I am an professional Aeronautical engineer. Currently i work for Rolls Royce Civil large engines. Believe me designing a whole jet is not a small job, it take 10-15 years of research and thousands of engineers hardwork 🔥
As an engineer, I appreciate your effort to convey just how much knowledge goes into high tech items. I was an engineer at McDonnell Douglas, and later at Caterpillar. I worked with so many smart people in so many different areas of expertise that it was truly humbling. It was a joy to work with so many clever people. Hopefully some of your viewers will go into these areas of study, make contributions, and share their stories.
@@unexploredmind5550 it might have been easier when Ronald Reagan was throwing tons of money at the defense industry. It should also be noted that funding for aerospace comes and goes very quickly, so you have to be prepared to use Plan B. Good luck!
I was always impressed by your restraint when questions of this sort showed up. I'm impressed that you were able to prevent this from becoming a bit of rant.
Well, I don't ever want to discourage anyone. Someday, somebody is going to revolutionize the world, and I don't want to reduce that persons chances at success, or even delay them.
@@AgentJayZ I hope you have apprentices who work with you from time to time. You're just born to teach. For my part - I'll never mess with a gas turbine engine - but I really enjoy listening to your obvious passion for the subject. And it's cool to surprise my youngest (in US Army rotary wing training) with power plant knowledge. Got to keep the youngsters on their toes!
My day job is commercial jet engine certification and military engine qualification. I have held Whittle`s engine test logs in my hand. It is rocket science, to be sure. And even with hundreds of engineers and supercomputer fluid dynamics, stuff still doesn't go according to plan. Ever.
When I was young I thought everything was designed from scratch. Only later did I realize that nothing is designed from scratch. There's always a working unit that serves as the starting point. Great video Agent JZ. Always fun to listen to you
As a jet propulsion engineer, this was very amusing. Great job and choices of words, you’re 100% correct. I also own a few books from Mr. Mattingly that were part of my college courses, including the one you mentioned. Great books.
I am an engineer at a small jet engine manufacturer in our expansion department (everything combuster and aft). It can take weeks to just to change the tolerance on an engineering print by .002" because of how many people need to approve of changes. And I work on small engines, I can't imagine what the manufactures of the larger ones have to deal with. Engines are very complicated and it takes teams of people and a lot of time to design new engines. Even if you could design one by yourself, manufacturing one is an entire other story too. Tolerances on the shaft of an engine can approach .0002" and it takes a lot expensive equipment to manufacture parts that accurately. I think its pretty unrealistic for an individual to make a jet engine approaching the complexity of any production engine.
I can only see failure for and individual. There are just so many thing you have to have better then a rudimentary knowledge of to get so many things to sing, so to speak! Now as for a hobbiest type turbine there could be a chance, maybe!? But then the machining it the toughest spot there! They are truly marvelous machines!
Designing a jet engine - sure, no problem. Building it according to the design - well, let's see. Making it run - uhm, not so sure about that. Preventing it from burning up - ok, _that's_ a challenge. Producing thrust - probably not. Making it run again, and again, and again for hours - yeah, I'd like to see that... Making a plane fly with that engine - I highly doubt it. Getting me on that plane - no way, dude! Oh, btw: Happy new year, to you, @agentjayz! All the best, for work, for making videos, for racing, for repairing speakers, mountain biking and whatever else there might be!
The Avon blade measurement at the end literally broke me 🤣🤣🤣.... I once saw the blueprint of this exact part and i have to say its a really impressive drawing. The curvature have 7-8 different profile with many more spline control point for each one of them......... and all that where created in the 50's without CAD !!! I have a LOT of respect to the engineers and machinist of these time. Good wake up call to those little budding genius !!
Well said. This reminds me of several people who have told me that because they flew a helicopter in a computer flight simulator, they could fly a real one. I challenged them to do the by offering to pay for an hour in a 206 without prompting from an instructor... but they had to pay me back double if the real pilot next to them had to touch the controls. They all backed down.
I spent my career in an Aerospace Foundry. Many of the parts in this series are from the industry and even the foundry I engineered for. The material science and metallurgy is supremely advanced. Alloys in jet engine construction are Titanium in the cold section and superalloys in the hot section. All of those alloys have to be cast in advanced vacuum induction and arc reduction furnaces. Those processes are completely beyond any home hobby project. You might make a small jet but it will not last and will be nothing but a hobby simulator.
Great work as always 👍 12:30 as a machinist I have had long arguments with engineers and designers about standardisation of parts ,some clown at a computer draws 330 non standard countersunk bolt dimensions and then wonders why the machinist wants to hit him over the head with a book of bolt standards ...🤣👍 (real life example ,not in any way related to building jet engines ,but a real life example of why designers need people checking their work BEFORE it goes to the machine shop...)
after 15 years of fiddling around with our self build rc jetengines, we are thinking of designing a bigger one. (mainly because the neighbors unimpressedness of the noise.) Now you scratch on my confidence a bit... But on the other hand, we do not expect to be better than anyone, it only needs to scare my self. I will read some more books and decide later... Happy new Year and thanks for the content and booktips and all
@@LanaaAmor We did build it, but we did not design it (we did buy the UT160 plans). I would like to design a bigger one, but its very hard.... I got a clip of it: ua-cam.com/video/849UjXGYSVU/v-deo.html
After 4 years of study at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University - Aerospace Engineering (Propulsion) - your senior (5th) year project is to do just that, design a turbo jet that functions on PAPER. It takes 5 of us 5 months to get that far with $1M worth of engineering software. And we don't even know if it will work in reality. Food for thought.....(5yrs at Riddle $250k)
I was privileged to be introduced to, and shake hands with, Hans Von Ohain during a short meet and greet ahead of a class that I was taking in the late 1980's. Really enjoyed his presentation.
With regards to measuring the length of a crankshaft, one time in my shop we received a compressor rotor from our customer's spares line and they asked us to prep it and install it in an overhaul we were doing for them. We visually inspected it, cleaned it, inspected it again as normal, Checked balance on it, and began the installation expecting zero problems. As we lowered the unit down towards the case it became apparent that it would never go in as the stages were not in their correct positions. After a ton of head-scratching followed by a very vigorous teardown inspection, we discovered "shop-X" had lapped the living daylights out of the compressor discs (TB5000) shortening the compressor rotor assembly by over .750 inches. Total scrap.
Again... your Burke/Asimov level of explanation and wit is on full display. I also break down technical details so people without the knowledge can digest them without their heads exploding. Well done.
If someone even wanted to begin to design their own jet engine, it would help to 1) have a mechanical engineering PhD, 2) Gather a team of CAD designers 3) Hire a fluid dynamics PhD 4) Hire an Electrical engineer and 5) Buy a $5 million dollar user license for CATIA and time in a NASA-like testing facility. However, design concept/type modifications as suggestions are just fine. Nobody gets harmed from the suggestion of a concept. They can either accept or reject it and then move on, easy peazy.
One of my first summer jobs was working in a spin-pit, balancing radial flow components for APUs. A ton of money invested for one small aspect of many. I encourage all jet engine developers to video their progress and tests... RUD (Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly) videos get a lot of hits on UA-cam. AgentJayZ - thanks for taking the time to prepare and post these videos, love the tech talks and history you bring. A dram is 1/16 of an oz. or about 1.77 grams. Happy New Year all!
I've waited patiently and it's finally our turn. The runway is ready, the airspace is ready, the throttles advance. the brakes release. I begin a journey of several hours that it might take a man on horseback several weeks to complete. As speed builds, a childish voice behind me says out loud what I always say in my head, "Yee Haw!" Perhaps a future technician or engineer with skills to help transform piles of ore and puddles of petroleum into this fantastic machine. Then I glance down the isle to see folks reading newspapers or listening to MP3 players. Don't they understand the extreme forces and temperatures at work just outside the windows? Sadly, they are missing out, the poor, misguided souls. Thanks for the inspirational New Year rantlet.
