Why recreate adversity? I'm definitely part of that sub-group against bonsai - it's crippling trees for just aesthetics and there's also some weird control issues to unpack around it. Just get some plants that are good for your local wildlife.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist thank you, a good point. Also like to mention that all these people say its torture to plants because it stops them growing, yet don't bat an eye when they go out and cut their grass.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist Okay, while I have no issues with Bonsai and I agree that it isn't particularly harmful. By only addressing the tone of the question you still didn't answer the question in truth. Your answer is a bit of a tu quoque fallacy. You're relying on the hypocrisy that the OP would realistically have. But the question still stands. Why create adversity for the Bonsai? Wouldn't the answer just be, because it's beautiful? And to imply it's torturous or harmful is a bit extreme? To humor that it's torturous would also imply that trees feel pain without a brain or pain receptors. Furthermore. To add insult to injury, "Another youtube channel name "Isn't probably thinking very hard about things like..trimming a hedge in someone's front yard so it doesn't overgrow.
Sure, that’s a good way to put it. I’ve had this convo so many times in the comments and I’ve answered it many ways 👍🏾 but such a short answer like that it isn’t getting to the core of the problem, which is why I felt I needed to write my response.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist youre insane. so manipulative and neurotic. In your last sentence of your dramatic rant you gave the guy a point to argue which is so condescending and pathetic. was wondering why everyone who was being interviewed seem so freaked out and kept inching away.
thats true. i live in finland and have visited the very north, and the trees were small and other vegetation was a lot less dense. i think bonsai is very pretty and like mentioned in the video, perhaps treated better than many other trees.
I've seen a few trees like that while hiking in PA. They aren't as small as bonsai but they're definitely alot smaller than their counterparts. Super sturdy and great to hold onto.
@johnjohnsfutures Plants have indeterminate growth, meaning they don't have a set number of limbs, leaves, roots, girth... they grow as many as needed. People have determinate growth. We have two arms, two legs, one heart.. etc. You cut off a limb on a tree, they grow another. Humans can't. Hope that clears things up!
Fr like you put a sweater on a cat and it's animal cruelty - now plant cruelty? Are they just gonna starve and not eat any living thing? Like where does it end? Lmao
@@XenaAndKin there is a 4 at the end of your name and it says you posted 20 minutes ago lol Oh no now you guys know I burn plants too I've revealed what a monster I am 😔
All Bonsai can revert and grow normal if you replant them. Bonsai can preserve rare species by strengthening the trunks and replanting after several years of pruning. And you do not have to deplete the nutrients, all you have to do is continuously pruning, which will increase the strength of the trunk. You can resurrect a whole forest using Bonsai techniques.
Using less nutrients and growing plants in tough conditions will make them more adaptive as well! Hardening off plants is a really great way to achieve resiliency.
A friend of mine has a bonsai store and it's doing really well, in fact he said if business continues in this current direction he'll be able to move into a smaller store soon.
I like the part that bonsai tree can grow big if allowed and can still make fruit/seed... so we could theoretically save endangered giant trees by making bonsais of them and have a hope that one day... there will be place where they can / their offspring can grow big again.
@@lovelyyolk9066 indeed, but says people dont care about the big trees but they love the bonsai version.. big trees get cut by logging companies.. it still be a little hope?
That’s a fascinating thought. If there is not enough resources (no habitat because of, perhaps, climate change?) a small version in an artificially maintained habitat until there is hope for habitat restoration. Very cool idea.
So, a bonsai could theoretically become a normal, huge tree when planted elsewhere. But the question is, is a tree “happier” when it grows way bigger? Or is the tree happy when it’s small too? The obvious answer is no, the tree doesn’t care. Another answer would be “we have no way of knowing.” People like to assign emotions to things, but a lot of the time those emotions are just projections of our own feelings. People assign the wrong emotions to animals too, even though we know animals can feel emotion, people still misunderstand them and describe them incorrectly. This happens all the time. So even when we find out trees can experience emotion (and some evidence already suggests this) we would probably still force our own perspective onto them, like we do now. What we do know for a fact is that plants do what they do, with the conditions they are given. Are they “satisfied” being the tree that they are? I don’t think trees know this concept. I think people shouldn’t anthromorphise their idea of “succes and satisfaction” onto plants. In fact, people already project their ideas of success onto other people and animals who don’t need it. The trees definitely don’t need it either.
Your right. Plants don´t feel because feelings and emotions are transported by the central nerve system. Plants don´t have that. They run on biochemical processes just like we do but simpler and without the CNS. I still think people should care more about plants because even without feelings they are a form of life and so they should be respected.
@@YuBeace those five fingers make a good connection man.. them are the bridge between the communication on human and plant world. Its like 5g or LTE man
Bonsai can definitely grow into full-fledged trees--as a kid, my mother bought a Japanese maple bonsai tree, but had no idea how to care for one. So she would move it to a larger pot every year, for whatever reason, and the tree would continue growing. It is now taller than me and flourishing outdoors!
This is actually really helpful, thank you. I accidentally bought a bonsai tree that I thought was a smaller variety, and I'm not sure I want to keep it as bonsai but didn't know if it could grow back to its natural state. Well, maybe not its fully natural state as that's apparently about 15 metres or more. Not sure my suburban neighbours would thank me for that!
@topazmine1086 I hope your neighbors wouldn't have a problem with someone planting a tree in the neighborhood... If they do, tell 'em to sit on it and rotate😂
Technically there's no size limit to a bonsai, so theoretically, a bonsai can be exactly the same as a regular tree. The term bonsai really just refers to the artist's intent.
One thing that the nursery owner got wrong, bonsai's CAN be grown indoors. I'm sitting in my apartment in New England in February, looking at my little lemon bonsai trees that would never survive a winter here. Also, I know of many people at my latitude and above that grow tropical bonsai's indoors.
You're right. After some research, there are a few species that enjoy the indoor coziness of a house. I believe what Bob was pointing out the large misconception that all bonsai's are indoor plants. Although, I love how there are always exceptions to rules, it's just like nature, and life for that matter :)
@@TheBackpackingBiologist #TheTrueBiologicalLessonOfBonsai: If there is even the smallest chance of a way to grow and evolve, Life will find it; given enough time...
To the people saying that growing bonsais is torture, I just want to say that many of the training methods are also applies in other tree nurseries, where the trees for parks, streets and gardens are grown. They are repotted, pruned (the roots too), wired and they get limited amounts of nutrients in order to grow into the desired shape. Of course, it isn't neccessary to keep bonsais at such a small size when the trees could become much bigger, but as long as they are kept healthy I don't see a problem with it. I think that few wild trees actually have the resources to grow to their full potential, and especially not the ones that grow in urban settings.
People complaining about tree torture should probably stop eating at all, and receive all their nutrients from photosynthesis. That way they'll avoid hurting any plants.
doesn't really matter anyways tree aren't sentient you can't "torture" them in any meaningful way that isnt just entirely project onto them by us. really seems like a non-issue to me
As a bonsai enthusiast with many of my own personal trees and a student in his bachelors in biology I found this video really refreshing and well informed. Thanks for making my morning a bit more interesting and my hobby a bit more scientific.
Hi dude, I got a question. If I grow a bonsai fruit tree, say apple or something like that, will it carry bonsai apples aswell? Sorry for my bad english
@@mightykitty5870 No. Usually they'll give regular sized fruit. It might be slightly smaller as the tree may have less resources to put into the fruit. You can use fruit trees that give small fruit for a proportional tree. For example, crab apple, cherry, plums and apricots, etc.
i’ve never heard of people being against bonsai, that’s crazy to me. no one who keeps plants ever wants to hurt them, especially bonsai artists considering how much meticulous work they put into caring for them
Bonsai are also easier to store than a fully grown tree, so it playes a part in preservation. You could have a full metal rack of 20 bonsai but not a single full tree would fit there
I don't think making bonsais of endangered trees is a viable conservation strategy. Otherwise people would probably be doing that. For one thing, it inhibits their ability to flower and fruit as well as a full-sized tree.
@@SR-ck8gu "Otherwise people would probably be doing that" They probably are. "it inhibits their ability to flower and fruit as well as a full-sized tree." You can take cuttings and root them.
@@JarthenGreenmeadow cuttings are naturally small life forms not large life forms which have been contorted through the use of strong braces to appear small
The nursery my son works at in Japan has trees some so old they aren’t sure their age. They live over 100 years if taken care of properly. His channel is Bonsai Harmony:)
That’s awesome! I’ll check it out. I’ve met some trees that are likely 1000 because they were taken from the wild and maintained as a bonsai 😳 they’re quite wild!
The way I've always seen it is: yes, bonsai is cut back yearly and bent into different shapes, but this happens in nature all the time. A wild tree might lose its branches due to storms and wildlife, it will bend into shapes to reach the canopy in a dense forest, the only difference in bonsai is the trees are treated with respect, love, attention, and kept until and even after they perish from old age. The bonsai artist and the tree work together to make decisions on what to cut and how to shape with one idea in mind "will this tree survive and furthermore live prosperous after"
Absolutely this. I love walking in Snowdonia and due to the rocky terrain and lots of wind you'll see ancient Oak trees that are permanently looking like a bush being blown sideways, they just respond to the conditions and survive. Yes people are deliberately restricting the tree, but by the same token by having a passion for Bonsai we're also deliberately planting more trees and learning about how plants grow, most bonsai enthusiasts are probably more eco conscious and in favour of protecting woodland and forests than your average person.
@@ryannechvatal9888 actually they do...let me introduce you to root maggots, root aphids, root mealybugs, and root wevils.. They all like to eat the root part of plants and such...so yes..the roots do get cut down in nature
I have an uncle who's hobby is making bonsais. He's retired and does them for his home, because he loves it. He can make any type of tree into a bonsai, for example tangerine trees, and they look SO cute with the little fruits once they grow adult (they get ripe and you can even eat the little toy-sized tangerines). It is a patience builder discipline... he's the "Sensei Miyagi" in the family. BTW, all his bonsai trees look happily beautifully healthy because he really takes care of them, if they were being "tortured" they would probably die. You need to understand that plants can be adaptable
I am SO happy I watched this. I was one of those people who looked down on Bonsai as a perversion of trees - and honestly, I should have known better. I've been growing things my whole life ( gardens, flowers, pot, trees...) and after some pondering, I think I was anthropomorphizing the bonsai trees. But like the guy from Kimura Bonsai said- it's not as if the tree is unhappy, it just grows within it's constraints. Thank you very much for making this video!
I do Bonsai art as well. Your first styling of the juniper was superb! Keep going, you are a natural. I always tell people when they ask me if it hurts the trees when I bend them and wire them. I always point to nature for examples. An avalanche, snow storm, thunderstorm, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc do way more damage to trees than I could ever even try in a life time. There are still trees everywhere!!! They will out live us. We will end up food for the trees.
