@@bartdehrmanyes! I know you’re not a scholar of Mandaeism but the relationship between them and Christianity, and the historical John the Baptist would be a fantastic concept
Though I might not agree on all the points Dr. Ehrman brings about Paul, one that I think hits the spot is Paul's reasoning about Jesus. I've been reading about Paul and early Christianity for a while and to me a good explanation of Paul's revelations and visions is more like him reasoning and philosophizing what Jesus meant to him. Something like a Eureka moment.
Would love to see an episode on how Platonism influenced early christianity! Or one on early church proto-orthodox fathers who criticized heresies like Justin Martyr, Irenaus and Tertullian.
Also agree. When I first heard that the gospels were influenced by Platonism I didn’t get it at all. But after understanding especially the later Plato (who was more Plato rather than documenting what Socrates said as early dialogues) and gospels like John I could see it.
I didn’t know Josh had MS! So sorry to hear. He is one of my favorite UA-cam creators and I have both the Atheists Handbook to the Old Testament books.
Megan, I am so sorry Josh has MS. It's great he is doubg yoga. But in addition, he should learn tai chi - it's great for MS patients. Plus it is so complex and has such a steep learning curve that Josh will love that!
I have MS too. Everyone is different but I find the ADD medication Vyvanse to really help me deal with the chronic fatigue. It isn’t a recognized treatment yet, although similar medications like Provigal are, but I’ve found Vyvanse works the best. I had to fight with my healthcare insurance to get it paid for but it was worth it for me.
Just to point out the obvious, Professor Ehrman does a free podcast, every week. Thanks to both of your for your tireless dedication, and to the support team as well!
I didn’t realize Megan was a Final Fantasy fan. It might be fun someday to hear Bart talk about Christian analogy/reflections in some of the games, like FFT or FFX. Though that might involve making Bart a gamer as well. :)
@@JamesAgans Are you talking from ignorance or hatr3d? Compare the fruits of Paul Vs Muhammed: 1) Jesus: ✅ THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:3. (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Triune-God / Godhead / The Trinity / One God in three persons or whatever you want to call it) is the true God. 2) Jesus: ✅NO payment needed, NO Jesus died for us. Just repent sincerely and the Merciful God (THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER) forgives. (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Salvation comes by the blood of Jesus and his dying on the cross 3) Jesus: ✅ Keep the Laws and the commandments if you want eternal life (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Eternal life comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus 4) Jesus: ✅ Do NOT neglect even the smallest laws (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Those laws are unimportant 5) Jesus: ✅ I was sent ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Jesus came for us all, Jesus came for all of mankind
You do realise that the biblical name mentioned so often for God is Rock don't you,you do realise that Paul was Titus's Pen name, Titus was the Chrestus author of All biblical scripture,, Titus my ONE TRUE son in the faith, there's a clue in that statement.Look up how many times Rock is mentioned instead of God, you're obviously well educated.
@@JamesAgansAnd what that has got to do with muhammad here? How many times you going to show off your islamphobic side? UA-cam should put age-restriction for comments now..cause kids play too much.. your clearly a prime case! So go play away son.. This channel is mainly for mature audience who loves to seek education & knowledge! Go watch your googling-scholars [david-wood or christian-princess or even cartoon-sam] videos.. Cause their 0 scholarship & 0 graduation and 0 phd contents will fits with your childish mindset.. #Goodluck#
That explanation of how Paul took his reasoning of why Jesus was killed to his final conclusion makes perfect sense….to him in the ancient worldview. It never made sense to me as a 20th century woman. This was an excellent podcast . Thanks.
He wouldn’t even believe we’re still here 2000 years later. He would have to rethink his whole interpretation of events if he knew we were here… still waiting for the “return”
There's an aspect to Paul's visions that isn't there to regular people's visions, which is that divine visions are self-agrandizing. They mean that you meant so much to God that God came to visit you. Therefore, you are above the rest of humanity.
I am convinced that Paul's miraculous conversion on the way to Damascus found in the Acts of the Apostles is a fictional account written later by Christian cult members to bolster the Christian argument since Paul makes no mention of it in his letters.
hmmm.. someone other than Paul created the story?, to make believe that a divine intervention transformed Paul to become a true believer of Jesus?, - or maybe, as educated and statesman, with a dream to become wellknown writer and to have the Best Selling book of All times.. he decided to pretend as believer of Jesus and create a fantastic book.. - a novel of Jesus😅😂🎉
@@laurasilverstone9735 not a god's word but frm uneducated writer, or they say wisemen.. at least wise😁, who knows how to make a "Best Selling" story book😅😂😂
to me, somehow, these two respected scholars talking about Fortnite and Final Fantasy seems more like a miracle, than a resurrection account.. "They get us" lol
Yes, please do a video on John The Baptist. What do we know about him? Was he Jesus cousin? What and how do we know what he taught. Do we think after his death Jesus fled across the river for a while? How much influence do we know that John had on Jesus. All this would make for a great episode. Why did John say Jesus was the one, but while in prison ask his followers to go ask Jesus if he is the ' one? ' Or should we look for another? " Which makes no sense at all if he knew he was. Please cover this. Great video Bart.
"Or should we look for another?" The more you delve into the scriptures, the better it gets. However, truth is a bitter pill to swallow. Only the honest at heart have the courage to accept it and acknowledge it. The arrival of 2 distinct luminaries other than John the Baptist was awaited as per the scriptures. Those with knowledge of the scriptures knew that. - Messiah - The Prophet (the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18 V 18-19) 👉 The inquiry about him being Christ? 👉 Are you Elijah? 👉 Are you the Prophet? 1) Elijah 👉 John the Baptist (peace be upon him), NOT an incarnation of Prophet Elijah (peace be upon him) BUT in the spirit and authority of Prophet Elijah (peace be upon him) 2) Christ 👉 Jesus (peace be upon him) 3) The Prophet 👉 The Prophet of Deuteronomy 18 V 18-19 Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
The foretelling through Moses connects with the foretelling through Jesus: John 16:13 But when *he* , the Spirit of truth, comes, *he* will guide you into 🚩 ALL the truth. 👉 *He* will not speak on *his* own; *he* will speak only what *he* hears 👈 Deuteronomy 18:18 “I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses), and will put my words in *his* mouth; and 👉 *he* shall speak unto them all that I shall command *him* 👈.” Deuteronomy 18:19 we read: “And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto 👉 my words which *he* shall speak in my name 👈 , I will require [it] of him.”
@@Gladicuss Unfortunately, you have no clu3 about the very scriptures which you claim to have researched. Fa-ls-e teachers in the footsteps of Paul of the Bible the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about have done a fantastic job on you. Your scriptures command you to reason but you're unwillingly to reason. To reason is of such importance. You reason and you arrive at the truth and when you accept it however bitter it may be, God forgives your sins. “Come now, let us *reason* together, says the LORD: 🚩 though your sins are like scarlet, 👉 ✅ *they shall be as white as snow* 👈 ; 🚩 though they are red like crimson, 👉 ✅ *they shall become like wool* 👈 Isaiah 1:18 As I had said from the start: Truth is a bitter pill to swallow. Only the honest at heart have the courage to accept it and acknowledge it.
