I was sexually assaulted, when my grandmother was told she said I shouldn't have sat in his lap, or dressed immodest. I was only 9 years old. This is a huge problem in our society 😕
I'm having trouble understanding what happened because of your grammar. I'm sorry I brought that up but it's important to make your message clear. I'm sorry you were molested.
@@godzilla964 it's perfectly readable. Also sorry op, I hope you know it was entirely the perpetrators fault and not your own. It's difficult to live with but at least you're still here. Sorry :
My grandmother told me my mother's husband had the right to for me not being biologically his. When she learned my mother was joining in, she continued to make excuses. I was 6. I continued to live my life as if my genitals belonged to whomever demanded them. Not the way to go and it took me too many wasted years of my life to realise I owned my body.
@@kbbrown8154 What the- WHAT, WHAAAT, NOO, THE FUCK? ARE THERE PARENTS WHO ACTUALLY DO THIS SHIT? I'm sorry you went through all that, just, what kind of fucking parents are those monsters!? That is horrible, just absolutely disgusting behavior. I can't believe the absolute audacity of your grandmother to say such crap too. I seriously hope you're okay nowadays, no amount of justification could explain the horrid things your parents did to you. I am grateful that I was born in a relatively good family, life is just so unfair to some people, and I don't know how to feel about it.
I read somewhere: " if you say that to prevent assault you should dress more modest, you are really saying make sure he assaults another girl. There is always a more provocatively dressed girl, drunker and in a worse part of town than me, and I want her to be safe just as much as I am."
Evangelical men: "women should look like women but should dress without pointing out that they're women but they can't not point out that they're women because then they look like men and that's trans"
Yes. Be feminine and cute, but not too much. Don't you dare neglect your femininity, Take care of your appearance, but try to look effortless while doing it, otherwise we'll shame you for being vain.
they make the rules so arbitrary and impossible to navigate. They set girls and women up to fail so men can blame women and always avoid responsibility for their own thoughts and actions.
"Men can't control their lust." That's what is said in churches. "Men are helpless to control their thoughts when a woman is in the room, unless she makes herself undesirable." Literally what is said by ministers from the pulpit in every church in the land. I was once shamed about touching the arm of a man who wouldn't pay attention to something important he needed to know before going into an (all male) session of the elders' board. The men in the church interpreted that touch as an invitation to sin. That's how misogynist church is. "All sin came from Eve, and women have been messing men up ever since."
That sounds like a very relatable problem someone from my old country would have but I didnt imagine the same would be true of the US. The more I learn about Christian extremists, the more I think they would be far more happy living with the Taliban and if that is too extreme, they would be better suited to my old country, Pakistan and let people like me, a progressive Muslim who believes in a pluralistic multicultural society being the best way forward, live here. Pakistan even officially protects their religion because the same blasphemy law they complain about when they want to bash Muslims also protects all religions in Pakistan, including Christianity. They are free to move there, people even speak English in the 3 major cities and the largest city, Karachi, leans socially conservative in every way. I am not even exaggerating, they would honestly be happier there.
As an SA survivor I can assure you that modesty did not save me from males prying eyes. Mainly because my rapist was a conservative Christian woman who told me to remain pure for men.
@jack hammer SA is highest where women are forced to dress the most conservatively, so your little theory doesn't check out. Start holding men accountable for their actions instead of ousting the blame and responsibility on women all the time. Now, I know a lot of men love using women as a scapegoat to avoid accountability when it comes to their actions but it really is time for men to be held accountable.
Christian dads: "My daughters should dress more modestly." Also Christian dads: "It's perfectly okay to refer to my daughter's fashion choices as "hot." There is nothing gross about that at all."
93% of sexual offenders declare themselves as religious! Maybe these horrible ideologies are hidden in the place that *child molestation* is incredibly prevalent, for some reason. *cough*the church*cough*
@@lyokianhitchhiker dont daughters usually look like younger versions of their mothers? How did they get a daughter if they werent willing to smash their mother in the first place?
I still remember the absolute horror I felt when I accidentally went to school without a bra in sixth grade. I hid in the back of all the classes and had my arms over my chest the whole day. I called my mom crying asking to bring a hoodie but I couldn’t bring myself to say the word bra or explain the situation because I didn’t want to get in trouble for being inappropriate. An eleven year old shouldn’t have to worry about that kind of thing.
When my wife and I were dating in bible college, she and the other women in the women's dorm had 2 hour meeting about why they couldn't wear leggings. When they were let go, she encapsulated her feelings in a beautifully frustrated and articulate quote saying, "God forbid women have a body!" Still my favorite quote of all time.
I took a criminal justice course, and one of the cases in our book was this I think 6-8 yo girl. The defense really did try and make the case that this child tempted her assaulter. It's heartbreaking, horrible, I felt like throwing up when I read that
Incidentally, the Duggars are a perfect example for why dressing modestly does not "prevent your brother from stumbling" considering the oldest son's crimes against his young sisters
Part of the issue with the Duggars (and other modesty obsessed fundie families) is by obsessing over what their kids wear, as well as their kids bodies and sexuality from an early age; they actually end up creating hypersexual kids with taboos and strange fetishes that don't occur with normal people. It happens because young kids don't fully grasp all this stuff anyway but naturally want to push boundaries and explore, so the kids brain developes trying to make sense of sexual stuff it shouldn't know, and once they understand it all they've already developed strange thoughts and behaviors on the matter, often related to their family. Whereas kids of liberal parents who don't care about all this modesty bs generally find out about all this stuff naturally a couple years older and by other peers so it isn't so weird. In the end all this family modesty, purity and body obsession nonsense is just begging for incest problems. It's gross 🤢
Have you ever thought about how the favorite phrase of modesty is to "leave something to the imagination," meaning that modest women will have men *imagining* what their bodies look like underneath their clothing? Also fun fact, societies which have been in warmer climates have had less sexualizing and fetishizing of breasts because they were not covered up, making breasts *not* a secret thing that only men who have sex with her get to see?
Yeah, stuff like this always reminds me of stories about how men in Victorian times actually started blushing when they saw a woman's ankle (say, when they were walking up a set of stairs behind her), exactly _because_ ankles were always supposed to be covered up and effectively sexualized that way. On the other hand, our appearance, especially our primary and secondary sexual organs, simply _do_ cause sexual arousal (depending on their "attractiveness", which basically originates from how healthy and able to bear/support children someone is, which is why in women, youthful appearance and medium-sized breasts tend to be perceived as attractive by most, while in men, it's outward shows of "successfulness" (social and economic) as well as physical prowess (ability to hunt and defend)). It's all relative of course, but denying the underlying instincts is at best just plain ignorant, at worst an attempt to deceive.
@@Wolf-ln1ml Undeniable that many body parts are naturally sexualized. But paradoxaly not all of them are hided. Example: female waist to hip ratio, considered the most sexual feminine aspect, is clearly shown or even enphasized through clothes. Also male forearms, male shoulders. And we can't forget we show the most sexual aspect of a person: the face.
@@stefanisilva2493 "Waist to hip ratio" is not a thing everywhere. 🙄 I don't remember hearing this nonsense from Western males when skinny women were trendy. Western trends keep changing and not everyone thinks the same. There are still cultures where skinny is more fashionable (e.g. S Korea). Have you seen Chinese clothing sizes? I would probably come under L/XL in their culture! Breasts are seen as sexual in many cultures. For example, I've heard that in Japan if you wear shorts it's fine but if you expose cleavage, it's seen as bad.
@@dearrationals You didn't see because people take centuries to express verbally what they feel uncontiously and express through art and culture first. But artists already talked about this concept in classes and books even from 80s. Even Barbie Doll, the epitomy of skinny women had a wonderfull waist to hip ratio, and so did many sculptures, paintings etc. And my point is that even sexualized parts are not always hidden. In India, belly and hair are sexualized and emphasized, not hidden.
@@Wolf-ln1ml There may be some, of course but your explanation is too simplistic or even outdated. Nowadays, in places where women have more choices and are not shamed for them, plenty of them go for men they find physically attractive as well. Women are also physically attracted to men. Some westerners keep making sweeping statements about humans and the planet. Across cultures, there are differences. For example, there is a tribe that has a ceremony where men are the ones who paint their faces and do certain movements/dances to attract women. Some cultures promote skinny as beautiful and some a different body type. In some cultures, men shave their pubic/armpit hair as it's seen as more hygienic. And there are also individual differences and preferences. Some women prefer men with shaved chests and others don't. Some prefer them without beards. Look at S Korea, I don't remember seeing a Kpop idol with a beard. Humans change, societies change, people and cultures vary.
I’m an SA victim myself, modesty or immodesty did absolutely NOTHING to protect me from being assaulted by a man when I was in my pajamas at 15 years old. These people are delusional
The line about "causing your brother in Christ to stumble" reminds me a lot of a line from the song Hellfire from the Hunchback of Notre Dame: "It's not my fault! I'm not to blame! It was the gypsy girl, the witch who set this flame! It's not my fault, if in God's plan, He made the Devil so much stronger than a man!" The last thing Frollo wanted to do was take personal responsibility for his lust, so he blamed Esmerelda, her people, the Devil, and even God, to some extent. edit: people have pointed out that "gypsy" is considered derogatory. I apologize if I offended anyone, I wasn't aware
@Zoe Collette Less offensive back in 1996. Plus it was Frollo. He's the type of character who would not only casually throw a slur around, but feel all the more righteous for doing so.
@@Gloomdrake You should watch the song. It's usually on lists of best Disney villain songs as the first or second best. The performance is great, the writing is great, but above all it's the characterisation of Frollo - a man who can commit the most terrible acts because he is always able to convince himself that he is doing good. Even when struggling with self-loathing he can direct the blame for his own shortcomings upon everyone but himself, and emerge with an assurance that everything he desires is somehow justified.
I will always use the analogy of being hungry in a restaurant: you don't snatch food off passing trays, and you don't blame the person who ordered the food for your growling stomach, so why would you blame a woman for your feelings?
You do if you're starving, which is what our religious patriarchs have set up for themselves. They gained political power by regulating the distribution of rice. But this doesn't stop us from drooling over the wax models in sushi restaurant windows. The solution for this was to put all the sushi in purdah. But a better idea would be for marriage to grant a man a license to everything on the menu, not just his own entree. Honestly, if ladies would just be the slightest bit charitable to men who needed a snack (they're all pretty much the same anyway) we wouldn't be so uptight all the time. There would be a lot less bickering about how they were dressed.
@@paulpinecone2464 you seem to be confused, friend: the woman in the analogy isn't the food, the woman is the person who *ordered* the food. Berating a woman for being dressed in a way is like yelling at someone who ordered something that made you hungrier when it passed your table. And the actual consequences you're advocating for is forcing people to eat things, even if they're not hungry, allergic, or find it disgusting. Why would you wish that on someone?
Evangelicals: "Women should be dressed appropriately and not show much skin." Also Evangelicals: "Look at these poor women in [insert place] who have to wear Burkas, that is not what America is about."
To be fair, there's a pretty big difference between what most evangelicals would consider acceptable (think t-shirts and mid-length shorts) and not an inch of skin visible.
*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started seeing the world through our eyes rather than through God's eyes that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence evil actions, immoral character does.* *But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7*
My female boss once gave me a list of 3 outfits she doesn't like on me because they reveal too much cleavage. When I told her I was gonna keep wearing them, she told me "well, don't come complaining when you elicit unwanted attention from your male co-workers. Or maybe it wouldn't be unwanted?" The funny thing is, she actually meant well. She was nice about the whole thing. Did my outfits show some cleavage? Yes, which is why I like them. Now if a male co-worker tries to touch me or offend me, I'll feel entitled to tell him to stop. You know what's funny though? She later told me I was dressing like a potato sack as off late, and I should find myself more fitted shirts. People, you just can't win this game hahs
We live in a society that has created a paradox about sex. It's both an obsession and dirty/shameful at the same time. But going even further, we continue to consider bodies to be inherently sexual. In many cultures, this isn't a thing.
I saw a simple point about sexuality being for men. The whole idea is that women don't get to do that stuff for themselves. Women are only supposed to be sexual for men and with intention. It's such a stupid thing that's just infected so many cultures.
It’s weird to think about the origin of modesty, did one cave man look at a naked woman and say “hey uh, I want to sleep with you now and can’t hunt so you’re gonna need to fig leaf those warlocks”
A society of where pornography is defended as free speech, but you'll go straight to jail for public nudity. I don't support either of those things, but I find the hipocrisy downright enraging.
@@SusRing The difference is primarily consent*; you are consenting to watching porn, you are not consenting to seeing some random person walking down the street with their genitals flapping about. As far as I'm concerned though, if men can walk around topless, I should be allowed to walk around with my tits out. *The issue of consent within the p*rn industry is a whole other can of worms on its own that I'm certain we already fall on the same side of.
@@hihowareyatoday573 They do. The Bible also implies that our bodies belong to our fathers. So our bodies belong to God, our fathers, our husbands, and we have to dress for every man that sees us, so our bodies kina belong to them too. So it seems like every man owns our bodies, but we don't... 😬
It's also insulting to insinuate that dressing "provocatively" tempts men like me to commit atrocities. It might tempt some fucked up dudes, but like it was pointed out, it's not about the clothing. I can control myself very fucking well thank you very much, and I'd like to say that on behalf of all my male friends too. "Modesty" is insulting to everyone and incorrectly frames the issue
Predators look for easy targets and circumstances where they won’t get caught and can easily overpower their target. It’s not really about how “tempted” they are by you. If they want to assault or rape a woman, they have most likely already planned to.
I was touched by my stepfather when I was 15 and I was a victim of sexual assault at 21. I called the police and they told me boys will be boys and asked if it wasn’t just a “ sex thing we did “. The police told me my case won’t go anywhere because they didn’t have enough evidence. When I opened up to my family, they told me I shouldn’t have invited him over and asked what I was wearing. My cousin even called me “ damaged goods”. My family is very religious and they subscribe to purity culture. Purity culture often blames young girls and doesn’t hold men accountable.
That makes me so mad. We had an Evangelical church hiding under a different name in my community so they didn't have as strong of a hold where I'm from. I think it made a difference because our school had police officers come to talk to us about sexual assault. They were adamant that sex offenders NEVER remember what the girl was wearing, despite how prevalent it is in society to always blame it on what the girl was wearing. We were a town of about 800 people. Why isn't this more widespread!?!
This makes me so sad. Like, the idea of girls being sent home from school and losing out on education opportunities because their bodies are "distracting" or "inappropriate." That's so ridiculous.
@@jonathanxavier2026 If you are asking me, I literally don't care how much or little clothes someone has on. But if we are making rules I guess I would say "cover your genitals and your chest." Same code for all students. The thing is, I saw (in my highschool days) girls get in trouble for not wearing bras, but I had larger breasts than most of them (gynocamastia) and never once was I told to wear a bra.
@@jahipalmer8782 Nah, I don't anyone should get in trouble for not wearing a bra. If you have a big breath that can be extremely uncomfortable to wear all day. But I think your idea is a good one. So long as the important bits are covered there should be no issues.
*The fact that some people are actually thinking about a teenager's body like that is really disturbing. These people might actually mean it's "distracting" for them since they've got some pee...dough...file tendencies.*
I can set a steak on the floor in front of my dog, then leave my house for hours, and come back home and the steak will not have been touched. Because my dog knows it isn't supposed to eat human food. If these faithful, pious Christian men have less self-control to resist "temptation" than a literal dog, that's fucking pathetic.
@@Filthy.Potato And boys leer at girls no matter what they are wearing. Does this entertainer really think he can keep boys from looking at his daughters? Or worse, does he realize that dressing them in gunny sacks in school will ostracize them for life? He's doing a lot more harm than good by avoiding teaching his girls to look good and make the boys responsible for their own sins.
The people who say a woman's clothing plays a part in whether or not she's harassed are telling on themselves because NORMAL, emotionally stable, mature men have the ability to see an attractive woman and not harass her. Like tf???? The fact this even needs to be said is disturbing.
When I was sexually assaulted, I was wearing my scrub uniform. So by that “logic”, I wasn’t sexually assaulted, because I was wearing nurse attire. They love blaming the victim, don’t they?
@@femaleintrovert1173 I had a man leering at me and making animal noises at me while I was wearing a catholic school uniform consisting of a polo, vest, and knee-length skirt. Clothes definitely aren’t the issue
*Hell yes to all of this. The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started seeing the world through our eyes rather than through God's eyes that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence evil actions, immoral character does.*
@TheDooOver *"Sexualize" is a very tricky word because society has made sexuality seem like a taboo thing. In reality, sexuality is at the core of humanity and is every bit as natural a thing as breathing. Having sexual thoughts, urges and desires isn't evil or shameful or degrading to another person; it's literally the reason we were put on this planet. Through sexuality (attraction) comes unity (dating/marriage) comes life (pregnancy) and through all these things come love. God is life and love and this is what God meant by "Be fruitful and multiply" so damning sexuality is damning God's very purpose for creating us in the first place.*
My vice principal constantly got mad at me because I, a 41 year old male, refused to police the clothing of my freshman students. She couldn't understand how I didn't notice what they were wearing and wouldn't tell them to cover up. Ma'am I'm here to teach math, not look at 15 year olds.
I don't think your age or vocation make much difference. Admit it or not, men tend to like the same traits in women....and teenaged girls have a LOT of these characteristics. On the other hand, I don't know that it should fall on an individual teacher to handle things of this sort. The school should have a policy that applies across the board.
@@tgriffin3059 I will give you a half credit on that because if you just see a random woman out and do not know they are a child.... then yeah but if you KNOW they are children then you really shouldn't be looking at their tits and/or ass.....
@@MSBowen-pk6ww Anybody who knows anything about human beings knows that it's completely different. Women may check out handsome guys in tight clothes. But men look at girls in revealing clothes the way that a lion looks at a zebra.
@Windchanter420 I saw a situation at the local school where a grown man had to sit next to a girl who was wearing a skirt that was literally the length of a pair of underwear. I'm not even sure you can call such a thing a skirt, but I don't know a better word for it. There is no way a healthy man should have to sit next to a hot girl who is dressed that way. It is inexcusable to put that man in such an awkward situation. Let these young girls dress and comport themselves as ladies. Or let them drop the whining if they don't. Act cheap, and dress cheap....do not expect to be treated as if you are anything else BUT cheap...
The irony is that the human body isn't inherently sexual. We spend most of our time not using our bodies having sex. I grew up in a family where my body wasn't sexualized at all, neither were anyone else's. When I went through puberty and people started policing my clothes, saying I was 'flaunting' my body in short or form fitting/ figure hugging clothes, I didn't get it. Now, as an adult, sexual person, I resent it.
True. In indigenous groups where hiding your genitals is not such a big deal men don't go around with raging boners every time they see a boob or a vulva.
@@MrYondaime1995 Can you believe that just 50 years ago, nudity (for men) wasn't considered a big deal in the US either? YMCAs often allowed men to be naked when using their facilities and high schools that had swimming pools straight up didn't allow boys to wear swimsuits when using them. Of course this standard never applied to women though
@@TheSoliloquist Well that's just wrong. Saying the human body isn't inherently sexual would be akin to saying the human body isn't inherently pooping. When I poop, I use my body, yet when someone sees my body they don't equate it to pooping first. That would be a fair breakdown of op's point. We do use our bodies for sex, but they aren't inherently sexual. I can see plenty of naked people and not think of sex. In fact as someone who has taken care of the physically disabled I can tell you that it is possible to see someone naked without equating their nakedness to sexualness.
