Tony, your videos are the best and your explanation is easy to understand. You are a great teacher? We just finished a solar upgrade with 900 Amps of your Big Beard batteries and it was installed by Caleb Smith. We have two Victron 3000 watt inverters and 2000 solar watts on the roof. We are heading out to Quartzite today for the Grand Design Rally 2025. I am going to be showing off the install Caleb did with all your Big Beard components. Thanks!
Great explanation, but I think you are being very conservative in your recommendations. I can run both my air conditioners and microwave at the same time on my 5000w inverter. My front A/C is a soft start equipped Furrion that draws up to 1,400w. My rear A/C is an EG-4 heat pump that typically only draws 400-500 watts, but maxes out at around 900 watts, so we'll use that. My microwave draws about 1,300 watts for a total of only 3,600 watts, giving me enough in reserve to run my TV, computer and residential fridge too (less than 1,000watts for all 3, as they are wired to run on a separate 1,000w back-up inverter in an emergency). I don't think I've ever run this many things at the same time, but it's good to know that I have the capability of doing so without exceeding the inverter's capacity.
Thank you for the kind words! So temp outside plays a huge factor on the amp draw of your ac. You may see in your experience only 1400 watts being pulled, but as temps get hotter the compressor actually has to work harder against the pressure being built up by the freon. Upwards of over 2000 watts at 100 degrees outside on a 15k btu AC. It is something we test weekly here in Texas. When I give the info it is far better to use the examples that would cover 100 % vs possibly 40-60%.
Nice summary, Todd! We've run closer to 2,800 watts on our Victron Multiplus II 3000, but that might be due to some of the loads being resistive heating, where there isn't a startup load.
sure the Victron has a 20% overload it can run for a few minutes. The 2400 comes from their dataplate located in the right corner next to the DC connections.
I live full time in my fifth wheel plugged into 50 amp. I have to play musical outlets between the microwave, electric fireplace, hairdryer and air conditioner. In the summer especially I’ve noticed that my ac doesn’t seem to be able to put out cold enough air and am wondering if it’s because it’s not getting enough power. If I bump up to 3000 watt is that enough? Do I need to get additional batteries with my 2 deep cycles I already have? I don’t want to make another mistake but I also don’t think I’ll survive another summer in this thing. Help!?!
No, 3000VA will only get you 2400W, IF you want to run multiple high wattage devices at the same time, put 2 3000VA inverters in parallel for a total of 6000VA or 4800W inverting capacity, that will be enough to run a 15kAC unit, water heater AND the microwave all at the same time...
An AC that's not getting enough power will usually trip a circuit breaker. I'm a bit confused on your setup as there are several things you didn't mention. Does the AC keep up when you're plugged in? What size inverter do you have now? Note that your batteries have nothing to do with running stuff when you're plugged in. "Musical outlets" sounds like an entirely separate wiring issue.
You shouldn't have to 'musical outlets' when you're connected to 50 amps. The problem may be that your trying to run too many appliances on one circuit, which would trip the breaker at your own panel, not at the pedestal.
So breakers trip based on current across the breaker. If the load is inductive then it would try to pull more current. However, if the supply does not produce the current then the breaker will not trip. The inverter has a torrid coil that would overheat when too much current is demanded. The inverter has sensors and logic that prevents that and causes a “current overload protection” event to take place and shuts the inverter off and allows the coil to cool. Breaker never trips.
Does it make sense to use two inverters...one for the AC and the other for everything else. This would allow a smaller more efficient inverter for the "everything else" and only turn on the AC inverter when it is needed.
Not really. The power draw of the Victron inverters is quite low. If you're going to have enough battery capacity to be able to run an AC, the additional power draw of a sizable inverter isn't enough to be concerned about. We can run either of our ACs from one Multiplus II 3000VA without issue.
So to more correctly answer your question. Your breaker panel box is either 1 hot leg or 2 in other words you either have a 30 amp rv with 1 hot leg or a 50 amp with 2 hot legs. When hooking up a whole RV inverter you send it (typically) to the entire panel box. Therefore we do not limit what the inverter supplies power to. It is up to you the end user not to ask for more load than what the AC can handle. I think what you might be asking is, should i go with 2 inverters instead of 1. If your way of RVing without much change, is to demand over 2400 watts continuous then yes Id consider 2 inverters. Right now the offerings Victron provides is a 3kva single leg or dual leg, 5kva single leg, 10k single leg. so thats 1. 3kva inverter for any rv (30amp, or 50amp) 2. 5kva inverter for 30amp 3. Two 5kva inverters for 50amp
Yo Todd, I have a question I think only you can answer: Why is it that I can plug into 30 amp shore power and yet have a converter that will produce MORE than 30 amps to charge my battery bank?
