it's entirely on OC Drew Petzing. Runs him on straight 9s, doesnt give him anything short or medium where he dominated in college, and he calls a scared run first offense that does not let Kyler deal like he did against Miami. Need a new OC asap then we can evaluate Kyler.
Agreed! The offense is ridiculously watered down and passive. If we were gonna do this "run first all the time" bull crap, then we should've just drafted Joe Alt and called it a day. But to be fair, I can't completely ignore that Marv needs to hit the weight room, get stronger, and build some more explosion. He's not winning the 50/50 balls as often as he's supposed to. His athleticism doesn't hold up against NFL corners like it did at the college level. If he put in the work, I still believe he can become a Davante Adams type guy.
No, it’s on people overlooking flaws in both QB play and technical flaws that Marvin has to work thru. The combination of Kyler hero ball and Technical lapses he must work thru to live up to the potential people wish casted for him. His father also had catch point issues. If you watch how his father catches it is not technically a good way to consistently make catches and he made that work but modern nfl that’s just not acceptable. Situation where jr. ended up was important and people overlooked it because he must build the chemistry with a QB who isn’t as predictable moment to moment. Flaws of his were overlooked because of his name but when a young player has to work thru all these various things it’s going to slow down the output. He’ll be good just gunna take a bit more time. And TBH some of us( me included) were saying this from the jump as soon as it was Arizona who drafted him.
@@NMxCrazySkillsHopkins had a solid year in 2020 with Kyler before the injuries and the PED suspension. McBride is a top 3 TE moving forward with him. Would argue it’s 60% the OC, 20% Kyler, and 20% Marv
It seems like they’re trying to utilize him like this, Randy moss / Calvin Johnson kind of receiver. And while at 6,3, 6,4 give or take, and having that archetype. Those are generational receivers seen once every like 3 eras. And so like all receivers he requires help. He cannot tear a defense apart, alone.
I dream of the Cardinals using Marv similar to how the Rams use Puka. They never manufacture touches for Marv. The Cardinals are a run focused and short area passing style of team, and I'm seeing Marv used as practically a decoy that is opening up space for underneath routes to players like McBride. I can't necessarily blame Kyler because he was able to produce when he had DHop but I do think that Marv and Kyler are not a perfect match. Scheme is a major issue however, and I don't understand how you draft a player 4th overall and don't create an offence that caters to Marvs abilities. Great analysis and much respect!
@@kylestoeger7470 Cannot agree more about spending the 4th overall pick on a player to not get the most out of him. I get that he isn't the twitchy, elite short-area agility guy that you scheme screens and rub routes for constantly, but the offense would be more potent if they gave him the ball more. He's having a fine season (we've all been spoiled by Puka, Chase, etc.), but he could be having a fantastic season stats-wise if they didn't restrict his usage in the offense. The film doesn't lie though - he's every bit of the stud we thought he would be coming out of Ohio State. 🔥
@@TheFantasyFootballStrategist i think the fact that the cardinals are in a rebuild first yr and there overachieving from where they should be i think next year will be even better
Great video. We're pretty much in lockstep on MHJr. While we know he's exactly what we wanted, the question is what if this usage doesn't change? I hope the Cardinals get a little creative with him next year.
(As a cards fan) Here’s the thing with Marv. He’s got the routes of a 5’10 guy, the problem is HE’S PASSIVE! If you watch him his Jr. year with stroud he was attacking the ball at its highest point, ripping the ball from guys, and playing to his frame. Now there’s just too much finesse and not enough physicality and tenacity. He lets just about everything into his body and doesn’t come back to the ball. He’s a seriously talented player, but ever since his senior year he has just let too many balls “fall in his lap” almost like he’s afraid of dropping it even though he’s proven he has good hands and no history of serious drops? Just a weird thing I’ve noticed and there’s definitely a disconnect when it comes to winning vertically with separation. He will figure it out, but I’m definitely in the company of thinking he’s more of a Dk Metcalf production guy than an elite wr1. Just think things have to change drastically to get into that category and ultimately the speed and explosiveness just isn’t there. Love the kid and hope he blossoms into the player we all hoped for.
This just feels like another JSN situation. JSN was misused last year (low aDOT) and uninspiring. If they adjust MHJs usage, as they have with JSN, he could have the second year breakout.
