4 Year Update - Are Solar Panels for Home Still Worth It?
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- 4 year solar panel review - Are they still worth it? It’s been almost 4 years since I had solar panels installed on my house. To start comparing quotes and simplify insurance-buying, check out Policygenius: policygenius.com/undecided. Thanks to Policygenius for sponsoring this video! In general they’ve been performing pretty close to what was promised, but last year threw us some curveballs. I saw a pretty sharp decline in the amount of solar produced. Since my solar panels are nearing their 4 year anniversary, I thought it would be a good idea to revisit what I’ve learned living with solar panels in an area you might not think they’d be good for, as well as what happened last year. Do I still think getting solar panels was a good idea? Let’s see if we can come to a decision on this.
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I live in the Caribbean and can finally afford solar panels hopefully getting them installed this August or September
From 23 cents to 30 cents is a lot ? HAha.. How about from 8 cents to 30 here :D
i am getting solar from mine as it has 1200 square feet of south facing roof. i do have to take down some 90 foot tall pines on the west side but it will be just a few trees not the whole forest to increase afternoon sun. this will also help warm my pool and give my garden more light and move the tree line back a bit so these huge trees wont ginsu my house in a storm. so its a win win win.
If you want to get more light you can just cut your trees or try installing in your garden a hundred feet tall magnifying glass pointing to your roof.
How do you deal with snow on your solar panels in the winter?
I’ve had solar for almost 10 years. I live in Phoenix where the electricity bills are HUGE due to the extreme high temps. Summary - I’ve never had a bill over $15 a month, all of which are fees. This includes one electric car that we charge at home. By far getting solar was the BEST financial decision I made when I first bought my house. And now with gas at $5 a gallon…I’m killing it. Everything has already paid for itself - it’s all investment income at this point.
Sounds like a complete no-brainer for places like Phoenix. It's so nuts how long it's taken to catch wind.
Yep. I live in WV, not known for sunshine. Fully Electric 3200 sq.ft house and 2 Tesla's that average 40K miles per year combined. I've got 20Kw of solar installed and we pay a total of about $600 a year for the electricity we use and about 1/3rd of that is fees. The higher utility and gas prices go, the faster these systems pay off. I'm saving over $6,000 a year in gasoline right now and about $2,600/yr in home electric. Everyone should at least consider solar and see if it makes sense in their situation.
@BenBenson I'll answer based on my own situation (14.4kWh system with the same $15/mo charge which is all fees) - the grid is my battery. Batteries are really expensive. In NY with my utility company, I get 1:1 payback for each kW produced. So when I overproduce all summer long, I get that energy back in the winter and at night when I'm not producing, without having to store the energy myself. In addition, if a component fails and needs to be replaced, I have electricity from the grid while it's being fixed.
@BenBenson Because I don’t have a battery. Basically when the sun goes down, or when it’s cloudy, I still pull from the grid. But overall I produce more electricity than I can use and that excess goes back into the grid.
@BenBenson if you're connected to the grid you have to pay the fees. Yeah n many cases you don't have an option to NOT be connected to the grid. Just the way it goes.
One benefit from solar panels that no one seems to talk about is, in summer the actual panels block the sun from heating up the roof, therefore reduced cooling needed. Both my son and I have noticed this difference, which here in West Australia is important. Cheers
Well said! I am also here to learn how to invest after listening to a lady on tv talk about the importance of investing and how she made 7 figure in 3 month, somehow the video taught me nothing and left me even more confused, I'm a newbie and I'm open to ideas on how to invest for retirement
@@rajeshupadhyay5683
lookup Priscilla Dearmin-Turner, this is her name online, she's now the real investment prodigy since the crash and have help me recovered my loses
A news host spoke so highly of💕 Priscilla Dearmin-Turner and her loss prevention strategies been trying to get to her ever since didn’t know she was so accessible to the public
@@lezliewhicker8450Thank you, Going through her profile in her webpage, she smashed all her state certificate and accreditation🙏
I heard she always have a way of linking someone investment into something new and profitable?
Another thing you need to take into account in the summer. The sun is beating down on your panels NOT your roof !! There is a 2 inch or so air gap in there, so it keeps your attic air much cooler, meaning a lot less power needed to keep your house cool.
you need your attic to be hotter in the summer to keep your house cool
@@sjgiants80 how so? Wouldn't having a cooler attic in the summer be better for keeping the house cool?
@@sjgiants80 I noticed a reduction in the power consumption of my A/C system since putting the panels on my roof. It would appear that the shading of the roof helped to reduce the heat load on the house in general. With 22 panels on the South facing section of the roof, most of it is shaded now..
@@CtDDtC1919 Makes sense, the panels are absorbing not only light but heat.
@@CtDDtC1919 I have panels that cover the west roof on my house and this is the start of my 6th year with the panels. I had a couple years in the house before the panels and my house would get crazy hot in the evenings. I hoped that the panels would help slightly with that but they didnt seem to help at all. I have a bunaglow style house built in '59 so its only 2x4 walls (plus a rock finish on the west side which just absorbs heat). I finally got A/C last summer so I still need to do some testing and what not. But I don't know how much, if it all, installing the panels made my house being cooler.
Maybe its a matter of orientation of the roof that makes the biggest difference? Or windows?
As to how long solar panels work reliably: my godfather was one of the first guys in germany who got a Photovoltaik system in 1991. Siemens 55W monocrystaline panels. They still work today and deliver around 75% of their rated power despite NEVER having been cleaned in these 31 years. And yes, we are talking about superold panels, todays will perform much better in 30 years.
That's awesome .
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Siemens made quality panels, most of the stuff that is sold today is literal 10% of the quality your godfather installed. I've seen panels that are defect after 2 years, and not a defect that can be remedied, but literal panel replacement required. from cells being burned from water droplets focusing light, to cracked cells due to temperature fluctuations. The demand for the solar panels is high, the quality of panels not cells, but panels went down the drain some years ago, the cells are good, the panels are bad.
And solar panels are a brilliant thing, but they are still way to cost prohibitive for 80% of worlds population. But I do think they should be installed on almost every new roof that is built today, but it shouldn't be on the cost of the home owner, but on the government or the electrical company.
@@kurosumomo I was with you until the end, when you brought the government into it. If you want it, do it and pay for it.
Obviously not made in China then
When I first moved to Georgia I told my realtor I wanted a house with no trees because I wanted to install solar. The first five houses he showed me were in the woods. I repeated what I wanted and he said "No one uses solar anymore". I got a new realtor who found me a house free of trees. I installed solar the first year and have loved it. It fluctuates a little but I typically produce 70% of my electricity needs. The previous owner said her electric bills averaged $210. In four years with solar my highest bill has been $47 and lowest $9.
This sadly is the reality of many realtors. Another thing they do is say "I know your budget was X, but just look at this awesome house, it's only 'a little' over budget!". Realtors aren't really needed anymore anyway.
I do a ton of work for a local realtor as a handyman, and she is very old-school in her thinking and knowledge base. She absolutely doesn't understand PV power generation, and I don't bother trying to educate her about it. She's a very competent realtor, does a great job protecting her clients' interests, and knows the laws & market. But she is an older lady who still thinks LED light bulbs are a gimmick, computers are a luxury, and electric vehicles are all built in someone's garage as a hobby.
yes, cut down the trees to save the planet.......
@@SoloRenegade This isn't the point. They didn't cut down trees, they looked for a place that didn't have them blocking the roof.
@@SoloRenegade Dude, read and comprehend please
Half way through 2019 in Brisbane, Australia. A 42 panel, 13.2kW solar system, with a 12 kWh battery back up for sun power at night, a Heat-pump for cheap hot water, and an i-MiEV EV to drive around in, free from the sun. We no longer pay $2000 a year for power. We no longer spend $2500 a year for gas to drive a car around. We actually get paid $2000 a year from the power company for the excess energy we export to the grid. A $6500 positive benefit per year, from our $16 500 AUD Solar / battery system. That's a pretty quick pay back. It's a win, win, win!
Not gonna lie, I'm jealous lol
That is an amazing system, and sounds like a pretty quick payback even if there wasn't the power company checks incoming. :O
That’s not a fair comparison. You would still be saving loads just from the electric car.
Add the cost of buying the car and then tell us how long it’ll take to pay back...
The power company doesn't buy energy back in the US. They credit your account, but still charge a minimum monthly connection charge so you will always end up paying, no matter how much energy you put back into the grid.
@@JPEight well adding the cost of the EV is not really needed for a true ROI, that is most people are already paying for a car lets say ~$45,000. thats the cost of the car PLUS gas VS the EV cost and no gas. if the system covers all the charging cost then its a total gain of the yearly gas cost. Thus the cost of either car is more or less a wash.
now if you fully owned your car, buying a new EV just to save $2,500 per year on gas.. certainly is a poor choice.
