Troubleshooting 3-Way Switches: Why Does My 3-Way Switch Only Work Sometimes?
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- Опубліковано 27 гру 2022
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Troubleshooting a non-working 3-way switch can be a reasonably large pain in the rear for any electrician or electrical contractor. In the latest episode of Electrician U, Dustin gives some Journeyman’s tips (well a Master’s tips really!!) that will make the process easier.
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So, you have a 3-way switch that only works from one side when the other switch is in one position or the other. In other words, if one switch is in the up position, the other switch will turn the light(s) on and off. But if you flip that other switch to the down position, the light(s) won’t actuate at all. This generally means that you have the travelers crossed and either the incoming hot or the outgoing switch leg on the wrong screws. A relatively easy fix once you can understand how a 3-way works and can visualize the process. PSA- always turn the power OFF before working on any electrical installation!
First, put on your troubleshooting/service electrician hat (figuratively of course!). A good tip- as you are unscrewing the device and pulling it & the wires out of the box, do it gently and slowly. A non-working 3-way may not be a miswiring issue as the source of your power issues but may in fact be loose wiring connections. If you pull something out to fast, you can change the state of the wiring and end up chasing ghosts! When you do get the device/wires pulled out of the box, check the connections on the device to make sure they are nice and tight. When putting switch/wires back in box, be careful not to pinch wires and make sure the bare ground wire doesn't come into contact with any of the screws on the device (with the exception of the green grounding screw of course!).
You may also want to check the wiring colors attached to the different color device screws. 3-way switches have 4 screws. A green one for the ground, a black/dark bronze one for either the incoming hot or the outgoing switch leg, and 2 brass/gold-colored screws for the travelers. Try to keep in mind that you will be bringing IN the power in one switch box and OUT to the fixture in the other box. Either of these locations will generally be done in a single 12-2 or 14-2 cable. The travelers (the wiring going in between the switches) will generally be done in a single 12-3 or 14-3 cable. So, the cable with the single black wire will go to the black screw on the device and the cable with the red and black wires will go to the brass/gold-colored screws. If you happen to see the single black wire attached to a brass-colored screw, then the travelers are crossed and that will generally be the source of your problem!
Depending on length (either the homerun or the traveler length in between the 2 switches) you may have to run the incoming hot and the travelers in #12 but the final switch leg up to the fixtures can be run in #14 (if it is a 15-amp circuit). So, another tip can be to look at wire size. If you look into the switchbox that is being used as the last box before it goes up to the fixture itself, if you see a #14 wire attached to a gold-colored screw, chances are you have something crossed.
In addition to the internal composition of the switches, you may notice that a 3-way switch does NOT have an ON/OFF label on the switch. Due to the alternating nature of the switches and being able to actuate from 2 different locations, they will change position each time you go in/out of different doors.
We hope this has been helpful in understanding how a 3-way switch works and some of the troubleshooting techniques to correct a non-working installation. Do you have a topic you would like to see discussed on Electrician U? Leave a comment in the comments section and let us know! please continue to follow Dustin and Electrician U as we are constantly updating our content to assist our followers in becoming the best electricians that they can be.
#electrician #electrical #electricity #troubleshooting #3-way #switches #electrical contractor
That has to be the best trouble shooting explanation of 3 way switch on the internet. Your teaching ability is superior. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You gave me everything I needed to know by saying "My two travelers should be my gold screws". Mystery solved for me and the simple data point I needed to understand 3-way switches. I ran in the house and easily solved my issue by ensuring the gold screws were connected to the two wires in the same sheathing. Thanks!
as soon as you demonstrated the problematic behavior at the start of the video, I knew that this was exactly the video I was looking for!! I goofed a 2-way switch that sits in a 3 gang box when I was trying to install a dimmer switch and with so many wires in the box I've been trying to understand which wires I goofed up. FINALLY after months, this video helped me restore normal functionality to our 2-way kitchen lights. THANK YOU!!
You are a God send! I didn't even realize I had switched my hot wire and traveler wire around. I had two black wires and one white one and no clue how to figure out what went where.
Your very detailed explanation helped me tremendously 😊Now everything works. Thank you so much.