I am turned on by pretty much every part of my wife's body pretty much all the time. My wife is a sexual object to me. I also appreciate her mind, personality, and sense of humor just as much. Yes, the body is sexual because lots of people regularly find it attractive. And the point is that modesty is stupid because there's nothing wrong with that. To the point that girls should dress modestly because boys will be distracted, that's dumb because 1)that's boys f'ing problem, not the girl's, and 2)Boys are perfectly capable of avoiding distractions and controlling their minds.
Telling your daughters “what the boys really love” and what is “hottest” is really freaking creepy. Wanting your daughters to dress more modestly is an ok thing in itself, and so is finding women that dress modestly attractive, but for the love of all that is wicked and sullied, DONT PROJECT WHAT YOU FIND HOT ONTO YOUR DAUGHTER!
My favorite comeback from the "it causes men to stumble" is that women could be changing in the locker room, half naked, and all the lesbians, bis, pans, etc will PURPOSELY LOOK AWAY FROM EVERYONE because we know how uncomfortable and creepy it is to be looked at in that way. Yet somehow men can't do the same in a similar situation? Yeah sure that's bullshit Edit: I'm not hating on guys with this. I'm calling out the bullshit fallacy misogynistic people like to use to victim blame. Not all men do this. Call out men who do
It’s also very telling of people who say that men “can’t control themselves” because it means the person talking is the one who is a creep and thinks everyone is a creeper like they are. Which in a way is good because then you know to run far away from them lol
@dingus mcgee babe. There's a difference between noticing an attractive person or looking at someone who gave their consent to be seen and being a creep who looks at women who have little choice but to change their clothes near you. I'm a lesbian and I point out hot women. I also look at the floor in locker rooms so I don't make other's uncomfortable because creeping on them is a fucked up thing to do. Consent is the key difference here.
Ever since I was a kid, I would always wear a loose shirt and sleep shorts to bed during the summer. Most of the time my family had no issues with this. However, if any male guest stayed at our house, then suddenly my normal sleep attire became immodest and my mom would make me change into sleep pants and make me put on a jacket. I also want to point out that I live somewhere with hellish summers. I would complain to my mom that I was hot and she would tell me it was for my 'safety'. Hmmm idk. If your underage daughter can't wear something she normally wears to bed because a guest is over then maybe you shouldn't invite that guest over?? Just a thought
Dads that are extremely overprotective of their daughters creep me out. Like if I had a daughter she’s free to do and wear what she likes. Women are people, human beings with thoughts and feelings. I think a lot of evangelicals forget that and think they live in an age where women weren’t granted the same freedoms as men.
I agree, that trope is tired and worn out, and I hate seeing it everywhere so much. I do have a daughter, as well as a son, and when they're old enough to learn about sex I'm going to let them make their own choices after I instruct them how to make smart ones. My daughter is her own person, I don't own her just because I'm her father.
I also find it quite disturbing that my Dad would be thinking that much about my body. My father was not a great father, but I never felt like he was focused on my body and how sexual it looked. It'd very weird and disturbing.
No, evangs embrace the idea that we live in an age where women aren't granted the same freedom as men. I went to a spring clean up at a church once. Men working outside had their shirts off, but women were sent home for wearing shorts. Explanation: Men can't control their lust, but women aren't as sexual as men.
I remember two ladies at my church telling me "it's all about what you wear" when I told them I was being flirted with by a 40 year old man. I was 14, wearing a pink hoodie and sweatpants.
I love how this always translates to us having to wear extra clothing and not THEM having to wear blindfolds all the time. Heaven forfend THEY should be inconvenienced in any way.
I read this account recently of a young woman who was violently raped by her boyfriend 's brother in a well to do neighborhood. She had a broken cheek bone and ribs after the assault and called 911. The cops came and arrested him in the middle of the party. His mother admonished her for calling the police saying she resented the girlfriend for not handling it more quietly because she (the mom) was embarrassed. She said she knew people at the police station and they could've come lights off without cuffing him. One of the comments on that story was how much society puts on women to handle the feelings of others, even when their bodies are broken and violated. What about the RAPISTS MOM'S feelings.
As a female, thank you for this. Even as an adult this still affects me today. Even this summer, I'll be driving around in a tank top and decide to stop at a store or gas station. Often I'll catch myself reaching for a hoodie or a flannel. IT'S F^CKING HOT!! But I still feel the need to cover up. I hate this. I left my religion when I was still in high school but the message still sticks. I hate that straight (especially christain) men use their lust against me. If your staring at someones body, that's on YOU. If you can't look at a girl or woman in shorts without immediately thinking about having sex with her, that's on YOU. It prepetuates the idea that women are somehow responsible for the bad behavior of men. We just aren't.
I mean I think it's also worth noting that having it occur to you that a girl is attractive is natural! And if you've been taught basic impulse control rather than thought policing and aren't horribly, absurdly repressed, that occurrence will be all that happens. People can't control the thoughts that appear in their brains - but they can control their responses to those thoughts.
how is it bad behavior for a person to be sexually attracted to another? i agree people should have self control, but there is nothing wrong with sexual arousal.
Men are absolutely at fault for their own bad behaviours towards others, but I think it's equally important to point out that we shouldn't shame men for having sexual thoughts about women. When a woman wears revealing clothes, tight clothes, a man CANNOT stop his thoughts from going to a sexual place. That's just basic biology. We should also not shame women for wearing whatever they want to wear, but sometimes I get a feeling that some women pretend like they are oblivious to the fact that men get easily turned on, like they aren't aware of the fact that they can basically control a man's thoughts with how much or little of their bodies they show. Even writing this comment I am deathly afraid of getting backlash from women and be called a pervert and whatnot. I am ashamed of having a sexual desire for women, especially if they wear clothes that reveal what their bodies look like. It's not like I blame women for my desires, because I like that women are becoming more and more free and stand up for their rights. I want women to feel comfortable wearing anything from a boiler suit to a bikini. There will come a time when women wearing bikinis is no different than a man wearing swimming shorts, and perhaps even a time when women don't have to cover their breasts. I dunno, maybe. Hopefully. Let me just point out that I don't blame women for asking for trouble if they wear revealing clothes.
@@HeriEystberg i feel very uncomfortable being around women in revealing clothing. i very purposely avoid looking at them. it's like walking through a mine field. and i agree, they act like they're oblivious to the sexuality of their own bodies. i emphasize "act", because i believe they are well aware in most cases. having said that, it definitely isn't their fault what people do with their own arousal. they definitely send mixed signals. i was all in with the "no means no" of the 90s (when i was young and dating) i was shocked when i had a girlfriend actually tell me, "if you want it, you should go ahead and take it". blew me away to hear that in the context of constantly being bombarded with, "no means no". men are not the only ones that didn't get that message. that experience (and others) prompted me to add "maybe" to the list of "no". not playing that guessing game. in that time, i was amazed at how easily women would come to my apartment after barely knowing me. as a father of 3 daughters, i advise against everything i enjoyed while dating. 😆
The amount of r*pe cases that were dismissed because "she was wearing red underwear" and "red underwear means she is looking for sex are pretty sickening... modesty culture is messed up and we should never blame women's clothes
I was groomed when I was a child, and you hit the nail right on the head. A culture that preaches purity above all else hurts far more girls than it helps. I was told that my body wasn't my own, and that it was my fault if I caused men to sin, so naturally I believed that it was my fault that someone decided to take advantage of me. Over the course of several years, I have had to unlearn those lessons that were taught to me, and accept that what happened was never my fault. It genuinely makes me sick to my stomach when I hear people preaching these ideas of modesty, especially to young girls. Modesty did not protect me from being abused, because it's not about what you wear. It's not even really about what you do. It's about someone deciding that they have a right to you and your body, because they live in a society that tells them that they do.
@@iaminevitable_ my fault at 8 and 9. They weren't arrested because I wouldn't talk to the police directly. pardon my french but W.T.F.!!!!! i hope you are better now, not that we ever get over it.
As an AFAB transmasc person, this is so goddamn triggering. I didn't realize until halfway through this video, when I had to stop and take a break, how much the cult I grew up in really damaged me.
I didn't grow up in a cult personally, but as a fellow transmasc person I had to take frequent breaks throughout this video as well. I hope that you find a way to heal from the damage done to you by the awful environment you grew up in.
I once participated in a program where they were talking about victims of r*pe. In fact, you can still go to the museum that displays the clothing of victims. Most of the clothing were long sleeves, pants, DIAPERS. It doesn’t matter what anyone wears… some people are just evil. On a similar note about wearing turtle necks and pants, I once was propositioned by a man in a car while walking to college. My attire? A long sleeved formless sweater and jeans. I get propositioned wearing turtlenecks and baggy pants. There was nothing about my clothes that said I wanted to be hit on and anyone who continues to think that way need to sit down with a therapist.
Man this rhetoric really messed me up as a kid and younger woman. I played violin in high-school and right before a performance the wife of my pastor pulled me aside and said something to the effect of "I know your mother doesn't care very much how you dress but what you're wearing is making men sin. I've taught my sons to look away from women who dress like that." I was wearing a floor length dress. She was upset that it had a sort of bikini top, even though there was no cleavage visible. I cried. I was confused. I had felt good about the dress beforehand, I felt beautiful and strong and excited to perform my role in the orchestra. After she talked to me I felt like trash. I started to feel eyes on me, her (well trained) sons stared at me. My performance suffered and I didn't wear the dress again. As a 19yo adult working in a call center I was pulled aside by management and told that I should wear a bra to work because I was distracting others. In my cubical. Where no one could see me. I was embarrassed partially because I was wearing two sports bras to try and minimize my breasts, and partially because she did this in front of my coworkers. So I pulled the top of my collar over to reveal the bra straps and asked her how many I was expected to wear. She left me alone after that but the interaction removed a large part of my sense of safety at work. Just uggh. I really thought this mess would be settled by 2020, but I guess we've still got a long way to go.
It’s amazing to me how so many women are complicit in the shaming of other women. I’m sorry that happened to you. Honestly they were probably just jealous that you weren’t as ashamed of your body as they were.
*Now the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame. Genesis 2:25* *The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started seeing the world through our eyes rather than through God's eyes that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence evil actions, immoral character does.*
I am a high school teacher and flat out refuse to write students up for dress code issues. Unless it’s something obvious like a kid wearing a swastika or something, my students are always free to wear what makes them comfortable.
What is inherently wrong with a “swastika or whatever”? It was not invented by the Nazi party and has many different meanings to different cultures. Symbols are not good or evil. Your statement reveals you still have the right to subjectively deem someone’s clothing acceptable or not. It’s still wrong.
@@SeekerGoOn2013 You are correct that the swastika is actually rooted in many eastern religions as a symbol of divinity and spirituality. However, given the connections to Nazis and fascism, swastikas aren’t generally used as a spiritual symbol where I live. I live in Alabama, USA. Local synagogues where I live have been defaced with slurs and swastikas in the past, as was the university I attended and graduated from. If I have a student who wishes to wear the symbol in connection with their faith, like Hinduism or Jainism, then I would obviously make an exception for that student. However, where I live, that symbol is used as hate speech far more often than not.
@@SeekerGoOn2013 I think I can tell when someone is genuinely trying to wear a symbol that they feel is connected to their culture/religion and when someone intends to use that symbol as hate speech and intimidation. I don’t reserve the right to police my students’ clothing choices, but I DO reserve the right to ensure a welcoming, comfortable, and respectful classroom for all of my students. Hate speech isn’t protected as free speech.
I cannot stress enough how deeply psychologically disturbing it is to have your own father obsess about how sexual your body looks. I feel like that’s not talked about enough.
@@jackhammer4189 Fathers are the evil males in this scenario. As well as outside males. Jealous fathers are absolutely desiring their daughters sexually. Pot calling the kettle black. Fathers are not safe.
@@jackhammer4189 If that were the case, then you'd be right. Believe or not, there are some males in the world that are humble enough to admit that the job of a father can be done by anyone.
I’m so glad Girl Defined (?) wasn’t a thing when I was in high school. I’d have been right into it. As someone who now hates the purity culture I bought into back then, thank you for this.
I can’t believe that I used to read them unironically. Shows how brainwashed I was. Brainwashed to feel superior for my “purity” when really I intentionally broke every modesty rule because I wanted to look cute and I hate following rules. That dual-mind-high-demand-religion lyfe.
When I was in high school, the girls were not allowed to wear tank tops. It was because of the teachers. I know what you're thinking right now, and you're correct.
I noticed in high school that dress codes were more heavily enforced when it came to girls. The most egregious example of which happened in my P.E. class. Boys were required to wear shirts for gym, but would take them off when playing ball. Nothing was said to them by the male teachers. As soon as a girl's gym shorts got a little on the short side, they were made to change. My school's dress code required that we wear shorts with a 3-inch inseam. Most of us girls wore jeans year round just to avoid being dress coded.
@@happyascheese My school also has phases of measuring skirts, but I recall when girls' tank tops were banned because the teachers kept looking down their shirts.
The idea that parents have any control over what their kids wear beyond ensuring they’re not naked, and instilling the idea that you have to dress to appease others? Foul. Also, if no one can tell your work is satire, it’s not satire
@@suezuccati304 Agreed. The best way to get somebody to do something is to explain to them your reasoning for WHY it should be done. If they judge your reasoning to be sound, they will do it _willingly._ 🥰
@@leyrua no, i'm not saying that your children will do everything you want. Part of having children is knowing that they are human beings with complete separate personalities from you. It doesn't matters how much you love them, you need to accept that your children will opt to do things in unpredictable and uncontrollable ways, and there's nothing you can do to prevent that.
Personally, I kinda get the idea behind deciding what is appropriate for your kids to wear, but, like, I don't want to just say "No, my spawn, you will wear the leather jacket and ripped jeans", because people should wear what they wanna wear. Does that make sense?
My Dad was Southern Baptist and when I reached high school it was just insane. In the early 1960’s girls had to be very modest at school. I would do something my Dad didn’t like and later would hear him yelling at my Mom “If this keeps up she’ll be pregnant and bring a baby home.” My sin was going into the town and buying a pair of socks.
I knew some Baptist kids growing up. I remember the daughter wasn't allowed to wear pants yet she had to be modest. But her skirts showed more leg than pants did... and that's supposed to make sense??
@@slevinchannel7589 Are you giving the investment firms that market provocative clothing a free pass? If a capital investment firm decides they want it to be a fad, the girls they're marketing to barely have any say in the matter. These marketing firms know what they're doing, and their campaigns are exactly why girls keep getting convinced they want that clothing or think it's the best thing to wear.
Imagine being so insecure in your own conscience you demand everyone hold your religous standards so you don't even have to consider exercising self control.
“How much knowledge we give to strangers” oh sorry, I thought it was obvious that I have a belly, legs, and chest…my bad. Guess that was some secret information.
Well..... speaking from experience, even dressing nerdy and modestly won't "protect" women from sexual predators. I have a really disturbing story to tell about this, MY own experience. Many years ago, when I was still a musician playing out publicly and collaborating with other musicians (almost exclusively males, btw), I was probably one of the most modestly dressed females in the entire entertainment industry. It was also common to meet other musicians via Craigslist to collaborate with. One particular time, when I was planning to meet up with a musician to discuss some possible collaborations, we made arrangements to meet at his usual hangout, a bar that had karaoke. I wore very baggy clothes, no makeup, glasses, and my hair in a bun. He kept trying to buy me or give me drinks all night, but I refused many of them. He also acted very inappropriately with me from the jump, which I couldn't understand because I was literally dressed like a needy slob and told him I was a lesbian. We went back to my place to get started working on some material, but he just kept trying to force himself on me and even tried to shove me up against the wall to trap me. But I then grabbed his wretched ass and mangled him towards the door I opened and told him to get the F*** out, or I was calling the police. He pouted like an insolent child some more before I shoved his ass the rest of the way out the door. I STILL can't believe the sheer audacity, and I was NOT dressed provocatively AT ALL!!!!! Also, his name is Henry Blanchard and is based in San Antonio, TX. Complete monster and sexual predator.
Wearing skirts facilitates rape, when you come down to it. A woman might deflect assault wearing tight pants, but all a man has to do to rape a woman in a dress is pull up her skirt. No matter how long that skirt is, it can't protect her the way pants can.
Oh, so if you know that there is bad people out there, that means your one? How dare the father care about his kids! It's not the girl's faulit if boys objectify them, but if there is a way to avoid it, why wouldn't you?
I always felt when men try to make their daughters wear as much clothing as possible, it's more about their ego than it really is about their daughter's safety.
I'm horrified by how they publicly humiliated and harrassed that meteorologist on television while she was working! Potentially ruining her personal and professional life on purpose. Intentionally cruel and likely violating any even half-assed anti-harrasment policies. They surprised her in front of the whole world with gender-based harrassment, and probably racial-based, and body shaming. I think it's also likely that management expects her to dress up, but will disavow and hang her out to dry for ratings. She looks devastated. Hope she sued the pants off them and won, but whatever happened after, I'm sure it's a huge blow to her confidence and career - intentional, malicious sabotage by the viewers and staff. That clip is going to haunt me forever.
I’m a meteorologist albeit not the tv kind. There’s a couple of dresses that a lot of young female tv meteorologists wear because it reduces (but does not eliminate) the number of disgusting messages they get from viewers.
You guys can see more background on this incident in the video "KTLA Meteorologist Liberte Chan forced to cover up revealing' black dress getting a lot of emails".
When I was 15, I was wearing a full length gown when my best friends dad tried to hit me in the butt. I have always dressed in a way that society would consider modest for my own comfort. Clothes are not the problem. Sexual predators are the problem.
I got dress coded for no wearing a bra by a random teacher I didn't know. Gender unknown. When I expressed how uncomfortable I was with the idea that a teacher I didn't know, didn't have classes with, was staring at my chest long enough to know I wasn't wearing a bra they just acted like "Dose da rule!"
It would serve society well if we didn't consider any kind of nudity as sexual. I'm not living in the US and it's not as strong here but it's still noticeable.
I got in an argument with one of my uncles who has four daughters. There was a girl at a local university was raped and he posted a link to an article shaming/blaming The girl. It's been a long time and I don't remember the specifics now but I asked him if this was one of his daughters would he be concerned about what she was wearing or about what happened to her. It's fucking insane to me that people want to blame girls and women for something happening to them because of how they were dressed instead of teaching boys that that behavior is wrong. This was around the 2016 election. I learned a lot about a lot of my family. I don't talk to most of them very much anymore. They're surprisingly gross people for growing up in such a religious household.
No, that's exactly what I expect to come out of a religious household. I'm pleasantly surprised when someone raised like that sees through the grossness and rejects it.
Ex. My dad is homophobic but he was homophobic when he was an atheist as well. I think if you’re fine with what’s going on, you won’t go against it, but if you’re trying to find the truth about what’s moral or not, you’ll find out what’s moral eventually.
Why is that surprising? This video is literally about how religion plays into misogyny. The grossest people I have met were strongly religious, the meanest community I have ever had the misfortune to be part of was the fundamentalist church I grew up in. Religion allows you to convince yourself that you are a good person while actively harming people around you.
@@bw3839 because they were always so kind and seemed so different when I was growing up. As an adult and with the 2016 election it was like time for all the ugly to come out.
