Vulcan Steam Locomotive Repairs: Making a New Steam Chest Valve Yoke and Rod
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Vulcan Steam Locomotive Repairs: Making a New Steam Chest Valve Yoke and Rod
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Always great to see "Old" machines creating parts for other "Old" machines, by knowledgeable "Old" machinists. 😃
Hey! Keith is in his second youth.
I was pretty sure you were going to comment " the Yoke is broke". If only for poetic purposes. No worries, grateful for the correct grammar. Marvelous series of videos.
I guess the yoke was on you? :)
I always enjoy the Vulcan repairs. I know it's inconvenient for the museum but it's an opportunity for us.
When cutting hardened chrome bar try ceramic inserts instead of carbide, appreciate that they are expensive but they’re worth it
From watching Cutting Edge Engineering, who does a good bit of chrome bar work, I think the reason why the rod was 1 &1/16" was so the threaded area could be reduced in diameter to get below the induction hardened layer. Curtis uses a ceramic insert to get through the layer & then switches back to conventional carbide.
An idea for content of another video could be how you adjust the inserts using a dial test indicator maybe with a button head or something similar
Hey Kieth. I just saw Leo Sampson take the Capstan out of its shipping crate and he he was just plain ticKled SEEING IT. Now it is getting it's new custom bed for it before sending it to paint/or powder coat. Well done dear ser.
Nice job Keith, would love to see it in action on the Vulcan.
Oh god, I can feel a rant coming.
For those of you who like to read comments before watching videos, spoiler alert is coming up in a moment.
If like me you are not interested in blueprints and diagrams, unless they are connected with the projects im working on in my own workshop, then I would suggest you fast forward to 3:56.
So, the spoiler alert is that Keith, while attempting to mill the Yoke in a vertical position, is concerned over juddering, which does happen and is perfectly natural. However, it sounds as though at least one cutting blade is misaligned, as Keith later poins out, which happened again on his other machine when he swapped over.
If it were me, then instead of changing over to another machine, I would have first, checked the alignment then adjusted it then changed the speed and feed ratios first, but Keith didn't bother with any of that. Why not?
That would have been the most logical course of action. Also, instead of backtracking to the beginning, thus wasting time, why not cut on the return? I do it all the time, but then my tools are always set up corectly, in perfect working order and my cutting choice of tool is sharp!
Two machines, two different cutting heads, both not aligned correctly in the same video on the same day! What are the chances if that, what is going on? It seems to be a regular theme where Keith is concerned, I'm afraid.
This channel reminds me of my early metalwork classes in school 50+ years ago between the ages of 11 and 16. Many students using all of the machines and no satisfactory maintenance being carried out would lead to issues, and rightly so.
Accidents are always on the horizon, just waiting to happen. That's what this channel reminds me of. A time in the 1970s when health and safety did not exist. A time when making love was more important than anything else.😂
It is as though in every video, there is something going wrong. Things that in a professional setup, i.e., an engineering workshop full of qualified experienced enginers with lathes and mills going 10 to the dozen for 8 solid hours, these type of issues would only happen once in a blue moon.
My metalwork teacher also took us for physics classes, double ones at that. I don't ever remember him making mistakes or there being equipment not set up corectly as often as there is on Keith's channel and he was not a full time engineer like Keith but a physicist who loved enginering.
When I was 16, I, like other boys and girls from different classes that were interested in engineering, changed to a class where our teacher was a fully qualified engineer. Even then, with a workshop containing 24 students on rotation 4x a day. That's 96 students a day, 5 days a week. I had two double classes every week. I don't remember having that amount of cockups and defective tools compared to this channel.
Perhaps it's your age, Keith. My advice is to check your equipment, machines, and tools prior to starting your video. Do what the TV chefs and cooks do. They get everything ready first, prior to recording a show or going live. They have their ingredients measured out in little bowls and any tools needed laid out like soldiers in a row.
How often do we see you go off to get a tool in the middle of recording. How often do we see you make a mistake when setting up a project on a mill or lathe saying, "I'll bring you back once I've done this or I've done that", for example? How many times, Keith? Test runs, dry runs, or dummy runs, call them what you like, but do them.
