Honestly, Helios and Banshee should work. It's an oversight in terms of written logic. Devs decided to not count these as "weakpoints". This is a huge disappointment.
What really got me about the new frame and banshee is that they still have augmented sonar in the list of augment mods for banshee yet Cyte-09 gets it augmentless and while invisible
@alfonsobenitez1269 my problem with de and players is that they cant seem to have standards... why are we continuing to make new dumb shit when we still have shit passive and broken old warframe that definitely need a rework and touch up
This is not a bug, just confusing wording. The "Weak Point Damage" mods are actually Headshot Damage mods, like Target Acquired. They changed the wording to weak points because some enemies like Eidolons have "Head" body part regions that are not the head of the enemy. I think they should alter the wording on Sonar to not conflate it with the enemy's Weak Point. edit: a good way to understand it is this. Anything that gives Incarnon Charge will be affected by Acuity, target acquired, etc.
@@MorningStrife honestly thinking about it more they should just change Sonar to highlight weakpoints and grant bonus weakpoint damage, rather than generate new ones. The body part selection has always been finicky anyway
not even surprised the wording is bad. there are others examples but here is the one I noticed I remember in Deimos with arcana vault mission it say/said (still there or not, been a while I didn't went there) i'll say "tier x" because I don't remember the names and it's more figurable telling tiers than names) (OM T1 means "orokin matrix tier 1") description written in-game: - stage 1, rewards: OM T1 x2 or OM T2 x2 or OM T3 x2 - stage 2, rewards: OM T1 x4 or OM T2 x4 or OM T3 x4 - stage 3, rewards: OM T1 x6 or OM T2 x6 or OM T3 x6 in reality (I tried somewhere near 60 to 100 missions so I CAN TELL OK) - stage 1, rewards: OM T1 x 1 - 3 - stage 2, rewards: OM T2 x 1 - 3 - stage 3, rewards: OM T3 x1 - 3 how I noticed ? spending a whole afternoon farming orokin matrices on stage 1 and getting only the tier 1 matrices and not being able to build a necramech part = not finishing my 1rst necramech. this led me to suck hard at doing a mission giving basically 1 arcane per rotation & more if I could damn stay and help farm points in parallel with clan members. the few that were farming it didn't remembered which arcana vault they farmed to get them and I had little to no time.
Honestly, one of the few things I think they could do to improve Banshee is exactly what you are saying. Weak points should count as headshots for the mods that take headshots into account.
Yeah and I was so hyped to put the evade helminth on her only to find out the other day that sonar spots aren’t really weak points just extra damage spots. I hope they listen to this and make it an actual thing for her (for the Helios precept mod)
This just seems like an oversight but I was hoping for the same thing I love Banshee and she's so slept on so giving her a nudge in popularity with a solid survival option to make it a little more chill to survive as her would have been perfect.
Honestly I think if Banshee ever does get a rework the main things they need to fix are these weak points being fixed to be "real" weak points like we think of them for the rest of the game now (kind of like Frost and Nyx have gained real status effects for their cold and radiation status abilities) on top of doing really just anything to make her 4 usable again. The wording is confusing and should be changed but why not just rework her finally lol
@@kartikpintu they did a minor rework for loki. That would be about all that's really needed for banshee. There's always hope. There's no direct money to be made with reworks so they have to do them whenever there is some time to spare I guess. As I said there's always hope :)
My friend and I were literally just theory crafting this build yesterday and joking around saying the new frame isnt Cyte, its Banshee. Alas, DE spaghetti coding and confusion on its own game mechanics strikes again. It sucks especially with the update having such cool and interesting shit in it as well. I really hope they make her weakpoints work with these, it would be a huge qol improvement and give her some much needed love.
Ano5her reason banshee needs overhaul, now they added weakpoints, her sonar can highlight weakpoint like cyte 09 ability. Maybe she is on the roster of rework
There are many many weapons in this game that grant specific benefits for getting weak point hits/kills. Same with something galvanized scope. They’ve never worked on banshee because she doesn’t create new weak points, sonar is its own thing where you just get a damage multiplier for hitting the sonar spot on the enemy. This is also why if the sonar is on their head, you get the weak point multiplier and also the sonar multiplier.