*It seems to me like most people are confusing sexuality for lust so let me explain it...* *Sexuality-The attraction men and women feel for each other. This consists of flirting, teasing, sexy clothes, sexy dancing, dating, urges, desires and fantasies and it all culminates with masturbation. This is the most powerful urge God implanted in us in order to push us to being sexual beings with an urge for connection to each other.* *Lust-Purr version that manipulates the concept of sexuality and uses it to harm and abuse others. This includes: Home...O...sexuality, pedophilia, rape, incest, prostitution, porn, molestation, necrophilia, zoophilia and cheating.* *These are the REAL meanings of these things but religion and human stupidity blur the lines between these things and merge them together even though that makes no sense.*
Being raised as a muslim girl feels like the exact same thing. Everything I wear, I have to consider how men might feel if they saw me in it. I'm lucky that my parents didn't force a dreaded headscarf on me, a lot of my friends didn't have that choice unfortunately.
There are a lot of ex muslims out there who could give you support. Besides, the chauvinistic behavior of muslims doesn't even stop at muslim majority countries but they go with them to western countries. Last week a woman tv anchor was defending a man who smacked his woman in public. 💀
I like how with the photo of the couple at the beach, he approached *him* instead of *her* while the woman was clearly the one wearing the clothing he was so upset about.
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical* *The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.* *Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
I'm German and grew up in a nudist family. Being naked between naked people of all ages and genders was and is absolutely normal to me. Nobody ever stared there, nobody assaulted anyone. It's a very respectful environment. Now if this is possible in Germany, I'm sure humans can control their behaviour and aren't deemed to assault a person for showing too much skin.
Yeah I think that the focus on modesty is counterproductive. If people are exposed to the idea of non sexual nudity they stop automatically thinking of sex just because there's nudity Who knows if that will reduce sexual assault but it's worth a shot I think 🤷
Oh, you live the dream! People are usually quite objectifying about the human body and being able to have lived that way sounds like such a liberating thing.
@@amazinggrapes3045 I always thought the world would be better off if sex didn’t exist. Just think, no one is sexualizing anyone’s bodies. Also, if we abandoned sex, humans would start doing a lot better than they are right now. The world would probably be a lot better place without sex. For example, sex ruins nudity since many people think that sex and nudity are always linked together. Because of sex, people always think nudity is sexual (when not all nudity is sexual). People tend to lump nudity and sex together as being inseparable. This is far from true, and one of the main reasons so many people are against nudity to begin with. The concept of nudity in itself isn't sexual. In a world without sex, people’s anxiety with being naked goes away, body image issues would go down because everyone would be so comfortable with their body. What a life that would be... Nudity is natural, while sex is not natural.
@@amazinggrapes3045 I always thought the world would be better off if sex didn’t exist. Just think, no one is sexualizing anyone’s bodies. Also, if we abandoned sex, humans would start doing a lot better than they are right now. The world would probably be a lot better place without sex.
@@amazinggrapes3045 For example, sex ruins nudity since many people think that sex and nudity are always linked together. Because of sex, people always think nudity is sexual (when not all nudity is sexual). People tend to lump nudity and sex together as being inseparable. This is far from true, and one of the main reasons so many people are against nudity to begin with.
Where I came from (Ultra Orthodox Judiasm), those outfits girl defined were wearing would be incredibly immodest; sleeves have to go past the elbow. Just goes to show, modesty is relative, it's all in the eyes of the beholder. Make of that what you will.
Traditional western clothing has long played with psychology and sexuality/modesty. Whatever is covered becomes sexualized while whatever is uncovered becomes ho-hum accepted, so fashion switches out covered/uncovered in an attempt to keep the body interesting: show this area this season, somewhere else next. As if, should most people run around naked for any length of time, there'd be no sex people would be so bored. Covering everything hardly makes anyone safer.
Even Abby Shapiro who's supposed to be talking about modesty as a Jewish woman still completely ignores the standards she must have grown up with! Modest influencers are so selective! Just goes to show that its nothing but propaganda.
They should have quoted the sermon on the mount where Jesus point blank told the men if they looked at a woman with Lust that they commited adultery with her in their heart. He did nto shame women! Also men cause women to stumble too when they are half naked! How is it ok with tanks and shorts for men but not women? Grow up folks. Men stop looking at me.
Yup. So, I was sort of a "scene kid" in high school... one of my best friends was wearing ripped up skinny jeans. Holes all up and down them. So, to try to make sure she wasn't breaking dress code and because it's fun and cute, she wore some leggings (not see through in the least even without pants over them) with a bright, crazy pattern on them under those jeans. My girl was wearing two layers of pants. Got sent home from school by 3rd period because some of the holes were too high up on the pants (aka, above finger tip length which is what they went by for shorts and skirts I guess). Meanwhile... it was a game day for the football team which meant the cheer leaders all wore their cheer leading outfits to school all day. Showing FAR more skin than she was with her leggings, jeans, and concert t-shirt. The cheerleading outfits were fitted, sleeveless tops and the fitted skirts weren't finger tip length on most of the girls. Apparently that was ok because they're cheerleaders? But anyone else... especially if you weren't a preppy/popular/wealthy girl... completely unacceptable, you're going home. Hope you don't miss an important test or notes or anything. Idk if this double standard along side the weird obsession with high school girls' bodies is as common elsewhere as it is in the southern US... but yea...
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical* *The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.* *Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
I graduated from high school 17 years ago but even back then, the discrepancy in dress code from regular students to cheerleaders was flabbergasting. Their skirts sometimes didn’t cover their entire butts. The same code was not extended to any other students. At least now there’s some advantages to social media being able to call this out.
What? The Christian school I went to was fine with shorter stuff or rips like that if you had leggings under it. I wore shorter shorts and leggings for gym quite a lot since it was easier to move in the short ones. Then again, that same school is saying they can't get acrobatics uniforms because they're too revealing... So me being me, I offered to sew them if they couldn't find anything already made. I made myself a bathing suit with long legs, but that's due to a disability where I need leg compression, and I also had to stop shaving my legs, so it was easier to sew a pair of swim leggings with a top attached, than buy something that fit.
@@joylox was this school in the South? If so, it must have been in some sort of liberal bubble? Any church run school that I've ever known about around where I grew up and where I live now (different state) have all had strict uniform policies, not just dress codes. Even the all girls schools. A lot of the public schools around where I live now also have uniforms.
I had to set a colleague straight recently. He's the father of a teenage daughter, and he is that stereotypical protective dad, saying he's going to be cleaning his gun collection whenever his daughter brings a boy home, etc. He was commenting about his daughter wearing short shorts when they went out to eat and how angry he got when she was ogled by a couple of adults there. His response was to tell his daughter he wanted her to cover up and not to wear that type of clothing anymore. My response to him was that she should be able to dress however she feels comfortable. "Your beef is with those guys acting inappropriately, not with your daughter's mode of dress." I think I got through to him.
During the video I was thinking, I don't care what you wear from nothing to 73 separate hoodies. You can dress how you like, but I'm gonna wear a T-shirt and shorts.
I never understood the "point" parents make when embarrassing their kids. Pushing your kids away, justifying their embarrassment of you, showing how old and out of touch you are.... if you can't sit down with them and have a normal serious conversation and get them to respect your wishes as a parent how is the next logical step "look at me I'm wearing short shorts too!"
@@jesusistheonlygodamen3406 Very common sense, sure, they should be the only ones to judge since they are involved in a Union. But some seem to miss the huge logs in their own eyes. You'd have to look at the bodies and clothes that belong to other people in order to judge them, no? I'm telling you, you are already committing fornication with your eyes by even looking at them. Even if it is in order to "moral police judge only" how sexual the body of another is. Or did the character of Jesus in most cannons say "you are committing adultery with your clothes," then? No, it is YOUR EYES/MIND/MOUTH/HANDS that make you sin ("miss the point"), not your clothes. It is modesty of the spirit that you want, not modesty of the clothes on the body. I don't recall it being "what goes into/onto your body what defiles you" but instead more of "what comes out of your mouth defiles you... and out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks" So if you think sexually enough that would lead you to speak sex about a body or clothes, you are OVER-THINKING sex about a body or clothes. As such, a "modesty Christian" and a "modesty Muslim" are already committing fornication in their mind by even judging the clothes on another person's body, spiritual RAPE as a matter of fact, when you look at it from a Humble Purity point of view actually. The judgement of the specks-in-their-eyes (clothes) on another is similar to how the Roman pagans did by calling pants on males "immodest" clothes that only immoral barbarians in the sticks would wear... immoral because they do not want to be part of the Roman Empire to be forced to do as Romans meaninglessly do in their own cultural supremacy/freedom judgment. Even Paul (the money-collector) and the (spreader of Abrahamic Unjewishness, Mercy-to-Gentiles, Trick Cup-of-Wrath on Rome, Gentile-Subservience-to-Abraham against James the Just' wishes for full-law-abiding Abrahamism) is written to say in Galatians 5:2-3 (if you cannot dare yourself to read more than 2 verses from a false religion that you may not like the full details of) that if you want to follow the bodily circumcision, or even ANY extra-Noahide law, then you should follow all the laws instead of being a hypocrite to your own convenience instead of the glory of Jesus of the flaming eyes and double-edged tongue and Yahweh of the face hidden in dark clouds and feet that turn the ground into meaningless (yet precious to fallible people) dark-blue stone. At least to yourselves be true, if you are truly as Bibliolatrous as a Muslim is Quranolatrous (or further even Hadithlatrous). You will find that contradictory to what Christian tricksters-even-onto-themselves-and-onto-ignorance-of-their-many-denominations say about Islam being hard and Hinduism being confusing... it's just the psychological defense mechanism of projection from Christianity (as an in-group of people) since it outpaces them both in those regards on many instances.
@@jesusistheonlygodamen3406 ahem. Doctors seeing patients bodies. Bra sales assistants seeing the women's bodies that they serve. I can give more examples if you need me to.
As someone who was raised in the “modest is hottest” culture from a very young age, I cannot begin to explain how damaging it is to young girls. I distinctly remember being in a youth group where they had fashion shows of “acceptable” clothing or referenced someone who had sex outside of marriage as a chewed up piece of gum. Even today as I’m still deconstructing I find these teachings the hardest to break away from. Thank you for making this video it’s truly helped me
When I was about 7 my catholic school had a running fundraiser. I remember being so excited to go , I bought these bright pink zebra shorts with my mom. When I arrived, a male staff member told me that my shorts were too short and they called my mother. Naturally I was a tall kid and all shorts were short on me. When my mother asked why I had to change they said I would “ arouse the boys “, and that it is against Jesus’ wishes to show off your body in a way like that. Imagine telling that to a SEVEN year old. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS
It sounds as if they're talking about themselves to you. Saying that to a literal child is just disgusting as hell. If I had a younger sister and someone said that to her, I'd be furious as hell
@@AlphabetCookie Not true! In Genesis 3:7 "At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves." NLT Later, Adam explains to God that he was naked, so he hid from him. Like literally directly after: "And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool[c] of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?”[d] 10 And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” " I'm not like... one of those crazy religious haters or anything, but that was a pretty crucial part of Genesis lol.
@@stinkyjoe4720 Adam being ashamed of his nakedness was WRONG. He should wear clothes so he's not ashamed. And he wasn't ashamed of his body, he was ashamed that he was naked in public. Being "ashamed" (that's not even how it feels but whatever) of being naked has nothing to do with being ashamed of your body.
@@michac.8283 "Angel" in the bible were either described to look like men that did not look any other than what you see on Earth OR wildly crazy many eyed somethings. The only place where a form of angel like we see in Christian art EVERYWHERE is even described (guy with wing) is when god dictated Moses like 50 pages of regulations how to make the Ark of the Covenant and the Temple/Tabernacel to hide it in... And then Christian overactive imagination even went further and made up "ranks" of angels the bible doesn't even mean to be angels, like Dominions and Thrones and what else ridiculous nonsense they took out of context... Seems Aquinas had a central role in claiming that had to be special names for types of angels... "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". Col 1:16
@@Ugly_German_Truths I believe the Bible says that angels in their true from take up the numerous Eldritch forms we now understand, however they can change their appearance to be as human
I'm happy to see that progressive atheism is blowing up. I remember back in 2015-2016 when of of the major atheist youtubers hopped on the Anti-SJW train and started promoting another set of lies much like the religious people they used to criticize.
Modesty is a strange thing. We, in the West, can recognize how forcing (not letting them express their religion, there's a subtle difference) women in Islamic countries to wear burkhas has negative impact on their well-being. Because it doesn't matter how much those women are covered. When it's their "responsibility" to not arouse men anything, even looking into a man's eyes for a second, becomes a valid excuse for violence And yet we follow exactly the same logic. We still believe that wearing enough of flimsy fabric will protect us from assault. Or worse - we blame victims for their "provocative" clothing choice. The only difference is the amount of skin we're allowed to show before it becomes dangerous. And maybe that we won't be stoned for it tho I know about couple fundies who would love to change it From my personal experience sexual predators don't care about what you wear. Thank whatever non-existent deity I've never been attacked but I was "proposed" by an adult. I was a teen when it happened. I wore plain, long jeans and T-shirt. I didn't have make up. I was as sexless as it's possible but for this guy I was "tempting" In the end the only logical piece of clothing that should be dictated is underpants for hygenic reasons. Anything other should be chosen depending on how it makes you feel. I don't want to walk around half naked bc it's just not me. Whatever other people (not just women) wear doesn't impact my life
Burkhas are really just the logical end point of "Modesty" and christain will eventally push for similar harsh clothing restrictions on women if we let them.
@@Szadek23 They can't see that they're losing the fight on this one; used to be ankles were too "provocative", then it was knees, now Western society at large has whittled this antiquated modesty logic down to largely just "cover your bits".
@@Szadek23 Yep. Instead of controlling their own impulses, they want to control everyone else. It would end up just like the Handmaids Tale. Hell these folk openly advocate for that kind of society anyway.
I also would like to add that in the Bible, god created us to roam naked. “WE” chose modesty because of shame. I firmly believe god doesn’t give a shit how much/little clothing we wear as it was our decision entirely. Only the wicked who can’t control themselves have issue with it.
I can relate to these girls who were harassed for not wearing bras. Through lots of soul searching, I felt empowered to wear what was comfortable for me (most people who wear brass who agree that they're uncomfortable). One day I was harassed while walking my dog and when I tried to tell my parents, my dad said that if I get harassed it's my fault for not covering up. That was the day I realized that I will never be safe or defended when I step out my house, because even people who are covered up still get harassed and assaulted. It's not about modesty, it's about systemic controlling and conditioning according to what's inconvenient for men.
I worked at the St. Louis Art Museum when one of our christian art guards alerted management that there was a woman who needed to be kicked out of the museum because her dress was too short. It was a HUGE deal. I THINK they ended up leaving her alone but there were a LOT of workers who agreed that she should be kicked out of the museum. Weirdos.
went into a mental hospital, a literal childrens psychiatric ward, and had one of the mental PROFESSIONALS there ask if I was “always dressed this provocatively” i was in a crop top, a jacket and sweat pants I was 14 years old and I was in there for suicide, as if my outfit has anything to do with how my brain works . this shit effects every part of life, it effects everything and it pisses me off.
I was in a mental hospital. We were adults but it was still uncomfortable to be told constantly whenever my clothes were riding up or slipping. And yet it was my sweater-clad 18 year old roommate who was molested in a room full of people. I completely blame the hospital and their obsession with rules and regulations over the purposes of them. Never slept a wink because they have to check on us every 15 minutes... and they were so focused on the numbers they barely looked at the people right in front of them. Cramming far too many beds into a unit whose day rooms could barely hold half of them at once. It was criminal to call it a hospital.
19:37 The real irony Is that the Christian populace, who believe that to lust for someone in your heart is to lust for them in the flesh, seem ridiculously preoccupied with censoring the bodies of other people...even when not dressed "inappropriately". This is like a weird mix of religiously based oppression meets a lack of personal accountability. Why not just...not objectify women?🤔
@@Nopeasaurus Uh... The passages that say a man must provide a dowry to a girl's father if she's to be married, the one that says r*pists can pay for their crimes by literally buying their victim from her father for some silver, basically every passage Girl Defined, Transformed Wife, Paul & Morgan, and Biblical Gender Roles quote for all of their, "Women must submit to their husbands and basically be their good little slave" rules for a happy life as a happy wife...
*The problem is most people don't even know what lust is. You probably think lust and sexuality are the same thing...guess what?...THEY'RE NOT. Sexuality is completely natural, healthy and proven to lengthen a life span. Lust is a manipulation of sexuality that harms yourself and others. Having a sexual feeling for someone isn't "lusting" after them. God created us to be sexual beings, that's why He gave us genitals and sex hormones. Also it's clinically proven that we benefit from daily masturbation meaning we benefit from sexual urges further proving that we're supposed to, by God's design, embrace our sexual nature. So even if someone is dressing to be enticing and turn heads, that's completely natural.*
But according to the last guy, that's not meant to be taken literally. The only parts in the bible meant to be taken literally ae parts where women should dress modestly, and is responsible for those around her, and where she should be obedient. But When it comes to the parts about men being accountable... nope thats not meant to be taken literally!
My parents are evangelical Christians, but this is one thing they did right. They treated modesty as wearing clothes appropriate to my age mostly. Same with makeup. As long as my mother was okay with it, it was fine. And the only thing she didn’t like were miniskirts. I could live with that. I got to wear heels before any of my classmates, halter dresses, and I went to private school. I was super awkward and nerdy, so everyone was super mad that the weird kid was allowed things when the cool kids weren’t. My parents have their own issues, but I super appreciate that my mother mostly let me wear what I wanted in teenagerdom.
That sounds so incredibly rational. I don't expect parents to be perfect- not liking miniskirts isn't making you wear sweatpants and baggy shirts and it's nice you could express yourself, at least in that way!
i went to a christian highschool where we had this big retreat at the end of the year. one night i decided to open up for the first to a some girl friends about the time i was SA'ed when I was younger. And while it was at first relieving to be finally comforted and to let out my tears on a friend's shoulder, it quickly turned to shame. An older teacher overheard our group convo and said. "You must have been rather revealing for that to happen to you because you are adorable." I felt so betrayed, disturbed, and shamed. All i could respond with was "But i was 9..." I don't remember what happened afterwards because I had broke down and had a panic attack. I was wearing an elementary school uniform btw...
The Christian summer camp I went to made all girls wear one-piece swimsuits and shorts over that while the boys could just wear swim shorts and no shirt. And whenever my church went on trips, we would have a whole presentation and giant list of things girls could and couldn’t wear while with boys it was pretty much just don’t wear a Speedo or shirts with non-Christian bands. It’s like the standards aren’t the same or something.
"The Bible should not be interpreted literally; it should be interpreted correctly." Literally just an excuse to interpret the Bible however you want, taking whatever parts fit your agenda/narrative literally as literal and whatever parts fit our agenda/narrative figuratively as figurative, with the implication being that the person invoking this is always right and just because *they* are the one to interpret the Bible CorReCTly...
No it’s actually pretty sound advice, much of the Hebrew Bible is meant to be myth not history. Most of the stories are meant to be read as allegorical explanation what the law is, how the law was acquired, and the relationship between God and Israel. As the Hebrew Bible was written in an attempt to preserve the Religion and Culture of the ancient Jews while in Exile. It’s why some of the stories contradict each other. It’s not one single narrative but multiple stories by multiple authors combined together to avoid the stories being lost. If you read the Bible literally you’re going to end up misunderstanding a lot of what it has to say simply because it was written in a different time, for a different people, in a different context, in a different language With all of that said however I doubt most Christian Conservatives are actually looking into the historical context of the Bible when interpreting what it’s saying. And I doubt he was going to go onto say that the passage is an example of hyperbole meant to emphasize the point that we are responsible for our own actions not others and you cannot blame women for you lusting after them.
