Understanding the Laws of Logic
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- To learn more about Jon McCray go to: crossexamined....
To learn more about Melissa Dougherty go to: crossexamined....
To learn more about Alisa Childers go to: crossexamined....
📚 𝗥𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗺𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗱 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀
🤝 𝗦𝗨𝗣𝗣𝗢𝗥𝗧 𝗖𝗥𝗢𝗦𝗦𝗘𝗫𝗔𝗠𝗜𝗡𝗘𝗗 (𝗧𝗔𝗫-𝗗𝗘𝗗𝗨𝗖𝗧𝗜𝗕𝗟𝗘) 🤝
● Website: crossexamined....
● PayPal: bit.ly/Support...
👥 𝗦𝗢𝗖𝗜𝗔𝗟 𝗠𝗘𝗗𝗜𝗔 👥
● Facebook: / crossexamined.org
● Twitter: / frank_turek
● Instagram: / drfrankturek
● Pinterest: pin.it/JF9h0nA
🗄️ 𝗥𝗘𝗦𝗢𝗨𝗥𝗖𝗘𝗦 🗄️
● Website: crossexamined.org
● Store: impactapologet...
● Online Courses: www.onlinechri...
🎙️ 𝗦𝗨𝗕𝗦𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗕𝗘 𝗧𝗢 𝗢𝗨𝗥 𝗣𝗢𝗗𝗖𝗔𝗦𝗧 🎙️
● iTunes: bit.ly/CrossExa...
● Google Play: cutt.ly/0E2eua9
● Spotify: bit.ly/CrossExa...
● Stitcher: bit.ly/CE_Podca...
#Apologetics #Jesus #Christianity #Theology #Doctrine #Bible #QuestionsAboutFaith #Answers #Skeptics #ChristianityIsTrue #True #CrossExamined #FrankTurek
Joshua is so lucky I can use logic.
😭
Said no tiger ever
😅😅😅
I always love how Frank explains things. He is patient and gentle.
And utterly ridiculous.
@@briandobbelaere3918 now Brian, I think your comment is ridiculous.
He makes no sense. Just spews word salad and a lot of claims and assumptions based on wishful thinking and imagination. There’s no good evidence for any of it.
@Judy Ives it's word salad to you Judy. You must have an IQ of 70
Thanks for the short video.
It is sickening to see that we've come to the point where we have to use the extreme example of torturing innocent babies for fun as an example of what NOT to do but that's where we are now.
Now that's where Christianity's lack of moral understanding and critical-thinking have brought us. Or maybe we should just kill the firstborn.
It happens every day at your local planned parenthood! About 3,000 per day.
@@imdilyn no those are fetuses those aren't baby so I'm sorry you can't figure out the difference.. I'm sorry you care more about a smudge of DNA than you care about an actual living child you'll just let die in the gutter with their crackhead mom because you forced them on her.. and then get mad at the consequences of you demanding that
Which world do you live? research on the subject, how many babies and children are mistreated every day? It's easy to criticize for wanting to be right.
@eliete oliveira-janus IF is small in number but BIG in meaning. IF you only knew. IF you were as smart as you think you are. Sorry that you're not. IF you took your head out of your _______. Wisdom is difficult for some, like you. IF you had wisdom, the world would have less innocent death. Those determined to misunderstand, like you, will. Peace
Morality isn't an external force that informs our use of logic; morality is arrived at _using_ logic. Example:
PREMISE A: I want to live in a society where people are nice to each other.
PREMISE B: If I'm not nice to other people, I will be working against such a society.
CONCLUSION: Therefore I will be nice to other people.
Morality is a conclusion, not a starting point.
Your argument already stipulates a conclusion
Which is a fallacy
If anyone agrees with your moral situation you have created
Then their conclusion would be completely different
You have just pointed out that morality can reach multiple different conclusions
Which makes it subjective
Subjective morality is not a morality at all
"Nice to each other" is the problem silly!
You're ASSUMING... in a world without TRUTH... that "nice to each other" means what YOU PREFER.
It doesn't.
The greatest morality that MAN could not even fathom before Jesus was to LOVE YOUR ENEMY...DO GOOD TO THOSE WHO SPITEFULLY USE YOU!
Luke 6 tells us:
"To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either."
No moral teacher outdoes God. You just IMAGINE it does. You silly people forget that ALL LOGIC relies on TRUTH to allow us to reason at all. If Nothing is ABSOLUTELY TRUE...then logic is unusable at the very core. This is why Nietzsche lost his mind when he truly dove into the depths of atheism...it is nihilism and madness.
Consider the scientific FACT that DNA CODE CAN'T SELF-CREATE and SELF-ASSEMBLE into cells! Before continuing on your line of atheistic musings...consider the CORE VALUE of your illogical beliefs... physical science... actually disproves what you believe! Logic demands TRUTH to be at the core. Science demands OBSERVATIONAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to be ath the core of it's validity. Your worldview has neither to support you. It's building your worldview on the foundation of nothing. There is no foundation to your MYTHOLOGY of naturalism. There is only your FAITH and your INDOCTRINATED DOGMA... NOT FACTS.
@@1Corinthians13.4_7 I didn't say morality was objective: I said it was a conclusion reached through logic.
@@joshuakohlmann9731
What you have said
Is that morality is reached in multiple conclusions
And those multiple conclusions would disagree with each other
One conclusion
It's good not to kill babies
2nd conclusion
It's ok to kill babies
Multiples conclusions for the same question
I never said you said morality was objective
I said
You clearly pointed out a subjective morality system
@@GreatBehoover 💯
Thanks for the short. God bless you.