@@Debate_everything No, most people are not paying 45k for a car... I paid under 5k and that was 7 years ago... try finding me an ev for that price and maybe I’ll let you make that argument.
Captain here. Been in the industry for a long while now (10+ years). Your warranty only applies as long as the company that installs them is still in business. Many of these companies purposely go out of business and rebrand for this exact reason. Whether this is universal or some exceptions, you have to absolutely make sure the company you are going with has been in business for many years. An easy way to tell if you are going to get scammed is if the deal is too good to be true. Do your research into these companies before you commit to anything.
We've had a alot of new home buyers here where I live that paid for solar setups and the companies never showed up. Cashed the check and ran. Just like they were doing with roof repairs after the hail. Be careful spending 3 times the cost for China solar panels and expecting your utility company to honor something they never agreed to. Once you have panels setup here the utility company just raises your rates. They charged us 300% of the average cost for natural gas all last winter just to make up some extra cash since they closed our in town power plant, laid a hundred and some people off and then raised everyone's rates to buy the coal power from a neighboring city. What a joke.
Our solar system warranty is from the manufacturer not the installer.
what do you suggest? we are looking.
@@bgknowable depends on your level of experience. If you're not very experienced in solar installations, battery packs, inverters, etc. I suggest finding a company that's been in business at least 5 years, preferably 10+. If you are experienced, best way to go about it is to find a reputable quality manufacturer for all the items needed (you may need multiple as not all solar panel manufacturers make all need components) and install them yourself. Not only will you see saving tons of money but you will have the warranty available for each component in the future in case anything goes wrong. Best of luck and let us know how it pans out!
My warranty is through the manufacturer of the panel not the company that installed them.
I actually designed, got permitted, and built my own 5 Kw ground-mount system. The hardest part of that was digging the holes for the concrete foundation, but renting a mini-excavator from Home Depot took care of that. My only hired help was having a concrete pump contractor come in, but that was not bad because I held the hose and filled the forms. This stuff is pretty simple, and there is a lot of information available on UA-cam. Our result? The electric company has owed me money every year since I put it in.
I think you have the right idea . Solar is expensive to install and im not sure why .
The panels are very cheap the tech to mount them is simple compared with a lot of construction stuff and the electrics whilst specialised are not that complicated or expensive.
In the uk with our terrible weather there are people who wont pay for the install for 20 years , and a change in the buy back tariff has made. It almost unfeasible .
Way to go uk govt .
Why did you need a concrete foundation?
@@ohary1
Putting an array on my manufactured home requires approval by the state, and they would have made me reinforce the roof, so it had to be a ground mount. Local building code required a ground mount that could withstand 140 MPH wind, and the best location had boulders that would not work with the screw-in posts. The only alternatives were pipes embedded in concrete, either above ground, or in holes. Couldn't get a concrete truck down there, so the alternative was hand mixing or getting a pump. Pump was easy and fast. Built the pipe frame over the Sonotubes, then ran the hose end into them while the one guy ran his pump. Took about 20 minutes.
@@guygrotke8059 You must be in a windy area because up here in the northeast, they just put them on the ground without concrete footings. If I were to have a ground mouted system, I'd probably consider making them tiltable and adjust them seasonally. Is that something you considered?
@@ohary1
No, I'm in Southern California and sometimes we get the tail end of a hurricane coming up the West coast of Mexico. The building department requires engineered plans, and anything DIY would have to be approved by a structural engineer. I didn't want to go without approval because I needed it to be grid-tied, so I didn't have to buy $20,000 worth of batteries. The solar industry recognized a few years back that it's cheaper to add a few more panels than to make your tilt adjustable. I get more energy than I take from the grid, so no electric bill since I installed them.
I've DYI-ed a 3.3 kWh off-grid system complete with LiFePO4 batteries in 2020 and was so impressed with it's performance that I decided to up to 20 kWh this year. Still in the process of installing, but the system already includes an off-grid inverter, since I am keeping my existing 30 kWh batteries, with an on-grid inverter also being added. The upgrade is worth about 15k US and should pay for itself in about 5.5-6 years, if all goes well. But that's not the main point, because as you said, being energy-independent is amazing.
But your not at least for the next 5.5 to 6 years. Just saying.
You mean kW for your arrays, but yea, that's pretty awesome, great payback.
We installed a solar grid in late 2019 and the production has been tremendous. We have a payoff period of 4-1/2 years and that still appears to be the case. And the transferable guarantee on the grid is 25 years. That in itself increased the value of our home. Combining that with the high cost of electricity in Southern California and one arrives at the obvious conclusion that solar is one of the best investments a homeowner can make. So, Go Solar! IMHO
Thats not an opinion. Its a fact. Roi of 4,5 yrs. then saving up for the replacement another 4,5 years. Then its profit for the next years. the numbers hardly ever lie
Being a good choice is a 98% certain. Only caveat is the initial financing imo.
They have ways of changing the calculus. Don't count your chickens.
@@ericalorraine7943
lookup Priscilla Dearmin-Turner, this is her name online, she's the real investment prodigy since the crash and have help me recovered my loses
Despite the economic crisis and the rate of unemployment now is the best time to invest
@@davidhudson3001Thank you, Going through her profile in her webpage, she smashed all her state certificate and accreditation🙏
I know a guy here in middle Tennessee who is a retired engineer from Arnold Engineering & Development Center / Arnold AFB, who built his own solar panel for his house over 30 years ago. It's still going strong.
We have had solar for twelve years here in Australia 🇦🇺, and my panels (despite being very expensive by today’s standards) have paid for themselves many times over. It was the best investment ever.
I was quoted $75k for an installation which would take 25 years to pay at the same dollar amount as my current energy bill. (two weeks ago)
I know people at work that fell for the solar scam. 40 year payoff they said it more for savings for your kids 🤣
@@jrow84 $75k?
Yikes. THAT sounds like extortion.
It’s about a fifth of that here now in Australia (OR LESS) for say a 10kW system. That’s insane. Any other quotes?
@@FutureSystem738 No I dropped it after talking to a friend who does commercial installs and he said it's not worth it here.
@@jrow84 What are you powering a factory?!!! Just putting solar on my home in Tasmania, Australia. About $7700 USD for the complete installation.
This is so validating. I work for a solar installer and you literally hit on *every* point I discuss when I’m talking about the value of solar. Thank you!
Except? Solar Installers simply set the homeowner up for pie-in-the-Sky false promises while maintaining a lien-claim upon the Real-Property thus trapping a homeowner in a much worse predicament than a “Time-Share” scam.
@@Casmige You must have had a pretty terrible experience if you believe that. Especially after watching the video. While the company I work for does installs on everything **except** residential homes, as far as I understand it liens are only employed by companies **leasing** solar arrays on homes - those companies that advertise "no money down / free solar panels". We too refer to them as "misleading" at best and "fraudsters" at worse. But to be clear, you have more options than just a solar lease, so a solar array does not automatically equal an lien. I agree with Matt Ferrell that EnergySage is an excellent resource for finding a quality installer that will find the right solution for you, rather than pushing something unrealistic.
@@KyleWyattOnGoogle The problem is, the second you "lease" solar, you are now an "energy provider"...and we know energy companies have lobbied that industry to only allow a select few to be "energy providers" in particular areas. Yay corporate lobbying...
So the big question is cost. Like most people taking on another loan for a $15,000 - $20,000 dollars isn’t doable. Unless you’re in the black each month with production vs monthly payments…. They’re still not worth it to the vast majority of people. Telling people it’ll make you money 15 years from now…no, sorry, not a good argument. Then this hopefully temporary increase in natural gas and fuel isn’t an argument for solar either. The public will only put up with this government forcing us into green energy for so long. And it’s not the idea of green it’s the approach. Boots on necks isn’t a good idea. So what’s the cost? And what about financing terms? Interest rates? Down payments? Hidden fees? Maintenance costs? Those are the questions that need to answered. Hopefully you can.
Is anyone considering the idea that as more people get solar and the utility companies feel this the bill will go up to compensate. So will we just get to the same payments for electric before the solar boom as electric companies compensate? Just like the $15 and hour minimum wage. Sounds good but hurts more then it helps as prices for everything go up to compensate.
Hey Matt, thank you for all the great content. Your videos are so professional and easy to watch, I appreciate all the work you put into each video with editing and references.
Thanks for the Very Detailed video. I live in Mass and currently i am looking into solar panels, we just had the inspection done last week, and I am more excited about Solar after watching your unbiased video... Its nice to see all the facts you present, you really do your homework, Great Work on the the educational video.
We’ve decided to go with a 12.4KWatt system. We were glad to hear that the 26% tax credit increases last week to 30% for the next 10 years. It couldn’t have come at a better time. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge of going Solar.