@@cccaaa702 That is the christian humility as we know it... only THEY do Christian in the really true way, all the others have fallen from the way, especially Catholics that did this christianing thing way longer than any of the reformed flavours...
Oh my god that guy who thinks that showing your wife on camera makes people think she's an object to be dominated. No! If someone sees her and thinks she's a sex object that's their problem, not hers, not her husband's
Society is just composed of people. When left to their own Dark Age devices/preferences, people will be hypocritically jealous, ignorantly shallow, psychologically defensive, fretfully judgmental, overly controlling, self-servingly overgeneralizing, and on and on. The people who are in the wrong need to hear more education about societal reality which public schools are barred from teaching them out of fear of "insulting religions/cultures" rather than what they should fear which is being/encouraging ignorance and empowering fear itself.
@@letsomethingshine If you allow people power over you, they will constantly try to grab more and more power. And can we ask why women are consistently oppressed in nearly every culture?
@Sean There are a few successful cultures that did treat women as equals, the vikings were notoriously vicious and women would go viking alongside their male counterparts
*Nowhere in the Bible does it say that our bodies cause others to sin, that's a misinterpretation. The Bible is clear that our bodies are made in God's image and, because of that, we're the crown jewel of His creation. That's why there was no shame in nudity but we've lost sight of that but that doesn't mean that truth changes. Hebrews 13:8 tells us that Jesus is the same yesterday and today and tomorrow so if He thought our bodies were shameless yesterday, He still believes this today. Yes we have to cover certain areas of our bodies when we're in public because we'll get arrested for indecent exposure if we don't but clothing isn't God's creation nor was it ever intended by Him so it's not a priority of His. 1 Samuel 16:7 says WE LOOK AT PHYSICAL APPEARANCE WHILE GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART ❤ and that couldn't be any more true. David, Esther, Isaiah and Adam and Eve (before the fall) were all elevated when they embraced their natural beauty (bodies) so our bodies are not shameful "stumbling blocks", they're glorious elevation tools.*
@@jackhammer4189 Then this conversation ends. I don't know for what reason you would cast fault for sexual assault on the victim, rather than wholly on the perpetrator, but I know that I have no interest in dignifying such a view with any further responses. I hope your mind changes on the matter.
I think the lyrics of Melanie Martinez's song Strawberry Shortcake sums up the hypocrisy of modesty culture pretty well. "Instead of making me feel bad for the body I've got, Just teach him to keep it in his pants and tell him to stop." Edit: The replies under this comment are a good lesson of how you can never win comments section debates. It always ends with one person saying "You're not worth my time anymore" or something and storming off to pout.
Yes, teaching self-control should absolutely be the first and main step. But willpower does get worn down (as quite a few psychological studies have shown; I'd recommend some of Steven Pinker's book on the whole topic, they're fairly "easy access"). Just imagine (or even try, if you have the opportunity) some _really_ noisy neighbor who is somewhat hard to argue with starting with some noise at a bad time. You want to remain relaxed and friendly when you ask him to stop. Will it be a good idea to wait a couple of hours of unnerving noise before you go over there, or will it be easier to remain friendly when you do so right away? Skimpy clothes that emphasise a woman's sexual attractiveness do "fatigue" that self-control in a similar way. In the vast majority of cases (i.e. in most situations as well as for most people who are attracted to her), it obviously isn't "enough" to cause any slips of that self-control, but just as obviously, it very much _is_ "enough" in some other cases. So yes, "teach him to keep it in his pants" should very much be on everyone's list. But, as pleasing as it may be at times, don't be that noisy neighbor either, show _some_ awareness of the effect you have on your environment.
@@iaminevitable_ Yeah, why would I expect any kind of nuanced view form anyone here in the YT comments... Come back when you've either understood my comment, or have some actual yinterest in learning what you didn't understand about it. And you won't do that by throwing out ignorant bullshit like this.
Christian apologist: "This is obviously a satire... but its message is also right and should be listened to a followed" you can't have it both ways, If you do its because you're too much of a coward to admit your beliefs are too abhorrent to be said explicitly.
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical* *The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.* *Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
I work as a model and this one hits a nerve. When I go to auditions and castings, my family won't bat an eye at my wearing a crop top and shorts. But if I wear them to go outside they get upset. So like, I can sell my body to a casting director but I can't wear it outside and enjoy clothes for myself. Got it 👌🙃🙃
So we’re just gonna gloss over that little tidbit about the dude “hypothetically” sexualizing female siblings? Oh wait, that’s just a drop in the ocean. My bad.
not defending it, but in envangelical christian circles they use the term "brother" and "sister" to refer to other men and women/boys and girls. All women/girls are your sisters, all men/boys are your brothers. It's a pretty cringe thing, but it's not a literal sibling thing.
@@Blissy1175 I’m a former fundamentalist and, from a spiritual standpoint, I totally get that... but even the way they approached it was pretty gross. Lol
I have such body disphoria that I've passed out from heat sickness twice now, trying to cover up as much as possible here in Florida. Over the years, I feel only comfortable enough to wear a tank top but I'll always have pants on in 97 degrees. I'm about 35lbs overweight but even when I was smaller, I still covered up. This was from years of my mother just judging me and being worried what everyone thought of me. I have so many psychological issues that revolve around that, that I've been in therapy for years and I still struggle. It's so damaging to young girls. I'm in my 30's now and I can't say enough to teach your kids- boy, girl, everyone- that your body is however you want it to be as long as you're healthy and happy. It's yours.
The catholic high school I went to said girls shouldn't wear crop tops because "that's where your womb is, and your fertility is not something to flaunt" we were 15&16 and he would often argue it would be our fault if we got assaulted because of what we were wearing
"You shouldn't dress with confidence, I don't want to be responsible for being an objectifying misogynist with no self control" - Religious fundamentalists
tbh revealing clothing isn't dressing with confidence. Dressing with confidence means not showing yourself off. Knowing you're worth more than the sex appeal of your body.
@@Otome_chan311 Revealing clothing is just as valid a way to dress with confidence as modest clothing. Just because I'm worth more than whatever sex appeal I might theoretically have (I don't) doesn't make being confident in my skin wrong. Also, people are just comfortable in different clothes??? If what's comfy is a bare midriff then that should be the problem of the weirdos with no self control, not my problem.
@@Otome_chan311 Because being cute or sexy wouldn't make me any less of a person? And because people are welcome to _express themselves_ through their choice of clothing however they like. A girl dressing "provocatively" may be doing so because it's what's comfortable, because it's what's trendy among her friend group and peer pressure sucks, because it's what she can find in the clothing stores that actually fits, because she's confident in her body, to show off for her SO (we can argue about whether that's a healthy relationship dynamic to have separately from this topic), or even because she genuinely wants people to be sexually interested in her. But in no case does that justify assault, harassment, or r*pe. Because in all of those cases, she's still a human being with human value, and also being sexy should not be treated as diminishing that in any way.
Someone explain to me why all women's clothing is tight/short/revealing, so you literally have to buy men's clothes to "cover yourself up" the way these people want, and yet we're having this conversation. As if it's the girls' fault for wearing the clothing that's available to them and that they're encouraged by society to wear to make themselves attractive. It's a double bind. Heads I win, tails you lose. Either way women suffer.
Exactly. All through high school I really loved my body so I always had to wear guy's clothes because the girl's clothes corporations sell us were too revealing. It was nothing dramatic, I'd just wear jeans and t shirts, but I barely had any girl's clothes because what they're selling us is so sexualized.
And then when you wear the men's clothes, ditch the makeup, and just focus on basic hygiene to keep yourself clean and odor free and shaving, you get accused of not being feminine. Just let me wear comfy clothes in peace dammit!
@Jack Hummell True, I don't blame Christians for this, but I also don't blame "modern" society, I blame the patriarchy. But I don't think Christians' solution of forcing women to wear dresses and other stifling clothing so they don't "tempt" men is somehow any better. In fact, I think it's a whole lot worse. Let people wear what they want to wear. Period.
Great video! I am a retired high school teacher, and I cannot tell you the number of times that students were sexualized and harassed by faculty over clothing! The Xtian faculty (most of them) talk openly about their religion and push their "modesty" nonsense onto public school students, and since the admin & Board are also Xtians, the students must simply endure OR reach out to civil rights orgs. After I retired, I was sent a photo in which 2 girls: one White, tall, and thin, and one Black/Latinx, a little shorter, and curvy. Both girls had the same outfit on with about 1 inch of midriff showing, which is against dress code. Guess who got sent out of a 12th grade, IB class for showing skin? You know it! Not only are dress codes misogynistic and used to groom, target, and blame girls and young women, they are also tools of white supremacy. The 2 girls were friends, and agreed to be in the photo to show me that their outfits revealed the exact same amount of skin. In the district where I taught, the dress code was used to harass non-White girls FAR more often than White girls, and this is true across the USA. And the double standards & mixed messages! OMFG! The dress code prohibits racer back tops, but a staff member had a tattoo she wanted to show off, so she wore racer backs to work and rubbed it in students' faces that "it's a privilege of adulthood"! Another faculty member regularly wears a shirt that covers her ass, but says "smart is sexy" across her ass. And twice a year, there's complete hypocrisy on display when the school day is interrupted for a contest in which a handful of students are given royal treatment: photo shoots, a pageant, a parade, crowning ceremony for "king and queen," and a dance--while wearing evening gowns that break the dress code in every way! And let's not forget that cheerleaders, those special young women who exist to stroke male egos, are REQUIRED to wear their uniform, which breaks dress code, every game day. Modesty is not required if one's role is to encourage male athletes. Have you considered doing an episode on the influence (poisoning) of public schools w/ Xtian "modesty" shtick? If you look at the language of public school dress codes, you will notice that most do not focus on student safety or comfort, but body shaming and slut shaming of girls and young women. Most school dress codes groom girls and young women in the same ways that the dude's shitty song did. It's really fucked up how many girls and women are targeted by public school faculty for harassment b/c of dress codes.
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical* *The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.* *Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
I definitely stuck to the modesty rule. It just made me comfortable. When I realized I was transmasculine and covering up due to body dysphoria, when I came out to my religious parents I suddenly *have* to show cleavage to be "feminine" and honoring that God made me a woman!!! You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Bro, that sucks. I'm sorry they reacted that way. I had a similar experience when I came out to my dad. All my life, I had always dressed in masculine clothing, and my religious conservative dad never said a word about it. In fact, he seemed happy to have a kid who liked doing the things he liked and didn't obsess over all the girly stuff my sisters did. Then, when he found out I was trans, suddenly he was quoting scriptures from Leviticus about how dressing as the opposite sex was an abomination to God (a verse, I was quick to point out to him, is literally right next to one about not yoking your oxen and cattle together when plowing a field. Are we supposed to follow that command too? Or only the ones that fit our narrative?). He never bothered to tell me for the first 17 years of my life that I was sinning by wearing cargo pants and t shirts. It only became a sin when my pronouns changed. Interesting, that.
I was sexually assaulted, when my grandmother was told she said I shouldn't have sat in his lap, or dressed immodest. I was only 9 years old. This is a huge problem in our society 😕
Dude it’s so gross when people blame the victims especially if their kids.
I'm having trouble understanding what happened because of your grammar. I'm sorry I brought that up but it's important to make your message clear. I'm sorry you were molested.
@@godzilla964 it's perfectly readable. Also sorry op, I hope you know it was entirely the perpetrators fault and not your own. It's difficult to live with but at least you're still here. Sorry :
My grandmother told me my mother's husband had the right to for me not being biologically his. When she learned my mother was joining in, she continued to make excuses. I was 6. I continued to live my life as if my genitals belonged to whomever demanded them. Not the way to go and it took me too many wasted years of my life to realise I owned my body.
@@kbbrown8154 What the- WHAT, WHAAAT, NOO, THE FUCK? ARE THERE PARENTS WHO ACTUALLY DO THIS SHIT? I'm sorry you went through all that, just, what kind of fucking parents are those monsters!? That is horrible, just absolutely disgusting behavior. I can't believe the absolute audacity of your grandmother to say such crap too. I seriously hope you're okay nowadays, no amount of justification could explain the horrid things your parents did to you. I am grateful that I was born in a relatively good family, life is just so unfair to some people, and I don't know how to feel about it.
I read somewhere: " if you say that to prevent assault you should dress more modest, you are really saying make sure he assaults another girl. There is always a more provocatively dressed girl, drunker and in a worse part of town than me, and I want her to be safe just as much as I am."
That's a very good point
Exactly! Christian society is basically giving men and boys a pass to behave as predators!
Exactly it’s so messed up
I had never thought of it that way, I never considered that the person committing the crime would do it regardless
*claps*
That's 100% correct.
Evangelical men: "women should look like women but should dress without pointing out that they're women but they can't not point out that they're women because then they look like men and that's trans"
Yes. Be feminine and cute, but not too much. Don't you dare neglect your femininity, Take care of your appearance, but try to look effortless while doing it, otherwise we'll shame you for being vain.
“Just....don’t.”
Yep.. it’s nauseating lol
they make the rules so arbitrary and impossible to navigate. They set girls and women up to fail so men can blame women and always avoid responsibility for their own thoughts and actions.
then they claim they arent sexist...
"Men can't control their lust." That's what is said in churches. "Men are helpless to control their thoughts when a woman is in the room, unless she makes herself undesirable." Literally what is said by ministers from the pulpit in every church in the land. I was once shamed about touching the arm of a man who wouldn't pay attention to something important he needed to know before going into an (all male) session of the elders' board. The men in the church interpreted that touch as an invitation to sin. That's how misogynist church is. "All sin came from Eve, and women have been messing men up ever since."
This sort of rhetoric literally breeds predatory behaviour... "I can't control my urges, so anything I do is your fault"
I'm a guy and I can control myself just fine. These pedos don't struggle with lust, they struggle with being decent human beings.
That sounds like a very relatable problem someone from my old country would have but I didnt imagine the same would be true of the US. The more I learn about Christian extremists, the more I think they would be far more happy living with the Taliban and if that is too extreme, they would be better suited to my old country, Pakistan and let people like me, a progressive Muslim who believes in a pluralistic multicultural society being the best way forward, live here. Pakistan even officially protects their religion because the same blasphemy law they complain about when they want to bash Muslims also protects all religions in Pakistan, including Christianity. They are free to move there, people even speak English in the 3 major cities and the largest city, Karachi, leans socially conservative in every way. I am not even exaggerating, they would honestly be happier there.
As a gay guy I find this funny af. Because I've seen shirtless men so many times and yet I don't go around touching every hot guy I see.
@@lazarus8018say it louder for the people in the back 👏
As an SA survivor I can assure you that modesty did not save me from males prying eyes. Mainly because my rapist was a conservative Christian woman who told me to remain pure for men.
My condolences. You make an excellent point here. Predators and abusers aren’t stopped by clothing
I’m so sorry.
bro what?
@jack hammer If that's the case, then why is SA so prevalent in countries where women are required by law to dress modestly?
@jack hammer SA is highest where women are forced to dress the most conservatively, so your little theory doesn't check out. Start holding men accountable for their actions instead of ousting the blame and responsibility on women all the time. Now, I know a lot of men love using women as a scapegoat to avoid accountability when it comes to their actions but it really is time for men to be held accountable.
Christian dads: "My daughters should dress more modestly."
Also Christian dads: "It's perfectly okay to refer to my daughter's fashion choices as "hot." There is nothing gross about that at all."
His logic is basically "it’s not creepy if I’m affiliated with that person in a way that prevents me from wanting to do anything intimate with them."
93% of sexual offenders declare themselves as religious! Maybe these horrible ideologies are hidden in the place that *child molestation* is incredibly prevalent, for some reason. *cough*the church*cough*
@@lyokianhitchhiker EVEN THO MOST SA HAPPENS CLOSE TO FAMILY????? LMAOOOOO
@@josephs.3372 My point is, I can see where he’s coming from, even if it comes off as creepy anyway.
@@lyokianhitchhiker dont daughters usually look like younger versions of their mothers? How did they get a daughter if they werent willing to smash their mother in the first place?
I still remember the absolute horror I felt when I accidentally went to school without a bra in sixth grade. I hid in the back of all the classes and had my arms over my chest the whole day. I called my mom crying asking to bring a hoodie but I couldn’t bring myself to say the word bra or explain the situation because I didn’t want to get in trouble for being inappropriate. An eleven year old shouldn’t have to worry about that kind of thing.
Damn over a bra-
When my wife and I were dating in bible college, she and the other women in the women's dorm had 2 hour meeting about why they couldn't wear leggings. When they were let go, she encapsulated her feelings in a beautifully frustrated and articulate quote saying, "God forbid women have a body!" Still my favorite quote of all time.
PCC?
@@darknessfall9890some of my friends went there, they told me plenty horror stories about purity culture
Woman in the whole bible is described as impure. So everything that comes out of her is impure, her children and the period. Our existing is a sin.
Facts
@@ciracarvalhal9622the Bible needs some massive citations
The “What Were You Wearing?” exhibit is actually kind of heartbreaking. One of the outfits was a very small t-shirt with a diaper.
And pyjamas…
The only acceptable context for the what are you wearing question is police trying to see if there is any evidence left on the clothes
@@oreo1749 no, but i get what you mean
#metoo, sadly 😟😟
(Two. I was. TWO!)
I took a criminal justice course, and one of the cases in our book was this I think 6-8 yo girl. The defense really did try and make the case that this child tempted her assaulter. It's heartbreaking, horrible, I felt like throwing up when I read that
Incidentally, the Duggars are a perfect example for why dressing modestly does not "prevent your brother from stumbling" considering the oldest son's crimes against his young sisters
Because the rapist will always be thinking
"She looks good in that outfit, but she would look even better without it."
@@SusRing Exactly.
And the lengths that the family went to in covering it up. Because modesty is always in the eyes of other people: It's about image and reputation.
Part of the issue with the Duggars (and other modesty obsessed fundie families) is by obsessing over what their kids wear, as well as their kids bodies and sexuality from an early age; they actually end up creating hypersexual kids with taboos and strange fetishes that don't occur with normal people. It happens because young kids don't fully grasp all this stuff anyway but naturally want to push boundaries and explore, so the kids brain developes trying to make sense of sexual stuff it shouldn't know, and once they understand it all they've already developed strange thoughts and behaviors on the matter, often related to their family. Whereas kids of liberal parents who don't care about all this modesty bs generally find out about all this stuff naturally a couple years older and by other peers so it isn't so weird. In the end all this family modesty, purity and body obsession nonsense is just begging for incest problems. It's gross 🤢
Can you link a website, or video? I want to read up on this.
Have you ever thought about how the favorite phrase of modesty is to "leave something to the imagination," meaning that modest women will have men *imagining* what their bodies look like underneath their clothing? Also fun fact, societies which have been in warmer climates have had less sexualizing and fetishizing of breasts because they were not covered up, making breasts *not* a secret thing that only men who have sex with her get to see?
Yeah, stuff like this always reminds me of stories about how men in Victorian times actually started blushing when they saw a woman's ankle (say, when they were walking up a set of stairs behind her), exactly _because_ ankles were always supposed to be covered up and effectively sexualized that way.