Law is principle. Principles are conclusions of logic. So Law is derived by logic.
Without principle there can be no law. And without law there can be no Justice.
When Slavery was the law of the land, was it just in the eyes of those who were moral?
Instinctively we know rape is wrong. In the absence of a written law, we know it’s wrong
@@koklol5347
If there was a disaster from space like an astroid or meteor hit earth and wiped out all humans but one man and one woman.
If that woman refused to have sex with that man and that man raped that woman so she would get pregnant and continue the human race............. Would that rape be morally wrong to do?
But with subjective morality nothing is wrong. Everyone’s idea of right and wrong is just as valid as the next guys. Societal agreement doesn’t work either because let’s say a society agreed and wanted to get rid of special needs kids that could reproduce, in order to strengthen their gene pool, how could you claim they’re wrong? But if our morality is grounded in God we have a standard outside of ourselves to judge an act.
They are also moral because they are truthful, so therefore they are good.
Lol I don't think you worked out the implication of your logical statement.
P1: If truthful, then moral.
P2: If moral, then good.
P3: X is truthful.
C: Therefore X is good.
'If A, then B' does not mean 'if and only if A, then B'
Therefore there are no restrictions on being good if you are not truthful.
P1: If not truthful, then feelings spared.
P2: If feelings spared, then moral
P3: If moral, then good
P3: X is not truthful.
C: Therefore X is good and not truthful.
LOGIC DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD.
IT IS LOGICAL TO PERMANENTLY DISABLE A VENGEFUL ENEMY, HOWEVER IT IS NOT GOOD, JUST LOGICAL.
@@LuisRamirez-by2mn lol
@@LuisRamirez-by2mn it's actually good bro
Logic may help us with the natural world, but we live in a supernatural world as well! This requires discernment.
Honestly such a good point that I've never thought of as a Christian.
I hear atheist say all the time when I ask them where do you get your morals or how do you have moral reasoning they say from logic. But as Frank perfectly explained logic is simply a tool used to come to a conclusion that isn't a moral statement
God Bless this Man !
Disgusting serpent
Without the bible, we never would have known that suffering is bad and flourishing is good.
Just for clarification: do you differentiate between bad and evil? A lot of folks mistakenly think the two are interchangeable. For example: I have a bad back. It hurts most of the time. But my back is not evil, it's just damaged.
At the same time, it can be said that the Germans flourished under Hitler. But only a weirdo would say that he was NOT evil.
Logic is used to come up with moral principles. We are born with genetic and inherit as well as experience cultural experiences which both help us develop moral laws or rules. There is no dependence on outside sources for morals.
Well said
I'd like to see him and Matt Dellahunty debate
Matt would demolish him.
@@BobReed58 sure would be fun to watch!!!
You mean the ex pastor who yells on radio
@@BobReed58see. Jay dyer vs matt dillhunty
Thousands of first born infants in Ancient Egypt would be pretty upset if they were watching this
This is a professor! Excellent teacher.
Amen
This is why we call you children your still learning.
if you examine evidence with honesty, logic and reason, the conclusion is atheism.
"evidence"? Give us a single evidence that God doesn't exist. Just one?
Incorrect.
@@nooneisprophetinhisownland2486 the evidence would depend on which god you believe in, and which version of that god
@@TheAndnor blablabla zero evidence... Dancing around as usual. That's all you can do ...Man you got nothing to say. Just be humble n sit down.
@@nooneisprophetinhisownland2486 i cant give any evidence without knowing what I should give evidence for.
There are thousands and thousands of gods, and all evidence cant be applied to all of them
That’s a nice distinction Frank, thanks… I hadn’t thought about hat before…
So like if it's wrong to torture babies, then I should not flood the entire world causing all babies to drown to death, which is a horrible way to die.
I see what you are saying about logic and external morals.
Well you guys should know that the rainbow 🌈 is a reminder that it won’t be water 💦 next time but 🔥 for this wicked and unbelieving world 🌎
@@koklol5347 is god all knowing?
I love his logic. ❤
His “logic” is filled logical fallacies.
It is not logical to conclude that the universe designed and created life by some random accident of unknown material with no known origin, without intelligence, meaning, purpose or intention. Nothing ever tested or observed has shown such a thing could ever be possible. That is illogical guesswork.
Which is not what is claimed.
@@Bomtombadi1 Pretty sure I read "Big Bang" and "primordial soup" from somewhere claiming to be science and there wasn't any greater intelligence assigned to the process. Better take it up with those who invented these terms and "theories" if you disagree with them.
@@festushaggen2563 we dont know how the universe was created. And I’m pretty certain mainstream science doesn’t propose to know
@@CaptainFantastic222 Then they should keep their theorizing to themselves and out of public schools of education where kids are taught to believe these things as anything more than imagination.
@@festushaggen2563 your language implies intent. “The universe designed and created,” is loaded with the implication that it intended to create a design it implements. It implies life is designed and created.
Random accident is more appealing to incredulity and emotion than anything, as well as implying intent again. An accident implies there was some goal. Randomness is intended to appeal to incredulity, while also general a feeling of it being something more than you are. While true some randomness is responsible, it is not THE driving factor.
You’ve been told in the past that the Big Bang refers to an expansion of space time. The universe in the current state we know it had a beginning, though what was going on before that is not known.
“Primordial soup” is constantly brought up by creationists. Even if it was originally brought up, life beginning in the ocean is not even remotely captured by lightning hitting a small pond.
