The compromise is a good one - Desso pitches (ie. grass pitches with artificial fibres inserted to make them more robust). Everyone from pro players down seem to love them. The only problem is that they are still expensive. But they are the future, not artificial pitches.
I've played a handful of matches on Munsters artificial pitch, now called Virgin Media Park and each time I have aches in joints all throughout my body ache far worse after ant other matches I've played. I feel they should be avoided as much as possible.
@HuwGriffinRugby mostly knees but also ankles, hips and even shoulders were in bits! I agree that they can't just be banned because it may cripple some clubs financially and also some parts of the world growing grass isn't feasible so maybe an artificial pitch wouldn't be much worse than the hard grounds they have but teams in places that can and should avoid them as much as possible.
I watched the Falcons v Harlequins match last week which was played on astroturf Even on television it was clear that the pitch was freezing and players were skidding on it Hockey practices let alone matches are in my experience cancelled once the temperature drops below three degrees in order to avoid the risk of injury to players That should be mandatory rugby as well which would mean a number of clubs eventually get rid of the Astro and return to proper pitches
One thing that owners prefer turf for is not sport, but for concerts and events. You can have stable ground for a stage, even in rainy weather, before taking all the equipment off for a game the next day without damage to the ground.
Minor point - They are, in my opinion, much worse for TV viewing. Hard to explain why - the natural environment so important to traditional rugby- grass, mud, turf, weather - are all compromised. Not to mention the unnatural sliding, ball bounce and player movements.
It is hard to believe that we can't design a pitch that is safe and hardwearing. Turf pitches that rip apart as soon as there is a scrum, and the mud-baths, as well as the high costs you discussed, suggest that grass isn't necessarily the best way forward.
1 only needs to look at the 7s tournaments the amount of bandages needed for the severe burns. This can lead to serious infection. More players slipping over & hip to foot issues.
Why must it be a ban/allow for everybody without any other consideration? Why couldn't we allow it for clubs who can't afford to maintain natural grass, and ban for top-level clubs who can? In my personal experience they suck, they burn your skin off and they make people and the play slower. Plus how can you allow anything carcinogenic? So even if you allow teams to play on plastic, it must be something else.
my guess is that its the depth of the underlay of the pitch. Grass pitches a generally much deeper and the quality of changibility of the density of the turf. Rugby doesn't happen in summer here because the ground is too hard. Well logic should tell you that a pitch that simulates a pitch in summer is too hard so shock is absorbed by the body, not the ground. All other arguments aside (i mean everything causes cancer😂). Extra padding for players would help. Professional era is bringing problems such as worplace safety that is fundamental to how the world functions now. All weather pitches are fantastic for training, for sports where 120kg guys dont smash each other up. The product looks cleaner too. But the marketing heads need to face the reality of the sport they claim to love and want to sell. Rugby is starting to face its logistical limits as a game that can seriously be considered a career. It shouldn't be a choice of being an electrician or 7-10 years of glory with a lifetime of pain and even brain damage after. 😢
Can't agree enough, but sadly, the "benefits" outweigh the "cons". Its not the people in the boardroom taking slides on those pitches, after all. But yeah, money is good and fun and we just want more of it, I suppose.
In my lifetime I have watched artificial pitches make American Football at least twice as dangerous as it once was. It only takes one head-first fall (or throw to the ground) to an artificial surface to give you a concussion that will trouble you for life. I boxed for years but no punch ever gave me the same pain and headaches as my head bouncing off artificial grass. I’ve been warning rugby players for years about what is coming, but they don’t take it seriously. Those quarterbacks you see getting ‘spiked’ in the CTE horror videos don’t function very well these days. Think of the boxer Jerry Quarry (RIP) and you won’t be far off…
The rubber crumb is the worst bit for me. Every time we're on a 4G pitch I'll be finding that stuff in my boots for days, lord knows what other crevices it's gathering in
Not just the top flight even junior rugby players like myself hate them. You have to put vaseline or lube on your exposed skin. I rather get covered in mud than be covered in cuts. The weather excuse is a cop out, my club has three grass pitches which have been improved in the last 10 years. A few thousand pitches in Ireland may have to be ripped up as they are astroturf. Most of the astro turf advocates are alickdoos which says it all.
Having played the last 10 years on Artifical. Training and non-contact is way better. Contact is okay i have often found the game being a lot faster the on grass (mud pitches)
@HuwGriffinRugby dublin for the area. Where are home pitch was astro and several away pitches were too. Often found grass pitches (outside dublin and lower quality) they were are harder to run on.