Would love to hear Bart talk about the preaching and practice of Jesus of the Bible still in practice by a nation - a people. Of course that could mean loss of the Western audience and money and fame. Not that easy to let go of. 1) Jesus: ✅ THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:3. (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Triune-God / Godhead / The Trinity / One God in three persons or whatever you want to call it) is the true God. 2) Jesus: ✅NO payment needed, NO Jesus died for us. Just repent sincerely and the Merciful God (THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER) forgives. (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Salvation comes by the blood of Jesus and his dying on the cross 3) Jesus: ✅ Keep the Laws and the commandments if you want eternal life (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Eternal life comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus 4) Jesus: ✅ Do NOT neglect even the smallest laws (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Those laws are unimportant 5) Jesus: ✅ I was sent ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel (The Muslim agrees with Jesus) Christians: ❌ NO. Jesus came for us all, Jesus came for all of mankind
Do YOU realize that the ONLY people on the face of the earth who practice and uphold and preach and defend the doctrine and honor of Jesus OF THE BIBLE are the Muslim????? It's an amazing situation really. On each and every fundamental doctrine, Christianity (overwhelming) is AGAINST Jesus of their very own scriptures BUT the Muslim is calling the Christians to go by what Jesus precticed and preached. 🤗 👉 Jesus gave the Trinity-DESTROYING testimony that THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD but the Christians (overwhelming) testify that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (The Trinity) is the true God. 👉 John 4:21-22 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, *WORSHIP THE FATHER* . Ye worship ye know not what: *WE* know what *WE WORSHIP* : for salvation is of the Jews. Have another look: *WE WORSHIP* (The J-E-W na-ti-on INCLUDING ME - Jesus) 👉 “And this is life eternal, that they might know *YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD* , and Jesus Christ, whom *YOU* have sent.” John 17:3 👉 John 20:17: “Jesus saith unto her, ...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.” Have another look! ".... *TO MY GOD and YOUR GOD* " ME and YOU 👉 *WE* *WE WORSHIP* THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER who is THE GOD OF ME (Jesus) and YOU 👉 *OUR GOD* 👉 And Jesus answered him, THE FIRST OF ALL the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord *OUR GOD* is one Lord Mark 12:29 👉 Jesus teaches: “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and *HIM ONLY* shalt thou serve” Luke 4:8. Notice the words: “HIM ONLY.” Jesus did not say “US only,” or “Him and I only.” How could he possibly i it more clear than that? Jesus told to worship ONLY THE FATHER - who is THE GOD of Jesus too. 👉 NEVER preached about Original Sin 👉 NEVER preached that for salvation, people needed to believe that Jesus died (will die) for their sins 👉 NEVER preached that the wages of sins is death 👉 PREACHED that for the forgiveness - NO payment needed, NO sacrifice of Jesus, NO Jesus paid for us 👉 PREACHED that just turn away in sincere repentance and the Merciful God forgives 👉 PREACHED adherence to the comprehensive Law Code as the path to salvation 👉 PREACHED that for certain transgression (like mur-der) on the Law Code, CAPITAL punishment - PUTTING the transgressors to DE ATH - needed to be administered 👉 PREACHED that his followers SHALL IN NO WAY ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN if they do not keep the comprehensive Law Code even better and moreso than the Scribes and the Pharisees 👉 DID NOT eat p.i.g 👉 FASTED and PREACHED FASTING 👉 Greeted with the phrase "peace be with you" 👉 Jesus was CIRCUMCISED. AN EVERLASTING COVENANT IN FLESH for the believers till the end of times 👉 PREACHED that his followers follow the comprehensive Law Code which the Scribes and the Pharisees tell people to follow - that includes oblution / washing of the hands and feet before worship or entering a place of worship Of course the term the Father in the Jewish context. NOT that God has a Son.
The fruits of Paul of the Bible the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about: On each and every fundamental doctrine, the Christian faith makes a H.E.R.E.T.I.C of Jesus of the Bible. Poor Christians, in their ignorance, professing to love and honor Jesus, actually h-e-a-p the greatest I-N-S-U-L-T-S on Jesus of the Bible. The Bible testifies.
Bart is seriously the best guy. Always so happy, jovial and humorous. Far cry from what I thought an agnostic/atheist was back in the day. Damn, he’s funny, smart and likable!!! He’s the sugar to the medicine going down. Wow, it’d be great to talk to him in person, no matter the subject.
Most/many translations of Gal 1:16 render "en emoi' (transliterated Greek) as "in me" i.e. Paul says God revealed his son "in me". Bart says "to me" I assume because we can understand what "to me" means, something that came thru the sense of vision or touch or hearing, whereas we are not sure what "in me" means here. What did Paul mean? "In my head" perhaps, like "I dreamed it", or it was an Eureka moment you get after thinking about something - now I get it!
It's long been my belief that Paul's motivations never changed, just his methods. Where before he tried to bring down Christianity by persecuting Christians, later he tried to do so by feigning conversion so he could corrupt the message itself.
But that makes no sense. Unless you just see him as a demonic figure opposing the true Christianity. As a Jew, he persecuted Christians for teaching blasphemous ideas about the Messiah. Why would he try to spread different blasphemous ideas?
Paul, like all religious founders was a very charismatic oddball and a superb salesman. Salesmen are extraordinary storytellers but they're not too consistent with their stories. Paul told his audiences, whatever he thought would work.
Paul was commissioned by Christ to be the Apostle to the Gentiles. Not just throw whatever he felt like saying to them. Paul was given an understanding of the Fellowship of the Mystery which was exclusively given to Him by Holy Spirit. Accdg to the Scripture
1 Corinthians ch 9 . 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. Lol he doesn't deny it
It'd be great to hear a show about the Romano-Jewish wars that were taking place during the writing of the New Testament, and its impact on the writing.
Years ago, I had the privilege of engaging in a thought-provoking discussion about the Bible with an elderly Jewish Laviet. During our conversation, we delved into the conversion of Paul and contemplated his intentions. It was believed that Paul, in his relentless pursuit to eradicate Christianity, resorted to extreme measures such as executing the followers of Peter. However, despite his best efforts, Paul encountered difficulties in achieving his objective. To overcome this obstacle, he resorted to deceit by feigning a divine revelation. By doing so, he managed to infiltrate the community of new believers, all in pursuit of his hidden agenda. To support this argument, the wise Laviet proposed the assumption that upon entering, Paul cunningly usurped the position of the esteemed apostle Peter.
"For the first forty years we only have one person's (ie Paul's) writings..." Actually none of Paul's letters are reliably dated. So why insist on an early date? How do you know that they didn't come after AD70 like all the other Christian literature?
When I was a child, our church of Christ minister taught Greek at a seminary. He pointed out that Paul was told to "arise and be baptized". In other words Paul was baptized standing up. In the churches of Christ baptism is considered salvific. What exactly did the early church believe about baptism? Was it considered essential for salvation or was it like the Baptists believe, an ordinance? On the other side of the coin, The late Dr. Michael Brown taught New Testament at Hebrew Union College. I was told by him and many other academics that the Book of Acts is historical fiction.
Hebrew Bible is NOT the original bible, Septuagint was the original bible,God's family were Greeks, Israelites were Greek, Israel was Jacobs name not a place, Titus was the Chrestus author of All biblical scripture, Sancus, Saints,Sabines that can be dated to at least 25000BC,why you always have the Greek translation, ORIGINAL language obviously, Hebrew Masoretic texts are 1100AD, completely different to the original Septuagint, Yahweh Satan added to the original Septuagint, Solomon's temple built by Hiram Abiff, Satan himself,why Titus crucified them all.
When I hear that there were several differing accounts of Paul's encounter with Jesus, I am inclined to recall that liars have a hard time keeping their story straight!
With the mention from Megan about Horizon Zero Dawn, this is now become my most favourite podcast of all time. If there's an episode outlining the messianic narratives that would come from the life of Alloy, I will be here for it!
For some reason the ad about Paul around minute 42 had audio issues. Megan's voice alone came out of the left ear and the music alone came out of the right ear.
My take is Paul being a committed Pharisee and opponent of the Sect of the Way, committing crimes against humanity, even resulting in their death, began experiencing PTSD similar to the majority of solders who cause the death of others by their actions. This is the root of his mental turmoil. His baptism helps to assuage his conscious. He spends the rest of life philosophically and actively solving his religious predicament creating a new variety of Gentile salvation.