Thanks you! I’m definitely proud of how my tree came out fully knowing I still have a long way to go, I’m totally hooked to bonsai! Haha that’s a great way of putting it!
dude they're plants, they're literally (to our best understanding) chemistry factory dividing and is greedy and want to suck up all the nutrients and sunlight to take over the world
Its “pray not for a lighter load but pray for stronger shoulders.” Which has been happily copied over ..by someone who spells cheques as checks …crying so hard😂
It makes sense the cells are the same size - after all, the proteins, sugars, the DNA in the nucleus - those cannot shrink, atoms cannot shrink. A cell is usually just the optimal size for protein transportation from one organelle to another to work.
@@tonylee1667 that's true, but the question here was wether the same cells - not a different type, could radically change their size and retain the same function. Do correct me if I missing something
@@guardianfish7718 The same cell changes in size and mass throughout its lifetime, so I wouldn't have been too surprised if the cells of bonsai were different in size compared to large trees due to things like inhibited cell divisions and etc
I just placed some seeds in the refrigerator about two weeks ago to begin the stratification process for my very first venture into bonsai. Thank you for explaining the science behind it!
I really enjoyed this video. Every once in a while you find a gem of a video. I do partially disagree with the idea that bonsai can't be grown indoors. There are some tropical species that work very well inside with the proper care. I have been growing my Ginseng Ficus inside for a few years now and is doing just fine. Please look after your Juniper, I killed mine by over watering it.
Thanks for the kind words! Yea you’re right, after doing some research, I have seen there are a few species that can handle indoor temps. I think Bob was referring to how the masses think all bonsai can be indoor plants, but I always love the exceptions to the rules! It’s just like nature, there’s always an exception 🙏🏾💪🏾
I've been doing bonsai for a long time. There are trees that can survive indoors, but I know of exactly one dude who has developed quality bonsai indoors, despite hundreds or thousands having tried.
Good drainage will mean you never over water. Was the juniper indoors? The biggest mistake is people trying to protect junipers they need and enjoy harsh winters
I agree. I have a 64-year-old ficus microcarpa "green island" bonsai that I have been growing indoors for the past 29 years. It's perfectly happy and beautiful.
It will work indoors because indoor will be not as cold as outside but it will need tropics level lights too to thrive properly, because tropics are hot humid and super sunny almost 8-9 months of a year and some places which don't get cold enough and stay sunny year round grow best ficus in tropics.
I'm 50 years at this, too. It's important to understand that creating the illusion of age is just as important as miniaturization. Some of the myths I've heard are "You have to keep them in the dark to stunt their growth" and "you can't ever feed a bonsai."
I got into the craft of bonsai at the beginning of the pandemic as a side hobby to do while stuck at home. It has become fantastic part of my day watering and maintaining these trees as well as an excellent lesson in patience and appreciation of nature and life itself. I now have 4 trees and hopefully more to come. Amazing video I had been wondering about the science surrounding how bonsai worked for a while. Thank you!
I've been in the aquarium hobby for many years now. That being said I haven't gotten around to salt water yet because as a Uni student I don't have enough money for a chiller or space for a large tank. But I have multiple high tech planted aquariums, and breeding tanks that take many hours of work a week. I'm not sure you can compare the two. While yes, aquariums are a lot of work I think that bonsai can be equally as time consuming and challenging as the aquarium hobby. Having to remove wire at exactly the right time, consistently water, constantly prune (depending on the species) and more.
I had an orange tree for about 20 years that was in a 5 gallon pot the whole time. It only got about 30" tall, but would flower and grow fruit. Smelled great when it would bloom. Spent the Ohio summers outside and winters inside. It ended up being a miniature orange tree
"Bonzai shows that life can be beautiful within the struggle." I'm having rough times lately, feels like giving up at times. This quote really cheers me up.
I am a bonsai artists and I’ve also been through some terribly dark times in my life. I take great comfort in seeing the most revered trees in bonsai, trees that have become strong because of their struggle, not in spite of it.
Hahaha right. The author of the paper studied dwarf trees in the wild and noticed similarities in structure to bonsai. I think it was a natural transition for him and the team to study bonsai cells and compare to wild type.
I am a bonsai enthusiast, some are 50 years old, and I am also a tree and garden enthusiast so I grow full size trees in my backyard. Over the years my wife and I have owned several larger properties whereon we planted hundreds of trees before moving on. Having revisited some of these places I found them denuded of all but grass and the explanation has been, "Well it's boring and time consuming having to mow around trees" (With a ride on mower!). My latest garden is small with a an effort at Japanese Courtyard style but the majority of trees I now keep in pots, not all bonsai, so that if we move again I can either take them with us or sell them to other people who will appreciate them.
We haven't been able to prove that plants can "feel" yet, so it's not so much torture as manipulating a set of parameters for an organic machine. Bonsai are fascinating, often beautiful miniaturized trees with deep cultural ties. People can feel whatever way they wish about whether or not the practice of crafting bonsai harms the tree, but in the end it is a practice that keeps these trees alive for dozens to hundreds of years, providing their owners with tranquility and happiness as their caretakers.
Great video man, usually watching bonsai videos made by people who don't practise the art can be kind of cringe but that was spot on. You made a good decision going and seeing Robert Pressler, and your explanations of the workings of trees was just enough. It goes much deeper then that but for a short punchy video it was just right.
Thank you! I really wanted to include an expert in the field. And for sure, there is so much to bonsai, which is why I just wanted to focus on the science. Thanks for the kind words 🙏🏾
There's no way you could assume that it's doing actual harm to the tree. After all you reassure the plant has got all it needs to survive and actually flourish on a smaller scale since you're eliminating the constant struggle for survival that happens in nature
Not really. To maintain bonsai plants you are frequently cutting back it's roots and branches to stifle the growth. The plant has no reason to think [plants can't think] (react in a way) that it's in a safe environment when we are literally cutting back it's only forms of nutritional intake. The act of cutting the plant as a form of harming/hurt the plant? That is a whole other debate IMO.
...bonsai care is based on ensuring that the tree's life is a co Stany struggle for survival - via cutting the roots and branches, it's only means of getting nutrition. The small leaves and branches are a sign of that struggle, not a thing a tree is designed to do.
@@jezackr3500 you do realize there’s hordes of animals nibbling on a normal plant’s leaves and roots anyways, right? Cutting the roots and branches isn’t really a major inconvenience for the plant, because if it was then wild plants wouldn’t be looking too great right now. And to be honest, it’s kind of weird to debate the ethics of something that doesn’t even have any form of brain that we know of. Like could it be there? Yeah sure, is it? Not to any extent as far as we know.
To turn that around: there's no way you could prove that it's NOT doing harm to the tree either. Trees don't have a central nervous system, so it's unlikely they feel pain in the same way animals (including humans) do, but we still don't know how they might experience things. For all we know, it might indeed be torture. We just don't know.
Trees are so insanely, intensely versatile and resistant. I’ve seen pictures of flat trees, basket trees, sideways trees, tree bridges, desert trees, trees growing out of other trees, trees precariously hanging off boulders like that picture of a cat on a partially collapsed tower. I adore trees because they dgaf, as long as they’re thriving. My favorite bonsai ever is the apple tree that made a full sized apple. It’s beautiful. I love that tree. It said “f*ck yeah, I’m gonna do the thing.” I am glad more people are consciously thinking about plants and fungi as more than just biological machines. But they’re also an entirely different form of life to us. I once saw a documentary about snowball earth. The narrator started off by talking about sea sponges and squeezed the sponge through a strainer. I got upset. He then said it’s okay, they don’t feel pain because sea sponges are colonies of single cell organisms. They’ll regroup and be just fine. I thought it was hilarious that he did that, but also very insightful about how we humans, as a social species, empathize with others to survive. But how it’s also important to understand that not everything exists in the same way as us. One thing that seems torturous to us is entirely different to something else. Cool video, thank you for sharing!
In my local park there is a tree growing out of a tree that grew out of another tree. They were all previously branches of the fallen trees all relatively young compared to some other trees in the park. Close enough to a stream that overflows regularly I guess?
I have accidentally done it to a rose bush because I wanted to keep it in one pot and indoor under artificial lighting. Once every year, I also trim the root so it doesn’t become root bound
The oldest recorded practice of growing trees in pots is actually in Egypt where herbalists grew medicinal trees in pots so they could have a variety on hand when needed rather than constantly going out in search of herbal medicines.
Wow, wow, wow. Thanks so very much for giving me an insight into the science of bonsai. I have been working with bonsai since the mid 1980s and I didn't have a clue about the science end. I hope that bonsai continues to grow as a hobby around the world and that we adults share this knowledge and delight with younger generations. Thanks again!
When I hike, I always gravitate and find astonishing beauty in the trees growing we’re not supposed to. Like from a crack in a boulder. I’ll often pause and try to imagine the brutal existence of that tree. Imagine nights, days, storms, forcing your way thru something harder then you to always reach up and to the light. It’s brutally beautiful
i don't understand people who can type out complaints that "bonsai making is sadistic, cruel, and torturous" as they're sitting on their comfy wooden bedframe in a warm wooden house. like pick a struggle.
It's the first video I've watched on your channel and I have something to say: your content has the same quality as the best science channels on youtube, it's perfect for inspiring curiosity about scientific topics. Carry on, you seem to have found something you're really good at
I had no idea the leaves shrank. I always thought that they just chose species that had small leaves. I had a juniper bonsai for 8 years. I was training it droop over the side of the pot so that the branches go lower than the bottom of the pot (which is sitting on a plant stand). It died when I was very sick for a few months the same year we had a severe drought. I wasn't getting outside enough to water it. I thought the person who was helping me take care of my pets was watering it when she came but we apparently had a miscommunication on that.
I started a little terrarium a few years ago in an empty candle jar that's still thriving today, and like with bonsai trees, the plants inside adapted to it by shrinking down. I took one leaf from a succulent plant for it, and the leaf was about the same size as my thumbnail. But today, each leaf on the plant is only 2-3 cm each
You can actually find natural bonsia trees under certain rare harsh conditions. At first when I was younger like as a kid I thought it was cruel to the tree cause all I heard about it, is they cut the roots, but as long as it's well taken care of, that bonsia tree usually thrives more then the grass in peoples yards, or gold fish people keep and think the goldfish are ok in small bowls. Now that I'm older I realized it's not as awful as it sounded and that the trees could potentially grow bigger if put in the right circumstances., and it's just a tree your keeping as a semi house plant. Will I ever own one? No. Do I admire the art form, yes. the tree is just gonna tree.
Having a bonsai is literally a symbiosis - there's a far greater chance the tree would perish in the wild naturally, not even getting CLOSE to reaching maturity. A caring, mindful bonsai artist gives the tree a chance, does everything to make it thrive, protects from dangers of parasytes and herbivores, and in return the little tree pleases, amazes, inspires or even provide a kind of emotional support for people. It's no different to having a houseplant or a pet. Or planting or caring for a tree in a city.
and then it would be of use to thousands of other species, depending on where it died. instead, it's a fancy little thing to sit on your shelf all gnarled and fucked up because teehee I put a golf ball in its trunk.