A few years ago a study was undertaken which showed that professional American Football running backs who played their home games on astroturf had a career three years shorter than those who played their home games on grass
Duch rugby was mantioned, or Duch pitches at least.. Can you do little research and make video about Duch, Netherland rugby? Im Georgian, but I see some similarities in Duch rugby. how fast this nation is developing, both youth and senior levels, it is just amazing to watch them rise up so well and fast..
sooner or later I will, maybe if they crack top 4 in rugby Europe this year that would be a good chance. they had a decent womens team too which not many of the others have
@HuwGriffinRugby Oh, ok. Didnt know about women. Boys U20 come to finals at European Championship 2024, and lost 46-14 to Portugal. Lost yes, but they played final! U18 are also doing well, Duch U18 come to 3thd place at 2024 REC and tok bronze.. Can you imagine, almost upstarts and already doing so well! At least, Duch are taking rugby 15 more seriousely than Germans, not to mantion Romania, Spain ofc and others. Really cool to follow this nation.
South African here, and we would love to see more of them featured. A lot of Afrikaners can trace their heritage to the Dutch (Afrikaans is so close to Dutch that we can understand each other almost perfectly) so we already support them in football. Hup Oranje!
Very ridiculous to try and compare knee injuries between men and women and put it down to the pitch - they have an entirely different bone structure & fat distribution. that said, hate 4G pitches
@@randomlyfactual1943There’s a question; let me give it my best shot. God (that is, Father son and Holy Spirit) love their creation according to the Bible, even though that creation is flawed as a result of the fall. They love the pinnacle of their creation, mankind, above all else. It therefore follows that they would hate anything that damages men, women and children. We know that Astroturf damages the people who play sport on it; just look at the amount of scar tissue around my son’s knees after just a few years of playing hockey on it as empirical evidence of this. So if Astroturf clearly does so much damage to people then yes, it therefore follows that Jesus hates Astroturf. And it is a man-made replacement for the grass which God created as well! The evidence is piling up!
Is there a compromise, or do they simply have to go? ❌
The compromise is a good one - Desso pitches (ie. grass pitches with artificial fibres inserted to make them more robust). Everyone from pro players down seem to love them. The only problem is that they are still expensive. But they are the future, not artificial pitches.
Slide on mud and it's good for your skin, slide on artificial turf and you lose your skin.
😆
Nailed it. It's vile..
I've played a handful of matches on Munsters artificial pitch, now called Virgin Media Park and each time I have aches in joints all throughout my body ache far worse after ant other matches I've played. I feel they should be avoided as much as possible.
all joints or mostly knees?
@HuwGriffinRugby mostly knees but also ankles, hips and even shoulders were in bits! I agree that they can't just be banned because it may cripple some clubs financially and also some parts of the world growing grass isn't feasible so maybe an artificial pitch wouldn't be much worse than the hard grounds they have but teams in places that can and should avoid them as much as possible.
I play the same pitch. It really tears up your skin. 4G is the worst trend in the History of the sport
The former Musgrave pitch might have got as atrocious mud wise as Paschendale, but at least it did not give players awful abrasion injuries.
I watched the Falcons v Harlequins match last week which was played on astroturf
Even on television it was clear that the pitch was freezing and players were skidding on it
Hockey practices let alone matches are in my experience cancelled once the temperature drops below three degrees in order to avoid the risk of injury to players
That should be mandatory rugby as well which would mean a number of clubs eventually get rid of the Astro and return to proper pitches
One thing that owners prefer turf for is not sport, but for concerts and events. You can have stable ground for a stage, even in rainy weather, before taking all the equipment off for a game the next day without damage to the ground.
Minor point - They are, in my opinion, much worse for TV viewing. Hard to explain why - the natural environment so important to traditional rugby- grass, mud, turf, weather - are all compromised. Not to mention the unnatural sliding, ball bounce and player movements.
It is hard to believe that we can't design a pitch that is safe and hardwearing. Turf pitches that rip apart as soon as there is a scrum, and the mud-baths, as well as the high costs you discussed, suggest that grass isn't necessarily the best way forward.
1 only needs to look at the 7s tournaments the amount of bandages needed for the severe burns. This can lead to serious infection. More players slipping over & hip to foot issues.
Weather being mentioned is an excuse, it's cost that drives this, pure and simple.
The people driving the adoption of them are alickdoos, who fail to understand that grass pitches have evolved.
I got scared you were gonna criticize our Jack nowell
We had 1 game on an artificial pitch. 2 broken bones, and 6 injury substitutions. Never again.
How does this channel not have way more subscribers. Excellent stuff as usual.
Why must it be a ban/allow for everybody without any other consideration?
Why couldn't we allow it for clubs who can't afford to maintain natural grass, and ban for top-level clubs who can?
In my personal experience they suck, they burn your skin off and they make people and the play slower. Plus how can you allow anything carcinogenic?