I would like to see a discussion of how Jesus and the early Christians believed the apocalypse was imminent. When I first carefully read the New Testament this is something that struck me right away and that had never been talked about in Catholic catechism classes, how several times in different gospels Jesus says things like “some of you will still be living when I return”
You have to keep in mind that these things were written thirty to sixty years after his death, so that window was already closing very rapidly. By the time these texts were compiled into the bible it was an obvious lie. That alone tells you that Christianity is based on lies. Does it matter? As you can see in case of Trump people don't care. They will buy the lie just fine as long as it fits their needs.
How did we get from Biblical Judaism, keeping Torah, temple sacrifice, observing the festivals, to "believe in Jesus for salvation?" And the messiah as savior and king of the universe?
@@allencampbell8308 You won't find the following on any Christian / Agnostic platforms: The true Messiah could NEVER EVER be cr-ucif-ied and put through such hu-mil-iat10n. A-s per prophecy from the OT. No wonder. ✅ Mark 14:36: 👉 Jesus PRAYS to God, IN TRUST, that *the Cup is TAKEN AWAY from him* Psalm 20:6 Now know I that the Lord *SA-VE-TH* his *ME:SS:IAH* ; He 👉 *ANS-WE-RE-TH* 👈 him from the 👉 HE-AVE-NS 👈 of His holiness, with the ✅ *SA:VI:NG ST-RE-NG-TH* of His right hand. ************ *Jesus never got c-r-u-c-i-f-i-e-d* . Saul aka Paul the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about preached a literally c-r-u-c-i-f-i-e-d Messiah which according to the Hebrew scriptures is a FA_LSE messiah exp0sed by God. Paul achieved what he set out to do. He made sure that the J3-w nation never accepts Jesus as Messiah.
I also love waking up to something I'm looking forward to, but I also don't like to leave work when it's dark, and I do have to be on for 9 hours, so I typically wake up at 4, do my stuff, and go to the gym at 6 so that I'm at work by 7h30. Pretty good way to live.
Paul wrote autobiographically in Philippians that he was of the tribe of Benjamin, plus a Pharisee, who as a group believed in the resurrection at the coming Kingdom of God, a hallmark of Jewish apocalyptic thinking.
I’m also sorry to hear about the MS. Wishing you both strength and positivity for the journey. Very happy to hear that you love Final Fantasy. I grew up on it. Final Fantasy 6 is probably my favorite.
Which new testament book is first to be written? Some says "Epistle to the Galatians" while other says "gospels of mark" and some others says "1 Thessalonians". I try to search google but the answer just keep changing between those 3
Please talk about the Pharasees and Sadducees for us, no body rver talks about them and what was happening to them at that time that lead them to the decision to crush Jesuses movement.
I have an off topic question. Can you recommend a good book about angel mythology? I'm trying to explain the angels in Hazbin Hotel to my wife and I realize I don't know as much as I want
In some sense, how could Paul know that the vision he saw was Jesus, because he had never met Jesus before. And in that time, no picture, photo, or anything that Paul himself can justify that he saw a vision of Christ.
IMO Paul never converted to the OG "by Jews, for Jews" version of Christianity. Rather he saw an opportunity to take a dying cult and make it mainstream with a few tweaks to improve marketability to the masses. He is arguably at least as important as Jesus, along with the destruction of the Temple for the Gospels, to the version of Christianity we have today.
A problem with Dr. Ehrman's explanation for Paul's "vision" of Jesus is that Paul was not a follower of Jesus, so he had no emotional connection to Jesus. People who tend to have visions of the dead usually see someone they loved and cared about. Psychologically, it's a method for us to cope with the loss of that loved one. Paul was not even a Christian at the time, so he wouldn't have had a religious or spiritual connection that would induce the vision experience, as we see in people who have vision of Mary. And finally, only Paul claims to have heard the voice. The others with him heard a noise but didn't hear what was said, so I don't know if this would fit the criteria for a "group hallucination."
off off-topic and maybe superficial: but I love Mega's eyeglass frame and I would like to give them to my wife as a B-Day present. Can Megan or something else please let me know the name of those eyeglass frames? :)
please fix bart's audio. it is never nearly as loud as the interviewer making it very hard to listen to the videos. this has been an ongoing problem for a long time. please please try harder to fix it. thank you
I wonder if Paul was feeling growing remorse over his treatment of Christians, and like the protagonist in “The Tell-Tale Heart”, allowed his guilty conscience to conjure up a mystical vision he then interpreted as Jesus.
Saul aka Paul the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about preached a literally cru-c-ifie-d Messiah which according to the Hebrew scriptures is a FA_LSE messiah exp0sed by God. Paul achieved with h1s Gospel from the DE_V-I-L aka "My Gospel" what he could never achieve by physically k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus. Paul k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus would have stopped sooner or later by the inevitable d3ath of Paul. However, Paul made sure that his work continues even to this day. Paul went after the spiritual k1ll1ng of his followers. He made sure that the coming generations of the J3ws never accept Jesus as the Messiah. There is already evidence of ANOTHER GOSPEL AND ANOTHER JESUS which is contrary to Paul's "MY Gospel" and people are QUICKLY aba-nd-oning the Paul's ab_o-mi-nat-ion from the DE_V-I-L 👉 "My Gospel". Galatians 1:6 I am astonished that you are SO QUICKLY DESERTING the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ AND ARE TURNING TO A DIFFERENT GOSPEL-- "....... ANOTHER GOSPEL -" Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, WHO hath be-wit-che-d you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [You foolish Galatians! WHO has b-e-wit-che-d you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.] It's Paul who is upset and desperately wants to PORTRAY that Jesus Christ was crucified. It was Paul who had PORTRAYED that Jesus Christ was actually crucified. It's Paul who invented and promoted the false Gospel - the fiction called Jesus' Crucifixion. It's Paul who TRIC-KED people into believing that Jesus actually got Crucified.
Saul aka Paul the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about preached a literally cru-c-ifie-d Messiah which according to the Hebrew scriptures is a FA_LSE messiah exp0sed by God. Paul achieved with h1s Gospel from the DE_V-I-L aka "My Gospel" what he could never achieve by physically k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus. Paul k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus would have stopped sooner or later by the inevitable d3ath of Paul. However, Paul made sure that his work continues even to this day. Paul went after the spiritual k1ll1ng of his followers. He made sure that the J3ws as a nation never accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Yes, I've also thought of this explanation. Paul feeling remorse for what he has done (some have him involved in stoning st. Stephen) explains his vision and his fanatical devotion to rhe Christian cause thereafter, despite not knowing Jesus personally.
@@J.B.Ram1 Devotion or d3c3pt10n? Remorse or sa-bo-ta-ge? Paul's work continues to date. By the fruits ye shall know them. No wonder Jesus foretold and wa-rn-ed. 1) Jesus: ✅ THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:3. Christians: ❌ NO. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Triune-God / Godhead / The Trinity / One God in three persons or whatever you want to call it) is the true God. 2) Jesus: ✅NO payment needed, NO Jesus died for us. Just repent sincerely and the Merciful God (THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER) forgives. Christians: ❌ NO. Salvation comes by the blood of Jesus and his dying on the cross 3) Jesus: ✅ Keep the Laws and the commandments if you want eternal life Christians: ❌ NO. Eternal life comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus 4) Jesus: ✅ Do NOT neglect even the smallest laws Christians: ❌ NO. Those laws are unimportant 5) Jesus: ✅ I was sent ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel Christians: ❌ NO. Jesus came for us all, Jesus came for all of mankind Thanks to Paul of the Bible the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng.
