If you want to help fight sotn speedrun misinformation you can watch this video that helps explain a lot of cool new speedrun stuff for the game: ua-cam.com/video/WzvO2fYCYx4/v-deo.html
I saw the argument against shield dashing and my mind went straight to a comparison with Arm Pumping in Super Metroid. These small optimisation strats can look very challenging for a beginner (I honestly don't think I could do Arm Pumping to any useful level, for example), but as you've said, they're not the only thing that makes the speedrun, just a small part of it and as you learn the game, you'll get better at those small optimisations. I know there's various bits of beginner speedrun content out there and I think a lot of people need to see that stuff so that people can see what learning a speedgame is actually like, rather than only seeing the end result of hundreds/thousands of hours of practise.
As someone who loves this series but isn't a speedrunner I much prefer shield dashing in SotN over things like backdash jump cancelling in Aria, DSvania and RotN. Not only is it way easier on the eyes when watching speedruns without the constant flipping of directions, it's also pretty easy to use casually (compared to the latter) which is pretty nice considering the slow walking speed in these games.
It's funny because when I was a kid, spamming the dash button was one of my favourite things to do, both with Alucard and Richter. Once you learn to do it at a good pace, which is not hard at all even for a casual player, it's so cool. Just look at them go brr!
@@xavierserrat7797 good richter movement is insane to watch, though I definitely prefer the fluidity of Alucard with full movement options. MistBat to reset momentum for changing wingsmash direction, Bat Drifting, all that good stuff.
Its crazy that came from bawk. He speedruns resident evil. Ive been playing sotn for 25 years and still cant even do a richter skip. His argument is coming from ignorance
Bawkba REALLY needs to understand this message you're giving him. You're being extremely knowledgeable and professional, and he'd be a pogchamp for recognizing this.
Dr4gonBlitz and Bawkbasoup?! Two runners I love? The colab no one saw coming! Lol I love both of your guys' content but I understand the point you are making here.
idk when people mess up on stream it is commonplace to vent a bit, im sure that runner knew they were overgeneralizing but just had to air the dirty laundry before they picked themselves back up to run again
I recently began reading a manga about a speedrunner getting isekai'd into his game of choice. It's hilarious! There are glitches, NPC skips, bossfight skips, input cancelling and all that nice stuff. It's just so sweet! I'm glad speedrunning is getting more and more notoriety. The name is "RTA Sousha wa Game Sekai kara Kaerenai" / "Speedrunner cannot return from the game world". As a kid I used to hate speedruns because I thought using glitches was just straight up morally wrong, but there is so much fun and effort in it. Speedrunners really shine at expressing the love and passion they have for their game of choice.
I never watch speedruns, but your channel popped up on my recommended feeds and I've binged a ton of content. Great stuff man! SOTN is in my top 3 favorite games ever, and I've learned a ton watching your runs even though I don't speed run them myself.
The same thing he said about backdashing in SOTN, could be said about backflips in Rondo, rolling in DKC, armpumping in SM, Slidecancels in Crash Bandicoot, and a ton of other speedruns, and it'd be wrong every time. Thats not a 'hot take', thats a bad take, and a bad look for a fellow speedrunner.
I love Bawk, and I get his point, but like Dr4gon said, comparing the shield/back dashing is the same as SM arm pumping. I think this all comes down to the type of games you like to play/speedrun... Bawk does RE stuff, Dr4gon does SotN, and I personally like playing Zelda: ALTTP randos. All are great in their own unique way.
I get that they aren’t super familiar. I have been watching your channel a while and tried sole of the techniques. I can understand him not finding it fun to move backwards, or to wingsmash. But yeah, thats more personal preference then saying that its not good for speedrunning.
I was arrogant enought to think i could try a speed run (wolf presset) and failed with all the lettters and i have nothing but my outmost respec for Dr4agonblitzDaily and all the other great speedrunners who enjoy this game and share their runs with us. All the best for you and everyone here. (sorry for the crappy english, it isn't my first language).
I've been a Castlevania fan and player since I was in 7th grade, but it was you who inspired me to try a Castlevania SOTN Speedrun. I finished in 2 hours and 15 minutes, doing only death skip. I could've gotten a better time, but I was picking up a lot of items I didn't need. Force of habit. But I had magnificent fun, and backdashing helped out so much. Castlevania games are about mobility and exploration. The fact that Juste Belmont can literally dash all over the castle in Harmony of Dissonance is what makes that game so fun and immersive. Not to mention it's great for dodging, they pumped up the difficulty for Order of Ecclesia and backdashing became a tremendously useful tool. A Castlevania player hating backdashing is like a carpenter hating his workshop.
Lol. This came to my mind with this topic. Meanwhile Legend of Zelda: ocarina of time speedruns... "Hyuhhh! Hyahh! Hyuhh! hyuh! hahhhh!!!! X1,000,000+..." #RollingToVictory
Also worth mentioning that even if you miss optimal backdashes, you're still gated behind time locked clock room, so you're not really "wasting" time with suboptimal backdashes before that point.