On the other hand, our appearance, especially our primary and secondary sexual organs, simply _do_ cause sexual arousal (depending on their "attractiveness", which basically originates from how healthy and able to bear/support children someone is, which is why in women, youthful appearance and medium-sized breasts tend to be perceived as attractive by most, while in men, it's outward shows of "successfulness" (social and economic) as well as physical prowess (ability to hunt and defend)). It's all relative of course, but denying the underlying instincts is at best just plain ignorant, at worst an attempt to deceive.
@@Wolf-ln1ml Undeniable that many body parts are naturally sexualized. But paradoxaly not all of them are hided. Example: female waist to hip ratio, considered the most sexual feminine aspect, is clearly shown or even enphasized through clothes. Also male forearms, male shoulders.
And we can't forget we show the most sexual aspect of a person: the face.
@@stefanisilva2493 "Waist to hip ratio" is not a thing everywhere. 🙄 I don't remember hearing this nonsense from Western males when skinny women were trendy. Western trends keep changing and not everyone thinks the same.
There are still cultures where skinny is more fashionable (e.g. S Korea). Have you seen Chinese clothing sizes? I would probably come under L/XL in their culture!
Breasts are seen as sexual in many cultures. For example, I've heard that in Japan if you wear shorts it's fine but if you expose cleavage, it's seen as bad.
@@dearrationals You didn't see because people take centuries to express verbally what they feel uncontiously and express through art and culture first. But artists already talked about this concept in classes and books even from 80s. Even Barbie Doll, the epitomy of skinny women had a wonderfull waist to hip ratio, and so did many sculptures, paintings etc.
And my point is that even sexualized parts are not always hidden. In India, belly and hair are sexualized and emphasized, not hidden.
@@Wolf-ln1ml There may be some, of course but your explanation is too simplistic or even outdated. Nowadays, in places where women have more choices and are not shamed for them, plenty of them go for men they find physically attractive as well. Women are also physically attracted to men. Some westerners keep making sweeping statements about humans and the planet. Across cultures, there are differences. For example, there is a tribe that has a ceremony where men are the ones who paint their faces and do certain movements/dances to attract women. Some cultures promote skinny as beautiful and some a different body type. In some cultures, men shave their pubic/armpit hair as it's seen as more hygienic. And there are also individual differences and preferences. Some women prefer men with shaved chests and others don't. Some prefer them without beards. Look at S Korea, I don't remember seeing a Kpop idol with a beard. Humans change, societies change, people and cultures vary.
I’m an SA victim myself, modesty or immodesty did absolutely NOTHING to protect me from being assaulted by a man when I was in my pajamas at 15 years old. These people are delusional
Definitely
The line about "causing your brother in Christ to stumble" reminds me a lot of a line from the song Hellfire from the Hunchback of Notre Dame: "It's not my fault! I'm not to blame! It was the gypsy girl, the witch who set this flame! It's not my fault, if in God's plan, He made the Devil so much stronger than a man!"
The last thing Frollo wanted to do was take personal responsibility for his lust, so he blamed Esmerelda, her people, the Devil, and even God, to some extent.
edit: people have pointed out that "gypsy" is considered derogatory. I apologize if I offended anyone, I wasn't aware
Good point. and God, i've forgotten how good this song is.
@Zoe Collette Less offensive back in 1996. Plus it was Frollo. He's the type of character who would not only casually throw a slur around, but feel all the more righteous for doing so.
If you have to quote the slur just write [Romani] in its place so that you're not using the slur but also indicating that the quote was changed
@Zoe Collette it’s not really seen as negative in America
Most Americans would take a few seconds to recognize what “Romani” means
@@Gloomdrake You should watch the song. It's usually on lists of best Disney villain songs as the first or second best. The performance is great, the writing is great, but above all it's the characterisation of Frollo - a man who can commit the most terrible acts because he is always able to convince himself that he is doing good. Even when struggling with self-loathing he can direct the blame for his own shortcomings upon everyone but himself, and emerge with an assurance that everything he desires is somehow justified.
I will always use the analogy of being hungry in a restaurant: you don't snatch food off passing trays, and you don't blame the person who ordered the food for your growling stomach, so why would you blame a woman for your feelings?
oh my god, that's a good one. I'll keep that in mind for discussions with people who are purity obsessed.
I like that one too.
You do if you're starving, which is what our religious patriarchs have set up for themselves. They gained political power by regulating the distribution of rice. But this doesn't stop us from drooling over the wax models in sushi restaurant windows.
The solution for this was to put all the sushi in purdah. But a better idea would be for marriage to grant a man a license to everything on the menu, not just his own entree. Honestly, if ladies would just be the slightest bit charitable to men who needed a snack (they're all pretty much the same anyway) we wouldn't be so uptight all the time.
There would be a lot less bickering about how they were dressed.
@@paulpinecone2464 you seem to be confused, friend: the woman in the analogy isn't the food, the woman is the person who *ordered* the food. Berating a woman for being dressed in a way is like yelling at someone who ordered something that made you hungrier when it passed your table.
And the actual consequences you're advocating for is forcing people to eat things, even if they're not hungry, allergic, or find it disgusting. Why would you wish that on someone?
@@paulpinecone2464 you've got some messed up values and you don't even know it
Evangelicals: "Women should be dressed appropriately and not show much skin."
Also Evangelicals: "Look at these poor women in [insert place] who have to wear Burkas, that is not what America is about."
To be fair, there's a pretty big difference between what most evangelicals would consider acceptable (think t-shirts and mid-length shorts) and not an inch of skin visible.
@@tayh.6235 I mean yeah but at the same time 60 years ago you would be called a whore if you wore jeans so it is all dumb
@@tayh.6235 the justifications are the same in both.
*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started seeing the world through our eyes rather than through God's eyes that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence evil actions, immoral character does.*
*But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7*
@@tayh.6235 is it though, if the choice was taken away from people?
My female boss once gave me a list of 3 outfits she doesn't like on me because they reveal too much cleavage. When I told her I was gonna keep wearing them, she told me "well, don't come complaining when you elicit unwanted attention from your male co-workers. Or maybe it wouldn't be unwanted?"
The funny thing is, she actually meant well. She was nice about the whole thing.
Did my outfits show some cleavage? Yes, which is why I like them. Now if a male co-worker tries to touch me or offend me, I'll feel entitled to tell him to stop.
You know what's funny though? She later told me I was dressing like a potato sack as off late, and I should find myself more fitted shirts. People, you just can't win this game hahs
I hope you told her off
We live in a society that has created a paradox about sex. It's both an obsession and dirty/shameful at the same time. But going even further, we continue to consider bodies to be inherently sexual. In many cultures, this isn't a thing.
I saw a simple point about sexuality being for men. The whole idea is that women don't get to do that stuff for themselves. Women are only supposed to be sexual for men and with intention. It's such a stupid thing that's just infected so many cultures.
It’s weird to think about the origin of modesty, did one cave man look at a naked woman and say “hey uh, I want to sleep with you now and can’t hunt so you’re gonna need to fig leaf those warlocks”
@@scotch4890 Is "warlocks" a euphemism for boobs, or what?
I'm dying here. 😂 🤣😂 🤣
A society of where pornography is defended as free speech, but you'll go straight to jail for public nudity.
I don't support either of those things, but I find the hipocrisy downright enraging.
@@SusRing The difference is primarily consent*; you are consenting to watching porn, you are not consenting to seeing some random person walking down the street with their genitals flapping about. As far as I'm concerned though, if men can walk around topless, I should be allowed to walk around with my tits out.
*The issue of consent within the p*rn industry is a whole other can of worms on its own that I'm certain we already fall on the same side of.
"Your body isn't yours. It's God's."
And people wonder why I am no longer a Christian.
It's a list full of things, and this is one of them.
Sounds like a pretty terrifying loan. There is NO WAY I could return this body in the same condition that I got it.
Holy fuck that sounds awful. Imagine saying “your body isn’t yours, it’s your husbands”
My channel from flds lifestyle talk about life also cottagecore
Reason number 1,843. No wait, that’s Original Sin. 1,438. Sorry, I get confused trying to keep them all straight…
@@hihowareyatoday573 They do. The Bible also implies that our bodies belong to our fathers. So our bodies belong to God, our fathers, our husbands, and we have to dress for every man that sees us, so our bodies kina belong to them too. So it seems like every man owns our bodies, but we don't... 😬
It's also insulting to insinuate that dressing "provocatively" tempts men like me to commit atrocities. It might tempt some fucked up dudes, but like it was pointed out, it's not about the clothing. I can control myself very fucking well thank you very much, and I'd like to say that on behalf of all my male friends too. "Modesty" is insulting to everyone and incorrectly frames the issue
Dude, seriously. Am I an animal or a human being? I can look at cupcakes without eating all of them too. It’s called restraint!
Predators look for easy targets and circumstances where they won’t get caught and can easily overpower their target. It’s not really about how “tempted” they are by you. If they want to assault or rape a woman, they have most likely already planned to.
Thank you!
But it does tempt men to look with lust.
@@lincolndunford6693
Look and feel lust, yes. How one acts upon those feelings is totally different.
I was touched by my stepfather when I was 15 and I was a victim of sexual assault at 21. I called the police and they told me boys will be boys and asked if it wasn’t just a “ sex thing we did “. The police told me my case won’t go anywhere because they didn’t have enough evidence. When I opened up to my family, they told me I shouldn’t have invited him over and asked what I was wearing. My cousin even called me “ damaged goods”. My family is very religious and they subscribe to purity culture. Purity culture often blames young girls and doesn’t hold men accountable.
thats fucking disgusting and horrible
i hope youre out of there or in a better environment
I'm sorry for what you went through and I wish you well.
Gtfo of that life, at ANY costs.
Please get away, from them first chance you get❤
That Purity, your sexuality is your Dads until your wedding seems so incest something….it’s disgusting.
That makes me so mad. We had an Evangelical church hiding under a different name in my community so they didn't have as strong of a hold where I'm from. I think it made a difference because our school had police officers come to talk to us about sexual assault. They were adamant that sex offenders NEVER remember what the girl was wearing, despite how prevalent it is in society to always blame it on what the girl was wearing. We were a town of about 800 people. Why isn't this more widespread!?!
This makes me so sad. Like, the idea of girls being sent home from school and losing out on education opportunities because their bodies are "distracting" or "inappropriate." That's so ridiculous.
Also, did that one lady say that your "sins" require a blood sacrifice?! WTF
At what point is the dress attire unacceptable? Or is everything permissible and how do you decide? Can you show up in a low cut top or topless?
@@jonathanxavier2026 If you are asking me, I literally don't care how much or little clothes someone has on. But if we are making rules I guess I would say "cover your genitals and your chest." Same code for all students. The thing is, I saw (in my highschool days) girls get in trouble for not wearing bras, but I had larger breasts than most of them (gynocamastia) and never once was I told to wear a bra.
@@jahipalmer8782 Nah, I don't anyone should get in trouble for not wearing a bra. If you have a big breath that can be extremely uncomfortable to wear all day. But I think your idea is a good one. So long as the important bits are covered there should be no issues.
*The fact that some people are actually thinking about a teenager's body like that is really disturbing. These people might actually mean it's "distracting" for them since they've got some pee...dough...file tendencies.*
I can set a steak on the floor in front of my dog, then leave my house for hours, and come back home and the steak will not have been touched. Because my dog knows it isn't supposed to eat human food. If these faithful, pious Christian men have less self-control to resist "temptation" than a literal dog, that's fucking pathetic.
Too bad I can't thumbs up your comment a hundred times!
Nailed it.
Dogs eat steak
@@Filthy.Potato And boys leer at girls no matter what they are wearing. Does this entertainer really think he can keep boys from looking at his daughters? Or worse, does he realize that dressing them in gunny sacks in school will ostracize them for life? He's doing a lot more harm than good by avoiding teaching his girls to look good and make the boys responsible for their own sins.
My dog would eat the steak if I set it on the floor lol.
The people who say a woman's clothing plays a part in whether or not she's harassed are telling on themselves because NORMAL, emotionally stable, mature men have the ability to see an attractive woman and not harass her. Like tf???? The fact this even needs to be said is disturbing.
When I was sexually assaulted, I was wearing my scrub uniform. So by that “logic”, I wasn’t sexually assaulted, because I was wearing nurse attire. They love blaming the victim, don’t they?
@@femaleintrovert1173 I had a man leering at me and making animal noises at me while I was wearing a catholic school uniform consisting of a polo, vest, and knee-length skirt. Clothes definitely aren’t the issue
@TheDooOver Sexualizing someone doesn't mean you have to voice it out loud anyway, or other creepy behaviors.
*Hell yes to all of this. The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started seeing the world through our eyes rather than through God's eyes that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence evil actions, immoral character does.*
@TheDooOver *"Sexualize" is a very tricky word because society has made sexuality seem like a taboo thing. In reality, sexuality is at the core of humanity and is every bit as natural a thing as breathing. Having sexual thoughts, urges and desires isn't evil or shameful or degrading to another person; it's literally the reason we were put on this planet. Through sexuality (attraction) comes unity (dating/marriage) comes life (pregnancy) and through all these things come love. God is life and love and this is what God meant by "Be fruitful and multiply" so damning sexuality is damning God's very purpose for creating us in the first place.*
My vice principal constantly got mad at me because I, a 41 year old male, refused to police the clothing of my freshman students. She couldn't understand how I didn't notice what they were wearing and wouldn't tell them to cover up. Ma'am I'm here to teach math, not look at 15 year olds.
I don't think your age or vocation make much difference. Admit it or not, men tend to like the same traits in women....and teenaged girls have a LOT of these characteristics. On the other hand, I don't know that it should fall on an individual teacher to handle things of this sort. The school should have a policy that applies across the board.
@@tgriffin3059 I will give you a half credit on that because if you just see a random woman out and do not know they are a child.... then yeah but if you KNOW they are children then you really shouldn't be looking at their tits and/or ass.....
why is it only girls right? I mean boys are ok to wear a tank top but not girls? Boys are ok to wear shorts but not girls?
@@MSBowen-pk6ww Anybody who knows anything about human beings knows that it's completely different. Women may check out handsome guys in tight clothes. But men look at girls in revealing clothes the way that a lion looks at a zebra.
@Windchanter420 I saw a situation at the local school where a grown man had to sit next to a girl who was wearing a skirt that was literally the length of a pair of underwear. I'm not even sure you can call such a thing a skirt, but I don't know a better word for it. There is no way a healthy man should have to sit next to a hot girl who is dressed that way. It is inexcusable to put that man in such an awkward situation. Let these young girls dress and comport themselves as ladies. Or let them drop the whining if they don't. Act cheap, and dress cheap....do not expect to be treated as if you are anything else BUT cheap...
The irony is that the human body isn't inherently sexual. We spend most of our time not using our bodies having sex. I grew up in a family where my body wasn't sexualized at all, neither were anyone else's. When I went through puberty and people started policing my clothes, saying I was 'flaunting' my body in short or form fitting/ figure hugging clothes, I didn't get it. Now, as an adult, sexual person, I resent it.
True. In indigenous groups where hiding your genitals is not such a big deal men don't go around with raging boners every time they see a boob or a vulva.
Saying the human body isn’t inherently sexual it’s like saying the human body doesn’t inherently poop.
@@MrYondaime1995 Can you believe that just 50 years ago, nudity (for men) wasn't considered a big deal in the US either? YMCAs often allowed men to be naked when using their facilities and high schools that had swimming pools straight up didn't allow boys to wear swimsuits when using them. Of course this standard never applied to women though
@@TheSoliloquist Well that's just wrong. Saying the human body isn't inherently sexual would be akin to saying the human body isn't inherently pooping. When I poop, I use my body, yet when someone sees my body they don't equate it to pooping first. That would be a fair breakdown of op's point.
We do use our bodies for sex, but they aren't inherently sexual. I can see plenty of naked people and not think of sex. In fact as someone who has taken care of the physically disabled I can tell you that it is possible to see someone naked without equating their nakedness to sexualness.
I am turned on by pretty much every part of my wife's body pretty much all the time. My wife is a sexual object to me. I also appreciate her mind, personality, and sense of humor just as much.
Yes, the body is sexual because lots of people regularly find it attractive. And the point is that modesty is stupid because there's nothing wrong with that.
To the point that girls should dress modestly because boys will be distracted, that's dumb because 1)that's boys f'ing problem, not the girl's, and 2)Boys are perfectly capable of avoiding distractions and controlling their minds.
He wrote a song called “Modest is hottest” for his DAUGHTERS?!? Can we stop pretending Evangelicals are normal? Please?
Telling your daughters “what the boys really love” and what is “hottest” is really freaking creepy. Wanting your daughters to dress more modestly is an ok thing in itself, and so is finding women that dress modestly attractive, but for the love of all that is wicked and sullied, DONT PROJECT WHAT YOU FIND HOT ONTO YOUR DAUGHTER!
They're crazy in every imaginable way
Yeah... I wouldn't want to see what's on his computer's hard drive. 😬
Yeah, evangelicals are psychos.
Purity culture is all about incest.
My favorite comeback from the "it causes men to stumble" is that women could be changing in the locker room, half naked, and all the lesbians, bis, pans, etc will PURPOSELY LOOK AWAY FROM EVERYONE because we know how uncomfortable and creepy it is to be looked at in that way. Yet somehow men can't do the same in a similar situation? Yeah sure that's bullshit
Edit: I'm not hating on guys with this. I'm calling out the bullshit fallacy misogynistic people like to use to victim blame. Not all men do this. Call out men who do
It’s also very telling of people who say that men “can’t control themselves” because it means the person talking is the one who is a creep and thinks everyone is a creeper like they are. Which in a way is good because then you know to run far away from them lol
@@ComfyCatNya absolutely. It's creeps projecting their sick ideas onto others.
@dingus mcgee and ur sister and sister in law have told u this? cause im bi and i look away so as to not make ppl uncomfortable
@dingus mcgee babe. There's a difference between noticing an attractive person or looking at someone who gave their consent to be seen and being a creep who looks at women who have little choice but to change their clothes near you. I'm a lesbian and I point out hot women. I also look at the floor in locker rooms so I don't make other's uncomfortable because creeping on them is a fucked up thing to do. Consent is the key difference here.
@@graeycooper5084 AMEN
Ever since I was a kid, I would always wear a loose shirt and sleep shorts to bed during the summer. Most of the time my family had no issues with this. However, if any male guest stayed at our house, then suddenly my normal sleep attire became immodest and my mom would make me change into sleep pants and make me put on a jacket. I also want to point out that I live somewhere with hellish summers. I would complain to my mom that I was hot and she would tell me it was for my 'safety'.
Hmmm idk. If your underage daughter can't wear something she normally wears to bed because a guest is over then maybe you shouldn't invite that guest over?? Just a thought
Dads that are extremely overprotective of their daughters creep me out. Like if I had a daughter she’s free to do and wear what she likes. Women are people, human beings with thoughts and feelings. I think a lot of evangelicals forget that and think they live in an age where women weren’t granted the same freedoms as men.
I agree, that trope is tired and worn out, and I hate seeing it everywhere so much. I do have a daughter, as well as a son, and when they're old enough to learn about sex I'm going to let them make their own choices after I instruct them how to make smart ones. My daughter is her own person, I don't own her just because I'm her father.
I don't think evangelicals care at all about what age they live in. They care that they are in control.
I also find it quite disturbing that my Dad would be thinking that much about my body. My father was not a great father, but I never felt like he was focused on my body and how sexual it looked. It'd very weird and disturbing.
I have a father like this and his low opinion of men is disgusting. It’s horrible how low the standards are for them coming from a religious family
No, evangs embrace the idea that we live in an age where women aren't granted the same freedom as men. I went to a spring clean up at a church once. Men working outside had their shirts off, but women were sent home for wearing shorts. Explanation: Men can't control their lust, but women aren't as sexual as men.