This discussion and how people discussed MHJ before the draft are very different. People spoke like he was gonna be Ja’Marr Chase… But if great if he’s Tee Higgins.
Your breakdown is pin point accurate! Sometimes its just not on the player when the usage is just not good on a team. JSN had struggles last season when he was basically just used on short routes and screens and Grubb let him loose this year. AJB this season in philly is another example compared to the route trees of other WR1s in the league like Chase or Jettas. His route tree is just so basic and uninspired. No motions, no slot fades, no intermediate usage. Marv is just fine and labeling him as a bust when he hasnt even played three full seasons in the league ist just ridiculous. Just shows that people should temper expectations, give those kids some time and also look at the bigger picture, that its not on the player when production doesnt come immediately. I would still take him 1.01 again in 1QB rookie drafts, since talent usually always plays out.
@@xDSDSDSx Absolutely agree and people are way too quick to change their pre and post-draft rankings. I personally liked and still like Nabers more, but MHJ could absolutely end up as the better asset in fantasy football and is going to be a dominant X receiver for 10+ years if he stays healthy. What a draft class!
@TheFantasyFootballStrategist Totally agree! Odunze is another good example here! Btw, I just subbed since I really like your style of breakdown and the way you put everything in perspective with data AND film! Would love to see guys like Jalen Coker or Brock Bowers next! Regards from Germany! 🇩🇪
@@xDSDSDSx Rome is going to be an absolute stud and is soooo smooth. Many people have asked about Coker, so he'll absolutely be included in next week's slate of videos. Will also make one regarding Rome in the near future. Thanks!
@@anthonyciampa2520 Lamb played 93.2, 39.8, 62.7 and 58.6% of his routes from the slot in his previous seasons, so not really. MHJ is more of an X than a slot like Lamb. 🔥
He’s def not cooked but let’s not act like wr 49 in ppg is anything but a rough first season for someone picked where he was. Your points might be true but will that change?
Look, Murray is a GOOD QB overall but not a GREAT one... that being said, the OC is doing neither of them favors. Murray should look like a GREAT QB with MHJ on the field in the right scheme, just like he did for the for the first half of seasons with Kingsbury calling plays for him and Deandre Hopkins. Despite the scheme issues, he is still producing which is huge. Cardinals should replace the OC and then evaluate if they want to keep Murray in their future.
Cardinals/LSU fan here. I can not tell you how pissed I was that we did not draft Nabers. The media fooled 99% of people into not believing their own eyes. They convinced people that Marv's "flawless technicality" was superior to Nabers' great WR skills + elite athleticism. But what pisses me off most is that Marv plays with no edge, no chip on his shoulder...nothing. He hasn't won a 50/50 ball all freakin' season and he gets little to no YAC. While I am disappointed in Marv at the moment, I still think he can be an All-Pro caliber WR, just not right now. First and foremost, he needs to hit the weight room, get stronger, and build a bit more explosion. He also needs to learn how to trust his hands and stop being such a body catcher. I think he profiles similarly to Davante Adams, who's not an elite athlete, but manages to be a top level WR. But remember, Adams didn't become an elite WR until like year 4.
I agree. Nabers has the "it" factor like Jamarr. Marv is more of a JJettas type player, whereas Nabers comps more to Chase. Obviously, not trying to compare the two 1 for 1 but in general, that's the vibe I get. I will say though, the cards getting Nabers would've made no difference... they'd miss use him just like they are with Marv... if the cards can get a new OC that makes it a priority to get him the ball like Puka in LA, he'll blow up
if we had nabers it would be literally the same thing reversed. people would be saying we should've got Marv. at the end of the day it dosent matter what nabers got if all he's given is 3 and long jumpballs
@@michaelstearns8505Clearly explained myself in my previous comments. Guess you don't possess the mental capacity to read. Don't bother responding. Peace!
@@faser3000 Oh, absolutely. Nabers had no reason to and neither did Rome, but they both knew they would do well. I still love MHJ and he's going to be a good player, but I liked Nabers more because of his versatility and superior athletic profile. I think the Cards could be much better with Nabers because he can fill the exact role of MHJ (vertical X), but is the superior deep threat. While MHJ wins in body control and the technicalities of route running, Nabers is too dominant of an athlete for it to even matter.
