Louis Rossmann: "Modern companies treat their customers like adversaries rather than partners" because "you get a worse experience as a paying customer than pirating"
With respect Louis, they don't treat customers like 'adversaries.' That almost sounds like equals. They treat us like serfs, chattel bondage. Not allowed to complain, or leave. I haven't used Photoshop in years. My air gapped 2016 2018 v software MacBook Pro still runs Lightroom and Illustrator 5.5 but Photoshop had stopped working already. But let me guess. 8 years later, all the things that were annoying then are still annoying. Illustrator: the ever shrinking cursors (as screen resolution increases), Lightroom - it loses links to files, says it's lost, but can't even remember what harddrive it last connected to that file on. 6:52 and there it is! 14 years and they've never fixed that. Unf*ing believable. They should be ashamed. The reason they don't fix this, and why that useless Web module is still in the program is probably because none of their current coders know the kernel (code) well enough to find that part and change it. Same thing happened with the iPhone after its first couple of iterations. The original coders burned out from overwork and moved on. (I think this is in "The One Device: The Secret History of the iPhone by Brian Merchant.) I think they had to rewrite it in order to move forward. iTunes was like that for a while. So people have been paying subscriptions for 'updates' that except for a few minor things aren't even possible. I'll never give Adobe another nickel. At this point the best thing to do is find replacements, turn our backs on Adobe and never look back.
That's 100% true, but it's worse than that. Watch Louis Rossmann's video titled "why I use the R word to describe manufacturers with no regrets". These companies (including Adobe) have a rapist mentality. Also watch his recent video titled "Disney creates the best argument for piracy in a century".
That's 100% true, but it's worse than that. Louis Rossmann's video titled "why I use the R word to describe manufacturers with no regrets" and "Disney creates the best argument for piracy in a century" really show how sick these sleazy companies really are. Adobe is just one of them.
That's 100% true, but it's worse than that. Louis Rossmann's video titled "why I use the R word to describe manufacturers with no regrets" and "Disney creates the best argument for piracy in a century" really show how sleazy these companies are. It's not just Adobe.
I left Adobe 2 month ago after using it for more than 20 years. Today I am using Capture One as alternative to Lightroom, Affinity Photo as alternative to Photoshop and DaVinci Resolve as alternative to Premier Pro. I am extremely happy.
DaVinci Resolve is vastly superior to Premier Pro...and it's FREE. Hell, even the paid version is only 300 bucks - ONE TIME - for a lifetime license. I still pay the 10 bucks a month for PS and LR, though. Once they raise the price on that, I'm gone.
Capture one was where I was thinking of going, but the License agreement explicitly states that by uploading content to any of the Cloud Services provided by Capture One, the Licensee (you) represents and warrants that you own and control or have the unconditional right to upload the content to the Cloud Services (1). Additionally, you represent that you have obtained all necessary third-party rights and permissions to upload and use such content (2). By uploading content, you grant Capture One a royalty-free, perpetual right and license to host, reproduce, distribute, display, perform, manipulate, synchronize, create derivative works of, and otherwise use the images or other content uploaded to the Cloud Services as necessary to provide the services and enable you to use the features of the Cloud Services (3). However, you retain ownership and control of your images. Capture One does not claim ownership of the images uploaded by you, but it does have the right to use them to provide the Cloud Services as outlined in the agreement (4). Not sure it's any better, but I haven't looked too deeply into the matter (yet)
I teach photo in a high school. Every student has an Adobe account paid for by the school. Adobe has access to all of the student's creative works without their individual consent. This is a problem.
Schools are also part of the problem. Same reason why they host Microsoft Windows/Office. Then they complain about the BSOD. Plenty of viable and sometimes even better alternatives to the mega-corporation applications.
We used to use Adobe in our school, we dumped them and changed to affinity suite, they never missed it as affinity is easy to adjust to. The school saves over $10k AUD per year now and EVERY student (we have over 1400) can use it at school and at home, staff also. With Adobe we had to pay for so many seats, no limits with affinity. Money saved for other things such as cameras and other hardware.
T: "After 25 years it's time for me to switch." C: "You're not gonna even give them a chance?" OMG Chelsea, what chance has Adobe NOT had to respect their users and engage in ethical business? This subscription model has been going on for more than a decade, and their business practices have steadily pivoted away from creative-centric toward the interests of their stock holders.
It is why corporations are created and why they exist and thrive. In the laisser faire world of business, in the 'democratic world', the shareholder rules. Let us suppose that the board of directors of Adobe sent a questionnaire to the shareholders asking them "If we go to a subscription system we forecast increased revenue. The users of out products will like object to this and some may not take up a subscription. After a year or two the subscription system will be all that many users have ever known. Do you approve of the subscription system or should we retain the 'buy outright' model? The phrase 'no brainer' is apt in this case.
@@nikiroberts1366 :^/ I'm sure there are still a few large corporations that stubbornly cling to the customer-based values that made them big in the first place. But clearly the trend in boardroom politics is to separate business policy from product & customer priorities. It's nothing new, but it's still disheartening to see client-focused companies "turn" this way.
Adobe treatment of its customer base is awful. How about a couple of vlogs for us? 1. A step be step by step instructional on how to suspend an Adobe subscription. 2. A review of the three better alternatives to Adobe [that are not subscription-based]. 3. How to contact the FTC and your Congressional Rep on stopping Adobe's egregious market place conduct.
The biggest problem with switching away from Adobe is that over the decades they've consistently bought out almost all significant competition. In all the years the U.S. government was going after Microsoft, Apple, Google, and others for monopolistic practices Adobe was always far worse and nothing was ever done. Even Photoshop wasn't developed in-house.
@@WarKrieg That doesn't describe capitalism at all. It describes human nature. Progressive lay multiple faults at the feet of capitalism. But every single one of them has nothing to do with capitalism. Communism, OTOH, would be great, except for the fact that all the same faults can be found in it. Why? Because communist economic systems are run by people, and human nature causes people with their own interests in mind to take control and make things better for themselves. The same occurs in capitalistic economic systems. Has nothing to do with the system per se. It's the people who run it. Now, to say what I actually came here to say (and it is related): "They are always making themselves sound noble while doing crappy things." Sounds like the government. ANY government. It's all good for you, whether you appreciate it or not. At least we can cancel our subscriptions with Adobe.
adobe's client for over 10 years now to their sub service.. after the big drama I cancelled my sub for the first time and it was a pain and an half.. not counting the cancelling fees I didn't see coming whatsoever. That was really the last straw for me. Not only am I paying monthly for a software that doesn't require any monthly fees, but lately the product has been terribly stale for me, so why am I paying for nothing to happen, no new actually good features etc? And the privacy part is just such a big no no, the moment I was aware of this is when I jumped onto their website to cancel. I take photos of interiors of yachts for some of the wealthiest people on earth, and as you can imagine, those photos are NOT supposed to be out in the wild. the fact that adobe can decide to look at them, leak them or whatever is just such a massive red flag, never again am I paying for a subscription model for my photo and video needs, NEVER. Thanks for nothing adobe, I hope you disappear.
Please do a show about Lightroom replacements. There are many replacements for Photoshop but I have never found a replacement for Lightroom and that's what keeps me tied to Adobe.
@@agahaXie It doesn't have the same easy to use cataloging features (edit metadata, search for specific meta data, rename files, etc). Lightroom makes all that easy. Capture One does a great job of editing and processing images but if you have to manage 100K+ images, good luck.
I hate, hate, hate any company that makes it difficult for you to cancel. If I see one complaint about this from other people, I will not use their product. It should be called theft and charges pressed when someone can't cancel a subscription. Your bank account should never be held hostage by any company. Adobe, Amazon, and Apple you sure can do better and I will not use your company until you do. The cancel button should be on the front page and not hidden under tons of pages. I shouldn't have to go to internet to find out how to cancel a subscription. Let's get honest for a change.
The last time I cancelled a Patreon subscription, it required an Internet search. It's standard practice to make it difficult to cancel; the hope is that you'll give up, especially (in the case of Patreon) if the subscription is for a small amount of money.
I share your dislike. However, you should have to go to the internet to find out how to cancel. But it should not be buried in a distant web page. And the option to call a live person should be given.
@@yeohi A cancel subscription button should be on the front page and visible. To hide it on back pages that you have to wade through or go to internet to try to find out from other people how they canceled is not a good business practice It's deceptive and it's getting worse with these companies.
Anyone who thinks Adobe, run by executives who've never been creatives, cares about creatives other than how much money they can suck out of their bank accounts.... is completely delusional. What's sadly hilarious is their mindset is "We'll tell you what you want/need. Also, you want us to eliminate your job and you'll like it."
@@yajlemag1 That may be, but how much do you need that 'database'? It's just a folder structure by another name with some fancy stuff attached to it. Fancy stuff that you can do without, quite happily. Use folders and an editing app.
I thought I would do the same. Affinity was well reviewed and I had high hopes. Then, over the course of two days, I watched vids of the use of the new 'Removal' tool in LrC. All demonstrating it concluded with the word I myself thought appropriate - astonishing. I recomend watching Terry Vander Heiden's review. Note that the tool is not completely foolproof in some instances, and will doubtless be improved, as the tool in LrC 13.3 is 'beta' I then watched an Affinity reviewer use the Affinity 'removal' tool. He 'removed' 4 offending objects from an image. Each object required at least 3 steps before giving a result that the reviewer considered satisfactory, although the final results did vary, object to object. I have been using the last of LR's 'buy outright' - V6 - because I did not want, could not afford, the sub system. But now I find I can have LrC + PS [for which I have no use, especially with this amazing removals tool now in LrC] for GBP9.99/month. LrC has come a long way since V6. The masking tools, for example. Even as a pensioner on slim pickkins I can afford that. I will take the LrC sub because it is clear that LrC has taken a giant step up and away from Affinity.
I am very glad you made this video. Many of us complained about the adobe subscription model (when it first came out). Our primary concerns were a) not owning the software, b) difficulty in cancelling the subscription, and c) the lack of meaningful upgrades and improvements to the software. That was our warning to you and it was scoffed. Now you are finally seeing our point. Thank you!
I solved that problem the minute that Adobe decided to go the subscription route. It was obvious to me that this was not in my favor. I bought the last version of PS that was a permanent licence and have been using it ever since. It does everything I need and I believe that all pros were doing just fine with that version, so it's good enough. Let's face it, after 40 years of professional work, I have never felt that digital trickery was that crucial to the essence of my images. Adobe banks on upgrade-a-nitis and FOMO to sucker consumers into their little game. There are other options and people who want to do something about it can. If enough people come to their senses, Adobe will as well. Nothing like the power of consumers to curtail corporate greed.
Agree completely and with @porkpie2884. I am still running CS4 - does everything I need. I have replaced adobe camera raw with Raw Therapee which is way better and free!! It wont deal with some of Sony's compressed raw files but I prefer to use uncompressed raw only so no issue for me.
Well said. I use Affinity Photo 2 and that's all I need for my pics. One payment, that's it. And until today, I use less than half of the options there.
I did the same thing and that was fine for about 8 years until I needed a new Mac and the old CS Suite wouldn’t work anymore, also had issues swapping Indesign files with clients so eventually subscribed to cc… I hate this model, totally in their favour so would love to see a fairer alternative emerge in the way that Adobe usurped Quark, but now THEY have the monopoly they’re just as self serving
I have that same version on my laptop…. And you are missing soooooooo much. It’s cheaper to pay per month than it ever was for a subscription you needed to pay to update.
Update costs were only comparable if you did do every year. I used to have the suites and would update every 3 years - about £400-££500, so about £150 a year, subscription now costs me about £500 every single year :(
I bought an Adobe 5 suite because it made it easier to do my homework AT HOME. I really enjoyed Adobe products. But, after getting my degree, and not being able to find a job in my field, I could NOT afford to pay for their new subscription plan. I continued to work with my suite as long as possible, then found Serif's products. VERY similar to Photoshop, InDesign, and Illustrator. I bought Serif's Affinity suite for an amazing $89.00 during a sale, and have not had to pay for any updates, nor do I need to use the Cloud for storing my work. That's the other thing I dislike about Adobe - I want MY work on MY computer (or other storage device), and NOT be open to being stolen from the Cloud. Tony, if you really are interested in changing, give the Affinity products a try.
Well said. I use Affinity Photo 2 and that's all I need for my pics. One payment, that's it. And until today, I use less than half of the options there.
These continuing problems are the result of Adobe having a monopoly on creative programming. There needs to be viable competition or Adobe will just tell you what you get instead of the consumer telling them what they want.