How does the initial cost work? We pay nearly $300 a month in CA! Solar makes since where I live, but we don't have the money to purchase them outright. I've heard that we make payments, but those payments seem to equal what we are currently paying for electricity already.
I am 10 years in on our 2012 13.2 kWh solar PV system and have been certified as being a net-zero energy building in 2016 by the International Living Future Institute and our panels were fully paid off after 7 years with Net metering incentives in Washington State. We also have two Powerwall-2 batteries to supplement our system and we have been exceptionally satisfied with our solar+battery system and would do it again in a heartbeat. We also charge our two EVs off our roof and have been net zero for last 10 years producing more electricity than we use for our all electric home.
I'm in Washington. What did your batteries cost? I'm getting my solar installed today 😁. I went Solgen Power
@@davidba7418 One thing you need to be careful of, there’s more scammers than not, in the solar panel installation industry
@@sethtenrec so what? Ever has issues buying a used car? Not much worse and done by thousands..
Scaremongers seems to be very fond of renewable energy 👀🤷🏼
@@OmmerSyssel no, I haven’t bought a used car. I don’t deal with scammers. Which is what solar industry companies are. If you wanna get solar you’re gonna have to DIY or you’re gonna be totally ripped off.
@@sethtenrec A pretty narrow minded worldview.. We have lots of very satisfied customers in Europe buying high quality products from local retailers. I'm sure our standards are higher than yours, after all you get what you pay for! Keep fighting, that seems to be the most important goal in your life!
Thanks for the update. Hard to believe it's been 4 years! My goals are very similar to yours Matt. We built our house a few years ago and now plan to add solar. We're now working on the budget to maximize solar production. We plan to go all in and go to close to zero grid use if possible/worth the money.
Thanks again for all the great info you provide on this and many other subjects!
Don’t forget to look into using the federal tax credits for tree trimming or removal as well. The negligible cost of trimming trees can save you thousands on buying an unnecessary amount of panels/inverters.
I installed my own solar system. We have had below $100 in electric bill, and last year they owed us. It has been one of the best investiments I've ever made.
How much did you pay for your pannels?
@@IeuanBevan. Total system cost was $20K with 30% tax credit brought it to $14K.
Absolutely worth it. 6 years of solar. Best decision.My bill was 35$ this month
As a long time solar consultant, you did an amazing job explaining this. Thanks for helping people see the value of solar!
Does hail destroy solar panels?
Do you count all the 'green damage' that it takes to get the oil and mining stuff itself, the factory juice and emissions to make them, the tires and gasoline needed to haul them around, the energy needed to blast screws into wood and throwing out all the cardboard and plastic after you're temporarily done. The part where you gotta burn more 'green' to keep up on maintenance and junk them years later etc. Do ya?
I fully support roof top solar. I fully support solar "out west". However, I CRINGED when driving through nowhere Georgia. Driving with trees everywhere, then, suddenly acres and acres of solar panels!?! Really? That is the answer? Clear cut hundreds of acres of TREES to put up solar?
@@barrythehatchet1380 Yes, they saw Dystopian 'anti-nature' films where the world was just coated in metal and plastic and that's what they've done to Georgia and many places.
They literally pave over nature with shiny plastic, chemicals and metal and tell you they're 'saving nature' and do that because they just get off on that kind of power and knowing you pay for it and can't do a thing about it. Even you had to make a groveling sort of complaint making sure they know you're grateful and all and support them but.. y'know.. the dystopian death fields of man-made metal and all.
@@topsuperseven7910 I agree. I get into debates and they will tell me the horror of paper mills cutting down trees. I retort: what kills more trees a paper mill or a mall built in the suburbs. They always fail. The paper mill has to replant to stay alive. The mall kills them forever... except the token ones in the parking lot and foyer
I would love solar for my home. I recently stayed at a beautiful bed and breakfast in Boone, NC that operated almost entirely off the grid with solar power. Very impressive. Love this update Matt, very helpful. Lots of angles to consider on this kind of investment. Good luck on your new home!
This was a really cool video! I moved to phoenix about 5 years ago and the first two years were in a house without solar. Our electricity bill in the summer months was murder. when we went house hunting we were able to get a home that had 1 year old solar panels. and the house was bigger because some in-laws needed to move in with us. Then, Covid lock down, so school and working from home. Despite all of that, with solar panels our energy bill was a fraction of what it was before, some months not costing a thing. Now back when i lived in Nebraska I would have had a hard time justifying it, but out in the desert, these things are required. Your video has shown me that if I ever move back to the northern states, maybe solar would still be a good investment.
Thanks Matt. We are currently shopping solar and your commentary is very helpful to our thinking.
Interesting.
Here in Sydney (Australia) we installed solar panels about 15 years ago (approximately. If my memory is accurate).
Things were different with electricity tariffs, because the cost of electricity was about A 7c per kilowatt hour. The feed in tariff was for then a massive 17c per kilowatt hour and we could sell all our power to the grid at 17 and buy it back at 7 cents, a sweet deal but this was necessary since the panels were so much more expensive that they are now therefore it was needed to have the government incentive to make the panels worth while. Although their high cost to purchase nearly broke us at the time, soon the panels started saving us some real money. I had predicted that they would be paid off in approximately 7 years. Now the panels had been guaranteed for 35 years by the installer, so I didn't see how we could miss! There was however much more in it all than meets the eye. For a start the inverter which was doing all the work changing the DC electricity into AC power failed almost as soon as its warranty ran out. No not 35 years, that was the panels. the inverter was only guaranteed for 4 years!!!! After a year or so we scraped up the money to replace the inverter, although fortunately by then the cost of them had almost halved. Next problem that faced us was that people who had not taken up the government deal by the deadline began to complain that the "ordinary poor taxpayers were propping up those rich enough to afford the panels with these large tariff payments that had been guaranteed until 2017". The government thought hard about breaking the deal but there were enough people who had done the purchase and recognised that it would cause a major issue with their finances if the deal fell through so we kept the feed in tariff for the remaining years, (only just). Nowadays the cost of electricity is so much more that this differential would not matter, and anyway the money repaid for power returned to the grid is a fraction of the purchase price of the same power.
We continued to claw back our outlay although I thought that the panels were decreasing their input without a significant weather deterioration (actually the problem went the other way since there was some really hot summer weather and we used the Air-conditioner more than expected)
I decided to call the company which had guaranteed the PV panels only to find that they had gone out of business.
Well the panels have continued to function in spite of all this and we have recouped our money at last even though the government deal is long gone. We now have to decide whether should stump up the money to buy some batteries!
So far I have resisted the urge since the technology seems to be improving and to wait a while might see batteries with greater capacity for less cost and hopefully a longer recharging lifespan. Hopefully my own lifespan would be long enough to see these improvements come to pass
Let me summarise the lessons I have learnt.
1) note what Matt said about purchasing from a reliable company. This is sound advice. When I bought mine, it was a bit of a gamble since most of the companies in the market were those I had never heard of. Now there are large good companies that can give a guarantee that means something.
2) Recognise when you are calculating the economics of the decision that there can be a few issues that might cramp down the benefits of any renewable system so don't go out on a financial limb to get a system that might not return the promised benefits as quickly as was envisaged.
3) the length of time the PV panels work efficiently is very important not just from economics but also Ecologically to those of us concerned with the planet's future since they are difficult to dispose of and cannot (in this country anyway) be recycled effectively as far as I know.
Great comment Malcolm. It's great to read something that is fair handed, well reasoned, and logical. Have a great day.
Excellent comment. Cheers.
I worked for a Solar Retailer in Aus a few years back. I can add a little more to the points Malcolm made.
When it comes to such long warranties it’s hard, so my advice is; try minimise the likely hood you’ll need it in the first place by choosing quality parts from reputable manufactureres, and have them installed by a reputable installer. It might cost you a little more, but it should save your more in the long run. Also ensure components like the inverter are installed out of the elements, in particular the sun. I.e., install them indoors, under cover, walls that don't get much sun, or have sun shields fitted.
Keep in mind…
Installation
Don't judge quality based on price. More isn't always better.
I recall one lady who popped in, she told me she had just signed up for solar with a different company via telemarking and was just curious to have a physical look. We talked and I was shocked to hear how much she had agreed to pay them, and she was shocked we could install a better-quality system for a little over 1/3rd the price.
PV Solar Panels
You don’t need German made, there are a number of reputable companies (many of them Chinese) that make high quality panels for much cheaper.
Solar Power Inverters
Don’t go cheap. These are far more likely to fail than panels.
Batteries
If you have a feed-in tariff, it will skew the actual amount saved by the battery.
I.e., if power costs 30c per kWh, and your tariff pays you 10c per kWh, then the battery is actually only saving you the difference (20c per kWh).
For best ROI, try size the system to your needs.