I really wish ivara’s helminthed quiver was the full quiver because in the simulacrum not only is cyte so much fun with dashwire, he also takes insane advantage of empowered quiver, cyte is so much more fun than ivara for me but for that playstyle please i absolutely adore the spiderweb playstyle for sneaky big damage
Banshee Main Here: Sonar does not actually add weak points, per se. It marks a limb. If you hit that limb, you get the damage multiplication listed for Sonar. If a sonar spot is on a thigh, the foot can count as the same limb as the thigh and thus you can shoot a toe and it'll get the bonus in that case. Limbs can have multiple sonar spots, and the spots' damage bonus multiplies with eachother. If your sonar is 5x damage, having two on a thigh gets you 25x when shooting the toe. It doesn't need to count as a weakpoint. Banshee already deals more damage than you will ever need. It's not intended, and would be broken if they're allowed to count. In fact, you can see what that looks like. If two weakspots form on a head, they become 25x and then get multiplied damage from the headshot (x2) AND it works with acuity when crit damage already double dips with the headshot multiplier. You're asking for insanity and it's not worth asking for it to be fixed as it would likely mean nerfing Sonar at base to get it to work. Making it weaker at baseline isn't needed. The numbers would need to be tweaked in very specific ways for it to be fair and for it to feel good. Banshee is not weak in the slightest. Her damage isn't an issue, it's her survivability that's suspect. And she has Cyto-9's Evade as a helminth option. She's eating good this update.
No one said Banshee is weak, and she is relatively easy to understand, it also seems that YES it was intended to make the weak points she creates to scale with weak point modifiers DE just didnt get to it, case closed (FYI same thing should be happening with citrine, they just didnt get to reworking the weakpoint system yet)
@@morning8590 Did they happen to say anything on Helios' weakpoint working too? I want in on this conversation as I'm interested in Banshee related things.
@@morning8590 It would appear there are currently no plans to fix this. [DE]Pablo has said that while it was considered as a neat synergy idea, it would require reworking the entire weakpoint system and that takes away time from developing less Niche things. That's unfortunate, I misread your comment. There appears to not be anything ongoing for addressing this. EDIT: This also clarifies that Sonar and Citrine's ability technically are not weakpoints, but it has been considered at least. It's good to know it's not forgotten about.
@@kittentamer2164 yea i mean thats fine, the fact that they acknowledged it, means they done goofed imo, thats always they best way to figure out if something is meant to be intended, for example some enemies have weakpoints outside of heads, especially inside 1999 its more common now, stuff like their backpacs etc etc these also build for example incarnon meter, so i get what your saying with it not being intended, they are clearly coded differently yes, BUT what I am saying is, its an oversight, and I dont like them saying that a weakpoint system would have to be rebuilt, in my mind it would kind of just have to work like an event switch, so if sonar is cast, all highlighted parts swap to weakpoint modifier, something like that, my point with all the "critisism" videos are not to insult DE, they are to point out things i think would be generally good for a warframe or the general eco system :) just trying to improve the game with ideas and stuff, hence why i think this is an oversight, oversights happen, no big deal, but imo yes they need to then rework the weakpoint system slightly to include warframes that specialize in creating new weakpoint, I also think helios should be included in this, if they said no they dont want to include it, then fine, but they didnt, they said it would require work, meaning that they also think it should be that way but would take to much work, THATS what i dont like hearing, hope that makes sense :)
Weak points are just the enemy’s “headshot” hitboxes. Banshees sonar are a completely different mechanic that don’t interact at all. I assume this is intentional because getting the bonus headshot multiplier on top of the 5x damage multiplier at base would be incredibly strong.
Not just headshots, its also like some enemies like moas having different weakpoints, and the new factions having also multiple, the point of sonar, is it creates NEW weakpoints, they should imo work the exact same, since thats her whole thing, unless they just want to make her MAKE weakpoints more vulnerable, that could be a fix
I actually tested this on day one, sonar doesn’t work with the new weak point mods but the detect vulnerability for helios did work but the results were very inconsistent. Probably due to how small the weak points helios makes. My guess it that it should be working with sonar since detect vulnerability is just a mini sonar and if it works for one it should be working for the other but it’s bugged or something
It’s on you for assuming that anything would work with Banshees sonar. Sonar hasn’t worked on anything you would actually want it to since she was released, outside of Sisters. They’ve kept this ability reigned in for nearly a decade.
Perhaps they don’t stack because imagine the damage if banshee placed a weak point on a head or other spot that is already a weak point? There would need to be a seriously look into this to avoid double dipping
Sadly is not an oversight, Pablo said yesterday on twitter that Citrine's ans Banshee's "weak points" are not real weak points, they intended to make an interaction between these two frames with Cyte 09's Evade skill, but said it would mean a rework on the weakpoint system and would take focus on other stuff qnq
Sigh....so its pure lazyness lol they should rework the system, its unclear and finicky, and exploitable quite easily by multi CO, but thats good that they acknowledged it atleast, thanks for letting me know :)
I thought the exact same thing and ive been waiting to see if evade worked for her (helminth done in a few hours). I agree that the way it's worded, u would think it would work. I'm really sad to see that it doesnt... Maybe you'll convince them though since it is weak points created by sonar, but I think the top comment is most likely correct and it wasn't supposed to work with her.... I mean she's already pretty broken, and evade will still be viable. We will just have to spam (like we kinda already did) to get her weak points to spawn on enemies heads...
