Enjoyed the video! I've been manufacturing the Sails you mentioned for the past 10 years. So it's kinda cool seeing the other uses for the materials I make daily.
Funny, I'm a hiker who's getting into sailing now, and it all comes full circle back to Dyneema haha... From what I've gathered in my research, Dyneema started out in the sailing world as line material. Running rigging is typically a Dyneema core, and many vessels now use Dyneema for the standing rigging in place of stainless steel cable, since it is 15X stronger than steel, and 84% lighter...
I have a contribution to the hiker/camper community. Instead of using zip lock plastic bags to pour hot water into to rehydrated your meals, use a Doritos bags. The bag is made of mylar, it's sealed, doesn't warp or flex with heat and doesn't leach out harmful chemicals. Cheetos, Smart Popcorn, etc, any snack bag that has mylar interior coating.
So a little clarification- Dyneema and Cuben Fiber aren't the same thing (technically). Cuben has a small amount of dyneema strands that have been laminated with a coating. But Dyneema can be woven to make a fabric made entirely out of the dyneema/spectra (same exact product just two different companies that make it). So the reason Cuben or ripstop fabrics can't be ripped is because you hit those white dyneema strands (they have tear strength far beyond what a human could rip). Imagine the dyneema as the stands of a spider web with a saran wrap over it.
I don't want to think how much a sail made of cuben would cost - especially when the material was newly invented. But I guess if your racing yachts, that's probably not your biggest expense...
You are backwards on the dyneema x fabric. The main material is nylom and the white grid is non stretch dyneema/Spectra material which elimates stretch and stops rips.
Yeah ,great vid man, thanks for sharing,I haven't heard of it,I don't see alot of people when I go camping,and in Alaska,I don't even know it they have the stuff,thanks for the info
This history and explanation of Dyneema is well done. It flows, your delivery is pleasant and clear and you’ve layered on a lot of useful facts I’d not seen elsewhere. Kudos. Now for your question; is it worth the money? My first bit of advice is that if you want to cut your pack weight, get on a scale with a fat meter built in. If you’re a man and you’re over 16% go spend the money on whatever it takes to get leaner, perhaps stronger two. Both of those personal attributes go with you in everything, and are especially useful in the backcountry. Twelve percent fat is a good goal. You might not need Dyneema at that body composition. That’s my sensible big picture response... I have just gotten into Dyneema gear and man am I impressed. Seriously, a 1/2 lb 8X10 tarp? Loaded with guy outs and built in line locks? A pack conforming zippered mostly waterproof sack that I can stuff my down bag into? These things are awesome innovations. I’ve evaluated a few of the tents. Not being a fan of single wall, no bug screen, no floor due to conditions in New England and elsewhere, a lot of gear gets eliminated right away. Then comes the pitching... With two exceptions I know of, all the Dyneema tents are trekking pole setups. The few I’ve purchased, evaluated and returned were all twitchy to set up and absolutely not what I want to setup in horrible weather. Each required very precise stake placement to achieve tension, tricky trekking pole setup and adjustment, and the need for fine tuning the staking and roping after all was set up in order to achieve a quality pitch. I’m waiting for Dyneema tents in poled configurations, self standing, tent suspended from fly, such as the Kuiu and Hilleberg tents. When I look at my Kuiu 4 season tent at 6lb and imagine that in Dyneema, stronger and with larger vestibules and weighing half as much, well, that’s as close as I get to extatic about a tent. Sooner or later one of the ultralight cottage manufacturers will accept that poles do add weight and its worthwhile weight to carry, or one of the established tent manufacturers will release improved tents based on existing designs. The Copper Carbon is a poor first try at that. Way too much emphasis on weight, not enough on strength, and it perpetuate the old fly over poles design; an invitation to have a soaked inner tent if making an attempt to pitch in rain. Bottom line, I’ve got my physical goals in order and I’m enthused and ready to invest in new gear made of Dyneema if it will cut my pack weight by 1/3rd or 1/2.
Very interesting video! Thank you for sharing! We haven’t branched our into the Cuban fiber world yet but it is on my list for future gear considerations for sure.
IMO as the material (dyneema) becomes more widely used in the industry the price should drop. In the fishing industry as Fireline (which is dyneema) became more popular the price fell. It's cheaper now than it was in the 90's when I started using it.
