Run Wet/Dry/Wet with ONE AMP!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 січ 2021
- ⚠️ High Quality Audio Alert ⚠️ Headphones Recommended! Go to 05:03 for the sound clips!
A true wet/dry/wet rig brings a clarity and dimension to your guitar tone that's extremely difficult to achieve with a standard mono rig. But just the mention of Wet/Dry/Wet deters a lot of DIY rig builders. Today, I'm showing you how to run Wet/Dry/Wet the easy way using only three devices and one amp!
If you have any questions, let us know in the comments below!
3 WET/DRY Prerequisite Devices:
Suhr Line-out Box - amzn.to/2MYZpAW
(alternative: Bray Line Out Box - bit.ly/3skIMQf )
Source Audio Collider Delay+Reverb - amzn.to/3pOG9nR
GFI System Stereo Cabzeus - amzn.to/3i9e1t5
Build my interface HERE:
vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Download my IRs here for FREE:
bit.ly/3hwPQUZ
⬇️ DIY BUFFER INTERFACE DIAGRAMS, TEMPLATES, & MATERIALS ⬇️
Mono - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Tuner Out - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Splitter - www.vertexeffects.com/diy-buf...
Mono w/Audition Loop - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
4 Cable Method (FX Loop) - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Wet/Dry - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Stereo - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Buy VERTEX Pedalboards HERE:
reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
Buy VERTEX Cables HERE:
reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
Buy VERTEX Pedals HERE:
vertexeffects.com/store
🔻 //TONE CONSULTING// 🔻
PRIVATE: www.therigdr.com/products/pri...
GROUP: www.therigdr.com/collections/...
🔈 //podcast// 🔈
Apple: apple.co/36dSQzK
Spotify: spoti.fi/2WGLku8
⬇️ //recommended materials// ⬇️
//buffers//
Vertex DIY - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
Mesa Boogie High-Wire (dual buffer) - bit.ly/2lZwS0s
Empress Stereo Buffer - amzn.to/33lyvHk
Vertex Boost - amzn.to/3hVwvN2
TC Bonafide Buffer (output buffer only - you'll need two) - amzn.to/2vrTSug
//power supply//
CIOKS DC7 - amzn.to/3d4qOty
CIOKS 8 - amzn.to/2zW5YOn
CIOKS 4 - amzn.to/33jWAOZ
Truetone CS6 - amzn.to/2wWLbII
Truetone CS7 - amzn.to/2x1Nf2k
Truetone CS12 - amzn.to/33rfLq3
Voodoo Lab x4 - amzn.to/2ILwKtP
Strymon Zuma - amzn.to/3dpZANe
Strymon Ojai - amzn.to/3evVXGE
Strymon Zuma R300 - amzn.to/2ZgLclt
IEC Plug Covers - bit.ly/34fpGl3
//pedalboard patch cables//
VERTEX Patch Cables - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
//instrument cables//
VERTEX Instrument Cables - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
//dc power cables//
2.1mm DC Power Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2pGqXzI
2.1mm DC Power Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/36wd1sA
Bulk Power Cables (pre made) - amzn.to/3ev1q0t
//midi//
MIDI Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2oKHDFG
MIDI Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/32fNNLF
MIDI Cable (bulk) - amzn.to/2tPAHWQ
//pedalboards, lifts, risers, bridges//
Pedalboard Surfaces - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
Pedal Risers/Lifts/Bridges - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
//velcro//
3M Dual Lock SJ3550 (for pedal) - amzn.to/2TP1rlu
3M Dual Lock SJ3551 (for base) - amzn.to/2I8a7SG
//cable management//
Zip Ties - amzn.to/2HP1Ulv
Tie Down Mounts - amzn.to/2r5ZkAN
//pedalboard tools//
Soldering Iron - amzn.to/2TTdMI4
Solder (60/40) - amzn.to/2U7XhsD
Solder Dispenser - amzn.to/2GpgMpR
Octopus Arms - amzn.to/2V3O8OD
Wire Strippers (30-20 AWG) - amzn.to/2BBMI6n
Wire Strippers (20-10 AWG) - amzn.to/2EbhBR3
Wire Snips - amzn.to/2EazwqU
Vise - amzn.to/2E9eTLO
Heat Gun (embossing gun) - amzn.to/2BwGdlm
Label Maker - amzn.to/2BCBcHU
Label Maker Tape (black) - amzn.to/2Cd3CZe
Label Maker Tape (clear) - amzn.to/34piDD4
Deoxit D5 Contact Cleaner - amzn.to/2GEm4gu
Truetone Milliamp (mA) Reader - amzn.to/2F9v3VN
Tone Brush - amzn.to/2HIfze3
Upholstery Crow Bar - amzn.to/2HIOU0K
Multimeter - amzn.to/2YW9BdE
Goo Gone - amzn.to/31rGJeS
👇 CLICK BELOW FOR ALL DIY DIAGRAMS 👇
DIY Power Cables: vertexeffects.com/diy-power-c...
DIY Interface: vertexeffects.com/diy-interface
DIY Buffers: vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
CONTRIBUTORS:
Hunter Harrison - Mixing, Audio Editing
Mason Mejia - Co-Producing, Editing
Victor San Pedro - Editing
Mason Marangella - Co-Producing
Nico Sotomayor - Videographer
#WetDryWet #RigDoctor #DIYPedalboard
If you have any questions about running a WET/DRY/WET rig, let us know in the comments below!
SUBSCRIBE: ua-cam.com/users/vertexeffectsinc
Hi! Instead of use a line out box, can I use "send" to feed the wet signal? Would it give the same result? Thanks.
this may be a dumb question but is there such thing as dual guitarist bands each with their own wet dry wet rigs? or do they just use dual wet drys?
Ok I understand until it goes to the cab Zeus. Where does that go. To the cab?
@@juangiraldo54wondering the same thing
@@DrErickLopez. i bought the cab zeus. in my particular situation i have a tc electronic g system. and a two note revolt and go out stereo from the tc electronic. into the cab zeus. it sounds good has many options. bit cant compare that to the products that are out there lime the boss ir 2. for example. i am using something g else right now. and i like it better. but still that can zeus is a great option. i tried to do the wet dry. but. if i did that i was not able to use the boost on my g system. but it sounded awesome.