With low (or zero) tariffs, you only really save money on solar power you consume, and the excess from an oversized system is wasted money. Try recording how much power your household uses between sun up/down.
they actually can be recycled its just not very common place yet and probably expensive. In the future we might see more recycling and reusing of old silicon since that’s really the only part you need to recycle
Just what the internet needs! Very informed and well presented experiences in a no-nonsense approach. Bravo! Thanks for your insight and time! Much appreciated!
With energy cost doubling and gas specifically tripling, your decision was amazingly good!
Kudos, this video is the best one I've seen on this topic!! I have been on the fence about going solar for some time largely because it's difficult to find information from the consumer's point of view. Your video answered so many of my questions. Thank you so much for taking the time and care to make this video available. God bless!! ❤️☺️
There is lots relevant Internet fora with experienced people, discussing all sorts of alternative energy solutions..
Help yourself to basic knowledge
Been following each year thank you for all these videos
Thank you Matt. I see so many detractors on my solar videos. They do not take into account the myriad of factors that affect solar production and cost.
"They do not take into account the myriad of factors that affect solar production and cost." That's sounds exactly like the intro you would make if you were about to detract solar? (Solar enthusiast speaking here)
@@5th_decile What are you talking about? I am a proponent of solar but not for everyone. You have to weight all factors that affect production and cost instead of just blindly jumping in because it is supposed to be better.
@@CountryLivingExperience The way solar panels are produced doesn't vary from one consumer to the next (at best it varies a bit between the various producers around the world)? There are exhaustive studies about the production processes for pv which have already settled on pretty positive verdicts as of 2022. If you wanna argue that solar is not for everyone, I'd expect an argument primarily based on purchasing power, geographical constraints (somewhere close to the arctic circle, the objective 2022 energy gained (for a pv system over its full lifecylce)/energy invested ratio sinks below 1 yes). I'd say those types of excuses against solar seem either transient ("I got a dream: pv gonna be and gotta be affordable for everyone" MLK) or exceptional (who lives in the arctic??).
One of the factors is people finance their solar which is a terrible idea. Try to sell your house with financed panels.
@@mxbadboy263 Very true
I've had panels for a good 12 years now. They haven't dropped at all in efficiency. We have detailed logs.
Plus, we live in the UK, a country not famous for it's sunny days. They've done pretty amazing considering.
that's bullshit... the cost of solar panels in the UK is throwing money away.
@@BrianFrenchinternet-marketing Maybe now. I couldn't say. But as mentioned here, the Tory government had a solar panel subsidy scheme, which we got in about a week before it ended.
Couldn't tell you what it cost then, or what it would cost now..
But it's paid for itself a few years back.
They will …
Who's the manufacturer?
@@rorrt My brother inlaw was the same, the subsidy skewed the value of using solar, he really isnt sure he would do it again without the subsidy
Thanks for sharing Matt!! It's appreciated 100%%!
I also live outside Boston and my Tesla system just got PTO this week. Although only 4.8 KW we are excited and hoping for some offset to your new electric vehicles we purchased. I am a local realtor and the information on the potential increase in value is spot on now I have a great video to share with my clients on the subject. Thanks and nice job and I look forward to following you.
Mike, Where in MA? I got a Tesla 4.8kw system PTO at about the same time as you. Were you able to get the Powerwall too? 30% ITC for you this year; carry forward on ITC if necessary. Add a value of 4% to your home. Additional State and Federal incentives, etc. What's not to love.
I live in a row house outside of Baltimore and got solar panels installed back in 2017. As such, I have a smaller system than yours, but I get more sunlight. They've been great so far. Each year they've produced more electricity than they were estimated to make and basically pay for themselves. I'll have mine paid off in 2026 as well and look forward to making some money off of them.
How have they paid for themselves?
I have never , in almost ten years been able to find a solar system that paid for itself!
Now if you include tax credits and srec refunds then maybe getting close !
But unless you have a really special system I can’t believe it paid for itself!
And remember those are not recyclable!
@@fuzzyelm1 you just don't know how solar works, my parents are off grid with a huge house on a big farm and they have no power issues, 60inch TV huge custom swimming pool and their solar setup only took a few years to pay for its self so that's how it is.
@@fuzzyelm1 what's not recyclable? You're very negative so I'd expect things to never pay themselves off if you're involved. Get educated and you may learn how solar works and how most solar companies are ripping you all off because you have no idea about solar.
@@sonnelighting3565 I’m dirty you didn’t comprehend!
The solar panels are not recyclable just like wind turbines are not recyclable just like plastic bags are not recyclable!
It’s just lies that we have been told !
And yes I do know a lot about solar and the reason I am so negative is because solar is not as cheaper as fossil fuels!
Just like electric cars are not saving the planet or saving anything in fact !
Solar is an option if you do not have grid electricity in your property!
But no when I read this idiot claim his solar is paying for itself then admitted that was a lie !
The tax credits and srec may be paying for part of your system but solar system is not paying for itself at any place in this country that I have found !
If the dumb bastard in the White House would stop Dinh such stupid things to cause our energy cost and fossil fuels to double in price then solar would not even come close to paying for itself!
It’s just good old facts ‘
Like those dumb liberals follow the science !
@@sonnelighting3565 that’s a lie !
And off grid is totally different than solar while on grid !
But no the system has not paid for itself!
Tax credits and srec refunds are what makes it even come close ‘
And only a total idiot thinks a55 inch tv takes a lot of power !
I can power a that from my generator at much less cost than that solar system!
Only fools think solar pays for itself
We have 36 panels, haven’t paid an electric bill in two years. At true-up, the power company had to pay us. We’re in a very sunny part of California and summer bills averaged about $650/month. Solar has been great for us!
6000kw for a 10kw system is pretty bad production
@@chefgav1 You seem to know a lot but with little details. How are your numbers deduced from his post? Please explain.
No one is telling us the COST of said solar panels and installation cost and maintenance cost..........if you are an idiot and paying time....the Solar company will slap a Lien on your home..........SO ALL YOU PEOPLE WHAT IS THE REAL COST..............compared to if you did not have them cuz you can not take them with you and when you sell your house people D0-Not care !!!!
If you live in California and don’t have solar yet, it can definitely help you save on your energy costs. Glad it’s working out for you!
@@chefgav1, Don't forget that the panels are rated for optimum conditions at 24 hours of sunlight a day. It's a benchmark, not an expectation of what you will produce daily in the real world. I have an 11KW system and I'm currently generating about 70kwh a day.
We live totally off grid in Hawaii. We live in a rainforest, so we don’t get many sunny days. Our solar has powered our home nearly 100%, except mid winter when we have multiple weeks of rain with little to no sun. Then we recharge the batteries for an hour in the morning and another in the evening with our generator. Without including the initial set up, our annual use is limited to the gasoline usage for the generator, at today’s rate, close to $6 per gallon, we spend about $30 a year. Include the initial expense, panels, batteries, inverter, etc., it,works out, after 4 years, monthly cost is about $166. But that’s also paying off the entire system. If we move it out to 10 years, it goes to $69 per month. I am very happy with my solar.
Thanks for crunching the numbers, it's really appreciated. I am definitely feeling the need to get solar after the latest heat wave and rolling blackouts here in California. But for anyone who can't get installation scheduled this year, the good news is that you won't lose out on the 26% federal credit. It's been bumped up to 30%. "As written in the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, the tax credit will begin at 30% and step down to 26% in 2033 and 22% in 2034."
I installed panels on my 172 degrees to south roof that is angled at 37degrees here in Brooklyn, with no trees either. This is almost perfect alignment for solar panels and the reps were all astounded at how perfect it was with a 96% efficiency rating and since were so perfect we only needed 17 panels to get to 100+% of usage. Since they were turned on in April I haven't seen any electric usage from the grid, most goes the other way. The payback period for me is around 5 years after the NYS incentives. I also own a model 3 and now charge exclusively at home rather than at the supercharger. It was really a no-brainer to go ahead with the project once it was all presented and verified by an outside expert that I know. My neighbors all want to do it but they all face the issue of where their roofs face, none are like mine.
My experience with solar panels goes back to the early 1980's when I installed panels that utilized water coils embedded in them. The sun heated the water which circulated to the basement that coiled through a hot water heater and into a tempering tank filled with water to exchange any additional heat before returning to the roof panel. I received a government grant and used the system for about 9 years. I calculated that I did not lose money, but the savings after expenses were minimal. The headaches were tremendous! Pop-off valves, sensors malfunctioning, water leaks, antifreeze issues, insufficient hot water, equipment upkeep and other problems gave me a bad taste in my mouth for solar. I am sure the technology is much better toady.
Solar thermal is what it seems your speaking off, unlike photovoltaic which is what it he is talking about
That's not solar panels
Gary thanks. It is crucial to hear all the stories about all the different methods of capturing natural heat sources. It isn’t possible without ALL the facts to make objective decisions.
Many places use systems like that to heat water instead of hot water heaters.
