Are Japanese / English subtitles bad? | Japanese analysis!
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
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And this is 100% the reason I am learning Japanese. I am so tired of bad dubs and subs. I want to know exactly what they said with the proper intent and meaning. or at least as close as i can get.
Another fellow learner out of spite glad I am not the only one.
Especially with all the woke political tampering going on these days.
@@southcoastinventors6583 It started with some anime that annoyed me with the dubs, so I switched to subs. Then I realized I bet the subs aren't accurate either. That is when I started learning Japanese. I started in November 2023. I practice every day. It is hard; not going to lie about that. I still watch with subs, but it's great when I can translate what I heard before I read it... even better when I say, "Hey, that's not what they said!"
@@michaelirwin7258 I use language reactor with duels subs using machine translation. Plus Netflix with VPN set to Japan.
Especially anime with a lot of subtext that can only be gotten from understanding not just the exact words but the way those words are spoken. The AOT rewatch was crazy for me.
Once, while watching a Marvel movie with my family in Mexico, the subtitles were so wrong they changed the whole scene. I had to explain to my family what was really said. I still remember the first time I noticed wrong subtitles, it was such a crazy feeling. I hope to reach that level of understanding in Japanese someday.
That's kind of sad since Spanish is far easier to localize especially for a blockbuster
Okay now that I'm watching this... I see how 彼女 (her; girlfriend) as just "her" might work as she's telling her mother that "She" was the one that was my girlfriend. I'm in the middle on this part now.
That translation only makes sense if you're learning japanese because you have the added context. I think "she was my girlfriend" would be better for english natives. Maybe it's time we invent new subtitles specialized for language learners. I've been thinking about this for awhile now, although niche, I think many would appreciate it.
You were right, it's definitely supposed to be "girlfriend". The last "私の" is clearly that thing where Japanese clarify the sentence afterward. And there's no context for it to be translated as "her" in the subtitles.
Hello 👋
I’ve been subscribed to you for a long time, though haven’t commented anything yet, to my remembering.
This is truly shocking for me, like if it wasn’t for you, I’d have never thought of it, although it is evident that they say a sentence of several words and there are just couple words in the subtitles.
So far I’ve seen your first videos of basic Japanese and numbers. You make it so clear, entertaining and simple that everyone must feel, at least I do, how easy it is to learn Japanese, even though it is said to be difficult, which I dare to say is a matter of individual perspective, but still.
Btw, I also bought, so far, your first Japanese from zero workbook.
Absolutely amazing!! I definitely wanna continue learning Japanese language and bought the rest of your books.
Greetings and much love to you, your family and your massive community.
As someone who’s been studying for around half a year who isn’t fluent but knows enough to not have to glue my eyes to the bottom of the screen, watching anime/any Japanese media is very awkward right now. I’m in this state of needing the subtitles while also often being able to recognize when those subs don’t capture the intended meaning or are just plain off.
I have a tip for you try using language reactor with machine translations it not perfect but it gives you dual subtitles that are from a far less biased machine also does furigana and you can export a pdf of the episode also use a VPN to access the Netflix library .
This is a great video on the limitations of just trusting in subtitles. I'm glad you showed this.
I realized just how inaccurate/lazy/rushed/lacking subtitles were like a year into learning Japanese. The biggest revelation was watching Terrace House on Netflix. There were times where the translator heard a full sentence as a completely different sentence, and it completely changed the back and forth dialogue for 4 straight sentences after. When I went back and read the subtitles without listening to the actual Japanese, the subtitles were complete nonsense to anyone who was just reading the English. Which, obviously they would be, they were trying to fit around a completely wrong understanding of the Japanese they were supposed to be equivalent to. The translator(s) even completely ruined a joke that was carried throughout an entire episode by the hosts of the show. The rest of the subtitles referencing it didn't make any sense because they mistranslated the first joke.
It's pretty weird to know that anyone who doesn't speak Japanese would misunderstand or completely miss major things in the show. Or misunderstand two people's relationship like with your example here.
I remember an episode where they're watching a film and the subtitle gets the name of the film wrong. Lol
which Terrace house was this ?
@@nihongojousu Tokyo 2019-2020. Boys and Girls in the City was a bit better.
@@nihongojousu Tokyo 2019-2020
Tokyo 2019-2020
Greetings from Florida
日本語は、日本人でも完璧に理解している人は少ないです。
海外出身の人で、日本人より正しい日本語を話す人もいますが、尊敬と共に、日本人である私は恥じ入ってしまいます。
Glad to see you are covering this topic George. 😎🌵
How have you been GLACEON 😊?
@uzhukova I've been alright. How have you been Ulyana? 😎
This video is very interesting and useful.