That person = Perfect example of trying to sound smart in something you know twat about. Solution? Don't do it. And if you want to do it? Do your research first.
I myself don't like (to watch, me, just myself) glitches in speedruns. At least for me the joy of a speedrun comes from see someone use the same stuff I had to use to past as fast as possible through a part of the game that I also passed on my vanilla gameplay. Glitches just looks like everything crashed and then, suddenly, the speedrunner is teleported to a more advanced part of the game, I feel nothing watching this. Said this... SoTN is one of the most exciting speedruns to watch. The INSANE skill level you have to be to manage the bat, mist and Alucard transformations to move as quickly as possible through all areas (and more so thought the loading area). I myself used all of those transformations on my vanilla playthoughts and seeing someone manage them to do stuff with them I can understand but never ahieve is mind blowing. the precision in using spells, shield dashing and doing everything else. Gravity boots, bat dashing, wolf dashing through an area filled with grounded and winged enemies, using the broken game weapons to break the bosses as quickly as humanly possible, memorizing and mastering the entire castle layoult and enemy placement, deciding and managing the areas you have to visit as quickly as possible to not do a lot of backtracking (well, this is randomizer)... This guy watched a single minute of the beggining of a speedrun and called it a day.
I want to know what a tool assisted run with perfect rng and perfect glitch execution looks like. I wanna know what the least amount of time it can be completed with best case scenario.
It just genuinely feels like Bawk doesn't understand the speedrun itself. I won't speedrun the game because I have fingers like sausages, but I love watching and respect the run because it's really fun to watch. I may use some of the tricks I can do in my casual runs. For a speedrunner, Bawkbasoup is looking at the speedrun all wrong, and misrepresenting something that he probably didn't try to understand. You know. General internet stuff.
Generalisations based on limited wrong information from watching one UA-cam vid (at most) is not a good look. Now if you want to know the real problem with SotN speed running, it's that all the items start in random locations, how on earth is anyone supposed to optimise a route, it's just luck.
The Castlevania if not the most beautiful , is one of the most beautiful speedruns that exists . Just one example , the fact that has so many glitches which it's so cool , but was not configured was not intended by the developers , it's so magical . Those death skips man ! It's so obviously cool ! I guess that guy is trolling and don't know and or watched Castlevania symphony of the night speedruns . ✌🏾
This game isn't in Bawk's wheelhouse, and his misunderstanding is kind of sad to hear. He's a real good dude, and his speedruns are crazy for the games he plays. I hope he doesn't get up in arms about your video, because this is absolutely a professional and informative way to explain things.
I 100% started speed running this game because you made it interesting and made a great game more fun for me. I think knowledge about the game helps define a persons experience with other aspects of the it. If its his first time playing, he might not have the full scope of it.
I’ve tried some of the glitches and strategies he uses and made them part of my casual for fun play throughs. I don’t have the patience for speed running lol.
this guy is trying to make back dash cancelling sound harder than it is. i watched you do it for like a few seconds and then i figured it out for myself. im not a speed runner and i picked the game up a few weeks ago just out of curiosity
Bawkbasoup is a VERY skilled Resident Evil speedrunner. But someone needs to tell him, comparing frame perfect back/shield dashing, is the equivalent to frame perfect door skips in classic RE games, or getting bitten by a zombie, or messing up a perfect line, and losing time. It happens to the best of them.
He knows, the beginning of the VOD has his chat asking him why he doesn't speed run SOTN and other similar games. He was just saying why it isn't fun to him, not that the speedrun itself is bad (he even talks about it later thay he was just generalizing). He's very chill and likes to joke a lot and almost never rages. He's one of my favorite streamers, lol
For all the people complaining that shield-dashing stops them from speedrunning SotN, I say then don't shield-dash. You can always star just casually speedrunning the game in a way you enjoy, making your own milestones and breaking your own records. That way you will train all the routes and movement techs (besides SD), and there might be a moment when you might wanna incorporate SD to your skills, which will come naturally as you improve in the game. And even if you don't want to, you can always enjoy speedrunning it at your own place. You don't need to compete for WR to enjoy speedrunning.
I get that you're trying to be encouraging, but this is terrible advice. It's much simpler than that, shield dash at a comfortable rate whatever that is. Not shield dashing at all and learning an entire category is a ridiculous notion.
its really funny to me that i hate the Sekiro speed run air-swimming trick. Sekiro top 5 games of all time though :D CV movement is fun to me though well said. agree 100%
I can understand an issue some people can have with shielddashing if it comes from "mashing buttons brings me physical pain" perspective, but it being "lame" sounds weird.
I can understand when the normies come with the dumb ass takes, but it's weird when speedrunners do it. Like are you really swimming in viewership and interest so much that you haven't had to explain why your game has interesting mechanics? For all but like 3 games I highly doubt that.
People gotta stop trying to force out a reason for why they don't like stuff if they don't have anything material to say, especially in something as low stakes as a video game. Like if he just said "i don't like speedrunning SOTN", we wouldn't be here because yeah who cares.