Theories in your mind: what are they?
Morals are logical
Colossions 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power
Yes true
What impresses me most is the ignorance of reasoning of this generation.
What impressses me the most is that you need some old fart telling you what’s right and wrong. 🤦🏿♂️
Are you suggesting previous generations were better at it?
@@Matt-hq2ew Of course they were, many humans were naive and believed anything that was told when it came to salvation. In reality the reason religions have so much influence is cause as humans, were simply afraid of death. And we want to believe there is something afterwords, and that’s where the church gets there strangle hood, on that fear of death. The short answer is no one really knows if there is even an afterlife. You, me and everyone will find the truth we it our turn to die. I think over time humans have been waiting on the so called return, which hasn’t happened. Overtime many have to took this vail off of and started to question the church and it’s teachings. Which is not a bad thing, but if you notice the church will blame the devil ASAP, and never take accountability for one self.
The gullibility and lack of critical thinking skills of your generation is sad....... Well I love you anyways good chance with the same generation
@@darkeen42 The positive side of your analysis is that, gullibility, a person can overcome gaining knowledge and understanding because it is powerful. Being critical is one's character, which is a weakness.
That's my point, weakness in humans is an easy target to be influenced by lack of knowledge.
are two opposite weaknesses
Yall remember the titanic? “Even God Himself can’t sink this ship!”
Famous last words 😂 God is Holy Holy Holy but even Jesus Himself says do not tempt the Lord your God!
Why is it so hard to navigate to the full length version of these shorts?
A logical person would comprehend no child can enlighten themselves to an adult state of mind.
A child must have had wisdom imparted to be able to comprehend and the experience to understand that which is true.
God’s nature would drown Joshua in a global flood.
How very moral.
Joshua was also born a Jebusite, which God created but doesn't particularly care for. He's given his favorite people carte blanche to commit genocide against Joshua and his family. But commands everyone to not murder.
You can only use logic if you know the facts. The laws of logic contradict him every time 😂😂
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD JESUS and shalt believe in thy heart that GOD raised him from the dead thou shalt be Saved 🙌 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation!
Nutcase xtian CAPS
I think this argument is a bit soft.
Because Truth as an absolute is actually a moral claim.
Logic is a product of Truth existing.
I hope that helps him.
1. Suffering exists
2. God is all powerful and could take it away
3. He doesn’t 😢
4.he will
5.we cause suffering to come towards us because we sin
6. From the beginning humans being live in the garden of eden no death no suffering came to them until they choose to disobey God
7. Sinning is breaking God's law basically going against God since God is the owner of life and you going against him by sinning means you choose death.
Why would he take it away? It's part of existence.
@@benj766 we dont cause all of our own suffering though. what about victims of child sexual assault?
@@mishka_bo_bishka good question. All of suffering is because of sin. Nobody is truly good either, as we are all born with a sin nature. Christ was the only person who was good, and didn’t need to come down from heaven into this sinful world, since He was sinless. He did it anyways so that we may be saved by His grace, the grace that He died for us and rose again carrying our punishment for us. So this alone proves that God doesn’t not care, He put on flesh and did all of that. He is sustaining you at the moment believe it or not, if He didn’t you would be reduced to atoms in an instant. Both you and I are only dust. And God offers us eternal life if we place our trust in the blood He shed for our righteousness. Nothing of what you can do will ever get you to heaven, to God, it’s what Jesus Christ did that will declare you righteous before God.
@@alil6547 if christ was the only person that was good then it feels like we’ve been robbed of our free will. if nothing i do will save me, then what does it matter that i have free will?
Good thing he added the caveat “for fun.” God tortured millions of babies when he flooded the Earth, but they deserved it. 🙄
Should we try to pass fallacies as logic?
They keep trying but so far the atheist has failed
@William Rice you mean Christians keep trying and keep failing. There you go fixed that for you.
Argument from ignorance, he loves that one.
@@kevinwesterville2115 I know
Atheist Argument from ignorance:
I WANT TO BELIEVE in the MYTHOLOGY of NATURALISM....
THEREFORE...
I IGNORE the FACT that DNA CODE CAN'T SELF-CREATE and SELF-ASSEMBLE into cells.
I IGNORE the FACT that TWO CHROMOSOMES NEVER HAVE BEEN OBSERVED TO ACTUALLY COMBINE... AUTOMAGICALLY... to form any new species....NEVER!
I IGNORE the FACT that everything CAN'T be SELF-CREATED by NOTHINGNESS!
YET....you believe anyways!🙄🙄🙄🙄
“I personally…,” is a “my truth” statement.
All logic ceases immediately once you say that.
“My truth” is what you say when you don’t want logic.
You just wanna be right.
If you just wanna be right then talk amongst your friends or post a comment.
If you wanna enter the arena of logical thinking and accurate deduction you gotta put on your big boy pants.
Gotta be ready to handle the blowback of wrong thinking. Then!….Toss your bad ideas into the trash and click “empty trash!”
It takes readiness and humility to battle in the open square.
There’s no… “we’ll, you have your logic and I have mine”… NO! WRONG!
You can have your own opinion but not your own logic.
Logic is the referee!
It tells you when you’re right!
Nobody owns logic!
No God = No Common Morals = Anything and everything is ok (The direction our country is headed)
I only need 2 seconds and can tell this person is not moved by the Holy spirit others tend to late a second or two more
My shirt that says ATHEIST on the front is a good give away for people when I’m out on public.