Previous with no subscriptions the user could take time to evaluate the new version and decide if it was worth upgrading. With subscription model this evaluation (which is very important for the evolution of the software by natural selection) is gone …
Thank you for speaking out about this. So many people, including myself, are oblivious to how our data is used. A standalone camera, disconnected from the internet, can create a false sense of security regarding photo privacy after editing.
It's not just that Adobe went went with a subscription model, so many others have. It's that they acted out all the dark patterns that make so many of us leery of subscription models when they did. Thank you Tony and Chelsea for amplifying the voices of so many of us who can do little more than cancel our subscriptions.
In 2024, if someone orders a SAAS product without using a custom-generated Visa/Mastercard number for each transaction, they’re asking for trouble. I log into the Citi Double Cash dashboard and create a custom number, naming it something like “Adobe Scammers,” and cap it at $30/month. This way, even if they raise the rate, the charge will be denied. I also never use my real name; I always use the name of the company in the purchase agreement. So, Adobe has my name as “Adobe Photoshop,” which completely negates any privacy concerns regarding the supplied billing information. If I want to cancel, I never submit to the nonsense in their TOS. Instead, I simply set the custom card limit to $1 or cancel it entirely, leaving Adobe in a hamster wheel trying to figure out how to bill themselves. We live in a world where you can’t just provide your details and credit card information anymore.
Privacy is another company you can use and decide which bank you want to attach the virtual card to. You then name the virtual card for whatever you use, ie, your gas bill, the electric bill, Adobe, etc. It generates 1 card for each. You then set the limit on it and if you don't want to pay anything then put it at $0 to $1, etc.
Hi guys, I haven't used Adobe in about 4 years now. I switched to Affinity photo 2 and absolutely love it. This is a great alternative if you're on the fence with Adobe!
After the latest scandal this year, I decided to cancel my subscription with Adobe. A few days before the annual payment, I changed my credit card number and canceled my contract. It wasn't difficult to cancel (I imagine they had already made changes to that process because of the lawsuits) but on the due date and despite having canceled the annual plan, they tried to charge the fee. For now, I'm already with Affinity Photo and I don't know if I'll go back to Adobe, I don't know if I'll trust such a mean company again.
The primary purpose of corporations is not to serve consumers but to make oligarchs who own controlling interests incredibly wealthy and to rip off consumers in the process.
Although you’re not wrong in practice you forgot to mention that corporations are legally bound to increase the dividends for their shareholders. And yes, I understand that the oligarchs and CEO’s are all shareholders. 😅
@@titovalasques If only oligarchs and CEO's obeyed the laws we would not have corporations ripping off people in so many ways, VW would not have faked diesel engine test results, and Big Pharma would be producing medicines that cure people instead of producing stuff that only keeps you alive and dependant on more of their products. Do you know how you define a system where corporations and government unite? We no longer have corporations or government looking out for the population, it is all about super-wealthy heartless criminals/globalist oligarchs getting even wealthier and more powerful.
That's capitalism for ya !!! But it's more than that with these global monopolies with complicated user agreements and dirty tricks. I hope this is a backlash.
Thank you for this. I was a 1st gen Lightroom purchaser, and have subscribed continuously since then. A couple of years ago, i decided that my photo library would be forever lost if i stayed in Lightroom. That is, my family would never get access to the 100k plus photos I’d taken. So, i swallowed hard, and rolled everything into Apple Photos. Guess what? My family is totally in to sharing photos with me, tagging the photos I’ve shared, etc. For sharing alone, Apple Photos wins. The ease of the eco system with respect to photos is insane. And, their AI, facial recognition, etc. is best in class. That said, what I miss is soft proofing for printing. I keep Lightroom for Soft Proofing and printing only (even tho it hasn’t been updated, as you said, in 10 years). Is there a good alternative to Lightroom for soft proofing and printing only?
I am a hobbyist and was happy with CS4. But when I upgraded my computer, I could not use it as activation servers were no longer there. Instead of going to subscription, I just opted for Capture One Pro perpetual license.
When I saw that "skip the photo shoot" bit in their ad, I was SO mad! I mean, you are telling photographers, who are a huge part of your clientele, to just make up stuff? Because it's just easier? Who thought this was a good marketing strategy? 🤬
I started replacing Adobe about a year ago - full disclosure… I am NOT a professional - and I have stuck with DXO Photolab as my favorite Lightroom replacement (Keep pictures on local drives, no subscriptions) and Affinity Photo (again, no cloud storage, unless you want that & one time buying option) as a Photoshop replacement and I have been pleased with both so far!
Same here. Been using DxO myself since version 1 and I am happy to purchase their annual update year after year and I am now on version 7. I hope DxO will keep their pricing reasonable. From 6 to 7, there was quite a price jump.
Photolab requires an internet connection every 30 days or so in order to validate your license. It's essentially a subscription in disguise. I've switched away and moved to Darktable and after following several tutorials here on YT I got better results without being tied to any corporation.
I stopped buying Adobe products the day they started their subscription program. It took me a few more years to stop using Adobe products in my workflow, to give me the time to find replacement products. Today, I have completely cut Adobe out of my workflow and will never go back to their scam system. Finding replacement products and learning how to use them was a good learning curve, but listening to your video made me even more glad that I did it! And the same way, every other companies that switched to a subscription program had been removed from my computer.
I cannot believe you two are so calm about Adobe "reviewing inappropriate content." It is unconscionable. A person edits a personal image, now Adobe has a copy in their cloud, and can review it? And can do anything with it, include train their AI? I have never used photoshop for photos, I started with on1 at their start and they've just been getting better.
How about disconnecting your computer from the internet prior to working on possibly inappropriate content? I know that Adobe does not require 24/7/365 online connections (just random access to check licenses), so just wondering if going offline would be a workaround.
1. Subscription model 2. BUGGY SOFTWARES 3. Not caring about the actual users who are reporting the issues. 4. PRIVACY BREACH 5. Killing photographers and artists creative work via stealing their own artwork. Oh god... the list is growing! I love this video. Putting Adobe on the spot. I really think many more creators should make such videos and this topic should actually be so viral that they finally are forced to listen! Its so sad. Such a great software company going down this path.
I find it insane that my Ryzen 5800X build with 64GB of RAM tends to struggle to run Lightroom Classic but yet Adobe thinks that AI is the thing I need and not overall application stability and responsiveness. 🙄
@@Knowbody42 I would use Affinity Photo for my workflows, but I do a lot of event photography where I don’t really want to spend a ton of time on a photo which I feel Affinity Photo is geared for. After this year I do plan on switching to DaVinci Resolve, Affinity, and ON1 for my work as ON1 does support batch editing.
@@Knowbody42 it doesnt just feeç lighter and more stable. It is lighter and more stable. Lightroom classic is just a fucking mess, something I dont understand considering Photoshop on the other hand runs amazing
Adobe's software is built on old framework. For it to be as smooth as Affinity or Davinci, they would need to rebuild it from the ground up. I think this was the idea with the new Lightroom vs Lightroom Classic. I used the CapCut desktop app for the first time two days ago, and was surprised at the performance, especially compared to Premiere Pro. Sure, it's not as capable, but I can see it being enough for what most people need.
I am a 13-year Adobe customer who has relied primarily on Premiere, After Effects, and Photoshop over the years. Adobe is literally becoming the Galactic Empire of content creation. The fact that they are running more ads than ever while also raising their already-inflated prices really makes you think. I really really really hope they change soon-- if not, I can't wait to jump ship. $700+ EVERY YEAR hardly seems worth it.
Ironically, when people were complaining about them switching to the subscription model, they were called "broke", "hobbyists", "spoiled", "entitled", etc.... all over the net.
The biggest annoyance that isn't addressed here about the subscription model is that when you cancel, you can no longer use the software. That isn't like the old model of buying once and owning forever. If you've paid a subscription for over a year and decide to cancel, you should be able to continue on that release in-perpetuity.
@@vicfil1dxo pure raw 4. after using pure, you don’t touch adobe raw sharpening. After I’m done in Lightroom or camera raw I use the NIK Collection, pre sharpener and output sharpener plugin and get perfect details
I dumped Adobe about 5 years ago. I use a combination of other options with Affinity Photo being the main replacement tool. Where Affinity Photo lacks what Photoshop can do I use DXO Labs, Luminar Neo, and Topaz software to pick up the slack. I have not missed Photoshop at all.
I used to think that we in Germany had poor service, and that it was ten times better and more customer-oriented in America. But seeing how Adobe has been clearly showing its users for months what rights they actually have-none-and how indifferent they are to customer opinions, my view has changed. It’s simply a disgrace how customers' rights are trampled on, and how consumers are shamelessly exploited, all under the guise of customer service. If I worked at Adobe, I would be utterly ashamed, but it seems that most of those in charge only care about lining their pockets and couldn't care less about anything else.
That is capitalism. It was never about competition providing cheaper and better services for customers, it was always about making enough money to buy up the competition and then start making obscene profits from your monopoly. Modern capitalism is now at a point where the obscenely wealthy and mega corporations own our politicians and now have the power to do what they want and pay no meaningful tax - we are now heading further into the majority having no rights, no job security, no real access to the law, diminishing wages and no meaningful democracy - scary!
If large YT channels like yours would actually make the switch to Adobe alternatives, I think this would hurt Adobe the most and force them to make the necessary changes. After thinking for a while about this whole issue and watching videos from several other people, I decided to cut all ties to Adobe and switched to using Capture One and Affinity products. I can tell you that Affinity is so much faster than Photoshop! Capture One also has amazing features, including better color profiles for cameras, etc...
A former Adobe employee told me that internally they are completely driven by “business value”. If some suggests a product enhancement such as fixing a bug, the question will be what doing that is worth to the company. Here in Europe you can’t sell something that doesn’t exist, like the right use some for training of generative ai before that existed. But judges haven’t yet decided if such training is a case of copyright at all.
So is the ultra shallow depth of field when they do close up shots. It's already a meme and they keep doing it. One eyeball is in focus. Fucking great lmao.
They aren't listening. We (independent photographers) were never Adobe's profit center and they don't care what we have to say, never have. It's all about their shareholders and has been for decades. Their profits aren't coming from the photography market we represent. It comes from government, corporate, and academia contracts. Independent photographers are nothing to them. You're wrong to think it's been photographers who've built their business. It's almost funny listening to all your gripes. I was at this point 10+ years ago when they first announced the subscription model. It was so transparent. Just a profit maneuver without any concern for customer loyalty. I haven't sent them another penny since. I started from version 1.5 and sent my last $$$ to Adobe with CS6. Welcome to the Adobe reality. It's taken you a while to get here...
Exactly! Glad you pointed out the reality of revenue generation for most mega corporations. Multinationals care about consumers/people about as much as governments do, i.e., zero.
Yep, just like Autodesk telling us subscription was better for Autocad. Know what they did? They stopped major innovation, fired their feature developers, and now eliminated commissions for resellers. Then the sales people have the balls to request quarterly "customer quality calls" or whatever term they come up with, to help us maximize our efficiency. I tell them that when I am ready to inform them of how they can improve their tools to increase productivity, I will. The long term customers know more about the software than the parent company does. We don't wait for Autodesk to do anything, we write our own add-ons that are years ahead of their solutions. I don't know if Adobe's programs have powerful API's so that may not be a choice.
@@Whereisangelique As mentioned, I have CS6. It does pretty much all I need. More and more a LOT of my image prep/development work happens in Capture One (NO subscription required). I also use GIMP (free) on occasion. The vast majority of my work happens in Capture One, simple edits happen in GIMP, and the occasional involved composite/edit will happen in CS6.
Amen. Came to say the same thing. Plus the guy who develops it has a FANTASTIC UA-cam channel discussing features in extreme depth. His knowledge of colour science is excellent.
@@glengreenman3921 My recommendations for the channels with the best Darktable content: "Boris Hajdukovic" (@s7habo) and "Bruce Williams Photography" (@audio2u ).
The time Adobe really ticked me off is when the removed Creative Cloud Sync. And after they got rid of it completely, my subscription did not go down in price. They still charge me the same, and I was left fending for myself how to sync my large files between computers.
At this point, people continuing to stay with Adobe has become the problem. The solution is to find alternatives that work best for you and never come back to Adobe. This company has gone past the point of no return.