I agree. I wish there were cameras on top of the tail, at each wingtip, and underneath the plane showing the landing gear. Sadly, the committees have decided that the average passenger might be unsettled by that. Let's all be average, people!
@@AgentJayZ I've flown on a Malaysia Airlines A380 into/out of KL, on my way to/from Singapore. The do have a tailcam, so that you can watch on your screen. What I found a little unsettling was the tropical lightning of a distant storm.
Yeah, Igor Neroda is some kind of genius though. But bear in mind that all he aimed it to do was work for a while - no efficiency considerations or durability or anything other than having it work and produce thrust. Still, he did fly it on an RC plane he built himself. He's some kind of genius, like I said.
Turbine design is basically rocket science :D There's a reason why top turbine engineers were hired at the beginning of the space race to help design new rocket engines that would take humans into space. The key to rocket engines at the time was new turbo/tubine pumps.
Came for a rant and wasn't disappointed, great start to the new year! Gave out the compressor dimension.... of a turbine blade. I know you were testing to see who was paying attention.
I am en electronics design engineer. I have also designed some mechanical systems for commercial jets. For a laugh I decided to try and make a "bean can" jet engine. The best I managed was 0.6ish pounds of thrust for somewhere between 25 and 27 seconds before it destroyed itself. That's with mad maths skills and a good knowledge of design processes (though not the specifics of turbojets). To mnake things easier it used propane and brass ring burner with v shaped steel flame holder (bent in a circle which was a complete game). Colin Furze managed to make some better engines but they need way more in terms of oil pumps and all sorts. Even then he maxes out at 100 pounds thrust or so and it guzzles fuel like a mad thing (as did mine). I worked out that mine had about 1% of the efficiency of a Williams FJ44. So though you "can" get something that sort of works, JZ is absolute,y correct in that it takes a large specialist team ages to get an engine right. I live near the RR plant and know some of the engineers, and one I used to drink with a lot spent two years on one compressor blade to get it to the point where RR were happy with the performance. That's two years for a guy to get just one of several blade types right. Apparently the turbine blades are a lot more difficult.
As one of those people who are undertaking this kind of endeavor, reading the books Jay presented and getting intimately familiar with a 3D printer should be your first steps, followed shortly after by forgetting everything you know about internal combustion engines and how they may benefit your wild design, because almost nothing short of metal fatigue and the general principles of combustion will transfer. I'm 2 years into my process, have 3 massive redesigns under my belt, an entire workshop of parts surrounding me, and a giant hole where my bank account used to be. After finally finding a breakthrough that perhaps could/should make an evolutionary breakthrough of the next generation of engines that can be made for multiple platforms, I will tell you that packaging and new materials are almost certainly the two most obvious areas where one can find the most benefit to 'reinventing' the wheel, provided you can scale it both up and down. Also be prepared to fail and fail often, learn from your mistakes and improve from your failures. I hope to have my failures on display when I finally get this prototype ready to unveil to the world that should make an interesting museum entryway exhibit. Your processes you develop will also have more impact and possibly benefit your bottom line far more than the end product itself, so get ready to learn about protecting trade secrets along with becoming an engineer, machinist, chemist and any number of other specialists. Lastly, be prepared for everyone in your life to call you a whackjob and expect constant ridicule. =/
Sir, it appears to me that you have quite a good grasp of the magnitude of the project. I wish you success, and I would love to see some pics or videos of your adventure.
@@AgentJayZ One of these days when I have a bunch of downtime, I definitely need to organize my build process media and make it into a discernible presentation, but in the meantime I can find some interesting snaps of the composite work and send those to an email box near you. Thank you for the kind words and your continued efforts to educate the world at large.
I heard Dr. Hans Von Ohain speak in person about developing the jet engine. Lots of work and required the facilities of hieklel to get an actual working engine. Dr. Von Ohian started with crude proof of concepts to show that it might be able to be built at first. one of his biggest problems early on was getting liquid fuel to burn, he developed his very first engines using natural gas as a fuel. Dr. Von Ohain was a great guy. I am grateful that I had the honor of hearing him speak .
In contrast, Frank Whittle used kerosene and even his first engine was far more robust than von Ohain's sheet metal device, and went through numerous rebuilds. Sadly, I was never able to meet Sir Frank in person, although I saw him when he was present for the rededication of Whittle House at R-R Bristol. I have watched numerous documentaries about him over the years, of course, as I effectively owe my career to him. I have since met his son, Ian, on two occasions, when he has given lectures on the life and work of his father. He very kindly signed a copy of his father's book, 'Jet: The Story of a Pioneer', for me.
Yeah, my experience in product design and manufacturing taught me that everything works perfect in concept, in principal and will sell fantastic. In reality the devil is in the details. That's when you learn that nature is under no obligation to follow your speculation and the customer is under no obligation to be impressed by your hard work. Nature will do its best to see you fail and you have a mountain of odds to overcome.
I only needed two books to design my engine. "Gas Tubine Theory 4th Edition" by Cohen, Rogers, and Saravanamutto and "Gas Turbine Combustion" by Lefebvre. These are not introductory books and assume you know thermodynamics and have an engineering mindset. But everything is covered. Mine is a 300mm inlet engine. So APU scales, but will be using a free power turbine output. My advice to beginners is to make a automotive turbo engine first. It's been done a million times, yea, but the theory and design is only half of it. Combustor design is generations tribal knowledge and not methodically engineered as the compressor or turbine. Automotive turbo gas turbines use can style combustors which are easy to iterate on. Get good at that first, then go bigger and more expensive. Why blow more money on R&D than you have to?
You will need a lot more than that. Cohen and Rogers (before Saravanamuttoo joined in), plus Rogers and Mayhew, plus a few more books, plus a degree course in mechanical engineering, plus a five-year apprenticeship might help. And then, after 41 years you will be some good at it, provided you are a member of a good team of gas turbine engineers.
I don't think too many people will understand where the answer of 42 came from! It will take awhile for the computer to come up with that number and you will have to remember what it was that you were trying to calculate in the first place.
I was working with turbojets and turboshafts. My ambition was to design my own jet engine form scratch. Considering available resources I could fund model jet engine size development. So I took a challenge, as designer, machinist, technologist. It takes 9 years working part time in hobby project, building three prototypes - 1st was forced to work by extreme EGT, 2nd - work well at idle conditions, 3rd - work as expected good acceleration, low temperatures, reliable. Only compressor wheel was took from turbocharger, diffuser,combustor, axial turbine was my design. Designing small turbines you would be limited by available bearings, and available of round bar of Inconell.
All the best for 2021 ----A Dram inch, it is well explained below, my preference would be a "wee dram" I imagine a few of those went down well last night, and not only in Scotland.
Absolutely correct. I, for one, had a "wee dram" last night watching the London fireworks on TV. However, perhaps I shouldn't use that description, as it was distilled on Dartmoor.
this video would easily apply to me when I was younger. I actually submitted my MS paint drawings to the Canadian air-force.. I still cringe about it now-a-days.. but hey, I've learned from that, and continue to learn, so that's progress I guess.
In my study program as a mechanical engineer there are two subjects that in total are worth 25 credits ... 1 credits are worth 25 hours between lessons, exercises and average personal study ... they make a total of 525 hours of study on average ... these two subjects serve only to carry out the objectives of the first step of the development of a jet engine. I say this to point out that to make any engine there is a lot to know and a lot to study and I think that those who want to design a jet engine by themselves have certainly not made suitable studies, otherwise they would never have come here to ask the questions I heard in this video.
I love this video. I feel your pain on this topic in my own field (electronics), and also lately in discussing politics... "Just a little hand-waving and a good marketing slogan, and we can change the world..." Yeah, it doesn't work like that. Better to spend that money and effort somewhere else, but convincing people of that is a challenge I no longer accept.
I think people confuse being able to work on something vs knowing how to design it. The amount of time spent on the design of a part let alone a section of an engine is massive. A jet engine mass produced is a 10-30m asset. That should reflect the complexity involved in design. A piston engine is literally 1000 times simpler.
