This is honestly the topic I knew least about out of all my videos, so partly the reason why this took so long! I kept going down all these interesting rabbit holes, and scrapped a lot of things that weren't pertinent to Rise's portrayal. Local idols were amazing to learn about haha. Anyway, I'll certainly return to the topic of idols once I'm finished with all of my Persona analyses and begin expanding to other video game and/or anime series~ Then I'll be able to include some of the other microcosms of idol industry that didn't make the cut here! Btw, if you'd like to see example of some Japanese girl groups that are powerhouses like Kpop groups, check out Happiness and NiziU www.youtube.com/@NiziUOfficial (Happiness doesn't have official channel of their own, but here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/j6Ft-ZPBaFU/v-deo.html ) PLEASE CHECK OUT OSAKA OBACHAAAN. MY NEW LOVE
I actually been studying the music industry for years now. Why? I'm an author of some fictions but published or not. Im a heterosexual dude but I honestly prefer working on female oriented characters in their girl life it's just simply me. I have two female singer groups, one a trio set of girls, the other a solo girl but will sometime come across stories doing a music group with two other solo singers .... mostly with Rise Kujikawa from Persona 4 and Sheryl Nome from Macross frontier . I have to make Rise and Sheryl show up outside their stories. Why? My solo singer is very close with Rise and Sheryl, my solo character doesn't care they belong to three different authors The other group of girl singers well...let's just say those girls are very talented at singing about dicks
I knew the idol industry in Japan was bad but I didn't think it was that bad. Seeing that poor girl be treated like a pariah by her fans to the point she shaved her head and had a mental breakdown for simply having a boyfriend was absolutely heartbreaking and made me absolutely livid. I hope she's in a better place emotionally and is still with her bf.
@@jialin7 Yeah, what these agencies do to their talents is just so inhumane. And I'm sure there were a number of fans that did support her. I'm not a fan but after seeing what she went through I want to support her, but toxic parasocial relationships that have fans have I feel was a factor as well. I'm not really into idol culture except for Rise but I admire a lot of those girls' strong wills and tenacity. If it were me I'd leave the agency in a month because I wouldn't be able to put up with the bs they'd put me through.
If all you get from this video is that it is "bad", then you missed the point. You should learn and understand the cultural differences instead of simply conclude it as "bad"
Embrace your inner child. All of yourself. This was a great use of Jungian concepts to discuss how Rise is a master of relationships. In Japanese society it is hard for us to open up to others. So, Rise's ability to open to herself up and understand others, and all of the parts of herself in that way is a great display of what P4 does best. Rise in a way refuses not just one part, but a large part of herself because it has been manufactured. P4D's themes of dancing with your expression instead of the script others give you goes very well into Jung's ideas of individuation, as well as his influence on dance therapy. Either way this was fantastic high quality video Lady. Keep up the good work! Continue reading that Jung! It's always good when you use him!
Speaking of Jung, if you're interested in visiting it, the house he and his wife lived in is now a museum. It's located in Küsnacht, Switzerland (about 26 minutes from downtown Zürich).
I like how you pointed out both the nuanced pros and cons of the idol industry. Usually I find most videos and media these days be mainly one sidedly negative about it, usually from people with a biased lens. Not that the negatives don't have merit but people tend to overlook the boons it's done for Japanese society and why the industry has these practises. I find it interesting that despite many media going into critique social commentary of the idol industry, it hasn't done much to change the idol industry itself based on audience perception as a result of the media pointing out it's faults.
It's interesting to see in the same game where Yoskue coerces the girls to wear Bikinis during the camping trip, and teddies' general attitude towards women played for laughs, but have Rise be sort of a criticism of over-sexualization. And Ann is forced to strip in the palace after Komoshida. I don't know if this is me being a Westoid but I find the messages of female sexuality to be at odds with the game's more anime scenes and undervalue the whole message behind characters like Rise and Ann.
yeah this is fair criticism. I still like to celebrate what good there is in these games, even if some of it was probably unintentional. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for better in the future. I do have more faith in the team that took over after since Hashino left the series.
I think it's a fair analysis, imo the problem with the Persona series is that they want to have their cake (thought-provoking character arcs) and eat it too (appeal to the wider young male audience). It's pretty much the one thing holding these games back from being masterpieces.
Ann is a bit of a diff story. For Ryuji he def is taking things lightly and it’s played for more plot relevance over comedy, and he does show and say that he is ready to fight and protect Ann when push comes to shove. It feels more legit than Yosuke and Teddy. Ann also seems like a commentary on what is appropriate and what isn’t. Ann wants to own her sexuality, and while she feels uncomfortable at times, she wants to be someone who can wield it to her advantage. Not just through appearance, but through her charm and charisma. Even Morgana, who is the “simp”, tends to be more respectful than Yosuke and Teddy. I think P5 does have a different method of tackling the same concepts P4 does. P4 I think has poorer writing in that regard, and while I can’t defend all of P5’s writing decisions, I can give it some leeway cuz I can see what it was going for even if it didn’t succeed perfectly.
In regards to the nude painting moment...Ryuji clarified that they were only gonna use that as a ruse so Ann can stall for time, allowing Morgana to open the door. It was risky, but they had no other option - Yusuke had already kicked them out before, and would only allow Ann in for the sake of the painting, mainly because he was in denial about the accusations that Ryuji threw at Madarame
YEEEEEEES! Best girl let's go! (Well, my favourite romance for Yu. I like Naoto more as a character) The idol elements of Rise's character are often overlooked by fans, so I'm looking forward to a deep dive into them. Wow you can practically read the signs in Rise's tofu store! (I don't have a ton of experience with the HD P4 ports. They still blow me away sometimes) Hey, Tower Records! I know that from The World Ends With You. 7:06 Oh man, I actually remember this skit! 13:46 There's something... uncanny about Yu getting his own dialogue portrait. All the others seem identical to Golden's epilogue, so it sticks out even more. I never considered that but yeah, K-Idols are marketed internationally while Japanese Idols seem to be entirely domestic, I've never heard of any market for them outside Japan, even among the most hardcore otaku. The only exception is if they're also voice actors, but most western fans only concern themselves with their voice work and not their songs. "Promoting prefectural staples and assisting in the revival of the region." Wasn't that the plot of one of those idol anime episodes? So you're telling me, Negicco are the Farfetch'd Idols. Okay. I just paused to watch Osaka Obachan and I wasn't disappointed. So regarding Idol, in the Australian version the 2nd and 3rd place contestants were far more likely to have successful careers. There's a few mainstay performers who I forgot started out on Idol, like Jessica Mauboy. "TV advertising may not be as relevant in the 2020s". Don't American companies spend billions on Superbowl ads still? So the thing about Morooka buying Rise's merch. I've read somewhere that this was supposed to be a HUMANIZING moment for him for Japanese audiences, given what you explained about buying merch to support idols. To a lot of western fans (and the dub's tone spins it this way too from what I remember), this action paints him as a creep. I always saw Rise's dungeon and Shadow as a commentary on the sexualization of minors within the idol industry and how that can affect them. If you have Rise as your "destined partner" during Persona Q's Group Date Cafe dungeon, she barely bats an eyelid at the doctored photo of her and the MC's wedding because SHE'S DEALT WITH FANS SENDING HER MUCH WORSE. She says that so casually too. At the time time, good job drawing attention to Rise's flirtatiousness and being proud of her body on her own terms. There's nuance in every P4 Shadow. (Much as some people forget that) Something interesting about Inoue-san: the anime removes a lot of his nuance and makes him far less sympathetic, possibly because it didn't have enough time to fully develop him. I still love the P4 anime but Inoue is far better in the game. Totally agree on Rise and fitting the "there's no one real you" theme. One cool aspect is her Persona's mythology ties into this too. Her initial Persona, Himiko, is often believed to be a real historical figure but there's little evidence she really existed. This could represent what Rise fears about her "manufactured" idol image. Kanzeon is a deity with a massive array of alternate names, identities and domains (one of her aspects was used as a Virgin Mary stand-in by "hidden Christians", to give an idea of how versatile she is). But also fittingly, the camera brand Canon gets its name from the same goddess. Rise's Personas are perfect. Huh, I always knew Rise took rejection well but I hadn't noticed her dialogue is exactly the same. Also, I love the platonic "I love you" she gives in her non-romantic 3rd tier event. It's a very different tone from her declarations of love on her romance route and it shows how comfortable she is to just be friends with Yu. Kanami's idol outfit... just looks like a fast food mascot. I'm sorry. Weirdly I much prefer her casual look, which is supposed to be the one she's ashamed of. And that's it. Long video, long comment, but Rise deserves it.
