It’s pretty simple, Ohio states play calling had Marv on a lot of slants, quick cut routes, double move routes and let him create space and he did. Petzing for most of the season has had him pretty much vertical, we know he’s not got burner speed or go up and get it hands like Moss. He shines with the solid intangibles he’s built on his route running and release. We need either petzing to get him more in the short to intermediate game or fire Petzing.
Murray’s height limits the route concepts you can run. He can’t see over his line when sitting in the pocket. So those quick shallow routes are difficult for him and risk batted passes that can turn into interceptions. The shallow drag mhj ran against pats Murray had to wait until he was all the way on the other side of field before he could throw it. Murray has never thrown for 4k yards and 30 TDS what makes you think he can now?
@@gabriellemaudlin9145 had Russel Wilson’s height been an issue in his career? No. He’s 1 inch taller than Kyler Murray. Murray just a few years ago was mvp candidate before his season ending injury. He’s never come close to throwing for that yardage because he’s had consistently bad play calling and coaching.
@@gabriellemaudlin9145 it didnt affect the deep balls to wilson. Didnt impact the first several games where he threw deep to MHJ. Its scheme and targets. MHJ should be winning more of these contestable catches than he is. Its not all on murray man. He height isnt affecting his ability to throw down field, MHJ doesnt have his trust completely and isnt getting much seperation. Also Mcbride is murrays favorite target. If you have mcbride who is 90/10 going to come down with it, or MHJ deep who is less than 50% on 1v1, you would choose mcbride.
@@michaelonak3356 like I said in my actual take, Marv isn’t getting the separation because majority of his routes are gos, post corners and vertical routes, marv thrives with digs, slants, dig outs and crossers in zones, that’s why he thrived in Ohio because those were the majority routes he ran. He got separation then, in college he was never a deep ball go up and get it receiver
Absolutely! He was the incorrect pick during the draft, and still is the incorrect pick for this cardinals offense. This team demonstrated its lack of value placed on the X receiver position last year. This team is a run 1st offense that will continue to funnel its passing game through its TE’s & RB’s, and the outside WR’s are an afterthought. They would have been better served trading the pick and addressing other positions they value more.
He has had a good rookie year, but needs to get better. He's got to get his hands on those TD throws and take it away from CB's. That's what Fitzgerald did. I know he can and probably will get better.
He definitely will get better.. It's just overtime we as humans want to see immediate results. Remember when the NFL would draft QBs who learned the game and developed over their first couple seasons??. While riding the bench? That's completely gone away. These guys are the greatest players in the world..playing against the greatest players in the world.. for fuck sake give Marvin a break.. he'll be fine. And the draft was never and will never be a perfect science. Is he a special talent like Larry was? We don't know yet. Should we even compare him to Larry? No but we want results and if these guys don't produce the way we want we throw then under the damn bus. Marvin is doing great so far with stats very similar if not better than Larry's rookie season. Just sayin. He played 13 games in the NFL THIRTEEN. When did Arizona cardinals fans become so damn critical? Let him play..and let him earn his stripes .
It’s not all petzing. Kyler’s height limits what route concepts they can run from the pocket. This is a run first offense with dink and dunk passing. Kyler has never thrown for 4k yards or had 30 tds what makes you think he can now in year 6?
Play calling has been bad but Marv has been given a bunch of 1 on 1 opportunities and he hasn’t been good with them. He’s not good in contested situations nor does he separate well. Just by watching him this season, I don’t see anything generational about him. Brian Thomas, Nabers and Ladd all look better than him right now. Hopefully he can lock in and improve next year
He is the right pick. Play calling needs to be better and he needs to be better. Only so much u can do when ur OC runs it on 3and6 inside the 20 to play for a field goal. He will get better but idk if the play calling will. Petzing needs to go.
This is not about MHJ's skillset it is 100% about the Cardinals' type of offense. We dont need a superstar WR we just need a good #1 WR BECAUSE they are a run first offense.
@@rickcobia6442 yeah and I don’t think Petzings one minded play calling has been working. When cardinals ran more air raid style schemes with D Hop, Kyler balled out, we have a good running game to lean on, let Kyler throw the ball and give MHJ more intermediate and short routes with double moves and quick releases rather than just go routes and corner posts and watch MHJ and Kyler thrive
@@wizaaard3028how do you know that? Can you recall 20 years ago and how many dropped balls Larry had? And what's your definition of dropped? If a defensive player knocks the ball out of your hand its not a,drop. Right? A drop is when the ball is in yiur hands. And no obstruction caused yiu to drop the ball other than yourself. To say " way" more is just you assuming because Larry rarely ever dropped the ball. So that's what we got accustomed to. " way" more. How many actual dropped passes do you think Marvin has had? You can count that number on one hand.