Yeah, I think it was well-meaning, but pushing solar in the 80s/early 90s, when it wasn’t quite ready, may have done more harm than good with regard to public perception on home solar in the long run, with (I believe) many people believing solar is universally more trouble than its worth due to its performance in this time period.
Thank so much, Matt, for this excellent info. It’s quite difficult to find such useful practical figures. We’re also building a new, “modular”, net-zero house … just on the Adriatic Sea, in Croatia. And we DEFINITELY want solar. I’ve subscribed to your channel. Thanks again!
We used to live in Colorado and had solar panels installed. We loved them! My husband drove and Leaf and we thought it was a no brainer. We moved to France in 2017 for a two year contract and rented our house. It was quick to rent and our renter loved the panels. We ended up extending the contract in France so we sold our home in 2019. It sold in 2 days at full asking and new owners said the panels were the reason for our house over their next choice. We now own a home in SW France but cannot put in solar panels. We live too close to a church and the panels “offend the angels.” Not kidding…oh well!
Doing sales here In Colorado wish homeowners weren't so stubborn about getting solar 🙄 they all think its gonna break or they literally just don't care about saving money.... imagine lmaoooo
Offending the angels sounds like a great catch-all excuse. I'm gonna have to remember that one.
"You can't be mad at me for being late because it would have offended the angels to be here on time."
Someone French in authority needs bribe.....and you haven't found them yet....
@@PenguinLord10 Have to do a sun dance ceremony to change the angels minds
great video... we just bought a house with solar and your information is very comforting. there are some things you should add.
Notes: 1) if you have to get a new roof, it costs thousands to have the panels uninstalled and reinstalled (we're paying $3,000)
2) new roof warranty excludes damage caused by solar installation.
3) our seller had to pay off the solar loan before anyone would buy the house. Nobody would take over the solar loan payments.
Sorry, in NJ no one want to buy home with solar panels contract.
And roof repair solar reinstallation are on the homeowners. No more solar scam.
I don't regret installing solar at all. My system is 5.2Kw. I haven't paid a dime to the power company in the last 5 years and I have a several hundred dollar credit on my bill which more than pays the monthly grid tie-in fee.of ~$10/mo. My system powers everything including air conditioning and an all electric swim spa. I recently had a 14.4Kw back-up battery installed in anticipation of power outages in California this summer.
What battery, Inverter and panel do you recommend?
@@gj4king1 The local company and salesman I used were recommended by friends. I went with what my salesman recommended. I have microinverters. It's been 5 years so I don't remember why, at the time, they were better. The new battery is a Neovolta. They are made in California. They are available in stock (I hear there is a wait for Tesla batteries). I can also tell you the CEO of Neovolta personally called me after installation, checking on my system. Nice to have that kind of involvement.
Your video helped me make up my mind in favor of getting solar panels on my home. Thank You. 😎
Been waiting for this update! Thank you!
I really enjoy watching your progress with solar; very informative. We are on our second year of solar and are very happy with production. That being said, you will notice a difference in production due to weather trends. This is to be expected. We've had a very wet, very cold spring in comparison to last year, and it shows in the numbers. Do we still believe it is worth it? You bet! We are adding 4 more panels to our west side of house.
Great point on the weather trends. We now have extremely accurate data from the last 40+ years that can help us very accurately predict the production averages over the coming decades. Here’s to energy independence!
I'm getting close to 20 years now with my little grid-tie system. Its still going strong despite the age of the panels and the older technology. 18 x SHARP NE-165U1's... 165W panels were all the rage ~20 years ago. They've lost a little oomph since then but still giving me 14 kWh/day roughly (don't quote me), at least in summer. Over that period of time, the entirety of the maintenance has been to replace the grid-tie inverter exactly once. I might wash the panels down once a year, but mostly I just leave them to the elements.
Still, in today's terms, I have a tiny system. It barely ticks past 2000W at mid-day these days (when it was new it could push 2500W). I really want to do redo the whole thing plus add a ton of LFP batteries. The only thing stopping me is that the roof will need replacement in another 5-10 years anyway and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to redo all the panels (and add more) only to have to rip them up and redo them again a few years from now. I'm hoping 'solar roof tiles' will be more mature by then. I'm not enamored with the current generation.
I envy people with big back yards who don't have to mess with putting panels on roofs :-).
-Matt
Excellent boots-on-ground report about 20 years old PV panels...and that was with technology from back then. Thanks. My only comment about LFP batteries, I would take a look to Edison batteries first. I like simple approaches, and it is way easier to stock NaOH for these batteries long term (my approach is low cost, sturdy, reliable, easy and cheap maintenance)
What was the efficiency of those panels when they were new?
@@dannydaw59 I don't know beyond what I can find on the internet, which may or may not be correct. I'm fairly sure they are NE-165U1's which appear to be 14.4% efficient. The dimensions on the spec sheet match my panels anyway. 62.01 x 32.52 inches, 165W (smaller than typical modern panels).
Lets see. That would put the sharp's at 0.0818W/in^2. Compared against, say, a Sunpower x21-340 which is 41.2x61.3 @ 345W or 0.1366W/in^2. The sunpower's are 1.6x more power per square inch. 14.4 x 1.6 = 23%, but the sunpower's are listed as 21%.
Ok... looking at the sharp spec again. Ah. module efficiency is listed separately from cell efficiency. Module efficiency is listed as 12.68%. So 12.68% x 1.6 = 20.3% against the Sunpower spec of 21% which is a closer fit.
So I would say these old sharp's are roughly 12.68% efficient new. What they are now I don't know but I'm guessing they've lost around 20% guestimating from the generation.
I'm glad you asked. I really thought the panels were better than that, but I guess that was state of the art way back then! That really makes me want to just replace the panels straight-out and retro-fit new ones on the same V-line mounts. Oooh, I smell a little DIY project here. I wouldn't even have to replace the grid-tie inverter, it is spec'd for up to 600VDC O.C. and 480VDC operating @ 15A (2 strings, 7.5A per string).
-Matt
are the solar panels clean? you said it generated 2500 watts new but now it's only 2000 watts. I'd like to know if the panels did loose that much in 20 years or is it just it's not clean or something is blocking it in some sense. can you confirm this?
@@jetfu400 I've cleaned them off several times over their lives in full sun and it didn't change the result a whole lot. A few percent at the most. Less than 5% for certain, and probably lower. It takes a lot of dirt to impare a solar panel. Plus rain tends to keep the dirt at a steady-state level w/regards to year-to-year.
You got a great utility company. I have PG&E and they're charging $0.51/kWh! My first electric bill for 28 days was $628 (not including natural gas cost). So, as you can guess, I've already contracted to get a 12.1kWh added to my roof 😉
Hello! I also have PG&E and I'm trying to see if solar is smart for me. Have you got yours up and running? Is it worth it?
Thanks for your article, I live in South Africa we have extremely good weather all year round. We are experiencing electricity load shedding and break downs on our grid which has forced me to install a 5Kva backup system I should have done this years ago now all I hear is a beep and live goes on as usual 😊
@@justinmartinez9901 What area do you live in? We're on PG&E in the Sacramento area and have a 16kW system on our house which is 3,400sf with a pool, spa, and two EVs. Plus it gets to be 105F+ here in the summers. So it's a pretty heavy electrical load, and our system right now covers 100% of our usage plus exports enough extra energy to power an entire other household. I'm in the process of converting our space and water heating from gas to electric, which our solar should still easily cover. So no PG&E electric OR gas bills. :)
Congratulations on your plans to build a dream home. I hope you keep us updated on the progress.
That's the plan!
Congrats on the net-zero build. We were considering that at the end of 2021 but local builders are booked into 2024, so we just made the choice to buy something else for now & will see how it looks again in maybe 5-6 years or so.
I’m not surprised. Building anything right now is super tricky timing and cost-wise.
Diy it. Solar is extremely easy
@@kevinroberts781 If applicable, yes. DIY is strongly preferred. If you are in a situation where that's not feasible then welp... You're paying well over double and likely closer to triple for solar for others expertise, labor, and equipment which quickly wipes out just about all potential savings.
I have a small ~2kW system with a battery for my servers and it's been awesome. Zero electricity bills from them. That system "paid for itself" in like 2 years due to DIY so yeah, DIY all the way if possible.
@@UndecidedMF I really hope you document the build on UA-cam? I would LOVE to watch.
@@kevinroberts781 yep, we did our own 15.35kW system for our Off-Grid home
We live in southern California and have a 4KW solar panel system that was installed about nine years ago. Although our roof is not oriented in the optimum direction for solar insolation, the system has been producing about 5,400 KWh per year since it was installed with small fluctuations up and down from year to year. Electricity rates here in California are very high, so our system paid for itself in a little over 5-years. The inverter died two months ago while still under warranty, so it was replaced with a rebuilt inverter at no cost except for installation which ran $845. However, we lost a month of production while waiting for the replacement inverter to arrive. So this year overall production will probably run around 4,800 to 4,900 KWh. All in all, this turned out to be a great investment. Our yearly cost for electricity since installing the system has ranged between -$50 and +$100. This year our yearly cost probably will be about $250 because the inverter went out during a hot month.