To be honest, I personally agree that back dashing/shield dashing kinda SUCKS being the most basic and fundamental movement technique for a speedrun. Visually, it's a move that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, and to perform it, you gotta keep constantly mashing two buttons, potentially ruining your controller in a long term, or even worse, injurying your hand. This could be easily(?) solved/prevented just by adding a much, MUCH better looking and stupidly simple movement, called RUN. Yeah, run (or maybe it should be called sprint, since his regular animation is him already kind of running), just like Richter does, simply double-tap-and-hold forward, and Alucard moves more consistently and ever so slightly faster than the fastest shield dashing physically possible (like maybe 4 or 5 pixels/frame?). It would be much more visually appealing, as it could have a beautifully worked and "organic" animation - just like his regular walking/jogging animation is - and much easier on the player's hand and controller. And on top of that, if running is faster than shield dashing, then what's the point in doing the latter? I know, I get it that the shield dashing is an exploit of an overlooked feature, and the developers never intended the back dash to be used as the main method of movement, but come on, what would it cost them to add a simple sprinting animation? Or even make the already gorgeous jogging animation be the run/sprint, and make a walking animation for the regular walk.
This take is probably be based on some outdated information. There have been a number of significant optimizations over just this past year alone. The community has been pushing down times in nearly every SotN category by putting the in the time, improving the overall quality of movement, questioning old strats and finding new ones. You've pointed out many times in the past, shield dashing is actually a relatively minor part of the run. Once you have Soul of Bat, it becomes more about optimal Wing Smashing (a more technical/input heavy mechanic) and contributes to more significant time saves over the course of the run.
Yeah, but SOTN speedruns have never been about dashing fast. Even back in the early days speedrunners were pulling some crazy and unholy (in Iga's eyes) skips. Currently new great stuff is discovered involving movement, but that's mainly because of the randomizer.
tbh i kindof agree with the guy, i love castlevania and watch some speedruns because they can be interesting but ive always found some certain games really boring to watch and sotn is one of them
Im gonna be completely honest, as much as I’d like to speedrun SOTN would be the backdash reason but only because my thumb would fucking fall off lmao. I will always love the speedrun otherwise. Just to elaborate I’m only saying this because it’s like that until power of wolf or wing dash. I might learn the other stuff sometime lol.
You could always speedrun the game without shield-dashing, just set your own milestones and records to break for yourself. Hey, it's even possible that after doing it for some time you might feel motivated to find ways to incorporate shield-dashing to your playstyle, but at your own pace. And if not, there's still so many movement techs and skills to train to improve your times. You don't need to compete for WR to enjoy speedrunning.
@@andresv.9365 that is very true, plus if I wanted to I can always just focus on other stuff and not even going to reverse castle for a speedrun too. That’s what’s awesome about this game and the other metroidvania games, you can do so much different speed runs in different ways. That’s why the castlevania games are one of my favourite speedruns.
It's an issue of this weird mentality that if you're not perfect, you're a complete failure. Part of the fun (for most people) is getting better at whatever it is you're doing. It's the joy of improving, and this particular person doesn't really get that. And all of that is on top of what you already said; preconceived notions based on very base level understanding.
Maybe it's just a matter of opinion. I dont know whats going on and I only saw a guy expressing his opinion of him. As a player of Sotn since its release, I love this game, it contributed a lot to create the "gamer" I became, but backdash is disgusting as a speed mechanic and backdash cancel is even worst. It is ugly, annoying and makes a terrible sound. In early 2000, when I was playing speedrun and thought I was incredible for doing 200.6% in a little over two hours, I already thought the backdash was bad, but I used it because it was necessary. Everything got worse when I found out about the backdash cancel, to the point that I'm used to it today. I think it's ugly but it doesn't bother me anymore. This game is incredible and always will be, and there will always be people who won't like it for a variety of reasons and that's okay. No arguments are needed to defend a cause that was won almost 30 years ago.
Lmao, I watch both these guys and while they're both awesome at their own games I find that I don't think Iike either 😂 skills aside the way both sometimes talk to their chat just makes me watch them less and less.
I'm sure Bawk could rip apart any opinion you have of Resident Evil speed runs the same way you're able to rip this apart. Yeah, he doesn't get it. It's also not his game.
@Dr4gonblitz dude you're tripping, you both were at GDQ, it's Bawkbasoup who speedruns a lot of Resident Evil games and then some. Trying SOTN was probably kinda like a new ground for him, so cut him some slack
6:40 I think what bakwbasoup is saying is he doesn't like that speedrunning sotn requires you to do that movement tech to go fast. Same as re2 remake speedruns where you need to tap aim to climb stairs faster. IMO just like dashing is fun in sotn, aiming in re2 is fun while stair skating is not.
I love Bwakasoup and he is wrong here. Just a bad take and I hope it doens't close SotN chanel of interest for other possible randomizer fans. Castlevania speed does not sucks az, it is a success!! Bwaka love u but take care with what you say.
Hey chat / commenters, you guys are worse than the topic of this video. Please don't assume that you know what you're talking about because you've watched DB.