Funny story... when I first started using my Duplex, I was packing it up in it's cuben fiber stuff sack... I then put the stakes in it's cuben fiber stuff sack and shoved it in with the tent... I then heard a terrible sound... the tent stuff sack split and there was a tear!!! I s#%t my pants! Zpacks was kind enough to send me another but I always questioned the durability of CF... since then I have had no issues and swear by CF!!! I figured it was either a bad batch or a weak spot in manufacturing... which can also happen with silnylon!!!! Thanks for the info!!!!
Very well researched & presented. Nice job. Dyneema will continue to develop, but I’m also expecting X-Pac materials to expand in usage. From what I’ve seen, they’re much tougher.
I haven't made the plunge into Cuben gear yet. I'd like a CF/DCF tarp, but at this point I'll stick with my SilPoly. Maybe if I do a long trail thru at some point...
It'a expensive because it's actually made from the skin and hair of Cuban refugees. That's why Zpacks is located in Florida. They changed the name to DCF to make it socially acceptable.
To my knowledge it's Dyneema that has been coated with polyurethane also with ripstop that is woven in to the fabric. So basically a slightly bulkier, much more durable Dyneema.
I almost asked to upgrade duplex to a 1.43 blue floor. Would have looked cool, but has proven unessasary as the 1.0 has endured without ground sheet use
Ones backpack should supposedly not weigh more than 20% of ones body weight. I weigh around 57kg (125lbs), so i should not carry more than 11,4kg/25,1lbs. Even with my 610g Zpacks Duplex tent (its the "Spruce Green" "heavy duty" version) and a 750g down sleeping bag, my (3 season) baseweight is still almost 7,8kg/17,2lbs (7kg if i dont bring any extra clothes, except a 550g jacket for the evenings, and a 390g rain poncho). If want to carry food for several days on top of this, it quickly adds up to my "limit". Of course i could push myself to carry more, but then i cant walk as far as if i had more lightweight gear - and it also ruins the fun..!
It would be nice to give us an idea of what the price is ruffly. The bag with the rip stops in it for example $40.00 ? $75.00 $140.00 , $200.00 $500.00 ? ????
I'm of the opinion that you should "stuff" everything. Inclusing sleeping pads. If you just stuffed that 10 year Old cuben bag you showed I would bet money on it not having seams. I'm guessing you always fold it
Yeah, not totally sure if he was the first, but Joe Valesko, the Zpacks owner, talks about how he decided to start using cuben in this video. He clearly didn't get the idea from anyone else, but maybe somebody somewhere was doing it earlier. Who knows... If the link starts you at the beginning (it shouldn't), jump to 4:41. ua-cam.com/video/DQKwyto0Yt0/v-deo.htmlm41s
Whilst presenting a UA-cam *video* (emphasis on the word “video”), try to avoid phrases such as _“feel how much heavier this is…”._ jajajajajaj * bonk *
You get a thumbs down for your distracting cat, and I didn't bother more after 3:30. You want people to take you seriously, learn that it's a 2 way street
Rather than say " I would find your content more interesting with a little less cat" you just felt compelled to toss out a negative remark. Work on those diplomatic skills Mark Mark.
Chacun à son goût. The cat was fine by me, but the crackling of the fabric, starting at c. 5:12, was very distracting, at some points almost drowning out the narration.
Enjoyed the video! I've been manufacturing the Sails you mentioned for the past 10 years. So it's kinda cool seeing the other uses for the materials I make daily.
Funny, I'm a hiker who's getting into sailing now, and it all comes full circle back to Dyneema haha...
From what I've gathered in my research, Dyneema started out in the sailing world as line material. Running rigging is typically a Dyneema core, and many vessels now use Dyneema for the standing rigging in place of stainless steel cable, since it is 15X stronger than steel, and 84% lighter...
I have a contribution to the hiker/camper community. Instead of using zip lock plastic bags to pour hot water into to rehydrated your meals, use a Doritos bags. The bag is made of mylar, it's sealed, doesn't warp or flex with heat and doesn't leach out harmful chemicals. Cheetos, Smart Popcorn, etc, any snack bag that has mylar interior coating.
You just blew my mind. Added bonus of this is you also get to eat doritos
Eat the doritos at home, then save the bag. I eat oatmeal and dehydrated food in it.
Why re package meals in first place.
Ohoooo
Thank you for having your Kitty in this video...I talk my Kitty on my trips...backpacking and bikepacking
Role Model!
So a little clarification- Dyneema and Cuben Fiber aren't the same thing (technically). Cuben has a small amount of dyneema strands that have been laminated with a coating. But Dyneema can be woven to make a fabric made entirely out of the dyneema/spectra (same exact product just two different companies that make it). So the reason Cuben or ripstop fabrics can't be ripped is because you hit those white dyneema strands (they have tear strength far beyond what a human could rip). Imagine the dyneema as the stands of a spider web with a saran wrap over it.