More often human logic ends up being fallacious assertions..
If its wrong to believe in something with no proof then it is wrong to believe in a God. That's logical.
There is proof for God. Morals is one.
@@scruffmcgruffthecrimedawg5661 So your god who had a premeditated plan to murder his own son by requiring the human race to sin even more by killing him is the source of your morals?
The same god who states that you may beat your slave with an iron rod as long as they recover within 2 days and says that you own the wife and children of your slave.
Are you saying that if you saw a child running into the street in front of a car the only reason that you would try to hold him back in order to save his life is the threat of eternal damnation in hell?
Talking of which, there is another totally imoral concept whereby 99 percent of the world in the first 200 years after Jesus was supposed to have lived, had never heard of Jesus.
As he was the only way to heaven this means that they were through no fault of their own condemned to eternal suffering.
I think I prefer the Innate and democratically agreed morals that naturally evolve and ensure the progress of a society and/or species.
After all the human race would not have evolved to where it is if it was considered exceptable to randomly kill one another for no reason.
If you are deluded enough to think that morals can only be forced upon us under fear of eternal suffering then I am not surprised that you believe in God.
You should perhaps be a little more critical in your thinking.
@@davidsuttie4192 sin wasn't required. It's a choice.
Slavery was common in the world do to free will. Biblical slavery was indentured servitude not race based and is illegal in civilized countries.
@@davidsuttie4192 it's not immoral and many people wrote about Jesus outside the bible. Also seeing someone die isn't a sin.
@@davidsuttie4192 god said thou shalt not murder. That moral comes from god not humanity. It's why certain countries allow unnecessary death.
Illogical morality is fickle and dangerous.
Do you mean immorality?
@@koklol5347 if your basis for morals can't tolerate logical analysis, it's not great morals
The so-called "laws of logic" are human-made tools to help you reason. They are formulas that we made up that are rooted in our observations of how the universe seems to work, and as such are descriptive. They are definitely not prescriptive "laws" or "rules" the universe must or ought to follow like some people believe.
Getting that coin to drop with the jeezbuz crowd is a herculean task. 🙄
@@michaelanderson4849 It's really funny when they insist logic is divine (in some way), until it turns against them.
@@hansdemos6510Because you can logic your way to anything
for or against. This is why truth and evidence is important but thankfully there's more than enough for the truth of God
@@samuelbishop3316 You said: _"Because you can logic your way to anything for or against."_
I am not sure which comment you are reacting to.
I think that if you use incorrect premises that your audience does not know are incorrect, you can construct a logically plausible argument for just about anything you like. Dr. Turek demonstrates that quite effectively in any number of videos on this channel.
You said: _"This is why truth and evidence is important..."_
They sure are.
You said: _"... but thankfully there's more than enough for the truth of God"_
If that is what you believe, could you please provide that evidence to this poor agnostic atheist? Thanks in advance.
@@samuelbishop3316 We can construct a model describing part of nature which seems perfectly logic and accurate. But that does not mean the model is a true representation of reality. This has been a constant problem in philosophy since the days of the ancient greeks.
My whole life, and don’t judge. But have been pissed off at people and have things done to me… that I’ve wanted to kill someone over but the thing stopping me was GOD, I didn’t want to go to hell for the sin of KILLING another human…
Now that I’m a dad, I see a couple situations I might kill, and be ok going to hell for.
My damn point is knowing a higher power is over me, stopped me from making bad decisions, bc I know the word of god of all things want to join him in heaven
This is precisely why various faith stories were invented by men thousands of years ago.
No it wasn't God that's. You it was your brain. And that realization of the consequences murderer would have.
Yes the higher power that stopped you is the police and jail. A lot of people through history have committed violence because of the Bible you should learn some history
It’s pretty sad to have to resort to syllogistic logic in order to explain logic at all in relation to the subject matter.
I’m starting to see how Turek gets around the pesky problem of there being no credible, demonstrable evidence, no falsifiable, testable, verifiable evidence, that his or any god exists… he simply ignore the problem and just presupposes that God is real, he asserts it and I see no reason to accept his assertion as being true.
People think because they went to college that they know better than God our creator, and they actually think they can run this nation with out His wisdom !!! Well look at this country this is a nation ran without God,s wisdom, but with man,s and look at the destruction man has caused !!! We will not recover till we all return to God,s and respect His standards of behavior and ask for His guidance in governoring this nation and it's people !!!! Why do people say " God bless America" How can a holy God bless what is going on here !! We have flaunted our depravity in His holy face and ignored His warning in the bible ! So please people pray for this nation or our enemies will take over and we will be forced to bow to an evil dictatorship!!!
Where does the Bible talk about logic? Gods nature? Chapter and verse?gods logic nature?
You don’t need a god to be just and moral 😊
How do you know what's just on your own? We can't go by what you say,you're just a man.
@@Jason-cn5vo Of course we can. Just consider the impact your actions have on others. No gods required.
@@bigt8753 yeah how is that working so far?
@@kiwisaram9373 Pretty good
@Jason-cn5vo nearly everyone has a God given conscience.
You are absolutely in need of God to be capable of applying wisdom to Knowledge. Otherwise , Knowledge is like an engine without the gasoline to power it.
The concept that only a god can provide moral principles is utterly preposterous. Morals are based on human emotion and empathy. Proposing that without embracing a god, humans would be torturing babies willy-nilly is completely illogical.
Lol what?
Logic is based on the laws of nature and human nature. Keep you discussing imaginary friend out of it.