@ yeah, you’re right. The jury is still out, but so far he’s been looking like the 5th best wr from this year class, which is dissappointing considering MJH was labelled as the most polished from the bunch.
I think it is a little bit of everything. Scheme, Kyler, and he was a bit over-rated too. MHJ does not have elite speed or quickness, which I think is one reason he doesn't see more short-yardage targets. Short-yardage targets tend to go to receivers with more burst. MHJ has elite footwork, hips, and is a great route technician, and great hands and instincts. I think with better schemes, better QB, and more experience, he can develop into a DeAndre Hopkins like X reciever. However, we all know now why he did not run the 40 at the combine or at his Pro Day. So he will never be the prospect many thought he would be without elite speed.
What is the point of throwing give me routes to a player who is below average after the catch? Here's a secret. If you wanted Malik Nabors, you should have drafted Malik Nabors, not drafting Marv expecting him to be Malik. That is why we evaluate prospects.
@@aronherbert5916 I think the offense could be even more potent if they gave MHJ more give me routes than they do, but yes one of his best attributes is being able to be the vertical X that can win on the routes he runs, and he's already proving to be one of the better man-beating wide receivers in the NFL. I think they should have taken Nabers though, personally.
Reality is he can’t dominate every route in the route tree because he doesn’t have the athleticism to make them work. If scheming him open led to team wins they would do it but clearly they don’t think so
@@Rock_em.sock_em They would have a more dynamic player with more positonal versatility at the least. I was Nabers>MHJ, but they are entirely different players. The max upside of Nabers is easily being the best WR in the league (IMO), but MHJ was (IMO) the safest floor guy because he was so technically sound in everything he does. I prefer max upside over safety, personally. Nabers is in a different stratosphere as an athlete.
@ good stuff! I don’t watch college football myself so I don’t learn about players until draft season. With that said, by draft time I definitely felt like MHJ was good but getting a nepo bump. Seemed like he would probably be the 3rd or 4th best WR and Nabers was clearly the best WR in the nation. We’ll see where they end up when it’s all said and done. Appreciate the channel and the deep dives you do on these players!
You can’t teach the YAC skills that Nabers has. It’s explosive suddenness. Low center of gravity to dig out extra yards and general feel to evade defenders. Players that have those skills are the ones you want to scheme open
it's entirely on OC Drew Petzing. Runs him on straight 9s, doesnt give him anything short or medium where he dominated in college, and he calls a scared run first offense that does not let Kyler deal like he did against Miami. Need a new OC asap then we can evaluate Kyler.
Agreed! The offense is ridiculously watered down and passive. If we were gonna do this "run first all the time" bull crap, then we should've just drafted Joe Alt and called it a day.
But to be fair, I can't completely ignore that Marv needs to hit the weight room, get stronger, and build some more explosion. He's not winning the 50/50 balls as often as he's supposed to. His athleticism doesn't hold up against NFL corners like it did at the college level. If he put in the work, I still believe he can become a Davante Adams type guy.
Any of it go on Kyler? Kyler has never produced major fantasy production for his pass catchers…
No, it’s on people overlooking flaws in both QB play and technical flaws that Marvin has to work thru. The combination of Kyler hero ball and Technical lapses he must work thru to live up to the potential people wish casted for him. His father also had catch point issues. If you watch how his father catches it is not technically a good way to consistently make catches and he made that work but modern nfl that’s just not acceptable. Situation where jr. ended up was important and people overlooked it because he must build the chemistry with a QB who isn’t as predictable moment to moment.
Flaws of his were overlooked because of his name but when a young player has to work thru all these various things it’s going to slow down the output. He’ll be good just gunna take a bit more time. And TBH some of us( me included) were saying this from the jump as soon as it was Arizona who drafted him.
@@NMxCrazySkills Hopkins
@@NMxCrazySkillsHopkins had a solid year in 2020 with Kyler before the injuries and the PED suspension. McBride is a top 3 TE moving forward with him. Would argue it’s 60% the OC, 20% Kyler, and 20% Marv
They really spent a 4th overall pick on an elite receiver then use him like Marquez Valdez Scantling 😭😭
Hes a rookie on pace for 900+yd and 9+ 10 TDs. Thats incredibly good for a rookie with an average QB😊
Yea and a mid OC
It seems like they’re trying to utilize him like this, Randy moss / Calvin Johnson kind of receiver.