You're such a smart aleck, I love it! I'm also interested in designing my own jet engine. My my goals are not quite as lofty. Something fairly small that can fly and won't get me blown up. I still feel like that's a reach, though. I'm interested in doing so for the learning experience, not for the end product.
The most successful builders of what you're describing start with a turbocharger and focus on the design of the combustor. They usually run propane for fuel, because it easy to make a good fuel nozzle for it.
Man-or-Astroman?! A great band! I had the opportunity to see them at the Horseshoe Tavern in Toronto years back, they referred to themselves as 'a poor man's Shadowy Men' with much praise given to that band, they even covered a shadowy men song, with members of that band in the audience as well.. they had Tesla coils on stage, the whole bit.. was super awesome. The methodology and passion with which you approach your stuff is similar to the way I approach the maintenance of restored and very old large CNC routers.. lots of facts, stories, wisdom, and it's fun.. thanks for sharing this stuff!
I found a copy of EEVIAC at the library prior to the widespread adoption of high speed internet and didn't understand what the title was referencing until i asked my grandfather, who somehow knew things about the ENIAC. Dredging up childhood memories here.
I agree with assertion one shouldn't check something off a list until it's done. Checklists can help keep you from screwing up and forgetting something. But it won't do its job if you screw up the checklist by not using it properly. Geez, I sound like my dad. 🤣🤣🤣
Wearing a wooly hat and in short sleeves. I like Canadians. Thank you for your videos which I discovered yesterday. I have only ever been a passenger sitting between two or four jet engines, and only now I know how much I didn't know about them.
The standard answer is: if you have to ask for a solution in a youtube comment, it is clear you haven't done even your most basic preparation on a topic.
blipbloop1000 this comment was obviously a joke, but the theoretical warp drive doesn’t need to overcome those issues. You are “warping” space technically you aren’t moving across faster than light because the space is moving under you. Kinda like a black hole can prevent light from escaping because space is “falling” into the hole faster than the speed of light
@@patjohn775 hmmm I see your point, but getting the mass of the warping zone to less than 0, while moving it faster than light still leaves you with the same problem. I suspect leveraging some form of hysteresis is too much to hope for.
Watching the broaching machines at P&WA E. Hartford was amazing. A large machine that was incredibly quiet. Cut the fir trees in the turbine disks. I think they are now machined on a multi axis CNC machine.
I feel like your talk about the work that goes into designing a jet engine is a good analogy for how the economy works. No one person produces a world-changing revolutionary business. While a new business idea can be designed and built by one or two people, it will be small, inefficient, and not much better than the other ways of doing business already in use. It takes thousands of people working together over hundreds of thousands of man hours to build a business which has the reach to change the shape of an economy. The only difference is that we falsely give the credit to just one person for so many revolutionary things that businesses have achieved, where we recognize that no one person "invented" the jet engine, much less the modern incarnations of jet engines.
This was a brilliant rant, and the 42 at the end is priceless. On the other hand, computer simulations, metal 3d printing, and simply knowledge is so widely and easily available that I would not discount the chance of a self-starter enthusiast to be able to significantly contribute with determination, perseverance, and a large dose of luck.
You come up with some of the best content. It's almost got me inspired enough to see if I can engineer a solution that would use something like a RB-211 to heat up my day-old pizza. Eat your heart out, Rube Goldberg.
AgentJayZ is simply GOLD! Knowledgeable, a natural teacher and a and laugh out loud sense of humour! Thank you :). Some of his responses to comments are priceless!!!
Recently I calculated the cost in hours to complete an Experimental Aircraft design, which I've completed a basic preliminary design and performance estimate on already. It would takes no less than 3,000 man hours just to complete the detail design. But before that, I need to invest about $20,000 and 1000 hours to acquiring the composite/carbon fiber data before it can even be designed in the first place. Otherwise I'm detail-designing a structure with unknown material. In order to build the molds and tooling required, another 1000+ man hours. Then another 1000+ man hours to build the composite parts. Any machining would be outsourced at $135+ an hour, times maybe 20-50 hours. 2,000+ man hours to assemble everything. Oh yeah, and that's as much as $60,000 in carbon fiber for molds and aircraft parts. And another $40k for engine, $20-30k for instruments. $10-20K for landing gear and misc parts. This is for a single seat, 210hp aircraft with a 23' wingspan weighing 1600lbs. It's impractical to design andbuild your own anything. An engine is FAR more complex than an airplane with a premade motor. And I'm talking a piston engine not a jet engine. Your better off buying the Williams for aprox $1M USD. 2,000lb thrust or so, very very low fuel burn for a turbine of that size. Half the fuel needed over the old J85 based small jets engines. So it will easily pay for itself in reduced fuel over it's life... If you don't need that much thrust just get those model RC jet engines like that flying man uses and the wing suit guy has. 4x engines at 200lb+ thrust each will make your skateboard damn near supersonic.
Also look at the engine for the Sonex Subsonic kit aircraft. Engine is ~$60k, fuel burn is not bad for a turbojet. Hot section needs to be inspected every 300 - 350 hours though. The PBS TJ-100 in this configuration produces 240 lbs of thrust.
Keep an eye on Hill Helicopter's new turbine design. The entire helicopter is proposed to be under half a million, and it's an all-new engine design by experienced turbine designers. This would be a turboprop if it was fitted to a fixed-wing.
Dram inches is what you get when you try to engineer your jet engine using a system of weights and measurements that was cutting edge in the late 1500's. 1 dram = 27.34 grains x 64.79891 mg/grain = 1771.602199 mg / 1000 mg/g = 1.771602199 g / 1000 g /kg = 0.001771602199 kg x 9.81 m/s^2 = 0.017379418 newtons. Whew, we've got a force, half way there, now we just need a length of moment arm to get our torque. 1 inch(industrial, Swedish, Johansonn's) = 25.4 mm / 1000 mm / m = 0.0254 m. Multiplying, we get 0.000441437 newton meters = 1 dram-inch. From this we can deduce that in addition to being clever, motivated, and inspired chaps, the fellows designing early British jet engines were also completely barking mad! Barking mad, and ever so very, very British. Mad? Yes, mad I say, unless you ALWAYS remember if that grain/dram/ounce/pound was supposed to be mass or force, and no, it's not always obvious from context. Eh, who knows, maybe they coped by being very strict about always using slugs for mass.
Showing my age, a dram is a 10th of an ounce, if you stay in imperial units it works as long as you remember all the conversion factors, metric is a little better. I the context of an engine dram inches is probably referring to balance. I grew up with imperial units then went metric I use whatever gives reasonable numbers
@@grahamj9101 No problem it would have been 30 years ago that I last used them, even grains which are popular in cartridge reloading are obscure nowadays.
they would also need to know about Thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and heat transfer how can you build a jet engine that revolutionizes the world if you don't know what the max theoretical limit of efficiency that an particular engine can have
And after they have done all of that on the design part. They will have to Manufacture it.. 🤣🤣🤣 that’s where they will realise they need another life time.. 🥲
I recommend Sir Stanley Hooker's excellent autobiography. Not much of an Engineer. From the Sptifire supercharger to the Whittle engine to the RB211. Its quite a tale!
I love how some people seem to think we live in some electronic punk fiction where anyone can make incredible tech in their garage. Like Anakin Skywalker or something.
I am not sure if I was supposed to laugh my ass off or not, but I surely enjoyed this one. I am only a semi-serious enthusiast with gas turbines, which I continue to look upon with wonder. Cutaway drawings are the tip of a very beautiful iceberg here. When you get to computational fluid dynamics and supers, you really appreciate how much you must rely on experimentation and upon trial and error in this endeavor, which really says, we don't really know all of what is going on, so we tell stories and fabricate parts so we can find out how the story ends. Love your channel.
Literally have everyone of those books and more... one could probably cobble together a 1st generation engine from published data. The vast amount of proprietary data that's actually used to make a real engine is locked up in the big boys design offices. But every year low price CFD software is pushing the boundaries of what can be simulated. I think it's only a matter of time before someone does it.