To be honest... There's enough backdashing per run to make me a little sick of it but i dont actually care, especialy once wolf movement is involved. *That* never gets old Honestly, show him a Lycanthrope randomizer
Indeed there's some things in there, just by looking at how the fleaman does the dancy dance and the difference between the playstyles and how both can defeat them is huge. I dont play sotn right now, the matter of why isnt important, maybe one day i will speedrun it, i like how db does it, its fast error lacking, obviously he wont be able to do the perfect dash-shield cancel, but he just dances through the place and finishes in nothing. I also enjoy other videos, the randos, etc. but that aint the point. As a really casual player, in my pov obviously, im not that player. The game is still "new" for me, the last time i played it was years ago, more than 10 maybe and i enjoyed every aspect of it, each animation is beautifully placed and done, reason why i still feel the game being "new". Not saying that not taking your time is bad, i prefer a 100% thanks to my age and what i do, to watch db than 5 hours or 6 of the same game with said guy that i dont even know who he is.
Well, Bawk did say that his comment is a "hot take", so, not meant to be taken seriously/as fact. He held several WR in games/series like RE, SH, TR and some others and knows that a speedrun is more complex than what you see on surface level (the guy runs RE3, for example), but, like you said, that was a small comment during a 5 hour long stream...
Huh. I've never taken the phrase 'hot take' to mean 'this is not serious' or 'this is false.' As far as I've seen, it's used to mean something more like 'this is my unpopular opinion' or 'what I'm about to say may be controversial but I feel it needs to be said.' Almost the opposite meaning, really. But then, no one ever explains the meaning of a word when they use it and people pick up new words without checking that they know the intended meaning all the time, so I don't doubt that certain folks may use it. Especially because any word that means 'this statement is sincere/insincere' will be used to mean its exact opposite, soo... eh.
Idk, man. I'd watch 1000 SoTN runs before i watch a single Metroid run. But that's just me because i really really dislike the Metroid games. For each their own, i suppose.
Usual ignorant person not knowing what they’re talking about. The internet is full of them. Also the movement options in SotN are on par with SM. That’s why they’re two of the best speedruns ever. This person acts like SM doesn’t have those crazy optimizations exactly like SotN.
This is a " HOT " take. If you watched his RE2 remake speed run he does a similiar dash strafing as well. Which is similiar to the back dash. If you understand. He meant his take seriously. But for it to also be taken as a bit of a joke.
Saying shield dashing is all it takes to speed run sotn is like saying knowing how to wave dash is the only thing you need to know to be a top 5 melee player
If you want to help fight sotn speedrun misinformation you can watch this video that helps explain a lot of cool new speedrun stuff for the game: ua-cam.com/video/WzvO2fYCYx4/v-deo.html
Ironically, bawk speedran / runs Resident Evil games in which you have a hundred door skips that, optimally, need to be done frame perfect.
I saw the argument against shield dashing and my mind went straight to a comparison with Arm Pumping in Super Metroid. These small optimisation strats can look very challenging for a beginner (I honestly don't think I could do Arm Pumping to any useful level, for example), but as you've said, they're not the only thing that makes the speedrun, just a small part of it and as you learn the game, you'll get better at those small optimisations.
I know there's various bits of beginner speedrun content out there and I think a lot of people need to see that stuff so that people can see what learning a speedgame is actually like, rather than only seeing the end result of hundreds/thousands of hours of practise.
honestly shield dashing is drastically easier to arm pumping to me considering how much more mashing arm pumping needs in comparison
I live in a timeline where a Sont speedrunner is beefing with a Re speedrunner..
As someone who loves this series but isn't a speedrunner I much prefer shield dashing in SotN over things like backdash jump cancelling in Aria, DSvania and RotN. Not only is it way easier on the eyes when watching speedruns without the constant flipping of directions, it's also pretty easy to use casually (compared to the latter) which is pretty nice considering the slow walking speed in these games.
With how much I fuck up before getting Bat, it sure feels like the run is only backdashing 😭
Too real
It's funny because when I was a kid, spamming the dash button was one of my favourite things to do, both with Alucard and Richter. Once you learn to do it at a good pace, which is not hard at all even for a casual player, it's so cool. Just look at them go brr!
i dont recall a backdash with richter...
@@juanpablofajardoramirez1008maybe the blade dash is what he’s thinking of
@@juanpablofajardoramirez1008probably means his blade dash, not a backdash but it is a dash.
Yep, that one. I like Richter's movement a lot, in general.
@@xavierserrat7797 good richter movement is insane to watch, though I definitely prefer the fluidity of Alucard with full movement options. MistBat to reset momentum for changing wingsmash direction, Bat Drifting, all that good stuff.
Starting Drama? wow this guy is a big mean bully and needs to be stopped
and a cheater and a thief cause he stole... my heart
Its crazy that came from bawk. He speedruns resident evil. Ive been playing sotn for 25 years and still cant even do a richter skip. His argument is coming from ignorance
Bawkba REALLY needs to understand this message you're giving him. You're being extremely knowledgeable and professional, and he'd be a pogchamp for recognizing this.