So glad you are speaking up on this. It's rife in music publishing / production, too. It's not sustainable for every company to go subs based. I mean with monthly costs for Internet, music streaming, TV channels, software, magazines, books, etc it would work out very expensive and I own nothing !! I, too, have been using Adobe since PS4.... they've had more than enough from me and forced me to a subs model. Which for my workflow / requirements are not worth the annual cost. Something else that has cropped up recently is I moved countries (Spain to UK) and I can't change my account to a UK based one without a lot of headaches around settings / libraries and account maintenance. (It's complicated) because the Spanish Adobe is a different entity to the UK based one. There are alternatives to Adobe now, thankfully. And I am looking to change as my account anniversary comes up. Shame.
Thank you for rmaking this video. Two things: Like others, I refuse to use Adobe anymore. Subscriptions are not sustainable for me and I find Adobe Creative Cloud very intrustive. I've uninstalled this software on all of my non-work computers. Second, I am merely a recreational photographer. I used to use Lightroom. Admittedly, I haven't looked to hard for a replacement, but I can't justify paying a monthly subscription for something that I do on the hobby level. If I were retired and I shot photos everyday, it may be a different story. I look forward to future videos where you review other photo processing software. Keep up the great work, you two are the best!
Me too, not sustainable in terms of your weakening exchange rate. They are obviously too clever to even remotely understand the concept of "exchange rate". I am happy with my current version of CS6, doing everything I needed to do!
So Adobe wants to grab all of your pictures to scan for "inappropriate content" but they won't proactively prevent people from inappropriately appropriating your name or brand?
I am an amateur photographer so this opened my eyes to some issues I had not considered, especially the fact that Adobe may be putting some of my images in the cloud. I specifically subscribed to Classic so my images would not leave my computer. The cancellation process is totally wrong! I wanted to try a product and decided not to buy, but missed the free cancellation deadline. When I did try to cancel after 2 months, I discovered I was going to be charged a cancellation fee equivalent to several months of the subscription yet immediately lose access to the product!!! How is that fair? Thanks, Chelsea for the link to complain since Adobe does not provide contact information.
Agreed. If I could buy the current version of Lightroom, understanding that upgrades were additional charges, I would seriously consider doing so. As I am not a professional who derives income from my photography, I can't justify a subscription.
And the worst part is: schools keep educating in Adobe. Ofcourse people can change the software program when they finish (photography) school. But I don't think school (in my country) educate and advocate enough for our privacy.
Prior to our school ditching Adobe, some staff complained that Adobe was the industry standard and how bad it would be if we did. I argued that Adobe wasn’t the standard when they started out and that they may never be in the future, things change. Anyway, within a month or two no one was missing Adobe, in fact affinity was/is easier to learn and the inbuilt stock made it much easier for students to grab images and vectors etc and use it in their work with ease. Money saved from their subscription meant we could put it to graphic tablets, cameras and lighting equipment etc, Adobe was too costly and limiting to cover all our students, affinity lets us cover the wool school inc staff for a third of the price. The suite does everything the students need and just like photoshop, they don’t even need half of the features anyway.
I use Adobe LRC and Photoshop on my 2TB 32GB Mac Mini 2. There came a point shortly after a mini upgrade that whenever I touched a brush, or mask, when using LRC, the dreaded beach ball hung around for a minute or two. Professional work schedules were compromised. I did all the expected housekeeping and clearing of memory, etc, re-installed my Adobe software. I even took my Mac into the Apple Store to have it checked over. The hardware was perfect. So, I arranged a phone call with Adobe. They did a screen share during which they uninstalled my CameraRAW version 16.* and installed CameraRAW version 14. Ever since then the performance of my computer editing using LRC and PS has been blisteringly quick. I’m now terrified to accept any upgrade offered by Adobe. The problems I have experienced with Adobe products for the past couple of years, and maybe more, due to very slow performance on high spec Macs, has interfered with my professional work to the point that I experiencing huge amounts of stress! And now AI - absolutely no thank you!
One of the worst things that has happened with Adobe is the expectation that their process is how you should document, use and create with a product. Adobe is not an “industry standard”. There are a lot of other options out there.
Indeed, much like people feel they can't do without a tech product without an apple logo on it. There are other ways, folks. You're just falling for the marketing spiel.
A lot of this could be resolved if the government was doing it's job on regulation and anti-trust protections. They are covering specific complaints about Adobe, but many of these complaints apply to any company that dominates a specific market - whether it's software, products, or service. As consumers we have the option to move on to other products, but often this means sacrificing features and/or usability.
Thanks for reminding me to cancel my subscription. I had the same problem. couldn't find any option to cancel a subscription and I'd eventually forget about it.
I stopped using Adobe Photoshop as soon as my original license ran out due to outdated technology. I had been using the product since the early 90's as a student. When they decided to go with the subscription model, it was obvious the writing was on the wall, and I walked away. There are plenty of alternative options out there, and it meant sometimes using more than one app to accomplish something, but it was clear Adobe was no longer interested in the consumer. I have never regretted the change. I'm just disappointed they changed at all, otherwise I would still be a customer. I applaud the Feds here and hope it leads to something positive not just with Adobe, but with other companies trying to work with the same business model.
Remember, Adobe is a business and as such, their only concerns is how to extract as much money as possible from people and spend a little money as possible to do so. The excuse is that their primary stakeholder is the stockholder, NOT the customer. Anything that increases profits is justifiable in the sake of making money. The products they sell and customer satisfaction are only applicable when they don't get in the way of #1.
It's pretty obvious that Adobe have no intention of listening to anyone's concerns about their actions or inactions over the years. The only way to make Adobe listen is to show them that you're leaving them and when enough people leave then they'll change or go bust. I was a long-term user of Adobe but finally after being fed up with them for a long while, I just moved elsewhere and haven't looked back. It made no difference to my creative process and saved me a ton of money.
recently cancelled one of my subscriptions, had to fight with the customer care executive for 45 mins to get it cancelled without a early closure fine that was nowhere mentioned while signing up. Adobe is definitely playing dirty, there is no question about that.
Only company to ever punish me for leaving them with a penalty, unbelievable. Went to affinity in the early days, the price was a no brainer and it’s not bloated either. Love the way you can jump between all the apps when using publisher.
16:18 im baffled by how many people who doesnt realize that using generative ai or any sort of ai based tech on photoshop means sending their images over to adobe and adding it to their database as learning data. they just see it as "cool, it did a thing" without thinking how it actually did the thing
Are you saying that most people don't use their critical thinking abilities that our schools have diligently and responsibly trained and nurtured for students? Shocked, I am. 🤣
Yet somehow their AI is still lagging so far behind the competition. But yes we know, but that battle is already lost. The AI image companies have all the data the need and ways to get more. Look at the music business, how streaming changed everything, same here 80% of profit will get sucked up by a few big companies. Better start learning a new trade, and better pick one that does not get eaten up by AI next.
I actually love the Adobe subscription model but I don't use Lightroom a bunch but the updates we get to Photoshop and Illustrator pretty often are things I really enjoy. It is insanely expensive though.
Hey, C&TN! LOVE the video and applaud your chutzpah in doing it. BRAVO!!! As to the subject matter, I've had it with Adobe after using Photoshop as long as you have, and PremierePro since v3. I'm in the process of moving my post efforts over to Resolve after working on it a while. So far, love it and getting closer every day to cancelling my CC subscription. It's given my editing flow a refreshing boost in terms of the intricacies of workflow. And I will replace PS with Gimp or Affinity or something, eventually. But I have ONE RANT regarding your video (very respectfully offered, honest!) because I noticed something that increasingly drives me nuts: Intimate (CU) off-axis cam shots of a speaker. UGGGHHHH! They are a scourge. Please don't use them anymore in your otherwise excellent editing! In the context of a speaker who's taking directly to ME (i.e., talking ON-axis to the camera in a CU shot), off-axis shots (8-12 degrees offset) rudely interrupt the one-to-one intimate connection that well-chosen shots establish, and good editing reinforces. It's like you're talking personally to me, as in a personal conversation where you've established that essential one-to-one link, and made valuable eye contact (which as you know is so key in these types of videos)... and then you suddenly turn your head and continue talking, but to someone standing immediately behind me and slightly to my left (or right) while you continue to talk. Eye contact broken. (Wait... I thought you were talking to me??). It's been increasingly common over the last handful of years on YT, and in corporate video as well. Some videos (not yours) use this technique so much, and so blatantly, that they're difficult to watch. I can't be the only person who finds this incredibly distracting. So... please don't let yourselves fall into that easy B-cam off-axis CU shot trap. You guys are clearly so much more talented than that and your videos are first-rate and always instructive. I KNOW you could come up with the types of shots and and editing that could demonstrate to all us of admittedly lesser talent (of which I am one) that it's possible to create a more compelling one-to-one on-axis CU and MCU shots without having the speaker suddenly shift their attention away from me, the "audience of one". [END OF RANT.] THANK YOU BOTH for creating some of the best and most well-informed content on YT! Keep up the superb work!
Their latest update -- where photoshop wouldn't even open -- was what did it for me. I had a project with deadlines, so I bought Affinity Photo 2 & Affinity Designer 2. Affinity doesn't have all the features that PS has, but it's pretty darn good, and it's not a subscription model, and it has some features that I really like over photoshop. Adobe now lets me open Photoshop again (whatever), so until I'm more familiar with Affinity, I'll keep using both. But for long term, I'm gone from Adobe.
You guys ROCK! I just shared this video on my professional media pages. I encourage all subscribers to this channel to do the same. You are our representatives in the most incredible way...thank you! Part II.....maybe offer yourselves to the attorneys handling the suit against Adobe to testify on our behalf, if and when this actually goes to court..BRAVO...I cant think of any serious creative that wouldn't contribute funding for you to do just that. Count me in....
Corel Draw package has always been light years ahead compared to Photoshop+Illustrator+Indesign together, and it was so easy to learn. Adobe software splitted features in 3 programs that could be included in 1 do-it-all software, beside that Adobe package I think it's one of the most counter-intuitive software I've ever seen.
agreed, looks like corel draw package etc will get popular again (nice to see somebody still actually own and use it, as i do, but i know this things, they talking about in video for years now). with multibillion companies like adobe, autodesk etc they for sure can and do invest big money in anti campaigns etc against competition. so its no surprise you keep hearing for years or even decades, how for example autocad, photoshop etc etc ( i can go to many others, but lets keep iz simple) is so superior to all the rest, while in reality its very close or in some cases even better with other brands.
I finally canceled my Adobe subscription when I discovered they were training their AI off users' photos. I use Capture One for Lightroom, Davinci Resolve for Premiere Pro, Affinity Photo for Adobe Photoshop, and PDF Xchange Editor for Adobe Acrobat. All are one-time payments!!!
Hahaha... poor Adobe users and their self-inflicted pain. Yesterday I downloaded version 19 of Davinci Resolve Studio. I originally bought Resolve way back when it was in version 14 and yesterday's update, like all the others, was 100 percent free of charge. Adobe, learn from a company that *knows* how to satisfy customers.
You realize black magic sells hardware, cameras, and many other products that earn tons of money that allow them to offer offer da Vinci resolve for free. Adobe does not have this model to rely on.
@@PlugInGuruVideo Who cares how BMD do it? Everyone benefits from the results so you'd have to be crazy to pay the Adobe tax when there are much better alternatives.
This is a great video. I've used Photoshop to process my scanned collage artwork for 20 years. I don't use it to it's full effect, but being able to buy the software outright for a reasonable price, as well as your opt-out options from AI "features" are pretty simple asks from a professional, consumer, or otherwise. I've been learning how to use Affinity Photo. Overcoming 20 years of muscle memory to do very simple edits is a little bit challenging, but I'm happy to try and learn if it will take a bite out of Adobe's market share.
I moved out of the US years ago but kept one US bank account open primarily due to lower costs for subscriptions but have been trying to cancel my old Dreamweaver subscription for years, an obsolete Adobe program that has has not been updated in almost a decade but adobe wants to change $800 to cancel it. I still use Light Room and PS so need to find alternatives and close that account so Adobe can't steal any more.
I got so tired of this business model that I've started using virtual CC numbers whenever I sign up for something that requires me to cancel. It also allows me to set a spend limit, so for instance when Sirius XM tries to up my rate, the charge is denied. If I decide to end a subscription, I just suspend (or delete) the car number. Sure, I'll go cancel when I have time, but I can now stop payments with a click. But you guys hit the nail on the head with Adobe here. Oye...
I had this concern last year.....If I am working on a private commission, hand made digital painting and phyical painting, my work cannot be available to other people. It would devalue my expertise and USP.