I remember two ladies at my church telling me "it's all about what you wear" when I told them I was being flirted with by a 40 year old man. I was 14, wearing a pink hoodie and sweatpants.
🤢🤮
@@slevinchannel7589 uh ok.
@@slevinchannel7589 why are you responding to her?
@@slevinchannel7589 bestie you didnt have to invalidate my expierence my that 🙁🙏
@@slevinchannel7589 hes talking about purity culture tho not wearing inappropriate clothing. Learn how to listen broski
I love how this always translates to us having to wear extra clothing and not THEM having to wear blindfolds all the time. Heaven forfend THEY should be inconvenienced in any way.
Males are so despicable and entitled. We should be able to walk around naked, and they should be required to control themselves.
Perfect! If they can't control their lust, make them wear blinders!
@@stregalilith I would love to see males being made to wear blindfolds.
The bible states that if your eyes cause you to sin, gouge them out. I think Christian men should listen to that part of their scripture more lmao.
"If your right eye causes you to sin, GOUGE IT OUT". We don't see men doing that now, do we?????
I read this account recently of a young woman who was violently raped by her boyfriend 's brother in a well to do neighborhood. She had a broken cheek bone and ribs after the assault and called 911. The cops came and arrested him in the middle of the party. His mother admonished her for calling the police saying she resented the girlfriend for not handling it more quietly because she (the mom) was embarrassed. She said she knew people at the police station and they could've come lights off without cuffing him. One of the comments on that story was how much society puts on women to handle the feelings of others, even when their bodies are broken and violated. What about the RAPISTS MOM'S feelings.
That's the most messed up thing I've ever heard.
As a female, thank you for this. Even as an adult this still affects me today. Even this summer, I'll be driving around in a tank top and decide to stop at a store or gas station. Often I'll catch myself reaching for a hoodie or a flannel. IT'S F^CKING HOT!! But I still feel the need to cover up. I hate this. I left my religion when I was still in high school but the message still sticks. I hate that straight (especially christain) men use their lust against me. If your staring at someones body, that's on YOU. If you can't look at a girl or woman in shorts without immediately thinking about having sex with her, that's on YOU. It prepetuates the idea that women are somehow responsible for the bad behavior of men. We just aren't.
I mean I think it's also worth noting that having it occur to you that a girl is attractive is natural! And if you've been taught basic impulse control rather than thought policing and aren't horribly, absurdly repressed, that occurrence will be all that happens. People can't control the thoughts that appear in their brains - but they can control their responses to those thoughts.
Yeah! And it also suggests we males can't, you know, show restraint. We're taught that we aren't expected to have self control.
how is it bad behavior for a person to be sexually attracted to another? i agree people should have self control, but there is nothing wrong with sexual arousal.
Men are absolutely at fault for their own bad behaviours towards others, but I think it's equally important to point out that we shouldn't shame men for having sexual thoughts about women. When a woman wears revealing clothes, tight clothes, a man CANNOT stop his thoughts from going to a sexual place. That's just basic biology. We should also not shame women for wearing whatever they want to wear, but sometimes I get a feeling that some women pretend like they are oblivious to the fact that men get easily turned on, like they aren't aware of the fact that they can basically control a man's thoughts with how much or little of their bodies they show. Even writing this comment I am deathly afraid of getting backlash from women and be called a pervert and whatnot. I am ashamed of having a sexual desire for women, especially if they wear clothes that reveal what their bodies look like. It's not like I blame women for my desires, because I like that women are becoming more and more free and stand up for their rights. I want women to feel comfortable wearing anything from a boiler suit to a bikini. There will come a time when women wearing bikinis is no different than a man wearing swimming shorts, and perhaps even a time when women don't have to cover their breasts. I dunno, maybe. Hopefully.
Let me just point out that I don't blame women for asking for trouble if they wear revealing clothes.
@@HeriEystberg i feel very uncomfortable being around women in revealing clothing. i very purposely avoid looking at them. it's like walking through a mine field. and i agree, they act like they're oblivious to the sexuality of their own bodies. i emphasize "act", because i believe they are well aware in most cases. having said that, it definitely isn't their fault what people do with their own arousal. they definitely send mixed signals. i was all in with the "no means no" of the 90s (when i was young and dating) i was shocked when i had a girlfriend actually tell me, "if you want it, you should go ahead and take it". blew me away to hear that in the context of constantly being bombarded with, "no means no". men are not the only ones that didn't get that message. that experience (and others) prompted me to add "maybe" to the list of "no". not playing that guessing game. in that time, i was amazed at how easily women would come to my apartment after barely knowing me. as a father of 3 daughters, i advise against everything i enjoyed while dating. 😆
The amount of r*pe cases that were dismissed because "she was wearing red underwear" and "red underwear means she is looking for sex are pretty sickening... modesty culture is messed up and we should never blame women's clothes
Excuse me whut, that's horrifying like da fuk
The brain-lacking in these cases is insane.
This has "what were YOU doing at the witches Sabbath" energy
"her underwear was red"
Why did you know what color her underwear was?
I was groomed when I was a child, and you hit the nail right on the head. A culture that preaches purity above all else hurts far more girls than it helps. I was told that my body wasn't my own, and that it was my fault if I caused men to sin, so naturally I believed that it was my fault that someone decided to take advantage of me. Over the course of several years, I have had to unlearn those lessons that were taught to me, and accept that what happened was never my fault. It genuinely makes me sick to my stomach when I hear people preaching these ideas of modesty, especially to young girls. Modesty did not protect me from being abused, because it's not about what you wear. It's not even really about what you do. It's about someone deciding that they have a right to you and your body, because they live in a society that tells them that they do.
Yes!
Only disagreement: I don‘t see why preaching purity would help any girl at all (not just less girls than were harmed).
That God ownership gets me fuming everytime I hear it.
Exactly! I was brainwashed into believing my stepdad r@ping me was my fault at 11😢
@@iaminevitable_ my fault at 8 and 9. They weren't arrested because I wouldn't talk to the police directly. pardon my french but W.T.F.!!!!! i hope you are better now, not that we ever get over it.
yes! Amazing words and point🫶
As an AFAB transmasc person, this is so goddamn triggering. I didn't realize until halfway through this video, when I had to stop and take a break, how much the cult I grew up in really damaged me.
I didn't grow up in a cult personally, but as a fellow transmasc person I had to take frequent breaks throughout this video as well. I hope that you find a way to heal from the damage done to you by the awful environment you grew up in.
Deconstruction videos are fun and games until you realize how messed up it all was 😬
"AFAB transmasc. . . " you're just in the trans cult now.
I once participated in a program where they were talking about victims of r*pe. In fact, you can still go to the museum that displays the clothing of victims. Most of the clothing were long sleeves, pants, DIAPERS. It doesn’t matter what anyone wears… some people are just evil.
On a similar note about wearing turtle necks and pants, I once was propositioned by a man in a car while walking to college. My attire? A long sleeved formless sweater and jeans. I get propositioned wearing turtlenecks and baggy pants. There was nothing about my clothes that said I wanted to be hit on and anyone who continues to think that way need to sit down with a therapist.
Man this rhetoric really messed me up as a kid and younger woman. I played violin in high-school and right before a performance the wife of my pastor pulled me aside and said something to the effect of "I know your mother doesn't care very much how you dress but what you're wearing is making men sin. I've taught my sons to look away from women who dress like that." I was wearing a floor length dress. She was upset that it had a sort of bikini top, even though there was no cleavage visible. I cried. I was confused. I had felt good about the dress beforehand, I felt beautiful and strong and excited to perform my role in the orchestra. After she talked to me I felt like trash. I started to feel eyes on me, her (well trained) sons stared at me. My performance suffered and I didn't wear the dress again.
As a 19yo adult working in a call center I was pulled aside by management and told that I should wear a bra to work because I was distracting others. In my cubical. Where no one could see me. I was embarrassed partially because I was wearing two sports bras to try and minimize my breasts, and partially because she did this in front of my coworkers. So I pulled the top of my collar over to reveal the bra straps and asked her how many I was expected to wear. She left me alone after that but the interaction removed a large part of my sense of safety at work.
Just uggh. I really thought this mess would be settled by 2020, but I guess we've still got a long way to go.
It’s amazing to me how so many women are complicit in the shaming of other women. I’m sorry that happened to you. Honestly they were probably just jealous that you weren’t as ashamed of your body as they were.
@@LeBatteur it's internalised mysoginy and it's very common.
If I ever travel to the USA, I will be deported the second day of the trip because of the f bombs I would be dropping to everyone
*Now the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame. Genesis 2:25*
*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started seeing the world through our eyes rather than through God's eyes that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence evil actions, immoral character does.*
People are fucking stupid. I'm sorry you went through that
I am a high school teacher and flat out refuse to write students up for dress code issues. Unless it’s something obvious like a kid wearing a swastika or something, my students are always free to wear what makes them comfortable.
Based
That’s awesome. Most teachers will get all pissy if they see a student wearing a hat without a note.
What is inherently wrong with a “swastika or whatever”? It was not invented by the Nazi party and has many different meanings to different cultures. Symbols are not good or evil. Your statement reveals you still have the right to subjectively deem someone’s clothing acceptable or not. It’s still wrong.
@@SeekerGoOn2013 You are correct that the swastika is actually rooted in many eastern religions as a symbol of divinity and spirituality. However, given the connections to Nazis and fascism, swastikas aren’t generally used as a spiritual symbol where I live. I live in Alabama, USA. Local synagogues where I live have been defaced with slurs and swastikas in the past, as was the university I attended and graduated from. If I have a student who wishes to wear the symbol in connection with their faith, like Hinduism or Jainism, then I would obviously make an exception for that student. However, where I live, that symbol is used as hate speech far more often than not.
@@SeekerGoOn2013 I think I can tell when someone is genuinely trying to wear a symbol that they feel is connected to their culture/religion and when someone intends to use that symbol as hate speech and intimidation. I don’t reserve the right to police my students’ clothing choices, but I DO reserve the right to ensure a welcoming, comfortable, and respectful classroom for all of my students. Hate speech isn’t protected as free speech.
I cannot stress enough how deeply psychologically disturbing it is to have your own father obsess about how sexual your body looks. I feel like that’s not talked about enough.
Fathers are highly overrated.
@@jackhammer4189 Fathers are the evil males in this scenario. As well as outside males. Jealous fathers are absolutely desiring their daughters sexually. Pot calling the kettle black. Fathers are not safe.
@@jackhammer4189 I'm reading this to my dad and we're laughing. He knows that anyone could have done his job, if they were diligent and dedicated.
@@jackhammer4189 If that were the case, then you'd be right. Believe or not, there are some males in the world that are humble enough to admit that the job of a father can be done by anyone.
@@jackhammer4189 That's due to a loss of income, love. Not because dad's so awesome.
I’m so glad Girl Defined (?) wasn’t a thing when I was in high school. I’d have been right into it. As someone who now hates the purity culture I bought into back then, thank you for this.
I think about this all the time. Them and Paul and Morgan. I know I would have thought they were great. Now i can't stand their messages
They’re poison with a smile.
I'm pretty sure i had to read it at purity camp when i was 15. Or at least something extremely similar to it.
I can’t believe that I used to read them unironically. Shows how brainwashed I was. Brainwashed to feel superior for my “purity” when really I intentionally broke every modesty rule because I wanted to look cute and I hate following rules. That dual-mind-high-demand-religion lyfe.
I used to believe that women who dressed in two-piece bathing suits and had sex before marriage were evil, deplorable people.
When I was in high school, the girls were not allowed to wear tank tops.
It was because of the teachers. I know what you're thinking right now, and you're correct.
I noticed in high school that dress codes were more heavily enforced when it came to girls. The most egregious example of which happened in my P.E. class. Boys were required to wear shirts for gym, but would take them off when playing ball. Nothing was said to them by the male teachers. As soon as a girl's gym shorts got a little on the short side, they were made to change. My school's dress code required that we wear shorts with a 3-inch inseam. Most of us girls wore jeans year round just to avoid being dress coded.
@@happyascheese My school also has phases of measuring skirts, but I recall when girls' tank tops were banned because the teachers kept looking down their shirts.
@@BaronVonQuiply Good gracious that's awful!
I remember the no tank top rule in my high school dress code. But in my high school, it meant all the students.
This is why there are so many pedos in that field. People see the warning signs, but they'd rather blame kids than the creepers pursuing them.
The idea that parents have any control over what their kids wear beyond ensuring they’re not naked, and instilling the idea that you have to dress to appease others? Foul. Also, if no one can tell your work is satire, it’s not satire
The more you try to control your children by force the more likely they'll be to hate you or lie to your face
@@suezuccati304 Agreed. The best way to get somebody to do something is to explain to them your reasoning for WHY it should be done. If they judge your reasoning to be sound, they will do it _willingly._ 🥰
@@leyrua no, i'm not saying that your children will do everything you want. Part of having children is knowing that they are human beings with complete separate personalities from you.
It doesn't matters how much you love them, you need to accept that your children will opt to do things in unpredictable and uncontrollable ways, and there's nothing you can do to prevent that.
@@leyrua Amen, brother!
Personally, I kinda get the idea behind deciding what is appropriate for your kids to wear, but, like, I don't want to just say "No, my spawn, you will wear the leather jacket and ripped jeans", because people should wear what they wanna wear.
Does that make sense?
My Dad was Southern Baptist and when I reached high school it was just insane. In the early 1960’s girls had to be very modest at school. I would do something my Dad didn’t like and later would hear him yelling at my Mom “If this keeps up she’ll be pregnant and bring a baby home.” My sin was going into the town and buying a pair of socks.
Every story I hear about that country is awful I'm sorry you had to live like that
I knew some Baptist kids growing up. I remember the daughter wasn't allowed to wear pants yet she had to be modest. But her skirts showed more leg than pants did... and that's supposed to make sense??
"Don't dress like that! You'll draw attention from the wrong people!"
Translation:
"Don't dress like that! You're drawing my attention!"
Gross.
People who do that really are the wrong people
I mean, he is the wrong person
@@slevinchannel7589 Are you giving the investment firms that market provocative clothing a free pass? If a capital investment firm decides they want it to be a fad, the girls they're marketing to barely have any say in the matter. These marketing firms know what they're doing, and their campaigns are exactly why girls keep getting convinced they want that clothing or think it's the best thing to wear.
@@slevinchannel7589 I agree.
Me: Control yourself or I’ll do it for you…
Imagine being so insecure in your own conscience you demand everyone hold your religous standards so you don't even have to consider exercising self control.
“How much knowledge we give to strangers” oh sorry, I thought it was obvious that I have a belly, legs, and chest…my bad. Guess that was some secret information.
Shhh, no one's supposed to know you have shoulders...
lmao
Look you didn't need to show the world you had ankles, why not wear a Catholic altar server cassock everyday for the rest of your life or something.
You have what???! So I'm the only floating pair of hands and a face out there? I can't be the only one...
Yeah cuz they can totally gauge your moral code from your kneecaps 😑 oh the justifications these days are just wow 👌
Well..... speaking from experience, even dressing nerdy and modestly won't "protect" women from sexual predators. I have a really disturbing story to tell about this, MY own experience. Many years ago, when I was still a musician playing out publicly and collaborating with other musicians (almost exclusively males, btw), I was probably one of the most modestly dressed females in the entire entertainment industry. It was also common to meet other musicians via Craigslist to collaborate with. One particular time, when I was planning to meet up with a musician to discuss some possible collaborations, we made arrangements to meet at his usual hangout, a bar that had karaoke. I wore very baggy clothes, no makeup, glasses, and my hair in a bun. He kept trying to buy me or give me drinks all night, but I refused many of them. He also acted very inappropriately with me from the jump, which I couldn't understand because I was literally dressed like a needy slob and told him I was a lesbian. We went back to my place to get started working on some material, but he just kept trying to force himself on me and even tried to shove me up against the wall to trap me. But I then grabbed his wretched ass and mangled him towards the door I opened and told him to get the F*** out, or I was calling the police. He pouted like an insolent child some more before I shoved his ass the rest of the way out the door. I STILL can't believe the sheer audacity, and I was NOT dressed provocatively AT ALL!!!!!
Also, his name is Henry Blanchard and is based in San Antonio, TX. Complete monster and sexual predator.
Thank you for doxxing that sick bastard. I'm sorry he did those horrible things.
@detective2221 Women all know that this is true. This is how males act.
@detective2221 Are you kidding? We women have all experienced something like this.
@detective2221 Wow, you really suck
I was the pinicle of 'modesty' as a teenager. My dad still assaulted me. It's bull shit
Wearing skirts facilitates rape, when you come down to it. A woman might deflect assault wearing tight pants, but all a man has to do to rape a woman in a dress is pull up her skirt. No matter how long that skirt is, it can't protect her the way pants can.
@@nohjuan3048 that's a good point. I always had leggings work my shirts though
Same. Was a pastor.
@@smokyquartz5817That's such shit. Sorry that happened to you.
@@humanbean852 Thank you. You too.
The reason the dad wants his daughters covered up is because he’s afraid boys will objectify them the same way he did to other women
They probably will there are a lot of creeps out there and girls/ women are very sexualized in our society its a sad fact
Oh, so if you know that there is bad people out there, that means your one? How dare the father care about his kids! It's not the girl's faulit if boys objectify them, but if there is a way to avoid it, why wouldn't you?
I always felt when men try to make their daughters wear as much clothing as possible, it's more about their ego than it really is about their daughter's safety.
I'm horrified by how they publicly humiliated and harrassed that meteorologist on television while she was working! Potentially ruining her personal and professional life on purpose. Intentionally cruel and likely violating any even half-assed anti-harrasment policies. They surprised her in front of the whole world with gender-based harrassment, and probably racial-based, and body shaming. I think it's also likely that management expects her to dress up, but will disavow and hang her out to dry for ratings. She looks devastated. Hope she sued the pants off them and won, but whatever happened after, I'm sure it's a huge blow to her confidence and career - intentional, malicious sabotage by the viewers and staff. That clip is going to haunt me forever.
I’m a meteorologist albeit not the tv kind. There’s a couple of dresses that a lot of young female tv meteorologists wear because it reduces (but does not eliminate) the number of disgusting messages they get from viewers.
You guys can see more background on this incident in the video "KTLA Meteorologist Liberte Chan forced to cover up revealing' black dress getting a lot of emails".
And they WAITED until they were live.
When I was 15, I was wearing a full length gown when my best friends dad tried to hit me in the butt. I have always dressed in a way that society would consider modest for my own comfort. Clothes are not the problem. Sexual predators are the problem.
I got dress coded for no wearing a bra by a random teacher I didn't know. Gender unknown. When I expressed how uncomfortable I was with the idea that a teacher I didn't know, didn't have classes with, was staring at my chest long enough to know I wasn't wearing a bra they just acted like "Dose da rule!"
I think the teach wrote you up so (s)he could find out your name, maybe call you up later for a hookup.
@@nohjuan3048 ????????????????????????????????????????
@@mh3551 Like there aren't creepy teachers out there who would do that.
whats weird about it? you werentbwearing a bra in school wtf did you expect? Lucky you didnt get booted roflmao
@@Lhaenen But your disdain for a girl who didn't wear a bra didn't keep you from ogling her breasts, did it Zet?
I'm a woman who is attracted to women. I was on my high school swim team and we would all change together. I did not hit a stumbling block.