I’m the type who would not have a shred of fun speedrunning yet I find it very interesting to watch. Basically the opposite of golf.
That thumbnail is BOLD
Dr4gonBlitz and Bawkbasoup?! Two runners I love? The colab no one saw coming!
Lol I love both of your guys' content but I understand the point you are making here.
idk when people mess up on stream it is commonplace to vent a bit, im sure that runner knew they were overgeneralizing but just had to air the dirty laundry before they picked themselves back up to run again
I recently began reading a manga about a speedrunner getting isekai'd into his game of choice. It's hilarious! There are glitches, NPC skips, bossfight skips, input cancelling and all that nice stuff. It's just so sweet! I'm glad speedrunning is getting more and more notoriety.
The name is "RTA Sousha wa Game Sekai kara Kaerenai" / "Speedrunner cannot return from the game world".
As a kid I used to hate speedruns because I thought using glitches was just straight up morally wrong, but there is so much fun and effort in it. Speedrunners really shine at expressing the love and passion they have for their game of choice.
Lmao I should start speedrunning Touhou games
I never watch speedruns, but your channel popped up on my recommended feeds and I've binged a ton of content. Great stuff man! SOTN is in my top 3 favorite games ever, and I've learned a ton watching your runs even though I don't speed run them myself.
Haha I was literally just telling someone that SotN is one of my top 3 games of all time. What are your other two?
The same thing he said about backdashing in SOTN, could be said about backflips in Rondo, rolling in DKC, armpumping in SM, Slidecancels in Crash Bandicoot, and a ton of other speedruns, and it'd be wrong every time. Thats not a 'hot take', thats a bad take, and a bad look for a fellow speedrunner.
I love Bawk, and I get his point, but like Dr4gon said, comparing the shield/back dashing is the same as SM arm pumping. I think this all comes down to the type of games you like to play/speedrun... Bawk does RE stuff, Dr4gon does SotN, and I personally like playing Zelda: ALTTP randos. All are great in their own unique way.
My first thought was “how is backdash canceling in SotN any different than stair skating in RE?” Very weird take from Bawk…
I get that they aren’t super familiar. I have been watching your channel a while and tried sole of the techniques. I can understand him not finding it fun to move backwards, or to wingsmash. But yeah, thats more personal preference then saying that its not good for speedrunning.
I was arrogant enought to think i could try a speed run (wolf presset) and failed with all the lettters and i have nothing but my outmost respec for Dr4agonblitzDaily and all the other great speedrunners who enjoy this game and share their runs with us. All the best for you and everyone here.
(sorry for the crappy english, it isn't my first language).
I've been a Castlevania fan and player since I was in 7th grade, but it was you who inspired me to try a Castlevania SOTN Speedrun. I finished in 2 hours and 15 minutes, doing only death skip. I could've gotten a better time, but I was picking up a lot of items I didn't need. Force of habit. But I had magnificent fun, and backdashing helped out so much. Castlevania games are about mobility and exploration. The fact that Juste Belmont can literally dash all over the castle in Harmony of Dissonance is what makes that game so fun and immersive. Not to mention it's great for dodging, they pumped up the difficulty for Order of Ecclesia and backdashing became a tremendously useful tool. A Castlevania player hating backdashing is like a carpenter hating his workshop.
Litterally my two favorite speedrunners and now they hate each other😢
Next step.. We teach Bawk THE RUN!
Honestly, I would LOVE that
Lol. This came to my mind with this topic.
Meanwhile Legend of Zelda: ocarina of time speedruns...
"Hyuhhh! Hyahh! Hyuhh! hyuh! hahhhh!!!! X1,000,000+..."
#RollingToVictory
Only over short distances. Backwalk for marathons if sliding isn't an option.
Also worth mentioning that even if you miss optimal backdashes, you're still gated behind time locked clock room, so you're not really "wasting" time with suboptimal backdashes before that point.
Aaayy my subscription got into a video, first time subscribing, totally worth it, wishing you get the ppp
I say this could be a beautiful Meme Template: " *X game* speedrunning sucks ass, all they do is *insert basic movement* "
That person = Perfect example of trying to sound smart in something you know twat about. Solution? Don't do it. And if you want to do it? Do your research first.
I myself don't like (to watch, me, just myself) glitches in speedruns. At least for me the joy of a speedrun comes from see someone use the same stuff I had to use to past as fast as possible through a part of the game that I also passed on my vanilla gameplay. Glitches just looks like everything crashed and then, suddenly, the speedrunner is teleported to a more advanced part of the game, I feel nothing watching this.