@@bunniesbunniesbunnie so would you... hehe jk Seriously, you should redirect your anger towards something more significant like the old, massive forests being cut down as you're reading this, whole ecosystems destroyed by human hands, most of the species going extinct, all the pollution going down in our soil, seas and up into the sky. Soon, it all will change the WHOLE world for worse. And here you are, going on a noble crusade for "ethics" about bonsai. Something as trivial as a few potted trees, plus likely of a very common species. If anything, you should at least appreciate that it educates and makes more people interested in nature and plants. It's not a one day hooliganism like "I'm just gonna put a ball in its trunk" (like where did you even got that from?), it takes years, dedication, perseverance and passion or love for one's work... I agree ethics should be discussed, but you're clearly blind to our current priorities. Once we as a mankind deal with the irreversible crisis in clear sight, animal abuse and global warming we're causing, we can have discussion about the matter of growing potted trees in certain positions, shall we?
Your bonsai looks amazing! Im going bonsai since i am 10 too! Now im 24 and got a lot of them. Some died some are beautiful now! Its a very long term hobby. Im also glad someone said "its not for indoors" thats probably the reason 90% of the bonsai die. My tip: buy or create at least 3 bonsai. The chance one will live for a long time is increased :)
One thing that is also interesting about bonsias is that in Japan the way their cut, shape is symboilic. You get an upright branch growing towards heaven, a heaven princiiple branch and a diagnonal on that symbolises man and a branch that grows towards the earth, I suppose a reality inclined branch, for example. Also, cutting them is slow, an a meditative process, a process that if done right helps the person get quieter. ward off a nervous break down, or some awfillly violent tendencies with any luck. On being done quietly, the person uses less nervous tension and so is left with plenty of energy for other tasks, or even an increase of energy. Sometimes this slowness ends up meaning that the person is much faster and more efficient at an activity, iin macial arts for example, but as far s i have seen cuttign bonsais is always a slow process.
For peopel that think using wire to bind parts of the tree is like foot binding, or torture, it's not. For one, foot binding required breaking the bones in the foot, usually in the middle or near the heel, then binding the foot into a folded over shape that has to be bound for the rest of the person's life to keep it that way. The foot needs to regurally be cleaned with treatment solutions and can become infected if not properly cared for. Inversely, the bending of a tree branch into a configuration over time has no adverse effect on the tree. The wires used in bonsai can be thought of more like guides that suggest the tree to move into a desired configuration. Trees are very good at taking different shapes over time naturally, and many of them do this in nature on their own (say a tree that is growing right beside a cliff wall), and once the tree has adapted to the suggested shape, it will stay that way on it's own unless some factor causes it to change shape again. One such factor that can actually determine the formation of branches on a natural tree is the position of the sunlight. If you keep a houseplant on your counter or window sill, and you have ever turned it, you might have noticed it will naturally start growing in the direction of the light. With a tree that becomes shaded on one side, this can happen as well, it will start putting more effort into the side of itself that recieves more sunlight, it might just take longer to be noticable.
Wow, that was really good. Just a simple click after waking up added so much to my perspective. I never viewed plant or tree manipulation as torture by any measure, but I appreciated your outlook on it, whereas I'd just roll my eyes if someone said that. Thanks for hopefully being my new go-to!
Thanks for the awesome comment! I definitely wanted to show all perspectives of bonsai (or anything for that matter) to show diversity of thought, but then also add my opinion because I think my opinion is good 😂. Cheers man!
I work in an orchard. When we replant a field we usually remove the saplings from the plastic pots they’re in, prune the roots and plant them each facing towards specific direction. Then we trim off the branches near the base of the tree trunk and place a paper cover box over them. After some time we’ll go back and drive a wooden stake about +6” away from the sapling. After some more time passes we will prune branches that aren’t “necessary” or that are damaged/dead. Then we’ll wrap the branches with either twine or some black and orange rope( don’t know what it’s called but it looks like plastic) and we repeat this process. We do this with almond trees btw in California
It just didnt make sense for a miniscule cells to become even smaller cell. I guess all the time I've spent in Biology class isnt wasted after all. As Bonsai beginner, I also think that the wire is torturing the tree. But in reality, the wire are not meant to torture or strangle the tree. In fact wire marks are not ideal for bonsai.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist I've seen full sized trees that engulf iron railings, I never thought a bit of wire would trouble them too much. Trees are brilliant. Even the one at the bottom of my garden that has moved the top row of bricks on my wall.
The thing I learned from the video is that the artform of Bonsai is limitless. Just from the video, you can turn trees into natural art or add props for the bonsai to grow through like geometric shapes, bone, metal, whatever prop you'd like. Not to mention how intricate you could make the art using tools. It's really badass. I also think for those against bonsai, given the "trauma" of bonsai the tree would die long before becoming art. Considering the "trauma" of clipping and wire being used as a guidance tool. I just dont see a "negative" of bonsai.
I love seeing natural bonsai trees where I live. In a semi rare occasion on the rocky coastal shores there is a tiny pine growing on a tiny plot of soil right at the edge of the sea where heavy winds and lack of nutirents slow down it’s growth. There is no way for you to accurately judge it’s age. It’s trunk is burled and twisty but the tree is barely 5ft tall when an acerage full grown pine of it’s species is ~80-85ft.
Im currently growing 8 trees from seeds i got from store apples. So far they are coming along quite well for a first attempt. They haven’t reached a stage where they need to be trimmed or shaped yet but they are as of now quite strong. I am growing them while trying to spend as little money as possible such as making pots out of recycled materials. I only paid for apples and a mini watering can.
You cannot torture a plant, you can immorally kill a plant (If you kill it for no reason), but it cannot feel pain. These trees cannot think, it should be appreciated as a environmentally friendly artform. (it is)
@@mushmush4980 So do all living things, even single-celled organisms communicate both internally and with each other. The notion that every lifeform is precious is silly, considering how brutal nature is towards itself and how you kill thousands upon thousands of organisms every time you e.g. wash anything (hands, dishes, laundry, floor, car...)
@@mikehunt3420 who said anything about sentience And why do you guys think I'm disagreeing with the guy or trying to make a point, I'm just saying that they do feel electrical and chemical distress to a small degree
People will, in all seriousness, talk about torture when it comes to plants and continue to eat animals, it's baffling! Thank you for this super interesting video, just found you and I'm subscribing! Keep up the great work :)
I wouldn't go as far as to say bonsai is torture, but limiting the potential of growth of a living thing purely for aesthetic purposes seems a bit cruel to me personally. The only time I tend to trim plants/bushes/trees is when they're growing out of control to the point where it would be detrimental to their own health or survivability. As for animals, I eat them because they taste good and because I don't have to kill them/butcher them myself. If I had to raise an animal with the end goal of killing and butchering it, I don't think I'd actually be able to because I love most animals. I think there's a lot of cruelty involved in the process of raising animals solely for human consumption, but at the same time most of those animals wouldn't exist if they weren't there to be eaten by us. This applies to plants too, with the main difference being the apparent lack of consciousness that plants display.
@@shneershiishonest You make a good point! I don't think I would want to raise bonsai either because it just doesn't feel right to me. Regardless, animals are a whole different topic and if you're interested in reducing suffering I highly recommend that you check out awesome channels like Earthling Ed's. Ultimately, by paying for meat and animal products, one creates a demand. By not consuming these products, the average person can save about 100 sentient animals per year. Additionally, you can decrease your environmental footprint by going vegan more than you could by any other measure. Sorry for the long comment haha. Earthling Ed and others say it way better than I can, I really hope you check him out because you seem genuinely interested in being kind :) Have a good one!
@@johnwhite1534 Yeah, from what we know there's no such thing as plant torture. I'm just amazed at how people wouldn't want to risk a plant feeling inconvenienced but have no issues hurting beings with the same capacity for suffering as us. That, to me, is the ultimate example for cognitive dissonance.
Bonsai is an interest I had many months ago. I wanted to do a miniature rose bush from a cutting and give it away to a woman I liked after budding for the first time. Sadly, it got eaten by an animal. My thoughts on the subject, though: It's an art form that requires time, dedication and learning. It harmonizes Mankind's will to create with Nature's will to survive.
Honestly shocked me when you said you were almost at 1k subscribers at the end of the video. This is top tier content dude, up there with smarteveryday and those other big science channels
We sort of do this to certain tropical house plants so we can keep them trailing in hanging baskets over growing up poles and getting too big. The only main difference is the type of plant and how/conditions they're grown. Also depending on speices they certainly can indeed be grown indoors. I'm currently growing 3 varieties of lilly pilly as bonsai and if they were outside atm they'd die of frost bite through the roots at night!
So for bonsai trees, he said to grow them outside, do you still do that in winter? Do you only keep bonsai out in winter if the tree normally deals with it anyway and keep tropical bonsai inside over winter?
People usually choose bonsai that are compatible with the climate they live in. That way you can leave them outdoors all year round. (Though you might have to bring them inside on an especially cold winter night)
great story telling voice! amazing content. love the editting. dude keep it like this and you will someday have like 10 million subscribers! this is one of those channels. dont give up!
So I guess bonsai aren't all that different from naturally-occuring "Krummolz", the kind of trees you get when stuff like pine or juniper grow in poor soil near or above the tree line, with strong winds and little water. Not quite as manicured, of course, but the overall conditions are similar. I wonder if that's where the original inventors of Bonsai got the inspiration to begin with.
There are many many styles of bonsai and some of these styles (in particular literati style) are extremely representative of those trees. Bonsai is supposed to mimic natural form. Many also show form of broad leaf trees in less extreme style. Its a fantastic hobby
Some bonsai artists actually just collect the tree's straight from the wild where they have been growing in a krumholtz form. If you search yamadori you'll see some beautiful examples.
Bought a little fig bonsai at home depot around 20 years ago. He still sits healthily and proudly on my chair side table in the family room, sprouting beautiful miniature, white Flowers every Spring and late Summer.
Imagine describing anything related to gardening as torture for the plants. Is pulling weeds itty bitty genocide? Is taking fruit from a tree a form of cultural appropriation? One can make an argument for animals, but plants? Humans can be so weird in the first world
there are more things humans can do that are more important than an art form just to bend a tree and make it look pretty, or to have some broad statement behind it, the art form are the words "time" and "patience" in disguise. all plants have the ability to adapt, and will grow healthy in that soil once they have adapted, or if they're damaged, they'll come back. you cannot physically torture a plant like most people think you can. infact, most trees are abnormally shaped BECAUSE of nature herself, damaged by it, and even killed just by their own species because plants somewhat follow natural selection. you can get the same outcome by simply having patience, and not forcing anything in this world to do something, that includes us, plants, bugs, and animals. endofconvolol
Good video, I've been looking for scientific videos on bonsai and found this. I'm trying to understand WHY you should do bonsai techniques rather than just doing it because it's what others do. Thanks from the UK
Thanks man, I’m all about the science 🔬 I’m a bit confused by your question. Can you please elaborate? Are you referring to the specific techniques in bonsai rather than just going Willy Nilly?