The thing is those big boys are already using the most advanced software to improve their designs. Though it would be awesome if someone found a new way to do things.
Love this vid and is a great pointer of the reality of the engineering world. I work in mechatronics/robotics and even the smallest of tiny minor decisions is made by and gets input from multiple brains. Look up the dunning kruger effect aka the realization of most things are never as simple as it might seam.
I built a Tin can jet engine out of a steel window cleaner spray can, it has 4 fan stages and 4 stater stages and i made the combustion chamber out of a bicycle hub I ground dow in inlet sidedown to the base of the hub, also, I lined the hub with a cone peace of sheet metal to act as a compression chamber, and 3 exhaust fan blades and 3 stater exhaust blades and a rear exhaust cone! I was inspired from watching all of your UA-cam videos! @AgentJayZ
Thanks for the laughs and the interesting read. What I think you have not even mentioned all , next to all the math, physics, fluid dynamics, metallurgy, engineering, ... is the legal field: patents. I am not an expert on the topic but I suspect there to be thousands of patents around every single system in a jet engine that you have to potentially violate when you want to commercialize your "self designed" engine. So even if you get your engine up and flying (which you won't) be prepared for some really nasty cease and desist letters in the mailbox.
I have a copy of Mattingly's book. Can confirm. Lots of math. People get PhDs in individual sub-disciplines related to processes that occur inside these feats of engineering. I even took a swing at trying to get a self-sustaining engine running using food cans as the primary building material. The engine never worked. But it was certainly not a waste of time: I learned a lot.
As GE was given an operational British Power Jets W.2B engine (2485 lbf thrust) to get things going, it may be fair game to say GE has *never* produced a single jet engine "completely from scratch". Moving forward, some Boeing 777 models use GE90-115 engines. At 127,900 lbf rated thrust, it's considered the 2nd most powerful production engine. Each engine produces twice the power of all the steam engines on the Titanic, combined, or as the LM9000, 65MW (power for roughly 6500 homes). A steal at $27.5MM apiece. Save your bottle caps, kiddos! For the record, the GE9X takes the prize as most powerful engine at 134,300 lbf thrust. That's a lot of incremental improvements from a design "borrowed" in 1941!
@@trevoncowen9198 I believe you're taking my comment out of context. First, at the time, the war was still underway, and GE didn't have access to that tech *out of the gate.* Second, I'm not trying to insinuate there are *no* revolutionary increments in the jet engine timeline. There have been many substantial improvements along the way, but given *this* technology, where *exactly* do you draw the line? And let me be *very* clear, I'm *only* talking about concept, *NOT* engineering difficulty. The details to work out bringing the idea to life deserves much admiration and respect. Compressors. Axial vs. centrifugal. Both types were known, so is it revolutionary to say "hey, let's try the other kind"? Spools. Ok, were getting closer. Again, we have one spinny thing we already know, so what if we put 2, or 3 independent, and speed optimized spinny things, rotating on the same shaft? Combustors. This is probably the closest thing to revolutionary we have. We have a bunch of separate heat sources arranged in a circle. Can we make this into a contiguous curtain of heat? Ultimately, it's all about your definition of evolutionary vs. revolutionary.
@@trevoncowen9198 Thanks! Yours too! BTW: refresh my comment. I accidentally posted before I was done composing. Yes, I think we're saying the same thing.
Lucky for him I’m not just doing a turbojet. I’m making concepts for a engine that goes from turbojet to ramjet to scramjet that’s a part of a hypercruising jet concept (so like supercruising but on crack)
remember once you get to burning compressed forced air you are looking at temps approaching 150,000 degrees C ... and probably higher ... and dont forget a turbo jet scramjet will pair nice as they BOTH have parts inside ... while a ramairjet or ramjet has NO MOVING PARTS .. so unless you plan on building a transformer ... you have to account for that
To avoid copy right issues from radio play in the background. Get royalty free music from UA-cam and add it to your video in post. It can be as loud as you want but doesn't have to be very loud at all to confuse the copyright bots. The sound remover tool they offer when you click on the copyright notification works pretty good too.
Hope your dog didn't fall off his/her bike ;-) Thanks for a well aimed rant. There are far too many around who think things are simple, then get stuck in the deep brown goo when someone gives them an answer they don't understand.
Ha! Thanks for the (mild) & funny rant. clips. standard modern issue, the internet has helped create the persistence of ignorance , so that majority for people now under estimate the difficulty gaining any hard acquired skill or knowledge. First point to the misguided is if a multi-million dollar company with hundreds of experienced engineers can’t make a better engine= profitable engine ... why do you think you can??!! Someone saying they can “revolutionise jet engines” are just saying they are so dumb they don’t understand the level of complexity involved in designing one. Thanks for sharing your hard earned knowledge 😁. All the best for the new year.
most badass presentation possible of all time. all of mankind could learn much from this if they listen to what you say and not the words that are spoken! agent jz for village witchdoctor!
Yepp, Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) never worked on what we would call jet engines, they were a bunch of guys playing with solid fuel rockets for Jet Assisted Take Off. JPL can also read Jack Parson Laboratory, he was an interesting dude.
This Guy is superly gifted!!!!! I feel awed every time he tries to dissect engines. Agent JayZ, Keep on bringing it! I'd love you to also check your email for veekindigo. Cheers
I am an professional Aeronautical engineer. Currently i work for Rolls Royce Civil large engines. Believe me designing a whole jet is not a small job, it take 10-15 years of research and thousands of engineers hardwork 🔥
Thanks for using your amazing skills for such good purposes!!!
As an engineer, I appreciate your effort to convey just how much knowledge goes into high tech items. I was an engineer at McDonnell Douglas, and later at Caterpillar. I worked with so many smart people in so many different areas of expertise that it was truly humbling. It was a joy to work with so many clever people. Hopefully some of your viewers will go into these areas of study, make contributions, and share their stories.
And I'm still struggling to get into my dream job 😂
@@unexploredmind5550 it might have been easier when Ronald Reagan was throwing tons of money at the defense industry. It should also be noted that funding for aerospace comes and goes very quickly, so you have to be prepared to use Plan B. Good luck!
I was always impressed by your restraint when questions of this sort showed up. I'm impressed that you were able to prevent this from becoming a bit of rant.
Well, I don't ever want to discourage anyone. Someday, somebody is going to revolutionize the world, and I don't want to reduce that persons chances at success, or even delay them.
@@AgentJayZ I hope you have apprentices who work with you from time to time. You're just born to teach. For my part - I'll never mess with a gas turbine engine - but I really enjoy listening to your obvious passion for the subject. And it's cool to surprise my youngest (in US Army rotary wing training) with power plant knowledge. Got to keep the youngsters on their toes!
My day job is commercial jet engine certification and military engine qualification. I have held Whittle`s engine test logs in my hand. It is rocket science, to be sure. And even with hundreds of engineers and supercomputer fluid dynamics, stuff still doesn't go according to plan. Ever.
Always good to hear from professionals in the biz.
When I was young I thought everything was designed from scratch. Only later did I realize that nothing is designed from scratch. There's always a working unit that serves as the starting point. Great video Agent JZ. Always fun to listen to you
As a jet propulsion engineer, this was very amusing. Great job and choices of words, you’re 100% correct. I also own a few books from Mr. Mattingly that were part of my college courses, including the one you mentioned. Great books.
I am an engineer at a small jet engine manufacturer in our expansion department (everything combuster and aft). It can take weeks to just to change the tolerance on an engineering print by .002" because of how many people need to approve of changes. And I work on small engines, I can't imagine what the manufactures of the larger ones have to deal with. Engines are very complicated and it takes teams of people and a lot of time to design new engines. Even if you could design one by yourself, manufacturing one is an entire other story too. Tolerances on the shaft of an engine can approach .0002" and it takes a lot expensive equipment to manufacture parts that accurately. I think its pretty unrealistic for an individual to make a jet engine approaching the complexity of any production engine.
I agree, and it's always good to hear from a professional in the biz!