I've told you all this before. Get everything you need and have it at arms length. Do a dry run first. Once you're happy with where you are going, then start your video. It's good to show us your mistakes, of course it is, but why are there so many of them? It doesn't look good or professional, Keith.
The reason why Keith struggled to cut the thread on the chrome rod is very simple. He failed to remove most if not all of the hardened thickness first.
Even on my phone screen, I could see around 3 or 4mm needed to be removed. An experienced engineer would have done that, and if after removing the hardened thickness of say 4mm, would have meant leaving insufficient material to thread, then a thicker rod should have been ordered.
Also, some cutting lubricant wouldn't have gone a miss neither, but not that green anchorlube 5hit or whatever it's called. I got given a small bottle last year by an American UA-camr who subscribes to my channel.
I found that it was good for tapping but drilling or cutting threads, forget it. I was not impressed at all. WD40 does a better job and a 1/3 of the price, too! Just listen to the sound. That's the sound of pain that cutting tip was experiencing. I had to mute my sound. It hurt my ears so much. Poor tool.
The man who never made mistake never did anything. You can be an armchair machinist all day long and you will never learn from your mistakes because you don't actually do it. One example that shows just how much you don't know is that he got the size shaft that he needed to have a hard surface where it was going through a packing. If he got a bigger size, he would have to remove the chrome plating to make it fit and that would have defeated the purpose of getting a chrome plated shaft. Get out of your armchair and get some experience before you criticize a real worker's decisions.
Keith, if you look at the temperature/strength curve for Loctite 290, it is down to less than 70% strength at 150'C so there won't be much strength and holding power left with your superheated steam working temperature.
Slidevalve -> no superheated steam. But even saturated steam at working pressure will be close to 150 C
My ears pricked up at the use of a thread locker on such a part, even if within working range the cyclic nature of the load might be thought a concern.
Also wondered about this. With both ends threaded/bolted and no mechanism to keep the rod from twisting I'd think this would be a concern... Would a pin be a better answer? Software engineer here, just trying to learn 😁
100 psi gage is steam at 337 degF. I think I'd put a setscrew on the side of the yoke "just in case"
3/4" mod seems on the weedy side. I think I'd have gone for 7/8", to increase the annular meat, but retain more of the rod strength, plus some sort of locking tab.
I am surprised that you actually said "Wilkes-barre" right, I don't think I have ever heard a non-native of the area pronounce it correctly. Good job boss man. The steam town mall and local area has an immense amount of rail nostalgia. Don't forget about Jim Thorpe, Horseshoe curve in Altoona, or New Hope.
That was pretty tough steel to cut threads on.
Regarding the loctite, not sure thats the right choice considering the high temperature environment.
Probably not going to be a big issue if its tight but its something to keep in mind.
I had the same thought about the loctite..
Hi my friend. Love to watch steam engines. In any form. Great to see the craftsmanship off the day still running. You adding to there longevity is great to see well done job well done .👏👏👏👏👏👏👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I would think in the hot environment of a steam chest that the Loctite would fail.
That rod was quite hard. The lathe and workpiece sure put up a struggle.
I have wonderful memotys of My Grandndad taking me on weekends to serviceing on the the locys and on steam tractors wh him. Summers were great and That led me to mechanical tradesd with welding. Retired now I really miss those carefry days.
“Oh no!
The yoke broke!”
“Call in Keith”
New yoke, new rod
All together
“Just like that
We are ready
to send this on.”
“That’s going to be a wrap guys!”
“With that, we are going to sign off.”
Love your work Keith. Engineering and videography poetry.
Thank you for sharing.👍
Can’t believe no-one has said it yet - the yoke is broke!
As soon as he said the Yoke is Broken, I was thinking he missed a trick, by not saying the Yoke is Broke 😂
Thanks Keith 👍
Beautiful work Keith. Craftsman and master machinists such as yourself are great assets that help maintain and repair heritage equipment such as that steam locomotive. Thanks for sharing!
Snippets from this episode would make a good commercial for a safety glasses manufacturer!
I was getting ready to ask why not the horizontal, but you beat me to it. Perfect machine for that job. Could have even done the drilling in the same setup. Maybe a high temp locktite around steam, though.