Thank you very much!
I just started to watch Shows like Liar Game in Japanese with English subtitles to practice my listening skills and now I'm worried that i'm learning a lot of wrong translations
Really just need to look up things from time to time. There is a lot of value in just watching alone. Don't get too worried about 100% accuracy.
I think bad English dubs/subs are a great motivator to learn Japanese I actually thank the localizers. Also most video games are bad too. Please do more but do a different one next time also glad to see you branch out from dancing to music video producer great range.
Interesting analysis! I still have to rely a lot on subs, but even just comparing subs vs dubs this kind of thing always bothers me! A recent one I remember happened with the dub of the anime movie "Josee, The Tiger & The Fish." In one scene character#1 asks character#2 if they can pick them up on their last day in the hospital. In Japanese according to subs, character#2 dodges the question and just says they're so happy (relieved I think), and leaves. Then a long shot of character#1 looking confused at the unanswered question. But in the English dub they AGREE TO MEET THEM. And now it makes no sense for character#1 to look so confused as the other leaves, and character#2 is now a liar! It bugs me, but I guess it is interesting how much slight changes can completely change the storytelling.
この場合、「けがして」は「怪我して」ではなく「汚して」だと思いますよ😊
そんな読み方があるって知りませんでした
It's very close. The mother said "汚（けが）したら" at 27:02. But I know you wanted to point it out. 27:27 is wrong.
@@masayama1618 あっ、ホントですね。うっかりしてました😅
心の中でずっと怒鳴ってたんだw
The other way around also annoys me. I live in Japan, and whenever I watch western movies, they're always either dubbed or subbed with Japanese caption. I always prefer the latter since I understand English quite well. Most of the time the translation are good, but quite often I can see some weird translations and those really annoying for me. LOL
helloooo, im learning japanese with the japanese from zero series and I've only reached lesson 5 from the first book (i thought commenting here would get me a higher reply chance 😅) and everything is going absolutely great i love it ao far! but my only problem is that im not able to memorize vocabulary, some words I've heard in shows and songs do stick in my head, but most words just disappear seconds later, any tips pleaseeee 😊
Honestly, until 4:08 I was on board with the subtitles. I don't think translating 残念だったわね literally is a good choice here. Yes, it does mean something like "It was unfortunate, wasn't it" but that wouldn't be appropriate to say in English. It sounds sarcastic.
"I'm sorry" is a better translation in this context. She's not taking blame for anything, as you implied. It's more a "I'm sorry for you". Expressing her sympathy.
The whole 彼女 "her" thing does seem a bit odd, I will admit. But I wouldn't necessarily call it wrong. The Japanese sentence is ambiguous, which is only resolved once we get to 私の. I don't know the full context, only what was shown in this video until that point, but I guess they wanted to keep the ambiguity.
Now... how the F you get from いちからやり直すのよ to "Be clean"... not a clue. I do agree that that is bullshit.
I have a follow up video coming.
the difference between interpretation and translation. Most subtitles are interpreted not translated so learning the words is difficult that don't always match.
I watch a lot of shows on Viki and MyAsianTV and I may not know a ton of Japanese but I do know that some of the translations are horrible. The one that drives me crazy is when they translate
いただきます as "Let's dig in!" or "I'm digging in!" I absolutely hate that!
great video, using the whole sentences to learn is the best way, I think
I think there are probably lots of demands when it comes to localization and they do the best job they can under the circumstances.
Hey George what’s your opinion on learning using Japanese subtitles only with Japanese media (etc. Japanese subtitles) when you’re at an intermediate level?
U should do more of those george, might as well do anime
So mad i missed this stream
The song at the end !! I 大好き it !!
The Britney Spears line was 素敵 ！
any chance of having it on spotify ?
I was REALLY wondering when someone would get to that point in the video!
@@PolyglotGeorge I did and enjoyed the hell out of it.
どもありがとうごさいます for this
and for everything you do !
Stuff like this makes me feel like I’m being gaslit into accepting that I’m hearing things incorrectly according to the subtitles.
What plugin are you using to write japanese?
In Windows or Mac you just need to add a keyboard layout through system settings. I think in Windows it's Microsoft IME also, something like that, for the kanji suggestions. You can also add different language keyboards on your phone.
I have a video on this channel for Japanese keyboards. ua-cam.com/video/1scr5J45hUE/v-deo.htmlsi=AZ8C1yVnz91O2_ef
i really enjoyed this one, レッスンをありがとう(hope i said it right)
Any chance you can become the Netflix chief translator? Sounds/looks like they need one. Shiori looks younger than 31 😮 Namae wa nani heading for the top 40 👍
Actually, I have no patience to learn a new language. So I still.choose to use Immersive Translate to help me translate video subtitles or something else 😂
The more I learn in my target languages the more I notice that the subtitles often don't entirely match what is being said and it confuses me a bit.