Said this... SoTN is one of the most exciting speedruns to watch. The INSANE skill level you have to be to manage the bat, mist and Alucard transformations to move as quickly as possible through all areas (and more so thought the loading area). I myself used all of those transformations on my vanilla playthoughts and seeing someone manage them to do stuff with them I can understand but never ahieve is mind blowing. the precision in using spells, shield dashing and doing everything else. Gravity boots, bat dashing, wolf dashing through an area filled with grounded and winged enemies, using the broken game weapons to break the bosses as quickly as humanly possible, memorizing and mastering the entire castle layoult and enemy placement, deciding and managing the areas you have to visit as quickly as possible to not do a lot of backtracking (well, this is randomizer)...
This guy watched a single minute of the beggining of a speedrun and called it a day.
“This person is wrong and bad and stupid” - DragonBlitz 2023
Definitely we need more streamers like DB, heheheh kudos, I respect how you respect the guy who disrespects what you and I respect.
2 speed runner i watch will now possibly beef..? if it happens this i wanna watch..
I want to know what a tool assisted run with perfect rng and perfect glitch execution looks like. I wanna know what the least amount of time it can be completed with best case scenario.
" how come streamers never give their actual personal opinions on anything? " Streamer giving a small personal opinion on something:
It just genuinely feels like Bawk doesn't understand the speedrun itself. I won't speedrun the game because I have fingers like sausages, but I love watching and respect the run because it's really fun to watch. I may use some of the tricks I can do in my casual runs. For a speedrunner, Bawkbasoup is looking at the speedrun all wrong, and misrepresenting something that he probably didn't try to understand.
You know. General internet stuff.
Generalisations based on limited wrong information from watching one UA-cam vid (at most) is not a good look. Now if you want to know the real problem with SotN speed running, it's that all the items start in random locations, how on earth is anyone supposed to optimise a route, it's just luck.
The Castlevania if not the most beautiful , is one of the most beautiful speedruns that exists .
Just one example , the fact that has so many glitches which it's so cool , but was not configured was not intended by the developers , it's so magical .
Those death skips man ! It's so obviously cool !
I guess that guy is trolling and don't know and or watched Castlevania symphony of the night speedruns .
✌🏾
I had this misconception about SOTN as well then I actually played it and had fun shield dashing sooo
This game isn't in Bawk's wheelhouse, and his misunderstanding is kind of sad to hear. He's a real good dude, and his speedruns are crazy for the games he plays. I hope he doesn't get up in arms about your video, because this is absolutely a professional and informative way to explain things.
I 100% started speed running this game because you made it interesting and made a great game more fun for me. I think knowledge about the game helps define a persons experience with other aspects of the it. If its his first time playing, he might not have the full scope of it.
I’ve tried some of the glitches and strategies he uses and made them part of my casual for fun play throughs. I don’t have the patience for speed running lol.
this guy is trying to make back dash cancelling sound harder than it is. i watched you do it for like a few seconds and then i figured it out for myself. im not a speed runner and i picked the game up a few weeks ago just out of curiosity
Bawkbasoup is a VERY skilled Resident Evil speedrunner. But someone needs to tell him, comparing frame perfect back/shield dashing, is the equivalent to frame perfect door skips in classic RE games, or getting bitten by a zombie, or messing up a perfect line, and losing time. It happens to the best of them.
He knows, the beginning of the VOD has his chat asking him why he doesn't speed run SOTN and other similar games. He was just saying why it isn't fun to him, not that the speedrun itself is bad (he even talks about it later thay he was just generalizing). He's very chill and likes to joke a lot and almost never rages. He's one of my favorite streamers, lol
At 7:30 you say the thing that should have stopped you from making or uploading this.
Dang, drama doing the numbers
almost 14 min of db spitting facts in response to an offhand comment, shoulda been 16:26 but as you stated we're only human. GG
So, dr4gonblitzDaily can't shielddash at a TAS level ? Skill issue, i bet regular Dr4gonblitz can 😂
Sotn is the most entertaining speedrun to watch for me ,Even the game still lives up to its name till this day!
Maybe start a new category with no backdashing?
For all the people complaining that shield-dashing stops them from speedrunning SotN, I say then don't shield-dash. You can always star just casually speedrunning the game in a way you enjoy, making your own milestones and breaking your own records. That way you will train all the routes and movement techs (besides SD), and there might be a moment when you might wanna incorporate SD to your skills, which will come naturally as you improve in the game. And even if you don't want to, you can always enjoy speedrunning it at your own place. You don't need to compete for WR to enjoy speedrunning.
I get that you're trying to be encouraging, but this is terrible advice. It's much simpler than that, shield dash at a comfortable rate whatever that is. Not shield dashing at all and learning an entire category is a ridiculous notion.
Every single game this is speedrun (Speedran?) has technical aspects that require practice and understanding of complex game mechanics. Period.
its really funny to me that i hate the Sekiro speed run air-swimming trick. Sekiro top 5 games of all time though :D
CV movement is fun to me though
well said. agree 100%
Dude doesn't know what he's talking about. I watch you all the time and wish I could do the movement you guys can do.
I can understand an issue some people can have with shielddashing if it comes from "mashing buttons brings me physical pain" perspective, but it being "lame" sounds weird.
I can understand when the normies come with the dumb ass takes, but it's weird when speedrunners do it. Like are you really swimming in viewership and interest so much that you haven't had to explain why your game has interesting mechanics? For all but like 3 games I highly doubt that.
