My dad retired from his 30+ year career as a programmer at the age of 60, got bored, and went back to work for Robert Half Technologies as a contractor. He made a lot of money, and at one point they gave him a plaque and named employee of the month. Not only that, but when he finally quit for good, they offered him a lot more money to keep going!
That's pretty amazing. I can totally relate to being bored if I retired thing. I think that would drive me nuts. It really comes down to skills, technical and soft... If you've got 'em, you can do just about anything.
Been a bit since I’ve commented on your videos. I’m 47 and still in the process of learning to code. Can’t deny that my age and it’s factor has crossed my mind. Having said that, I do plan on becoming a freelancer. And I imagine (and hope) my futures clients wont care about my age. By the time I’m ready to make sites, I’ll probably be 50+
In the 21st century in this country - ageism, sexism, and racism are relevant and unfortunately will be with us for a long time to come. You see and experience it in just about every field there is whether its tech or not. I'm black and I remember a time in my life when going to school working two full times jobs in the summer (government intern and janitor) and in that janitorial job my boss was a straight up bigot from Alabama. Just about every day I worked there during the summer, he bemoaned me, cussed me out, threatened to fire me but he never did because I was one of the better if not best workers he had - I guess it made him feel good because he could at least in his mind put me in my place. For my part, I didn't care because I knew it was temporary and I needed the money for school so I put up with his threats and his crap until it was time to return to school. Another time now employed as an electrical engineer at a high tech company while visiting my sister in Lexington, Kentucky on a whim I decided to apply for a position at IBM (now Lexmark) where my brother-in-law worked as a manager. So, I show up (following the advice of my brother-in-law) in a suit and tie, carrying a briefcase just to submit a resume. The receptionist did not look at my resume and would not accept it telling me that they didn't have any janitorial openings. She was fired that day. The point is you can't hide certain things about yourself - your race, your gender, and at some point in your life - your age. Nor should you want to hide anything about yourself as you try to present yourself to a prospective employer or win a client's business if you are freelancing. The best way to push aside any of these factors is to stand out and show how you are different and better than anyone else that you might be competing with. And how you do that is to be prepared! Do your homework, keep current with skills that you have and always be acquiring new skills whether they be technical or non-technical and be able to demonstrate or show an employer that on day 1 you will be able to come in and perform whatever task is required of you with no or only minimal over the shoulder assistance. Eighty percent of your competition won't be prepared. Most successful companies these days first and foremost see their bottom line and that is generally green. You may run into people who have perceptions about age, sex, or color but just like the woman that prejudged me - they typically don't last. If the culture of a company is that way, and you will discover that as part of your preparation, then you probably don't want to work there or do business with them anyway.
I've got 40 years of software engineering experience - I'm up to speed on latest tech innovations and languages since I use them every day - I can't find a job. The other day I was asked for my date of birth - an illegal question - pretty much overt ageism.
I was around 33 on my first tech job. But my first job I joined a company that did have quite a few people who were 50+ To say that ageism doesn't exist is BS. Of course it does.. but as you said it isn't everywhere. Honestly any company that practices ageism.. is probably a bad place anyways.
There's a lot of wisdom in your attitude of not waiting for the world to be the way you think it should be, but rather making the most of how the world actually is. 😊 Most people (young or old) hold themselves back. With enough work and perseverance, there's always a way. 😊 To paraphrase a saying I've just heard: "no goal is too high to reach as long as you're willing to climb." Great video. Great channel. I enjoy listening to your talks: a nice combination of practical tips, common sense, and wisdom. Keep up the great work.