I can only see failure for and individual. There are just so many thing you have to have better then a rudimentary knowledge of to get so many things to sing, so to speak! Now as for a hobbiest type turbine there could be a chance, maybe!? But then the machining it the toughest spot there! They are truly marvelous machines!
Designing a jet engine - sure, no problem.
Building it according to the design - well, let's see.
Making it run - uhm, not so sure about that.
Preventing it from burning up - ok, _that's_ a challenge.
Producing thrust - probably not.
Making it run again, and again, and again for hours - yeah, I'd like to see that...
Making a plane fly with that engine - I highly doubt it.
Getting me on that plane - no way, dude!
Oh, btw: Happy new year, to you, @agentjayz! All the best, for work, for making videos, for racing, for repairing speakers, mountain biking and whatever else there might be!
The Avon blade measurement at the end literally broke me 🤣🤣🤣.... I once saw the blueprint of this exact part and i have to say its a really impressive drawing. The curvature have 7-8 different profile with many more spline control point for each one of them......... and all that where created in the 50's without CAD !!! I have a LOT of respect to the engineers and machinist of these time. Good wake up call to those little budding genius !!
Well said.
This reminds me of several people who have told me that because they flew a helicopter in a computer flight simulator, they could fly a real one. I challenged them to do the by offering to pay for an hour in a 206 without prompting from an instructor... but they had to pay me back double if the real pilot next to them had to touch the controls.
They all backed down.
I spent my career in an Aerospace Foundry. Many of the parts in this series are from the industry and even the foundry I engineered for. The material science and metallurgy is supremely advanced. Alloys in jet engine construction are Titanium in the cold section and superalloys in the hot section. All of those alloys have to be cast in advanced vacuum induction and arc reduction furnaces. Those processes are completely beyond any home hobby project. You might make a small jet but it will not last and will be nothing but a hobby simulator.
Great work as always 👍 12:30 as a machinist I have had long arguments with engineers and designers about standardisation of parts ,some clown at a computer draws 330 non standard countersunk bolt dimensions and then wonders why the machinist wants to hit him over the head with a book of bolt standards ...🤣👍 (real life example ,not in any way related to building jet engines ,but a real life example of why designers need people checking their work BEFORE it goes to the machine shop...)
I have an idea for an upgrade on the Harrier engine. I will call it the Harriest.
Take a like and get out :P
Been there, done that, but didn't get a tee-shirt - and didn't even get my name in that book.
after 15 years of fiddling around with our self build rc jetengines, we are thinking of designing a bigger one. (mainly because the neighbors unimpressedness of the noise.) Now you scratch on my confidence a bit... But on the other hand, we do not expect to be better than anyone, it only needs to scare my self. I will read some more books and decide later...
Happy new Year and thanks for the content and booktips and all
you made your own rc jet engine? Designed it too??
@@LanaaAmor We did build it, but we did not design it (we did buy the UT160 plans). I would like to design a bigger one, but its very hard....
I got a clip of it:
ua-cam.com/video/849UjXGYSVU/v-deo.html
After 4 years of study at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University - Aerospace Engineering (Propulsion) - your senior (5th) year project is to do just that, design a turbo jet that functions on PAPER. It takes 5 of us 5 months to get that far with $1M worth of engineering software. And we don't even know if it will work in reality. Food for thought.....(5yrs at Riddle $250k)
And as to the title... Been there, done that, had to pay for the t-shirt in the bookstore......
@@TheWiseFool_ really awesome man ,i would have gone for aeronautical if i had a choice
I was privileged to be introduced to, and shake hands with, Hans Von Ohain during a short meet and greet ahead of a class that I was taking in the late 1980's. Really enjoyed his presentation.
With regards to measuring the length of a crankshaft, one time in my shop we received a compressor rotor from our customer's spares line and they asked us to prep it and install it in an overhaul we were doing for them. We visually inspected it, cleaned it, inspected it again as normal, Checked balance on it, and began the installation expecting zero problems. As we lowered the unit down towards the case it became apparent that it would never go in as the stages were not in their correct positions. After a ton of head-scratching followed by a very vigorous teardown inspection, we discovered "shop-X" had lapped the living daylights out of the compressor discs (TB5000) shortening the compressor rotor assembly by over .750 inches. Total scrap.
That's a great story. Expect the unexpected, eh?
Again... your Burke/Asimov level of explanation and wit is on full display. I also break down technical details so people without the knowledge can digest them without their heads exploding. Well done.
If someone even wanted to begin to design their own jet engine, it would help to 1) have a mechanical engineering PhD, 2) Gather a team of CAD designers 3) Hire a fluid dynamics PhD 4) Hire an Electrical engineer and 5) Buy a $5 million dollar user license for CATIA and time in a NASA-like testing facility.
However, design concept/type modifications as suggestions are just fine. Nobody gets harmed from the suggestion of a concept. They can either accept or reject it and then move on, easy peazy.
"So You Want to Design a Jet Engine?" Who doesn't?
Who aren't fascinated with the thought.
😅 seriously man
I thought I was the only one :o
One of my first summer jobs was working in a spin-pit, balancing radial flow components for APUs. A ton of money invested for one small aspect of many.
I encourage all jet engine developers to video their progress and tests... RUD (Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly) videos get a lot of hits on UA-cam.
AgentJayZ - thanks for taking the time to prepare and post these videos, love the tech talks and history you bring. A dram is 1/16 of an oz. or about 1.77 grams. Happy New Year all!
I've waited patiently and it's finally our turn.
The runway is ready, the airspace is ready, the throttles advance. the brakes release. I begin a journey of several hours that it might take a man on horseback several weeks to complete. As speed builds, a childish voice behind me says out loud what I always say in my head, "Yee Haw!" Perhaps a future technician or engineer with skills to help transform piles of ore and puddles of petroleum into this fantastic machine. Then I glance down the isle to see folks reading newspapers or listening to MP3 players. Don't they understand the extreme forces and temperatures at work just outside the windows? Sadly, they are missing out, the poor, misguided souls. Thanks for the inspirational New Year rantlet.
Marvelously-written and worth quoting. Thanks for brightening my day.
I agree. I wish there were cameras on top of the tail, at each wingtip, and underneath the plane showing the landing gear.
Sadly, the committees have decided that the average passenger might be unsettled by that. Let's all be average, people!
Don, please write a book.
@@AgentJayZ I've flown on a Malaysia Airlines A380 into/out of KL, on my way to/from Singapore. The do have a tailcam, so that you can watch on your screen. What I found a little unsettling was the tropical lightning of a distant storm.
I Saw a Russian youtuber build a model jet engine in a shed, most impressive show of solo craftsmanship and engineering I've ever seen
Can you please share his channel link with me
@@Shubhamsingh-lw5tv
Игорь Негода , this is the video ua-cam.com/video/dYFYZ-g7fzA/v-deo.html
Yeah, Igor Neroda is some kind of genius though.
But bear in mind that all he aimed it to do was work for a while - no efficiency considerations or durability or anything other than having it work and produce thrust.
Still, he did fly it on an RC plane he built himself.
He's some kind of genius, like I said.
@@anonpls9909 Wow that is some video, thanks for sharing
You have put more effort into this presentation than most of the wouuld-be designers have put into their projects to date.
Turbine design is basically rocket science :D There's a reason why top turbine engineers were hired at the beginning of the space race to help design new rocket engines that would take humans into space. The key to rocket engines at the time was new turbo/tubine pumps.
The five turbopumps on the Saturn V each produced more than 55,000 hp. Total, TWO HUNDRED SEVENTY-FIVE THOUSAND HORSE POWER, just for the fuel pumps.
@@av8bvma513 that's a lot of herspurz. I didn't know it was that much.
Came for a rant and wasn't disappointed, great start to the new year! Gave out the compressor dimension.... of a turbine blade. I know you were testing to see who was paying attention.