Sure thing. The 30 amps coming into the rv are at 120volts. The converter steps down the voltage to 12volts which increases the amps. The stated amps on a converter is in the DC output.
I have 2 VE Multiplus-II 2x 120V in parallel, for a total of 6000VA or 4800W inverting capacity, I can run my A/C, microwave, water heater all at the same time and still have some spare capacity, albeit very little... And the Multiplus-II 5000VA is a 24V system inverter and according to VE's own datasheet is "only" capable of 4000W(@25C)...
@@calledtojourney I needed the higher W output, and while the 5000VA would've given me 4000W, 1) it wasn't available at the time, 2) and if it had been available, it would have been 24V any, and then I would needed additional equipment for my 12V system...I WISH VE would come out with a 12V version of the Multiplus-II with a 5000VA capacity...
So just like your MP2 2x120 you have a total of 2 of them. The MP2 5kva is single leg out. If you put in a total of 2 then you have 8000watts. This offering is a wonderful item between the 3kva multiplus and the 5kva Quattro. Cost $100s less than the quattro but still pushes the same true power.
Better? 3kva is never more than 5kva. I think the understanding might be off. 2x120 simply means it can push 120v to 2 legs. not 240. Nor will it push 3kva on each leg. the MP2 only pushes a total of its stated KVA. The post you are responding on the writer says he has 2 of the MP2.
I dont think they will as the torrid coils would be as large as they are in the Quattro,. The weight difference between the 24v inverter and the 12v inveter 5kva is significant. What we often suggest is to leave 1 original 12v lead acid battery to run the 12v and let the 24v run the inverted system. This will mean the original converter is ALWAYS on which means the exisiting battery never pulls a load for charging outside of float. The FLA battery becomes the backup for large demands which are landing gear and slides. In the event the inverted system is completely dead, the 12v FLA could start the onboard genny (if equipped) to wake up the inverters to start charging again.
Great information! Thanks for sharing and safe travels!
Tony, your videos are the best and your explanation is easy to understand. You are a great teacher? We just finished a solar upgrade with 900 Amps of your Big Beard batteries and it was installed by Caleb Smith. We have two Victron 3000 watt inverters and 2000 solar watts on the roof. We are heading out to Quartzite today for the Grand Design Rally 2025. I am going to be showing off the install Caleb did with all your Big Beard components. Thanks!
Todd says thank you.
Thanks for the informative video! Keep up the good work!
Great explanation, but I think you are being very conservative in your recommendations. I can run both my air conditioners and microwave at the same time on my 5000w inverter. My front A/C is a soft start equipped Furrion that draws up to 1,400w. My rear A/C is an EG-4 heat pump that typically only draws 400-500 watts, but maxes out at around 900 watts, so we'll use that. My microwave draws about 1,300 watts for a total of only 3,600 watts, giving me enough in reserve to run my TV, computer and residential fridge too (less than 1,000watts for all 3, as they are wired to run on a separate 1,000w back-up inverter in an emergency). I don't think I've ever run this many things at the same time, but it's good to know that I have the capability of doing so without exceeding the inverter's capacity.
Thank you for the kind words!
So temp outside plays a huge factor on the amp draw of your ac. You may see in your experience only 1400 watts being pulled, but as temps get hotter the compressor actually has to work harder against the pressure being built up by the freon. Upwards of over 2000 watts at 100 degrees outside on a 15k btu AC.
It is something we test weekly here in Texas. When I give the info it is far better to use the examples that would cover 100 % vs possibly 40-60%.
Nice summary, Todd! We've run closer to 2,800 watts on our Victron Multiplus II 3000, but that might be due to some of the loads being resistive heating, where there isn't a startup load.
sure the Victron has a 20% overload it can run for a few minutes. The 2400 comes from their dataplate located in the right corner next to the DC connections.
I live full time in my fifth wheel plugged into 50 amp. I have to play musical outlets between the microwave, electric fireplace, hairdryer and air conditioner. In the summer especially I’ve noticed that my ac doesn’t seem to be able to put out cold enough air and am wondering if it’s because it’s not getting enough power. If I bump up to 3000 watt is that enough? Do I need to get additional batteries with my 2 deep cycles I already have? I don’t want to make another mistake but I also don’t think I’ll survive another summer in this thing. Help!?!
No, 3000VA will only get you 2400W, IF you want to run multiple high wattage devices at the same time, put 2 3000VA inverters in parallel for a total of 6000VA or 4800W inverting capacity, that will be enough to run a 15kAC unit, water heater AND the microwave all at the same time...
An AC that's not getting enough power will usually trip a circuit breaker.
I'm a bit confused on your setup as there are several things you didn't mention. Does the AC keep up when you're plugged in? What size inverter do you have now? Note that your batteries have nothing to do with running stuff when you're plugged in.