What is the alternative to Adobe if you use LRC as I do? I'm locked in as all the edits I have and still modify on old images means that I have to stay with LRC. I heard that you Tony ended up by wanting to change from using Adobe software. I will be looking forward to see what you can suggest. The real issue here is as I mentionedd we are locked in since you cannot move your edtts or even the catalog to some other software. Yes, some say they can and I have tried it in the past but that is a joke and unusable. The most obvious would be Capture One, but they are even more greedy than Adobe!
First step is take the view that re-editing is just a by product of non-destructive editing. Starting with raw data from scratch is the real benefit. For any image that you didn't do a ton of pixel editing on, it is no big deal to start over in a different processor. I used LR from the day it was beta on Win until 2018 when I switched to Capture One. If I were to switch again, I'd probably have long look at darktable. I have always been happier with the re-edit in CO. For images with a lot of pixel edits, export a 16 bit ProPhoto tiff or start over. As for catalog, write all metadata to files, side cars for raw, and it should be read by any good DAM. This really is best practice anyway, the files are the source of truth, the DAM just reveals it. A good safety net is create tags/keywords for labels, flags, albums, anything that might be different in the new DAM, then you can filter on those and apply whatever best fits or just stick to the more universal keywords/tags. I'm a strong believer in separating DAM and processing. Your DAM is needs to be long term and stable. You don't want to deal with changing it more than absolutely necessary. Putting everything you really need in standard XMP and not just proprietary bits like flags, albums and categories goes a long way to make a migration easier. Nested keywords from LR are widely supported if not really standard. I use different processors at will since going this route. Canon DPP, Affinity Photo and the vast majority in CO, sometimes a different tool will handle a photo better. Sometimes just provide that little spark to unlock what you were after.
It's not about greed. If one can use Capture One without the headaches you get from LRC/Adobe - then the price is worth it, as I don't know about you, but I value my time.
@@brianwitter3271 ok, so what is the DAM solution that won’t become subscription, is preferably open source and well maintained and integrates well with the photo editor? That’s part of the problem, for me Lightroom Classic has that sorted.
@@pantoqwerty I'd argue LR doesn't from my own experience. I had many photos that had the proper metadata but wouldn't show when searched or filtered for. digiKam is open source on Linux, Mac and Windows. I don't have experience with it. Photo Supreme is on Mac and Windows and seems to have addressed some of the reasons I chose IMatch 6 years ago. I don't have experience with Photo Supreme. IMatch (Win only) has been awesome for me. I had an issue with EXR files and the developer fixed it right away and made sure it worked for me. I've seen this level of support countless times on the forums. Integration with pixel editors is great. Raw editors is often a more complicated since they are usually databases and want the file imported rather than File>Open File. You'd have to research your setup. I just have both open to the folder I'm working in. IMatch and any raw processer I use reference the files as I have them in my folder system. I would advise this approach. Capture One is my raw processor, I have catalogues for each year since raw processors often run into trouble when the database gets too big (LR included). IMatch and I assume digiKam and Photo Supreme are built to handle large databases so it holds everything. ALL metadata is written by the DAM, always, no exceptions. Capture One reads it and can sort, search and filter with it. I've been using IMatch and C1 for 6 years and the tiny bit of pain in using separate apps is more than offset by the benefits of dedicated to the task tools and being free to use any raw processor at any time. If your not changing metadata as part of your editing process, you can often just go straight to you raw processor and not even open the DAM. digiKam is free. Photo Supreme is perpetual license, don't know how much upgrades are. IMatch is perpetual, cheaper than Photo Supreme and the major upgrades are a bit over half price. There are many free updates, both bug fix and improvements, between paid upgrades. Both the paid options have trials. Make a copy of a group of folders and play. One more thing just popped in my head. I think of the exported files as backups of the finished photo. With the separate program approach, Capture One or whatever raw developer just has the raw and (maybe PS/Tiff files if they are round tripped) The DAM has the raw file and all downstream files like full size jpg/png, different crops/sizes, printer adjusted, layered edits, openEXR, composites, etc. This way the developer database stays even smaller.
I ended up with Affinity Photo, because of Adobe's subscription policy... subscription policy is easy money, which "usually" means worse service 🙄 And I have no regrets
@@justmethenetherlands2218 i switched to canva for my thumbnail needs ( which is way more efficient ) and still learning Affinity the only thing i miss is the batch processing of lightroom… i do my personal photos on apple photos and now also using it for pro stuff;)
@@JavierDiez wow i had to search and manually remove folder cause it didnt want to uninstall it kept telling me to close the programs and all was closed and the uninstall just didnt work.. its virus behavior
Thank you so much for this video. As a newly retired person entering the world of photo/video enthusiasts, I am scouring UA-cam and the web for info on how to proceed. Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop have seemed to be the industry standard but learning about them and there absolutely awful "Subscription Model" have me stopped in my tracks. I've seen a few of your videos and love your content. Very interesting, informative and professional. By you addressing this "Subscription Model" fiasco, and apparently other issues with Adobe, you have confirmed my highly suspicious concerns about all this. So my problem now is how to proceed from hear. What software should I spend my precious, and limited, time and money on. What could/should we consider using that might be thought of as a "NEW" alternative "Industry Standard" to use, to be able to communicate and share with the professional world out there, like yourselves. Again thank you for trying to address this actually very serious sticky major problem. I, and I'm sure a LOT of others, hope to hear any and all additional information/thoughts you may have on this topic. Take care, from a new and thankful subscriber.
I’ve had some images in Adobe stock photos for a couple of years. I’ve probably sold a dozen shots. I have never been paid a single cent for these, because Adobe doesn’t pay you until you sell a certain amount. I view Adobe as thieves because of this. I won’t be uploading any more images to Adobe Stock images.
I’ve been an Adobe customer since Illustrator 3.0 so coming up to 30 years. Over the last 10 years not only has innovation and useful features declined but some have been withdrawn. For example the 3D features in Photoshop, excuse they can’t make the app work across different 3D hardware / standards. Withdrawing support for Pantone colours. The apps are becoming more and more buggy , so projects take longer due to broken features. The snooping and AI training using my content also landed me in trouble due to NDA,s. The new features are all about auto generating content which basically is Adobe saying thanks for all of your money and use of your content to train our AI so we can go after your customers directly and cut you out. I am actively learning the Affinity Suite but am stuck as many clients require Adobe compatibility,
Switch to the Affinity suite of programs, Davinci Resolve, DXO Optics Pro and other programs that can replace the Adobe programs. They are good enough, and in some ways better than Adobe's apps.
Yeah moved from premier pro to davinci studio, not only saved money not having to subscribe but davinci is solid and never given me the crashes that PP did. It’s just gone a notch up with v19.
Thanks for bringing this up! I have considered leaving after effects, premiere, lightroom and photoshop and this video makes me lean even more towards that. That is also why this is hard because I really rely on these programs to do my stuff. How many hours would I need to retrain myself to use alternatives for all these? That is a huge cost for us, because sure, we invested money in buying the software for years but we also invested all that time to learn and use it...
Thank you for being a voice to all photographers! I’ve complained to Adobe numerous time after my photoshop wouldn’t start up but to no avail! It took me three days to sort out. In the end, I had to delete all my apps including all my settings before I could use photoshop again. I used camera raw as my initial processing platform but have moved to capture one, although a bit more experience, I do find it easier and much more reliable system. Saying this, I still need photoshop for final touch ups.
I just tried to install my “purchased” photoshop and Lightroom cd on my computer. It has installed before. Now I get sign in loops, and also am directed to the adobe subscription site. Adobe says the version is no longer supported or says the serial numbers are invalid How can adobe stop my installation of Photoshop and Lightroom I purchased and have legally been able to install previously on same computer? Seems criminal to me
Affinity is an inexpensive/powerful alternative to Adobe, but they were just bought by Canva so we'll see how that plays out. I understand subscriptions and don't have a problem with a reasonable price. Companies do struggle with the feast/famine upgrade cycles and I work for a software company. I just want Adobe to make better software. In the mean time, I prefer non-Adobe software from Apple (Final Cut) and Affinity (Designer/Photo) and let my company provide my Adobe CC account for the occasional After Effects, Audition, Premiere Pro, PShop, etc. job which I usually use somewhat begrudgingly.
Bought but Canva? That makes sense. I just got an email from Canva that my subscription is going to more than double, claiming the same as Adobe that it’s so that they can continue to improve my experience. Sounds more like they just want to make me pay for their investment. Sorry, Canva, but I’m dropping you too.
I use Premiere Pro on a near-daily basis. The lag time and freezing while scrubbing footage has become maddening, not to mention the boot-up time most days. I clear the cache several times a day, started using proxies (which helped some), and cleared all cache on this Mac a few times a week. It wasn't like this just a few months ago. I used to be able to run Premiere and Photoshop simultaneously while having a browser window open to listen to something on UA-cam with no issues. Our tech person came in, sat at my computer, and showed me that I had more than enough memory to do what I needed. If an Adobe rep does read this, stop with the fancy AI bells and whistles and work on making the base program more stable.
I got rid of Adobe when they started removing software i paid for. Never again. I had a tough time deleting the subscription i did want. No more Adobe.
I've seen this pattern unfold across various industries. Creative companies often begin with noble intentions, delivering innovative products that users love. However, over time, the focus shifts as profits take precedence. A great product is created, only for the company to be acquired or for the original creators to be sidelined. Development budgets are slashed, the emphasis turns to extracting maximum revenue, and the original vision fades away. It's disheartening to watch, but unfortunately, it's all too common. That's why I believe it's crucial to support smaller companies whenever possible-those who still prioritize their users and stay true to their original mission.
Louis Rossmann: "Modern companies treat their customers like adversaries rather than partners" because "you get a worse experience as a paying customer than pirating"
Mr. Rossman is 100 percent correct
With respect Louis, they don't treat customers like 'adversaries.' That almost sounds like equals. They treat us like serfs, chattel bondage. Not allowed to complain, or leave. I haven't used Photoshop in years. My air gapped 2016 2018 v software MacBook Pro still runs Lightroom and Illustrator 5.5 but Photoshop had stopped working already.
But let me guess. 8 years later, all the things that were annoying then are still annoying. Illustrator: the ever shrinking cursors (as screen resolution increases), Lightroom - it loses links to files, says it's lost, but can't even remember what harddrive it last connected to that file on. 6:52 and there it is! 14 years and they've never fixed that. Unf*ing believable. They should be ashamed.
The reason they don't fix this, and why that useless Web module is still in the program is probably because none of their current coders know the kernel (code) well enough to find that part and change it. Same thing happened with the iPhone after its first couple of iterations. The original coders burned out from overwork and moved on. (I think this is in "The One Device: The Secret History of the iPhone by Brian Merchant.) I think they had to rewrite it in order to move forward. iTunes was like that for a while. So people have been paying subscriptions for 'updates' that except for a few minor things aren't even possible.
I'll never give Adobe another nickel.
At this point the best thing to do is find replacements, turn our backs on Adobe and never look back.
That's 100% true, but it's worse than that. Watch Louis Rossmann's video titled "why I use the R word to describe manufacturers with no regrets". These companies (including Adobe) have a rapist mentality. Also watch his recent video titled "Disney creates the best argument for piracy in a century".
That's 100% true, but it's worse than that. Louis Rossmann's video titled "why I use the R word to describe manufacturers with no regrets" and "Disney creates the best argument for piracy in a century" really show how sick these sleazy companies really are. Adobe is just one of them.
That's 100% true, but it's worse than that. Louis Rossmann's video titled "why I use the R word to describe manufacturers with no regrets" and "Disney creates the best argument for piracy in a century" really show how sleazy these companies are. It's not just Adobe.
I left Adobe 2 month ago after using it for more than 20 years. Today I am using Capture One as alternative to Lightroom, Affinity Photo as alternative to Photoshop and DaVinci Resolve as alternative to Premier Pro. I am extremely happy.
DaVinci Resolve is vastly superior to Premier Pro...and it's FREE. Hell, even the paid version is only 300 bucks - ONE TIME - for a lifetime license. I still pay the 10 bucks a month for PS and LR, though. Once they raise the price on that, I'm gone.