I don't want to think how much a sail made of cuben would cost - especially when the material was newly invented. But I guess if your racing yachts, that's probably not your biggest expense...
You are backwards on the dyneema x fabric. The main material is nylom and the white grid is non stretch dyneema/Spectra material which elimates stretch and stops rips.
Yeah ,great vid man, thanks for sharing,I haven't heard of it,I don't see alot of people when I go camping,and in Alaska,I don't even know it they have the stuff,thanks for the info
This history and explanation of Dyneema is well done. It flows, your delivery is pleasant and clear and you’ve layered on a lot of useful facts I’d not seen elsewhere. Kudos. Now for your question; is it worth the money? My first bit of advice is that if you want to cut your pack weight, get on a scale with a fat meter built in. If you’re a man and you’re over 16% go spend the money on whatever it takes to get leaner, perhaps stronger two. Both of those personal attributes go with you in everything, and are especially useful in the backcountry. Twelve percent fat is a good goal. You might not need Dyneema at that body composition. That’s my sensible big picture response...
I have just gotten into Dyneema gear and man am I impressed. Seriously, a 1/2 lb 8X10 tarp? Loaded with guy outs and built in line locks? A pack conforming zippered mostly waterproof sack that I can stuff my down bag into? These things are awesome innovations. I’ve evaluated a few of the tents. Not being a fan of single wall, no bug screen, no floor due to conditions in New England and elsewhere, a lot of gear gets eliminated right away. Then comes the pitching... With two exceptions I know of, all the Dyneema tents are trekking pole setups. The few I’ve purchased, evaluated and returned were all twitchy to set up and absolutely not what I want to setup in horrible weather. Each required very precise stake placement to achieve tension, tricky trekking pole setup and adjustment, and the need for fine tuning the staking and roping after all was set up in order to achieve a quality pitch.
I’m waiting for Dyneema tents in poled configurations, self standing, tent suspended from fly, such as the Kuiu and Hilleberg tents. When I look at my Kuiu 4 season tent at 6lb and imagine that in Dyneema, stronger and with larger vestibules and weighing half as much, well, that’s as close as I get to extatic about a tent. Sooner or later one of the ultralight cottage manufacturers will accept that poles do add weight and its worthwhile weight to carry, or one of the established tent manufacturers will release improved tents based on existing designs. The Copper Carbon is a poor first try at that. Way too much emphasis on weight, not enough on strength, and it perpetuate the old fly over poles design; an invitation to have a soaked inner tent if making an attempt to pitch in rain.
Bottom line, I’ve got my physical goals in order and I’m enthused and ready to invest in new gear made of Dyneema if it will cut my pack weight by 1/3rd or 1/2.
Liked just for the cat. Great info in your vid too.
Great job with the history lesson and fiber comparisons! Love my Cuben Fiber tarp and my Arc Haul!
Thank you for having your kitty in your video's...
Very interesting video! Thank you for sharing! We haven’t branched our into the Cuban fiber world yet but it is on my list for future gear considerations for sure.
IMO as the material (dyneema) becomes more widely used in the industry the price should drop. In the fishing industry as Fireline (which is dyneema) became more popular the price fell. It's cheaper now than it was in the 90's when I started using it.
I really like the background you provided. The material has had a interesting history so far. Great job.
Funny story... when I first started using my Duplex, I was packing it up in it's cuben fiber stuff sack... I then put the stakes in it's cuben fiber stuff sack and shoved it in with the tent... I then heard a terrible sound... the tent stuff sack split and there was a tear!!! I s#%t my pants! Zpacks was kind enough to send me another but I always questioned the durability of CF... since then I have had no issues and swear by CF!!! I figured it was either a bad batch or a weak spot in manufacturing... which can also happen with silnylon!!!! Thanks for the info!!!!
The stuff sack is sooo thin material it wouldn't take much to tear it...
Love your cats. And, your advice, of course!
Thats a monster sized cat, really helpful video, thanks
Awww. I love the cat!!
All my Dyneema gear has been very durable!
Duplex is worth every penny
Very well researched & presented. Nice job. Dyneema will continue to develop, but I’m also expecting X-Pac materials to expand in usage. From what I’ve seen, they’re much tougher.
It's all super heavy molecular polyester isn't it or Something like that? It's magic to me. Hang my hammock from the tiny little things lol
Run, RUN...there’s a jaguar in your living room!! 🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆
Sounds LOUD! I'm just getting into backpacking and it seems way loud for being in the quiet forest.