The Bible doesn’t say it’s wrong to torture babies for fun, just to be clear
Luke 17:2 - It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
The bible actually says to kill your kid😵💫
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:15-17 KJV
@@terryaucoin4708 the verse actually says “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death." , it never said who shall put them to death!!! However we know for sure any sinner must die anyway.
QUESTION FOR YOU: Name to me a Christian that you know who killed his kid?? Name one please.
@@terryaucoin4708 Let's not forget about witches too
@@Matt-hq2ew
Ya! 🤣
They couldnt find any so they just killed women lol
What a BS artist this man is. By his answer, he clearly doesn't know what the Laws of Logic are. But he has to pretend. Because that's his job... to feign competence. It's all a con.
Someone can find 100s of logical reasons to kill you
Dr. Turek you sir are a genius and are using it very well. 😁
I don't see what God has anything to do with this.
Facts don't care about your feelings
But Morals have feelings
Good is God way .Satan way is good and. Evil .this is beginning of law .when sin started.
That is a false identify lad😏 Abba Father God Most High He is always right 😤🤧💯 PERIOD
1. The Laws of Logic are Descriptive and they work within the known Universe.
2. The idea of a God, All-Powerful, (Outside Time&Space) by definition is a contradiction against the Laws of Logic.
On point 2,
Doesn’t it seem illogical that everything came out of nothing? And not just empty space, but true nothingness. No mass, no energy, no space, no quantum fields for fluctuations to occur in, nothing. How could anything ever come from that degree of nothingness, and why would it happen?
Doesn’t it also seem illogical if some part or other of the physical universe has always existed eternally? Where did it come from? Whether it’s our universe eternally expanding and contracting or some multiverse or anything else, that’s a lot of stuff and order to just exist eternally with no seeming reason, especially when all the observational data we observe about what does exist and how it works seems to suggest that the very system in question doesn’t work like that.
Meanwhile, the existence of God outside of time and space only creates a contradiction if God is a physical being that takes up space or if He is a temporal being that requires time. If He is an eternal Spirit, then there’s no contradiction because His being wouldn’t require either of those things. That means He would’ve made something ‘other’ compared with Himself, which makes sense because no created thing can ever be eternal because creation means a beginning of existence (logical contradiction).
When I was an agnostic, and later atheist, I used to love to puzzle over the fact that anything existed at all. I thought to myself that there are basically two logical possibilities, either stuff at some point came into existence out of true nothing for seemingly no reason all on its own or stuff has existed in some form or other with no beginning for seemingly no reason. They both seem equally absurd.
Later on, though, I figured out that in a sense it’s both. God has no beginning and simply is for reasons we cannot grasp (which is at the very least no more absurd than the two aforementioned possibilities, and thus cannot simply be discarded as illogical because it stands on the exact same basis as any other conceivable possibility in its seeming unexplainableness) and His creation came into existence out of nothing but His command at some point. And the funny thing is that even though this explanation contains both prior explanations seemingly impossible on their own, an eternal and self-existent being capable of creating out of nothing actually, mind-blowingly, makes the most logical sense by far in comparison.
So if God is not made of anything physical like matter or energy and needs not space to exist, where is the contradiction with Him existing outside of space?
And if He is an eternal, self-existent being that just is, then where is the contradiction that He exists outside of time? Whatever that means, anyways. It’s not an unfamiliar idea to human beings that the flow of time might be no more than an ordering of experience or flow of causality or even an illusion of our perception altogether, and an unchanging and uncaused Being that exists outside of the physical world would not need time or thermodynamics in which to change or be caused, so there is no logical contradiction there either.
On point 1,
Whether the laws of logic work within the known universe alone, or even possibly beyond, or whether they are self-true transcendent principles that must necessarily be so is a very, very old debate, ancient even, so you can’t exactly assert your opinion authoritatively on the matter and just settle it.
And whatever the answer to the true fundamental nature of logic, it really doesn’t make a difference in this case whether they’re prescriptive or descriptive, practically speaking, does it? Even if they have no authority on their own but just describe reality in the physical and/or beyond (which I suspect, in an abstract sense, may be technically true), what difference does that meaningfully make?
@@littlefishbigmountain
1. The Laws of Logic are not "transcendent principles" since Aristotle was the first one to propose them.
2. "And whatever the answer to the true fundamental nature of logic, it really doesn’t make a difference in this case whether they’re prescriptive or descriptive, practically speaking, does it?"
That's like saying there is no difference between saying the Earth is Flat as a matter of fact or a Sphere in reality.
a) *Prescriptive Laws* are subject to Change.
b) *Descriptive Laws* describe how things are.
3. " So if God is not made of anything physical like matter or energy and needs not space to exist "
*How do you know what your God is made of, exactly?*
*What tests on this God of yours have you conducted and verified*
*So* the ONLY Way you can get around the contradiction that the idea of your God presents and by declaring that the Laws of Logic do not apply to your God, *so claiming that your God "created" the Laws of Logic is nonsense* because he can do whatever he wants, doesn't he?
4. Yeah, I don't care about your life story, why is it that every Muslim thinks his story of finding Islam is remarkable, let me tell you, it isn't. *And if you are not a Muslim, just change Muslims to Christian and Islam to Christianity*
5. If you have a problem with the Scientific descriptions of the Universe, please, take it up with the Scientists themselves, *Go and Prove them wrong, I like to see that video,* and if you have a problem with whether the Universe is expanding, eternal, or whatever Quantum reality it is, That's your problem, *Science,* FYI, *only describe things as they are* So, if Scientists haven't described the existence of your God, just remember this,...