And while at 6,3, 6,4 give or take, and having that archetype. Those are generational receivers seen once every like 3 eras. And so like all receivers he requires help. He cannot tear a defense apart, alone.
Great stuff man! Would love some videos on Jayden Reed and his current confusion situation as well as Jalen Coker!!
@@Crimsonshinn I second this
I dream of the Cardinals using Marv similar to how the Rams use Puka. They never manufacture touches for Marv. The Cardinals are a run focused and short area passing style of team, and I'm seeing Marv used as practically a decoy that is opening up space for underneath routes to players like McBride. I can't necessarily blame Kyler because he was able to produce when he had DHop but I do think that Marv and Kyler are not a perfect match. Scheme is a major issue however, and I don't understand how you draft a player 4th overall and don't create an offence that caters to Marvs abilities. Great analysis and much respect!
@@kylestoeger7470 Cannot agree more about spending the 4th overall pick on a player to not get the most out of him. I get that he isn't the twitchy, elite short-area agility guy that you scheme screens and rub routes for constantly, but the offense would be more potent if they gave him the ball more. He's having a fine season (we've all been spoiled by Puka, Chase, etc.), but he could be having a fantastic season stats-wise if they didn't restrict his usage in the offense. The film doesn't lie though - he's every bit of the stud we thought he would be coming out of Ohio State. 🔥
@@TheFantasyFootballStrategist i think the fact that the cardinals are in a rebuild first yr and there overachieving from where they should be i think next year will be even better
Great video. We're pretty much in lockstep on MHJr. While we know he's exactly what we wanted, the question is what if this usage doesn't change? I hope the Cardinals get a little creative with him next year.
Nice video. Keep making videos, you deserve 100k more followers
(As a cards fan) Here’s the thing with Marv. He’s got the routes of a 5’10 guy, the problem is HE’S PASSIVE! If you watch him his Jr. year with stroud he was attacking the ball at its highest point, ripping the ball from guys, and playing to his frame. Now there’s just too much finesse and not enough physicality and tenacity. He lets just about everything into his body and doesn’t come back to the ball. He’s a seriously talented player, but ever since his senior year he has just let too many balls “fall in his lap” almost like he’s afraid of dropping it even though he’s proven he has good hands and no history of serious drops? Just a weird thing I’ve noticed and there’s definitely a disconnect when it comes to winning vertically with separation. He will figure it out, but I’m definitely in the company of thinking he’s more of a Dk Metcalf production guy than an elite wr1. Just think things have to change drastically to get into that category and ultimately the speed and explosiveness just isn’t there. Love the kid and hope he blossoms into the player we all hoped for.
great research and video man good luck with the content
This just feels like another JSN situation. JSN was misused last year (low aDOT) and uninspiring. If they adjust MHJs usage, as they have with JSN, he could have the second year breakout.
Drafted him 1st last year
Love this breakdown
great job !❤
Awesome vid and breakdown; relieved that we are seeing the same things, and it's not just copium on my end lol
@mjhammer22894 Definitely not copium! It is nice to think we weren't ALL wrong about him in regards to our pre-draft valuations of him. 🔥
Congrats on another great analysis AND hitting 1k subs
Great content bro
I've been wondering if it's him or the usage. Thanks bro
trade murray get a taller qb that can see over the d line
Can we get a video on Rome/Ladd? Love the content keep it up
Ladd please! 🙏
This discussion and how people discussed MHJ before the draft are very different.
People spoke like he was gonna be Ja’Marr Chase…
But if great if he’s Tee Higgins.
Your breakdown is pin point accurate!
Sometimes its just not on the player when the usage is just not good on a team. JSN had struggles last season when he was basically just used on short routes and screens and Grubb let him loose this year. AJB this season in philly is another example compared to the route trees of other WR1s in the league like Chase or Jettas. His route tree is just so basic and uninspired. No motions, no slot fades, no intermediate usage.