I haven't made the plunge into Cuben gear yet. I'd like a CF/DCF tarp, but at this point I'll stick with my SilPoly. Maybe if I do a long trail thru at some point...
Please can you post a gear list ul Backpacking...
Thanks!
It'a expensive because it's actually made from the skin and hair of Cuban refugees. That's why Zpacks is located in Florida. They changed the name to DCF to make it socially acceptable.
omg your cat give it to meeeeee
Hi from Holland, I'm curious of what exact material the Arc Haul grid top is..
To my knowledge it's Dyneema that has been coated with polyurethane also with ripstop that is woven in to the fabric. So basically a slightly bulkier, much more durable Dyneema.
The fabric is actually a 210D HDPE Gridstop that contains no Dyneema©at all. HDPE stands for High Density Polyethylene - which is likely only the white part of the grid-stop.@@SchillBrothersOutdoors
I almost asked to upgrade duplex to a 1.43 blue floor. Would have looked cool, but has proven unessasary as the 1.0 has endured without ground sheet use
Ones backpack should supposedly not weigh more than 20% of ones body weight. I weigh around 57kg (125lbs), so i should not carry more than 11,4kg/25,1lbs. Even with my 610g Zpacks Duplex tent (its the "Spruce Green" "heavy duty" version) and a 750g down sleeping bag, my (3 season) baseweight is still almost 7,8kg/17,2lbs (7kg if i dont bring any extra clothes, except a 550g jacket for the evenings, and a 390g rain poncho). If want to carry food for several days on top of this, it quickly adds up to my "limit". Of course i could push myself to carry more, but then i cant walk as far as if i had more lightweight gear - and it also ruins the fun..!
Yeah thanks to you, Shug, Sintax77 and Frozen I have a tarp, dry bag, food bag. Yep and the next thing will be the pack. My wallet is upset at me.
Mark Cuben called. He wants his undershorts back.
Does your cat ever attack your sleeping bags?
FYI - Do Not machine wash! I ruined a good dry sack this way . . . Hand washing only
what a cat :D Question - whats bombproof?
Guys I suggest you watch this video on 1.25x speed
5:10, you finally get to see some of the stuff the film is supposed to be about.
It would be nice to give us an idea of what the price is ruffly. The bag with the rip stops in it for example $40.00 ? $75.00 $140.00 , $200.00 $500.00 ? ????
I'm of the opinion that you should "stuff" everything. Inclusing sleeping pads. If you just stuffed that 10 year Old cuben bag you showed I would bet money on it not having seams. I'm guessing you always fold it
I thought Zpacks was the first to use Cuben. Maybe I'm wrong. #Zpacks
Yeah, not totally sure if he was the first, but Joe Valesko, the Zpacks owner, talks about how he decided to start using cuben in this video. He clearly didn't get the idea from anyone else, but maybe somebody somewhere was doing it earlier. Who knows... If the link starts you at the beginning (it shouldn't), jump to 4:41. ua-cam.com/video/DQKwyto0Yt0/v-deo.htmlm41s
Roland Woods does not sound all that German to me.lol
Good vid though.
All an inventor needs to do is figure out how to make the stuff much quieter or hell, just a little quieter and he will create a new industry
I believe it was Joe of Zpacks.com was the first...
Wow, had no idea. Cool! Love my altaplex!
The music in the background is distracting, annoying. Just sayin.
I'm disappointed that it seems to just be another kind of plastic. As if there wasn't enough plastics already in backpacking gear and clothing.
It is so noisy, it crinkles with any wind and rain on it is deafening. I don’t like it because of the noise.
Whilst presenting a UA-cam *video* (emphasis on the word “video”), try to avoid phrases such as _“feel how much heavier this is…”._ jajajajajaj * bonk *
You gotta get rid of the cat man.
Cat is the best part
You get a thumbs down for your distracting cat, and I didn't bother more after 3:30. You want people to take you seriously, learn that it's a 2 way street
Rather than say " I would find your content more interesting with a little less cat" you just felt compelled to toss out a negative remark. Work on those diplomatic skills Mark Mark.
Ok, I won't tell you to fuck off then. you're right, I'm feeling better already.
Chacun à son goût. The cat was fine by me, but the crackling of the fabric, starting at c. 5:12, was very distracting, at some points almost drowning out the narration.
No way. The cat was a great addition to the video. It in no way made him out to be someone we can’t take seriously.