Vacheron Constantin, Longines, and Jaeger LeCoultre Are Offering Vintage Watches. Who's Next!?
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- Опубліковано 3 лют 2023
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website: www.omegaenthusiastltd.com
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Apparently, high-end luxury watch authorized dealers are joining the vintage watch market, with Jaeger Lecoultre becoming the most recent to join and now offering vintage timepieces on their site. As you can see, the sales of vintage watches will be worth double corresponding to the modern new watch market in a few short years. Knowing this estimation, I am sure more watch companies with a long history will find ways to grab a piece of the pie.
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I am very concerned about this aspect, first it will create another bubble in prices, but I am more concerned about the fact that these brands personnel (acquisitions and sales) have no expertise in their vintage product. This will bring a nice brand sticker on what could result in a lemon.
I would not trust them on vintage products and would prefer the knowledge and expertise of independent watch-makers/lovers like you. Unfortunately, that's not the thought of the majority, and I am concerned that them entering the business will affect you...
Great comment! Unfortunately, it costs a lot to hire a full-time vintage watch specialist who does this as a passion and enjoyment. A watchmaker's job is to service the watch and get it to run accurately. So, they will need the assistance of a vintage watch expert to assist them with what not to do when restoring a watch. And hiring a vintage watch expert can help the company (AD) select and purchase some of the best examples out there.
They're going to mistreat these old watches to oblivion in order to sell them to people who just cashed their first bonus working for some bank. Question is if they'll be able to compete on a market of enthusiasts. Look at WatchFinder and what they pay for watches coming in vs what they price them at going out. That's the margin an AD or brand will have to have, and it's not very attractive. This is them having to diversify in the face of a much less lucrative market.
@@quattordicimontenapoleone3113 The margin of a watch, in my opinion, is calculated by the overall condition of the watch, what has been done to the watch, and the rarity of this particular example. No vintage watch aged the same, so you can't really set a fixed price for every piece with the same reference. The dial variation alone can significantly affect a vintage timepiece's value. Remember that dial refinish can affect the value between 50-90%, and case polish can affect between 10-50%, depending on the job done. When flipping a watch in "as is" condition, they cannot charge the same amount as a dealer that had his/her watches adequately serviced. Replacing the case gasket or crystal or touching here and there to the movement are not considered as recently serviced. On top of all that, will the watch come with any sort of warranty? For example, I provide a one-year warranty for my watches, and when that expires, it will ONLY cost my customer $100 plus shipping each time they return it for a regular maintenance service. This will give them peace of mind and not to worry about expensive future services.
@@TimelessHistoryChannel This is however an argument that is moot to an uninformed buyer. E.g. the prices of Somlo in Burlington Arcade. 3-4 times higher than the same watch at auction. Any operation with significant overhead like a chain of ADs will have targets for margins to be sustainable, and they will be a lot higher than a 1-2 person operation. Prices will be driven by that, not by condition or anything else.
@@quattordicimontenapoleone3113 Yeah, well, buying from the AD, the buyer will need to understand that half of the value goes toward paying for the AD's overhead and literally for the "AD" name. haha
It's like when someone sends their watches to the AD for restoration rather than letting a genuine master watchmaker restore them locally.
What would be nice is if manufacturers could offer reissues of their most popular watch buckles. Omega, for example could offer this for their most popular models (constellation, seamaster, etc)
I think at this moment, don't put your hope too high. If a buckle costs a few hundred dollars, then maybe Omega my consider producing them.
@@TimelessHistoryChannel if Omega can charge $500 for a watch band, they can charge a couple hundred for a buckle.😅
@@ja5777 haha, fair enough.
Well, the prices listed are pretty eye-opening. I just did a very quick/dirty check on a couple of Jaeger LeCoultre models. Not saying this research is in any way exhaustive, but the AD price for a roughly equivalent Memovox is 85% more on the JLC store than on eBay. Sure the risk is lower, but the difference is £16,000! Another is £6k on eBay vs. £16k on the JLC website. (Over 60% more.) Not bad for selling the same thing twice over. One of the great things about vintage is the hunt and the value proposition. These examples kinda kill that.
I did not compare the prices (for VC or JLC) with those available on eBay, so I cannot say how correct the ones on eBay are either. But I did compare the Longines prices with some of the ones I sold in the past, and I was pretty shocked with some of the prices. It makes my watches feel like wholesale prices. haha
I think the manufactures themselves have created the boom in vintage watch interest. Regardless of the technology present in new watches, a significant amount of customers are turned off by the accompanying thickness increase, me included. I prefer to fly under the radar and have a low profile, lighter weight, less ostentatious time piece for daily wear.
Social media such as Instagram is one of the main catalyst for the booming vintage watch market.
I agree (if I understood you correctly!) that ADs selling vintage watches are in general a good thing. For me, desire is what drives the market for luxury watches, whether new, used or vintage, and I think the big brands are the world's best at generating that. So if I were a vintage watch dealer I'd want them pitching for me, and at the prices they're charging (and the package they offer) I don't think I'd see them as stealing my business. ;) . Thanks as always!