Title change- run wet/dry/wet with one amp, one computer, one spitter, one stereo effects pedal, one stereo DI box, 2 studio monitors, one mixer ,etc. Fun to watch and informative though, nice work.
Ha! Fair enough...but most of that stuff you'd need anyway to record a guitar :)
I left this video a more confused human being than when I started watching it.
Too many roundabouts wet dry dry wet oh no another wet eh dry mix another roundabout am lost confused.com
What was the main thing you didn't understand...perhaps I can clarify.
I've watched this video about 5 times. I'll probably watch it again. Thanks for explaining wet/dry/wet.
Glad it was helpful!
Damn it, Mason. I'm literally building my pseudo one amp wet/dry rig this week! In simple terms, I have my dry effects split into a Strymon Iridium (and tube amp) then into the wet effects then to a Two Notes CAB M. Then I'll XLR right into the mixer. Can't wait to see this one!
This application can really be done with the single amp and a few other products
Im really looking forward to it.🍸🍸
🙏🙏🙏
great video, Mason
Glad you enjoyed it
Basically Excellence! Good Job !!
Thank you Brent!!!
Mason... one additional option I have used for my WDW setup... I use the Radial JDX box between my amp and cab. The JDX provides a speaker emulated signal to the stereo effect(s) as well. A little more limited than the Cabzeus, but the JDX box gets you to one piece of hardware for the Suhr and the Cabzeus function. Thanks for the video and examples.
Yes, I've tried these for re-amping, they are good for certain things.
Ho Mason! Thank you so much for share with us your knowledge and experience! I wanna ask you how Is the best way to mix dry and wet signal of a Rotary pedal like the neo mini vent that don't have a mix control, with only one amp, i want to blend some dry signal to get srv cold shot kind of tone, cheers from italy
I have watched this video a few times great stuff. Question: You are just using one amp, but have your cab simulator going to two external monitors...correct? So, to set this up, I would need a couple of cabs in addition to my amp?
All wet dry wet in the classical sense is mono preamp section for dry and stereo power amps for the wet. In this case we’re feeding the mixing board directly but you could also feed monitors or both the mixer and monitors or IEMs. You could need one amp and two powered monitors. Something like a QSC 8” or 10” would be totally ample, but you could use really any backline monitor since your already have a can and speaker sim from the Cab Zeus.
Hi Mason! Just want to know I’m a fan of Vertex effects and your Rig doctor show! I was inspired by your WDW set up that I made this rig. This is my WDW version. 1. Empress buffer plus (w/ tuner output and boost), 2. Wet: tuner output of buffer plus to H9 and Collider (dual mono) to Goodwood “output” to 1 or 2 amps(wet). 3. Dry: buffer plus ‘loop out’ to guitar pedals back to ‘loop in’ of buffer plus to amp(dry). To add excitement; I added 2 loops in my dry loop using JHS switchback (loop 1: compressor, tumnus, jhs switchback, katana, tube screamer, phase 95, carbon copy. Loop 2: compressor, tumnus, jhs switchback, ricochet, Revv G3, OCD ge, super overdrive, eq). What do you think of this set up? Tnx!
It's a different way to do it, but can still work as an alternative. If you're happy with the sound that's the most important thing!
Tnx! I am an average guitar player and this is my first rig build. I want to showcase this in one of your show one day. The show which you feature different rig setup by amateur.ü
I love this. And I have a question I am trying to do something similar with cabezus but ampless. I am using a two notes revolt and a line 6hx , I am able to make it work but. The dry signal is too low in volume.
Amazing video
Thanks for everything.
We can't buy the suhr ISO now.
So what do you think do I have to buy to do Wet/Dry/Wet sound with the same quality as suhr?
Can I use one amp only for stereo? Or only Wet/Dry/wet?
Can I do it with strymon timeline,big sky, and h9 max?
If I have a bogner atma can I do this without having a second power amp?
Man thank you. I was about to buy a rack for this, and you save me with that.
BTW the vertex boost, steel string, and ultraphonix is just perfect man. Cheers and thank you
You could get the Bray Line Out Box.
Have you done any videos with the two notes captor X? Would love to see your thoughts on this product and capabilities as you’d describe them using tube amp + cab and digital cabs simultaneously, in a live setting.
Why would you care what this piece of shit conman thinks?
Jason; how is this simple? Specially for guitar players. Half of the audience heads exploded the moment you introduced the speaker to line level box.
If you know a way to get wet/dry/wet with fewer pieces, please be my guest!
@@VertexEffectsInc 2 amps and a radial twin city aby. Done deal. That's wet/dry but it sounds good to my ears.
@@erpringle nope, that's a split mono rig.
@@VertexEffectsInc works for me. Princeton reverb/wet, Friedman pt20/dry, sounds kickass to my ears. I'm not picky
@@erpringle I'm sure it sounds good, no doubt, it's just different than Wet/Dry/Wet or Wet/Dry
Greetings, and thanks for the great video! I do have one relatively simple question for the experts here, and I'm REALLY hoping you'll help me out with it. I'll try to make it as simple as possible: I have the equipment necessary to do a W/d/W system in either one of two different ways, and I'd like to know which one you folks think would offer the best all-around sound. Option 1) Limited up-front pedals, in series, into a central (dry) amp, with the amp's Line-Out going to stereo rack-mounted effects (delay/reverb), then to a solid-state stereo power amp and twin (wet) speaker cabs, or Option 2) Limited up-front pedals, in series, into an ABY Splitter, with Channel A going to a dry amp, and Channel B going to effects pedals (delay/reverb), then out (in stereo), to twin powered amps with matching speaker cabs. I've asked this question to multiple folks on multiple forums over the weeks and months, but I've yet to get a reasonable answer. Which of these is likely to offer me the all-around best sound? Many thanks for your time, consideration, and guidance.👍
What do you think of Mayer's 2013 & 2014 W/D/W setup where he had Steel String Singer 002 in the middle as the dry amp, and then flanked on both sides by his Two Rock JM Sig's? There was no signal feed off of the dry SSS to the Two Rock's. The signal coming from the pedalboard was just split 3 ways. 1 straight into the Dumble, 1 signal split into the front end the left side Two Rock then to Bricasti M7 reverb via the effects loop. And then the same exact setup with going into the front end of the right side Two Rock, and into a separate Bricasti unit via the amp's effect's loop. I know that it sure sounded amazing. Though it doesn't sound to me like the Bricasti's were set to 100% wet. What do you think of this setup where basically the guitar signal is going into 3 different amps instead of only going straight to the dry amp and feeding the wet sides with a signal off of the dry amp?