Might be nice to have a CBN tool or two for those occasions when you need to turn HARD things like that chrome plated linear rail.
it is always a learning experience while watching these videos, Thank you, Keith. Like many others, I am now wondering if we might see this part installed on the locomotive?
Nice! Beautiful. 👌Some chrome bar is induction case hardened. Maybe that was going on here? Kurtis at CEE uses ceramic inserts just for that layer.
Always good to see work on the Vulcan locomotive, I'm sure that another 100 years is well within it's sights, but talking of steam and now the Tally-ho capstan is completed, is the stoker engine going to return to being worked on?
Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer!
Nice upgrade I believe.
My very first video here was you working on locomotive stuff. It's been three or four years now 😊😊
2:45 what i wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall when that part was originally turned. It looks deceptively easy, but i can see it be very difficult to do without a big lathe and a lot of patience.
Each time I see somebody cutting threads the usual / standard / the way the teacher told it to do…… i’m thinking…… Joe Pie(czynski)
A fabulous video, 👋
Great idea on the 3/4 thread instead of 1” bore!👍👍👍
You really are
“The Doctor of Machining”
Thank You for sharing your wonderful life with us. Great Job!
Happy Friday Georgia!⚙️🛠🥜👍👍👍👍✌️
well done keith
Once again entertaining and instructional at the same time. Excellent! thank you.
I hope the museum archives your video showing how you made the new yoke. It may save a future machinist some time. But part of the fun is figuring things out.
Great to see that older equipment is being maintained and run . I do have one concern you may not have considered. Making the rod with the 3/4-16 end is a great idea but looking at the wear on that old rod it is pushing and pulling offset somehow as evidence by the marking on the chrome. So my thought was that bored hole in the steel and pinned had a better chance of longevity than a threaded one.The harder rod wearing into the steel hole. The rod being threaded and more rigid at both ends might now put undue stress on rod and box frame that will fail much sooner than if it were turned and pinned at say 7/8 diameter. Just my thoughts, what do you think?
Excellent repair. Thank you for sharing..🙂🙂
top work, as ever Keith
Very snide comment coming - Wow they make Loctite that can withstand the temperature and pressure of steam? Impressive!
Nice job Keith.
Nice work again Keith 👍
Won't the heat from the steam defeat the lock tight?
Hello Keith. I always enjoy your videos And you are a great teacher ive leaned alot from you over the years That part turned out awesome. See ya next time Larry
This material is not only chrome-plated but it is hardened several millimetres deep. So you were cutting coarse thread in hardened steel, no wonder it fought and the cutter was whining. Kurtis from CEE Australia uses ceramics to lathe this hardened layer off his hydraulic rods.
Really interesting to see that horizontal mill cutting .050” so smoothly, especially at the higher speed.
Thanks again for the production videos.
Too bad you couldn’t of got the steel plate water jet it out. It would’ve been within .005”. It would’ve saved all the mailing. And without a heat affected zone.
Another interesting project🎉
Is that loctite suitable for higher heat applications
Keith, I am concerned about the Loctite 290 Threadlocker. It is rated for -55.0 - 150.0 °C (-65.0 - 300.0 °F ) Your steam is all ready at 300.0 °F at just 50psi. With 100psi steam you will NOT have thread locker at 337.9 °F !!! I think you may need another method of keeping the rod locked and not allowing it to unthread from the valve slider.
Oddly, ordinary Permatex high temperature red threadlocker is good to 450°F. There are also a variety of ceramic type threadlockers good for 1000°F to 2000°F but they do not at all stand up to water.
Sounds like you looked that up. Good point.
Keeps some Ceramic inserts on hand for that induction layer for future projects.
Very nice work Keith ! That train is very lucky to hace a team that takes such good care of it!
enjoy the Vulcan repairs👍👍👍👍
I looked at the first setup in the vertical mill and immediately thought "you've got a horizontal mill, set the yoke on the bed of that, it'll be much sturdier." Fortunately you had the same idea.
Great work and you have anticipated my comment - there's two of these on a loco and it would be prudent to replace the other side as well as you have mentioned at the end. Well done.
Good morning Keith. Thanks for the videos.