They are definitely not stealing any vintage watch dealer's business. That's the thing about the vintage watch market. Collectors will buy accordingly to who they trust or have dealt with for a long time. Every vintage watch is unique to its own. But as you said, it's good that the big brands are doing it. It's like a free promotion for a vintage watch dealer.
I fear this sort of thing will only drive up prices faster, squeezing me out of the market sooner.
I think we will be fine. Unless every AD starts to offer vintage timepieces, then maybe that will affect another price hike. But, of course, I can assure you that there will always be affordable vintage watches.
I think Omega and IWC are good candidates for this sort of programme. Indeed, the listed prices for these pieces from the brands are quite crazy
Oh yeah, IWC would definitely do well. Movado can too, but my concern is their vintage models will embarrass their modern stuff. haha
Wouldn't they really be after the big margin three brands?
Totally understand stand why they are considering this, ppl will trust them and like you said can charge more. My preference find a trusted watchmaker/seller that you can build a friendship with and help you in your journey of collecting.
I have had my eye's on that LeCoultre for a very long time, lv the case shape and lugs.....
Oh that is absolutely correct! Buying directly from the AD you will not receive the same long term relationship like you do with an independent watch dealer. Good point!
Zenith is doing it too , but only with their “iconic” models
Nice! I need to check that out.
Thank you for the video. Just a question about the Omega watch shown at the end, the crown wasn't signed. Is this normal for vintage Omega's? If yes, what time period and models?
Thank you for the comment. It is common for an Omega crown to unsigned during the 1940s and earlier. Only a handful of 1950s Omega may come with unsigned crown. Depending on the reference it is possible that some may come with a signed crown while others might not.
Probably with insane prices...
You can see some of the prices in the video. :-)
Anyone able to link the first watch he is showing? I can't find it ;p thanks
Hey Derrick! I live in Toronto...any chance I can come in to look at the collection and pick up something? Do u have a retail location?
I'm also looking to bring in my dad's Omega for repair and surprise him :)
Hi there, Unfortunately, I only deal directly online and only service the watches purchased on my site.
Do you know anything about french movement watches?
I am not familiar with the French movement. But I am familiar with Swiss watches made for the French market.
Do you think the watch manufacturers should come up with a standardized way of evaluating and reporting the vintage watches they are selling? I mean one set of standards for all manufacturers, across-the-board. Curious what you have to say…
I'm not too sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate a bit more? :-)
I mean, I think they can do a much better job. With the amount of money they have, they should hire someone who is actually a watch expert to help them purchase top-notch examples to offer on their site. When the condition of a watch is tip-top, there will be a buyer for it regardless of the price. At this moment, take Longines, for example; whoever is taking care of this department just posted the watch without providing more images, including the movement and case back. And whoever the watchmaker is appeared to restore the entire watch himself. I have no issue with a case polish, but the AD should hire a professional case polisher to polish the case to the original specification and not just round the edges and corners.
@@TimelessHistoryChannel I gave it more thought, and I think there should be a standard form when a watch is re-sold, kind of like an inspection report when you rent a car or how the condition of old coins is rated. Checkmarks for new replaced parts or old parts that show wear, a rating system for case, crystal, dial, hands, etc. that tells you the condition. Maybe also a description of any visible wear, marks or damage on the watch... Also make everyone responsible for posting hi-res images of the watch currently, including inside the case if practical. Then the trick would be to get all watchmakers to agree to use this standard format so you can compare apples to apples. If this 'report' was available for all vintage watch purchases through manufacturers then consumers would be more protected. It might not make everyone honest, but at least it would level the playing field. :)
@@WatchWithMike The issue is the watchmakers working for the AD are not watch specialists. It's hard to find someone who can do both. It would cost the AD too much money to hire someone like this.
@@TimelessHistoryChannel I hear you. If the people who ARE knowledgeable started using a more standardized system of grading watches, then the people LESS knowledgeable will learn how!
@@WatchWithMike many knowledgeable people are not dealers. They are collectors. I only know a few knowledgeable dealers, and they are very busy themselves. I created this channel for a reason, but many people already think they know enough (but clearly, they do not) and don't bother to watch what I have to share.
Those brands are trying to manipulate vintage watch price.
Probably not. Watch collectors are pretty smart.
@@TimelessHistoryChannel but the brands' marketing people may not
I'll pass on brands selling their vintage pieces. It'll just drive prices up. Nevermind the assurance, let collectors learn to do proper research and learn from their mistakes. If you have the money for one of these watches, then you likely have the time to learn more about it before buying.
You are absolutely right. Self knowledge is vital.
High end watches are not in my price range
It will one day! Stay positive! My first vintage watch cost $40. Was Mido Mulitfort from the 1950s.