So even if you allow teams to play on plastic, it must be something else.
my guess is that its the depth of the underlay of the pitch. Grass pitches a generally much deeper and the quality of changibility of the density of the turf. Rugby doesn't happen in summer here because the ground is too hard. Well logic should tell you that a pitch that simulates a pitch in summer is too hard so shock is absorbed by the body, not the ground. All other arguments aside (i mean everything causes cancer😂). Extra padding for players would help. Professional era is bringing problems such as worplace safety that is fundamental to how the world functions now. All weather pitches are fantastic for training, for sports where 120kg guys dont smash each other up. The product looks cleaner too. But the marketing heads need to face the reality of the sport they claim to love and want to sell. Rugby is starting to face its logistical limits as a game that can seriously be considered a career. It shouldn't be a choice of being an electrician or 7-10 years of glory with a lifetime of pain and even brain damage after. 😢
Artificial grass is terrible. Time to ban it
Can't agree enough, but sadly, the "benefits" outweigh the "cons". Its not the people in the boardroom taking slides on those pitches, after all.
But yeah, money is good and fun and we just want more of it, I suppose.
In my lifetime I have watched artificial pitches make American Football at least twice as dangerous as it once was. It only takes one head-first fall (or throw to the ground) to an artificial surface to give you a concussion that will trouble you for life. I boxed for years but no punch ever gave me the same pain and headaches as my head bouncing off artificial grass. I’ve been warning rugby players for years about what is coming, but they don’t take it seriously. Those quarterbacks you see getting ‘spiked’ in the CTE horror videos don’t function very well these days. Think of the boxer Jerry Quarry (RIP) and you won’t be far off…
Just out of interest what kind of pitches do the four Welsh regions use?
Cardiff 4G Ospreys grass but going to 4G next season, Dragons and Scarlets hybrid I believe
I played on artificial pitches over in the US. Loosing all the skin on your knees week in week out is horrible..
The rubber crumb is the worst bit for me. Every time we're on a 4G pitch I'll be finding that stuff in my boots for days, lord knows what other crevices it's gathering in
I understand that it is carcinogenic
Very interesting
thanks!
Not just the top flight even junior rugby players like myself hate them. You have to put vaseline or lube on your exposed skin.
I rather get covered in mud than be covered in cuts.
The weather excuse is a cop out, my club has three grass pitches which have been improved in the last 10 years.
A few thousand pitches in Ireland may have to be ripped up as they are astroturf. Most of the astro turf advocates are alickdoos which says it all.
Grass will always be better than artificial turf
Having played the last 10 years on Artifical. Training and non-contact is way better. Contact is okay i have often found the game being a lot faster the on grass (mud pitches)
cheers, good info!
@HuwGriffinRugby dublin for the area. Where are home pitch was astro and several away pitches were too.
Often found grass pitches (outside dublin and lower quality) they were are harder to run on.
Artificial turf destroys your knees and joints
A few years ago a study was undertaken which showed that professional American Football running backs who played their home games on astroturf had a career three years shorter than those who played their home games on grass
@@mauricefrost8900think about how long three years is in a pro sportsman's life; your talking about 20% to 40% if their career
I hate 4G pitches. 100% should be banned.
Duch rugby was mantioned, or Duch pitches at least.. Can you do little research and make video about Duch, Netherland rugby?
Im Georgian, but I see some similarities in Duch rugby. how fast this nation is developing, both youth and senior levels, it is just amazing to watch them rise up so well and fast..
sooner or later I will, maybe if they crack top 4 in rugby Europe this year that would be a good chance. they had a decent womens team too which not many of the others have
@HuwGriffinRugby Oh, ok. Didnt know about women.
Boys U20 come to finals at European Championship 2024, and lost 46-14 to Portugal. Lost yes, but they played final! U18 are also doing well, Duch U18 come to 3thd place at 2024 REC and tok bronze.. Can you imagine, almost upstarts and already doing so well!
At least, Duch are taking rugby 15 more seriousely than Germans, not to mantion Romania, Spain ofc and others. Really cool to follow this nation.
South African here, and we would love to see more of them featured.
A lot of Afrikaners can trace their heritage to the Dutch (Afrikaans is so close to Dutch that we can understand each other almost perfectly) so we already support them in football.
Hup Oranje!
Very ridiculous to try and compare knee injuries between men and women and put it down to the pitch - they have an entirely different bone structure & fat distribution. that said, hate 4G pitches
Yep they should be banned.
Rugby clubs could afford grass before so should be able to now.
JESUS CHRIST IS LORD
JESUS loves you
I entirely agree but is it showing wisdom to post this message on this thread?
@mauricefrost8900 I'm sharing the good news
But Jesus HATES artificial turf, right?
@@randomlyfactual1943There’s a question; let me give it my best shot.
God (that is, Father son and Holy Spirit) love their creation according to the Bible, even though that creation is flawed as a result of the fall. They love the pinnacle of their creation, mankind, above all else.
It therefore follows that they would hate anything that damages men, women and children.
We know that Astroturf damages the people who play sport on it; just look at the amount of scar tissue around my son’s knees after just a few years of playing hockey on it as empirical evidence of this.
So if Astroturf clearly does so much damage to people then yes, it therefore follows that Jesus hates Astroturf.
And it is a man-made replacement for the grass which God created as well!
The evidence is piling up!
Artificial turf is rubbish.
Meow