I also think, based on what we know of Yu's "personality," Rise is the best fit lol. Oh since you bring up the P4D portraits, Yu and Rise are the only ones to get a different one... Is iT aNoTHeR sIgN?!? 😄 The international marketing of K-media also explains why it's so much easier for streaming sites and other partners to get rights to air their K-dramas, sell the K-music, etc. Japan has really lagged in this regard. Anime has gotten better over the late 2010s, early 2020s, but J-dramas and music are still very hard for international partners to get rights to, and for fans to stream/buy :/ Yeah I watched some youtube video a while back about how Idol, Xfactor, the Voice, all those shows it's better to be the runner-up. Aside from getting locked in a contract, it was really interesting they brought up how the ordinary nature of idols becoming "corporate pop stars" essentially removes the one thing that made them interesting to the audience. This one: ua-cam.com/video/x-E4wWhJx40/v-deo.html The TV ad thing I mentioned just because both in the research and anecdotally of the Millennial+Gen-Z people I know, many don't have any form of TV/cable anymore. I feel like ads you see online are vastly different from TV ads, because they're so targeted. Even *if* you use a VPN and they don't target *you* particularly, it targets the audience of, let's say video gamers watching gaming videos on YT, way more efficiently than a cable network on TV. Creators and influencer sponsorships have basically replaced the typical celebrity TV ad for the younger generations that don't necessarily watch TV anymore, but it's true that TV advertising isn't dead by any means! Still plenty of people watching. Myself included since I live with my dad lol. That Morooka thing is pretty creepy but also makes so much sense. Like ngl it's also a product of social conditioning and normalizing the selling of gravure for so many decades in the first place... :/ It's definitely not right that the agencies are selling these things. But overall it's really hard to know how to tackle these kinds of problems effectively. A never-ending social work dilemma Rise for sure is affected by how the industry normalizes sexualizing their stars. It's not to the *same* extent (no gravure), but it's rather similar to what happens to child actresses here in the West. The ideal is to cut out all the SA-abusers, gravure, etc. from the industry, but easier said than done of course. It's like, wanting to protect these girls, yet you also don't want to take away from their own agency--Britney Spears for example. Love how the personas always reflect the characters so well. Great design by Atlus staff. It's always been my intention to do a breakdown of the P4 and P5 personas in the same vein as my P3 one ^^ Thanks the romantic route footage and thanks always for the long, thoughtful comment Klingy!
@@LadyVirgilia I've noticed there's a lot of K-Dramas on streaming platforms but very rarely and J-Dramas. I watched the X-Factor video. I think it's maybe a bit more complicated than the "ordinary" factor it explains a big part of reality TV: that's it's not really "reality" and a lot of contestants are chosen to fulfil character arcs instead of for their talent. The only reality show I watch now is Lego Masters, which at least in its Australian version feels more skill-based. I'm just a weird person who still watches regular TV and dislikes streaming services, lol. (I have a general distaste for "subscription-based" payment methods in general, it's why I never got into MMOs as a teen. I'd rather pay for something once and own it forever, because if I'm locked into monthly payments I feel like I have to be constantly binging to "get my money's worth") The sad feedback loop where if you buy that kind of merch you're supporting the companies making more of it, but you need to to support the exploited idols... the gravure thing was controversial in Tokyo Mirage Sessions for one dungeon kinda glorifying it while the main characters are underage, but when the localization censored that it got even more rage online. Teddie's Persona is also one of my favourites because its design is full of visual puns (a tomahawk missile when the legend it's based on used an actual tomahawk, the alchemical symbol for gold because "KIN-toki doji"), which is intentional according to developer notes in the artbook. Even in Japanese, Teddie loves puns. Wasn't expecting the footage use, but glad I could help!
Klingy! Havent caught up to your AW1 playthrough since the penultimate mission with Max. As for Kanami's idol outfit, they're supposed to have a food motif, herself being a "prize cow". Their group name even is Kanamin Kitchen. Guess what's made in the kitchen. And now to a personal...gripe, vendetta i guess? It frustrates me how some sectors of a certain virtual fandom try to do the same mistakes of idol culture today, in Nippon and overseas.
@@joshuagabrielcatindig7607 I feel like the members of Kanamin Kitchen having food-themed titles MUST be satire of the idol industry. The stars being "livestock" that the industry sells to fans.
The Junes concert event alone made Rise one of my fav characters in P4. She showed some great leadership ability and kept the others from losing their motivation and/or panicking.
I'm glad to hear that some former idols are making their own companies and groups. The best way to get these older companies to change their ways is to provide competition in the form of rival companies that don't have such insanely restrictive rules for their idols. Surely fans and hopeful idols will prefer a company that treats the idols better, kind of how people buy free range eggs or chocolate from suppliers who say they will make sure the Cocoa bean growers will get a decent deal. (Although there have been more than a few scandals in Australia about free range eggs being free range in marketing only so there is that to consider.) I had not considered that angle on parasocial relationships. I wonder if there is a way to encourage more productive forms in fan circles?
Never been into idols, I knew they were more of a marketing and exploitative gimmick, but I still recognize the girls make a big sacrifice for such a young age. Lately I've been into Enka, such an interesting musical tradition, with such a variety of styles and sounds.
Amazing video as always!!!! Rise has never really been one of my favorites (I do like her, so don't get me wrong), but I've always had a lot of respect for her confidence, and after watching this my respect has grown tenfold! It was really interesting to hear about some of the differences between j-pop and k-pop idols. I've been really into k-pop for a few years, and I also listen to a lot of japanese music but not really the idols, so I'm a lot more familiar with how Korea's idol industry works. Hopefully these industries can become more healthy for everyone involved in the future! Also, the discussion of p4d was nice to see. Since I played p4d after p5d and p3d, I hadn't been expecting it to have such an engaging story. I ended up really enjoying it, and I liked all of the idol girls who were introduced, especially Kanami!
I was a big idol fan in the early 00s until I grew out of it. I actually played Persona 4 because Rise resembled Reina Tanaka from Morning Musume, my favorite idol at the time lol. All of this is pretty spot on.
Agreed. Tsunku and Yasushi Akimoto should be kissing the ground you walk on. As for me, it started in 2001 upon seeing the music video for Morning Musume’s “Renai Revolution 21” (Mari Yaguchi was my oshimen until her abrupt resignation in 2005). Still have some of their DVDs. First exposed to AKB48 in 2007 through one of their sub-groups, Honegumi, since one of their songs was featured on a Japan Airlines inflight audio channel I was listening to. “BINGO!” got me hooked into the group once and for all.
I know about the Kpop industry as a fan but I didn’t know much about the J idol industry. This was really eye opening. It makes me wonder how Japanese K pop idols such as Sana, Momo, Mina, of Twice and Yuta of NCT view the industry of their home country and why they choose to go to Korea instead. Sakura of Le Sserafeim was a part of Iz One (the group made by Produce 48) as well as AKB48. Her perspective would be interesting to hear as well.
i never really got into idol music to be honest. my first exposure to japanese music was in the late 90s with Ringo Shiina and Hikaru Utada. so i came into it more from the popular music/rock aspect (Shonen Knife being another one that I got into for a time). it also helped that I was around the same age/slightly older than these artists at that time too so it was part of my age groups influences at the time.
It’s been a long time coming, but it’s finally here (and it’s great)! Admittedly, the topic of idol groups (girl/boy bands in general) as a whole isn’t exactly my cup of tea, but it is still really interesting to learn about. Context, especially in a low fantasy series like Persona, is of the utmost importance, and this dedication to researching and compiling it all for our collective benefit is truly admirable. Epic stuff
While I'm not into to the idol, girl/boy bands, etc. I do see it similar to how youtubers , streamers, voice actors and indie artist have this similar para-social relationship(something I’m kinda helping with). I mean we are seeing this with V-tubers on the twitch and UA-cam scence. It also cool to hear some of Korea's pop culture. Also I never noticed that Rise’s manager had to somewhat parent to her given her actual parents aren’t doing that munch. That culture context of yusuke art deal is interested. I first thought yusuke's being overly ideal because he thought had to be a "sell out".