Really well informed video! As someone who owns a few bonsais I am really happy to see such a well documented video on this hobby. The mention of it's culture of origins is also something that I believe to be of importance to the topic. There is indeed a lot of controversial topics about bonsais, such as torture. It isn't a far fetch, plants do have a level of conciousness, they acknowledge their enviroments and react accordingly to their surroundings. Their sentience is important for evolution, acknowledging shifts in climate, temperature and seasons is a key to further survival. However, I do think that, if done right, growing bonsais is an incredibly delicate procedure, it can certainly be claustrophobic to the plant, but in the end "product", it is no far from a regular tree, it just adapted to a smaller size. However, if you are to grow a fruit bearing bonsai, do try to grow one that does not cause too much weight on the tree, as it may damage the branches and hurt it in the process. I was personally a bit shocked to think about the theory of the cells being smaller. It never crossed my mind, I always thought that reducing cell size would impossibilitate the growth of the plants. Anyways, for anyone who got an interest in bonsais due to the video, I always recommend adenium obesum (desert roses) for newbies! Although they are not really trees, but succulents, they can be turned into a bonsai, and out in the wild, they can grow up to 6 feet tall. And turning them into bonsai really is no harm at all! Given it's origins conditions, desert roses are used to being restricted in size (yes, there are natural bonsais out there), it is apart of their evolution trait, and they are quite pretty when they bloom.
While I don't see bonsai as crippling a tree, I do think the over-use of wire as on your tree and others in this video shows a slight difference in the bonsai I learned when I started the hobby. The point is partially to mimic nature and not just make a tree into what you want. There is an art to choosing a tree which would make a good bonsai based on its structure before pruning and then making the tree look "natural" like one would see in the woods, on a cliff, etc. What this means is you try to find a small tree that already has this aesthetic so that you have to do the least amount of pruning and wiring as possible. The reason you want to do the least amount of wiring is because you are trying to connect with nature (and nature isn't always a Disney movie or painting), but also because the wiring can definitely damage the tree since the limbs and trunk will expand and eventually the wire may become imbedded into the tree (which is bad for the tree - which I assume you know if you're a botanist). So if you choose to wire? You will have to monitor and rewire before the cuts start or risk damaging the limbs . But I was taught that Bonsai is more trying to make the tree into a smaller version of what it would be when grown (based on current structure or its native region) rather than what we want it to be with wiring. Not every bonsai should need to look like it is on some windswept cliff to be appreciated. The only thing I would add that I learned when started bonsai is that the small pot is also key to the small plant - it's not just pruning. It limits the root size and supposedly the smaller roots keep the plant small as well. I guess it can't take in as many nutrients through the soil? I'm more into it for the artistic and nature appreciation aspects as you can likely tell. That said, most hobbyists only put them in the small decorative pot when selling or showing - they otherwise keeping them in larger pots and just prune the roots each year.
Enjoyed the video! I'm just starting my adventure into bonsai with 5 species in cold stratification as we speak!! Can't wait. Gonna take a few cuttings of Colorado blue spruce tomorrow as well! I like the concept for your channel so I''d be happy to support your work by subbing! Good video editing as well!
Sounds exciting! I'd love to see pics when you're all done with shaping. My email is thebackpackingbiologist@gmail.com if you'd like to show me. Thanks for subbing and for the kind words
I don't want to discourage you, Tee Dee, and you'll probably prove me wrong, but it is very hard to get cuttings of spruce to take root. Try Japanese maples or willows - much easier.
@@maryannhinden2719 I'm using an aeroponics system to improve the odds also found a method of splitting the base of the branch to improve rooting odds. I will let you know it if works out!
I believe bonsai is the art of a balance with nature, almost the consciousness of the tree and yourself bond, and come to an agreement of art and nature. Plants can pick up on positive and negative energy. And if everyone who sees it gets a smile and appreciates nature a bit more with that positive energy, they feel that. I currently have 15 bonsai with a collective age of about 120 years.
Don't all plants react to their environment, changing shape depending on conditions and location? Like you were saying, their shape tells their story of their experiences. It is true that every tree has the potential to grow into something greater, but every time, what they become is altered by their environment. I don't see this as sad at all, dont we all go through the same ourselves? Do we mourn what we could've been; the shape we could've taken as people if our environment were different? We don't, because that's what makes every person, every plant and animal unique and gives meaning to our experiences. Bonsai trees are at the mercy of their surroundings, and the shape they take is highly dependant on the one who shapes it. Can't the same be said for everything?
"More work than a goldfish" Uh yeah no. Most people have no clue how to take care of goldfish and kill them in less than 5 years. those little guys are meant to live 10-15 years. If you don't own a small pond you probably shouldn't have goldfish as pets. you are dooming them to suffering.
I bought my first bonsai 🌲 tree kit today and I’m very exited is fascinating to think you can make miniature copies of big trees, also I’m using it as therapy to relieve my anxiety
Man, I'm really dissapointed. People get mad over bending trees and planting them in small pot but perfectly fine with eating parts/entirety of plants. Plants felt pains is such a pseudo science, they will grow as long as the condition suit them, whether they're in small pot or big forest.
I'm so confused that people could think smaller leaves are made of smaller cells.. cell size is highly dependent on function, you can't just change cell sizes in most cases. It would only make sense if they're genetically distinct.
Why recreate adversity? I'm definitely part of that sub-group against bonsai - it's crippling trees for just aesthetics and there's also some weird control issues to unpack around it. Just get some plants that are good for your local wildlife.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist thank you, a good point. Also like to mention that all these people say its torture to plants because it stops them growing, yet don't bat an eye when they go out and cut their grass.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist Respect. Looking forward to the plant sentience vid.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist Okay, while I have no issues with Bonsai and I agree that it isn't particularly harmful. By only addressing the tone of the question you still didn't answer the question in truth. Your answer is a bit of a tu quoque fallacy. You're relying on the hypocrisy that the OP would realistically have. But the question still stands. Why create adversity for the Bonsai? Wouldn't the answer just be, because it's beautiful? And to imply it's torturous or harmful is a bit extreme? To humor that it's torturous would also imply that trees feel pain without a brain or pain receptors. Furthermore. To add insult to injury, "Another youtube channel name "Isn't probably thinking very hard about things like..trimming a hedge in someone's front yard so it doesn't overgrow.
Sure, that’s a good way to put it. I’ve had this convo so many times in the comments and I’ve answered it many ways 👍🏾 but such a short answer like that it isn’t getting to the core of the problem, which is why I felt I needed to write my response.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist youre insane. so manipulative and neurotic. In your last sentence of your dramatic rant you gave the guy a point to argue which is so condescending and pathetic. was wondering why everyone who was being interviewed seem so freaked out and kept inching away.
There are also natural bonsai, they form in small pockets of soil on certain rock formations and are really rare.
Totally! I love seeing trees growing in places like that. It's always impressive
thats true. i live in finland and have visited the very north, and the trees were small and other vegetation was a lot less dense. i think bonsai is very pretty and like mentioned in the video, perhaps treated better than many other trees.
I've seen a few trees like that while hiking in PA. They aren't as small as bonsai but they're definitely alot smaller than their counterparts. Super sturdy and great to hold onto.
There’s also people with only one arm, doesn’t mean you are free to cut one arm of a person with two arms
@johnjohnsfutures Plants have indeterminate growth, meaning they don't have a set number of limbs, leaves, roots, girth... they grow as many as needed. People have determinate growth. We have two arms, two legs, one heart.. etc. You cut off a limb on a tree, they grow another. Humans can't. Hope that clears things up!
People like to talk about "torturing" trees like they don't cut their grass every week.
ngl I prefer planting weeds
Fr like you put a sweater on a cat and it's animal cruelty - now plant cruelty? Are they just gonna starve and not eat any living thing? Like where does it end? Lmao
ikr
@@XenaAndKin there is a 4 at the end of your name and it says you posted 20 minutes ago lol
Oh no now you guys know I burn plants too I've revealed what a monster I am 😔
Trees don't put snakes and mice in the yard
All Bonsai can revert and grow normal if you replant them. Bonsai can preserve rare species by strengthening the trunks and replanting after several years of pruning. And you do not have to deplete the nutrients, all you have to do is continuously pruning, which will increase the strength of the trunk. You can resurrect a whole forest using Bonsai techniques.
that's so cool and interesting!
Thanks for your comment, that's really cool.
Using less nutrients and growing plants in tough conditions will make them more adaptive as well! Hardening off plants is a really great way to achieve resiliency.
wow i never thought about that! amazing. Thanks for your comment!
Bonsaing isn't just pruning, but yes proper pruning is beneficial to trees, not making them miniature and wired up
A friend of mine has a bonsai store and it's doing really well, in fact he said if business continues in this current direction he'll be able to move into a smaller store soon.
Lol christ
Lmao
The smaller the store, the stronger the artist!
Wow
Online only is the play if possible
I like the part that bonsai tree can grow big if allowed and can still make fruit/seed... so we could theoretically save endangered giant trees by making bonsais of them and have a hope that one day... there will be place where they can / their offspring can grow big again.
That's a really good point!
Dude that could conserve and save so many trees species!!!
I mean, we already fo that with seed of seedlings of native trees, bonsai trees aren't necessary, but I love how you think!
@@lovelyyolk9066 indeed, but says people dont care about the big trees but they love the bonsai version.. big trees get cut by logging companies.. it still be a little hope?
That’s a fascinating thought. If there is not enough resources (no habitat because of, perhaps, climate change?) a small version in an artificially maintained habitat until there is hope for habitat restoration. Very cool idea.
"Trees never ask for a lighter burden, only for broader shoulders"
Now that's an inspirational quote.
It’s one of my faves!
“Trees never ask for anything, that’s why we cut them and burn them for fun” here is another one :)
@@Ak-xq6gb You know some trees require fire's to germinate, which is any organism's primary objective. So those trees would probably say thank you :)
"...only for broader shoulders"
> In the context of an art where their shoulders are stunted.
That's why we cut off their shoulders lol
So, a bonsai could theoretically become a normal, huge tree when planted elsewhere. But the question is, is a tree “happier” when it grows way bigger? Or is the tree happy when it’s small too? The obvious answer is no, the tree doesn’t care. Another answer would be “we have no way of knowing.” People like to assign emotions to things, but a lot of the time those emotions are just projections of our own feelings.
People assign the wrong emotions to animals too, even though we know animals can feel emotion, people still misunderstand them and describe them incorrectly. This happens all the time.
So even when we find out trees can experience emotion (and some evidence already suggests this) we would probably still force our own perspective onto them, like we do now.
What we do know for a fact is that plants do what they do, with the conditions they are given. Are they “satisfied” being the tree that they are? I don’t think trees know this concept. I think people shouldn’t anthromorphise their idea of “succes and satisfaction” onto plants. In fact, people already project their ideas of success onto other people and animals who don’t need it. The trees definitely don’t need it either.
Your right. Plants don´t feel because feelings and emotions are transported by the central nerve system. Plants don´t have that. They run on biochemical processes just like we do but simpler and without the CNS. I still think people should care more about plants because even without feelings they are a form of life and so they should be respected.