@@J.B.Ram1 Devotion or d3c3pt10n? Remorse or sa-bo-ta-ge? Jesus w-ar-ne-d about the f3r0c10us w0lv3s in she-ep's clo-thi-ng. Also gave the standard to evaluate: By the fruits ye shall know them
If Paul eventually came to the conclusion that keeping the law wouldn’t make you right with god and that the sacrifice of Jesus was the atonement that made humanity right with god, then where did the leap to “you have to BELIEVE in that sacrifice to be saved” come from? I’m not connecting those dots. Why not instead, “the death of Jesus atoned for sins and therefore it’s done, that is all, we’re good”? Why is belief necessary if the atonement was complete and final? Someone please explain.
In addition to "vanilla" illusion (changing what's there)/hallucination (inventing something there), there are also the mnemonic versions, in which you remember seeing someone, but at the time you didn't report seeing them or act like they were there.
Oh, didn't think Megan could be even more adorable 😱 But there she is, going through a massive adventure videogame. I'm myself am an academic in literature, and also I'm going through Horizon Forbidden West. I'm not enjoying the plot line as much, but the combat and the visual aesthetic of the world are ever enjoyable.
I think people before Paul had put together that chain of reasoning accursed - > beloved - > sacrifice. There were already such believers around, whom Paul was persecuting. Then, his own experience confirmed the chain.
The Pauline Epistles conforms to a Gnostic or Gnostic-like Cosmic Christ. And as the Pauline Epistles is the only evidence we have of the earliest Christians, we have no evidence that the original belief was in a Cosmic Christ. So, why do so many insist of taking the Gospels written a generation later and anachronistically project them back onto the original Christians?
What was most fortuitous, IMO, was the utter destruction of the Temple and the end of ritual sacrifice as an essential part of Judaism. Ehrman's _ratio_ always feeds my _fides_ .
Maybe there's just MORE to reality than what we see? ... I suspect this is so ... But, I don't think it's likely that people are having "hallucinations" ... Of course, we can't yet know for sure... I just think it's less likely that folks are having hallucinations ... Btw ... I'm a retired industrial engineer so, I tend to like science and logic ... Even so..., the universe and "existence" is so full of mystery and incredible discoveries so, I try to keep an open mind even when something seems "incredible" ...
I notice a lot of engineers believe in God. Not necessarily biologists or physicists, etc. Perhaps because they view things through their lense? The universe must need a big engineer who made it all?
@@joecheffo5942 maybe, idk... As to what that God/engineer/Creator MIGHT look like?.......... Lol....... Well, I have NO idea about that BUT, it may be multiple engineers perhaps?... I guess it just seems to me like it takes more faith to believe that what we have in our universe happened in a random sort of way... For me it seems MORE likely that there was input from some intelligent designers along the way but, having said that, saying what they might look like or who or what they could be? ..., well..., I've got NO idea ...lol
I had 'widow hallucinations' of my cat after he died. Not visual, but frequent auditory (he had long claws, so they clicked when he walked) and somatic (I could feel him jumping up in bed with me). Maybe he's also been resurrected. 50:43 What is your name? What is your quest? What's the average air speed of an unladen swallow?
Maybe there's just MORE to reality than what we see? ... I suspect this is so ... But, I don't think it's likely that people are having "hallucinations" ... Of course, we can't yet know for sure... I just think😂 it's less likely that folks are having hallucinations ... Btw ... I'm a retired industrial engineer so, I tend to like science and logic ... Even so..., the universe and "existence" is so full of mystery and incredible discoveries so, I try to keep an open mind even when something seems "incredible" ...
Same with my dog, full with visual hallucinations. I kept seeing him from the corner of my eyes for weeks at his usual resting spots. 15 years of daily habit breaks hard.
Bart mentioned several times that Paul believed Jesus to be the Messiah. Does this mean that he also regarded Jesus as being God himself? And if so, for Paul is Jesus the Jewish God incarnate?
The full on tactile, vision and sound including bereavement hallucinations are quite rare though, happening a little more often than to 2% of people. The most common group of people who have bereavement hallucinations are people in their 30s. There it is possible that over 35% of them experience the presence of a deceased loved one (only the presence that is, no sound, no touch, no vision). But yes, the number is very high indeed, and even if it is just experiencing the presence of somebody, this can turn into "they literally met Jesus after his death" rather quickly.
Would love to see an episode exploring the historical figure of John the Baptist.
Great idea!
Check out James D Tabor for this one!
@@bartdehrman Would you consider bringing Joel Marcus into this discussion? I would also love to hear your views on the historical JBap.
@@bartdehrmanyes! I know you’re not a scholar of Mandaeism but the relationship between them and Christianity, and the historical John the Baptist would be a fantastic concept
Would love to see a deep dive into the parables.
Though I might not agree on all the points Dr. Ehrman brings about Paul, one that I think hits the spot is Paul's reasoning about Jesus. I've been reading about Paul and early Christianity for a while and to me a good explanation of Paul's revelations and visions is more like him reasoning and philosophizing what Jesus meant to him. Something like a Eureka moment.
Would love to see an episode on how Platonism influenced early christianity! Or one on early church proto-orthodox fathers who criticized heresies like Justin Martyr, Irenaus and Tertullian.
100%
Agreed. I wonder more and more just how Hellenized and platonic Christianity was from the early (Paul) days.
Also agree. When I first heard that the gospels were influenced by Platonism I didn’t get it at all. But after understanding especially the later Plato (who was more Plato rather than documenting what Socrates said as early dialogues) and gospels like John I could see it.
I didn’t know Josh had MS! So sorry to hear. He is one of my favorite UA-cam creators and I have both the Atheists Handbook to the Old Testament books.
Sad to hear. 😢
@@trilithon108 ms?
@@olivur_1459 MS or multiple sclerosis is a disease in which the immune system eats away at the protective covering of nerves.
@@PraeytoGod Saturated fats can make symptoms worse
Megan, I am so sorry Josh has MS. It's great he is doubg yoga. But in addition, he should learn tai chi - it's great for MS patients. Plus it is so complex and has such a steep learning curve that Josh will love that!
Yes same. I'm a big fan of Joshy. All the best to the Bowen / Lewis family.
I have MS too. Everyone is different but I find the ADD medication Vyvanse to really help me deal with the chronic fatigue. It isn’t a recognized treatment yet, although similar medications like Provigal are, but I’ve found Vyvanse works the best. I had to fight with my healthcare insurance to get it paid for but it was worth it for me.
Just to point out the obvious, Professor Ehrman does a free podcast, every week. Thanks to both of your for your tireless dedication, and to the support team as well!
I didn’t realize Megan was a Final Fantasy fan. It might be fun someday to hear Bart talk about Christian analogy/reflections in some of the games, like FFT or FFX. Though that might involve making Bart a gamer as well. :)
.. #iluvit! - coz Jesus story really a fantasy, science fiction, combined with mystery and.. with paranormal😅😂🎉
Thank you Dr Erham, thank you Megan, excellent discussion. I wish Dr Bowen the best with his health issues
Thank you both! One of the high points of the week for me. Especially Dr. Ehrman's sense of humor: "Paul got stoned... With Rocks!" 🤣
I'm pretty sure he got stoned with mushrooms too, just like Mohammad. Paul & Mohammad, the original Doobie Brothers!
@@JamesAgans
Are you talking from ignorance or hatr3d?
Compare the fruits of Paul Vs Muhammed:
1)
Jesus: ✅ THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:3.
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Triune-God / Godhead / The Trinity / One God in three persons or whatever you want to call it) is the true God.
2)
Jesus: ✅NO payment needed, NO Jesus died for us. Just repent sincerely and the Merciful God (THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER) forgives.
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Salvation comes by the blood of Jesus and his dying on the cross
3)
Jesus: ✅ Keep the Laws and the commandments if you want eternal life
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Eternal life comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus
4)
Jesus: ✅ Do NOT neglect even the smallest laws
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Those laws are unimportant
5)
Jesus: ✅ I was sent ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Jesus came for us all, Jesus came for all of mankind
You do realise that the biblical name mentioned so often for God is Rock don't you,you do realise that Paul was Titus's Pen name, Titus was the Chrestus author of All biblical scripture,, Titus my ONE TRUE son in the faith, there's a clue in that statement.Look up how many times Rock is mentioned instead of God, you're obviously well educated.