"Musical outlets" sounds like an entirely separate wiring issue.
You shouldn't have to 'musical outlets' when you're connected to 50 amps. The problem may be that your trying to run too many appliances on one circuit, which would trip the breaker at your own panel, not at the pedestal.
So breakers trip based on current across the breaker. If the load is inductive then it would try to pull more current. However, if the supply does not produce the current then the breaker will not trip.
The inverter has a torrid coil that would overheat when too much current is demanded. The inverter has sensors and logic that prevents that and causes a “current overload protection” event to take place and shuts the inverter off and allows the coil to cool. Breaker never trips.
Does it make sense to use two inverters...one for the AC and the other for everything else. This would allow a smaller more efficient inverter for the "everything else" and only turn on the AC inverter when it is needed.
No, run either on large inverter to run the entire system, or 2 smaller in parallel...
Not really. The power draw of the Victron inverters is quite low. If you're going to have enough battery capacity to be able to run an AC, the additional power draw of a sizable inverter isn't enough to be concerned about. We can run either of our ACs from one Multiplus II 3000VA without issue.
So to more correctly answer your question.
Your breaker panel box is either 1 hot leg or 2 in other words you either have a 30 amp rv with 1 hot leg or a 50 amp with 2 hot legs.
When hooking up a whole RV inverter you send it (typically) to the entire panel box. Therefore we do not limit what the inverter supplies power to. It is up to you the end user not to ask for more load than what the AC can handle.
I think what you might be asking is, should i go with 2 inverters instead of 1. If your way of RVing without much change, is to demand over 2400 watts continuous then yes Id consider 2 inverters.
Right now the offerings Victron provides is a 3kva single leg or dual leg, 5kva single leg, 10k single leg.
so thats
1. 3kva inverter for any rv (30amp, or 50amp)
2. 5kva inverter for 30amp
3. Two 5kva inverters for 50amp
Doesn’t Victron have one that is 2x120? Not that I have enough battery 😢
Yes, they are 12/3000/120-50...
They do but it still falls in the category of only 3kva. Not each leg but total.
Yo Todd, I have a question I think only you can answer: Why is it that I can plug into 30 amp shore power and yet have a converter that will produce MORE than 30 amps to charge my battery bank?
Sure thing.
The 30 amps coming into the rv are at 120volts. The converter steps down the voltage to 12volts which increases the amps.
The stated amps on a converter is in the DC output.
@@ToddandTonyshow man I knew you were the right guy to ask! thanks tons!
Had never heard this before. Wattage is volts times amps, P = IE. So how is a 5000 VA only 4400 watts? Thanks in advance
@@larryclark5355 power factor. Rated as ‘starting watts” vs “continuous running watts”
@@ToddandTonyshow Thank You,did NOT know,never really studied batteries
Actually a 5000VA inverter is capable of 4000W, it's VA x .8 = W...
I have 2 VE Multiplus-II 2x 120V in parallel, for a total of 6000VA or 4800W inverting capacity, I can run my A/C, microwave, water heater all at the same time and still have some spare capacity, albeit very little...
And the Multiplus-II 5000VA is a 24V system inverter and according to VE's own datasheet is "only" capable of 4000W(@25C)...
Yes, I was thinking that dual 3000VA Multiplus II units were better than the 5000VA. And I think that the batteries could be charged faster too.
@@calledtojourney I needed the higher W output, and while the 5000VA would've given me 4000W, 1) it wasn't available at the time, 2) and if it had been available, it would have been 24V any, and then I would needed additional equipment for my 12V system...I WISH VE would come out with a 12V version of the Multiplus-II with a 5000VA capacity...
So just like your MP2 2x120 you have a total of 2 of them. The MP2 5kva is single leg out. If you put in a total of 2 then you have 8000watts.
This offering is a wonderful item between the 3kva multiplus and the 5kva Quattro. Cost $100s less than the quattro but still pushes the same true power.
Better? 3kva is never more than 5kva. I think the understanding might be off. 2x120 simply means it can push 120v to 2 legs. not 240. Nor will it push 3kva on each leg. the MP2 only pushes a total of its stated KVA.
The post you are responding on the writer says he has 2 of the MP2.
I dont think they will as the torrid coils would be as large as they are in the Quattro,. The weight difference between the 24v inverter and the 12v inveter 5kva is significant.
What we often suggest is to leave 1 original 12v lead acid battery to run the 12v and let the 24v run the inverted system. This will mean the original converter is ALWAYS on which means the exisiting battery never pulls a load for charging outside of float. The FLA battery becomes the backup for large demands which are landing gear and slides.
In the event the inverted system is completely dead, the 12v FLA could start the onboard genny (if equipped) to wake up the inverters to start charging again.