I'm only a minute into the video and I've gotta say something. In English, people use "I'm sorry" ALL THE TIME to express sympathy along the lines of "that was unfortunate" just as you said. I'm sorry, I'm sorry about that, I'm sorry that happened, etc. Is that not exactly what is happening here?
I'm going to make a follow up to this video and address this. But long story short, I don't think the intent of the mother was "I'm sorry". I think she didn't have any healthy feelings but really just thought "Unfortunate for you."
I know Shiori Kutsuna from live action adaption of detective conan.
That song, LOL!
yoo i fucking love you man
who's in charge of doing the subs for these shows? I keep seeing this done to so many shows/movies now and it needs to stop. We need better translators
Imagine being the guy who translated this, nobody will ever notice if I make mistakes, and even if they do it won't be that bad... Right? 👀Lol
Don't think it was a mistake, rather made the translation westernized for a western audience.
@@英語わかりませんexactly what I was thinking.
@@英語わかりませんNo, it's bad. Some of the complaints and lack of knowledge of the video's author surprise me, though. Obviously you don't directly translate every word, and the fact he doesn't know the word 汚す surprised me.
@@Ohrami But it can be both at the same time. I don't agree with it, nor find the translation any good, but don't think that they are mistakes per se, more like they were put there for a reason.
Maybe in in anime komi dont know comunikate Is correct
Ye And in internet Is how well And Fast learn Japanese use Netflix anime in Japan audio + jp subtitles And audio And subtitles not correct sometimes Is correct but form 1000 letters Is 1 correct So
みっちゃん > 蜜ちゃん > Mitsu-chan > Honey-chan...At least the translator knew "mitsu" doesn't necessarily refer to flower nectar but any other sweet substance. This way Mike becomes "microphone guy", Jim becomes "macho boy", and of course Dick becomes
She’s cute
Ah yes thank you for the knowledge and the spoilers :D
Subtitleを読んでいる事が悪いそうよ。笑😂 it’s so ridiculous
I am not that good at Japanese but I know enough to not trust subtitles.
I hate it when bilinguals with very little translation experience themselves try to point out what is "wrong" with subtitles, as if subtitles are supposed to be learning aids for language learners. They always approach it from the point of view that, "my interpretation is the only valid interpretation." The fact is there are as many interpretations to a foreign-language script as there are translators. There are a lot of ways you can arrive at a translation that any single translator won't think of, and lots of nuances that one translator may prioritize that another translator would feel is absolutely unimportant.
The general rule for whether a translation can be used for a line should be, "can you get there from here?" In other words, if there is a way to interpret the original sentence in such a way that you can arrive at the translated sentence, then you should cut the translator some slack.
Examples:
You can translate "Zannen datta ne" as "I'm sorry," if one character is trying to console another. If one hears that someone's loved-one has recently died, the term, "I'm sorry" is often used in English. It doesn't necessarily mean that the speaker is responsible or is apologizing.
"Sweetheart" would probably be an attempt to translate the "-chan" part of "Mi-cchan." The translator ignores the girl's name, which doesn't quite sit right with me, but the translator obviously wanted to prioritize the familial relationship between the two over the girl's name. Not a mistake. A decision. (Not the one I'd make, but again, "you can get there from here.")
"How could you say such a thing," is perfectly reasonable for the context. There was accusation in the voice, and, "How could you" comes out as more accusatory than "why," when written in text.
Okay, the translation of "kanojo" as "her" is a mistake. The word can mean either "her" or "girlfriend" and the translator chose the wrong one for the context. But at this point, I wouldn't go to accusing the translator of being homophobic. It's possible, but it's far more likely (at this point) that whoever translated it chose the wrong definition. Maybe there are more clues in there, but at this point, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
This is getting annoying for me, so I won't continue with the video, but I suggest you have someone go over your translation the way you did this one (in a way where you can't argue back, such as in a video). It may change your perspective on whether someone else's translation is good or not. By the way, I've had my translations unfairly picked apart, and that's why I'm writing this comment. That experience changed my perspective on how I judge the translations of others. It made me realize how arrogant I was in assuming I was an expert and knew what was best for any translation (when I actually only knew what was best for me).
And to anyone else, don't expect subtitles to cater to your language learning. That isn't what they are meant for.
Wow, thanks for your comment! As someone who studied translation (albeit for a short while) and is learning Japanese, reading this was really insightful.
I like how you say the translator has to make a decision. I think it’s a good way to describe it.