Marv is just fine and labeling him as a bust when he hasnt even played three full seasons in the league ist just ridiculous. Just shows that people should temper expectations, give those kids some time and also look at the bigger picture, that its not on the player when production doesnt come immediately.
I would still take him 1.01 again in 1QB rookie drafts, since talent usually always plays out.
@@xDSDSDSx Absolutely agree and people are way too quick to change their pre and post-draft rankings. I personally liked and still like Nabers more, but MHJ could absolutely end up as the better asset in fantasy football and is going to be a dominant X receiver for 10+ years if he stays healthy. What a draft class!
@TheFantasyFootballStrategist Totally agree! Odunze is another good example here!
Btw, I just subbed since I really like your style of breakdown and the way you put everything in perspective with data AND film!
Would love to see guys like Jalen Coker or Brock Bowers next! Regards from Germany! 🇩🇪
@@xDSDSDSx Rome is going to be an absolute stud and is soooo smooth. Many people have asked about Coker, so he'll absolutely be included in next week's slate of videos. Will also make one regarding Rome in the near future. Thanks!
great vid
It’s pretty much Drew Petzings weak passing scheme
Is mhj being used similarly to ceedee in his first couple years?
@@anthonyciampa2520 Lamb played 93.2, 39.8, 62.7 and 58.6% of his routes from the slot in his previous seasons, so not really. MHJ is more of an X than a slot like Lamb. 🔥
How do we feel about FF playoffs week 15
@@francismanuel2551 Risky, but he did receive 12 and 8 targets the past two weeks. I do worry that he gets locked up by Witherspoon and Woolen.
@ he’s playing New England ! Would Christian Gonzalez be on him all night ? Would you flex MHJ or Bucky if he plays
@@francismanuel2551 LMAO I looked at Sleeper and it was set to week 14. Yeah, Gonzalez is a tough matchup. I'd absolutely start Bucky over MHJ.
He’s def not cooked but let’s not act like wr 49 in ppg is anything but a rough first season for someone picked where he was. Your points might be true but will that change?
They play him like Moss buts he's really Jerry Rice I blame the OC
Look, Murray is a GOOD QB overall but not a GREAT one... that being said, the OC is doing neither of them favors. Murray should look like a GREAT QB with MHJ on the field in the right scheme, just like he did for the for the first half of seasons with Kingsbury calling plays for him and Deandre Hopkins. Despite the scheme issues, he is still producing which is huge. Cardinals should replace the OC and then evaluate if they want to keep Murray in their future.
Bad Qb and bad OC is the issue
Nabors has same…
He tries to catch everything with his body. He runs at half speed. OC isnt making it easy on him either. 😊
Top tier glazer
I told everyone that Malik was better, but no one listened
@@SethAdams-t7k Thought the same. Both are going to be great though, Marvin is being hurt by scheming mostly. Nabers is just better, though. 🔥
Cardinals/LSU fan here. I can not tell you how pissed I was that we did not draft Nabers. The media fooled 99% of people into not believing their own eyes. They convinced people that Marv's "flawless technicality" was superior to Nabers' great WR skills + elite athleticism. But what pisses me off most is that Marv plays with no edge, no chip on his shoulder...nothing. He hasn't won a 50/50 ball all freakin' season and he gets little to no YAC.
While I am disappointed in Marv at the moment, I still think he can be an All-Pro caliber WR, just not right now. First and foremost, he needs to hit the weight room, get stronger, and build a bit more explosion. He also needs to learn how to trust his hands and stop being such a body catcher. I think he profiles similarly to Davante Adams, who's not an elite athlete, but manages to be a top level WR. But remember, Adams didn't become an elite WR until like year 4.
I agree. Nabers has the "it" factor like Jamarr. Marv is more of a JJettas type player, whereas Nabers comps more to Chase. Obviously, not trying to compare the two 1 for 1 but in general, that's the vibe I get. I will say though, the cards getting Nabers would've made no difference... they'd miss use him just like they are with Marv... if the cards can get a new OC that makes it a priority to get him the ball like Puka in LA, he'll blow up
if we had nabers it would be literally the same thing reversed. people would be saying we should've got Marv. at the end of the day it dosent matter what nabers got if all he's given is 3 and long jumpballs
@@sirhcsmt Nabers can run routes, win jump balls, and get hella YAC. Just shut up.
