Totally agree that the drop serve is the answer. It would solve all the illegal serve questions. I find drop serves easy to generate spin, power, and accuracy. However, people need understand the rules for drop serves don't include the same requirements as volley serves. I've been called out for "illegal" drop serves by high level players who just don't know the rules.
I’ve been told twice that I had an illegal serve after a rec play game, both times I had no idea and was glad they told me. I would say if it’s the other team, tell them after the game. If it’s your own teammate, tell them after you see them do it a few times once you notice it’s a trend. At the end of the day, most people don’t even know they are doing an illegal serve and would be grateful to know, before they develop bad habits or start using illegal serves in more competitive play/ tournaments.
I saw a person inform someone else that their serve was illegal. The only problem was they didn’t actually know the rules. The serve in question was a drop serve and was dropped at head height. The person in the wrong informed this server that they could only drop from the waist. I argued briefly that the serve was legal, but I was disappointed that someone was “messing” with someone else and they didn’t actually know the rules.
Just go to the drop serve and at least it is the same for everybody. Creative people will figure out how to make it an advantage. There is no other rule they can create for serving that is enforceable. Just make it simple for everybody.
Totally agree with everything you said on the tournament costs. Amateurs need to get their monies worth with the fees. Lack of courts, access to food/beverages and restrooms has to improve.
Will howell's serve at MLP this weekend was so illegal, Zane was literally throwing the ball way up in the air and then contacting ball by his hip. Someone in comments said MLP has different rules in regards to serve. My question is why?? I have been playing way before any of these current pro's, never has this been such a huge issue. The problem is $$$. There needs to be uniformity throughout the sport and the drop serve may be the only way it could possibly happen. As far as tournaments, i stopped playing them. As a senior, we are treated like the cash cows the PPA and APP needs to feed the pro's all the money they can. I urge amateurs to stop participating in these tournaments. Play local tournaments and stop giving the pro's and owners your hard earned money. They don't care about you. Sad, it never used to be this way.
@@Wayneman50 Why is the issue money? This is a pet peeve of mine. People love to hate on money, but eliminate money as an easy target and you usually get closer to the actual problem and solution.
@@Wayneman50Okay, I see now what you are saying. I’d still say that the two groups would just as likely not agree on this if there was no money involved. To me, MLP is going to be afraid until they either innovate a better format or become a non issue because they aren’t drawing fans or pros. Seems to me they designed their format such that it makes owners of teams money when there’s really no sports reason for teams to be a thing, just business reasons. They need to realize they will never be the NFL and look more at Formula 1 where the teams aren’t quite as important to average observers who can cheer for a driver without thinking about the team aspects.
I think most people want to improve so would welcome you pointing out an issue. I like the idea of saying "if you want to play in a tournament, your serve would likely be called illegal". A illegal serve is more of an issue with me because its usually intentional where as people step in the kitchen often by accident during the excitment of play. In our rec play its more usual for the player or their partner to call "in the kitchen. No one ever calls illegal serves or foot faults on serving when we are playing. No one checks them.
As for tournament prices, I used to do a lot of running in road races and it got so I have seen what charging too much can do to a sport. Short answer less and less people want to participate resulting in races being cancelled because not enough runners.
I’m a pretty free market guy. If people are willing to pay, it’s okay. What I don’t like is when the hidden or less obvious costs get out of hand. Or, when someone is abusing some sort of monopoly. If it’s transparent, and people know what they are getting, then sometimes the price is just a way to keep the crowd down.
Do either of you have a favorite MLP team? I went to the MLP NYC and the energy was amazing, but I think a lot of people have trouble "picking" a team, do you think this is a common issue with team pickleball fans?
I'm not sure players like Dekel Bar are serving illegally. There are a lot of claims that aren't verified. It is difficult to impossibel to tell with the human eye. You need a pic at contact. I get accused occasionally - by about 5-6 people over a year or two, but every pic at contact shows my serve is legal. Some of the calls of illegal serves by the ref may be wrong. I'd be careful telling someone their serve is illegal, if it is not obvious and they are a beginner, unless you have a pic at contact to prove it.
I think the PPA's need to "de-weponizing" the serve for pros is really the least of the problems. People already see this sport as elderly, unathletic and slow...actively working to make it even more dumbed down doesn't help. Pros will adjust to serves... let it go.
For simplicity's sake, go to a drop serve only rule. As long as the ball is dropped neutrally and bounces first, anything goes. 1. No more worrying about how to enforce subjective unenforceable rules. 2. More flexibility on how one can hit the ball and potentially new styles of serve that would emerge. 3. We can do away with every other rule about serving and streamline the rulebook. IMO, there are already too many serve rules.
In rec play, I am always calling foot faults, mostly on myself. Sometimes someone will want to know how it was a fault, then I explain how the fault occurred.
I think MLP does it the best way. The belly button/ waist thing is a garbage rule. Make it so you have to have "about a 45 degree" motion from low to high that way you don't have the will howells problem. Question: do you think a players height should matter if they keep the at or below the waist rule? Would you really need to call a fault on a player that is 5'4" hit slightly above their waist compared to someone like Dekel who is well over 6 foot hitting slightly above the waist? They already have almost a foot more angle to work with with even a legal serve as it is. If you think someones serve is illegal in rec play you just ask them to re serve, let them know what they did wrong hope they correct it adequately, there is no reason to side out someone for an illegal serve in rec play. It is also in the USAP rules that there is no recourse for an opponent to fault a player for an illegal serve, only a referee can do that.
Totally agree that the drop serve is the answer. It would solve all the illegal serve questions. I find drop serves easy to generate spin, power, and accuracy. However, people need understand the rules for drop serves don't include the same requirements as volley serves. I've been called out for "illegal" drop serves by high level players who just don't know the rules.