Wow! All non-supernatural things in P4 that feelt seriously wierd to me where all explained here. Mainly how Kanamin, the "prize cow" was more real then anyone ever, and the simple fact that tons of my aquaintances could do a better vocal job with "true story" then the famous Risette. It makes a ton of sense in context.
@@starmaker75 and it’s weird because she’s capable of sounding natural. Had she used that voice during Rise’s more “vulnerable” moments, it would really help sell what she’s feeling whenever she’s not being Risette and being just Rise Kujikawa. And that aside, she goes too hyper when adopting the Risette voice. Laura knows where and when to dial it back a bit.
This was in the works for a while but I’m glad it’s finally here! This analysis video on best girl Rise and the insights into the idol industry were very interesting.
This video is so informative on idol culture which i appreciate on learning more; considering i have seen stuff on v-idol more than irl ones. Good video can't wait to see other stuff on other characters
This was really fascinating as a long time fan of the Love Live! series, which shows a much more idealised, independant view of idols. Thank you for another amazing video.
This was a really good video and also very informative for me. You did an amazing job explaining various aspects of Rise as well as the jpop and kpop industry.
Rise fan here and glad you did right by best girl of P4. Super informative and insightful. You hit all the marks and I’m looking forward to more content, Lady!
I've been binging your Persona content, it's SO good! The games (which I already loved) gain a ton of added depth when you actually know some of the cultural context❤❤❤❤❤ thank you so much for your great work!
Thanks for mentioning the "true ending" reveal that the midnight channel/TV world/shadow isn't *only* influenced by the one character. Some analysis and discussions of the game I've seen in the past tend to forget that detail when really it recontextualizes the whole game. I really enjoyed this video and I learned a lot! A long time ago I read a blog post by a Japanese woman who talked about how Naoto reflected some of the issues with sexism she and other women face in Japan, and it really made me appreciate Naoto as a character a lot more once I had that cultural context. This video made me appreciate Rise more too, and I already loved her haha.
I love how educational your channel is 😄 I knew nothing about jpop and kpop before this video and assumed that Rise was just a famous pop star like Taylor Swift or Selena Gomez
Admittedly, I have only ever looked at the idol aspect of the culture through western eyes. This puts the game, as well as the dancing games, put things into proper perspective. It also lends some tragedy to P4D and how things turned out as they did. Thank you for all that research, it was truly insightful.
Yeah I used to think Rise was the character I like the least as well. As an adult I realized I didn't dislike her, I didn't like the mirror her character held up to me. I used to make very black and white assumptions about people and I didn't realy understand what it ment to express the "real me." Now a days I appreciate her for what she's trying to protray.
You'll always be our idol, Lady! But seriously: your subscribers saw you improve on your craft over time and offer needed perspective for these games. Keep rockin'!
Thank you for such a deep analysis! You channel is amazing. I learned so much more about idol industry in Japan from this video. I knew that their choreography and songs are much “simpler” than those of k-pop, but I never knew that interacting with fans was more important than actual performing skills. Wow! This video truly broadened my view of the modern Japanese culture as a whole. You’re amazing!
12:04 ayo a fellow trombonist. Used to play in high school but just wanted to chill my senior year and not have to worry about competing in performances so I stopped. Had to pause and acknowledge this, but I really enjoy the takes you give on the persona games beyond the surface level themes
Not even 3 minutes into this video yet, but the timeline described here and the fanbases of the respective games and so forth made it make perfect sense to me why both this and Yakuza were the perfect series to comment upon the idol industry
Hope this video does well, it was such a good deep dive into rise's character and made me appreciate best girl even more. I know this took you a long time but keep it up, your videos are always top quality!
Excellent video. I've always thought that Rise was probably the most underrated girl of the main cast, despite the fact that she was my best girl, and this video really helps to flesh out why she acts the way she does. Hopefully, this can shed some light to the people who don't necessarily understand her character. A drop of understanding can prevent a well spring of hatred after all.
Rise was the character that grew the most on me on my second playthrough of P4G, going from bottom 3 to second behind naoto. Good to ehar the distinction between JPop idols and KPop idols, i had assumed the two very much more similar since i have never been interested in those genres
Wonderful video, one of my favorite persona analysiseseses on this site. Rise is like the Akechi of P4 for me, constantly disliked and misunderstood because her persona is kind of in the way of her "relatability" to people (much like vanilla Akechi barely getting to be "real" with the player). I think when you dig into her you can see how great she is, and you did such a great job at that, I admire the effort put into the idol industry research and showcasing her character journey.
Thank you for this. There's a ton i missed with Rise. She now went from one of my least favorites to at least mid n leaving me wanting to make another list
Ahhhh missed opportunity to include Locodol anime references XD I love the local idol culture of Japan. It's so unique and fun! I really enjoy this whole thing it's so different from the Bubble Gum pop era here in the States. My favorite Idol Group will always be The Spice Girls. But from Asia? Probably the extremely silly group World Order and for a more kawaii vibe I liked meltia but they don't exist anymore :/
Thank you for all the time and work you put into your videos, your insights always reveal some new facettes of the characters and story, which let me enjoy these amazing games even more.
I’m replaying P5 and Hifumi’s confidant has me thinking back to this video. I think she feels like she’s being forced into an idol role in the shogi world, and your analysis here perhaps sheds more light on why she’s so troubled by that.
I was in band back in school so I have a little experience. I can tell you it is believable they could learn to play 1 ONE song in a week Many forget in band practice you're TAUGHTto play, but herw all they have to do is play. It's possible by sheer rote memorization of the sequence of instrument nechanics
Oooooh, a Rise video! Yessss, I'd love to learn more about the idol industry! I know nebulous things about it, like the dating-ban and the handshake rituals, but I don't have the context you do! Ohhhhh, that makes a lotta sense, then! That JP idols are like, growing up in front of the camera and not that great at singing-dancing initially, and that's THE POINT! And that K-pop idols have them so outclassed because it's so competitive in that industry?? Sooo the name "Kitagawa" is like, Japanese Harvey Weinstein, huh... Why is it always entertainment where these things happen and get so wide-spread and so completely un-root-out-able... Well. It certainly happens in politics, too, so, maybe entertainment is where the survivors are most visible?? As compared to "some small office", they have more name recognition. 1:01:01 - :O Dat's me! I made a difference!? Just by saying thank you?? Awww, that's so nice of youuu! :,)
Me (in Hop Pop's voice): I don't feel safe! No seriously, can you ever imagine how would Hop Pop feel when he discovered the problematic parts of Japanese idols, FOR REAL????!!!!
I'm such a nerd. Everytime Arashi popped up on scream I still couldn't hold back the urge to scream. But yes yes!! I can't wait to see a video about the Judgement series. I was beyond shocked when I saw KimuTaku and the character model and never thought a day would come to pass where a Johnny's idol could appear somewhere like that. I'm glad the victims are slowly able to come out and speak on their abuse they faced. I'm just sorry they had to endure it in secrecy for so long and I was allowed happiness off the backs of their trauma
I came in to learn about Rise as a character (because I absolutely despire her) and came out learning a lot more about J-idol and K-pop industry, thanks!
yeah The idol industry should be one of the best things about the culture , but unfortunately it's not due to the absolute worst of humanity. Its like that over here too but Japan has it way worse, as you pointed out lady. i think that's why Rise hits home with a lot of people myself included. she is what would happen if idols in reality were able to break free of all the crap that they go through on a daily basis and could just be themselves , even when things are really bad. Anyway rant over😂😂 thanks for this i learned a lot more about this topic and that's always a good thing!
Idol stuff always felt kind of Nick Jr. Like to me with the dances and the sound of the music sometimes but seeing they're supposed to come off as some school production sometimes is really eye opening.