Yeah, I don't think it's a bug but wording/consistency is poor. Banshee is doing increased dmg on highlighted body parts, and Sonar highlights parts and adds multiplier. It doesn't make that highlighted body part a weak point. In the most logical approach, it's a "weak point" because it takes more damage, but it only takes more damage because of Sonar highlight and not because this point is a traditional weak point
there already has been something that cares for weakpoints that doesnt work with banshees weakpoints. i cant remember what that thing was, but im not surprised these mods dont work with banshees weakpoints. not saying they shouldnt, but im not surprised about the current state.
People already trying to nerf a squishy frame 😢 poor dagath is so bad now that she needs fixed after her nerf. Most frames are balanced towards steelpath.
I just wish she was fun to play and not a one trick pony, glass cannon, and a 2 ability frame with one of them being her subsume. 10 years boring and out of place.
Honestly, Helios and Banshee should work. It's an oversight in terms of written logic. Devs decided to not count these as "weakpoints".
This is a huge disappointment.
Exactly man. I was really hoping Detect Vulnerability would proc this 😢.
What really got me about the new frame and banshee is that they still have augmented sonar in the list of augment mods for banshee yet Cyte-09 gets it augmentless and while invisible
Power creep dude
FR@@Massolgy
@alfonsobenitez1269 my problem with de and players is that they cant seem to have standards... why are we continuing to make new dumb shit when we still have shit passive and broken old warframe that definitely need a rework and touch up
@@Massolgylike Oberon
This is not a bug, just confusing wording. The "Weak Point Damage" mods are actually Headshot Damage mods, like Target Acquired. They changed the wording to weak points because some enemies like Eidolons have "Head" body part regions that are not the head of the enemy.
I think they should alter the wording on Sonar to not conflate it with the enemy's Weak Point.
edit: a good way to understand it is this. Anything that gives Incarnon Charge will be affected by Acuity, target acquired, etc.
@@MorningStrife honestly thinking about it more they should just change Sonar to highlight weakpoints and grant bonus weakpoint damage, rather than generate new ones. The body part selection has always been finicky anyway
@@theninjaguy2 Fully Agree yea, just make the change now that we are focusing on it
not even surprised the wording is bad. there are others examples but here is the one I noticed
I remember in Deimos with arcana vault mission it say/said (still there or not, been a while I didn't went there) i'll say "tier x" because I don't remember the names and it's more figurable telling tiers than names)
(OM T1 means "orokin matrix tier 1")
description written in-game:
- stage 1, rewards: OM T1 x2 or OM T2 x2 or OM T3 x2
- stage 2, rewards: OM T1 x4 or OM T2 x4 or OM T3 x4
- stage 3, rewards: OM T1 x6 or OM T2 x6 or OM T3 x6
in reality (I tried somewhere near 60 to 100 missions so I CAN TELL OK)
- stage 1, rewards: OM T1 x 1 - 3
- stage 2, rewards: OM T2 x 1 - 3
- stage 3, rewards: OM T3 x1 - 3
how I noticed ? spending a whole afternoon farming orokin matrices on stage 1 and getting only the tier 1 matrices and not being able to build a necramech part = not finishing my 1rst necramech.
this led me to suck hard at doing a mission giving basically 1 arcane per rotation & more if I could damn stay and help farm points in parallel with clan members. the few that were farming it didn't remembered which arcana vault they farmed to get them and I had little to no time.
@@theninjaguy2 this would be way worse for any Aoe weapon on banshee
@@AMV_KINGDOM_mv How do aoe weapons interact with sonar?
Thanks for testing this it was definitely something I had thought about and was looking forward to playing with hope they fix this
Honestly, one of the few things I think they could do to improve Banshee is exactly what you are saying. Weak points should count as headshots for the mods that take headshots into account.
Yeah and I was so hyped to put the evade helminth on her only to find out the other day that sonar spots aren’t really weak points just extra damage spots. I hope they listen to this and make it an actual thing for her (for the Helios precept mod)
I was wondering about all that, so thank you for doing the work and sharing with us.
I'm glad you did this before I wasted resources putting evade on Banshee.