I’ve been told twice that I had an illegal serve after a rec play game, both times I had no idea and was glad they told me. I would say if it’s the other team, tell them after the game. If it’s your own teammate, tell them after you see them do it a few times once you notice it’s a trend. At the end of the day, most people don’t even know they are doing an illegal serve and would be grateful to know, before they develop bad habits or start using illegal serves in more competitive play/ tournaments.
I saw a person inform someone else that their serve was illegal. The only problem was they didn’t actually know the rules. The serve in question was a drop serve and was dropped at head height. The person in the wrong informed this server that they could only drop from the waist. I argued briefly that the serve was legal, but I was disappointed that someone was “messing” with someone else and they didn’t actually know the rules.
Just go to the drop serve and at least it is the same for everybody. Creative people will figure out how to make it an advantage. There is no other rule they can create for serving that is enforceable. Just make it simple for everybody.
Totally agree with everything you said on the tournament costs. Amateurs need to get their monies worth with the fees. Lack of courts, access to food/beverages and restrooms has to improve.
Will howell's serve at MLP this weekend was so illegal, Zane was literally throwing the ball way up in the air and then contacting ball by his hip. Someone in comments said MLP has different rules in regards to serve. My question is why?? I have been playing way before any of these current pro's, never has this been such a huge issue. The problem is $$$. There needs to be uniformity throughout the sport and the drop serve may be the only way it could possibly happen. As far as tournaments, i stopped playing them. As a senior, we are treated like the cash cows the PPA and APP needs to feed the pro's all the money they can. I urge amateurs to stop participating in these tournaments. Play local tournaments and stop giving the pro's and owners your hard earned money. They don't care about you. Sad, it never used to be this way.
@@Wayneman50 Why is the issue money? This is a pet peeve of mine. People love to hate on money, but eliminate money as an easy target and you usually get closer to the actual problem and solution.
@@nunyabidness3075 Why couldn’t MLP and PPA get along. Money!! Unfortunately, it has a lot to do with it. Ask the players.
@@Wayneman50Okay, I see now what you are saying. I’d still say that the two groups would just as likely not agree on this if there was no money involved.
To me, MLP is going to be afraid until they either innovate a better format or become a non issue because they aren’t drawing fans or pros. Seems to me they designed their format such that it makes owners of teams money when there’s really no sports reason for teams to be a thing, just business reasons.
They need to realize they will never be the NFL and look more at Formula 1 where the teams aren’t quite as important to average observers who can cheer for a driver without thinking about the team aspects.
I think most people want to improve so would welcome you pointing out an issue. I like the idea of saying "if you want to play in a tournament, your serve would likely be called illegal". A illegal serve is more of an issue with me because its usually intentional where as people step in the kitchen often by accident during the excitment of play. In our rec play its more usual for the player or their partner to call "in the kitchen. No one ever calls illegal serves or foot faults on serving when we are playing. No one checks them.
As for tournament prices, I used to do a lot of running in road races and it got so I have seen what charging too much can do to a sport. Short answer less and less people want to participate resulting in races being cancelled because not enough runners.
I’m a pretty free market guy. If people are willing to pay, it’s okay. What I don’t like is when the hidden or less obvious costs get out of hand. Or, when someone is abusing some sort of monopoly. If it’s transparent, and people know what they are getting, then sometimes the price is just a way to keep the crowd down.
Do either of you have a favorite MLP team? I went to the MLP NYC and the energy was amazing, but I think a lot of people have trouble "picking" a team, do you think this is a common issue with team pickleball fans?
I'm not sure players like Dekel Bar are serving illegally. There are a lot of claims that aren't verified. It is difficult to impossibel to tell with the human eye. You need a pic at contact. I get accused occasionally - by about 5-6 people over a year or two, but every pic at contact shows my serve is legal. Some of the calls of illegal serves by the ref may be wrong. I'd be careful telling someone their serve is illegal, if it is not obvious and they are a beginner, unless you have a pic at contact to prove it.
Once I called my husband stepping in the kitchen and he was pretty upset with me and said it was up to the other team to call the fault 😅
I think the PPA's need to "de-weponizing" the serve for pros is really the least of the problems. People already see this sport as elderly, unathletic and slow...actively working to make it even more dumbed down doesn't help. Pros will adjust to serves... let it go.
For simplicity's sake, go to a drop serve only rule. As long as the ball is dropped neutrally and bounces first, anything goes.
1. No more worrying about how to enforce subjective unenforceable rules.
2. More flexibility on how one can hit the ball and potentially new styles of serve that would emerge.
3. We can do away with every other rule about serving and streamline the rulebook. IMO, there are already too many serve rules.
In rec play, I am always calling foot faults, mostly on myself. Sometimes someone will want to know how it was a fault, then I explain how the fault occurred.
I think MLP does it the best way. The belly button/ waist thing is a garbage rule. Make it so you have to have "about a 45 degree" motion from low to high that way you don't have the will howells problem.
Question: do you think a players height should matter if they keep the at or below the waist rule? Would you really need to call a fault on a player that is 5'4" hit slightly above their waist compared to someone like Dekel who is well over 6 foot hitting slightly above the waist? They already have almost a foot more angle to work with with even a legal serve as it is.
If you think someones serve is illegal in rec play you just ask them to re serve, let them know what they did wrong hope they correct it adequately, there is no reason to side out someone for an illegal serve in rec play. It is also in the USAP rules that there is no recourse for an opponent to fault a player for an illegal serve, only a referee can do that.
On a questionable service, video the server. Politely show the Player after the game.
Pictures don't lie ! 😮
$50