Capture one was where I was thinking of going, but the License agreement explicitly states that by uploading content to any of the Cloud Services provided by Capture One, the Licensee (you) represents and warrants that you own and control or have the unconditional right to upload the content to the Cloud Services (1). Additionally, you represent that you have obtained all necessary third-party rights and permissions to upload and use such content (2). By uploading content, you grant Capture One a royalty-free, perpetual right and license to host, reproduce, distribute, display, perform, manipulate, synchronize, create derivative works of, and otherwise use the images or other content uploaded to the Cloud Services as necessary to provide the services and enable you to use the features of the Cloud Services (3). However, you retain ownership and control of your images. Capture One does not claim ownership of the images uploaded by you, but it does have the right to use them to provide the Cloud Services as outlined in the agreement (4). Not sure it's any better, but I haven't looked too deeply into the matter (yet)
@@catherinesoucy6911 I have a perpetual license of Capture One and no cloud services from them
@catherinesoucy6911 ....so if i dont upload via cloud and save everything directly to my computer library, then that doesn't apply? Is that correct?
Shit I just subscribed to Adobe cloud and now bound for one year (I am new to this, heard that „Adobe is the best“😅)
I teach photo in a high school. Every student has an Adobe account paid for by the school. Adobe has access to all of the student's creative works without their individual consent. This is a problem.
Schools are also part of the problem. Same reason why they host Microsoft Windows/Office. Then they complain about the BSOD. Plenty of viable and sometimes even better alternatives to the mega-corporation applications.
Can each student also have a personal account that can store images only locally and not on the Adobe servers (cloud)?
@@yeohi They can. I am not the primary account administrator, so I have less control over their accounts.
We used to use Adobe in our school, we dumped them and changed to affinity suite, they never missed it as affinity is easy to adjust to. The school saves over $10k AUD per year now and EVERY student (we have over 1400) can use it at school and at home, staff also. With Adobe we had to pay for so many seats, no limits with affinity. Money saved for other things such as cameras and other hardware.
wow!
T: "After 25 years it's time for me to switch." C: "You're not gonna even give them a chance?" OMG Chelsea, what chance has Adobe NOT had to respect their users and engage in ethical business? This subscription model has been going on for more than a decade, and their business practices have steadily pivoted away from creative-centric toward the interests of their stock holders.
Agree
It is why corporations are created and why they exist and thrive. In the laisser faire world of business, in the 'democratic world', the shareholder rules.
Let us suppose that the board of directors of Adobe sent a questionnaire to the shareholders asking them "If we go to a subscription system we forecast increased revenue. The users of out products will like object to this and some may not take up a subscription. After a year or two the subscription system will be all that many users have ever known. Do you approve of the subscription system or should we retain the 'buy outright' model? The phrase 'no brainer' is apt in this case.
@pbasswil That business model sounds an awful lot like how Boeing has done business for the last 20 years. Look how well that turned out!
@@nikiroberts1366 :^/ I'm sure there are still a few large corporations that stubbornly cling to the customer-based values that made them big in the first place. But clearly the trend in boardroom politics is to separate business policy from product & customer priorities. It's nothing new, but it's still disheartening to see client-focused companies "turn" this way.
Adobe treatment of its customer base is awful. How about a couple of vlogs for us?
1. A step be step by step instructional on how to suspend an Adobe subscription.
2. A review of the three better alternatives to Adobe [that are not subscription-based].
3. How to contact the FTC and your Congressional Rep on stopping Adobe's egregious market place conduct.
That is a great idea!
I agree, I do use a handful of the services but would switch if there is something more comparable
I don't think they have done any of the above :P
100% agree with this!!!
I'm starting to use Affinity Photo 2.
The biggest problem with switching away from Adobe is that over the decades they've consistently bought out almost all significant competition. In all the years the U.S. government was going after Microsoft, Apple, Google, and others for monopolistic practices Adobe was always far worse and nothing was ever done. Even Photoshop wasn't developed in-house.
If only Macromedia would still exist...
@@vaataja Or the old Corel
Yes, their business model has always been predatory, just like Microsoft's.
15:40 “They are always making themselves sound noble while doing crappy things”
This is the best description of Adobe i’ve heard.
That's an excellent description of capitalism
@@WarKrieg That doesn't describe capitalism at all. It describes human nature. Progressive lay multiple faults at the feet of capitalism. But every single one of them has nothing to do with capitalism. Communism, OTOH, would be great, except for the fact that all the same faults can be found in it. Why? Because communist economic systems are run by people, and human nature causes people with their own interests in mind to take control and make things better for themselves. The same occurs in capitalistic economic systems. Has nothing to do with the system per se. It's the people who run it.
Now, to say what I actually came here to say (and it is related): "They are always making themselves sound noble while doing crappy things." Sounds like the government. ANY government. It's all good for you, whether you appreciate it or not. At least we can cancel our subscriptions with Adobe.
The word *slimey* comes to mind.
adobe's client for over 10 years now to their sub service.. after the big drama I cancelled my sub for the first time and it was a pain and an half.. not counting the cancelling fees I didn't see coming whatsoever.
That was really the last straw for me. Not only am I paying monthly for a software that doesn't require any monthly fees, but lately the product has been terribly stale for me, so why am I paying for nothing to happen, no new actually good features etc?
And the privacy part is just such a big no no, the moment I was aware of this is when I jumped onto their website to cancel.
I take photos of interiors of yachts for some of the wealthiest people on earth, and as you can imagine, those photos are NOT supposed to be out in the wild. the fact that adobe can decide to look at them, leak them or whatever is just such a massive red flag, never again am I paying for a subscription model for my photo and video needs, NEVER.
Thanks for nothing adobe, I hope you disappear.
Please do a show about Lightroom replacements. There are many replacements for Photoshop but I have never found a replacement for Lightroom and that's what keeps me tied to Adobe.
I use Capture One. Not cheap thou. 1 time payment of 200 USD at discount. No free upgrades
@@agahaXie It doesn't have the same easy to use cataloging features (edit metadata, search for specific meta data, rename files, etc). Lightroom makes all that easy. Capture One does a great job of editing and processing images but if you have to manage 100K+ images, good luck.
@@agahaXie That's about what a year of Photoshop/Lightroom Classic costs. You're not upgrading more than once a year, are you?
DxO Photolab is a better replacement
Raw therapee is very good, i do use it ~2month, i like it, watch a few tutorial video about, easy...used lightroom back then, never again.
One word: Affinity.
Affinity got bought by Canva. Subscription model for Affinity is coming up next.
I hate, hate, hate any company that makes it difficult for you to cancel. If I see one complaint about this from other people, I will not use their product. It should be called theft and charges pressed when someone can't cancel a subscription. Your bank account should never be held hostage by any company. Adobe, Amazon, and Apple you sure can do better and I will not use your company until you do. The cancel button should be on the front page and not hidden under tons of pages. I shouldn't have to go to internet to find out how to cancel a subscription. Let's get honest for a change.
The last time I cancelled a Patreon subscription, it required an Internet search. It's standard practice to make it difficult to cancel; the hope is that you'll give up, especially (in the case of Patreon) if the subscription is for a small amount of money.
I share your dislike. However, you should have to go to the internet to find out how to cancel. But it should not be buried in a distant web page. And the option to call a live person should be given.
@@yeohi A cancel subscription button should be on the front page and visible. To hide it on back pages that you have to wade through or go to internet to try to find out from other people how they canceled is not a good business practice It's deceptive and it's getting worse with these companies.
@@davidgriffin79 Exactly and it's dishonest! I'm not joining anything I can't get out of easily.
I had to close my bank account to achieve this .
Anyone who thinks Adobe, run by executives who've never been creatives, cares about creatives other than how much money they can suck out of their bank accounts.... is completely delusional.
What's sadly hilarious is their mindset is "We'll tell you what you want/need. Also, you want us to eliminate your job and you'll like it."
Adobe is beyond repair, just dump them and move to something else like Affinity Photo
they are talking about the storage data base, not photoshop
@@yajlemag1 That may be, but how much do you need that 'database'? It's just a folder structure by another name with some fancy stuff attached to it. Fancy stuff that you can do without, quite happily. Use folders and an editing app.
I'm in the process of switching and Publisher destroys InDesign 🤯
I thought I would do the same. Affinity was well reviewed and I had high hopes. Then, over the course of two days, I watched vids of the use of the new 'Removal' tool in LrC. All demonstrating it concluded with the word I myself thought appropriate - astonishing.
I recomend watching Terry Vander Heiden's review. Note that the tool is not completely foolproof in some instances, and will doubtless be improved, as the tool in LrC 13.3 is 'beta'
I then watched an Affinity reviewer use the Affinity 'removal' tool. He 'removed' 4 offending objects from an image. Each object required at least 3 steps before giving a result that the reviewer considered satisfactory, although the final results did vary, object to object.
I have been using the last of LR's 'buy outright' - V6 - because I did not want, could not afford, the sub system. But now I find I can have LrC + PS [for which I have no use, especially with this amazing removals tool now in LrC] for GBP9.99/month. LrC has come a long way since V6. The masking tools, for example. Even as a pensioner on slim pickkins I can afford that.
I will take the LrC sub because it is clear that LrC has taken a giant step up and away from Affinity.
Affinity needs a Lightroom replacement, the only reason why I still use PS and LR Classic over the Affinity Suit
I am very glad you made this video. Many of us complained about the adobe subscription model (when it first came out). Our primary concerns were a) not owning the software, b) difficulty in cancelling the subscription, and c) the lack of meaningful upgrades and improvements to the software. That was our warning to you and it was scoffed. Now you are finally seeing our point.
Thank you!
Photoshop has tools that haven't worked for a decade and are still in 2024.
Wait for a few years and Adobe will beaten by custom app generator.
I solved that problem the minute that Adobe decided to go the subscription route. It was obvious to me that this was not in my favor. I bought the last version of PS that was a permanent licence and have been using it ever since. It does everything I need and I believe that all pros were doing just fine with that version, so it's good enough. Let's face it, after 40 years of professional work, I have never felt that digital trickery was that crucial to the essence of my images. Adobe banks on upgrade-a-nitis and FOMO to sucker consumers into their little game. There are other options and people who want to do something about it can. If enough people come to their senses, Adobe will as well. Nothing like the power of consumers to curtail corporate greed.
Agree completely and with @porkpie2884. I am still running CS4 - does everything I need. I have replaced adobe camera raw with Raw Therapee which is way better and free!! It wont deal with some of Sony's compressed raw files but I prefer to use uncompressed raw only so no issue for me.
Well said. I use Affinity Photo 2 and that's all I need for my pics. One payment, that's it. And until today, I use less than half of the options there.
I did the same thing and that was fine for about 8 years until I needed a new Mac and the old CS Suite wouldn’t work anymore, also had issues swapping Indesign files with clients so eventually subscribed to cc… I hate this model, totally in their favour so would love to see a fairer alternative emerge in the way that Adobe usurped Quark, but now THEY have the monopoly they’re just as self serving
I have that same version on my laptop…. And you are missing soooooooo much. It’s cheaper to pay per month than it ever was for a subscription you needed to pay to update.
Update costs were only comparable if you did do every year. I used to have the suites and would update every 3 years - about £400-££500, so about £150 a year, subscription now costs me about £500 every single year :(
I bought an Adobe 5 suite because it made it easier to do my homework AT HOME. I really enjoyed Adobe products. But, after getting my degree, and not being able to find a job in my field, I could NOT afford to pay for their new subscription plan. I continued to work with my suite as long as possible, then found Serif's products.
VERY similar to Photoshop, InDesign, and Illustrator. I bought Serif's Affinity suite for an amazing $89.00 during a sale, and have not had to pay for any updates, nor do I need to use the Cloud for storing my work. That's the other thing I dislike about Adobe - I want MY work on MY computer (or other storage device), and NOT be open to being stolen from the Cloud.
Tony, if you really are interested in changing, give the Affinity products a try.
Well said. I use Affinity Photo 2 and that's all I need for my pics. One payment, that's it. And until today, I use less than half of the options there.
These continuing problems are the result of Adobe having a monopoly on creative programming. There needs to be viable competition or Adobe will just tell you what you get instead of the consumer telling them what they want.
I am using Topaz now as PS stopped running on my machine.
There are viable alternatives, whether or not you choose to use them is you choice. Many of us have left Adobe with no regrets
Previous with no subscriptions the user could take time to evaluate the new version and decide if it was worth upgrading. With subscription model this evaluation (which is very important for the evolution of the software by natural selection) is gone …
What do you use? @@davidpearson3304
Capture One, designed overseas, if we buy more, there will be job losses for Adobe, and I would love their layoff lol
Thank you for speaking out about this. So many people, including myself, are oblivious to how our data is used. A standalone camera, disconnected from the internet, can create a false sense of security regarding photo privacy after editing.
It's not just that Adobe went went with a subscription model, so many others have. It's that they acted out all the dark patterns that make so many of us leery of subscription models when they did. Thank you Tony and Chelsea for amplifying the voices of so many of us who can do little more than cancel our subscriptions.