While not like an idol, per say. I do have one I truly love to see and hear a lot, and thats Aoi Yuuki! Ever since remembering her due to Symphogear, when the 3rd season aired? She lowly became one of my fav JP artists and such, and also my fav Female VA of all time. I just enjoy and love what she does and how much confidence she grew into from it all.
12:02, I’m here!!! Sorry I’ve squandered my talent and prospects at being a musician, but I still have my two thousand dollar bone! I didn’t get into Curtiss on the first try so I just gave up on it, which is kinda silly cause I’m sure that’s the kinda school you gotta be persistent and have notoriety for, not poorly recorded auditions. Hahahah don’t doubt Chie’s *chops* ! 13:00
If I may add, I got from another video I watched some time ago, the Japanese public's obsession with the purity of idols and such could also stem from their former reverence towards their emperor, specifically how the emperor is some kind of god or something. So yeah, the idol worship and culture thing could be an evolution of their worship of their emperor back in the day and kind of brings a sort of cultural origin for idols
5:42 Is that what's going on there? Based on so many of their other interactions, I interpreted her refusal to use honorifics for him as blatant rudeness, since she's kinda shitty to him elsewhere (like in one of his SLs he mentions her mocking his habit of creating dolls).
I do think they are close. In their first interaction Kanji sets the bar by being very direct, and it goes from there. They mostly arrive at stuff together. They talk about each other. In spite of the harsh tones Kanji reparied Rises uniform - showing her his sewing skills, that he is deeply insecure about. With Kanji, Rise has an honest friend that clearly isnt there because of Risette. Rise may call him Moronji, but she knows his heart is in the right place. She never calls him a delinquent. She does it teasingly, but she tries to help push him in regards to Naoto.
Yeah at the beginning when you first talk to her, I personally interpreted her as being a bit aloof. Polite but wants you to leave her be. I appreciate the difference in perspective, though.
Maybe I stretch the definition, but Id say we all have a parasocial relationship with the cast of games we play - especially with Persona games, having such a social focus.
Done watching, beautiful! Rise was already my favorite character in P4 but this video made me view her in a new light and appreciate even more her character traits along with the concept of "your real self", plus the context and all the content put into your work is truly amazing! Thanks you so much for making your videos!
My favourite artist id my dad ^^, he plays the bass in a group made of him nad his friends! Anyways this vid wa super interesting, and seeing it come out closely after the huge success of Oshi No Ko was a cool coincidence (tho I assume it was being worked on long before that).
After watching this Video like a lot of times, I can imagine a Variant of myself from an Alternate Universe where a majority of Earth's inhabitants are nothing, but Anthropomorphic Talking Cartoon Frogs, just like with the lines of Disney's Amphibia, complete with my Alternate Self as a Cartoon Frog uttering "I don't feel safe!" just like with Hop Pop did.
Because of well, that's how would my Cartoon Frog Self from an Alternate Universe feel when I've discovered the problematic parts of Japanese idols and stuff.
as a westerner who's main exposure to idols and "idol culture" basically just comes from anime and games... and youtube it seems like all I really knew about idols is they make music and *the scandals* to an extent. since the main portrayals I've seen are hugely popular brands like Love Live!, Mina from the thriller Perfect Blue, and later on a guilty pleasure in Zombie Land SAGA I had no idea they were at all expected or allowed to be rougher around the edges in terms of performance as the norm but that sure makes a lot of sense with how young the performers are. Zombie Land touches lightly on some more unpleasant sides of the idol industry in a mildly satirical way but like most anime featuring cute idol girls it's a lot of popcorn fluff and uplifting messages, which is soothing to watch sometimes.
still is incredibly weird how pinups of minors exist. i cant understand the appeal, but ig its a diff culture? grooming & sexual exploitation of minors shouldnt be excused like that tho this was a good, informative video. i r like your content & this is another banger 🔥
The biggest thing I learned from this video is that J-Pop and K-Pop are so inherently different. I've never been interested in the idol scene (or pop in general), so most of what I knew was the vague horror stories and a background noise of people pushing back against them. This video has really broadened my outlook on both cultures' pop idol scenes, though I'm still not terribly interested in either. (I just have a general disinterest in songs with lyrics, which is why I lean very far into videogame music.) I also always saw Rise as a kind of "attractive but not really interesting" character and you've completely 180'd me on that. While I'm still going to have a dislike of the pigtail look (which Rise has for *precisely* the reason I don't like it: it makes you look artificially young and innocent), it tracks far, far, far better with what her character is meant to be about and I respect that a lot. Awesome video!
5:45 This is the problem I had with the English translation and the dub of the Persona are the inconsistencies as they would keep in the honorifics, but most of the time they end up addressing the characters by the first name with honorifics instead of the last name like in the original which ends up contradicting the purpose of honorifics.
I'm not that much into idol (groups) as the performer, more into the songs itself they do (and how they do it). Means I don't stick to a single artist or group thereof and have various songs from differing artists in my playlists. Definitively not the target group of Japanese Idols companies.
The comparison to child stars really does remind me of the ones I grew up with like Hilary Duf and Ashely Tisdale, and on the male side even the Jonas Brothers They were all really popular for a couple years and even had charting songs but after Disney they just kind of fell off the Earth
Regarding with Minegishi's problematic side, it makes me want to utter "I don't feel safe!" from Bill Farmer as Hop Pop from a Disney Cartoon called Amphibia.
Honestly, a lot of the stuff that you claim to be different from the American music industry exist to a large extent. The unprofessional aspects of punk rock is a part of the appeal, and a lot of pop singers have their music written for them. It’s so not going to be exactly the same, because that’s just naturally how different cultures work, but it’s not like it’s in an entirely different league.
I'm not an idol person. I'm a music hound. So I prefer the groups that put much more focus on creating polished music. I do not want AKB48. I want Mary's Blood, Lovebites, Kalafina, and KOKIA.
The only idol group I have any affection for (and not entirely sure how much they count, since I'm not a huge fan or anything) is K/DA. I'm not even a League of Legends player (never even tried it), but their whole schtick is fun (and I've seen some really good A/GMVs with their music. Oh, unless Babymetal counts? They have the idol aesthetic, more or less, but I tend to assume they don't. Just not into music as much in general, especially when it comes to countries with more unique music scenes.
This is honestly the topic I knew least about out of all my videos, so partly the reason why this took so long! I kept going down all these interesting rabbit holes, and scrapped a lot of things that weren't pertinent to Rise's portrayal. Local idols were amazing to learn about haha. Anyway, I'll certainly return to the topic of idols once I'm finished with all of my Persona analyses and begin expanding to other video game and/or anime series~ Then I'll be able to include some of the other microcosms of idol industry that didn't make the cut here!
Btw, if you'd like to see example of some Japanese girl groups that are powerhouses like Kpop groups, check out Happiness and NiziU
www.youtube.com/@NiziUOfficial
(Happiness doesn't have official channel of their own, but here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/j6Ft-ZPBaFU/v-deo.html )
PLEASE CHECK OUT OSAKA OBACHAAAN. MY NEW LOVE
I actually been studying the music industry for years now. Why? I'm an author of some fictions but published or not. Im a heterosexual dude but I honestly prefer working on female oriented characters in their girl life it's just simply me. I have two female singer groups, one a trio set of girls, the other a solo girl but will sometime come across stories doing a music group with two other solo singers .... mostly with Rise Kujikawa from Persona 4 and Sheryl Nome from Macross frontier .
I have to make Rise and Sheryl show up outside their stories. Why? My solo singer is very close with Rise and Sheryl, my solo character doesn't care they belong to three different authors
The other group of girl singers well...let's just say those girls are very talented at singing about dicks
Aww wish I was there to attend the P1 livestream
I knew the idol industry in Japan was bad but I didn't think it was that bad. Seeing that poor girl be treated like a pariah by her fans to the point she shaved her head and had a mental breakdown for simply having a boyfriend was absolutely heartbreaking and made me absolutely livid. I hope she's in a better place emotionally and is still with her bf.