I am en electronics design engineer. I have also designed some mechanical systems for commercial jets. For a laugh I decided to try and make a "bean can" jet engine. The best I managed was 0.6ish pounds of thrust for somewhere between 25 and 27 seconds before it destroyed itself. That's with mad maths skills and a good knowledge of design processes (though not the specifics of turbojets). To mnake things easier it used propane and brass ring burner with v shaped steel flame holder (bent in a circle which was a complete game). Colin Furze managed to make some better engines but they need way more in terms of oil pumps and all sorts. Even then he maxes out at 100 pounds thrust or so and it guzzles fuel like a mad thing (as did mine). I worked out that mine had about 1% of the efficiency of a Williams FJ44. So though you "can" get something that sort of works, JZ is absolute,y correct in that it takes a large specialist team ages to get an engine right. I live near the RR plant and know some of the engineers, and one I used to drink with a lot spent two years on one compressor blade to get it to the point where RR were happy with the performance. That's two years for a guy to get just one of several blade types right. Apparently the turbine blades are a lot more difficult.
I've counted to infinity twice, but I can't imagine counting to infinity squared.
You're one of the smart ones...
As one of those people who are undertaking this kind of endeavor, reading the books Jay presented and getting intimately familiar with a 3D printer should be your first steps, followed shortly after by forgetting everything you know about internal combustion engines and how they may benefit your wild design, because almost nothing short of metal fatigue and the general principles of combustion will transfer. I'm 2 years into my process, have 3 massive redesigns under my belt, an entire workshop of parts surrounding me, and a giant hole where my bank account used to be. After finally finding a breakthrough that perhaps could/should make an evolutionary breakthrough of the next generation of engines that can be made for multiple platforms, I will tell you that packaging and new materials are almost certainly the two most obvious areas where one can find the most benefit to 'reinventing' the wheel, provided you can scale it both up and down. Also be prepared to fail and fail often, learn from your mistakes and improve from your failures. I hope to have my failures on display when I finally get this prototype ready to unveil to the world that should make an interesting museum entryway exhibit. Your processes you develop will also have more impact and possibly benefit your bottom line far more than the end product itself, so get ready to learn about protecting trade secrets along with becoming an engineer, machinist, chemist and any number of other specialists. Lastly, be prepared for everyone in your life to call you a whackjob and expect constant ridicule. =/
Sir, it appears to me that you have quite a good grasp of the magnitude of the project.
I wish you success, and I would love to see some pics or videos of your adventure.
@@AgentJayZ One of these days when I have a bunch of downtime, I definitely need to organize my build process media and make it into a discernible presentation, but in the meantime I can find some interesting snaps of the composite work and send those to an email box near you. Thank you for the kind words and your continued efforts to educate the world at large.
"The dimension of the compressor is.......42" 🤣 ahh jee thanks mister that's the number I was missing lmao Great vid
I heard Dr. Hans Von Ohain speak in person about developing the jet engine. Lots of work and required the facilities of hieklel to get an actual working engine. Dr. Von Ohian started with crude proof of concepts to show that it might be able to be built at first. one of his biggest problems early on was getting liquid fuel to burn, he developed his very first engines using natural gas as a fuel. Dr. Von Ohain was a great guy. I am grateful that I had the honor of hearing him speak .
In contrast, Frank Whittle used kerosene and even his first engine was far more robust than von Ohain's sheet metal device, and went through numerous rebuilds.
Sadly, I was never able to meet Sir Frank in person, although I saw him when he was present for the rededication of Whittle House at R-R Bristol. I have watched numerous documentaries about him over the years, of course, as I effectively owe my career to him.
I have since met his son, Ian, on two occasions, when he has given lectures on the life and work of his father. He very kindly signed a copy of his father's book, 'Jet: The Story of a Pioneer', for me.
Yeah, my experience in product design and manufacturing taught me that everything works perfect in concept, in principal and will sell fantastic. In reality the devil is in the details. That's when you learn that nature is under no obligation to follow your speculation and the customer is under no obligation to be impressed by your hard work. Nature will do its best to see you fail and you have a mountain of odds to overcome.
_17 people have their soup cans and tin snips ready to go._ ☝🤓
I only needed two books to design my engine. "Gas Tubine Theory 4th Edition" by Cohen, Rogers, and Saravanamutto and "Gas Turbine Combustion" by Lefebvre. These are not introductory books and assume you know thermodynamics and have an engineering mindset. But everything is covered.
Mine is a 300mm inlet engine. So APU scales, but will be using a free power turbine output.
My advice to beginners is to make a automotive turbo engine first. It's been done a million times, yea, but the theory and design is only half of it. Combustor design is generations tribal knowledge and not methodically engineered as the compressor or turbine. Automotive turbo gas turbines use can style combustors which are easy to iterate on. Get good at that first, then go bigger and more expensive. Why blow more money on R&D than you have to?
Looking forward to it changing the world - per the vid
@@anotheruser676 if that were the goal, sure.
You will need a lot more than that. Cohen and Rogers (before Saravanamuttoo joined in), plus Rogers and Mayhew, plus a few more books, plus a degree course in mechanical engineering, plus a five-year apprenticeship might help. And then, after 41 years you will be some good at it, provided you are a member of a good team of gas turbine engineers.
I don't think too many people will understand where the answer of 42 came from! It will take awhile for the computer to come up with that number and you will have to remember what it was that you were trying to calculate in the first place.
Oh, we’re around. Had my 42nd last year, Douglas Adams style! 😎
Only Hitchhikers will have a Thumb out for that one.
Holy Belgium, man! You need a shot of Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster.
I was working with turbojets and turboshafts. My ambition was to design my own jet engine form scratch. Considering available resources I could fund model jet engine size development. So I took a challenge, as designer, machinist, technologist. It takes 9 years working part time in hobby project, building three prototypes - 1st was forced to work by extreme EGT, 2nd - work well at idle conditions, 3rd - work as expected good acceleration, low temperatures, reliable. Only compressor wheel was took from turbocharger, diffuser,combustor, axial turbine was my design. Designing small turbines you would be limited by available bearings, and available of round bar of Inconell.
All the best for 2021 ----A Dram inch, it is well explained below, my preference would be a "wee dram" I imagine a few of those went down well last night, and not only in Scotland.
Absolutely correct. I, for one, had a "wee dram" last night watching the London fireworks on TV. However, perhaps I shouldn't use that description, as it was distilled on Dartmoor.
I mixed it up with some Speyside and Lynchburg Tn whiskies the later was mixed with a mandatory Coke, as one does with drinks from the colonies
this video would easily apply to me when I was younger. I actually submitted my MS paint drawings to the Canadian air-force.. I still cringe about it now-a-days.. but hey, I've learned from that, and continue to learn, so that's progress I guess.
When I was that young we only had wax crayons.
Every video my wife ask "why do you watch this channel?" I'm not sure why but I like him
In my study program as a mechanical engineer there are two subjects that in total are worth 25 credits ... 1 credits are worth 25 hours between lessons, exercises and average personal study ... they make a total of 525 hours of study on average ... these two subjects serve only to carry out the objectives of the first step of the development of a jet engine.
I say this to point out that to make any engine there is a lot to know and a lot to study and I think that those who want to design a jet engine by themselves have certainly not made suitable studies, otherwise they would never have come here to ask the questions I heard in this video.
I love this video.
I feel your pain on this topic in my own field (electronics), and also lately in discussing politics... "Just a little hand-waving and a good marketing slogan, and we can change the world..." Yeah, it doesn't work like that. Better to spend that money and effort somewhere else, but convincing people of that is a challenge I no longer accept.
I think people confuse being able to work on something vs knowing how to design it. The amount of time spent on the design of a part let alone a section of an engine is massive.
A jet engine mass produced is a 10-30m asset. That should reflect the complexity involved in design. A piston engine is literally 1000 times simpler.
the amount of facetiousness in this video is just right! you're awesome!
You're such a smart aleck, I love it!
I'm also interested in designing my own jet engine. My my goals are not quite as lofty. Something fairly small that can fly and won't get me blown up. I still feel like that's a reach, though. I'm interested in doing so for the learning experience, not for the end product.
The most successful builders of what you're describing start with a turbocharger and focus on the design of the combustor. They usually run propane for fuel, because it easy to make a good fuel nozzle for it.