Same to me. Not about swim team and stuff, but in other situations
It would serve society well if we didn't consider any kind of nudity as sexual.
I'm not living in the US and it's not as strong here but it's still noticeable.
FRR we all change together in volleyball, but I don’t stare at everyone nor am I attracted to them lol
YES! Because we RESPECT one another and know how it feels to be oggled at
Its because u dont have the same urge as men
I got in an argument with one of my uncles who has four daughters. There was a girl at a local university was raped and he posted a link to an article shaming/blaming The girl. It's been a long time and I don't remember the specifics now but I asked him if this was one of his daughters would he be concerned about what she was wearing or about what happened to her. It's fucking insane to me that people want to blame girls and women for something happening to them because of how they were dressed instead of teaching boys that that behavior is wrong.
This was around the 2016 election. I learned a lot about a lot of my family. I don't talk to most of them very much anymore. They're surprisingly gross people for growing up in such a religious household.
No, that's exactly what I expect to come out of a religious household. I'm pleasantly surprised when someone raised like that sees through the grossness and rejects it.
I think it’s just more about what you choose. Lots of shit has gone on in my family too
Ex. My dad is homophobic but he was homophobic when he was an atheist as well. I think if you’re fine with what’s going on, you won’t go against it, but if you’re trying to find the truth about what’s moral or not, you’ll find out what’s moral eventually.
Why is that surprising? This video is literally about how religion plays into misogyny. The grossest people I have met were strongly religious, the meanest community I have ever had the misfortune to be part of was the fundamentalist church I grew up in. Religion allows you to convince yourself that you are a good person while actively harming people around you.
@@bw3839 because they were always so kind and seemed so different when I was growing up. As an adult and with the 2016 election it was like time for all the ugly to come out.
"WOW!!!! Your 12 year old daughter has really 'grown up' over the summer, better start locking her away, haha" - 50% of christian dads
"... is hotter... How he wants his daughters to dress"
methinks there's some underlying secksual tension
i think his fbi agent is very happy.
@@slevinchannel7589 Tell that to the nudists!
*It seems to me like most people are confusing sexuality for lust so let me explain it...*
*Sexuality-The attraction men and women feel for each other. This consists of flirting, teasing, sexy clothes, sexy dancing, dating, urges, desires and fantasies and it all culminates with masturbation. This is the most powerful urge God implanted in us in order to push us to being sexual beings with an urge for connection to each other.*
*Lust-Purr version that manipulates the concept of sexuality and uses it to harm and abuse others. This includes: Home...O...sexuality, pedophilia, rape, incest, prostitution, porn, molestation, necrophilia, zoophilia and cheating.*
*These are the REAL meanings of these things but religion and human stupidity blur the lines between these things and merge them together even though that makes no sense.*
Being raised as a muslim girl feels like the exact same thing. Everything I wear, I have to consider how men might feel if they saw me in it. I'm lucky that my parents didn't force a dreaded headscarf on me, a lot of my friends didn't have that choice unfortunately.
There are a lot of ex muslims out there who could give you support. Besides, the chauvinistic behavior of muslims doesn't even stop at muslim majority countries but they go with them to western countries. Last week a woman tv anchor was defending a man who smacked his woman in public. 💀
Oh brother
It's the same thing and it's stupid. You shouldn't be forced to wear or not wear anything and neither should anyone.
I like how with the photo of the couple at the beach, he approached *him* instead of *her* while the woman was clearly the one wearing the clothing he was so upset about.
Yeah, that's because in his moral framework the husband "has dominion" over the wife...ugh.🙄
@@SatanasExMachina and this is one of the reasons.. I am agnostic.. Urgh..
@@yachishairclips2250 I'm a Christian, and I don't blame you....
Might have been that he posted it on his Instagram
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical*
*The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.*
*Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
I'm German and grew up in a nudist family. Being naked between naked people of all ages and genders was and is absolutely normal to me. Nobody ever stared there, nobody assaulted anyone. It's a very respectful environment.
Now if this is possible in Germany, I'm sure humans can control their behaviour and aren't deemed to assault a person for showing too much skin.
Yeah I think that the focus on modesty is counterproductive. If people are exposed to the idea of non sexual nudity they stop automatically thinking of sex just because there's nudity
Who knows if that will reduce sexual assault but it's worth a shot I think 🤷
Oh, you live the dream! People are usually quite objectifying about the human body and being able to have lived that way sounds like such a liberating thing.
@@amazinggrapes3045 I always thought the world would be better off if sex didn’t exist. Just think, no one is sexualizing anyone’s bodies. Also, if we abandoned sex, humans would start doing a lot better than they are right now. The world would probably be a lot better place without sex.
For example, sex ruins nudity since many people think that sex and nudity are always linked together. Because of sex, people always think nudity is sexual (when not all nudity is sexual). People tend to lump nudity and sex together as being inseparable. This is far from true, and one of the main reasons so many people are against nudity to begin with. The concept of nudity in itself isn't sexual. In a world without sex, people’s anxiety with being naked goes away, body image issues would go down because everyone would be so comfortable with their body. What a life that would be...
Nudity is natural, while sex is not natural.
@@amazinggrapes3045 I always thought the world would be better off if sex didn’t exist. Just think, no one is sexualizing anyone’s bodies. Also, if we abandoned sex, humans would start doing a lot better than they are right now. The world would probably be a lot better place without sex.
@@amazinggrapes3045 For example, sex ruins nudity since many people think that sex and nudity are always linked together. Because of sex, people always think nudity is sexual (when not all nudity is sexual). People tend to lump nudity and sex together as being inseparable. This is far from true, and one of the main reasons so many people are against nudity to begin with.
Where I came from (Ultra Orthodox Judiasm), those outfits girl defined were wearing would be incredibly immodest; sleeves have to go past the elbow. Just goes to show, modesty is relative, it's all in the eyes of the beholder. Make of that what you will.
If these girls step a foot in Saudi Arabia, they would be thrown in jail for showing too much skin
Traditional western clothing has long played with psychology and sexuality/modesty. Whatever is covered becomes sexualized while whatever is uncovered becomes ho-hum accepted, so fashion switches out covered/uncovered in an attempt to keep the body interesting: show this area this season, somewhere else next. As if, should most people run around naked for any length of time, there'd be no sex people would be so bored. Covering everything hardly makes anyone safer.
I was thinking the same thing. I used to be Modern Orthodox and I was still thinking 'Oh, you think that's modesty? That's cute.'
So, it's just a bogus religious opinion?
Even Abby Shapiro who's supposed to be talking about modesty as a Jewish woman still completely ignores the standards she must have grown up with!
Modest influencers are so selective! Just goes to show that its nothing but propaganda.
“Dont interpret the bible literally, interpret it correctly”
Yea thats definitely gonna be consistent
They should have quoted the sermon on the mount where Jesus point blank told the men if they looked at a woman with Lust that they commited adultery with her in their heart. He did nto shame women! Also men cause women to stumble too when they are half naked! How is it ok with tanks and shorts for men but not women? Grow up folks. Men stop looking at me.
Yup. So, I was sort of a "scene kid" in high school... one of my best friends was wearing ripped up skinny jeans. Holes all up and down them. So, to try to make sure she wasn't breaking dress code and because it's fun and cute, she wore some leggings (not see through in the least even without pants over them) with a bright, crazy pattern on them under those jeans. My girl was wearing two layers of pants. Got sent home from school by 3rd period because some of the holes were too high up on the pants (aka, above finger tip length which is what they went by for shorts and skirts I guess). Meanwhile... it was a game day for the football team which meant the cheer leaders all wore their cheer leading outfits to school all day. Showing FAR more skin than she was with her leggings, jeans, and concert t-shirt. The cheerleading outfits were fitted, sleeveless tops and the fitted skirts weren't finger tip length on most of the girls. Apparently that was ok because they're cheerleaders? But anyone else... especially if you weren't a preppy/popular/wealthy girl... completely unacceptable, you're going home. Hope you don't miss an important test or notes or anything. Idk if this double standard along side the weird obsession with high school girls' bodies is as common elsewhere as it is in the southern US... but yea...
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical*
*The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.*
*Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
I graduated from high school 17 years ago but even back then, the discrepancy in dress code from regular students to cheerleaders was flabbergasting. Their skirts sometimes didn’t cover their entire butts. The same code was not extended to any other students. At least now there’s some advantages to social media being able to call this out.
What? The Christian school I went to was fine with shorter stuff or rips like that if you had leggings under it. I wore shorter shorts and leggings for gym quite a lot since it was easier to move in the short ones. Then again, that same school is saying they can't get acrobatics uniforms because they're too revealing... So me being me, I offered to sew them if they couldn't find anything already made. I made myself a bathing suit with long legs, but that's due to a disability where I need leg compression, and I also had to stop shaving my legs, so it was easier to sew a pair of swim leggings with a top attached, than buy something that fit.
@@joylox *The fact that we as a society put so much attention into something so petty and worthless is just sad.*
@@joylox was this school in the South? If so, it must have been in some sort of liberal bubble? Any church run school that I've ever known about around where I grew up and where I live now (different state) have all had strict uniform policies, not just dress codes. Even the all girls schools. A lot of the public schools around where I live now also have uniforms.
I had to set a colleague straight recently. He's the father of a teenage daughter, and he is that stereotypical protective dad, saying he's going to be cleaning his gun collection whenever his daughter brings a boy home, etc. He was commenting about his daughter wearing short shorts when they went out to eat and how angry he got when she was ogled by a couple of adults there. His response was to tell his daughter he wanted her to cover up and not to wear that type of clothing anymore. My response to him was that she should be able to dress however she feels comfortable. "Your beef is with those guys acting inappropriately, not with your daughter's mode of dress." I think I got through to him.
“I don’t wanna see your upper legs.” Then pluck your eyes out.
Ikr i see crap i don't wanna see all the time. Deal with it 🤬
Mmmm that was straight fire my dude
jesus said so. gotta do what jesus says, amirite? 😂
@@officaldaelight exactly! Mathew 5:29 - Jesus said "Sounds like a you problem, buddy. Pluck out your eye."
During the video I was thinking, I don't care what you wear from nothing to 73 separate hoodies. You can dress how you like, but I'm gonna wear a T-shirt and shorts.
I never understood the "point" parents make when embarrassing their kids. Pushing your kids away, justifying their embarrassment of you, showing how old and out of touch you are.... if you can't sit down with them and have a normal serious conversation and get them to respect your wishes as a parent how is the next logical step "look at me I'm wearing short shorts too!"
Christians:
"God created our beautiful bodies! His perfect design, manifest!"
Also,
"Cover up your body! You should feel ashamed!"
It's also hypocritical when you look at the whole Garden of Eden story, where God created them naked and without shame
A husband and his wife should be the only people seeing each others' bodies. That's just common sense.
@@jesusistheonlygodamen3406 Very common sense, sure, they should be the only ones to judge since they are involved in a Union. But some seem to miss the huge logs in their own eyes. You'd have to look at the bodies and clothes that belong to other people in order to judge them, no? I'm telling you, you are already committing fornication with your eyes by even looking at them. Even if it is in order to "moral police judge only" how sexual the body of another is. Or did the character of Jesus in most cannons say "you are committing adultery with your clothes," then? No, it is YOUR EYES/MIND/MOUTH/HANDS that make you sin ("miss the point"), not your clothes. It is modesty of the spirit that you want, not modesty of the clothes on the body. I don't recall it being "what goes into/onto your body what defiles you" but instead more of "what comes out of your mouth defiles you... and out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks" So if you think sexually enough that would lead you to speak sex about a body or clothes, you are OVER-THINKING sex about a body or clothes. As such, a "modesty Christian" and a "modesty Muslim" are already committing fornication in their mind by even judging the clothes on another person's body, spiritual RAPE as a matter of fact, when you look at it from a Humble Purity point of view actually. The judgement of the specks-in-their-eyes (clothes) on another is similar to how the Roman pagans did by calling pants on males "immodest" clothes that only immoral barbarians in the sticks would wear... immoral because they do not want to be part of the Roman Empire to be forced to do as Romans meaninglessly do in their own cultural supremacy/freedom judgment.
Even Paul (the money-collector) and the (spreader of Abrahamic Unjewishness, Mercy-to-Gentiles, Trick Cup-of-Wrath on Rome, Gentile-Subservience-to-Abraham against James the Just' wishes for full-law-abiding Abrahamism) is written to say in Galatians 5:2-3 (if you cannot dare yourself to read more than 2 verses from a false religion that you may not like the full details of) that if you want to follow the bodily circumcision, or even ANY extra-Noahide law, then you should follow all the laws instead of being a hypocrite to your own convenience instead of the glory of Jesus of the flaming eyes and double-edged tongue and Yahweh of the face hidden in dark clouds and feet that turn the ground into meaningless (yet precious to fallible people) dark-blue stone.
At least to yourselves be true, if you are truly as Bibliolatrous as a Muslim is Quranolatrous (or further even Hadithlatrous). You will find that contradictory to what Christian tricksters-even-onto-themselves-and-onto-ignorance-of-their-many-denominations say about Islam being hard and Hinduism being confusing... it's just the psychological defense mechanism of projection from Christianity (as an in-group of people) since it outpaces them both in those regards on many instances.
@@jesusistheonlygodamen3406 ahem. Doctors seeing patients bodies. Bra sales assistants seeing the women's bodies that they serve. I can give more examples if you need me to.
Sometimes Christians know better than God.
As someone who was raised in the “modest is hottest” culture from a very young age, I cannot begin to explain how damaging it is to young girls. I distinctly remember being in a youth group where they had fashion shows of “acceptable” clothing or referenced someone who had sex outside of marriage as a chewed up piece of gum. Even today as I’m still deconstructing I find these teachings the hardest to break away from. Thank you for making this video it’s truly helped me
The facts are it doesn't matter what we wear we get blamed for rape.
When I was about 7 my catholic school had a running fundraiser. I remember being so excited to go , I bought these bright pink zebra shorts with my mom. When I arrived, a male staff member told me that my shorts were too short and they called my mother. Naturally I was a tall kid and all shorts were short on me. When my mother asked why I had to change they said I would “ arouse the boys “, and that it is against Jesus’ wishes to show off your body in a way like that. Imagine telling that to a SEVEN year old. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS
It sounds as if they're talking about themselves to you. Saying that to a literal child is just disgusting as hell. If I had a younger sister and someone said that to her, I'd be furious as hell
like what seven year old is gonna care
None
*So why do you care*
If we were created in God's image, then wouldn't that mean teaching people to be ashamed of their body, is teaching people to be ashamed of God?
Pretty much, but shame and all other evils are blamed on people exercising their God-given free will. 🐍🍎 It all comes down to theodicy.
God wanted men to mutilate the bodies he created for purity.
You're not supposed to be ashamed of your body. You cover your body because it's special and private. It has nothing to do with shame.
@@AlphabetCookie Not true! In Genesis 3:7 "At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves." NLT
Later, Adam explains to God that he was naked, so he hid from him. Like literally directly after: "And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool[c] of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?”[d] 10 And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” "
I'm not like... one of those crazy religious haters or anything, but that was a pretty crucial part of Genesis lol.
@@stinkyjoe4720 Adam being ashamed of his nakedness was WRONG. He should wear clothes so he's not ashamed. And he wasn't ashamed of his body, he was ashamed that he was naked in public. Being "ashamed" (that's not even how it feels but whatever) of being naked has nothing to do with being ashamed of your body.
Biblical angels making these wild beauty standards. If your face isn't part of your body, you can't make rules for humans, dude.
Angel: LITERAL ROTATING BALL OF IRON AND FIRE SUSPENDED BY WINGS
Men of Sodom: You got a purty mouth.
To be fair, Angel design in the bible was badass. They would make for great dark souls bosses
@@michac.8283 "Angel" in the bible were either described to look like men that did not look any other than what you see on Earth OR wildly crazy many eyed somethings.
The only place where a form of angel like we see in Christian art EVERYWHERE is even described (guy with wing) is when god dictated Moses like 50 pages of regulations how to make the Ark of the Covenant and the Temple/Tabernacel to hide it in...
And then Christian overactive imagination even went further and made up "ranks" of angels the bible doesn't even mean to be angels, like Dominions and Thrones and what else ridiculous nonsense they took out of context... Seems Aquinas had a central role in claiming that had to be special names for types of angels...
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". Col 1:16
BE NOT AFRAID!
@@Ugly_German_Truths I believe the Bible says that angels in their true from take up the numerous Eldritch forms we now understand, however they can change their appearance to be as human
I'm happy to see that progressive atheism is blowing up. I remember back in 2015-2016 when of of the major atheist youtubers hopped on the Anti-SJW train and started promoting another set of lies much like the religious people they used to criticize.
Modesty is a strange thing. We, in the West, can recognize how forcing (not letting them express their religion, there's a subtle difference) women in Islamic countries to wear burkhas has negative impact on their well-being. Because it doesn't matter how much those women are covered. When it's their "responsibility" to not arouse men anything, even looking into a man's eyes for a second, becomes a valid excuse for violence
And yet we follow exactly the same logic. We still believe that wearing enough of flimsy fabric will protect us from assault. Or worse - we blame victims for their "provocative" clothing choice. The only difference is the amount of skin we're allowed to show before it becomes dangerous. And maybe that we won't be stoned for it tho I know about couple fundies who would love to change it
From my personal experience sexual predators don't care about what you wear. Thank whatever non-existent deity I've never been attacked but I was "proposed" by an adult. I was a teen when it happened. I wore plain, long jeans and T-shirt. I didn't have make up. I was as sexless as it's possible but for this guy I was "tempting"
In the end the only logical piece of clothing that should be dictated is underpants for hygenic reasons. Anything other should be chosen depending on how it makes you feel. I don't want to walk around half naked bc it's just not me. Whatever other people (not just women) wear doesn't impact my life
Burkhas are really just the logical end point of "Modesty" and christain will eventally push for similar harsh clothing restrictions on women if we let them.
yeah we do :/
@@Szadek23 They can't see that they're losing the fight on this one; used to be ankles were too "provocative", then it was knees, now Western society at large has whittled this antiquated modesty logic down to largely just "cover your bits".
@@Szadek23 Yep. Instead of controlling their own impulses, they want to control everyone else. It would end up just like the Handmaids Tale. Hell these folk openly advocate for that kind of society anyway.
I also would like to add that in the Bible, god created us to roam naked. “WE” chose modesty because of shame. I firmly believe god doesn’t give a shit how much/little clothing we wear as it was our decision entirely. Only the wicked who can’t control themselves have issue with it.
I can relate to these girls who were harassed for not wearing bras. Through lots of soul searching, I felt empowered to wear what was comfortable for me (most people who wear brass who agree that they're uncomfortable). One day I was harassed while walking my dog and when I tried to tell my parents, my dad said that if I get harassed it's my fault for not covering up. That was the day I realized that I will never be safe or defended when I step out my house, because even people who are covered up still get harassed and assaulted.
It's not about modesty, it's about systemic controlling and conditioning according to what's inconvenient for men.
I worked at the St. Louis Art Museum when one of our christian art guards alerted management that there was a woman who needed to be kicked out of the museum because her dress was too short. It was a HUGE deal. I THINK they ended up leaving her alone but there were a LOT of workers who agreed that she should be kicked out of the museum. Weirdos.
Hoorah for "the land of the free".
went into a mental hospital, a literal childrens psychiatric ward, and had one of the mental PROFESSIONALS there ask if I was “always dressed this provocatively” i was in a crop top, a jacket and sweat pants I was 14 years old and I was in there for suicide, as if my outfit has anything to do with how my brain works . this shit effects every part of life, it effects everything and it pisses me off.