Short answer trees don't have centralised nervous systems.
I talk to them yesterday the bonsais and they said yes, they will be happier if their bigger.
@@blitzaxis what herb u gotta smoke to do that?
@@YuBeace those five fingers make a good connection man.. them are the bridge between the communication on human and plant world. Its like 5g or LTE man
Bonsai can definitely grow into full-fledged trees--as a kid, my mother bought a Japanese maple bonsai tree, but had no idea how to care for one. So she would move it to a larger pot every year, for whatever reason, and the tree would continue growing. It is now taller than me and flourishing outdoors!
This is actually really helpful, thank you. I accidentally bought a bonsai tree that I thought was a smaller variety, and I'm not sure I want to keep it as bonsai but didn't know if it could grow back to its natural state. Well, maybe not its fully natural state as that's apparently about 15 metres or more. Not sure my suburban neighbours would thank me for that!
@topazmine1086 I hope your neighbors wouldn't have a problem with someone planting a tree in the neighborhood...
If they do, tell 'em to sit on it and rotate😂
Potting up a bonsai doesn't not make it a bonsai!
Technically there's no size limit to a bonsai, so theoretically, a bonsai can be exactly the same as a regular tree. The term bonsai really just refers to the artist's intent.
One thing that the nursery owner got wrong, bonsai's CAN be grown indoors. I'm sitting in my apartment in New England in February, looking at my little lemon bonsai trees that would never survive a winter here. Also, I know of many people at my latitude and above that grow tropical bonsai's indoors.
You're right. After some research, there are a few species that enjoy the indoor coziness of a house. I believe what Bob was pointing out the large misconception that all bonsai's are indoor plants. Although, I love how there are always exceptions to rules, it's just like nature, and life for that matter :)
Love the idea of bonsai citrus ... do you get fruits?
@@TheBackpackingBiologist #TheTrueBiologicalLessonOfBonsai:
If there is even the smallest chance of a way to grow and evolve, Life will find it; given enough time...
You actually do get normal size fruits, from what Bob told me. But they do add a large stress to the tree since the fruit grow normal sized.
So true! 🙌🏾
To the people saying that growing bonsais is torture, I just want to say that many of the training methods are also applies in other tree nurseries, where the trees for parks, streets and gardens are grown. They are repotted, pruned (the roots too), wired and they get limited amounts of nutrients in order to grow into the desired shape. Of course, it isn't neccessary to keep bonsais at such a small size when the trees could become much bigger, but as long as they are kept healthy I don't see a problem with it. I think that few wild trees actually have the resources to grow to their full potential, and especially not the ones that grow in urban settings.
Also plants don’t have brains and can’t think. Ive never understood the logic
@@texassherman7093 I know, right? Maybe it's more about humans controlling other species and abusing their power. No clue...
People complaining about tree torture should probably stop eating at all, and receive all their nutrients from photosynthesis. That way they'll avoid hurting any plants.
doesn't really matter anyways tree aren't sentient you can't "torture" them in any meaningful way that isnt just entirely project onto them by us. really seems like a non-issue to me
@@ksanchez8095 Hahaa, imagine people being green like Hulk because they are doing photosynthesis 😂 Would definitely be good for climate
As a bonsai enthusiast with many of my own personal trees and a student in his bachelors in biology I found this video really refreshing and well informed. Thanks for making my morning a bit more interesting and my hobby a bit more scientific.
Best comment so far, you’re my exact demographic haha. Anytime! Take care and thanks
My husband is not a bonsai enthusiast, but he found the video really interesting. So did I.
@@maryannhinden2719 That's awesome! I'm glad you both liked it. Thanks
Hi dude, I got a question.
If I grow a bonsai fruit tree, say apple or something like that, will it carry bonsai apples aswell?
Sorry for my bad english
@@mightykitty5870 No. Usually they'll give regular sized fruit. It might be slightly smaller as the tree may have less resources to put into the fruit. You can use fruit trees that give small fruit for a proportional tree. For example, crab apple, cherry, plums and apricots, etc.
i’ve never heard of people being against bonsai, that’s crazy to me. no one who keeps plants ever wants to hurt them, especially bonsai artists considering how much meticulous work they put into caring for them
A common misconception! It's due to the fact that mankind consider themselves the ONLY Earthlings.
@@Lou.B It is a plant
@@saudade7842He never said anything to the contrary 🤨
Same. I wanted to get into roses and there's a similar level of obsession on that. Though honestly, vegetable gardening is enough work for me already.
Lies again? Burning Sun Art Of Seduction
Bonsai are also easier to store than a fully grown tree, so it playes a part in preservation.
You could have a full metal rack of 20 bonsai but not a single full tree would fit there
I don't think making bonsais of endangered trees is a viable conservation strategy. Otherwise people would probably be doing that. For one thing, it inhibits their ability to flower and fruit as well as a full-sized tree.
@@SR-ck8gu "Otherwise people would probably be doing that"
They probably are. "it inhibits their ability to flower and fruit as well as a full-sized tree."
You can take cuttings and root them.
Course it would!
@@SR-ck8gu yes, because they aren’t full sized trees
@@JarthenGreenmeadow cuttings are naturally small life forms not large life forms which have been contorted through the use of strong braces to appear small
The nursery my son works at in Japan has trees some so old they aren’t sure their age. They live over 100 years if taken care of properly. His channel is Bonsai Harmony:)
That’s awesome! I’ll check it out. I’ve met some trees that are likely 1000 because they were taken from the wild and maintained as a bonsai 😳 they’re quite wild!
"Life can be beautiful within the struggle" those words hit home so hard for me just now. I truly needed to hear that today.
I'm glad they did, take care brother
Thanks
The way I've always seen it is: yes, bonsai is cut back yearly and bent into different shapes, but this happens in nature all the time. A wild tree might lose its branches due to storms and wildlife, it will bend into shapes to reach the canopy in a dense forest, the only difference in bonsai is the trees are treated with respect, love, attention, and kept until and even after they perish from old age. The bonsai artist and the tree work together to make decisions on what to cut and how to shape with one idea in mind "will this tree survive and furthermore live prosperous after"
Absolutely this.
I love walking in Snowdonia and due to the rocky terrain and lots of wind you'll see ancient Oak trees that are permanently looking like a bush being blown sideways, they just respond to the conditions and survive.
Yes people are deliberately restricting the tree, but by the same token by having a passion for Bonsai we're also deliberately planting more trees and learning about how plants grow, most bonsai enthusiasts are probably more eco conscious and in favour of protecting woodland and forests than your average person.
Roots systems do not get pruned in nature.
@@ryannechvatal9888 actually they do...let me introduce you to root maggots, root aphids, root mealybugs, and root wevils..
They all like to eat the root part of plants and such...so yes..the roots do get cut down in nature
@@ryannechvatal9888 and why does it matter?
@Lilium Kuronatasa They feed on feeder roots not the tap root which is the most important part of the plant.
I have an uncle who's hobby is making bonsais. He's retired and does them for his home, because he loves it. He can make any type of tree into a bonsai, for example tangerine trees, and they look SO cute with the little fruits once they grow adult (they get ripe and you can even eat the little toy-sized tangerines). It is a patience builder discipline... he's the "Sensei Miyagi" in the family. BTW, all his bonsai trees look happily beautifully healthy because he really takes care of them, if they were being "tortured" they would probably die. You need to understand that plants can be adaptable
That's true if a plant NEEDS to adapt and doesn't it will die, If an entire species needs to adapt and doesn't it'll go extinct.
I am SO happy I watched this. I was one of those people who looked down on Bonsai as a perversion of trees - and honestly, I should have known better. I've been growing things my whole life ( gardens, flowers, pot, trees...) and after some pondering, I think I was anthropomorphizing the bonsai trees. But like the guy from Kimura Bonsai said- it's not as if the tree is unhappy, it just grows within it's constraints. Thank you very much for making this video!
I'm glad you liked it! thanks for watching. You're gonna love my next video on pain and plant pain, it really tackles anthropomorphizing
@@TheBackpackingBiologist Looking forward to it!
@@B30pt87 thanks
I do Bonsai art as well. Your first styling of the juniper was superb! Keep going, you are a natural.
I always tell people when they ask me if it hurts the trees when I bend them and wire them. I always point to nature for examples. An avalanche, snow storm, thunderstorm, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc do way more damage to trees than I could ever even try in a life time. There are still trees everywhere!!! They will out live us. We will end up food for the trees.
Thanks you! I’m definitely proud of how my tree came out fully knowing I still have a long way to go, I’m totally hooked to bonsai!
Haha that’s a great way of putting it!
True, I was shocked at how good it turned out. And the wiring job was stunning for a first timer
dude they're plants, they're literally (to our best understanding) chemistry factory dividing and is greedy and want to suck up all the nutrients and sunlight to take over the world
"Bonsai shows that life can be beautiful within the struggle."
"Trees never asked for lighter burden, only broader shoulders."
Made me cry
Thanks
Its “pray not for a lighter load but pray for stronger shoulders.” Which has been happily copied over ..by someone who spells cheques as checks …crying so hard😂
@@Jonathan2x6this one better because it says tree not pray
@@blip88 talk about missing the forest for the trees…in this case quite literally.
It makes sense the cells are the same size - after all, the proteins, sugars, the DNA in the nucleus - those cannot shrink, atoms cannot shrink. A cell is usually just the optimal size for protein transportation from one organelle to another to work.
Well cells are mostly just cytoplasm, and for plants vacuole can also play a giant factor in cell size so they may vary quite a lot
@@tonylee1667 that's true, but the question here was wether the same cells - not a different type, could radically change their size and retain the same function. Do correct me if I missing something
@@guardianfish7718 The same cell changes in size and mass throughout its lifetime, so I wouldn't have been too surprised if the cells of bonsai were different in size compared to large trees due to things like inhibited cell divisions and etc
@@tonylee1667 that's quite reasonable
I just placed some seeds in the refrigerator about two weeks ago to begin the stratification process for my very first venture into bonsai. Thank you for explaining the science behind it!
Sounds exciting! Anytime :)
I really enjoyed this video. Every once in a while you find a gem of a video.
I do partially disagree with the idea that bonsai can't be grown indoors. There are some tropical species that work very well inside with the proper care. I have been growing my Ginseng Ficus inside for a few years now and is doing just fine.
Please look after your Juniper, I killed mine by over watering it.
Thanks for the kind words! Yea you’re right, after doing some research, I have seen there are a few species that can handle indoor temps. I think Bob was referring to how the masses think all bonsai can be indoor plants, but I always love the exceptions to the rules! It’s just like nature, there’s always an exception 🙏🏾💪🏾
I've been doing bonsai for a long time. There are trees that can survive indoors, but I know of exactly one dude who has developed quality bonsai indoors, despite hundreds or thousands having tried.