Not really a wet/dry rig just a split mono with the splitter before three amps. The later rigs with the Bricasti that I saw did have a slave out feeding it that fed ATC powered monitors with the return only from the Reverb. However, I haven't seen it withstand the test of time so I guess he didn't dig it so much.
Thanks for explaining things simply! Another kick ass video! A request: perhaps attempt the Landau tri-chorus LA studio sound (Richard Marx, Michael Bolton, etc) with just pedals. Full on 80's w/d/w orgasmic effluvium! lol Keep up the good work!
Wasn't that sorta what I did (minus the TSC)?
check out Kristian Larsen, or the LA Sound Design vids if you haven't already, you will find plenty of that there
@@VertexEffectsInc Sorry of I insulted you The vid was awesome and the chorus sound was killer. I just wanted something that dealt with his older sound. My bad.
@@deadpope1 no offense taken...I tried to go for those style chord voicings so that's why I was asking LOL
Great video, thanks, it's exactly what I want to do but with a Captor X instead of a cab.
Is there a difference if the cabzeus is before or after the wet effect?
The Cab Zeus is Stereo and I find does best for power amp/speaker sim, where I prefer the Cab M if you really need more of an "amp"
If you wanted the wet effects to happen post amp-distortion, would you use two amps? both with an effects loop and with the source audio collider go:
*From fx loop 1 the send goes to input 1 of pedal.
*From fx loop 2 the send goes to input 2 of the pedal.
*From fx loop 1 the return goes to output 2 of pedal.
*From fx loop 2 the return goes to output 1 of the pedal.
Thinking that possibly this could create ground loop or phase issues though. But I can’t really think of any other simple scenarios for stereo wet effects going post-amp distortion … ofcourse for the dry signal you could use a direct out split from one of the amps fx loop sends before it hits the collider, or just take it from somewhere in the pedal board. Am i making sense?
Normally you'd go 5 cable method if you want stereo wet amps with FX Loops.
Amp #1 (main amp) will have all dry processing going into the amp input. FX Send out of Amp#1 feeds the input of the first wet effect and feeds in stereo through all we effects. Output L (mono) from the last wet effect will feed the FX Return of Amp #1.
Output R (stereo) of the last wet effect will feed the FX Return of Amp #2.
So, Amp #1 will have something plugged into the input, FX send, and FX return.
Amp #2 will only have something plugged into the FX return (nothing else).
I run my guitar straight into a combo amp with zero effects and occasionally use the built in reverb. I would like to do a setup where I keep that. But do the reverb separately and also add delay, chorus and other effects. But I only want the effects occasionally. Is their a way to do something like this but blend the wet stuff in with a volume pedal or something? So I always have my good jazz tone going. But add a little bit of the other stuff for the occasional experimenting/covers type stuff.
You can check out our DIY interface box that will allow you to do 4CM or all pedals in front of the amp. It will work for this application and you can use a line out box to feed the delay and reverb when you want to run the delay and verb wet/dry.
Hey Mason how you doing , i have two (newbie?) questions
-how doesn't the Suhr Line Box get fried being plugged to the amp's speaker out
-would the results be radically different if you,instead of using the speaker out used the amp's effect loop send to feed the Collider > CabZeus >mixer> wet speakers or monitors
The Line Out box (or any L.O. box) is just a speaker thru. Your cabinet is still the load with the speaker, this is just tapping off between the speaker input and output to provide a line level output to feed your wet effects. The Send wont' usually have any way to attenuate the volume and may be in a different place than the line out box relative to the amp.
Ok so I have a Fender Custom shop tonemaster head and cab.. my wet effects are a tc flashback, Ibanez em5 echo machine, way huge blue hippo, & Strymon flint(interchange with tc hof).. dry effects are simply nos fuzz & a cleanboost/od…. The head also has an effects loop per channel.. what I’m wanting to do is simply blend the dry/front of amp signal with the wet effects and I’m a total noob at this…. I’ve always ran effects all in front of the amp… could you possibly send an sos for me ? I’m the mean time I will watch more tutorials… I’m just trying to get the best possible outcome out of what I already have. Thanks
Great video thx...if I come line outta my 5150iii 50w head, into an atomic amplifier, just use the modelled power amp and irs, could I go straight to two channels on the snake going to the front end of the p.a. system?...and also have the real cab Mic going to the front end...so I need 3 channels on the front end mixer?
You would put any pedal effects before the Atomic and then feed the outputs of the Atomic to your FOH. You'd need one channel for the 5150 (dry), and two for the wet signal from the Atomic. I'd mix the 5150 straight up the middle and hard pan the wet effects left and right.
can you plug 2 thru output for 2 wet cabinets (return in fx loops) while recording? Thanks
Do you have any suggestions for mixing the dry levels in real-time, either in your DAW or a live setting? It would be helpful to fade the dry level for certain ambient applications!
You could put a volume pedal as the last pedal into the dry and have another on the line level out so you could mix them both in real time.
or some sort of panning pot on a volume pedal, I think Ernie Ball had a panning VP.
You mentionned you were using the Cabzeus as cab AND power amp sim. But I went through the Cabzeus manual and didn't find anywhere I could use it as a power amp sim. Basically, in my effects loop is it OK (sound and/or level-wise) to take the stereo out of my parallel mixer (RJM mini line mixer), plug it in the Cabzeus, and just send the outputs to my AD interface *without* power amp ? And if I want to use this Idea live with 2 stereo speakers for the mixer's stereo out , then I guess here I'll be using the "through" outputs but do I need 2 power amps after them and before the speakers ? Thanks so much.