Guy was enjoying the holy J for 5 hours
People gotta stop trying to force out a reason for why they don't like stuff if they don't have anything material to say, especially in something as low stakes as a video game. Like if he just said "i don't like speedrunning SOTN", we wouldn't be here because yeah who cares.
I follow both of you so I know that you guys are just kidding.
Super Metroid Speedrun
More like looking up and down a bunch of times
I'm no speedrunner and I like to 100% each castle when I play through. 2 hours is long.
To be honest, I personally agree that back dashing/shield dashing kinda SUCKS being the most basic and fundamental movement technique for a speedrun. Visually, it's a move that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, and to perform it, you gotta keep constantly mashing two buttons, potentially ruining your controller in a long term, or even worse, injurying your hand.
This could be easily(?) solved/prevented just by adding a much, MUCH better looking and stupidly simple movement, called RUN. Yeah, run (or maybe it should be called sprint, since his regular animation is him already kind of running), just like Richter does, simply double-tap-and-hold forward, and Alucard moves more consistently and ever so slightly faster than the fastest shield dashing physically possible (like maybe 4 or 5 pixels/frame?). It would be much more visually appealing, as it could have a beautifully worked and "organic" animation - just like his regular walking/jogging animation is - and much easier on the player's hand and controller. And on top of that, if running is faster than shield dashing, then what's the point in doing the latter?
I know, I get it that the shield dashing is an exploit of an overlooked feature, and the developers never intended the back dash to be used as the main method of movement, but come on, what would it cost them to add a simple sprinting animation? Or even make the already gorgeous jogging animation be the run/sprint, and make a walking animation for the regular walk.
Do I have to play at 24 Flame for it to be correct? lol😂
That's bawkbawksoup he speedruns capcom games lol you have no idea how similar you guys are lol
What I don’t understand is why one speedrunner would disparage a game they don’t themselves play? What’s the point?
INTERNET DRAMA!!!!!!
Algorithm juice
This take is probably be based on some outdated information. There have been a number of significant optimizations over just this past year alone. The community has been pushing down times in nearly every SotN category by putting the in the time, improving the overall quality of movement, questioning old strats and finding new ones. You've pointed out many times in the past, shield dashing is actually a relatively minor part of the run. Once you have Soul of Bat, it becomes more about optimal Wing Smashing (a more technical/input heavy mechanic) and contributes to more significant time saves over the course of the run.
Yeah, but SOTN speedruns have never been about dashing fast. Even back in the early days speedrunners were pulling some crazy and unholy (in Iga's eyes) skips. Currently new great stuff is discovered involving movement, but that's mainly because of the randomizer.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DRAMA BOIISSSSSS
i like the Yugioh cap. When Forbidden Memories speedrun ?
What can we expect about someone who tries to do a speed run without ever beat the game 😂
tbh i kindof agree with the guy, i love castlevania and watch some speedruns because they can be interesting but ive always found some certain games really boring to watch and sotn is one of them
Im gonna be completely honest, as much as I’d like to speedrun SOTN would be the backdash reason but only because my thumb would fucking fall off lmao. I will always love the speedrun otherwise.
Just to elaborate I’m only saying this because it’s like that until power of wolf or wing dash. I might learn the other stuff sometime lol.
You could always speedrun the game without shield-dashing, just set your own milestones and records to break for yourself. Hey, it's even possible that after doing it for some time you might feel motivated to find ways to incorporate shield-dashing to your playstyle, but at your own pace. And if not, there's still so many movement techs and skills to train to improve your times.
You don't need to compete for WR to enjoy speedrunning.
And nothing was learned on that day.
@@andresv.9365 that is very true, plus if I wanted to I can always just focus on other stuff and not even going to reverse castle for a speedrun too. That’s what’s awesome about this game and the other metroidvania games, you can do so much different speed runs in different ways. That’s why the castlevania games are one of my favourite speedruns.
It's an issue of this weird mentality that if you're not perfect, you're a complete failure. Part of the fun (for most people) is getting better at whatever it is you're doing. It's the joy of improving, and this particular person doesn't really get that. And all of that is on top of what you already said; preconceived notions based on very base level understanding.
Maybe it's just a matter of opinion. I dont know whats going on and I only saw a guy expressing his opinion of him. As a player of Sotn since its release, I love this game, it contributed a lot to create the "gamer" I became, but backdash is disgusting as a speed mechanic and backdash cancel is even worst. It is ugly, annoying and makes a terrible sound.
In early 2000, when I was playing speedrun and thought I was incredible for doing 200.6% in a little over two hours, I already thought the backdash was bad, but I used it because it was necessary. Everything got worse when I found out about the backdash cancel, to the point that I'm used to it today. I think it's ugly but it doesn't bother me anymore.
This game is incredible and always will be, and there will always be people who won't like it for a variety of reasons and that's okay. No arguments are needed to defend a cause that was won almost 30 years ago.