I hear alot of this on Murray's height, and Petzing. Its mostly on the WR coach and MHJ. He needs to be better than less than 50% on 1v1 or contested catches. If youre murray you dont have all the trust you have in mhj as you do in mcbride and michael wilson. MHJ sometimes looks lost. There were some slant plays in the last game where he got some YAC and made some moves but disappeared after that. More slants for him, more quick cuts and shoot for him in the middle of field. That will give more catches, higher confidence and give mcbride and wilson more chances to make moves. MHJ also needs to start coming back to the ball when murray starts scrambling.
Marvin Harrison Sr "Hall of Fame" rookie year: 1996, 16 games, 64 rec, 836 yds, 8tds 1997: 16 games, 73 rec, 866 yards, 6 tds 1998 12 games 59 rec, 776 yds, 7 tds 1999: 16 games, 115 rec, 1663 yards, 12 Tds Is marvin Harrison Jr behind or are we comparing him to the new players who had historical starts to their careers??? Is marv bing used correctly? Marv has to eat teams #1 Corner consistently which he has shown he can.. Ramsey, Dj reed, trey white.
Jerry rice Rookie stats with a Super Bowl QB was 49 Rec 927 Rec Yards 4 Rec TD’s Larry Fitz Rookie stats 59 Rec 780 Yards 8 Rec TD’s Marv “so far” 47 Rec 687 Rec Yard 7 Rec TD’s! Totes chill out dude!
People criticize him but he’s on par with a legend that is Larry Fitzgerald his first year. Yeah he ideally needs to be better on contested catches and holding on but I’m more than happy with where he’s at and we will only help him improve.
Nothing against mhj but I would have taken Brock Bowers. Great wide receivers aren't exactly rare. Possibly the best tight end of all time. that's rare. And having two of the top five tight ends in the league would have been a nightmare for defenses. And of course I can still remember David Boston.
Yes Harrison was a bad pick. Not only because he hasn't lived up to the hype, but maybe more importantly if you are going to be a run first team fixing the defense made more sense. If Ossenfort traded with the Vikings you could have Jared Verse, Quinyon Mitchell, Xavier Worthy, and Johnny Newton with your 1st 4 picks.
Look at the real numbers not what you think is best for judgement okay. 2 of the 3 greatest Receivers of ALL TIME’s numbers weren’t the be there rookie year give it time.
@@davidgough8599 you don’t know ball or haven’t watched his college tape. Even in the rams game he showed elite knowledge of where the zones were and found the gaps
@@jonspirationI personally watched all of MHJ's film pre-draft and came away unconvinced that he was a guaranteed pro bowler from year 1. Many of his yards and big plays were busted coverage - against top CBs, he struggled (see Max Melton). If he adapts to the NFL defenses and CBs, he can be a DHop or Art Monk, but he must adapt. I hope it's DHop. I said last week that I hadn't seen MHJ run many crossing routes. He finally got one this week. He was drafted to beat man coverage on the regular, but he's not there yet.
@@davidgough8599 David Boston was a stud in 00 and 01.. but then all of a sudden my man was so juiced up . His arms were huge and got in the way of his hands catching the ball.. haha forreal.
Unfortunately this is looking to be true. Kyler has shown us flashes of greatness, but after 6 years I think we are seeing they are only flashes and that is all they will ever be.
It’s pretty simple, Ohio states play calling had Marv on a lot of slants, quick cut routes, double move routes and let him create space and he did. Petzing for most of the season has had him pretty much vertical, we know he’s not got burner speed or go up and get it hands like Moss. He shines with the solid intangibles he’s built on his route running and release. We need either petzing to get him more in the short to intermediate game or fire Petzing.
👆Great summary of MHJ and the current situation imo, thanks for this
Murray’s height limits the route concepts you can run. He can’t see over his line when sitting in the pocket. So those quick shallow routes are difficult for him and risk batted passes that can turn into interceptions. The shallow drag mhj ran against pats Murray had to wait until he was all the way on the other side of field before he could throw it. Murray has never thrown for 4k yards and 30 TDS what makes you think he can now?
@@gabriellemaudlin9145 had Russel Wilson’s height been an issue in his career? No. He’s 1 inch taller than Kyler Murray. Murray just a few years ago was mvp candidate before his season ending injury. He’s never come close to throwing for that yardage because he’s had consistently bad play calling and coaching.