Superb Analysis! Thank you very much for sharing it with us!
I suggest that you also install a solar water heater, this should also decrease electricity consumption significantly.
That’s a good option for some scenarios, but for me I’m getting geothermal hearing and will be tapping into that system to help generate hot water.
@@UndecidedMF OK! Thanks for the answer.
You have to be using a lot of hot water to make much of a difference. At 12 cents per kw/h I'm using only $6 per month. If you have a dish washer, kids (baths, extra laundry), higher rates, it will make a faster payback to add solar WH. For me, it wouldn't be worth it.
Or other great option is just to heat hot water with excess electricity produced. Controllers are not really expensive and heater itself can be basically any electric water boiler.
@@UndecidedMF Look into getting aerobarrier for air tightness and Litezone Windows which are super efficient windows with over 30 year lifespans and very high R values. They are also made in my hometown :)
We've been looking at this in FL but the utilities here and their lobbyists are making it unfeasible very quickly. That coupled with the expiring federal rebate for panels is really putting the brakes on for panels in our area. Then there's the question of high winds during hurricanes and insurance companies refusing yo pay out for toof damage, citing the panels or installer as at fault. In our area, insurance companies have begun dropping people with rooves more than 10 years old so now, if we put panels up, every 10 years, we'd have to pay to have them removed, our roof replaced and then pay again to reinstall the panels. Many utilities have either reduced or removed net metering as well.
Insurance, utilities and their lobbyists are killing the solar industry here and quick.
I'm waiting to get solar until the money works out without the need for government subsidy or net metering. I will store my own solar power in next gen batteries and oversize my system enough to push through cloudy days and winter months. Also I'm not going to set them on my roof due to the hassle of taking them down every time the shingles need fixing. I'll be putting them in an array over my garden in an "agrivotalic" setup. I anticipate the cost for panels and energy storage to decrease enough in about 8 years for me to go solar for real.
@@jaxolotle Florida is a peninsula sticking out into the stormy waters of the gulf. Florida is one big claim.
Insurers are pulling out of Florida because it's a money pit. Hurricanes, high winds, big storms, insect damage, hail, mold...
it's risk, not theft.
In Florida, they pay more in claims than what they make from premiums. About $1.17 in claims for every $1.00 in premiums. What do you expect?
OK, thanks for putting another nail in the coffin for Florida as a bug-out-to-location, wasn't aware of that.
Very informative with the number scrunching.
As a lic. electrician, contractor and solar technician/ installer some jurisdiction lock in rates and they beat inflation and lay down the infrastructure for getting off the grid and emergency power back up systems.
Again awesome video.
Great content and quality of videos! We're learning a lot from them. Your video quality, style of presentation, obvious research, and overall believability has few peers. Regarding photovoltaic panels, you may have covered this already, but it would be great to hear your perspective on other methods of electricity generation (wind, water, ground-based and tracking systems). We're considering some of these methods, but still 'undecided' and would appreciate your persective. Thanks!
Return investment and stability is almost always in favour of solar power. Any professional advicer can soon clear such questions in a single dialogue..
Measure and calculate your minimum and maximum need for power, before going further.
I saw a news article yesterday that people in Florida are starting to see higher "minimum" charges from Duke Energy with their solar panels. I wonder if more energy companies are going to implement minimum usage charges like this.
Fully expect "grid stability" charge. The situation isn't sustainable...every home with solar dumping tons of power into the grid at around midday, when there's low demand, and then asking for power in the evening/night demand peak.
Using the grid as a battery was fun while it lasted. It won't last much longer. The costs of peaker plants and batteries are just too high, and somebody will have to pay for it.
We in the uk have a Distribution charge
DFW charges wholesale rates for any excess consumption after solar production.
9 cents (with solar net metering) versus 12 cents (without solar)
@@luca7069 is that not way we have those gateways, should be able to be able to discount the solar from grid when being over taxed.
@@arthur1670 The same here in Massachusetts. The distribution charge is ofter slightly more than the use charge. It's like getting 2 bills... Luckily most of the power I use is off grid!
We pur Solar panels on our first home, and sold last year, I live in the PNW so solar isnt too common (yet) so I did not see a market value increase over similar homes without solar. However, the energy savings was amazing especially with an EV. I we installed a larger system on our new home only a few months after we moved in. The long term energy savings will also tie in well with our planned upgrade to include a battery system with the goal of minimal reliance on the power grid, and minimize disruptions to power since we are fairly rural and outages from falling trees occur.
Overall, the cost has been well worth it, even without the tax credits in my opinon.
It's interesting. I live in the sunny desert part of the Pacific Northwest and I only pay $0.0673 per kilowatt hour. I can see why solar isn't popular from both angles, cost and cloudiness depending on which side of the Cascades you live on. I haven't convinced myself yet that it's worth it but energy independence is a big thing for me to so time will tell.
@@propadanda Another issue is we have fantastic hydroelectricity here as well so solar will only be the most beneficial in summer heat season.
I'm in the same boat, electricity is cheap, weather isn't consistent enough. I crunched the numbers and saw a minimum of 24 years before I saw a return. This included price inflation of buying off the grid.
Thanks for your really well put videos , formatted for all to understand . You so made me laugh . I’ve lived with only solar panels and a home made windmill for 17 years . I’ve never done the efficiency calculations , or thought to if the lights stay on it’s working😂😂👍. One thing you forgot to factor in was the initial cost of the mains installation . I had a quote here in Spain for 25k to install mains 6k for solar . The power was 100yards away that’s all . So no contest.
Love your content and context . Thanks
Thank you for this information. I love in Washington state and we are buying our first home. Planning on using the solar grants.
This is a great video and I love having solar panels just to have power at will during any outage or to save on the power bill . I was thinking of having net metering but for what my DIY system does and is set up ,I’m pretty pleased . I’m doing researching on DIY net metering and maybe be successful in it in the future . May the solar ☀️be with you .🤗
With most of the solar company installations, you don't have use of the panels during an outage. It is direct to the grid. Unless you have it built independently for you or a DYI project.
I live on the east coast of Australia and have had my Solar panels for about 10 years now. It was one of the best decisions i ever made. The panels themselves still produce 95% of the energy as when they were new. We get great sunlight throughout the year. I reckon it only took us 2 yrs to payback the cost of the panels.
Queensland? It’s a sunshine state👍
Love these posts.
I wonder for a long time already why Australia is not yet completely running on PV.
Thanks to the coal lobby I guess - this is really sick.
You turn out a good video Matt. Thank you for work you do to produce them. I live in a state that has license plates saying "The Sunshine State" my boat is fully self sufficient on solar panels and wind generator. Unfortunately on land, incentives are being wound back and there is talk of charging people with panels because the grid can't stand it. Best get the coal boiler back.
We just purchased solar on our home in Albuquerque NM. We receive roughly 315 days of sunshine with an average temperatures of 93° in summer to 40° in winter. We purchased the HikuBlack all black mono perc module panels. From what I have found they are 19.7% efficient with a .5% annual power degradation. Looking forward to installing an energy bank for nighttime use.
Love our panels. We bundled a Powerwall unit with the install so we're able to stretch out production usage throughout the day and night and all but eliminated black outs. This video prompted me to take a peek at the Tesla app and see the numbers since we installed and we're at 74% of total power consumption has been solar. XD
How many tesla power wall units do you have/need? And do you have an electric vehicle as well? I really like the idea of solar and power wall combo for e ergy independence
@@brianp6859 We just have the one power wall. We wish we had two, but didn't have the space or funding at the time. Nope, no e-cars.
@@leftseatmcgee5002 nice! Thats pretty impressive that a single unit works that well for you. It probably wouldn't be too hard to add on additional power wall units in the future for a bigger storage solution I guess?
@@brianp6859 We simply don't have the wall space in reasonable distance from our breakers. There's the main breaker box, the power meter, the tesla control panel, second power meter, inverter, power safety transfer switch, AC shut off/lock out and a maze of conduit that would have to be reconfigured.
@@leftseatmcgee5002 It may not help your situation, but don't forget Powerwalls can be stacked and floor mounted (vertically) too.
It was interesting seeing real numbers. I have always wondered how anybody could save money from solar panels. We are paying 60-80$ a month for electricity. Half of that is fixed costs. $285 a month is insane. Suddenly it makes sense that a solar system could pay for itself.