Good drainage will mean you never over water. Was the juniper indoors? The biggest mistake is people trying to protect junipers they need and enjoy harsh winters
I agree. I have a 64-year-old ficus microcarpa "green island" bonsai that I have been growing indoors for the past 29 years. It's perfectly happy and beautiful.
It will work indoors because indoor will be not as cold as outside but it will need tropics level lights too to thrive properly, because tropics are hot humid and super sunny almost 8-9 months of a year and some places which don't get cold enough and stay sunny year round grow best ficus in tropics.
I'm 50 years at this, too. It's important to understand that creating the illusion of age is just as important as miniaturization. Some of the myths I've heard are "You have to keep them in the dark to stunt their growth" and "you can't ever feed a bonsai."
Wow, haven’t heard of these other myths!
I got into the craft of bonsai at the beginning of the pandemic as a side hobby to do while stuck at home. It has become fantastic part of my day watering and maintaining these trees as well as an excellent lesson in patience and appreciation of nature and life itself. I now have 4 trees and hopefully more to come.
Amazing video I had been wondering about the science surrounding how bonsai worked for a while. Thank you!
Love to hear it! Sounds very zen. And I know what you mean, bonsai can be very addicting. Thanks for the comment and good luck!
Great job- much better than I thought it would have been. Thanks for the great job and the shut out.
Thanks Bob! Couldn’t have done it without you
Lookin good Bob!
@@TheBackpackingBiologist pretty popular vid- we should consider a follow up
Definitely! I’ll shoot you an email
@@TheBackpackingBiologist and then another follow up years in the future with the grown bonsai that you made
Coming from someone who is in the aquarium/fish keeping hobby and in the bonsai hobby I would definitely say fish tanks are ALOT more work
Haha I’ll take your word for it!
When he said "more than a goldfish" my reaction was Oh! THAT much?
Just keeping the water balance right, specially for sea life, is such a hassle lol
I've been in the aquarium hobby for many years now. That being said I haven't gotten around to salt water yet because as a Uni student I don't have enough money for a chiller or space for a large tank. But I have multiple high tech planted aquariums, and breeding tanks that take many hours of work a week. I'm not sure you can compare the two. While yes, aquariums are a lot of work I think that bonsai can be equally as time consuming and challenging as the aquarium hobby. Having to remove wire at exactly the right time, consistently water, constantly prune (depending on the species) and more.
pretty sure he just meant your average goldfish youd have as a kid in a bowl lol
I had an orange tree for about 20 years that was in a 5 gallon pot the whole time. It only got about 30" tall, but would flower and grow fruit. Smelled great when it would bloom. Spent the Ohio summers outside and winters inside. It ended up being a miniature orange tree
That's basically a bonsai! So cool :)
"Bonzai shows that life can be beautiful within the struggle."
I'm having rough times lately, feels like giving up at times. This quote really cheers me up.
I'm sorry to hear that you're going through it right now. I hope things start to clear up and I'm glad the quote helped you out
I am a bonsai artists and I’ve also been through some terribly dark times in my life. I take great comfort in seeing the most revered trees in bonsai, trees that have become strong because of their struggle, not in spite of it.
Take a couple of orchids and a few bonsai trees, did me a lot of good 😁
That doesn't apply to you. When you cut a plant in two, you have two plants. When you cut a human in two, you have zero humans.
@@MrCmon113yet, those trees do the possible and the impossible to survive... That's what this is about.
The leaf reduction section is very cool! Totally makes sense but surprising to see there was real academic research into the subject lol
Hahaha right. The author of the paper studied dwarf trees in the wild and noticed similarities in structure to bonsai. I think it was a natural transition for him and the team to study bonsai cells and compare to wild type.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist Just have to say, I like how you're so engaged with the comment seciton
I am a bonsai enthusiast, some are 50 years old, and I am also a tree and garden enthusiast so I grow full size trees in my backyard. Over the years my wife and I have owned several larger properties whereon we planted hundreds of trees before moving on. Having revisited some of these places I found them denuded of all but grass and the explanation has been, "Well it's boring and time consuming having to mow around trees" (With a ride on mower!). My latest garden is small with a an effort at Japanese Courtyard style but the majority of trees I now keep in pots, not all bonsai, so that if we move again I can either take them with us or sell them to other people who will appreciate them.
We haven't been able to prove that plants can "feel" yet, so it's not so much torture as manipulating a set of parameters for an organic machine. Bonsai are fascinating, often beautiful miniaturized trees with deep cultural ties. People can feel whatever way they wish about whether or not the practice of crafting bonsai harms the tree, but in the end it is a practice that keeps these trees alive for dozens to hundreds of years, providing their owners with tranquility and happiness as their caretakers.
🙏🏾
they do.
@@bunniesbunniesbunnie They don't x infinity. Well, that takes care of that argument.
I do love this high level intellectual debate.
@@insertclevernamehere2506 stop abusing trees
@@bunniesbunniesbunnie i go outside every day to punch and spit on the trees in my yard because they like it
Great video man, usually watching bonsai videos made by people who don't practise the art can be kind of cringe but that was spot on. You made a good decision going and seeing Robert Pressler, and your explanations of the workings of trees was just enough. It goes much deeper then that but for a short punchy video it was just right.
Thank you! I really wanted to include an expert in the field. And for sure, there is so much to bonsai, which is why I just wanted to focus on the science. Thanks for the kind words 🙏🏾
Came here to say this 🤣🤣
@@TheBackpackingBiologist when he says deeper he also refers to science... even so I agree that you have made a very good video, congratulations!
Thank you!
There's no way you could assume that it's doing actual harm to the tree. After all you reassure the plant has got all it needs to survive and actually flourish on a smaller scale since you're eliminating the constant struggle for survival that happens in nature
Not really. To maintain bonsai plants you are frequently cutting back it's roots and branches to stifle the growth. The plant has no reason to think [plants can't think] (react in a way) that it's in a safe environment when we are literally cutting back it's only forms of nutritional intake.
The act of cutting the plant as a form of harming/hurt the plant? That is a whole other debate IMO.
...bonsai care is based on ensuring that the tree's life is a co Stany struggle for survival - via cutting the roots and branches, it's only means of getting nutrition. The small leaves and branches are a sign of that struggle, not a thing a tree is designed to do.
@@jezackr3500 you do realize there’s hordes of animals nibbling on a normal plant’s leaves and roots anyways, right? Cutting the roots and branches isn’t really a major inconvenience for the plant, because if it was then wild plants wouldn’t be looking too great right now.
And to be honest, it’s kind of weird to debate the ethics of something that doesn’t even have any form of brain that we know of. Like could it be there? Yeah sure, is it? Not to any extent as far as we know.
exactly.
To turn that around: there's no way you could prove that it's NOT doing harm to the tree either. Trees don't have a central nervous system, so it's unlikely they feel pain in the same way animals (including humans) do, but we still don't know how they might experience things. For all we know, it might indeed be torture. We just don't know.
Trees are so insanely, intensely versatile and resistant. I’ve seen pictures of flat trees, basket trees, sideways trees, tree bridges, desert trees, trees growing out of other trees, trees precariously hanging off boulders like that picture of a cat on a partially collapsed tower. I adore trees because they dgaf, as long as they’re thriving. My favorite bonsai ever is the apple tree that made a full sized apple. It’s beautiful. I love that tree. It said “f*ck yeah, I’m gonna do the thing.”
I am glad more people are consciously thinking about plants and fungi as more than just biological machines. But they’re also an entirely different form of life to us. I once saw a documentary about snowball earth. The narrator started off by talking about sea sponges and squeezed the sponge through a strainer. I got upset. He then said it’s okay, they don’t feel pain because sea sponges are colonies of single cell organisms. They’ll regroup and be just fine. I thought it was hilarious that he did that, but also very insightful about how we humans, as a social species, empathize with others to survive. But how it’s also important to understand that not everything exists in the same way as us. One thing that seems torturous to us is entirely different to something else.
Cool video, thank you for sharing!
In my local park there is a tree growing out of a tree that grew out of another tree. They were all previously branches of the fallen trees all relatively young compared to some other trees in the park. Close enough to a stream that overflows regularly I guess?
I have accidentally done it to a rose bush because I wanted to keep it in one pot and indoor under artificial lighting. Once every year, I also trim the root so it doesn’t become root bound
The oldest recorded practice of growing trees in pots is actually in Egypt where herbalists grew medicinal trees in pots so they could have a variety on hand when needed rather than constantly going out in search of herbal medicines.
Wow, wow, wow. Thanks so very much for giving me an insight into the science of bonsai. I have been working with bonsai since the mid 1980s and I didn't have a clue about the science end. I hope that bonsai continues to grow as a hobby around the world and that we adults share this knowledge and delight with younger generations. Thanks again!
Thank you so much for your comment! Bonsai is such a wonderful art, something that can passed as a living heirloom. I hope it continues as well
When I hike, I always gravitate and find astonishing beauty in the trees growing we’re not supposed to. Like from a crack in a boulder. I’ll often pause and try to imagine the brutal existence of that tree. Imagine nights, days, storms, forcing your way thru something harder then you to always reach up and to the light. It’s brutally beautiful
i don't understand people who can type out complaints that "bonsai making is sadistic, cruel, and torturous" as they're sitting on their comfy wooden bedframe in a warm wooden house. like pick a struggle.
you're right in this instance, but don't forget that normally you are really really stupid.
It's the first video I've watched on your channel and I have something to say: your content has the same quality as the best science channels on youtube, it's perfect for inspiring curiosity about scientific topics. Carry on, you seem to have found something you're really good at
You don't know how much I appreciate that. It's my goal to make entertaining and educational videos for everyone. Thanks and take care!
Same
Those bonsai forests are so stunningly beautiful. It just shows the beauty of human art, and natural tenacity.
I had no idea the leaves shrank. I always thought that they just chose species that had small leaves. I had a juniper bonsai for 8 years. I was training it droop over the side of the pot so that the branches go lower than the bottom of the pot (which is sitting on a plant stand). It died when I was very sick for a few months the same year we had a severe drought. I wasn't getting outside enough to water it. I thought the person who was helping me take care of my pets was watering it when she came but we apparently had a miscommunication on that.
I started a little terrarium a few years ago in an empty candle jar that's still thriving today, and like with bonsai trees, the plants inside adapted to it by shrinking down. I took one leaf from a succulent plant for it, and the leaf was about the same size as my thumbnail. But today, each leaf on the plant is only 2-3 cm each
That's awesome!
You can actually find natural bonsia trees under certain rare harsh conditions. At first when I was younger like as a kid I thought it was cruel to the tree cause all I heard about it, is they cut the roots, but as long as it's well taken care of, that bonsia tree usually thrives more then the grass in peoples yards, or gold fish people keep and think the goldfish are ok in small bowls. Now that I'm older I realized it's not as awful as it sounded and that the trees could potentially grow bigger if put in the right circumstances., and it's just a tree your keeping as a semi house plant. Will I ever own one? No. Do I admire the art form, yes. the tree is just gonna tree.