@@gabriellemaudlin9145 it didnt affect the deep balls to wilson. Didnt impact the first several games where he threw deep to MHJ. Its scheme and targets. MHJ should be winning more of these contestable catches than he is. Its not all on murray man. He height isnt affecting his ability to throw down field, MHJ doesnt have his trust completely and isnt getting much seperation. Also Mcbride is murrays favorite target. If you have mcbride who is 90/10 going to come down with it, or MHJ deep who is less than 50% on 1v1, you would choose mcbride.
@@michaelonak3356 like I said in my actual take, Marv isn’t getting the separation because majority of his routes are gos, post corners and vertical routes, marv thrives with digs, slants, dig outs and crossers in zones, that’s why he thrived in Ohio because those were the majority routes he ran. He got separation then, in college he was never a deep ball go up and get it receiver
With Petzing. Yes.
With a coordinator that may actually attempt to develop MHJ and the connection between him and Kyler, no.
Play calling for him is bad
Absolutely! He was the incorrect pick during the draft, and still is the incorrect pick for this cardinals offense. This team demonstrated its lack of value placed on the X receiver position last year. This team is a run 1st offense that will continue to funnel its passing game through its TE’s & RB’s, and the outside WR’s are an afterthought. They would have been better served trading the pick and addressing other positions they value more.
He has had a good rookie year, but needs to get better. He's got to get his hands on those TD throws and take it away from CB's. That's what Fitzgerald did. I know he can and probably will get better.
He definitely will get better.. It's just overtime we as humans want to see immediate results. Remember when the NFL would draft QBs who learned the game and developed over their first couple seasons??. While riding the bench? That's completely gone away. These guys are the greatest players in the world..playing against the greatest players in the world.. for fuck sake give Marvin a break.. he'll be fine. And the draft was never and will never be a perfect science. Is he a special talent like Larry was? We don't know yet. Should we even compare him to Larry? No but we want results and if these guys don't produce the way we want we throw then under the damn bus. Marvin is doing great so far with stats very similar if not better than Larry's rookie season. Just sayin. He played 13 games in the NFL THIRTEEN. When did Arizona cardinals fans become so damn critical? Let him play..and let him earn his stripes .
Fire petzing.
@@brandk3 agreed
Agreed
It’s not all petzing. Kyler’s height limits what route concepts they can run from the pocket. This is a run first offense with dink and dunk passing. Kyler has never thrown for 4k yards or had 30 tds what makes you think he can now in year 6?
Mhjr needs to help kyler besides route running
Play calling has been bad but Marv has been given a bunch of 1 on 1 opportunities and he hasn’t been good with them. He’s not good in contested situations nor does he separate well.
Just by watching him this season, I don’t see anything generational about him.
Brian Thomas, Nabers and Ladd all look better than him right now. Hopefully he can lock in and improve next year
He is the right pick. Play calling needs to be better and he needs to be better. Only so much u can do when ur OC runs it on 3and6 inside the 20 to play for a field goal. He will get better but idk if the play calling will. Petzing needs to go.
Fire Petzing!!!!!!
This is not about MHJ's skillset it is 100% about the Cardinals' type of offense. We dont need a superstar WR we just need a good #1 WR BECAUSE they are a run first offense.
@@rickcobia6442 yeah and I don’t think Petzings one minded play calling has been working. When cardinals ran more air raid style schemes with D Hop, Kyler balled out, we have a good running game to lean on, let Kyler throw the ball and give MHJ more intermediate and short routes with double moves and quick releases rather than just go routes and corner posts and watch MHJ and Kyler thrive
Can he just have a rookie season
Thank you
No...next question
Yep
He needs to learn a few things like pass interference and also reach for the ball on contested catches
Compare his rookie year to Fitz. He's on track to better Fitzgerald's 1st year.
He's gotta better qb then Fitz had but he's had waaay more drops then Fitz too
That might be but he will never be a Fitz!!
@@wizaaard3028how do you know that? Can you recall 20 years ago and how many dropped balls Larry had? And what's your definition of dropped? If a defensive player knocks the ball out of your hand its not a,drop. Right? A drop is when the ball is in yiur hands. And no obstruction caused yiu to drop the ball other than yourself. To say " way" more is just you assuming because Larry rarely ever dropped the ball. So that's what we got accustomed to. " way" more. How many actual dropped passes do you think Marvin has had? You can count that number on one hand.