Thanks for standing up for the photo community!
In 2024, if someone orders a SAAS product without using a custom-generated Visa/Mastercard number for each transaction, they’re asking for trouble. I log into the Citi Double Cash dashboard and create a custom number, naming it something like “Adobe Scammers,” and cap it at $30/month. This way, even if they raise the rate, the charge will be denied. I also never use my real name; I always use the name of the company in the purchase agreement. So, Adobe has my name as “Adobe Photoshop,” which completely negates any privacy concerns regarding the supplied billing information. If I want to cancel, I never submit to the nonsense in their TOS. Instead, I simply set the custom card limit to $1 or cancel it entirely, leaving Adobe in a hamster wheel trying to figure out how to bill themselves. We live in a world where you can’t just provide your details and credit card information anymore.
I didn’t know this was a thing and now I need to figure out how to do it!
You Sir have just given me a ton to figure out, I hope such things are possible outside the US
yeah using virtual cards for subscriptions is also a solution, you only put money on thoes cards when you want
Brilliant, thank you for this!
Privacy is another company you can use and decide which bank you want to attach the virtual card to. You then name the virtual card for whatever you use, ie, your gas bill, the electric bill, Adobe, etc. It generates 1 card for each. You then set the limit on it and if you don't want to pay anything then put it at $0 to $1, etc.
Hi guys, I haven't used Adobe in about 4 years now. I switched to Affinity photo 2 and absolutely love it. This is a great alternative if you're on the fence with Adobe!
Software as a service (software subscriptions) are better for shareholders not consumers period.
Nah it's better for managers when they present to the shareholders.
After the latest scandal this year, I decided to cancel my subscription with Adobe. A few days before the annual payment, I changed my credit card number and canceled my contract. It wasn't difficult to cancel (I imagine they had already made changes to that process because of the lawsuits) but on the due date and despite having canceled the annual plan, they tried to charge the fee. For now, I'm already with Affinity Photo and I don't know if I'll go back to Adobe, I don't know if I'll trust such a mean company again.
The primary purpose of corporations is not to serve consumers but to make oligarchs who own controlling interests incredibly wealthy and to rip off consumers in the process.
Although you’re not wrong in practice you forgot to mention that corporations are legally bound to increase the dividends for their shareholders. And yes, I understand that the oligarchs and CEO’s are all shareholders. 😅
@@titovalasques If only oligarchs and CEO's obeyed the laws we would not have corporations ripping off people in so many ways, VW would not have faked diesel engine test results, and Big Pharma would be producing medicines that cure people instead of producing stuff that only keeps you alive and dependant on more of their products. Do you know how you define a system where corporations and government unite? We no longer have corporations or government looking out for the population, it is all about super-wealthy heartless criminals/globalist oligarchs getting even wealthier and more powerful.
And the tax system aids and abets the oligarchs.
That's capitalism for ya !!! But it's more than that with these global monopolies with complicated user agreements and dirty tricks. I hope this is a backlash.
Thank you for this. I was a 1st gen Lightroom purchaser, and have subscribed continuously since then. A couple of years ago, i decided that my photo library would be forever lost if i stayed in Lightroom. That is, my family would never get access to the 100k plus photos I’d taken. So, i swallowed hard, and rolled everything into Apple Photos. Guess what? My family is totally in to sharing photos with me, tagging the photos I’ve shared, etc. For sharing alone, Apple Photos wins. The ease of the eco system with respect to photos is insane. And, their AI, facial recognition, etc. is best in class. That said, what I miss is soft proofing for printing. I keep Lightroom for Soft Proofing and printing only (even tho it hasn’t been updated, as you said, in 10 years). Is there a good alternative to Lightroom for soft proofing and printing only?
I am a hobbyist and was happy with CS4. But when I upgraded my computer, I could not use it as activation servers were no longer there. Instead of going to subscription, I just opted for Capture One Pro perpetual license.
When I saw that "skip the photo shoot" bit in their ad, I was SO mad! I mean, you are telling photographers, who are a huge part of your clientele, to just make up stuff? Because it's just easier? Who thought this was a good marketing strategy? 🤬
I started replacing Adobe about a year ago - full disclosure… I am NOT a professional - and I have stuck with DXO Photolab as my favorite Lightroom replacement (Keep pictures on local drives, no subscriptions) and Affinity Photo (again, no cloud storage, unless you want that & one time buying option) as a Photoshop replacement and I have been pleased with both so far!
Same here. Been using DxO myself since version 1 and I am happy to purchase their annual update year after year and I am now on version 7. I hope DxO will keep their pricing reasonable. From 6 to 7, there was quite a price jump.
Affinity has been purchased by a large corporation, so, we can probably expect subscription pricing in less than a couple of years.
@@markjohn8472 true, canva bought them, but at least you can keep the programs (for now).
Photolab requires an internet connection every 30 days or so in order to validate your license. It's essentially a subscription in disguise. I've switched away and moved to Darktable and after following several tutorials here on YT I got better results without being tied to any corporation.
I stopped buying Adobe products the day they started their subscription program. It took me a few more years to stop using Adobe products in my workflow, to give me the time to find replacement products. Today, I have completely cut Adobe out of my workflow and will never go back to their scam system. Finding replacement products and learning how to use them was a good learning curve, but listening to your video made me even more glad that I did it! And the same way, every other companies that switched to a subscription program had been removed from my computer.
You did the right thing.
I cannot believe you two are so calm about Adobe "reviewing inappropriate content."
It is unconscionable. A person edits a personal image, now Adobe has a copy in their cloud, and can review it? And can do anything with it, include train their AI?
I have never used photoshop for photos, I started with on1 at their start and they've just been getting better.
How about disconnecting your computer from the internet prior to working on possibly inappropriate content? I know that Adobe does not require 24/7/365 online connections (just random access to check licenses), so just wondering if going offline would be a workaround.
1. Subscription model
2. BUGGY SOFTWARES
3. Not caring about the actual users who are reporting the issues.
4. PRIVACY BREACH
5. Killing photographers and artists creative work via stealing their own artwork.
Oh god... the list is growing!
I love this video. Putting Adobe on the spot. I really think many more creators should make such videos and this topic should actually be so viral that they finally are forced to listen!
Its so sad. Such a great software company going down this path.
I find it insane that my Ryzen 5800X build with 64GB of RAM tends to struggle to run Lightroom Classic but yet Adobe thinks that AI is the thing I need and not overall application stability and responsiveness. 🙄
One of the things I like about Affinity Photo is that it just feels lighter and more stable.
@@Knowbody42 I would use Affinity Photo for my workflows, but I do a lot of event photography where I don’t really want to spend a ton of time on a photo which I feel Affinity Photo is geared for. After this year I do plan on switching to DaVinci Resolve, Affinity, and ON1 for my work as ON1 does support batch editing.
@@Knowbody42 it doesnt just feeç lighter and more stable. It is lighter and more stable. Lightroom classic is just a fucking mess, something I dont understand considering Photoshop on the other hand runs amazing
Adobe's software is built on old framework. For it to be as smooth as Affinity or Davinci, they would need to rebuild it from the ground up. I think this was the idea with the new Lightroom vs Lightroom Classic. I used the CapCut desktop app for the first time two days ago, and was surprised at the performance, especially compared to Premiere Pro. Sure, it's not as capable, but I can see it being enough for what most people need.
I'm starting to use Affinity Photo 2.
I am a 13-year Adobe customer who has relied primarily on Premiere, After Effects, and Photoshop over the years. Adobe is literally becoming the Galactic Empire of content creation. The fact that they are running more ads than ever while also raising their already-inflated prices really makes you think. I really really really hope they change soon-- if not, I can't wait to jump ship. $700+ EVERY YEAR hardly seems worth it.
Ironically, when people were complaining about them switching to the subscription model, they were called "broke", "hobbyists", "spoiled", "entitled", etc.... all over the net.
Thanks for pointing this out. I remember this!
The biggest annoyance that isn't addressed here about the subscription model is that when you cancel, you can no longer use the software. That isn't like the old model of buying once and owning forever. If you've paid a subscription for over a year and decide to cancel, you should be able to continue on that release in-perpetuity.
It's been a decade and Adobe still can't handle Fuji Raw files without worm artifacts.
Have you found a way around this?
@@vicfil1dxo pure raw 4. after using pure, you don’t touch adobe raw sharpening. After I’m done in Lightroom or camera raw I use the NIK Collection, pre sharpener and output sharpener plugin and get perfect details
try importing a .mkv or .webm into After Effects
Capture One is much cleaner for Fuji raw
I dumped Adobe about 5 years ago. I use a combination of other options with Affinity Photo being the main replacement tool. Where Affinity Photo lacks what Photoshop can do I use DXO Labs, Luminar Neo, and Topaz software to pick up the slack. I have not missed Photoshop at all.
I used to think that we in Germany had poor service, and that it was ten times better and more customer-oriented in America. But seeing how Adobe has been clearly showing its users for months what rights they actually have-none-and how indifferent they are to customer opinions, my view has changed. It’s simply a disgrace how customers' rights are trampled on, and how consumers are shamelessly exploited, all under the guise of customer service. If I worked at Adobe, I would be utterly ashamed, but it seems that most of those in charge only care about lining their pockets and couldn't care less about anything else.
That is capitalism. It was never about competition providing cheaper and better services for customers, it was always about making enough money to buy up the competition and then start making obscene profits from your monopoly. Modern capitalism is now at a point where the obscenely wealthy and mega corporations own our politicians and now have the power to do what they want and pay no meaningful tax - we are now heading further into the majority having no rights, no job security, no real access to the law, diminishing wages and no meaningful democracy - scary!
Time to move to RawTherapee, Darktable or similar.
If large YT channels like yours would actually make the switch to Adobe alternatives, I think this would hurt Adobe the most and force them to make the necessary changes. After thinking for a while about this whole issue and watching videos from several other people, I decided to cut all ties to Adobe and switched to using Capture One and Affinity products. I can tell you that Affinity is so much faster than Photoshop! Capture One also has amazing features, including better color profiles for cameras, etc...
A former Adobe employee told me that internally they are completely driven by “business value”. If some suggests a product enhancement such as fixing a bug, the question will be what doing that is worth to the company.
Here in Europe you can’t sell something that doesn’t exist, like the right use some for training of generative ai before that existed. But judges haven’t yet decided if such training is a case of copyright at all.
BTW just a tip those vibrating slides are annoying.
Seconded
don't criticize them, they're artists! that's why they need to use AI to manipulate their photos while the simultaneously complain about AI
@@polaris911 You're not clever
So is the ultra shallow depth of field when they do close up shots. It's already a meme and they keep doing it. One eyeball is in focus. Fucking great lmao.
I think the big opportunity for you guys now is to make detailed training videos on how to switch from Adobe to alternatives
They aren't listening. We (independent photographers) were never Adobe's profit center and they don't care what we have to say, never have.
It's all about their shareholders and has been for decades. Their profits aren't coming from the photography market we represent. It comes from government, corporate, and academia contracts. Independent photographers are nothing to them. You're wrong to think it's been photographers who've built their business.
It's almost funny listening to all your gripes. I was at this point 10+ years ago when they first announced the subscription model. It was so transparent. Just a profit maneuver without any concern for customer loyalty. I haven't sent them another penny since. I started from version 1.5 and sent my last $$$ to Adobe with CS6.
Welcome to the Adobe reality. It's taken you a while to get here...
Exactly! Glad you pointed out the reality of revenue generation for most mega corporations. Multinationals care about consumers/people about as much as governments do, i.e., zero.
Yes, agree and to add to your comment, very Boeingish (shareholder issue) from these A people!
Yep, just like Autodesk telling us subscription was better for Autocad. Know what they did? They stopped major innovation, fired their feature developers, and now eliminated commissions for resellers. Then the sales people have the balls to request quarterly "customer quality calls" or whatever term they come up with, to help us maximize our efficiency. I tell them that when I am ready to inform them of how they can improve their tools to increase productivity, I will. The long term customers know more about the software than the parent company does. We don't wait for Autodesk to do anything, we write our own add-ons that are years ahead of their solutions. I don't know if Adobe's programs have powerful API's so that may not be a choice.
What have you been using instead?
@@Whereisangelique As mentioned, I have CS6. It does pretty much all I need. More and more a LOT of my image prep/development work happens in Capture One (NO subscription required). I also use GIMP (free) on occasion. The vast majority of my work happens in Capture One, simple edits happen in GIMP, and the occasional involved composite/edit will happen in CS6.