I think most of the fans were fine with it and voiced support, but agencies…
@@jialin7 Yeah, what these agencies do to their talents is just so inhumane. And I'm sure there were a number of fans that did support her. I'm not a fan but after seeing what she went through I want to support her, but toxic parasocial relationships that have fans have I feel was a factor as well. I'm not really into idol culture except for Rise but I admire a lot of those girls' strong wills and tenacity. If it were me I'd leave the agency in a month because I wouldn't be able to put up with the bs they'd put me through.
And now the same threat is looming over vtubers.
To quote Bill Farmer as Hop Pop about it: I don't feel safe!
If all you get from this video is that it is "bad", then you missed the point.
You should learn and understand the cultural differences instead of simply conclude it as "bad"
Embrace your inner child. All of yourself. This was a great use of Jungian concepts to discuss how Rise is a master of relationships. In Japanese society it is hard for us to open up to others. So, Rise's ability to open to herself up and understand others, and all of the parts of herself in that way is a great display of what P4 does best. Rise in a way refuses not just one part, but a large part of herself because it has been manufactured. P4D's themes of dancing with your expression instead of the script others give you goes very well into Jung's ideas of individuation, as well as his influence on dance therapy. Either way this was fantastic high quality video Lady. Keep up the good work! Continue reading that Jung! It's always good when you use him!
Speaking of Jung, if you're interested in visiting it, the house he and his wife lived in is now a museum. It's located in Küsnacht, Switzerland (about 26 minutes from downtown Zürich).
I like how you pointed out both the nuanced pros and cons of the idol industry. Usually I find most videos and media these days be mainly one sidedly negative about it, usually from people with a biased lens. Not that the negatives don't have merit but people tend to overlook the boons it's done for Japanese society and why the industry has these practises.
I find it interesting that despite many media going into critique social commentary of the idol industry, it hasn't done much to change the idol industry itself based on audience perception as a result of the media pointing out it's faults.
To quote Hop Pop about it when we discover the problematic parts about it: I don't feel safe!
It's interesting to see in the same game where Yoskue coerces the girls to wear Bikinis during the camping trip, and teddies' general attitude towards women played for laughs, but have Rise be sort of a criticism of over-sexualization. And Ann is forced to strip in the palace after Komoshida. I don't know if this is me being a Westoid but I find the messages of female sexuality to be at odds with the game's more anime scenes and undervalue the whole message behind characters like Rise and Ann.
yeah this is fair criticism. I still like to celebrate what good there is in these games, even if some of it was probably unintentional. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for better in the future. I do have more faith in the team that took over after since Hashino left the series.
I think it's a fair analysis, imo the problem with the Persona series is that they want to have their cake (thought-provoking character arcs) and eat it too (appeal to the wider young male audience). It's pretty much the one thing holding these games back from being masterpieces.
Ann is a bit of a diff story. For Ryuji he def is taking things lightly and it’s played for more plot relevance over comedy, and he does show and say that he is ready to fight and protect Ann when push comes to shove. It feels more legit than Yosuke and Teddy.
Ann also seems like a commentary on what is appropriate and what isn’t. Ann wants to own her sexuality, and while she feels uncomfortable at times, she wants to be someone who can wield it to her advantage. Not just through appearance, but through her charm and charisma.
Even Morgana, who is the “simp”, tends to be more respectful than Yosuke and Teddy. I think P5 does have a different method of tackling the same concepts P4 does. P4 I think has poorer writing in that regard, and while I can’t defend all of P5’s writing decisions, I can give it some leeway cuz I can see what it was going for even if it didn’t succeed perfectly.
In regards to the nude painting moment...Ryuji clarified that they were only gonna use that as a ruse so Ann can stall for time, allowing Morgana to open the door. It was risky, but they had no other option - Yusuke had already kicked them out before, and would only allow Ann in for the sake of the painting, mainly because he was in denial about the accusations that Ryuji threw at Madarame
YEEEEEEES! Best girl let's go! (Well, my favourite romance for Yu. I like Naoto more as a character) The idol elements of Rise's character are often overlooked by fans, so I'm looking forward to a deep dive into them.
Wow you can practically read the signs in Rise's tofu store! (I don't have a ton of experience with the HD P4 ports. They still blow me away sometimes)
Hey, Tower Records! I know that from The World Ends With You.
7:06 Oh man, I actually remember this skit!
13:46 There's something... uncanny about Yu getting his own dialogue portrait. All the others seem identical to Golden's epilogue, so it sticks out even more.
I never considered that but yeah, K-Idols are marketed internationally while Japanese Idols seem to be entirely domestic, I've never heard of any market for them outside Japan, even among the most hardcore otaku. The only exception is if they're also voice actors, but most western fans only concern themselves with their voice work and not their songs.
"Promoting prefectural staples and assisting in the revival of the region." Wasn't that the plot of one of those idol anime episodes?
So you're telling me, Negicco are the Farfetch'd Idols. Okay.
I just paused to watch Osaka Obachan and I wasn't disappointed.
So regarding Idol, in the Australian version the 2nd and 3rd place contestants were far more likely to have successful careers. There's a few mainstay performers who I forgot started out on Idol, like Jessica Mauboy.
"TV advertising may not be as relevant in the 2020s". Don't American companies spend billions on Superbowl ads still?
So the thing about Morooka buying Rise's merch. I've read somewhere that this was supposed to be a HUMANIZING moment for him for Japanese audiences, given what you explained about buying merch to support idols. To a lot of western fans (and the dub's tone spins it this way too from what I remember), this action paints him as a creep.
I always saw Rise's dungeon and Shadow as a commentary on the sexualization of minors within the idol industry and how that can affect them. If you have Rise as your "destined partner" during Persona Q's Group Date Cafe dungeon, she barely bats an eyelid at the doctored photo of her and the MC's wedding because SHE'S DEALT WITH FANS SENDING HER MUCH WORSE. She says that so casually too. At the time time, good job drawing attention to Rise's flirtatiousness and being proud of her body on her own terms. There's nuance in every P4 Shadow. (Much as some people forget that)
Something interesting about Inoue-san: the anime removes a lot of his nuance and makes him far less sympathetic, possibly because it didn't have enough time to fully develop him. I still love the P4 anime but Inoue is far better in the game.
Totally agree on Rise and fitting the "there's no one real you" theme. One cool aspect is her Persona's mythology ties into this too. Her initial Persona, Himiko, is often believed to be a real historical figure but there's little evidence she really existed. This could represent what Rise fears about her "manufactured" idol image. Kanzeon is a deity with a massive array of alternate names, identities and domains (one of her aspects was used as a Virgin Mary stand-in by "hidden Christians", to give an idea of how versatile she is). But also fittingly, the camera brand Canon gets its name from the same goddess. Rise's Personas are perfect.
Huh, I always knew Rise took rejection well but I hadn't noticed her dialogue is exactly the same. Also, I love the platonic "I love you" she gives in her non-romantic 3rd tier event. It's a very different tone from her declarations of love on her romance route and it shows how comfortable she is to just be friends with Yu.
Kanami's idol outfit... just looks like a fast food mascot. I'm sorry. Weirdly I much prefer her casual look, which is supposed to be the one she's ashamed of.
And that's it. Long video, long comment, but Rise deserves it.
I also think, based on what we know of Yu's "personality," Rise is the best fit lol.
Oh since you bring up the P4D portraits, Yu and Rise are the only ones to get a different one... Is iT aNoTHeR sIgN?!? 😄
The international marketing of K-media also explains why it's so much easier for streaming sites and other partners to get rights to air their K-dramas, sell the K-music, etc. Japan has really lagged in this regard. Anime has gotten better over the late 2010s, early 2020s, but J-dramas and music are still very hard for international partners to get rights to, and for fans to stream/buy :/
Yeah I watched some youtube video a while back about how Idol, Xfactor, the Voice, all those shows it's better to be the runner-up. Aside from getting locked in a contract, it was really interesting they brought up how the ordinary nature of idols becoming "corporate pop stars" essentially removes the one thing that made them interesting to the audience. This one: ua-cam.com/video/x-E4wWhJx40/v-deo.html
The TV ad thing I mentioned just because both in the research and anecdotally of the Millennial+Gen-Z people I know, many don't have any form of TV/cable anymore. I feel like ads you see online are vastly different from TV ads, because they're so targeted. Even *if* you use a VPN and they don't target *you* particularly, it targets the audience of, let's say video gamers watching gaming videos on YT, way more efficiently than a cable network on TV.