Sweet. You the man, Engineer Keith! 😊
Great job Keith
Thank you again
looks great Kieth
You have all the cool toys. 😊
I haven't yet viewed this video Keith, but it reminded me of the steam stoker engine series that I found super enjoyable. I haven't heard you speek of it for a while. Could you please provide us with an update - maybe on a future video. Your channel is great - very instructional. Please keep the videos coming. Tnx.
Wow preventive maintenance . Good job on doing your best for the next person.
thank you Keith
For chrome, I've heard that ceramic inserts work best, but I doubt they make them for threading. With the 1-1/16" dia. rod, you could probably have turned the chrome layer off the rod and had an easier time. I'm not a machinist, but from watching Curtis at CCE from Australia, that sounds like a good way to go.
Very satisfying to watch this project beginning to end. 😀
If memory serves you had about 11K subs before the Tally Ho project! Amazing work you do and you deserve more recognition!
Nice repair Keith, that one should last a while.
ATB....
Nice, good job
a lot of the chrome plated rod is also induction hargehed before plating.
Keith I’ve always found when working with Thompson shaft the first cut should be completely thru the chrome plate if possible.
Like when machining hardened ball screws or even linear rail.....Anneal the end first.....then machine....Or just use cylinder rod,which is just chromed 1045, and not hardened....
Did y’all give up on the steam stoker project?
Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer!
Nice!
I think it is great when you can do work on that steam locomotive! At the rate you are going you will replace every moving part in the loco! TM retired but likes narrow gauge
That reminds me of when my nephew was learning to play the clarinet.
There is a chance my great grandfather laced hands on that piece, he was a machinist for vulcan in that time frame
If that part just cracked after about 100 years, I assume the warranty has run out?
I believe that the Vulcan Iron Works closed shop in the 1950s without a successor. So warranty claims could be rather iffy.
When somebody drilled out the square ring to use a replaceable rod, they introduced a weak spot and voided the lifetime warranty. Sorry.
I’m sure the “Extended Warrantee” people would be happy to sell you a warranty on that part for about $2000. per year.
So in the UK, you’d be the broke yoke repair bloke.😊
Hi Keith ... as always a great video, informative and interesting to learn a little about how things work. Speaking of how things work, or not, what's been happening with your Monarch 10EE lathes. They are very interesting projects; did I miss something, are they still in the works? Again, as always, great video!
When that happened to me with one or more inserts been high, I used my indicator to find the high one. I milled hundreds of parts a day using a straddle mill.
Looks good nice job :o)
Would have loved to see the onsite installation!
Put a mesh across the box and you have a horse fly swatter.
Nice 👍👍👍😎😎😎
Hi Keith, nice job, the copy of the blueprints you had look like they are a bit worse for wear, if you use something like photoshop you should be able to clean them up a bit, it’s time consuming but worth it to have a decent blueprint to work from in my opinion, if you want I would be more then willing to have a go at them for you. 😊
And there I was thinking “finally, a job for a shaper” and Keith uses mills 😂
As a non-machinist I know very little about the materials but would induction-hardened rods last longer than the Chrome? Chrome always seems to come of, not matter how well the plating is done :)
Theads might rust and freeze. I'm sure you will, but I would document the grade of steel it was for another someday or to pick a better steel if an early failure.
A broke yoke!
Instead of saying "sign off", I think "we have come to the end of this episode" would be much better. Ron W4BIN
Instead of chrome plated, what about using Chromoly steel ? It is stronger than standard stainless steel, and has a high strength-to-weight ratio.
Any chance that material was actually "induction-hardened" crome-bar? The crome layer should only be 10 thou or so thick and shouldn't be giving you that much trouble.
Maybe if it was only “pinned” and not welded, the pin would shear off and the yoke wouldn’t fail..
Always a treat to watch you work. Question: How do you know which Loc-Tite to use? Is there a scale of strength for the numbers?
An 1 1/8" chrome bar would have allowed you to turn of most of the hard outer layer!
🙌
Not sure the Loctite will do any good considering the heat of the steam. Also, I'd have put a radius on the end with the 3/4 inch thread. Might be a fracture point.
Please list the steel grade for the yoke.
Thanks, Keith dave
Hail the algorithm! 😊
#TallyHo!
Great video...a bit surprised after all that, lets use the Loctite???!!! Why not recess the inner side an eighth, and use a nut to lock it in??? seems to me way more future proof than Loctite!