Funnily enough, when I asked my wiring instructor for lessons in troubleshooting, this is what he came up with! It would be awesome if you could do more videos on troubleshooting, as that is not something that has been a priority in my residential wiring classes. I'm especially interested in how basic stuff, and in how we'd go about finding and repairing problems in old houses, but anything would help.
Swapping out old 3-ways in a 1964 house I just bought. Was so confused why they weren't working properly after the swap
Watched this video & when you said to look at the sheathing to see which one had 1 wire coming out & which one had 2. Thats all I did & now it's fixed good as new!
You're the man thanks so much
Please do more videos on troubleshooting. I'm a new journeyman and feel behind on what I should know when it comes to troubleshooting
Do you feel you’ve made progress in this area since you wrote this comment?
@@jimmymaracas6442 lol what
@@coopera6258 lol huh
How are u a journey man and not know how to trouble shoot 💀 I’m fresh out of trade school and I know how
@Luxchannel X I do know how but I'm not super fast with it. I've always done new construction. (Install) there's no troubleshooting in that. And when there is it's the journeyman that do it or I was already on a new job. There's journeyman that don't know how to wire a wire a 3 way switch. Just because someone is a journeyman doesn't mean they know everything. So get off your fuckin high horse and lose the ego. I'm doing fine. Running my own job as a foreman but if you put a service guy that's been doing service calls for 20 years and you have us both troubleshoot a problem he is obviously gonna figure it out much faster. That's what I'm saying. I know what I'm doing but not everyone is good at EVERYTHING in this trade
Just today I was in the middle of swapping all of the switches in my house when I lost track of the wire positions on a 3-way. Initially I panicked but this video helped me resolve it in quick order. Thanks Dustin!
That was awsome. That also helps homeowners to not do any mistakes for just starting to learn from professional electricians as yourself. Thanks for your advices and teaching videos.
Thanks Man! I had this exact problem and thanks to this video I learned how to fix it. The important part that allowed me to see what went wrong was where you identified that the 2 travelers needed to be in the same sheath. Great instruction!
Thanks Dustin I love these new types of videos can you please make more demonstration videos like this where you show us the wiring. It really puts things into practice and reinforces the understanding.
I wanted to thank you for the great video I had the same problem and now I was able to fix it. So what helped me was when you say the two wires that are coming from the same wiring (the black and red) Ned to go on the silver screws. Not on the black one at all on both 3 way switches. Excellent
Omg!! THANK YOU! You made me totally understand how ibwired it incorrectly. Especially since the 3way was installed 20 years ago and the new one was configured differently.
Thank you for the Video!! Someone put a red traveler on the hot lug. The other end was wired to a dimming switch. When I took the switches out the hot wire was 12 gauge and the travelers were 14 gauge. I replaced both switchs as you instructed on another video and it works great!!
I had the exact issue. Watched your video and fixed the issue in a couple of minutes. Thank you!
My favorite 3 way problem was mixing it with a fan and light leg from another 3 wire. It's so easy to confuse especially when cutting in the switch box if not labeled well. I started putting each switch leg and traveler in its own position in the box to help prevent mixups.
Maybe you could demonstrate a more advanced problem say in a 4 gang box with multiple 3 ways switch legs and a fan leg combination.
“Your travelers are always going to be in the same sheathing.” Thank you!! Problem solved.
Dude, the upgraded version of that Milwaukee drill is my most used drill in residential. It's around the same size maybe even more compact (yet looks beefier) but an awesome feature the newer model has is it has 2 speeds, and both a drill mode and screwdriver (clutch) mode. I throw a 6.0 12V battery on that sucker and it'll last all week, but most importantly it has the capability of drilling light holes, in wood, stucco. Really saves the day if ever you're in a pinch or you don't want to have to climb down the attic or back down the ladder and to the truck for a drill driver gun. I Def recommend. Thanks for the videos
I was just learning about this in SkillMill, so this was a great additional review. Keep up the great work!
I was replacing a lot of mercury switches in a 1955-built house. Not all had silver/gold screws , so 3-way was trial and error. The 4-ways were worse...
Thanks for the channel! It helps!
Inbox the telegram channel above, I got something for you
Hey bro I really need to say thanks I changed all my light switches in my house. The kitchen light didn't work for 3 day you video cleared it up immediately. Again thx.