@@JamesAgansAnd what that has got to do with muhammad here?
How many times you going to show off your islamphobic side?
UA-cam should put age-restriction for comments now..cause kids play too much.. your clearly a prime case!
So go play away son..
This channel is mainly for mature audience who loves to seek education & knowledge!
Go watch your googling-scholars [david-wood or christian-princess or even cartoon-sam] videos..
Cause their 0 scholarship & 0 graduation and 0 phd contents will fits with your childish mindset.. #Goodluck#
@@tyronecox5976 Hmm! So seminarians actually attend "School of Rock" 🎸
Dr. Ehrman.....you are the true Renaissance man. Sorry about Dr. Josh, love his teaching
That explanation of how Paul took his reasoning of why Jesus was killed to his final conclusion makes perfect sense….to him in the ancient worldview. It never made sense to me as a 20th century woman. This was an excellent podcast . Thanks.
Bart does more by 11:00 am than I do all week
But why is circumcision the norm in our society?
❤
I heard him say before that he reads Greek first thing in the morning (while drinking his coffee) because it brings him joy. What a guy.
I think Bart succinctly explained the logic behind Paul's substitutionary atonement explanation for Jesus' death
What do we think Paul would say about this Christian empire he started? I don’t think he would even recognize modern religion.
esp the tremendous wealth it generates..amen
He wouldn’t even believe we’re still here 2000 years later. He would have to rethink his whole interpretation of events if he knew we were here… still waiting for the “return”
I think he'd be impressed
@@NS-ie2ldhe probably be pissed 😂 an become an orthodox jew
@@NS-ie2ldthats why he so worried about those brothers in Christ who have fallen asleep
There's an aspect to Paul's visions that isn't there to regular people's visions, which is that divine visions are self-agrandizing. They mean that you meant so much to God that God came to visit you. Therefore, you are above the rest of humanity.
I am convinced that Paul's miraculous conversion on the way to Damascus found in the Acts of the Apostles is a fictional account written later by Christian cult members to bolster the Christian argument since Paul makes no mention of it in his letters.
He would have already explained this 'face to face' .....
hmmm.. someone other than Paul created the story?, to make believe that a divine intervention transformed Paul to become a true believer of Jesus?, - or maybe, as educated and statesman, with a dream to become wellknown writer and to have the Best Selling book of All times.. he decided to pretend as believer of Jesus and create a fantastic book.. - a novel of Jesus😅😂🎉
Paul's conversion is NOT fiction, it is the truth because it is in God's Word and God's Word doesn't return void
@@laurasilverstone9735 not a god's word but frm uneducated writer, or they say wisemen.. at least wise😁, who knows how to make a "Best Selling" story book😅😂😂
@@jerrydean5233 THE BIBLE IS GODS WORD WRITTEN UNDER INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY GHOST, GOD USED WHO HE USED TO WRITE THE BIBLE
"How do you relax?" I listen to an online bible scholar series before I sleep lmao. I love your videos guys. Megan, are you a Dark Souls fan?
to me, somehow, these two respected scholars talking about Fortnite and Final Fantasy seems more like a miracle, than a resurrection account..
"They get us" lol
This is awesome presentation Bart has great insight Love the podcast. Megan sorry to hear about Josh had MS.
Yes, please do a video on John The Baptist. What do we know about him? Was he Jesus cousin? What and how do we know what he taught. Do we think after his death Jesus fled across the river for a while? How much influence do we know that John had on Jesus. All this would make for a great episode. Why did John say Jesus was the one, but while in prison ask his followers to go ask Jesus if he is the ' one? ' Or should we look for another? " Which makes no sense at all if he knew he was. Please cover this. Great video Bart.
"Or should we look for another?"
The more you delve into the scriptures, the better it gets. However, truth is a bitter pill to swallow. Only the honest at heart have the courage to accept it and acknowledge it.
The arrival of 2 distinct luminaries other than John the Baptist was awaited as per the scriptures. Those with knowledge of the scriptures knew that.
- Messiah
- The Prophet (the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18 V 18-19)
👉 The inquiry about him being Christ?
👉 Are you Elijah?
👉 Are you the Prophet?
1) Elijah 👉 John the Baptist (peace be upon him), NOT an incarnation of Prophet Elijah (peace be upon him) BUT in the spirit and authority of Prophet Elijah (peace be upon him)
2) Christ 👉 Jesus (peace be upon him)
3) The Prophet 👉 The Prophet of Deuteronomy 18 V 18-19 Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
@@Truth-a_hard_pill The more
Delve? I've done my research. But thanks!
The foretelling through Moses connects with the foretelling through Jesus:
John 16:13
But when *he* , the Spirit of truth, comes, *he* will guide you into 🚩 ALL the truth. 👉 *He* will not speak on *his* own; *he* will speak only what *he* hears 👈
Deuteronomy 18:18 “I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their
brethren, like unto thee (Moses), and will put my words in *his* mouth; and 👉 *he* shall speak unto them all that I shall command *him* 👈.”
Deuteronomy 18:19 we read: “And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto 👉 my words which *he* shall speak in my name 👈 , I will require [it] of him.”
@@Gladicuss
You claim that you have done the research but you're unable to refute.
@@Gladicuss
Unfortunately, you have no clu3 about the very scriptures which you claim to have researched. Fa-ls-e teachers in the footsteps of Paul of the Bible the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about have done a fantastic job on you.
Your scriptures command you to reason but you're unwillingly to reason.
To reason is of such importance. You reason and you arrive at the truth and when you accept it however bitter it may be, God forgives your sins.
“Come now, let us *reason* together, says the LORD: 🚩 though your sins are like scarlet, 👉 ✅ *they shall be as white as snow* 👈 ; 🚩 though they are red like crimson,
👉 ✅ *they shall become like wool* 👈 Isaiah 1:18
As I had said from the start: Truth is a bitter pill to swallow. Only the honest at heart have the courage to accept it and acknowledge it.
Would love to hear Bart talk more about the ethics of Jesus! Especially the idea of the Good Samaritan
Would love to hear Bart talk about the preaching and practice of Jesus of the Bible still in practice by a nation - a people. Of course that could mean loss of the Western audience and money and fame. Not that easy to let go of.
1)
Jesus: ✅ THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:3.
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Triune-God / Godhead / The Trinity / One God in three persons or whatever you want to call it) is the true God.
2)
Jesus: ✅NO payment needed, NO Jesus died for us. Just repent sincerely and the Merciful God (THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER) forgives.
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Salvation comes by the blood of Jesus and his dying on the cross
3)
Jesus: ✅ Keep the Laws and the commandments if you want eternal life
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Eternal life comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus
4)
Jesus: ✅ Do NOT neglect even the smallest laws
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Those laws are unimportant
5)
Jesus: ✅ I was sent ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel
(The Muslim agrees with Jesus)
Christians: ❌ NO. Jesus came for us all, Jesus came for all of mankind
Do YOU realize that the ONLY people on the face of the earth who practice and uphold and preach and defend the doctrine and honor of Jesus OF THE BIBLE are the Muslim?????
It's an amazing situation really. On each and every fundamental doctrine, Christianity (overwhelming) is AGAINST Jesus of their very own scriptures BUT the Muslim is calling the Christians to go by what Jesus precticed and preached. 🤗
👉 Jesus gave the Trinity-DESTROYING testimony that THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD but the Christians (overwhelming) testify that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (The Trinity) is the true God.
👉 John 4:21-22
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, *WORSHIP THE FATHER* .
Ye worship ye know not what: *WE* know what *WE WORSHIP* : for salvation is of the Jews.