Pierre, it's assuming that role, it can't drive a cabinet to my knowledge. For this application that I showed, it's acting as the wet speaker cabinets and power amp in the context of a "wet dry wet" rig.
Instead of using cab simulator can it be done this way?
The amp is mic'd with a single microphone, the output of that microphone goes into an active microphone splitter that buffers and makes three copies of the signal. One of the signal is sent directly to the mixer, that signal is the dry signal and is panned to the center. The other two signals are fed into a rack-mount stereo effects processing unit which outputs two fully wet stereo signals, these two signals are panned left and right.
Guys would do this often in the rack ear with a Aphex mic preamp. Dry cabinet is mic'd, then goes to the mic pre input, splits out of the mic pre with one side going to the board as the DRY, and the other side going to the wet processing effects in the rack, feeding a power amp, and then the L and R wet cabinets.
Great content. I’m a little surprised, however, not to hear more about the Komet Ambikab - essentially a wet/dry/wet-in-a-box - on this channel. Their design eliminates the need for some of this stuff.
Well...it's not really a true wet/dry/wet in this sense. No parallel mixes, it's like having a power amp on board your cabinet. Mic'ing this would be a bit odd in order to really get the wet/dry/wet effect. I think it's a cool idea, but not really the same as the classical wet/dry set up.
@@VertexEffectsInc that’s true. Trey Anastasio was using ambikabs for a few years. He had two komet 60s, one with 6L6s and the other with EL tubes, both going into their own ambikab. He and his tech tried to workaround the wet/dry isolation issue by using the wet speakers from the opposite cab, which would have to switch whenever the amps would switch. I guess that was too complicated because they ditched the ambikabs and he’s using a komet 60 power amp section to drive a dedicated wet cab. Also this is a pedal channel not a weird amp channel lmao
The GigRig Wetter Box is a parallel mixer pedal, have you tried this pedal out and also used with the lineout box pedal?
Yes, this could work as a mixer for two stereo pedals...I think that's the max.
Hi Jason. Thanks for the video. I have a quick question. How would you do it if you want to have multiple effects in series on the wet side (not the Collider)? My issue is, if you have one effect on kill dry, the next effect in line will only affect the wet portion of the signal. So, all wet effects need to be in parallel right? My rig includes a G2 which has 2 outputs. One output I keep it dry, and the second output goes to a Volante and 2 H9s in series, but I can only do Wet-Dry-Wet by maintaining the dry signal through the wet path, therefore not 100% wet. Sounds great, but I would like to have the option o 100% wet. Let me know if you would have any suggestions to have the option to run the wet path 100% wet. Thanks.
I´m guessing the answer is Parallelizer right?
I would put the wet effects into a stereo parallel mixer like a Musicom Lab Parallelizer which you can control via MIDI in your G2. This will give you a dry path and mix controls for all your pedals.
Hey Mason! I recently got the Red Seven Lil' Wave - it's an awesome chorus but can't go 100% wet - does that mean it cannot be used in a wet/dry rig - or, that, with it in the chain, it's not a real W/D?
Most wet dry wet rigs never ran the chorus 100% wet, it was the the first effect to split stereo into the stereo line mixer. I don’t run the chorus in the mixer so it doesn’t need to be 100% wet, most chorus pedals won’t do this.
hi, I have a Strymon Zelzah, I'm just wondering that a multi phaser like Zelzah should be in the "wet" part or the "dry" part?
I've tried both, if I put it in the wet part, the phaser effect would be too vague. But if I put it in the dry part, I would need to sacrifice the stereo phaser.
Is there any suggestion? Thanks.
Depends on the person...EVH used them in front of the amp...some guys might prefer the effect in post.
Can you make a video lesson about what the differences between a DI box compared to "LINE Isolator" box. Walrus Audio makes a Line Isolator box that is called Canvas. DI box convert an unbalanced signals into balanced signals but a Line Isolator box has a galvantic isolation transformer to lift the ground so the ground is isolated?
Some of the DI boxes will also have isolation as well, like the Radial stuff, I also think the TA Link has this as well.
@@VertexEffectsInc yes some DI box are Iine Isolator box but I'm not sure if they have an isolation transformers to do the ground lifting. It would be nice to find a buffer pedal that has "line isolation" so the input ground and the output ground jack are 100% isolated. The only way to do it is to use a Line isolator box AFTER a buffer pedal. Not all Line isolator boxes are the same because they all don't use isolation transformers.
Can I use my empress buffer as an splitter (withs the tunner out)? Or is it necessary a especifical split box with the toggle options that you mention?
You could use the tuner out as a splitter, however it's off the input and won't be isolated (if you need that). It still wouldn't be a wet/dry system however as you really need a line out after the output transformer.
Can i use these line out boxes to to record my amps raw sound into audio interface?(with the speaker load being connected for sure),since i don't need silent recording i think it should sound far better than the load boxes cause the amp is meeting the actual speaker load,my only concern is that they don't have balanced out, will it overload the audio interface or cause any similar problem with unbalanced out?is there any better alternative for this application? Thank you again!
most of the IR loader boxes have some sort of line out on them and reactive load. Ideally you'll want that plus your IR to make the best possible sound that represents a mic'd speaker.
I hear some GIANT 'Stay'.
Yes!!! My mediocre attempt ;)
Effects are mono. Are the returns panned or is it just wet/dry? I thought you mentioned it was stereo returns? Been using the Suhr box for years - great piece and problem solver.
For the mix down, since most are on their phones, we'll usually do it in mono to be in control of how it's summed. There were three channels, dry (ch 1), wet L (ch 2), wet R (ch 3).
Gotcha. As you mention the real benefit of a wet/dry or w/d/w setup is acoustically in the room or on stage. Only gain I see for recording is having separate control of effect level in post.
@@EricLyke well it allows you to mix in parallel which is nice for a lot of contexts for live, but the biggest benefit is nothing wet is printed to the dry track and before protools was out, this was a good way to record guitar so you could adjust the wet mix after the fact or reamp the dry since the wet and dry were independent.