Having a bonsai is literally a symbiosis - there's a far greater chance the tree would perish in the wild naturally, not even getting CLOSE to reaching maturity. A caring, mindful bonsai artist gives the tree a chance, does everything to make it thrive, protects from dangers of parasytes and herbivores, and in return the little tree pleases, amazes, inspires or even provide a kind of emotional support for people. It's no different to having a houseplant or a pet. Or planting or caring for a tree in a city.
and then it would be of use to thousands of other species, depending on where it died.
instead, it's a fancy little thing to sit on your shelf all gnarled and fucked up because teehee I put a golf ball in its trunk.
@@bunniesbunniesbunnie so would you...
hehe jk
Seriously, you should redirect your anger towards something more significant like the old, massive forests being cut down as you're reading this, whole ecosystems destroyed by human hands, most of the species going extinct, all the pollution going down in our soil, seas and up into the sky. Soon, it all will change the WHOLE world for worse. And here you are, going on a noble crusade for "ethics" about bonsai. Something as trivial as a few potted trees, plus likely of a very common species. If anything, you should at least appreciate that it educates and makes more people interested in nature and plants. It's not a one day hooliganism like "I'm just gonna put a ball in its trunk" (like where did you even got that from?), it takes years, dedication, perseverance and passion or love for one's work...
I agree ethics should be discussed, but you're clearly blind to our current priorities. Once we as a mankind deal with the irreversible crisis in clear sight, animal abuse and global warming we're causing, we can have discussion about the matter of growing potted trees in certain positions, shall we?
@@firesoullv maybe don't be cool with torture
@@bunniesbunniesbunnie I'm not, but nature is. You don't seem to understand that.
@@bunniesbunniesbunnie plants don't have pain receptors that is very obvious
thanks a lot, right now i'm writing a book about bonsais and your video really help me with it.
Greetings from Guatemala
wow! Amazing! Good luck on your book and thanks for subbing!
Your bonsai looks amazing! Im going bonsai since i am 10 too! Now im 24 and got a lot of them. Some died some are beautiful now! Its a very long term hobby. Im also glad someone said "its not for indoors" thats probably the reason 90% of the bonsai die.
My tip: buy or create at least 3 bonsai. The chance one will live for a long time is increased :)
Thanks a lot! I feel like I need a lot of work, but I'll definitely be getting more trees to work on. Thanks for the tips, cheers!
One thing that is also interesting about bonsias is that in Japan the way their cut, shape is symboilic. You get an upright branch growing towards heaven, a heaven princiiple branch and a diagnonal on that symbolises man and a branch that grows towards the earth, I suppose a reality inclined branch, for example.
Also, cutting them is slow, an a meditative process, a process that if done right helps the person get quieter. ward off a nervous break down, or some awfillly violent tendencies with any luck.
On being done quietly, the person uses less nervous tension and so is left with plenty of energy for other tasks, or even an increase of energy.
Sometimes this slowness ends up meaning that the person is much faster and more efficient at an activity, iin macial arts for example, but as far s i have seen cuttign bonsais is always a slow process.
This was a really well made video with some crispy production quality and smooth transitions while being entertaining and quite informative.
Thanks a lot!
For peopel that think using wire to bind parts of the tree is like foot binding, or torture, it's not. For one, foot binding required breaking the bones in the foot, usually in the middle or near the heel, then binding the foot into a folded over shape that has to be bound for the rest of the person's life to keep it that way. The foot needs to regurally be cleaned with treatment solutions and can become infected if not properly cared for.
Inversely, the bending of a tree branch into a configuration over time has no adverse effect on the tree.
The wires used in bonsai can be thought of more like guides that suggest the tree to move into a desired configuration. Trees are very good at taking different shapes over time naturally, and many of them do this in nature on their own (say a tree that is growing right beside a cliff wall), and once the tree has adapted to the suggested shape, it will stay that way on it's own unless some factor causes it to change shape again.
One such factor that can actually determine the formation of branches on a natural tree is the position of the sunlight. If you keep a houseplant on your counter or window sill, and you have ever turned it, you might have noticed it will naturally start growing in the direction of the light. With a tree that becomes shaded on one side, this can happen as well, it will start putting more effort into the side of itself that recieves more sunlight, it might just take longer to be noticable.
Wow, that was really good. Just a simple click after waking up added so much to my perspective. I never viewed plant or tree manipulation as torture by any measure, but I appreciated your outlook on it, whereas I'd just roll my eyes if someone said that. Thanks for hopefully being my new go-to!
Thanks for the awesome comment! I definitely wanted to show all perspectives of bonsai (or anything for that matter) to show diversity of thought, but then also add my opinion because I think my opinion is good 😂. Cheers man!
If those people are soooo concerned about bonsais, they'd have to get PTSD everytime a lawnmower starts.
@@chrisakaschulbus4903
It's funny... When humans eat plants and animals. If they cared, then they wouldn't exist... Hypocrisy, if anything.
Just bought my first bonsai tree geeked about it
Congrats!!!
I've been doing it for over 11 years and I love it!
I work in an orchard. When we replant a field we usually remove the saplings from the plastic pots they’re in, prune the roots and plant them each facing towards specific direction. Then we trim off the branches near the base of the tree trunk and place a paper cover box over them. After some time we’ll go back and drive a wooden stake about +6” away from the sapling. After some more time passes we will prune branches that aren’t “necessary” or that are damaged/dead. Then we’ll wrap the branches with either twine or some black and orange rope( don’t know what it’s called but it looks like plastic) and we repeat this process. We do this with almond trees btw in California
omg at the end of the video i was so surprised to hear you didn’t even have 1000 subscribers at the time of posting! this is such a well made video :)
keep doing what you're doing and you're going to blow up! Happy to see someone do what they love and create wonderful videos about their passions :)
I really appreciate that, thanks so much!
It just didnt make sense for a miniscule cells to become even smaller cell. I guess all the time I've spent in Biology class isnt wasted after all.
As Bonsai beginner, I also think that the wire is torturing the tree. But in reality, the wire are not meant to torture or strangle the tree. In fact wire marks are not ideal for bonsai.
Exactly, if done properly, the wire won’t girdle the tree in any way. Hello to my fellow biologist! Thanks for watching
@@TheBackpackingBiologist I've seen full sized trees that engulf iron railings, I never thought a bit of wire would trouble them too much. Trees are brilliant. Even the one at the bottom of my garden that has moved the top row of bricks on my wall.
I mean trees don't have pain receptors so it is a little hard to torture them.
@@bestaround3323 some people dont understand this, reading comments make me cringe lmao
The thing I learned from the video is that the artform of Bonsai is limitless. Just from the video, you can turn trees into natural art or add props for the bonsai to grow through like geometric shapes, bone, metal, whatever prop you'd like. Not to mention how intricate you could make the art using tools. It's really badass. I also think for those against bonsai, given the "trauma" of bonsai the tree would die long before becoming art. Considering the "trauma" of clipping and wire being used as a guidance tool. I just dont see a "negative" of bonsai.
I agree! To me, it just feels like more intimate gardening. Cheers!
I love seeing natural bonsai trees where I live. In a semi rare occasion on the rocky coastal shores there is a tiny pine growing on a tiny plot of soil right at the edge of the sea where heavy winds and lack of nutirents slow down it’s growth. There is no way for you to accurately judge it’s age. It’s trunk is burled and twisty but the tree is barely 5ft tall when an acerage full grown pine of it’s species is ~80-85ft.
Im currently growing 8 trees from seeds i got from store apples. So far they are coming along quite well for a first attempt. They haven’t reached a stage where they need to be trimmed or shaped yet but they are as of now quite strong. I am growing them while trying to spend as little money as possible such as making pots out of recycled materials. I only paid for apples and a mini watering can.
sounds like an adventure! Good luck!
Imagine people calling it torture when they step on grass every time they go outside
You cannot torture a plant, you can immorally kill a plant (If you kill it for no reason), but it cannot feel pain. These trees cannot think, it should be appreciated as a environmentally friendly artform. (it is)
True. But while they don't have nerves, they do send stress responses via electrical signals and respond to distress
@@mushmush4980 that’s mot sentience tho that’s electric signals firing.
@@mushmush4980 So do all living things, even single-celled organisms communicate both internally and with each other. The notion that every lifeform is precious is silly, considering how brutal nature is towards itself and how you kill thousands upon thousands of organisms every time you e.g. wash anything (hands, dishes, laundry, floor, car...)
@@mikehunt3420 who said anything about sentience
And why do you guys think I'm disagreeing with the guy or trying to make a point, I'm just saying that they do feel electrical and chemical distress to a small degree
@@KILLD0ZER Where did you get all that from when I just mentioned that they have some basic form of signalling
I have a degree in biology but I needed a refresher and you did a great job! I’m starting a bonsai tree.
“Trees never ask for a lighter burden. Only broader shoulders.” This was touching.
I like your scientific approach to the principles of bonsai.
Thank you!
People will, in all seriousness, talk about torture when it comes to plants and continue to eat animals, it's baffling!
Thank you for this super interesting video, just found you and I'm subscribing! Keep up the great work :)
I wouldn't go as far as to say bonsai is torture, but limiting the potential of growth of a living thing purely for aesthetic purposes seems a bit cruel to me personally. The only time I tend to trim plants/bushes/trees is when they're growing out of control to the point where it would be detrimental to their own health or survivability.
As for animals, I eat them because they taste good and because I don't have to kill them/butcher them myself. If I had to raise an animal with the end goal of killing and butchering it, I don't think I'd actually be able to because I love most animals. I think there's a lot of cruelty involved in the process of raising animals solely for human consumption, but at the same time most of those animals wouldn't exist if they weren't there to be eaten by us. This applies to plants too, with the main difference being the apparent lack of consciousness that plants display.
I think a more appropriate example would be vegetables. People shouldn't talk about plant torture then proceed to eat a carrot or onion
@@shneershiishonest You make a good point! I don't think I would want to raise bonsai either because it just doesn't feel right to me.
Regardless, animals are a whole different topic and if you're interested in reducing suffering I highly recommend that you check out awesome channels like Earthling Ed's. Ultimately, by paying for meat and animal products, one creates a demand. By not consuming these products, the average person can save about 100 sentient animals per year. Additionally, you can decrease your environmental footprint by going vegan more than you could by any other measure.
Sorry for the long comment haha. Earthling Ed and others say it way better than I can, I really hope you check him out because you seem genuinely interested in being kind :)
Have a good one!
@@johnwhite1534 Yeah, from what we know there's no such thing as plant torture. I'm just amazed at how people wouldn't want to risk a plant feeling inconvenienced but have no issues hurting beings with the same capacity for suffering as us. That, to me, is the ultimate example for cognitive dissonance.
“Trees never ask for a lighter burden, only broader shoulders.” Is a baller ass quote to live by.
Bonsai is an interest I had many months ago. I wanted to do a miniature rose bush from a cutting and give it away to a woman I liked after budding for the first time. Sadly, it got eaten by an animal.
My thoughts on the subject, though: It's an art form that requires time, dedication and learning. It harmonizes Mankind's will to create with Nature's will to survive.