Have another look:
*WE WORSHIP*
(The J-E-W na-ti-on INCLUDING ME - Jesus)
👉 “And this is life eternal, that they might know *YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD* , and Jesus Christ, whom *YOU* have sent.”
John 17:3
👉 John 20:17: “Jesus saith unto her, ...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.”
Have another look!
".... *TO MY GOD and YOUR GOD* "
ME and YOU 👉 *WE*
*WE WORSHIP*
THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER who is THE GOD OF ME (Jesus) and YOU 👉 *OUR GOD*
👉 And Jesus answered him, THE FIRST OF ALL the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord *OUR GOD* is one Lord
Mark 12:29
👉 Jesus teaches: “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and *HIM ONLY* shalt thou serve” Luke 4:8. Notice the words: “HIM ONLY.” Jesus did not say “US only,” or “Him and I only.” How could he possibly i it more clear than that? Jesus told to worship ONLY THE FATHER - who is THE GOD of Jesus too.
👉 NEVER preached about Original Sin
👉 NEVER preached that for salvation, people needed to believe that Jesus died (will die) for their sins
👉 NEVER preached that the wages of sins is death
👉 PREACHED that for the forgiveness - NO payment needed, NO sacrifice of Jesus, NO Jesus paid for us
👉 PREACHED that just turn away in sincere repentance and the Merciful God forgives
👉 PREACHED adherence to the comprehensive Law Code as the path to salvation
👉 PREACHED that for certain transgression (like mur-der) on the Law Code, CAPITAL punishment - PUTTING the transgressors to DE ATH - needed to be administered
👉 PREACHED that his followers SHALL IN NO WAY ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN if they do not keep the comprehensive Law Code even better and moreso than the Scribes and the Pharisees
👉 DID NOT eat p.i.g
👉 FASTED and PREACHED FASTING
👉 Greeted with the phrase "peace be with you"
👉 Jesus was CIRCUMCISED. AN EVERLASTING COVENANT IN FLESH for the believers till the end of times
👉 PREACHED that his followers follow the comprehensive Law Code which the Scribes and the Pharisees tell people to follow - that includes oblution / washing of the hands and feet before worship or entering a place of worship
Of course the term the Father in the Jewish context. NOT that God has a Son.
The fruits of Paul of the Bible the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about:
On each and every fundamental doctrine, the Christian faith makes a H.E.R.E.T.I.C of Jesus of the Bible. Poor Christians, in their ignorance, professing to love and honor Jesus, actually h-e-a-p the greatest I-N-S-U-L-T-S on Jesus of the Bible. The Bible testifies.
Bart is seriously the best guy. Always so happy, jovial and humorous. Far cry from what I thought an agnostic/atheist was back in the day. Damn, he’s funny, smart and likable!!! He’s the sugar to the medicine going down. Wow, it’d be great to talk to him in person, no matter the subject.
What made you think that non-religious people would be down in the dumps ?
@@SisypheanRoller not really sure. I guess when I was young I may have equated atheism with a certain hard heartedness.
@@tracyblack4708 I see. Thank you for the honest answer.
Most/many translations of Gal 1:16 render "en emoi' (transliterated Greek) as "in me" i.e. Paul says God revealed his son "in me". Bart says "to me" I assume because we can understand what "to me" means, something that came thru the sense of vision or touch or hearing, whereas we are not sure what "in me" means here. What did Paul mean? "In my head" perhaps, like "I dreamed it", or it was an Eureka moment you get after thinking about something - now I get it!
Always learn something with these episodes. Thanks Bart, Megan, et al. These are much appreciated.
It's long been my belief that Paul's motivations never changed, just his methods. Where before he tried to bring down Christianity by persecuting Christians, later he tried to do so by feigning conversion so he could corrupt the message itself.
To fold it into Roman sensibilities better perhaps
But that makes no sense. Unless you just see him as a demonic figure opposing the true Christianity.
As a Jew, he persecuted Christians for teaching blasphemous ideas about the Messiah. Why would he try to spread different blasphemous ideas?
Paul, like all religious founders was a very charismatic oddball and a superb salesman.
Salesmen are extraordinary storytellers but they're not too consistent with their stories. Paul told his audiences, whatever he thought would work.
Paul was commissioned by Christ to be the Apostle to the Gentiles. Not just throw whatever he felt like saying to them. Paul was given an understanding of the Fellowship of the Mystery which was exclusively given to Him by Holy Spirit.
Accdg to the Scripture
@@PinoyMusicRevolutionAgain we can't really trust those accounts because they aren't consistent with each other.
1 Corinthians ch 9 . 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. Lol he doesn't deny it
@@PinoyMusicRevolution So was everyone who says they received a commission from God being truthful and accurate? How about Muhammed then?
@@adonai136 Correct when challenged by James he became Jewish again, but with Gentiles he told them to disregard the law.
I wish my fundamentalist family would watch the podcast, especially this particular video. 👍
I wish some fundamentalist Christian friends I had would do the same.
It'd be great to hear a show about the Romano-Jewish wars that were taking place during the writing of the New Testament, and its impact on the writing.
I agree!
This war is in the background during this period, and probably heavily influenced the rise and doctrine of Christianity.
Years ago, I had the privilege of engaging in a thought-provoking discussion about the Bible with an elderly Jewish Laviet. During our conversation, we delved into the conversion of Paul and contemplated his intentions. It was believed that Paul, in his relentless pursuit to eradicate Christianity, resorted to extreme measures such as executing the followers of Peter. However, despite his best efforts, Paul encountered difficulties in achieving his objective. To overcome this obstacle, he resorted to deceit by feigning a divine revelation. By doing so, he managed to infiltrate the community of new believers, all in pursuit of his hidden agenda. To support this argument, the wise Laviet proposed the assumption that upon entering, Paul cunningly usurped the position of the esteemed apostle Peter.
I look forward to this each week .
Megan's Horizon revelation made my day! So eager for Forbidden West to finally come out for PC, next month so I can catch up!
I LOVE ME SOME B.ERHMAN... My first taste were the books..years ago.
You have contributed so much to my "enlightenment".. Thank You sir!!
I have heard the case for Acts being a later "forgery" in the pen of Paul probably authored by the same person who authored Luke.
Acts isn't a forgery, since there's no claim it was written by Paul. I don't believe it was ever even thought to be so historically.
@@jeffmacdonald9863 hence the ""quotes.
Always excited!!! And I’m second! Maybe Bart will see me!
"For the first forty years we only have one person's (ie Paul's) writings..." Actually none of Paul's letters are reliably dated. So why insist on an early date? How do you know that they didn't come after AD70 like all the other Christian literature?
When I was a child, our church of Christ minister taught Greek at a seminary. He pointed out that Paul was told to "arise and be baptized". In other words Paul was baptized standing up. In the churches of Christ baptism is considered salvific. What exactly did the early church believe about baptism? Was it considered essential for salvation or was it like the Baptists believe, an ordinance? On the other side of the coin, The late Dr. Michael Brown taught New Testament at Hebrew Union College. I was told by him and many other academics that the Book of Acts is historical fiction.
Hebrew Bible is NOT the original bible, Septuagint was the original bible,God's family were Greeks, Israelites were Greek, Israel was Jacobs name not a place, Titus was the Chrestus author of All biblical scripture, Sancus, Saints,Sabines that can be dated to at least 25000BC,why you always have the Greek translation, ORIGINAL language obviously, Hebrew Masoretic texts are 1100AD, completely different to the original Septuagint, Yahweh Satan added to the original Septuagint, Solomon's temple built by Hiram Abiff, Satan himself,why Titus crucified them all.
@@tyronecox5976 This is pure nonsense. You need to read more reliable history tyronecox
When I hear that there were several differing accounts of Paul's encounter with Jesus, I am inclined to recall that liars have a hard time keeping their story straight!