Creators and influencer sponsorships have basically replaced the typical celebrity TV ad for the younger generations that don't necessarily watch TV anymore, but it's true that TV advertising isn't dead by any means! Still plenty of people watching. Myself included since I live with my dad lol.
That Morooka thing is pretty creepy but also makes so much sense. Like ngl it's also a product of social conditioning and normalizing the selling of gravure for so many decades in the first place... :/ It's definitely not right that the agencies are selling these things. But overall it's really hard to know how to tackle these kinds of problems effectively. A never-ending social work dilemma
Rise for sure is affected by how the industry normalizes sexualizing their stars. It's not to the *same* extent (no gravure), but it's rather similar to what happens to child actresses here in the West. The ideal is to cut out all the SA-abusers, gravure, etc. from the industry, but easier said than done of course. It's like, wanting to protect these girls, yet you also don't want to take away from their own agency--Britney Spears for example.
Love how the personas always reflect the characters so well. Great design by Atlus staff. It's always been my intention to do a breakdown of the P4 and P5 personas in the same vein as my P3 one ^^
Thanks the romantic route footage and thanks always for the long, thoughtful comment Klingy!
Really think about it, Rise really is a good fit for yu. Both are good at rallying people, being very social and being sympathies of the group.
@@LadyVirgilia I've noticed there's a lot of K-Dramas on streaming platforms but very rarely and J-Dramas.
I watched the X-Factor video. I think it's maybe a bit more complicated than the "ordinary" factor it explains a big part of reality TV: that's it's not really "reality" and a lot of contestants are chosen to fulfil character arcs instead of for their talent. The only reality show I watch now is Lego Masters, which at least in its Australian version feels more skill-based.
I'm just a weird person who still watches regular TV and dislikes streaming services, lol. (I have a general distaste for "subscription-based" payment methods in general, it's why I never got into MMOs as a teen. I'd rather pay for something once and own it forever, because if I'm locked into monthly payments I feel like I have to be constantly binging to "get my money's worth")
The sad feedback loop where if you buy that kind of merch you're supporting the companies making more of it, but you need to to support the exploited idols... the gravure thing was controversial in Tokyo Mirage Sessions for one dungeon kinda glorifying it while the main characters are underage, but when the localization censored that it got even more rage online.
Teddie's Persona is also one of my favourites because its design is full of visual puns (a tomahawk missile when the legend it's based on used an actual tomahawk, the alchemical symbol for gold because "KIN-toki doji"), which is intentional according to developer notes in the artbook. Even in Japanese, Teddie loves puns.
Wasn't expecting the footage use, but glad I could help!
Klingy! Havent caught up to your AW1 playthrough since the penultimate mission with Max. As for Kanami's idol outfit, they're supposed to have a food motif, herself being a "prize cow". Their group name even is Kanamin Kitchen. Guess what's made in the kitchen.
And now to a personal...gripe, vendetta i guess? It frustrates me how some sectors of a certain virtual fandom try to do the same mistakes of idol culture today, in Nippon and overseas.
@@joshuagabrielcatindig7607 I feel like the members of Kanamin Kitchen having food-themed titles MUST be satire of the idol industry. The stars being "livestock" that the industry sells to fans.
The Junes concert event alone made Rise one of my fav characters in P4. She showed some great leadership ability and kept the others from losing their motivation and/or panicking.
I'm glad to hear that some former idols are making their own companies and groups. The best way to get these older companies to change their ways is to provide competition in the form of rival companies that don't have such insanely restrictive rules for their idols. Surely fans and hopeful idols will prefer a company that treats the idols better, kind of how people buy free range eggs or chocolate from suppliers who say they will make sure the Cocoa bean growers will get a decent deal. (Although there have been more than a few scandals in Australia about free range eggs being free range in marketing only so there is that to consider.)
I had not considered that angle on parasocial relationships. I wonder if there is a way to encourage more productive forms in fan circles?
Never been into idols, I knew they were more of a marketing and exploitative gimmick, but I still recognize the girls make a big sacrifice for such a young age. Lately I've been into Enka, such an interesting musical tradition, with such a variety of styles and sounds.
A video feels pertinent and we'll times given how the Oshi no Ko anime has taken off 😅
Amazing video as always!!!! Rise has never really been one of my favorites (I do like her, so don't get me wrong), but I've always had a lot of respect for her confidence, and after watching this my respect has grown tenfold! It was really interesting to hear about some of the differences between j-pop and k-pop idols. I've been really into k-pop for a few years, and I also listen to a lot of japanese music but not really the idols, so I'm a lot more familiar with how Korea's idol industry works. Hopefully these industries can become more healthy for everyone involved in the future!
Also, the discussion of p4d was nice to see. Since I played p4d after p5d and p3d, I hadn't been expecting it to have such an engaging story. I ended up really enjoying it, and I liked all of the idol girls who were introduced, especially Kanami!
As Rise is my favorite Persona character, I greatly appreciate you making this video. It helped me learn about Rise from a different perspective.
I was a big idol fan in the early 00s until I grew out of it. I actually played Persona 4 because Rise resembled Reina Tanaka from Morning Musume, my favorite idol at the time lol.
All of this is pretty spot on.
Agreed. Tsunku and Yasushi Akimoto should be kissing the ground you walk on.
As for me, it started in 2001 upon seeing the music video for Morning Musume’s “Renai Revolution 21” (Mari Yaguchi was my oshimen until her abrupt resignation in 2005). Still have some of their DVDs.
First exposed to AKB48 in 2007 through one of their sub-groups, Honegumi, since one of their songs was featured on a Japan Airlines inflight audio channel I was listening to. “BINGO!” got me hooked into the group once and for all.
I know about the Kpop industry as a fan but I didn’t know much about the J idol industry. This was really eye opening. It makes me wonder how Japanese K pop idols such as Sana, Momo, Mina, of Twice and Yuta of NCT view the industry of their home country and why they choose to go to Korea instead. Sakura of Le Sserafeim was a part of Iz One (the group made by Produce 48) as well as AKB48. Her perspective would be interesting to hear as well.
Amazing work! I always love a good lesson on Jung and Japanese Culture
i never really got into idol music to be honest. my first exposure to japanese music was in the late 90s with Ringo Shiina and Hikaru Utada. so i came into it more from the popular music/rock aspect (Shonen Knife being another one that I got into for a time). it also helped that I was around the same age/slightly older than these artists at that time too so it was part of my age groups influences at the time.
It’s been a long time coming, but it’s finally here (and it’s great)!
Admittedly, the topic of idol groups (girl/boy bands in general) as a whole isn’t exactly my cup of tea, but it is still really interesting to learn about. Context, especially in a low fantasy series like Persona, is of the utmost importance, and this dedication to researching and compiling it all for our collective benefit is truly admirable. Epic stuff
While I'm not into to the idol, girl/boy bands, etc. I do see it similar to how youtubers , streamers, voice actors and indie artist have this similar para-social relationship(something I’m kinda helping with). I mean we are seeing this with V-tubers on the twitch and UA-cam scence.
It also cool to hear some of Korea's pop culture.
Also I never noticed that Rise’s manager had to somewhat parent to her given her actual parents aren’t doing that munch.
That culture context of yusuke art deal is interested. I first thought yusuke's being overly ideal because he thought had to be a "sell out".
Wow!
All non-supernatural things in P4 that feelt seriously wierd to me where all explained here. Mainly how Kanamin, the "prize cow" was more real then anyone ever, and the simple fact that tons of my aquaintances could do a better vocal job with "true story" then the famous Risette. It makes a ton of sense in context.
I really love Laura Bailey’s role as Rise.
I can never forget Laura’s performance as Risette. It’s adorable and beautiful at the same time.
Yeah Rise's japanese voice is.......not good. It one of the few times where i really prefer English. The japanese voice sound like trying too hard.
@@starmaker75 I definitely agree. Way too high pitched for my liking.
Facts.
@@starmaker75 and it’s weird because she’s capable of sounding natural. Had she used that voice during Rise’s more “vulnerable” moments, it would really help sell what she’s feeling whenever she’s not being Risette and being just Rise Kujikawa. And that aside, she goes too hyper when adopting the Risette voice. Laura knows where and when to dial it back a bit.
