language within the instrument is set in stone.
"...and you have exact notes, exact chords..that's taking away from the music!" Barry Harris
Completely agree
El tiempo se consagra en la mente, y de vez en cuando se lleva a una pierna.
😊❤❤❤❤❤Very good
I will offer the suggestion that the reason is : they only play 1 melody line at a time. even if it is with chords thrown in.
Listen to Charlie Byrd. Listen to Bach. Listen to Pachelbel. These guys added infinite possibilities past what can be done with a single line... because using harmonic melodies instead of melodic lines on their own ( like most soloists ) ... adds VAST amounts of possibilities. When i realized this, I decided to master guitar.
Yes the equipment is different. but the BEST people ( who know how to express their unique self as well, of COURSE! ) are the ones who can weave multiple melodies together. This is just counterpoint.... sadly , there is not nearly enough of this going on.
Many guitarists now are not composers in their own right. So, their limitations are their experiences. When they get exposed to multiple melodic lines , and that the whole is greater than the sum of parts! vastly greater.
lets talk!
Oh, we could have had this same conversation in the 90s 😂
I agree most of the modern guitar players do sound the same.
Bottom line - the best 🎸 are from the 60s -70s and some 80s
Jeff Beck, Alvin Lee, Rory Gallagher, Roy Buchanan, Robin Trower, Johnny Winter, Hendrix, Frampton, Duane Allman, Troy Caldwell ( Marshall Tucker) Roy Bachman,
I agree that the biggest issue these days is that everything is self referential. People also want to play for clout, basically. To show off that they can play the "I went to music school" style. It's all very inauthentic.
Thankyou! What’s your name?
I've been listening to "jazz" guitarists forever, now I'm pretty bored with the "sound of the "jazz guitar". Personally I seek out players now who have left the older tradition of what constitutes jazz guitar sound. I think tweeking the sound of the guitar with some modern pedals and playing with a more angular approach is what interests me now.
We're in a period of history where people want honest incentives to work hard, and most all of the lanes society approves of to work hard in have dishonest incentives. This creates a cognitive dissonance in the minds of young people, and people who don't have a solid historical reference point culturally. Thus, working hard to get good the old way is less rewarding now, as the incentives are very different. Our young people will be throwing out a lot of the old ways of thinking here pretty quickly, and a new musical zeitgeist will arrive, much like rock n roll in the 40s and 50s.
You basically have said what I've been saying for the past 6-7 years, but better.
Totally agree, + with time musicianship also changes.Nowadays 'fame' is a goal, for many, while before 'social media' era, people trained for musicianship, and fame was a by product of your work, nowadays, people aim for fame, not Music! Also, popular music has never been so poor and formated !
You don't have to name names, I already know. I can listen to streaming music for a few hours and hear different guitarists and they all sound like the same one.
I believe another thing is they all use the same style of guitar and pickups! Afraid to use single coils, P90s, solid bodies, etc. Everybody sounds the same using picks through humbuckers.
Isn't it the same take emulating favorite bands or records? I mention this because our bandleader wants a layer of guitar similar to Oasis. I personally cannot stand Oasis. Their first two records sound the same to me and the songs sound similar in terms of production. Same effects used, no variant on the sound.
I told him, I do not chase tone dragons. I gave that shit up a good 22 years ago and it was freeing. I want our band to have their own sound which comprises of our backgrounds and styles, not emulating other bands down to a wall of sound or overdrive tones.
I have my own sound, my own style and benefit from playing with others whenever possible to have fun and grow. I don't want to be boxed into "you gotta sound like XYZ". Nope. Not happening.
I have to disagree with the premise. I don't think the grandmasters who are active right now sound the same at all. Just first three off the top of my head, Miles Okazaki, Jeff Parker, and Mary Halvorson - each has a totally incredible, original voice. More come to mind, Peter Bernstein, Bobby Broom, Dan Wilson, Cecil Alexander... Perhaps you mean those in the student and pro/master camps sound the same. But in that case I would suggest that since the beginning of jazz every medium or bigger city has had at least 10 cats who are good enough to be a pickup band when a grandmaster comes through town. Those journeyman players are actually some of my favourites, but their names aren't in history books because they actually do all kind of sound the same. I don't mind putting a few names out there, like Doug Raney or Rene Thomas. Those guys were fucking killer players, but they didn't ultimately have that really unique voice that gets your name in the history books. So yeah, I have to respectfully disagree, but good video keep em coming, see you again soon.
The main reason why many guitarist sound the same now, is they adore and worship others wanting to be like that just to impress people with the stuffs their favorite guitars does,
Same with the whole whole everything is about copy, UA-cam will advice you to copy or do somethihg similar to a video doinf well, this theme is running the whole world now.