Megan always has the coolest glasses!
Dr. Ehrman, this episode was an absolute banger! It blew my mind. You connected so many dots for me!
The main takeaway here is that Paul was completely insane
Great speculative exposition of the mental steps Paul may have taken to develop his exceptionally original theology. Thank you !
With the mention from Megan about Horizon Zero Dawn, this is now become my most favourite podcast of all time. If there's an episode outlining the messianic narratives that would come from the life of Alloy, I will be here for it!
Megan, those glasses are so amazing! I love all your interesting eyewear!
For some reason the ad about Paul around minute 42 had audio issues. Megan's voice alone came out of the left ear and the music alone came out of the right ear.
My take is Paul being a committed Pharisee and opponent of the Sect of the Way, committing crimes against humanity, even resulting in their death, began experiencing PTSD similar to the majority of solders who cause the death of others by their actions. This is the root of his mental turmoil. His baptism helps to assuage his conscious. He spends the rest of life philosophically and actively solving his religious predicament creating a new variety of Gentile salvation.
That was a fabulous episode! Thank you very much!
I would like to see a discussion of how Jesus and the early Christians believed the apocalypse was imminent. When I first carefully read the New Testament this is something that struck me right away and that had never been talked about in Catholic catechism classes, how several times in different gospels Jesus says things like “some of you will still be living when I return”
You have to keep in mind that these things were written thirty to sixty years after his death, so that window was already closing very rapidly. By the time these texts were compiled into the bible it was an obvious lie. That alone tells you that Christianity is based on lies. Does it matter? As you can see in case of Trump people don't care. They will buy the lie just fine as long as it fits their needs.
Thanks both ! from Ethiopia 🇪🇹
Excellent episode. Packed with insight.
How did we get from Biblical Judaism, keeping Torah, temple sacrifice, observing the festivals, to "believe in Jesus for salvation?" And the messiah as savior and king of the universe?
I wrote that comment early in my watching of the video. I think Bart answered my question
@@allencampbell8308
You won't find the following on any Christian / Agnostic platforms:
The true Messiah could NEVER EVER be cr-ucif-ied and put through such hu-mil-iat10n.
A-s per prophecy from the OT.
No wonder.
✅ Mark 14:36:
👉 Jesus PRAYS to God, IN TRUST, that *the Cup is TAKEN AWAY from him*
Psalm 20:6
Now know I that the Lord *SA-VE-TH* his *ME:SS:IAH* ;
He 👉 *ANS-WE-RE-TH* 👈 him from the
👉 HE-AVE-NS 👈 of His holiness, with the ✅ *SA:VI:NG ST-RE-NG-TH* of His right hand.
************
*Jesus never got c-r-u-c-i-f-i-e-d* . Saul aka Paul the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about preached a literally c-r-u-c-i-f-i-e-d Messiah which according to the Hebrew scriptures is a FA_LSE messiah exp0sed by God. Paul achieved what he set out to do. He made sure that the J3-w nation never accepts Jesus as Messiah.
Really looking forward to Luke next week!
I also love waking up to something I'm looking forward to, but I also don't like to leave work when it's dark, and I do have to be on for 9 hours, so I typically wake up at 4, do my stuff, and go to the gym at 6 so that I'm at work by 7h30. Pretty good way to live.
Outside of the Bible, is there any way to verify Paul’s claims as to where he was born, lived, schooling and conversion?
Hi. Spaniard here. Sorry for your husband's MS. Mucha suerte
Thanks for the upload
Bart said that Paul was an apocalyptic Jew before his conversion. How does he know? All writings of Paul we have, are after his conversion.
Because if Jesus was the chosen one it makes sense although it's all flooy anyways
Paul wrote autobiographically in Philippians that he was of the tribe of Benjamin, plus a Pharisee, who as a group believed in the resurrection at the coming Kingdom of God, a hallmark of Jewish apocalyptic thinking.
Great discussion. Thank you!
Question for Megan--where do you get those groovy spectacles?
Wish there was a way to easily skip the small talk they always start out with
Now I want to see Megan do a let's play series!
I’m also sorry to hear about the MS. Wishing you both strength and positivity for the journey.
Very happy to hear that you love Final Fantasy. I grew up on it. Final Fantasy 6 is probably my favorite.
Which new testament book is first to be written? Some says "Epistle to the Galatians" while other says "gospels of mark" and some others says "1 Thessalonians". I try to search google but the answer just keep changing between those 3
Off topic ..... but I like Megan's glasses!
My routine is basically Bart's. Love it.
Please talk about the Pharasees and Sadducees for us, no body rver talks about them and what was happening to them at that time that lead them to the decision to crush Jesuses movement.
never thought i’d hear bart asking about fortnite
I have an off topic question. Can you recommend a good book about angel mythology? I'm trying to explain the angels in Hazbin Hotel to my wife and I realize I don't know as much as I want
Love the design of your glasses Megan! 👓 ❤
Me too!!!
In some sense, how could Paul know that the vision he saw was Jesus, because he had never met Jesus before. And in that time, no picture, photo, or anything that Paul himself can justify that he saw a vision of Christ.
Paul took the entity's word for identification.
@@dianadeejarvis7074 what if…Paul had some bipolar or schizo psychological problem?
IMO Paul never converted to the OG "by Jews, for Jews" version of Christianity. Rather he saw an opportunity to take a dying cult and make it mainstream with a few tweaks to improve marketability to the masses. He is arguably at least as important as Jesus, along with the destruction of the Temple for the Gospels, to the version of Christianity we have today.
Paul converted Christianity not the other way around.
A problem with Dr. Ehrman's explanation for Paul's "vision" of Jesus is that Paul was not a follower of Jesus, so he had no emotional connection to Jesus. People who tend to have visions of the dead usually see someone they loved and cared about. Psychologically, it's a method for us to cope with the loss of that loved one. Paul was not even a Christian at the time, so he wouldn't have had a religious or spiritual connection that would induce the vision experience, as we see in people who have vision of Mary. And finally, only Paul claims to have heard the voice. The others with him heard a noise but didn't hear what was said, so I don't know if this would fit the criteria for a "group hallucination."
off off-topic and maybe superficial: but I love Mega's eyeglass frame and I would like to give them to my wife as a B-Day present. Can Megan or something else please let me know the name of those eyeglass frames? :)
Coming up with thoughtful gifts for one’s wife is never superficial!
These ones came from Zeelool, the frames are called "Flozif" :)
But Lazarus was first to come back from the dead...??? (in the story)
Could you comment on Acts 11:26 as you said that you can't call them Christians until much later.
please fix bart's audio. it is never nearly as loud as the interviewer making it very hard to listen to the videos. this has been an ongoing problem for a long time. please please try harder to fix it. thank you
I 'm watching on a Galaxy tablet and I hear him just fine.
No issue with the sound on my Samsung.
I wonder if Paul was feeling growing remorse over his treatment of Christians, and like the protagonist in “The Tell-Tale Heart”, allowed his guilty conscience to conjure up a mystical vision he then interpreted as Jesus.
Saul aka Paul the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about preached a literally cru-c-ifie-d Messiah which according to the Hebrew scriptures is a FA_LSE messiah exp0sed by God.
Paul achieved with h1s Gospel from the DE_V-I-L aka "My Gospel" what he could never achieve by physically k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus. Paul k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus would have stopped sooner or later by the inevitable d3ath of Paul. However, Paul made sure that his work continues even to this day. Paul went after the spiritual k1ll1ng of his followers. He made sure that the coming generations of the J3ws never accept Jesus as the Messiah.
There is already evidence of ANOTHER GOSPEL AND ANOTHER JESUS which is contrary to Paul's "MY Gospel" and people are QUICKLY aba-nd-oning the Paul's ab_o-mi-nat-ion from the DE_V-I-L 👉 "My Gospel".