Yes. RISETTE, RISETTE, RISETTE…
*continues to cheer for Risette until I run out of breath*
This was in the works for a while but I’m glad it’s finally here! This analysis video on best girl Rise and the insights into the idol industry were very interesting.
This video is so informative on idol culture which i appreciate on learning more; considering i have seen stuff on v-idol more than irl ones.
Good video can't wait to see other stuff on other characters
This was really fascinating as a long time fan of the Love Live! series, which shows a much more idealised, independant view of idols. Thank you for another amazing video.
This was a really good video and also very informative for me. You did an amazing job explaining various aspects of Rise as well as the jpop and kpop industry.
Rise was easily my fav character next to the MC. I appreciate the context and detailed explanations.
Rise fan here and glad you did right by best girl of P4. Super informative and insightful. You hit all the marks and I’m looking forward to more content, Lady!
I've been binging your Persona content, it's SO good! The games (which I already loved) gain a ton of added depth when you actually know some of the cultural context❤❤❤❤❤ thank you so much for your great work!
Thanks for mentioning the "true ending" reveal that the midnight channel/TV world/shadow isn't *only* influenced by the one character. Some analysis and discussions of the game I've seen in the past tend to forget that detail when really it recontextualizes the whole game. I really enjoyed this video and I learned a lot!
A long time ago I read a blog post by a Japanese woman who talked about how Naoto reflected some of the issues with sexism she and other women face in Japan, and it really made me appreciate Naoto as a character a lot more once I had that cultural context. This video made me appreciate Rise more too, and I already loved her haha.
I love how educational your channel is 😄
I knew nothing about jpop and kpop before this video and assumed that Rise was just a famous pop star like Taylor Swift or Selena Gomez
Admittedly, I have only ever looked at the idol aspect of the culture through western eyes. This puts the game, as well as the dancing games, put things into proper perspective. It also lends some tragedy to P4D and how things turned out as they did. Thank you for all that research, it was truly insightful.
Yeah I used to think Rise was the character I like the least as well. As an adult I realized I didn't dislike her, I didn't like the mirror her character held up to me. I used to make very black and white assumptions about people and I didn't realy understand what it ment to express the "real me." Now a days I appreciate her for what she's trying to protray.
I turned on the video next thing I know it’s been an hour… this video has me hooked
Finally, the episode I waited for since being both a Persona and vtuber fan.
You'll always be our idol, Lady! But seriously: your subscribers saw you improve on your craft over time and offer needed perspective for these games. Keep rockin'!
Thank you for such a deep analysis! You channel is amazing. I learned so much more about idol industry in Japan from this video. I knew that their choreography and songs are much “simpler” than those of k-pop, but I never knew that interacting with fans was more important than actual performing skills. Wow! This video truly broadened my view of the modern Japanese culture as a whole. You’re amazing!
12:04 ayo a fellow trombonist. Used to play in high school but just wanted to chill my senior year and not have to worry about competing in performances so I stopped. Had to pause and acknowledge this, but I really enjoy the takes you give on the persona games beyond the surface level themes
Her home life shows by how she still lives with her grandma in the epilogue and if i remember right took another hiatus to help her in P5
I loved the Aquors inclusion
Not even 3 minutes into this video yet, but the timeline described here and the fanbases of the respective games and so forth made it make perfect sense to me why both this and Yakuza were the perfect series to comment upon the idol industry
I'm enjoying these persona character analysis videos.
Huh, I never knew about music/performance skill being of lesser importance to new idols, that’s really interesting! Thanks for the info
Yoooo a Rise video from LadyVirgilia lessgoooooooooo
Hope this video does well, it was such a good deep dive into rise's character and made me appreciate best girl even more. I know this took you a long time but keep it up, your videos are always top quality!
Excellent video. I've always thought that Rise was probably the most underrated girl of the main cast, despite the fact that she was my best girl, and this video really helps to flesh out why she acts the way she does. Hopefully, this can shed some light to the people who don't necessarily understand her character. A drop of understanding can prevent a well spring of hatred after all.
Rise was the character that grew the most on me on my second playthrough of P4G, going from bottom 3 to second behind naoto. Good to ehar the distinction between JPop idols and KPop idols, i had assumed the two very much more similar since i have never been interested in those genres
Once again, thanks again for another great video. It was a long wait… but I finally get to see Risette shine on the spotlight in your channel.
Thanks so much for your generosity again! Glad to have the Rise video out at last ^^
Wonderful video, one of my favorite persona analysiseseses on this site. Rise is like the Akechi of P4 for me, constantly disliked and misunderstood because her persona is kind of in the way of her "relatability" to people (much like vanilla Akechi barely getting to be "real" with the player). I think when you dig into her you can see how great she is, and you did such a great job at that, I admire the effort put into the idol industry research and showcasing her character journey.
Thank you for this. There's a ton i missed with Rise. She now went from one of my least favorites to at least mid n leaving me wanting to make another list
Ahhhh missed opportunity to include Locodol anime references XD
I love the local idol culture of Japan. It's so unique and fun! I really enjoy this whole thing it's so different from the Bubble Gum pop era here in the States.
My favorite Idol Group will always be The Spice Girls. But from Asia? Probably the extremely silly group World Order and for a more kawaii vibe I liked meltia but they don't exist anymore :/
Thank you for all the time and work you put into your videos, your insights always reveal some new facettes of the characters and story, which let me enjoy these amazing games even more.
The most mind-blowing thing I learned about Japan idols in this video was Osaka Obachan existence. Now i'm curious to hear the songs
I’m replaying P5 and Hifumi’s confidant has me thinking back to this video. I think she feels like she’s being forced into an idol role in the shogi world, and your analysis here perhaps sheds more light on why she’s so troubled by that.
I was in band back in school so I have a little experience. I can tell you it is believable they could learn to play 1 ONE song in a week
Many forget in band practice you're TAUGHTto play, but herw all they have to do is play. It's possible by sheer rote memorization of the sequence of instrument nechanics
Yesssssssss Lady's thinking about covering Judgement stuff!
about to start dishes, I refreshed and found this! thanks Lady
Oooooh, a Rise video! Yessss, I'd love to learn more about the idol industry! I know nebulous things about it, like the dating-ban and the handshake rituals, but I don't have the context you do!
Ohhhhh, that makes a lotta sense, then! That JP idols are like, growing up in front of the camera and not that great at singing-dancing initially, and that's THE POINT! And that K-pop idols have them so outclassed because it's so competitive in that industry??
Sooo the name "Kitagawa" is like, Japanese Harvey Weinstein, huh... Why is it always entertainment where these things happen and get so wide-spread and so completely un-root-out-able... Well. It certainly happens in politics, too, so, maybe entertainment is where the survivors are most visible?? As compared to "some small office", they have more name recognition.
1:01:01 - :O Dat's me! I made a difference!? Just by saying thank you?? Awww, that's so nice of youuu! :,)
Me (in Hop Pop's voice): I don't feel safe!
No seriously, can you ever imagine how would Hop Pop feel when he discovered the problematic parts of Japanese idols, FOR REAL????!!!!
I'm such a nerd. Everytime Arashi popped up on scream I still couldn't hold back the urge to scream. But yes yes!! I can't wait to see a video about the Judgement series. I was beyond shocked when I saw KimuTaku and the character model and never thought a day would come to pass where a Johnny's idol could appear somewhere like that. I'm glad the victims are slowly able to come out and speak on their abuse they faced. I'm just sorry they had to endure it in secrecy for so long and I was allowed happiness off the backs of their trauma
I came in to learn about Rise as a character (because I absolutely despire her) and came out learning a lot more about J-idol and K-pop industry, thanks!
Persoanlly I try to keep away from Idols. O don't know why but I always have to cry when listening and that gets dehydrating quickly.
yeah The idol industry should be one of the best things about the culture , but unfortunately it's not due to the absolute worst of humanity. Its like that over here too but Japan has it way worse, as you pointed out lady. i think that's why Rise hits home with a lot of people myself included. she is what would happen if idols in reality were able to break free of all the crap that they go through on a daily basis and could just be themselves , even when things are really bad. Anyway rant over😂😂 thanks for this i learned a lot more about this topic and that's always a good thing!