*Scientists can not Describe things that they have NO Evidence for*
Not at all
Space, time, and matter all have a begjning, this we know from evidence. So logically speaking what made these things must be outside of them. Why are they so ordered and consistent if originating from randomness? Logically speaking there's a mind as this idea goes against all fundemental laws we understand about the world.
@@samuelbishop3316
1. Actually, the Big Bang theory only explains how far in the past can science trace the expansion of the known Universe, not that the Universe came into existence at that moment.
2. So... Logically speaking "Outside" is also Temporal Space because the word "Outside" means something that is in an External Place or Location, so please, explain what is this *Outside Location* that is Outside the Universe called? Is it Eternal? Or was it created?
@@XDRONIN
There is no external place. There is only a preexistent Whom. Asking where He was before He created anything doesn’t make sense because He hadn’t made any place to “be”.
Even in the known universe, we can’t define some random point in empty space except by its relation to other stuff. How are we supposed to define a place outside of space if we can’t even define every point IN space?
If you’re wondering how He can “be” somewhere when no space exists, God is spirit. It’s not like asking where your car keys or your left kidney is, and He’s not a physical object like our bodies that materially exist. He’s also omnipresent too
So Frank. Remind us exactly what you think about gay people...
Wow you got him🥶
Sinners who can be saved by God.
Gay people are wonderful people loved by God. We all are sinner and need Christ for saving grace.
@@foxhound4218 man they are not wonderful just like straight people aren’t wonderful outside of Christ.
What about the? Or are you talking about their behavior? Would you like to know what GOD thinks about homosexual behavior?
Amen!!!!
To be fair though, babies can be complete assholes
Gee.
“I personally do not agree…”
“that the laws of logic fall under human opinion”
You think? But your human aren’t you? Logically contradictory isn’t?
It's clips like these that continue to contribute to the decline of Christianity. More and more people are studying and researching the entire Bible and its suggestions and it simply drives them away.
This guy can't help using the god of the gap's fallacy can he
He doesn't explain how logic is God's nature. Isn't it odd that a god would make humans who could logically reason and then demands we believe in it when there's no logical evidence or reason to believe. Odd that it would make a book that's full of inaccuracies and fallacies. These are just assertions with no evidence.
Isn’t it odd that a god would make humans who could logically reason and then demands we believe in it… what is “it”? Logical reasoning?
I like how he didn't say the laws of logic do not apply to his god.
That's what these goofy dudes are known for.
Keep using God without providing evidence for the existence of any God 😂😂😂😂
Laws of Logic grounded in the nature a being with no good evidence of that being exists. Good luck trying to produce any Logic!
Import isn't needed, only empathy.
God cannot be the source of the laws of logic.
Nonsense.
But do we have a moral obligation to strive to think in a logical and consistent manner?
If God didn’t exist then nothing matters. Without God there is no reason not to be self centered and argumentative and violent. Without Christ it is anarchy every man for himself.
@@Animosity-yj7um You can’t back up that claim
@@O.Reagano yes you can. Look at all the secular people who commit massive amounts of murder.
@@scruffmcgruffthecrimedawg5661 More crimes are commited by religious peoples. That’s not even a proof to begin with.
@@O.Reagano no they aren't. What a dumb thing to say. Unless you mean Muslims.
Whereby nature itself is un-natural, logic dictates it is the product of supremely intelligent design. In a world God so loved that He lay down His own life to redeem us, logic says accept Gods Grace today.
This is just plain garbage reasoning on the part of the "professor."
Abstracts are IMAGINARY. Logic, laws, gods.... each is imaginary. F.Turek is a deceiver.
Incorrect entirely.
@@RyanHarville Unfortunately for you, abstracts are not a particle let alone composed of particles.
Thus, I call you an intellectual Duennbrettbohrer
@@kleenex3000 Lmao, okay thank you.
@@RyanHarville But I, i am dead serious. Abstracts are called abstracts, bcz they are being ab-s-TRACT-ed (trahere: Latin = to pull) from/about the real.
IE: Abstracts are NOT components of the real. Ie they are, beyond a doubt, not a particle ie they are im-material.... !!!YET!!!! being asserted ie they are imaginary.
Thank you for reading, and kind regards from GERMANY, from a NOMINALIST and born-again ATheist.
@@kleenex3000 So logic, laws, gods, are not real. You call yourself atheist. Can you explain how you got to such a concrete conclusion if things such as logic and laws are not real?
The "Laws of Logic" are NOT grounded in "Gods Nature" because "God" is a belief that exists ONLY inside the mind of the believer, God is NOT a reality and does not exist as a reality. God exists ONLY as a belief, like a unicorn, a leprechaun or an amazing imaginary super hero who battles the evil villain, in this case "Satan". What IS a reality are the God hucksters, preachers and profiteers, some who actually "believe" in the product they are selling while forgetting, once again, that a "belief" is something that exists ONLY inside their minds. Reindeer do NOT fly and no dead guy named Jesus, is coming back to save you of your sin or to cast judgment upon you. We may try to live our lives the best we can but, no matter the outcome, when we die we will NOT be going to an imaginary heaven and we will NOT be burning in the fires of an imaginary hell. However, we WILL all be returning to the silence and nothingness of our non-existence.
The human mind is fragile and spiritual retardation is a real thing.
“Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.”
"Grounded in god's nature". Prove that. Oh wait, this is FT. No worries. Frank is a tool.