That animal must have had a sore mouth afterwards 😆
@@Ilyb.444 It was in its early stages of growing. I was cloning it from a cutting. I was also taking off the thorns as it was growing.
Yooo amazing video! Cracking down on those misconceptions all the while making a very well shot and narrated documentary! Great job dude!
Thanks man! You have a wonderful channel yourself.
@@TheBackpackingBiologist 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤❤❤
If your ever in Seattle, hit me up!
@@PNWBonsai for sure!
Honestly shocked me when you said you were almost at 1k subscribers at the end of the video. This is top tier content dude, up there with smarteveryday and those other big science channels
Ay! Thanks so much. I've been flying under the radar for a bit, hopefully my time to blow up is around the corner. Cheers mate!
We sort of do this to certain tropical house plants so we can keep them trailing in hanging baskets over growing up poles and getting too big. The only main difference is the type of plant and how/conditions they're grown.
Also depending on speices they certainly can indeed be grown indoors. I'm currently growing 3 varieties of lilly pilly as bonsai and if they were outside atm they'd die of frost bite through the roots at night!
So for bonsai trees, he said to grow them outside, do you still do that in winter? Do you only keep bonsai out in winter if the tree normally deals with it anyway and keep tropical bonsai inside over winter?
People usually choose bonsai that are compatible with the climate they live in. That way you can leave them outdoors all year round. (Though you might have to bring them inside on an especially cold winter night)
@@icewink7100 thank you
great story telling voice! amazing content. love the editting. dude keep it like this and you will someday have like 10 million subscribers! this is one of those channels. dont give up!
Dude, thank you so much! I really hope so. Cheers 🙌🏾
So I guess bonsai aren't all that different from naturally-occuring "Krummolz", the kind of trees you get when stuff like pine or juniper grow in poor soil near or above the tree line, with strong winds and little water. Not quite as manicured, of course, but the overall conditions are similar. I wonder if that's where the original inventors of Bonsai got the inspiration to begin with.
That’s exactly where they got the inspiration! Great observation
There are many many styles of bonsai and some of these styles (in particular literati style) are extremely representative of those trees. Bonsai is supposed to mimic natural form. Many also show form of broad leaf trees in less extreme style. Its a fantastic hobby
Some bonsai artists actually just collect the tree's straight from the wild where they have been growing in a krumholtz form. If you search yamadori you'll see some beautiful examples.
Bought a little fig bonsai at home depot around 20 years ago. He still sits healthily and proudly on my chair side table in the family room, sprouting beautiful miniature, white Flowers every Spring and late Summer.
Imagine describing anything related to gardening as torture for the plants. Is pulling weeds itty bitty genocide? Is taking fruit from a tree a form of cultural appropriation? One can make an argument for animals, but plants? Humans can be so weird in the first world
We all better never walk on grass again😄
They're being dramatic for the title, so people will click on it.
Well it's an interesting philosophical viewpoint. All these distinctions between animal man and plant does not really exist.
@@geirtwo They do when we're talking about taxonomy. At least for the distinction between plant and animal.
there are more things humans can do that are more important than an art form just to bend a tree and make it look pretty, or to have some broad statement behind it, the art form are the words "time" and "patience" in disguise.
all plants have the ability to adapt, and will grow healthy in that soil once they have adapted, or if they're damaged, they'll come back. you cannot physically torture a plant like most people think you can. infact, most trees are abnormally shaped BECAUSE of nature herself, damaged by it, and even killed just by their own species because plants somewhat follow natural selection.
you can get the same outcome by simply having patience, and not forcing anything in this world to do something, that includes us, plants, bugs, and animals.
endofconvolol
This was a really interesting and well made video, was shocked to see your subscriber count, keep up the good work man!
Thank you! I’m just starting out :) 💪🏾
Good video, I've been looking for scientific videos on bonsai and found this. I'm trying to understand WHY you should do bonsai techniques rather than just doing it because it's what others do.
Thanks from the UK
Thanks man, I’m all about the science 🔬
I’m a bit confused by your question. Can you please elaborate? Are you referring to the specific techniques in bonsai rather than just going Willy Nilly?
Sorry I think I just worded my comment awkwardly. I just appreciate the scientific approach. Thanks
@@MrCliveado haha no problem man. Thanks again
Just found this channel by pure chance - what a gem of a find.
Thank you! 🙏🏾
Really well informed video! As someone who owns a few bonsais I am really happy to see such a well documented video on this hobby. The mention of it's culture of origins is also something that I believe to be of importance to the topic.
There is indeed a lot of controversial topics about bonsais, such as torture. It isn't a far fetch, plants do have a level of conciousness, they acknowledge their enviroments and react accordingly to their surroundings. Their sentience is important for evolution, acknowledging shifts in climate, temperature and seasons is a key to further survival. However, I do think that, if done right, growing bonsais is an incredibly delicate procedure, it can certainly be claustrophobic to the plant, but in the end "product", it is no far from a regular tree, it just adapted to a smaller size. However, if you are to grow a fruit bearing bonsai, do try to grow one that does not cause too much weight on the tree, as it may damage the branches and hurt it in the process.
I was personally a bit shocked to think about the theory of the cells being smaller. It never crossed my mind, I always thought that reducing cell size would impossibilitate the growth of the plants.
Anyways, for anyone who got an interest in bonsais due to the video, I always recommend adenium obesum (desert roses) for newbies! Although they are not really trees, but succulents, they can be turned into a bonsai, and out in the wild, they can grow up to 6 feet tall. And turning them into bonsai really is no harm at all! Given it's origins conditions, desert roses are used to being restricted in size (yes, there are natural bonsais out there), it is apart of their evolution trait, and they are quite pretty when they bloom.
people talking about “torturing a plant” while they eat bacon and eggs…
While I don't see bonsai as crippling a tree, I do think the over-use of wire as on your tree and others in this video shows a slight difference in the bonsai I learned when I started the hobby. The point is partially to mimic nature and not just make a tree into what you want. There is an art to choosing a tree which would make a good bonsai based on its structure before pruning and then making the tree look "natural" like one would see in the woods, on a cliff, etc. What this means is you try to find a small tree that already has this aesthetic so that you have to do the least amount of pruning and wiring as possible. The reason you want to do the least amount of wiring is because you are trying to connect with nature (and nature isn't always a Disney movie or painting), but also because the wiring can definitely damage the tree since the limbs and trunk will expand and eventually the wire may become imbedded into the tree (which is bad for the tree - which I assume you know if you're a botanist). So if you choose to wire? You will have to monitor and rewire before the cuts start or risk damaging the limbs . But I was taught that Bonsai is more trying to make the tree into a smaller version of what it would be when grown (based on current structure or its native region) rather than what we want it to be with wiring. Not every bonsai should need to look like it is on some windswept cliff to be appreciated.
The only thing I would add that I learned when started bonsai is that the small pot is also key to the small plant - it's not just pruning. It limits the root size and supposedly the smaller roots keep the plant small as well. I guess it can't take in as many nutrients through the soil? I'm more into it for the artistic and nature appreciation aspects as you can likely tell. That said, most hobbyists only put them in the small decorative pot when selling or showing - they otherwise keeping them in larger pots and just prune the roots each year.
Calm down its just a tree
@@zizg62 oh no,how dare someone share more information
Out come is everything, you are talking rubbish!
@@davewilco822 you're attacking a point they didn't make
@@DarkEcho32 yep your right! I posted in the wrong thread
I've barely even thought about bonsai trees at any point in my life I don't know why this is so captivating to me
Well thanks for watching the video and I'm glad you liked it and hopefully learned something! Cheers
Enjoyed the video! I'm just starting my adventure into bonsai with 5 species in cold stratification as we speak!! Can't wait. Gonna take a few cuttings of Colorado blue spruce tomorrow as well! I like the concept for your channel so I''d be happy to support your work by subbing! Good video editing as well!
Sounds exciting! I'd love to see pics when you're all done with shaping. My email is thebackpackingbiologist@gmail.com if you'd like to show me. Thanks for subbing and for the kind words
I don't want to discourage you, Tee Dee, and you'll probably prove me wrong, but it is very hard to get cuttings of spruce to take root. Try Japanese maples or willows - much easier.
@@maryannhinden2719 I'm using an aeroponics system to improve the odds also found a method of splitting the base of the branch to improve rooting odds. I will let you know it if works out!
Fantastic video! Really loved the presentation and tempo of everything. Keep up the amazing work!
Aye! Peter, thanks man!
I believe bonsai is the art of a balance with nature, almost the consciousness of the tree and yourself bond, and come to an agreement of art and nature. Plants can pick up on positive and negative energy. And if everyone who sees it gets a smile and appreciates nature a bit more with that positive energy, they feel that. I currently have 15 bonsai with a collective age of about 120 years.
Extreme high-quality UA-cam right here. No idea how you don't have millions of subscribers.
Love the video! Maybe you can make other plant based videos! Would love to learn more about my acacia palm and your videos are always so well done!
Thank you! I definitely will be making more plant vids :)
Don't all plants react to their environment, changing shape depending on conditions and location? Like you were saying, their shape tells their story of their experiences. It is true that every tree has the potential to grow into something greater, but every time, what they become is altered by their environment. I don't see this as sad at all, dont we all go through the same ourselves? Do we mourn what we could've been; the shape we could've taken as people if our environment were different? We don't, because that's what makes every person, every plant and animal unique and gives meaning to our experiences. Bonsai trees are at the mercy of their surroundings, and the shape they take is highly dependant on the one who shapes it. Can't the same be said for everything?
oh, it's awesome video! thanks!
Thank you!
I kinda new this since I always get smaller leaves in my indoor plants because I always forget to fertilize them~~
If the art if bonsai is torture, I'm a murderer for the amount of weed i burn on a daily basis 😂 Sounds like half of you need some weed in your life.
People saying this artform is hurting the trees, and that the wires are torturing them.. as if they don’t dress up trees during christmas.
"More work than a goldfish" Uh yeah no. Most people have no clue how to take care of goldfish and kill them in less than 5 years. those little guys are meant to live 10-15 years. If you don't own a small pond you probably shouldn't have goldfish as pets. you are dooming them to suffering.
I bought my first bonsai 🌲 tree kit today and I’m very exited is fascinating to think you can make miniature copies of big trees, also I’m using it as therapy to relieve my anxiety
Congrats! I hope it brings you peace and joy 🙏🏾
Man, I'm really dissapointed. People get mad over bending trees and planting them in small pot but perfectly fine with eating parts/entirety of plants. Plants felt pains is such a pseudo science, they will grow as long as the condition suit them, whether they're in small pot or big forest.
Ikr
Vegans really be crying about the pain the tree endured not like they ate hundreds of peas for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
They're milking the almond trees too, that probably hurts or tickles.
I'm so confused that people could think smaller leaves are made of smaller cells.. cell size is highly dependent on function, you can't just change cell sizes in most cases. It would only make sense if they're genetically distinct.
I think the philosophical question of “are we hurting these trees” can wait until after the Amazon rainforest is safe.