Right and agree. I used W/D/W live for years. FOH engineers always told me they appreciated having control over the effects - after they complained about having to run 3 mics :-D
@@EricLyke well...doing it this way would eliminate two mics at least :)
If you wanted to run both wet outputs at 100% wet, would you still need a parallel mixer? Or could you just have say a delay and reverb pedal both set to kill dry, and run one after the other then go out to the cab sim?
If it had analog dry and it was just one effect (not multiple effects), you could. If you want to use more than one, no, you couldn't.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks! Also one more question, if the wet effects are gonna be at 100% and mixed in with the parallel mixer, why is it important that they be analog dry through?
What are good alternatives to the Suhr Iso Line Out? Did Suhr quit making it?? I want the Suhr, but I'm currently unable to find it anywhere (it's unavailable on the provided Amazon link too). Thanks!
Bray makes a great one!
@@VertexEffectsInc 🤘thank you🤘
Could you do this with a UA ox instead of the suhr line out? using the line outs from the ox?
No exactly, you can't run the effects in parallel and I don't think you can separate dry from the wet. Is there more than one way to get signal out of it? A dry or DI out from the Ox?
I have a cabzeus and two Bray, like the box from Suhr, and it does not work right. I am taking the speaker out on the poweramp in stereo, via the bray's lineout to the cabzeus in stereo. It clips even on -20 db on the cabzeus and a low setting on the Bray/Suhr box. This drives me crazy right now.
You should be using the line out off of your dry amp or off the preamp side, not power amp side. The line level out should feed 100% wet effects and/or parallel mixer which then feeds your power amp.
The cabzeus is designed to take the poweramp signal, hence the -20 and -30 db switch. The poweramp tone is far superior to the tone from the preamp directly into the cabzeus.
If you’re killing the dry why does it need to be analog? I understand the issues of latency and phase when mixing analog and digital dry paths in parallel signal chains. It’s just if you’re killing the dry on a reverb or delay you won’t have that issue at all. So it needs either analog dry or the ability to kill the dry, depending on your preference, but not both.
Hi Mason.
For all the players outputing a stereo L and R going to 2 amps, is there an all-in-one box to either 1) buffer both L and R outputs and 2) have one output with optional phase reversal and ISO transformer in case both amps dont play well with each other ?
And if that is not the standard stereo output setup, then what would you recommand ?
Thanks a lot
I have some diagrams on our DIY buffer video for this. The only thing it doesn't have is the ISO transformer option but most of those transformers for this application are poor and really should be on the amp anyway and not on the pedalboard because they're output transformers. I would check out the DIY diagrams and gets something like the Lehle P Split for one amp so you can have the galvanic isolation if you need it for the stereo amp. It also has a polarity control too.
Empress Stereo Buffer
I have a Boss KT50 that doesn't have an effects loop, and a Supra Delta 12 that I want to link together. I have a EHX Parallel Mixer. I'm thinking I can get the Bray Line out box to be able to run to the mixer, to create a effects loop, right? Thanks, Mason!
You can use the line out box to feed one into the other. You don't necessarily need the mixer for that unless you want to insert effects between them. You can't run stereo unless you have two power amps and two cabinets to receive the stereo signal.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks! This is all a little confusing.
@@sandyturner1911 If you want to run a wet/dry/wet rig you need dedicated speakers for the wet Left, wet right, and dry. You also need dedicated power amps for the wet signals. Right now you only have two amp so the best you could do is wet/dry.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks! With this info, I'll be able to figure it out, I think. Fingers crossed. 🤔
Could you use a Strymon Iridium in this setup instead of the Cabzeus? What alternatives could you use instead of the Suhr line out?
No because you can't separate the power amp or the speaker sim from the preamp. Suhr Line Out or the Bray Line Out are the only two I know of.
@@VertexEffectsInc If I have an amp with a line out, I don't need a line out box, right? So could I use the line out from a combo amp such as a Boss Katana artist to go straight to the collider?
You could use the Palmer PDI 09 ("The Junction") instead of the Suhr Line Out. The Palmer has the cab sim, the Suhr does not.
And the cab sim of the Palmer is great.
That's how I take a line out of my vintage 1971 Fender Vibrolux.
But hurry, because Palmer has stopped the production of the little PDI 09. The next option would be the rack mountable PDI 05.
Now do this same video in stereo. I bet it would sound even better! Does the Collider do ping pong delays?
It was recorded in stereo the mixdown was to mono since 90+ % is on phones for listening
I hate to distract - but at 9:30, are you playing “Stay” by GIANT?! My man! 👏🏻
Yessir!
What about taking the dry signal to the amp as normal, then sending the wet signals through something like an Iridium direct to the board. It might be simpler to initiate, with negligible affect on tone.
Why? Your wet doesn't need another set of preamps, just power amps with some cab simulation.
@@VertexEffectsInc The iridium can also disable amp sim, or cabs. It can run directly into the board with just its cabs on.
Something I'm curious about - if you're using an amp modeler into full range flat response monitors, or into an audio interface (which ultimately means into someone's headphones or speakers), is there really any benefit to wet/dry? The whole 'wet signal competing with dry signal in one speaker' - we're ultimately hearing music in stereo, so would there really be any benefit? I don't know if it's like a tweeter vs subwoofer thing where each speaker can better produce a signal if it's simpler, and if that's mostly relevant to guitar speakers (vs flat response), or if it's more of a surround sound thing (we have 2 ears, but we can sense Spatial Audio as our head moves around)..
Should I run my boss MD500 and other modulations such as phaser in the dry chain and only time based effects in the wet. It looks like you had the chorus going thru the dry.
You definitely could.
@@VertexEffectsInc is it more standard to run all modulation through the wet?
@@Souldoubtrocks Yes, but before the mixer.
@@VertexEffectsInc thank you
Two questions:
1) Why split the speaker out and not do it through the effects loop?
2) Is there a way to build up a w/d/w setup so that you can switch the stereo wet signals to blend back into dry signal in the if you only have one amp?