Very well made testing video. Appreciate that
This just seems like an oversight but I was hoping for the same thing I love Banshee and she's so slept on so giving her a nudge in popularity with a solid survival option to make it a little more chill to survive as her would have been perfect.
Honestly I think if Banshee ever does get a rework the main things they need to fix are these weak points being fixed to be "real" weak points like we think of them for the rest of the game now (kind of like Frost and Nyx have gained real status effects for their cold and radiation status abilities) on top of doing really just anything to make her 4 usable again. The wording is confusing and should be changed but why not just rework her finally lol
That's actually so sad, my beautiful Banshee ):
OK, but can this banshee drop kick my grandpa?
I agree with this id say get pops poblo to rework the 2 it's always been finicky.
So looking forward to a Banshee rework/retool.
DE says no rework for banshee, just like loki
@@kartikpintu they did a minor rework for loki. That would be about all that's really needed for banshee. There's always hope. There's no direct money to be made with reworks so they have to do them whenever there is some time to spare I guess. As I said there's always hope :)
@@kartikpintu and Oberon :(
My friend and I were literally just theory crafting this build yesterday and joking around saying the new frame isnt Cyte, its Banshee. Alas, DE spaghetti coding and confusion on its own game mechanics strikes again. It sucks especially with the update having such cool and interesting shit in it as well. I really hope they make her weakpoints work with these, it would be a huge qol improvement and give her some much needed love.
Ano5her reason banshee needs overhaul, now they added weakpoints, her sonar can highlight weakpoint like cyte 09 ability. Maybe she is on the roster of rework
Not highlight weakpoint
But make a certain body part multiplier higher then normal
There are many many weapons in this game that grant specific benefits for getting weak point hits/kills. Same with something galvanized scope. They’ve never worked on banshee because she doesn’t create new weak points, sonar is its own thing where you just get a damage multiplier for hitting the sonar spot on the enemy. This is also why if the sonar is on their head, you get the weak point multiplier and also the sonar multiplier.
I really wish ivara’s helminthed quiver was the full quiver because in the simulacrum not only is cyte so much fun with dashwire, he also takes insane advantage of empowered quiver, cyte is so much more fun than ivara for me but for that playstyle please i absolutely adore the spiderweb playstyle for sneaky big damage
You should see where a certain amalgam unit has their headshot area
was about to test that myself, thanks for saving me some time. Still a shame it doesn't work, would have been a nice buff to her kit :D
bro i was ive been using evade on banshee as soon as i helmithed cyte, i put max duration on her so she can survive
I was ive been 😢
Dem, love banshee invi, i think thats the best part of your video
Banshee Main Here: Sonar does not actually add weak points, per se. It marks a limb. If you hit that limb, you get the damage multiplication listed for Sonar. If a sonar spot is on a thigh, the foot can count as the same limb as the thigh and thus you can shoot a toe and it'll get the bonus in that case.
Limbs can have multiple sonar spots, and the spots' damage bonus multiplies with eachother. If your sonar is 5x damage, having two on a thigh gets you 25x when shooting the toe. It doesn't need to count as a weakpoint. Banshee already deals more damage than you will ever need.
It's not intended, and would be broken if they're allowed to count. In fact, you can see what that looks like. If two weakspots form on a head, they become 25x and then get multiplied damage from the headshot (x2) AND it works with acuity when crit damage already double dips with the headshot multiplier.
You're asking for insanity and it's not worth asking for it to be fixed as it would likely mean nerfing Sonar at base to get it to work. Making it weaker at baseline isn't needed. The numbers would need to be tweaked in very specific ways for it to be fair and for it to feel good.
Banshee is not weak in the slightest. Her damage isn't an issue, it's her survivability that's suspect. And she has Cyto-9's Evade as a helminth option. She's eating good this update.
No one said Banshee is weak, and she is relatively easy to understand, it also seems that YES it was intended to make the weak points she creates to scale with weak point modifiers DE just didnt get to it, case closed (FYI same thing should be happening with citrine, they just didnt get to reworking the weakpoint system yet)
@@morning8590 Did they happen to say anything on Helios' weakpoint working too? I want in on this conversation as I'm interested in Banshee related things.
@@morning8590 It would appear there are currently no plans to fix this. [DE]Pablo has said that while it was considered as a neat synergy idea, it would require reworking the entire weakpoint system and that takes away time from developing less Niche things. That's unfortunate, I misread your comment. There appears to not be anything ongoing for addressing this.
EDIT: This also clarifies that Sonar and Citrine's ability technically are not weakpoints, but it has been considered at least. It's good to know it's not forgotten about.