Amusing how apologists always say "torturing babies for fun is wrong." why not just "torturing babies is wrong?"
what about killing babies for god? is that right or wrong?
Would it be below the belt to quote Psalms 137:9 at this point?
@@joshuakohlmann9731 Oh no! Something quoted out of context! Whatever shall we do?
@@SamAdamsGhost I did acknowledge that it might be below the belt. But since you've responded:
The context, I believe, is the Jewish exile. The Israelites sit beside the waters of Babylon and weep to remember Jerusalem and its cruel treatment at the hands of the Edonites. Up to this point, it's an aching, beautiful song of longing and loneliness. What a pity it didn't just end there! The cry of "we will be avenged and will do to you what you did to us" is certainly very human and perfectly understandable; but delighting in the potential violent slaughter of babies isn't very godly, surely?
@@joshuakohlmann9731 A curse is a curse. An understandable one. Not like God was saying "kill babies" which is what most people assume when they quote that.
Franc do you remember the time Hitchens mopped the floor with your face ? We haven't forgotten.
Turek says the laws of logic are "grounded in God's nature," then goes ahead and explains what they are and gives an example, in the form of a syllogism, without involving a God at all, showing that a God is not necessary to explain what logic is and how logic can be used without a God at all.
The part where he said torturing a baby is wrong was the part where he inserts God's design of morality. Then the part where he says this is a baby so I shouldn't torture it was the logical part which derived from the foundational premise of God's nature.
His point is that the laws of logic require a moral principle to use laws of logic. They are a tool to come to conclusions from a value.
@@waltglass7055Frank has got some weird obsession with torturing babies for fun.
@Dr.Doctor3000 hey how's it going. Are you an aethiest?
@@waltglass7055 but you don’t need a god to arrive at the conclusion that baby torture is wrong. For example I don’t believe in gods or a god and can come to that conclusion
Love to see Frank get put in his place by Hitch. He can’t work that used car salesman manipulation on him.
He gets this exactly backwards, as you use logic to inform your morality. Murder is immoral because it is illogical due to its damaging effects on society which are quantifiable and measurable.
He just use one example..
@@elieteoliveira-janus2416 Which was wrong on. You use data and statistics to determine what is wrong or right.
@@Asemodeous it's impossible to use data and statistic to determine morality.
Nope. You got it wrong because the very concept of "immoral" and "damaging" are based on the fact that you morally deem something favorable or Good as a standard. The Moral Law is higher than the Logical Law you use to enforce it
@Matheus Boarini We use data and statistics everyday to impart morality. Ethics is only possible out of a rational mindset.
Where is your evidence for the existence of this supposed god,
How have you determined its nature,
And what evidence is there to suggest that the laws of logic came from this god's nature?
You are formed of it, and sustained by in every breath
@@williamrice3052 no they are evidence of life. They are evidence their parents had sex. They are breathing of their own accord. Nothing in there suggests a god. Try again.
@@williamrice3052 Prove it. Don't just presume it.
“The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.” Psalm 19:1
For many, creation is evidence of the Creator.
His nature is revealed through His Word (The Old and New Testament) - loving, just, holy, gracious, etc.
As for His nature and the laws of logic, I’d have to meditate on that. The apostle Paul wrote in his letter to the Corinthians, “For God is not a God of disorder but of peace…”
Maybe there’s something to say about that. I’d probably lean on the argument that, as Creator, logic/order comes from Him. Without Him there is chaos and disorder.
@@contextiscool7308 quoting scripture is meaningless.
Beside the fact that they don't come from God's nature, this was a surprisingly good take from Frank. I'm impressed.
It is a fact
@@1Corinthians13.4_7 Facts can be substantiated with evidence.
@@katamas832 yup, nobody disagreed to that statement
@@1Corinthians13.4_7 Then can you substantiate that the laws of logic come from God's nature with evidence?
@@katamas832
do you agree that the laws of logic even exist?
AMEN brothers and sisters in Christ our Lord and God bless you ALL 🙏❤️👊. EXACTLY no critical thinking in most reasons for religious beliefs, blindly believing things without evidence, Atheism and unbelief I guess 🤔. Atheism ain't got nothing new or better to offer than the very religious beliefs it's critical of so it's hypocrisy at it's finest 😂. Hello this is for all you Atheists, unbelievers and skeptics. I'm going to address a few misconceptions and lies about God's Character and His Word. The Bible doesn't support chattel slavery or anything else Immoral. Ok so Atheists and unbelievers say God is either Immoral, incompetent or not responsible so let's see what The Scriptures actually say. God revealed himself and created a nation in a real, historical context. It was a world with a slave-based economy, with city states often at war with each other, with polygamous marriages to ensure the continuation of family lines. The laws of the Old Testament regulate this behaviour. Slaves are to be treated humanely (Exodus 21:11). They are given rights and not seen as mere possessions. Hebrew slaves were able to buy their own freedom. Human trafficking is condemned (Exodus 21:16). In contrast to the law code of Babylon, Old Testament Israel was a light to the nations. The Old Testament law and narratives do not stand alone. Jesus is now the best example of what we read. So the moral teaching of the Bible cannot be summarised by a quote taken out of context from the Old Testament to demonize God and His Word. Slavery was permitted in Old Testament law but it was regulated by God giving the Israelites instructions on how to fairly and humanely treat their slaves (it was like indentured servitude where someone could work for you if they owed debts or needed income not cruel like chattel slavery). God allowed the people of Israel to own slaves since they themselves has already experienced over 400 years of generations of Egyptian slavery and knew how inhumane it was to be beaten, overworked and taxed so God set them apart from other nations and cultures around them by giving them a fair way to treat their slaves since slavery had already existed in the world but it doesn't mean God condoned it just used it for His Will to bring Good And in the light of the whole scriptural teaching, we find the reasons for its ultimate abolition (Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1-3; Philemon 15-16 and Galatians 3:28). The Word of God provided the moral standard against slavery in the Roman Empire and against the slave trade in the New World.