The subscription model was too much and the cost priced me out of the market for Photoshop. I switched to GIMP. Not looking back.
Even though GIMP and Inkscape can be a bit clunky they can still get the job done--for free.
A vote for Darktable here.
If darktable could run a go fund me for $10mil imagine that
Very good option!
Amen. Came to say the same thing. Plus the guy who develops it has a FANTASTIC UA-cam channel discussing features in extreme depth. His knowledge of colour science is excellent.
@@solomongilbert3186 Which channel is that?
@@glengreenman3921 My recommendations for the channels with the best Darktable content: "Boris Hajdukovic" (@s7habo) and "Bruce Williams Photography" (@audio2u
).
The time Adobe really ticked me off is when the removed Creative Cloud Sync. And after they got rid of it completely, my subscription did not go down in price. They still charge me the same, and I was left fending for myself how to sync my large files between computers.
At this point, people continuing to stay with Adobe has become the problem. The solution is to find alternatives that work best for you and never come back to Adobe. This company has gone past the point of no return.
As a newspaper publisher, my printer requires use of InDesign files. I am not the problem.
So glad you are speaking up on this. It's rife in music publishing / production, too. It's not sustainable for every company to go subs based. I mean with monthly costs for Internet, music streaming, TV channels, software, magazines, books, etc it would work out very expensive and I own nothing !! I, too, have been using Adobe since PS4.... they've had more than enough from me and forced me to a subs model. Which for my workflow / requirements are not worth the annual cost. Something else that has cropped up recently is I moved countries (Spain to UK) and I can't change my account to a UK based one without a lot of headaches around settings / libraries and account maintenance. (It's complicated) because the Spanish Adobe is a different entity to the UK based one. There are alternatives to Adobe now, thankfully. And I am looking to change as my account anniversary comes up. Shame.
Thank you for rmaking this video. Two things: Like others, I refuse to use Adobe anymore. Subscriptions are not sustainable for me and I find Adobe Creative Cloud very intrustive. I've uninstalled this software on all of my non-work computers. Second, I am merely a recreational photographer. I used to use Lightroom. Admittedly, I haven't looked to hard for a replacement, but I can't justify paying a monthly subscription for something that I do on the hobby level. If I were retired and I shot photos everyday, it may be a different story. I look forward to future videos where you review other photo processing software. Keep up the great work, you two are the best!
Me too, not sustainable in terms of your weakening exchange rate. They are obviously too clever to even remotely understand the concept of "exchange rate". I am happy with my current version of CS6, doing everything I needed to do!
Thanks!
So Adobe wants to grab all of your pictures to scan for "inappropriate content" but they won't proactively prevent people from inappropriately appropriating your name or brand?
I am an amateur photographer so this opened my eyes to some issues I had not considered, especially the fact that Adobe may be putting some of my images in the cloud. I specifically subscribed to Classic so my images would not leave my computer. The cancellation process is totally wrong! I wanted to try a product and decided not to buy, but missed the free cancellation deadline. When I did try to cancel after 2 months, I discovered I was going to be charged a cancellation fee equivalent to several months of the subscription yet immediately lose access to the product!!! How is that fair? Thanks, Chelsea for the link to complain since Adobe does not provide contact information.
@1:57 Seriously, I hate the subscription model so many softwares have switched over to
Agreed. If I could buy the current version of Lightroom, understanding that upgrades were additional charges, I would seriously consider doing so. As I am not a professional who derives income from my photography, I can't justify a subscription.
I refuse this model
What is the replacement to adobe Lightroom. (I know the replacements to Photoshop etc...But where is the extensive photo cataloging replacement?
And the worst part is: schools keep educating in Adobe. Ofcourse people can change the software program when they finish (photography) school. But I don't think school (in my country) educate and advocate enough for our privacy.
Prior to our school ditching Adobe, some staff complained that Adobe was the industry standard and how bad it would be if we did. I argued that Adobe wasn’t the standard when they started out and that they may never be in the future, things change. Anyway, within a month or two no one was missing Adobe, in fact affinity was/is easier to learn and the inbuilt stock made it much easier for students to grab images and vectors etc and use it in their work with ease. Money saved from their subscription meant we could put it to graphic tablets, cameras and lighting equipment etc, Adobe was too costly and limiting to cover all our students, affinity lets us cover the wool school inc staff for a third of the price. The suite does everything the students need and just like photoshop, they don’t even need half of the features anyway.
I use Adobe LRC and Photoshop on my 2TB 32GB Mac Mini 2. There came a point shortly after a mini upgrade that whenever I touched a brush, or mask, when using LRC, the dreaded beach ball hung around for a minute or two. Professional work schedules were compromised. I did all the expected housekeeping and clearing of memory, etc, re-installed my Adobe software. I even took my Mac into the Apple Store to have it checked over. The hardware was perfect. So, I arranged a phone call with Adobe. They did a screen share during which they uninstalled my CameraRAW version 16.* and installed CameraRAW version 14. Ever since then the performance of my computer editing using LRC and PS has been blisteringly quick. I’m now terrified to accept any upgrade offered by Adobe. The problems I have experienced with Adobe products for the past couple of years, and maybe more, due to very slow performance on high spec Macs, has interfered with my professional work to the point that I experiencing huge amounts of stress!
And now AI - absolutely no thank you!
One of the worst things that has happened with Adobe is the expectation that their process is how you should document, use and create with a product. Adobe is not an “industry standard”. There are a lot of other options out there.
Indeed, much like people feel they can't do without a tech product without an apple logo on it. There are other ways, folks. You're just falling for the marketing spiel.
A lot of this could be resolved if the government was doing it's job on regulation and anti-trust protections. They are covering specific complaints about Adobe, but many of these complaints apply to any company that dominates a specific market - whether it's software, products, or service.
As consumers we have the option to move on to other products, but often this means sacrificing features and/or usability.
Affinity and Capture One. I haven't looked back.
Same here. In fact, it’s an improvement.
Same here too. I have both Affinity suite and Capture One Pro perpetual license. I do have Adobe CS6 on a old computer.
Thanks for reminding me to cancel my subscription. I had the same problem. couldn't find any option to cancel a subscription and I'd eventually forget about it.
I stopped using Adobe Photoshop as soon as my original license ran out due to outdated technology. I had been using the product since the early 90's as a student. When they decided to go with the subscription model, it was obvious the writing was on the wall, and I walked away. There are plenty of alternative options out there, and it meant sometimes using more than one app to accomplish something, but it was clear Adobe was no longer interested in the consumer. I have never regretted the change. I'm just disappointed they changed at all, otherwise I would still be a customer. I applaud the Feds here and hope it leads to something positive not just with Adobe, but with other companies trying to work with the same business model.
6:46 The same is true for video files on a NAS or server. EVERY project I open in Premiere is asking me repeatedly for file locations 🤨
Remember, Adobe is a business and as such, their only concerns is how to extract as much money as possible from people and spend a little money as possible to do so. The excuse is that their primary stakeholder is the stockholder, NOT the customer. Anything that increases profits is justifiable in the sake of making money. The products they sell and customer satisfaction are only applicable when they don't get in the way of #1.
It's pretty obvious that Adobe have no intention of listening to anyone's concerns about their actions or inactions over the years. The only way to make Adobe listen is to show them that you're leaving them and when enough people leave then they'll change or go bust. I was a long-term user of Adobe but finally after being fed up with them for a long while, I just moved elsewhere and haven't looked back. It made no difference to my creative process and saved me a ton of money.
recently cancelled one of my subscriptions, had to fight with the customer care executive for 45 mins to get it cancelled without a early closure fine that was nowhere mentioned while signing up. Adobe is definitely playing dirty, there is no question about that.
Same. Never going back.
Only company to ever punish me for leaving them with a penalty, unbelievable. Went to affinity in the early days, the price was a no brainer and it’s not bloated either. Love the way you can jump between all the apps when using publisher.
16:18 im baffled by how many people who doesnt realize that using generative ai or any sort of ai based tech on photoshop means sending their images over to adobe and adding it to their database as learning data. they just see it as "cool, it did a thing" without thinking how it actually did the thing
Are you saying that most people don't use their critical thinking abilities that our schools have diligently and responsibly trained and nurtured for students? Shocked, I am. 🤣
Yet somehow their AI is still lagging so far behind the competition. But yes we know, but that battle is already lost. The AI image companies have all the data the need and ways to get more. Look at the music business, how streaming changed everything, same here 80% of profit will get sucked up by a few big companies. Better start learning a new trade, and better pick one that does not get eaten up by AI next.
I actually love the Adobe subscription model but I don't use Lightroom a bunch but the updates we get to Photoshop and Illustrator pretty often are things I really enjoy. It is insanely expensive though.
Adobe's response regarding the "ease" of cancellation is complete garbage. Cancelling is a combo of difficult and costly.
I'm starting to use Affinity Photo 2.
Hey, C&TN! LOVE the video and applaud your chutzpah in doing it. BRAVO!!! As to the subject matter, I've had it with Adobe after using Photoshop as long as you have, and PremierePro since v3. I'm in the process of moving my post efforts over to Resolve after working on it a while. So far, love it and getting closer every day to cancelling my CC subscription. It's given my editing flow a refreshing boost in terms of the intricacies of workflow. And I will replace PS with Gimp or Affinity or something, eventually.
But I have ONE RANT regarding your video (very respectfully offered, honest!) because I noticed something that increasingly drives me nuts: Intimate (CU) off-axis cam shots of a speaker. UGGGHHHH! They are a scourge. Please don't use them anymore in your otherwise excellent editing!
In the context of a speaker who's taking directly to ME (i.e., talking ON-axis to the camera in a CU shot), off-axis shots (8-12 degrees offset) rudely interrupt the one-to-one intimate connection that well-chosen shots establish, and good editing reinforces.
It's like you're talking personally to me, as in a personal conversation where you've established that essential one-to-one link, and made valuable eye contact (which as you know is so key in these types of videos)... and then you suddenly turn your head and continue talking, but to someone standing immediately behind me and slightly to my left (or right) while you continue to talk. Eye contact broken. (Wait... I thought you were talking to me??). It's been increasingly common over the last handful of years on YT, and in corporate video as well. Some videos (not yours) use this technique so much, and so blatantly, that they're difficult to watch. I can't be the only person who finds this incredibly distracting.
So... please don't let yourselves fall into that easy B-cam off-axis CU shot trap. You guys are clearly so much more talented than that and your videos are first-rate and always instructive. I KNOW you could come up with the types of shots and and editing that could demonstrate to all us of admittedly lesser talent (of which I am one) that it's possible to create a more compelling one-to-one on-axis CU and MCU shots without having the speaker suddenly shift their attention away from me, the "audience of one". [END OF RANT.]
THANK YOU BOTH for creating some of the best and most well-informed content on YT! Keep up the superb work!
I de-installed adobe this weekend and I use DarkTable & GIMP for my photo editing,
Their latest update -- where photoshop wouldn't even open -- was what did it for me. I had a project with deadlines, so I bought Affinity Photo 2 & Affinity Designer 2. Affinity doesn't have all the features that PS has, but it's pretty darn good, and it's not a subscription model, and it has some features that I really like over photoshop. Adobe now lets me open Photoshop again (whatever), so until I'm more familiar with Affinity, I'll keep using both. But for long term, I'm gone from Adobe.
You guys ROCK! I just shared this video on my professional media pages. I encourage all subscribers to this channel to do the same. You are our representatives in the most incredible way...thank you! Part II.....maybe offer yourselves to the attorneys handling the suit against Adobe to testify on our behalf, if and when this actually goes to court..BRAVO...I cant think of any serious creative that wouldn't contribute funding for you to do just that. Count me in....
😂😂😂😂😂
Corel Draw package has always been light years ahead compared to Photoshop+Illustrator+Indesign together, and it was so easy to learn. Adobe software splitted features in 3 programs that could be included in 1 do-it-all software, beside that Adobe package I think it's one of the most counter-intuitive software I've ever seen.
agreed, looks like corel draw package etc will get popular again (nice to see somebody still actually own and use it, as i do, but i know this things, they talking about in video for years now). with multibillion companies like adobe, autodesk etc they for sure can and do invest big money in anti campaigns etc against competition. so its no surprise you keep hearing for years or even decades, how for example autocad, photoshop etc etc ( i can go to many others, but lets keep iz simple) is so superior to all the rest, while in reality its very close or in some cases even better with other brands.