1) some amps have line out on the back or a slave output and a level control so you can do that. A standard send has no level control on most effects loops. 2) Check out the Parallelizer from Musicomlab
If I have two effects (neunaber inspire & SA collider) in kill dry (the both have mix/blend controls) and in series, will that still produce a w/d/w effect? Or does the fact that they’re in series defeat the purpose?
What’s the inspire? Reverb?
@@VertexEffectsInc it’s a stereo tri chorus effect with detune.
@@DanielMoore-zr8rm Typically these aren't kill dry, they'll feed the mixer as the last stereo effects before it goes into the mixer.
So, what's your take on latency in regards to the topic?
Let's say in the case of a Wet/Dry rig, you are running your wet amp FX at full wet, so, you aren't getting any dry signal through.
I run a twin Orange wet/dry rig. After hearing the guys on TPS talk about the importance of analog wet FX OR digitals with analog dry-through when you run a wer/dry rig, I've been really apprehensive to buy digital stuff that doesn't have dry-through advertised...and for the digital stuff that I do have with a wet/dry mix control, I've been apprehensive to run them at full wet.
If the latency is really that big of an issue, essentially putting the amps out of phase slightly, that really narrows down the pedal selection for the Wet signal.
Latency? If you're running 100% wet kill dry with a mixer, you still have the analog dry signal - no latency there. Also not all wet effects go 100% wet so there may still be some dry in them no matter what. This is quite common unless the effect is designed for studio applications or a mix bus. The analog dry through is important in this context, but even if you have a DSP bypass pedal with no analog dry, you can still make it analog dry by using a mixer with it. Problem solved.
Was thinking about this whole wet/dry/wet thing again, if we ever get out gigging again would this set up be technically be wet dry wet, If I set up my es5 board with the splitter going yo my ac15 with just drive/comp and mic it up and set it to Center then feed the output of it send mod pedals into a humboldt simlifer (analog amp/cab simulator) which has an onboard loop which I would use to feed signal to my dc2w and dd500 and set either side of that to hard left and hard right with drives/comp mods / dimension and delays....?
Splitters in front of the amp aren't wet/dry...it's a splitter in mono. I outline the rules here for Wet/Dry in the video if you want to do it in the classical sense. It might still sound good as you do it, but you don't have any of the parallel mixing options and being able to control your wet and dry acoustically in real time.
Vertex Effects I’m going to have to watch the video again, I can’t 100% get my head around it! Thanks a mill for the response/info . #youralegand
Vertex Effects How about using a paralleliser either after the board or fed of amp line out and then into a speaker simulator would that be more accurate in replicating it?
@@billytremoloband7456 let me know if I can clarify, we also have a few more videos on this you can watch on the channel :)
@@billytremoloband7456 You could get a parallelizer fed by your line out box and put your wet effects in the parallelizer to feed either a power amp, or something like the Cab Zeus.
I came here fot the wet dry wet and stayed for that guitar!😍
Nice!
The idea of "going parallel"; ...You line out the dry signal to non-stereo effects pedals in series at 100% wet (if available); then go on to the last stereo effect, which has kill dry. ( any effect before does NOT need to). How does the kill dry function even separate what is wet or dry at that point and how would this result in a stereo signal at the final outputs?
Finally, the alternate solution of routing each individual effect pedal in parallel to a mixer seems inconceivable if you've got more than a handful.
Rich, this is why you need the mixer. The mixer will provide the analog dry path. Putting the effects in parallel at 100% wet, return only, and then mixing those either 100% wet or in with the dry path is how this would typically be done. There are great pedalboard friendly solutions out there now if you want to combine several effects in parallel with products like the Musicom Parallelizer. The mixer is in series, but the wet effects are in parallel, and often in these classic rack rigs there are multiple parallel mixers so you have series/parallel set up all in stereo. See the product I linked above, and I think it will make more sense to you how this works. I also have a video showing routing diagrams.
@@VertexEffectsInc It does make sense in the manner of the Parallelizer, with the effects coming off the pedalboard. My situation is a bit more complex with the pre-out coming from the amp into the effects. It could still work with the Parallelizer using the dry in and the effects in the loops. It's not nearly enough loops to handle all I've got going on. The most logical option (to me) is to stick with wet/dry, though I'm missing out on the stereo effect of wet/dry/wet. I should join your Patreon if only for your help in unlocking routing schemes that I can't quite figure out on my own. Thanks, Mason
Would the chorus be in the wet side normally?
What comes after the cab Zeus? I don’t intend to use an audio interface since I don’t want to utilize a computer…can the cab Zeus stereo out go back to the single amp?
What you can do with the outs of the cabzeus is send them to Frfr speakers. Some speakers have 2 inputs so you could even send them both to just one (it wouldn’t sound as wide as with two, though).
So the collider would work more so than the specular tempest since the ST can’t run two effects in parallel?
If this were your only stereo effect, it works great because it's in stereo and has the mixer built in.
@@VertexEffectsInc it’s my last stereo effect. In front of specular tempest I had a boss MD500 and then an H9 and then the specular tempest.
Another device you could use is the EHX Tri parallel mixer
For your mixer, you could. The quality is pretty poor compared to what I recommended however. Are those loops stereo though?
@@VertexEffectsInc nope, it's all mono but I think that since it has 3 loops you should be able to use 2 together to send to the stereo FX.
So the signal path would be guitar into the drives and preamp, then it goes into the Tri parallel mixer and send two "loop send" into the stereo FX and power amp+cabs or Cabzeus while the dry signal goes through the Tri parallel mixer into the CAB M.
That's the idea, I don't have the devices so I can't test however if someone happens to have the chance to try and let us know, it would be cool.
Thank you for your hard work
@@kainagami You have to have one of the loops always on in order to get stereo out because you have to have one acting as the stereo return and one is the mono output
@@VertexEffectsInc you have to return in the pedal as well? Haven't considered that fact. This is getting more complicated than I thought to do.
@@kainagami if you want it in stereo you'd have to put the stereo output into two returns, I don't see how it would work with this unit unless I'm missing something.