Weird meds were wicked.
I was in a mental hospital. We were adults but it was still uncomfortable to be told constantly whenever my clothes were riding up or slipping.
And yet it was my sweater-clad 18 year old roommate who was molested in a room full of people.
I completely blame the hospital and their obsession with rules and regulations over the purposes of them. Never slept a wink because they have to check on us every 15 minutes... and they were so focused on the numbers they barely looked at the people right in front of them. Cramming far too many beds into a unit whose day rooms could barely hold half of them at once. It was criminal to call it a hospital.
19:37 The real irony Is that the Christian populace, who believe that to lust for someone in your heart is to lust for them in the flesh, seem ridiculously preoccupied with censoring the bodies of other people...even when not dressed "inappropriately". This is like a weird mix of religiously based oppression meets a lack of personal accountability. Why not just...not objectify women?🤔
Thats too hard for orthodox christians
Because according to the Bible, women are objects of their fathers and then husbands. No other options are considered or allowed.
@@Nopeasaurus Uh... The passages that say a man must provide a dowry to a girl's father if she's to be married, the one that says r*pists can pay for their crimes by literally buying their victim from her father for some silver, basically every passage Girl Defined, Transformed Wife, Paul & Morgan, and Biblical Gender Roles quote for all of their, "Women must submit to their husbands and basically be their good little slave" rules for a happy life as a happy wife...
Because boobs are awesome and they're terrified of God's wrath, ergo, their dirty thoughts are a girls fault.
*The problem is most people don't even know what lust is. You probably think lust and sexuality are the same thing...guess what?...THEY'RE NOT. Sexuality is completely natural, healthy and proven to lengthen a life span. Lust is a manipulation of sexuality that harms yourself and others. Having a sexual feeling for someone isn't "lusting" after them. God created us to be sexual beings, that's why He gave us genitals and sex hormones. Also it's clinically proven that we benefit from daily masturbation meaning we benefit from sexual urges further proving that we're supposed to, by God's design, embrace our sexual nature. So even if someone is dressing to be enticing and turn heads, that's completely natural.*
I love the response I've heard recently. "Jesus told men who were tempted by appearance to pluck out their own eyes."
He also said that if they wanna touch a lady so bad they should just cut their hands off to make sure they don't touch anyone
But according to the last guy, that's not meant to be taken literally. The only parts in the bible meant to be taken literally ae parts where women should dress modestly, and is responsible for those around her, and where she should be obedient. But When it comes to the parts about men being accountable... nope thats not meant to be taken literally!
*That's a metaphor for getting rid of the thing that's causing you to sin. It had nothing to do with clothing.*
Yep and chop off their hand.
My parents are evangelical Christians, but this is one thing they did right. They treated modesty as wearing clothes appropriate to my age mostly. Same with makeup. As long as my mother was okay with it, it was fine. And the only thing she didn’t like were miniskirts. I could live with that. I got to wear heels before any of my classmates, halter dresses, and I went to private school. I was super awkward and nerdy, so everyone was super mad that the weird kid was allowed things when the cool kids weren’t. My parents have their own issues, but I super appreciate that my mother mostly let me wear what I wanted in teenagerdom.
That sounds so incredibly rational. I don't expect parents to be perfect- not liking miniskirts isn't making you wear sweatpants and baggy shirts and it's nice you could express yourself, at least in that way!
Your parents sounds amazing ❤️
For the most part I can't care how people dress. I can care if they look down upon people who are "different"
i went to a christian highschool where we had this big retreat at the end of the year. one night i decided to open up for the first to a some girl friends about the time i was SA'ed when I was younger. And while it was at first relieving to be finally comforted and to let out my tears on a friend's shoulder, it quickly turned to shame. An older teacher overheard our group convo and said.
"You must have been rather revealing for that to happen to you because you are adorable." I felt so betrayed, disturbed, and shamed. All i could respond with was
"But i was 9..." I don't remember what happened afterwards because I had broke down and had a panic attack.
I was wearing an elementary school uniform btw...
appoarently I was a whore at 5! (face palm) what is wrong wtih meN?!?!
The Christian summer camp I went to made all girls wear one-piece swimsuits and shorts over that while the boys could just wear swim shorts and no shirt. And whenever my church went on trips, we would have a whole presentation and giant list of things girls could and couldn’t wear while with boys it was pretty much just don’t wear a Speedo or shirts with non-Christian bands. It’s like the standards aren’t the same or something.
It’s almost like Woman And Men aren’t the same. Wake up you fool, school lied to you.
@@aguilarraliuga1777Christianity fooled you.
So they did ban " budgie smugglers " ( speedos ).
Women’s bodies are considered inherently sexual while men’s aren’t.
huh, it's almost like guys and girls are different.
"The Bible should not be interpreted literally; it should be interpreted correctly."
Literally just an excuse to interpret the Bible however you want, taking whatever parts fit your agenda/narrative literally as literal and whatever parts fit our agenda/narrative figuratively as figurative, with the implication being that the person invoking this is always right and just because *they* are the one to interpret the Bible CorReCTly...
No it’s actually pretty sound advice, much of the Hebrew Bible is meant to be myth not history. Most of the stories are meant to be read as allegorical explanation what the law is, how the law was acquired, and the relationship between God and Israel.
As the Hebrew Bible was written in an attempt to preserve the Religion and Culture of the ancient Jews while in Exile. It’s why some of the stories contradict each other. It’s not one single narrative but multiple stories by multiple authors combined together to avoid the stories being lost.
If you read the Bible literally you’re going to end up misunderstanding a lot of what it has to say simply because it was written in a different time, for a different people, in a different context, in a different language
With all of that said however I doubt most Christian Conservatives are actually looking into the historical context of the Bible when interpreting what it’s saying. And I doubt he was going to go onto say that the passage is an example of hyperbole meant to emphasize the point that we are responsible for our own actions not others and you cannot blame women for you lusting after them.
"Everyone interprets the bible incorrectly except for me." -Everyone
@@cccaaa702 That is the christian humility as we know it... only THEY do Christian in the really true way, all the others have fallen from the way, especially Catholics that did this christianing thing way longer than any of the reformed flavours...
I have spotted a troll here. That annoying little channel called "Slevin Channel" -_-
Truth Bomb: the one who defines the terms wins the debate.
Oh my god that guy who thinks that showing your wife on camera makes people think she's an object to be dominated. No! If someone sees her and thinks she's a sex object that's their problem, not hers, not her husband's
Exactly! Normal people don’t think like that. It’s a good photo and green looks good on her. Then again, sexual repression is a hell of a drug.
Fat shaming and purity culture are BFFs. You really can’t have purity culture without fat shaming.
I KNOW right? 🤣😂😂
Be modest.
NO! NOT LIKE THAT!
Right
WILLINK ?
I hate the way society makes us ashamed of our own bodies.
Society is just composed of people. When left to their own Dark Age devices/preferences, people will be hypocritically jealous, ignorantly shallow, psychologically defensive, fretfully judgmental, overly controlling, self-servingly overgeneralizing, and on and on. The people who are in the wrong need to hear more education about societal reality which public schools are barred from teaching them out of fear of "insulting religions/cultures" rather than what they should fear which is being/encouraging ignorance and empowering fear itself.
@@letsomethingshine If you allow people power over you, they will constantly try to grab more and more power. And can we ask why women are consistently oppressed in nearly every culture?
@Sean There are a few successful cultures that did treat women as equals, the vikings were notoriously vicious and women would go viking alongside their male counterparts
*Nowhere in the Bible does it say that our bodies cause others to sin, that's a misinterpretation. The Bible is clear that our bodies are made in God's image and, because of that, we're the crown jewel of His creation. That's why there was no shame in nudity but we've lost sight of that but that doesn't mean that truth changes. Hebrews 13:8 tells us that Jesus is the same yesterday and today and tomorrow so if He thought our bodies were shameless yesterday, He still believes this today. Yes we have to cover certain areas of our bodies when we're in public because we'll get arrested for indecent exposure if we don't but clothing isn't God's creation nor was it ever intended by Him so it's not a priority of His. 1 Samuel 16:7 says WE LOOK AT PHYSICAL APPEARANCE WHILE GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART ❤ and that couldn't be any more true. David, Esther, Isaiah and Adam and Eve (before the fall) were all elevated when they embraced their natural beauty (bodies) so our bodies are not shameful "stumbling blocks", they're glorious elevation tools.*
Thank to cosplaying I grew to be more comfortable in my body and it is not my fault if the boy horny
The very definition of "sexual harassment" includes the word "unwelcome." How the hell can a person "invite" it?
@@jackhammer4189 There is a difference between receiving attention and receiving sexual assault.
@@jackhammer4189 Before we continue this back and forth, I need to know: what stance are you trying to take here?
@@jackhammer4189 I don't like to assume. I would prefer to hear your thesis statement in your own words.
@@jackhammer4189 Then this conversation ends. I don't know for what reason you would cast fault for sexual assault on the victim, rather than wholly on the perpetrator, but I know that I have no interest in dignifying such a view with any further responses. I hope your mind changes on the matter.
I think the lyrics of Melanie Martinez's song Strawberry Shortcake sums up the hypocrisy of modesty culture pretty well.
"Instead of making me feel bad for the body I've got,
Just teach him to keep it in his pants and tell him to stop."
Edit: The replies under this comment are a good lesson of how you can never win comments section debates. It always ends with one person saying "You're not worth my time anymore" or something and storming off to pout.
Yes, teaching self-control should absolutely be the first and main step. But willpower does get worn down (as quite a few psychological studies have shown; I'd recommend some of Steven Pinker's book on the whole topic, they're fairly "easy access"). Just imagine (or even try, if you have the opportunity) some _really_ noisy neighbor who is somewhat hard to argue with starting with some noise at a bad time. You want to remain relaxed and friendly when you ask him to stop. Will it be a good idea to wait a couple of hours of unnerving noise before you go over there, or will it be easier to remain friendly when you do so right away?
Skimpy clothes that emphasise a woman's sexual attractiveness do "fatigue" that self-control in a similar way. In the vast majority of cases (i.e. in most situations as well as for most people who are attracted to her), it obviously isn't "enough" to cause any slips of that self-control, but just as obviously, it very much _is_ "enough" in some other cases.
So yes, "teach him to keep it in his pants" should very much be on everyone's list. But, as pleasing as it may be at times, don't be that noisy neighbor either, show _some_ awareness of the effect you have on your environment.
@@Wolf-ln1ml
Dude, I'm just trying to quote a song I like. I don't need a lecture and a homework assignment.
@@Wolf-ln1ml Shut up, dude.
@@Wolf-ln1ml if men can’t control themselves around women, then they should be locked away from society 😃
@@iaminevitable_ Yeah, why would I expect any kind of nuanced view form anyone here in the YT comments... Come back when you've either understood my comment, or have some actual yinterest in learning what you didn't understand about it. And you won't do that by throwing out ignorant bullshit like this.
15:44 My man really just implied "How could you let me objectify your wife? For shame."
Christian apologist: "This is obviously a satire... but its message is also right and should be listened to a followed" you can't have it both ways, If you do its because you're too much of a coward to admit your beliefs are too abhorrent to be said explicitly.
No it literally is satire. Look up any Christian ideology for 3 seconds and you can see by any and every measure that woman is wildly off base.
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical*
*The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.*
*Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
As a kid I was told not to raise my brows or SMILE too intensely because I'd develop wrinkles and men wouldnt love me.
Gotta love female standards
Smile all you want. Happiness is a desired trait. 😆
I work as a model and this one hits a nerve. When I go to auditions and castings, my family won't bat an eye at my wearing a crop top and shorts.
But if I wear them to go outside they get upset. So like, I can sell my body to a casting director but I can't wear it outside and enjoy clothes for myself. Got it 👌🙃🙃
I can’t tell you how much it turned my stomach when the news anchor said, “there you go.. there you go..” after giving her the jacket..
So we’re just gonna gloss over that little tidbit about the dude “hypothetically” sexualizing female siblings? Oh wait, that’s just a drop in the ocean. My bad.
I definitely heard that, came to the comments to make sure I wasn’t losing it🤣but yeah that was super gross
not defending it, but in envangelical christian circles they use the term "brother" and "sister" to refer to other men and women/boys and girls. All women/girls are your sisters, all men/boys are your brothers. It's a pretty cringe thing, but it's not a literal sibling thing.
@@Blissy1175 I’m a former fundamentalist and, from a spiritual standpoint, I totally get that... but even the way they approached it was pretty gross. Lol
@@Blissy1175 Well, not necessarily biological brothers / relatives... But like there's also a fair bit of incest in the Bible
Didn't that Duggar guy do that?
I have such body disphoria that I've passed out from heat sickness twice now, trying to cover up as much as possible here in Florida. Over the years, I feel only comfortable enough to wear a tank top but I'll always have pants on in 97 degrees. I'm about 35lbs overweight but even when I was smaller, I still covered up.
This was from years of my mother just judging me and being worried what everyone thought of me. I have so many psychological issues that revolve around that, that I've been in therapy for years and I still struggle. It's so damaging to young girls.
I'm in my 30's now and I can't say enough to teach your kids- boy, girl, everyone- that your body is however you want it to be as long as you're healthy and happy. It's yours.
The catholic high school I went to said girls shouldn't wear crop tops because "that's where your womb is, and your fertility is not something to flaunt" we were 15&16 and he would often argue it would be our fault if we got assaulted because of what we were wearing
That's so gross. 🤢
Oh gross gross gross. I'm sorry that anyone ever said that, ever.
wtf, someone check all the hardrives of all the teaching staff there >..
Wear a burka in protest
“Anyone with common sense knows he’s joking. But he’s also telling the truth”
Babe, what?
Trump apologists.
"You shouldn't dress with confidence, I don't want to be responsible for being an objectifying misogynist with no self control"
- Religious fundamentalists
tbh revealing clothing isn't dressing with confidence. Dressing with confidence means not showing yourself off. Knowing you're worth more than the sex appeal of your body.
@@Otome_chan311 Revealing clothing is just as valid a way to dress with confidence as modest clothing. Just because I'm worth more than whatever sex appeal I might theoretically have (I don't) doesn't make being confident in my skin wrong. Also, people are just comfortable in different clothes??? If what's comfy is a bare midriff then that should be the problem of the weirdos with no self control, not my problem.
@@FlameUser64 If you're worth more than whatever sex appeal you might have, why are you dressing in a way to emphasize sex appeal?
@@Otome_chan311 Because being cute or sexy wouldn't make me any less of a person? And because people are welcome to _express themselves_ through their choice of clothing however they like.
A girl dressing "provocatively" may be doing so because it's what's comfortable, because it's what's trendy among her friend group and peer pressure sucks, because it's what she can find in the clothing stores that actually fits, because she's confident in her body, to show off for her SO (we can argue about whether that's a healthy relationship dynamic to have separately from this topic), or even because she genuinely wants people to be sexually interested in her. But in no case does that justify assault, harassment, or r*pe. Because in all of those cases, she's still a human being with human value, and also being sexy should not be treated as diminishing that in any way.
@@FlameUser64 never said anything about justifying rape or sexual assault. but revealing clothing is, imo, as degenerate as indulging in fiction.
Someone explain to me why all women's clothing is tight/short/revealing, so you literally have to buy men's clothes to "cover yourself up" the way these people want, and yet we're having this conversation. As if it's the girls' fault for wearing the clothing that's available to them and that they're encouraged by society to wear to make themselves attractive.
It's a double bind. Heads I win, tails you lose. Either way women suffer.
Exactly. All through high school I really loved my body so I always had to wear guy's clothes because the girl's clothes corporations sell us were too revealing. It was nothing dramatic, I'd just wear jeans and t shirts, but I barely had any girl's clothes because what they're selling us is so sexualized.
And then when you wear the men's clothes, ditch the makeup, and just focus on basic hygiene to keep yourself clean and odor free and shaving, you get accused of not being feminine. Just let me wear comfy clothes in peace dammit!
@@metademetra Just let me have some godamn POCKETS!!
Not only that the cult I was part of always pushed looking more feminine, good luck doing that while wearing men's clothing lol
@Jack Hummell True, I don't blame Christians for this, but I also don't blame "modern" society, I blame the patriarchy.
But I don't think Christians' solution of forcing women to wear dresses and other stifling clothing so they don't "tempt" men is somehow any better. In fact, I think it's a whole lot worse.
Let people wear what they want to wear. Period.
Great video! I am a retired high school teacher, and I cannot tell you the number of times that students were sexualized and harassed by faculty over clothing! The Xtian faculty (most of them) talk openly about their religion and push their "modesty" nonsense onto public school students, and since the admin & Board are also Xtians, the students must simply endure OR reach out to civil rights orgs. After I retired, I was sent a photo in which 2 girls: one White, tall, and thin, and one Black/Latinx, a little shorter, and curvy. Both girls had the same outfit on with about 1 inch of midriff showing, which is against dress code. Guess who got sent out of a 12th grade, IB class for showing skin? You know it! Not only are dress codes misogynistic and used to groom, target, and blame girls and young women, they are also tools of white supremacy. The 2 girls were friends, and agreed to be in the photo to show me that their outfits revealed the exact same amount of skin. In the district where I taught, the dress code was used to harass non-White girls FAR more often than White girls, and this is true across the USA.
And the double standards & mixed messages! OMFG! The dress code prohibits racer back tops, but a staff member had a tattoo she wanted to show off, so she wore racer backs to work and rubbed it in students' faces that "it's a privilege of adulthood"! Another faculty member regularly wears a shirt that covers her ass, but says "smart is sexy" across her ass. And twice a year, there's complete hypocrisy on display when the school day is interrupted for a contest in which a handful of students are given royal treatment: photo shoots, a pageant, a parade, crowning ceremony for "king and queen," and a dance--while wearing evening gowns that break the dress code in every way!
And let's not forget that cheerleaders, those special young women who exist to stroke male egos, are REQUIRED to wear their uniform, which breaks dress code, every game day. Modesty is not required if one's role is to encourage male athletes.
Have you considered doing an episode on the influence (poisoning) of public schools w/ Xtian "modesty" shtick? If you look at the language of public school dress codes, you will notice that most do not focus on student safety or comfort, but body shaming and slut shaming of girls and young women. Most school dress codes groom girls and young women in the same ways that the dude's shitty song did. It's really fucked up how many girls and women are targeted by public school faculty for harassment b/c of dress codes.
*There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical*
*The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.*
*Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
I definitely stuck to the modesty rule. It just made me comfortable. When I realized I was transmasculine and covering up due to body dysphoria, when I came out to my religious parents I suddenly *have* to show cleavage to be "feminine" and honoring that God made me a woman!!! You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Bro, that sucks. I'm sorry they reacted that way.
I had a similar experience when I came out to my dad. All my life, I had always dressed in masculine clothing, and my religious conservative dad never said a word about it. In fact, he seemed happy to have a kid who liked doing the things he liked and didn't obsess over all the girly stuff my sisters did. Then, when he found out I was trans, suddenly he was quoting scriptures from Leviticus about how dressing as the opposite sex was an abomination to God (a verse, I was quick to point out to him, is literally right next to one about not yoking your oxen and cattle together when plowing a field. Are we supposed to follow that command too? Or only the ones that fit our narrative?). He never bothered to tell me for the first 17 years of my life that I was sinning by wearing cargo pants and t shirts. It only became a sin when my pronouns changed. Interesting, that.