I sometimes play in the streets, in Europe you can play or sing the best song ever made or play like God, they wont move or care, unless you play what they heard before, they care about doing something they heard before, repeat, copy, same, similar, they are wired to hate new things even if beautiful.
In Belgium unless you play ie copy what they alreay know they wont celebrate you, they lost their ears for knowing what is good even if its new.
Thank God africa still has their ears intact.
Africans can hear a song for the first time and they start vibing without control without shyness.
The west is almost sheeple, programmed people no longer real individual. they force people to copy.
Even the song of today are mostly plagiarism based.
They feel if it doesnt kind take from older song it cant be a hit.
People today are under a spell or mass hypnosis, the hits songs today are based on views, because a song has much views to them it must be a great song, so also decide to like it.
Not based on their judgement.
I can go on and on. Its a shame.
I am a guitar player and I dont sound like any particular guitarists
Thats why i play Flamenco and only Nylon strings....
Removed any electric guitar and quit Western(Anglo-Saxon) Music, because i am BORED TO HELL FROM IT.
Imagine thinking Flamenco isn't western music... 🤣🤣🤣
@DoctorMandible lol.... Flamenco is half Arabic, Half Gypsy,Half Spanish. Its in Pfrygian mode (which originate from Asia Minor).
By Western we all mean Anglo-Saxons.
@@goshu7009 Is Bach an Anglo-Saxon? lmao
@@sigiligus I think everybody understood my words. Amerikan and British music is what i got bored, due to poor Harmony and same melodies last 100 years. Anything else?
Well I guess you also have to see the ratio. Today, there are simply much more Guitarists around, then there where in the 60s or the first half of the 20th century. That's why, It gets more and more difficult to make a difference even at a pro Level, but then there are still a handful also of contemporary Guitarists of whom I would think that they have a very unique sound, I would go even so fsr to say, that some of them reinvented music, but are just not as famous anymore as the greats from the 60s. I'm thinking here of guys like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Jesse van Ruller or Reinier Baas from the Netherlands for instance. The old Generations of Guitarists instead where Superstars. Pat Metheny was playing in Stadiums and Wes Montgomery was concerting in famous TV Shows.
The interest and the market for Jazz in the beginning 20th Century was simply different then today. That's why you'd probably get the impression, that in todays world Guitarists sound all the same, because, yes partially also because of the growing education offering, there are now much more of them, but also because the truth is, that the era of Guitarsuperstars, where George Benson, Pat Martino, Pat Metheny or Wes Montgomery where Big Names is simply over. There where a handful of Guitarists who where really famous, but since Jazz music became more and more of an Underdog Genre, that got a little repressed nowadays, the really interesting Guitarists are not anymore as famous or visible.
Experiences..on the job..bad or good..make honest players..tricksters or everywhere..snob students seeking verifications from other students
Most people try to replicate the people they like. Rather than be original. Or create something new. If you go to school of a conservatory or Berkelee Music you become copies of a program. Which is what killed classical music. They don't allow you to move from what they approve. It is very obvious signs of this with violin. There is no voice hasn't been for years because it became academic and not musical.
The reason they all sound the same is because they learn from the same places and they learn by focusing on shortcuts or hacks. It's particularly the hacks that bred the same approach. Gear is part of it.
The blues is missing#1 You missed that. All those killer cats we love were blues players. Education 2nd 3rd is equipment and effects. Oral tradition was key. But we are also in different time. What is happening now is just as important. Social media is reality. Technology is the new thing for guys 34 and younger. So thats my truth.
"Your Truth"???
if its your truth then by definition its not truth ...just your opinion 😅😂
Fortunately you can not own the truth!
But I'm not saying you are wrong ;)
@@fallingsky1984 no its truth!! there is no objective truth...Just yours and mine:)
Ironic how the vast majority of blues players today sound both numbingly similar and outdated to boot.
It's not blues influence that people need, it's personal creativity.
Art is not a science. And until you can fathom that idea, you will never be a true artist.
Because nobody is actually playing anything any more. All we see is exercises, sweeping up and down, scales, gimmicks to get views, whatever it takes to show off on instagram or youtube.
You seem so bored when you play
Guitarists don't all sound the same. I don't know about fakes.
Agree. It sometimes sounds more like somebody working on math problems when they're playing jazz nowadays then actually playing music. There's no soul or emotion in a lot of it, rather simply an exhibition of mechanical skills. I think this comes from learning from the same academic sources these days, whereas in the past the learner would work with records, or go out and listen and interact with musicians. Who wants to listen to someone working out math problems auditorily?