Was only saying to one of my work colleagues (fellow guitarist in the bay next to me) yesterday about setting up a wet/dry/wet rig at home for the laugh as chances are there won’t be any cover gigs going for a few years and anyways it not like as you could turn up to a bar gig with 3 amps and expect not to be sent home do to way to much volume.....!
You don't need three amps, there really should only be one, the dry amp. Even in the 80's the wet power amps were racked and there was only one amp on stage or power amp. This makes that even simpler since the Cab Zeus is a pedal size speaker sim that takes 9V and does your power amp and speaker sim in one and is stereo. You just feed it right to your mixer or FOH.
Vertex Effects To be fair That sounds much handier than lugging 3 amps around!
@@billytremoloband7456 For the wet dry there’s really no advantage of there being 3 high quality amps with the preamp involved, that’s not really part of the sound, so really no matter what you’re doing it’s not really that valuable to use 3 amps
Also, why does the effect need to have analog dry through? Thanks
Latency if you're not using a mixer to bring back in the dry path.
@@VertexEffectsInc thank you!
is it possible to run wet dry with a mixer and a tc electronic g system?
I think there are multiple outputs and a send/return on the G system isn't there?
@@VertexEffectsInc yes there are
I don't know if I agree with the placement of the cab filter in this configuration. Don't you want to get the full range of frequencies from the wet effects instead of cramming them through a V30? I feel like reverbs in particular need a bit more top end to really shine. So why not put the cab filter before the wet effects?
That wouldn't have been how it was run in a classical wet/dry rig. Line level out feeds mixer with 100% wet effects, feeds power amp, feeds cabinet. Cabinet is last before any mics of the wet hit the mixer.
@@VertexEffectsInc It's just a bit funny to imagine these genius DSP engineers at Strymon and Source Audio coding these perfect plates and halls and then lowpassing it all at like 3k or whatever. I think it's worth experimenting with it both ways if you haven't already.
Can you get the wet dry wet sound from a line 6 HX
Sure, you’re basically just gonna follow the 4 cable method but go stereo out, and the line level and will feed the return
Don't you need a buffer from the line out back to you collider ?
no, the line level output should be fine, and you have the volume control on the Suhr box to adjust the level hitting the collider
Absolutely love your channel dude.
When a buffer is said to provide a balanced output, does that mean i can go out of it stereo with a Y cable to feed 2 amps ?
I have a stereo out on my board and i have trouble finding buffers that are stereo capable, and also provide 1 isolated transformer output.. BTW is your DIY stereo interface offering these 2 things ?
Thanks doc'
If you're going balanced out, you won't need a buffer on the output, just the input of the system when it's still single ended. You would need two XLR cables for each output of the Cab Zeus. We do a DIY stereo buffer that we show in one of our videos and include a wiring diagram and drill template, you can check that out and just add a high quality iso transformer at the amp side (not on the pedalboard), like the Lehle P Split.
I assume you are using a volume pedal to swell and thats not an effect like slow gear?
Can this be run with a combo amp or does it have to be a head and cab?
You can do it with a combo amp, you just might need a female to female jack with an extra speaker cable to get the speaker cable (hardwired in the amp) to reach the line out box.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you!
Dear Rig DOCTOR Great Video !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Rod!
What happens when you have 100% wet sounds like reverse delay - no dry? Won't everyone hear the dry guitar and ruin the effect? Wet Dry Wet definitely sounds way better though. Cheers Ben
Cabzeus and torpedo cab m+ will be the same?
You'd just need two Cab M's since they're mono.
@@VertexEffectsInc but i can use the line out for a stereo pedal and go into a mixer or audio interface.. Than mix with the dry to have stereo
Hi Doc I have a question about an issue I'm having with my wet dry rig .I got a Taurus Dexter octaver mk II that seems to work fine on its own ,but when I put it in my chain bad things happen squeaking white noise then bypassing it self .Would really appreciate any help suggestions ,or ideas you could share with me .It's my most expensive pedal ,I had all kinds of trouble getting it here from Australia ,and I can't even use it . I have phase on my aby baby ,and I put a pitch fork in its place ,and that works fine. Please help.
Is it impedance sensitive? Does it have an isolated supply?
@@VertexEffectsInc It's being powered by a walrus phoenix the pedal says 9-12 v I tried it on both didn't help. Impedance is interesting as it is right after the aby baby in the buffered position .So if I'm picking up what you're putting down I should try it in the unbuffered output ?
@@STRATMAN1969 Your power supply is a linear power supply so it could be that it is too close to the transformer, if the power supply is in your underneath the pedal that could be problematic
@@VertexEffectsInc oh wow I forgot about that .The boards not done yet ,so the pedal is sitting 2" from the power supply .I'll try moving it further away .Again thanks so much you're the only youtuber that takes the time to reply to everyone's questions, and just like a doctor you help viewers at all hours .I don't know when you sleep it's 3 in the morning here for pete sakes .I think that shows true "tegridy" take care stay safe.
@@STRATMAN1969 happy to help! Off to bed ;)
eeeeh whats up doc ? just one question were exactly are we going to use a wet dry wet rig or wet rig or any rig ? I got the jones to play loud in public so f'n bad I cant stands it .For what its worth I got lots of gear but been gigging the cheapest stuff I own that is reliable have any of my fellow watchers ever played bars ? you aint bringing anything you dont want destroyed by drunks ! peace everybody .
All you need is three channels on a mixing board, dry (ch 1), wet left (ch 1), wet right (ch 3). You only need one amp in the fashion I just indicated.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks doc , I was just letting off steam about not playin live for a year ! also 3 channels in the board? that would be asking alot for a wedding /bar band would not be easy sell . AND I own the board !
If my amp has a line out (from the 8 Ohm speaker output)...can I still try this? how?
If your amp has a line out, it's off the output transformer, but might be located near your speaker output on the head. Does it have a level control, what's the amp? Should be fine, but I can verify.
@@VertexEffectsInc It's a Spitfire clone I built and yes, the line out is coming out of the seconday of the OT
@@Migueltxum you might wanna put a 10K audio taper pot on there to control it a bit so you can adjust to the pedals it hits so they don't get blow out, but yes, that'll work.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks !
So in this video did you need an interface with atleast 3 inputs?
Wow just realized you mic'd the main amp in a studio so you probably have an entire console. My setup is at home and I'm using an apolo solo interface. Want to do wet dry wet for more control but was wondering will I have to get another interface with more inputs. I'm running a tube amp head with cab simulation software so I don't necessarily need to mic any cabs which is convenient in a home recording situation.
Guitar In (input one), Line In (input two). The rest are outputs (dry amp out, left wet out, right wet out).
You can expand your interface using a light pipe cable (optical cable) and something like a Presonus mixer to get 8 more channels cheaply.
Hmmm ,
I kind of had an idea , but now I think I’m more confused
How can I clarify?
Ok 2 things. 1) I love a wet rig 2) regarding this setup I'm confused as hell
Watch our video on advanced signal paths :)
Can I pay you for information? Is it possible to contact you? Thanks.
Join us on patreon patreon.com/rigdoctor
Why is this in mono? Isn't the whole point of wet-dry-wet to get stereo sound?
The audio file?
@@VertexEffectsInc Audio file...?
@@PaavoLammikko you're saying it's mono - are you not hearing the audio in stereo?
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes, to me the guitar and the effects sound mono on this video. The background music at the end sounds stereo.
@@VertexEffectsIncYeah pretty sure it's in mono, came into the comments to check. Bit weird to have mono audio on a stereo WDW video
This isn't the Rhett Shull Video
That is correct, I just finished it yesterday, videos won’t come together that fast
Do it in helix please!
Watch my older John Mayer style rig video, I show it on an HX effects.
Is it just me, or are the FX in mono.??
Three channels in the mix, ch 1 dry center, ch 2 wet left, ch 3 wet right. Are you listening on monitors?
@@VertexEffectsInc both on headphones and on my Studio monitors - all mono!
@@bernsense we often will do a mix down in mono because 95% will be listen to on mobile devices. Again the advice in the video and the signal path all holds.
@@VertexEffectsInc ... and it's great advice! I enjoy your videos much... but the times of mono are gone. Cmon, Dr! haha
Sorry, the explanation of the chain was far too quick. I still don´t know how to do this with one amp....
You need a line out box and some sort of stereo cab simulation.
So 100% wet is fine until you bypass the wet effects and suddenly the dry is 100% in 2 more cabs and there is a massive volume bump.
This is why you want to have the right parallel mixer or one that connects to your switcher to just mute the inputs instead of bypassing the unit itself. If you know how to set it up you won't have this issue.
Why are you using line out pedals for your dry signal and L&R signals and saying you're mixing them acoustically? If you use line out for all three signals WDW Dry L&R signals they are going to be mixing them not acoustically but mixing them at line levels. In the 80's they would use 3 speaker cabs and the mixing in the air would cancel out frequencies and cause phase shifting effects acoustically which can't be done really by using 3 line level signals and buss mixing the Dry and L&R wet signals together.
Wayne, the only difference between the 80's/90's technique and this, is the Cab Zeus is your power amp and your speaker simulator instead of actual cabinets. The Cab Zeus feeds your FOH mix and you can have a channel for L and R and have it in your IEM or your wedges if you want it or put powered monitors next to your dry amp if you want it. Your dry amp is always mic'd and has it's own channel separately from the wet just as you would have had in the old days. The wet is designed to be linear and return only, not a lot of amp color hence the line level effects were usually only feeding solid state power amps that fed the wet 4x12's on either side of the dry. You can mix the channels acoustically so you have your desired ration of stereo wet in parallel with dry like you would in a mix bus. I don't know where you're getting three line level signals from, there's only one line out that feeds the parallel mixer - this was how 99% of the Bradshaw racks were in the 80's almost identically.
@@VertexEffectsInc the pedal board in your video has a direct output box that is a line level output for the Dry signal. How are you getting your L&R wet signals on your pedal board? because when you mix the direct output line level with the R&W west signals they are going to be mixed at line levels signals. The 80's would use 3 separate guitar amplifiers to get Left wet, Dry center, Right Wet. Since you're not using 3 separate guitar amplifiers you're using 3 separate line level signals to get Left wet, Dry center, Right Wet?
@@waynegram8907 he says it right in the video. Line level out of the Suhr Line Out Box hits the Collider (off of the pedalboard) not the one on the pedalboard, and then feeds the Cab Zeus for the power amp and wet cab sim in stereo. That goes to the mixing board. The pedalboard is only used in front of the dry amplifier.
@@g.w.thurmond3691 using the Cab Zeus for the Left Wet and Right Wet is mixing line level signals. This is not acoustically mixing the Left wet and right wet in the air from speakers. This is mixing L&R wet signals using Cab Zeus as speaker simulations
First thing...you need a 5 grand 2 rock.
Irrelevant for this video and these were the budget Two Rock during the PGB era that I think were under $2K new...certainly now you can get them under that used.
I think he was being hilariously funny! ;)
Jesus christ! I don't think there's enough s*** to go through
take out the pedalboard and you just have your line out box, Collider Reverb/Delay, and the Stereo Cab Zeus. That's it.
drink everytime he says wet dry wet
It is what the video is about after all - you might not get to the end
sounds more complicated than it really is
Why does the video sound totally mono ......? 🤔
What are you listening on?
Vertex Effects I’m using my iPhone 8 but with it’s original earphones! The background music appears to be stereo at the start of the video.
@@billytremoloband7456 In the mix, we didn’t hard hand the left and right with dry in each one of them, just because of the way that it’s typically listen to, better to be control of the mono mix then depend on somebody having a system where they can hard pan left and right
Vertex Effects Ah that makes more since now, I thought I was loosing the plot 🤦♂️
@@billytremoloband7456 all good
When people listen through their phone speakers after you spent thousands of $$$ on gear... smh
I guess that’s a good case for us all to go back to our line 6 pods
Too much information at the beginning.
Yeah would be nice if he just provided a diagram.
Is there a budget recommendation for the cabzeus?
Not that I know of, there may be however???