Whenever I watch anything in Japanese that has subtitles, I notice these things too. My first reaction is to say: ‘that’s wrong, it’s not what they said’.
But it’s not just about translating the language… but the meaning and nuances which can be tricky
So I can see where both you and George are coming from.
Jeorge here has a lot of experience translating/teaching Japanese, he is not just any bilingual !!
You really should've watched more of this video, as he himself admits that it is kinda necessary ( 6:38 ) to change things so that English sounds good.
also , it really feels like this sub was kinda subpar
@@nihongojousu He certainly acts like a teacher. But what's he translated? It took me about three years of professional translation experience to start to stop being so damn judgemental of other translator's viewpoints and priorities.
I'm sorry. I watched as much as I could possibly stomach of him either stating or implying that translation decisions were mistakes. As much as I saw of the video, the only actual outstanding mistake was "kanojo." But he had pointed out a dozen or two "mistakes" that really weren't.
I'm sure there were more mistakes in that movie. But as an anime fan as well as having worked as a translator professionally, I have seen a HUGE load of translations, and 99.something percent of professionally translated shows are just fine. Some are inspired. Some less so. A small percentage have bad mistakes, and a tiny, tiny fraction of a percentage of them have translators inserting their own political views in there. (That complaint is waaaaay overblown considering the plethora of human-translated Japanese entertainment we have today.)
But a line-by-line analysis of a badly subtitled film is not an overview of how good or bad subtitles are overall. (And that's the point, right? Are Anime Subtitles Bad? is the name of the damn video.) Subtitles are not intended for language learners, but the translations of nearly everything I watch are just fine.
@@kaguya6900 He is a teacher there is no doubt on that, he has authored several books which teaches languages ( Japanese , Korean ), and he also teaches Japanese through this UA-cam channel too.
I guess he worded the title provocatively, cause that's what get views in this day and age. And, someone who's coming across his videos for the first time might take it otherwise (might think he is bad naming all the Japanese subs) , because this channel is about learning Japanese, he speaks in that perspective ( how good / bad are these subs for learning Japanese, though I think he might have chosen a really bad example, or just stumbled upon these while watching and thought of making a video )
When I was watching the video, I was not thinking about the translations as whole ( are all Japanese / English subtitles bad ) I was just there to see what he has to say.
He worked as a professional translator for businesses ( the kind which do real time translations ) so I think he might be a bit biased on that front ( translating as close as possible ).
I really respect you for putting your views here, and also for working as a translator. I agree with the "they are not intended for language learners" part.
Putting stuff aside, are you a non-native? If so, how did you came about learning Japanese ? I really wanna learn it (cause of Anime), so some tips would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
You are being very judgmental by the way. Maybe reflect on your words as I have reflected on yours... here is my reply:
ua-cam.com/video/Nk3wy-uxqK4/v-deo.html
The titles/subtitles are good because there are hard of hearing or deaf people who need them to know what is going on.
I’m not saying subtitles are a bad thing. I’m saying they are inaccurate and can lead to a different story.
@@japanesefromzero there was a big deal about Avengers Infinity War, Dr Strange says "we're in the end game now?" But in Korea is was translated as "we're all done for/we're all dead"
George: I'm translating a song and I've come upon this kanji 卍, and the only definition that comes up is definitely not what the song is about. Any help? It come sup twice.
巡らされた 卍 の 企図 が
熟し 落ちた 卍 の 屍
Edit: That kanji usually means, good fortune or good luck pronounced as manji(or swastika)it's a symbol used in a lot of places, but fun fact, Indian uses this symbol the most, can be seen in temples and other religious places, but idk if it has any other meaning, swastika is really important symbol in buddhism and other that i forgot, this symbol can be seen in a lot of countries that have buddhism and hinduism, it originated from india im pretty sure
@@SrinceSaju I'm sure it's called まんじ but I would have to do a bit more research.
@@PolyglotGeorge yeah manji 卍 it means good fortune or good prosperity I'm pretty sure, idk if they mean that in the song or not
@@PolyglotGeorge yea, it's まんじ int he song but the meaning is what's confusing. It's not even in my dictionary and online I just get swastika as the definition and it's definitely not that. Song about the loss of a lover called 誰が為に
@@SrinceSaju So then maybe 熟し 落ちた 卍 の 屍
means: good lucks fallen corpse? Which I think fits with the song. Its about the loss of a lover. The 1st one has got me pulling out my hair. lol
巡らされた 卍 の 企図 が秘匿された 大儀 を 告げる
good lucks intention surrounds tells
concealed ceremony
but I can't figure out how to make it sound natural.
Am I first ?
No. 😂lol. (Yes)
It seems so, congratulations! This is probably going to really make your day!