Managers rarely talk about ppls age in private meetings. However, it is common knowledge that in the mid 2010s ibm was secretly getting rid of those above 50 or at least targeting those above 50. Maybe managers and some groups were safe, but many were not when they were getting ready to cut. Also in a competitive job market age does come into the factor because managers and teams don’t always want to train workers that they view are from another era. Maybe they are uncomfortable. I don’t know. But age, sex, race, these things are known to play a role in hiring. It is important to act as if they do matter, so that they can be compensated for. But we have to be realistic about their importance.
i've seen ageism in a lot of places, actively. so never discount it. Also if your older and have more experience when they just need someone they can mold in their own thing
@@john.morris I saw it at Lowe's where i was a manager, after the bubble burst you would see a lot of older people coming in but it was the younger people that got the job. Never thought about it but as i think about stuff recently definitely saw that older people with good qualifications not get the job. Some of these people as back room talks had done good on the interview. In my own direct network a friend of mine called tj who worked for a remediation company got let go and my other friend with less experience but in his late 20's getting paid a lot less stayed. Experiences out of tech but the mentality is the same, who can we get cheaper but still have the same skills (minus the time) and longevity, who can we pay less if the more skilled older person is going to want more. Some things you dont need the best just someone to hack things together.
I think that age is irrelevant in this industry, what matters most is the experiences you have and the ability to transform these into value for the customer/employer
I mostly agree. And that's especially true if you freelance. But there are people who've been flat out told they weren't getting this job or that opportunity because of their age. So, I hesitate to say it's completely irrelevant. But, you're right. If you can perform, you'll eventually find a spot.
My dad retired from his 30+ year career as a programmer at the age of 60, got bored, and went back to work for Robert Half Technologies as a contractor. He made a lot of money, and at one point they gave him a plaque and named employee of the month. Not only that, but when he finally quit for good, they offered him a lot more money to keep going!
That's pretty amazing. I can totally relate to being bored if I retired thing. I think that would drive me nuts. It really comes down to skills, technical and soft... If you've got 'em, you can do just about anything.
Been a bit since I’ve commented on your videos. I’m 47 and still in the process of learning to code. Can’t deny that my age and it’s factor has crossed my mind. Having said that, I do plan on becoming a freelancer. And I imagine (and hope) my futures clients wont care about my age. By the time I’m ready to make sites, I’ll probably be 50+
They won't. Actually, your age will likely work to your advantage as a freelancer. Clients appreciate the wisdom and perceived trustworthiness.
@@john.morris the fact that you replied to the comment in a full entrance with advice is dope af. Not random emojis and “thanks for sharing” reply
Guess it's not surprising that's what people do. UA-cam has gotten weird the last few years.
In the 21st century in this country - ageism, sexism, and racism are relevant and unfortunately will be with us for a long time to come. You see and experience it in just about every field there is whether its tech or not. I'm black and I remember a time in my life when going to school working two full times jobs in the summer (government intern and janitor) and in that janitorial job my boss was a straight up bigot from Alabama. Just about every day I worked there during the summer, he bemoaned me, cussed me out, threatened to fire me but he never did because I was one of the better if not best workers he had - I guess it made him feel good because he could at least in his mind put me in my place. For my part, I didn't care because I knew it was temporary and I needed the money for school so I put up with his threats and his crap until it was time to return to school. Another time now employed as an electrical engineer at a high tech company while visiting my sister in Lexington, Kentucky on a whim I decided to apply for a position at IBM (now Lexmark) where my brother-in-law worked as a manager. So, I show up (following the advice of my brother-in-law) in a suit and tie, carrying a briefcase just to submit a resume. The receptionist did not look at my resume and would not accept it telling me that they didn't have any janitorial openings. She was fired that day.
The point is you can't hide certain things about yourself - your race, your gender, and at some point in your life - your age. Nor should you want to hide anything about yourself as you try to present yourself to a prospective employer or win a client's business if you are freelancing.
The best way to push aside any of these factors is to stand out and show how you are different and better than anyone else that you might be competing with. And how you do that is to be prepared! Do your homework, keep current with skills that you have and always be acquiring new skills whether they be technical or non-technical and be able to demonstrate or show an employer that on day 1 you will be able to come in and perform whatever task is required of you with no or only minimal over the shoulder assistance. Eighty percent of your competition won't be prepared.