I live up in Canada. We had a cold year this year, plus a rather large home - oh look, $800 utility bills. If we got more sun, and didn't live in the shade of a mountain, I'd be all over solar. But where I live there's not as much sun, panels are far costlier due to tariffs, and the payback period is closer to 20 years. A 6-8 year payback is an implied 12.5% to 16.67% return. 20 years is an implied 5% return. One is worthwhile, the other not so much. With such a great payback period in sunny areas, where else can you get a guaranteed return like that? And if your utility company hikes rates 25% like Matt's did, suddenly your implied return is 15.625% to 20.84% - staggeringly good. You are unlikely to beat that with investments even if you take significant risk on the stock market.
yeah most of my bill is fixed cost as well.
I don't even pay $285 a month in a texas summer. Cooler months, I'm often under $100 a month so I've been not very interested in it.
WhereTF do you live that your power bills are that low? Saudi Arabia hahahaha
@@deed5811 pffft, in vegas during peak summer months our bills can be $600-$800 per month for 5 bedroom 2 story.
I live in NJ and am in the 9th year of having solar panels (my capacity is 8KW) and passed the payback period in my 6th year of ownership. The main difference with the system described here is my exposure is due south and there are no trees that overshadow my roof at any time. I have been tracking my electric generation and usage since the beginning and have not seen a noticeable decline in my production rates. In my case, as long as I receive SRECs, I have a net credit from the rebates (approx. $700 per year). In NJ, the value of solar panels is not to be included in the assessed valuation of the property. Overall, this has been an excellent experience.
It's a big investment at first, but it's my opinion that it is absolutely worth it over time. Depending on where you live you may get more out of your panels, but even in a location that is less ideal for panels, you still get good use of them. The way things are going in The U.S. people should really think about going green any way possible, because the energy companies continue to raise prices. The longer you wait the more it's going to cost.
I live in CT and had similar problems - east to west roof, lots of trees on ALL sides, and a roof that would need replacing in 15 years which would mean removing the solar panels, replacing the roof, and then reinstalling them - or replacing them first before installing them. Because of my location the estimated payback was 33 years - longer than the life of the solar panels. If I wanted to cut down at least a dozen trees, the payback was reduced to 25 years except the cost of cutting the trees down raised that payback to 30 years. In other words, the best I could do was break even if everything went to plan. Your situation is much better than mine so congratulations - I had to pass (so did my neighbors who all had t he same problems I did). I had two different companies estimate this - and they both came back with the negative payback result. Of course with higher prices now for power it may make sense so I may look at it again.
Especially when our delivery fees are more than our actual usage. Eversource is ridiculous
@@luislandofficial Correct, the sky high delivery fee I was not even covering but if you include that the payback does not happen at all since you cannot get rid of it as our only supplier as a backup.
We put solar panels on our small home in Wisconsin this March as part of the state's greener initiative, but we did it for all reasons you mentioned in this video.
Some nice things about our situation was that our street side faces north, so there was no concern about curb appeal since the panels faced the backyard (that has no trees, so we get full sun). That, and I have thought of solar panels as a protective covering for part of our roof, so that would increase the longevity of it, in theory.
What we were surprised by was a large rebate check from the state that helps encourage a greener footprint. It turns out that some states have a rebate program for doing things like putting in solar.
Needless to say, I hope we can do this again for our next home
Just a warning. Panels will cause algae and moss to grow underneath in wet climates, so they can cause the shingles to degrade slowly if the panels aren't shielded around the sides.
That big check was from the tax payers,
Thanks for great video again Matt. I`m getting soon 8,76 kWp panels, 8 panels to southeast wall and 16 to southwest roof. I asked offers from 4 companies, prices varied from 8460 euros to 16200 euros. I`m getting cheapest one, those people were most popular installers in this area. Greetings from southwest Finland, Europe.
I also lived in the Boston area I am in fitchburg good to see Fellow Boston people 😀 🙌🏿
Thank you Matt for the follow up on your install. It is great to see some real life numbers. I see some of the comments thinking that solar panels reduce the life of a conventional roof. Since sun is the leading cause of roof aging it seems like solar panel could reduce the affect of sun on a roof. The only reason I could see solar panel causing issues with roofing could be the attachment methods.
I live in NY and was able to roll the cost of getting a new roof into the solar panel installation which means my tax rebate also covers a percentage of my new roof. This made the decision to go solar when it was time for a roof replacement even easier!
G'day Matt, I had a 14Kw solar system installed early 2020, just before the pandemic lockdowns here in AU. I have not had an electricity bill for over 18 months now and I'm in almost $900 credit. They are well worth it for me. I live in Victoria Australia where winter is cool to cold, no snow and summers very hot. One of the main things I do is to use a wet brush to clean the panels from dirt and bird poop. Same here too, houses with solar installed are very sort after and I've had offers to purchase my house for about 300K above my area's median price. Not bad on an 8K investment.
14kw for 8k aud? Super cheap
I've watched a couple of your videos. Always clear and accurate information, especially on net metering. So many times it is stated as cash flow instead of banked for later. Here in AZ (SRP) any excess is paid out at the end a May at the winter rate of 0.08 cents minus a percent. The summer rate of 0.11 cents starts in June. The logical thing would be to carry the excess into the AC season unless the monopoly is making the rules.
Whenever I comment on solar I point out an ignored consideration. Consider the age of your roofing material before installation. Its quite a lot of labor to remove and reinstall a system to re-roof the house.
My small off grid on grid switchable system I installed 8yrs ago is still working perfectly. It supplements my energy needs and when our location suffers an outage, I'm not effected to the annoyance of my neighbours. I retired from my electrical engineering career 15 years ago and was then able to play with solar, which is so simple to construct, and virtually maintenance free. Have a go.
Not simple for people who have no clue. I've been studying solar for years and still have very low understanding of it. I know the components needed but the wire thicknesses and other factors I need to follow a guide
@@6foot8jesuspilledpureblood82 Hi Dean, honestly theres not a lot to a simple 12v system. Buy a cheap 12v panel 100watts, or less to experiment. You will need a charge controller, say 10amp, and an old lead acid 12v battery to charge up.2 wires at least 1mm. Follow instructions on the charge controller to connect. If you want 240v, buy a cheap 12v inverter, . Panel to charge controller to battery, to inverter. DONE. This way you will learn how simple it is, and you can then upscale.
We had 20 panels installed 2 years ago. We’ve never had an electric bill since.
As a bonus, we received a check back from our electric company last year for $686 and after switching out all of our lighting to LED and installing a whole house fan to further reduce our overall usage, we are now awaiting a $762 check to be sent to us this year.. and this is *after* adding a third EV that we charge from home. We live in SoCal where sun is plentiful and our panels have excellent southern exposure with no shadows.
$762 divided by 12 mo. averages to $62.50/mo, and after paying $109/mo for our panel installment, our difference is only $45.50 a month to power a home and three EV’s on average, and will be even lower once our panels are paid off in 23 years. Add that our panels have increased the value of our home, installing solar panels has been an easy net positive without a doubt.
What company did you use to get your solar panels?
@@bebaloveyou SunRun through a local subsidiary Horizon Solar. I’m happy with my installation, energy generated, and value, but if I were to do it over again, O would’ve gone with Tesla as their panels are more efficient, has a much better app, can include a Powerwall, and depending on your state, is eligible to participate in the Virtual Power Plant program.
My experience with 12 Solar Panels installed in 2016 is good energy savings, but in the last 2 years, 6 of the "Power Optimizers" located on panels failed. It takes a Tech about one hour to replace each one. This year, a large capacitor exploded in the main Invertor box, blowing off the cover and damaged a car in the garage. All Optimizers and the Invertor were replaced at no charge. Not sure what is happening regarding Insurance coverage on damage to the car.
A nice thing about solar panels is that during summer when the weather is hottest, the panels produce the most energy, so the cost running fans and air conditioning is greatly reduced, and essentially costs nothing in my situation.
Solar Energy is all about Guarantees! Always ask the professionals you are consulting to send you all the gurantees you are getting with a Solar Energy system. Great Video!
Along with installing our PV panels this year, we had storage batteries added which hold 10 kWh each, giving us up to 20 kWh.
March through September our daytime needs were met as well as charging the batteries. Once the Sun got low, the house drew from the batteries until reaching the 25% emergency reserve level we set. For example in July while running air conditioning (house HVAC) we still exported 450 kWh to the grid for credit. Most important to us was that during multiple power outages over the Summer, we still had electricity.
Discus storage batteries with your prospective installers.
I know it won't be long before you have a million subscribers ! Thank you for going into the often overlooked details of solar. There are many variables. Cheers from someone who has lived off the grid for twenty five years !