I hear alot of this on Murray's height, and Petzing. Its mostly on the WR coach and MHJ. He needs to be better than less than 50% on 1v1 or contested catches. If youre murray you dont have all the trust you have in mhj as you do in mcbride and michael wilson. MHJ sometimes looks lost. There were some slant plays in the last game where he got some YAC and made some moves but disappeared after that. More slants for him, more quick cuts and shoot for him in the middle of field. That will give more catches, higher confidence and give mcbride and wilson more chances to make moves. MHJ also needs to start coming back to the ball when murray starts scrambling.
Marvin Harrison Sr "Hall of Fame"
rookie year:
1996, 16 games, 64 rec, 836 yds, 8tds
1997: 16 games, 73 rec, 866 yards, 6 tds
1998 12 games 59 rec, 776 yds, 7 tds
1999: 16 games, 115 rec, 1663 yards, 12 Tds
Is marvin Harrison Jr behind or are we comparing him to the new players who had historical starts to their careers???
Is marv bing used correctly?
Marv has to eat teams #1 Corner consistently which he has shown he can.. Ramsey, Dj reed, trey white.
Kyler has thrown into MHJ chest many times, K1 needs to throw it high, let MHJ use his height and out jump defenders. Those two need more chemistry.
Jerry rice Rookie stats with a Super Bowl QB was
49 Rec
927 Rec Yards
4 Rec TD’s
Larry Fitz Rookie stats
59 Rec
780 Yards
8 Rec TD’s
Marv “so far”
47 Rec
687 Rec Yard
7 Rec TD’s! Totes chill out dude!
People criticize him but he’s on par with a legend that is Larry Fitzgerald his first year. Yeah he ideally needs to be better on contested catches and holding on but I’m more than happy with where he’s at and we will only help him improve.
Id take Josh McCown .that kid was big..and tough and gave 200 percent every time he stepped on the field.
Nothing against mhj but I would have taken Brock Bowers.
Great wide receivers aren't exactly rare.
Possibly the best tight end of all time. that's rare.
And having two of the top five tight ends in the league would have been a nightmare for defenses.
And of course I can still remember David Boston.
Caleb williams is bust not mhjr
Everyone is just overanalyzing at this point. It’s simple, Kyler Murray has been awful in the passing game and play calling is bad.
K1 needs to get out of pocket to see him
except when he drops a dime in his hands in the corner of the end zone seems he’s unable to make contested catches
Yes Harrison was a bad pick. Not only because he hasn't lived up to the hype, but maybe more importantly if you are going to be a run first team fixing the defense made more sense. If Ossenfort traded with the Vikings you could have Jared Verse, Quinyon Mitchell, Xavier Worthy, and Johnny Newton with your 1st 4 picks.
He’s the wrong pick because of the offense they run!
Look at the real numbers not what you think is best for judgement okay. 2 of the 3 greatest Receivers of ALL TIME’s numbers weren’t the be there rookie year give it time.
Been saying it from day one MHJ is a below-average NFL receiver. David Boston 2.0
@@davidgough8599 you don’t know ball or haven’t watched his college tape. Even in the rams game he showed elite knowledge of where the zones were and found the gaps
@@jonspirationI personally watched all of MHJ's film pre-draft and came away unconvinced that he was a guaranteed pro bowler from year 1. Many of his yards and big plays were busted coverage - against top CBs, he struggled (see Max Melton). If he adapts to the NFL defenses and CBs, he can be a DHop or Art Monk, but he must adapt. I hope it's DHop. I said last week that I hadn't seen MHJ run many crossing routes. He finally got one this week. He was drafted to beat man coverage on the regular, but he's not there yet.
@@DarrenLewis-w5owatched all of his film..hahha wow you must have nothing else to do.
@ it really doesn't take that long
@@davidgough8599 David Boston was a stud in 00 and 01.. but then all of a sudden my man was so juiced up
. His arms were huge and got in the way of his hands catching the ball.. haha forreal.
Stupid convo. Stupid headline. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
The biggest mistake was drafting Kyler Murray, these Kyler fans are unhinged blaming everyone but Kyler, KYLER IS THE PROBLEM HE NEEDS TO GO
Unfortunately this is looking to be true. Kyler has shown us flashes of greatness, but after 6 years I think we are seeing they are only flashes and that is all they will ever be.
K1 has an incredible skill set.
Unfortunately he's just not tall enough.
Nothing personal but I think a QB in the NFL has to be at least 6'2"
@@hammerdon1962 eh, that's not the reason. he can still see just fine over the lineman. Source -- under 6ft and played D1 QB
@@Guythatsometimescommentsanother source, his high completion percentage over the middle.
No kyler was. Just get a quarter back that can see over line. Harrison jr is open alot.