Galatians 1:6
I am astonished that you are SO QUICKLY DESERTING the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ AND ARE TURNING TO A DIFFERENT GOSPEL--
"....... ANOTHER GOSPEL -"
Galatians
3:1
O foolish Galatians, WHO hath be-wit-che-d you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[You foolish Galatians! WHO has b-e-wit-che-d you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.]
It's Paul who is upset and desperately wants to PORTRAY that Jesus Christ was crucified. It was Paul who had PORTRAYED that Jesus Christ was actually crucified. It's Paul who invented and promoted the false Gospel - the fiction called Jesus' Crucifixion. It's Paul who TRIC-KED people into believing that Jesus actually got Crucified.
Saul aka Paul the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about preached a literally cru-c-ifie-d Messiah which according to the Hebrew scriptures is a FA_LSE messiah exp0sed by God.
Paul achieved with h1s Gospel from the DE_V-I-L aka "My Gospel" what he could never achieve by physically k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus. Paul k1ll1ng the followers of Jesus would have stopped sooner or later by the inevitable d3ath of Paul. However, Paul made sure that his work continues even to this day. Paul went after the spiritual k1ll1ng of his followers. He made sure that the J3ws as a nation never accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Yes, I've also thought of this explanation. Paul feeling remorse for what he has done (some have him involved in stoning st. Stephen) explains his vision and his fanatical devotion to rhe Christian cause thereafter, despite not knowing Jesus personally.
@@J.B.Ram1
Devotion or d3c3pt10n?
Remorse or sa-bo-ta-ge?
Paul's work continues to date. By the fruits ye shall know them. No wonder Jesus foretold and wa-rn-ed.
1)
Jesus: ✅ THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:3.
Christians: ❌ NO. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Triune-God / Godhead / The Trinity / One God in three persons or whatever you want to call it) is the true God.
2)
Jesus: ✅NO payment needed, NO Jesus died for us. Just repent sincerely and the Merciful God (THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER) forgives.
Christians: ❌ NO. Salvation comes by the blood of Jesus and his dying on the cross
3)
Jesus: ✅ Keep the Laws and the commandments if you want eternal life
Christians: ❌ NO. Eternal life comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus
4)
Jesus: ✅ Do NOT neglect even the smallest laws
Christians: ❌ NO. Those laws are unimportant
5)
Jesus: ✅ I was sent ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel
Christians: ❌ NO. Jesus came for us all, Jesus came for all of mankind
Thanks to Paul of the Bible the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng.
@@J.B.Ram1
Devotion or d3c3pt10n?
Remorse or sa-bo-ta-ge?
Jesus w-ar-ne-d about the f3r0c10us w0lv3s in she-ep's clo-thi-ng.
Also gave the standard to evaluate:
By the fruits ye shall know them
If Paul eventually came to the conclusion that keeping the law wouldn’t make you right with god and that the sacrifice of Jesus was the atonement that made humanity right with god, then where did the leap to “you have to BELIEVE in that sacrifice to be saved” come from? I’m not connecting those dots. Why not instead, “the death of Jesus atoned for sins and therefore it’s done, that is all, we’re good”? Why is belief necessary if the atonement was complete and final? Someone please explain.
Those are all my games ❤❤
In addition to "vanilla" illusion (changing what's there)/hallucination (inventing something there), there are also the mnemonic versions, in which you remember seeing someone, but at the time you didn't report seeing them or act like they were there.
Oh, didn't think Megan could be even more adorable 😱 But there she is, going through a massive adventure videogame.
I'm myself am an academic in literature, and also I'm going through Horizon Forbidden West. I'm not enjoying the plot line as much, but the combat and the visual aesthetic of the world are ever enjoyable.
Hope to see Bart in Wichita in a couple weeks!
10:00 Wouldn't "Judeo-Christian" then be the best label for those people like Paul who were both Jewish and Christian?
I think people before Paul had put together that chain of reasoning accursed - > beloved - > sacrifice. There were already such believers around, whom Paul was persecuting. Then, his own experience confirmed the chain.
The Pauline Epistles conforms to a Gnostic or Gnostic-like Cosmic Christ. And as the Pauline Epistles is the only evidence we have of the earliest Christians, we have no evidence that the original belief was in a Cosmic Christ. So, why do so many insist of taking the Gospels written a generation later and anachronistically project them back onto the original Christians?
What was most fortuitous, IMO, was the utter destruction of the Temple and the end of ritual sacrifice as an essential part of Judaism. Ehrman's _ratio_ always feeds my _fides_ .
Maybe there's just MORE to reality than what we see? ... I suspect this is so ... But, I don't think it's likely that people are having "hallucinations" ... Of course, we can't yet know for sure... I just think it's less likely that folks are having hallucinations ... Btw ... I'm a retired industrial engineer so, I tend to like science and logic ... Even so..., the universe and "existence" is so full of mystery and incredible discoveries so, I try to keep an open mind even when something seems "incredible" ...
I notice a lot of engineers believe in God. Not necessarily biologists or physicists, etc. Perhaps because they view things through their lense? The universe must need a big engineer who made it all?
@@joecheffo5942 maybe, idk... As to what that God/engineer/Creator MIGHT look like?.......... Lol....... Well, I have NO idea about that BUT, it may be multiple engineers perhaps?... I guess it just seems to me like it takes more faith to believe that what we have in our universe happened in a random sort of way... For me it seems MORE likely that there was input from some intelligent designers along the way but, having said that, saying what they might look like or who or what they could be? ..., well..., I've got NO idea ...lol
Any references for the articles reporting modern folk seeing the dead?
Do please have an episode on Job!
How could Jesus die for another's sins? This is expressly forbidden in the OT (Ex 32:30-35, Deut 24:16, 2 Kng 14:6, Jer 31:30, Eze 18:20).
I agree, you need to do an analysis on Job.
I had 'widow hallucinations' of my cat after he died. Not visual, but frequent auditory (he had long claws, so they clicked when he walked) and somatic (I could feel him jumping up in bed with me). Maybe he's also been resurrected.
50:43 What is your name?
What is your quest?
What's the average air speed of an unladen swallow?
Maybe there's just MORE to reality than what we see? ... I suspect this is so ... But, I don't think it's likely that people are having "hallucinations" ... Of course, we can't yet know for sure... I just think😂 it's less likely that folks are having hallucinations ... Btw ... I'm a retired industrial engineer so, I tend to like science and logic ... Even so..., the universe and "existence" is so full of mystery and incredible discoveries so, I try to keep an open mind even when something seems "incredible" ...
Same with my dog, full with visual hallucinations. I kept seeing him from the corner of my eyes for weeks at his usual resting spots. 15 years of daily habit breaks hard.
Bart mentioned several times that Paul believed Jesus to be the Messiah. Does this mean that he also regarded Jesus as being God himself? And if so, for Paul is Jesus the Jewish God incarnate?
The full on tactile, vision and sound including bereavement hallucinations are quite rare though, happening a little more often than to 2% of people. The most common group of people who have bereavement hallucinations are people in their 30s. There it is possible that over 35% of them experience the presence of a deceased loved one (only the presence that is, no sound, no touch, no vision).
But yes, the number is very high indeed, and even if it is just experiencing the presence of somebody, this can turn into "they literally met Jesus after his death" rather quickly.
Megan is a gamer! Instant coolness! Did you try BG3?
30:16 if the end were nigh, and God will do what he will do, what has this to do with Paul? His missionary zeal was misplaced.
If Luke wrote Acts, does that mean Acts was also written after Paul's death? That mean the story of paul in Acts isn't authentic story of paul?
"...he is getting stoned one time....with rocks". ROFLOL You are simply great, Prof. Ehrmann. Made my day. 🤣
It's completely unfair when we impose Christianity on Jesus Christ and on his Desciples which they never heard in their lifetime.
Very helpful - really good points and insights. Thank you!