My 10kWp installation is 13 years old. On average the performance has dropped less than 1% during the last 11 years. The loss was larger in the beginning (about 2% in 2 years)
Only thing that needed replacement is the inverter that developed startup issues, and a few connectors that had isolation issues. My install is inclined 42% and pointed pure south, and produces 11.2MWh a year on average (spread: between 10.6 and 11.8MWh)
The biggest benefit for solar usually goes to the new home buyer IF you sell within 6 or 7 years of installing solar on your home. So for the next buyer it is a real success story however, there is a flip side. There are many stories about homeowners ending up having to remove a solar installation because the home won't sell, and the only buyers interested refuse to take over the solar or even deal with solar at all. This is leaving the current homeowner with only two choices. Miss the sell on the house and keep solar or remove solar in order to sell the home. I didn't think that was even a possibility until my local agent explained that while rare, it has happened. Especially if you find yourself in a market that isn't moving very well. As we know the current housing market is cooling off and may even become colder.
The bottom line is that there are many investments that can be made to reduce costs and improve the comfort in a home. Matt Risinger’s work and passive house standards combined with renewable energy and modern storage systems can put you in a situation where you’re selling back to the grid as well as having an extremely comfortable home. Good video!
Our house has 24 square meters of south-facing windows (don't panic, they're shaded by the carefully-designed roof overhangs during summer, nice and cool in summer), so on clear winters days, the peak solar gain is on the order of 20kW of passive solar heat. They weren't that expensive to include in my house design, six large 'picture windows' spread over two floors. On cold clear days in winter, the house is toasty warm even while the electric heaters are off. Since the house is now about 30 years old, they've paid for themselves maybe a dozen times over. Passive solar (combined with energy efficient design) should be the FIRST STEP for any new design (in a heating climate), only then followed by PV panels.
Great point 👍
I had reduced production on my system for last two years due to the fires out here in California. They required more cleaning as well. However, the cost of electricity here is very high, also factor in the cost savings from driving an EV and not paying the $6.20 for a gallon of gas. So PV is money well spent.
Due not do-must be government edumacation at worc.
Wow! You pay a lot for electricity. I live in Georgia (a little north of Atlanta), and it's around 11 cents/KWh. I'm thankful you mentioned your costs, because that would definitely impact how quickly I can make my money back by going solar.
Good info. I appreciate you taking the time to give the details of your experience.
I’m in the process of soliciting quotes for my Florida home. Sadly I did not use your service, and was deluged with sales calls, some from sales companies that are just in business to SELL solar, but not support it. It is very difficult to weed these out and get a quote from a vertically integrated company that does all the work, and then services the work over those 25-30 years. Thank you for your video, I do believe in MANY cases solar power is the right choice for the future and to aid our infrastructure and energy production, not just cost savings.
I love my panels. Sadly I was miss-led and told Idaho power would pay me. They don’t. I was talked into way more panels than I needed as well.
Please call your power company to make sure they pay back.
Just knowing that the cost of power goes up the investment in solar is worth it for me.
An Australian from Victoria. My mother was early (1984) when she got into solar hot water heating. The people who installed it said it would never pay for itself. Some 20+ years later she had solar panels installed (2010ish) and the guys who installed the panels could not believe what she had been told. I know for a fact that a heating element went out in the hot water tank and we still got warmish water even in the middle of Winter simply because of the solar hot water system.
This video was really well made, thank you.
Thanks for the great info. Love this channel. The average somewhat tech savvy and DYS’er should be able to install there own solar. And if you have a decent yard, it’s a lot easier than rooftop. Near ground level work and service area. Just need a licensed electrician to tie you into the grid. The method will save you tons of money and greatly shorten the payback. There are plenty of companies that specialize in DYS solar and will mentor you through it. I have lived off grid on DYS solar and wind.
Our electric rate is fortunately ~$.12/Kwh. Although I love the independence part, still not feasible. Big thanks on the update. Love geeking out on the numbers too.
Mine is 11 cents KWH but I'm doing it . It won't stay there much longer . Energy prices doubling around the globe , because they can . Jerks lol
Awesome video as usual Matt!! Can't wait to see how the sell and move work out for you guys. I know when people ask about our solar and EV's they "What If" me to death about every negative thing they can think of. For us it's well worth the investment and pays us great dividends every year. As you stated our system at the end of it's warranty period will have saved us around $70k in electricity bills and still be working. Keep up the good work.
The Doomsday scenarios with EVs and solar are ridiculous, people don't question the flawed things in their everyday life that much.
If you have solar and EV's then the small cost of your electric bills wasn't a big deal cost in your life.
@@mxbadboy263 Actually we got the EV and solar because of the high electric bills. Now I pay myself $200-$450 a month instead of Duke Energy and I don't pay $300-$500 a month in fuel. I finally got tired of lighting $100 bills on fire and paying others. It's all about what you want to do with your money ...... I prefer to keep mine as much as possible.
I like the idea of solar PV and think it’s a great investment for say, a young family that are pretty sure that they are going to be living in that house for at least twice the pay back period. Naturally the real solution is for all houses to be built with at least 6 kw of solar from day one. If we did that then we wouldn’t need to build any more power plants. 🙏
Our panels were 8 years old when we bought our house. After I fnally got the historical data from the manufacturer I could see that we were not producing what they had been pretty solidly for the first 5 years, for the last 3 years. We got up on the roof and clieaned them with a mixtture of vinager and dawn. 1 gallon to 2 table spoons. We immediately saw a 30% jump in production over the forst week. Almost back to its installed levels. Thank you to the lady from UA-cam who suggested this mixture. We have since added 8 new modern panels, which produce nearly 60% of what our other 29 panels do. The wonders of updated panels. Both our old and our new panets use "Enphase Inverters" each panel has its own. That seems to help with shade from trees. Our next addition will be Wind Generation. We live in the California Desert. We have a lot of sun and wind.
You can only win in the long run with increasing costs from Power Thieves...I mean Companies! LOL
Hey Matt, I remember when you reached like 100K subscribers! Wow! Keep up the good work sir! Blessings from Woonsocket RI!
My home is in south Florida, where we have a slight advantage in sunlight strength and hours. My panels went online in Jan 2022. They are rated at 8,4 kw. This does power my house and charge my electric car and still send extra power to the grid so my electric bill is zero. The system cost me just over $11000.00, which means that (based on my former electric bill) over the 30 year term of the loan I would have still save $22000.00 on my electric bill. (That is assuming that the price of electric would never go up over those 30 years, but we all know it will so the savings would actually be greater). In my case I paid my loan off in the first year so my savings are exponentially greater. That being said, and having almost six months experience doing this, I believe the contractor underestimated and should have sold me a 12kw system. As I said earlier, I produce more than I use, but what happens if crazy weather develops. Then I may see an electric bill again. After being free of electric bills for almost 6 months one could say that I am now “spoiled”. I am considering expanding my system to 12 or 13 kw, just to avoid that possible scenario.
Wow, $11k is cheap. We paid twice as much for a similar size system in AZ, before tax credits.
You should be producing enough surplus to make up for the cloudy days.
is it grid tied
We installed a 7.3KW ground mount system on Long Island 14 years ago, 35 degree tilt, direct south. The first year or two we were at about 9200 kwh per year, now we are at about 8800kwh. The original system came with two Xantrex inverters which lasted 4 years, we then had twp Fronius inverters that ;lasted five years. Since I had good luck with SMA Sunny Boys on a system I monitored for work, we went with 2 SMAs. The panels are Kyocera 130 watt. I am looking for decent replavements panels that will work.
Just to save others the math: that's 95.6% of the original output, which seems to fit well into the expected aging curve. The lifetime of your inverters concerns me a bit, 4 years seems quite low.
@@joergsonnenberger6836 Thanks, the inverter life span has always been a bit of a puzzle for me. They are mounted in the shade on the north side of the array. The Xantrex inverters did not a great warranty, neither did the Fronius, hopefully the SMA's will last longer. I did drill cooling holes on the mounting plate when I installed the SMA's, hoping it aids in cooling.
@@sayvilletech9135 Interesting. Here it is most common for the inverter to be installed in-house. For the normal family home, it often sits just next to the house connection box. That protects it quite reliable from the elements.
@@joergsonnenberger6836 You are referring to the connection box inside the home, correct? The system I monitored at work with SMA inverters had all the inverters mounted on a flat roof in full sun. One feature of our home system is that the we installed the inverters at the array because we did not want to run DC current to the house and the meter which is 100 meters from the array.
@@sayvilletech9135 I mean the point where the electric grid connects to your house and where your electricity meter is. In our own installation, we have the battery and the inverter in separate boxes installed directly next to it. Now this is a single floor house, so the distances are extremely short, but even if you add two floors, it would only be something like 20m. For a warehouse or the like, it would obviously be larger, but I also wouldn't worry as much about running DC cables as there is little inherent danger compared to AC lines. From a safety perspective, an automatic breaker directly in front of the solar panels tends to be much more important.
Lol just seen you have a vlog for that as well 🤣🤣
Good man
Keep up the informative work 👍👍👍