But what of genocide or holy war in the book of Joshua? Several things could be pointed out. The use of warfare in the ancient world did not always mean literal total destruction, even when events are described in such terms. Furthermore, the book of Joshua does not describe a genocide. It is not a race who are being wiped out, as in genocide, but a religious practice which was often appalling and degrading. Those who repent (like Rahab from Jericho or Ruth) are not destroyed but become part of Israel. It is not the racial group that is in view but their "detestable practices".
However, after all is said, we must still acknowledge that God brought judgment on the nations of Canaan. It is not our place as believers isn't to sugar-coat the Bible. For some skeptics, this is enough to make God a moral monster. But the fact is that Jesus continued to affirm that God is a Judge who will bring a future judgment on all peoples and all nations. God’s judgment will be just. The list of Old Testament stories rejected by critics often leads to a similar dismissal of the New Testament teaching of Jesus on the existence of hell.
After all, what was the Flood of Genesis or the conquest of Joshua if not a glimpse of future judgment? Hell does not demonstrate cruelty on God’s part, but it does demonstrate His Holiness and our moral accountability. Perhaps this is the real reason many people rail against the God of the Bible? It is not that they think He is a moral monster, but that they are afraid He is a moral Judge, and that has implications for our behaviour now. God is an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being and we as His creatures have Eternal souls and spirits so the punishment for our sins against Him must therefore also be Eternal but so must the reward for righteousness that's why He sent His Son Jesus to live a perfectly righteous and sinless Life (which none of us could ever possibly expect to do) suffer the humiliating and torturous death of crucifixion to shed His Own Blood willingly so that all who willingly accept His gift of salvation by grace through faith in Him will be saved and given Eternal life because that's what God wants is for us to willingly accept His gift of salvation and choose life. Exodus 21:20-21 literally speaks about capital punishment befalling anyone who mistreats their slaves so yes people are taking Scripture out of context to demonize God who literally promises that slaves who are mistreated under someone else's authority is to be avenged. When we hear the word “slavery” we think of innocent human beings, kept prisoner for life, having no rights under law and so reduced to animals. This is clearly immoral because it is unjust: the slave has done nothing to deserve the treatment.
The situation described as “slavery” in the Bible was nothing like this. It is more accurately described as one of indentured servitude. Many “slaves” were indentured servants, working for a term of years
Some other “slaves” were prisoners. There were no prisons. Prisoners had to work to live like everyone else. Some had life sentences. Some served a term and were released.
People didn't beat their good slaves but treated them well and protected their assets thus.
But no matter how rebellious a slave was, you couldn't just beat them to death. And if you knocked out their tooth or damaged their eye then you had to set them free. (Exodus 21:26). God wasn't using what other nations did because He wanted to set His Chosen People of Israel apart from the cruel, inhumane and unjust systems other cultures had so He gave them a fair way to treat their slaves and servants.
There is a lot of ignorance on this topic which is understandable given the age we live in but it's not the nefarious set up we think of when we think of modern slavery. The question Atheists must ask themselves is how come the Jews aren't being accused of slavery and human trafficking if they're guilty of it in The Bible and why would white slave owners rip out pages from The Old and New Testament Scriptures to justify their owning blacks as slaves if The Bible already justified slavery?
Can you repeat that Justin?
The car salesman beats up on another 20 year old student.
@Cameron Clark I'm talking about this dishonest sleazebag who bullies students for money. But you knew that already.
@Cameron Clark let the tapdancing begin 🤣
@Cameron Clark like your invisible sky wizard 🤣
Probably shouldn't torture joshua for any reason
There's a word for people who are completely logical and rational, they're called psychopaths. Stuff like stealing or taking advantage of someone, logically you are gaining something right? why would you care about someone else? that's where God's spirit comes in
Maybe, nature can also explain cooperation and the necessity of not attacking things that can in turn attack you. I think most people don’t hurt others out of fear of retribution be it from man or God.
I think very few people say I’m not going to hurt that person because I don’t like being hurt? Very few and only after tons of personal trauma, especially men.
Let’s not get to high on ourselves, the flesh is condemned to sin regardless of the state of your soul and will continually sin and continually desire to sin.
“I know what is in man” Jesus Christ
Yes he does, and it’s nothing pretty and anyone who says otherwise isn’t being honest.
Logic is a Numerical Process, it's representative of the Gradient of Electromagnetic Sorting.
-1---0---+1
Universal Law of Compensation, Or Karma, is the Giving and Taking, "Exchange" of the Chemistry Table, held together by Gods Word. You Witness This Exchange and Take part in it, from here we "derive logic" because we have Perspective of Objective Creation that we have not ourselves Created, Logic would lead one to Deductive Reasoning, following this process backwards would lead you to a Creator, because duh, you are a part of Creation but you didn't make the Earth, Sun, Moon, Trees, Grass, Seed, Animals... Exc. Exc. 😉👍
You probably don't see much anyway
It is illogical to believe in Gods.
Who cares what you think Frank Turek? You don't know what logic is.