Thanks for the video. I just bought my home and I had that exact problem. With your video I was able to resolve the problem within a few minutes.
I’m a new apprentice with just a little over 800 hours of experience and I wish I could mess around with switches like this. I feel like playing around with switches like this could be a huge learning experience for me.
Great video
I play with mine at home, it's dangerous but thats how you learn, as long there is safety practice, it should be good🤔
Great explanation on how to figure out which wires are the travelers and which wire is the hot wire without needing a multi-meter.
Great video. Got my switches fixed in minutes. Thank you!
This was exactly my issue! Thanks for your help
~ I can see why your content qualifies for continuing Education .... I learn alot from it ~ that I didn’t quite get from my AA Building inspector degree instruction
Awesome video. Recently passed my test and want to focus on getting better with troubleshooting.
Muchas gracias for the very informative electrical 3way connection video. I corrected what I presume was an electrician's hot and travelling wires mixed up
Great video, love hitting the basic stuff sometimes!
This was a great, informative and simple to follow video. Thank you.
These troubleshooting vids are super helpful. Thank you.
My dad taught us basic electrical growing up. I always knew it was called a 3-way switch, I knew that's what they did but I never knew WHY it was called a 3-way switch. I always thought it should be called a 4-way switch. You Sir, made it make sense. The guy working on our house recently wired the hallway light leading upstairs and you have to keep the one at the top of the steps flipped to the up/on position in order to use the one at the bottom of the steps that is in the kitchen, to turn the light on. We had always had these switches in that stairwell but after our house fire (of course an electrical fire but not because of this particular switch LOL) the electrician at the time never even put a hall light back in at the top of the steps. So.....with that being said, I now know how to investigate the issue. If he has the wires correct, as you showed, then I'll have to come back and watch a follow up video from you. hahahaha
We'll try this trick first because the way you explained it, I followed intently and realized that the problem is in fact the one at the bottom of the stairs in the kitchen and is not the one at the top of the steps that is having the issue. You even made that easy to understand. Easy peezy. BTW....you forgot to act surprised when the light came on at the end. LOL
You have inspired me to quit wiring stuff backwards 😂😅🤣 Thx for posting as these are very helpful ...
I have the same MIlwaulkee drill. Love it for the light work.
Thank you very much ... I was lost for an hour... I think I flipped wires for about 40 mins... Got it now thanks alot
Brilliant / Articulate.., You have the skill set to run a major real estate team ! Thank You Sir !
Thank you so much ! You helped me immensely.
Understanding the traveler wires was awesome. Yes, I did have them wired just like you did for tutorial. Oops! Lol! Now they work awesome.🎉❤
Great video for troubleshooting 3-way switches! Man i wish Electrician U was available for Florida. But, keep up the great work Dustin!
Put a word in for Minnesota if you get a chance.
Thanks so much for this. Was pulling out my hair trying to figure it out
YOU ARE THE BEST
I had this situation and I solved it after watching your video. 🙏🙏🙏
I just replaced some very old 3-ways in bakelite with all brass screws. The bakelite was stamped COM. The new Decora switches had the black screw, and each end of the run had two wires coming out their own separate sheathing. Bazinga! COM wire to the black screw, and the other two don't matter, tie 'em to the brass.
I had a 4 way not working on all 3. I also had in my head one worked another light added to the mix. I had all the switches out. I thought I had a bad switch but checked for continuity and it was working. After an hour I fixed it by accident. One of the switches was halfway pressed and that made the other two not work. I was glad I didn't fire the parts cannon and also surprised I was dealing with a 4 way not a 3 way. Sometimes when you don't use a switch for a while you forget which light it worked.
I love your content and I asked someone a question and have no answer yet, here it goes, if an old house doesn’t have an earth ground, how do you install one and where do you attach a ground on your house wiring?
Literally answered the question that I had for my scenario
Dustin thanks for this one. I have battled with this situation a number of times. Usually solve by multiple trial and error. Never thought about checking for the sheathing that they are coming from. Duh on my part for that.
Do you have any videos on motor controls it's still the one thing that gets me every time after 7 years on the field
The point about the shared sheathing was very useful. Hard to tell which wire is what with a 1930's home. Thanks!