Capture one, on1, Luminar Neo | Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Affinity Publisher | DaVinci Resolve, FCPX
I finally canceled my Adobe subscription when I discovered they were training their AI off users' photos. I use Capture One for Lightroom, Davinci Resolve for Premiere Pro, Affinity Photo for Adobe Photoshop, and PDF Xchange Editor for Adobe Acrobat. All are one-time payments!!!
Hahaha... poor Adobe users and their self-inflicted pain. Yesterday I downloaded version 19 of Davinci Resolve Studio. I originally bought Resolve way back when it was in version 14 and yesterday's update, like all the others, was 100 percent free of charge. Adobe, learn from a company that *knows* how to satisfy customers.
You realize black magic sells hardware, cameras, and many other products that earn tons of money that allow them to offer offer da Vinci resolve for free. Adobe does not have this model to rely on.
@@PlugInGuruVideo Who cares how BMD do it? Everyone benefits from the results so you'd have to be crazy to pay the Adobe tax when there are much better alternatives.
This is a great video. I've used Photoshop to process my scanned collage artwork for 20 years. I don't use it to it's full effect, but being able to buy the software outright for a reasonable price, as well as your opt-out options from AI "features" are pretty simple asks from a professional, consumer, or otherwise. I've been learning how to use Affinity Photo. Overcoming 20 years of muscle memory to do very simple edits is a little bit challenging, but I'm happy to try and learn if it will take a bite out of Adobe's market share.
Adobe charges non US customers about 40% more and it’s nothing to do with the exchange rate.
I moved out of the US years ago but kept one US bank account open primarily due to lower costs for subscriptions but have been trying to cancel my old Dreamweaver subscription for years, an obsolete Adobe program that has has not been updated in almost a decade but
adobe wants to change $800 to cancel it. I still use Light Room and PS so need to find alternatives and close that account so Adobe can't steal any more.
I got so tired of this business model that I've started using virtual CC numbers whenever I sign up for something that requires me to cancel. It also allows me to set a spend limit, so for instance when Sirius XM tries to up my rate, the charge is denied. If I decide to end a subscription, I just suspend (or delete) the car number. Sure, I'll go cancel when I have time, but I can now stop payments with a click. But you guys hit the nail on the head with Adobe here. Oye...
Companies don’t just “do better” they do what makes shareholders happy. If nobody ACTUALLY LEAVES, then BS like this will keep happening.
I had this concern last year.....If I am working on a private commission, hand made digital painting and phyical painting, my work cannot be available to other people. It would devalue my expertise and USP.
What is the alternative to Adobe if you use LRC as I do? I'm locked in as all the edits I have and still modify on old images means that I have to stay with LRC. I heard that you Tony ended up by wanting to change from using Adobe software. I will be looking forward to see what you can suggest. The real issue here is as I mentionedd we are locked in since you cannot move your edtts or even the catalog to some other software. Yes, some say they can and I have tried it in the past but that is a joke and unusable. The most obvious would be Capture One, but they are even more greedy than Adobe!
First step is take the view that re-editing is just a by product of non-destructive editing. Starting with raw data from scratch is the real benefit. For any image that you didn't do a ton of pixel editing on, it is no big deal to start over in a different processor. I used LR from the day it was beta on Win until 2018 when I switched to Capture One. If I were to switch again, I'd probably have long look at darktable. I have always been happier with the re-edit in CO. For images with a lot of pixel edits, export a 16 bit ProPhoto tiff or start over. As for catalog, write all metadata to files, side cars for raw, and it should be read by any good DAM. This really is best practice anyway, the files are the source of truth, the DAM just reveals it. A good safety net is create tags/keywords for labels, flags, albums, anything that might be different in the new DAM, then you can filter on those and apply whatever best fits or just stick to the more universal keywords/tags. I'm a strong believer in separating DAM and processing. Your DAM is needs to be long term and stable. You don't want to deal with changing it more than absolutely necessary. Putting everything you really need in standard XMP and not just proprietary bits like flags, albums and categories goes a long way to make a migration easier. Nested keywords from LR are widely supported if not really standard. I use different processors at will since going this route. Canon DPP, Affinity Photo and the vast majority in CO, sometimes a different tool will handle a photo better. Sometimes just provide that little spark to unlock what you were after.
It's not about greed. If one can use Capture One without the headaches you get from LRC/Adobe - then the price is worth it, as I don't know about you, but I value my time.
I believe ACDSee can import Lightroom catalogues/index - go have a look.
@@brianwitter3271 ok, so what is the DAM solution that won’t become subscription, is preferably open source and well maintained and integrates well with the photo editor? That’s part of the problem, for me Lightroom Classic has that sorted.
@@pantoqwerty I'd argue LR doesn't from my own experience. I had many photos that had the proper metadata but wouldn't show when searched or filtered for.
digiKam is open source on Linux, Mac and Windows. I don't have experience with it.
Photo Supreme is on Mac and Windows and seems to have addressed some of the reasons I chose IMatch 6 years ago. I don't have experience with Photo Supreme.
IMatch (Win only) has been awesome for me. I had an issue with EXR files and the developer fixed it right away and made sure it worked for me. I've seen this level of support countless times on the forums.
Integration with pixel editors is great. Raw editors is often a more complicated since they are usually databases and want the file imported rather than File>Open File. You'd have to research your setup. I just have both open to the folder I'm working in. IMatch and any raw processer I use reference the files as I have them in my folder system. I would advise this approach.
Capture One is my raw processor, I have catalogues for each year since raw processors often run into trouble when the database gets too big (LR included). IMatch and I assume digiKam and Photo Supreme are built to handle large databases so it holds everything. ALL metadata is written by the DAM, always, no exceptions. Capture One reads it and can sort, search and filter with it. I've been using IMatch and C1 for 6 years and the tiny bit of pain in using separate apps is more than offset by the benefits of dedicated to the task tools and being free to use any raw processor at any time. If your not changing metadata as part of your editing process, you can often just go straight to you raw processor and not even open the DAM.
digiKam is free. Photo Supreme is perpetual license, don't know how much upgrades are. IMatch is perpetual, cheaper than Photo Supreme and the major upgrades are a bit over half price. There are many free updates, both bug fix and improvements, between paid upgrades. Both the paid options have trials. Make a copy of a group of folders and play.
One more thing just popped in my head. I think of the exported files as backups of the finished photo. With the separate program approach, Capture One or whatever raw developer just has the raw and (maybe PS/Tiff files if they are round tripped) The DAM has the raw file and all downstream files like full size jpg/png, different crops/sizes, printer adjusted, layered edits, openEXR, composites, etc. This way the developer database stays even smaller.
I ended up with Affinity Photo, because of Adobe's subscription policy... subscription policy is easy money, which "usually" means worse service 🙄 And I have no regrets
I got off the adobe boat… uninstalling adobe was such a pain it felt like my computer was infected
On what boat are you know? And how do you like the program sofar?
@@justmethenetherlands2218 i switched to canva for my thumbnail needs ( which is way more efficient ) and still learning Affinity the only thing i miss is the batch processing of lightroom… i do my personal photos on apple photos and now also using it for pro stuff;)
I know. In Windows they hide folders everywhere in the system, and some of them are of several gigabytes.
@@JavierDiez wow i had to search and manually remove folder cause it didnt want to uninstall it kept telling me to close the programs and all was closed and the uninstall just didnt work.. its virus behavior
Thank you so much for this video. As a newly retired person entering the world of photo/video enthusiasts, I am scouring UA-cam and the web for info on how to proceed. Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop have seemed to be the industry standard but learning about them and there absolutely awful "Subscription Model" have me stopped in my tracks. I've seen a few of your videos and love your content. Very interesting, informative and professional. By you addressing this "Subscription Model" fiasco, and apparently other issues with Adobe, you have confirmed my highly suspicious concerns about all this. So my problem now is how to proceed from hear. What software should I spend my precious, and limited, time and money on. What could/should we consider using that might be thought of as a "NEW" alternative "Industry Standard" to use, to be able to communicate and share with the professional world out there, like yourselves. Again thank you for trying to address this actually very serious sticky major problem. I, and I'm sure a LOT of others, hope to hear any and all additional information/thoughts you may have on this topic.
Take care, from a new and thankful subscriber.
I’ve had some images in Adobe stock photos for a couple of years. I’ve probably sold a dozen shots. I have never been paid a single cent for these, because Adobe doesn’t pay you until you sell a certain amount. I view Adobe as thieves because of this. I won’t be uploading any more images to Adobe Stock images.
I’ve been an Adobe customer since Illustrator 3.0 so coming up to 30 years. Over the last 10 years not only has innovation and useful features declined but some have been withdrawn. For example the 3D features in Photoshop, excuse they can’t make the app work across different 3D hardware / standards. Withdrawing support for Pantone colours.
The apps are becoming more and more buggy , so projects take longer due to broken features.
The snooping and AI training using my content also landed me in trouble due to NDA,s.
The new features are all about auto generating content which basically is Adobe saying thanks for all of your money and use of your content to train our AI so we can go after your customers directly and cut you out.
I am actively learning the Affinity Suite but am stuck as many clients require Adobe compatibility,
Switch to the Affinity suite of programs, Davinci Resolve, DXO Optics Pro and other programs that can replace the Adobe programs.
They are good enough, and in some ways better than Adobe's apps.
Yeah moved from premier pro to davinci studio, not only saved money not having to subscribe but davinci is solid and never given me the crashes that PP did. It’s just gone a notch up with v19.
Thanks for bringing this up! I have considered leaving after effects, premiere, lightroom and photoshop and this video makes me lean even more towards that. That is also why this is hard because I really rely on these programs to do my stuff. How many hours would I need to retrain myself to use alternatives for all these? That is a huge cost for us, because sure, we invested money in buying the software for years but we also invested all that time to learn and use it...
One of the best decisions I ever made was to leave Adobe.
Thank you for being a voice to all photographers! I’ve complained to Adobe numerous time after my photoshop wouldn’t start up but to no avail! It took me three days to sort out. In the end, I had to delete all my apps including all my settings before I could use photoshop again. I used camera raw as my initial processing platform but have moved to capture one, although a bit more experience, I do find it easier and much more reliable system. Saying this, I still need photoshop for final touch ups.
Please, stop giving Adobe a pass because they absolutely will not change unless you boycott. That’s capitalism!
I just tried to install my “purchased” photoshop and Lightroom cd on my computer.
It has installed before.
Now I get sign in loops, and also am directed to the adobe subscription site.
Adobe says the version is no longer supported or says the serial numbers are invalid
How can adobe stop my installation of Photoshop and Lightroom I purchased and have legally been able to install previously on same computer? Seems criminal to me
Affinity is an inexpensive/powerful alternative to Adobe, but they were just bought by Canva so we'll see how that plays out.
I understand subscriptions and don't have a problem with a reasonable price. Companies do struggle with the feast/famine upgrade cycles and I work for a software company. I just want Adobe to make better software. In the mean time, I prefer non-Adobe software from Apple (Final Cut) and Affinity (Designer/Photo) and let my company provide my Adobe CC account for the occasional After Effects, Audition, Premiere Pro, PShop, etc. job which I usually use somewhat begrudgingly.
Bought but Canva? That makes sense. I just got an email from Canva that my subscription is going to more than double, claiming the same as Adobe that it’s so that they can continue to improve my experience. Sounds more like they just want to make me pay for their investment. Sorry, Canva, but I’m dropping you too.
I use Premiere Pro on a near-daily basis. The lag time and freezing while scrubbing footage has become maddening, not to mention the boot-up time most days. I clear the cache several times a day, started using proxies (which helped some), and cleared all cache on this Mac a few times a week.
It wasn't like this just a few months ago. I used to be able to run Premiere and Photoshop simultaneously while having a browser window open to listen to something on UA-cam with no issues. Our tech person came in, sat at my computer, and showed me that I had more than enough memory to do what I needed.
If an Adobe rep does read this, stop with the fancy AI bells and whistles and work on making the base program more stable.
I got rid of Adobe when they started removing software i paid for. Never again. I had a tough time deleting the subscription i did want. No more Adobe.
I've seen this pattern unfold across various industries. Creative companies often begin with noble intentions, delivering innovative products that users love. However, over time, the focus shifts as profits take precedence. A great product is created, only for the company to be acquired or for the original creators to be sidelined. Development budgets are slashed, the emphasis turns to extracting maximum revenue, and the original vision fades away. It's disheartening to watch, but unfortunately, it's all too common. That's why I believe it's crucial to support smaller companies whenever possible-those who still prioritize their users and stay true to their original mission.