To quote Bill Farmer as Hop Pop about it: I don't feel safe!
Idol stuff always felt kind of Nick Jr. Like to me with the dances and the sound of the music sometimes but seeing they're supposed to come off as some school production sometimes is really eye opening.
the best part of this video is introducing me to osaka obachan..holy fuck
Or alternatively, to quote Hop Pop in a few words, once again: I don't feel safe!
While not like an idol, per say. I do have one I truly love to see and hear a lot, and thats Aoi Yuuki! Ever since remembering her due to Symphogear, when the 3rd season aired? She lowly became one of my fav JP artists and such, and also my fav Female VA of all time. I just enjoy and love what she does and how much confidence she grew into from it all.
I literally just watched your palace ruler one where you mentioned a rise video coming out yesterday and then a day later you post it wtf
12:02, I’m here!!! Sorry I’ve squandered my talent and prospects at being a musician, but I still have my two thousand dollar bone! I didn’t get into Curtiss on the first try so I just gave up on it, which is kinda silly cause I’m sure that’s the kinda school you gotta be persistent and have notoriety for, not poorly recorded auditions.
Hahahah don’t doubt Chie’s *chops* ! 13:00
If I may add, I got from another video I watched some time ago, the Japanese public's obsession with the purity of idols and such could also stem from their former reverence towards their emperor, specifically how the emperor is some kind of god or something. So yeah, the idol worship and culture thing could be an evolution of their worship of their emperor back in the day and kind of brings a sort of cultural origin for idols
5:42 Is that what's going on there? Based on so many of their other interactions, I interpreted her refusal to use honorifics for him as blatant rudeness, since she's kinda shitty to him elsewhere (like in one of his SLs he mentions her mocking his habit of creating dolls).
I do think they are close. In their first interaction Kanji sets the bar by being very direct, and it goes from there.
They mostly arrive at stuff together. They talk about each other. In spite of the harsh tones Kanji reparied Rises uniform - showing her his sewing skills, that he is deeply insecure about. With Kanji, Rise has an honest friend that clearly isnt there because of Risette. Rise may call him Moronji, but she knows his heart is in the right place. She never calls him a delinquent. She does it teasingly, but she tries to help push him in regards to Naoto.
Yeah at the beginning when you first talk to her, I personally interpreted her as being a bit aloof. Polite but wants you to leave her be. I appreciate the difference in perspective, though.
This was so good!
Maybe I stretch the definition, but Id say we all have a parasocial relationship with the cast of games we play - especially with Persona games, having such a social focus.
Amazing Video :)
RISE VIDEOOOO YEEEEEESS
Done watching, beautiful! Rise was already my favorite character in P4 but this video made me view her in a new light and appreciate even more her character traits along with the concept of "your real self", plus the context and all the content put into your work is truly amazing! Thanks you so much for making your videos!
I never played Persona 4 before, but honestly, Rise already sounds like best girl
My favourite artist id my dad ^^, he plays the bass in a group made of him nad his friends!
Anyways this vid wa super interesting, and seeing it come out closely after the huge success of Oshi No Ko was a cool coincidence (tho I assume it was being worked on long before that).
never would have thought that Idol handshake's were akin to parking meters.
After watching this Video like a lot of times, I can imagine a Variant of myself from an Alternate Universe where a majority of Earth's inhabitants are nothing, but Anthropomorphic Talking Cartoon Frogs, just like with the lines of Disney's Amphibia, complete with my Alternate Self as a Cartoon Frog uttering "I don't feel safe!" just like with Hop Pop did.
Because of well, that's how would my Cartoon Frog Self from an Alternate Universe feel when I've discovered the problematic parts of Japanese idols and stuff.
37:16 Best line ever spoken to humanity
IT'S HERE WOOOO
I thought Rise only moved to Inaba after the media backlash and initially was living in working in a larger city like Tokyo.
as a westerner who's main exposure to idols and "idol culture" basically just comes from anime and games... and youtube it seems like all I really knew about idols is they make music and *the scandals* to an extent. since the main portrayals I've seen are hugely popular brands like Love Live!, Mina from the thriller Perfect Blue, and later on a guilty pleasure in Zombie Land SAGA I had no idea they were at all expected or allowed to be rougher around the edges in terms of performance as the norm but that sure makes a lot of sense with how young the performers are. Zombie Land touches lightly on some more unpleasant sides of the idol industry in a mildly satirical way but like most anime featuring cute idol girls it's a lot of popcorn fluff and uplifting messages, which is soothing to watch sometimes.
still is incredibly weird how pinups of minors exist. i cant understand the appeal, but ig its a diff culture? grooming & sexual exploitation of minors shouldnt be excused like that tho
this was a good, informative video. i r like your content & this is another banger 🔥
The biggest thing I learned from this video is that J-Pop and K-Pop are so inherently different. I've never been interested in the idol scene (or pop in general), so most of what I knew was the vague horror stories and a background noise of people pushing back against them. This video has really broadened my outlook on both cultures' pop idol scenes, though I'm still not terribly interested in either. (I just have a general disinterest in songs with lyrics, which is why I lean very far into videogame music.)
I also always saw Rise as a kind of "attractive but not really interesting" character and you've completely 180'd me on that. While I'm still going to have a dislike of the pigtail look (which Rise has for *precisely* the reason I don't like it: it makes you look artificially young and innocent), it tracks far, far, far better with what her character is meant to be about and I respect that a lot. Awesome video!
5:45 This is the problem I had with the English translation and the dub of the Persona are the inconsistencies as they would keep in the honorifics, but most of the time they end up addressing the characters by the first name with honorifics instead of the last name like in the original which ends up contradicting the purpose of honorifics.
I'm not that much into idol (groups) as the performer, more into the songs itself they do (and how they do it). Means I don't stick to a single artist or group thereof and have various songs from differing artists in my playlists. Definitively not the target group of Japanese Idols companies.
The comparison to child stars really does remind me of the ones I grew up with like Hilary Duf and Ashely Tisdale, and on the male side even the Jonas Brothers
They were all really popular for a couple years and even had charting songs but after Disney they just kind of fell off the Earth
This makes Yakuza 5 have so much more sense !❤
Regarding with Minegishi's problematic side, it makes me want to utter "I don't feel safe!" from Bill Farmer as Hop Pop from a Disney Cartoon called Amphibia.
And I can imagine the Day where Hop Pop actually saw Shadow Rise for real, complete with him uttering "I don't feel safe!" to boot.
Ummm well, too.
20:31 Goro Majima moment
Me when I met Shadow Rise (if I can do it) in a Nutshell: I don't feel safe!
So. Takeaway; wildcard rise au
Damn, as a teen who found Rise kinda annoying at first, I really appreciate this video making me appreciate her character more, nice job!
If you want an example of "american idols", look at boy bands from the 90's like backstreet boys, nsync, and 98⁰ just to name a few.
Small correction Rise isn't from the country, she moved there with her grandma to try to be incognito during her hiatus
Honestly, a lot of the stuff that you claim to be different from the American music industry exist to a large extent. The unprofessional aspects of punk rock is a part of the appeal, and a lot of pop singers have their music written for them. It’s so not going to be exactly the same, because that’s just naturally how different cultures work, but it’s not like it’s in an entirely different league.
I wonder if a VTuber will be in the next Persona game
I know this is a stupid question, but is that your gameplay in the background?
Rise remind me a lot of Tanaka Reina.
I'm not an idol person. I'm a music hound. So I prefer the groups that put much more focus on creating polished music.
I do not want AKB48. I want Mary's Blood, Lovebites, Kalafina, and KOKIA.
Oh great now I have to go listen to Doo Wop again. Thanks!
The only idol group I have any affection for (and not entirely sure how much they count, since I'm not a huge fan or anything) is K/DA. I'm not even a League of Legends player (never even tried it), but their whole schtick is fun (and I've seen some really good A/GMVs with their music. Oh, unless Babymetal counts? They have the idol aesthetic, more or less, but I tend to assume they don't. Just not into music as much in general, especially when it comes to countries with more unique music scenes.