Lmao, I watch both these guys and while they're both awesome at their own games I find that I don't think Iike either 😂 skills aside the way both sometimes talk to their chat just makes me watch them less and less.
Shield Dash bad? IT'S JOEVER
JOELVER**
@@kerj8580 oh, my bad
@@TheMagooxD all good! :)
I'm sure Bawk could rip apart any opinion you have of Resident Evil speed runs the same way you're able to rip this apart. Yeah, he doesn't get it. It's also not his game.
I hate restarting a run cause you were a frame off on shield dashing
I shield dash better than TAS.
@Dr4gonblitz dude you're tripping, you both were at GDQ, it's Bawkbasoup who speedruns a lot of Resident Evil games and then some. Trying SOTN was probably kinda like a new ground for him, so cut him some slack
Only thing I hate about SOTN speedrun is fleamen. GODAMMIT I HATE THOSE MIDGETS
6:40 I think what bakwbasoup is saying is he doesn't like that speedrunning sotn requires you to do that movement tech to go fast. Same as re2 remake speedruns where you need to tap aim to climb stairs faster. IMO just like dashing is fun in sotn, aiming in re2 is fun while stair skating is not.
I love Bwakasoup and he is wrong here. Just a bad take and I hope it doens't close SotN chanel of interest for other possible randomizer fans. Castlevania speed does not sucks az, it is a success!! Bwaka love u but take care with what you say.
Hey chat / commenters, you guys are worse than the topic of this video. Please don't assume that you know what you're talking about because you've watched DB.
He has a point tho, the back dashing is pretty crazy…. But it is movement tech lol
Yeah, you might not have wanted to start a witch hunt, but you did. Even in your own comments people are just attacking him.
Sempre tem um espírito de porco pra cornetar. Inveja é foda... continue com o bom trabalho DB
hes a RE gamer so 2d games are a foreign concept to him i guess?
To be honest... There's enough backdashing per run to make me a little sick of it but i dont actually care, especialy once wolf movement is involved. *That* never gets old
Honestly, show him a Lycanthrope randomizer
Bawk is pretty ignorant, but he gets a ton of views so it doesnt really matter to him, he can spew a ton of uninformed nonsense.
I think comparing SM to Sotn is like complaining cars in gran turismo handle worse than cars in gta just because they're cars.
It's going to college and working as a teacher, and having some jackass off the street come into your classroom and telling you how to do your job.
Indeed there's some things in there, just by looking at how the fleaman does the dancy dance and the difference between the playstyles and how both can defeat them is huge.
I dont play sotn right now, the matter of why isnt important, maybe one day i will speedrun it, i like how db does it, its fast error lacking, obviously he wont be able to do the perfect dash-shield cancel, but he just dances through the place and finishes in nothing. I also enjoy other videos, the randos, etc. but that aint the point.
As a really casual player, in my pov obviously, im not that player. The game is still "new" for me, the last time i played it was years ago, more than 10 maybe and i enjoyed every aspect of it, each animation is beautifully placed and done, reason why i still feel the game being "new".
Not saying that not taking your time is bad, i prefer a 100% thanks to my age and what i do, to watch db than 5 hours or 6 of the same game with said guy that i dont even know who he is.
🍿😮🍿
Well, Bawk did say that his comment is a "hot take", so, not meant to be taken seriously/as fact. He held several WR in games/series like RE, SH, TR and some others and knows that a speedrun is more complex than what you see on surface level (the guy runs RE3, for example), but, like you said, that was a small comment during a 5 hour long stream...
Huh. I've never taken the phrase 'hot take' to mean 'this is not serious' or 'this is false.' As far as I've seen, it's used to mean something more like 'this is my unpopular opinion' or 'what I'm about to say may be controversial but I feel it needs to be said.' Almost the opposite meaning, really.
But then, no one ever explains the meaning of a word when they use it and people pick up new words without checking that they know the intended meaning all the time, so I don't doubt that certain folks may use it. Especially because any word that means 'this statement is sincere/insincere' will be used to mean its exact opposite, soo... eh.
Idk, man. I'd watch 1000 SoTN runs before i watch a single Metroid run. But that's just me because i really really dislike the Metroid games.
For each their own, i suppose.
Usual ignorant person not knowing what they’re talking about. The internet is full of them.
Also the movement options in SotN are on par with SM. That’s why they’re two of the best speedruns ever. This person acts like SM doesn’t have those crazy optimizations exactly like SotN.
Out of 16-18 minutes of the speed run over half is back dashing pretending other wise to try to promote a perception is ridiculous.
This is a " HOT " take. If you watched his RE2 remake speed run he does a similiar dash strafing as well. Which is similiar to the back dash. If you understand. He meant his take seriously. But for it to also be taken as a bit of a joke.
I like watching speed running but hate shield dashing. I REALLY wish there was a dashless speed run category
Saying shield dashing is all it takes to speed run sotn is like saying knowing how to wave dash is the only thing you need to know to be a top 5 melee player
Ignorance, it's harder than you think and people over simplify stuff they don't think they can't do