I won’t go into all the details but this video helped me figure out how to install x2 3-way switches on my staircase and also keep the lights and outlets on in another room 😂😅
After going back and forth between different options, that's the exact same screw gun I ended up using. It perfectly fits the bill for what I need it to do.
This is a great video. I just went through this exact scenario a few days ago.
We had a newbie/cub change a broken 4-way switch in a light circuit for six doors in an existing commercial building. The cub messed it up, then removed two more 4 ways. Finally reached out for help. Wired in conduit with black THWN wire no wire labels were used. Traced the travelers and corrected the spaghetti mess. Always fun fixing something someone else did. Easy fix lol
Great tip. thanks. btw.. I’m not sure who designed this thing but my wires are not color coded very smart.. a red and a black are bundled together and a white and a black also bundled together... hard to see all the way in the back of the box (where the wires are split into individual ones) to see which ones are bundled together. Also my 3 way switches (LEVITON) have two red plugs for travelers and 1 black for com.. I originally assumed maybe the red/black wire colors were switched so I connected both black wires to travelers and the red wire to com (i did not check for hot wire first .. and maybe i should have). Needless to say it did not work (had the same issue as you are showing in the video). Your helpful tip helped me solve the mystery.. once I looked deep in the back at the box to see which wires were bundled together the fix was immediate. thanks.
Academy award for acting "Super Surprised" goes to....Dustin!
If you assume that no one knows anything, it would be nice to see you test from the power source forward. With a explanation of each step. IDEA, a wifi 3 way on one side and wifi on both sides,with an explanation. Thanks, great job as always.
50s wiring is insane. I have a 50s house and the wiring is just mind blowing.
There used to be these push-button 3-way switches decades ago, so the position doesn't matter, just press. I miss those.
Those are still available for restoration work, but be prepared to really open up the pocketbook, they are expensive.
Great video, thanks!
Great point.
Thanks.
Very true! I recently came across a situation where somebody used a 3-way switch instead of a 4-way switch. How you may ask? They attached the extra wire under the common terminal. 😅
Didnt know you could combine different gauge wire into one device
Question. I’m doing a 3 way switch setup where power comes to the first switch (12/2), meets cable for wires (12/2) and cable for the 2nd switch w/ traveler wire (12/3). At the 2nd switch the traveler wire (12/3) meets the wire at the end of the circuit (12/2) to connect at the switch. Does power need to start at the switch without the wires for lights or does it matter? Connections at both switches will be done via pigtails.
Love this! My first job as an independent, was to troubleshoot and fix ALL of the 3-way switches that had been mis-wired in a 6,500 sqft house in University Park. It was a great learning experience for me and established my regimen for wiring 3-ways. During rough in, I'd give the two travelers a couple of twists together to identify them and leave the common (hot or switch leg) alone. Now I've seen some electricians then coil the common around the travelers and I can see how this would be helpful in multi gang boxes with several travelers (and even multiple commons, a mix of hot(s) and switch legs). For temporary lighting, I might cap the common with a traveler (usually the black) and just install one temporary switch (single pole or 3-way) at the other side. At final trim, I would attach the lonely black to the common, the red traveler to the gold screw on the side of the common and the remaining black to the solo side gold screw. Rinse and repeat on the other end and I've never had a problem.
When troubleshooting customer installations, this is the first thing I, reconfigure the wires as I've described. I've never seen a 3-way switch 'fail' however I have found several single poles that have physically stopped working. They normally feel 'squishy' or 'loose' when operated. Only once have I had a 4-way fail on me.
The worst experience was my first 4-way installation when the boxed 4-way switch had been replaced with a single pole by some devious customer that wanted to save 10 bucks and rip off the big box store. I lost three hours finding out I had the wrong switch then having to make another run to the store. Now I physically inspect boxed switches before I buy them.
But 4 ways have... 4 terminals?
@@sickbassdrop Yes, they do (well, 4 posts and a ground). Two incoming (line) travelers and two outgoing (load) travelers. No common (hot or switch leg) connection. In a switched network (like a long hallway with multiple bedrooms), it goes something like [Line Hot] - [3-way] - [4-way]- ... - [3-way] - [Load switch leg]
@@blueskies4715 I meant you bought and installed the single pole switch out of the 4 way box. Idk how you didn't notice it right away.