Man-or-Astroman?! A great band! I had the opportunity to see them at the Horseshoe Tavern in Toronto years back, they referred to themselves as 'a poor man's Shadowy Men' with much praise given to that band, they even covered a shadowy men song, with members of that band in the audience as well.. they had Tesla coils on stage, the whole bit.. was super awesome.
The methodology and passion with which you approach your stuff is similar to the way I approach the maintenance of restored and very old large CNC routers.. lots of facts, stories, wisdom, and it's fun.. thanks for sharing this stuff!
Dim the lights, and chill the ham!
Kids in the Hall!
OK, let's get back to business...
I know a guy named Larry!
I'm building a tokamak fusion reactor for my high-school science fair project, can you provide any pointers?
Bagels, not donuts.
@@AgentJayZ loool
I found a copy of EEVIAC at the library prior to the widespread adoption of high speed internet and didn't understand what the title was referencing until i asked my grandfather, who somehow knew things about the ENIAC. Dredging up childhood memories here.
“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.” ~Aristotle
It must be Mao
I agree with assertion one shouldn't check something off a list until it's done. Checklists can help keep you from screwing up and forgetting something. But it won't do its job if you screw up the checklist by not using it properly. Geez, I sound like my dad. 🤣🤣🤣
Wearing a wooly hat and in short sleeves. I like Canadians.
Thank you for your videos which I discovered yesterday. I have only ever been a passenger sitting between two or four jet engines, and only now I know how much I didn't know about them.
The standard answer is: if you have to ask for a solution in a youtube comment, it is clear you haven't done even your most basic preparation on a topic.
This is true in almost every case, but sometimes I get some really good questions.
Happy New Year, thanks for all the videos this year, you’ve helped keep me sane. 🙂👍🏻
You are referring to the 'Dunning- Kreuger effect' often btw.
Happy new Year, thank you for all your videos, one of the best channels on You Tube!
Thanks!
I’m going to design a warp drive
Good luck
Me too can you suggest a work around for e=mc^2? I need m < 0 and c > 3x10^9.
blipbloop1000 this comment was obviously a joke, but the theoretical warp drive doesn’t need to overcome those issues. You are “warping” space technically you aren’t moving across faster than light because the space is moving under you. Kinda like a black hole can prevent light from escaping because space is “falling” into the hole faster than the speed of light
@@patjohn775 hmmm I see your point, but getting the mass of the warping zone to less than 0, while moving it faster than light still leaves you with the same problem. I suspect leveraging some form of hysteresis is too much to hope for.
31:00 - 31:50 ... literally the hardest I’ve laughed in the past year.
Watching the broaching machines at P&WA E. Hartford was amazing. A large machine that was incredibly quiet. Cut the fir trees in the turbine disks. I think they are now machined on a multi axis CNC machine.
I feel like your talk about the work that goes into designing a jet engine is a good analogy for how the economy works.
No one person produces a world-changing revolutionary business. While a new business idea can be designed and built by one or two people, it will be small, inefficient, and not much better than the other ways of doing business already in use. It takes thousands of people working together over hundreds of thousands of man hours to build a business which has the reach to change the shape of an economy.
The only difference is that we falsely give the credit to just one person for so many revolutionary things that businesses have achieved, where we recognize that no one person "invented" the jet engine, much less the modern incarnations of jet engines.
This was a brilliant rant, and the 42 at the end is priceless. On the other hand, computer simulations, metal 3d printing, and simply knowledge is so widely and easily available that I would not discount the chance of a self-starter enthusiast to be able to significantly contribute with determination, perseverance, and a large dose of luck.
Mechanics like this give piece of mind to the statement flying is the safest means of transport
You come up with some of the best content. It's almost got me inspired enough to see if I can engineer a solution that would use something like a RB-211 to heat up my day-old pizza.
Eat your heart out, Rube Goldberg.
Happy New Year, J !
AgentJayZ is simply GOLD! Knowledgeable, a natural teacher and a and laugh out loud sense of humour! Thank you :). Some of his responses to comments are priceless!!!
Thanks for the kind words!
Recently I calculated the cost in hours to complete an Experimental Aircraft design, which I've completed a basic preliminary design and performance estimate on already.
It would takes no less than 3,000 man hours just to complete the detail design. But before that, I need to invest about $20,000 and 1000 hours to acquiring the composite/carbon fiber data before it can even be designed in the first place. Otherwise I'm detail-designing a structure with unknown material.
In order to build the molds and tooling required, another 1000+ man hours.
Then another 1000+ man hours to build the composite parts.
Any machining would be outsourced at $135+ an hour, times maybe 20-50 hours.
2,000+ man hours to assemble everything.
Oh yeah, and that's as much as $60,000 in carbon fiber for molds and aircraft parts. And another $40k for engine, $20-30k for instruments. $10-20K for landing gear and misc parts.
This is for a single seat, 210hp aircraft with a 23' wingspan weighing 1600lbs.
It's impractical to design andbuild your own anything.
An engine is FAR more complex than an airplane with a premade motor.
And I'm talking a piston engine not a jet engine.
Your better off buying the Williams for aprox $1M USD. 2,000lb thrust or so, very very low fuel burn for a turbine of that size. Half the fuel needed over the old J85 based small jets engines. So it will easily pay for itself in reduced fuel over it's life...
If you don't need that much thrust just get those model RC jet engines like that flying man uses and the wing suit guy has. 4x engines at 200lb+ thrust each will make your skateboard damn near supersonic.
Also look at the engine for the Sonex Subsonic kit aircraft. Engine is ~$60k, fuel burn is not bad for a turbojet. Hot section needs to be inspected every 300 - 350 hours though. The PBS TJ-100 in this configuration produces 240 lbs of thrust.
@@ailijic that's a sweet little kit. Haha.
Keep an eye on Hill Helicopter's new turbine design. The entire helicopter is proposed to be under half a million, and it's an all-new engine design by experienced turbine designers. This would be a turboprop if it was fitted to a fixed-wing.
Excellent video! I wish each content creator made a video like this about their respective field. Happy new year!
I love this video, even more the "dimension" part !!
I mounted a bottle rocket on a balsa wood airplane. It actually flew, until the wings fell off.
What could be better!?!
At least the front didn't fall off
2020: the Year the Wings Fell Off.
Dram inches is what you get when you try to engineer your jet engine using a system of weights and measurements that was cutting edge in the late 1500's. 1 dram = 27.34 grains x 64.79891 mg/grain = 1771.602199 mg / 1000 mg/g = 1.771602199 g / 1000 g /kg = 0.001771602199 kg x 9.81 m/s^2 = 0.017379418 newtons. Whew, we've got a force, half way there, now we just need a length of moment arm to get our torque. 1 inch(industrial, Swedish, Johansonn's) = 25.4 mm / 1000 mm / m = 0.0254 m. Multiplying, we get 0.000441437 newton meters = 1 dram-inch. From this we can deduce that in addition to being clever, motivated, and inspired chaps, the fellows designing early British jet engines were also completely barking mad! Barking mad, and ever so very, very British. Mad? Yes, mad I say, unless you ALWAYS remember if that grain/dram/ounce/pound was supposed to be mass or force, and no, it's not always obvious from context. Eh, who knows, maybe they coped by being very strict about always using slugs for mass.
Showing my age, a dram is a 10th of an ounce, if you stay in imperial units it works as long as you remember all the conversion factors, metric is a little better. I the context of an engine dram inches is probably referring to balance. I grew up with imperial units then went metric I use whatever gives reasonable numbers
@@ValExperimenter I believe that it was/is 1/16 of an ounce.
@@grahamj9101 No problem it would have been 30 years ago that I last used them, even grains which are popular in cartridge reloading are obscure nowadays.
they would also need to know about Thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and heat transfer
how can you build a jet engine that revolutionizes the world if you don't know what the max theoretical limit of efficiency that an particular engine can have
And after they have done all of that on the design part. They will have to Manufacture it.. 🤣🤣🤣 that’s where they will realise they need another life time.. 🥲
42, the new golden number :-) ;-)
I love your channel.