@@Brian-fk8zrwow you certainly made your point telling someone to “shut up”. Excellent football analysis right there.
@@michaelstearns8505Clearly explained myself in my previous comments. Guess you don't possess the mental capacity to read. Don't bother responding. Peace!
Mid is an overreaction. He’s just not Chase or Jefferson level. And that’s basically what everyone thought he’d be
@@jonasb6440 Yeah, he's been MUCH better than his counting stats suggest.
Idk man, he just appears so slow. There is reason, why he did not run the 40.
@@faser3000 Oh, absolutely. Nabers had no reason to and neither did Rome, but they both knew they would do well. I still love MHJ and he's going to be a good player, but I liked Nabers more because of his versatility and superior athletic profile. I think the Cards could be much better with Nabers because he can fill the exact role of MHJ (vertical X), but is the superior deep threat. While MHJ wins in body control and the technicalities of route running, Nabers is too dominant of an athlete for it to even matter.
@ yeah, you’re right. The jury is still out, but so far he’s been looking like the 5th best wr from this year class, which is dissappointing considering MJH was labelled as the most polished from the bunch.
He was clocked in over 21 mph and even 22 mph multiple times in college. He's fast, he just takes long strides.
I think it is a little bit of everything. Scheme, Kyler, and he was a bit over-rated too.
MHJ does not have elite speed or quickness, which I think is one reason he doesn't see more short-yardage targets.
Short-yardage targets tend to go to receivers with more burst.
MHJ has elite footwork, hips, and is a great route technician, and great hands and instincts.
I think with better schemes, better QB, and more experience, he can develop into a DeAndre Hopkins like X reciever.
However, we all know now why he did not run the 40 at the combine or at his Pro Day. So he will never be the prospect many thought he would be without elite speed.
Nabors>MHJ
Trade him to the pats. Pair him with Maye.
simms been saying this
Shit teams are going to shit. His usage is the reason they are 7-7 probably going to to finish 2 games under 3rd in the division
BTJ BETTER
Maybe because his QB is smaller than my 2 year old nephew and can't see over the O line. Brees was the last true Short King QB.
Leek better
Kyler and the offense is mid.
He always been overrated af. He’s a tee Higgins not a megatron
A #4 pick generational talent is not drafted to run “give me” routes.
What is the point of throwing give me routes to a player who is below average after the catch? Here's a secret. If you wanted Malik Nabors, you should have drafted Malik Nabors, not drafting Marv expecting him to be Malik. That is why we evaluate prospects.
@@aronherbert5916 I think the offense could be even more potent if they gave MHJ more give me routes than they do, but yes one of his best attributes is being able to be the vertical X that can win on the routes he runs, and he's already proving to be one of the better man-beating wide receivers in the NFL. I think they should have taken Nabers though, personally.
Reality is he can’t dominate every route in the route tree because he doesn’t have the athleticism to make them work. If scheming him open led to team wins they would do it but clearly they don’t think so
Kinda dumb to pick a guy 4th overall then.
@@davuhn2I’m not a cards fan but I wonder how much better they’d be if they picked Nabers instead
@@Rock_em.sock_em They would have a more dynamic player with more positonal versatility at the least. I was Nabers>MHJ, but they are entirely different players. The max upside of Nabers is easily being the best WR in the league (IMO), but MHJ was (IMO) the safest floor guy because he was so technically sound in everything he does. I prefer max upside over safety, personally. Nabers is in a different stratosphere as an athlete.
@ good stuff! I don’t watch college football myself so I don’t learn about players until draft season. With that said, by draft time I definitely felt like MHJ was good but getting a nepo bump. Seemed like he would probably be the 3rd or 4th best WR and Nabers was clearly the best WR in the nation. We’ll see where they end up when it’s all said and done.
Appreciate the channel and the deep dives you do on these players!
You can’t teach the YAC skills that Nabers has. It’s explosive suddenness. Low center of gravity to dig out extra yards and general feel to evade defenders. Players that have those skills are the ones you want to scheme open
Plain and Simple QB and OC are trash, but at least he's not in NY or CHI