@@sickbassdrop Ah. It was in the box. You can't see the terminals in the box. I did not check as this was the first 4-way switch I had ever purchased on my own. I do now, much to the employees in the aisles bitching at me opening the packages to ensure the right product is in them.
@@blueskies4715 I think Kopfjager is trying to understand why it took you three hours to figure out why your circuit wouldn’t work. Your story makes it sound like you installed the single pole, and spent 3 hours figuring out that it wasn’t a 3 way? Do they look so similar in appearance that you wouldn’t know right away that a single pole is not a 3 way? Or did it just take you 3 hours to make the round trip to the store again after opening the box?
Thank you for the video.
Nice! Thank you!
Great piece.
DUSTIN, Can you make another video showing a 3way switch HOT side problem? since this video was about a 3way switch LEG Side problem
0:01 to 7:09 3way troubleshooting
7:10 Dustin self amusement
7:11 Back in business 😎
So, house built in 1943 with a 3-way for the stair well. Replaced the upstairs switch and now it functions like your's did in it's problem state. When I replaced the upstairs switch, I moved the wires 1-for-1, so I'm thinking the internal of the switch was different in 1943.
If I go flip flopping conductors around, there is no danger of shorting anything, correct?
It's actually been like this since 2001 now, but we live this light in all the time. I have ignored it because I don't like disturbing the old wires. (MC wire)
Hey HEY bro... YO... Switches BE Trippin!
I just suggested this video one or two videos ago... that's awesome.
Inbox the telegram channel above, I got something for you
I wonder what a “Chicago” 3-way is? 😅. I’m troubleshooting multiple 3-ways in single gangs with power coming from different breakers. They did not work since I moved in. I have not used a multimeter in many years. I am determined to get it done. I also found in this house built in CA in 1962, a single gang with 3 switches, one 3-way and 2 regular switches. Why????? Much of it doesn’t work but I’m determined to get the tape off all the switches to be able to use lighting. Your video is great for standard switches. Thanks for making it entertaining. 😊
Dustin, Thanks for a great channel. I have a question about multiple 3 way switches in the same J-Box. So, when you enter my Tiny House and on the left is a wall switch, with 4 different 3 way switches. Each 3-way switch controls a different operation. One does ceiling lights, the other does Front porch lights, the third 3-way controls the deck lights and the Fourth 3 way switch controls an outlet at ceiling level for a rope light (LED). I know I can run 14/2 from the panel to the J-box and get power to the switches. Here is where I'm a bit unsure! I need to run 14/3 to the other J-Box that has Four 3 way switches that operates the same as the front door J-box. Do I have to run 4 different 14/3 runs? is there a way to combine those runs onto just one run? and if so how might that work? Thanks for your help!
Is this true for 3 way smart switches? I had a switch that was never able to get it to work even though it worked with a regular 3 way switch
Can you confuse everyone now with a four-way switch video? 😆 They're very common in larger homes now, especially rooms with three entrances and 3 story stair wells.
4 ways are much easier...
Great video!
My amateur solution would be to undo and redo all of it. I can't wait to learn the right way to do it!
I watched 4 other videos. This video made sense.
Great video! I lost count of how many times a homeowner swaps out devices and then calls me. Easy money 😂
ok I have two lights and two double switches I went two change one of the double switches no can do. cant get it wired right. I have two red wires and three black wires coming into the box. any idea how the wires are to connect to the switch?
8:59 I know it’s obvious to people who know but the same applies to boxes with pipe or MC cable. 2 hots and a neutral will define which wires are travelers mostly. Always good content on your channel Dustin!
I have 2 hots and a neutral. So the neutral should be on the common?
@@ivankrushensky No. The white wires would be connected to all the other whites. The red and black would go to the gold traveler screws. The other wires,being the black and white, the whites connected to the other whites and the blacks would be to the black common screws. That’s the best way I can describe it.actually. If it’s MC or BX the white wire is not used between the two switches.
@@rogerk1710 all I have is 1 white, 1 black and 1 red. The white is hot....I've tested it with a meter. I'm thinking this is the second "black".