Geeting from France
I recommend Sir Stanley Hooker's excellent autobiography. Not much of an Engineer. From the Sptifire supercharger to the Whittle engine to the RB211. Its quite a tale!
Bringing some hard, and very necessary truths.
I love how some people seem to think we live in some electronic punk fiction where anyone can make incredible tech in their garage. Like Anakin Skywalker or something.
I am not sure if I was supposed to laugh my ass off or not, but I surely enjoyed this one. I am only a semi-serious enthusiast with gas turbines, which I continue to look upon with wonder. Cutaway drawings are the tip of a very beautiful iceberg here. When you get to computational fluid dynamics and supers, you really appreciate how much you must rely on experimentation and upon trial and error in this endeavor, which really says, we don't really know all of what is going on, so we tell stories and fabricate parts so we can find out how the story ends. Love your channel.
Literally have everyone of those books and more... one could probably cobble together a 1st generation engine from published data. The vast amount of proprietary data that's actually used to make a real engine is locked up in the big boys design offices. But every year low price CFD software is pushing the boundaries of what can be simulated. I think it's only a matter of time before someone does it.
The thing is those big boys are already using the most advanced software to improve their designs. Though it would be awesome if someone found a new way to do things.
First AvE and now AgentJayZ what is it with me and slightly mad Canadian sheds in workshops.
Love the Man or Astroman shout out! I've been listening to them for so long. Something about their album art appeals to me as an engineer. :-)
Love this vid and is a great pointer of the reality of the engineering world. I work in mechatronics/robotics and even the smallest of tiny minor decisions is made by and gets input from multiple brains. Look up the dunning kruger effect aka the realization of most things are never as simple as it might seam.
I built a Tin can jet engine out of a steel window cleaner spray can, it has 4 fan stages and 4 stater stages and i made the combustion chamber out of a bicycle hub I ground dow in inlet sidedown to the base of the hub, also, I lined the hub with a cone peace of sheet metal to act as a compression chamber, and 3 exhaust fan blades and 3 stater exhaust blades and a rear exhaust cone! I was inspired from watching all of your UA-cam videos!
@AgentJayZ
Bargle crackle. There no fans in the exhaust.
Whatever a stater exhaust blade is, I want one, to chop up my bacon.
Mmmm, bacon!
@@AgentJayZ Mebbe it goes on yer tater?
Thanks for the laughs and the interesting read. What I think you have not even mentioned all , next to all the math, physics, fluid dynamics, metallurgy, engineering, ... is the legal field: patents. I am not an expert on the topic but I suspect there to be thousands of patents around every single system in a jet engine that you have to potentially violate when you want to commercialize your "self designed" engine. So even if you get your engine up and flying (which you won't) be prepared for some really nasty cease and desist letters in the mailbox.
I have a copy of Mattingly's book.
Can confirm. Lots of math.
People get PhDs in individual sub-disciplines related to processes that occur inside these feats of engineering.
I even took a swing at trying to get a self-sustaining engine running using food cans as the primary building material. The engine never worked. But it was certainly not a waste of time: I learned a lot.
I recall from college my friends with major in jet engines had a full year to design a jet engine in the fifth year of college
As GE was given an operational British Power Jets W.2B engine (2485 lbf thrust) to get things going, it may be fair game to say GE has *never* produced a single jet engine "completely from scratch".
Moving forward, some Boeing 777 models use GE90-115 engines. At 127,900 lbf rated thrust, it's considered the 2nd most powerful production engine. Each engine produces twice the power of all the steam engines on the Titanic, combined, or as the LM9000, 65MW (power for roughly 6500 homes). A steal at $27.5MM apiece. Save your bottle caps, kiddos!
For the record, the GE9X takes the prize as most powerful engine at 134,300 lbf thrust. That's a lot of incremental improvements from a design "borrowed" in 1941!
@@trevoncowen9198 I believe you're taking my comment out of context. First, at the time, the war was still underway, and GE didn't have access to that tech *out of the gate.* Second, I'm not trying to insinuate there are *no* revolutionary increments in the jet engine timeline. There have been many substantial improvements along the way, but given *this* technology, where *exactly* do you draw the line? And let me be *very* clear, I'm *only* talking about concept, *NOT* engineering difficulty. The details to work out bringing the idea to life deserves much admiration and respect.
Compressors. Axial vs. centrifugal. Both types were known, so is it revolutionary to say "hey, let's try the other kind"?
Spools. Ok, were getting closer. Again, we have one spinny thing we already know, so what if we put 2, or 3 independent, and speed optimized spinny things, rotating on the same shaft?
Combustors. This is probably the closest thing to revolutionary we have. We have a bunch of separate heat sources arranged in a circle. Can we make this into a contiguous curtain of heat?
Ultimately, it's all about your definition of evolutionary vs. revolutionary.
@@trevoncowen9198 Thanks! Yours too!
BTW: refresh my comment. I accidentally posted before I was done composing.
Yes, I think we're saying the same thing.
Dunning-Kruger comes to mind.
Lucky for him I’m not just doing a turbojet. I’m making concepts for a engine that goes from turbojet to ramjet to scramjet that’s a part of a hypercruising jet concept (so like supercruising but on crack)
remember once you get to burning compressed forced air you are looking at temps approaching 150,000 degrees C ... and probably higher ... and dont forget a turbo jet scramjet will pair nice as they BOTH have parts inside ... while a ramairjet or ramjet has NO MOVING PARTS .. so unless you plan on building a transformer ... you have to account for that
I think your motor sounds super easy to design. It's been a couple of years. Are finished building it yet?
To avoid copy right issues from radio play in the background. Get royalty free music from UA-cam and add it to your video in post. It can be as loud as you want but doesn't have to be very loud at all to confuse the copyright bots. The sound remover tool they offer when you click on the copyright notification works pretty good too.
Hope your dog didn't fall off his/her bike ;-)
Thanks for a well aimed rant. There are far too many around who think things are simple, then get stuck in the deep brown goo when someone gives them an answer they don't understand.
42 is a good answer. Make sure you know where your towel is! :-) Merry 2021!
And watch out for the Vogon Constructor Fleet.
hope you have a happy new year :)
I think you're understating the difficulties involved.
I agree with you entirely.
Now this is the teacher I want in my schoo
Drahm is one eighth of an ounce you are so welcome
When I were a lad, I worked in Gloucester Road. But not at the Filton end
Down at Engines?
Ha! Thanks for the (mild) & funny rant. clips. standard modern issue, the internet has helped create the persistence of ignorance , so that majority for people now under estimate the difficulty gaining any hard acquired skill or knowledge. First point to the misguided is if a multi-million dollar company with hundreds of experienced engineers can’t make a better engine= profitable engine ... why do you think you can??!! Someone saying they can “revolutionise jet engines” are just saying they are so dumb they don’t understand the level of complexity involved in designing one. Thanks for sharing your hard earned knowledge 😁. All the best for the new year.
Ok, ok I get it. So a rocket engine it is.
Eh, basically just advanced plumbing, piece of cake
Happy new year! DRAM FLUID INCH= 0.226" cubic inch
most badass presentation possible of all time. all of mankind could learn much from this if they listen to what you say and not the words that are spoken! agent jz for village witchdoctor!
you can't design a gas turbine, but you can design a pulse jet or a solid fuel rocket (if you are smart.) Those are technically jets.
Sure.
Yepp, Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) never worked on what we would call jet engines, they were a bunch of guys playing with solid fuel rockets for Jet Assisted Take Off. JPL can also read Jack Parson Laboratory, he was an interesting dude.
A very irked AgentJayZ. Keep up the good work.
So, I can start with the layout. 👍😊
Happy new year!
4:00 etc. It is caller working professionally. Highly recommended when lives depend on the work. Yes, Sir!
This Guy is superly gifted!!!!! I feel awed every time he tries to dissect engines. Agent JayZ, Keep on bringing it! I'd love you to also check your email for veekindigo. Cheers