@@kittentamer2164 yea i mean thats fine, the fact that they acknowledged it, means they done goofed imo, thats always they best way to figure out if something is meant to be intended, for example some enemies have weakpoints outside of heads, especially inside 1999 its more common now, stuff like their backpacs etc etc these also build for example incarnon meter, so i get what your saying with it not being intended, they are clearly coded differently yes, BUT what I am saying is, its an oversight, and I dont like them saying that a weakpoint system would have to be rebuilt, in my mind it would kind of just have to work like an event switch, so if sonar is cast, all highlighted parts swap to weakpoint modifier, something like that, my point with all the "critisism" videos are not to insult DE, they are to point out things i think would be generally good for a warframe or the general eco system :) just trying to improve the game with ideas and stuff, hence why i think this is an oversight, oversights happen, no big deal, but imo yes they need to then rework the weakpoint system slightly to include warframes that specialize in creating new weakpoint, I also think helios should be included in this, if they said no they dont want to include it, then fine, but they didnt, they said it would require work, meaning that they also think it should be that way but would take to much work, THATS what i dont like hearing, hope that makes sense :)
Weak points are just the enemy’s “headshot” hitboxes. Banshees sonar are a completely different mechanic that don’t interact at all.
I assume this is intentional because getting the bonus headshot multiplier on top of the 5x damage multiplier at base would be incredibly strong.
Not just headshots, its also like some enemies like moas having different weakpoints, and the new factions having also multiple, the point of sonar, is it creates NEW weakpoints, they should imo work the exact same, since thats her whole thing, unless they just want to make her MAKE weakpoints more vulnerable, that could be a fix
@ that’s why I put headshots in quotes bc not all “headshots” are the actual head
One of the amalgam units has their "headshot weakpoint" on their left leg middle segment
I actually tested this on day one, sonar doesn’t work with the new weak point mods but the detect vulnerability for helios did work but the results were very inconsistent. Probably due to how small the weak points helios makes. My guess it that it should be working with sonar since detect vulnerability is just a mini sonar and if it works for one it should be working for the other but it’s bugged or something
It’s on you for assuming that anything would work with Banshees sonar. Sonar hasn’t worked on anything you would actually want it to since she was released, outside of Sisters. They’ve kept this ability reigned in for nearly a decade.
Perhaps they don’t stack because imagine the damage if banshee placed a weak point on a head or other spot that is already a weak point? There would need to be a seriously look into this to avoid double dipping
Sadly is not an oversight, Pablo said yesterday on twitter that Citrine's ans Banshee's "weak points" are not real weak points, they intended to make an interaction between these two frames with Cyte 09's Evade skill, but said it would mean a rework on the weakpoint system and would take focus on other stuff qnq
Sigh....so its pure lazyness lol they should rework the system, its unclear and finicky, and exploitable quite easily by multi CO, but thats good that they acknowledged it atleast, thanks for letting me know :)
So sad they did my girl like this :(
I thought the exact same thing and ive been waiting to see if evade worked for her (helminth done in a few hours). I agree that the way it's worded, u would think it would work. I'm really sad to see that it doesnt... Maybe you'll convince them though since it is weak points created by sonar, but I think the top comment is most likely correct and it wasn't supposed to work with her.... I mean she's already pretty broken, and evade will still be viable. We will just have to spam (like we kinda already did) to get her weak points to spawn on enemies heads...
Yeah, I don't think it's a bug but wording/consistency is poor. Banshee is doing increased dmg on highlighted body parts, and Sonar highlights parts and adds multiplier. It doesn't make that highlighted body part a weak point. In the most logical approach, it's a "weak point" because it takes more damage, but it only takes more damage because of Sonar highlight and not because this point is a traditional weak point
there already has been something that cares for weakpoints that doesnt work with banshees weakpoints. i cant remember what that thing was, but im not surprised these mods dont work with banshees weakpoints. not saying they shouldnt, but im not surprised about the current state.
Indeed broken
How can you tell if the augment Worthy Comradery is working?
Aura
People already trying to nerf a squishy frame 😢 poor dagath is so bad now that she needs fixed after her nerf. Most frames are balanced towards steelpath.
I just wish she was fun to play and not a one trick pony, glass cannon, and a 2 ability frame with one of them being her subsume. 10 years boring and out of place.
should citines crystals be weak points to
is this the same for helios as well?
WHERE’S MY RECONIFEX VID, HUUHHH?
gg
Dont get my baby girl nerfed, i gotta gate keep
did you even watch the video loool ´´broken as in not working´´ she needs fixes, most mods are not taking the weakpoints she makes into account.
@@sebpolj1612 I indeed did, they're working for me. I hit damage cap with Paris on her weak points