@@ivankrushensky Yes. That is one way of doing it. Whoever wired it up originally should have phased taped the white wire with black tape or some other color that indicates a hot wire.
It’s hard to diagnose a job without being there. I’m glad you figured it out
I would like to see a video on trouble shooting a 208v or a 480v panel involving bad reading when testing neutral lead? I’ve been having this issue where I have power from black to red the voltage is good but from the neutral lead to hot or red the voltage is either 0 or way low on the 20 v or under. Any tips. I’m sure there’s something I’m missing.
Thanks for the common comment, the pos 3 way switch I was provided has no blacks screws and no instructions in the box, just two brass screws and a chrome screw. I got it fixed now.
Thank you !
I have one light with three switches. Two 3-way and a 4-way. The 4-way had to be on for either of the other switches to operate the light. If the light is on, I can turn it off with the four-way.
Of course, none of the wires are labeled. I figure I'm probably going to need to get a long piece of wire with clips on each end to do a continuity check to determine which end belongs to which other end. (Power off of course)
Maybe then I can sort out where the problem is with the wiring at the switches.
Hoping for some tips in this video. 😂
this happened to me once, i kept checking every wire and 3 way switches and lights till i just swap an old 3 way switch to a new one after that everything worked great and i just thrown the old 3 way switch as far as i could
Gotta love the up-side down customer 😂
I have this exact problem, but there is a white, black and red wire. The white and red are both hot?
Can 3 wire cable be identified by looking at it if it has no label?
Thank you. Solved my problem. Been driving me nuts. Thought I paid better attention. Oh well. Whole house and I only messed up 1.
Thank you so much for all the information. I have been struggling with a 3-way switch in my basement…now I was finally able to fix it!
Thank you, I really appreciate the helpful videos!
Shouldn't the red and black traveler be in the same screw position on each switch? My Levitron switch had the red screw on the bottom left of the switch.
Very good! People tend to pretend that they know the basics. Sometimes you need to put your arm around the shoulders and explain it even though they insist that they know it. Pride can be tiring.
This is exactly the kind of video I want to see🎉. Practical learning for my monkey brain!
Im not a electrician but i can muddle my way though it. 3ways have always confused me, so what do you do? Look at a diagram off the net on how to wire a 3way switch. Following the picture i was having a similar problem to what you where explaining, over & over looking at it & confirming its exactly like the picture, well almost.
Depending on manufacturer the Black screw may be at the top or bottom of the switch so following a picture & running your wires so the same location may cause you 2hrs of frustration & ruin half your day.
Thank your for clearing up the Black screw mystery. LOL
What happens if the traveler is hot but not the switch leg? I tested the wires with breaker on, and the switch leg has nothing but the traveler is hot. Replaced the three way about 2 weeks ago and it’s suddenly not working
Thanks for this
Great video
Hey Dustin I watched your grounding and bonding video and I’m new to the trait and I was curious if you could explain and floating neutral or how that works thank you love the videos !
In a house, electricity comes from a special place called the power station and flows through wires to different parts of the house. When electricity flows, it needs a path to return back to the power station. This path is called the neutral wire.
Normally, the neutral wire is connected to the ground so that everything stays safe. But sometimes, in certain special cases, the neutral wire is not connected to the ground. When this happens, we call it a floating neutral.
Imagine you have three friends playing on a see-saw. They should balance each other to keep the see-saw in the middle. But sometimes, one friend becomes heavier than the others, and the see-saw tilts to one side.
Similarly, in electricity, the floating neutral happens when the three wires carrying electricity are not balanced. This can make the neutral wire carry more electricity than it should, and it becomes a little different from the ground.
To avoid problems, the floating neutral is used in special places where it's needed. But in our homes, the neutral wire is connected to the ground to keep everything safe and balanced.
Language is different but science
is the same. We use the term strappers for travellers, switch live for switch leg and common for common. I generally wire using what we say 3 core and earth ( ground) which consists of a grey(gray) , black and brown in 1.5mm (16AWG). All are Live so the black and grey are over sleeved with brown sleeving as brown means live(hot). Personally the old colours were more appropriate Red (danger) live Black Neutral. Anyway great explanation that you have presented.