Most successful companies these days first and foremost see their bottom line and that is generally green. You may run into people who have perceptions about age, sex, or color but just like the woman that prejudged me - they typically don't last. If the culture of a company is that way, and you will discover that as part of your preparation, then you probably don't want to work there or do business with them anyway.
I've got 40 years of software engineering experience - I'm up to speed on latest tech innovations and languages since I use them every day - I can't find a job. The other day I was asked for my date of birth - an illegal question - pretty much overt ageism.
I was around 33 on my first tech job. But my first job I joined a company that did have quite a few people who were 50+
To say that ageism doesn't exist is BS. Of course it does.. but as you said it isn't everywhere. Honestly any company that practices ageism.. is probably a bad place anyways.
It’s not just tech jobs it’s all skilled work!
There's a lot of wisdom in your attitude of not waiting for the world to be the way you think it should be, but rather making the most of how the world actually is. 😊
Most people (young or old) hold themselves back. With enough work and perseverance, there's always a way. 😊 To paraphrase a saying I've just heard: "no goal is too high to reach as long as you're willing to climb."
Great video. Great channel. I enjoy listening to your talks: a nice combination of practical tips, common sense, and wisdom. Keep up the great work.
Appreciate that. And yeah, if you wait on other people to change, you'll be waiting forever. 🙂
Be good at what you do, keep learning and stop worrying.
Managers rarely talk about ppls age in private meetings. However, it is common knowledge that in the mid 2010s ibm was secretly getting rid of those above 50 or at least targeting those above 50. Maybe managers and some groups were safe, but many were not when they were getting ready to cut. Also in a competitive job market age does come into the factor because managers and teams don’t always want to train workers that they view are from another era. Maybe they are uncomfortable. I don’t know. But age, sex, race, these things are known to play a role in hiring. It is important to act as if they do matter, so that they can be compensated for. But we have to be realistic about their importance.
It's insane that companies have this sort of bias.
I think as people we tend to have it. But yeah. They're missing out on good employees
Thanks for this video, John. I wish I had your gift of gab.
Lol. Thank my mother. She could go all day on the right topic.
BTW, I never found a job in tech again. I had to come in the back door through temping to just get an office job.
older programmers have been to the university of life longer
He is back again.
Yezzir!
i've seen ageism in a lot of places, actively. so never discount it. Also if your older and have more experience when they just need someone they can mold in their own thing
I'd love to hear some examples of you care to share. I've mostly freelanced so haven't experienced it like others have.
@@john.morris I saw it at Lowe's where i was a manager, after the bubble burst you would see a lot of older people coming in but it was the younger people that got the job. Never thought about it but as i think about stuff recently definitely saw that older people with good qualifications not get the job. Some of these people as back room talks had done good on the interview. In my own direct network a friend of mine called tj who worked for a remediation company got let go and my other friend with less experience but in his late 20's getting paid a lot less stayed. Experiences out of tech but the mentality is the same, who can we get cheaper but still have the same skills (minus the time) and longevity, who can we pay less if the more skilled older person is going to want more. Some things you dont need the best just someone to hack things together.
I think that age is irrelevant in this industry, what matters most is the experiences you have and the ability to transform these into value for the customer/employer
I mostly agree. And that's especially true if you freelance. But there are people who've been flat out told they weren't getting this job or that opportunity because of their age. So, I hesitate to say it's completely irrelevant. But, you're right. If you can perform, you'll eventually find a spot.
Hilarious how dirt bag Mark Z says younger is smarter. Doesn't always work that way...... Intelligent isn't based on Age.
Devs after 30??? lol that’s a dev in their prime. More like devs after 45-50.
Ageism in tech? No shit Sherlock! I was laid off in 2010 in my late 50's. Finding another job took years.
Easy there, fella
Thats why you should aim to create a "product" yourself asap and dont be just a worker. You should act more like a business owner, not a freelancer
Yep. The freelance marketplace generally doesn't care.